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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
Can anyone explain to me why Harley allows for separation on grounds of persistent and long-term neglect of emotional needs for women and not for men? Are not the effects just as devastating to the marriage?

She doesn't have to meet your emotional needs until you stop the love busters. It's that simple.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by Prisca
I am sitting next to markos, and he wants me to tell you that NO, he did not answer your question. He gave you vital information that you need to act on immediately. Will you?

ij, I didn't see an answer to this, so I don't think I'm going to waste any more time here.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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A few more facts may help to clarify how I have been using MB for years. I have been self-employed from our home since the arrival of our second child and have lived virtually debt-free from that time. So in terms of her needs being met: 1)Affection- we maintained regular contact throughout the day almost everyday and I would touch her affectionately. For years now I have given cards, flowers and gifts for every occasion. Just on Mothers Day I arranged a BBQ at our sons house and gave her a nice card. I bring tea to her in bed almost every morning. 2)Conversation- I was available and took the time for regular conversation almost daily. She could touch base with me anytime she felt a need. 3)Open-Honesty- she always knew what was going on in my life. There was no opportunity for a secret life until most recent years. 4)Financial- she never lost sleep over finances. Our house was paid for, we never moved. She does the books for our business so she always knew exactly where we were at with money. Everything financial was carefully considered jointly. We always maintained a substantial emergency fund. 5)Family- we took regular family vacations yearly, often for a month at a time. In 1999, with 6 children in tow, we camped and traveled around the country 10 months and did a similar trip some years later for 2 months! I fully participated in the home-schooling of our children in ways she approved. Regular family meals were the norm, usually 3x per day. However, in terms of my needs: 1) Sex- for many years it was infrequent, only at night, most often in the dark, "don't wake the baby", always initiated by me. It has improved a lot in recent years, but to this day her behavior regularly communicates sex "is not even on the radar". 2) Rec. Comp.- this has suffered immeasurably. The goal of 15 hours of truly private UA time is so rarely breached. 3) Attractive- enough said. 4) Domestic- for the most part excellent. 5)Admiration- she is not big on communicating this. She does express it once in a great while. Is anyone else perceiving an imbalance here? On top of this severe, long-term imbalance, my wife denies that she is practicing any LB. I assure you she does, she can be very demanding! As I stated in my original post, my LB set in after years of neglect and abuse as a means of protecting myself. Now she has a burnt-out, sleep-deprived, depressed husband who experiences anxiety reactions at the sheer thought of having a conversation with her. You have said that the man is the stronger one, but I am not sure it is true in our case. Call this whining if you want, but the fact remains, as much as I have tried to be, I am no longer attracted to my wife. She has taken too much at my expense for too long. For my health, I feel I need to get away from her.

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Have you tried to write you feelings down in a letter and give it to her?

Be Nice, Honest cordial, no love busters in the letter and give it to her.

You loved her once and you can love again. Many people fall out of love and get back together with an even better relationship. I myself am going through a difficult time with my wife and she is having an affair and I'm trying to pull out all the stops to keep this thing together!

I pray for you indianajordan to have wisdom guidance and understand from the Lord.


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dating/living together 7 years, married since Aug-2014

D-Day 04-25-2016
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I'm in no position to give you advice on what to do, but, I have to wonder, why do you keep saying the same thing over and over expecting a different response?

The wonderful people here have told you exactly what to do and instead of saying "thank you for your advice, I know you all have done this and now have wonderful marriages" you are saying "but...but..." excuses will get you nowhere in MB. No one is going to tell you it's ok to leave your wife, they are going to continue to say the same thing: clean up your side of the road before you worry about anything else, because that's what the MB program tells you to do.

I hope that you will start listening to them so you can have a marriage as wonderful as those who have replied to you.


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He did write an awful letter full of love busters, LMG. He seems to think it is okay to be cruel to get what he wants.

IJ, you are not using Marriage Builders. Focus on your own behavior because that is in your control. Stop brow beating your wife.

HNHN is only half the program. You need to learn to eliminate Lovebusters.

You have also not answered questions of the board, which tells us you aren't following the program. You are trying to use a perverted POJA to force your wife to let you ogle other women. I asked what are the steps for POJA because you are blatantly ignoring step 2 as well as he instructions to do nothing without your spouse enthusiastic agreement.

