I am new to this forum. My husband told me 3 nights ago that the marriage thing wasn't working for him. After work the following day, he told me he had signed a 1 year lease at a townhome nearby with a stranger (guy). Last year, he had asked for a divorce, expressing a desire for more freedom to do what he wanted, when he wanted, and we continued on for another year. Until 3 nights ago, I thought things were going well but apparently he had been suppressing his anger towards my negative comments about his activities. He is not very communicative and when I said he should have told me I was doing something wrong while I was doing something wrong, in a nice fashion if possible, he replied that he is non-confrontational and that he shouldn't have to try and tell me nicely what is bothering him. But I feel guilty that I am at fault, that I have pushed a good man away. Last night, we talked for the first time and felt a weight life off our shoulders. However, he has indicated that the result of his moving out will ultimately be a divorce. And I want a second chance to make things right. I want to let him do whatever he wants to do without criticizing him in our home. I am willing to drop the topic of kids. I am 35 so kid pressure is abounding and he is 31. When he first met me, I was independent and non-critical. But being around someone non-communicative who was self-absorbed made me nag. First, he started signing up for v-ball leagues 4 times a week. Then he purchased a Camaro. Then he dyed his hair. I kept thinking each time he left the house that it would be the last time and now this is so. My nagging, that I subconsciously learned from my mom, was seen by him as an attempt to control him and he does not like being told what to do. I now see the error of my ways. Right now, I can't even think of having kids because I want him back in my life. Should I ask him for another chance or should I let him go? What should I do?

Very,<P>Did you read any of the things on the site about communication and honesty? Or the Mutual Agreement? The thing is in marriage you have a right to expect your H to spend time with you and not be out 4-5 nights a week. You also have a right to make mutual decisions especially about a large expenditure such as a car. He is acting like he is single and you are there for a sexual partner. <P>Now a tough question for you. <P>Is it possible that your husband is exploring a Bi/gay relationship? Is this why he is needing freedom?<P>Why are you beating yourself up and wanting to give him complete and total freedom. Marriage is a contract between two people taking out the **ME** aspect and making it an **US**..<P>Your H needs to come to grips that NO MATTER what type of relationship he is in. His partner is going to want him to be responsible to the relationship.<P>Prayers to you.<P>Now why can't I see my relationship as clearly as I seem to see someone elses???<P>KAT

Kat,<P>Thank you for your reply. No I haven't read that yet; I am still fumbling around in the site. But I will go read what you have suggested. On the one hand, I think this way too, but on the other hand, I think he hasn't been able to think of anyone outside of himself because I've been so irritating. If I had been supportive instead of derisive, he might have been different. I have decided that I must at least be given a second chance to treat him with respect and see what happens. That way, if it turns out that it won't work after all, I can walk away with dignity and feel that I had at least tried my best. That is the only way I can go thru with this. It is obvious to me know that we have both been dysfunctional. Neither of us spoke up and both of us just built up pain and misery inside. <BR>Re: your scenario, I can only say that men and women will always see the world differently because we were brought up differently. That men and women can even be together is amazing. I have found that asking a man a direct question about why he does what he does results in an answer totally unexpected. Which shows that we cannot assume anything. So frustrating. In fact, I asked my H last night why men like going to bars by themselves. He said, you might think this is odd, but a man would go to a bar by himself to be by himself, to get away from day to day pressures. It makes sense, but it was not the response I expected. If your H is being abusive with you in language, is this his nature? I work with guys who use the F word all day and it is just how they express himself. If he is abusive only to you, I would be concerned that he is not treating you with respect.

Very,<P>I have to laugh, my H is very proud of how respectful he is on the job. He says Yes Ma'am and Yes Sir. He prides himself on being professional. Then comes home and says M***er F**ker as if it is normal language. Calls people of Arab descent HakNads (sp) refers to women as *****es. Then when we fight it is worse. Because of the age difference he will say..."yes Mother" of course Mother" that type of thing and that one of the mild ones.<P>As for you and your Husband, I do feel that you both Need to speak to each other with respect. [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img](haha aren't I a great one to talk) And to come up with compromises that you both can live with on his time away from home. <P>I really do think you are trying to shoulder to much of the blame.<P>Go back to the home page here and read everything you can...go through the menu reading each thing even if you don't think it pertains to your situation.<P>Prayers to you<P>Kat [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img]

