Hi this is my first time writing...<BR>I'm sorry but this will be a long message because i don't know how to get advice without giving the whole picture. Before marriage my husband and I had an on and off again relationship over seven years. This was basically due to the fact that we lived on different continents. But whenever we were in the same place we were an item. When we were apart I missed him so much but we both dated othe people thinking things would never work out(we were from different countries, races, cultures and religions) and not knowing when or if we would ever see each other again. Communication was sporadic -especially on his part he is a terrible writer and calling was too expensive. But he did carrymy photogaraph in his wallet since we first met even when he had other girlfriends. But just when i though he was gone from my life forever he called me and expressed a desire to work on a more serious (albeit long-distance) relationship. I was happy any agreed and after one year of keeping in touch by regular letters (me mostly) and phone calls (both of us) he came for a two month visit. This was now six years after we first had met and 3 & 1/2 years after we had last seen each other. we really clicked and became so close during that visit. He was so loving and warm and the way he used to look at me melted my heart. I'm not the only one who felt this - my best freind told me that the way he used to look at me was incredible. Anyway he had to return home eventually but we bacame engaged and it was agreed that after a year i would go there and we would be married. Again we kept in touch by phone and by letters and he was always very loving. then about four 1/2 months before I was to come in one of his phone calls he mentioned some girl (i will call her B)he met at a wedding who wanted him to teach her how to play squash - warning bells went off in my head and I told him I though it was a come on and i asked him to not do it. He agreed. Anyway when i did come after a few months. I met this same girl - apparently they had become 'friends' in that time alothugh he never did play squash with her - she was the younger sister of someone he already knew so... he told me that he thought she liked him because she used to sit too close to him sometimes. after i came she called him at work and asked him if it was okay if she still came by his parents house (he lived at home which is customary in his culture) it turned out that she has been kissing up to his freinds and family since the time she first met him. I even found out from someone that after meeting him the first time she invited herself to a wedding that she knew he was going to be attending. I found out from him that he had gone with her to a game park for a 'work' weekend. She worked for a hotel management firm and his uncle had offered him a job in a hotel but he had no previous experience so she had offered him the opportunity to come with her and her co-workers to one of their hotels during of season to run routine checks on the different departments and he could learn about management that way. anyway we were married and we immediately moved away to another country but i visited his parents often and everytime i was there I would hear something or another about that girl - how she cryed to his mother, how she told his family she'd convert for him (they are same race, culture but diff religion), how she told people she didn't want to see my face. She became fast friends with his sister and cousin all at her insitgation. After i had my baby she called to congratulate my mother-in-law and I answered the phone and she knew it was me but she didn't congratulate me. also she later came by with a gift of a bracelet for my son (customary in their culture) but she was rude to me and she called my H's mother "mother-in-law." Meantime my husband and i were happy - inspite of all our differences - and we had a good marriage. he spent all of his free time with me and our sex life was great most of the time. We had a baby boy who is now two. I stayed at his parents place afte giving birth and he encountered her at the airport when he was leaving and he ignored her. Later she met his mother somewhere and cried that he had ignored her. around this time his sister told me that a few days before our wedding B had a friend call his sister and tell her that B loves my H and that there is more and she sould help stop the wedding. I wondered why she hadn't told me this sooner but I had by this time decided B was half crazy. But because of B's disturbing behaviour I asked my husband twice if there was more than just friendship between the two of them or if anything had happened between them. Once he first said he had kissed her and then when i said "really? why?" he had said "of course not!" and acted all hurt that i had even quesitoned him. He did the hurt act the other time I asked him too. Anyway for three years of our marriage she had managed to avoid ever seeing us together as a married couple. then last january we went to his parents' place and we attended a wedding where she also happened to be - she looked like hell - huge fat *ss. I told my husband to tell her and her sister hi so she wouldn't go moaning to his family about how I made him ignore her. I stood near him the whole time he talked to her and the conversation never covered anything beyond general conversation between friendly acquaintances who hadn't talked in