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#344697 01/11/04 01:27 AM
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At the risk of opening a huge "can of worms" - I copied this post from over on Emotional Needs. It was posted by Shaken, not Stirred.....

It's a little hard to follow, as he tries to maintain the anonymity of those he writes about with ________blanks. Please try to follow his thinking and post your heart-felt reactions. I will reserve mine till some of you can respond in order not to influence anyone.

quote:
For those of you who do not think on a spiritual plane, or who are not interested in Christian warfare against those negative forces or spirits that might be infiltrating our marriages, please ignore this post. It will likely be too much to digest.

For the rest of you, I received the following e-mail from a friend of mine whose discrning and wise husband is convinced my WS has what he terms the "spirit of Jezebel", which has infiltrated her life and which literally needs to be prayed out of her by me - her husband. I was awestruck when I read this because the characteristics that have overtaken my wife fit this to a tee.

And, no, I do not think my wife is evil. Nor do I think I have been an angel through the course of my marriage. It takes two to tango. However, I want no place for evil forces to destroy my marriage, nor anyone's on this board.

Here is her e-mail. Read on:

I spoke with ____ about the spiritual warfare issue. He feels that there is a specific form of oppression evident in this situation. For one thing, the unreasonableness of ____'s response to you leads him to believe that she is being driven by something other than her own desires or thoughts. What he believes he senses is that she is probably being affected by a spirit called
Jezebel.

First of all, when I speak of a spirit, what I mean what many modern charismatic leaders refer to a principality of this world. It is an
archetypal spirit (an overarching spiritual influence associated with Satan and his kingdom) and it has a kind of unique identity. This one, the Jezebel spirit, has traits which we can readily associate with Jezebel, Ahab's wife.

The name Jezebel is indicative of the spirit's affect and attributes. Jezebel's name means "without cohabitation" and it is clear from 1 Kings that she did not allow for a true intimacy with her husband, but was controlling, rebellious, resisting submission to her husband Ahab. This spirit, similarly, manifests itself in people's lives in the form of control and rebellion. It works against the true, pure intimacy of sex in the marriage, and wars against Christian marriages in general. Some associate
her with a spirit of prostitution, again, something warring against the purity of sex in marriage and works to undermine the appropriate attitude of humilty. Note, for instance, that Jezebel ruled over the priests of Baal and
Ashteroth. These, as you know, were deities of ancient fertility religions which practiced human sacrifice and temple prostitution as acts of worship.

Of course, keep in mind that the degree to which one is affected by this spirit determines how far one goes towards acting like that spirit. Her
function as the spirit of prostitution means that she motivates people towards a more licentious path than they would normally take, not that
everyone affected by this spirit actually prostitutes themselves.

The spirit is also associated with the more negative sides of modern feminism (again, a form rebellion, a resistance to what is a healthy
submission to a husband and even an unwillingness to 'co-habit' or be yoked with men). She is a proud spirit and so if _____ is being affected by
Jezebel, it makes sense that she would not believe she needs healing.

____ says that people affected by this spirit are usually the last to think they need to change.

He also wondered about the timing of _____'s change with your dad's death. If this spirit has been working in her, then the timing is curious. ___ feels that it would be just like Jezebel to want to attack someone who is part of a family whose head has been a spokesperson for God.

Though your dad was not prophetic per se, (i.e., he didn't claim to receive direct words of
revelation, though certainly he heard from God), he was a speaker of God's word, and so it makes sense that Jezebel would attack his family. Notice how she wars against Elijah and how that conflict brought him to a point of great despair (until God came to him in the Still Small Whisper).

As well, this archetypal spirit tends to like to take advantage of gaps in true spirtual authority. For example, in the Biblical story, Jezebel takes advantage of Ahab's failure to exercize true spiritual authority to try to
usurp authority over Israel. Thus the spirit may be taking advantage of your father's absence:

Perhaps there was a kind of protection in your lives due to his prayers, faith and presence (and thus there is now a gap). Possibly, ____'s change after _____'s death is due not only to the emotional trauma of that loss, but also due to a spiritual dynamic in which the enemy is taking
advantage of that loss.

As well, since you are now the eldest male in the
family, Jezebel may have set her sights set on you for attack. However, dismal this may sound, Christians should not fear Jezebel, because we have authority in Jesus's name over this spirit as we walk in Christ. In particular, we have authority to war against her in the areas of our
God-given domain (ie., family, spouse, children).

____ suggests that you pray against the influences of Jezebel over ____'s mind, praying that any control of the Jezebel spirit over her mind will be broken. If you feel comfortable enough to do so, you can, as her husband,
take authority over this spirit in her life and command it to leave your family and your wife alone (obviously you're able to war this way only under the protection of Christ).

You don't need to be with _____ when you pray
this, but it might not hurt to pray this when at your temporary home and when in your family's home when ____'s out.

