New Twist for the Same Old Temptation - Ugh!

I couldn't have made this happen if I wanted to. New GF is working at the far end of the neighboring county, driving 40 miles of interestate each way during the day. To boot, her employer has lost the thread of how to operate the business successfully, but hasn't really been stung by it yet because GF is so effective that she's bascially carrying her employer and a co-worker on her shoulders. Two conditions she decided to try to remedy by putting out feelers locally. Would anyone believe that the company that bit is in a 10 floor office building along with XW's company? ... in a metro area of 3 million plus people. Frankly, I had no idea whether XW still worked there. Until on Sunday night we cruised by to familiarize GF with the route to her interview, and there was XW's convertible on the first floor of the parking garage ... workaholic as usual. So now I know she's still there. And I bet she remembers GF's physical characteristics and face enough to recognize her in the elevator, even though the only encounter (in a supermarket parking lot when XW was still in her car) was momentary and not up-close. If not, sooner or later the three of us would probably meet up anyway. This puts me in an interesting dilemma. The two CD-Rs that would poison XW's career (I had forgotten there were two) are now out of storage and in my hands. I had almost decided to return them to XW, feeling charitable, forgiving, and frankly having little further need for them. But now, XW has a potential to be a problem for GF and me. Dropping the CD-Rs to XW's boss would assure her swift removal, probably back to her hometown. At this point, I don't want to do it unless she makes trouble. But I'm not of a mind to return the CD-Rs now ... and lose the nuclear option. And I'm not happy about that. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited May 09, 2001).]

THERE you are! I've been wondering what happened to you.Oh, I cannot believe the coincidence of your X and GF in the same building. That's bizarre...I'm not sure what a CD-R is but it sounds like your underlying attitude is to use it as a threat or power tool over your X's head... correct me if I'm wrong here. Or, maybe you're actually acknowledging this behavior in your subject line: New twist for the same old temptation...What is the twist? Your suspicious and controlling behavior or something else?Pursue peace... do the right and honorable thing. Please, it'll save you heartache in the end, don't you think?Cheers! Glad to have you back!------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

Sisyphus,Glad to see you back! Wish I knew what to say. What makes you so sure that your Ex and GF are going to get into each others hair? If Ex really wanted to make GF's life miserable, wouldn't she have already done it? Seems to me that there are an awful lot of nameless faces in a ten story office building!Bumper

This issue rears its ugly head again.What is your purpose in trying to destroy your ex-wife's career? It seems to me that you still have unresolved anger issues.What is the worst thing that the ex could do to you or your new GF? Send you to Vietnam?Give it up. Destroy the information. Don't breathe another word about it to anyone.You are honor bound to do the right thing. IMHO, the right thing is to move on with your life, hold your head high, and be the man that you think you are.Obsession with hurting your ex diminishes you.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: What is the twist? Your suspicious and controlling behavior or something else?Pursue peace... do the right and honorable thing.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Suspicious and controlling? I've never told XW directly that I've got the disks, so I'm not doing anything controlling, and I've no need for suspicion--it's concrete, the family (including XW) has a well-documented history of quite public screaming matches and physical altercations (I once narrowly averted XFIL's arrest [numerous cops and the rescue squad had already shown up] in a restaurant brouhaha that would probably also resulted in XW's and XMIL's arrest as well). I want nothing more than peace. But sometimes you need a capacity for war in order to maintain peace. Poland was frequently overrun ... the better-armed and topographically-defended Swiss--never.Frankly, the scariest thing to me personally would be if XW and GF got together and compared notes ... but on the scary meter, it hardly registers ... I'd come out OK, and if I didn't; well, it's better that it happens earlier than later. GF has no interest in making XW's acquaintance ... she professes that anyway. Curiousity has a way of eroding that kind of resolve. The thing I really fear is XW either getting nasty to GF, or using the old "do it to yourself and blame the other" dirty tricks to claim harrassment, etc. XFIL was rather sophisticated in such matters, and quite litigious, and I'm sure he has much wisdom to impart. GF will be new in her job -- this kind of problem could derail her career there.XW and I are to stay away from each other, per a marital settlement agreement that I myself drafted (I am not sure if putting that in there was an effort to humiliate her for divorcing me, or a genuine recognition of the family's over-the-top traits--probably a bit of both), so sooner or later I'm going to be at that office building for whatever reason, and it's going to look like I'm out of line. What will I do when that happens--will I be unable to pick GF up or drop her off at her work--even for lunch? Will XW raise a stink? And what would I do if she did.I suppose at that juncture I would tell XW that I had the disks, and that she needed to cool it. And I would be prepared to follow through. But unlike my vengeful feelings of several months ago, I wouldn't be happy about it.

