Hi all -

I've lurked here for about two years, but this is the first time I've ever posted. There are lots of very brave and helpful people on this site, and you all and Dr. Harley should be proud of what you've built. For all involved in infidelity, this is a beacon of hope and help.

I'm the WH. I'm 34. Been married almost seven years. My A lasted about five months during a very difficult time in our marriage (first few years of marriage, very busy with work and grad school, very high-stress for us both, lots of fighting). The A was mostly just conversation, but a few times when we kissed -- no sex. I ended it more than two years ago. After it ended, I told myself that I just couldn't hurt my wife so badly by telling her, and that I would dedicate myself to improving the marriage on my end. I've spent the last two years doing that and by all accounts (my W included), it really became better and healthier than ever.

Oh, and as far as NC is concerned, OW and I work together, so I've had continued contact over this time, but nothing inappropriate at all. We've remained work friends and that is it. Before you beat me up too badly on that point, however, I did call and establish NC today. OW took it well and agreed.

I thought I had gotten through it and could keep it to myself and take my secret to the grave. Well, about eight weeks ago the memory of the A reared its ugly head again -- bad -- I could barely function and again became very depressed and guilty about the whole thing. My W began to notice and started to blame herself for not being able to make me happy. I couldn't live with that, plus the pain of the A memory, plus this single glaring dishonesty in a marriage that had otherwise improved so dramatically, plus the fact that she is now pregnant with our first child, so I finally confessed to her last week.

She deserved to know. It just came out during a very emotional night of talking and crying together. I didn't intend to tell her and I still wish I had waited until a less stressful time for her (but more about that in another post later).

She took it well initially, telling me almost immediately, "we'll get through this," and "it's going to be OK." She even at first started to say she was sorry for not being there for me when I needed her and that it pushed me into this. I stopped her immediately and told her it was 100 percent my fault and not to blame herself.

I've told her how much I love her, how much she means to me, how sorry and remorseful I am, and how I'll do anything to keep our M together.

She told me I needed to go to IC, which I've already started this week. I mentioned to her that she might want to do the same, or that we may want to do MC together. She says she's not sure about that -- saying that IC would just "drag out the memory" for her and that "we needed MC seven years ago -- not now. We've learned how to finally deal with each other over the past couple of years without counseling."

It's been almost a week now and we're still trying to get adjusted. She doesn't really want to talk about it (no questions yet about A details), and I haven't pressed, other than to tell her that I'm here for her 24/7 and will be ready to do whatever it takes, however uncomfortable, to move things forward (on her timeline) and help begin the path to recovery.

She's very tired because of the pregnancy and a very stressful time at work, and I can understand that she doesn't want to deal with this right now. She's said over and over that she "just wants things to be back to normal" and that she's "sad" and "confused" and that I'm "the last person she would ever expect to do something like this." I assume she's just still in the shock and denial stage, and I'm getting buckled up for the anger phase next, but it doesn't seem to be coming (it's only been a week). She obviously doesn't want to be touched by me (completely understandable), although she will sometimes permit a forehead kiss and occasional hug. She needs physical affection right now and it's killing me to see her not be able to get it from me because of what I've done.

So, here I am, just waiting. Waiting to see if she's going to get mad, give up, or get even somehow. I'm a mess, and she tells me that she feels sorry for me and the state I'm in. I tell her to worry about her, not me -- I deserve how I'm feeling, she doesn't. I'm trying to be strong but the tears come very easily (like this morning -- I woke up with my hand on her back in bed and she promptly removed it -- it was tough). I'm still in the house and she's let me stay in the bed as well.

I just don't know quite what else to do, so I'm looking for any input from all you pros out there.

I know it's early, but what do you think the prospects are? Any insight into what's going on in her head, or what tomorrow may bring? Anything more I can do? Anything I've done right? Anything I've done wrong (other than the obvious, of course)? How can I be stronger for her? I'm most worried that she's just opting not to deal with it at all and that it's going to be a much bigger problem later.

Just looking for some help and thoughts.

Thanks for reading.

-----------------

WH (me) 34
BW (her) 34
baby on the way
married almost 7 years
PA/EA Dec. 2002-Apr. 2003
d-day 06/30/05

just give her time.....do the counseling and follow her lead for now. she may very well be shelving it for now---during the pregnancy. time and patience....keep reading and posting.
only suggestion i have---cut all contact from ow...quit if you have to. get the he// away from her....NOW. dont question it---just do it. do it for your wife and for her healing...get out the paper and start looking for a new job today!

Welcome to marriage builders. You did the best thing in confessing to your wife. Would she consider reading or posting here?

Could I say that as the BS I guess one of the things that I would mostly like to hear from my FWH is "I am sorry". If you are sorry then I think if you haven't said it already then you should let her know.

Just a little tip from a BS.

HINY

Hi and thanks for the input:


nikko - Job search is already underway. Like I said, NC has been established but I understand it's a respect thing to improve BW's ability to heal.


believer - I doubt she'd be willing to come to MB forums to read or post. Any ideas for getting her interested? She's not really into sharing her feelings/thoughts with anyone but me, and she certainly doesn't write them down. Her reluctance to doing things like going to MC or coming here (although I haven't talked to her about MB) has me a bit worried. I honestly think she believes we can just get through this on our own. Do you think that works for some people or is it a recipe for disaster? Seems to me no outside help at all is better than a bad marriage counselor who might put us a path to DV, but in a perfect world I'd like to find something else that could help us through...


HopefulinNY - I've said sorry, and will keep saying it. I just hope it's enough. Seems to me that "sorry" doesn't quite cut it in this situation. Any ideas for actions -- rather than words -- that can help show love and remorse? Anything in particular work for you?

hmmm.

Here, think on this...

You told her it is 100% you, not her fault. And yet, MB claims to have some ability to salvage a marriage, fall deeply back in love...blah blah blah .. all those good things. The whole concept of love bank, and things like that... those principles IMPLY that it is partly her fault. That she wasn't loving you the way you needed...and if that isn't the case, then she is probably sitting there right now wondering how in the world she is ever gonna feel safe with you, because, even when she was doing everything right, you had an affair....

So, before pushing her towards this site, you might want to consider that. It was just something I've been thinking on.

Good point RookKev.

I guess what I meant is that she has no responsibility for, and should take no responsibility for, the A itself. That was my (bad) decision and 100 percent my responsibility. It is true that both people are responsible for a marriage and that there were problems -- created by both of us -- in our marriage that made me VULNERABLE to an A. But lots of people in not-so-great marriages are vulnerable to affairs and they manage to not fall into the A trap.

I did, and that's 100 percent my fault. She may bear some responsibility in my vulnerability, but she bears no culpability for my actions in the A.

Moving forward, so she can feel safe again, I think we first will need to work through my faults and what permitted my vulnerability to take over and allowed me to submit to the A. For example, was it a character flaw or was it just a "perfect storm" of circumstances, outside pressures, vulnerability and opportunity? My IC, I'm hoping, will help with that and my commitment to the counseling should make my BW feel more secure about the future.

After that, we can talk about some of the things she may have done that may have contributed to the vulnerability. To be honest, however, most of the factors that contributed to the distance and probs in our M (both of us being in grad school, both of us working harder and harder to try and get ahead, both of us adjusting to being married in the first place) have largely gone away now.

There will be future stresses, of course (kids, etc.), but after the past week there is no doubt in my mind, and I believe almost no doubt in hers, that engaging in infidelity ever again would certainly kill me. She's seen what this one had done to me, and the results are not pretty. I'm a (barely) walking mess of remorse, guilt and fear about the future.

As far as things you can do, I would say just be there for her through it all. Answer all questions. Hold her, hold her hand. Get her some flowers maybe. Date her again. Ask her out to dinner or to a movie. Get to know her again and learn to love the new her because she will be different from here on out. Let her know you feel guilt and that you won't do it again. I think that knowing that remorse is there and that the FWS won't run to someone else again is half the battle of recovery. I wish my H was as remorseful and sorry as you are.

I think you are doing great.

HINY

Thanks so much HINY. I know it sounds weird, but just your kind words: "I think you are doing great" really, really made my day. I mean it.

I'm trying my very best and I just don't know quite where I stand with her right now -- mostly because I guess SHE probably doesn't know yet -- it's too early. I'm praying for the best.

I will follow your advice (and any other BSs) as best I can. I'm afraid she would consider sending her flowers at the office kind of a downer and tangible reminder of what has happened, but I have been picking some flowers in our yard and putting them out around the house. She won't let me hold her hand yet, but maybe someday soon. I want to be there to comfort her, but she's (understandably) physically shut off to me now.

I've made it clear that I'm waiting for her and will do this on her terms and on her time frame.

I will answer all questions honestly and have told her so, but she has asked none and I think just doesn't want to know. I hope that doesn't get in the way of healing. Is it possible for us to move on to recovery if she chooses to know only the basic details? Everyone here seems to think that only by confronting the most graphic accounts of the A can recovery truly get underway. Any thoughts?

I will "date" her again and have asked her to a going away party for a friend on Saturday night. She reacted as normal, saying "I think we probably need to go, don't you?"

My big concern is that this just hasn't hit her yet, that she wants things to just be back to normal and that there's going to be a day next week or next month when it's all going to come crashing down and she's not going to speak to me anymore. It terrifies me, but I guess it's what I deserve for doing something so stupid.

I know it varies, but would anyone want to weigh in on this? After you found out, how long did it take before reality really set in and you started to decide whether you wanted to stay or go?

I just hope and pray that the new and different her is still willing to be my wife, because I have a tough time imagining going through life without her.

In the meantime, I'll just stay in my holding pattern, go to IC, tell her I'm sorry again and again, try to make amends in any way I (or she) can figure out, and work to demonstrate that nothing like this will ever happen again.

Thanks again HINY. Like I said, you made my day.

LHS,

Glad I could help you. I do think you are doing great. You are reading her and that is what she needs right now. If she doesn't want to be touched, then don't touch her and so on. She will let you know what she needs I am sure. I think just being there for her is the main focus right now.

I am 1 year into recovery and honestly you are so much more receptive to your wife than my H has ever been. So far we have just swept the A under the rug. Although I do want to go to MC, he will not go nor will he talk about it.

I think when she is ready to talk you will know and then you should be willing to give her all the answers that she needs when she needs them. I am glad you are doing well for yourself. This isn't a good time for anyone.

When I found out about my FWH A it had been going on for about 5-6 months after work everynight. They had sex though, which makes it even harder for the BS. When I confronted him he lied for hours, then finally told the truth and I asked him to leave. He came back in the middle of the night and asked for my forgiveness, he returned home for 6 weeks and continued to see her the whole time. I then kicked him out once more. I found MB and worked the Plan A, then plan B. Then I plan HINY'ed and went to kick some OW butt. She ended up ditching him and he returned here and NC was done in Aug of 04. Here we are. Trying to get a life back. But everyone's story is different. She might not be as affected due to the lack of sex in the affair. I know that I would still be upset, but not nearly as I was finding out it was a PA.

I guess if I was you I would try to communicate with her every single day at least once. Maybe say something like "How was your day?" and then "Is there anything you would like to talk about?" I know as a BS that it is hard to open up the wound, it would be easier to have someone pick the scab so to speak first.

Keep reading her. No flowers, no touching. Maybe a nice card? One that just simply says I am sorry, or ILY. Just simple things.

Keep praying and hugs to you for your great accomplishments so far. Telling is half the battle.

HINY

Hello loveherso (love the handle by the way). HINY contacted me and called my attention to your thread so I came on over.

I am a FWS also who was once in your shoes. It's a scary time to be sure. The fear of losing what you love most has an awesome power. I thought it would kill me.

Reading you words, I agree, your doing all you can at this point. The best you can do is keep it up. Buy her surviving an affair, but don't ask her to read it, she may not be ready yet. Leave it out somewhere or let her know you bought it for when she is ready. My W is also one that avoids A reminders. Not a good thing IMO but also someting you can't push.

Words of encouragement - Affairs rarely end marriages.Don't know the exact numbers but they are surprisingly low. I suspect they are even lower when the FWS shows true remorse and works towards recovery with all of his/her being. You seem like that type to me!

We are 10 months past dday. (Short PA with a woman I met online).I did everything in my power to save our M, IC, MC, reading, posting here for advice etc. Man, I can't begin to tell you how good things have been. We are in a wonderful recovery full of love and caring for one another.

Keep posting here brother, learn all you can, ask advice of other BS's as to how you can help your wife heal. They saved my life and my M. Shwo true remorse and understanding of your wife and you will be greated here with open arms and have many supporters both FWS and FBS alike.

Good job man, keep it up!

Not true, some don't want the gruesome details, most do. Let your W choose what she wants to know. FULL honesty is a MUST! That includes omissions.

My W wanted to know, they were the hardest words I have ever spoken. Consider yourself lucky...for now.

Hi,
I'm a FWS too, six months into recovery. It feels like you have a lot of empathy for your W, which unfortunately, isn't always the case around here. Putting her first, treating her with respect and showing remorse are all keys to recovery.

Just know it is going to take time...in fact, a lot of time. This isn't ever going to "go away", and she probably will never "forget it." The best way to recover is for both of you to put this in perspective and deal with it. That may very likely include marriage counseling, so perhaps when all this sinks in for her, she might agree.

What make things a little bit tougher for you (as if you already didn't have enough already, eh?) is that she is carrying a baby. The stress of infidelity is very hard on a body. I know it's truly up to her, but take care to make sure she gets enough to eat, gets enough sleep, gets pre-natal care, etc. After our D-day, we pretty much went to heck in a handbasket physically and didn't pay attention to a lot of stuff we should have (like the kids' schoolwork).

