I have finally ordered the program, however, I am in such a state I am unsure it will work, more like he will work. To be honest, he has to do something, I'm tired of looking over my shoulder.
I was very naive when we got married 40 years ago. Still tend to be too trusting.
We get along well, have fun together in my view.
I love him but main problem...
I have a serial cheater on my hands that I feel I have enabled by forgiving several times. Years ago (17) I printed many pages from your site and gave him to read but of course only read a couple pages.
I am always expected to just have good make up sex and forget about it.
I shall call them flings, the ones I know about.
First fling 3 months after marriage I can't remember if before or right after first child but think before, pregnant at 6 month marriage. 2nd was 3 yr later but the female was exceptional and came to me telling me my husband was heavily flirting and she knew what he wanted.
Still against the rules, for me anyway.
4? Or 5 years later again, and again. By 13 years in there were 4 times, I lose count, that I know about, after the last severely devastating we moved. She even told me things is how I know he lies, we were friends but if I mentioned he needed to be careful, I just over react.
Got pretty bad regarding her and her version.
Didn't take long but in the past 17 years now there have been 7 more incidences. (Gaslighter)
Every time I am over reacting, he denies, and always says he was not cheating, didn't do anything wrong.
I have the feeling he only considers actual vaginal intercourse as cheating. Which he has had but still in denial. He is becoming more open to flirt "very" heavily, again, says we are just talking, I don't remember, I didn't see you, I didn't hear you.
One woman actually moved.
He has allowed one of the women to speak and tell me she does everything but have sex, standing less or about 3' from him. He knew what was going on but didn't say a word, allowed her to do it.
2 women later, he is showing actions in front of me. (3 times now known/witnessed by public or friends) This time very open in public but still swears he does nothing wrong even though in texts he was heavily flirting "with" intention. No way you can miss that as a woman but he says he never meant it that way.
Remember he's a gaslighter.
His constant lies, even when I know the answer to a question, simple questions has led to NO trust what so ever. I have lost my temper (2 weeks ago) about it and know I shouldn't have but good lord I have told him enough is enough i got loud and said just stop with the lies. (Already knew answer to question) I have enabled by forgiving and having a good marriage between incidents for the most part.
There is a possibility his porn use may contribute to flings and other. We have not watched porn together now for a few years but i know he does without me.
I am not a porn fan but feel I am just there as a warm body afterwards.
Sex is rare anymore, 4 to 6 weeks.
The lies cause much anger and resentment much less zero respect and remorse. If he would tell the truth I'm not sure I would know it. My anger from the lies is sometimes almost out of control so I put us on a text/email talk so I could think about what I say. I am a very blunt overly honest type and I can't be normal because of having to be nice and cautious.
I can't get past the lies!
I need to know he will stop or I'm done. I'm tired of being the only one reaching out to fix what he feels is okay to do.
He should know right from wrong.
I'm sure if he joins the forum he will know this is me but no worries on my part I don't care at this point. However, I dont feel he has a real interest in fixing things. He says he does but actions speak louder than words. If we text/mail its at least a 24 to 36 hour response, but has been busy. I feel he is either being led or looking up things so he can give the response he "thinks" I want to hear.
Writing is my way of venting.

i'm sorry this happened to you. Please know that this was not your fault. Of course he knows he is doing something wrong! I was married to a serial cheater for 30 years. Here is what you need to know

- serial cheaters are quite different from people who accidentally have an affair. They are addicted to the chase/ bed not to the person.
- serial cheaters get better over time. My XH could go from sitting next to a stranger to getting her into bed in less than 2 hours.
- they always gaslight, as do all addicts.

Dr Harley told me that the only way to be married to a serial cheater is to be with him 24/7. No separations ever. That did not work for me as he had a job. Anyway, by then I hated him.


I got divorced and met wonderful man very quickly. We have now been blissfully happily married for 10 years. He, on the other hand, has never got over my departure . .


-

Thank you. I'm tired of looking over my shoulder. This week will determine what happens. Our course should be here tomorrow and will see if he shows an interest. Unfortunately either way it will take several months to sort and separate things. Actions speak louder than words.

Sorry to hear this sad story. With a serial cheater, it doesn't sound like there's much there to salvage. You have perfectly valid grounds for leaving if that is what you choose to do.

Here is a good read Serial Cheaters

What to do when they feel they have done nothing wrong.

my husband has had many "flings"/ flirting incidences. The most amazing thing is every time this happens he says "nothing happened". Most recently was a situation where he openly send "leading" texts to a woman and invited her to a fundraising banquet for a prominent 501C. We know lots of people. He spent the entire evening with other woman, his childs age above all. (our kids are older) when i finally diid walk up he was immediately upset that i was there. i had to lightly smack/tap his arm to get his attention. night goes on he ends up in a compromising position, i get upset.

My point is all of his flings he always denies and says nothing happens but if i ask again there is always some detail that is different. this is EVERY time and there have been several. It appears in the program it's all about taking the steps to rekindle a relationship. It touches on honesty but in now way enough. We did the personal history questionaire when i feel he did not open up and tell the truth, i believe it was minimized. as normal.

I feel that I end up leading him to his answers. he does not feel his texts were wrong. however he did say he was sorry for hurting me. amazing cause he normally does not apologize. How do you apologize for something you see no wrong in.

Each and every time he says that it has only led to a kiss. I know for a fact that is incorrect.

The most damaging one of all which had led the fling to feel like she could verbally intimidate me, this dude has balls enough to say he cannot remember the night, or her, or anything about her. I am appauled!!!!!!!!!!
HOW do you NOT remember, this is insane!!!!!!!!!

How to get them to understand their actions are wrong?
how to get the truth instead of tidbits he thinks i need to know?
Will he ever tell the truth?
What's the point of finishing the program knowing this is going to happen again?
If you feel there is nothing wrong with your actions why would you apologize for it?
IF you cannot think of or find a "cause" of said fling, if there is no cause what is there to fix?
Is the program mainly just about moving on with no closure or no known fix to the problem? but wait, i forget he see's no problem.
I am wondering if going through all this is worth it or not. I do not want to have to look over my shoulder all the time.

Are you going to file for divorce?

CrushedSoul,

I'm sorry to hear about the problems in your marriage. You said it right in your first post, he's gaslighting you, which is typical for a serial cheater. His lies and evasions are just methods to keep you off balance, to keep you questioning your own perceptions, in order to get you so mentally exhausted that you drop the subject again. You are spinning your wheels. Stop expending tremendous amounts of emotional energy trying to get him to tell the truth. Serial cheaters never come clean and their secret second life can only be maintained with a web of lies.

I strongly recommend contacting Dr. Harley for his advice on how to proceed.

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will receive a call to explain the procedure.

I agree with abrrba. Please write Dr. Haley and let us know.