Sisy,I don't have any advice for you because I have never been in that predicament. Did your gf actually GET the job yet? Maybe you could avoid some unnecessary problems by picking a different place of employment all together. just popped in to say hello Dana

Sisyphus!!Missed you, man! Boy, am I glad to see you again. Now, let's get down to business.I'm going to make the following assumptions: you truly have no desire to tangle with or run into your XW, you don't really want to use the CD's, and your XW and her family tend to react rather violently to things. Given those three assumptions, I would suggest that you put the CD's into someone's possession whom you trust--someone who is your wise council. This will make it a little more difficult for you to "lay your hands on them" and you would have to go through a calm, clear-headed, smart, trustworthy friend who could advise you if it was appropriate or not to send them. Next, I would suggest that you explain the situation to your attorney who can explain the situation to her attorney who can explain the situation to her. Thus, she will not think you are lurking in the area if she happens to accidentally see you. Also, you two can work out a semi-reasonable agreement such as: when you come to the XYZ office building to pick up your GF for lunch, you will use the NORTH entrance which is the farthest away from the SOUTH entrance that your XW uses. Frankly, yes, it is irritating that the XW can not deal with this in a more mature manner, but she can't so stop expecting her to. Assuming that the third assumption is valid, RESIST TEMPTATION AND DO NOT CHECK UP ON YOUR XW! Do not look for her; do not talk to her; try to avoid bumping into her (on purpose) accidentally; etc. Purposely have your GF go to lunch at a time that DOES NOT coincide with your XW's lunch. Purposely have your GF go to and come home from work at times that do not coincide with the times your XW is coming and going. I realize that this may seem that you're letting your XW "control" when you come and go, but I'm talking about making the extra effort to avoid her and stay disentangled. It may feel like it's not fair that you have to go to all this, but trust me, the extra effort will be worth it and will keep things peaceful.Last but not least, I will leave it up to you to decide if it is morally correct to destroy your XW's career based on something that might or might not happen. Come on, Sisyphus! You know what is right--now DO IT! You are right that people can get unreasonable in a divorce situation like this, and your XW even has a tendency toward being unreasonable, but don't do a pre-emptive strike. That's why I suggest giving the CDs to a trusted advisor. Your judgement may not be all the clear all the time either, but the friend you trust can help you decide if the time has come to use your ammo or not. It really is good to see you again. I can't speak for everyone here, but I missed your rapier wit and superior debate skills (haha). Okay...I missed the way you make me think!!!! CJ------------------ Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Sis,Let it go. She left you, right? What would she care about your gf then? You two don't share kids if I remember correctly, you don't need to be in contact with each other anymore. She's your past, the Cd's are her past. Let it go and die the death it deserves. Destroy the Cd's - they are keeping you tied to her - even if it's a negative tie.Lisa (aka soon2b)

That's one characteristic of lawyers i don't particularly like:One of a laywer's learned success characteristics is to constantly retrieve the past to use in the present for their own purposes. (retrieving old decisions and writeups for use as precedent in the current case. that thinking tends to perpetuate the past, and slow down change.)This situation is not a business case, it is a personal case, and constantly bringing up the vindictiveness means that:1) you have not healed enough to be in a new relationship 2) you are being your own counsel, and have clouded your judgement due to always relying on someone else to decide the difficult issues (judge or jury).Your anger and your notion of your ability to abuse power or knowledge needs to be dealt with with a trained professional, (aka a head doctor!) Carrying around personal issues of vindictiveness will keep you from healing, and keep you from truly enjoying your life. You are creating your own problems.As a wise man once said to me, "Most people create their own problems." I have heeded that advice and try to live a life where i don't control/mess with other people just for my own feeling of self worth/importance.Time to consider whether you are holding yourself back, or helping yourself along.