And try and let her decide how much she wants to hear about and deal with, especially while she's pregnant.

I tried to just be there for my H when he wanted to talk. Expect there to be down times and quiet times...just be solid and patient, so she truly gets the sense you are there for the long haul.

I would imagine she is perhaps worried about her future and your future as a family now that the baby is coming. Become very involved in her pregnancy if you'd like to be...go with her to appointments, help decorate the nursery, etc. and try not to spoil her "baby time" with serious A talk. You may inadvertently make her correlate her pregnancy and your A. It's a special time - try and keep it separate from the A, although it may be unavoidable.

It is right you told her. It would otherwise always be a barrier to intimacy with your W. Now you have the chance to heal. You seem very considerate of her and HINY is right, you are doing good so far.

GS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As a BS I agree with others who say that you're on the right track. Consistency over time will be very important on your behalf. It's not only the speaking of the "right words", but the ongoing behaving of the right ways of remorse and restitution.

In my opinion, I think it would be helpful to your wife that she has witnessed your ability to change in the past two years. That doesn't take away the shock, hurt, pain, anger, but she does know that you have the capactiy to change. She's experienced it.

I think that it is very wise of you to let her take the lead in what she wants and needs. Part of the issue of the whole affair was that others (my xWS and the OW) were saying and doing things that had a major impact on me...and I had absolutely no say or control over any of what happened. I feel that letting her have control now over how and when things are handled is essential.

Your wife has the additional responsibility of acting and reacting in a way that addresses the needs of the innocent little one she is carrying. She may well have that in mind in making decisions about what she wants and needs from you right now. Her body/brain chemistry has a direct impact on the baby. It may be that the suppression of feelings..a bit of "denial"..is the best thing she can do to take care of herself and the baby for the time being. It may well have a "price" on the healing of your marriage down the road, but it might be the lowest cost for the time being.

Wanting to know facts about the affair varies from person to person. I have seen BSs who want lots of details and others who want few. Those wanting few details have talked about how they don't need or want any additional thoughts or "pictures" in their mind about the affair. They feel that they need no additional triggers about the affair to have to forgive or forget.

Obviously there are no guaranteed outcomes. You could do everything "right", everything that's recommended, and she still might choose to leave the marriage. But from my viewpoint, you are doing everything within your power at this time to try and save your marriage. I wish you the best.

HINY - Thanks again for the words of support. They mean the world to me right now. I will keep letting her set the pace of things and just do all I can for her during this very tough and sensitive time.

Sorry to hear that your recovery has been difficult and your husband less receptive/remorseful. It seems like I'm overwhelmed with the guilt and it's tough for me to imagine not being. The hurting is so intense that I sometimes wish I could "just get over it" but then I am reminded that the pain is the price I pay for what I did and is nothing in comparison to what my poor BW is going to go through.

I know it varies by BS, but is it really better when there's no sex involved? Really my A boils down to lots of talking on the phone, some dinners and a handful of times when the physical line was crossed and there was kissing (which I usually stopped out of guilt after about 3 min.). I think to my wife, betrayal is betrayal, no matter what took place, but I'd be interested in hearing from other BSs on this.

I still call BW during the day to say "hi." Before d-day, she and I would call/e-mail back and forth several times a day. Now it's just me reaching out to her -- which is understandable and fine. I want to talk to her all the time but I've tried to keep my contact under control so as not to be a pest or have her feel like she's under pressure.

I made her dinner last night (her favorite meal) and things were fairly "normal." I kind of picked around the issue and she just said "I just don't like to talk about it. It makes me uncomfortabble." From here on out I'm not going to mention it at all and let her make the first move -- she's got enough stuff to deal with right now and if there's a price to be paid later for not addressing all this junk, then I'll pay it.

Finally, I obviously feel bad about the A but I'm feeling worse and worse now about telling -- or at least the timing of the confession. Like I said in my first post, my confession just sort of slipped out of my mouth during an emotional moment but, jeez, she's pregnant and is going through a very, very hard time at work and here I am dropping this bomb on her. I know it's too late now, but I'm really, really feeling awful about that now, like I must be a pretty bad person to do something like this and then not shield my wife from it when she's most vulnerable. I feel now like maybe I just shouldn't have said anything, or at least waited until the baby was born -- but that has its downsides for her too. Maybe there's just no good time to confess. Ugh -- you could drive yourself crazy with these questions...

Thanks again for the hugs and words of support. You're great!

LHS,

I can tell you from my point of view that if my FWH didn't have sex with the OW it would make it seem better in my mind. But and A is an A whether it is an EA or a PA. They are really both a betrayal right? You probably told the OW things that you should have been telling your W and that is where the pain comes from in an EA. A PA is more devastating because not only did my H get attached but he "consumated" the R also. I guess they are about the same it just seems worse when sex is involved.

I think you are right on track with your wife. I wouldn't think twice about when you told her, I think you should be glad it just came out. I can't tell you how many people on here sit idle wanting to tell and the words don't come because they are too scared. Atleast it is in the open now and you two can rebuild and start new with no secrets. You have this wonderful little life coming and he/she will take up so much of your life now you will be consumed with emotions of sadness, happiness, loss of time, loss of coupleness, joy. Everything you can think of is going to come out of your hearts soon. Enjoy this time you have left together as a couple. If she doesn't feel comfy talking about it yet, maybe it hasn't sunk in. I do believe it will. If you have to deal with it later I hope it doesn't involve her getting angry and using the baby against you. That is why I think the sooner she can deal with it the better. Maybe when the work stress is better she will pull the A stuff forward in her mind?

Just keep doing what you are doing. There isnt much more that you can do at this point. Just love her and take care of her and that baby <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

HINY

Hi loveshero,

Welcome to MB and I just wanted to say that the step you took to finally be here and post says a lot about you.Yes you made a major,painful mistake but you are here seeking help and for your W that is one of the best things you could do right now.We have heard it all from so many as I am sure you can appreciate lurking here for 2 years but you do sound sincere and I do hope you will keep no contact with the OW forever.That will be the crux of any recovery you have from this day on.

Also,I am glad to hear about your job search.It is critical to not work with or be around the OW.For your W's sanity and comfort,it is non-negotiable.

A few other notes for now.Vulnerability in marriage gets thrown around here from time to time and I just want to suggest that you do continue to take 100% of the blame for what you are both going through now.We have had a few lenghty discussions about "creating an atmosphere" in marriage that could "lead" someone to have an A but it's wrong.This places blame on the "victim", in this case,the BS and they are faultless when it comes to Adultery.It's like saying that a spouse "creates an atmosphere" at home or in marriage to be physically abused,hit,humiliated and even maybe killed.Do you see? Nothing your W did or didn't do affected YOUR DECISION to cheat.Plain and simple.If things were so bad at home,then people have more appropriate,less painful and more ethical and moral ways of handling problems,not just in marriage but in every aspect of life.Adultery/Infidelity is never the answer to anything.YOU failed to protect yourself,W and marriage against this horrible scourge of society and families.So I will not hasten to address anyone who brings that up here and luckily,it's not been mentioned too frequently,if at all,lately.

As a BS,I can personally say that you did the right thing,as painful as it feels right now,by telling your W what happened.A lie like that will erode your marriage,your soul and any trust you ever thought you had in your marriage.But now you have the fallout of the decision you made and I can appreciate how bad that is to deal with.When I found out,I knew right away that I was going to forgive my WH and that we could work on anything together and get through the pain.But what I ultimately could not and would not accept was his continued contact with the homewrecker and so I decided to file for a D.

For some people, having sex with the OP is the worst aspect in an A.For other's it is the emotional "connection" that seems to be the ultimate betrayal,still other's,like me, it was both the emotional and physical betrayal,the combination of two very intimate acts that should only be shared between Husband and Wife,that were soiled and made disgusting and that made me want to end my life at one point.

You have a long road ahead LH and I just want to encourage you to be in this for the long haul because any recovery from Infidelity,if you are blessed enough to have this opportunity, is a major,long,painful process but worth it if you can save your marriage,keep your family intact and not become another D statistic like me and also have a better marriage than ever.It can happen.I hope in time,your W will feel comfortable to exploring that with you.But you are right to be prepared for the worst yet.So many major emotions coming and confusion running through her head at warp speed.Practice patience,read, and have a plan OK? Let us help you on how to handle everything as well,of course,professional help with a PRO marriage counselor.If not both you and your W,just you until she is ready.

Much luck to you!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

O

racerx (love the Speed Racer reference, by the way) -

Thanks for the kind words, and for joining in on this thread. This is going to take some time, and I'm going to need lots of help and advice along the way. Glad I've found all of you and couldn't have anticipated a nicer response. During this dark time, it's comforting to know that there are some wise and experienced folks here to fall back on. Glad to hear your recovery/reconciliation is progressing so well -- it gives me some hope.

You said your wife has a tendency to avoid as well. How long did it take before she was really willing to talk about it? How long before you guys figured out whether she wanted to keep the M together? Like I said, I'm not going to push the BW along at all in the process, but I kind of feel like a convicted man awaiting sentencing -- and I'm worried 24/7 about when it's going to come and what the sentence will be. Such is the nature of this kind of problem, I guess.

Thanks also for the words of encouragement. I'm desperately hoping this A won't end my marriage -- I guess all I can do is try to do everything right from here on out and recognize that even if I do, this might be just too much for poor BW to take.

Hi gentlsoul. Thanks for the words of support.

I know she will never forget the A. I can only hope and pray that she will, one day, forgive. But I recognize we're a long way from there at this point (it's been only a week).

Your comments about the pregnancy are right on as well, and, as I mentioned in a previous post, I feel absolutely devastated that I've put her in this position at such a terrible time. I think telling when I did (although my confession was unplanned and just kind of came out suddenly) was probably a bad thing -- and even if I manage to forgive myself for the A, I don't know what I'll be able to forgive myself for putting her in this spot at this awful time. Too late now, I guess -- ugh. Maybe I'm wrong and it would have been worse later and she would think "we went through this whole pregnancy with this enormous untruth between us!" But right now I don't see any good about telling when I did -- other than getting the truth out, of course.

I'm working to make her as comfortable as possible and trying to care for her as much as she'll allow. She'll let me help to make things better for her (making meals, going to the Dr. together, keeping her well-fed, doing household chores, and she even let me give her a ride to work this a.m.), but one of the things I sense she really needs right now is physical attention (hugs, holding, etc.) and she understandably won't accept that from me. That is one thing that's really killing me, and I hope sometime soon she'll see fit to let me hold or hug her again -- not because I need it, but because she does.

I am desperate to try and make certain that when she thinks about her first pregnancy, that the first thing she remembers is NOT the A revelation. I don't know. That may be too late to prevent, but I'm hoping that years from now, the A ends up being a footnote and the memories first and foremost in her mind are help and kindness during the pregnancy, and of course the child that comes from it.

Thanks for the supportive words.

- loveherso

loveherso I just want to wish you luck with recovery you are doing the right thing.

Atleast your not like this guy that I have been debating with. I'm moctar and the guy I'm debating with is 4u2cum. He thinks that withholding sex is worse than cheating.

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=29812&start=30

Brief summary of our recovery: I was away with friends backpacking on dday. My W was tipped off by a mutual aquintance and confronted OW via phone. OW confessed (and fabricated some stuff in an effort to cause W and I to divorce). My W had 3 days to act before I would come home. She changed the locks, changed the alarm code, emptied my personal belongings into the garage and vacted the house for my return. She called a lawyer to file for D. Fortunately the lawyer was the good kind and he insisted she wait to do anything, knowing an A rarely ends a M. When I got back in cell range there were 7 VM's from OW warning me my W knew everything.

I called home - no answer. Called her cell, she picked up, in a calm tone explained she knew about OW. Said she wanted D and asked me to leave the house or she wasn't coming home. Not wanting my kids away frorm thier home I agreed, packed my RV and left.

This is when the begging and groveling began (it wasn't pretty) she refused MC and any thought of forgivness. Then I found this place. I started asking questions. Veterans such as Octobergirl, Believer (who posted to you above) among others came to my rescue and coached me on how to save my M and eased my fears when I was hitting a brick wall with my W. My W was pissed to say the least - I sent flowers, she refused them (that call from the florist was embarressing)
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />. I called she let the machine answer. She of course let me see my children but avoided contact with me.

I showed remorse and willingness to change, soon she cracked and agreed to MC with Steve Harley with no guarantees. Steve reassured her our M could be better than ever and she trusted him. I also got myself in IC (as SH suggested) to demonstate change (not just words, they are cheap) In about 2 weeks she got on board fully and commited to reconsiliation. After 2 months out of the house I came home well ahead of projected schedule.

There was a period of full honesty about my A that lasted for a few days but then she let it go having all the answers and confirming they matched the dates and times she had compiled. Since then she has avoided reminders, one of those reminders is this forum. She rarely visits. She hates A talk. This is her way of dealing with it. I fear she burys her feelings, that may not be good, but I also think it's wrong to push her into my views of how it should be handled.

You can't wory about when she's going to "sentence you" I understand you want it over with but you just have to wait her out. Honestly, it may never come. Just be good to her, demonstate change. Be patient and understanding for the pain we have caused our wifes. Feel lucky things are not worse.

As I said before, we are in bliss these days (aside from some personal demons I'm facing). A few weeks ago we renewed our wedding vows on our 7th anniversary (details can be read on the anniversary ideas forum here). It was a surprise for her and restored much of what was lost.

Hang in there my friend, your doing fine, your description of how your W is handling it is VERY encouraging. You have no worries as long as you stick to pulling the recovery cart for her.

