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Have you read Serial Cheaters and listened to the radio clips?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I just read through your old posts and it is like a cut and pasted version of this one. I am really concerned that you will brush this new affair under the rug like the old ones.

I see your WH posted. He tried to say all the right things and then followed it up at the end with a demand that we post ‘reasonable’ advice to you. I am not surprised that he would see my advice for you to require him to take a polygraph ‘unreasonable.’ Why do you think that is?

Someone paid for a hotel room, on a ‘shoestring budget.’ Yet paying for a poly is unreasonable. Let that sink in.

I also want to point out the fact that you said when asked he generally comes clean. But in your old post you state that he gaslit and trickle truthed you for a decade. Which is it?

I feel with 100% certainty you are being gaslit and that there are things you don’t know about. My unreasonable advice to require him to take a polygraph in order to start recovery following this last known affair stands. There is only one reason he will balk at the idea to do that, and it is because he knows he won’t pass. If he knows he will pass because he has told you everything, he should welcome the opportunity to prove that to you and us. If you can find the money for a hotel room you can find the money to do what your betrayed wife requires to give you yet another chance.

Writer1, you seem to think that we do not care about you and do not support you. We are giving you this advice because we DO care about you and do not want to see you back here again under these circumstances.

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Originally Posted by unwritten
I just read through your old posts and it is like a cut and pasted version of this one. I am really concerned that you will brush this new affair under the rug like the old ones.

I see your WH posted. He tried to say all the right things and then followed it up at the end with a demand that we post ‘reasonable’ advice to you. I am not surprised that he would see my advice for you to require him to take a polygraph ‘unreasonable.’ Why do you think that is?

Someone paid for a hotel room, on a ‘shoestring budget.’ Yet paying for a poly is unreasonable. Let that sink in.

I also want to point out the fact that you said when asked he generally comes clean. But in your old post you state that he gaslit and trickle truthed you for a decade. Which is it?

I feel with 100% certainty you are being gaslit and that there are things you don’t know about. My unreasonable advice to require him to take a polygraph in order to start recovery following this last known affair stands. There is only one reason he will balk at the idea to do that, and it is because he knows he won’t pass. If he knows he will pass because he has told you everything, he should welcome the opportunity to prove that to you and us. If you can find the money for a hotel room you can find the money to do what your betrayed wife requires to give you yet another chance.

Writer1, you seem to think that we do not care about you and do not support you. We are giving you this advice because we DO care about you and do not want to see you back here again under these circumstances.


QFT !!!

Another fantastic (as usual) post unwritten!!!


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Okay.

As far as the polygraph goes, my husband has expressed a willingness to take one. What he meant by "reasonable" was probably more like "affordable." Our current financial status is extremely tenuous. We moved into a more expensive rental house last October to accommodate my father-in-law moving in with us. He was also contributing to the rent. Now that he has had to move into assisted living, we are 100% responsible for the entire amount and we are locked in to a one-year lease, so we can't move. I work for a school district, so I don't get paid during the summer. Our monthly expenses exceed our income until I return to work in a couple of weeks. The nearest place that offers polygraph testing in our area is 50 miles away and charges $400. That's our monthly food budget. We have no savings, no credit, and simply don't have the ability to do that at the moment.

The hotel room was a cheap room, and she paid for half of it. I'm not saying I'm okay with my husband paying anything for that considering our situation, but most people who are involved in active affairs do stupid things they shouldn't do. That's the definition of an affair. I know I certainly did a lot of things I'm ashamed of now during my affair. My husband has expressed remorse and regret for his actions, but he can't go back in time and change them.

During my husband's EA, no I didn't know what was going on for a long time. But I didn't ask either. When I finally started sensing something was wrong and I started to suspect there was more than a mere friendship between my husband and his ex-girlfriend and I started to question him, he did answer my questions honestly. It just took me a long time to figure out she was more than a "family friend" since most of the time, when we saw her, we were all together - me, my husband, our kids, her kids, her husband. They weren't doing things alone together. My husband has never been one to go off and do things by himself, or even with other guy friends. We've always done things as a couple or a family. But they were communicating via phone and email and I didn't know about that, or know to ask about it. Once I started asking, he told me the truth. He even went to our church leadership and confessed, though we have since left that church.

