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I hope you act today and EXPOSE! You have been given a gift with them being out of town.
Please don't let this opportunity go by, so few of us got things set up like this.

I tend to agree with the folks that say expose to the work now. Be sure to include senior executives and HR executives.

Find the OMW today, and exchange info.

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Originally Posted by unwritten
Originally Posted by Rusty
Here's the current situation. WS and the OM (her boss) are at a conference overseas (and no doubt getting it on). She comes back tomorrow night. I want to expose this to her family and friends.

Did you read the Exposure 101 thread? Since they are coming back tonight, where are you at with exposure?

I did read the thread (and reading the book now). While I realize that them being out of town was a good opportunity, I may hold off on exposure for a few more days, to gather more solid evidence. I know she will deny everything, especially to her family and I need to have solid proof. I am having a PI tail them from the airport tonight (the OM is conveniently giving her a ride home) and I will likely put a recorder in play to see if I can get her on calls with him over the weekend. My lawyer is trying to get details from OMW's lawyer and PI and thinks if I expose now, I blow all our covers and the A goes deep underground.

So I think I can play along (though it may be too difficult, we'll see) and act as if nothing is up to gather firm evidence. The book suggests that this is okay. Plus, this may allow a coordinated exposure with the OMW. But who knows, I may do it sooner if I can't contain myself.

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Originally Posted by NebDane
I tend to agree with the folks that say expose to the work now. Be sure to include senior executives and HR executives.

My concern with this is that if she loses her job and can't find another one, I will be on the hook for spousal support.

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Originally Posted by Rusty
Originally Posted by NebDane
I tend to agree with the folks that say expose to the work now. Be sure to include senior executives and HR executives.

My concern with this is that if she loses her job and can't find another one, I will be on the hook for spousal support.

You are more likely to end up divorced if she doesn't leave the job, though. If you get her out of there, you are less likely to ever be discussing "spousal support." I agree there is no reason you can't give her 30 days to gracefully leave but what if she doesn't find a job in that time? Then you will be essentially making a decision to choose the affair over the marriage.

Protecting her job might feel good in the short term, but it is not a smart strategic move. It hurts your position no matter what because you will end up divorced if she doesn't leave and if you decide to divorce, you will be battling against a fogged out wayward who is entrenched in an affair. You lose either way.

So strategically, protecting the affair for the supposed benefits of the job only harms your position. Better for her to be an out of work spouse.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by Rusty
[So I think I can play along (though it may be too difficult, we'll see) and act as if nothing is up to gather firm evidence. The book suggests that this is okay. Plus, this may allow a coordinated exposure with the OMW. But who knows, I may do it sooner if I can't contain myself.

Dr Harley also is very specific that the affair be exposed right away, so I wouldn't wait too long. You have intel that the OMW HAS some evidence, so I am puzzled why you won't contact her and get it?

A joint exposure might be effective if it is done right.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Rusty
Originally Posted by NebDane
I tend to agree with the folks that say expose to the work now. Be sure to include senior executives and HR executives.

My concern with this is that if she loses her job and can't find another one, I will be on the hook for spousal support.

You are more likely to end up divorced if she doesn't leave the job, though. If you get her out of there, you are less likely to ever be discussing "spousal support." I agree there is no reason you can't give her 30 days to gracefully leave but what if she doesn't find a job in that time? Then you will be essentially making a decision to choose the affair over the marriage.

Protecting her job might feel good in the short term, but it is not a smart strategic move. It hurts your position no matter what because you will end up divorced if she doesn't leave and if you decide to divorce, you will be battling against a fogged out wayward who is entrenched in an affair. You lose either way.

So strategically, protecting the affair for the supposed benefits of the job only harms your position. Better for her to be an out of work spouse.

No, don't get me wrong, either she or the OM -- or more likely both -- are leaving their jobs. All I'm talking about is a 30 day grace period.

Make no mistake, the fog, which she is definitely in, will end!! Even if we end up divorcing, which is most likely, it will be post-fog. If she wants to make a conscious decision to be with OM, she will need to do it in the open, with her family and friends knowing about the A.

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Originally Posted by Rusty
[No, don't get me wrong, either she or the OM -- or more likely both -- are leaving their jobs. All I'm talking about is a 30 day grace period..