When ____ met ____ in 2001, he sensed that at some level, she believed she knew what was what in her own life, but below that he saw confusion, and believes it may have been lurking there for quite some time. The enemy likes to take advantage of confusion. The way ____ tends to think of this is that if you don't have a sound, Biblical thought on a matter, one of these
spirits will be glad to provide you with a thought of its own choosing.

That _____ wants freedom, but seems to think that living like a teenager will bring fulfilment and freedom, shows a definite confusion. You might,
therefore, also pray against confusion, binding it in Jesus' name and commanding it leave _____'s mind.

Well, that's an awful lot to throw at you. Please feel free to either email with any questions or better yet call us, or (as ___ says, to complete
disregard anything that doesn't sit right with your spirit).


#344698 01/11/04 01:44 AM
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Lupo,

Several years ago, they preached about this spirit on TV. Several pastors, including Joyce Meyers brought this spirit up. They went into great detail about what it was. But the main theme is not to be controlled by anyone, including God. I have heard where some women's lib groups pray for the spirit to come over them and to infiltrate their daughters! Think about day cares? What spirits are being released there. The bible says that there will be a great rebellion against God in the later days. If satan can destroy marriage, he can destroy about anything. The antidote is men need to pray a covering over their wives [and daughters]on a daily basis.

singleguy

[ January 10, 2004, 12:45 PM: Message edited by: singleguy ]

#344699 01/10/04 04:29 PM
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This is what I said: Anyone agree .. disagree?

-----------

Personally I believe more can be accomplished in prayer than anywhere else. So yes, I do believe in demonic strongholds that can influence people to do things. I also believe that people can be influenced by good, through prayer, so it works both ways.

However, I still believe it is the person's choice to sin or not to sin. YOU can't repent for your wife. You can't pray a magic prayer over her and "set her free". SHE has to want to be free.

IF and that is a big IF she is being driven by something demonic, you can only pray for her protection and that she would come to a place of repentance and wanting change and freedom.

Just a little caution. I have been in churches that got into this "teaching" and the whole church was so captivated and "into" it that EVERYONE in the church ended up having this JS.

I would be very careful that you don't get so caught up in the hype of all this that you miss the obvious.

It is STILL her choice. God never takes away our freedom to choose.

From a MB point of view (and I think it is compatible with the Bible) you need to continue to try to meet emotional needs, avoid the LB's work on your OWN issues (especially on what drove her away in the first place) and pray that God restores the marriage. Beyond that I would caution you to refrain from quick fixes. I don't believe they exist.

Blessings,
DZZZ

[ January 10, 2004, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Diamonzzz ]

#344700 01/10/04 06:02 PM
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Still being new in His Word, I can't answer from a Biblical perspective. However, from an experiential side, I can contribute.

I thought through therapy and the sex getting better, buying our first home, etc., our M was on the road to healing. My Dad passed away in Aug 2002, just 2 months after we moved into our new home. My W and I had our big arguments, but I still felt it could/would get better. A month or so later is when we had an argument the morning when I was doing a community service event with my men's team. While going to it, she left several hurtful messages on my cell about how she would willingly do things with another man that she didn't/wouldn't do with me. She even mentioned his name, her personal trainer.

My uncle passed away in Jan/Feb 2003 (don't remember date); another strong Catholic presence in my family.

My Mom passed away in March 2003, again my W did not come to the funeral. Over the next 2 months after her passing my W became even more combative (I didn't help). Then in early May, the incident which lead to the TRO, and then her filing for D.

She never liked my parents, they were not sane to her. I was too loyal to them and defended more than I should have. I never knew (or read) the verse in Genesis about a man leaving his Father and Mother and cleaving to his W. I thought I should still be loyal to my parents. Anyway, they were both devote Catholics, more than typical (more fanatical). Many of her comments were about their religious fervor. She told me that she was happy that they are dead, because now maybe I will grow up.

So, do I believe that Jezebel might be influencing her? YES! Because, how does a M that appears to be working towards a resolution change direction so dramatically? Of course, I do take responsibility for other things I did (no other infidelity) during that time. I would also say, based on the description of Jezebel (or her male counterpart), I was demonically influenced me during my unfaithfulness, sex was more important than faithfulness.

That's my take on it.

Love in Christ,
ttsmm

#344701 01/11/04 04:33 AM
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Lupo,

Wow. This is what I feel i've been living the past few years. After D-Day I went to see a friend of mine who knew of my W's previous A's and told him I could not go through this again.

After we talked for a while and prayed he asked me what I thought God was trying to tell me and to search for that answer.

The answer came in a dream of my W caught in the clutches of something and she had been there for a while. So long, as a matter of fact; that she was comfortable in that situation and didn't want to leave.