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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
A few more facts may help to clarify how I have been using MB for years. I have been self-employed from our home since the arrival of our second child and have lived virtually debt-free from that time. So in terms of her needs being met: 1)Affection- we maintained regular contact throughout the day almost everyday and I would touch her affectionately. For years now I have given cards, flowers and gifts for every occasion. Just on Mothers Day I arranged a BBQ at our sons house and gave her a nice card. I bring tea to her in bed almost every morning. 2)Conversation- I was available and took the time for regular conversation almost daily. She could touch base with me anytime she felt a need. 3)Open-Honesty- she always knew what was going on in my life. There was no opportunity for a secret life until most recent years. 4)Financial- she never lost sleep over finances. Our house was paid for, we never moved. She does the books for our business so she always knew exactly where we were at with money. Everything financial was carefully considered jointly. We always maintained a substantial emergency fund. 5)Family- we took regular family vacations yearly, often for a month at a time. In 1999, with 6 children in tow, we camped and traveled around the country 10 months and did a similar trip some years later for 2 months! I fully participated in the home-schooling of our children in ways she approved. Regular family meals were the norm, usually 3x per day. However, in terms of my needs: 1) Sex- for many years it was infrequent, only at night, most often in the dark, "don't wake the baby", always initiated by me. It has improved a lot in recent years, but to this day her behavior regularly communicates sex "is not even on the radar". 2) Rec. Comp.- this has suffered immeasurably. The goal of 15 hours of truly private UA time is so rarely breached. 3) Attractive- enough said. 4) Domestic- for the most part excellent. 5)Admiration- she is not big on communicating this. She does express it once in a great while. Is anyone else perceiving an imbalance here? On top of this severe, long-term imbalance, my wife denies that she is practicing any LB. I assure you she does, she can be very demanding! As I stated in my original post, my LB set in after years of neglect and abuse as a means of protecting myself. Now she has a burnt-out, sleep-deprived, depressed husband who experiences anxiety reactions at the sheer thought of having a conversation with her. You have said that the man is the stronger one, but I am not sure it is true in our case. Call this whining if you want, but the fact remains, as much as I have tried to be, I am no longer attracted to my wife. She has taken too much at my expense for too long. For my health, I feel I need to get away from her.

You are a classic example of someone who has a bad marriage because he cherry picked the program. You feel you meet the need of conversation by saying "I was available for conversation daily." This is not a need that is met effectively by being in the same house together and "being available." It is met effectively out on dates where you have each others undivided attention for a block of time, ie: 2-4 hours. You seem to approach this as a check the box exercise and don't concern yourself with effectiveness. We can see your approach has not been effective.

But the bigger issue is that you lovebust her so badly that none of this has any effect. You have lovebusted her terribly in front of us and here is what she had to say:

Originally Posted by indianaswife
Spending 15-20 hours with my husband feels like torture. He disrespects me, talks over me, lectures, is sarcastic, and has often been angry. His tone is regularily condescending and ridiculing. How am I supposed to get through 15 hours when it is so unpleasant?

So you may have been working hard, but not smart. Your efforts have clearly FAILED. Do you want to be successful or do you want to blog about your poor lot in life? If so, then stop typing long whiny posts about what you have done and start listening to us. YOU NEED TO CHANGE YOUR APPROACH.

Are you ready to get to work?


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by doesnt_want_meFL
I hope that you will start listening to them so you can have a marriage as wonderful as those who have replied to you.


IJ, I hear that you feel your efforts have outweighed your wife's.

I hear you saying that because you have provided so successfully and been a model father, that you are entitled to have her meet your needs in an equally perfect way.

I hear you when you say that it's not fair that we hold you accountable when she is the one out of line here.

I hear you that this imbalance is causing you to feel so neglected that you should abandon your family as a last ditch effort to motivate her to meet your needs.

I hear you that you have tried multiple ways to convince and motivate her. And I hear you trying to convince us.

Is that what you want me to hear? Is there anything else I am missing?

