Hello,

I am in need of desperate help. I'll begin saying I got married to my wife about 16 years ago, we have young children. After marrying I discovered she had a past with trauma that caused her to suffer with a disorder. From our dating relationship, throughout our marriage we had no intimacy I was deprived of sex and found out she had been having sex with a lot of men, the number is unknown between 50 and 100 over the time. It was out of her trauma, I didn't understand it at the time but I do now. Her trauma had caused her to act out in abnormal ways. Our relationship became extremely toxic and abusive. We fought and fought over it, I was very traumatised by the whole experience. It was an intense attack on me and the family and it got to a stage where I thought someone could get hurt. The children experiencing the fighting caused a lot of fear in them, needless to say I decided something had to be done and I decided we needed to end it. I gave up on years of trying to make something work.

I was too afraid to tell her that it's over, in fear that it would cause us to fight and in the separation it would get worse, it would become a war and the children would suffer more. So instead, I took time away so that we could both recover and the fighting stop and maybe we could start healing and get a long. However I didn't tell her that in my mind it was over.

So I started spending time away from the house, I took days and weeks at a time. In this time I started to learn myself and understand her more. Because I was out of the traumatic situation I was able to see a lot clearer.

I happened to meet someone, and I couldn't believe this person actually liked me since the whole ordeal left me thinking I was absolutely useless that my own spouse couldn't and wouldn't want her needs met by me. Over a few months, a relationship formed with this person, I started to heal parts of myself I developed a huge amount of compassion for her and her for me. We fell in love and developed a deep love. I opened up to my spouse about the new person. I started to realize that being honest is the only way, in my brokenness I was too afraid to tell her I'm leaving. However, in my healing I have found God, Jesus and in the time the same happened to her. She found God she found Jesus and we both became born again. The kids are in a safer place, they are healing and close to her for the first time. I am 100% convinced she is fully healed and trustworthy. She has completely transformed and changed as a person. I care for her deeply, I am so grateful she has healed. She has become a whole woman and I have come a long way. I understand God wants healing and he has been doing that in both of us. My wrongness came from the fact that I hid and did not tell her I was leaving, I hid the other relationship for a few months. I deceived her and when met another person I wasn't fully honest about how the relationship grew. It happened that I opened up about it and she was completely understanding. She cares for me as well and we both want the right thing. We don't fight anymore, we can easily be friends and the kids around whole people that love them.

I am stuck in a terrible situation now, that I have no idea what to do. I feel like there is hope, a chance that now we are healed and both have God. We could make it work? We could restore the family. I have fears it would be going backward, I have fears about attraction because I only had some attraction to her in the first 2 months of dating at most but with all the years of trauma it's been ruined. We have never really been in love. I trust that God can restore all those things and they are just fears. But I am in a terrible situation where the person I have met is dear to me. I care for her deeply, I love her, we have had a sexual relationship, she loves me incredibly. She is loyal, trustworthy and gives her all. We have attraction and I feel alive and whole, loved and accepted. It would be a new marriage if I was to peruse that. But I am afraid if I continue that path, I am concerned if the children will be affected. I am anxious that if it's wrong in the eyes of the lord. I have intense pain when I think of leaving and breaking her heart I don't know how to cope with it. She has been true to me.

If I tried with my spouse again, I know that it would take several months for me to recover from heartache and over the fact of hurting someone elses feelings in the most deepest of ways. The level of compassion to this new person and love is immense and I don't know if it's wrong for me to brutally cut ties. It's gone on for about 1 and half years now. We've focused on God, brought each other closer to God and I feel somewhat wrong to rip that all up and say bye. I don't know what to do. On the one hand I can see it is great for the kids, where they have two parents that are whole and a father in a relationship they can actually get to see him like that. But I am not sure about the split causing pain to the children and effect their lives in ways that bother me. I want them to be ok. I want everyone to be ok. I need serious help I am torn into pieces over this.

Please ask me anything, I have a lot of anxiety. I am all open for God, what he wants I need wisdom. I have a lot of fear.

