Do you have opposing shifts?

If I follow, yes. She cooks during the week and I get the dishes. Weekends, I generally cook and she gets the dishes.

Oh, btw, last night I took my oldest for a drive around the neighborhood to talk about whats going on in the house and see if had any questions.

We talked about what his mom has told him about the relationship and what he brought up was broken promises. So I talked to him about my various cycles of getting help, improving, and then reverting. I connected those cycles to him in experiences that he would remember so he could understand what I was referring to.

We also talked about his mom talking to him during a recent camping trip he was on with his mom and brother. He described his mom telling him that she liked the OM and had feelings for him. I asked if she used the word "love" when talking about the OM and he said yes, but he used "like" because he was worried how Id feel if he used the word "love". I told him not to worry about upsetting me that telling the truth is more important than being temporarily upset.

I then talked to him about marriage, marriage vows, and speaking those vows in front of God, family, and friends. I explained that when people exchange vows they are doing as a promise and commitment to each other. I then talked to him about being faithful and fidelity. He's 12. And when you break that promise and commitment to your spouse you're doing something grave.

I talked some more about affairs and that even when one or both spouses are not happy that an affair is not the answer and is completely wrong. Further that no matter how his mom felt about my role or behaviors in the marriage, that was not an excuse to have an affair.

Lastly, I explained to him that I wasn't having this conversation with him so that he liked me more or mom less or believed me more than his mom, but so that he would know the truth and that when he grows up he'll likely face similar challenges if he gets married and that an affair is never the answer or appropriate. Rather, that he needs to confront behaviors he doesn't like and set boundaries so that others in his life knows what he will tolerate or not.

I wanted to be more heavy-handed on the affair part, but didn't. He's a sweet boy who's always thinking about how to make his surroundings calmer, fun, and harmonious.

What I meant is, do you have opposing work shifts? Does she work out side of the home? What are your work schedules?

You handled this very well and I applaud you. It sounds like you did a good job of being forthright while gauging his reactions. Boys tend to defend their mothers and you did this in a way that did not elicit a defense mode from him. I can't begin to tell you how important it is for betrayed spouses to have this discussion with their children. Many don't, which leaves them wide open to the spin of the wayward spouse. If the BS does not tell them the truth, the WS always tells them lies, leaving the children hopelessly confused. Kids know that adultery is wrong, and when the BS does not validate this, they learn not to trust their instincts. It only causes moral confusion.

Oh, she's a part-time (meaning only during school year) teachers asst - she works as a parapro in a k-3 emotional growth classroom at a local elementary school. So we work about the same hours.

F^&*, another fail this evening. Tried talking to my wife about a refi option on the house just to make sure I wasnt missing something. She observed that with $9k closing costs and $125/month savings that it would take 6 years to break even. She had a look and I asked her about it and she remarked, well, it's your house. I got sucked into a relationship conversation. Baited, really.

She said something along the lines of me not choosing to show in the marriage and, bang, marriage talk. Didn't go well, either, because I get her pity party how I make all the money and the house is mine and she's just trying to get out of this marriage.

In these moments, it's like why the hell bother with any plan except divorce.

But I'm going to stick with it because I'm dumb. Well, no, because I want something and I'll regret not having attempted something but also protecting myself.

I wish I wasn't so dumb in this space.

Oh, and I wasn't just defending myself, I had to doubt what world she was living in as I reacted to her f#$king rewrite of our marital history.

Love buster, love buster, love buster....

Was she trying to tell you something about the marriage that makes her unhappy? It sounds like she doesn't feel she has equal decision making authority in your marriage. I am unclear what happened here.



What do you mean? What did you do?

I don't know.

We bought our home about 18 months ago. Our loan servicer called two months to talk about reducing interest rate. They called today and offered a half percent reduction and that would save about $120 month. It's a no brainier with no cost to us.

Now, my wife isn't on the mortgage. So I texted her about the offer and that I'd be accepting it tonight unless she saw a real problem with it or thought of something I missed.

I started my text to her by noting the awkwardness of bringing it up. Her reply to me:

"It is an awkward time, I'm not sure how to respond. i want to trust that you are doing this in good faith but it doesn't feel like you are. i know you want to stay in the house and and have full custody of the boys, at least that is what you have stated. With this change are you taking my name off everything? it feels like you are paving the road to put me out and take the boys away. The deal looks amazing and would be better financially for the family".

Embedded in the offer is an option to skip a payment in December. And she texts back...
"what do you intend to do with the skip payment in December? can we use it for mediation fees?"

Followed by...
"do the deal since it's a no brainer, is there something you need from me to finalize the transaction?"

I replied back:
"I have no intention with the skip payment. I ran this by you to get feedback. I don't need anything from you for complete the transaction."

To which she replied:
"thanks for asking me and running it by me even though it seems like you can do it without me sounds like you know what you are doing".

So, tonight, to involve her, I asked her to take a look at the offer. She did and asked how long it would take to make up the closing costs? I ran the match and said, 6 years. She had this look like she wanted to say something and I asked her about and she just well, "it's your house". I said, no, its our house to which she replied that, "well, you said you wanted to keep the house". I said, yeah, i want to keep the house, I don't want to give up the house just like I don't want to give up this marriage. Her reply, you mean the marriage you didn't show up in? And off we went. At some point she just said that she's just trying to get out of this marriage.

