Marriage Builders®
Posted By: writer1 My husband had another affair - 07/31/19 11:01 PM
I'm not sure how many people are still around who remember me. This is writer1. A lot of my story is probably on here somewhere for those who care to find it.

Brief recap: I found Marriage Builders about ten years ago after my affair that resulted in the birth of my OC. My husband and I reconciled and have been raising my OC together since she was born. The OM has never met her and I have had no contact with him for ten years. My husband was involved in an EA (with some physical contact but not sex) with his ex-girlfriend for roughly the first ten years of our marriage. I didn't know most of what was going on between them during that time, though her family and my family were "friends." I came back about two years ago, when my husband briefly reached out to this ex-girlfriend and expressed the fact that he still had feelings for her. We talked to the Harley's at this time and I was on the radio show. I am very familiar with MB and my husband and I have read many of the books, but we haven't always done a very good job of following the program consistently.

Well, I'm back for the worst possible reason. Three weeks ago tomorrow, I received a message from a woman I'd never met before telling me that she'd had an affair with my husband. When I confronted him about it, he admitted the entire thing. I was absolutely devastated. They'd met online in mid-June, quickly entered into an emotional affair, and eventually met up in a hotel on two consecutive days for sex (she lives four hours away and drove up for the encounter). She contacted me a week later when my husband tried to break it off with her and she got angry. He immediately ended all contact with her that day and has really been doing everything right ever since. He deactivated his FB account (they met on FB). I've had complete access to his phone, computer, and accounts since then and am pretty sure there has been no contact. My husband says he has absolutely no desire to ever contact her again. Other than work, he has not gone anywhere without me since I discovered the affair. We've been reading Surviving an Affair (again). My husband says he loves me very much and that he is willing to do anything possible to save our marriage. He says he has no desire to contact the OW and doesn't seem to be suffering through any symptoms of withdrawal. Their relationship was very short, so I suppose this makes sense. We've been spending all of our time together, talking openly and honestly, being close, reading, spending vast amounts of UA time together, etc.

I admit, I'm still struggling with it all. I'm better than I was a few weeks ago, but it is still so difficult to believe we've ended up here again. I've been suffering from physical symptoms of stress including an inability to eat or sleep and general feelings of anxiety and depression. I am also struggling massively with mental images of my husband and this woman (who is 14 years younger than I am). I feel incredibly insecure and just generally like my entire universe has been tipped upside down.

I want my marriage to emerge from this stronger and better than it has ever been before. Ten years ago, after my affair, MB helped me realize just how destructive and painful affairs can be, for everyone involved, and I resolved that I never wanted infidelity to be a part of my life again. I thought my husband felt the same way. He has really been beating himself up over what happened. He has expressed deep remorse for his actions and really seems to honestly want to get our marriage on the right track. I love my husband with all my heart. I believe him when he says he loves me. The past three weeks, we've been closer and more open than we've been in years. But I know that, at this point, we have a very narrow path to recovery and we can't afford to stray from it at all.

I don't have any specific questions at the moment, other than maybe: Am I absolutely crazy for attempting to go through recovery again? Maybe that's rhetorical. I'm not sure. We've been married almost 26 years and I can't imagine my life without my husband. I think what I really need is support and just help dealing with all of the feelings I'm having. For some reason, this feels so much different and worse than anything we've gone through in the past. I just hurt. Everywhere.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 07/31/19 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
I'm not sure how many people are still around who remember me. This is writer1. A lot of my story is probably on here somewhere for those who care to find it.

Brief recap: I found Marriage Builders about ten years ago after my affair that resulted in the birth of my OC. My husband and I reconciled and have been raising my OC together since she was born. The OM has never met her and I have had no contact with him for ten years. My husband was involved in an EA (with some physical contact but not sex) with his ex-girlfriend for roughly the first ten years of our marriage. I didn't know most of what was going on between them during that time, though her family and my family were "friends." I came back about two years ago, when my husband briefly reached out to this ex-girlfriend and expressed the fact that he still had feelings for her. We talked to the Harley's at this time and I was on the radio show. I am very familiar with MB and my husband and I have read many of the books, but we haven't always done a very good job of following the program consistently.

Well, I'm back for the worst possible reason. Three weeks ago tomorrow, I received a message from a woman I'd never met before telling me that she'd had an affair with my husband. When I confronted him about it, he admitted the entire thing. I was absolutely devastated. They'd met online in mid-June, quickly entered into an emotional affair, and eventually met up in a hotel on two consecutive days for sex (she lives four hours away and drove up for the encounter). She contacted me a week later when my husband tried to break it off with her and she got angry. He immediately ended all contact with her that day and has really been doing everything right ever since. He deactivated his FB account (they met on FB). I've had complete access to his phone, computer, and accounts since then and am pretty sure there has been no contact. My husband says he has absolutely no desire to ever contact her again. Other than work, he has not gone anywhere without me since I discovered the affair. We've been reading Surviving an Affair (again). My husband says he loves me very much and that he is willing to do anything possible to save our marriage. He says he has no desire to contact the OW and doesn't seem to be suffering through any symptoms of withdrawal. Their relationship was very short, so I suppose this makes sense. We've been spending all of our time together, talking openly and honestly, being close, reading, spending vast amounts of UA time together, etc.

I admit, I'm still struggling with it all. I'm better than I was a few weeks ago, but it is still so difficult to believe we've ended up here again. I've been suffering from physical symptoms of stress including an inability to eat or sleep and general feelings of anxiety and depression. I am also struggling massively with mental images of my husband and this woman (who is 14 years younger than I am). I feel incredibly insecure and just generally like my entire universe has been tipped upside down.

I want my marriage to emerge from this stronger and better than it has ever been before. Ten years ago, after my affair, MB helped me realize just how destructive and painful affairs can be, for everyone involved, and I resolved that I never wanted infidelity to be a part of my life again. I thought my husband felt the same way. He has really been beating himself up over what happened. He has expressed deep remorse for his actions and really seems to honestly want to get our marriage on the right track. I love my husband with all my heart. I believe him when he says he loves me. The past three weeks, we've been closer and more open than we've been in years. But I know that, at this point, we have a very narrow path to recovery and we can't afford to stray from it at all.

I don't have any specific questions at the moment, other than maybe: Am I absolutely crazy for attempting to go through recovery again? Maybe that's rhetorical. I'm not sure. We've been married almost 26 years and I can't imagine my life without my husband. I think what I really need is support and just help dealing with all of the feelings I'm having. For some reason, this feels so much different and worse than anything we've gone through in the past. I just hurt. Everywhere.

Hello again, Writer. I'm so sorry to hear about this.

How did they meet on FB? I've never been on it, but how does one meet a complete stranger on there? I know that friend requests are sent, but how did the initiator know to send the request to the other person? Wouldn't there have to be a common interest to begin with? How did she know his name, or he hers?

Also, it doesn't sound AT ALL credible that this woman would drop her knickers for sex with a complete stranger whom she knew was married (she must have known, because she outed him to you) and then throw a hissy fit when he wants to stop. Why not "easy come easy go"? She hit back at him because they had a lot more than 2 nights in a hotel as near-strangers, I think. Other Women do not blackmail married men for as little as that. I strongly suspect that there was a lot more to their relationship than he has told you.

Indeed, for that matter, why did he want to stop? If they were able to have two days of sex (and where were you? How did he get away with that?), why wouldn't he just look forward to the next time?

In other words, I wonder if you have the full story here. It doesn't hang together for me.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 07/31/19 11:33 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
They'd met online in mid-June, quickly entered into an emotional affair, and eventually met up in a hotel on two consecutive days for sex (she lives four hours away and drove up for the encounter).

If he was able to have sex for two days with another woman, with the certainty that you would have no idea about it, he is perfectly capable of having a means of contact still today that you know nothing about.

I take it he was supposed to be at work when he was at the hotel, and that you have no idea whom he contacts, or how, from work.

Originally Posted by writer1
I don't have any specific questions at the moment, other than maybe: Am I absolutely crazy for attempting to go through recovery again?

Yes, you are absolutely crazy to attempt this again with a man who has been reaching out to other women for affairs through so much of your marriage, and twice recently, and who tells you such a half-baked story about this last affair.

The only way you should attempt recovery is with a life-change that makes more affairs impossible; such as his retiring from his job and being at home with you full-time.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 07/31/19 11:37 PM
Hi SugarCane! A familiar name.

My husband sent her a friend request on FB because she was someone he had a few friends in common with. She lives in the town we used to live in and was once married to someone from our old church, though my husband says he didn't know her before and I didn't recognize her from her photos. When he was on FB, he would friend pretty much anyone he had any kind of connection with, so that part wasn't really unusual for him. He had hundreds of friends, most people he didn't know in real life.

What he's told me about the affair is that they originally started communicating because she had recently removed herself from the records of our old church (Mormon) and posted about it on FB. My husband and I are ex-Mormons too, so he commented on that. She started private messaging him, platonic at first, then asking questions about if he was married or not, and if so, happily or not? The private messaging eventually became texting when he gave her his phone number and then talking on the phone. After about two weeks, she suggested she come up to meet up with him in person to see if they were "compatible." She made the hotel reservation and he told me he was going to attend a retirement party for a co-worker so he could meet her there after work. He spent about four hours in the hotel with her that day and then returned early the next morning for a quick meet-up (45 minutes or so) before going to work. I didn't know he'd left earlier than usual since I was asleep.

After the meeting, my husband figured out pretty quickly that he didn't want to continue in the relationship. Apparently (and I won't get too graphic here) things didn't go the way he'd thought they might on a physical level. Within days, he was trying to break off the relationship. When he finally told her he didn't think it was a good idea for them to see each other again and that he didn't see the relationship going anywhere, she contacted me the next morning and dropped the bomb.