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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
A few more facts may help to clarify how I have been using MB for years. I have been self-employed from our home since the arrival of our second child and have lived virtually debt-free from that time. So in terms of her needs being met: 1)Affection- we maintained regular contact throughout the day almost everyday and I would touch her affectionately. For years now I have given cards, flowers and gifts for every occasion. Just on Mothers Day I arranged a BBQ at our sons house and gave her a nice card. I bring tea to her in bed almost every morning. 2)Conversation- I was available and took the time for regular conversation almost daily. She could touch base with me anytime she felt a need. 3)Open-Honesty- she always knew what was going on in my life. There was no opportunity for a secret life until most recent years. 4)Financial- she never lost sleep over finances. Our house was paid for, we never moved. She does the books for our business so she always knew exactly where we were at with money. Everything financial was carefully considered jointly. We always maintained a substantial emergency fund. 5)Family- we took regular family vacations yearly, often for a month at a time. In 1999, with 6 children in tow, we camped and traveled around the country 10 months and did a similar trip some years later for 2 months! I fully participated in the home-schooling of our children in ways she approved. Regular family meals were the norm, usually 3x per day. However, in terms of my needs: 1) Sex- for many years it was infrequent, only at night, most often in the dark, "don't wake the baby", always initiated by me. It has improved a lot in recent years, but to this day her behavior regularly communicates sex "is not even on the radar". 2) Rec. Comp.- this has suffered immeasurably. The goal of 15 hours of truly private UA time is so rarely breached. 3) Attractive- enough said. 4) Domestic- for the most part excellent. 5)Admiration- she is not big on communicating this. She does express it once in a great while. Is anyone else perceiving an imbalance here? On top of this severe, long-term imbalance, my wife denies that she is practicing any LB. I assure you she does, she can be very demanding! As I stated in my original post, my LB set in after years of neglect and abuse as a means of protecting myself. Now she has a burnt-out, sleep-deprived, depressed husband who experiences anxiety reactions at the sheer thought of having a conversation with her. You have said that the man is the stronger one, but I am not sure it is true in our case. Call this whining if you want, but the fact remains, as much as I have tried to be, I am no longer attracted to my wife. She has taken too much at my expense for too long. For my health, I feel I need to get away from her.

You are so busy explaining to us how you have effectively met all of your wife's needs IN YOUR PERSPECTIVE. But this is the problem, meeting someone's needs is not about your perspective at all. How have you met her needs in HER perspective?

Even if you are meeting her needs 100% (which, she would need to tell us, not you), if you continue to rampantly lovebust, it doesn't make a difference. For every love unit you are putting in the bank, you are taking out ten with your disrespect and manipulation. She is telling you that. WE are telling you that. I don't understand for the life of me why you want to continue to debate, instead of using information that both your wife and the board are giving you to fix the problems that you yourself came here to fix. Do you want to fix your marriage or not???

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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
As I stated in my original post, my LB set in after years of neglect and abuse as a means of protecting myself.

This is NOT an excuse to lovebust. There are men on the SAA board right now, whose wives are actively and blatantly engaged in affairs. These men are being abused in the most painful of ways. Yet they are making the choice to NOT lovebust their wives regardless of how they are being treated. Lovebusting is a choice. You can choose to do it or not to do it. You are choosing to do it.

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He's not serious about this.

Originally Posted by markos
ij, if you want your wife to follow this program, you need to start SUCCEEDING at following the Love Busters part of the program, IMMEDIATELY. I would get an email out to Dr. Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com RIGHT THIS MINUTE describing the situation to him and asking him for help to eliminate your own Selfish Demands, Disrespectful Judgments, and Angry Outbursts. If you can't stop these or won't stop these, you aren't safe for your wife.

You have got to make some progress on this program right now and stop whining about what your wife is or isn't doing. She is not motivated to follow this program because you are not following this program - you are demanding, disrespectful, and angry.

