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I have to agree with you regarding the "sexless marriage." In this case, I would not condone porn/masterbation. It is a healthier release than an affair or hookers. But there also needs to be a resolution...has there been any counseling to work at this issue? I have to admit that this is a case where, due to incompatibility, going their seperate ways may be the answer. Especially in the case of newlyweds...this hasn't been much time to have things go sideways such as, lose of a child or other catastrophe.

When I condone porn/masterbation is when the other partner is more than willing to please. And what I get tired of hearing is that porn is a normal guy thing...I feel it is just an excuse for behaviour.

I honestly feel for those that aren't getting satisfaction in their relationship...there isn't a feeling I enjoy more than to make love and cuddle with the one I love. I crave it!!!

In my current relationship, I'm the one that initiates sex almost 100% of the time. That's why when I found out he viewed porn when I wasn't home, I was deeply hurt. Here is a warm body right next to you that feels she's begging for sex...you see my point don't you?

Yet, in my previous marriage, I was told that sex was expected at least once a day. I asked, what if I'm don't want to. There wasn't a response...the marriage ended because he didn't respect me as a person. In this case, I got to where I didn't ever want sex, but it wasn't the sex that turned me off, it was him.

Hope this helps...and I wish the best to all.

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I'm sad to hear about your first marriage not working out. Also sad to hear about how your man is substituting porn for you. That's not right and I understand your hurt.

My wife and I are somewhat in the same situation as your first marriage. I am very hungry for sex and want it 1x a day. She is tired of my non-stop hunger for sex and is growing increasingly turned off. What complicates things drastically is that she has a hang up about masterbation. So I'm honoring that, that increases my sex drive, only to be told she's not all that interested in sex either. You can imagine how nuts and caged in I feel. We are working on it though. Our sex life and good will feelings are improving just a bit. I am trying to fill her love tank with romantic things more now to try and show her that I do love her beyond sex.

That said, in theory, I think masterbation can exist even inside a healthy, sexually satisfied relationship. I think the key is "in addition to" and not "in subsitutute of". Sometimes it's nice to be free of all demands of if you are pleasing your partner and masterbate only focusing on your own pleasure. I also thing it's great for balancing out drive imbalances between couples. If the wife wants it 1x a week and the guy wants it 7x a week, great, the guy can masterbate 6x a week in a way that doesn't bother his wife.

I'm off on a tangent. Just wanted to really make a case for that. My wife isn't cool with masterbation at all and I really wish she was. So if you are a wife that's sitting on the fence of if you are ok with it or not, please please make your husband happy and tell him you're cool with it. You don't like porn? Ok -- the husband needs to relent there. But please be cool with masterbation!

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WOW! Can you come and talk with my wife!!!

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I'm sorry to hear of your dilemma. It is sad to hear of an incompatibility in something that should be one of the deepest connections in a relationship.

The difference between your situation and my 1st marriage is that he didn't respect me, I was his piece. From your comments, you are trying very hard to please your wive and respect her wishes. In fact, when I read your post earlier stating that you were giving up porn for her feelings...I got tears. To me, that would be the ultimate...saying that you are truly forsaking all others for this relationship...WOW.

When I confronted my SO about porn viewing, he told me that "he enjoyed looking at beautiful women" but he wouldn't anymore since it bothers me. But...my problem is that now I catch myself being suspicious. If he truly did, I would be so happy. I want to think that he didn't just say it to appease me.

Personally, if I didn't want to have sex, I wouldn't have a problem with masterbation. In my own experience, my desire for sex is very much determined by the relationship and their approach. The demanding approach of ex was a turn off...it didn't matter what my needs were...do your wifely duty. Currently, I love sex and can't get enough...but SO says that his libido is slow due to age (50). I'm the one that wants to do it almost every day and he would be happy with 1x week.

Women need to feel loved before they can love. I know this isn't easy for you because you need something more immediate...but have you tried to romance her off her feet? Were you two close and intimate before marriage? What did you two do then for romance? Yes, she needs to know that you want her for more than sex, but she also needs to give a little. Maybe a date for sex...lead into with a slow dancing, bubble bath, etc. and a date for no sex could be a walk, go to museum, etc. The main thing is to spend time together.

Has your wive sought any counseling/coaching?

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I hope your husband can give up porn for you. It will be very hard for him and he will have some weak moments. But try to trust him if he is trying for you.