In all fairness, my husband has said many times that he has no idea what he was thinking or how things progressed so quickly. She seems to have been the aggressor and the one most interested in propelling the relationship forward. He seems utterly aghast over what happened and has even stated that he feels "violated" though I'm not sure why, since he clearly went to the hotel willingly. He seems very disgusted with himself. I strongly suspect that, for him at least, it was very much a sexual thing. Our marriage has been struggling and distant for awhile and it had been months since the last time we had sex. I'm not making excuses for him. But he does seem genuinely confused regarding how he allowed himself to enter into this situation.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 07/31/19 11:49 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
My husband sent her a friend request on FB because she was someone he had a few friends in common with. She lives in the town we used to live in and was once married to someone from our old church, though my husband says he didn't know her before and I didn't recognize her from her photos. When he was on FB, he would friend pretty much anyone he had any kind of connection with, so that part wasn't really unusual for him. He had hundreds of friends, most people he didn't know in real life.

That wouldn't cut it for me, I'm afraid. He sent her a friend request? He was trolling for action, in my view.

And if he was on FB friending people he had any kind of connection with (whoever initiated it), and had hundreds of "friends", then his interests were there instead of in your marriage and with you. What married man, father of a 10-year-old, with a full-time job and other (grown-up) kids and step-kids, has the time to be on FB, unless he makes that time by checking out from you?
Posted By: unwritten Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 04:10 AM
I am sorry to say Writer that I agree with SugarCane.

Many red flags go up in this story indicating to me that your WH is a serial cheater out trolling for action. For one, with the infidelity you have experienced and the fact that you are students of Marriage Builders, why did you not have EP’s in place? Why does he have an unchecked Facebook account, or one at all for that matter, where he was able to connect with someone without your knowledge?

You realize that it is not common to reach out to someone who ‘lives in a town we used to live in and was once married to someone from our old church.’ In the early days of social media, I think it was more common to friend anyone, but now it is not common at all. The only reason people reach out to someone who they have almost no connection at all with, or accept a friendship with the same, is to ‘connect’ if you know what I mean. That is exactly what he was doing. Why would he care what someone he has never met is doing in her life, enough to watch her posts on social media? He wouldn’t. That is not the reason he friended her.

I’m sorry to say he is trolling. Based on this and his history, I think it is safe to assume this is not the first time he has trolled, and I would frankly question how much of what he does you really know about (especially given the lack of transparency that allowed this happen already).

You have been through a lot already. He is educated, on the pain and devastation of affairs, how to avoid them, MB, etc. He actively chose to do this despite being educated. You cannot safeguard yourself against someone who is actively choosing to cheat. I would be done with this marriage.

If you are not willing to leave for this, I would at least ask him to take a polygraph to prove that you are making a decision with all the information in hand. I am going to bet money you are not, and if you find out the truth, maybe then it will be easier to be done.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 02:01 PM
I will start out by saying that I acknowledge that the situation is very difficult to comprehend. My husband acknowledges this too.

He has been very forthright about answering all of my questions, thoroughly and in detail, complete with a specific timeline of how their relationship unfolded, which is why I believe he is telling the truth. Also, I've known him a long time and I know how to read him. While my husband has a tendency to hide things from me, he isn't necessarily very good at it. I had a sense something was going on, though I didn't know exactly what. Also, in the past, whenever I've asked him direct questions about incidents, he has told the truth. He doesn't usually lie to direct questions. Once his past indiscretions were brought to the light of day, he was very open about talking about them.

As far as MB goes, my husband was familiar with the program and this site back when I was posting here before, but he never really wanted to follow the program. We had read some of the materials together and filled out some of the questionnaires, but I wouldn't say he knew as much about MB as I did, not by a long shot. So we never really followed the program. In fact, he grew to resent my posting here because he thought I'd become too emotionally invested and that it was preventing me from fully healing from my own betrayal. And he might have been right. I was spending a lot of time on MB, responding to a lot of posts, and it was taking a lot of my time and attention. That's one reason I stopped.

My husband definitely has a history of being unfaithful, though this is the first time he has had a sexual affair in almost 26 years of marriage. He definitely had poor boundaries when it came to FB. Both of us were spending entirely too much time there. He was the one who deactivated his account without my even asking. He did have a wide network of friends on there. He told me he originally friended this woman because they had two friends in common who used to go to church with us and he saw that she had posted a letter showing her recent resignation from the church on her page. My husband also recently resigned from the church, so he sent her a friend request and then commented on her photo about her leaving the church. She was the one who started private messaging him after that and he responded. I'm not saying this is okay and neither is my husband, but it's what happened, and he has taken the steps to ensure it doesn't happen again.

For now, I am committed to seeing if my marriage can be saved. That's what my husband wants too. I believe him when he says that. I can see the anguish and pain this has caused him and his remorse feels real and genuine. I've also set up my own boundaries and let him know that I am unwilling to put up with any more lies or deceit. If I find out he is being untruthful, I am prepared to move directly to Plan B. If this happens again, I will leave and never look back. He knows this and accepts those terms. I hope it doesn't come to that. I'm doing my part to assure it doesn't. I'm monitoring all of his technology for any signs of contact and I'm not finding anything. Other than work, he hasn't gone anywhere without me. He calls me from work on his breaks and lunch and is home within 15 minutes of getting off work. He hasn't been spending any time on his phone or computer at home other than filling out job applications and checking email, and he does that in my full view so I can monitor that as well. We've been talking openly and honestly for the first time in a long time, even about hard stuff.

My husband seems much more open to MB now. He's reading the books with me, discussing love busters and emotional needs and filling out the questionnaires. I even asked if he would be willing to post here and he said that he would. I still have hope for my marriage. It is cautious hope, but it is hope. I love my husband very much. I think my marriage is worth fighting for. I came back here because I could really use the help and support of a community of people who have been where I am now.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 04:27 PM

All the same advice applies from your last thread:

https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php/topics/2899689/1.html
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 05:08 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
I will start out by saying that I acknowledge that the situation is very difficult to comprehend. My husband acknowledges this too.


Your situation can be very complicated or not - the MB tools to recover from an affair are pretty straightforward regardless.

If your spouse is a serial cheater, it is that much more important to follow every single MB principle to the letter. With a serial cheater, not only do you have to follow MB tools like UA time, but you MUST follow stringent EPs and you MUST monitor the serial cheater. For life.

Many of us knew in the last thread that you were heading for more trouble when it seemed like pretty straightforward things like changing a phone number and getting in UA time were not being followed.

This isn't necessarily for you, writer. You've been here long enough, and if you haven't implemented MB into your M, then I don't think it's going to happen.

I'm writing this for the people who may be reading who think they can cut corners and that just having a "willing" WS (who doesn't actually do anything other than say they are willing) will get you more of the same...more affairs and more pain. You would be better off going to Plan B/D.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 05:14 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
My husband seems much more open to MB now. He's reading the books with me, discussing love busters and emotional needs and filling out the questionnaires. I even asked if he would be willing to post here and he said that he would.


You said he was "willing" to do MB too last time.

I told you then, when serial cheaters get caught will agree to everything under the sun. It really means NOTHING if the actions don't back up their words.

Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by writer2
but my husband has expressed a willingness to go through the MB program with me, so I feel like that is a good sign.

But it's not. Serial offenders and waywards who don't want a divorce have no problem agreeing to everything and then when it gets down to the nitty gritty the waffling and excuses start.

Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
He has been very forthright about answering all of my questions, thoroughly and in detail, complete with a specific timeline of how their relationship unfolded, which is why I believe he is telling the truth. Also, I've known him a long time and I know how to read him. While my husband has a tendency to hide things from me, he isn't necessarily very good at it.


This was my serial cheater X as well. He would answer all my questions, cry when he got caught, agree to everything under the sun including taking a poly.

MarriageBuilders does not promote "talking" to a wayward to determine if you are getting the full truth.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 05:53 PM
Hi SusieQ.

I understand your skepticism.

My husband was not willing to do MB last time, not the right way at least. But so far, he has been willing to do everything I have asked of him this time. I'm not sure what else he can do at this point. He has said at least a hundred times that if he could just turn back the clock and make a different choice, he would do so in a heartbeat. But in the absence of that possibility, he is doing everything he can to help me heal and to fix our marriage. That's all I can ask. I'm the one here, seeing his reactions and his willingness to correct past mistakes. I'm the only one in a position to make a judgement about my husband's sincerity and love and willingness to do the right thing. And I believe he sincerely and honestly wants to do that.

I'm sure a lot of people will tell me it's hopeless. I don't think the Harley's would. I know they've helped others deal with repeat affairs in the past. I also don't consider my husband a "serial cheater" since he's only had two affairs in almost 26 years of marriage, the long-term on/off EA with his ex-girlfriend and the latest affair with a woman he only knew a few weeks. I don't know what constitutes "serial cheater" vs. someone who made the same mistake twice (and many years apart), but I do think there is a difference.

Our marriage wasn't in a good place when my husband's affair occurred. We weren't meeting each other's needs or spending enough UA time together. We were fighting and engaging in love busters galore. We were dealing with life stresses including fairly serious money problems and caring for my elderly father-in-law who has COPD and moved in with us last October. We are now working on correcting those issues. We are filling out the questionnaires, learning how to meet each other's needs, eliminating love busters, spending ample UA time together. My father-in-law has moved into assisted care, where he should have been all along.

Again, my intention is to try to save my marriage and make it stronger, healthier, and happier than it has ever been. If I can't get support for that on the forum, then so be it. I still think the MB program, website, and books have a lot to offer us and we intend to continue working through this together. If it ends in divorce anyway, then at least I will know I gave it everything I've got and I won't have any regrets looking back.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
Again, my intention is to try to save my marriage and make it stronger, healthier, and happier than it has ever been. If I can't get support for that on the forum, then so be it.

We are supporting you, Writer. We are doing so by trying to explain the changes that need to be made if your marriage is to succeed with someone with your husband's track record. Just because we haven't bought into your husband's "remorse" does not mean we are not supporting you.