a long time - how's work... etc. Anyway, a while after she saw us there she sent a letter to his cousin saying how she saw us and she felt so good because she didn't feel anything for him anymore. But a few months later she sent my H a card "i still love you more than ever" which he did not show to me. he tells me he called her and told her he was happy and he loves me and she should find someone of her own and not to continue with this. anyway a monh later he was out with a friend from back home who was visiting and I don't know what to call it but a little voice told me "check his breifcase" so i did and I found a four page love letter from her to him enclosed in a love card adressed to my baby and signed sweets. She wrote stuff like "it feels so good to call you my baby" and she mentioned his calling her and then she went on to say "i lost the ring you gave me at .... (the place where they went for the work weekend) before we made love" she also said that the friend who happened to be visitin us at that time had told her he would buy her another ring to replace it but she had told him it wasn't the same and then he said he would tell my H to send another one. She said other things like "i always wear the perfume you sent to me" and she mentioned some sweatshirt that the same friend had that belonged to my husband that she had taken and how she wears it and remembers him. then she said stuff like "remember how i used to clean your ears? I don't know why but I enjoyed that. Does your wife clean your ears?" and then she said "i don't envy your wife she may have your physical presence but I have your heart" "i used to ask myself how you could love two people but then i realised you never loved your wife otherwise you would not have loved me" also "i am not ashamed of what i did .. I am proud of who i have become" and so on...<BR>Anyway I confronted him and he hadn't read the whole letter yet so I don't think he realised she had spilled the beans about everything so he at first tried to act like she is just after him.. But then I asked about them sleeping together and he admitted that he had slept with her but only once at that place and this was about a week or two before i came to marry Him)but he insisted he never loved her and it just happened. he even says he did not prior to that find her attractive nor did he find her attractive afterwards ever again. He said she had given him the impression that she was casual about it - it was just for fun becuase they both were in the mood and it didn't mean anything more than that. But he found out in the process it was her first time so he felt guilty afterwards. But he says that he immediately left the room afterwards and he told her it was a big mistake and he regretted it and she (he says) acted like she felt the same. so they continued to be just friends after that. But the more questions I ask the deeper it seems.. the ring? well he said he gave it to her to thank her for arranging the whole weekend at that place. He says he didn't want her to feel he used her friendship just to help his career along and that it had nothing to do with the sex or any relaionship between them. Why a ring? because he didn't know what else she would like aside from jewellery and a ring is the cheapest jewellery. it is true that in their culture jewellery is often given as a gift. Oh the friend said he didn't know anything about the ring and he never said he would buy her another one or tell suhhel to. I believe him because for one thing he has a reputation for being a tightwad and secondly because he voluntarily before i mentioned it brought up the sweatshirt thing. he says she did ask for some shirt of my H's and he gave it to her.<BR>as for the perfume my husband says he doesn't know what she is talking about. he says he never sent her anything or even wrote her a letter. the way she wrote in her letter did sound like there had been no communication between them since we married aside from the phone call he made to her after she sent the first card. In her letter she referred to how she is playing squash these days since it reminds her of how they were supposed to (meaning it never happened) play squash on one of their first dates ... so i asked him about other dates he insists that there was no romantic dating he either saw her when he was out with all of her friends or they met for lunch a handful of time but it was only friendly. he says he often went out ot lunch with friends. He told me (after I asked) that he had held hands with her a couple times but again he was often like that with female freinds. he says that is all there is to it. they become good friends because from the time he met her he started running into her everywhere he went and she befriended his family and since he already knew her sister.. he says he knew she had a crush on him (everyone knew) but many of his freinds have had crushes on him so he didn't take it seriously or consider it a problem since he didn't find her attractive and he says he even told her he didn't want anything and that he loved me and was getting married to me and she told him that she likied him but she knew she wouldn't be allowed to marry someone like him and then one night something happened because he was horny and she was available which he regretted from then and there is nothing else. but I don't know what to believe. why would she write to him about perfume he sent knowing full well he didn't