Dzzz is correct in that yuo cannot repent for the spouse. But we do have authority over them to some degree. We can make them loosen the grip they have. But the spouses desire to keep the OP, allows the spirit to linger and makes it hard for the BS. If the BS isn't in an intimate relationship with God, the circumstances could very well overwhelm them. I still battle this spirit (2 years, 2 mos.). My W still doesn't allow me to completely be the head of the household. But she is getting better at allowing me to express my opinion about spiritual matters. She still doesn't like it when I suggest she read the Word and won't initiate prayer very often.

The power of these spirits seemed to loosen when I started to pray in the form of the prayers in "Power of a Praying Husband" Prayer is a very powerful weapon and the most effective one we have against the spirits of the enemy. They are dilignetly at work trying to destroy marriages and they are banking on the BS's to give up on the spouses.

This is why I have chosen the name I have. Because I remain steadfast in the fight over my W and committed to making my M one that will glorify God.

Blessing to you all. Life if hard.... ...pray harder!

Love in Christ.

S&C

#344702 01/11/04 11:18 AM
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Thanks for your replies everyone. I forgot to mention in my other posts on this thread (see the same thread in Emotional Needs) that my wife has been unable to pray audibly with me for about 7-8 years. Up until about 18 months ago, she would pray with me if I was the one who prayed/led (she would never make a sound). About 18 months ago she stopped praying with me altogether.

On one occasion, deep into her withdrawal and pain, and deep into our estrangement (I had been sleeping on the couch for a couple of months), my pleading with her to pray with me so we could begin the healing process fell on deaf ears.

This is really so ironic because my wife had been a prayer warrior for so long in her earlier days.

#344703 01/12/04 01:18 AM
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Many good points!

Yes, we reside in a physical world, but we live in a spiritual world. We have the authority with prayer to get God and His angels involved in our affairs. Our wives are our affairs. Yes, everyone will always have that ability to chose. but we can ask God to either put obstacles, other Christians, thoughts,etc., in their lives for positive influence, our take things out of their lives to bring about a Godly result.

Anytime churches focus on something too strongly, things get out of context, and more damage is done than repaired. The church itself can almost become demonic. But some of the stronger influences of this type of spirit, or stronghold, what ever you want to call it, is MTV. They have slowly taken control of so many kids over the last 20 years or so. They promote wrong sex to the hilt. They promote rebellion to the hilt. Right now as I write this they are working on developing new music videos that will be done in the context of a porn movie. They have a porn company, yes porn, and a music company that are working with MTV to release these before the year is over. Another stronghold is the girl scouts, and their lax views about sexuality. One of the leaders of the gay community has said he will not rest until every church in America that opposes gay rights is closed. Yes everyone has a choice, but we can be a strong diversion with our prayers and our witness. Things are going to change, and change fast. S&C is right about praying harder. It will become one of the greatest wars ever fought, and we need to fight!!!

singleguy

#344704 01/12/04 08:23 AM
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Yes, I strongly feel that the spirit of Jezebel is alive and active today. This evilness has been tolerated due to the presence of what I call "Christian feminism" in the church, coinciding with the advent of the feminist agenda some years ago. This godless doctrine has infiltrated the church from the seminary level right down to the pulpit.

I will say this - the spirit of Jezebel cannot exist unless the spirit of Ahab allows it. When men take their rightful place as spiritual head of the church and household, using the servanthood model of Jesus, the spirit of Jezebel cannot co-exist. Men are slowly but surely (praise Jesus!) rediscovering their Biblical mandate to leadership. This wickedness in today's church is not a female issue as much as it is a male issue. When we men get our spiritual act together our women will naturally be content and supportive. Those who are not Christians can't understand this concept as it conflicts with most modern psychology and worldly leanings.

I strongly exhort the Christian men here to find out who they are in Jesus and fulfill their Biblical role of manhood, husbandhood, and fatherhood. The rest will fall into place. God bless!

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I am not sure if anyone who posted on this thread is active posters but I was pointed here via Google search. Never thought this subject would have ever been discussed on MB after reading and posting for over a year. I never bothered to search for "Jezebel", but this spirit is precisely what I dealt with in my marriage. It's a dangerous and VERY pervasive spirit in many Christian marriages and the church in general. I highly recommend the "believers" who participate on MB to thoroughly pray and investigate whether or no this spirit exists...especially if you having issues with rebellion, refusal of counsel, prayer, defensiveness to ANY questioning and illogical confusion in conversation....and unexplained emotional distancing.


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"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking. Also, it would be a really disrespectful phrase to use about one's spouse. Dr. Harley's advice is to NOT try to psychoanalyze your spouse nor to try to diagnose their spiritual failings. That is not the path to marriage improvement - instead, you have to learn to appreciate their perspective, rather than being disrespectful about it.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: DNT
especially if you having issues with rebellion


I can't understand why rebellion could be an issue in marriage, because neither husband nor wife is supposed to be lording it over the other. There's nothing to rebel against. In a good marriage, there isn't any requirement that husband or wife follow the wishes of the others.

