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Originally Posted by goody2shoes
How many hours UA a week do you schedule? Do you hit the 15 hour mark every week? What are your top 3 EN and are they met?


We’re getting 2-3 official dates outside of the home a week, usually 4-5 hours each. We take walks together every other day for about an hour. Put our daughter to bed around 8:30 and spend 1-2 hours together before we go to sleep either talking, reading, or meeting the need for SF.

My top three EN’s are Openness and Honesty, Conversation, and Recreational Companionship, with Sexual Fulfillment and Affection rounding out the top five. I do feel like my needs are being met. Obviously, only two months out from D-day O&H is a huge concern still. My husband is being very open and honest now, but he wasn’t for a very long time, so I’m still having major trust issues even though he is accounting for all of his time and has given me access to all of his accounts (he deactivated FB and completely shut down the email address they used to communicate).

I’m still getting visuals of them together whenever we are intimate. It’s less frequent now and less intense, but I’d like to figure out how to stop them altogether. I am trying hard to redirect my thoughts whenever it happens, but it is something I still struggle with. I wasn’t sure if Dr. Harley had addressed this somewhere?


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Originally Posted by writer1
[I’m still getting visuals of them together whenever we are intimate. It’s less frequent now and less intense, but I’d like to figure out how to stop them altogether. I am trying hard to redirect my thoughts whenever it happens, but it is something I still struggle with. I wasn’t sure if Dr. Harley had addressed this somewhere?


It s very common to have those thoughts during intimacy. Time is the best healer and, of course, creating a great marriage that is safe.


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Reading this thread is very saddening.


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Originally Posted by writer1
Originally Posted by SugarCane
Please don't characterise our warnings as not supporting you, just because they are not what you want to hear.

I am willing to make whatever changes are necessary. My husband is too. But I'm seeing a lot of advice here to go immediately to Plan B/Divorce. I don't know how that would help in my desire to recover my marriage. I am not ready to give up on my marriage yet.

These are the things we are doing:

1. Reading several MB books including "Surviving an Affair" and "His Needs, Her Needs."
2. Going through the various MB questionnaires together.
3. Spending way more than 15 hours of UA time together each week and meeting each other's EN's.
4. WH has given me complete access to all of his devices and accounts and I monitor them daily.
5. WH does nothing by himself other than go to work. He calls me on breaks/lunch. He changed jobs so that he now works in the same town we live in instead of 50 miles away. Affair did not involve his workplace. OW lives over 200 miles away, so no opportunity for a chance encounter.
6. Affair was exposed on D-day to family and close friends.
7. No contact letter sent (by me since my husband did not want to contact her at all so he sent me her final emails).

If I'm missing anything, I am open to suggestions. We've basically been dedicating all of our time and energy to trying to get our marriage back on track since D-day.


In 2019 you proclaimed you were open to suggestions, but kept listing the suggestions you were not open to.

Nothing changes until writer1 changes.


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I’ve labeled myself a serial cheater because I am.

He has admitted to it now, writer.

Originally Posted by Dr. Harley
So whenever the spouse of someone with multiple affairs asks me what he or she can do to help save their marriage, I must tell them that the procedures we recommend will work for those who want to stop cheating. Our program will help them achieve that objective. But if they don't want to follow our program, I have to assume that they will continue to have affairs for the rest of their lives. And their spouses should assume the same thing. To avoid the suffering that comes with infidelity, I encourage them to divorce as soon as possible.
What to Do with a Serial Cheater

Your husband:
1. Admits to being a serial cheater
2. Hasn't followed the program
3. Has had multiple chances to follow the program, and still doesn't

You must, for your own sake, assume that he will continue to have affairs for the rest of his life. You will continue to be subjected to this pain. To avoid this suffering, Dr. Harley would recommend you divorce him as soon as possible.


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We met and had physical relations twice (Nov 2020 and July 2021) in the year and a half period of time.
How is this possible in a marriage with a WH who is following the MB program of recovery?

He's hasn't been following the program. He never will, writer. He will throw you a bone by confessing, and showing up on this board for a moment, and maybe meet a few of your needs here and there. But he will never follow extraordinary precautions. He has no intention of doing so. When your back is turned, he will do this to you again.