I think I'll just stick 'em back in storage where they belong. My minister just says wait and see.Shrink has in the past said not to get locked in a downward spiral of revenge & reprisal.

Out here in midwest, small town, USA we do cross paths. There aren't 3 million people to camouflage us or a 10 story building full of people coming and going. Who cares?I agree with WIFTT, " 1) you have not healed enough to be in a new relationship"Ragamuffin

Just get rid of the CD's then you would feel no compulsion to wonder what to do with them! Isn't it so?And if she happens to hook up to your girlfriend, maybe you will actually BENEFIT from the knowledge your X can pass on! So she knows what the triggers are without pulling them herself!I don't know... I'm surprised your minister isn't taking the route of forgiveness and do the right thing - rather than have caution. That makes me wonder about him/her!Anyway, search your soul... search truth and GO DO THE RIGHT THING!Cheers!ps - controlling b/c you're even considering using these CDs as weapons. What could you have to gain except revenge from revealing them? ------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: ps - controlling b/c you're even considering using these CDs as weapons. What could you have to gain except revenge from revealing them?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, the point would be that they now do have a potential use other than revenge: an in terrorem deterrent to bad behavior; or ultimately a means of assuring XW's removal from the situation if she continues bad behavior even in the face of the deterrent. Before, when that potential use had yet to arise, I was on the verge of returning them to her, as I have been many times before. And if that's controlling, then I guess I'll have to cop to it. It's a hallmark of humanity to be able to control one's circumstances--or should I say a hallmark of any creature with a survival instinct, because animals dig burrows, etc. I always thought of controlling (in the psychologically bad sense) as preventing or causing an action in another to gratify onesself in an unreasonable manner: "don't go to the grocery store -- because I'm jealous and unreasonably fear you'll sleep with the bagboy". If you mean that having the means to protect myself and the willingness to use it is controlling, I'll just have to live with that. I don't expect bad behavior. But should it occur, I think I'm within my rights to use what I've got: first as a deterrent, then if that fails, as a final solution that would remove the problem.If I were going to use it out of destructive anger and a desire for revenge, or just tell her about it in order to cause her mental distress, I would have done it a long time ago. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited May 09, 2001).]

You are looking at the new version of the relationship with a competition/controlling belief, in that her actions will somehow have control/influence over your life, and you are waqnting to prevent that.Does she have vindictive tendencies? If so, she doesn't have to be dealt with a policy of nuclear deterrance.She can be dealt with by living a "good" life, free of anyone requiring to get even with you, or want to mess with you, because you are living the higher road on all accounts.generally, separation and time is required to heal situations like this, and once you are healed, you should be able to look back at yourself, and realize you want ed vindictiveness because you were still hurting. Otherwise, who wants to be vindictive just for kicks? (other than lawyers with too much time on their hands and big chips on their shoulders?)controlling means wanting to manipulate an other's actions to satisfy a reason for you. Your reason: new relationship protection, your method: information and intimidation.no, i disagree that is the hallmark of humanity to want to control OTHERS with means. CONTROL in the psych sense is not control of yourself, everyone has that, whether they choose to use it or not, that is not the issue. Control in this situation is manipulation of another for your own benefit, especially with a disrespectful judgement of expecting bad behavior.Sorry sys, you are are playing mind games with yourself, by dissecting the words to fit your own agenda.

