Ok, those of you who have seen my other post that "WH says its over...I have soooo given up" WH was supposed to be at 2 wks Army annual training. Well, because they are on Alert they are getting their files ready, making sure everything is in order. So, he gets to go home at night...to the OW of course.

Well, he called me (ironicly after i was leaving my consult w/attorney) and was SO SWEET AND NICE... needed some personal records (shot) that are in our garage. He was asking permission to come and get them. I said its ok. I said and then you can see the girls since you are not going away for 2 weeks. He said they are going day to day on what they are doing.

Well, i had talked to his army superior when he called for him and i said he doesnt live her anymore, he is living w/his girlfriend--having a A. Today the superior and the superiors superior talked to him. They asked him why he is not at home, he said because he had a A and left. They asked his side, he said to them he wasnt happy. They said that he could get in trouble (UCMJ or chapter 13 or something) and that he needs to not do anything rash or at least till the whole Iraq thing blows over. WH begged for them to not do anything that he wants to be promoted. He said that they said to not let the Commander know cuz he is family oriented and will do something to him.

So, he chewed me out for telling them, and the superior said for me to NOT call him about this situation cuz he is not getting involved. That after the Iraq thing if he wants to get the big D then do it, but the superior is against D.

WH went off the wall on me and i just crumbled. NO crying, but i was telling him to stop being so mean...i told him he was the one who said he didnt even want to be friends. I said that he was telling his mom and dad bad things about me. He said they already knew i was manipulative and they have seen it--but arent telling him to leave.. OH please. His mom said to him/as he tells me/that if he is happy then go. I also said that he is the one that started to fight dirty and he is yelling at me. I totally was sounding like a WAAaaaa Waaaa! Saying you are being mean...

OH man... i sounded like a fool. No yelling from me, but he was yelling saying i want to get off the phone w/you Yvonne. I then said, so are we going to resolve this Commander thing... I didnt want to get off and he freaked again saying that if i do anything he will make my life miserable and that i would be a *****. So, he finally said that i will talk to you tommorow when i go get the paper and see the girls. I said will u just call me back. He said yea ill call u. He never did..soooooooooooooooo I CALLED HIM....

He was at "home" as he says. I asked if he was alone and he yelled yes i am alone. This fight was way worse. The little one was in the car and yelled i hate daddy. And he heard, he was soooo angry, telling me i love her tell her that, you better be telling her that. I said i have never told her otherwise. He asked me to ask her (and he is yelling) why she hates him. She said plain as day, "cuz hes with antoinette." He said, " i am not letting a 5 yr old persuade me to go back. I am not going back to you." Then...i asked, Why do u hate me. He said i dont hate you (again the voice) i just want this marriage over and you and the army are delaying things. I have gotten the ball rolling and you have the papers and the Army said to wait. Then i asked, why did you leave me. His answer cuz i wasnt happy. Then i asked.... this one is bad...

What does she do for u....

He said that she does my laundry, she takes care of me physically (that hurt), she takes care of me when i am sick, she makes me laugh, she laughs with me, she laughs at my jokes, we like the same shows.

Wow..writing this is hard. The day b4 he left we were intimate..the day he left he told me i love you in the morning... God i am losing it again...

Thought i was better.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

why did i do what i did. why would i ask such stupid things...things just to hurt me.

i am back down again...just when i felt a little back up the ladder.

Kuljey,
It is unreasonable for your H to expect you to cover for him with his commander. This is a natural consequence of his actions.

Here's an old post with a link inside it about the regs of Military adultery:

Bluebird
Member
Member # 10047

posted December 17, 2001 10:38 AM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was an active du`ty Army officer for 5 years and my SIL is a LTC in the Air Force and is an attorney. The best place to get advice on this issue is from the Staff Judge Advocate General's (JAG) office on base. Adultery is punishable under Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Article 134 simply prohibits conduct which is of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, or conduct which is prejudicial to good order and discipline. The Uniform Code of Military Justice is a federal statute passed by Congress defining adultery to be a crime.
Adultery, as a military offense, is difficult to prosecute (legally) for several reasons. There are three "Elements of Proof" for the offense of Adultery in the Military:

(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;

(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and

(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Element #2 is usually pretty easy for the government to prove. There is normally sufficient written evidence to prove whether or not someone is legally married. (Many folks will be surprised to learn that in the military, a single person can be charged with the crime of adultery).