Quote:
refusal of counsel, prayer


Again, Dr. Harley does not recommend demanding that your spouse participate in counseling or prayer. Instead, negotiate to find a win-win solution. The procedures are on this site.

Quote:
defensiveness to ANY questioning and illogical confusion in conversation....and unexplained emotional distancing.


Well, usually when that happens, there is an affair. Again the solution is not to make demands of your spouse. Instead, rather than questioning, just go find out for yourself (snoop). Don't fight with your spouse about it! Don't tell them or anyone else they have an evil spirit. That's disrespectful and will simply empty your love bank balance further. Snoop -- then expose the truth -- then let your spouse know that if they want to stay married to you, they will need to end their affair and build a new marriage with you that makes you both happy.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Be aware that on these old threads people pretty much passed around their own personal opinions - which were frequently worthless. After all, most of us here destroyed our marriages using our own best thinking. We came here not to share our own personal opinions, but to learn from an expert how to actually fix what is wrong.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Responding to an ancient post:

Originally Posted By: singleguy
I have heard where some women's lib groups pray for the spirit to come over them and to infiltrate their daughters!


This is simply making stuff up and passing unsubstantiated rumor.

Quote:
Think about day cares? What spirits are being released there.


This is just extremely disrespectful to anyone who chooses to use day care. Neither my wife nor I want our children in daycare, and we have some pretty strong preferences against it - but think of the case were husband and wife are not agreed on the subject and one wants to use it and one does not. This is a great example of how NOT to speak about an issue in the context of marital conflict. You can explain to your spouse why you are not enthusiastic about what they prefer without branding it as demonic or saying it is releasing evil spirits or any other such name calling, or speaking about it as if it is a choice no sane person should ever make.

Quote:
The antidote is men need to pray a covering over their wives [and daughters]on a daily basis.


Wow - I'm sure my wife appreciates me praying for her and asking for God to protect her, but I know for a fact that she doesn't want me praying to God as if she is somehow more prone to evil than I am and needs extra protection. That is very disrespectful. If you are frustrated that your wife won't pray with you, and you've ever prayed like this - that's probably why she won't pray with you. Prayer should not be abusive or disrespectful.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking. Also, it would be a really disrespectful phrase to use about one's spouse. Dr. Harley's advice is to NOT try to psychoanalyze your spouse nor to try to diagnose their spiritual failings. That is not the path to marriage improvement - instead, you have to learn to appreciate their perspective, rather than being disrespectful about it.


But sin is sin.
Let's go back to the basic story of Genesis: God commanded the married couple not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Adam should have refused his wife: No negotiation needed.

When someone is involved with sin, like a wayward or an alcoholic, sometimes the truth of the Gospel is the only thing that can pierce their heart - because the Bible is sharper than any two edged sword.

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Markos - I appreciate your replies and input here. I can assure you the Jezebel spirit isn't anything that is made up. It is very real and very dangerous. To a portion of your point jezebel spirit cannot exist without what's called an "Ahab" spirit"...ie, a passive man who is not assuming his Godly responsibilities as a husband...ie...me. Nevertheless the spirit often exists well before marriagetypically rooted in deep rooted rejection, family chaos, sexual abuse, and fear experienced as child then buried in religion. Unfortunately, all present in our case. I highly respect and believe in Dr. Harley's principles and methods, but THIS is beyond the scope of psychoanalysis, learned behavior, love bank deposits, and the like. My XW even stated she felt Dr. Harleys methods would have worked. This is not my assuming a position of judgment. Its a revelation after months of prayer, due diligence, and seeking out of those who share the same experiences.

Again, this is not some spooky, judgmental, over spiritualized, crazy talk. If you care to know more I would be happy to share with the biblical support, application, and many testimonies from those who share the SAME playbook that accompanies this spirit.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 09:26 PM.

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Originally Posted By: markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking.
Biblically speaking...the Queen Jezebel and King Ahab reign is found in 1 Kings 18 through 1 Kings 22. Jesus addresses the "Spirit of Jezebel" in Revelation 2:18-29


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But we have to be careful about blaming demons for our sins. The Book of Romans says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God," and that "there is none righteous, no not one."

In fact, a sinner cannot even chose to stop sinning on their own. Like lost sheep, we have all gone astray. WE are so evil in our hearts that God declares 'There is none that seeketh after me."

Furthermore, the Epistle of James explains that we sin because our hearts are wicked and desire sin....

Only the mercy of God, through Jesus Christ's sacrifice on the Cross can save us from our sins and wash away our filthy hearts.