Sorry, I guess that wasn't so brief. I'll keep checking back with you here.

heartmending -

Thanks for the help and affirmation that I'm finally doing the right thing.

I will be as consistent as possible and continue working just as before d-day to improve my side of the relationship. As I mentioned before, I've really worked on it over the past two years since the end of the A, and although I haven't been perfect in my efforts, things really have improved substantially and she has noticed. I understand very, very well that it will be actions, not words, that send her the message that I'm serious about rebuilding trust, sticking with our M at all costs and improving it over a lifetime.

She is in total control right now and that's the way it should be. If she doesn't want to deal with it until she's further along in the pregnancy or after the baby's born, that's her decision. I worry about the consequences of delay, however. I won't press the issue with her but do you have any thoughts about the effects it might have to wait to deal with it? It's already more than two years ago and I have pretty much become a different and better person. Everyone here says it should be dealt with ASAP, but is it possible that further delay, and life events (like having a child) might actually dull and dampen the pain and make recovery easier over the long-term? Thoughts?

Thanks again.

- lovherso

HINY -

Thanks again for the perspective. I'm sure I'll be coming back to you for help as things progress. Still feeling crummy about the timing of the confession, but I guess there's nothing to be done about it now. Speaking of the baby, despite all this, I'm really so excited and can't wait to be a dad for the first time! I'll keep you posted on progress.


Octobergirl -

Thanks for your words. When you say that the step I took (to confess) says a lot about me, do you think that it really helps that much in rebuilding trust? It seems to me sometimes that having an A is like minus 1000 points and being willing to confess is like plus 5 points -- so no matter what, by telling you still end up 995 points behind, if that makes sense. I will keep no contact -- don't worry about that. I have no feelings for the OW and am absolutley committed to NC. I'm with you completely on the who's responsible for the A question, as you may have seen in my post above -- I am responsible, period. I'm in this for the long haul, like you said, and if I seem impatient it's just because I'm an action-oriented guy and I'm grasping at straws to try and find next steps -- but everyone seems to be telling me that the only next step is to wait for her, which I will do. You say to "have a plan," but I don't quite know where to begin in developing that until I get some additional indication from her...


racerx -

Thanks for the full story on your sitch, man. You've been through a lot. My wife didn't react nearly so negatively as yours, but I'm concerned that it's going to get worse as time goes by and the full realization hits her. Does phone counseling with Harley really work that well? I would suggest it but I think she'd think it was "weird" to do something like that over the phone. Does he still do personal counseling if one can get to Minneapolis? Also, is my description of how she's handling it really that encouraging? I'm worried she's just in deep, deep denial and that this thing could explode at any moment. I've asked if there's anything I can do to "pull the recovery cart" and she says no.

LHS,

Well there is your answer then. Try not to smother her. I am sure she will let you know when she is ready to talk, touch and recover. I think she is doing this her way right now.

I am so excited for you. I have two kids. The birthing thing is so awesome. Well unless you are the one pushing it out....LOL! I forgot to say congrats!

You might also want to post over on the recovery board that is where me and RacerX and most in recovery hang out these days. I post on both boards if something I see catches my eye, but mostly the recovery board.

Hang in there, I think you have got it (which most FWS don't) and are doing great under the circumstances.

HINY

Actually works quite well, I thought it odd at first too. It's nice because it's easy to fit into your schedule (no drive time etc.) Another good thing is that honesty is MUCH easier via phone.


Not sure



Yes, (i.e. you not out on your butt...) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



You could be right, but I can;t see her breaking to the point the M is over. Things my get bumpy but just hang on, be patient, loving and understanding and I think you'll be OK.




Heres where your missing something. You ARE pulling the recovery cart my man. Your HERE! your learning, your doing all you can. Thats pulling the cart! Most of these BS's would KILL to have a FWS with your attitude!

HINY asked me to come to your thread because she saw something different in you. I see it too. Keep it up!

Hi LH,

I just wanted to post a "quick" repsonse for now since I just got home from work(zzzz)but I hope to be back more this weekend.

When I suggested that coming here said a lot about you I meant in the sense that you are remorseful and willing to try and make ammends.I have only seen a very small handful of WH's come here,and be the first in the marriage,to try to get help for what they did.My WH still thinks this site is a waste of time and that everyone here has it all wrong even though HE is the one that introduced me to it.He never took advantage of it either.

Your W feels you to be untrustworthy and you are.You have to start from ground zero all over again to rebuild that trust and yes the A did cost you major points in that department and many other's.Your previous marriage was shattered and it's dead.You are starting anew.If your W is anything like me and many other BW's here,she will be watching your every move to see if you are being honest about no contact,about your desire to be with her,help her with the pregnancy,being a Husband and soon to be Father,everything.Every step you take will be an act of either care or hurt.It may feel suffocating at times as you wait to see how she handles all this and what her emotions are but if you know what to expect,it may make it easier to deal with.

To use me as an example again,I watched my WH's moves all day every day post DDAY.I was basically waiting for him to betray me again since I didn't trust him.Despite his false attempts at recovering with me,he did in fact betray me again and again with lies and hurtful behavior not to mention repeated behavior that was present prior to the affair(i.e.long hours spent on the computer,withdrawal and sullen mood,lack of attention,etc).

We can still help you with a plan even though your W is confused and hurt right now.There are things to be doing that are helpful,some of which have already been mentioned.This will be a true test of your ability to weather the storm in ways you never thought you could.This isn't something you can hurry up and fix with your action oriented sensibilities unfortunately.You will either make it the priority to wait with patience no matter what you are feeling if your W,unborn child,marriage and family mean the most to you or you will crumble under your own weakness and bail.You will have to do a lot of introspection during this whole process but that could actually be very rewarding.

Will be back later on.Keep taking the advice of these wise folks here.Hang in there.

O

Hi HINY, racerx, octobergirl -

Thanks guys.

I am really trying not to smother, but it's hard. About once or twice a day I offer "anything I can do or say to help" and every time she says "no." Should I stop even offering and just continue to do nice things for her (actions rather than words)? Is even my offer just a painful reminder and do you think she's considering it annoying or should I keep it up? I tell that I wish I could just take away all the pain, and she just says "I know, but you can't."

I would post over on recovery but I want to wait until there's kind of a "verdict" laid down by her and we actually begin recovering -- I hope. Right now I feel like we're at a total standstill, and while I understand this must be done on her time frame, I'm just really scared -- sorry. Should I suggest Harvey counseling or just wait for her to say something? I've suggested that she maybe do IC, we do MC or she even talk to a friend about this, but she has said "no" thus far on the counseling and -- as far as talking to friends goes -- she has said that this is "our private problem." I'm trying to follow all of octobergirl's advice about rebuilding trust and demonstrating my feelings, but I'm getting little response from her thus far. I'll just keep working at it. I can say, though, that every action I've taken has been one of "care" and not of "hurt," as octobergirl puts it.

Yesterday was OK. Talked to her a few times throughout the day on the phone. She was civil but it was obviously not our usual phone banter, though she did respond "me too" when I told her I loved her. At the end of the work day, when I asked how she was doing, she said she was feeling "overwhelmed" by "things at home," meaning the A, which is one of the few times she's actually brought it up.

I went to class (grad school) and when I came home she had made supper -- usually I cook but when I have class she makes dinner so we can eat soon after I get home, which is usually after 9 p.m. on class nights. Everything was fairly "normal," except for the obvious (less talking, no happy talk or reviews of our days, and little physical greeting).

She did let me give her a hug, though, which felt so good. I never thought I simple hug could bring me so much joy. I finally understand what you mean when you guys say you have to rebuild from scratch.

We ate dinner and sat around watching some TV -- our usual routine. I told her that I loved her and she said "I know. I love you too but I'm just having a hard time saying it these days." I said "I understand," and "I'm so sorry."

I cleaned up the kitchen and we went upstairs to bed. As she was clicking off the light she said "Now's the time, when I go to bed, when it really hits me. I think about our trip last year (we took an extended vacation overseas) and think about what a good time we had, and I didn't even know the truth (this was during the time post-A, but before she knew). I just am trying to figure out how to deal with this. I want to just ignore it but I'm afraid if I bury it it will come out later and be bad." I told her again how sorry I was and that I would do anything to try and make things right.

This morning was a kind of a hard one. She let me give her a ride to work, but we hardly talked at all. So I'm sitting here now, waiting (tick-tock), trying not to call her and bug/remind her, and wondering what the weekend will hold -- when she actually gets a chance to sit and think about this. She's great at keeping herself preoccupied with work or projects or other stuff, and I'm very scared that once she really sits down and thinks about this it's going to be bad...

I'm just so scared. I know I deserve it, but I'm just so scared.

I'm not going to crumble, however. I am in this for the long haul and am determined to keep the M together no matter what it requires of me.

I love her so much.

loveherso,

you sound very sincere and i truly think that you two are going to be okay. this is extremely difficult for your wife (and for you, too), especially since she's also pregnant with her first child. the reason that i think that you are going to be okay is because you seem truly remorseful and you recognize and realize your mistake and the role that you played in the breakdown of your marriage.

i wouldn't push too much on the marriage counseling or individual counseling issue at this time anymore, but let her know that you are committed to doing whatever it takes to make your marriage a better place and that if she wishes to go to mc that you will be available whenever that is. leave it at that.

i've been reading your posts and they brings tears to my eyes. i'm basically in the same boat, but i'm the bw. my husband is remorseful, but he's reluctant to go to counseling and he would rather forget about the issue and move on with life. you and your wife are in a better position.

when she's read for counseling, i would definitely suggest phone counseling with dr. harley. i've heard so many good things about him. another good place that you may check out, especially for individual counseling if you wife is interested is the women's center in vienna, va.

take care and good luck to you!

Thanks dusa -

I so appreciate your encouragement and belief that we are "going to be okay." I'm clinging to any thread of hope right now. From what BW is saying, I guess there's some justification for optimism, but it seems so early on I just don't know what to think. Like I said, I'm worried once the full weight of this hits her that it's going to get bad.

She told me she's not looking forward to the weekend -- I think because we don't have much going on over the next couple of days and this will finally have chance to sink in. We've been pretty busy since d-day.

I won't push on counseling and will let her set the pace. She just seems so (understandably) confused and lost right now that I want to help by offering suggestions. Guess I have to fight that impulse, let her be in control, and make it totally clear that I'm here for her and will do whatever it takes to help us work through this.

Like I said, I'm so scared. I love her so much and wouldn't know what to do without her...

Hi again LH,

This is hard stuff isn't it? And you are only a week+ on this new road.It gives endurance a whole new meaning when it comes to any kind of a recovery post A and we still aren't sure what your W is going to do in the near future.She is still processing or trying to,much of what happened and if I may recommend,educate yourself about PTSD(Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).Many of the symptoms that people have are just what we BS's have.It's part of what makes dealing with this so long,difficult and convoluted.In general,I am a highly organized,efficient person in my life and workplace.But when I found out about my WH's adultery,I was,from then on,a "scatterbrain".I could not remember basic things,I could barely function and I forgot,all the time,basic things.It was truly unnerving and upsetting to be this way.BUT,that was AFTER the intial trauma of finding out.In the first couple of weeks LH,it took all I had just to go on living.Can you understand that? Being in so much pain that it's seems more comforting to end your life rather than go on? The only thing that did keep me going was my two children.Literally.I could not bare to see them be hurt by my being gone.That is all that saved me in the beginning,that is how bad it can be.Then,when I mustered all the strength I could, I made it to the Doctor and got on some AD's,that helped a lot too, eventually.

See,your WW is in the worst part of it right now.She cannot even begin to think about long term,whether to stay or go,what end is up.She is struggling,in a major way.This is why it is critical for you to be as patient as you ever could be NOW.Because for those WS's that are ready to jump in a get cracking at making the marriage better and getting into counseling and "moving on",your WW is still in a sea of pain and not knowing what to do most of the time.

TIME,is what will help her get into action more but it cannot happen much,if at all,right now.Just being there for her,*repeating* sentiments and actions that are caring even though it may not seem to be helping,are helping.It is part of showing your W that you do mean to be there for her.It's also being strong enough,even when you are struggling yourself with your own emotions and guilt,to endure her rollercoaster emotional behavior until things settle down.

I can sense your readiness to get going and work on things(i.e tick tock) but you have to accept that this is going to go at a snails pace.Minute by minute,hour by hour,day by day.That's just how it is to be a betrayed spouse.Walking through the shattered glass that was her world and trying to find a way back into life again.It's a herculean task.

Keep doing what you are,that is the plan ok? Keep:

-offering to help.Take the burden of household duties off her as much as you can

-showing her signs that you love her without asking(i.e. cooking,helping clean up the house,doing laundry,flowers on the table,etc)

-educating yourself on what went wrong.Leave books lying around she may be curious to pick up and read at some point.Take a look at our MB bookstore for ideas.

-showing her affection but not smothering since she will feel awkward about that and you touching her but hand holding and kisses on the cheek may be good starters.Hugs too if she's receptive.

-show her that YOU are working on yourself,if nothing else.Let her know you are going to see a counselor to help educate yourself and try to make things better.Show her by actions you are trying.She will take notice even if she doesn't seem to be.

-being available,BE AROUND.Now,this is actually a personal decision and may not apply to your W but for ME,it was critical that my WH be around and in view for much of his days.Afterall,I was so worried he was out and sneaking around trying to call or e-mail the homewrecker or secretly see her.I was SO WORRIED,all day that I would literally shake.In the first few weeks/months it's important for her to see you home,not on the phone with some stranger or e-mailing secretly.You should be one open book.

Does all this make sense?

