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Originally Posted by Prisca
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I do not want to "control"... and I am setting the limit on myself, not her... the way I see limit setting is limits on what I am willing to do. I am paying for the TV... I don't have to. She is free to leave, go to a bar, go to a friends house and watch her TV, she is even free to go have am affair... I cannot control any of that. I thought that us what he meant by control... I thought that if something deeply offended me that was in my house that I pay all the bills for, I could set my own limit on what I am willing to do. I see your point though about it seeming parent-child. I also thought it would seem uncaring of me if I didn't do it.
You were controlling her. Period. You demanded that she watch something else (and yes, it was a demand -- how do you tell the difference between a request and a demand?). Then you had an AO over what TV show she chose to watch, and you controlled her.

You are right... I had AO... I thought a request is where you have the option to say no. I simply asked her if she would like to do something else. I gave her the option to say no. She said no, and I got angry and went for a walk... that was an AO! I agree. I should have just told her how hurtful and offensive it was to me and moved on. The part that makes me mad is that she could care in the least how her behavior hurts me. I think that is why I should start planning now for plan B. I will need to stay in plan A until the day we can separate. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?

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She said no, and I got angry
So she really didn't have the option to say "no."

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I will need to stay in plan A until the day we can separate. Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Yes.


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you are right... in the end I punished her for her thoughtless behavior. I have a history of doing this... as in Dr Harley's article that I referenced, she historically will do things without regard to my thoughts or feelings... thoughtlessness to the the extreme and utter disregard for my feelings. My historical response has been to withhold something or withdraw... this has been a pattern of behaviors.

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She asked me to pick up some items tomorrow including feminine hygiene products... I feel demoralized doing it and I know there will be severe punishment from her if i don't pick up a single item on her list. Should I do it?

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Originally Posted by typicalman
She asked me to pick up some items tomorrow including feminine hygiene products... I feel demoralized doing it and I know there will be severe punishment from her if i don't pick up a single item on her list. Should I do it?

I would use every opportunity like this. dont look at it as demoralizing look at it as a way to make love bank deposits.


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Yes I would agree, you should do it. Nothing demoralizing about purchasing feminine products, if you are working to save your marriage.


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Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Yes I would agree, you should do it. Nothing demoralizing about purchasing feminine products, if you are working to save your marriage.

Ok... yes, on the other hand, should I do something that I do not enjoy for her? This is what I have been doing all along with plan A, sacraficing and capituating and it doesn't seem to be working. I am also being told on this forum to stop doing that.

I should be negotiating with her to find a win win... maybe I do something else for her... like watch the kids while she runs to the store.. etc. We could discuss other options, but, it it simply not up for negotiation with her.

Can you imagine the consequences and punishment that I face though if I do not come home with this stuff? I'm probably not making a love bank deposit when I am just avoiding punishment.

Can you see who is controlling who in this relationship? I am terrified to not do something that I really don't want to do. She knows that... so, I think when I do things for her... she knows that it is out of fear and that may be a reason for no deposits. Is there any way a out of this cycle? Separation or Divorce seems like the only option.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
Originally Posted by LostOnWestCoast
Yes I would agree, you should do it. Nothing demoralizing about purchasing feminine products, if you are working to save your marriage.

Ok... yes, on the other hand, should I do something that I do not enjoy for her? This is what I have been doing all along with plan A, sacraficing and capituating and it doesn't seem to be working. I am also being told on this forum to stop doing that.

I should be negotiating with her to find a win win... maybe I do something else for her... like watch the kids while she runs to the store.. etc. We could discuss other options, but, it it simply not up for negotiation with her.

Can you imagine the consequences and punishment that I face though if I do not come home with this stuff? I'm probably not making a love bank deposit when I am just avoiding punishment.

Can you see who is controlling who in this relationship? I am terrified to not do something that I really don't want to do. She knows that... so, I think when I do things for her... she knows that it is out of fear and that may be a reason for no deposits. Is there any way a out of this cycle? Separation or Divorce seems like the only option.

You overthink everything. You could just tell her - Hun, I feel uncomfortable purchasing women's stuff - could you take some time and go shopping and I will take kids out (or something like that).

From outside it looks like you are trying to justify separation/divorce and exaggerating her faults and minimizing yours. No need to justify that, it's your decision, and Dr Harley totally approves divorce on the ground of infidelity.

BTW, how are the kids health? Have you sorted out the issue with their treatment(s)?


