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You've already gotten great advice.

I'm just here to emphasize: Do NOT try to TALK her out of her affair. That will FAIL. That is why Dr Harley does not recommend that or telling your wayward spouse about exposure beforehand.

To repeat: Do NOT discuss exposure or anything on this site with your WW. Do NOT try to talk her out of her affair. Quietly get the evidence (yes, we saw that you know there is conversation going on that she won't quit but you need to see what's in those messages).

Not following this advice will BACKFIRE. Your WS will just take the affair further underground and it will just make fixing your M that much harder.

Why am I repeating myself?? Because many new posters seem to want to skip this step and just "talk" (aka blackmail - I will expose this if you don't stop!!) their WS out of an affair.

That never works.


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Originally Posted by keebler1573
Ok I get where you are coming from but I've already checked her phone and other things and trust me it wouldn't be possible at this time to have a physical relationship with another man but I do know of the emotional affair.

Two things...

1) You really don't know what has transpired between your W and this OM. Every BS who comes here emphatically tells us "nothing physical has happened yet, trust me". It's normal for a BS to want to feel that way.

We however know what happens in affairs, because its SO common and we see the same thing play out over and over again...once feelings reach the romantic threshold, the affairees become irresistible to each other. I would say that more than 90% of people who come here say their WS only had an EA and MOST of the time that turns out to be untrue.

2) Even if this hasn't become physical (which I don't believe for a second) an EA is just as dangerous as a PA.


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Ok so here's the skinny. After some looking into, it appears that they are just friends. But it still bothers me that she won't stop talking to him. She is at the stahe where she has told me she doesn't know if she'll ever love me again. I know that can change but I guess I am going back to my original question, how can I gain her forgiveness for past indiscretions? How can I move her away from concentrating on the hurt and the pain?

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Originally Posted by keebler1573
Ok so here's the skinny. After some looking into, it appears that they are just friends. But it still bothers me that she won't stop talking to him. She is at the stahe where she has told me she doesn't know if she'll ever love me again. I know that can change but I guess I am going back to my original question, how can I gain her forgiveness for past indiscretions? How can I move her away from concentrating on the hurt and the pain?

What kind of snooping did you do to come to this conclusion? Did you put spyware on her phone as suggested? Did you put a VAR in her car as suggested?

Or did you just ask her crazy

People don't leave their spouse or breakup a family for a friend.

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Because I know her. I know him. At this point, I am fairly well convinced there is nothing going on. At this point, I want to figure out how to gain her trust back. How to get her to love me again. She isn't leaving me for him.

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Originally Posted by keebler1573
Because I know her. I know him. At this point, I am fairly well convinced there is nothing going on. At this point, I want to figure out how to gain her trust back. How to get her to love me again. She isn't leaving me for him.

You might know her but you don't know cheaters. WE DO. So you need to follow the advice and start snooping. Nothing we can do until you do that.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by keebler1573
... At this point, I want to figure out how to gain her trust back. How to get her to love me again. She isn't leaving me for him.

Here is what I believe you are not realizing: It doesn't matter if she is having a sexual relationship with him or not. It doesn't matter that she is not thinking "If I divorce my husband I can ride off into the sunset with this guy who just married someone else."

What matters is that she is letting another man fill her love bank (intimate conversation is usually a top emotional need for women) which is currently closed to you, because she is comparing the reality of you to the fantasy of him in her mind. Even if she has no thoughts that she could be with him someday, she is likely thinking "I wish I had married a man like _____ and if I wasn't married to Keebler, I could go find one." Therefore she is not currently open to your attempts to be a better man.

In other words, she probably IS having or has had an affair with this guy, but even if you are 100% correct that they are technically only "friends" - the dynamic you are facing IS the equivalent of an affair.

Now that I've given you that cheery news, I personally am not qualified to advise you on HOW to get her love back, but please listen to the people in here - I read this forum a lot and they know what you need to do. The plan of action for getting your spouse to "trust" you again is very different when dealing with an affair mentality than when dealing with a marriage that has gone south for other reasons.

That is why for now they want to you NOT talk to her about this and get some REAL evidence of EXACTLY what is going down between these two. You need a plan, but you can't make the plan until you know exactly what you are dealing with.

Good luck to you!

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If you are so convinced that nothing is going on, then what is the harm in making sure?

If there is an affair going on (there is), you could jump through a million hoops to save your marriage and it will be like banging your head against a wall. YOU CANNOT FIX YOUR MARRIAGE IF SHE IS IN AN AFFAIR. This is why it would not be very nice of us to advise you to ignore the fact that she is in an affair, just to watch you bang your head against a wall for months until she divorces you.

All we are asking you to do is to snoop and find out the FACTS. "I know her and I know him" is not FACTS. How many people who have had a spouse have an affair thought they knew their spouse, or their friend or coworker who was the OM, and they wouldn't do that? IT DOESN'T MATTER. Every one of us is wired to have an affair in certain situations. It doesn't matter how well you know someone, in the right situation they could have an affair.