The fights are like nuclear warfare - everybody loses. Most especially you. You have got to learn how to never have another fight with her again as long as you live no matter what she does.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Quote
1)Affection- we maintained regular contact throughout the day almost everyday and I would touch her affectionately. For years now I have given cards, flowers and gifts for every occasion. Just on Mothers Day I arranged a BBQ at our sons house and gave her a nice card. I bring tea to her in bed almost every morning. 2)Conversation- I was available and took the time for regular conversation almost daily. She could touch base with me anytime she felt a need. 3)Open-Honesty- she always knew what was going on in my life. There was no opportunity for a secret life until most recent years. 4)Financial- she never lost sleep over finances. Our house was paid for, we never moved. She does the books for our business so she always knew exactly where we were at with money. Everything financial was carefully considered jointly. We always maintained a substantial emergency fund. 5)Family- we took regular family vacations yearly, often for a month at a time. In 1999, with 6 children in tow, we camped and traveled around the country 10 months and did a similar trip some years later for 2 months! I fully participated in the home-schooling of our children in ways she approved. Regular family meals were the norm, usually 3x per day.
None of this means anything when you lovebust her and do not spend the minimum of 15 hours dating her. You have set everything you have done back to zero.


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Indianajones, you would really benefit from a discussion with Dr. Harley. He can help you get what you want. Send him your phone # and he may call:

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Originally Posted by Indianajordan
Can anyone explain to me why Harley allows for separation on grounds of persistent and long-term neglect of emotional needs for women and not for men? Are not the effects just as devastating to the marriage?

Have you written Dr. Harley and asked him?
Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.
I posted this to you 3 days ago and you just ignored it.

You may think you've been making all these LB deposits, but even if you were doing a good job you drained them all with all the Love Busters you've committed. Sorry sir, but you've created a HUGE hole in her lovebank.


FWW/BW (me)
WH
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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Indianajones, you would really benefit from a discussion with Dr. Harley. He can help you get what you want. Send him your phone # and he may call:

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

I agree with this. Your first post here addressed Dr. Harley. If you want his direct response, the radio show email address is the way to go.

The forum advice is from people who understand Dr. Harley's concepts and program. Many of us have worked directly with him to solve problems similar to those in your marriage.

Don't waste another minute. Write Dr. Harley. How often can you get help for free, directly from the author of the book? Unheard of. But it's true.

Have you tried listening to the show?

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DQ- I will reply to you point by point. 1)I am not gauging this assessment on feelings, rather on measurable behavior. 2)Do you think healthy marriages are balanced? Harley talks about this concerning conversation. We both employ LB so that is balanced. But in the area of meeting each others needs...? I have not approached this from a sense of entitlement and I am not expecting perfection but I do feel it is reasonable to communicate a desire for greater balance.3) No- I do not feel it is unfair. Holding people accountable is your purpose, I accept that.4)No. While it is true I am feeling neglected and abused, if you refer to my original post, I have no desire to abandon my wife or family. Suggesting a time-limited,agreed upon separation that guarantees 15 hr UA time during a cordial conversation was simply brainstorming possibilities. I thought we were both honestly trying to get a second opinion.It was her idea to ask this forum whether it would be an acceptable plan, in fact, she typed it. 5) I am trying multiple times to respectfully communicate to all of you.

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Indianajones, you would really benefit from a discussion with Dr. Harley. He can help you get what you want. Send him your phone # and he may call:

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Will you email Dr. Harley?


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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Will you email Dr. Harley?

I think this is your best option.


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Originally Posted by Indianajordan
DQ- I will reply to you point by point. 1)I am not gauging this assessment on feelings, rather on measurable behavior. 2)Do you think healthy marriages are balanced? Harley talks about this concerning conversation. We both employ LB so that is balanced. But in the area of meeting each others needs...? I have not approached this from a sense of entitlement and I am not expecting perfection but I do feel it is reasonable to communicate a desire for greater balance.3) No- I do not feel it is unfair. Holding people accountable is your purpose, I accept that.4)No. While it is true I am feeling neglected and abused, if you refer to my original post, I have no desire to abandon my wife or family. Suggesting a time-limited,agreed upon separation that guarantees 15 hr UA time during a cordial conversation was simply brainstorming possibilities. I thought we were both honestly trying to get a second opinion.It was her idea to ask this forum whether it would be an acceptable plan, in fact, she typed it. 5) I am trying multiple times to respectfully communicate to all of you.


Thanks for clearing that up.

We keep suggesting that you email Dr. Harley. And you aren't. I don't get it. Why not, praytell?

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