I really don't think there is anything else I don't know about. My husband was very specific and very thorough in answering all of my questions. His story has been very consistent and has included a detailed timeline. Lying almost always involves inconsistencies. I don't know what else to say here. My husband and I have thoroughly discussed everything. We are reading the MB books. He is answering all of my questions. He is giving me access to all of his accounts and devices. He is spending every minute of every day with me, other than when he is at work. He even calls me from work 2-3 times a day and texts when he's on his way home. His work phone and email are heavily monitored by his employer and he would get fired for using his work devices for personal communication. He isn't allowed to use his cell phone at all at work except during break or lunch. My husband has done everything I have asked of him and more, willingly, of his own accord. I haven't asked him to do a polygraph because it simply isn't possible right now.

I came back here for help in dealing with specific issues that I am personally grappling with including:

1. Feelings of inadequacy. His OW was 14 years younger than me, so I've been feeling very insecure about my age and physical attractiveness. This isn't coming from my husband at all, by the way. He is constantly telling me how beautiful I am and how, when he finally met the OW, he didn't find her attractive. She was heavier than her FB pictures even though she recently lost 100 lbs. I am thin (136 lbs.), fit, and walk 3-5 miles a day. But I'm still feeling insecure and I would like some advice on that.

2. Mental images. I am having a very difficult time getting the mental pictures of my husband and this woman together out of my head, especially when we are intimate. I would love some advice on how to deal with that.

3. Coping with depression and anxiety. These are things I've been struggling with. It's probably natural to feel that way after your world has been turned upside down, and depression is something I've struggled with in the past, especially during my affair. But just because it's normal doesn't mean it's easy.

4. Rebuilding trust in our relationship. Not blind trust, but the trust but verify kind of trust.

5. Figuring out what my EN's are. I've been struggling with this lately. I was very shut-off from my husband prior to his affair. I wasn't meeting his EN's and he wasn't meeting mine. In fact, it has been so long since we've attempted to do that and now I've sort of lost track of what my EN's even are. My husband and I had basically become roommates prior to his affair. It is something we've been working very hard to correct since D-day. But I'm having a difficult time articulating my own needs, even in my own head. My husband has been doing his best to meet my EN's and give me everything I need, but it would probably be easier for him if I could figure out what those are.

Last edited by writer1; 08/02/19 01:18 PM.

Me: BS/FWW: 48
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DD: 28
OC: 10
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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you read Serial Cheaters and listened to the radio clips?


What I'm trying to figure out is, does one EA that yes, lasted a very long time but has basically been over for 15 years, except for one instance of contact between my husband and his ex-girlfriend about two years ago that involved a phone call that lasted a couple of minutes and an email, and one EA/PA that lasted less than a total of 3 weeks, constitute a "serial cheater" over the course of an almost 26-year marriage? I don't know the answer to that, but when I read the material on serial cheating, none of it sounds like my situation.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
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OC: 10
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1) Glow up. Take care of yourself. Take. A. Shower. Start doing evening walks. This is an excellent, and free, UA time opportunity.
2) Time. Redirection. Reclamation.
3) See the doc, check into Welbutrin r/t not being an SSRI and not having sexual side effects, which you will not want to deal with while rebonding. Do those evening walks, get some sunshine. Get a hormone panel and vitamin D level check.
4) You know how to do this.
5) You also know what to do here; 20+ hours of UA time each week meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs.

These things have not changed in your inactive years. They have not changed in my inactive years.

I fully appreciate the struggle of trying to care for aging family - we have my in-laws here, and my mother-in-law has a chronic autoimmune disease. My mom is now in her 70's and single, and I'm the only child in the state too look after her.

But, Writer, your story just doesn't seem to change. It appears you are so comfortable with the certainty of misery, and so afraid of the misery of uncertainty, that your problems have become the reason you can't solve your problems.

I get it. My marriage has seen some Shiitake mushrooms, too. But the greatest turn around was putting our marriage ahead of everything else. Period. We can thrive broke, homeless, and eating out of dumpsters so long as our marriage is strong. That has been the lesson of this program THE WHOLE TIME.

When that is a goal realized, you will NEVER COME TO REGRET THAT.


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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Originally Posted by writer1
What he meant by "reasonable" was probably more like "affordable."