I had some weak moments in the last 8 years and now my wife doesn't trust me. She thinks I am hiding porn from her or going on dating web sites. I'm not, but I can't get her to believe me. How do I get her to trust me again? I wish I had never gotten into porn because I now realize how much it hurt our relationship and her trust.

I don't demand sex. I think it is the wife's gift to give to her husband whenever she feels he deserves it. I can try to lead her in that direction, but ultimately it is her decision.

We did have some romance before marriage and in our first few years together. I used to surprise her with candle light dinners, flowers for no reason, tickets to concerts, we would take lots of baths together, I'd shave her legs and shampoo her hair, foot massages, I'd put love notes in her lunch and her car, I'd dress up as 'Tex', camping in the back yard, X-rated drive-ins, slow train rides in a sleeper car, trips to the Poconos, Niagara Falls, Orlando,... God, I miss being close to her.

We never had a great sex life, but we had affection and fun and companionship. Now all of those are gone. I actually miss the affection more than I miss the sex.

But since the kids came, she wants to spend all of her time with the kids and her girl friends. There is no US time, and she rejects any romance. I've asked her to movies and she said if I want to go I can go by myself. I asked her to just sit and talk and she calls me selfish and questions my motives. We won a honeymoon weekend at a local hotel and she had to bring the kids.

I think she just no longer loves me and and can't accept my love. Since the relationship died, so did an chance of intimacy. And I can't get it back if she resists.

Today my wife said she wants to go to a counselor by herself!!!! There still is some hope!!

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Trust is a hard thing to get back...you're right, it would have been easier to have not lost it in the first place. You made me think...what would it take for me to trust. It would be time and no weak moments. But if there was one weak moment and I found out about it, I would believe that it had been going on all along. Maybe that's how your wife feels. I have wanted to ask my SO if he still does, but I don't want him to know how paranoid I am. If he doesn't feel trusted, he may not care as much. But it does hurt deeper than I can describe...it is betrayal and cheating. I've been told by others to get over it and it isn't a big deal. If it isn't a big deal, why does it hurt so much. We're all different and I have to go with what makes me feel good or bad to make my own personal decisions.

You have a hard road ahead of you, but if you are commited, you can make a difference. How about you getting coaching? You feel there is a chance if she goes to counseling, maybe she'll feel you are trying if you go. ADVICE...the right coach may not be the first you talk to. There has to be a personality fit. In my 1st marriage, I went to counseler and she was the one that suggested seperation/divorce. It woke me up to how I was living...it was for the best.

How old are the children? The family should do things together but the parents also need time alone. Which is what sounds like you aren't getting. You are right...not much of a honeymoon with children. I had a sister that used her children to keep her husband away...such as the babies sleeping in the bed, etc. Having them around 24/7 isn't healthy.

What if you start off subtly getting back to romance...leave a note under her pillow. Don't make it mushy but tell he you something simple. Send her a simple (single or triple) flowers at home/work. Do little things for her. I put toothpaste on his brush, etc. Do things that are affectionate and see how she responds. Personally experience and I've read lately...to make love to a woman at night, start in the morning. The prolonged anticipation can be as exciting.

Definitely check out the coaching aspect...they are experts and can help you see what you do to contribute and how to help change both of your patterns. I wish you the best of luck.

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HeartOnE...I have read some of your other postings and see that you are seeking help and what your wive says and does to you. You truly have your hands full and I give you credit for continuing to try. You are good to use the forum to get feedback and ideas from others...a healthy way to deal.

I read an email today that made me think of you. There is a web site...www.MortFertel.com
On the top left of the home page there is a space to put in your email and receive 7 reports. Today I received number 6...BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE.

He talks about how you can not get someone to change because it is imposed by you. The best thing you can do is make changes yourself and let them see how you are...and to give them the space to make the decision to want change themselves.

I would suggest getting these emailed to you. One can never have too many resources or ideas to help resolve issues. Who knows, maybe this person can help you. Good luck!

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My wife has seen a counselor a time or two about trying to become ok with masterbation. Money's tight lately so she hasn't been recently. It's sort of on the back burner (I think).

The last two days our sex life has been great. I'd like to think that it's because we're getting along better and she sees a genuine effort on my part to respect her and show her that I love her.

