My W of 14yrs has told me she wants a D. We have had our problems over the years and has dropped that on me before, with the I love you but not in love with you speech. Now she says she hates me.

Bio:
When we married I was 23 she was 20 and pregnant. We have 2 children now 13 and 5. She thinks that is why we married. I don't think that at all. I love her and still do.

When we met she had recently moved from another state and was staying with friends. She was running away from a relationship that her family did not approve of. Which I did not find about until a few years into the marriage.

It became obvious to me that she was never really over this OM. It seems that she has always been able to follow what is going on with OM and has been able to keep tabs on him due to other family members. When things were difficult in our relationship she would often bring up feelings she still has for OM.

She had been really struggling with a lot of pressure at work and with life in general and I think that there was contact made with OM on a visit to her sister in other state when she went to visit her sister for a B-day weekend. We had been having some problems and she decided it would be a good idea to clear her head and think.

She made little effort to make contact with me or the kids that weekend and after I had not heard from her late Sunday afternoon I called and she was sleeping at 4:30 in the afternon. She said she would get ready and head home if she had to. She later called me and told me she would be staying the night Sunday.

She made it home late Monday and greeted me with the cold shoulder. I failed to mention that the week prior she had not been wearing her ring and did not take it with her.

She gave me the cold shoulder all week. Saying she was trying she just wasn't feeling it. She has been secretive and having late night phone calls with "her sister" that week.

Sunday the 11th of Nov. she received a call from her sister saying her dad arrived and was sick. I won't go into details but he does have health issues. So she emailed work Sunday night requesting a leave of absence and left back out of state Monday.She did spend time with her dad and took him to doctor that week.

While she was there she basically did not want to talk. She made no contact with work and lost her job. Her freinds had been calling my house and asking about her because she has had no contact with them. I finally told one friend the situation. I also spoke to her mom. Which she is also avoiding.

She has often told me she misses her family and wanted to be closer. Well I ended up taking the kids half way to her on the 21st so they could spend Thanksging with her and her family. She never made it to her D parents hometown but chose to spend it with her sister and her husbands family (which is somehow related to OM) so esentially OM family.

I was really concerned and did fianlly mention that she please not subject the kids to her being with OM with them present. She told me I was crazy and over reacting.

She came home yesterday and is ready to file. This is all happening extremely fast and she has no desire to work things out or see a counselor or read any books.

I have read HNHN and am working on LB. And having been really reading all the posts on MB I can. I have implemented Plan A to the best of my abilty. I just don't know how to slow her down or if I can.

She is in withdrawl and her taker is definately in charge right now.

I am greatful to all the people on this site I have been able to keep my emotions in check somewhat due the responses and posts I have been reading.

Thank you all! God bless.

fasttrack,

Welcome to MB.

Please email me at the address listed below.

I presume you have already read the "For Newly Betrayed Spouses" thread on the Just Found Out board. If not...do so.

email me regardless.

Mr. Wondering

I am very sorry you are here, ft, but you have probably guessed that your W is having an affair. The very best weapon you have against her affair is exposure. That is the stick of Plan A. The carrot of Plan A is to show her that you are willing to meet her needs and do your best to rebuild your marriage if she will end her affair.

But the first step should be exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy and exposure is ruinous to them. Good exposure targets are parents, [ALL] spouses, siblings, etc. Your children should also be told the truth about the affair and given moral guidance.

When she talks about "filing" let her know that you won't cooperate in any divorce action and will countersue for adultery, calling the OM as a witness. Whatever you do, don't leave your home and don't agree to give her custody. Making her work for every thing will slow her down long enough for her affair to crumble.

She is in "withdrawal" from you?

Thanks Mr. W. I will do that when I get home I am at work now.

I failed to mention that she tells me that everyone tells her that I am the perfect husband faithful/loyal (reminds me of my dog). I go straight home from work love my family time.I am happy spending time at home. She is more sociable by far and has a very outgoing personality.

I really don't drink any more and haven't really since my early 20's. Maybe a glass of wine with dinner occasionally. I have contributed my share of LB and can list them if you think it will help.

I honestly am in shock at how fast this seems to be happening. She says that it is not happening that fast that she has only held on this long for the kids. Now it's time to do things for herself and not worry about what any one else thinks.

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

MelodyLane,

Thanks for the advise. I will do all I can to slow her down.

The OM is her "true and first love" according to her. She has not confessed or will admit to contact with OM at this time. She says she is not being completely honest with everything for fear I will "use it against her".

She is in withdrawl from me mainly.But also with her family and friends. She is very hostile tawards me trying to provoke my taker and has succeeded a few times.

I have a hard time with the part about letting the kids know. That terrifies me.

Next time she goes to OM's location, hire a private eye to get you all you need in evidence for exposure.

Consider purchase of a keylogger for your computer and you can record all e-mails or letters she may write to him...more evidence.

Check cellphone bills online, and you can easily spot OM's number, as the frequency of calls will exceed all others....more evidence.

WS's always deny, and the more evidence you have, the more confident you can be in exposure. If OM is married, make copies of all you get, and furnish her with all the evidence, so she won't go into denial. She will be your best ally in establishing No Contact.

Sorry you find a need to be here, but this site can help you through this.

edited to add: consider purchasing a voice activated recorder (Radio Shack) to hide on a spare phone line in your home....again...more evidence...

Depending on the state some things are and are not admissable.

Most will admit tracking device information especially if you own the automobile. I have seen in some states it is perfectly legal to place a GPS device on any car as long as you do it (place it) on public property. Strange, I know, but that seems to be the rules that private eyes have to live by. (I also don't know how anyone would prove you didn't place it on public property).

Since she is out of town for days carrying on with this guy the GPS system may really help you out.

Check out the spying 101 thread for more detailed listings of items that will help you out.

Mr. Wondering

Had a talk with my wife yesterday. Told her I had to do everything I could to keep our family together. She did not like that and it upset her.

I brought up the subject of the OM and mentioned that she never emotionaly let go of that relationship and she said she had tried but couldn't. Told me that is who she is meant to be with. I said there is no way we can ever work things out as long as she holds on to OM emotionally or physically.

I told her I couldn't just walk away, she said I didn't care about her happiness and only am thinking about myself and I am crazy to be playing with her emaotions this way. She said I can't accept the fact that I am not "the one". And she made it clear that she hates me...

I am really having a hard time with this. I think I did a really good job with no LB's but she got extremely upset and was crying and started yelling at me. I told her I couldn't talk to her when she was like that and went out to hang some lights. After that I did not bring it up just made some dinner and got the kids ready for bed when I put my daughter to bed I went to lay down also.

I think she is moving out today she has some stuff packed. Not sure where she is going. I had talked to her prior and the kids will be staying with me.

I said earlier she was in withdrawl from me and her family and friends what I meant is withdrawn. She thinks everyone is against her.

We are in TX and she has had her work phone and I can't see the log of that phone. I think she has a Go phone or something similar now. I know she mentioned getting one last time she was going out of town. Has another phone that my son had that she took also. She is very cautious with the phone thing. Before she left the last time she was on her work phone "with her sister" when I woke up at 4:30am .

It really seems hopeless that we can work things out right now. I am not sure who I am dealing with. She is such a nice easy to talk to person that everyone loves. Now she does not care what anyone thinks or it seems what they feel. She is close to having me convinced I am the one that is wrecking this marriage. The things she says really hurt.

Is the OM single or married? Does he also have kids?

If he is married, you really need to inform the other man's wife about what is going on.

I hate to add this to the mix FT, but are you sure of the paternity of your children?

I had asked her about OM when she came back from 1st trip out of town and he is not married. She mentioned he was engaged but I am not really sure. He is in another state. This guy is her high school sweetheart.

I am certain with with paternity of kids. No test but not really any doubt. Son looks just like me.

There is another instance I recall of a possible A. She told me it was close but nothing ever happened. She did say she had strong feelings for this person. This was someone that she had spent a lot af time with. They shared a mutual sporting interest. That OM was married but that OM wife was always around.

Like I said I am questioning why I am trying to save this. She agreed to let me have primary household with the kids.

Speak to an attorney and get this in writing. It could be the most impostant thing you ever do.

This is probably a lie. You will need to get the goods on him and then EXPOSE the affair. Do you have a phone # on him? With a phone # you can have a PI track down his name, address and marital status.

I agree with MEDC that you should get primary custody in writing. But most of all you need to find out who the OM is, if he is married and START EXPOSING THE AFFAIR.

Yeah, I thinkk I will contact an attorney today and see of I can get her to sign something.