O

P.S. It is very important that your W get help too and that she one day see that you BOTH need to work on this marriage ok? Right now we are working with you but make no mistake,a marriage takes TWO and one day she will need to be a part of it's salvation as well.She can't avoid this forever.One day she will have to deeply address everything if there is to be a chance.We all recognize this so don't think we don't expect it of her too but she just isn't ready yet.

Boy what a flashback....I sure remember wanting to push our recovery into overdrive, asking to come home, asking for her to commit 100% to recovery etc. I remember people here telling me to take things at her pace so I understand how hard this is.

My biggest mistake was asking to come home. I was miserable living in my RV on the side of my mothers house, hispanic music thumping by 8 am and going till midnight. My moms neighbors TV going ALL night over the fence and about 10 feet away from his bedroom window and he was apparently hard of hearing so it was turned way up. My back hurting from sleeping on a bed that's fine for a week but after that it has it's limitations....LOL Not to mentionion the apparent chicken farm he had with a minimum of 3 roosters, they started at the slightest hint of daylight.

Steve Harley and people here warning against getting my own apartment...oh no, that would be a sign of noncommitment from me and seen as me moving on with my life.

Steve reapeatedly told me to quit trying to convince her recovery would be easier if I came home. It took almost 2 months for that to sink in before I complied. Funny thing is, when I finally did stop, I was home literally within a week.


I'm not saying your making the same mistake, actually I think your doing just fine. I'm only giving you an example of how patience can work in your (and your W's) favor.

OG, is giving excellent advice from a BW's view. My W also wanted me in view at all times. I suspect that even though your A ended 2 years ago it's still very fresh for her and makes zero difference.

As far as counseling with Steve Harley (Not to be confused with his father *DR* Harley) I think it's a great idea. I think the biggest thing he did for me was coaching me on how to help my wife. He would talk to her and then me. My W is like yours, I would ask what I can do, she would say "nothing, I just need time". Steve would talk to her and then make a plan for me. I wouldn't push your W but I may say - Honey, I'm going to seek counseling from Steve Harley in an effort to see if he can help me learn how to help us heal and also what I can do myself to help you as best I can, would you like to talk with him also?

These are a few of the things he suggested for me, they may not work for your W but I doubt they could hurt. These are in order I believe.

1. Take responsibilty for my A. Never tell her it was the result of her not meeting one of my needs.

2. Get myself in IC to demonstate change.

3. When she asks details of my A (he knew it was coming) be 100% honest. He informed me she knew more than I suspected and any descrepency could be a deal breaker.

*I met OW online and most correspandonce was via IM and email so the following applied*

4. Change my cell number, disconnect car phone, change my email accounts (incl changing passwords to old account to a series of random numbers that I couldn't possibly remember).

5. Make NEW phone records and email accounts open and available to her including giving her all passwords.

6. Don't leave her sight (we work together). Give up hanging out with friends etc. without her. If your going to be late, be sure to call. Also, I love you calls when gone work wonders. No A talk, Just I love you, I'm thinking of you stuff.

7. Sell my SUV (OW had been in it). This was the one thing I did not do. I ran it for a month in the paper (my wife set the price) and it didn't sell. At the end of that month my W asked me to give her more time to get over it before I sold it (she loved the vehicle too). We covered it for a couple of months and now she drives it more than I do. I think my willingness to sell it was what was important to my W.

8. As OG said, Do as many household chores as you possibly can. However, one thing SH warned me of - make sure she understands that you taking that burden all on yourself is temporary, otherwise when she begins to heal and no longer needs this done for her and you return to your normal chores it could be seen as returning to your old ways.

*I never really got this one. HELP me on #9 OG (or other BS)....LOL* I would especially like to hear if you disagree.....do you like your H to grovel and kiss your feet? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

9. Be strong! I was a basket case, I showed remorse by groveling, crying, begging forgiveness. SH told me this isn't appealing, even to a BS. I feel we must show these things but theres a line somewhere, unfortunatley I can't begin to tell you where it is. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

One thing I thought of on my own for your situation would be to really get into the coming baby. If the babys room could use anything do it for her. Wallpaper, painting etc. If it doesn't need it, do it anyway...LOL (unless she already did it). Show excitment for the miracle thats coming.


I hope this helps LHS. I really feel for you, I know how scary the uncertainty is.

p.s. I just re-read your first post. This A didn't go ALL the way. Much easier to get over IMO. I know some may disagree but thats my opinion. Another plus in my book.

Racer X

You've come a looooong way baby!

Good job!

Thanks Pep...You just made my day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You were a basketcase ... I remember <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ... and now .... AMAZING RECOVERY

you 'da MAN!

Yes Pep, you were there for me too, I will never forget it.

You've always told it like it is so your kind words mean the world to me.

I still have lots to learn but I'm getting there I think.

Thanks october -

You tell it like it is, and I appreciate that.

This IS hard stuff. Really hard stuff. But not nearly as hard as it must be for BW. As much pain as I'm in right now, I can't begin to fathom what she is -- or is about to -- go through. I don't know where I'm going to find it, but I WILL have the endurance to get through this and do all I can to save the M no matter what it costs me.

She is still processing, but each day I get small glimmers of hope. She still tells me that "we will make it" and "we will get through this." These are encouraging, but I'm not taking anything for granted and I realize that she might have moments in coming months when she thinks that we actually won't get through. I dread those days, but am steeling myself for that time. I hope that I can fall back on you guys for help and advice on how to try and turn things around when and if those days arrive.

I need to be stronger for her -- I'm just so scared right now I can't see straight and I have to admit that by repeatedly asking her how she is and what I can do to help, I'm probably inadvertently pressuring her to give a "verdict" before she's ready. I need to be more patient and I will.

I will repeat sentiments and actions that are caring no matter what. She could scream at me angrily all day long (not really her style) and I'll just keep up the work. I'm ready to take whatever she dishes out (I deserve it, don't I) and keep working to help her.

I'll keep going to IC, although I have concerns about whether she thinks that this is me proving that I'm willing to change and figure myself out for her or if she just thinks it proves that I'm kind of a nut (the evidence -- my A -- certainly points in that direction).

The big challenge I face right now is this: I know she needs me to be strong for her in order to get through this, but every time I think about a future without her I get so scared and weak I can barely stand, which makes me even more scared that I will lose her, which makes me weaker, and so on, and so on, and so on. It's a loop I'm going to have to break out of, and quick.

I will be around for her at all times, although in our relationship I tend to be the clingy one and she tends to be the more independent one. I think she has no worries about me contacting OW and doesn't seem all that concerned about it. She knows what a guilt-obsessed person I am and can see the remorse every time she looks at me and I think has little doubt that this A was long over, years ago and there could be no relapse.

Thanks again, O.

- love her so

Racer,

You are one of our shining examples of what it means to recover.I feel proud to have been there in the beginning for you with the other's in helping because I knew that you were sincere as I feel LH is right now.I do have hope for him and his W.By the way,#9,I feel it is very important for BS and WS to show and discuss how they feel.It has to be out in the open but I do agree with not groveling or appearing too needy,as IF we could manipulate our emotions so much! And...

LH,

There was a point when I was SO low that I was sobbing and asking my WH not to leave me.Well,that definitely sent him the other way.Boy was that hard to endure.When I needed him most he abandoned me.Ugh.Sad memories.If you can find a balance with your feelings,do let them out ok? You did make a choice to be unfaithful(sans actual sex) but you are hurting too I know and it will not help you to keep your feelings bottled up.Get it out someway, somehow.Do talk to your wife gradually about how you are feeling.Don't be too heavy though,not yet.That will come later in the deep processes of recovery.

Also,if I may add,you repeated how scared you are.Face it head on, all the dark and dirty corners.Face your fear,examine it,learn from it.The biggest fear I had in the beginning was thinking of a life without my best friend,my husband, whom I chose to grow old with.It was SO hard to think about that.I nearly came apart thinking of being on my own without him in my life.But now,I feel SO differently.Point is,once you face your fears head on,they have less power over you.

*What exactly about a future with your W scares you? Examine it,discuss it here with us.Let's break that loop by talking it out.

Also,I agree with Racer.Your A may have ended long ago BUT your W's world exploded only this past week with your admission.And,she also has to contend with the idea that you have kept this secret all this time.So she will not only feel betrayed about the A but also that she was living a lie.Very hard stuff.I was very independent too in my life and marriage but when this all happened,I never needed my WH more.To comfort me,reassure me and tell me we could get through this,etc.(never happened) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We will always be here.Coming and going.There are many here who are so wonderful and have been at this a long time.Stay on GQII for awhile.This gets the most traffic and you need the input right now.And you have two great aspects that run in your favor: the A is long over with,which many here would love to see happen with their own situations,and you are a remorseful (F)WH.Have hope.I do and I don't say that often. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

O

Thanks Racer -

I've made the decision to back off on any pushing whatsoever -- not that I really have been but I'm going to have to be more careful from here on out. From now on it's just going to be repeated daily assurances of "I love you, am here for you, and will be no matter what." I am not going to ask if there's anything specific I can do unless she brings up the A/recovery. Otherwise I think she perceives my "is there anything I can do?" question as a call for her to take action and come up with something for me to do. That's bad, and it's putting pressure on her.

Patience, patience, patience.

As far as the Harley checklist you gave me, here's where I am right now:

1. I've taken full, 100 percent responsiblity for the A and will place no blame on her.

2. Am in IC (though am having trouble getting an appointment for next week).

3. I will be 100 percent honest about A details she asks(not sure what she'll ask or when those questions will come -- I suspect she won't want a ton of detail, but who knows -- there really isn't a whole lot of detail anyway because things never went very far).

4. Never e-mailed with OW. Only cell # I ever called her from is dead and long gone.

5. Will give her all phone records and e-mail addresses/passords if she asks.

6. I will stay in her sight as long as she can take it. To be honest, I can hardly bear having her out of my sight but have kept my mouth shut because I don't want to smother. We work across town from each other, but I typically call and e-mail at least 5-10 times a day and am almost always at my desk if she decides to call me (she hasn't since d-day). I don't hang out with any friends without her, and haven't really since the A ended. I always have called when I'm late.

7. Only car where anything ever happened (just a single kiss) is already long gone (donated to charity. OW has been in our current car, but it's a lease and may be tough to get rid of. I will offer to find a solution with the dealership if it ever becomes an issue.

8. Will step up the household chores -- and as far as temporary goes, I'm willing to do all of them for the rest of my life if that's what it's going to take to keep us together.

9. Am trying to be strong but this is the toughest part. Trying not to grovel, trying not to cry whenever the issue is brought up. Am trying to be matter of fact and strong, saying "I am here for you and I always will be. You're in charge, and I'll do all the work and whatever it takes to help us get through this." It's a fine line to walk but I'm trying my best. Doesn't help right now that the whole future's up in the air -- this issue plus baby on the way plus active job search underway -- but I'm working on this part the hardest.

Thanks again, racer.

Thanks OG! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> and you were right, I was sincere. I still fight the fight daily. I think she's glad she kept my sorry a$$. LOL
I know I've said it before, but I'll say it again - Thanks for being there when I was in LHS' shoes. I feel especially grateful when I relive it all reading his posts.

LHS, deep breathes, try to relax as much for your own sanity as for her. Easier said than done I know.

One more thing LHS, heres a link to my first thread, You'll see OG and Beleiver (among others) there to help me. I can't believe that was almost a year ago. read the fear in me and know that all came out well. Hope it helps.

Edited to add: My handle then was "SleeplessInSF" I changed it when I started sleeping well again. The forum automatically changes my handle to RacerX but the body of the posts of course don;t change and most are addressed to sleepless or SISF.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1177580

I can't add much here. You are getting some great feedback and advice LHS.

I just wanted to add a couple of thoughts from my own experience.

First, I felt sooooo pressured by my husband to say I was going to stay or not that it just added to the unbelievable stress of just coping with the fact that he had cheated. I finally came to a decision to simply not decide for 6 months either way. Not what he wanted to hear but I could NOT simply throw myself back into a relationship that he had already chosen to stray from. Seemed irrelevant at the time that he came back and wanted me.

And really deciding to just put off the decision took off an enormous amount of stress, made it easier TO work on maybe being married again. Before that I just was confused. So if you can just realize that she may not be able to make a firm decision to stay or go for a time and still love her and keep doing what you are doing, you may take off some of her stress and actually make it easier for her to deal.

I think you are in good hands here. And for what it's worth, I think you have excellent chances for recovery.

Take care

Tiggy

LHS,

Couple of things I forgot to mention duh! There are some great books you should read. Surviving an Affair, His needs/her needs, and torn asunder. They are all great books and will help you and her get through this.

Hugs.

HINY

Hi all -

loveherso here -- back from the weekend.

When I last posted, I mentioned that in my conversations with BW on Friday afternoon at work, she seemed pensive, uneasy and kind of dreading the weekend (first one spent alone together since d-day, which was now about 10 days ago). I also sensed that she was maybe starting to get a little mad about the whole thing, which I've been expecting for a while (maybe she's leaving the denial phase and moving into anger? As much as I dread the anger, it at least indicates some forward progress).

So I picked her up from work Friday, and she was clearly pretty unhappy, so I kept my mouth shut. She kept saying "I just don't know how this happened." And I kept responding "I know. I don't completely understand it either" and telling her that it was my fault, that I screwed up, and that I loved her and would do anything to work to fix it.

About 10 mintues into the drive, she finally said "well, how DID this happen?" So, over the course of about 10 minutes in the car, I gave her the full overview of the A -- how it started, what happened, how it ended, etc. I didn't give tons of details, and she asked no follow-up questions.