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Originally Posted by typicalman
Ok... yes, on the other hand, should I do something that I do not enjoy for her? This is what I have been doing all along with plan A, sacraficing and capituating and it doesn't seem to be working. I am also being told on this forum to stop doing that.
Plan A doesn't include sacrifice.

Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by Dr Bill Harley
Plan A should never involve sacrifice. In other words, you can be as encouraging as possible about your willingness to meet his emotional needs without actually doing it, and still be in Plan A. And you can defend yourself from your husband's abuse (calling the police or calling his lover's husband) and still be in Plan A. The point of plan A is that you are making an effort to do your part to make your marriage successful, but from my perspective, it should never involve personal sacrifice.

Originally Posted by What Are Plan A and Plan B?
So, then, what is plan A and plan B?

Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, and selfish demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.

On the other hand, if the betrayed spouse approaches the wayward spouse with respect and thoughtfulness, the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair is much easier for the wayward spouse to understand. And once the wayward spouse's mistake is acknowledged, it's much easier for him or her to take the first step toward recovery by agreeing to never see or talk to the lover again.
here

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Originally Posted by Aerith
You overthink everything. You could just tell her - Hun, I feel uncomfortable purchasing women's stuff - could you take some time and go shopping and I will take kids out (or something like that).

If I were to suggest that... her body language would get a very hostile.. as if she is about to punish me. Se would say that I do not care about her or my family... just the idea that I would try to negotiate it would be offensive and I would be told to simply stop talking.
Quote
From outside it looks like you are trying to justify separation/divorce and exaggerating her faults and minimizing yours. No need to justify that, it's your decision, and Dr Harley totally approves divorce on the ground of infidelity.

in a way, yes. I am trying to see if I am at the point that I have tried everything I can do;
I have not completely eliminated lovebusters (probably 90%, but not 100%)... the question that I am asking
#1 is 100% an achievable goal?
#2 given the stuff that I am having to put up with from her (demands, disrespect, AO's) on her side, is it possible for me to completely eliminate love busters on my side or am I trying to do the impossible??
#3 If I am able to get to 100% elimination of love busters...will it take 6 months+ for it to have an effect? can I put up with her for that long?
#4 With a pending divorce going on, it may be even more difficult...
I haven't talked much about this, but I am catching her in a lot of lies.. and big ones which is also weighting on me.
These are the honest questions that I am asking. With the legal stuff going on, I have a good opportunity to set in place plans for a plan B.. and possibly avoid all contact with her and I'm thinking that might be a good thing to at least start planning for.

Quote
BTW, how are the kids health? Have you sorted out the issue with their treatment(s)?

Here is where is stands:
I met with the school.. they were of limited help, but they will monitor, record, and call me if there are any issues with Asthma, coughing etc.. The school nurse will listen to his chest. I can come in and give him inhalers. So far there have been no calls.. the biggest problems seem to be the morning / night.

I have convinced my son when he is miserable to take his rescue inhaler because he sees the value in it. He will not take his preventative. He said that he would take some other kind of medicine... so I looked into singulair (which is what I take.. but I read about side effects for kids and that worried me)

I was taking him also to speech, but my wife would complain every time I took him. I am basically stopping that now. She also won't let me take the kids to therapy, so that has stopped.

The kids overall health & emotional health is definitely not as good as it was before my wife came back, but they are OK.

I am still working on bonding with them but not disciplining them. I have found several activities that they like to do with me or we can do together. They love both parents a lot and this whole situation is heartbreaking for them.

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Originally Posted by Aerith
From outside it looks like you are trying to justify separation/divorce and exaggerating her faults and minimizing yours.
I think that before the affair, the faults were 50/50... I can see that we both tried to solve conflict the wrong way after reading Dr Harley's books. Be were both controlling and abusive to each other. Two years ago, I did not know what to do about it, but I knew I didn't like it and I made the first attempt to reach out to her and improve things. Since the affair, I have been the only one trying to save the marriage. My marriage counselors would agree that I have put into practice everything that we discussed in counseling and my wife has done basically zero. That is probably a result of her having the affair. This is why it comes off that I am blaming her. I am making mistakes, but I am the only one doing anything to at least try to change.. I know all this goes without saying and this is the case with alot of affairs.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
She asked me to pick up some items tomorrow including feminine hygiene products... I feel demoralized doing it and I know there will be severe punishment from her if i don't pick up a single item on her list. Should I do it?