She told the kids yesterday when I was at work that she was moving out and thet they would have 2 homes... She says my son is "glad" we are seperating. I told her that is not true that he just has not accepted the fact that it's over. I am really worried about him. I have been telling him I will do all I can to make it work and she is telling him it's over. Supposedly she told him about her feelings for the OM. I didn't have a chance to talk to him yesterday about anything. After she blew up at me she went to him crying and I am not sure what was said.

She keeps telling me not to ask him who was around on Thanksgiving and the 5 days the were out of town at her sisters. Says I am making him uncomfortable. I think she asked him not to tell me. She had been asking me to lie to her mom the 1st weekend she went out of towm. She did not want her mom or dad to know she was that close to them but not going to see them. She told me to tell them she was just not home if they called. I told her I wouldn't lie but her Dad called and that weekend and I just told him she wasn't home (big mistake).

You need to tell that boy TODAY about the affair and give him moral guidance. He needs to be protected from her lies. She is going to screw your kids up if you don't step in and stop this NOW. She should not be allowed to allowed to lie to your kids and drag them into it. She is trying to drag the kids into her affair in an attempt to normalize it. Affairees believe they will give the affair an air of respectibility if they can successfully introduce the kids into it.

This affair should be exposed, ft. Find out who this man is and if he is married. BUT, tell your kids today and tell the rest of her family and your family. It should be exposed wide and far.

Keeping her secret for her is to ENABLE the affair.

Dr. Harley on kids and OPs:


1. "Do I let them talk to me about what they do with OW and my WH?

Yes. Knowledge is power, and you want to know as much as possible about what's going on. Besides, you want to be able to answer their questions about why their father is with the other woman.

2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse)."

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

This is a very normal feeling that you are experiencing, and I imagine you're getting a lot of off-the-cuff advise from friends and family members to cut the biatch loose. However, you have to remember that this is your life and your children's, and you need to make your own decisions that are in line with your code and are in the best interest of your children.

I have heard all of the nasty things that you have heard; "She was trying, she just wasn't feeling it.", "I'm not in love with you and don't know if I ever was.", "We're just not compatible (or right) together", "This isn't happening fast. It's been over for years, I have just held on this long for the kids."

It's all crap. The bottom line is that your WW has chosen to renege on her commitment to you and your children, and to place her destructive interests above all else. She has an absolute right to make her own choices, as do you. You can choose to become a better person by studying here, and more importantly, to become the best father you can be...and none of that requires your WW.

Everyone knows that divorce causes serious issues with many children, even it those issues are not instantly apparent. You can't stop her from divorcing you, but you can do what is right for your family.

I am currently reading Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters by Meg Meeker, MD. Here is a passage from the book that may help you clarify what you want to do:


Maybe your WW isn't worth fighting for, but when you read here, you will see that your WW's current feelings will probably be thrown into serious shock when reality hits. But you need to do what you believe is right.

Thanks,

LoBoy

Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn
by Jennifer Harley Chalmers, Ph.D.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8112_lesson.html

Even if another man HAD contributed a sperm cell to the mother's egg, fasttrack is their father. Their only father. Period. The sperm cell is long gone.

Thanks LoBoy. That really reminds me what I am fighting for and is just what I needed.

I told her last night I was fighting for my family and for my kids because they can't fight for themselves. This is when she was asking me why I couldn't accept the fact that she was leaving.

I am a child of D and I never really stopped wondering what I could have done to change things to make it all better. Often I did blame myself (I was 9 at the time of D). I have always said my children would never have to go through what I did. Hard to believe I am now in that situation.

ft, what are you going to do about it?

Be quick about getting yur primary guardianship set up with an attorney. Be very quick before she comes back to her senses. This should show you how far skewed her thinking is. I'm bettin' she would have killed for those kids before
the OM arrived on the scene.

And this is just me, I would call up this jacka$$ and tell him you won't go down easy. Don't ask him anything, just tell him to get out of you lives. He's a trespasser and a thief of your kid's mother. He's a jerk and probably won't even say anything back to you. Make her more trouble than she's worth to him.

ML,

I plan on contacting an attorney right now and see if I can secure primary custody. I will continue to fight for my family and do all I can. I am still working on the Plan A basis. Not sure how that will work when she is out of the house?

Most likely she will be out of the house when I get out of work. I think she was looking at apartments last night. WW is already making changes to joint account and bills etc. This has been in the works for a while because she has really been paying of some outstanding debts we had. She also started a new account with a nice bonus check(that she thinks I don't know about) she got last month. And she has one more commision check from her last job that will help her.

Financially she is in better shape then me but I have always put everything I made into the family. I never held back a check even the ones she wouldn't have known about.

Got some info from my employer, they offer some free counseling service. I am worried about the kids and I am thinking it would be good? Probably will be good for me also. I need to talk to conselors and see what they can offer. If not I will try and set something up myself with an independent counselor. I have never seen one so not sure. I have always held my feelings in so this is all un-charted territory for me.

Just because she says she hates you etc. and that OM is 'the one' she should have always been with it is not necessarily a forever reality. She is stuck in a fantasy from her high school days...dwelling in a past that had no responsibilities...only fun.

Her unhappiness in her marriage has fostered her ability to fantasize that the OM is and has been 'the one'. She is in la la land about that. She really doesn't know the OM as an adult person...it has been 14 yrs. Her bubble could burst sooner rather than later with a dose of reality.

It is possible that she will realize at some point that she really loved you all along. Especially if you use the tools you can learn from Marriage Builders and make real changes in yourself to be a better you so that you can be the husband she has always desired you to be.

If you want to secure custody you can do what you can to get that is writing (or even go so far as divorce, depending on your particular state laws). That doesn't mean it has to be the end of any future marriage with your WW. Affairs usually run their course within a couple of years.

I am sorry you are having experience this pain. Many of us have found ourselves in variations of the same. What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger. Amazing the growth that can happen through painful, difficult situations.

Trix,

I have no doubt MB will help me become a better H and person. I know it has changed my relationship with my children. As much as I dislike the current situation I am thankful because it has made me evaluate my life up to this point. There is no doubt everyone will benefit with the knowledge I gain from all the wonderful people here and the books I am reading.

I wish I would have found MB 14 years ago.

ft, when will the fight START? Because I don't see any action here. Counseling is cute and all, but there are much bigger things to be dealt with here.

I would secure your finances NOW before she plunders your money to finance her affair.

Are you planning on doing anything to save your marriage, such as exposure?And finding out who this guy is? Or are you planning on continuing to ENABLE HER WITH YOUR SILENCE?

She is counting on you bending over and quietly taking it while she destroys your marriage and family. Are you going to HELP HER in that regard or are you going to MAN UP and start defending your family from her assault?

What about speaking to your son? Your W is screwing with his mind to rationalize her affair and you are allowing her to do this to that boy. She is brainwashing this child into thinking that it is lovely and cute for her to destroy his family and I assure you he is sitting there wondering WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIS HEAD THAT IT DOESN'T SEEM THAT WAY TO HIM.

Kids sense RIGHT FROM WRONG and when adults don't validate those feelings, kids DOUBT THEIR OWN INSTINCTS AND BEGIN TO THINK THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH THEM. She is tellng him that adultery and abandonment are GOOD THINGS and he knows this is WRONG. He needs your moral guidance NOW. He needs to be told about her affair and told that adultery is wrong and immoral. He needs to know that your W is doing a terrible thing to his family so he can be validated. She is confusing him morally.

Is she removing furniture, money or children from your house as she moves out?

Trix I have mentioned what she remembers was without all of lifes real problems and responsibilities and she just told me I don't understand her feelings and noone does.

Her mom and her dad have married and D 3 times and can't get the relationship to work. He has been an alcoholic his entire life. Her mom has been married 6 or 7 times and when I last talked to her mom she told me she was considering leaving her current H to go back to WW's father because she still loves him. There is not a lot of stability in marriages in her family. Her mom tells her how unhappy she is and has always been. She told WW that her mom was unhappy in her 61 year marriage and her great grandma before that was misreable.

Her sisters and brothers are divorced several times. Her youngest sister is not happy and has mentioned divorce. WW tells me she is always comparing our relationship to other peoples. Not sure what she means.

I asked her that maybe we should try and learn what makes us unhappy ALA MB to prevent the same thing. WW is not interested...

Let me explain the benefits of exposure, ft. Dr. Harley calls exposure the equivalent of chemotherapy on cancer. Affairs thrive on secrecy and a strong element of fantasy. When they are exposed, the affairees are forced to see how sleazy they look through the eyes of others. Suddenly the affair doesn't look so pretty when others are looking at you with disgust and you are suddenly not welcomed in MANY circles. It isn't so pretty when you realize that your parents will not allow you to bring your affair partner home or that you are not welcome around his family; or that your affair is so sleazy that you can't even bring your children around your affair partner.