Kat,<P>Prayers to you as well. I am so nervous about speaking my mind tonight that I'm making myself sick. But I have to be strong, I have to do this for me, I have to be independent. <P>Very

To both of you...and if I am butting in...let me know.<P>KAT...look at what you just wrote....you husband tells you, 'yes mother' and so on. That is very disrespectful. <P>Scared...don't be. Maybe he is so in touch with himself that he cant be in touch with anyone else. You may not have been nagging. You can express your feelings, he can't. <P>You will make it through this. When I make my move I will check back in on you.<P>Hang in there.<BR>Fred

Very,<BR>You have every right to speak your mind. What you don't have the right to do, is do it in a disrespectful manner. Keep in mind that even if he is treating you with disrespect you have to try really hard to not retaliate with it.<P>This I know is very difficult. Is one of the things I am having problems with myself. I have a very bad tendency of when I feel attacked.....I attack back. This is one of the things I am working on.<P>Good luck and let me know how it went.<P>OH and Fred.....nope you not butting in. Good luck with your move.<P>Maybe after the move we can talk some more about the daughter. Being the mom of 2 teenage boys and having to try and balance my H's corrections of them and how I have rasied them for 20 years is sometimes very difficult.<P>Kat

Fred, Kat,<P>Thank you for your support. I did ask for a second chance and said he could think about it, but he said he couldn't accommodate my request. He said I reminded him of an alcoholic..try to stop taking a drink then going back to it. He admires my dedication to try and make this work, and has confidence that my behavior can change temporarily, but then he believes it will go back to being the same. I think I realize that he just isn't marriage material, you can't have your cake and eat it too, be married and live the single life that is. He is more in tune with being free and independent and marriage is more than that. The process will take awhile, I've been crying everyday.

Very,<BR>I am so sorry that you are going through this a pain.<P>I am glad that you are starting to sort out some of this though and realizing that your H is not interested at the moment in trying to keep the marriage alive. <P>Check out the link below: It has to do with Love being tough, and sometimes in order to keep your marriage together you need to let your spouse go. **sigh** this can be difficult but it also kind of goes hand in hand with what is taught here about Plan B.<P>Go read it and see what you think, you never know It might just work.<P>You can't do anything to change his mind about his choices, all you can do is try and change what he says is bothering him about you. And hope that when he sees the changes he will feel the love he felt before.<P>good luck and prayers <A HREF="http://www.family.org/married/newlywed/a0011760.cfm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.family.org/married/newlywed/a0011760.cfm</A> <P>Kat

Kat,<P>Thank you again for your support. I know you are right. I know I can change my approach when I am around him. I know that I cannot change him. When we first met, he was having alcohol problems. Even though I could have thrown in the towel, I stood by and waited for him every night, expressed my concern, prayed for him. I felt helpless, but I knew all I could do was stick in their with him. After a year, he didn't come home on time one day after calling and saying he was on his way home, so I was worried to death. Turns out the cops had picked him up for DUI. I went to him. He then realized his problem..that he was taking after his dad and he quit cold turkey (went to non-alcholic beer; a godsend). I was very proud of this accomplishment of his. So I have asked him if he will go back to drinking. He said, probably not, if I am his friend, because I have always been very supportive of this accomplishment of his. If you were to meet my H, you would ask are there more out there like him. He has all the good qualities of a good man, faithful, loyal friend, good listener, disciplined. Unfortunately, he is not a good communicator but a lot of men aren't. He has not had a good father figure or a good male friend. I told him he needs to find that. He needs to learn how to express his emotions instead of bottling them up inside, even now he does not express his emotions re: the separation. His shell is pretty tough. I now will be putting a shell back around my heart, so I can let it heal. I will give him an open invitation to come to me whenever he needs a friend because that is what he lacks. Meanwhile, he will continue to pursue money and material things because they are concrete and consistent, but he will always be unhappy and in a constant state of want. I have told him that it is important to value people, to find happiness in what he has already, to find happiness in the ride of life. I will make changes to myself and my approach to him. That is what I will do everytime he comes by, since most of his belongings are still here and he has said that we don't have to rush about the divorce process. I wish him happiness; if he doesn't find it and he may never, then my pain and loss would have been for naught. I wish I could do more for him, but I know I cannot. I will sent him free...because I love him. Kat, I will check your link out.