What I wanted to mention to you is that often things aren't very clean cut and perfect though. Like, with the porn, we went through our phases too where I told her I'd stop looking at porn and still did. There was lots of disfunctional things that went on. There were times where she was soo mad at me that she'd pull up porn on the laptop and "enjoy" it and then turn it off when I wanted to join in. Really messed up stuff. But we've moved beyond that now. I don't view porn to give her peace of mind and she doesn't do a lot of the disfunctional stuff that she used to (which translated to me that she didn't respect me).

So as I was saying, sometimes the problem lies in how we make each-other feel by our actions; not how we really feel towards one another. In a lot of ways it's been an educational process for me-- to make the signals that I'm sending match how my heart feels towards her. I've always loved my wife and respected her. But I did have a period where it was hard to break myself free of porn. I still struggle in a HUGE way to keep to my pormises of no masterbation. When I would fail, it translated to her that I didn't honor her or that she was a piece of meat. I was often accused of not making her feel loved, that sex was the only thing I cared about, that I was a lier, ect ect ect. I love her and didn't want to make her feel anything less than important but they were strong, internal drives and doing it her way felt like I was squashing my freedom and instinct and manhood. It's very complex. But I am doing my very best to see it from her point of view and to honor her.

See what I'm saying? Make room for imperfections and slip ups and stuff so that you don't incorrectly think that your husband doesn't love you because he slips up or behaves less than perfectly at times. Sometimes it takes a while for him to see the light.

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I don't mean to jump in on your thread, but what you guys are discussing is exactly what my H and I are going through right now. I need some one to talk to!

Here's my story and I apologize if it gets lengthy:
-26yrs old, married 5, together 10, 1 child-3yrs in January.

About 31/2-4 years ago I found out through my H's admittion that he was watching porn. I was deeply, deeply hurt. I have always been a willing partner, I wasn't one to withhold sex. I felt unattractive and that I wasn't enough for him. It made me feel like there must be something laking in me to make him feel like watching it. He didn't seem to care about how much it hurt me. After alot of crying, begging, and fighting he finally agreed to get rid of it. I asked him not to watch porn videos or go on the internet again for my sake.

Since then he would occasionally say things to make it sound like I was trying to control him and that he "wasn't allowed to watch porn". Unlike you, Rocky, I did ask once in a while if he was hiding any porn. His answer was always no. "I'm not allowed to have any porn"

A few months ago, things were weird between us. He wouldn't talk to me about it, and I was feeling uneasy. I decided to snoop around. He had always left the key to his gun cabinet on top of the cabinet. It wasn't there. I looked around some more and found it. When I opened it I found a small stash of DVD's. Two of them were videos of naked girls. I was devistated, hurt, and extremely angry. I broke them. I know, that was not the right thing to do, but I was running on pure emotion. I left him a note with the broken DVDs, telling him how hurt I was and that I would never trust him again. He bold faced lied to me. He found them a few days later.

After some time and talking, he sort of apologized, but tried to justify himself by saying that it wasn't porn because there was no penetration. I asked that we have COMPLETE honesty from now on. He, all to willingly, agreed.

A few weeks later I accidentally opened one of his credit card bills thinking it was mine. I saw that, several times that month, while we were supposed to be being honest, he was frequenting Hooters. I was still feeling very hurt and insecure by the porn issues. I confronted him about it. He said that he didn't tell me because he knew I would flip out. So I asked if he had been to any strip clubs. His answer was, "While we've been married, none." But evidentally, before we were married he had gone to a few. I was hurt, but not as hurt as I was about the porn. After all, it was before we were married. But my trust in him was shot, so I questioned him about it again the next night. His new answer, "Since we've been married, once". He LIED TO ME AGAIN, straight to my face. I lost it. I started to scream at him, I wanted to die, I wanted him to die. I hated him.

I don't know what to do. I'm so hurt and I totally don't trust him. I've always had low self esteem, but now I have none. Whenever I have tried to talk to him he just gets defensive and tells me to just let it go, it was in the past. But to me the lies are still very much in the present. I wonder what else hes hiding. He feels that I'm dragging it out, but he has done very little to reassure me about his love for and attraction to me. I've given up trying to talk to him because it just makes things worse. I feel like I'm getting to the point of indifference. I ordered "His Needs, Her Needs" today, but I'm not sure its going to do any good since I'm not sure he'll agree to read it.