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Oh, I want to clarify something: We can turn from sin with the grace of God.
So we have a choice ONLY through the grace of God, NOT of our own will

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Jedi - I am in total agreement with you. We can turn from our sin. It's a matter of submitting our will to the will of the Father through Christ Jesus. He won't force his will upon us...as I won't force my will upon my XW. In fact...Jezebel is such a prideful and unwilling spirit that Revelations states it has to put her on a "bed of sickness" as a result of the unwillingness to repent. The name Jezebel literally translates "unhusbandman, without husband, and non-cohabitated"...how convenient. I've been instructed by spiritual counsel and Holy Spirit through prayer to keep a distance and allow things to run it's course. I can't even "pray for her", because it would enable an unhealthy soul tie which would do more damage to me than her and prolong repentance. Sigh...this is a while different beast. No pun intended.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 09:54 PM.

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The Bible is very clear that "the prayer of a righteous man is a powerful and effective weapon."

There is no soul tie to others when we pray for them. In a sense, we are all related to one another because we are all humans, children of Adam and Eve.

Any doctrine that discourages prayer is not Biblical.
When the Nation of Israel committed horrible adultery against God, God was about to destroy them and kill Aaron. But Moses interceded through prayer and God turned away from his wrath.

Hundreds of years later, the Nation of Israel and Judea was again living in adultery and God instructed the Prophet Hosea to let the adulteress wife leave, but she would face consequences and be under the wrath of God.

Jesus said to "pray for one another." He never told us not to pray for another person. He even told us to pray for our enemies.

On a personal note, I have been divorced for 2 years. But I pray for my ex wife every day, sometimes several times a day. I've asked my Sunday School class and Church to pray for her (and her mother) also. When I was first divorced, I had to emotionally separate from her and was not praying for her. But over time, I saw her as a lost soul living in sin and in need of a Savior.
We all need Jesus.

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Originally Posted By: DNT
Originally Posted By: markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking.
Biblically speaking...the Queen Jezebel and King Ahab reign is found in 1 Kings 18 through 1 Kings 22. Jesus addresses the "Spirit of Jezebel" in Revelation 2:18-29


As I said, the phrase "spirit of Jezebel" is not there at all. The word spirit is not even in that passage, except in verse 29 which is talking about the Holy Spirit.

People make up all kinds of interesting doctrines in fancy Christian jargon and throw a smattering of words from the Bible together - it doesn't make it true, and it definitely doesn't make it a good idea to slander your spouse by claiming they have some kind of messed up or evil spirit.


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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Originally Posted By: markos
"spirit of Jezebel" is a made up phrase, Biblically speaking. Also, it would be a really disrespectful phrase to use about one's spouse. Dr. Harley's advice is to NOT try to psychoanalyze your spouse nor to try to diagnose their spiritual failings. That is not the path to marriage improvement - instead, you have to learn to appreciate their perspective, rather than being disrespectful about it.


But sin is sin.
Let's go back to the basic story of Genesis: God commanded the married couple not to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Adam should have refused his wife: No negotiation needed.

When someone is involved with sin, like a wayward or an alcoholic, sometimes the truth of the Gospel is the only thing that can pierce their heart - because the Bible is sharper than any two edged sword.



I don't disagree at all with what you've said, Jedi. But it still doesn't mean this "spirit of Jezebel" phrase is a good idea for a husband with a bad marriage to use about his wife. Even if she's wayward! It's disrespectful, and it's definitely not taken from the Bible, other than pitching some Bible vocabulary together.

Sin is sin, absolutely. I don't think that's what's at issue here.

"Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God" (1 Peter 4:11 http://biblehub.com/1_peter/4-11.htm)


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Originally Posted By: DNT
The name Jezebel literally translates "unhusbandman, without husband, and non-cohabitated"


I'm not sure that's correct:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezebel#Meaning_of_name

Quote:
I've been instructed by spiritual counsel and Holy Spirit through prayer to keep a distance and allow things to run it's course. I can't even "pray for her", because it would enable an unhealthy soul tie which would do more damage to me than her and prolong repentance.


I don't know what a soul tie is. I would tend to side with Jedi on praying for people, unless praying for someone is so utterly painful for you that you cannot bear it, in which case I would suggest you pray one last prayer commending the person to God's care and move on, prepared at any time to receive them back if repentance occurs.


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DNT,

You chose to commit adultery in your marriage and that was the final line with your wife.

You've been advised to plan A if you want to win her back after divorce but have already dated other women.

My great uncle was a preacher in Oklahoma but got ran out of the churches because he pursued women as much as lost souls on Sundays and lost all credibility.

I encourage you to pray, read the Bible and Plan A if you want to win your wife back.

If you want to move on, then have No Contact with her.

As Markos posted, she will be offended if you tell her she is under the control of Satan or another evil spirit. It will not help any potential recovery.

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Read the book of Hosea, where God brings the adulteress woman back to her husband.