Exposure is the equivalent of turning on the lights in the crack house and bringing in a crowd of people. It is no fun to get high when others are watching with disgust on their faces.

This is why exposure is the most potent weapon you have at your disposal. It is ruinous to affairs. It is the most powerful weapon you possess as it has the ability to cause huge conflict in affair land. It may not kill the affair today [although we have had affairs end the same day they were exposed] but it will hasten its death and it will cause massive conflict in the affair.

ft, the affair needs to be exposed NOW. In a strategic, methodical manner that effects a tsunami. It needs to be exposed to her family, the OM's family, your family, siblings, etc. I would add her sisters husband to this list since it seems her sister is aiding her affair.

You have much opportunity here but you must take it while the getting is good. if you wait on this, you will have lost leverage, because she will be saying next week that she started dating after she moved out. And who knows, your exposure might even slow down her hurry to move out.

Where is she moving TO?

ML,

Thank you! I will defiantely talk to the kids when I get home.

Exposure with her family is not going to do much good I think. But I will continue with it. I will do it with my family and friends today as I have not done it yet. I have spoke to one of her good friends about it. I know her other friend is telling her it is all about family but wife mentioned last night that that friend didn't understand her feelings.

I will contact her sister because she is the one that gave OM my WW's contact info according to WW. I want to see if she wiil give me his contact info. Not sure how to approach her on this.

Just got off phone with sister she won't give up the number. I have the name it is her sisters husband cousin.

I still don't have anything to prove PA only and EA. Do I still expose as a EA?

If you have his name, go to Bigfoot Directories or Zabasearch
and put in his name and state, city if you have it. It gives
names, phone numbers, relatives in his home.

Don't let it throw you if you find a group of family members. Waywards lies about the marital status of their
"buddies", GF

Call up her mother and dad and tell them your W's sister is participating in hiding this affair. Expose to them too! Tell them all the lies your W has been telling them and ASK FOR THEIR HELP. It is real important that you ask for their help in saving your marriage and family for the sake of your kids. She is already scared you will call them for good reason.

Also call the sisters H and tell him what is going on at your end and tell him you know about the affair. Ask for explanation.

You will also want to call the OM's PARENTS and wife, if any. Do you know his name and his state? It will be fairly easy to get his phone # and call his house to see if a wife answers. [disguise your # and don't leave a message] You can also hire a PI - we know a fairly cheap one - who can get background info on him.



Ask her for her HELP. Tell her you are trying to save your marriage.

This is an AFFAIR. that is all you have to say: THEY ARE HAVING AN ADULTEROUS AFFAIR.

Can you get the cousins name and expose to your BILs' side of the family? Can you get the BIL's parents name and #?

Started exposing and I am feeling like the bad guy.Called one friend that had called me asking about WW and I mentioned A to her then(about 4 days ago).She had called me asking about WW because WW would not return any calls. Now WW called her and of course is denying A.

I have a feeling WW might have been at freinds house when I called. This is her best friend. She did not talk to me the way she did 4 days ago.

Feelings are not truth. It is bad to have an affair, not bad to EXPOSE an affair. If you are going to expose the affair, do it right, ft. Don't do a little easy, safe one here and a little easy safe one the next week. That has the effect of bringing a pea shooter to a fun fight and will achieve nothing except getting your [censored] shot off. It is just enough to inflict no harm, but just enough to piss off the affairees.

If you are going to stand up to the affair, sit down and start calling all these people one after another. That will create a TSUNAMI effect from which they can't quickly recover. If you are going to tick off your W, then get your money's worth!

Exposure is definately causing a Tsunami. Wife called me and is not happy. She says I should not be telling everyone our problems. WW's sister called her saying I was looking for OM phone#. Now she thinks I have exposed to some people I haven't even exposed to i.e. neighbors etc.

She still denies everytihng and is furious saying what I am doing is pushing her farther away. Thinks I am trying to turn everone against her.

I was able to talk to my son today. I told him that I am still doing all I can to work things out and I know his mom does not agree. She is telling the kids I am mad at her. Son confirmed that she told him she has feelings for OM. I have not had a chance to talk to the 5YO. I will talk to her tonight.

ft, it is not causing a TsUNAMI if you have only called her sister. That is a spittle in the wind. Have you exposed to her parents? The OM's parents? Other key targets?


Did the TRUTH ever enter into the conversation? The point of this discussion is to tell him the TRUTH and that his mother is WRONG for committing adultery. Your son needs moral guidance right now and much, much more than you are just working on things.

ft, you are bringing a sling shot to a gun shot and it is going to take much, much more than this to have an effect. Half measures will avail you absolutely nothing.

Good for you, fasttrack!!

Keep it up and do NOT feel bad. You are doing the RIGHT thing!

(((((fasttrack)))))

Don't apologize for exposing her. Just tell her you are sure sorry she is upset, but you intend on getting the news of her affair out to everyone. Let her know that you know it is Joe Scumball. It also doesn't matter if she denies it. The truth is the truth.

You can expect her to be furious because this is interference in her plan to screw her family over without consequences. But your marriage can survive her temporary anger, it can't survive an affair.

I'm not sure that was the best move. Her mom thinks she needs to do what makes her happy. I guess if running into another mans arms makes you happy for a while that is the best thing to do according to her mom.

I made her mad enough where I am pretty sure she will not want to give me primary custody. Which I need to make sure the well being of my kids is my main concern. Honestly since she has been out of town for a couple of weeks I have seen great impprovement in the kids behavior and attitiude. Now when she comes home she creates chaos and stress. And then makes me feel like I am at fault.

I don't like seeing the kids upset. I know my son was having problems sleeping. My daughter is having nightmares and wakes up in middle of night and asks me too pray with her. Maybe the best thing I can do right now is accept it for what it is and educate myself on helping the kids through this mess.

I still love my wife dearly and I still want the best for our family. But am I causing more harm then good?

Did her mother actually tell you this herself? This is ok, and some do react this way because many parents don't give a CRAP about their kids. Did you call the other people like I suggested? Her father, the OM's parents?

Even if the exposure target doesn't care and condones adultery, it is still pressure on the affair. It is still a success.


Get thee to an attorney and get this nailed down now.



You will be causing more harm than good by doing nothing to save your marriage and allowing your wife to destroy your family when you could have saved it. it is in their best interest to have an intact family. If you think your kids are upset now, wait and see what divorce will do. Divorce has devastating, lasting effects on children.

You are doing more harm than good by allowing her to screw with your childrens minds about her adultery. FT, you are all those children have. No one else is going to protect them from your wife's destructive path. She is he11bent on destroying their family and there is much you can do to stop it.

Her mom did tell me that if she wasn't happy with me then she needs to follow her heart and she could do nothing to change WW's feelings. Her mom did not have the best childhood herself. To this day she is still looking for "happiness" with her 7th marriage to 4 men.

I am took the morning off to get an attorny. I will see if she will still agree to me having primary custody. She stayed at a friends house last night. And this morning she decided to show some concern for the kids and called and said she would come home to get them ready. I think the friends told her she needs to focus on the kids.

It is very easy for her to make me the bad guy. She is a very likable person. I tend too think all my decisions and actiions out. She acts on impulse and speaks her mind on impulse and is fun to be around and makes friends with everyone. I just think they will believe anything she says. So she is saying I am the crazy one making all this stuff up to turn everyone against her.

Yes, they usually do say the BS is crazy, but that is expected. Just keep exposing and get this done before she gets to everyone FIRST and spins the story. Put the pressure on them and don't let up, ft. She does not know what she is doing, but WE DO. What we are telling you is based on tried and true experience. Bring this affair out into the open. She does not have to admit anything for folks to know the truth.

FT:


'Accepting' your WW's choices to destroy your family is NOT the same as ADOPTING them as your own. You have no choice but to accept your WW's choices, but that in no way inhibits or limits your choices. 'Helping the kids through this mess,' being the best father you can be, providing stability and security, and STANDING UP FOR YOUR FAMILY AND MARRIAGE can be YOUR choices...and your choices are not dependent upon hers.

If you know it inside of you that what your WW is doing is wrong for your family, you should not enable her. Do right by your children and focus on YOU and THEM. If your WW seriously wants to destroy the family, than she can. All of your choices should be mutually exclusive of your WW's choices.

