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Please listen. Serial cheaters are not damaged mythical forest fairies. They make a conscience choice to go outside of their marriages.

Yes ok I get it but you guys have to remember he left her. he said he wanted nothing from her. he never even cared for the kids. she was completely rejected. this broke her then and she would take any attention she could get. until she met me and she pursued me for something more. she was very open about that from the beginning. When things would get rocky she would fight hard for us. I took that for granted and did not appreciate the fight and pain she had when I was willing to walk away. yes, I did not know the true meaning of a marriage and let my own selfish needs come before my wife's heart. I hurt her many times in the last 2 years with my willingness to end things when I was mad. I played a huge part. I walked her right to the line. then she crossed it because she truly was broken and alone. I knew of that weakness in her and abused it. I know the part I played and also the one she played. I am pissed at both of us for not appreciating what a real marriage means.

Because she is a baby. Only babies are loved unconditionally. Grown ups have conditions - like fidelity! She wants to spit up on you and poop all over your life and still be loved 'unconditionally'. If you are up for that it is your funeral.

When women are like this they have usually had an affair with a married man while quite young. They get hooked on the unconditional love on offer in affairs.

In an affair you can behave however you like - go home to another person and you are still loved. Sick.

But she isn't a baby. My H totally rejected me and I didn't run out to get my boo-boos kissed by all and sundry.

It is still an affair! When you make vows you retain the fidelity until the vows are dissolved.

Where the unconditional love was coming from was she was taking some of our problems to some of her family that started telling her all these things a marriage should have. these people started getting so far into her for what our marriage should be that her own parents didn't like it. these people heard one side of the story and wifey got to hear what she wanted. The last two years we had almost nothing working toward us. me pushing my wife away so she would look for help elsewhere and me thinking because of all the financial and work things I was doing made me think it was alright to do that.

"Love unconditionally" is something that is thrown around a lot without being very much considered, which is why we don't support it here. Love absolutely has conditions in a marriage.

Should a wife love a man that beats her? What if he molests her children or cheats on her with other women?

God can love you unconditionally, but any of us saying we can love someone unconditionally (or expecting it from someone else) is frankly writing a check that we can't cash. You're not there yet, but if your wife keeps hurting you, you will stop loving her. I promise you that. Trying to love someone unconditionally without communicating expectations or hurts to them will only make you very resentful of them and feel trapped. We're all only human.

It's good that you're motivated to work on where you made mistakes here, that's really good. We can help you a lot with working on any bad habits you know you had in this marriage.

But your error here was not failing to love her unconditionally. It's not reasonable to expect that someone will run to other men any time you make them unhappy. Most people would not tolerate that arrangement, and if you want to continue trying it will only further your misery. If you continue at all with this woman she needs to get some boundaries.

Wow, yes thank you. I so much agreed with that in regards to unconditional love. but have been getting drilled into my head so much in the last year.

The worst thing about this is the big fight day were I lose my sht was her birthday to boot. we just had to much stress and we lost control. my life turned from near perfect to totally gone in the last 2 years.

Thank you for offering to help. yes I have been working so hard to better myself for understanding marriage and love. I have read so many books and learned so much. if only I would have read 5 love languages sooner I would of seen my wife needed quality time more than gifts. I have really began to take an understanding of what it takes to not only make a marriage work but to make it great.

Why does this weak, plagiarised version of Dr Harley's work appear time and again on this forum?

Probably because he takes a softer line (or none) about handlinG infideliTy. So many people are offended by Dr Harley saying that THEY could have an affair.

(Sorry if that was rhetorical)

You know I was just reading over things and although it probably doesn't matter, where I said she "pursued" the divorce after we had got together is more accurate as finalized the last paper as the year apart had already expired. I did not mean for it to sound like they just started talking divorce. all was figured out and filed they were just waiting the mandatory year and then it was finalized.

Sono, if you really think this is a different situation, ask Dr H. He has extensive experience and can tell you about all the exceptions to his rules.

Thank you Indie,
Yes I feel this is a bit of a mixed bag. a little of everything in it. But for the most part I know how hard my wife fought for this marriage for all of 12 years. I know how I pushed her away and finally broke her as well. yes she had potential for weakness but her want of this marriage kept it healed.

I will try and get in touch with him. thank you so much.
Is his wifes email the best place to go? Thank you.

You can get in touch with them at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com
Provide your phone number to be on the show.