After we arrived home, we spent another 15 minutes sitting in the car just talking some more and giving the A some context (it was more than 2 years ago). She asked what I was thinking at the time -- was it her fault, etc. I told her that it was all my fault and I wouldn't let her take any responsibility for my actions in having the A -- that it was my selfishness and bad decisions. To help her understand, I DID, however, end up telling her some of the things that had gone through my head during the A -- how I had low self-esteem, often felt ignored (by her) at home, and was really stressed at work. In the next breath, though, I made it clear that these were just things going through my head at the time, and that my resentments toward her then had no justification in reality -- the A was completely my fault. She kept saying SHE was sorry for making me feel the way I did -- and I told her that she ABSOLUTELY should never feel sorry about anything related to this -- it is my fault.

This leads to a question for all you A vets out there. How do you be completely honest in telling BS the things you were thinking at the time of the A about what you thought were their deficiencies then but still take full repsonsibility? It's a challenge. I'm trying to be honest, but not have her feel like this is her fault in any way.

Anyway, we went inside and sat and talked some more in the kitchen. I told her I was scared about the future, and she again reassured that she wasn't going to throw away "a good marriage, and our families (we're close with our in-laws), for some minor indiscretions." I told her it didn't feel like they were minor, and she said she thought they were (but I suspect she's still mulling that point).

We then walked over to a restaurant in our neighborhood (she let me hold her hand on the way -- I was SO happy -- first time since d-day) and had a great supper where we talked just like usual. It was my first truly "normal"-feeling time with her in a while, and it felt GREAT! It was as if alot of tension had been released in talking about the A, and I think it made us both feel much better to have things more out on the table.

After supper she kind of crashed (this pregnancy thing understandably makes people tired), so we walked home, watched a little TV and went to bed.

On Saturday, we went for brunch and had more or less normal conversation, then went shopping at some of her favorite stores. We got home and she slept (tired, like I said), and I did all kinds of housework that she's wanted done.

Which leads to my next question. Does me running around doing a bunch more work just remind her of the A and make her feel like I'm just motivated by guilt? I'm sincere in wanting to reduce her burdens. I'm happy to do this stuff and (like I said) will do it for the rest of my life to make it up to her, but it just seems kind of awkward -- like doing all the laundry and cleaning out the fireplace can make up for what I did (it can't, obviously).

Saturday night went to a friend's party. Again, pretty normal. Still no physical contact allowed (except for a hug or forehead kiss here and there -- oh, and holding hands on Friday).

Sunday we went to church and then I made her breakfast as usual. She rested for a while and I did housework and grocery shopping. Sunday night we went to a neighbor's party and had a lot of fun. When we got home, she gave me a hug and said "I love you more than anything in the world. We need each other. We wouldn't do so well without each other." I can't describe how great it felt to hear those words and be able to touch her -- not so much for my sake, but because (as I've mentioned before) I think she needs some physical attention and she hasn't been able to accept it from me for obvious reasons.

So, that's where things stand right now. I know it all sounds pretty promising but I'm trying not to get my hopes up too far in case we start a backslide here. We still haven't really talked about the A much, and I'm wondering if that's a prerequisite for getting through this or if we can just get clear on what happened, accept that the past is the past, and start rebuilding trust. Up to her, I guess.

Any thoughts on how things are going would be appreciated. Is she still in denial and wanting to have things be just like before, or have we started forward into recovery?

Thanks, and hope everybody had a good weekend -

loveherso

IMO your ahead of the game. I'll try to adress some of the stuff in more detail when I have more time later today.

OG -

I'm trying to be strong for her, as I have mentioned in the past, but it's hard. I am not begging and pleading with her, but it's tough for me to talk about the A without the remorse tears flowing. She, on the other hand, hasn't cried all that much (at least not in front of me). I know weakness is unattractive and am trying to avoid it, but this is hard stuff to deal with, especially coupled with a bad time at work right now, a job search, grad school finals, pregnancy, etc. I'm not complaining, but I'm finding that being strong -- usually something I am able to pull off even in the most diffiult circumstances -- is tough right now. Everyone here is absolutley right that As have the ability to shake the very core of your being. I'm just going to have to suck it up and deal, because no matter how bad it gets on my end, I'm sure it's worse for her. Strength, strength, strength. That's my motto from here on out.

As far as bottling up my feelings goes, I am trying to get in this week again with an IC, and I have been sharing some of my thoughts with BW. Problem is, when I show any signs of neediness, she basically focuses on that and helping me get better -- rather than herself. I love to talk with her and share my feelings, but not at the expense of her ignoring her own needs right now, so I'm going to have to keep some stuff bottled up for now until grad school's done and I have a new job and I can actually BE stronger. That's the way it goes. Otherwise, she's going to look back on this whole thing one day and say "hey, wait a minute, that whiny jerk cheated and we spent all our time dealing with the problems it brought HIM instead of ME."

To answer your question about my fears, I guess I fear going through life without the woman who knows me better than anyone else on Earth. The woman I've known for 14 years and been married to for seven. The soon-to-be mother of my first and only child. The alone-ness is scary enough, but I can't imagine not being able to turn to her every day and ask her opinion on something or just hear her voice. We've built our worlds around each other, and I can't bear to think of that coming apart because of me and my stupidity. That's just the beginning -- we can plumb the depths of my fears more deeply in the future -- there's certainly plenty there.

Finally, thanks especially for the "Have hope. I do and I don't say that often." I'm looking for any assurances right now because I THINK things are going OK (per my post earlier today) but I'm really afraid of any backslide.

You know me, impatient for any positive signs...

LHS,

You've been given some great advice by Racer-X and OG. I read your story because it is so similar to mine (almost exact), except my husband is not as eager to work through our problems like you are. His way of dealing with our problems is to ignore them, pretend like it never happened because it is in the past now.

You seem a very nice person and a good husband and I think that your wife knows that. Like OG mentiond in one of her previous emails to you, this A happened two years ago, but to your BW, it happened basically a few days ago. She's so new to this that she is likely going to feel many different emotions. This will be difficult for you to experience too since you may go from euphoria to utter devastation. But, it will pass. I think that you two stand a very good chance of complete recovery. It will take time and it will require a lot of patience, especially from you, but I have a good feeling when I read your posts. You seem caring and sincere and you ask all the right questions. I'm not very good at giving advice; I'll leave that to the more seasoned pro's here, but I wanted to encourage you to keep going. You seem to love your wife very much and you will be a good father.

Learn from what happened in the past and move on to a bigger and better life. You will have a beautiful little family soon and you will feel so blessed.

Your story brings tears to my eyes and I wish my husband could read your posts and learn from them. You are doing the right thing by addressing all of your issues whether they are individual or marital.

Good luck!

Good job





At some point you must let her understand that she had a part in letting the M deteriorate. Not to lay blame, but rather to fix it or make sure it never deterioaates again. Your right, she is in NO WAY responsible for your A, but a weak M usually takes 2.


I'm not a Vet but see my above answer.


NEVER argue this point again, your shooting yourself in the foot! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


again, ahead of the game.



Watch her mood when you work. Look for a pattern.





And your worried why? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



My wife wanted me to remind you (she read your thread and thinks your fine too) about your wifes chemical imbalance right now, being pregnant. She WILL be moody and emotional. Don't take it personal and don't let it scare you.

I really have no concerns that you two won't be just fine. But don't let your guard down, keep learning, keep being remorseful and keep caring for her.

Hi LH,

Welcome back from the weekend.I'm glad you were able to spend some time with your W that didn't make things seem hopeless.

So,to address a few issues now.

1)I would say you need to and have to be 100% honest when it comes to all questions about the A in as much as your W wants to hear.I am not by any means saying lie about any part of it but some people here need to know X amount about the A and other's need to know Y about the A.Then there are the other's in between.I was one of those that didn't need to know all the minutiae about the A.As my counselor told me,there are constructive facts and deconstructive facts.For example,I didn't need to know where and when every sexual encounter was and how they did it and there are those here that did want to know.Always be honest about what YOU were thinking.It doesn't always mean it was appropriate or just at the time,only what was in your mind convincing you to make this decision.It can be explored in depth as time and IC/MC goes on.One day at a time and one question at a time.

2) Running around doing more work would not remind me of the A nor would I believe that your motivation is guilt.Rather,IMO,I would see this as an act of love and care.My WH never did anything more than what he did prior to the A which wasn't much to begin with.It was clear to me that he was not willing to make any changes in our marriage to make it better but rather he wanted ME to be the same and basically do things for him if I were to ever receive any measures back.A problem that existed before the A.He had to get,in order to give.

3) You can try to be strong LH but not like a stone wall.There is a difference.You do need to be there for your W,to help her up and keep reaching out for her.The analogy I always thought of with my WH is that he was way ahead of me and he should have reached out his hand and waited for me to catch up to him,in regards to my pain and dealing with it all.In the brief moments he was in a false recovery with me,he was very ready to move away from the A altogether as fast as he could but that just wasn't going to work and it was wrong.I understand that you are having a hard time too.One day though,I hope you can rely on one another to get through.That is what you are working toward.Do what you can but also don't feel like a failure if you just don't have it in you some days.We know how hard all this is.Again,working toward being able to lean on one another for strength,comfort and understanding.

4)IMO,you cannot afford to bottle anything up right now,or ever again.If you cannot open up about a certain subject at a certain time,get it out another way: paper,e-mail,journal,friend,IC,family,etc.It has to come out so you can deal with it and go back to it later.You cannot afford to miss any prime opportunity to learning about yourself and this A and I will tell you that sometimes,the most impressive stuff comes out when you least expect it.What helepd me most was keeping a journal where I wrote down everything and anything that I thought was important and it turned out to be so important,especially parts where my WH said certain things and then denied later on,only to be SHOWN that he did indeed say them and how were we going to deal with his views,etc.That would be my first suggestion: keep a journal or big pad of paper with you to write down any thoughts you may have when they come.This whole process is about BOTH of you,not one or the other.How you communicate,handle problems,how you will make this new marriage A proof and better than ever.It will take both of you to sort through it all,together.

5)Your fears are common after the discovery of an A but it's something that you would have to face head on.Hopefully you can avoid that and there are small indications your W isn't going down that road but time is still a factor here as she goes through the stages of grief.We can all sympathize though.My WH and I have been together for 20+years,best friends,etc,etc.We had what all who knew us thought of as "the perfect" marriage.So loving and so great a family.Everyone was shocked.I'm glad you realize what you could lose though.That fear will hopefully make you think twice about your choices in this life,from here on out.

6) For now,let your W guide you in how and what she needs to know.I can tell you that you may need to repeat things,and often.It will take a long time to process everything and she may seem to regress in areas that you covered already.She has to relive it and relive it,much like a child does,in order to have control over it(the outcome).She may have days where she doesn't ask much and another day may seem much worse.The great thing is you didn't have sex with OW so that whole sickening ordeal is not going to be covered.

I am betting your W is wanting to make this marriage survive,not only for herself,but also to keep her family intact and have you around to help with the baby and to be there for your child.You have that as a positive motivation as well,in your W's mind.I don't think she wants to be alone and pregnant.No women I know do.It is suppose to be a joyous time for both parents.When is the baby due by the way?

O

Thanks for the feedback guys -

Before I reply to your posts, which I'll do separately, I wanted to give you an update.

I've had a really bad cold since Saturday, and ended up staying home from work yesterday. I talked to BW several times throughout the day. Her mood, which, of course, I'm VERY tuned into for any signs one way or another, wasn't very good. It seemed she really didn't want to talk much. I called her a number of times (she has said she doesn't mind, and kind of likes it, when I call) but didn't talk for long. She's entitled to be in a bad mood, obviously, but I'm afraid it's really brought me down -- especially in comparison to such a good and open night on Friday that I felt started to bring us closer again.

I went into town to pick her up at work at the end of the day and she was in a pretty bad mood. It's hard to dicern whether this relates directly to the A or if it relates more to everything else she has going on. I think it's more everything put together -- pregnancy, and the resulting headache, nausea and assorted aches and pains, plus work, plus this A really has her tired and down. Poor thing. I feel so bad for her and love her so much and wish I could just take on all her pain myself. She's totally overwhelmed. Can you blame her?

She got on my case a bit yesterday for "doting" on her too much. I have been all over her asking if "there's anything I can do" to help her out and make her more comfortable, or if there's any work she wants done. The answer is always "no" and she seems to feel pressured to find me a project or something I can do, which just makes her more sour. I'm really not trying to ease my conscience -- I don't know if I'll EVER be able to do that -- I'm just trying to help her and to make things easier for her and show her how much I care. Arggh -- I'm trying to make amends or demonstrate my remorse through actions and I just can't find a way.

Anyway, I made dinner, we really didn't talk much, watched some TV and eventually went to bed.

Before we turned in, I told her I was there for her and wanted to help if I could. She said she was just totally disoriented with work, and the pregnancy/her physical condition, and the A revelation and that her mind, body, soul and heart are all very confused right now. I told her "I know there are things I can't help with, but there are some things I can, too." She said she didn't really want to discuss it, that it was too uncomfortable, so I just shut up and turned in.

This morning I went downstairs early and made her breakfast (just a bagel) and she seemed in a better mood. She thanked me and actually offered a hug and stuck her head out for a kiss on the forehead (I accepted, of course).

So there's where things stand right now. I'm trying not to annoy, trying to be strong, and most of all trying to offer my help and comfort. She's generally not accepting these things, however, and I'm not sure what to do. I feel like if I keep offering I'm annoying her, but if I stop it doesn't put us much further along the road to recovery.

I just feel at a standstill right now. Worse, I feel like anything I do to try and improve things (offers of help, love, etc.) are starting to annoy her. I feel like I may be sabotaging things.