Listen to Mel and the other Plan A experts here. But I would also get cracking on the custody issue. Work on getting the primary custody documents signed. If your WW has her mind consumed by the A and the fantasy of freedom from her family, then let her go, but that doesn't mean that you give up in your mind, that you don't do your best Plan A, or that you don't do your best to maintain that shred of love for your W so that if she comes to her senses in time, that your kids will have the possiblity of having the stable two-parent home that they deserve.

When you have spent years basing your choices on what is best for the family (including your WW's interests), it is a very tough concept to grasp that by her leaving, A, or divorce plans, that she is no longer part of the 'family' that you base YOUR choices on.

Your children will respect you for your choices, and when they are older and know the full story, they will resent and/or hate their mother for hers.

Thanks,

LoBoy

Called WW this morning and was talking to her about some things I needed too get so I could add the kids and her back on my insurance since she quit her job. That was all nice then she instructed me to stop calling everyone, that nobody wanted to hear from me and I am making them uncomfortable. I mentioned I am only informing them with the truth and trying to do what I could to save our family because what I have done is not working.

Told her what she was doing is worng and what she is telling the kids is wrong. She needless to say got really upset told me to LET GO... Said some more masty stuff about her having more affairs??? and hung up on me.

She called back about 10 minutes later about some financial mattters we are trying to straighten out. I asked her how she could go from how she was acting 10 minutes ago to being so pleasant when she needed something. She started getting pissy with me again. I asked her to call me back when she can talk to me without all the anger. She called back and I didn't answer and she left a VM. Told me we needed to handle this financial issue and was rude on message I didn't even listen to it all. Not sure if I handled that correctly?

Made some more exposure calls. And tracked down some more numbers for her siblings which I will try and call. I am still not sure siblings will be much help. I tried calling her dad and it goes straight to VM. Have not been able to get OM's number yet. If I had unlimited financial resources I am sure I could find out what color underwear he has on today. I did track him though.

Talking to some of her closer friends she has never been secretive about her EA with OM. Most seem to know about it. Some are in disbelief that she is acting upon those feelings. I knew about her feelings but never realized how they were affecting our M. There was always that fantasy about what life would be like with OM for WW. Especially when things were not so rosy.

I have an appointment set up with an Attorney for Friday. I am trying to get one set up for today with different one. Not sure it will happen because I need to be home when my daughter gets home from school.

LoBoy,

I do think I am doing the right thing for my family. There is no doubt in my mind about that. I did have the real talk with my kids about what WW is doing and I hope they understand because she always goes running out to them when she breaks down. And they don't see me having the calm non threateing conversation with mommy they see mommy balling.

I don't want them to resent or hate either of us. No matter what the outcome is.

The worst thing you could do to them is take a morally NEUTRAL STANCE about her adultery. It is important that you tell them a) adultery is always wrong and b) what your mother is doing is WRONG and immoral. Explain to them WHY adultery is immoral. Children need MORAL GUIDANCE and it is your responsibility to give them that guidance so they can defend themselves from her lies. Please DO NOT leave the conclusions up to them, they are CHILDREN who do not have the judgment or moral maturity to come to an accurate conclusion. You must tell them.

Do you have a phone # for the OM's house? Can you call there and see if a woman answers?

ML, I told them about M and commitment and it is not okay to have those types of feelings or contact with another person while you are married. I told them about the marriage vows and that you don't turn and run on people you love when times get tough or you decide they don't make you happy. I told them to look for solutions to problems rather then run from them. I told them to respect and always consider other people when you make decisions. I told them that what WW was doing is not acceptable. If there is anything else you can think of let me know. I am going to talk to them daily in hopes of limiting the damage. I know I haven't been the best at this but I am making great strides.

I have not been able to get OM# YET.

FT, sounds good. Please use factual language when speaking to the kids and use words like ADULTERY and CHEATING instead of "relationship." That can confuse them, because a relationship can be something respectable whereas, adultery is not.

Have you tried calling directory assistance in his home town to get a # on him? Can you check your phone bills to get a #? This really is imperative because this guy may be married and if he is, you have a powerful weapon against him.

Thought I would give a quick update. Wife spent one night at her friends and then came home the next day. I can tell she is still very depressed, she is sleeping alot.

Saturday was a decent day. I am implementing Plan A as best I can. I did some work around the house standard cleaning stuff hung some more lights outside. W went out with some girl friends for a birthday celebration on Saturday. Seems like she had a good time. Was hung over or coming down with a cold or both so she slept most of the day Sunday.

Yesterday my sister called and informed me my grandma was in town.Grandma is on her way to Arizona for the winter. W chose not to go see her. Says she will never go visit my family since I exposed to them, but I took the kids to see great grandma. It was great to see her she is getting up there in age though and she is convinced she doesn't have long to live.

When I got home yesterday she told me we need to figure out our situation. I have been trying to avoid relationship talk but she is pushing for " an arrangement". She had been living out of her suitcase for the last few weeks and she unpacked yesterday. I was hoping that was a good sign but during her unpacking she informed me that she had as much right to the house as me and maybe I should leave. I didn't want to respond to her when she said that but I told her I was happy there and had no reason to go.

She continued to tell me how unhappy she was and that she deserves her happiness. Also informed me how selfish I was for not seeing this and agreeing to a D. She still seems angry towards me and says I am playing mind games with her. I'm guessing she is referring to my Plan A. I still focus on giving and have learned not to let her words affect me as much, it still stings.

I am definately devoting more time to her and the kids but overall I don't think I am acting much different then I did prior. She did comment on my interest in keeping the house tidy. I will say that she handled the majority of the cleaning and I do most of the cooking and get the kids ready for bed. I am thinking that one of her LB's was my lack of helping with the house maintenance. Not sure but I will do whatever it takes and it keeps me busy.

I am working on getting some proof of the A. I will feel better about all the exposing when I have something solid. I added a keylogger to the comp last night, it's a free version with a time limit so not sure I will get anything. I am checking her phone and she has a couple of blocked calls on it. She is still spinning it all and making me the crazy H.

The kids are doing okay. S seems to be doing alot better and I talk to him as much as possible. Not sure what W is telling him and I don't try to get information from him. Both S and D had a rough week at school but this week started of pretty good.

I was in church on Sunday and the sermon really hit home. It's amazing how it always seems too. Talked about happiness and referenced Acts 20:35 and how it is better to give then recieve. So I am really focused on giving all I have. I feel pretty good emotionally. It has been tough but I am just thankful for what I have and continue to think of all the good things in my life.

Thanks again to all the wonderful people here. I am sad I have to be here but I am also so happy I found this place.

Take care,

What do you all recommend when she brings up the our relationship? Feel like she is trying to get me to agree on D so she doesn't feel solely responsible for it. I know Plan A does not include talking about it. I already tell her I will not talk about D only our M.

Just tell her you believe in the M and your family and have ideas on how it can be repaired. Tell her you want to be happy together and believe it is possible. Tell her that you look forward to the opportunity to try and make these things happen but that it isn't possible while she's involved with another man.

Tell her you don't want a divorce but can't stop her from filing for one. If she makes that decision then your attorneys can work it out. If she wants a divorce, she is an adult and can figure out how to get one, but that you will not be assisting her in any way and will make it as difficult as you possibly can and that is all you have to say about it.

Thanks Tyk. I will do that the next time she brings it up. Just trying to think of a good way of dealing with it without creating a LB.

Plan A seems to be going good. Last couple of days have been ok. W has been sick and I have been taking care of her as much as she will allow.

We were eating dinner last night and W has always struggled with the kids in regards to how they react to her discipline. She has a tendency to raise her voice and make lots of empty or unrealistic threats. D5 was giving her grief and they were arguing and I ususally jump in to try and diffuse the situation but I stayed out of it. She has mentioned to me in the past that she didn't like the fact that I interject when she is dealing with the kids. Out of the blue my daughter tells W she does not love her any more.
This really upset my W and she began to cry and left the table.

I didn't say a thing to W or D5. I usually jump in the middle of those situations and I wanted to but I stayed out of it. I think it knocked W out of the fog for a second. I don't expect anything from it like I don't expect much from my Plan A efforts right now but it did seem to change W attitude last night. W has been hibernating in my sons room. She came out last night and we watched a movie and she was actually decent to me.

I have been able to keep my emotions in check and am really feeling better and have been more confident. Showing my strong side with no pleading or displays of weakness. I think it is definately helping. Plus I got to buy myself some new clothes thanks to the diet. lol

I am trying to figure out how I can create an opportunity for us to work on the 15 hours a week. I am thinking W might be more receptive now. I'm not getting my hopes up. It's tough with the kiddos. And I still don't know that W is even willing. I was thinking about walks to start but I don't think she will go for it. Doesn't hurt to ask. Anything is better then what we have now.