Element #1 can be very hard to prove. Remember, a court martial (like civilian court) requires *proof* beyond a reasonable doubt. Proof of sexual intercourse normally requires photographs, a confession of one of the parties involved, an eye-witness, or other legally admissible proof. The mere fact that someone stayed over at another individuals house, or even slept with them in the same bed is not proof of sexual intercourse.

Element #3, in many cases, can be the most difficult item to prove. The government must show that the individual's conduct had some direct negative impact on the military. This normally would include cases of fraternization (officer & enlisted) or a relationship with another military member, or a military spouse.

(to read MCM paragraph 60 go here >>> http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/bladulterydefinition.htm )

This officer, be he a LT or an LTC, has received numerous hours of instruction on military justice and standards of conduct. If this officer can't behave in an appropriate manner, then he needs to get out. Being a LT doesn't matter. If he can't have the integrity to keep his fly zipped around married women, what will his integrity be when it comes to making decisions in combat or for the welfare of his troops? It is obvious that this type of selfish, arrogant behavior has no place in military service.

The number of Air Force courts martial for adultery rose from 20 in 1986 to 67 ten years later. Most adultery prosecutions have resulted in guilty verdicts. In addition to the Elements of Proof, the "Explanation" section of paragraph 62 of the Manual for Courts Martial (MCM) now requires that cases of adultery be handled at the lowest appropriate level. This requirement, along with the included list of factors a commander is supposed to use to investigate an allegation of adultery, is fairly new. It was added in 1998 (after the Kelly Flynn case). Partially because of Kelly Flynn, (and possibly because of the Commander-in-Chief's situation with Monica Lewinski), then Secretary of Defense William Cohen spear-headed the change. This means that most cases of alleged adultery will normally be handled by informal, or administrative means, rather than by court martial or article 15 (nonjudicial punishment). Unless, of course, there are extenuating circumstances, such as fraternization or sex with a minor.

This does not mean, however, that service members are free to shack up with whomever they please. Commanders have a lot of discretion when it comes to administrative procedures, and administrative actions (such as reprimands, denial of promotions, performance report remarks, etc.) are not governed by the relatively strict legal requirements of the UCMJ or MCM.

Having been an active duty Army officer, I have no patience or sympathy for anyone in a leadership position behaving in this manner. You are held to high moral and ethical standards when you accept the honor of being commissioned as an officer in the Armed Forces. The Air Force has a mission to accomplish, and when you voluntarily come into the Air Force, you come into it on their terms. You&#8217;re not free to do everything you&#8217;re free to do when you&#8217;re a civilian. You give up a lot of the liberties that civilians enjoy, and that&#8217;s part of what military service entails.

At least the military puts some teeth into punishing adulterers if it is discovered but it can't be discovered if your son does not report it! I certainly think reporting it to the officer's commander is a first step but, wow, you have to have some proof.

Hope this helps,

Bluebird

thanks lor for that info. but he said i would ruin him if i did that to him.

i am more concerned about WHY I AM CONTINUING to call him...ETC... why is he doing this!!!!! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

kuljey:

"He said that she does my laundry, she takes care of me physically (that hurt), she takes care of me when i am sick, she makes me laugh, she laughs with me, she laughs at my jokes, we like the same shows."

She lies to me. I lie to her. She cheats with me and doesn't mind that I have to be dishonest with you to do it. She has no integrity, which is fine with me because I don't have any either. She's very much out for her own selfish needs, which is awesome because I can't think of anything but MY own selfish desires right now.

Sorry for my DJs of your H, but it's true. It's true because it's true of ALL WSs having As. Ask any FWSs on this forum. They'll confirm.

He treats you poorly because he can't go back to his fantasy with good thoughts of you in his head. So he tries to goad you into these arguments so he'll feel vindicated for behaving the way he is.

Nobody but your H is bringing whatever punishment from the military might be coming down on him. It's entirely his behavior that's doing this. I am surprised at his CO, if that's truly what he said. He's not helping, and he's certainly not doing the right thing. The responsible thing.