Please, please, I need someone to talk to and confide in. I need some support.

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I'm interested in talking to you. I can only give you the guy's perspective and the perspective of a guy who struggled with porn to a mild extent and still struggles with showing his wife that he loves her dearly but has a RAGING sex drive that often gets in the way.

I will need to tell my wife that I'm communicating with you though and she may decide she doesn't want me talking to a woman about such things. We'll see. But I am interested in hearing your concerns.

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PLEASE, be open and honest with her. I wouldn't be so hurt if mt H had been. I'm now in tears, because I wish my H was that honest with me and I'm not sure he ever will. I won't be offended if she doesn't want you talking to me about this.

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I don't know your husband but my gutt tells me that he does love you. I imagine he simply doesn't see what the big deal is or worse, he may want to give it up for you but be addicted.

Honestly, for myself, I feel that porn is harmless. I love my wife in a much deeper and wholesome way than the way that I enjoy "cheap" porn. If I thought there was a way to help my wife understand that it doesn't mean she's less than perfect, I would try. But I think that's just the way that women are "wired". That they really focus on their body and are affraid that the man is going to like what he sees on the screen better than them. So at that point I think it's the man's job to say "I can live without porn; it may not be as free of a lifestyle but some cheap thrills at the expense of my wife feeling like dirt isn't worth it"

However, in turn, women must also understand how men are "wired". In the same way that men have a hard time understanding why women get soo insecure and hurt over porn, women have to understand that while they may never be able to really grasp why the male sex drive is soo strong and animalistic, at some point they need to stop trying to convert their man and make him think like a woman. Comments such as "just don't think about it" in regards to being horny is a clear example of women not understanding how strong the drive is. Women need to surrender to the idea that men have very primal sexual needs. What she can and should demand is that he learn to make love and show love to her in addition to his primal needs but to try and take away his primal need is a mistake.


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wasp89...thank you for the feedback. I will try to keep this in mind. But I also wish he could understand how it makes me feel...I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach and get so angry, I want to walk away. In fact, this would be the fastest way for my libido to take a major dive. I have no desire to be with a man that lusts after other women...none. In fact, I'd rather be alone than deal with it.

needtotalk...currently, my SO said that he would stop and I haven't found anything that says contrary, but I'm very paranoid about it. I don't want to say that he gave in too easily but I'm afraid that he appeased me and is sneaking around. If he has stopped, I'd be the happiest woman on earth...he is so great in other aspects of our lives.

I have put much thought into what I will do if he lied and is still viewing. I love him very much and he treats me with respect, more than any man I've ever known. BUT...if he continued, I know that I can't live with it. Truthfully, I would be happier alone than dealing with it. It would eat me alive from the inside...what kind of a life is that.

My initial thoughts on what you wrote are...1) he doesn't respect your feelings, 2) he lied/lies to you, 3) has no intention of stopping and expects you to accept it.

You need to think about what you want!!! What can and can't you live with. Then, seek help in counseling/coaching and let them know your main goal is to be able to make the right decisions for yourself.

I'm not telling you to leave him and I'm not telling you to stay...just don't leave things as they are. Only you know what you want/need!

I hoped this helped...take care of yourself!

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I don't think that he is addicted, he claims that he might look at it once a month. But with all the lies and the lackluster sex life, I'm not sure that I believe him. The fact that, not even a month prior to his latest lie, he agreed to be honest, and then lied has done so much more damage than just knowing about the porn and strip club. I don't feel the same about him, and I don't know if I ever will. To me, trust is such an important marital issue, that if it is no longer there, I don't know if I can try anymore. I'm getting tired of trying.

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You have to do what you are comfortable with. To me, the lying aspect is the worse. Like you say, you can't help but wonder if he is lying about other things too. I doubt he is but it's natural to feel that way.

I would really ask you to reconsider your thoughts of leaving him though. Worse case would you be able to separate and live somewhere else till he shapes up? I know you are deeply hurt and it turns you off that he's behaving this way but please try to let cool heads prevail and not take it to the level of divorce.

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wasp89...I want you to know that I really appreciate this correspondence and your honest feedback. Also, I read what you say and am struggling with it.

If a man should say "I can live without porn"...then why don't they say it and do it? Also, I know that you and other men think it is harmless...if it is, why are we writing about it now? It obviously effects relationships in a negative way.

needtotalk...I hope that I didnt' come on too strong but I feel that most women cave in and/or do whatever makes the least amount of waves. I just want you to find out what you want/need and go from there.