Sorry, just kind of typing out loud. :P

Took a little nap at lunch time and had a dream about me and W on an outing laughing and having a good time. I really hated the fact that I woke up.

I was thinking yesterday how no matter how much pain and hurt my W has caused me I can't help but to love her now more than I ever have. I can't help but admire her beauty and wish her inner beauty would return. It's like no other woman can compare to her right now. I miss her smiling face and the way she always makes us laugh. I can only hope I am with her when she finds herself.

That dream I had really got me thinking or hoping I guess would be the appropriate word.

fasttrack... you are reaching the somewhat pleasant plateau of emotional detachment, where the fog speak does not impact you, yet you can detect the gems that are not fog talk, as seldom as they come. This is the time when you become most effective at Plan A. You are not reacting to her every word or action...you are in control of your emotions and what you say, and when.

Keep up the good work. This is when the term "unconditional love" will have more meaning to you than it ever has.

Continue to be the loving father, and use your imagination for searching for the 15 hours. Have something in mind, and then suggest she run to the store with you for something, then "spontaneously" suggest the plan you already had in mind, be it a live band, or a movie, or whatever you can thing of that will give you some moments together. Any time you can make this happen is a plus, and try to refrain from any relationship talks during these times.

You are on the right path! Stay the course!

Oh man... If only I could get ahold of your wife and rattle some sense into her!!!

"I miss her smiling face and the way she always makes us laugh."

Have you told her that? I know she might not be receptive to it right now. You seem to be in a good place to plan A her right now though. She might open up. Shattered dreams had some good suggestions. Add some spice to your lives, do something spontaneous.

Thank you SD & FCF,

I am continuing my Plan A. WW is still not very receptive to anything and manages to put a negative spin on everything. It is amazing how she manages not to see any good in anything that I do. She has been sick and I have done all I could help her out but she told me Saturday that I had done nothing for her and didn't care about her. But I know I can't expect her to see anytihng.

SD,

I really wish I could get her to participate in anything as a family or with just me. She wants absolutely nothing to do with either right now it seems. She makes little effort to do anything even with the kids. She seems to be in deep depression and I am worried about her.

FCF,

She is a wonderful person and I wish I could tell her but she does not listen. Any compliment I give gets twisted into a negative no matter how sincere I am with it. She seems to think she is a horrible wife and mother right now.

Thanks for the comments!
Take care,

WW called me last week to inform me she was splitting the cell phone bill with me, she proceeded to right a check on the joint account, which she no longer contibutes to.

This past Saturday and then just a few minutes ago on the phone I informed her that if she wanted to split the bills then we should split them all. She is not working right now but I know she stashed some money. She proceeded to tell me how "unfair this is".(I wanted to laugh) That I am not giving her time to find a job. And that she has been sick all week and wasn't able to look.

I told her I need some help because I have some upcoming bills I need to consider. ( Meaning Attorney fees) She pulled her head out of her A.. I mean fog long enough to start seeing that I am not going D without a fight.

She is more concerned about financial issues then the kids well being right now it seems. Told me that she asked S13 who he wanted to live with and he said me and proceeded to tell me she would take D5. This is rediculous. Really struggling to keep Plan A in effect with her when she does this stuff. Not sure how long I can keep it up.

I think I need to start looking at developing my Plan B. What do you think?

Thanks,
FT

One of your first actions to protect yourself from this should have been to remove at least half of the money from that joint account and stop contributing to it. You should seriously consider doing that now if you haven't done it already.

One of your first actions to protect yourself from this should have been to remove at least half of the money from that joint account and stop contributing to it. You should seriously consider doing that now if you haven't done it already. [/quote]

MIM,

I already opened another account. There are minimal funds in that account. We have some loans and bills that are auto drafted and money in there is to cover that. There was never an abundance of funds to begin with. We don't have a whole lot of outstading debt but we don't have much money either.

I am worried about how I am going to pay for an attorney. It will be a struggle paying monthly bills on just my salary.

Would you recommend that I conitnue to ask that she pay for half while she is still in the house? I know she is planning a move or possibly even trying to get me out. I think me letting her stay and contribute nothing is just supporting her financially so she can save up some money and bail on us.

She tells me that she doesn't have a job but she quit it knowing she had nothing lined up.

Having a rough time today. Went out and tried to do a little Christmas shopping and found myself getting angry and feeling quite a bit a resentment towards WW about the whole situation. Really trying to get my head straight as it is almost time to head home.

Well I think I did ok yesterday. We talked about splitting the bills again since WW is staying at the house. She proceeded to tell me how much she has done for me over the past 14+ years. "She can't understand why I can't support her now". I said I have no problem supporting my wife but I will not support her affair. She didn't have much to say after that.

I guess that was the right thing to say?

Sounds Ok to me. Plan A does not involve providing support for any of your W's activities that cause further damage to your M.

Thanks MIM, I was worried about it being a LB.

I am trying to Plan A as best I can. But she always steers any conversation towards D or arrangements leading to D or finances. I continue to tell her I will only talk about our marriage.

I always invite her to go with us when we go somewhere or do anything but she always declines. I am having no luck with the 15 hours.

Now it looks like she is heading out of the state for a couple of days again. Her dad is scheduled for a surgery. Of course this will also be her opportunity to see OM... Since he lives nearby.

Are you contributing financially in any way to that trip?

No, she has some money that she stashed away before she quit. I wasn't suppost to know about it. Plus she mentioned borrowing some money from her mom to finance the D.

WW left to go be with dad for his surgery yesterday. She never confirmed she was going so I wasn't sure, due to bad weather. I had a feeling she was going.

I had left her a note on the mirror she uses when putting on her face. Told her she was beautiful inside and out and I loved her. I don't tell her that directly any more. Other then when she ask me why I don't let go.

It seemed to have a pretty negative effect maybe it's a positive who knows but it's how I feel... She would not answer any of my calls yesterday and didn't even call us to let us know she made it safely. She finally TM'ed me this morning saying they are at hospital waiting for the Dr to let them know how it went. Still won't call me...

Sticking too my Plan A but it seems to be getting harder a lot faster then I thought. Not sure how long I can keep it up...

Got a TM from WW. Looks like there was not an actual surgery today... Now another test next week and "possible surgery" next week.

I am pretty sure this will be a weekend with OM as he is nearby where WW is now... Been doing some investigating and got on classmates.com for her HS and it appears OM recently registered there shows him as "new". Most likely where the contact started as WW was registered there for a while...

This really sucks!!! I have my kids with me which makes everything easier for me. But it still SUCKS!!!!

Only communication with WW yesterday was TM. She didn't even call the kids last night. I know my S really notices this even though he didn't say anything. It is so hard for me to understand how someone can do this to their family.

I have been working on my journal and will continue to Plan A. I am also looking for any recomendations on what I should be doing to win custody if it comes to that. Apparently she has second thoughts about giving me primary. Not that I want to think about D...

Thanks,

WW called yesterday while I was at a Christmas recital with the kids so I didn't answer. She ended up calling about 4 times while were there and left 2 messages for the kids to call her. On the last message she said "I love you, bye". I know it was a slip of the tongue and she didn't mean to say it but I can't help replaying the message. I have probably listened to it 6 times since last night. It's been so long since I have heard her say that...

I can't help but still hope that all this will work out. So onward back into Plan A. I know plan A has helped me feel better about myself and the decision I have made to do everything I can to keep my family together.

Well I wish I had some good news too report but... WW is still out of town. We called her on Saturday since she doesn't feel the need to call us. DD was looking for something and thought calling WW would help in finding it. WW seemed busy and only talked for a couple of minutes.

She called on Sunday from her mothers house. Apparently her Mom wanted to say hi to the kids or I don't think she would have called. Fog is still thick and forecast is calling for increasing fog...

I was able to talk to her for a few minutes and I was doing my best Plan A. I was trying to figure out when if ever she might be coming home. With the comments she makes I feel like I am talking to a love struck teenage daughter rather then a grown woman.

Sorry to vent here but it makes me feel better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

FT,

I didn't see where you pursued exposing to all of OM's family. Did you and I missed it? That would include his GF or finacee, if he has one. Or wife. Or ex-wife.

Have you talked with WW about counseling? About her choice to have OM both in fantasy and now reality in your marriage so that you guys can't grow together, be intimate together?

Did you take FCF's advice and share with WW how you feel...about your short dream at work?