Susie and I - and I think some of the other posters to this thread - have been through the heartache of repeated D Days after which we realised that our husband's remorse had been either an act, or extremely short-lived, and we realised also that it was not possible for us to know when they were lying - they had been so convincing. The damage that this does to a woman's mental health is incalculable. We are trying to spare you that, knowing about your husband's long-term affair and this latest hookup. He has shown a remarkable commitment, for most of your marriage, to deceiving you.

Please don't characterise our warnings as not supporting you, just because they are not what you want to hear.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane


Please don't characterise our warnings as not supporting you, just because they are not what you want to hear.


I am willing to make whatever changes are necessary. My husband is too. But I'm seeing a lot of advice here to go immediately to Plan B/Divorce. I don't know how that would help in my desire to recover my marriage. I am not ready to give up on my marriage yet.

These are the things we are doing:

1. Reading several MB books including "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs."
2. Going through the various MB questionnaires together.
3. Spending way more than 15 hours of UA time together each week and meeting each other's EN's.
4. WH has given me complete access to all of his devices and accounts and I monitor them daily.
5. WH does nothing by himself other than go to work. He calls me on breaks/lunch. He changed jobs so that he now works in the same town we live in instead of 50 miles away. Affair did not involve his workplace. OW lives over 200 miles away, so no opportunity for a chance encounter.
6. Affair was exposed on D-day to family and close friends.
7. No contact letter sent (by me since my husband did not want to contact her at all so he sent me her final emails).

If I'm missing anything, I am open to suggestions. We've basically been dedicating all of our time and energy to trying to get our marriage back on track since D-day.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
Originally Posted by SugarCane


Please don't characterise our warnings as not supporting you, just because they are not what you want to hear.


I am willing to make whatever changes are necessary. My husband is too. But I'm seeing a lot of advice here to go immediately to Plan B/Divorce. I don't know how that would help in my desire to recover my marriage.


Again, you are mischaracterizing. The thread speaks for itself - but you asked in your first post if you were crazy for attempting recovery in this situation...and outlined your physical symptoms that you have been struggling with.

You had two of our best posters warning you that your WH's story doesn't add up and that he is a serial cheater - who will likely not change. (The same warning that was given to you in the last thread.)

In your responses to SC and unwritten, you are doing what you have done in the past - you are dismissing advice and feedback. That hasn't worked for you in the past, has it?
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 11:26 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
If I'm missing anything, I am open to suggestions.


I think you need to re-read what SC and unwritten wrote to you. Your WH's story stinks to high heaven. He has been carrying on a SSL for most of your M and I wouldn't be surprised if there have been other affairs. You need to poly him. You cannot recover with a wayward who is still keeping secrets from you.

I will be back...There is more...
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 11:28 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
3. Spending way more than 15 hours of UA time together each week and meeting each other's EN's.


This UA time is OUTSIDE of the home?

(This was an issue in the last thread)
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 11:30 PM
Originally Posted by writer1

4. WH has given me complete access to all of his devices and accounts and I monitor them daily.


Does this mean that you have quietly put spyware on all of his devices?

What about his workplace computer and phone?
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 08/01/19 11:56 PM
Originally Posted by writer1

6. Affair was exposed on D-day to family and close friends.

Did you expose to anyone on her side? What about her FB friends?


Originally Posted by writer1
7. No contact letter sent (by me since my husband did not want to contact her at all so he sent me her final emails).

Has she tried to contact him since she told you about the affair? Would you know if she were doing this via his work?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 12:59 AM
I'll try to cover everything.

I do believe my husband is telling the truth. No, I do not believe there have been any other affairs. There is no evidence to support that. My husband has never been one to spend time away from home outside of work. That's why, when he told me there was a "retirement party" for a co-worker, I was suspicious. He doesn't generally socialize outside of work. I believe he is telling me the truth. In fact, he is going to start his own thread here tonight. I don't think I am dismissing feedback. I simply do not have any reason to believe there have been more than the two affairs, the EA and the recent PA.

Yes, a lot of our UA time is outside of the house, at least twice a week. The intimate need-meeting generally takes place inside the house, as seems appropriate.

I have not put spyware on his phone or computer, but he's been open about letting me see them any time, without warning. I can't really afford spyware right now. We are in a financial situation right now that has no wiggle room whatsoever, which is why a polygraph isn't possible (not to mention that I couldn't find anything available anywhere near our small town).

I did not expose to the OW's friends or family because she blocked me on FB within minutes of contacting me about the affair. I have no way of obtaining that information. My WH isn't on FB at all. And the emails from her I was referring to occurred on D-day, directly after I found out about the affair. The last one was sent about an hour after she told me. There has been NC since then.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 03:01 PM
Have you read Serial Cheaters and listened to the radio clips?
Posted By: unwritten Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 03:02 PM
I just read through your old posts and it is like a cut and pasted version of this one. I am really concerned that you will brush this new affair under the rug like the old ones.

I see your WH posted. He tried to say all the right things and then followed it up at the end with a demand that we post ‘reasonable’ advice to you. I am not surprised that he would see my advice for you to require him to take a polygraph ‘unreasonable.’ Why do you think that is?

Someone paid for a hotel room, on a ‘shoestring budget.’ Yet paying for a poly is unreasonable. Let that sink in.

I also want to point out the fact that you said when asked he generally comes clean. But in your old post you state that he gaslit and trickle truthed you for a decade. Which is it?

I feel with 100% certainty you are being gaslit and that there are things you don’t know about. My unreasonable advice to require him to take a polygraph in order to start recovery following this last known affair stands. There is only one reason he will balk at the idea to do that, and it is because he knows he won’t pass. If he knows he will pass because he has told you everything, he should welcome the opportunity to prove that to you and us. If you can find the money for a hotel room you can find the money to do what your betrayed wife requires to give you yet another chance.

Writer1, you seem to think that we do not care about you and do not support you. We are giving you this advice because we DO care about you and do not want to see you back here again under these circumstances.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 03:08 PM
Originally Posted by unwritten
I just read through your old posts and it is like a cut and pasted version of this one. I am really concerned that you will brush this new affair under the rug like the old ones.

I see your WH posted. He tried to say all the right things and then followed it up at the end with a demand that we post ‘reasonable’ advice to you. I am not surprised that he would see my advice for you to require him to take a polygraph ‘unreasonable.’ Why do you think that is?

Someone paid for a hotel room, on a ‘shoestring budget.’ Yet paying for a poly is unreasonable. Let that sink in.

I also want to point out the fact that you said when asked he generally comes clean. But in your old post you state that he gaslit and trickle truthed you for a decade. Which is it?

I feel with 100% certainty you are being gaslit and that there are things you don’t know about. My unreasonable advice to require him to take a polygraph in order to start recovery following this last known affair stands. There is only one reason he will balk at the idea to do that, and it is because he knows he won’t pass. If he knows he will pass because he has told you everything, he should welcome the opportunity to prove that to you and us. If you can find the money for a hotel room you can find the money to do what your betrayed wife requires to give you yet another chance.

Writer1, you seem to think that we do not care about you and do not support you. We are giving you this advice because we DO care about you and do not want to see you back here again under these circumstances.


QFT !!!

Another fantastic (as usual) post unwritten!!!
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 06:17 PM
Okay.

As far as the polygraph goes, my husband has expressed a willingness to take one. What he meant by "reasonable" was probably more like "affordable." Our current financial status is extremely tenuous. We moved into a more expensive rental house last October to accommodate my father-in-law moving in with us. He was also contributing to the rent. Now that he has had to move into assisted living, we are 100% responsible for the entire amount and we are locked in to a one-year lease, so we can't move. I work for a school district, so I don't get paid during the summer. Our monthly expenses exceed our income until I return to work in a couple of weeks. The nearest place that offers polygraph testing in our area is 50 miles away and charges $400. That's our monthly food budget. We have no savings, no credit, and simply don't have the ability to do that at the moment.

The hotel room was a cheap room, and she paid for half of it. I'm not saying I'm okay with my husband paying anything for that considering our situation, but most people who are involved in active affairs do stupid things they shouldn't do. That's the definition of an affair. I know I certainly did a lot of things I'm ashamed of now during my affair. My husband has expressed remorse and regret for his actions, but he can't go back in time and change them.

During my husband's EA, no I didn't know what was going on for a long time. But I didn't ask either. When I finally started sensing something was wrong and I started to suspect there was more than a mere friendship between my husband and his ex-girlfriend and I started to question him, he did answer my questions honestly. It just took me a long time to figure out she was more than a "family friend" since most of the time, when we saw her, we were all together - me, my husband, our kids, her kids, her husband. They weren't doing things alone together. My husband has never been one to go off and do things by himself, or even with other guy friends. We've always done things as a couple or a family. But they were communicating via phone and email and I didn't know about that, or know to ask about it. Once I started asking, he told me the truth. He even went to our church leadership and confessed, though we have since left that church.

I really don't think there is anything else I don't know about. My husband was very specific and very thorough in answering all of my questions. His story has been very consistent and has included a detailed timeline. Lying almost always involves inconsistencies. I don't know what else to say here. My husband and I have thoroughly discussed everything. We are reading the MB books. He is answering all of my questions. He is giving me access to all of his accounts and devices. He is spending every minute of every day with me, other than when he is at work. He even calls me from work 2-3 times a day and texts when he's on his way home. His work phone and email are heavily monitored by his employer and he would get fired for using his work devices for personal communication. He isn't allowed to use his cell phone at all at work except during break or lunch. My husband has done everything I have asked of him and more, willingly, of his own accord. I haven't asked him to do a polygraph because it simply isn't possible right now.