Sorry, I know this is a roller coaster and I should just be ready for things to be really bumpy for a while, but I feel like I'm at a real low point right now. I'm sick, bad time at work, grad school finals are coming, the job search isn't going well, I'm walking on eggshells at home and I just can't figure out a way to get us tracking toward recovery.

To top it off, on Friday we have our first ultrasound. We're both very worried about it and hope everything is A-OK with the baby (we have no indications otherwise). She in particular is very concerned about it, repeatedly saying "I hope everything's OK." I think that's really weighing on her mind and that things might "loosen up" a bit once that's over and we hear a heartbeat and things seem to moving in the right direction and that the miscarriage risk is reduced.

Hi again LH,

Just a few more thoughts for today.If you are pressed for time in life and we all know how it's a balancing act just to be here too(it's addictive),do post in updates if that is easier rather than addressing each one of us.That can be very time consuming.Or address parts of what we are posting to you.We will understand.

Next,you are over-analyzing.What you need to do is stick with the plan of action and don't get off course despite whatever emotion your W is feeling.It will be up and down for some time so if you want to remain sane throughout all this,you just have to keep telling yourself that it's *expected.If you keep doing what you are supposed to,then you can be relatively sure that it's not what you are doing so much as it's the aftermath of the A dealing with all that."How things stand" is going to change daily,if not many times a day.

Don't second guess yourself so much either.Things might feel like they are at a standstill and maybe they are not but you cannot gauge progress by the emotional factor,not now.It's not realistic.

Do go over on the recovery board too and try reading there and introduce yourself.Those folks can help you in certain ways some of us(like me) may not be able to here.I am not recovered so I will leave most of that discussion up to other's.

I will say ahead of time,now,that I hope all goes well with the U/S on Friday.

You're doing OK.Keep up the good work~

O

dusa-

Thanks for the words of encouragement -- especially the "you seem like a very nice person" and "good husband" parts. They're comforting. I really, truly, normally am those things but this A has me questioning myself and (obviously) my wife questioning me as well as to how I could do something so completely out of character. I'd be curious to know more details of your story and how things are going with your situation -- it might be instructive in dealing with mine.


racer -

Thanks, man. I appreciate the positive prognosis from both you and your wife. You guys have been through it, so it's encouraging, but I'm not going to take anything for granted and am going to keep working my butt off to fix this. As far as the "minor indiscretions" part, what's your opinion? Am I making too big a deal of this? Blowing it out of proportion? I don't want her to think that I'm blowing it off, but I also don't want her to start thinking "well he thinks this is a big deal, so it must be a bigger deal than I might have thought." Maybe you're right and I should start to downplay it from here on out and not argue. I just don't want her to think that I'm not taking this seriously. A betrayal is a betrayal, right?


OG -

Thanks again. I am letting my thoughts out here and soon in IC, so I'm hoping that will help with me personal situation.

I've done some more thinking, per your suggestion, about exploring my fears and figuring out exactly what they are. I guess there are basically two fears: 1.) BW decides she wants to divorce me, or 2.) BW decides to keep me around, but we never really address this issue fully, because we're busy with the baby, etc.

I fear #1 because I don't want to be alone, and even if I were able to find someone else, that other person just wouldn't be BW. Plus I would like to know my baby, whom I've already started to love, and be the good dad I know I can be. BW knows me better than anyone, she's my best friend, she is the love of my life, and I just don't know what I'd do without her. I fear #2 because I want to have a good and secure marriage with BW and restore the closeness we once had (I understand that overall it cannot be the same, but I hope that we can restore much of what has ben lost and add some new and better stuff along the way.)

So, those are the fears, for what they're worth. Right now (and I know I'm jumping the gun), I'm afraid we might be headed for #2. One of my biggest concerns in all this is that she's embarrassed about how all this would look from the outside (no one knows except me, BW and OW -- and possibly OW's sister), and that she might stay together for appearances' sake and for our families and for the baby when, really this decision should be based on whether or not she still wants ME, warts and all.

One of the things that has always been most important to her in our M has been her ability to trust me implicitly and her belief in my honor. Not looks, not smarts, not money, but those honesty issues. I feel like I've ruined that now and the only hope I cling to is that, by confessing to her when I could have kept it inside for the rest of my life, I've started to prove that I am still an honorable person. I don't know.

I'm really feeling like I shouldn't have told right now, and that I've ruined the memory of her first baby forever.

I will stick with the plan and let her drive, try to stop overanalyzing and try to get under control. Thanks for being here.

- loveherso

A question or two for you: Are you still seeing the OW at work now? Is it everyday?

You can't be "work friends" ever again with OW(she has to be 100% GONE) and I know you said you were trying to get another job.

Does your W know that you work with her?

O

Hi OG -

OW is 100 percent gone, period -- you do not have to worry about that. It's been total NC for a week now with no problem whatsoever, and, like I said, there's been nothing inappropriate for over two years. I will keep up the NC at any cost.

While my job might be a little more difficult if I'm not able to talk to her by phone (she has lots of good work advice and institutional knowledge), it's not that big a deal and I can certainly live with it.

We work at a fairly large entity, so the likelihood of bumping into her is very, very remote. I'm not calling her, and she's not calling me.

I am going to move jobs anyway, however.

LHS,

My story is similar in that my husband had an EA with OW (possibly more, but no sex), but nevertheless they were very close. I eventually found because he acted strange and then he confessed. We vowed to make our marriage work out and make it better, but the initial things did not really get resolved. We did not go to counseling - BIG mistake!!! He eventually got back into contact and it lasted a while - I had no idea. Found out about it after finally confronted OW and exposed - should have done that long ago. We went to counseling and things are much better, but they are not perfect. I find my reactions similar to those of your wife and even to this day, it is painful for me to think and talk about it. MB has helped a lot. I don't post much, but I read A LOT and I've learned a LOT and I'm still learning...

The difference between you and my WH is that you seem repentent and remorseful and willing to rebuild. My WH is willing to rebuild and he tells me that he is sorry and feels bad about what happened and how he acted, but he no longer wishes to be reminded of those times and he gets extremely angry and upset when I bring up the topic. I have now sought a pro-marriage counselor which whom I will be making an appointment for both of us. I feel that we need more counseling with someone who supports marriage and is willing to work through things. I find it difficult to find a good counselor that accepts insurace that is pro-marriage and willing to work with a couple.

I think that you are doing good. The mood changes that your wife experiences are probably hormonal as well and this may be a tough ride for you both for a little while and it will most definitely test your endurance and your patience, but you know what, I think that you will both get through it. It is important that you both seek marriage counseling someday, preferably with a pro-marriage counselor to address the issues that led to the breakdown in your marriage, but as long as the both of you are committed, you have a good chance of a successful recovery. Keep doing what you are doing. You may not want to push her too much. Just wait for her to come to you and address her thoughts and fears when the time comes. Keep reassuring her. This is what she needs most probably. Being pregnant is tough.

You will get through this LHS and it may be the hardest lesson ever, but it will make a difference in your life and how you relate to not only your wife and family, but also others.

Hang in there!

Oh, and BW does know we work at the same place -- forgot to answer that...

LHS,

It might be a good idea to switch jobs, even if NC has been established with OW at your current position. It will still make your wife worried about that contact could happen, if if accidentally.

Leaving a company is not easy and I'm not sure what kind of field you work in. I live in the DC area and I know that unemployment is extremely low here and there are lots of good opportunities. If this will help your marriage get on track faster, then you should eventually consider it.

This probably makes her very uncomfortable. It might be a good idea to suggest to her that you will be looking for a position in another company soon so that you can ensure that you and OW do not accidentally bump into each other.

I understand that you value the advise and expertise of OW (even if only on a professional level). My husband said the same thing about his OW and this made me feel even lower because I felt that this was yet another level that I could not compete with OW. It hurt me that my husband valued OW's advice over mine, even though she only knew him "superficially".

I am going to switch jobs and am working very hard to find something that will get me out of here but will still be considered an OK career move. We'll have a baby to provide for soon and I need to choose my next step carefully. I feel pretty positive about being able to get out of this job sometime in the next 2-3 months. BW knows I'm looking.

That said, I have every confidence that I will never see or talk to OW again. If there is a time when I run into her around work, I will tell BW -- if she indicates she wants to know such things. We're not even to the point of having talked that out yet.

Hi guys -

Just thought I'd post a quick update.

BW seems to be starting to warm up just a tiny bit more, but it's still pretty hit and miss. She is more willing to give a little more physical affection -- just a hug or two a day and maybe a forehead kiss.

I feel like most of the time she's just on autopilot -- surface level converstions that never get into deeper issues and certainly never touch on the A. More and more, I think it's clear she's not facing the issue at all (not denying, really, but not dealing with it, either), and is opting to put it away until a better time -- when the pregnancy is further along. Like I said, the first ultrasound is on Friday morning. If all goes well there, the miscarriage risk drops dramatically and I think she'll feel more secure that the pregnancy is off to a good start and that it's OK to start addressing this stuff. Who knows? I've made it clear that she's in the driver's seat on this and can deal with it whenever and however she wants.

The only time she really raises the A issue is when she looks at me and says "you look so down -- are you thinking about this all the time?" She's sympathetic to a fault and says that she's worried that the changes in our relationship that are taking place right now (she doesn't call me at work anymore, for example, and there's virtually no physical contact) are making me "feel bad." I told her that she should stop thinking about me and my feelings and start thinking about herself -- otherwise there will be a time when she gets pretty angry and resentful at me and at herself. She agreed, but says she can't help it -- that she knows I'm not sleeping and that makes her sad. She said last night "maybe you've lost enough sleep over this" because she's seeen how it's affected my sleep and apetite over the past two years (although, at the time, she didn't know what was causing it). She's such a great person.

Anyway, last night before we turned in she said "we're going to be OK" and this morning, when I told her "we need each other," she said "I know. I definitly need you." Encouraging signs, I think, but I just can't get it out of my head that once she faces this and the anger sets in she may have a complete turnaround and it's going to get bad.

Just went to first IC visit this afternoon (the one last week was basically just an intake/assessment with a different counselor). It was a good visit, and thought I'd post my impressions and get any input. It's my first time seeing a counselor, so this is all new to me.

As you'll recall, if you've been following this thread, after my confession, BW wanted me to go to IC. She was right, of course (as always), I do have stuff to figure out -- issue #1 being HOW could I go and do something so stupid as to have an A -- but there's other stuff related to my personality and drive for success, etc. that probably isn't that healthy.

So, I like the counselor. She's a Licensed Independent Clinical Social Worker who I found through my office. It's only been a single 1-hour session but I think she's going to be good.

I gave her the in-the-nutshell lowdown on the situation and she basically gave me the following things to do/mull:

1. IC thinks I'm maybe being a tad too hard on myself. Guilt and remorse are fine and healthy and deserved and appropriate and important for my spouse to see, but she thinks I'm taking it to the extreme (I'm kind of a mess). She says I need to start distancing myself from the A a bit and not be so fixated on my regrets about it, otherwise I'll never be able to be strong and help BW get through. IC says she thinks BW has little doubt that I'm remorseful (did I mention I'm kind of a mess?), but that taking it too far, and indicating that I might never be able to forgive myself just raises the question that I might end up a broken man because of this (and that might even be less attractive than an adulterer).

2. IC thinks I'm not giving our relationship enough credit. Despite the overall (good/improving) health of the relationship, and BW's repeated assurances that "we can work through this," I'm paralyzed by the fear that it could be over. This is normal, too, but she said she thinks that from the sounds of things, we have a long history together, a very loving relationship, strong family connections, communication that has improved substantially, and a baby on the way. Plus, our most stressful and difficult times are behind us and we've learned from them. These are all positive things I need to focus on to inject a little more realism into my assessment of the situation instead of all the doom and gloom I've been feeling.

3. IC says I'm probably putting too much pressure on BW. By repeatedly asking if there's anything I can do to help, or if there's anything she wants to talk about, or saying I'm sorry all the time, I'm dredging up the A and trying to move forward into recovery before she's ready. IC says I should tell BW that I'm ready to talk about it whenever she'd like, then leave it alone for a few weeks and suggest a conversation about the A if BW doesn't bring it up during that time. This will give her a chance to process without feeling pressure.

Those are the big three for now. I'll work on them. Any thoughts are, of course, appreciated.

Hi all (again) -

Just a good-news update following my IC post from yesterday. Don't mean to go on and on with such frequent postings, but I find it helps me to write and, of course, I'm always fishing for comments/input from any and all.

Picked up BW from work yesterday, and she asked how my IC session went. I told her it was strange to share my personal thoughts/feelings with anyone but her -- but that it was actually enjoyable and helpful, which she was glad to hear (she's been worried about me).

I told her the three big things that IC went over that I cited above:

First, that I'm being too hard on myself. BW said "I agree with that one completely. There are much worse things people do in a marriage and you've really gone overboard in beating yourself up. You've taken remorse to an extreme. I know how sorry you are." (my A didn't go "all the way," by the way)

Second, that I'm not giving the relationship enought credit to be able to withstand something like this. BW said "I agree with that one too -- our relationship is strong and we can get through this."

Third, that I'm putting too much pressure on BW with my frequent "are you OK?" and "is there anything I can do?" questions. BW didn't comment much about this one, but it was clear (from her silence) that she agreed with IC's assessment and that she is feeling pressured by me to "move things along."