send any? why would she write him a love letter if when he called her he had truly told her he was in love with me and had no interest in a relationship with her. and why would he feel the need to explain to her that he was marrying me and loved me if they were just friends? I do know she is a liar because she told his aunt that they were old friends from school and that I came along and stole him from her when she actually met him afer we were engaged. I also know from other people that in public at least he never acted like he considered her anything more than a freind but that she was obviously after him. After we married my husband hardly ever returned home and as far as I can recall he never went to see her. I know for sure that the last time we were there he was with me and my son all of the time. Also she is not an attractive woman and I'm not just saying that because I hate her - that is the general consensus concerning her. She is short and fat, and worst of all at the age of 24 looked like a 40 something year old. I showed a photo of her to two different people who don't know her or this situation and asked them to guess her age and they both guessed 40 and both were women of her same race one 19 and one 39 years old. She is loud, she is pushy and she is spoiled. She is used to getting her way. I am tall, thin and in shape. I don't think I am great but I've had strangers tell me I am beautiful, gorgeous etc. I am well eduacted and I know i am smart and most of all i am loyal and moral and would never consider doing what they have done. I don't understand whyhe would want someone like her over me or in addition to me. I am furious i feel like I have been dragged down into some sordid low class ordeal. I don't know if I should believe him that it was nothing more than a one night stand before we married. It is one thing to forgive someone for a momentary lapse of reason it is another thing to deal with being cheated for over a four year period of time or to accept that he deliberately had another girl freind on the side before our marriage - especially such a weird disgusting one.<BR>Does it sound like he is lying? I especially would like to hear from men out there. Is it possible for a guy to sleep with someone he doesn't feel for romantically nor find particularly attractive if he is worked up (he hadn't seen me for almost a year and he isn't the type who likes to use his hand if you know what I mean and we had only done it once before he left due to circumstances) what if the girl is a friend - how can someone use a friend for sex? Does she sound like a psycho or am I just fooling myslef so i can believe him? help!!!!!

I'm so sorry about your situation. We all know how you feel, and you will find lots of great help here.<P>From what a lot of men have told me, yes, they are able to detach themselves emotionally from sex. I've talked with a lot of betrayed women on this forum, and I would venture to say that around 85% of us had WS who had A's with women who were not as attractive as their spouse - some weren't even attractive at ALL! But they're "ready and willing," so to speak, and they have an A with them out of some unfulfilled need.<P>Men, a lot of times, can engulf themselves in the moment, and temporarily forget their wives/girlfriends and children. It is ESPECIALLY common right before they get married. That was where my H's A happened - we were fast approaching our wedding date, and he panicked. It's been almost 2 years since his affair, and we're just now making progress. I was too devastated to do anything except play the victim and blame him - now that I realize that I wasn't the best mate I could be, we're able to work on our problems and move forward.<P>I hope things get better for you. Keep posting and keep learning.

Hi thanks for your reply.<BR>I refuse to take any blame for my husband's wandering. i am the victim. I was not there and we always had a great time when we were together. If being from a different country and trusting him to keep his pants on while i wound things up at home were a crime then and only then was I guilty. i also had a good friend of the opposite sex who called me twice while my H was visitng me and my H took such a little jealous fit that I was just talking to the guy. This friend is the most decent guy I know and would never behave like my H and that B**** did. He did like me as more than a friend but before he knew I was engaged and he never tried anything after he found out. We knew each other in University and sometimes we would go for latin dancing but he was always a gentleman. anyway around the same time my husband was befriending that girl, this freind asked me to come up and visit him for the day in NYC. I would have liked to see him again one last time before I left but I didn't out of respect for my H. i knew nothing would happen between this friend and myself but i didn't even want my fiance to feel threatened at all. My H is responsible for what he did and she is ... well I don't even know what to call her she is worse than a whore since whores at least do what they do out of desparation (for money) and not with the intention of stealing and destroying someone else's life and happiness. One thing I do know is that she knew he was engaged and she certainly knew he was married with a child when she wrote that letter. She tried to use her virginity as a weapon in the battle for him. In thier culture it is important