Rhetorical Question: If only SHE had unconditionally loved you, then this wouldn't be happening right now, would it?

I presume you are either in North Carolina or Canada where you have to wait a year separated before you can even file a divorce. i presume also your wife WAS separated for some period of time and the husband wasn't even anywhere near the picture (he wasn't talking to or seeing his wife OR kids at the time) when you first started pursuing any kind of emotional or physical relationship with your wife, is that right?

If that's the case I really don't see this as a classic affairage case; however, the history of HER behavior is quite likely playing a role in her current behavior. From her side of things, when a marriage gets tough, use her looks, play the damsel in distress, get attention from men and find another knight in shining armor. It's the same behavior that usually destroys affairages where BOTH of the parties have this attitude towards marriage. You aren't completely innocent here. You had your own choices and choose to date (and later marry) a woman (with children) that was still technically married and these are sometimes the consequences of marrying a person with lots of baggage. It was a foolish and probably youthful mistake and maybe I'm missing something you said above but I don't see you as the intervening OM in any MB sense of the word.

Then again, maybe I'm going soft.

In my personally opinion, this type of wayward wife is the hardest to get back. Moving on worked for her so well with you....that it'll surely work for her again with this new guy (in her mind). She won't end it so I'd say the best you can do is mess with the OM as best you can and TRY to make dating and being with your wife so hard and complicated for him that he dumps her to pursue more available less complicated women. Once her affair ends, hopefully she'll turn back to old Mr. Reliable and come home, clear the fog and work on actually building a meaningful extraordinary marriage built upon a much more practical and truer foundation than "unconditional love".

Rereading...two questions:

1. What were the "hiccups", precisely? Did she cheat on you while you were dating or early in your marriage? How many times?

2. What do you mean "her husband left her when this started"? On first read I thought you meant her husband left when YOU "started" your relationship with his wife but now I'm thinking you may be saying her first husband left her because she was fooling around with other men (before you). THEN he abandoned his wayward wife (and, unfortunately his kids). THEN, several months and several OM's later sometime during or even after the one year separation period in your state ...she met and pursued you, a more mature and stable guy. She even had to kind of talk you into dating and being with her as you were skeptical of her shady past and you encourage her to actually file the divorce which she hadn't gotten around to doing yet (how long had they been separated at that time and were they even speaking at all?)

Hi and thank you,
Her husband did not want to be a responsible husband. they were young. no she was not having an affair. he just did not want to be with her and the kids. She was faithfull till about 6 months after she had moved out with kids and was destroyed her husband did not fight for her. she became easy pray for other men willing to show her some attention.

The two hickups were that we had some serious fights where our relationship was pretty much over and she ran into an old boyfriends arms for comfort.it was within the first year of dating.

That is what I would tell Dr Harley. The man is uncanny about spotting a dyed in the wool wayward and can tell you what your chances are here. You should also tell him (and us) how she met these guys - did they approach her or did she go online looking for attention?

I must say that when I was separated I was targeted by quite a few men hoping to capitalize on my pain. I hadn't necessarily thought it was wrong to date when separated (before I got here). I had the support of MB at that time to prevent me doing something stupid which was a blessing.

I know Dr H has helped quite a few people who made poor decisions in their pasts turn things around. I would trust whatever he tells you - never heard him get it wrong.

Yes I will tell him that.
All of this is why I feel this might be the first exit affair he may see is. I believe that me and my wife were both codependent on one another and that is how I had hurt my wife so bad and she felt rejected and pushed away so far that she finally decided to leave. I don't think my chances are good for getting her back even though she still keeps me at an arms length.

These men pursued her. just as you say they capitalized on her pain and got what they wanted and left. she would feel even worse and the cycle would repeat. She feels so ashamed of this past and it has caused insecurities in me to the point that I would bring these mistakes up in heated moments and hurt her with them to see her fight for me to feed my insecurities. Yes so wrong, so wrong. I did not even know the damage and hurt I was causing doing this habit I learned to fix my pain until it was to late. that is why I seem so defensive of her because I pushed her down a path she so desperately wanted to stay away from. I know my chances are next to none. She did not jump into her mistake until I broke her and pushed her away.

Dr H is a keen advocate of 'codependancy'! It's good for husbands and wives are dependent on each other.

As for throwing past mistakes at her: yes foolish and abusive But not unwarranted. She still has poor boundaries