Please don't interpret your husband's words for us. He made that statement; let him explain what he meant. Don't try to minimise or defend his nonsense - you are not helping him, and he does not need you to help him on this forum.

We're trying to support you both in your desire to (re)build your marriage. Leave us to call him out when he needs it.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane

Please don't interpret your husband's words for us. He made that statement; let him explain what he meant. Don't try to minimise or defend his nonsense - you are not helping him, and he does not need you to help him on this forum.

We're trying to support you both in your desire to (re)build your marriage. Leave us to call him out when he needs it.


Not interpreting his words. He told me that is what he meant. He was helping me research polygraphs, but right now, we can't even afford the gas to get to a testing center, let alone the actual cost of the test. I haven't read his thread, other than his original post, which he wanted to read to me before he posted it. I listened, but I didn't offer any input or changes. I want him to be able to express his own thoughts and feelings without interference.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
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OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
1) Glow up. Take care of yourself. Take. A. Shower. Start doing evening walks. This is an excellent, and free, UA time opportunity.
2) Time. Redirection. Reclamation.
3) See the doc, check into Welbutrin r/t not being an SSRI and not having sexual side effects, which you will not want to deal with while rebonding. Do those evening walks, get some sunshine. Get a hormone panel and vitamin D level check.
4) You know how to do this.
5) You also know what to do here; 20+ hours of UA time each week meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs.

These things have not changed in your inactive years. They have not changed in my inactive years.

I fully appreciate the struggle of trying to care for aging family - we have my in-laws here, and my mother-in-law has a chronic autoimmune disease. My mom is now in her 70's and single, and I'm the only child in the state too look after her.

But, Writer, your story just doesn't seem to change. It appears you are so comfortable with the certainty of misery, and so afraid of the misery of uncertainty, that your problems have become the reason you can't solve your problems.

I get it. My marriage has seen some Shiitake mushrooms, too. But the greatest turn around was putting our marriage ahead of everything else. Period. We can thrive broke, homeless, and eating out of dumpsters so long as our marriage is strong. That has been the lesson of this program THE WHOLE TIME.

When that is a goal realized, you will NEVER COME TO REGRET THAT.


Thank you for the suggestions. I actually have been doing some of this without even realizing it might help. My husband and I have been taking lots of walks alone together. We live right next to a very lovely and peaceful cemetery. We've been walking there most days and often just sitting on a bench talking. I've never been on antidepressants, but I do know people who have taken Welbutrin. It's good to know there are some without sexual side effects. Does this one have weight gain issues? I know many of them do. Definitely focusing on lots of EA time meeting the four intimate emotional needs, which I think really does help, even if some of them are not my top EN's. I'm just also trying to figure which EN's really are most important to me, and maybe right now, the answer to that question is the intimate EN's, since those are the ones that help build and strengthen a marriage the most.

I do agree that a strong marriage is the most important thing, which is why it is our primary focus. But I have to admit, I find the possibility of homelessness rather terrifying, especially since we have a 10-year-old. We also live in a town that, while small, has a rather large homeless population that is afflicted with substance abuse, mental disorders, and violence. We've had 5 murders in our town since March, and several non-fatal shootings. It's hard to feel safe here these days, which is why my husband is actively seeking employment out of state, hopefully somewhere more affordable than California.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Please remind me, didn’t you write Dr. Harley on the show before?

Why not write him?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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I was on the radio show two years ago, when my husband contacted his ex-girlfriend via text/phone. We are actually planning on contacting the Harley’s again. I’m wondering, if we can be on the radio show again, if it might help if my husband talk to them this time?


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https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/...018/my-thread-on-mb-101.html#Post2390018

Originally Posted by writer1
I know this forum gets more traffic, so I wanted to put this out there. Even if you haven't been following my thread (Tossed on the Waves) in MB 101 about the legal problems with my son, I could really use some help. I'm dealing with a spouse who has violent, uncontrolled outbursts and I don't know what to do about it anymore. This has been a problem throughout my entire M, and another incident involving my 18 year old son and H happened last night, in front of the baby and our other kids. If anyone who has dealt with this could please read my latest post, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Is this still a problem? You posted this in 2010, has he followed an anger management program?