Very,<P>Good luck to you, don't forget to **lurk** on some of the other letters. They will make you think, and reassess what is going on in your life.<P>I have been doing that myself and trying to figure out some of my own motivations in my marriage.<P>Oh and I do have a tendency to **OVER** think things [img]images/icons/smile.gif" border="0[/img] <P>Keep on posting here.You are only at the beginning of the emotional roller coaster ride. Hang on tight and when you feel the need to scream......come here.....vent......get it out..then continue the ride.<P>-Kat-

Kat,<P>How can be so cool, calm and emotionless about this? We had to go to a b-day party today (previous commitment) and he seemed as if life had already moved on for him. He told me he met his roommate at the bar last night and will be doing so again tonight. I feel like someone stuck a knife in my heart and then twisted it. It just hurts so much; it really is going to take time, isn't it?

Hi. I am new to this site too and have been reading Very's pain. It's sad but I know what you're going thru' Very. I am, unfortunately in the same boat, just that i'm in a worst position that you're in. When he left, he had promised to get my daughter and my US-VISA applications done, but to date he hasn't. We argued quite a bit, but he sees it as a fight. Just recently i found out from a friend that he's planning to divorce me, but he didn't tell me of such. Just that he's tired of us "fighting". I've told him many times that there are no marriages in this whole wide world that goes thru its life without a fight or argument. He wants us to compromise but he's doesn't seem to show it at all. My daughter sees me in the mornings after he and I talked in the night and she knows that daddy and I had an argument. I don't want to break her heart, she loves her grandparents back in the States and is looking forward to move there and have a normal family life again. I know I have been a good wife to him, but I just don't know what else I have to do. He calls me once a week on Friday nites, and i pay for the calls. But money was never an issue for me. I love him and don't want to lose him, and i've told him this before that I'm willing to be his slave-wife if that's what it takes. He says he loves me too but just dont want to make the wrong decision. I need help too. And I have not stop crying for a while now. It is very hard to concentrate on work and home and when there's no one's here to hold me.

Very,<P>Trust me I am not calm and cool. I do think I am in withdrawal but that has been an on off thing.<P>As for him telling you about meeting his new room mate in the bar I again have to question if he is pursuing a gay/bi relationship. If so you need to be especially cautious about any type of intimate relationship with him.<P>I think if it was me I would have to ask him in a non judgemental way if this is what he is doing because that brings in a whole other set of problems and concerns.<P>Chin up kiddo you are stronger then you know and you can make it through this.<P>Try and remember just like other tragic things in your past. "This too shall pass"<P>Sad,<BR> I take it that your H is back in the USA and you are still in your home country.<P>This is going to be a hard question for you to answer. Please don't think I am attacking you. But is it possible that you are trying to keep the relationship going at least untill you have your VISA in order? And could this stress be coming across to him in the fact that really what you want from him is access to the USA and not him?<P>-Kat-<p>[ October 14, 2001: Message edited by: -Kat- ]

Kat,<P>I left the "he" out of my previous reply. That was not directed at you. How can "he" be so calm, cool and emotionless when he's around me? I know that this will pass; what I need to figure out is how to face the future. <P>Sad,<P>Why would you want to be a slave-wife - that would not be healthy for you or be a good example for your daughter. I understand your pain of missing someone to hold you; you feel like you can't go on with day to day activities because it hurts so much. But I hear there are other fish in the sea and someone who will treat us with respect and dignity. It will take time to heal.