I have done it all the time, but if it bothers you, don't do it. Just politely say "I'm sorry, I don't feel comfortable picking up feminine hygiene products. I'll be happy to get everything else."

Then,

Let her decide how she is going to respond.

She may respond with demands, disrespect, or anger. If she does, just take it in stride and don't respond in kind. If she wants to ask why you don't feel comfortable or debate you, just say, "I don't know; it just makes me uncomfortable to do that." Don't make a big deal out of it. Let her decide how she wants to respond.

Meanwhile, try to find something else you can do for her instead that will make her really happy, and do it. My wife likes it when I bring her small gifts from the store. Something as simple as bringing her a soda or a bottle of nail polish means a lot to her.

The key is to keep it low key: don't make a big deal out of it. Don't debate her on how you should feel about the subject.

But if it were me, I'd get them. Have done so for years. Gonna have to do so for three or four daughters here in coming years, too.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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I just got this. Before the affair, she never asked me to do this, but in the last 12 months she started to. I didn't mind alot.. especially if it would make her happy, but rather, it feels like a) she wants to punish me now and b) she wants me to get the wrong kind so she has ye another excuse to berate me.

Well.. I stopped and did the shopping last night. When I got to the aisle there was a little boy with a shopping cart blocking the product. I was too embarrassed to ask him to move so I could get something for my cheating, abusive wife who is divorcing me. I broke down in tears right there in the store. I cried all the way home. When I got home, she was not in the kitchen as usual, but when she found me... she asked why I didn't come to say hi to her... truth was that I was still crying. I said, sorry... I'll come give you a hug and a kiss.. she said "don't let your mitts touch me"... "you are the one that needs the feminine hygiene products"

It's true... I should be able to say no and do something else. If I had tried your suggestion with someone who would act reasonable I could have done it. Before the affair, I probably could have refused such a request.. I would have been punished, but now the threat of punishment is all too severe. I had been bringing home flowers and that sort of thing, but she usually finds something wrong with them.

Anyway, I'm sure you all know... I'm living with a space alien and not a regular parson right now so I will be put in "no win" situations time and time again. I will be set up for failure over and over... and negotiation is not a possibility. I'm going to leave her a little love note before I go to work today and I know a few things to say.

I'm starting to feel really sick though. I have been under incredible stress at work (end of year) and my lawyer sent me a note saying that my wife and her attorney had been lying to me. On Christmas day, my wife asked if I would take a day off to go to court and finish the divorce. I told her that I withdrew the divorce; she said that I was a liar so I showed her an email to my attorney that I was dismissing it. My lawyer said that she had heard from the other side just 2 days before Christmas that they had discussed my proposal to dismiss, but the other side did want to proceed. She didn't want to tell me right before Christmas. On Sunday, the day before I found out.. she was still asking me for money and asking me to make plans for her birthday even though she plans on being divorced in a couple weeks.

This is partially why I think that it's an opportune time to be planning plan B.. she will clearly divorce me and still plan to walk all over me, have me take her out to eat, take care of the kids, etc... while she lives a life of freedom. I would like to plan to pick the kids up from school and drop them off in the morning for 4 days/ week, then when it all goes through, I will go completely no-contact plan B.

I need to have some focus on my health, stress, career and keep myself in some kind of good shape for these kids. They are going to need me and rely on me until they are adults.

On another note... last night, I was watching her do something. For whatever reason, she wanted to do something her self and not ask me to do it for her. She never finished the task but she tried and I felt proud of her. It occurred to me at that moment that I still love her. I can't think of any logical reason why and according to Dr Harley's theories, I should hate her right now but I don't and the reason really escapes me.

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I think if you want to keep this marriage going you will have to weather some punishment for the time being. I had to weather a lot of it. Antidepressants will help substantially if you get your doctor to prescribe them and stay in regular contact with him to keep them well adjusted. At the very least this might help you to keep your head on straight long enough to plan a Plan B.

If you review what Dr. Harley says about the three states of mind in marriage, there are the states of withdrawal and the states of conflict, and typically what men have to do here is learn how to handle things when their wife is in these two stages. She will go back and forth. Dr. Harley says about a wife in withdrawal that "she will come out swinging" when she moves into conflict. It is absolutely true. She won't follow the rules - not any rules at all. It's incumbent on a husband to learn how to not respond with demands, disrespect, or anger, while simultaneously learning how to meet her emotional needs, while simultaneously learning how to not do things for her that are making him miserable.