Or the Book of Tobit, where God sends an Angel to bring two people together for marriage AFTER HEARING THEIR PRAYERS.

Or Daniel, where the three young men are thrown into a fiery furnace but pray to God for deliverance.

Our God is a living God and the great I Am. There is nothig on earth that He cannot move.

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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
DNT,

You chose to commit adultery in your marriage and that was the final line with your wife.

You've been advised to plan A if you want to win her back after divorce but have already dated other women.


Didn't realize all this - this spirit of Jezebel stuff is a real distraction from what really needs to be done: make love bank deposits, and avoid love bank withdrawals. If the betrayed wife chooses not to recover the marriage, it's not because she has a "spirit of Jezebel." Jesus told people they could leave their spouse for adultery, so let's definitely not call that a spirit of Jezebel.

I think you need to get further away from some of the spiritual teachers with fancy jargon and just read God's word, and work on winning your wife back.


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Originally Posted By: markos
As I said, the phrase "spirit of Jezebel" is not there at all. The word spirit is not even in that passage, except in verse 29 which is talking about the Holy Spirit.
Markos Jesus' address in Revelation is to the church in Thyatira...which at that time is over 1000 years removed from the person Queen Jezebel who reigned in 1 Kings. So if the person as queen is no longer a living person...then by deductive reasoning, Jesus is addressing a "sprit' or like spirit who is leading them astray..which he calls by name - Jezebel. In the realm of any realm of spiritual warfare or any real time application you won't always see a "phrase verbatim" in the Word. It often requires a need to exegesis the text. For instance, we know the serpent in the garden of Eden was Satan...however the bible doesn't "say that".


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DNT,

Do you want to recover your marriage?

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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
DNT,

You chose to commit adultery in your marriage and that was the final line with your wife.
She recently admitted this wasn't the deal breaker. It was my "treatment of her".

Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
I encourage you to pray, read the Bible and Plan A if you want to win your wife back.

If you want to move on, then have No Contact with her.
At this point, moving on. NC not possible. We have 2 1/2 and 6 year old.

Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
As Markos posted, she will be offended if you tell her she is under the control of Satan or another evil spirit. It will not help any potential recovery.
Haven't told her. Not telling her. There is a very specific way to deal with it.

My whole point of posting this thread was that it showed up on Google search. Never figured it would be a MB discussion.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 11:31 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
DNT,

Do you want to recover your marriage?
I did. I tried to recover for a couple years prior to the actual legal divorce, in lieu of disclosing the old affairs. There was an emotional divorce that occurred over the course of time. I'm just worn out Jedi. I now know why I was so worn out and why NOTHING would get through...I mean ANYTHING. What....so...ever. Worn out. I've begun to move forward.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 10:58 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Read the book of Hosea, where God brings the adulteress woman back to her husband.
Been reading and re-reading Hosea for about a year now.


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Originally Posted By: markos

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/Dictionary/viewTopic.cfm?topic=IT0005042

A soul tie can be equated to codependency, but it's much deeper. It's a one sided relationship...described between David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel 18:1 "Now it came about when he had finished speaking to Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as himself."

Sounds sweet doesn't it?...However, it is a covenant like bond where there should not be, or where there is no longer a covenant relationship...which is unhealthy emotionally and spiritually.

Last edited by DNT; 04/19/14 11:33 PM.

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Originally Posted By: DNT
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
Read the book of Hosea, where God brings the adulteress woman back to her husband.
Been reading and re-reading Hosea for about a year now.



Have you read the book of Tobit? (in Catholic or orthodox Bibles)

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JK - no I have not. I looked it up on Wiki. Not sure if I could ascribe the same authority to text of Tobit as I would the Bible. I can understand the basis and application of Tobias' story but would question if it delivers on the righteous "fruit" that is recorded in the Word of God. Just my quick discernment...


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Originally Posted By: DNT
Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
I encourage you to pray, read the Bible and Plan A if you want to win your wife back.

If you want to move on, then have No Contact with her.
At this point, moving on. NC not possible. We have 2 1/2 and 6 year old.


It is not true that having children means NC is not possible. It doesn't take a lot of time around MB to learn otherwise - have you invested effort to learn here?


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Originally Posted By: DNT
Originally Posted By: markos
As I said, the phrase "spirit of Jezebel" is not there at all. The word spirit is not even in that passage, except in verse 29 which is talking about the Holy Spirit.
Markos Jesus' address in Revelation is to the church in Thyatira...which at that time is over 1000 years removed from the person Queen Jezebel who reigned in 1 Kings. So if the person as queen is no longer a living person...then by deductive reasoning, Jesus is addressing a "sprit' or like spirit who is leading them astray..which he calls by name - Jezebel.


There's a lot of leaps there.

Quote:
In the realm of any realm of spiritual warfare or any real time application you won't always see a "phrase verbatim" in the Word.


That's because this is an area where people are typically just making stuff up.