When WW speaks about her feelings...validate them. Say, "I hear you feel resentful, angry (listen to what she says) about others knowing the truth about your choices, is that correct?" Say it calmly, lovingly...you really are HEARING her, not judging her. You are repeating to confirm or clarify what she is saying.

Her stuff is hers...her thoughts, feelings, beliefs, perceptions and perspective...just hers. Not yours to change, control, cause or cure. Her ACTIONS are what you're addressing through exposure...do not slack on exposure. Don't allow anything to hinder it. That's informing the truth of her choices and actions, not her stuff.

Remember to choose your own stuff...especially your beliefs...wisely. Don't live in the future which you cannot predict...stay present. She is deep into fantasy and has been for many years. She DISTRACTS, soothes with false comfort, and steeps herself in resentment, which feeds her entitlement...which gives her a false confidence, false self-respect and esteem. It's a deadly shortcut. You're seeing toxic choices generate long-lasting consequences.

You didn't cause them. You can't control or cure her of them.

What you can do is bring reality, steep yourself in it, in the present, and act from love and respect. Solely your own choices...I see you as choosing brilliantly well.

Listen and repeat back. Do not allow her back into your marital home until she's done a NC letter, gone to MC with you. Until she chooses the marriage. She abandoned her family before and you allowed her to come back. This time, do not, 'k?

Plan A is respecting her choices by stating them...she is choosing to not contact her children. She is choosing to pursue another man while married. She hasn't filed for D; she hasn't worked out custody arrangements...stay in reality.

When you listen and repeat her comments, they stop getting to you...because you can better hear her stuff as hers...her truth is nowhere close to the truth, 'k?

Stop your DJs...assumptions about whys...mucks up you see the actual whats and wheres...'k? Your perception of her being a teenager is actually right on the money...A's are about acting from our inner little children, not our adult selves. Part of the fog and rampant permissions to destroy and say we are not doing so...remember this and DO NOT allow yourself to act from your inner child, 'k?

Her FOO (family of origin) is what her A is about...the coping skills she saw growing up, coming right back...don't do them yourself. Keep bringing reality, respectful of choices...insert those when you listen and repeat.

Exposing the A is crucial to bringing truth and reality. Kudos on all you're doing, especially separating your bank accounts...on the joint one, be sure to remove her access to it completely...I'm sure you're the primary on the bill-paying account...you can do this without her permission, I believe.

Breathe...watch where you focus (past or future) and soothe yourself in healthy ways...as you do being their for your children (you really rock)...practice your listen and repeat with them...so they feel heard, experience your respect.

I highly recommend a book from the library "Between Parent and Child" by Eincott...an old book (it's in the 18th reprint) from 1972...which really helped my Plan A, change my life, and give me a fresh relationship with my sons. And others. Even coworkers.

Don't let her stuff into your brain until your brain knows solidly it's her truth, not the truth, 'k? You're her real husband...you are her intimacy partner...her A, her running from her own stuff is only about her...not you, 'k? That's the cruelest DJ there is...to make her stuff about you...and it's alluring, too...for if you are the cause, you can be the cure...and you really do know you cannot. She chooses.

You choose.

You are equals, 'k? You really are...equally powerful and limited. Another support group for you would be Alanon...because you are married to an adult child of an alcoholic. The behaviors continue even if the drink doesn't. The meetings are free and you can look them up in your area. They have Alateen, as well, so you may find a meeting for both at the same time...great support for your kids, too.

Watch your resentments, as well...if you stack them up, they will cover over your loving feelings...can make the love bank seem in the red when it isn't. That's one of the steps of how your real wife became wayward. Gimble said...

An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

You are doing a great job...stay the course...feed yourself and your ENs...with self-appreciation, acceptance, admiration, attention, and awareness, 'k?

LA

fasttrack, how's it going?

LA,

I want to thank you for your reply. There is so much to digest and I will try and respond to all but I am at work so I will do it slowly.

The exposing to OM family is something I have not done. I was, until last night, only going on my gut and my WW comments about her only "thinking" about OM. I still don't have a lot of information on him.

I feel like I veered off the Plan A path last night. My WW called last night to talk to my DD she had called my DS before I got home. I usually take the time to try and Plan A because she won't talk to me any other time. I ended up asking her what her intentions were and of course she said D. I began to put some pressure on her in regards to A. I was really trying to get some answers or her to admit something at this point. Of course she got angry and has finally admitted to A.

She ended up giving up a lot more info then I expected. I found out that my BIL parents are possibly OM "parents" I gathered they may have raised him? She also told me that they are in poor health and if I wanted to kill them I should go ahead and expose to them. One is in the hospital now. At this point I will lob the last few grenades. I am going to pick a day maybe tomorrow.

Thanks again LA! I still have more to say just need to get to work right now.

Thanks,
FT

Hi SD,

I thought I was doing really good. Last night was a big blow backwards and it was a restless night. I am kind of beating myself up. I really need to re-focus. Just struggling a little right now.

Thanks for your concern!
Take care,
FT

Her excuse for leaving is to be with her father while he goes to the Dr. Which her sister also goes with them. But I feel she makes it sound worse then it actually is. It is only the excuse to be there with OM.

I am not certain where I stand in regards to her abondoning us. When I spoke to an attorney she wanted me to file for D when WW left but I absolutely will not do this. The home is much more stable when she is not there. She has no remorse and only contibutes anger and negative thoughts and feelings when she is there. I am still not sure how keeping her out will help my Plan A.

I did mention to her last night that if she has no intentions of trying to work on our marriage she should stay where she is. She got mad and couldn't beleive that I "thought she would do that to her children". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Thanks,
FT

LA,

I did tell her that this did affect our relationship and the fact that she refused to let go has always affected our M. I always knew that she felt that way but never wanted to confront her about it. I regret that now. I asked her about counseling in early November she wants absolutely nothing to do with anything that has a chance of helping our M.

I did mention, not the dream but the fact that I missed her smile and the way she made us laugh. I didn't get a response nor did I expect one but it felt good to tell her. Even though she only wishes to see everything as a negative, I know she hears this stuff and it will make a difference.

I know her behavior is standard fog behavior but it is still tough to deal with. I really was doing great, sleeping, taking care of myself but last night was tough. I know that this is just one of the bumps in the long road.

I don't like feeling like this again. I refuse too let myself stay in this mindset and I will pull myself out of it today.

Take care,
FT

Her threat to you about "killing" his parents is simply that - a threat - to prevent you from spoiling her affair and the fantasy by exposing it to everyone.

Expose it as soon as you can to everyone you know. Her family, his family, every single person. Tell them that you need their help to end the fantasy and the affair, and to save your marriage, and the only way to do that is to end the secrecy and the fantasy she is in. That you love her, and that you need their support for your marriage and children, and that the OM is an intruder in your family and marriage.

Ask them to support marriage and family, and not adultery and infidelity. Ask them to support her by helping her see that her behavior is not in her own interest, nor in the interest of her children. That she should return home, get marital counseling, and work hard to recover the marriage.

Expose, expose, expose. She fears it because she KNOWS it will damage the fantasy and the relationship, and because she KNOWS the relationship is fragile.

SB

It looks like I will be skipping Plan B and moving into Plan D. I am feeling like I let myself slip past the negative in my LB.

WW kind of talked me into progressing with D last night. She doesn't have the $$ to spend on the D. She mentioned her Attorney said our home would need to be sold... After some talk she agreed to basically walk away. Giving me the home and primary of kids. She of course is worried about having to pay child support. Which I told her I want nothing if she is willing to walk away.

Her main concerns have been her credit and money. I don't know who she is right now and I have a hard time caring. I am willing to stand at the front door and wave bye at this point. Any person that can be that obsessed with another person that they can forsake her own children is not someone I want to be with.

I am not sure when I went into the negative in my LB but her actions over the last couple of months have shown me that she is not worth fighting for. It's not just the A, it's what she says and does to the kids that concerns me. I honestly think the things she says and does to them is more damaging then the D will be.

FT

I think, at this point, if she is willing to give you the house and primary custody of the kids it would be almost foolish not to take it, or at least strongly consider it. Divorce itself is not necessarily final, and if you still love her you might tell her that.

I'm sorry it hasn't gone as you wanted fasttrack, but the opportunity to get out, without a drawn out legal battle and a fight over the time with the kids is not the worst outcome either.

I wish you the best.

I am really struggling with what I should do. I think I played right into her hands. I know she was provokig me to agree to D and I fell in the trap.

But I have a hard time with this, considering that what she is offering is my best bet? Not jumping on this opportunity to salvage our home for the kids and myself is not the right thing to do? I am sure if this does go into a D all equity in the home will go to attorney fees.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
FT

Well, imo it simply comes down to a risk/reward analysis.