I dropped a few choice lines about how she is rewriting history to insist that I was 100% bad and chose not show up for the entire marriage and then told I just couldn't understand the reality she thought she was living in. Ugh.


Not asking her to tell me more. Not finding out what she really meant. Not asking her to clarify. I just launched into being defensive and arguing.

Not a good evening.

Ok, I got it. And this is probably a big reason why she checked out. When you are defensive and argumentative when she expresses her concerns you are telling her nothing has changed and giving her more ammunition. She said you had not “showed up for the marriage.” Sure that might be some rewriting of history, but you need to be open to change.

When she says things like that, don’t get into an argument. Tell her, “I don’t want that old marriage back. I want a new marriage where we are both happy. I want to do better and I am willing to do that.”

Just so you know (and I really need you to take this to heart), a complaint is an opportunity for change in a good marriage and an irritation in a bad marriage. When I tell my husband something is wrong, he fixes it that day. And vice versa. We don’t fight or get defensive. Let that soak in: a complaint is an opportunity for improvement.

Can you refresh my memory? Have either of you filed for divorce?

I read that whole thread and did not see any recovery. The thread ended abruptly with a mutual restraining order and her and him living together in separate rooms. Did his story continue in another thread?

It seems he suffered from constantly talking about the marriage and the relationship and kept getting back a wall of I don't love you, I'm done, it's too late, and a spouse who continued to cheat. That's not an inspiring thread about the success of Plan A.

A complaint is an opportunity for improvement. Got it.

I have said multiple times in the past 3 months that I don't want that old marriage back. It usually comes up when she asks why I want to stay in this marriage and I reply that I don't, that I want a different marriage where we are committed to each other, feel love, care, and safety together.

But that leads to a question - when she asks why do I want to stay married to her or why do I want to stay in this marriage - does she really want an answer? She's asked several times and I have provided a lengthy reply to both questions. In fact, now I just reply that I've already answered that or those questions

No, however, she has scheduled a mediation appointment and signed herself up for the required parenting classes and is waiting for me to do the same.

Re: Exposure - should I call her parents and siblings or send an email? I'm going to text or Facebook PM her close friends and teacher friends.

Also, since the OM has initiated no contact with my wife, why am I exposing to his family and friends? His wife is already well aware and I understand that she asked him to go no contact and he responded by telling my wife no contact and scheduled counseling for he and his wife.

Oh duh, I gave you the wrong thread. Sorry about that! It is here https://forum.marriagebuilders.com/...91622/wife-wont-admit-to-the-affair.html

What you described above was an argumentative response to her complaint. That is a huge problem. I would address that with her today. Tell her that you are sorry you argued about her concerns and tell her you will take her complaints seriously in the future.


If my husband blew me off with "I have already answered that" I would be very upset. Don't blow her off. Tell her why but don't be lengthy and avoid any psychobabble talk.

What is your answer? Can you give me an elevator speech of your answer?

I would not cooperate with this at all. If she wants to tear apart your marriage, she should do it all alone, not with your help. Don't contribute to your own demise. I would tell her this:

"I have been thinking about all this divorce business and have had a change of heart. I don't want a divorce because I love you and want to have a happy marriage. I am willing to work on that with you but I am not willing to go along with mediation. I know I can't stop you from divorcing me but that doesn't mean I have to go along with this. "

What you are doing is buying time. She is going forward with all this because she is still fogged out. The affair is already crumbling and your exposure will - hopefully - be the nail in the coffin. But she won't be fogged out after awhile. Why go through this completely unnecessary exercise? It is not a virtue to help your wife tear up your marriage. I would back out of this entirely.


It is best to call close family members. And BE SURE and ask them for their help. I can't tell you how imporatnt that is. You WANT them to call her up and people are more likely to help and respond positively if you start off by ASKING FOR HELP. Your line about not needing their help in your first exposure letter was counterproductve for that reason. [and because counselors are worthless in these situations, family members CAN HELP]


Just because he asked for no contact, at the request of his wife, doesn't mean he won't contact her if the spirit moves him. Rarely do 1st requests for no contact actually work. You want to keep him away forever. The more people who know, the more people to hold him accountable. The more people who know, the more people will watch their marriages around this guy. Interestingly, in several past facebook exposures of the OP, it was discovered the OP was having affairs with wives of other friends. Exposing him helps ensure he stays away forever. OM are punks and don't like trouble.

Let me explain this another way. She is the falling down drunk who has decided to get divorced because you interfered with her drinking. She won't feel the same way after she sobers up, though. That is why you don't ROLL OVER for a divorce. Make her work for every step of it if she really wants a divorce. I don't think she really wants one or she would have already separated and filed.

I would also think that if she really wanted to she would have ,except that she can't afford to retain a lawyer and file, hence the mediation route.

But I will, this weekend after exposure, tell her I will not be attending the mediation session that she scheduled. I will,though, attend the parenting classes with her and our kids. Those classes may generally be helpful anyway.

In Plan A, should I be letting her know that my expectations are? In other words, success in Plan A for me include her drafting a NC letter to the OM; displaying remorse for the pain and suffering she's caused me and the boys through her affair; and a door open toward R.

Does she need to know these things before I start Plan A?