Gotcha! We have had betrayed spouses sit by and watch the complete destruction of their marriages while protecting an affair over a "job." The WS ends up leaving for the affair partner and then the BS is fighting over the income with the affair partner! Not to mention the lawyers fees. Not strategically smart at all!


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Its your perfect right to chose to divorce your wife over the circumstances of an affair. Its understandable you want to protect yourself and your children from more trauma in the future. And your pause to nuclear expose the affair maybe more to do with your ready decision to divorce your wife anyway. You have a perfect right to do so.

Not to give you false hope but couples do survive affairs and improve their marriages here. Your decision to stand for your marriage for the two of you and your children ---for a period of time--- could have serious lasting positive affect for your children the rest of their lives.

Its just something to consider.

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Originally Posted by graceful2b
And your pause to nuclear expose the affair maybe more to do with your ready decision to divorce your wife anyway. You have a perfect right to do so.

graceful, the only legitimate reason to delay an exposure would be to gather necessary evidence. The decision to divorce does not change that. And the longer he waits, the less effective it will be.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Thanks ML. OK. What is "necessary?" I'm just asking because often evidence is not so black and white as in a photo, a direct visual of affairees entangled together, an audiotape of damning words and so on.

More often the waywards are showing signs of covering their tracks and withholding affection, acting different, lying, gaslighting and so on. The betrayed come here and delay their action steps when they already know. They allow the waywards more and more latitude to continue and become more and more entrenched. Make a mockery of the marriage and betrayed.

It seems better to begin some action to gather potential contact lists of whom to expose w/contact info. in parallel to seeking evidence in order to maintain a fast pace. I guess its hard to see the sense of urgency is not heeded and opportunity is missed.


BW 58
WH 61
married 35 years
2 adult children
2 grandchildren

"Love anything and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one...It will not be broken, it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable...The only place outside of Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from dangers and perturbations of love is Hell" c.s. lewis
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graceful: I would like to know your story. I am 59, and my WH is 60. We also have 2 adult children and one grand child.

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This is Rusty's thread.

Please stick to helping Rusty with his situation and take your unrelated questions to your own thread.

Thank you.


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A quick update: My PI followed them from the airport to our neighborhood. They pulled over a few blocks away for 3-4 minutes and then he dropped her on the corner of our block. My PI was unable to get close to the car during the 3-4 minutes they were stopped. Of course, she initially said that he dropped her in front of the house and tried to gaslight me for saying I didn't see headlights, but later changed her story, admitting that he dropped her at the corner (what the PI texted me). I am hoping she'll reach out to him tomorrow and some of my other surveillance devices will pick up something.

What's interesting is that there was another car circling my house � I think the OM's wife had the same idea about tailing them as I did. Unfortunately, I don't think he got much this time either.

I'm going to try to reach out to the OMW sometime soon to see what she knows.

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Originally Posted by Rusty
I'm going to try to reach out to the OMW sometime soon to see what she knows.

I'm really confused about why you are dragging your feet on this.

From my understanding OMW had confirming evidence of the A from her PI and you haven't even personally spoken to her to ask for it yet, instead hiring your own PI to do the exact same thing.

Now you are going to contact her 'sometime soon.' Why not NOW? You could have the evidence in your hand and exposure done already, why are you dragging your feet on this step?

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Originally Posted by unwritten
Originally Posted by Rusty
I'm going to try to reach out to the OMW sometime soon to see what she knows.

I'm really confused about why you are dragging your feet on this.

From my understanding OMW had confirming evidence of the A from her PI and you haven't even personally spoken to her to ask for it yet, instead hiring your own PI to do the exact same thing.

Now you are going to contact her 'sometime soon.' Why not NOW? You could have the evidence in your hand and exposure done already, why are you dragging your feet on this step?

This.

Take off your attorney hat and be a soldier. You are in a combat zone, not the court room. Please don't take offense at this. I can tell that you are a very smart man and that you take careful, measured, and wise steps in important matters. But in this combat zone, you are in a battle that requires timely decisions. In your case, I would not wait out the 30 days. I'd get the two separated as soon as possible because it sends the very important message that your marriage is more important to her than her job and career.

Put on your combat boots, friend.

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Thank you all for talking sense to me. I appreciate the advice, sometimes I do tend to over think things.