The best outcome is that you are able to save the marriage. I believe that it is still possible that you could do this, however, it has to be acknowledged that your Plan A efforts did not have the result you hoped for, and a weak Plan A does not set up a strong Plan B. Doesn't mean its impossible by any means, just means that in reality, you are not in the "ideal" position MB plan-wise.

In the event that you cannot save the M, the next best scenario would be a D with you getting full custody of your kids and retaining your fair share of of the marital assets. She's offering you that now.

IMO if its real its a tempting offer. Yes, its playing into her hands. She's buying you off, how aware she is of what she's doing, how much she really means the things she's saying and doing, how much is fog and how much is real? Who can know? But that doesn't change the fact that it is a very tempting offer. You know that if you don't take this offer, there is still a real chance that you end up in Plan D anyhow, and at that point she might not be so accomodating.

That's just my take FT, I'd suggest you hear many other opinions before making a decision.

Thanks Tyk, your points validate my thoughts on the situation.

I kind of threw it out there not really knowing what her response would be.This was after her insisting that I don't listen to her and her telling me what she wants to make herself happy. But her eyes lit up when I mentioned it. It was heartbreaking to see her reaction. I could not beleive it myself. It was like the bell sounded for her and she had just thrown the knockout punch. I think she wanted to go out and celebrate...

I feel like I am losing respect with my DS. He sees the mean things she does and hears the mean things she says. I worry about what he thinks about me. I tell my DS and DD that I am doing all I can to save our family and my marriage. I just feel like I am validating her actions and words by continuing to Plan A.

If she is really willing to give me joint custody but me being primary household, and the home I am not sure I can pass it up. I honestly still can't beleive she agreed. But I think what sealed the deal for her is that she was concerned about having to pay child support. Not necesarily what is best for the kids. It really is shocking too me.. my stomach is in knots at the thought of D and it was a restless night.

FT

Have another question about how to handle her new found joy and freedom and how great she feels now. I want so badly to have an AO and do some serious LB when she tells me how much she is enjoying her new self. I won't allow myself to get sucked into the AO and DJ trap. I know I am the better person. But it is still hard to digest this poopoo when it is spewing from her mouth.

FT,

How are you sleeping now?

I wouldn't buy into her fog, even about walking away, until I had it signed and notarized at an attorney's office. I'd work out a visitation schedule, including holidays, etc., what she's required to have at her abode (how many dressers, how much clothes, toys, etc.)...very detailed...so she can really see where these choices may lead...

I can share that when you feel like a crappy wife, mother, daughter...whatever role you have...doesn't look like abandonment (and it is)...looks like you're doing everyone else a favor.

Of course you aren't. Doesn't mean that's where your WW is...however, that's more fantasy...may factor in.

Your job in Plan A is to bring reality...act from respect...get out of the way of her consequences. Then you won't want to LB so much...

Your own DJs, I believe, are kicking in your anger big time...your resentment...and you're doing them to yourself.

Here are a few: "Her main concerns have been her credit and money."

"But her eyes lit up when I mentioned it. It was heartbreaking to see her reaction. I could not beleive it myself. It was like the bell sounded for her and she had just thrown the knockout punch. I think she wanted to go out and celebrate..."

These hurt you...and aren't true...see the fog is full of justifications...fantasy...where you control everything she does, cause her feelings, her resentment, and are the cure for her stuff...when you KNOW you are not...so she could have lit up because in her self-deception, where she lied to herself that you didn't love her, wouldn't care if she had an A or not...she may have had a moment of feeling "right" in all her wrongness...because she guessed she could get you to talk divorce...doesn't mean it won't kick her to her very soul...you don't know...

Don't forget this is very much like a drug addict...and they want to score, to stop pain, distract...they focus on their own feelings...so do not focus on yours.

Know them...stay aware of them...do not react from them, 'k?

Plan A is preparation for Plan B. If you choose to settle custody and residence, that's a huge part of an LSA...not a divorce...maybe this could be your preparation for Plan B...which IS about saving your marriage.

Do not doubt it.

Your own LBs can wipe out your feelings of love for her...if you justify her stuff as causing your stuff...not all about her actions, reactions, choices...it's complicated and overlapping...and yes, focusing on how important FC is to you and how she's currently going negative in the flow of meeting that one...good to know for you...where your heart is, what matters...and to make sure you're meeting that EN with a lot of focus and care.

You are. Watch your focus. When it goes all over her, where you have no control, then you aren't in respect, are not bringing reality (fantasy, instead) and are betraying your own goal. Stay aware, FT.

Plans matter...choose well, follow thoroughly...your personal recovery is solely in your own hands.

LA

I was not expecting this avalanche of emotions I am feeling today. I want so badly to throw in the towel. But I can't get myslelf too let go of the hope that my W will crawl out of the WW monster that I have been living with.

I have seen glimpses of my W in the last week. But the WW has returned in full force the last couple of days. It is because of her need to go see OM. She was planning a trip next week and I threw a wrench in those plans and this unleashed the beast. So the WW returned and has been on the rampage.

She did an excellent job convincing me that she was not worth all the effort. She told me she couldn't understand why I even wanted her after what she had done. She told me it would be another affair if not this one. She has done almost nothing in the time she has been home. She is still not working and does little to no upkeep with the house.

I know it was all babble but my daughter came into the room when we were talking. She proceeded to tell my WW that she did not want to move and she wanted all of us to live in our home forever. When this had little effect on my WW it was just so hard to justify my fight. She doesn't see the pain she is causing, she chooses to focus on her "happiness".

I have been praying for guidance. I just feel that the biggest mistake in my life is going to be made if I let her have the D without more of a fight. But the circumstances that she is offering are so hard to pass up.

Any thought are appreciated.
FT

Thank you LA for your guidance.

I did not sleep much at all last night.

I knew what I was doing last night was all wrong. I let her provoke me. She was relentless and I gave in. I knew it was all wrong. But I won't beat myself over what I should have done. I am focusing on the now.

I knew it was all part of her plan so she could leave again. When I asked her not to go she told me if I thought she was going to be doing something wrong I could go with her, I accepted the invitation. Next day she decided she wasn't going, and the next day was yesterday and now we are here.

I am pretty sure she will leave tomorrow since my father is coming to town and she wants nothing to do with any of my family. It will be a good excuse for her to leave sooner.

I will clean up the mess and move on.

Thanks,
FT

So you're giving up because your WW says so? If that's what you want. From a legal perspective however, promises out of her mouth right now don't mean squat when it comes to signing on the dotted line. You CANNOT base your decision on whether to let her go and the fact that she is "willing" to give up her children and the house. She can change her mind in a New York minute and there wouldn't be a thing you could do except fight it out in court... which is what will happen anyway.

No child support? She is OBLIGATED to provide for her children if she chooses to leave the home and not be the custodial parent. Why let her out of that? More reality she needs to experience.

You're right. You ARE playing right into her hands. Why not do a VERY VERY DARK Plan B? She hasn't had to experience the reality of life without you in it.

Your children need their father to STAND for his family. Quit reacting to her. Let her go and fall down on her own.

This can be fixed.

Princessmeggy,

When I said I will clean up my mess and move on. I did not mean I was giving up. I am going to continue to with the plan. But I am looking at doing my Plan B sooner rather than later.

I appreciate you taking time to help me. I knew it was wrong when I was doing it. I am sure that's why I didn't sleep. I knew I was reacting but she caught me off guard. She had been so nice and pleasant prior. The switch just got flipped a couple of days ago. I saw it coming but I didn't prepare myself for it.

I got caught up in the "good" that the WW was letting me see. I have learned a valuable lesson.The WW beast is still there and will be there until OM is out of the picture. I know he is the one feeding it.

I will go back to focusing on my kids. We have had lots of fun. Went mountain biking with son the other day. It felt good. It's something I used to do all the time. My daughter and I went hiking Tuesday and we had a blast. I feel great and receive compliments on my appearance all the time. I lost about 44lbs last year. I had started working on it prior to all this but the infedelity diet definately made a difference in the end and sped up the process. A lady at church asked me if my kids were my brother and sister. My WW was telling me the other day how ugly she feels. Not that it makes me feel better, and she is beautiful. I just think she is in a different place then me. And maybe not as happy as she thinks.

Thanks,
FT

If you are not ready for D, then DO NOT DO DIVORCE FT, I agree with everything these people have said about that.

If you're gonna fight, then FIGHT, and throw everything into so you don't have to look back and wonder if you could have done something else.