and basically he is a decent guy so i think she thought that once he saw he was her first he would love her for her 'sacrifice' and dump me out of obligation. But her scheme backfired - at least if you believe him - because he ran as soon as he was finished with her. Sure he felt guilty but he was also MY first and I was his fiance and had only slept with him in the understanding that we were engaged (i would not have otherwise) whereas she slept with him just like that. I'm glad she was a virgin - at least I don't have diseases to worry about and also I know she wouldn't have been a very memorable f*** 'cause she wouldn't have known what she was doing and since she was only his second time he also wasn't an expert so i know at least there wasn't some sizzling movie like love scene that went down - it was probably very quick and ugly and i'm glad. <BR>Sometimes i wonder if he is telling the truth then maybe she was angry after he called her so she wrote that letter hoping i would find it and that is why she added lies. but then again that is probably wishful thinking....<BR>I do know that after I found out that she had been lying about me stealing him from her he agreed to call her in front of me and he wrote out a list of things to say to her and one was that she was never his girlfriend and he never loved her and he just used her. But she hung up on him before he could get very far ... basically all she heard was him telling her to stop lying about me and then she told him we need to move on as if we are the ones who have been harrassing her all along. I hate her so much!<BR>I'm obsessed with knowing the truth. My husband says he has told me all there is but I feel so suspicious. we argue a lot because of that. he hates talking about her but I want to know everything. he tells me I am crazy. he says it should be obvious that she means nothing to him. But it isn't obvious to me. I thought it was obvious he would never so anything like that especially with such an ugly loser but now I don't know what to think.<BR>Sorry i'm rambling....<P>

No, you're right - absolutely NOTHING justifies an affair. It's an issue with him...it sounds to me like he has difficulty being alone. That is an insecurity with him, and while you can help him, he ultimately has to deal with it on his own. You weren't able to be with him during the time of the affair - again, don't get me wrong, that's NO excuse - but it's an explanation.<P>You need to step back and figure out what you want. If you can't deal with this, than leave the marriage. If you want your marriage to work, then you can't throw this affair back in his face - making him feel guilty about it will NOT restore your marriage. It's "suicide on the installment plan." HOWEVER, if he's serious about wanting to regain your trust, he needs to A) STOP any contact with her if he hasn't already, B) Basically let you know every move that he makes - give you access to his voicemail, e-mail, let you know where he's going to be, etc. - if he has nothing to hide, this shouldn't be a problem.<P>Do you have to worry about another A? It depends. You both are going to have to work on rebuilding your marriage. And frankly, if he DOES have a problem with being alone, do what you can to be with him as often as possible. If he is away from you on a trip, I think you do have something to worry about. Again, it's not you, it's an issue with him. But you have to decide whether you're willing to deal with that possibility or not. If he's not capable of being faithful when he's away from you, then he either needs to take you with him, stay home with you, or deal with his problem through counseling.<P>I hope that helped a little bit.

By the way, this woman that he was with sounds like a real winner I think the best word for someone like her is "skank"! Don't lower yourself to her level, whatever you do. She is definitely far beneath you!

Thanks again for replying.<BR>One of the reasons i am worrying so much is that his profession he is trained for is pilot. he quit before we were married after another pilot - a friend of his - crashed and died in flight that my husband was supposed to be piloting. Just by luck my husband showed up for work early and his supervisor switched him to another flight and that other poor boy got the doomed flight. It was mechanical failure so whoever was piloting would have gone down. His parents thought HE was dead all day. So when he turned up they pressured him to quit. but flying is his love and he is thinking of applying to an airline. god help me if he does, I've heard about pilots and how they are number one in having affairs. Plus they make money so i can already see some stewardess kissing up to him and making him feel all nice and attractive and boom! i'm destroyed again. right now I am young and attractive but I know if he does something like this again when i am old and have already thrown all of my life away on him it will really destroy me.<BR>By the way I do know his password for his e-mail. But our mail here comes to a po box we share with another company and they give it to him - there is no way i can change that situation so I have no way of knowing if he is getting more letters since he sees the mail first. He promised he would tell me if she writes to him again but who knows...