VERY,<P>Is there anything that you have thougth during your life that you would like to do? <P>Go back to school? Join some kind of club? Join a bowling team? <P>Do some of these things, go on with your life. That might be the trick to getting your H back to. Sometimes the spouse just thinks we are going to sit and wait for them to get done. They see us as weak and unable to get along without them. <P>They are in a fog and only thinking of their pleasure at the moment.<P>I remember as a kid thinking that my MOM did nothing all day but wait for me to come home from school and brighten her day.<P>Well unfortunately, sometimes our Spouses get in that mode too, and you have to show them that you aren't sitting home waiting.<P>I am not saying you need to date. I am just saying do something that is going to make you feel good about you.<P>-Kat-<p>[ October 14, 2001: Message edited by: -Kat- ]

Kat,<P>My mom just called and told me the same thing....except that she lectured me instead of being supportive like you did. I'm okay in the afternoons, it's the evenings and mornings that are hard. I think I'd like to sign up for a dance class. What will be difficult is seeing him at v-ball on Tues & Thurs. I can't just drop out of these commitments either because on the one team I am the captain, on the other, I am replacing a lady who had knee surgery. But I can be professional...if I can do it at work, I can do it at play. He came by today to mow the grass, then he stopped in and we talked or rather I talked and he listened. I asked him if he thought I was attacking him lately and he said no. He lingered at the house watching TV with me and, in my mind, I wanted him to leave since my girlfriend was coming over, but my heart took over and I didn't say anything. Eventually I got up and so did he. And he left with more items for his townhome. Absence in my case makes the heart grow fonder. I think I will go search for a dance class tomorrow. Thanks, Kat. Your support means a lot to me.

Very,<P>That's what this forum is about is support, and I think the dance class is a wonderful idea. <P>I do think you need to read PlanB though.<P>Your husband chose to leave you, It is nice that he is coming back and mowing the lawn, but if you have other plans then you need to tell him, I'm sorry but I really don't have time to visit right now, can we set up a time to talk that is convinent for both of us I have plans" and leave it at that.<P>ANYONE ELES have thoughts on this?<P>-KAT-

kat, please dont get me wrong. it was never the issue of a VISA for a green card thing. i'm trying to keep this marriage going because i love him and want us for us not for money or a permanent residency in the states. he was living with us here in singapore, my home country, as we have together decided it will be a little easier as i have a house and have a steady career and that we would stay here for at least 2 years before we go back home. i applied for his permanent residency here in singapore way before he came over. part of his anger came from not being able to find a job here due the fact that he's from has a military background and doesnt have alot of basic "knowledge" of the corporate world. i never wanted him to be sitting behind a desk in an office with a suit and tie, all i wanted was for him to choose whichever line of work he's comfortable with. he wanted to pursue a degree in the accounting and business sector, and because he wasn't working yet, i paid for his first semester and enrollment fees. and all i said was, that i'll help him to any extent if that is what he wants. i would even wait up for him in the nite till he gets home from class. as much as i dislike wrestling on tv, i would still tape the series for him so that he won't miss any while he's at class. he is afraid that by getting the papers in for us, would mean that should we go our separate ways, i'll end up with half if his assets and paycheck and etc. you know how hurt i am when i heard that. if at all it should be who should be weary. i've told him that i'm willing to sell the house here for us to buy a house there. it made me feel like i'm only out for his money. kat, please try and understand this. he has just started work, and is still living with his parents. when we met up in july for the summer, i paid for my own airfare coz he said he doesnt have much to spare, except for my spending money there. i never complained. he says he's tired of the fighting, but how can an argument be a fight - if there aren't any arguments then something is really wrong. i love him for him not for his money or status or his assets - which he doesnt have much. i just want to be with him, be it good times or bad. i want us to be a family again - like we use to. he is younger than i am, but does that mean that i have to try and understand his feelings and needs but he doesn't have to be sensitive to my needs and feelings?

Sad,<P>Please forgive me, I was not trying to make you feel bad at all. I can certainly see where you might think that I was.<P>I was only approaching one aspect of it.<P>Have you read any of the information on Emotional Needs. I understand your needing to have your needs met by your H. We all have that.<P>I am not sure what is going on with your H or why he is feeling the way he is. My H is also much younger then I am, and I am dealing with his immaturity. <BR>I think that sometimes I make him feel less of a man by providing too much for him and ending up in almost a parent type role.<P>Maybe since you were so willing to do for him he started thinking of you more in the MOM role then in the wife role and that damaged his ego?<P>I am guessing here.<P>prayers for you and yours. <BR>Read what you can on the Marriage Builders Site, Lurk on some of the other letters and try and get some insight to what things you can change. YOU can't change him. only he can do that.<P>-Kat-