I came back here for help in dealing with specific issues that I am personally grappling with including:

1. Feelings of inadequacy. His OW was 14 years younger than me, so I've been feeling very insecure about my age and physical attractiveness. This isn't coming from my husband at all, by the way. He is constantly telling me how beautiful I am and how, when he finally met the OW, he didn't find her attractive. She was heavier than her FB pictures even though she recently lost 100 lbs. I am thin (136 lbs.), fit, and walk 3-5 miles a day. But I'm still feeling insecure and I would like some advice on that.

2. Mental images. I am having a very difficult time getting the mental pictures of my husband and this woman together out of my head, especially when we are intimate. I would love some advice on how to deal with that.

3. Coping with depression and anxiety. These are things I've been struggling with. It's probably natural to feel that way after your world has been turned upside down, and depression is something I've struggled with in the past, especially during my affair. But just because it's normal doesn't mean it's easy.

4. Rebuilding trust in our relationship. Not blind trust, but the trust but verify kind of trust.

5. Figuring out what my EN's are. I've been struggling with this lately. I was very shut-off from my husband prior to his affair. I wasn't meeting his EN's and he wasn't meeting mine. In fact, it has been so long since we've attempted to do that and now I've sort of lost track of what my EN's even are. My husband and I had basically become roommates prior to his affair. It is something we've been working very hard to correct since D-day. But I'm having a difficult time articulating my own needs, even in my own head. My husband has been doing his best to meet my EN's and give me everything I need, but it would probably be easier for him if I could figure out what those are.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 06:26 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you read Serial Cheaters and listened to the radio clips?


What I'm trying to figure out is, does one EA that yes, lasted a very long time but has basically been over for 15 years, except for one instance of contact between my husband and his ex-girlfriend about two years ago that involved a phone call that lasted a couple of minutes and an email, and one EA/PA that lasted less than a total of 3 weeks, constitute a "serial cheater" over the course of an almost 26-year marriage? I don't know the answer to that, but when I read the material on serial cheating, none of it sounds like my situation.
Posted By: HoldHerHand Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 06:40 PM
1) Glow up. Take care of yourself. Take. A. Shower. Start doing evening walks. This is an excellent, and free, UA time opportunity.
2) Time. Redirection. Reclamation.
3) See the doc, check into Welbutrin r/t not being an SSRI and not having sexual side effects, which you will not want to deal with while rebonding. Do those evening walks, get some sunshine. Get a hormone panel and vitamin D level check.
4) You know how to do this.
5) You also know what to do here; 20+ hours of UA time each week meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs.

These things have not changed in your inactive years. They have not changed in my inactive years.

I fully appreciate the struggle of trying to care for aging family - we have my in-laws here, and my mother-in-law has a chronic autoimmune disease. My mom is now in her 70's and single, and I'm the only child in the state too look after her.

But, Writer, your story just doesn't seem to change. It appears you are so comfortable with the certainty of misery, and so afraid of the misery of uncertainty, that your problems have become the reason you can't solve your problems.

I get it. My marriage has seen some Shiitake mushrooms, too. But the greatest turn around was putting our marriage ahead of everything else. Period. We can thrive broke, homeless, and eating out of dumpsters so long as our marriage is strong. That has been the lesson of this program THE WHOLE TIME.

When that is a goal realized, you will NEVER COME TO REGRET THAT.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 08/02/19 06:40 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
What he meant by "reasonable" was probably more like "affordable."

Please don't interpret your husband's words for us. He made that statement; let him explain what he meant. Don't try to minimise or defend his nonsense - you are not helping him, and he does not need you to help him on this forum.

We're trying to support you both in your desire to (re)build your marriage. Leave us to call him out when he needs it.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/03/19 08:16 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane

Please don't interpret your husband's words for us. He made that statement; let him explain what he meant. Don't try to minimise or defend his nonsense - you are not helping him, and he does not need you to help him on this forum.

We're trying to support you both in your desire to (re)build your marriage. Leave us to call him out when he needs it.


Not interpreting his words. He told me that is what he meant. He was helping me research polygraphs, but right now, we can't even afford the gas to get to a testing center, let alone the actual cost of the test. I haven't read his thread, other than his original post, which he wanted to read to me before he posted it. I listened, but I didn't offer any input or changes. I want him to be able to express his own thoughts and feelings without interference.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/03/19 08:24 PM
Originally Posted by HoldHerHand
1) Glow up. Take care of yourself. Take. A. Shower. Start doing evening walks. This is an excellent, and free, UA time opportunity.
2) Time. Redirection. Reclamation.
3) See the doc, check into Welbutrin r/t not being an SSRI and not having sexual side effects, which you will not want to deal with while rebonding. Do those evening walks, get some sunshine. Get a hormone panel and vitamin D level check.
4) You know how to do this.
5) You also know what to do here; 20+ hours of UA time each week meeting the 4 intimate emotional needs.

These things have not changed in your inactive years. They have not changed in my inactive years.

I fully appreciate the struggle of trying to care for aging family - we have my in-laws here, and my mother-in-law has a chronic autoimmune disease. My mom is now in her 70's and single, and I'm the only child in the state too look after her.

But, Writer, your story just doesn't seem to change. It appears you are so comfortable with the certainty of misery, and so afraid of the misery of uncertainty, that your problems have become the reason you can't solve your problems.

I get it. My marriage has seen some Shiitake mushrooms, too. But the greatest turn around was putting our marriage ahead of everything else. Period. We can thrive broke, homeless, and eating out of dumpsters so long as our marriage is strong. That has been the lesson of this program THE WHOLE TIME.

When that is a goal realized, you will NEVER COME TO REGRET THAT.


Thank you for the suggestions. I actually have been doing some of this without even realizing it might help. My husband and I have been taking lots of walks alone together. We live right next to a very lovely and peaceful cemetery. We've been walking there most days and often just sitting on a bench talking. I've never been on antidepressants, but I do know people who have taken Welbutrin. It's good to know there are some without sexual side effects. Does this one have weight gain issues? I know many of them do. Definitely focusing on lots of EA time meeting the four intimate emotional needs, which I think really does help, even if some of them are not my top EN's. I'm just also trying to figure which EN's really are most important to me, and maybe right now, the answer to that question is the intimate EN's, since those are the ones that help build and strengthen a marriage the most.

I do agree that a strong marriage is the most important thing, which is why it is our primary focus. But I have to admit, I find the possibility of homelessness rather terrifying, especially since we have a 10-year-old. We also live in a town that, while small, has a rather large homeless population that is afflicted with substance abuse, mental disorders, and violence. We've had 5 murders in our town since March, and several non-fatal shootings. It's hard to feel safe here these days, which is why my husband is actively seeking employment out of state, hopefully somewhere more affordable than California.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 08/03/19 11:30 PM
Please remind me, didn’t you write Dr. Harley on the show before?

Why not write him?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/04/19 03:02 AM
I was on the radio show two years ago, when my husband contacted his ex-girlfriend via text/phone. We are actually planning on contacting the Harley’s again. I’m wondering, if we can be on the radio show again, if it might help if my husband talk to them this time?
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: My husband had another affair - 08/04/19 05:50 AM
https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/...018/my-thread-on-mb-101.html#Post2390018

Originally Posted by writer1
I know this forum gets more traffic, so I wanted to put this out there. Even if you haven't been following my thread (Tossed on the Waves) in MB 101 about the legal problems with my son, I could really use some help. I'm dealing with a spouse who has violent, uncontrolled outbursts and I don't know what to do about it anymore. This has been a problem throughout my entire M, and another incident involving my 18 year old son and H happened last night, in front of the baby and our other kids. If anyone who has dealt with this could please read my latest post, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Is this still a problem? You posted this in 2010, has he followed an anger management program?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/04/19 09:30 PM
Originally Posted by goody2shoes
https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/...018/my-thread-on-mb-101.html#Post2390018

Originally Posted by writer1
I know this forum gets more traffic, so I wanted to put this out there. Even if you haven't been following my thread (Tossed on the Waves) in MB 101 about the legal problems with my son, I could really use some help. I'm dealing with a spouse who has violent, uncontrolled outbursts and I don't know what to do about it anymore. This has been a problem throughout my entire M, and another incident involving my 18 year old son and H happened last night, in front of the baby and our other kids. If anyone who has dealt with this could please read my latest post, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

Is this still a problem? You posted this in 2010, has he followed an anger management program?


No, this has not been an issue for a long time. In fact, my husband has never so much as spanked our 10-year-old and neither have I, though it was a discipline method we used infrequently when our older kids were growing up. Most of the issues occurred between my husband and our three sons when they were teenagers, especially our now 25-year-old, who had ADHD and oppositional behavior disorder and was extremely difficult to deal with, both at home and at school. Also, my husband has never hit me or physically harmed me in any way. He is completely in control of his temper now and has been for years. In fact, my father-in-law, who has dementia, had several outbursts while he was living with us and tried to physically attack my husband and he was still able to remain in control (though they did have quite a few heated verbal exchanges). This really isn't a concern at all anymore.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/08/19 03:02 PM
Today it has been exactly one-month since D-day. I am prepared for a difficult day, even though we are doing well. We filled out the EN questionnaire again a few days ago and that really helped me sort out what my EN’s are. Still spending lots of UA time together, which has been very helpful. I still have bouts of anxiety and depression, though I’m not really sure how to differentiate between the two sometimes. I think it is getting better, but I know it will take time. My husband has been very loving and supportive and willing to do anything I ask, which helps. Right now, I’m just taking things one day at a time and trying to give myself time to heal. Patience has never been my strong point, but I am working on that as well.

My husband is going to contact the Harley’s directly and see what happens. If we are chosen to be on the radio show again or if they choose to read his letter and answer his question, I will post the information about the broadcast here in case anyone wants to listen.

I did read the Serial Cheater article and my husband does not meet the criteria at all. He sounds much more like the person Dr. Harley describes that has a second affair because of an incomplete recovery from a prior affair and failure to establish proper boundaries. It seems that Dr. Harley believes that marriages can very much recover after a repeat affair of this type, especially if both partners are willing to follow MB principles, especially POJA and radical honesty, which is what we are focusing on.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: My husband had another affair - 08/08/19 06:03 PM
I have been here for quite a while. Forum members who recover ( personal recovery or marital recovery) have a tendency to read old threads non stop.
Others read their own thread again and again to re-read the advice given.