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Originally Posted by goody2shoes
https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/...018/my-thread-on-mb-101.html#Post2390018

Originally Posted by writer1
I know this forum gets more traffic, so I wanted to put this out there. Even if you haven't been following my thread (Tossed on the Waves) in MB 101 about the legal problems with my son, I could really use some help. I'm dealing with a spouse who has violent, uncontrolled outbursts and I don't know what to do about it anymore. This has been a problem throughout my entire M, and another incident involving my 18 year old son and H happened last night, in front of the baby and our other kids. If anyone who has dealt with this could please read my latest post, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Is this still a problem? You posted this in 2010, has he followed an anger management program?


No, this has not been an issue for a long time. In fact, my husband has never so much as spanked our 10-year-old and neither have I, though it was a discipline method we used infrequently when our older kids were growing up. Most of the issues occurred between my husband and our three sons when they were teenagers, especially our now 25-year-old, who had ADHD and oppositional behavior disorder and was extremely difficult to deal with, both at home and at school. Also, my husband has never hit me or physically harmed me in any way. He is completely in control of his temper now and has been for years. In fact, my father-in-law, who has dementia, had several outbursts while he was living with us and tried to physically attack my husband and he was still able to remain in control (though they did have quite a few heated verbal exchanges). This really isn't a concern at all anymore.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
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Today it has been exactly one-month since D-day. I am prepared for a difficult day, even though we are doing well. We filled out the EN questionnaire again a few days ago and that really helped me sort out what my EN’s are. Still spending lots of UA time together, which has been very helpful. I still have bouts of anxiety and depression, though I’m not really sure how to differentiate between the two sometimes. I think it is getting better, but I know it will take time. My husband has been very loving and supportive and willing to do anything I ask, which helps. Right now, I’m just taking things one day at a time and trying to give myself time to heal. Patience has never been my strong point, but I am working on that as well.

My husband is going to contact the Harley’s directly and see what happens. If we are chosen to be on the radio show again or if they choose to read his letter and answer his question, I will post the information about the broadcast here in case anyone wants to listen.

I did read the Serial Cheater article and my husband does not meet the criteria at all. He sounds much more like the person Dr. Harley describes that has a second affair because of an incomplete recovery from a prior affair and failure to establish proper boundaries. It seems that Dr. Harley believes that marriages can very much recover after a repeat affair of this type, especially if both partners are willing to follow MB principles, especially POJA and radical honesty, which is what we are focusing on.


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I have been here for quite a while. Forum members who recover ( personal recovery or marital recovery) have a tendency to read old threads non stop.
Others read their own thread again and again to re-read the advice given.

Your WH has not logged in for 4 days. That tells me something and for now, I'm not too happy about your chances.

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Originally Posted by goody2shoes
I have been here for quite a while. Forum members who recover ( personal recovery or marital recovery) have a tendency to read old threads non stop.
Others read their own thread again and again to re-read the advice given.

Your WH has not logged in for 4 days. That tells me something and for now, I'm not too happy about your chances.


He hasn’t logged on to the forum, but he has been on the MB site. I read the article about Serial Cheaters to him and we discussed that. We’ve been reading about EN’s and we filled out the questionnaire this week and discussed that. We’re also reading through several of Dr. Harley’s books. My husband has stated that he finds many of those resources more useful than posting on the forum. Also, he works during the week and we spend a lot of our time when he gets home focusing on UA and family time.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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Has he written Dr. Harley yet?


FWW/BW (me)
WH
2nd M for both
Blended Family with 7 kids between us
Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Has he written Dr. Harley yet?


Working on it now.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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It's been two months since D-Day and we are doing pretty well. Spending lots of UA time together, doing a good job of meeting EN's, spending all of our free time together when we aren't at work. My husband has been doing a good job with POJA and radical honesty and has been very patient and caring and loving.

The one thing I'm still struggling with the most is the mental images of him with his affair partner, which happen mostly when we are intimate. We've been doing an excellent job meeting the need for SF (something we weren't doing before his affair), but every time we are intimate, I am still plagued by mental images, which take me out of the moment and cause me a great deal of emotional pain. I know this will likely fade with time, but I am wondering if there is anything I can do to address the problem in the meantime? Has Dr. Harley specifically addressed this issue? I searched through the articles and letters, but I can't seem to find much on this particular topic.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
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How many hours UA a week do you schedule? Do you hit the 15 hour mark every week? What are your top 3 EN and are they met?

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