You have come to a forum on marriage building techniques developed by Dr. HARLEY for advice. That is what gives forum posters the right to speak frankly with you.
Disrespectful judgements in marriage are a love buster but on a forum where you ask for advice they are not.

Well my ex wife made similar statements about me being "incapable" of showing love.
I personally hated being belittled by her.
Unless he has a diagnosed mental disorder he probably is capable of being a good husband. But making statements that he isnt will not help you.

If I am judged "dishonest" by living_well I would like to be shown the evidence that I have indeed been dishonest before I will accept this judgment.

I will admit that I have lost respect for my husband because of the reasons I provided.

I'm traveling but will give you a response tomorrow, I'm not avoiding you!

I am open to advice but not unfair judgment. I have suffered from an abusive relationship with my controlling husband who has made decisions for my life, who has dismissed my feelings, who neglected me, who expects me to be the Giver in the marriage, and who changes and shifts the facts on the ground so he is never in error and I am never right.

I would like to leave and live again. I am at the point where I expect fairness, not judgment, because I have lost a lot in this marriage, and I fear very much for my and my children's future.

I understand there might be no solution except separation, which is why I posted under this heading.

Do I want to save the marriage? I do, but not at any cost, i.e., I need a very changed man, someone who will at least talk to me and agree to negotiate and share decision-making and if it is not possible, then yes, I do wish to divorce, because I simply can't go on living this way, I feel as if I am a slave to my husband's dictates, someone who cannot have her views, needs and feelings considered. Someone who has to consent to making decisions which she know to be wrong because her husband insisted, and who has to shoulder all the consequences of his decisions.

Please don't tell me I have to learn to communicate with my husband, because he simply would NOT communicate.

I have been frantically doing all the reading, the researching, to see how I can do it better, etc., and in the end, I still get nowhere.

I am no longer willing to continue this way.

I simply cannot give anymore than I have given, and I have started to resent my husband, whom I have come to regard as my tormentor, whether he meant to be, he simply *is*.

Perhaps another woman can accept this personality, a submissive one probably would.

Unfortunately, I am not one who willingly gives up my life or my children's lives for my husband.

Are you going to separate? What is your plan?

Have you emailed Dr. Harley?

I do wish to separate, but I will lose any influence over my children's lives if I leave.

This is my predicament.

I did email, but have received no reply.

Tbh, I don't know why I am posting on here...what do I expect from posting on here? Am I expecting sympathy? In the end, as my friends have told me, I can only change myself, I can't change my husband.

I had a good talk with a friend yesterday, she told me "Meekness is strength." I am trying that, but I am not good at "taking it on the chin", so to speak, when my husband unleashes his tirades.

When did you email Dr. Harley? Try emailing again and notify the MODS so they can let Dr. Harley know.

Thank you, I might do that. Meanwhile, is it better for me to delete this thread in case my husband consents to come here?

I think I don't need to save the marriage, but I would like a POJA about my children's future.

Gave2Much, I just reread your thread from the beginning and I recommend you do the same. You were given some terrific advice by Mel and Jedi right at the outset. Why did you not follow it? You posted again and again about how bleak your situation is even though nobody here needed convincing but you have never taken any of the suggestions about how to make your situation better.

Please know that many of us have been in the deep despair you feel right now. Many, but not all, have been able to save their marriages. Indeed some marriages should not be saved.

So to your question. Here goes :-)

Marriage Builders is all about respect and putting your marriage above everything else. You tell us that you can communicate with everyone except your husband. Can you see the problem here? It is essential that you be able to communicate with your husband. Marriages that are not based on MB principles degrade over time. The deterioration is usually slow as bad habits form. I have a hard time believing that you and your husband did not communicate when you were dating. Women do not fall in love with people they cannot communicate with. What usually happens is that communication dries up when it becomes unsafe meaning that one or both spouses starts to be disrespectful.

Then the disrespected spouse dries up. He or she becomes less and less communicative until all that is left is what is essential for life.

You have been called out many times on the disrespectful way you refer to your husband on your thread starting with its title.

So your husband has dried up meaning that he refuses any communication with you.

Dr Harley says that if you cannot bring your spouse on board with MB, you go into plan B after a short plan A. You spend a couple of weeks eliminating all your bad behaviors and being the best wife you can be. At the end of that time you look your husband in the eye and say that you want a romantic marriage based on love and respect and ask if he is willing to give this a try.

For some spouses this may be enough to give it a try. Some will pretend to give it a try, it does not take long to see the difference and some will still not come on board. For that group, Dr Harley recommends plan B where you separate and go completely dark. The idea is to give your spouse a taste of what it will be like for him if you divorce him whilst protecting what is left of your feelings for him.

If your spouse only married you for the right to live and work in USA, he will be perfectly happy to go into plan B and it will be very helpful for you to know this.

But essential to plan B is that you make it clear to your spouse what you are doing and that he knows that the door is open for recovery if he so decides. You own your part in getting into the bad place you are in and you make it clear to him that there is a path to recovery if both are willing and that you are prepared to do your part.