<BR>Once a long time back she sent him a card that simply said "friends forever" that was before I knew about all this but it irritated me because the picture on the front had a little boy holding a rose and looking lovingly at a little girl. Anyway, I told him then if she sends anything else to him ever to tell me and he said he would and he lied so.... But now I know so maybe things will be different.<BR>i'm so afraid. On the one hand I love him and if he is telling the truth then I want things to work out but on the other hand if he is lying and he is some hopeless philanderer then I want out while I can still make it on my own and maybe find happiness again. Sometimes i am so angry I feel like taking revenge on both of them. I have her address and I think about writing to her father and letting him know what she is up to. I've heard he is very strict. right now they are trying to arrange marriages for their daughters (from what I ahve heard). she can't find someone on her own so they are now looking outside of their country for suitable boys. God what a loser! Anyway he would be horrified to know he has a little slut and an ugly one at that he has to pass off as good girl to some boy's family. i hope whoever agrees to marry her sends her back after the wedding night when he sees shes been around. <BR>As for my husband sometimes i wish i could make him feel what I have felt. I'm not the type to screw around but sometimes i feel so vengeful... There are plenty of men who since i have been married have showed interest in me. they even know I am married and don't care. I know if I flirted at all I could get them. I wish my husband would realise this and appreciate that he doesn't deserve me and my faithfulness and loyalty but all he sees is how much I have bothered him since I found out. He never comforts me. This morning I had a panic attack - my heart started racing so hard I felt like I couldn't breath and my stomach was twisting. I asked him to hold me and tell me everything is going to be okay and he got angry at me and asked me why I was having a panic attack. i told him I'm not sure what set it off but I assume it has something to do with all our problems of late. He gets irritated at any sign of weakness in me. I am so far from all of my friends and family and I need someone to hold me when I cry but he becomes cold. he is only nice when I am happy. I think i've made a big mistake in life. sometimes I feel like I don't even know who I am married to. Where did the loving, kind and compassionates boy go? That b**** ruined him. I honestly believe that if you let sin eat away at you for long enough - and you don't face up to it - it can destroy you.

By the way, I'm still trying to figure out if he had a long deliberate affair or just a one night stand. what does it sound like to you from what i have written about what i know?

Dear dying inside,<P>I empathize with you. But it's hard to read your posts. Can you break them up into paragraphs? You might get more responses to them.<P>Caroline Belle makes sense. You can get more perspective also if you read about the way to end an affair, and follow the guidelines. The Harleys advise a "no contact letter" to be sent to the other person. The woman you're dealing with is devious and manipulative, that's evident by her cozying up to the family of your husband. <P>Also, the letter was a way of letting you know what was going on. She was completely indiscreet and shameless, putting their affair in writing like that. She burnt her bridges. I mean, what if her family were to have found the letter before she gave it to her lover? She would be ruined!<P>Not to mention that her lover's wife (you) might run across it. Which you did, thanks to your woman's intuition. She's determined to have your husband for her own.<P>If your husband is serious about your marriage and wants to earn back your trust, he'll write the "no contact" letter, show it to you, and make sure she gets it.<P>Like I said, go to the section on the MB boards about affairs and how they should end.<P>I would be very mistrustful if your husband refuses to do this. I would think he wishes to "have his cake and eat it, too."<P>Good luck.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Hi belle,<BR> thanks for your reply<BR>sorry for my writing style. i had to type fast because I can't neglect my son for too long and I didn't want my husband to come home and find me writing it either.<BR>just to clear something up. I'm not sure he is having an affair. i know he had a one night stand and (if he is to be believed) nothing beyond that. My problem is if i should believe him or not.<BR>it is hard because her letter makes it seem as if they are co-comspirators but she is a known liar so who knows.<BR>and he did send her a letter of no contact. In fact he returned the card she wrote to him with "please do not contact me again, there is nothing between us. i have a wife I love very much" but i have no way of knowing if he didn't contact her by some other means and negate it all. I'm too suspicious. <BR> It could be he only hid her letters from me only becuase he was afraid of me finding out about his past indiscretion. or it could be while he doesn't want her he found it a bit flattering that she still "loves" him. Or it could be like she says and he loves her but for some unexplained reason married me. Like I said i don't know what to believe my sense of intution which helped me find the letter also nags me and is on over drive making me suspicious of everything he says and does. i have panic attacks sometimes.