Depends on how bad you want to watch the mushroom cloud.And how far you are away from ground zero.Took a long time for the residents of Bikini Atoll to move back. If you're going to initiate the reaction, first check for partner opportunities in Grand Forks.... Does yor GF express any interest in "Nuclear Winter"?Are all your ducks in a row?Fire in the hole!Listen, I could destroy the STBX's boyfriend's favorite pastime. One call to BSA could fix all that. It's fun to think about, but I think the anticipation is better than the execution. Keep the CD's. Enjoy them vicariously. Then ditch them & move on. Give them to her when you're ready to let go. Then GO.Besides, There's always a headwind in North Dakota. ------------------ nickit's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again [This message has been edited by c00ker (edited May 09, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If you mean that having the means to protect myself and the willingness to use it is controlling, I'll just have to live with that. I don't expect bad behavior. But should it occur, I think I'm within my rights to use what I've got: first as a deterrent, then if that fails, as a final solution that would remove the problem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I ask again. Is what she can do to you justify the "nuclear" option? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Frankly, the scariest thing to me personally would be if XW and GF got together and compared notes ... but on the scary meter, it hardly registers ... I'd come out OK, and if I didn't; well, it's better that it happens earlier than later. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You seem to want to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. Just because you are afraid they will compare notes?Give it up. Destroy the CD. If you really want to feel good about yourself, let the ex know you did it.

Hi Sisyphus,Good to hear from you. Well, you do have another option..... There is a new super hero.... The LB Fairy..... unlike the TFC, this one takes your requests and flies in from across the Pacific and LB's your XW according to you instructions and reports back to you. Put out a distress call to this LB Fairy. Right now she (oops - gave away a clue - this one's name is already known - no suspense here) is over on the GQII board giving LB's to some of our WS. In this obscure forum, the Ws will never know what hit them. Hey only joking of course, but on the serious note I would sure hate to see you hurt more. If you have a GF and are happy that should be where your concentration is. Don't worry about the XW. Trouble will find her in enough time. Take Care, L.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus: ...the family (including XW) has a well-documented history of quite public screaming matches and physical altercations (I once narrowly averted XFIL's arrest [numerous cops and the rescue squad had already shown up] in a restaurant brouhaha that would probably also resulted in XW's and XMIL's arrest as well). ...The thing I really fear is XW either getting nasty to GF, or using the old "do it to yourself and blame the other" dirty tricks to claim harrassment, etc. XFIL was rather sophisticated in such matters, and quite litigious, and I'm sure he has much wisdom to impart. GF will be new in her job -- this kind of problem could derail her career there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, you know the cast of characters here personally. Everyone here who seems to think you have no need of a deterrent does not. The context above, along with the existing court order requiring you to stay away from your ex, would seem to allow for some concern. I have no great faith in the legal system as an instrument of justice, and some means for protecting yourself does not seem unreasonable.Not to engender paranoia, but are you really sure that she doesn't know you have them? Maybe her good behavior and the long silence had to do with fear of what you might reveal. Didn't you finally tell someone about the family secret? If so, she knows you're not afraid to speak out about things if you deem it necessary.Having said that, I think that the concern of many here is because we do know you and the prior struggles you've had with vengefulness. My recommmendation would be to put the CDs well away and forget about them. Only get them out under dire necessity.I'd say that a time limit as to how long you'll retain them if no trouble occurs may be in order. So anyway, I'm somewhat of a lone dissenting voice here, but do share the concerns about the damage you may do yourself if still occupy yourself with thoughts of revenge.It is nice to see you back.Steve

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by grandpabri: I ask again. Is what she can do to you justify the "nuclear" option?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It would be necessary in the event of an attempt by XW to harrass new GF, especially if that effort imperiled GF's new job. I can't think of any other circumstances that would warrant its use.

Sis, I agree with the others, destroy the disks, move on with your life. If I remember, your x didn't want to be married to you and has a restraining order in place on you. Does that sound like she is still interested in dealing with you??????Also your your GF is a big girl, right? She can defend herself. You are going to draw yourself into trouble based on my experiences. I was always trying to figure out what x and om/h were upto and kept myself angry all the time. This resulted in me losing my cool and physically removing x from my house.I have pretty much let go, and don't worry too much about th e kids when they are over "there." My life ride is finally smoothing out.