You did not do this. You left both your husband AND CHILDREN telling them that you were taking an assignment in another city. You never told him that you were leaving him because his behavior was making you miserable. You never gave him a path to recovery. Your dishonesty was one of omission (which I said in an earlier posting to you). You claim to us that you have left your husband because of his behavior but have told him and your children that you have relocated for work.

You tell us that you are going for a legal separation/divorce but you have not told him of your plan, let alone told him why.

Your dishonesty is called plan C around here. It does not work.

Sorry I forgot my computer cable and can only log in through iPhone sporadically . I understand where you are coming from. My situation has been going on for 13 years now, I was in Plan A some of the time when we went for marriage Counseling and courses, but they didn't seem to work.

It might be difficult to believe but in fact my husband and I didn't talk a lot from the beginning about personal matters and feelings. We talked a lot about the topics of our work, about society, etc. after the chilled arrived, we talked about raising them. He gets extremely agitated and needs to flee as if it is very painful to talk about "us", the two of us in this marriage, no matter how I tried to get him to talk. He avoids spending any time alone with me, he is on his iPhone and computer all the time, not only playing games. However, he is unlikely on porn sites as he really doesn't show any sexual interest in me or other women. I have asked him gently and nicely if he is gay on many occasions, I would support him to come out if he were gay, but he said no.

I offered many times to spend alone time together, he simply doesn't want to. My situation is very much like Sue L is the other thread about divorce consideration.

I know he has a difficult childhood, his parents are divorced and his mom neglects him at home when he was young. He had to take care of her when she came home late after dating or parties. This is why I wonder if he doesn't understand that he is doing the same to me?

So Plan A was on and off in our marriage. Our interaction became increasingly negative as I have tried every method I can think of to approach my husband. I tried to share my research, my books, MB with him to no avail.

This is my effort to save the marriage. In work, kids, finances, decisions, we are very different in our thinking and often clash. He gets his way most if the time, especially where it comes to finances and work. I resent it very much because it means I have to shoulder the burden and suffer the consequences of the poor outcome without any say.

He is a very caring person to others, eg when an acquaintance he knows is depressed over academic pressures, he spent a lot if time with him and his parents to help him. He is this type of Good Samaritan, yet when I am depressed, he couldn't show any care or interest, just told me to "Take a pill for ...sakes!". He talks to me in a way that he will never to others.

I had a long talk with my friends who also know him. We all thought he loves me because he wanted me to stay in the marriage, I am the one who wants to leave. However, I have started asking if it's "love" or a box he had ticked "married". Have we both confused his "need" for "love"? Does he need me in order to have someone at home he can neglect, he can rekindle the misery of his childhood family?


I have communicated many times, via emails and SMS that I will leave, if things do not improve. He just said "Go! If you want to just go!"

I am in Plan B but it's with a very weary attitude and heart because I cannot imagine that H will change into a man who would fulfil his marriage vows, after so many futile years. As he acted caring towards others, I assumed he would be caring towards me. He could articulate what was wrong with his parents marriage but he couldn't see he is acting the same towards me.

Just getting to agreeing on the facts is a big struggle with my husband. I am too tired to try anymore as it has been a very very painful marriage. It was a mistake for two people who are so different to get into this union. I do wish to reach a POJA about raising the kids, but I can for see it might not be possible based on past interaction with H. He simply opposes every idea or suggestion and proposes something opposite to my approach. Like I said, I can only leave, I can only decide for myself.

This is not hard for me to believe, because I have experienced it. You feel constantly disillusioned and it is difficult to explain to someone who hasn't been in your shoes. My take is...

1. You husband doesn't understand that marriage is a
"relationship of extraordinary care" as Dr. Harley would say. (And this includes EMOTIONAL care as well.)

2. Once you are married, you both become each others' problem. That is why you can talk and connect enough to get married, but then after marriage, your combined conflict resolution skills were lacking. You also bear the brunt of each others' actions. Your husband avoids conflict, struggles with perspective taking and cannot emotionally tolerate when you have a problem or when you disagree. But he is not incapable. He CAN learn. (Along with goes that maybe your way of complaining needs some work.)

3. He probably is not gay. But he doesn't know how to safely let you meet his need for Sexual Fulfillment. Some considerations are porn addiction, masturbation, anxiety, low testosterone.

4. See next post.

I started this program with similar thinking to yours. There were years worth of unresolved issues and my nerves were fried. It is not easy, but I believe that it is possible to change things when you change the rules of engagement and the method of relating.

You will both need to give up the "agreeing to facts" concept and learn to consider your spouse's perspective. Only then can marital progress be made. Also, any two people, especially men and women ARE different. It's not how different you are, but how you accommodate those differences with mutually enthusiastic solutions. I know how much of a long shot that seems for you. You may have even adopted his method of communicating over the facts because you felt you had no other choice.