If you review what Dr. Harley says about the Giver and the Taker, Plan A is all about bringing both of these on board. You may start out giving away the store in a desperate bid to make her happy, but over time you have to migrate away from these behaviors and find ways to make her happy that don't make you miserable. Your skill at this needs to be constantly increasing through practice and discovery. In the end all this does is offer her the chance of a happy marriage which she can choose to accept or reject, and you have to be ready for either possibility, knowing that eventually you will go to Plan B if she does not take you up on the offer. And simultaneously you have to fight the affair by exposing it to the entire world, confronting the other man, etc.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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Originally Posted by typicalman
I just got this. Before the affair, she never asked me to do this, but in the last 12 months she started to. I didn't mind alot.. especially if it would make her happy, but rather, it feels like a) she wants to punish me now and b) she wants me to get the wrong kind so she has ye another excuse to berate me.

Well.. I stopped and did the shopping last night. When I got to the aisle there was a little boy with a shopping cart blocking the product. I was too embarrassed to ask him to move so I could get something for my cheating, abusive wife who is divorcing me. I broke down in tears right there in the store. I cried all the way home. When I got home, she was not in the kitchen as usual, but when she found me... she asked why I didn't come to say hi to her... truth was that I was still crying. I said, sorry... I'll come give you a hug and a kiss.. she said "don't let your mitts touch me"... "you are the one that needs the feminine hygiene products"

It's true... I should be able to say no and do something else. If I had tried your suggestion with someone who would act reasonable I could have done it. Before the affair, I probably could have refused such a request.. I would have been punished, but now the threat of punishment is all too severe. I had been bringing home flowers and that sort of thing, but she usually finds something wrong with them.

Anyway, I'm sure you all know... I'm living with a space alien and not a regular parson right now so I will be put in "no win" situations time and time again. I will be set up for failure over and over... and negotiation is not a possibility. I'm going to leave her a little love note before I go to work today and I know a few things to say.

I'm starting to feel really sick though. I have been under incredible stress at work (end of year) and my lawyer sent me a note saying that my wife and her attorney had been lying to me. On Christmas day, my wife asked if I would take a day off to go to court and finish the divorce. I told her that I withdrew the divorce; she said that I was a liar so I showed her an email to my attorney that I was dismissing it. My lawyer said that she had heard from the other side just 2 days before Christmas that they had discussed my proposal to dismiss, but the other side did want to proceed. She didn't want to tell me right before Christmas. On Sunday, the day before I found out.. she was still asking me for money and asking me to make plans for her birthday even though she plans on being divorced in a couple weeks.

This is partially why I think that it's an opportune time to be planning plan B.. she will clearly divorce me and still plan to walk all over me, have me take her out to eat, take care of the kids, etc... while she lives a life of freedom. I would like to plan to pick the kids up from school and drop them off in the morning for 4 days/ week, then when it all goes through, I will go completely no-contact plan B.

I need to have some focus on my health, stress, career and keep myself in some kind of good shape for these kids. They are going to need me and rely on me until they are adults.

On another note... last night, I was watching her do something. For whatever reason, she wanted to do something her self and not ask me to do it for her. She never finished the task but she tried and I felt proud of her. It occurred to me at that moment that I still love her. I can't think of any logical reason why and according to Dr Harley's theories, I should hate her right now but I don't and the reason really escapes me.


So Typical Man,
What's your Plan for Plan A? You are breaking down because you are feeling defeated. If you put together a plan and execute that plan, you will feel empowered and in control, confident, bullet proof even. So let's work on a plan.

I'll get you started:

TM's Plan A:
1) Become proficient at meeting WW's 3 most important ENs:
a. ____________
b. ___________
c. ____________

2) Become proficient at controlling my 3 most common LBs:
a. ____________
b. ____________
c. ____________

3) Remove these top 3 stressors that I can control (not the affair)
a. ____________
b. ____________
c. ____________

4) Take up these 2 healthy activities that I have wanted to but have never had the time/energy/permission to:
a. ____________
b. ____________

Once these goals have been populated, we can brainstorm HOW to achieve them.