One of the things that happened is when I met this person she showed me I was someone that can be accepted and loved. That I really could be attractive, I was so convinced I must have been a useless incapable man so disgusting that my own spouse became desperate to have her needs met, that I just wasn't capable of meeting any womans needs. I don't know how I could have realized I was wrong about myself if I hadn't experienced someone actually liking me that way. Maybe God would have shown me, I don't know because I was so lost I think I would have gone from bad to worse unless something happened that showed me I can be a man someone wanted.

Now that I realized that, my eyes opened more about the issue my spouse actually had and I developed a lot of compassion for her.

I have so much compassion for everyone that I want everyone to be ok. I know I should think about myself as well, but what I personally want is everyone to be ok. The level of pain I feel for leaving the person I'm with now is very intense, I feel like it would crush her and be very damaging. I don't care so much for my own heart break I know it will be intense, I care about other people.

I want to add that my care for my spouse and her care for me is just as big, we both hope our family could be restored. I care a lot for her and the children so much, I am not too fussed over attraction because I believe dr Harleys methods will work. I am just torn about what to do if I should leave this person and try restore my family or not.

I am in such turmoil and anxiety. I am under a lot of pressure, I took time away to be on my own so I could get to the bottom of this, find an answer to peruse and have some peace going forward. I need peace either way I go, I need peace for my family if I remain with this person. I need peace over missing my spouse she is a lovely person now that she is healed. I need peace if we try again, I won't have regrets over leaving someone special.

I have no idea what to do.

Long story short: You have been in an affair for 1.5 years and you are asking us whether you should stay with your wife or leave with the other woman.

You should be aware that this site is Marriage Builders. As you will know if you have read Dr Harley's materials as you say you have, all of his infidelity advice is aimed at ending the affair and rebuilding the marriage.

Also, if you have read through the threads on this forum, you will have noticed that it is full of betrayed spouses who suffered greatly through an affair. Where any unfaithful spouses stay around after their initial posts, they have renounced their affairs and worked to restore their marriage. In short, nobody on Dr Harley's forum is likely to advise you to leave your wife and continue your affair. In fact, it is very insensitive for you to come here hoping for any support for the cruelty you are inflicting, and would continue to inflict, on your wife. We have been through affairs with spouses who, when discovered, made every kind of justification, and no justification makes any difference to the hurt and the wrong of an affair. If you are deeply unhappy in your marriage, you should communicate this to your spouse. If the marriage is still unbearable, then leave it first (which means divorcing) before committing adultery.


God had nothing to do with your adultery, as you well know if you have found Him as you say.

If, as you seem to be planning - since you have posted in the Divorcing section of the forum - you want to leave your wife and go with this other woman, you do not need anyone's approval to do it, and you are unlikely to get such approval here.

If you want advice on building your marriage into a romantic, satisfying, and enduring relationship, you must start with ending all contact with the other woman. She is not a good person as she is in a relationship with a married man who is hurting his wife and children, so you need to stop feeling sorry for her.

Thank you for the advice,

I'm not seeking approval, I need help dealing with the right choices. I agree it was wrong of me as I concealed the relationship, my spouse having affairs didn't make it right for me to lie to her and take part in the same type of behavior. She never knew I was involved with someone. I decided it was over thinking I had no other option after years trying, it was unbearable and believed I had no choice other than leaving.

We live in separate states, when I left, I moved to a different state where I met someone. I did not tell her about the relationship, until very recently. The new person and I have been living together for the last 1.5 years.

I left now and telling her it's for work, I need to be alone for a few days. My eldest son is distant from me because I left, I feel guilt and don't want him making the same mistakes as me.

Have you thought about emailing Dr. Harley?

No I don't know how to, how can I email him?

I have emailed him, I hope he finds my email! Thank you.

I have emailed Bill Harley... I am not sure which Dr harley to email?

Good.

Did you email him at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the broadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will receive a call to explain the procedure.