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We, then, moved out of state and after a few months at my new job in April 2020, I started an emotional affair with a co-worker who was friendly and open to personal messaging that involved inappropriate conversation, and even inappropriate pictures sent via email. This affair ended by her not responding to my messages though I did in October (2021) reach out only to see if she was okay. She did reply back by guessing someone else. When I told her who it was, she said hello, I’ve not heard from her again and I’ve not reached back out to her.

Another affair started with a different former girlfriend from high school in May 2020. This started as a catch-up session via email, but the conversations turned inappropriate within a couple of weeks. We met and had physical relations twice (Nov 2020 and July 2021

In an MB marriage, none of this is possible. In a marriage that follows extraordinary precautions, your spouse cannot start "personal messaging" and then go on to "reach out." There are no "catch-up sessions" with former girlfriends. It certainly doesn't escalate to a physical meetup not once, but twice. BECAUSE YOU WILL KNOW ALMOST IMMEDIATELY that extraordinary precautions have been violated. A secret second life does not exist in a marriage where the wayward spouse is actually wanting to follow the program.

Your husband really doesn't care if you find out about his affairs. This is why he confesses. He doesn't care because:
1.He knows he's not going to lose you
2. As a serial cheater, it's not the relationship with the affair partner that matters to him. It's the win. It's the "getting as many as he can get." By the time he's confessing the affair to you, he's already done with that affair partner and is ready to move on to the next.


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Please read serial cheaters


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Too much hurt and pain on both sides that my brain hurts just thinking about it all.



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Hi, writer1. I hope you're reading you're husband's thread. And I hope you'll take this to heart: I didn't get any better until Prisca told me I couldn't come home until I could guarantee her that it would never happen again.

There is nothing to be optimistic about, here. Don't whistle in the dark like you have before.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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Looks like someone revived my thread.

I’ve read the article on serial cheaters many times, including in the past several weeks.

I would like to point out that my husband was never really on board with MB in the past. When I first found this forum after my own affair and started posting here, he was actively against the program and felt my posting on the forum was doing me more harm than good, which is why I ultimately left. I briefly returned in 2019 and, though my husband was willing to do some reading in Surviving an Affair, he still wasn’t entirely on board with MB. Now, I realize why.

I’m staying in my marriage for now, but proceeding with an abundance of caution. I haven’t made any definitive decisions yet. I must say, something feels different this time. My husband is much more open to MB than he’s ever been in the past. Instead of my having to take the lead and try to repair the damage that’s been done (which I feel like I did after my own affair and his affairs as well) he’s actually taking an active role now in attempting to change. I understand the skepticism. I’m certainly skeptical myself. But I’m here and I can see the difference in his attitude and his actions that may not be apparent on a forum like this. I’m carefully watching everything he says and does and basically taking a Missouri approach to this entire thing - show me. I’m not ready yet to throw away 28 years of a life together, but I disagree that my husband believes he can do anything he wants at all without having to worry about losing me. I think he realizes now how precariously close to the edge he is and that it wouldn’t take much to push me over that cliff. I’m not a fool, even though a lot of people here seem to assume that I am. My eyes are wide open and I’m fully aware of the odds my marriage is facing at this point.

For now, we’re reading Surviving an Affair together. We’re spending time together and talking in a way we haven’t in years. I’m monitoring his online activity and have access to all of his accounts. I’m confident this latest affair is over. I exposed it to the OW’s husband immediately and we’ve been in contact and he is monitoring things on his end. My husband wrote her a no contact letter the day he told me about the affair. It seems he was very ready to be done with the relationship and with the entire burden of constantly attempting to live a double life. He has apologized for his behavior and seems genuinely embarrassed by what he has done. He’s been reading (on his own) about pathological lying and serial cheating and has admitted to having a problem. That’s always a necessary first step. I support him in this journey of self-discovery and change, whether or not our marriage ultimately survives.