Right now, I'm still gathering more evidence. Found a bunch of stuff after her trip, including a receipt for almost $1000 of lingerie, which she denied, a note from the OM's daughters about how they love spending time with WW, and a few other small things. I think she's getting suspicious because I couldn't help but ask her about some of the things (lingerie) and she accused me of being controlling and obsessive (I guess I am controlling in the sense that I want to stop her from having the affair). I also may have some physical evidence, that I've taken and hid. I need to figure out whether to send it away for a test (would probably need a sample of his DNA from OM from his wife).

I am going to talk to the OM's wife tomorrow. I will drive out tomorrow afternoon, when I know the my wife and her boss will be at some event (worst case, if I see his car in the driveway, I can always abort).

I know that timing is crucial and I appreciate your advice Justthe3ofUs. I've been trained not to act until I have all the facts, and right now the two big unknowns are what the OMW knows and what she plans to do. Regardless, I plan to pull the trigger on family and friends exposure this week, I don't think I can stand it any longer.

Trust me, the waiting is excruciating, particularly because she keeps feeding the the same BS about how things just fell apart and I shouldn't look for a scapegoat. So I am highly, highly motivated to expose. And I haven't ruled out exposing to the workplace before 30 days. I'm just trying to come up with a plan of attack that's least susceptible to counterattack. The OMW and I need to do a coordinated pincer movement. I will talk to her tomorrow and regroup!

Thank you all for the advice.. keep it coming. This is foreign territory for me, so the more eyes and ears I have on this, the better.

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Originally Posted by Rusty
I also may have some physical evidence, that I've taken and hid. I need to figure out whether to send it away for a test (would probably need a sample of his DNA from OM from his wife).

You don't need a sample of his DNA to find out if there is semen on her panties. You can order a semen detection kit here: here

Quote
I am going to talk to the OM's wife tomorrow. I will drive out tomorrow afternoon, when I know the my wife and her boss will be at some event (worst case, if I see his car in the driveway, I can always abort).

Are you also having the PI follow them?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Rusty, if you haven't spoken to the OMW, then how do you know she has evidence of the affair?

If she has evidence then something is very wrong given that they still work together and even go on trips together. If she has evidence, then why wouldn't she contact you? How do you explain that?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Rusty
I also may have some physical evidence, that I've taken and hid. I need to figure out whether to send it away for a test (would probably need a sample of his DNA from OM from his wife).

You don't need a sample of his DNA to find out if there is semen on her panties. You can order a semen detection kit here: here

Quote
I am going to talk to the OM's wife tomorrow. I will drive out tomorrow afternoon, when I know the my wife and her boss will be at some event (worst case, if I see his car in the driveway, I can always abort).

Are you also having the PI follow them?

Yes, just ordered the kit.

I am going to try to have the PI follow them, if they have the manpower available. I think the wife has a PI on them too, at least she did when they got back from the airport. I have a tracker in the car as well, in case she goes off somewhere afterward.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Rusty, if you haven't spoken to the OMW, then how do you know she has evidence of the affair?

If she has evidence then something is very wrong given that they still work together and even go on trips together. If she has evidence, then why wouldn't she contact you? How do you explain that?

Her lawyer has evidence of the affair. Apparently it's a shared hotel room and enough to convince people that something was going on (showing both opportunity and inclination). However, she only got this evidence on this trip, I believe. I don't think she knew before (and their last trip together was 5 months ago, when neither of us suspected anything). If I knew before the trip, I don't think I would have waited � but of course, I didn't have solid evidence before then, just some texts, and my wife would have explained those away to her parents and friends.

I am meeting with my lawyer (who works at the same firm as OMW's lawyer) Tuesday and I am hoping that they will show me the evidence then. Even if they don't, I will still expose, I have enough at this point.

I don't know why she hasn't contacted me yet, but like I said, she just got evidence on this European trip (she was a day or two faster than I was) and I think her lawyers told her that I reached out to them. But I don't know what her motives are, so i can't be sure. I think she's going for a divorce if she has a lawyer and a team of PIs trail them, but I hope to find out for sure tomorrow.

All good questions, this is a complicated situation, but it will all come to a head in a few days!! I just hope the exposure starts to dispel the fog, b/c my wife is so think into it, it's hard to believe!

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