This isn't advice, but if I were in your shoes, Sisyphus, I would put the disks away and do what your minister suggested: wait and see.Any pre-emptive use of those disks is likely to cause more harm than good, and I think you know that. Unless you are prone to impulsive acts of foolishness, I would think this knowledge would be a sufficient deterrent to the inappropriate use of those disks.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by RWD: If I remember, your x ... has a restraining order in place on you.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I keep having to see this one appear ... it's not the case. I put a sort of "mutual avoidance" paragraph into the marital settlement agreement. Just a mix of self-protection and heaping some humiliation on XW. The agreement was incorporated by reference into the final order, but there's not much there in the way of teeth...

UPDATE: GF has been made an offer she couldn't refuse. Staggering difference in earning potential, and her own bailiwick in a leading firm that didn't previously have capabilities in her subspecialty.So she's going to be in in same office building as XW all day M-F. Fortunately, their arrival and departure times are likely to be divergent, and XW doesn't venture as high in the parking garage as GF will be parking ... long ago demanded and got ground floor parking due to arthritis and absence of an elevator. And apparently got it back when she returned from Milan and got her job back. Luckily, departing cars don't even pass this particular spot, although everybody does pass it on the way in. She'll start in early June. And though they're giving her a couple of months to get up and running, she has at least a half-dozen deals she has already identified. No disloyalty to old employer in that ... jobs are either with companies that STBXEmployer doesn't like to work with, or are of types that turn STBXEmployer off. Bottom line: STBXEmployer wouldn't be STBX if she had looked at what GF was doing and found the value in it. Instead, while she scoffed at GF's initiatives, she and the other dinosaur in the office were getting a free ride on the income GF brought in, and ineptly chasing low-probability big deals that won't materialize. GF is tired of feeding two extra mouths.Once this is finalized, I'm torn between advising XW's attorney of the situation, or just keeping my yap shut on the chance that we can go along for a long time without anything hitting the fan. If nothing hits the fan, there's virtually no danger of the CD-Rs going in the mail...

Throw out the disks. Really. Whatever happens, happens.Just from reading this post it seems like you are building this up to be some kind of soap opera - "XW doesn't venture as high in the parking garage as GF will be parking ... long ago demanded and got ground floor parking due to arthritis and absence of an elevator. And apparently got it back when she returned from Milan and got her job back. Luckily, departing cars don't even pass this particular spot, although everybody does pass it on the way in."Sounds like you are really putting way too much thought into all of this. And unfortunately whether you see it or not, it is hurting YOU. I think I speak for many here in saying that is why several have posted telling you to destroy the cd's. Not for your wife's sake, but for yours.There isn't a need for them anymore - personally I didn't think there should have ever been a "need" for those cds. Get rid of them - don't worry about your XW and new GF - it is not worth the effort to think about it. Just enjoy your life and your GF.my $.02God Bless, Mike------------------ God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Remember Sis, if I'm the drama queen, I need my king, and you're it. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

We've talked about this before!You and I both have a habit of making more of things than need be... borrowing trouble... I, for one, am sick of living a life in constant crisis. I just want some peace -- don't you?So, toss those dam*ed CD's and be done with it, will ya!?

I agree with everyone's take.....let it go. I esp. agree with FaithfulWife's advice....My only comment is....don't do anything until something happens...IF something happens. Nothing may happen at all! There is no need to do anything now.Let it go...Aloha, Mrs.O

Hi Sisyphus,You'll have to forgive me because I'm only partly familiar with your situation. While I can see why people would tell you destroy them, I think putting myself in your place I would probably hold on to them too. I tend to agree with your concept of deterrence (so Reaganesque and I love old Ronald), but that's a concept of a much bigger scale. I agree with the idea of giving them to a trusted friend, someone who will not destroy them on their own beyond your wishes, but someone who is sensible to talk to.The problem with using them against her if there are any conflicts with the GF is that this person is ONLY your girlfriend, not fiancee, not wife #2. If something happened, and you destroyed your wife's career over it, that's a long-term hit. Then on top of destroying her, there is still no guarantee you're gonna be with this GF for the rest of your life either, and then you will have destoyed XW for nothing. So really think before you make a serious hit for the sake of someone else who may or may not be around for long anyway.Well, the other problem is that it's just not nice.Take care, ------------------ Kathy