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Markos Revelation 12:11 says "And they have defeated him by the blood of the Lamb and by their testimony..." A testimony is a personal account of things that have been experienced by people and have been revealed in the spirit or scripture Things that you would consider 'made up'. There are countless testimonies of this occurring in marriages churches and other relationships... And it always plays out the same. No one is making up the SAME experience and overcoming with the SAME approach and methods.

More importantly we have 1 Corinthians 2:13-15 "When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirits words to explain spiritual truths. But people who arent spiritual cant receive these truths from Gods Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they cant understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means. Those who are spiritual can evaluate all things, but they themselves cannot be evaluated by others."

Last edited by DNT; 04/22/14 07:49 AM.

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Originally Posted By: DNT
I am not sure if anyone who posted on this thread is active posters but I was pointed here via Google search. Never thought this subject would have ever been discussed on MB after reading and posting for over a year. I never bothered to search for "Jezebel", but this spirit is precisely what I dealt with in my marriage. It's a dangerous and VERY pervasive spirit in many Christian marriages and the church in general. I highly recommend the "believers" who participate on MB to thoroughly pray and investigate whether or no this spirit exists...especially if you having issues with rebellion, refusal of counsel, prayer, defensiveness to ANY questioning and illogical confusion in conversation....and unexplained emotional distancing.


DNT, first you cheat on your wife multiple times.

You also had recent EAs which you diminished by determining all by yourself that the inappropriate opposite sex contact were not EAs as "there were no expression of love for neither".

You had a porn addition. Trust me, your wife was affected by this.

In a conversation with your XW, you "summarized my realization of dealing with my own depression, insecurities, sexual addiction, and overall being emotionally unavailable to receive or give love."

In a call with Dr. Harley you related that ""your wife feels she is being forced to do things you want to do. If she does not, you get upset and are disrespectful with her", and your thread provides many examples of you doing just that, including throwing your full knowledge of Scripture at her, forcing her to listen to you read MB aloud, etc.

Your wife recounts the following in a text you copied to your thread ""I can just still hear you calling them distractions and saying the devil is using them and demanding they stay in separate rooms from us with gritted teeth.""

Now you have THE GALL to suggest that her withdrawal from the marriage is BECAUSE SHE IS POSSESSED BY THE SPIRIT OF A JEZEBEL DEMON?

Am I to understand this might be discussed a book you are authoring about your "own story"?

I think it may be more productive for you to focus on how your behavior resulted in consequences than to convince yourself that your wife is possessed of a demon.

Last edited by Sunnytimes; 04/22/14 12:11 PM.

Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Sunnytimes - glad you took time to review my story. Yes on all accounts. Focused...still focused...and this is where I am today. If you expect me to continue to self condemn then...sorry. I will fail 'you' in that regard..

Last edited by DNT; 04/22/14 12:25 PM.

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Originally Posted By: DNT
Jedi - I am in total agreement with you. We can turn from our sin. It's a matter of submitting our will to the will of the Father through Christ Jesus. He won't force his will upon us...as I won't force my will upon my XW. In fact...Jezebel is such a prideful and unwilling spirit that Revelations states it has to put her on a "bed of sickness" as a result of the unwillingness to repent. The name Jezebel literally translates "unhusbandman, without husband, and non-cohabitated"...how convenient. I've been instructed by spiritual counsel and Holy Spirit through prayer to keep a distance and allow things to run it's course. I can't even "pray for her", because it would enable an unhealthy soul tie which would do more damage to me than her and prolong repentance. Sigh...this is a while different beast. No pun intended.


DNT, she divorced you because you were unfaithful.

How on earth are you construing that to SHE needs to repent?

Sir, you are being deceived with this nonsense that SHE is the offender, that SHE needs to repent, that SHE is so demon possessed that some unscriptureal soul tie would damage you if you prayed for her.

Jesus commends us to pray for our enemies. Stephen prayed for those who stoned him, while they stoned him. There is no Biblical precedent for this soul tie you reference.

However, she is not your enemy. She is your victim.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Originally Posted By: DNT
Sunnytimes - glad you took time to review my story. Yes on all accounts. Focused...still focused...and this is where I am today. If you expect me to continue to self condemn then...sorry. I will fail 'you' in that regard..


Well, that it your choice, but you are now condemning HER for how she responded to your betrayal, going as far as to say that the problem in your marriage was really that she is possessed of the spirit of Jezebel demon.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Originally Posted By: markos
But it still doesn't mean this "spirit of Jezebel" phrase is a good idea for a husband with a bad marriage to use about his wife. Even if she's wayward! It's disrespectful, and it's definitely not taken from the Bible, other than pitching some Bible vocabulary together.

Sin is sin, absolutely. I don't think that's what's at issue here.

"Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God" (1 Peter 4:11 http://biblehub.com/1_peter/4-11.htm)


Marcos, she is not the wayward. DNT is the wayward.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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I am not condemning her at all. I have owned my own truth and now I'm acknowledging a spiritual truth about us collectively. I was an Ahab...I did not operate in my God given role as leader and protective covering for our marriage and family. You can't have one spirit without the other. I want deliverance not only myself, and her, but for everyone who deal with it. Most importantly because it WILL effect our children without repentance. Whether you fully understand how it operates is not my issue. If you desire to take more time understanding it you can start here dealing with me: http://www.jezebelspirit.net/Evil_Spirit_of_Ahab.html then work your way out.


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Originally Posted By: DNT


Originally Posted By: Jedi_Knight
As Markos posted, she will be offended if you tell her she is under the control of Satan or another evil spirit. It will not help any potential recovery.
Haven't told her. Not telling her. There is a very specific way to deal with it.



DNT, are you referencing this spirit in relation to your wife in the book you are writing about your story?

What is the way you will deal with accusing your wife of being possessed by a demon after she availed herself of a remedy given to her by Christ himself if a spouse is unfaithful?


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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You were an unfaithful spouse. You made conscious choices to watch porn, have sexual additions, have inappropriate opposite sex dialog and to cheat multiple times.

Her reaction is NORMAL, and PERMITTED BY CHRIST. Not demon inspired.

As you will see in the MB forums here, your selfish behaviors while you were cheating on her extended far beyond the cheating; while doing so, you were emotionally unavailable to give or receive love.

Her withdrawal from you during this time (experiencing the side effects of your cheating but not having the knowledge of it yet) is NORMAL. Christ knows this happens when people cheat so he gave the betrayed spouse permission to leave the marriage.

It is beyond astonishing that you are in any way insinuating she is demon possessed, needs to repent and going as far as to say she is so toxic that you cannot even pray for her under the theory it may create soul tie and taint you.

She is simply your victim, and you are again victimizing her with this line of conjecture.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Sunnytimes. I wasn't my XW enemy, neither was she my enemy. I was not her victim, neither was she my victim. If you BELEIVE in the totalality of scripture then you you beleive this: Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Now, if you don't beleive that then we don't have a premise for exchange regarding that topic. Just to clarify...no she is not "DEMON POSSESED" as if to suggest some Hollywood horror scene. It is subtle but pervasive spiritual oppression that affects many Christian housholds and other settings.

Last edited by DNT; 04/22/14 12:57 PM.

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Originally Posted By: DNT
I am not condemning her at all. I have owned my own truth and now I'm acknowledging a spiritual truth about us collectively.


A spiritual truth, says WHO?

You are accusing her of being demon possessed. You are accusing her of needing repentance. You are accusing her of being so toxic you don't dare to pray for her.

It is beyond disrespectful to assume you ascertain ANY spiritual truth of hers.

Your head is so far into its fog. Honestly, in reading this thread, it occurs to me that your fog may never have lifted and your Plan A was doomed because you may have still been having foggy behavior towards her.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Originally Posted By: DNT
neither was she my victim.


Fog.

You cheat on your wife many times in many ways and say she was not your victim?


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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You have NO idea the pain such a betrayal causes to its victim, yes VICTIM.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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smile I am begining to understand where you are. Actually, my XW and I have talked about her pain and she lets me know that she has been making great strides. I am very familiar with other stories and MB principles and this is outside the scope. Good talking with you.

Last edited by DNT; 04/22/14 01:06 PM.

FWH, Married 12 years, 3 children DS age 5, DD age 1, DS 18/BW's step son.
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I'm not sure what you mean by your reference to where I am.

I just picked up some vibes from your Jezebel thread here that didn't feel right, and went back to find, to my astonishment, that this wife in such a need for repentance - so much so that you couldn't pray for her - was the betrayed spouse.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Originally Posted By: DNT
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


Yes, DNT, there are powers that a Christian wrestles with.

However, in Romans we are told "Should we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid."

Romans clearly tells us that we are to blame for our own sinfulness.

I have to run some errands so I don't have the ability for a prolonged theological discussion, but there are a number of contradictions in your statements verses the teachings of Scripture. You are making a few leaps too far in some of the logic.


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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Originally Posted By: Sunnytimes
You are making a few leaps too far in some of the logic.


For example, when you would say things like this to your wife:

quote from your wife's text: "I can just still hear you calling them [the children] distractions and saying the devil is using them and demanding they stay in separate rooms from us with gritted teeth."


Are you living in a covenant with death? With bitterness in your marriage? Read Isaiah 28. The bed will not be long enough or the covers wide enough for you to ever find comfort in that life. In Isaiah 28, God tells you to take a stick and beat these conditions out of your life.

Isaiah 28:29 "This [command] also cometh forth from the Lord of hosts, which is wonderful in counsel, and excellent in working."
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