When we got home, she gave me a kiss on the lips (first one since d-day! :-) ) and a big hug, and said "I'm so happy you're feeling better after going." I told her that going to IC helped, but that mostly I was thrilled to hear that she agreed with the IC's assessment. Because we haven't really talked about all this very much, it's been hard to get through to BW and figure out what's on her mind -- she has trouble sharing her feelings even under the best of circumstances. The IC's thoughts, I think, serve as sort of a proxy communication for us. Instead of saying "I think," I can say "IC thinks" and that provides kind of a buffer that makes it easier for me and BW to communicate right now. If that makes sense...

BW has been, I think, very concerned about my mental state and has seen me falling apart a bit. So this response (the kiss and hug) is I think as much a sense of relief on her part that I'm on my way to getting better and stronger and things will be easier for her to deal with because I won't be quite such a mess. She is a saint.

Her overall responses are, I think, good news. Now (when she's ready, obviously) we can hopefully get moving on to the next stage and start actually dealing with this between me and her. I love her so much -- more than anything in the world -- and want to help her heal and get the pain out and (eventually) under control, but I guess she's just not ready yet. We're two weeks from d-day today and have only really had one or two conversations about the A. As you all can tell, I'm on pins and needles.

LHS,

Sounds like you are on the right track. Congratulations! You two will be fine and I think your marriage will be better than ever in the end. Both of you will have learned a lot out of this unfortunate experience.

Good luck to you both!

Hi LH,

Everything sounds good so far.And your IC also sounds good too.Always a concern when it comes to the subject of Infidelity.

You are both very fortunate not to be dealing with any sexual aspects.Believe me,it makes it all so much more profoundly horrible.This I am sure,is partly why your W may be able to overcome the A better than you might think and the fact it's been over for some time.

Stay the course and do read over on Recovery if you can.You'll see first hand how those in Recovery are doing at all stages and you may even come across some issues that may be in your future and how to deal with them.

Good luck and keep on postin'~ <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

O

Thanks for the votes of confidence, you guys. They're appreciated.

Just want to let you know that we went in for the first ultrasound together today and say the baby and heard the heartbeat! Beating strong and fast -- great indicators that the baby's going to be healthy and all is going well.

That was weighing heavily on both our minds, so this is good news in general and also in terms of moving forward!

Will keep you posted.

- love her so

Hi folks -

Just an update from the weekend. In general, a pretty good weekend, though it had some ups and downs (normal, I guess, for 2 1/2 weeks past d-day, right?).

As I mentioned, Friday we had our first ultrasound and it ended up being a very, very good day. It's amazing how this baby stuff can totally block the A from both of our minds. It was so exciting to see the baby, and it's incredible how one has the ability to love something so much even when it's so small and hardly looks like a person.

Anyway, like I said, we were both ecstatic about seeing the baby on the monitor and seeing and hearing the heartbeat. We had been concerned a little because it's so early and we really (obviously) want the baby to be OK. BW was so happy and she allowed me to give her lots of kisses (on the lips, even...) and hugs. It felt so good. Physical contact has been few and far between, and I really miss it -- she clearly does too but breaking through the barrier is still tough and I'm guessing will be for a long time.

Anyway, Saturday was just OK. Got up early to make BW some toast (she had morning sickness). Later, we went shopping and picked up a few baby things (just some bibs) and spent some really good time together -- it seemed like just old times before the A. She took a nap when we got back and I really worked my butt off to get all kinds of work done around the house.

Saturday afternoon, though, she went for a long walk (alone -- she's "walking fast" instead of running now that she's preg) and came back pretty down in the dumps. She talked to me a little about how she's having trouble "figuring it all out" and coping with all this big news -- both the baby news plus the A -- at once. She said things go along fine then she starts thinking about it and it really makes her sad and bothers her. I told her I was sorry, and she says what she usually does: "I know you are." But that was the extent of the conversation. She just won't talk about it yet. I feel so awful for her and I wish I could just take the pain away.

Went out to dinner at a restaurant she really liked Saturday night, but the conversation was muted, and though she enjoyed the dinner, I'm not so sure she enjoyed my company.

We got home and watched a little TV then went up to bed. She got upset with me because she said she can't help but feel that all the added stuff I'm doing around the house, plus the extra "I love you's" are motivated simply by guilt or that I'm just trying to get back in her good graces and that it all reminds her of the A. I told her that all extra stuff I'm doing is honestly motivated by love, and she said "I guess so" but didn't seem very convinced.

She said she's having a particularly tough time because she feels like she can't get mad at me because I'm already so mad at myself (for the A -- I've really given myself a beating) and down (because of my situation at work, etc.) that she feels like she would just be "piling on" and that it would make her feel guilty.

She said she feels "stuck" -- that she wants to get past this but that she feels like she can't get her anger and sadness out because she thinks I can't take it right now. I told her that I would just have to take it and that she should get it out because she needs to and it could very well be much worse later if we don't deal with it. She said
she couldn't help but feel guilty for making me feel bad, that it's just her personality.

I told her I was trying to be strong, and that I can live with all the other pressures (job search, grad school, bad current work situation), but that my number one worry is her, and because she hasn't gotten any of this stuff out, I'm walking on eggshells because I'm worried that a bomb is going to go off any minute and she's finally going to unload on me. After that she said she just needed to go to sleep, and went to bed pretty mad and resentful, I think.

As soon as I woke up on Sunday she held my hand and told me she loved me and needed me. I said thanks so much and told her how much I loved her, etc. It was so nice and felt so good. I'm so in love with her -- it's deeper than ever before.

We went to church and then to the store and shopped for a few more baby things -- bought a matching "onesie," hat, and blanket. It was cool and just the act of purchasing the stuff made me so excited and a little overcome with emotion.

I spent the rest of the day working on a paper for grad school and she hung around at home reading and doing a few things around the house. Had a good dinner together at a small local fast food place, then came home and spent time watching TV -- then off to bed. Just another normal Sunday.

Today she's been fairly cold on the phone, though. We used to call and e-mail each other 3-4 times a day, each. She really hasn't called me at all or emailed since d-day. We used to always close every conversation with both of us saying "I love you." Now it's just me saying it and her responding with "OK" or "I know" -- every once in a while I get the "me too." It's these little things that are getting to me. I know I deserve it all and more but it hurts and I just wish sometimes that the bomb would go off so we could get things out on the table.

- Love Her So

LHS,

This is a long process. Nothing solid is going to happen overnight. Just don't give up on her and always be there for her.

It is so awesome to see a FWS be so supportive and in love with their spouse again. I think you are doing everything you can right now. I know this is hard for you to see because it feels like you are doing nothing or not doing it right. Coming from the BS I can see that you are putting in 100% to your recovery. Honestly there is nothing more that you can do at this point.

Quit beating yourself up so hard. It will take time and when that time comes that she does want to talk about it all then you will need your energy for that time. Take it easy on yourself. You know how it happened, and you are fixing the damage done.

I will say a prayer for you tonight because I believe you are worth it. I think you are a great man with a heart of gold for your wife. I am glad that you love her more than ever now, that is the way it should be.

HINY

LHS,

I know this roller coaster ride is hard for you, but keep doing what you are doing. Some of it may be attributed to the change in her hormones as well due to her pregnancy. You are doing fine. Keep communicating and talking. Tell her how much you are falling in love with your baby. EVERY woman would love to hear something like that. This may help you to express your love in a different way and it may help her open up a bit.

Don't expect miracles; recovery is hard work and it takes time.

You say that the two of you go to church. Is there anyone at your church that you may be able to talk to? Maybe the two of you can light a candle and say a prayer together and ask God to help and guide you towards healing and a stronger marriage.

HINY and dusa -

First of all, thanks for the kind words of encouragement and the prayers. As you can probably tell, I am having a really tough time right now and can't begin to tell you how much the support means to me.

I KNOW this is a very long process, that we're just at the beginning, and I need to be more patient and strong for BW. I'm trying hard, but my results are pretty spotty thus far. I just find it so hard to be strong when the very foundation of my life (my M with BW) is at risk (however small) of crumbling, my job situation is totally uncertain, and all the other pressures of life (grad school, etc.) are bearing down on me.

I know I owe BW strength, and I'm trying my best -- but I just don't feel like I'm delivering very well. When I'm under stress, she's the only one I lean on. My failure to deliver in the strength department makes me feel weaker, and that has put me into a bit of a vicious cycle that weakens me day by day and certainly doesn't help her...

At the same time, I also know that all signs from BW are that things are going to work out for us. She has told me several times that "we're going to make it through this." But the fear that this M could end, ever -- however irrational that fear may be -- is virtually consuming me to the point where I'm having trouble thinking about much else. I love her so much and can't imagine life without her. Couple that with the pregnancy, and all the emotions surrounding the baby, and I'm pretty much a wreck right now. I go to IC Thursday. Maybe that will help a bit.

I guess I would feel better if BW and I could just talk things out -- even once -- to sort of get us on the path to reconciliation/recovery. I dream of a conversation in which she actually gets mad and emotional over this whole thing, lays out her feelings and tells me what I can do to help her through. I guess there's not much to do, though, but sit and wait for that to happen.

It's good to hear that someone thinks I'm doing something right, because it certainly doesn't feel like it and I have no results to show for it so far...

LHS,

I know exactly what you are going thru only I'm on the other end - I'm the BW. My WH will not discuss the EA and I feel that there is so much more to it and he believes that he is saving me from pain by just not wanting to discuss it anymore and move on with our lives. He wants to resume marriage counseling, but not discuss the EA. This confuses the heck out of me and it scares me very much. I wish, like you, we could just talk it out and get EVERYTHING out in the open so that we can learn from it and hopefully have a better marriage. My husband is attentive and loving and I KNOW that he wants this marriage, but he's not helping by not wanting to discuss what led us to this point in the first place. He thinks that he's aware of what led to this breakdown - job pressures, intimacy issues etc. and now that those have been resolved and NC has been established, he feels that I do not have a right to "nag" him about the EA any longer. I tried, but there are so many unanswered questions that I wish we could address in MC. Our marriage IS better, but this is not enough for me. I'm afraid that if we do not learn from what happened and actively recognize where we failed, it could or may happen again. And that scares me...

Do you think that you may be getting depressed a bit right now? Maybe your IC could prescribe a light anti-depressant medication that you can take just for a little while until you feel better? I'm not big on AD meds and I've never been on any myself, but I know that there are lots of people on MB that have been helped over the initial hump by taking the AD meds. Just an idea. Discuss your feelings with your IC and let her know how difficult this is for you.

You have a lot on your plate right now - school, job search, impending fatherhood. Those are all big stepping stones and add the revelation of the A to that and it's no surprise that you are feeling the way you are.

You did the right thing by telling your wife and it was courageous and it speaks of your character. Don't ever second-guess yourself regarding this. Better she found out from you than finding out thru the grapevine someday or thru other means. I found out about my WH's EA when I accidentally came across racy emails between the two of them. It hurt like h*ll to read these things. They are engrained in my brain now. Sometimes I wish that I would have never read this and I would have found out the way your wife did (if my WH would have just confessed to me).

Have you ever thought about maybe writing some of these things down for your wife rather than discussing it? Do you think she might be receptive to a written word from you? Bring it up in your counseling session.

I do think that you are doing better than you give yourself credit for and I do not think that your marriage will crumble. It's rocky and bumpy right now, but that's part of marriage, too.

Don't wear yourself out though. Keep doing nice things for your wife and keep telling her how much you care and how much you are looking forward to becoming a Daddy. But don't oversmother her. Show her some strength too and that she can lean on you for support. Be her pillar and her lighthouse! It's okay to show remorse, but you also need to show her strength that you have learned from this and you are going to come out a bigger, stronger and better man and husband.

Take care of yourself and stay out of the heat!

Hi lovesheso,
I think you did the right thing by telling her too. My H just told me 6 weeks ago and I wish he was as remorseful and committed as you are. I think you should give her the time she needs but there other things you can do to show that you're committed to her and your relationship. Helping her in anyway you can to make her life easier is a start.....even if it involves scrubbing the toilet. Believe me she may not say much but she will notice. I know that after my husband told me that I was in shock and just observed his behavior for awhile to see if his actions and words add up. It is a horrible situation but I admire your honesty in not living with a lie any longer.
Grace

Well said, Grace. I feel exactly like you. LHS is doing a good job and I have a lot of faith and him and his wife will be okay in the end. The shock and revelation is still so new to his wife and it will take time.

Hi gang -

First off, thanks again for all the words of encouragement and support. Like I said, they're appreciated greatly during this difficult time. I'm kind of surprised with myself. I'm not a discussion board or chat room kind of guy at all, but this board has become such a big help for me, and the people here are great (especially the folks who have joined in this thread -- thanks guys).

An update:

I'm actually feeling a little better today, for a couple of reasons.

First, I think I finally managed to appear a little stronger last night to BW and not so "falling apart" as I kind of have been over the past few weeks since D-day. As I mentioned before, when she sees that I'm a wreck, she feels like she can't talk about the A or what's going on in her head because she's afraid to hurt me or make me feel worse. I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the woman is a saint. If I can just resolve to be a little stronger each day, and successfully pull it off, I think that will help both of us, but her in particular (I really don't care about me all that much anyway). I just have to stick to it.

Second, BW seems to be warming up a bit more and more each day. As I've mentioned, she really hasn't been all that "cold" anyway. She's been very good to me -- much better than I deserve, considering. Things have generally been pretty "normal" but there have been some little "bumps": not responding to my e-mails, not calling me at the office, not responding to my "I love yous" with "I love you too," no real physical contact, and a little anger and resentment starting to seep out. These are super minor, of course, and expected, but they still hurt. But yesterday she responded to a couple of my e-mails, and her mood seemed a little better later in the day. She's also been giving me quite a few "I love you too's" lately.