Good man! But before you go to Plan B make sure you're prepared... Plan B letter showing her the way home when it's time, finances in order, any necessary legal protection, intermediary available, good Plan A memories for her to miss... etc.

Tyk,

Wednesday night I was ready for D. She had me convinced it was best. The restless night I had after that proved to me it was a bad decision on my part to let her drag me down that path.

I let myself forget why I was fighting. This decision to fight is not just for me it's for my family, my kids that can't fight for themselves right now. I let myself forget that.

PM,

Tyk still has valid points about my Plan A. As much as I try and get her to do things with me or even go places with the kids and myself she has nothing to do with it. So my plan A is weak in my eyes and I have too question how effective it will be. Regardless I will continue to do the best I can. I will just focus on making myself a better husband and father and hope she notices.

Thanks to you all, I had a great nights sleep last night. I owe you. I had some peace of mind last nigth. I know I am doing the right thing by continuing the fight.

Thanks,
FT

I had a good weekend with my dad and stepmom. Kids had a good time with them also. Stepmom was and dad were both very supporttive and of course it feels good knowing they are there. I wish they lived closer.

WW left as expected on Friday afternoon. Didn't tell me where she was going and I didn't ask, it was obvious what she was going to do.

We didn't hear from her all weekend until late Sunday afternoon. She called too let us know whe was coming home but changed her mind when she found out my parents were still there. She ended up texting me that she would be there to send DS and DD off to school in AM.

I had already decided to take the day off. She did show up and went and tried to hide on my DS room. She was waiting for my parents to leave.

I really let my taker get the best of me. I reacted horribly and asked her why she was even there. I asked her to please leave. Told her we didn't deserve this cause we had done nothing to her. SHe said she hadn't done anything and left to take DD to school. Didn't see her until the kids came from school.

It is obvious she is being coached by her attorney. As she knows not to leave the house and to be there for the kids going and coming to school.

I ended up really letting my taker get the best of me again as she was leaving for the evening. I was doing some serious lovebusting. It's hard for me to keep my taker in check right now. I have to think that it's time to move to Plan B if I can. I know if I have another day like yesterday any Plan A work I have done will be useless. I was hoping to have a better Plan A then I have had.

Her continuing to see OM is not something I am dealing with very well. I have so much respect for all of you that endure this. I hope you can offer some advice to help. I feel like I am doing good and yesterday was horrible. I don't think I have done bad overall she is just not receptive to allowing me anything close to 15 hours a week.

It all just seems hopeless and I know it's not just me that feels this way. I read other peoples stories and their continuing to fight for and their recoveries of their marriage and family gives me strength to do the same for mine. Thanks to all of you for all you do regardless of wether you realize it you are an inspiration.

Thanks,
FT

You are WAY overdue for Plan B, ft. I would get your ducks in a row with a legal separation before this just explodes and there is no turning back. It is in NO ONE's best interest to continue allowing her to use your home as a flop house while she carries on like an alley cat in heat. It is detrimental to your mental health and horrific for your children to see this going on unabated. They need to be protected from her bad influence.

I see you wearing down fast from her abuse, and that will not only effect your mental health, but will cause you to hate her. Dr. Harley says once a BS grows to HATE the WS, it is hard to ever turn that around. You are all your kids have at this time, so they need you to be in good mental shape. That is why Plan B is called for. Continuing in this abusive situation decreases any chance of saving your marriage in the future, IMO.

Thought I would give some detail as to what I actually did yesterday. Maybe you all have some input on if it was as bad as I think it was.

WW quit her job in November. She has not workied since. She continues to live in the home. She makes it clear that I owe her for everything she has done...

I asked her that she help pay for living expenses and half of house payment. She feels she does not have too and refuses. She is content to hang out and come and go as she pleases.

I buy the groceries and do pretty much all the cooking, I can only think of one occasion in the last 2 months that she actually cooked. I have been doing pretty much all the housework. She has done some laundry and actuall did some cleaining last week. Not sure why, but I think it was because my dad was coming. She clearly stated that was not the reason.

She told me when she cam back from her last 2 week leave that she did want to work on the marriage. She did nothing to show that. And last week she said she does not want to work on it. She said she only said that because she wanted to come back to the home.

Do I continue to ask her that she contribute to the home? She has money to go out to eat and leave town for the weekend. But tells me she has nothing when it's time to maintain our home. It is defiantely a struggle for me on just my salary. I can't get a second job. I do have a goal set for my carrer this year and have something in work to help me support my family regardless of what happens.

I feel like I am being a doormat for her by saying nothing.

Thanks,
FT

ML,

It's good to hear from you again.

I will hash out my Plan B ASAP. I was hoping to get her to leave the home so I could implement Plan B. I don't like how yesterday went. She ended up threatening to run off with the kids at one point.

It's obvious her focus is not on the well being of the kids. I do fear what she will try and do. I know she wants to leave but has nowhere to go

She is basically leaving all responsibitly to me and dwelling on her fantasy. I feel like I have been enabling her to do this. She has no REAL LIFE issues to deal with. I wanted her to get a taste of reality yesterday.

Thanks again,
FT

You are being a doormat by treating her as a live in guest while she runs around like a single woman. That is not in her best interest, your best interest, and most especially, not your childrens best interest. You are ENABLING her to be her very WORST. That is not the goal or purpose of Plan A.

This is not about saying the right or wrong words, ft. This is about putting a stop to this abuse and protecting your children and your own mental health.

FT, I would get with your attorney and ask him how you get her out of there. Perhaps you can rent her a nice little room within walking distance of a Walmart, where she could get a job.

oh wait a minute, I see we have already covered this same ground before. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> And you are still in the same position?

ML,

I don't want you to think you are wasting your breathe telling me this.

I thought I was doing the right thing with Plan A. WW even had me convinced it was something she was receptive to for about a week. When I threw the wrench into her plans to take another leave she let me know what her true intentions were.

It has been ugly since last Wednesday. I will do all I can to get her to move on so I can implement Plan B. I have definately reached the point to where I have a deep resentment for her and what she is doing.

I know you are frustrated with me. But I truly wanted to do all I could in Plan A. Unfortunately I almost feel like it was more damage than good.

FT

I don't know fasttrack...I think that if I were you I'd play off REALLY nice like and encourage her to get out with your help....whatever it took...help her find a local cheap apartment and seemingly make her feel like you intend to allow her to ride off into the sunset with your cooperation and friendship intact. Acting like you think a separation may HELP you two reconcile and figure things out (she will go along with this thinking though she'll have no intention of actually working on it)

Then...I'd get her to sign a separation agreement. You could maybe find a draft one on the internet (hopefully from your particular state) loosely defining the relationship and seemingly indicating she doesn't have to pay child support (but don't state that as a "forever, she doesn't have to pay...just at that time...later, when she gets a job you will be entitled to it regardless of what your non-legal separation agreement says).

Then on move out day...I'd help her take as little stuff as possible and get her out. Once out...7-14 days later...after some, likely in complete vain, efforts at Plan A you give her the Plan B letter.

Cut her off financially and let her sink or swim.


Though it's typically inavisable to separate I think the threats she's made (stealing the kids, kicking YOU out of the house) and the constant abuse she's putting you through call for some action for you to protect your custody interests. At this point, protect the kids and get her out. Then...MB principles and God may work on her as nothing you are doing seems to be working anyway.

I fear also that the longer you wait to take action the more likely you will find yourself on the wrong end of some restraining order and the fight of your life to get back into YOUR home and back to your children. I see you don't have the funds to hire a lawyer and if she takes action first to get you out...you'll not have the funds to protect your legal interests. You AND YOUR KIDS...will be screwed.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

p.s. - you'll have email soon

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to update you all.

WW filed on Valentines Day and I was served on the 15th. She is still in our home and never moved out. I am doing all I can to keep the house and get primary of DD5 and DS13.

I am doing great! I am focusing on all the good things that have happened in my life since this all started and there are plenty.

WW is still angry with me for not walking away and giving her an easy D. I am not being an adult according to her evaluation of my actions. She still has lots of anger towards me and insists I am just trying to hurt her now. I am happy with all I have done in trying to keep my family together.

I hold no resentment towards her now and I am sleeping pretty good for the most part. Both DS and DD are doing better but still struggle on occasion. WW still chooses to talk about things in front of them or say things to them that she should not be saying. I feel that these things really hurt her relationship with them. I let my actions speak for me and really focus on not getting baited into arguments.

I never really got to Plan B. She decided after getting an attorney and talking to some others that her moving out as she planned was a bad idea.

I want to thank you all. You are all a blessing and continue to help me. I have still been reading here and it is always incouraging hearing the successes.

Thanks!
FT