Take care, you're already getting stronger than you realize,
-Qfwfq

wow, that was so on target. when i read it i think...wow. that is true. i am shaking my head, rattling the brains around saying..wow. they are selfish ppl w/o integrity.

But, Qfwfq, why do i keep taking this crap/verbal beat ups?

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Qfwfq is right - he's goating these arguments so he can walk away after it and feel good about what he's doing. Also, it gives him some more bad things to allow OW to console him about in his awful marriage. Sorry, I'm not saying you or the marriage was/is awful, but I'm telling you how it works from the WS side.

I'm so sorry you are going through this roller coaster. Sweety, stop calling him so much. Let him ponder what he is doing. Yes, whatever happens with the military is his own fault, and don't allow him to threaten you either.

Also, if he brings up what your 5yr. old said, remind him that your child is sad and confused and doesn't know how to express this, so the only way is to say something like "I hate daddy." I have a 5 yr. old son. They don't know the extent of "hate", but that's one of the easiest ways to try to express the turmoil they are feeling inside. At times like that, let your husband be a pompus idiot, and work with your child on finding ways to more accurately express how she feels. I know it's not easy, I can so remember many arguments with my BH that ended with my DS crying about daddy not leaving. It's tough on us all.

I wish I could offer you more. Your husband is creating his own fog to live in, and you need to allow yourself to rise above that. If he chooses to come with you great, but know you are strong enough to do it without him if you need to. My best to you and your girls.

Qfwfq is right - he's goating these arguments so he can walk away after it and feel good about what he's doing. Also, it gives him some more bad things to allow OW to console him about in his awful marriage. Sorry, I'm not saying you or the marriage was/is awful, but I'm telling you how it works from the WS side.

I'm so sorry you are going through this roller coaster. Sweety, stop calling him so much. Let him ponder what he is doing. Yes, whatever happens with the military is his own fault, and don't allow him to threaten you either.

Also, if he brings up what your 5yr. old said, remind him that your child is sad and confused and doesn't know how to express this, so the only way is to say something like "I hate daddy." I have a 5 yr. old son. They don't know the extent of "hate", but that's one of the easiest ways to try to express the turmoil they are feeling inside. At times like that, let your husband be a pompus idiot, and work with your child on finding ways to more accurately express how she feels. I know it's not easy, I can so remember many arguments with my BH that ended with my DS crying about daddy not leaving. It's tough on us all.

I wish I could offer you more. Your husband is creating his own fog to live in, and you need to allow yourself to rise above that. If he chooses to come with you great, but know you are strong enough to do it without him if you need to. My best to you and your girls.

Good to hear from you, Princess!

kuljey: I hope you can "sense" the progress you're already making here. You're having an easier time keeping calm when you talk to your H, though it's far from "easy" to do.

When talking to him about what's happening, just remember that you have every right to tell him how you feel, or how you perceive your D is reacting by what she is saying. When you can do this in a completely calm way, he'll have no choice but to accept that these feelings of hurt on your part and on your D's part, are induced by his behavior. Eventually, this will help him out of the fog. His conscience. What loving father could continue this behavior knowing that it evokes feelings of hatred from his beloved 5-yr old daughter??? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Please take care,
-Qfwfq

WH is on his way to get his papers he needs in our garage. i am so nervous...i am gonna stay in my room.

will update after he leaves!!!

Kul,

qfw's post was dead on.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

KUL human nature is thus that the known...even when crappy is better than the unknown...

so even when you know that if you call him and he verbally attacks you..it is on some level expected and comfortable...

you fear the unknown of really going with no contact because you IMAGINE that he is in a world of bliss and serenity with the OW>...OH POPPYCOCK>>..he's carrying more baggage than the luggage department at Nieman Marcus...

she's twenty something and this guy has children, an exwife, and a WIFE....he has been running and hiding...and he will crash and burn...plus he may get deployed...(God forbid)...think she's gonna hang around and be the rock he needs...

NO WAY...
and THAT my friend is exactly why you need to stop the chaos on your end...