Your WH has not logged in for 4 days. That tells me something and for now, I'm not too happy about your chances.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/08/19 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by goody2shoes
I have been here for quite a while. Forum members who recover ( personal recovery or marital recovery) have a tendency to read old threads non stop.
Others read their own thread again and again to re-read the advice given.

Your WH has not logged in for 4 days. That tells me something and for now, I'm not too happy about your chances.


He hasn’t logged on to the forum, but he has been on the MB site. I read the article about Serial Cheaters to him and we discussed that. We’ve been reading about EN’s and we filled out the questionnaire this week and discussed that. We’re also reading through several of Dr. Harley’s books. My husband has stated that he finds many of those resources more useful than posting on the forum. Also, he works during the week and we spend a lot of our time when he gets home focusing on UA and family time.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 08/08/19 08:54 PM
Has he written Dr. Harley yet?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 08/08/19 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Has he written Dr. Harley yet?


Working on it now.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 09/10/19 08:48 PM
It's been two months since D-Day and we are doing pretty well. Spending lots of UA time together, doing a good job of meeting EN's, spending all of our free time together when we aren't at work. My husband has been doing a good job with POJA and radical honesty and has been very patient and caring and loving.

The one thing I'm still struggling with the most is the mental images of him with his affair partner, which happen mostly when we are intimate. We've been doing an excellent job meeting the need for SF (something we weren't doing before his affair), but every time we are intimate, I am still plagued by mental images, which take me out of the moment and cause me a great deal of emotional pain. I know this will likely fade with time, but I am wondering if there is anything I can do to address the problem in the meantime? Has Dr. Harley specifically addressed this issue? I searched through the articles and letters, but I can't seem to find much on this particular topic.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: My husband had another affair - 09/11/19 07:43 AM
How many hours UA a week do you schedule? Do you hit the 15 hour mark every week? What are your top 3 EN and are they met?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 09/11/19 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by goody2shoes
How many hours UA a week do you schedule? Do you hit the 15 hour mark every week? What are your top 3 EN and are they met?


We’re getting 2-3 official dates outside of the home a week, usually 4-5 hours each. We take walks together every other day for about an hour. Put our daughter to bed around 8:30 and spend 1-2 hours together before we go to sleep either talking, reading, or meeting the need for SF.

My top three EN’s are Openness and Honesty, Conversation, and Recreational Companionship, with Sexual Fulfillment and Affection rounding out the top five. I do feel like my needs are being met. Obviously, only two months out from D-day O&H is a huge concern still. My husband is being very open and honest now, but he wasn’t for a very long time, so I’m still having major trust issues even though he is accounting for all of his time and has given me access to all of his accounts (he deactivated FB and completely shut down the email address they used to communicate).

I’m still getting visuals of them together whenever we are intimate. It’s less frequent now and less intense, but I’d like to figure out how to stop them altogether. I am trying hard to redirect my thoughts whenever it happens, but it is something I still struggle with. I wasn’t sure if Dr. Harley had addressed this somewhere?
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: My husband had another affair - 09/12/19 06:23 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
[I’m still getting visuals of them together whenever we are intimate. It’s less frequent now and less intense, but I’d like to figure out how to stop them altogether. I am trying hard to redirect my thoughts whenever it happens, but it is something I still struggle with. I wasn’t sure if Dr. Harley had addressed this somewhere?


It s very common to have those thoughts during intimacy. Time is the best healer and, of course, creating a great marriage that is safe.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 02:34 PM
Reading this thread is very saddening.
Posted By: markos Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 04:50 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Please don't characterise our warnings as not supporting you, just because they are not what you want to hear.

I am willing to make whatever changes are necessary. My husband is too. But I'm seeing a lot of advice here to go immediately to Plan B/Divorce. I don't know how that would help in my desire to recover my marriage. I am not ready to give up on my marriage yet.

These are the things we are doing:

1. Reading several MB books including "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs."
2. Going through the various MB questionnaires together.
3. Spending way more than 15 hours of UA time together each week and meeting each other's EN's.
4. WH has given me complete access to all of his devices and accounts and I monitor them daily.
5. WH does nothing by himself other than go to work. He calls me on breaks/lunch. He changed jobs so that he now works in the same town we live in instead of 50 miles away. Affair did not involve his workplace. OW lives over 200 miles away, so no opportunity for a chance encounter.
6. Affair was exposed on D-day to family and close friends.
7. No contact letter sent (by me since my husband did not want to contact her at all so he sent me her final emails).

If I'm missing anything, I am open to suggestions. We've basically been dedicating all of our time and energy to trying to get our marriage back on track since D-day.


In 2019 you proclaimed you were open to suggestions, but kept listing the suggestions you were not open to.

Nothing changes until writer1 changes.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 05:17 PM
Quote
I’ve labeled myself a serial cheater because I am.

He has admitted to it now, writer.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
So whenever the spouse of someone with multiple affairs asks me what he or she can do to help save their marriage, I must tell them that the procedures we recommend will work for those who want to stop cheating. Our program will help them achieve that objective. But if they don't want to follow our program, I have to assume that they will continue to have affairs for the rest of their lives. And their spouses should assume the same thing. To avoid the suffering that comes with infidelity, I encourage them to divorce as soon as possible.
What to Do with a Serial Cheater

Your husband:
1. Admits to being a serial cheater
2. Hasn't followed the program
3. Has had multiple chances to follow the program, and still doesn't

You must, for your own sake, assume that he will continue to have affairs for the rest of his life. You will continue to be subjected to this pain. To avoid this suffering, Dr. Harley would recommend you divorce him as soon as possible.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 05:24 PM
Quote
We met and had physical relations twice (Nov 2020 and July 2021) in the year and a half period of time.
How is this possible in a marriage with a WH who is following the MB program of recovery?

He's hasn't been following the program. He never will, writer. He will throw you a bone by confessing, and showing up on this board for a moment, and maybe meet a few of your needs here and there. But he will never follow extraordinary precautions. He has no intention of doing so. When your back is turned, he will do this to you again.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 05:37 PM
Quote
We, then, moved out of state and after a few months at my new job in April 2020, I started an emotional affair with a co-worker who was friendly and open to personal messaging that involved inappropriate conversation, and even inappropriate pictures sent via email. This affair ended by her not responding to my messages though I did in October (2021) reach out only to see if she was okay. She did reply back by guessing someone else. When I told her who it was, she said hello, I’ve not heard from her again and I’ve not reached back out to her.

Another affair started with a different former girlfriend from high school in May 2020. This started as a catch-up session via email, but the conversations turned inappropriate within a couple of weeks. We met and had physical relations twice (Nov 2020 and July 2021

In an MB marriage, none of this is possible. In a marriage that follows extraordinary precautions, your spouse cannot start "personal messaging" and then go on to "reach out." There are no "catch-up sessions" with former girlfriends. It certainly doesn't escalate to a physical meetup not once, but twice. BECAUSE YOU WILL KNOW ALMOST IMMEDIATELY that extraordinary precautions have been violated. A secret second life does not exist in a marriage where the wayward spouse is actually wanting to follow the program.

Your husband really doesn't care if you find out about his affairs. This is why he confesses. He doesn't care because:
1.He knows he's not going to lose you
2. As a serial cheater, it's not the relationship with the affair partner that matters to him. It's the win. It's the "getting as many as he can get." By the time he's confessing the affair to you, he's already done with that affair partner and is ready to move on to the next.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 07:10 PM
Please read serial cheaters
Posted By: markos Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 10:15 PM
Hi, writer1. I hope you're reading you're husband's thread. And I hope you'll take this to heart: I didn't get any better until Prisca told me I couldn't come home until I could guarantee her that it would never happen again.

There is nothing to be optimistic about, here. Don't whistle in the dark like you have before.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/23/21 10:50 PM
Looks like someone revived my thread.

I’ve read the article on serial cheaters many times, including in the past several weeks.

I would like to point out that my husband was never really on board with MB in the past. When I first found this forum after my own affair and started posting here, he was actively against the program and felt my posting on the forum was doing me more harm than good, which is why I ultimately left. I briefly returned in 2019 and, though my husband was willing to do some reading in Surviving an Affair, he still wasn’t entirely on board with MB. Now, I realize why.

I’m staying in my marriage for now, but proceeding with an abundance of caution. I haven’t made any definitive decisions yet. I must say, something feels different this time. My husband is much more open to MB than he’s ever been in the past. Instead of my having to take the lead and try to repair the damage that’s been done (which I feel like I did after my own affair and his affairs as well) he’s actually taking an active role now in attempting to change. I understand the skepticism. I’m certainly skeptical myself. But I’m here and I can see the difference in his attitude and his actions that may not be apparent on a forum like this. I’m carefully watching everything he says and does and basically taking a Missouri approach to this entire thing - show me. I’m not ready yet to throw away 28 years of a life together, but I disagree that my husband believes he can do anything he wants at all without having to worry about losing me. I think he realizes now how precariously close to the edge he is and that it wouldn’t take much to push me over that cliff. I’m not a fool, even though a lot of people here seem to assume that I am. My eyes are wide open and I’m fully aware of the odds my marriage is facing at this point.

For now, we’re reading Surviving an Affair together. We’re spending time together and talking in a way we haven’t in years. I’m monitoring his online activity and have access to all of his accounts. I’m confident this latest affair is over. I exposed it to the OW’s husband immediately and we’ve been in contact and he is monitoring things on his end. My husband wrote her a no contact letter the day he told me about the affair. It seems he was very ready to be done with the relationship and with the entire burden of constantly attempting to live a double life. He has apologized for his behavior and seems genuinely embarrassed by what he has done. He’s been reading (on his own) about pathological lying and serial cheating and has admitted to having a problem. That’s always a necessary first step. I support him in this journey of self-discovery and change, whether or not our marriage ultimately survives.