I’m taking things one day at a time and not rushing into any decisions as I’ve done in the past. That’s what I feel I need to do right now, whether or not anyone else agrees with me. I’m trying to take care of myself and be gentle with myself. I had a rough couple of weeks after I first found out where I wasn’t eating or sleeping and was barely able to function. I’m in a better place mentally now. I know my husband’s actions are no reflection on me or on my worth as a human being and that, whatever happens, I will be okay. I will survive this. I love my husband and I always will. I hope he chooses to be the man I know he can be, the man I’ve seen him stepping up and being these past few weeks. But I also know that ultimately, it’s up to him what kind of person he wants to be. I can’t change him. I do believe he can change himself. And I can establish boundaries and decide how I will or will not be treated going forward in the future. I can decide I will not be lied to or cheated on or disrespected anymore. So that’s what I’m doing. Maybe I’ll end up doing it in a healthy recovered marriage and maybe I’ll end up doing it on my own. Time will tell.


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I feel pretty confident in saying that nobody is really surprised by this response of yours.

You are saying the same things you said in 2019, which were the same things you said before that.

He was never really onboard with MB ... THIS time he is ... you're reading SAA together ... you're having UA ... you have access to all his accounts and monitor his online activity ... you're confident that the affair is over ....

It's all the same stuff, writer. Go back and read your own threads if you don't believe me.

Nothing has changed.


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I’m taking things one day at a time and not rushing into any decisions as I’ve done in the past.
10+ years is hardly rushing things.


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For now, we’re reading Surviving an Affair together.

A man who is reading SAA should be able to answer the question about what precautions he is taking, and not mistake emotional needs for extraordinary precautions. It isn't hard. Any wayward can do it.

For the wayward who needs help, we're here to answer questions. He's not even asking questions.

He's not serious.


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Prisca.

We started reading SAA just a few days ago. We’re just about ready to start Chapter 3. I’ve read it before, but my husband has not. No, we never made it very far before because he was not on board with doing it. So I mostly read on my own. My husband is feeling attacked for being expected to know everything about a program before he’s actually had the opportunity to read everything and learn it, which isn’t particularly helpful. Sure he could have and should have done it before, but he didn’t. Now he is. He has admitted we’ve gotten nowhere solving this problem on our own. So we’re going to give MB a try, together, like we should have done years ago, with or without the support of this forum. But with would be highly appreciated. If that isn’t possible, then we’ll stick to the books and articles. We’re also looking into the MB counseling.


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Originally Posted by writer1
So we’re going to give MB a try, together, like we should have done years ago, with or without the support of this forum. But with would be highly appreciated..

That's great! Please let him know he needs to get that todo list posted really quick! We want to help him!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by writer1
We've been reading Surviving an Affair (again).
July, 2019

Originally Posted by writer1
My husband seems much more open to MB now. He's reading the books with me
August 2019

Originally Posted by writer1
My husband was not willing to do MB last time, not the right way at least. But so far, he has been willing to do everything I have asked of him this time.
August 2019

These are your words, not mine.


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My husband is feeling attacked for being expected to know everything about a program before he’s actually had the opportunity to read everything and learn it, which isn’t particularly helpful.

Stop protecting him. If he's serious, wild horses couldn't drag him away. If he's serious, he'll man up and get on here and answer the challenges he's been given. He is not fragile.

It's time for him to get on here and prove he's serious.


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He is NOT being asked to do anything every other wayward has been challenged to do.

Those who buckle under and answer the challenge save their marriages.
Those who balk and cry that it's too hard or too mean, don't.


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writer, we are saying to your husband the things that lead to waywards recovering. Encourage him to come go through it.

One of my best mentors here was a former wayward, HerPapaBear. He taught me so much.

Tell him to get here and become like that. Do the stuff without balking.

He needs to get that todo list made and posted.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
writer, we are saying to your husband the things that lead to waywards recovering. Encourage him to come go through it.

One of my best mentors here was a former wayward, HerPapaBear. He taught me so much.

Tell him to get here and become like that. Do the stuff without balking.

He needs to get that todo list made and posted.

He’s been spending the morning watching some of the Harley’s videos and reading on the website. I think he’s uncomfortable posting right now because he doesn’t know the basics so he wants to at least get a grasp on that so he’ll know what people are asking him.


Me: BS/FWW: 48
BS/WH: 50
DS: 30, 27, 25
DD: 28
OC: 10
BH and I are raising my OC together.
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