Okay, I skimmed, so sorry if someone else already said this...QUIT MESSING WITH THAT ROCK. Next time it rolls downhill, it may just crush you and GF. If moving on is your goal...do that. EX will make her own mistakes...be happy that you have someone, try to avoid obsessing about EX. If you can't be civil together, then be civil apart.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by waiting_for_her: try to avoid obsessing about EX. If you can't be civil together, then be civil apart.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I wasn't obsessing until this came up. And still am not, although XW's eventual reaction is the big unknown for this new position. I'm willing to be civil--heck, I have no intention of being otherwise. I have a new life and a new GF. But XW is seemingly stuck in neutral. Grand plans of New York and Milan haven't been fulfilled, she's back where she was ... still overworked. Gosh, who to blame? Well, she never blames herself for anything ... so pardon me if I worry a little.

Tom! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>As a wise man once said to me, "Most people create their own problems." I have heeded that advice and try to live a life where i don't control/mess with other people just for my own feeling of self worth/importance.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Once again your insight is of a great help to me.[ok,so you got it from someone else,but hey who cares.] [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

I have learned so much from you and I do hope you continue posting so that I can read/lurk and keep on growing!Take it easy.Gina [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ "If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Hi Sis,Not sure if I have ever replied to you or not. I have been following your saga though.A couple of questions: Would your Girlfriend be working with or for your wife in the same company or just in the same building?If in the same building why even really worry they probably will not see each other and if they do it will just be in passing. My guess is this building is huge because it has an attached parking garage. If your Girlfriend is going to be working with the ex-wife than that is your girlfriend's choice. You really should not get involved. Your girlfriend, as my Mom would say, is "free, and over the age of 21 so do not worry about it". Or go with what my Gran would say "stop making mountains out of mole hills". I think you need to let your ex-wife go and stop thinking about her too much. You give her far more power in your life than you should. If you want to hang onto this mysterious CD that could ruin your ex-wife's life than do it...but you better make sure it will not destroy you in the process.

It's just the same 10 story building ... with a few floors between them. But GF will be driving XW's old car, which XW gave me in the divorce. A common enough model, but with a few conspicuous quirks (noisy A/C compressor, ever-so-slightly askew front bumper [courtesy of XW's pre-glasses Mr. McGoo syndrome]) ... it's likely XW will recognize it. We want to get GF out of her present car ... and living downtown, I'm in no hurry to get into somthing new. I'm getting more relaxed about it. The reality of it is sinking in ... I'm comfortable with my situation, and GF is comfortable with hers. Whoever said she's a big girl and can take care of herself has no idea how right they are. 11 years of hanging around volatile Colombians just had me unjustifiably walking on eggshells. And there are more and gentler ways of handling trouble than just snuffing XW's career. It's quick and clean in theory, but in practice even if it never caused me a problem it would still be disproportionate. If XW wants to keep spinning her wheels where she is, why should I get her thrown out of the quicksand?

Sis -Hello again! I find youir posts intriguing and decided to reply yet again, because it seems to me that you like being a party to the sopa opera. I've said it before - all hail the king of drama! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

A few questions - Does your GF know about your concerns? What is she saying? I am leaning to the side that she either she really doesn't know since she is going forward and working there, or she thinks that you are just creating a bigger problem. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

How serious are the two of you? Are you really concerned that she and the XW will meet up and explode? What type of individuals are these two? I recall a posting of yours that I responded to regarding a sighting? Did your GF actively seek out this building to work in? Sounds somewhat suspicious to me if she did. To that effect, is she someone you really want to be with? Better to find out now, huh? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

As you can see, there are many paths that this soap opera can go down, the end of the road is what you create. What is it that will make you happy? And why, oh why, do you insist on pushing that damned rock for eternity? Galetea ------------------ The only way out is to go through - Robert Frost

Right...like I said..I skimmed. Sorry, but I do like your moniker! We signed the (sloppy as all hell) papers yesterday. Yes, your Ex is spinning her tires, to be sure. Wonder what's up with that? Take care.