You need to rule out an affair FIRST before you do anything else. If you would rather ride the denial train while you bang your head against a wall until she divorces you, I for one do not want to hang around for that. People post here because they have been through this and are more objective and can give advice to save marriages, people post to help others and pay it forward, not to watch people writhe around in pain until they end up divorced.

Listen, all anyone has asked you to do here is to rule an affair out. Put some spyware on her phone or a VAR in her car for a week. Just rule it out. Why are you fighting that step so much? If you are so convinced you won't find anything, what is the harm?


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Ok. The reason I have fought that step is because I dont have a VAR and I don't want to spend money on spyware for something that she is actually pretty open about. She talks to me every night telling me what they've talked about, shows me messages between the two of them and as far as a physical relationship, she is with me all hours of the day when we aren't working and when she isn't working, I am, and he has the same hours as me. That is the facts I have right now. What spyware do you guys recommend that won't break the bank? What exactly is a VAR and where do I get one?

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While it's good she's open to you Keebler the fact of the matter is her love bank is open to this other guy.

How do you feel about her sharing much of herself with another guy? It's ok to say it makes you anxious or you're jealous because you should be if she is allowing this other guy to meet some of her needs.

The reason spying is so important is that if you blow your cover and there is something between them they'll just take their affair further underground. She could be removing the messages or conversations she doesn't want you to see and only showing you the ones that look innocent.

A VAR is a voice activated recorder. They won't break the bank. They are small recording devices that are easily hid, like under a seat in her car.


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Gotcha. I'm not embarrassed to say I am anxious or jealous. I am both of those things. It takes everything I have to not go tell him to back off every single day. I have expressed to her my concern about him several times and she refuses to let him go, even for a short time. I will look into the VAR and will probably get one but what I am most interested in is the spyware. Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by keebler1573
Ok. The reason I have fought that step is because I dont have a VAR and I don't want to spend money on spyware for something that she is actually pretty open about. She talks to me every night telling me what they've talked about, shows me messages between the two of them and as far as a physical relationship, she is with me all hours of the day when we aren't working and when she isn't working, I am, and he has the same hours as me. That is the facts I have right now. What spyware do you guys recommend that won't break the bank? What exactly is a VAR and where do I get one?

She has ample opportunity to have an affair so I don't know what you are taking about. People have sex at work all the time. And one doesn't even have to have sex to have an affair. . She picks and chooses what to show you. You need to see what they do when you aren't looking. A VAR is a voice activated recorder and you can get it at walmart or radio shack. I would get her phone and put webwatcher on it.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by keebler1573
Ok. The reason I have fought that step is because I dont have a VAR and I don't want to spend money on spyware for something that she is actually pretty open about.

Do you want to spend money on a divorce? Because that is where you are headed. I can assure you divorce is far more costly than spyware.

To say she is 'pretty open about' something is putting blind trust in her word. You only know what she tells you. We are telling you to investigate what she ISN'T pretty open about and what you DON'T know.

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
I would get her phone and put webwatcher on it.

x2

If you do this and you get information regarding their affair, send it to yourself and save it, and do not confront her with this. Come back here and we will help you with next steps (exposure).


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Originally Posted by keebler1573
Ok. The reason I have fought that step is because I dont have a VAR and I don't want to spend money on spyware for something that she is actually pretty open about.

We've had plenty of BS's come here knowing that their WS was in a "friendship" and "communicating" with the OP but didn't realize how entrenched their relationship was. That's not uncommon.

That and her showing you the messages is a tactic to "prove" to you that this is just a friendship so that your fears about any affair will be pacified and apparently it worked.


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Originally Posted by keebler1573
It takes everything I have to not go tell him to back off every single day. I have expressed to her my concern about him several times and she refuses to let him go, even for a short time.

Talking to them will not work, I hope you realize that now.

You did not mention exposure to your WW, right?


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No I have not mentioned any of this. I have, in fact, been in contact with the affair partners spouse. She was very thankful to hear what I had to say and I turned her on to this site. I was also very clear about discretion and she agreed with that as well. I can only hope that that helps some while I attempt to collect evidence about the affair.

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When will you be able to install webwatcher?


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Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Well, [censored] hit the fan. The affair partners spouse tried talk about it to him last night and it went exactly as expected. My wife FLIPPED out this morning and kicked me out, told me she wants a divorce and told me she no longer wants to work on it. Then, 2 hours later she is still going to go on a date with me this weekend, go to family events, and hasnt stopped talking to me since.

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This is why The advice was to get the evidence, and then do a full exposure all at once. You did not get evidence and you exposed to one person, and although she is the most important exposure target neither of you have the evidence and now the affairees will simply claim they are just friends and you are crazy and take this further underground.

You really need to stop making decisions based on what you think you know, and instead follow a plan.

Where are you at with spyware? How did she 'kick you out' exactly? I would pack your things and move back in today.

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