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Originally Posted by WalkTheWalk
Originally Posted by typicalman
I just got this. Before the affair, she never asked me to do this, but in the last 12 months she started to. I didn't mind alot.. especially if it would make her happy, but rather, it feels like a) she wants to punish me now and b) she wants me to get the wrong kind so she has ye another excuse to berate me.

Well.. I stopped and did the shopping last night. When I got to the aisle there was a little boy with a shopping cart blocking the product. I was too embarrassed to ask him to move so I could get something for my cheating, abusive wife who is divorcing me. I broke down in tears right there in the store. I cried all the way home. When I got home, she was not in the kitchen as usual, but when she found me... she asked why I didn't come to say hi to her... truth was that I was still crying. I said, sorry... I'll come give you a hug and a kiss.. she said "don't let your mitts touch me"... "you are the one that needs the feminine hygiene products"

It's true... I should be able to say no and do something else. If I had tried your suggestion with someone who would act reasonable I could have done it. Before the affair, I probably could have refused such a request.. I would have been punished, but now the threat of punishment is all too severe. I had been bringing home flowers and that sort of thing, but she usually finds something wrong with them.

Anyway, I'm sure you all know... I'm living with a space alien and not a regular parson right now so I will be put in "no win" situations time and time again. I will be set up for failure over and over... and negotiation is not a possibility. I'm going to leave her a little love note before I go to work today and I know a few things to say.

I'm starting to feel really sick though. I have been under incredible stress at work (end of year) and my lawyer sent me a note saying that my wife and her attorney had been lying to me. On Christmas day, my wife asked if I would take a day off to go to court and finish the divorce. I told her that I withdrew the divorce; she said that I was a liar so I showed her an email to my attorney that I was dismissing it. My lawyer said that she had heard from the other side just 2 days before Christmas that they had discussed my proposal to dismiss, but the other side did want to proceed. She didn't want to tell me right before Christmas. On Sunday, the day before I found out.. she was still asking me for money and asking me to make plans for her birthday even though she plans on being divorced in a couple weeks.

This is partially why I think that it's an opportune time to be planning plan B.. she will clearly divorce me and still plan to walk all over me, have me take her out to eat, take care of the kids, etc... while she lives a life of freedom. I would like to plan to pick the kids up from school and drop them off in the morning for 4 days/ week, then when it all goes through, I will go completely no-contact plan B.

I need to have some focus on my health, stress, career and keep myself in some kind of good shape for these kids. They are going to need me and rely on me until they are adults.

On another note... last night, I was watching her do something. For whatever reason, she wanted to do something her self and not ask me to do it for her. She never finished the task but she tried and I felt proud of her. It occurred to me at that moment that I still love her. I can't think of any logical reason why and according to Dr Harley's theories, I should hate her right now but I don't and the reason really escapes me.


So Typical Man,
What's your Plan for Plan A? You are breaking down because you are feeling defeated. If you put together a plan and execute that plan, you will feel empowered and in control, confident, bullet proof even. So let's work on a plan.

I'll get you started:

TM's Plan A:
1) Become proficient at meeting WW's 3 most important ENs:
a. ____________
b. ___________
c. ____________

2) Become proficient at controlling my 3 most common LBs:
a. ____________
b. ____________
c. ____________

3) Remove these top 3 stressors that I can control (not the affair)
a. ____________
b. ____________
c. ____________

4) Take up these 2 healthy activities that I have wanted to but have never had the time/energy/permission to:
a. ____________
b. ____________

Once these goals have been populated, we can brainstorm HOW to achieve them.

This is a good list....

I have made a lot of changes in the last 12 months focusing on emotional needs, but her wall seems to be up.
1. Family commitment
2. Conversation
3. Open and Honest

Love busters... I am struggling as you can see to get to 100%, but I am A LOT better than a year ago... problem is that I am "baited" constantly to get involved in a fight of have an AO.


She was in withdrawal for months when she moved away. Since she has been back, she has been in a state of conflict almost all the time. I think that what is going on with the state of conflict is that she is trying to prove her case for divorce... she is working really hard to prove it is all my fault... it doesn't seem to be the kind of conflict where she wants to move to intimacy... but rather the other way.

I could be making lb deposits though without realizing it... she seems to see people as all good or all bad.. so going from a state of hating me to intimacy has been like a light switch in the past... but it's hard to tell if I am making any headway.

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1) I think youre still lovebusting big with out realizing it. 2) she lives in one BIG, FAT lovevuster so you are constantly behind the eight-ball to start. 3) any man who finds a woman's normal bodily functions shameful will be love busting constantly without realizing it.

