Yes, but he hasn't finished his task of asking her to stop yet.

If she refuses to stop, or stops stopping, then it becomes a health and safety issue.

I would not agree this issue has crossed the threshold of health and safety until one of those things happened.

You're injecting a great deal of your own feelings into the advice you're giving here. I am simply trying to follow Dr Harley's advice as he wrote it. I would say that today, you have responded to what Dr Harley told MrAlias by pretty much telling MrAlias not to do what he said.

You seem to be against the intervention partly because your ex used one on you for unjustified reasons.

This is not an unjustified reason.

MrAlias's wife is an alcoholic, and Dr Harley has told Mr A to shoot for a complete and permanent cessation of drinking, and also, to consider an intervention.

Please don't try to put him off doing an intervention because you didn't like it when it was done unjustly to you.

I agree with your positions, except that by Mr A's description he hasn't done this yet.

He left it at her wanting to stop drinking after the holidays. He never came back to tell her that wouldn't work for him. He owes her that before an intervention.

She is already an alcoholic, and MrAlias has already asked her to stop drinking. and she has already refused. She has bamboozled (pardon the pun) him with arguments about "controlled drinking", and about her not being an alcoholic, but perhaps only a problem drinker. She has not managed to control her "controlled drinking", and when he recently asked her to stop, she tried to negotiate stopping only temporarily, to prove that she is not an alcoholic - with the intention of resuming immediately the two months is up - and she tried to negotiate starting only after the holidays - so that she can spend another few weeks using her crutch. It is clear that the idea of not drinking at this festive time is something she cannot face, which is a sure sign of her alcoholism.

This negotiating the kind of deal she can cope with is the same behaviour as the person having an affair, who tries to negotiate staying in contact with the affair partner; it's just a friendship, the feelings are not sexual, they are not in love, they can still work together and not jump into the sack together...

You are not helping MrAlias by telling him that the it would be a love buster for him to ask his wife to stop drinking. Their marriage is in crisis, and this is a health and safety issue today, and she needs to stop drinking today.

And just as we do not tell people to wait before exposing the affair to kids, we do not tell them to wait before exposing any other kind of harmful, destructive behaviour. We do not tell them to wait until the wife-beater beats up his wife again, and we do not tell them to wait until the alcoholic drinks again He needs his kids to know that his wife is an alcoholic, regardless of whether she drops drinking this second, or not. He needs their support, and he needs them to be prepared for the intervention that might have to happen.

Well, that is what I said, so why are you arguing with me? I never said to do an intervention without first asking her to stop.

Here is what I said:

We are in full agreement that he needs to ask his wife to stop drinking.

All of my posts have specifically been telling him to ask his wife to stop drinking.

He has been "kicking the can down the road" by not clearly doing so.

The part in red is the only part of your post that I disagreed with.

I don't think it's fair to tell the kids right now that she is an alcoholic when he hasn't finished asking her to stop drinking.

Also, Dr. Harley did not suggest such a step *right now*.

How would his telling his kids that he intends to ask his wife to stop drinking altogether, and that if this does not work, he might need their help, "cloud her desire to work with him"? How would she know?

I did not say to tell the kids and get them to talk to their mother today. I said to tell the kids that he might need them to do this, together with him, soon.

And again, when it comes to the time for the intervention, how would this be "for unjust reasons", as it was in your case? Is trying to get his wife to stop drinking for good an "unjust reason"?

So, if she agrees to stop drinking, there is no need to tell them that she is an alcoholic?

Why would he keep that a secret? Is it Harley advice to keep such a thing secret from our kids? Is it his advice to keep affairs, abuse, or other kinds of marital problems, secret from the kids?

If she stops drinking, is she no longer an alcoholic? Is that why he would not need to tell them? I think you know that she would still be an alcoholic, so why shouldn't her kids know this? Might it not help her for them to know this?

Well, he did not suggest that an intervention would be unjustified, either, but that did not stop you from implying that it would.

I can't post much now because I am swamped at work, but this post frustrates me terribly. Almost as much as the endorsed notion yesterday of stopping for 2 months.. He should tell the kids now. They need to know what is going on. DR Harley is very clear about honesty with families. Additionally, AA advises members to inform family and close friends. I have been in AA for 32 years and there is no benefit to anyone concerned to keep this a secret. Alcoholics are notorious for hiding their drinking problems. It doesn't help her one bit by engaging in the secrecy.

Well, that wasn't exactly what you originally said..you had said to tell them today "she is an alcoholic".

That label to the kids isn't exactly fair to her because he hasn't told yet her that her idea to wait until the holidays are over will not work for him and that he needs her to stop completely.



Dr. Harley did not go as far as to tell him to involve the kids today. He said to consider an intervention.

I think it is wise that he tells her TODAY that he needs her to stop drinking, and if she refuses, to tell the kids TOMORROW this has occurred and he will need their help. Telling them anything prior to his final request is premature.


If she refuses to stop drinking, or stops and then starts up again, then it is not an unjust intervention. At that time she is proving she will chose alcohol over the family and the family deserves to have some say/take action about that.

SC.

Thank you for the 4 point list. I believe you are right on the mark and I will follow through with that advice.

I did say to tell them today that she is an alcoholic, and I stand by that term.

His wife IS an alcoholic, and MrA, his wife AND THE CHILDREN need to face that fact.

She is an alcoholic whether she stops drinking this second, or not.

Why is it premature?

She is an alcoholic.

Why is it premature to tell his kids the truth?

So why mention an "unjust" intervention?

Who told him to do an "unjust" intervention?

Being an alcoholic is not a "label." It is a FACT. if I say I am a girl, that is not a "label," but a statement of fact. Of course he should tell his children the FACTS about their mother.

For what it's worth my W hasn't agreed to stop drinking entirely. Only temporarily after the Holidays. She has not responded to my lastest emails sent yesterday morning.


I reread this and realize my wording sucks. My words tend to have a demeaning tone and it's something I need to work on. However I do believe I've made it crystal clear what I want her to do.

Later on I followed this up with this:

I definitely believe I should talk to my kids about this soon if not right away. My W tried to convince me not to unless I was ready to split but that's just nonsense. I suspect I know the reasons why she'd say that. She'd feel ganged up on.

My timing couldn't be worse what with the Holidays coming up ... although it was the last Holiday (Thanksgiving) that prompted me to say something now. Enough capitulating and ignoring the elephant in the room.

But even you spoke to them today, she would not necessarily know today. I did not suggest that you stage the intervention today. I only said that you should speak to them today. I did not say that they should then speak to her right away after you told them. I specifically suggested only staging the intervention when (if) she refused your request for her to stop altogether - to stop right now (not after the holidays).

Their speaking to her is the intervention, and that needs to handled properly, in the way Dr Harley described in the Q&A letter. He even suggested getting advice from AA on how to do it, and possibly, getting AA to be involved in the event.

An intervention is a staged event, and therefore, requires planning. It isn't just one or more of your kids having a go at your wife.

And thank you for clarifying that you have, indeed, clearly asked your wife to stop drinking altogether, and she has already refused. That is what I gathered from what you have written on this board for some time, and also from what you wrote yesterday. I don't know where the idea came from that you have not articulated your desire for her to stop altogether.

Dr Harley did *not* say to "POJA" this drinking issue. And I don't understand why you would inject your own twist like this on Dr Harley's advice. He is clear in what he said and on his feelings on this topic.

Please Mr Alias, I would advise you to listen to SC and ML. They will not steer you wrong.

Please advise this poster using Marriage Builders principles, not your own experiences or feelings.

Any questions, shoot me an email.