I'm going hour-by-hour, and things could change quickly, but I'm starting to get the feeling that she's (after three weeks) beginning to come to grips with all this. Just a feeling I have. Last night before we went to bed, she asked "Do you love me?" I told her that I abolutely do and that I'm in love with her and will always and forever be committed to her. Then she asked "Do you love me more than anything or anyone?" And I said I definitely do, and always have -- although I told her the baby is likely to soon become a close second. She didn't say much else, but seemed to take my answers as reinforcing something she already knew but just wasn't feeling quite secure about right now because of the A.

Dusa - Sorry to hear that your husband is less responsive. Looks like we're in similar boats -- your WH doesn't want to discuss the A, my BW doesn't (at least not yet -- but I have to give her credit, it's only three weeks past d-day). Two sides of the same coin, it seems. Speaking for myself, I'd like to just "move on" and put this behind us too -- as your husband wants to do -- but I've been lurking on MB and reading other stuff enough to know that that can not be very healthy for the BS and be a recipe for disaster down the road.

I know I sound bad on this board some days, and I appreciate your concern, but as far as antidepressants go, I think I'm going to avoid them for now. I'm contending with a lot right now and I need to have a clear head. I think they work for some folks, but I just don't know about them working so well for me.

Finally. thanks also for the added encouragement as far as confessing goes. I guess I know it was the right thing to do, but it just seems to have brought so much pain. I just have to remember that it was my A that is causing the pain, not the revelation. She deserved to know -- I love her.

Thanks again. You guys are the best.

- Love Her So

LHS,

Glad to hear that you are doing better. There probably will be more bumps in the road, but you'll see that in time, they will appear less often.

One thing that disturbs me a little bit is when you write that right now, you don't really care about yourself all that much. You should, LHS, because that is going to make you stronger and especially look more attractive to your wife. I know how hard it is not to fall apart etc. After D-Day, I lost 18 pounds (mind you that I only started out weighing 115 pounds!!!) and I looked weak and pitiful to my WH. He started respecting me more once I got myself together a bit more, but you'll get there, don't worry. Just stop beating yourself up about this so much. Show your wife that you are a strong man who has made a terrible mistake, but you are owning up to it and you are committed to a better marriage with her. Pregnant women like to feel protected and cared for, so show her that you are THAT kind of man - strong, able and willing to take care of her. This will be hard, but you will have to work every day on not falling apart so much. Okay? Whenever you get that "weak" feeling, come to the MB website and vent here and we'll help you thru it. I'm not a board and chat room kinda gal either, but MB is different.

Someday, in the future, you will BOTH (your wife, too) have to address what has led your marriage to take this turn because the both of you have ownership in the breakdown, so that you understand what led to this and how you can protect your marriage from this in the future.

You'll be fine; don't worry so much!

On the strength front, I'm trying very hard. I really did do better yesterday -- I'm not sure BW noticed, but I did. Hopefully I'll do even better today and take it day-by-day trying to improve a little each day until I'm back to my usual strong self.

I tell you, I honestly used to be about the strongest, most outgoing, successful, confident guy I knew -- but this whole experience has really turned my into a shadow of my former self. I realize now what I never did before -- that for me, right or wrong, BW is a tremendous source of strength and confidence. I know someone's probably going to jump all over me, saying I should find those things from within and blah blah blah -- but in my case it's true and I'm fine with it.

Finally, I have to say that I was handed a bit of bit of bad news today. As I mentioned, I'm trying to find a new job. My current job situation is unpleasant and really not tenable in the short- or long-term right now. It's complicated, but the bottom line is I need out, and SOON. I've been searching for jobs and I had an interview scheduled for today but the interviewer totally just blew me off. I went across town to go to the meeting and they told me he just wasn't going to be able to do it today and needed to reschedule. This really bums me out and would normally be something that would weaken me, but today I'm just trying to suck it up and deal. I called BW to tell her what happened, because I told her I would report in to let her know how it went, but I have to be careful tonight not to get down and keep being strong.

Ugh. All this stuff at once.

Hi LHS,
FWW here - over six months into recovery now. We are still going through ups and downs (mostly ups though). I know it's hard, but just realize that your W is going to probably need a lot of time to sort through all her feelings. Sometimes she is going to be ok, sometimes thoughts are going to hit her that take her down and sometimes she's might get angry, sad, etc.

It's ok. That means she's working through this news. This is going to take months though, and just like me, I'd get comfortable with helping her through ups and downs for a long time to come. From everything I've read, you're doing very, very well.

You don't necessarily have to be "tough" or "strong", but more "there" for her. Listening, hugging, expressing your sadness and remorse, because yes, you both are going through a tough time.

My H is a wonderful man and is really working through this admirably. It just takes time though. Patience and time.

Good for you in getting into baby-stuff. It's good for you and it shows your W through actions that you are committed to your family.

Hang in there. Don't let the job-issue bring you down either. Easy for me to say, eh? Your W probably feels more vulnerable than usual (pregnancy, A, home stress). She needs you now more than ever.

GS

Hi everybody --

Could really use a hand this morning. Just had a long talk on the phone with BW and I'm at a loss for what to do and what to think right now. I'm spinning a bit. Please help!

This description is going to be kind of complicated, I'm afraid, but here goes:

BW was in a bit of a bad mood this morning. At home she came back upstairs from breakfast (I was in the bedroom getting ready for work) and seemed very down. So I said "Are you OK?" and she said "I'm just still really confused" (about the A). I said that was totally understandable, and "I'm sorry," and asked if there was anything I could do to help, or if she wanted to talk about it. She said no, that she was just going to have to figure it out and deal with it on her own. I said that we might want to try and get through it together (she has said "no" to both IC and MC), and that I was there whenever she needed me. I gave her a hug and told her I love her. She was pretty unresponsive, and I had to get to work, so I left the house feeling really empty, down, and scared -- despite my efforts to hide these feelings, they were probably obvious to her.

I called her at her job later this morning to say hi and see how she was doing. She immediately asked if I was OK, and said she was worried about me and that I sounded bad and seemed to be in very rough shape. I told her not to worry about me, that I was concerned about her, that she sounded down, and I offered again to help.

She said she was confused and feeling insecure because if an A happened once with me, she keeps thinking about how it might happen again if I found someone more interesting or attractive. She said she knew this wasn't really a rational fear, given the way I've reacted to this A (it's been clearly toxic to my soul), but it was a fear she had nevertheless. I told her the fear sounded very normal to me and totally understandable. I also told her there was no way that it could or would happen again -- that I would do anything to earn back her trust, and that my current condition was proof positive that doing anything like an A again would kill me.

I said again that she shouldn't be worrying about me -- that she should be worrying about herself. She said she couldn't help it, and then started to get kind of mad. She said that she was basically getting sick of trying to help me through this and feeling like my "counselor," that she couldn't do it for much longer and was getting to the end of her rope.

She said I was too fixated on the A and trying to move us forward into recovery, and that with things like this I'm just going to have to live some some discomfort and insecurity until she's ready to deal with it. She doesn't want to deal with it right now, has too much going on to deal with it right now, and when she does decide to deal with it she's going to deal with it on her own and may or may not ask for my help.

She said she can't understand why I can't seem to get past it, that it's "not that big a deal." She's said again and again that we'll get through this and our marriage will make it, but it's going to take time -- and "why can't I believe" her?

I said I was trying to be strong, not lean on her for support, not talk about the A unless she brings it up, not put pressure on her to deal with it, and hide my up-and-down emotions from her so she doesn't get the sense that I'm in rough shape and feel compelled to help me or "counsel." I honestly have been trying not to push, other than to offer support and help. My emotions are my emotions -- I'm broken up about this, feel awful, want to help her, and want to get us through this. The emotions are hard to hide, but I'm trying.

The kicker is I though I had been doing a better job of not putting any additional strain on her. Guess not.

So this is what the roller coaster is like, huh? Looks like I just hit my first real loop. I'm just afraid there are worse ones ahead.

I go to IC in a few hours. Any suggestions from folks here on MB would be appreciated.

Thanks -

Love Her So

Find out her most important emotional needs and fill fill fill.

persistance
patience
and
consistency

hold her and don't always talk ... sometimes we women don't want you to "do" anything but "be there" with us and listen.

Just like PEP says:

I especially love it when my FWH grabs me and holds onto me like he doesn't want to let me go. He does this when I least expect him to do it. It makes me feel like a "precious jewel", like he found me again and is afraid that he will lose me. Early on in R, he also used to often surprise me with little "gifts", little special things that I like. He would just show up at my office with these. I have many of the enclosed "I love you" notes still on my bulletin board at work....

Often his ACTIONS speak louder to me than his WORDS....

Just a few thoughts. Give her time....

Thanks so much for the responses, you guys -- I'd be interested in any other help/input, so please keep them coming!

I am working very hard to try and fill her emotional needs right now, but she doesn't seem to want them to be filled by me, I'm afraid -- and would likely rebuff any attempts by me to do this. It's understandable, I guess. She's stubborn and fiercely independent in the first place, and now I've committed this breach of trust. I think it's going to be a long time before she's going to "let me back in" enough to try and take care of her needs. And, frankly, right now I don't precisely know what those needs are, mainly because I don't think she does, either.

I am certainly being persistent, which just seems to be annoying her and making her angry.

I am working hard to be patient, although I think she views me as impatiently trying to push her along toward recovery every time I offer support or help.

And I am being consistent, but I think I'm not consistently deivering what she needs -- because I don't think she knows exactly what that is yet.

As far as holding her or hugging her is concerned, she's pretty much got me shut down, physically, so that's out. She's OK with being around me (we're still sleeping in the same bed), but doesn't seem to want me in her personal space. She is willing to give me hugs once in a while, but, now that I think of it, it may be more because she feels bad for ME -- not because she herself really wants any closeness from me right now.

She tells me it's just going to take time, but it's been three weeks since d-day and each week seems to get a little bit worse as far as signs from her go. In the first week, physical contact shut off. Second week she was talking to me/e-mailing less and less. Third week she hardly ever responds "I love you" when I say it anymore.

I'm in a panic when I think about what next week might bring. Do you guys think we're in a permanent downward spiral or do you think it's just a normal BS downhill track she's going to be on for a while before she bounces back?

As far as little gifts go, I don't think she'd go for that, either. She has said that when I do "extra stuff" for her she just is reminded of the A, thinks I'm trying to make up for it, and thinks that me putting in extra effort is "too much" for me to take and that I'm just going to "wear myself out."

Ugh. I just don't know WHAT to do. She tells me we'll get through this, but right now she's got me completely shut down.

She tells me I'm trying too hard. I'm so frustrated and scared.

- Love Her So

don't underestimate the importance of that stmt!!!!.

write it down for yourself and constantly read it over and over. the fact that she tells you you guys will get through this is huge. take it to heart.

(this is coming from a fellow FWS who is waiting patiently for her BS to heal so i do know how hard it is.)

... "Hey. If you want a foot rub, I'm available."

"I brought home Chinese. Your favorite."

"I did the laundry."

"I filled your car with gas and had the oil changed."

"I took the cat to the vet for his shots.."

"I went to see your Mother today. We had a nice visit."

"I made pancakes and bacon for breakfast."

She is going thro every emotion there is right now. She is withdrawing to deal with her pain. I smile and look happy now but inside I am raw. I never tell him if I am hurt or osre because I do not want his attention. I get angry still and hold it back. I love him but hate him. I can't cry - I shed my tears inside. I want to leave him but can't. I want to hurt him like he has hurt me. I feel unattartive and ugly. He will do this again. He will leave me. I'm not good enough for him. I am stupid . and the big one WHY DID THIS HAPPEN -WHY GOD???

This is what she is going through every minute of everyday. She is just a basket case right now and will be for a long time. This is why A are so bad. You both need counseling and now. I didn't and turned all the hatered for H and OW in and hate myself.

FinallyLearning -

I am trying very hard to fixate on her statement that "we will get through this" and keep it in my head at all times, but there are three things that get in the way and make the fear keep rearing its ugly head:

1. We're only 3 weeks out from d-day. I think she's pretty much still in denial and she really has no idea right now what she's going to want to do 6 months from d-day or a year from d-day.

2. Even if there's just a 1 percent chance that we're not going to get through this, that feels like too much for me to bear. I love her so much and I can't imagine a life without her. I KNOW that the uncertainty is all my fault, but it's so hard to handle the thought of the M crumbling.

3. As time has gone on since d-day, she's grown colder and more distant. Each week seems to bring a new erosion of some time-tested habit we've developed in our marriage -- for example, this week the "I love you's" are becoming fewer and farther between. It just feels like we're trending in the wrong direction...

You know how hard it is. And I feel like we're not even completely inside the entrance to this dark tunnel. We have a long way to go...


Pep -

Thanks for the advice. I've tried to do "special things" since d-day, throughout our marriage, and especially over the past two years. These things seem to just irritate her right now.

Some examples:

She really doesn't want me touching her, so a foot rub is out.

I usually do all the cooking (always have), but she feels really queasy right now because of the pregnancy, so every time I ask what she'd like for dinner, she gets annoyed.

I tried to do the laundry and she said that it felt like me doing extra work was just out of guilt, which made her "sad" and I think a bit irritated.

I just don't know what to do except sit and wait. Everything I've done so far just turns out to be the wrong thing as far as she's concerned.


Realtor -

I understand that she's going through terrible pain and am trying to help her -- I really am. She doesn't want it, so I guess I should just let her withdraw and be there when she finally does say she needs me? I am in IC. I'd go to MC or talk with her about anything she wanted at the drop of a hat, but she just won't right now, so I guess I'm stuck.