You need to make a Plan A plan and execute hard. You still find something lovable in her so she must not be a totally worhtless human.

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I'm going to try to find a clip from a previous show to put your marriage before the affair in the appropriate context.

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Originally Posted by apples123
1) I think youre still lovebusting big with out realizing it. 2) she lives in one BIG, FAT lovevuster so you are constantly behind the eight-ball to start. 3) any man who finds a woman's normal bodily functions shameful will be love busting constantly without realizing it.

You need to make a Plan A plan and execute hard. You still find something lovable in her so she must not be a totally worhtless human.

On 1, yes.. I think I underestimated the fact that the bar is raised sooo high now because she is trying to prove me bad..(I think Dr Harley talked about this recently) I thought I reduced love busters, but I didn't count on the bar being raised so high.

On 2, this is hard... I cannot move in the middle of a Divorce.. and I am the only breadwinner for the family.. so yes throwing my career down the toilet for someone that wants to divorce me is hard pill to swallow. It's also hard for me to measure how big of an issue it really is for her... she wants to live on the beach.. yes, I get it... but I can't be married to someone that spends half the year going to the beach.. I will be resentful of that and I need an equal partner in life.

#3.. this has nothing to do with bodily functions.. .it has to do with feeling taken advantage of; If she loved me, I could do almost anything for her and feel fine about it.. I am motivated to make her happy. A relationship that is so one sided just took a toll on me.. I felt that she wanted to embarrass me on purpose... she stayed home all day and she could have easily done this herself.

What I found lovable about her is that she was doing something for herself.. .not making me do it. I fell in love with her and married her originally because she seemed to be a hardworking person and she was my true partner in life.. we worked together. I saw a glimpse of that possibility... where we could actually help eachother do something and not me just do everything for her.

The Biggest problem, you are right is love busters and I didn't know it... no matter how good I can do on the love busters, I need to make some deposits somehow though.

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Originally Posted by typicalman
#3.. this has nothing to do with bodily functions.. .it has to do with feeling taken advantage of; If she loved me, I could do almost anything for her and feel fine about it.. I am motivated to make her happy. A relationship that is so one sided just took a toll on me.. I felt that she wanted to embarrass me on purpose... she stayed home all day and she could have easily done this herself.

I also would not assume that a reluctance to buy these items had anything to do with finding female body functions shameful. I know plenty of people, men and women, who are uncomfortable buying anything "personal." (You might also be self conscious buying preparation H or condoms for yourself...)

But I think the love buster you need to be careful of here is Disrespectful Judgments. You are trying to read her mind and assign motives to her requests. "She's trying to humiliate you." You may be 100% correct and it's normal to believe we know why our spouse says/does something, but the truth is you don't know, and regardless, it is a love buster to express that.

I'm sure it is very frustrating to be told you are love busting when she's doing every love buster in the book to you, but you can't control her, only yourself.

As for the way you feel she "punishes" you. Maybe Marcos or some others MB Vets can give some more examples, but it seems there is a difference between you plan A-ing and not LB-ing her, and you accepting abusive treatment from her.

You seem very afraid of "getting in trouble" from her. She is not your mommy! You are both grown adults. How can you possibly be "in trouble" when you are a grown man?

You know she's trying to goad you (but don't express that - LB!) so how do you react where you are not LB-ing back but also not accepting abuse? You go to the store and do buy the feminine hygiene products then she berates you for the wrong type. Or you don't buy them, and she berates you for that. What can you do?

My thought is to walk away. If she follows, leave or lock her out of the room you go into. I'm not sure if that's the best reaction - hopefully some will give suggestions. But what I would NOT do is debated you actions "Well I was trying too... but I thought... but you said..." and I would NEVER apologize when you haven't done anything wrong. She complains? Noted. She's unhappy. Noted. That does not mean you are a failure or wrong or owe her any kind of an apology. You're not glad she's unhappy, but you also aren't guilty of anything.

Do something else nice for her - an unrequested surprise. And when she complains about that, shrug it off. She's in conflict. She's going to complain about everything. But at some level she knows you did something nice for her.

Remember, she's trying to push you away and justify HER bad behavior by rewriting you as a monster right now. That's all her. Cowering in the face of that is not attractive.

AND YES - Please get on AD's if you haven't already. They may help so much you won't believe it.

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