I’m taking things one day at a time and not rushing into any decisions as I’ve done in the past. That’s what I feel I need to do right now, whether or not anyone else agrees with me. I’m trying to take care of myself and be gentle with myself. I had a rough couple of weeks after I first found out where I wasn’t eating or sleeping and was barely able to function. I’m in a better place mentally now. I know my husband’s actions are no reflection on me or on my worth as a human being and that, whatever happens, I will be okay. I will survive this. I love my husband and I always will. I hope he chooses to be the man I know he can be, the man I’ve seen him stepping up and being these past few weeks. But I also know that ultimately, it’s up to him what kind of person he wants to be. I can’t change him. I do believe he can change himself. And I can establish boundaries and decide how I will or will not be treated going forward in the future. I can decide I will not be lied to or cheated on or disrespected anymore. So that’s what I’m doing. Maybe I’ll end up doing it in a healthy recovered marriage and maybe I’ll end up doing it on my own. Time will tell.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 04:14 PM
I feel pretty confident in saying that nobody is really surprised by this response of yours.

You are saying the same things you said in 2019, which were the same things you said before that.

He was never really onboard with MB ... THIS time he is ... you're reading SAA together ... you're having UA ... you have access to all his accounts and monitor his online activity ... you're confident that the affair is over ....

It's all the same stuff, writer. Go back and read your own threads if you don't believe me.

Nothing has changed.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 04:20 PM
Quote
I’m taking things one day at a time and not rushing into any decisions as I’ve done in the past.
10+ years is hardly rushing things.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 04:26 PM
Quote
For now, we’re reading Surviving an Affair together.

A man who is reading SAA should be able to answer the question about what precautions he is taking, and not mistake emotional needs for extraordinary precautions. It isn't hard. Any wayward can do it.

For the wayward who needs help, we're here to answer questions. He's not even asking questions.

He's not serious.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 04:54 PM
Prisca.

We started reading SAA just a few days ago. We’re just about ready to start Chapter 3. I’ve read it before, but my husband has not. No, we never made it very far before because he was not on board with doing it. So I mostly read on my own. My husband is feeling attacked for being expected to know everything about a program before he’s actually had the opportunity to read everything and learn it, which isn’t particularly helpful. Sure he could have and should have done it before, but he didn’t. Now he is. He has admitted we’ve gotten nowhere solving this problem on our own. So we’re going to give MB a try, together, like we should have done years ago, with or without the support of this forum. But with would be highly appreciated. If that isn’t possible, then we’ll stick to the books and articles. We’re also looking into the MB counseling.
Posted By: markos Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 05:17 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
So we’re going to give MB a try, together, like we should have done years ago, with or without the support of this forum. But with would be highly appreciated..

That's great! Please let him know he needs to get that todo list posted really quick! We want to help him!
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 05:29 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
We've been reading Surviving an Affair (again).
July, 2019

Originally Posted by writer1
My husband seems much more open to MB now. He's reading the books with me
August 2019

Originally Posted by writer1
My husband was not willing to do MB last time, not the right way at least. But so far, he has been willing to do everything I have asked of him this time.
August 2019

These are your words, not mine.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 05:32 PM
Quote
My husband is feeling attacked for being expected to know everything about a program before he’s actually had the opportunity to read everything and learn it, which isn’t particularly helpful.

Stop protecting him. If he's serious, wild horses couldn't drag him away. If he's serious, he'll man up and get on here and answer the challenges he's been given. He is not fragile.

It's time for him to get on here and prove he's serious.
Posted By: Prisca Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 05:35 PM
He is NOT being asked to do anything every other wayward has been challenged to do.

Those who buckle under and answer the challenge save their marriages.
Those who balk and cry that it's too hard or too mean, don't.
Posted By: markos Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 05:36 PM
writer, we are saying to your husband the things that lead to waywards recovering. Encourage him to come go through it.

One of my best mentors here was a former wayward, HerPapaBear. He taught me so much.

Tell him to get here and become like that. Do the stuff without balking.

He needs to get that todo list made and posted.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by markos
writer, we are saying to your husband the things that lead to waywards recovering. Encourage him to come go through it.

One of my best mentors here was a former wayward, HerPapaBear. He taught me so much.

Tell him to get here and become like that. Do the stuff without balking.

He needs to get that todo list made and posted.

He’s been spending the morning watching some of the Harley’s videos and reading on the website. I think he’s uncomfortable posting right now because he doesn’t know the basics so he wants to at least get a grasp on that so he’ll know what people are asking him.
Posted By: markos Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 08:14 PM
He needs to go through his thread and read the things people have suggested for him to do, and make a todo list.
Posted By: markos Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 09:22 PM
writer, when will he be taking a polygraph test?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 11:50 PM
Originally Posted by markos
He needs to go through his thread and read the things people have suggested for him to do, and make a todo list.

I will let him know to check it. Today has been kind of crazy with the holidays.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/24/21 11:53 PM
Originally Posted by markos
writer, when will he be taking a polygraph test?

I honestly don’t see the need for one at this point. My husband has told me a lot of very difficult things. If he was still trying to hide something, I don’t think I’d have all of the details I have. I can’t imagine anything much worse than what I already know. What motivation would he have for revealing the multiple affairs he’s had over the past two-and-a-half years but hiding something else. Everything he’s told me has been damning enough.
Posted By: SusieQ Re: My husband had another affair - 12/29/21 08:07 PM
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
I’ve labeled myself a serial cheater because I am.

He has admitted to it now, writer.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
So whenever the spouse of someone with multiple affairs asks me what he or she can do to help save their marriage, I must tell them that the procedures we recommend will work for those who want to stop cheating. Our program will help them achieve that objective. But if they don't want to follow our program, I have to assume that they will continue to have affairs for the rest of their lives. And their spouses should assume the same thing. To avoid the suffering that comes with infidelity, I encourage them to divorce as soon as possible.
What to Do with a Serial Cheater

Your husband:
1. Admits to being a serial cheater
2. Hasn't followed the program
3. Has had multiple chances to follow the program, and still doesn't

You must, for your own sake, assume that he will continue to have affairs for the rest of his life. You will continue to be subjected to this pain. To avoid this suffering, Dr. Harley would recommend you divorce him as soon as possible.

Do you acknowledge that your WH is a serial cheater? In the past, I know that there was a reluctance to admit that. I'm wondering if that has changed.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/29/21 09:36 PM
Originally Posted by SusieQ
Originally Posted by Prisca
Quote
I’ve labeled myself a serial cheater because I am.

He has admitted to it now, writer.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
So whenever the spouse of someone with multiple affairs asks me what he or she can do to help save their marriage, I must tell them that the procedures we recommend will work for those who want to stop cheating. Our program will help them achieve that objective. But if they don't want to follow our program, I have to assume that they will continue to have affairs for the rest of their lives. And their spouses should assume the same thing. To avoid the suffering that comes with infidelity, I encourage them to divorce as soon as possible.
What to Do with a Serial Cheater

Your husband:
1. Admits to being a serial cheater
2. Hasn't followed the program
3. Has had multiple chances to follow the program, and still doesn't

You must, for your own sake, assume that he will continue to have affairs for the rest of his life. You will continue to be subjected to this pain. To avoid this suffering, Dr. Harley would recommend you divorce him as soon as possible.

Do you acknowledge that your WH is a serial cheater? In the past, I know that there was a reluctance to admit that. I'm wondering if that has changed.

We actually re-read the “What to do with a Serial Cheater” article together a few days ago and we both realized that he doesn’t exactly fit Dr. Harley’s definition of a serial cheater. He much more closely resembles the person who has multiple affairs, especially when it comes to intent. My husband isn’t the type of person who just goes out and tries to pursue as many women as possible just for the thrill of the chase and to put another notch in his belt. He wasn’t that type of person before we got married and that description doesn’t fit him now either. I feel, and he feels as well, that he definitely has had a massive problem with poor boundaries and a long history of looking outside of our marriage to get his needs met. But he didn’t pursue women with the sole intent of having as many affairs as possible just for the thrill of doing so. For him, it was always more feeling that there were needs that weren’t being met in our marriage (which I fully acknowledge because they weren’t being met for me either) and, instead of trying to resolve that with me, he would look outward, to a co-worker or an old girlfriend from high school to try and and get those needs met.

His affairs have some commonalities. They all started with being unhappy and unfulfilled in our marriage. So then he would start emailing a co-worker or reaching out to an old friend. They would be platonic at first and then evolve into complaining to one another about how unhappy they were with their spouses, which would lead to them eventually evolving into developing feelings for each other as they met one another’s emotional needs. His affairs were mostly emotional, and pretty much exclusively involved women who he didn’t have much opportunity to actually see in person on a regular basis.

The first one, 2 1/2 years ago was with someone who lived 4 hours away and they only saw each other once. It only lasted a few weeks and I found out about it the day after it ended. The second one was with a co-worker and was completely long distance because it started after my husband began working remotely due to Covid and he never actually saw her again since he never returned to the office and they both eventually left the company. During that time, we were literally never apart and basically didn’t go anywhere other than to run necessary errands or do outdoor activities like hiking and we were always together. The third one took place over roughly the past year and was with an old high school girlfriend who lives 800 miles away from us. It was almost all long distance. They met twice, once a little over a year ago when my husband drove to Nevada from our home in Utah to meet his sister to scatter their dad’s ashes. The OP drove up from California to meet him there (his sister didn’t know she was there) and they spent one night in a hotel together. Then, they met in person again last July when my husband went to Kentucky for training for his new job. She flew there to be with him and they spent three nights together while he was there.