The building wasn't sought, but the job was ... the location is absolutely a twist of fate.GF is reasonable to a fault. XW is less predictable these days, especially as the tone of the divorce seems to have changed from her being cheerful to be rid of me, to astonighingly avoidant, and (I would presume) fearful and angry after her secret was outed. GF won't be seeking XW out. Professes that she wouldn't recognize her ... and that she wouldn't want to know XW, but I think there would inevitably be a flash of mutual recognition ... say in the elevator. What happens then is anyone's guess, but with risk 99 to 1 that XW would be the first and only one to cross the line. If I were present, there would obviously be recognition ... again, we wouldn't be the ones getting out of line. GF and I are quite serious. I don't honestly think this will come between us. Butterflies are dying down. It does remain a residual concern, though.

The GF's negotiations with the new employer are drawing toward a successful conclusion. The right job. In the wrong place. So it looks like this thing is going to happen. I'm going to have to roll with it. I just have to try to get out of the mode of thinking that even the slightest affront to my girlfriend can be responded to only by mailing the CDs. I feel like the XW long ago used up any slack she had with me on a personal level (on the financial side, I've been fairly forgiving). Problem is, I'm at a loss for ways to deliver lesser consequences. And I would like to plan ahead for this rather than get caught flat-footed.

OK, I'm gonna bite... what the heck is on those CD-roms? You're one curious dude Sisyphus... I see when you respond to the spy-ware stuff and how to do effective surveillance and stuff... very curious to understand what makes you work the way you do...?Cheers!ps - does this have to do with that family secret thing you leaked out of an anonymous email account or was it one of your X's email accounts? That was a while ago you were talking about that. Anyway... just curious BUT I'm aware that curiousity killed the cat.------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>You're one curious dude Sisyphus... I see when you respond to the spy-ware stuff and how to do effective surveillance and stuff... very curious to understand what makes you work the way you do...?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, the first time I researched what one person could record about another person's keystrokes was at XW's behest (in response to an offhand reply of mine that I had read about such programs existing) ... she thought her boss might be doing that kind of thing to the employees. When I saw the question on the boards I just updated what I already knew about and responded.As for the CDs, they are a personal backup of every relatively recent piece of work done by everyone in her office. Although invaluable to someone in her professsion as a morgue, or as a jumping-off point for doing similar pieces of work, they're not really valuable to a third-party ... not quite templates (require significant updating), but much easier than starting from scratch. Although they are (or were) "confidential", any secrets they once held almost certainly have no real value now. Nonetheless, they were obtained by her clandestinely. And boss would not be happy...I outed the family secret by anonymous snail-mail to the only person believed to be in dire need of a warning. Without identifying XW, but necessarily identifying the alleged perp. No e-mail misbehavior was ever undertaken. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited May 21, 2001).]

Negotiations are right at the brink... (I'm trying to make GF insist that certain verbal elements of the employment deal show up on the offer letter). In case of a dispute, I'd rather her not have to try to prove her case from their old e-mail threads.As to what happens when she actually shows up, I'm taking solace from the title of the new Martin Lawrence/Danny DeVito movie: "What's the Worst that Could Happen?"

Done deal! I guess now the real fun begins.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>(I'm trying to make GF insist that certain verbal elements of the employment deal show up on the offer letter). In case of a dispute, I'd rather her not have to try to prove her case from their old e-mail threads.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't get it... what verbal elements of the employment deal are you talking about? I'm an HR person and haven't a CLUE as to what you're talking about but it interests me so if you'd be so kind as to clue my block-brain in...The "real fun" begins... I think someone else said it.... You are the King of Drama... and I can't get the visual of you out of my mind that you once painted on the boards here... you're Niles and your X is Marys... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

too funny. Is that true?Cheers!------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

p.s. So who's your GF like, Daphne?------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