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(getting tired of trying) I know. My wife got like that. There was a time where we were both SOOOO worn out. We weren't sleeping soundly at night at all. Neither of us trusted each other. It was awful. But I assure you it can be rebuilt. If there was an affair, that's a different story. I'd be recommending you get the divorce drawn up and send FedEx overnight. But this kind of stuff... please keep trying. Eventually it'll work itself out. Either you won't be soo offended by it or he'll see it's not worth the pain it causes you.

My wife had a real hard time rebuilding the trust. At times she smothered my freedom to the point where I felt I was going crazy. But she slowly has began trusting and her faith is well put because I am no longer viewing porn. There are happy endings that can occurr if only you'll give it time and keep working at it.

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What I meant by harmless is that it's harmless in my mind. Not that the pain it causes women is harmless. According to my wife, the pain comes from the fear that I'm going to like the girl on the screen better than her. That I'm going to think of it while we are having sex. That I'm going to wish she were skinnier. Or would do some kind of act that she's not willing to do but that I saw on the screen.

For me personally, all those concerns are pretty much void. The best way I can describe it is that a man's brain is extremely separated. Not to mention, I never viewed porn with an emotional connection to the girl. I never wanted to date the girl. I never wished to have real contact with her. She was a girl inside the TV and that's where she belonged. Actually, I view girls in porns as "dirty". Contrast that with how I view my wife. I view her as wholesome, a companion, my ONE AND ONLY WIFE, a girl who I enjoy watching sleep, a girl who I love memorizing parts of her body, a girl who I'm affraid I will forget how she looks if I were to be away from her for a week or two. I'm deeply in love with her. The world of porn never ever crosses into that wholesome realm of my thoughts.

For many guys, this is the case but women's minds don't work like that and so they imagine that we think the same way and figure we convert fantacies that we've seen on TV into personal fantacies too. But we don't.

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Sorry to have disappeared. Thank you all for your comments.

Rocky, I agree that women tend to cave, I watched my mom do that all her life. You didn't come off too strong, and I 100% agree with you on the issue. I don't want to toss out my 10 years with him either. He seems to be sensing my exasperation, and has been trying. I would like to try counseling, but it is so expensive.

Wasp, I understand what your saying as well, but here's the problem, I am willing. If he wanted it every day, then I would gladly do it. I, like your wife, fear that it is the girls in the videos that he thinks about, and that someday I won't fulfill his needs, and he will go elsewhere. I feel like I'm not fulfilling them now. Even with things not so great between us, if he wants some SF then he gets it. Otherwise, I would be pushing him to find alternatives. I have been so obsessed with not physically being attractive that I've lost 20 pounds and I exercise like crazy. At least it is a healthier stress reliever than others I could have chosen. And I am starting to feel better about myself, but I still have bad days.

A stupid thing that I did do, and I'm not sure why, is after I broke the DVDs, I ordered him Playboy. I figured that this way he couldn't lie about having porn. The subscription came with a free DVD. So I replaced what I broke. So now I have created monthly torture. STUPID!! Should I cancel it?

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Wow. It's almost commical the disfunction that goes on when one is emotionally distraut. Why in the world did you order him playboy? Are magazines ok with you but not videos? If so, I understand you were compromising in a sense so I appload that but you probably shouldn't have ordered it at all. For now, don't cancel it. You want to be consistant. Giving, taking away, changing your message to him creates instability, confusion, and stress. Cancel it once the year's subscription is up.

My wife struggles with body image too. She often says she doesn't feel attractive. She may have gained just a little bit but that makes absolutely no difference to me. I am in love with her. My mind is much deeper than to lose attraction for her simply because she might have gained just a little. My wife is special. It is my job to let her know that. But in all honesty, it is her that is putting pressure on herself worrying about her body image. At one point in time I was like "your insecurities are your problem; you need to deal with them". But I've since realized it isn't as simple as that. I need to make her feel loved and special. Viewing porn doesn't help her feel that way because she is "wired" to feel threatened by other women. So what I CAN do is stop viewing porn. I really feel like your husband needs to come to that point. Maybe over time you can work on your self esteem and let him look at magazines or watch a video with him but for now, I really think he should give up porn of all kinds.

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