While I don’t want to downplay anything that happened, Dr. Harley has a pretty narrow definition of what a serial cheater is, and my husband doesn’t fit that particular description. I thought he did (and he thought he did) because of his multiple affairs. But after re-reading that article, we realized Dr. Harley’s distinction between the serial cheater and the person who has multiple affairs, and my husband seems to fall into the latter category more than the former.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: My husband had another affair - 12/29/21 11:39 PM
Walks like a duck...

He fits the definition just right.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/29/21 11:42 PM
Originally Posted by goody2shoes
Walks like a duck...

He fits the definition just right.

If you read the article, he literally doesn’t. This is Dr. Harley’s distinction, not mine. I feel like it’s going to be most helpful to realize what situation I’m actually dealing with here, because the approaches are very different.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: My husband had another affair - 12/29/21 11:48 PM
If you have known MB since 2009, he sure knows/understands how affairs start.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/30/21 12:07 AM
Originally Posted by goody2shoes
If you have known MB since 2009, he sure knows/understands how affairs start.

I found MB after my affair. Yes, he knew about it. He didn’t do much reading here though. I did. In fact, he thought I was spending too much time on the forum and was getting too emotionally invested in things here and he grew to resent it, which is why I ultimately left. I came back in 2019 after I found out about his brief 2-week affair, and I think he made a couple of posts then, but he still wasn’t really onboard with the MB program. We did a little reading then and did the emotional needs questionnaire, but he didn’t do any reading on his own.

Now, he’s actually reading on his own, reading with me, listening to the radio broadcasts, etc. He’s done the extraordinary precautions - ended all contact, sent a no-contact letter, closed all of the email and Signal accounts he used to conduct his affairs, given me all his passwords and access to all online accounts, he’s not on social media, he’s given me all of the information about the affairs and answered all questions, we spend all of our time together, etc. He’s finally acknowledged that we’ve gotten nowhere attempting to solve the problem on our own. He’s fully onboard with doing the MB program and we plan on starting the phone counseling as soon as he finds another job (he got laid off in mid-October) and we can afford it. I’ve basically told him we do the MB program and we do it right, or our marriage is over. And he agrees.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 12/30/21 12:45 AM
Originally Posted by writer1
The first one, 2 1/2 years ago was with someone who lived 4 hours away and they only saw each other once. It only lasted a few weeks and I found out about it the day after it ended. The second one was with a co-worker and was completely long distance because it started after my husband began working remotely due to Covid and he never actually saw her again since he never returned to the office and they both eventually left the company. During that time, we were literally never apart and basically didn’t go anywhere other than to run necessary errands or do outdoor activities like hiking and we were always together. The third one took place over roughly the past year and was with an old high school girlfriend who lives 800 miles away from us. It was almost all long distance. They met twice, once a little over a year ago when my husband drove to Nevada from our home in Utah to meet his sister to scatter their dad’s ashes. The OP drove up from California to meet him there (his sister didn’t know she was there) and they spent one night in a hotel together. Then, they met in person again last July when my husband went to Kentucky for training for his new job. She flew there to be with him and they spent three nights together while he was there.
Let's not forget his contacting the old girlfriend that he had never got over, in 2017. If the one in 2019 is "the first one", what does that make this renewed contact in 2017?

Originally Posted by writer2 June 2017
Tonight, my husband dropped another bombshell on me (I don't even know how many this makes). About two weeks ago, he called his ex-girlfriend out of the blue. They've spoken and emailed several times since then, and have even expressed their continued "feelings" for each other. I'm pretty sure nothing physical has happened, since she lives 4 hours away, but definitely emotional.

It seems my husband has never really gotten over this ex-girlfriend in all of our 24 years of marriage. The last time, when we decided to work on our marriage after I ended my affair, I swore I would never do this again and that I would move straight into divorce if my husband cheated again. I know that's what I need to do. Mentally, I know that. But my head is reeling right now and my heart is racing and I feel like I'm going to throw up and I have no idea what to do. You'd think I would be a pro at this by now, but I guess it's just something you never get used to.
I make that 4 in 4 years, but you're correct, writer. He does not fit Dr Harley's definition.

Keep meeting his ENs and he won't do this again.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/30/21 01:05 AM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Let's not forget his contacting the old girlfriend that he had never got over, in 2017. If the one in 2019 is "the first one", what does that make this renewed contact in 2017?
I make that 4 in 4 years, but you're correct, writer. He does not fit Dr Harley's definition.

Keep meeting his ENs and he won't do this again.[/quote]

Yes, he has periodically attempted to reconnect with this one particular ex-girlfriend over the years. This is the same person he still had feelings for when we got married and who he had an emotional affair with off and on for the first 10 years of our marriage. She broke up with him in college to marry someone much older and more financially stable because she wanted to escape a dysfunctional family situation. My husband had a very difficult time accepting the situation and she thought they could be “friends” still while admitting she still had feelings for him. My husband did entertain hopes that she’d eventually leave her husband to be with him, even though she told him she wouldn’t. I strongly suspect the three recent affairs are somehow connected to his unresolved feelings for this person. Apparently he also attempted to contact her via email during his most recent affair (with a different high school girlfriend - someone he dated for a few months before the girlfriend he had the EA with early in our marriage - who he dated for 3 1/2 years). But she has refused any and all contact with him and has changed her email and phone number so he was never able to reach her.

But yes, there have been 4 affairs in 28 years. Two were only emotional and two were emotional and physical.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 12/30/21 03:48 AM
Have all his affairs been exposed?

The OW were married, so at the very least do their BHs know?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 12/30/21 04:20 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have all his affairs been exposed?

The OW were married, so at the very least do their BHs know?

The most recent one was exposed to the OW’s husband. That was the emotional/physical affair with an ex-girlfriend. The emotional affair with the coworker before that was not exposed because I have no way to do so. That OW isn’t on social media, no longer works at the company (my husband hasn’t worked there either since last March), and there really is no way to expose it. My husband thinks she may have moved out of the state. The affair that happened in 2019 was with someone who was single, so no one to really expose it to. As far as the OW my husband had the emotional affair with for the first 10 years of our marriage, that was exposed to the OW’s husband years ago. On our end, the affairs have all been exposed to our children and to my husband’s sister, basically everyone there is to expose to.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 01:13 AM
I need help dealing with resentment.

There is the obvious resentment about my husband’s multiple affairs. I’m trying my best to deal with that. Some days I do better than others. My husband has done everything he can do on that front - ended the affairs and his secret second life that allowed them to happen, answered all of my questions, provided me with access to all of his online accounts and passwords, etc. We’re reading SAA and currently filling out the Love Busters questionnaire.

But there’s also the matter of my husband’s job situation. He’s been unemployed since October and since then we’ve been living off his unemployment and my income. I don’t earn nearly enough to support us on my own and his unemployment runs out in March and the situation is causing a huge amount of stress on both of us. He spends 40,hours a week job searching, filling out applications, going on interviews, etc. but so far, he has not received a single job offer. I know he’s trying and honestly I have no idea why he’s getting nowhere with his job search considering how many job openings there supposedly are right now. He has two college degrees and tons of experience in business and sales. Still, nothing. My need for financial security just isn’t being met at all and it’s causing even more resentment on my part.

Simultaneously dealing with these two situations at the same time is making things doubly difficult. I am trying my best to control my resentment and meet his needs, but it’s becoming increasingly difficult the longer he remains unemployed and unable to meet one of my important needs.

I’m looking for some strategies to help me control my resentment because I’m having a very difficult time avoiding angry outbursts and love busters right now, which I know I need to get under control.
Posted By: happyheart Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 02:34 AM
Dear Writer 1,

I am very sorry to hear of your predicament. You deserve a husband who loves you and is all-in. There is something in the marriage vows of "forsake all others" that he promised you. There are no excuses for contacting or even thinking of old girlfriends - how immature. And the fact that a woman broke up with him in college is NEVER the reason for him straying now. Please realize that you deserve an entire man, not half a man with the other foot on the outside of your marriage. You have adult children together who are way past college age for crying out loud.

That said, your situations seems a carbon copy of what I remember from the other times you were here, especially the following patterns:
1. You are living in an appartment that you cannot really afford.
2. You take in family members who should help pay rent and trouble arises when they move out.
3. Your husband is unemployed or precariously employed.
4. Quite unexpectedly, the summer comes along and you are not payed because you work for the school district.

Other problems seem to have been resolved.
5. Child rearing problems seem to have been solved.
6. The added stress of caring for family members is solved - good for you.

The overarching problem on your side seems to be:
1. your lack of planning (there could be a trait of ADD here, just considering).
2. your endless creativity in finding excuses for inexcusable behaviour and decisions - and not holding him accountable enough that he succeeds in having relationships behind your back.

The problem on your husbands side seems to me that he is a b_m, who is actively looking for outside need fulfillment, action and entertainment.

Your solution is simple:
Money problems
a. go to the church and have them find someone to get help with your budgetting, including thinking of a housing solution that is affordable. You have been living beyond your means and having to move as long as you have been here. You cannot do it by yourself.
b. If I remember you are a teaching assistant. What is hindering you to do tutoring during the summer, or babysitting or mowing lawns or selling ice-cream on the beach or doing fun things with children who's parents are working, or other means of income? You can start planning that now.
c. If your husband does not have a job and is good at losing jobs, he should consider a second means of income. Preferably where he is not in contact with people real or imagined, without you present.

Affair problems
close the gaps. It will be easier for your husband if he knows he is being watched.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 03:14 AM
A few clarifications. This is the longest my husband has ever been unemployed during our 28 years of marriage. He never actually lost a job prior to the two job losses he has experienced in the past year. He was with one company for 7 years, another for 15 years and then left that company for a different job which he did for 5 years. It’s really only been since we moved to Utah and the start of the pandemic that he’s had trouble keeping a job. He’s been laid off twice since those two things occurred. His salaries haven’t always been the highest, but he’s had full time employment with benefits throughout most of our marriage.