You are tired, so you are bowing out to avoid the conflict. That is better at least than having angry outbursts. What doesn't add up to me is that you are leaving your kids behind. Isn't that something that negatively impacted your husband growing up? Your kids still need your love and attention. You cannot be replaced by your husband. I know that you are tired, but they need to see good behavior to model!
Don't expect to POJA kids' stuff. You guys will not magically find POJA skills after divorce. Using the courts is an expensive way to do it, even though it might work.

You have already tried to introduce MB to no avail. I recommend that you are honest with him about why you are withdrawing. Also, from now on, ONLY communicate about your marriage or complaints via EMAIL. All verbal communication should be positive or neutral. It will help him to feel good when he sees you. It will prevent you from being disrespectful. It will give him time to process your thoughts and respond. (I wish that I would have done that, btw.)

If you want to reintroduce MB, maybe do it in the form of an email letter with an attachment to an article that explains what you are trying to say.

Hope this gives you something to think about...

Know that you are not alone.

You posted that you are in plan B.
When did you enter plan B?
Did you send a plan B letter?
Do you have an intermediary?

Thank you so much Didn'tQuit. Your user name tells me you tougher it out and succeeded, I am happy for you!

Everything you said makes a lot of sense. I think I looked into the abyss that is our differences and I feel quite hopeless about the marriage. There is a mistaken perception on the thread that I left on my own volition, in fact I left because of the addendum contract's demand, and the fact that my husband told me to leave the other projects in the office. There was a really nice housing project I was keen to work on but H didn't want me involved after a couple of meetings with the client. I remember leaving the office in tears after another fight, saying "Ok, I will take the hotel contract and leave the housing contract as you asked." If I want to earn an income, I have to take this current hotel contract, a difficult one, and I have to hire new staff and quickly set up an operation with computers and other hardware in this city 2 hours away from home.

H of course denied he ever said to leave, he said I left him and the children. Unless I go through the lawyers, I won't see any alimony or child support from him, he made it very clear. He told me "my parents told me fortunately they didn't give me anything because you will take everything from me."

I don't know how to take this any more. I know we can't agree on facts, but his reality is so different from mine, I feel hopeless. I found out recently that he signed a partnership without me knowing with someone else in France. I know French and he doesn't. To my alarm, I spotted a phrase on the legal document that could commit us to more work than was agreed on based on his understanding. I was understandably upset that he would do this without informing me, what if the new partnership/project/contract goes bad and I, as one of the company directors, become entangled and liable?

When I raised this, instead of apologising for hiding something so important from me, or looking into correcting the issue, he gave an old contract(in French) that I had vetted and OKed to this new French partner who then proceeded to lie to him that there were many disadvantages I had allowed in the contract to somehow prove that I am incompetent to read contracts. In fact, this new French partner is not telling the truth, this contract I vetted secured interest payment for us if the counter party delayed payment, etc., but how can a husband trust a new acquaintance more than his wife?

I just don't know what to say, I'm just speechless ...

I just don't want anymore of this craziness... This is not a sick competition, we are not to be against each other, when I see the clause/phrase I was alarmed at our liabilities and obligations, it wasn't a one-upmanship to "prove" something, and then to have my husband turn around and tried to prove me incompetent with the help of this new acquaintance who then proceeded to lie to him that I allowed a very bad contract to be signed by our company.... And my husband found a perverse pleasure in proving me "wrong", "incompetent", etc.

Yet this entire marriage is a "rivalry" in everything as seen from the eyes of my husband, from work to family to kids.

I suffered too much. Like I said, I just want an end and a stop to this.

Jedi Knight, I tried to introduce MB to my husband but he didn't bother to go into it or read it. He treated all of my marriage improvement research, reading, courses, all the same way.

I didn't tell him exactly that this was Plan B because he would need to understand what it meant. At the same time, even as I started to plant my leaving, I have already decided in the deepest of my heart that I really don't want this marriage anymore, but to look into how to make it easier for the kids. We will never stop fighting, I will never understand his thinking, I can't imagine his psyche. I feel ill that he us always looking to attack me, or he sees an attack where none is meant, eg spotting a problem in the contract he signed is to him a great disrespect to be punished. I don't know how to explain what marriage is like with such a person.

He does not need to know what it means for you to be in Plan B. However, you are not in Plan B. You are in Plan C for Catastrophe.

You are not in plan b.
plan B is a very specific plan for separation during a spouses affair.
You are separated from your husband working out of town.
Based on following your thread for some time, I suggest you write to Dr Harley and ask if he recommends divorce. You can email him at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com.
Alternatively, you could also speak with Steve Harley (click Marriage Coaching link on website) for a plan to save your marriage through separation.

Trying to make things easier for the kids will often be futile given your husband's behavior. You need a plan and then pull the trigger. There is no way you can control the outcome by thinking about it ad naseum and there will never be any resolution if you don't take action.

It can also be used as a last ditch option to turn around a reluctant spouse. Of course it also has to be done properly which is not the case here.