I would pretend he is away for two weeks...and take to weeks to...
two weeks of not being yelled at
two weeks of not being called names
two weeks of not answering the phone
two weeks of YOU not being able to call him
two weeks of not hearing about a divorce kit
two weeks of you getting a plan
two weeks for you to decide what YOU want to do
and two weeks for you to figure out how YOU are going to do it.
two weeks to read up on plan a and different books to help you
two weeks of making your home a serene and safe environment for the blessed children that live there
two weeks on not seeing thinking of OW and two weeks to learn how to not waste one ounce of energy on who she is
two weeks to relax and take care of you
two weeks for you to build upon each day so that when he comes home you never ever again feel the need to pick up the phone and call him just to be yelled at
two weeks for you to think about how you are going to be there for the children to the best of your ability...based on the fact that you are dealing with a man that abandons his 11 year old daughter...leaves her with her step-mom...(KUL that is no reflection on you and capability of nuturing and being the wonderful mom you are to this mans OWN daughter...)..to go play house with a twenty year old twit...and the calls you to try get you to get the eleven year old to thank him for his excuse of a birthday cake....he is acting like a two year old.
two weeks of no fog babble
two weeks of no alien sightings...

sorry for the repeat...but I think you need a time out...

Also think of this...I don't buy for one moment that you can't control yourself from calling him...If I believed that then logically I'd have to believe he can't control his actions when he is with her....ain't buyen it....
You need to role model grown up behavior if that is something you expect from you spouse..

take care...buckle down..and find you..
ARK

wow ark, qfw...you two are so awesome... man. i shake my head when i read, then reread those posts. i even share them w/ppl. they are astounded how dead on you two are.

anyhow. he just left. i helped him find his shot records he needs for army. then i helped him find the girls birth certs and ss#s to make sure in DEERS..(some military main system type deal.)

I had some clothing (that is too big for me) piled on a box of papers. I said he could remove the clothes and look inside the boxes. He left them on the bed, i did not badger or ask to put them up, i did it while he was playing w/the girls. He finally had to look in our closet in this basket that was up high. That is where he foudn the shot records (i had told him to get that basket down to look.) after he found it we high fived. Then we had to find the girls birth certs. I knew where the 5 yr olds was, but the 11 yr old, i could not remember. So i looked in a place where i have important stuff...i overlooked it. He said relook, and it was there. Then i got the tax papers out to write down the 11 yr olds ss# for him. He asked for a big envelope to put the papers in, i told him sure, get one of the big manilla envelopes, you know where they are.

Then he played w/the 5 yr old awhile. The 11 yr old was on the phone..purposely..

Then when he was gonna leave, he knocked on the door and i went out he said he was gonna leave and bring the papers back in a couple of days and will come back to see the girls...and if the 11 yr old needs a ride from soccer on friday he would pick her up and bring her home.

Then i smiled big and said 'your welcome'. Meaning the helping i did. He smiled back and said thank you..and with that he left and said he would call sometime later in the week.

So..how did i do. I tried to stay in my room, but he had to go in there to look in the papers i have in there.. I wanted him to be in there.. LOL. Memories maybe..who knows.

What do ya think?

That is where he foudn the shot records (i had told him to get that basket down to look.) after he found it we high fived.
Of course he gave the high five. If he could NOT produce his shot records, he would have to get ALL of his shots again. We used to roll on the floor when someone forgot theirs. They would be hurtin' for days after.

then i helped him find the girls birth certs and ss#s to make sure in DEERS..(some military main system type deal.)I
Defense Eligibilty EnRollment System. This is his dependents who may eligible for any benefits. You can go here DMDC DEERS Data and check to see who is enrolled. You need his ssn, birthday & last name.

Kuljey,
If your H is, or becomes active duty military, the divorce does not progress. As his spouse, you are also enrolled in DEERS. If you have a military installation near you, or travel to one, you have all sorts of benefits, free medical including prescriptions, you can buy at the commissary & BX or PX (like a Target store).

If he's deployed, you & any kids over age 10 should be issued a dependent card.

I posted that Military Adultery info, not that you should use it, but that you COULD. Information is good, right?

kuljey:

You did absolutely fine!

regards,
♥Qfwfq

bumpin up for those of ya who havent read! thanks.