Thank you so much

If I am understanding you correctly, you are sharing with us that she has been cheating on you with 50-100 men over the past 16 years? If this is correct, has your wife been professionally evaluated for any Cluster "B" personality disorders such as HPD and/or BPD (a.k.a. EUPD)?




I agree with you, your children's emotional welfare should also be made a priority.




For your particular situation taking a break is biblically sound; however, being mindful of the 50-100 cheating incidents that you describe, I would recommend seeking the help of a licensed therapist to ask yourself the question why you stayed when your WW cheated on you 50-100 times?




You indicate that you 'need serious help' - I agree, the best help you can get is from a licensed individual therapist for yourself. It also sounds like you have a lot of codependent traits, like people pleasing, and not wanting to hurt anyone, yet if you stay in this situation you will hurt one or more people.

I can understand how you became in your current situation; however, I cannot tell you what to do. You cannot serve two women (your wife and this 'someone') someone will get hurt.




It is okay to get help. I personally have an individual therapist, my wife has her own individual therapist, and we both have a couple's therapist, we see each of them regularly. While my situation is not as severe as yours, I think (I am not a professional, just a peer mentor) I recognize that you need more help than the scope of the HNHN program as there is a lot of unresolved trauma that needs to be addressed on all sides.

What do you think?

Thank you Sailor, that's correct she had a major personality disorder. I say had because I fully believe she's recovered.

The reason why I stayed while she had affairs is basic, I believed I wouldn't have a chance with anyone else and that everyone will cheat on me. However, the biggest reason was I didn't want my kids left alone with her, I wasn't guaranteed custody so I stayed for them.

The cure to her healing was no judgment. A safe and loving environment for her to open up and be loved. This happened, although only after I decided to leave. When I left the environment was safe for both of us, I was heavily traumatized by everything. I don't know how we survived it all. So we have both recovered from the trauma side of all that happened, and we are more whole than we've ever been. We've forgiven each other and understand.

I didn't understand the depth of her issue because my resentment was intense, I didn't know how to see through it. I was too far in my own shame to understand her or give her a safe place. I just battered her with blame all the time. Leaving gave the safe place and things improved quickly.

Our history isn't a problem anymore, we freely and safely talk open about it which has been great for all the epiphanies. We have no judgment to each other.

So that's all well, when I left, I had no idea what else I could do. Things were horrid I feared someone would get hurt, so I left and is when I met someone. I was so low in my confidence that I would never have thought someone would find me attractive. When it happened, I was surprised and it showed me a lot of the things I thought about myself due to what I experienced were not true, she acted out of her trauma it wasn't me.

Either way, me leaving had some positives ie healing from what happened. I didn't intend to meet someone, my foolishness here was that I never set boundaries, I didn't think I needed any. My second bad choice is when I left, I lied and did not tell her my intention was that it was over, she was misled by me to think we were working on things, while I just wanted us to work on ourselves. I have huge remorse over this. I feared her knowing it was over would send her into more destructive behavior. I feared for my children if that happened. So, I left hoping everything would settle and then we'd get along for everyone's sake. Which happened, but I didn't realize that after that I'd have new hope again.

So all the above his not an issue anymore, we're forgiven and we have no resentment. That's all out the way.

I agree with you I can't serve two people. This is the problem, the situation I'm left with and I feel stuck. This is where I don't know what to do, or how to decide which way to turn. My wife and I talk about it a lot. She's incredible and I'm grateful to her. I understand your saying I'm codependent because I don't care much for my own needs, I care everyone else is happy. I can't help it because I care deeply for everyone, my own self-worth does not rely on anyone else either anymore. I simply have a deep care for everyone. My wife will be ok, the kids I feel will be okay, but the main problem here I struggle with is their ideas on what a marriage should look like, their ideas are warped, and I don't know yet how to fix that. I

t's a choice between the kids and their beliefs or the person I'm with. If everyone is ok, I am happy. Personally, I think anyone would want a family reconciled. I'm not sure if that's wise or not. I also fear if I leave and she is destroyed the kind of impact this will have on me, will it put me back into a dark place.