Right now, we’re living in a small condo that my daughter owns and our rent is far below the going rate for where we live. It would be impossible to find anything cheaper with where rents are right now. We could easily afford the rent when my husband was working, but we won’t be able to afford it on my salary alone. Sure, I could look for a better job and have been (though my earning potential is much lower than his). But it’s a huge drain on my love bank being expected to meet all of the financial needs of our family while I’m the only one who is actually working right now and also having to deal with all of the issues surrounding his affair. I feel like I have needs too and this is a big one and it isn’t getting met at all. I don’t think having to find a different job and completely support the family on my own will do much to make me feel like my husband is meeting my needs.
Posted By: G.Wilkerson Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 07:31 AM
I feel sorry that you have been cheated twice by the same person. In my opinion, if a person commits the same mistake even after apologizing it, it isn't a mistake! I understand your love for husband and attachment towards him, but at times reality tastes bitter! Hope you will take a wise decision, whatever it maybe. Wishing you all strength and happiness.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 10:22 AM
Writer I recently got a new job paying a third more than what I was making and would be happy to brainstorm here or on your H’s thread if he’d rather talk there. Is he plugged into the local unemployment office program for professionals? I had a friend who went there who helped me overhaul my resume with the advice she got. It took 6 hours but immediately I got recruiters reaching out to me on LinkedIn.

That’s the other thing is your H on LinkedIn? The job market is crazy hot right now they are staffing for the new year. Many jobs are not listed, and if he has the keywords by his name they can find him.

Is he willing to work remotely? That opens the doors to opportunities that may pay more than locally depending on how well they compensate where you live. That helped me too because they pay poorly here but I got a 100% remote job with a local company so they pay a nationwide rate.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 10:25 AM
The company I’m working at is looking for software sales SaaS let me know if I should send the name of the company to the moderators I don’t know if they can pass it on to you.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
Writer I recently got a new job paying a third more than what I was making and would be happy to brainstorm here or on your H’s thread if he’d rather talk there. Is he plugged into the local unemployment office program for professionals? I had a friend who went there who helped me overhaul my resume with the advice she got. It took 6 hours but immediately I got recruiters reaching out to me on LinkedIn.

That’s the other thing is your H on LinkedIn? The job market is crazy hot right now they are staffing for the new year. Many jobs are not listed, and if he has the keywords by his name they can find him.

Is he willing to work remotely? That opens the doors to opportunities that may pay more than locally depending on how well they compensate where you live. That helped me too because they pay poorly here but I got a 100% remote job with a local company so they pay a nationwide rate.

He has met with the local unemployment office. He’s also had someone I went to school with who is an expert in job searching critique his resume. He’s also on LinkedIn.

Honestly I don’t know what the issue is. He gets lots of responses to his resume and lots of interviews. He’s made it to the 2nd and 3rd round of interviews a number of times, but they always end up going with another candidate. I wonder if it’s an age issue (he’s 52 now)?

He’s definitely open to working remotely. That’s what he was doing before and he would prefer to stay remote. He’s applying for both remote and in person.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/06/22 08:45 PM
Originally Posted by NewEveryDay
The company I’m working at is looking for software sales SaaS let me know if I should send the name of the company to the moderators I don’t know if they can pass it on to you.

That would be awesome if possible. His last position was sales for a software as a service company.
Posted By: NewEveryDay Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 04:38 AM
Writer that’s great feedback that he’s getting lots of responses on LinkedIn and getting to those 2nd and 3rd interviews. I don’t know what headhunting firms work in his field but they are good at getting him to the right jobs and giving useful interview feedback too. I notified the mods on the previous post and sent the job req.
Posted By: w1hubby Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 03:53 PM
@NewEveryDay - Thank you for the assist!! Hopefully they can get it approved or over to me one way or another.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 05:23 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
I need help dealing with resentment...

..I’m looking for some strategies to help me control my resentment because I’m having a very difficult time avoiding angry outbursts and love busters right now, which I know I need to get under control.
Dr Harley speaks about resentment being a logical response to having been hurt by someone. It is your subconscious telling you to protect yourself from this person. Dr Harley actually says that the more affairs there have been (or the more one single affair has never died but has kept recurring - and both these things have happened to you), the more there is to resent. The more that has been done, the longer it will take, even assuming that the WS is exemplary from a certain point on.

Your resentment over your husbands treatment of you is wholly understandable. The resentment will fade if he does not repeat the behaviours, and if he meets your ENs and avoids love busters. Of course, meeting your ENs includes supporting you financially, which he is unable to do at present. That situation must be resolved urgently.

It's not the resentment that you need to control, but the angry outbursts and other love busters (what are these)?

Angry outbursts are controlled by practising relaxation when something happens that arouses your anger. Have you read about this technique on this forum?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 05:46 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Angry outbursts are controlled by practising relaxation when something happens that arouses your anger. Have you read about this technique on this forum?

I have not. Do you have a link where I can find that?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 05:55 PM
It should be in Anger Management 101
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 06:05 PM
Thanks, Brainy, for supplying that so promptly. The problem is that these days, the clips you provide do not seem to work, and that whole thread is made up of clips.

Do you know of any threads where the detail of the method is discussed? I'll have a look later myself. I think there might be a Harley article, also.

I know that Dr Harley recommends a Galvanic skin response reader for people with a bad anger problem. You might be able to find them on Amazon, but I don't think it's necessary to shell out for this purchase if you can learn the techniques without it.
Posted By: goody2shoes Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 06:07 PM
Is this aplicable to both of you or does your H have his angry outbursts under control? In one of your previews posts, you mentioned his AO being a problem during your entire marriage.
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 06:31 PM
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Thanks, Brainy, for supplying that so promptly. The problem is that these days, the clips you provide do not seem to work, and that whole thread is made up of clips.

Do you know of any threads where the detail of the method is discussed? I'll have a look later myself. I think there might be a Harley article, also.

I know that Dr Harley recommends a Galvanic skin response reader for people with a bad anger problem. You might be able to find them on Amazon, but I don't think it's necessary to shell out for this purchase if you can learn the techniques without it.
You're correct that the clips seem to not work anymore.

Here is the article that Dr. Harley talks about the galvanic skin response reader How to Negotiate When you are an Emotional Person
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/07/22 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Here is the article that Dr. Harley talks about the galvanic skin response reader How to Negotiate When you are an Emotional Person

Thank you!
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/26/22 11:02 PM
We’ve encountered a problem with me husband’s new job. The job was supposed to be remote for awhile. The exact wording in the employment offer was “this will be a remote position with the possibility of going hybrid or in-person in the future.” That was basically the same as his previous job, and though we really wanted a permanently remote position, after going three months without an offer we really couldn’t afford to pass this job up.

Now, after only a week, the company did a complete about face and told my husband yesterday that he had to come into the office in person today and that he would be working full time in the office from now on. Needless to say, we were floored. My husband has worked remotely for the past two years and, even though it’s obviously still possible to have an affair while working from home (he had two during that time - one emotional and one EA/PA) obviously there’s a lot more opportunity while working in an office. His company is based in California and for their Utah employees they just rent a few offices in a shared-space building with a lot of people working in individual offices for a number of companies. So my husband will be working in a large office building with employees from his company and many others. He has no choice if he wants to keep the position, they made that perfectly clear. And since Utah is a right-to-work state there’s really nothing he can do about the abrupt change in terms. They can fire him for no reason at all at any time.

Neither of us are comfortable with the situation. I’ve been dealing with anxiety and depression all day, which has made doing my own job extremely difficult. Even though it isn’t what we hoped for, my husband is continuing his job search in hopes of finding a better position that will be permanently remote. Meanwhile, he has to stay at this job until he finds something else. After three months living off my income alone we just can’t afford for him to quit without something else lined up. I’m trying to figure out how to navigate this situation until we can solve the problem. My husband is doing what he can and has called and texted me multiple times throughout the day, but I’m still struggling. I’m looking for advice on how best to deal with the situation?
Posted By: BrainHurts Re: My husband had another affair - 01/27/22 03:29 AM
Have you thought about emailing the Harleys?
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 01/31/22 01:31 AM
Originally Posted by BrainHurts
Have you thought about emailing the Harleys?

I hadn’t really given it much thought. I could do this. It seems daunting to attempt to explain this whole mess, which is probably why I didn’t initially consider it.

I will write the email. Right now, I’m dealing with crippling anxiety about my husband’s work situation. I’ve been having an extremely difficult time functioning and I still have my own job to maintain and my daughter to care for. I’m not doing well at the moment.
Posted By: LongWayFromHome Re: My husband had another affair - 01/31/22 10:52 PM
If you link your thread, they can read your background.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 02/01/22 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by LongWayFromHome
If you link your thread, they can read your background.

Trying to figure out how to do that? The problem is, I can only access the forum on my phone. It no longer works on my very old MacBook. But I need to use the computer to write the email. Right now, I’ve just been posting on the forum through my iPhone which is tedious. I get a “this site is not secure” warning when I try to go on the MB site on my computer and it blocks the site.
Posted By: happyheart Re: My husband had another affair - 02/04/22 06:10 AM
You can usually overrule that by clicking on: show me the reasons and the certificate and then making an exception.
Posted By: happyheart Re: My husband had another affair - 02/04/22 06:11 AM
And also you can write wonderful emails on the iphone by using speech input.
Posted By: writer1 Re: My husband had another affair - 02/04/22 06:03 PM
Originally Posted by happyheart
And also you can write wonderful emails on the iphone by using speech input.

I’ve never tried that before. I’ve been typing here with my thumb, which gets tedious.

I did try overriding the security problem on my computer but it wouldn’t let me. I can do it on some sites but not others.
Posted By: SugarCane Re: My husband had another affair - 02/04/22 07:38 PM
Originally Posted by writer1
I get a “this site is not secure” warning when I try to go on the MB site on my computer and it blocks the site.
You need to clear your cache to get rid of this warning and block.
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