For the person I'm with, I feel extremely responsible. The hurt it would cause her is serious, which I don't know how to deal with. My desire is for her to be ok, if she's able to let go I can be free to reconcile without struggling over her suffering. I don't really care about romantic attraction; I'm attracted to her and haven't been to my wife but this isn't a problem for me because I understand the program will work. This is about the care side of it, the agape love if you will.

I care about what's right, not what I want. I know on the face of it what's right seems to cut ties and reconcile. It's not so simple, it feels too cruel and I don't know how to live with that. We committed and made promise, she has given her whole heart everything. I love her very much I feel responsible for caring for her. I'm in a tug of war not over what I want, but over who needs me and who gets hurt the least.

There are a few major issues with your marital history.

I don't think you can know about the huge number of affairs she had and not think about the effect this has had on your feelings for her. And by the way, how did you find out that she'd had so many affairs? Did you find out about them all at once, after most of them were over, or did you discover them while each one was running? How was she able to meet all these men, and did you have any idea at the time that she was doing this?

In another post you say this:

It is my (non-expert) understanding that personality disorders are part of the way an individual is made, and they cannot be cured. And to be know that a person has a disorder, they have to be diagnosed by a qualified practitioner. Has your wife been diagnosed by a doctor? I can't believe she could have "fully recovered" from this major personality disorder, and certainly not by your taking a non-judgemental approach. What is the name of her disorder? Could you tell us more about her condition and how it has been medically diagnosed and treated?

I wonder whether you are using that explanation as an excuse to not deal with how unfaithful she was, and to tell yourself that the affairs are no further problem.

You need to tell us the rest of this story. Let's ignore the fact for now that you didn't just "happen to meet someone"; a relationship was cultivated. I'm more interested for now in whether you still see or communicate in any way with this woman. You must surely realise that your feelings for her are interfering with your feelings for your wife.

I'm hoping to private message you if that's ok? But it wont allow me to message, is there any other way I can share more personal info to you directly?

There are good reasons why MB has disabled private messaging. It would highly inappropriate for you, a married man, to privately message with me, a married woman, especially to talk about your marriage and your unhappiness. Other forums have had affairs started in that way.

Second, I'm not an expert. If we were able to take our communications off line, you'd be getting your only source of help - which I freely admit is of a dubious nature - from someone who does not know how to deal with your situation. For example, I have no idea whether your marriage can recover after 50-100 affairs. I often admit that I don't know the answer to a poster's question, and I always recommend that in those difficult cases they contact Dr Harley directly. He always helps - there is no such thing to him as too many emails. The only problem could be that they are going to spam and not reaching him. You should not give up trying. Also, check your own spam box.

That point is linked to my next, which is that if you post here, you will get more than one person's point of view. Traffic is rather slow on the board these days, but if anyone lurking sees that you are getting incorrect advice, they will post and say why. Also, your situation will be relevant to someone else one day, and they can read and see how MB helped.

Lastly: Do you think anyone in the world knows the real identity of SadNewYorker? What would you lose by posting the answers to my questions about whether the affair has finished, and how your wife managed to have affairs with 100 men?

I encourage you to let go of your misgivings and answer my questions.

I was aware of them over the years, I turned a blind eye and remained for the kids because I didn't feel I'd have guaranteed custody.

She knew I suspected but we both turned a blind eye. When I confronted her, we fought, and it all slowly came out. Then my resentment and hatred came following that after years of ignoring it.

What did she fight with you about? She did a despicable thing - several times. This is unthinkable behaviour in a marriage. What did she have against you, in order to fight with you? Or was she justifying her behaviour?

But you left eventually, so what made you feel able to do that?

I had to leave, I gave up because I had no choice. Couldn't handle the fighting and it was bad for the kids.

We fought because she was hard in her heart and I felt she wasn't sorry, she didn't understand what she took from me and justified her behaviour. She wasn't fully honest and open.

But she changed after I left.