There were graduated levels of commission ... percentages went up with performance. I wanted it clear that for calendar year '01 she would recieve the increases for hitting 7/12 of the annual targets. And that the target for the trip bonus would also be 7/12 ... and so on down the line. I had her raise it, and it was agreed to verbally, but I wanted it in the documents in case the guy who hired her gets hit by a train or turns out to be a weasel. Everything else I targeted has already been handled, there was just this last bit hanging out. But much e-mail has gone back and forth on the subject, and GF feels sufficiently reassured, and she's going ahead without the changes in the offer letter.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: p.s. So who's your GF like, Daphne?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK, Niles and Maris only insofar as he was henpecked, and she was domineering though sickly and weak--using the latter to her advantage whenever possible (don't mean to sound too harsh--if I had been dealt psoriatic arthritis, I would have used it where I could too). I'm 6', brown hair, hazel eyes, 195 lbs, and these days almost buff. The only celebrity I've been compared to is Paul McCartney, but not since he started looking old in the '80s. New GF is nearly my height, has light brown curly hair, and is also approaching great shape. Flashes of Nicole Kidman, but more outgoing.XW ... 5'2", dark hair, petite, say a latin looks and personality cross between Katie Couric and Laura San Giacomo's character on "Just Shoot Me". More frequently exhibiting the latter's self-righteousness (whether appropriate or not) than the former's perkiness. Latin temper, father-fixated, very judgmental. One of the big rifts was that I had said something about him that was intended to be good, but which backfired. He was accused of fondling a patient, and I told XW that it's crap unless more come out of the woodwork. Then a dozen did, and he avoided conviction by tendering his MD license. So she knew he had been judged by me and found wanting. And since I was judged by her as inferior to him, this was something that ultimately couldn't be tolerated. BTW, he was not the family member that needed to be warned about (yup, more than one like that).

Ok, wow... so you've just blown my mental picture of what you look like out of my mind. That's wild. Ok, I'll adjust, I'll adapt... just give me a minute.Anyway, do you write? I mean you can spin a good story... You should submit to a periodical or something... maybe you already do. Very entertaining.I can see your "suspicious" nature about preventing yourself from getting screwed has carried over into your GFs relationship - to a good point. She should be protected but I can't imagine thinking through all the detail that you must go through on a daily basis!Cheers mate! (nope, I'm not from down under... just like the phrase) [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

I think you were the person who hinted a few months back that I was trying to get into my ex-husband's business by telling him what I knew of something that had happened to his love interest.And now I see that you had thought of doing something similar. I am not being critical but I felt that you really didn't seem to understand what I was feeling at the time. In fact, I saw some other posts at the same time where you mentioned that you had some information about your ex and you were considering using it.I can understand your sadness and feelings. However, I would hope that you would not be too quick in judging others who have similar ones.May God bless you through your trials.Martha

Where's the similarity? I'm protecting the woman who is now mine, not undercutting a rival for my XW's affections. I never even determined whether there was a terminal EA or PA with my XW (I know there was at least an EA early in our marriage).

You think you know my reasons, and I think I know yours. Although we both may not be right.This is a board in which we should try and try to lend each other support although we may have differences of opinion. We are all human and have suffered greatly at the hands of our betrayers and thier lovers.I felt that you were wrong to judge me so harshly. I in turn will try not to judge you so readily.

I went back and read over what I had written to you. As with most e-mail, it probably was rougher on the recipient (you) than the writer (I) intended. Especially since the issue had much less emotional content for me than you. I hate it when that happens!Months ago, I might have used those CD-Rs purely for spite ... now it would take quite a lot of provocation. When nothing that could happen would make me use them, I'll likely send them back to her. But not yet.

WOW! Now THIS - what you two have just demonstrated - is an excellent model of respectful conflict resolution and follows some basic guidelines:1) focus on the issue not the person 2) specifically state what you've observed 3) ask for feedback 4) accept differences of interests 5) move towards results or peacefully agreeing to disagreeCool, thanks!Cheers!------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

Thanks for the replies. I may not have done right thing in the given situation, but I knew my ex probably knew what had taken place. In fact, he had kept a lot of information from me when he was going through the affair.I later told him I was sorry for what was said and I felt for her in that she had to go through that terrible ordeal. He told me to forget it. When I told him what I knew, he apologized to me for all the terrible things he had said to me during our marriage. That at least was a start.The last time I talked with him by phone. He thanked me for sending him a check that was part of the settlement and started the conversation by saying he was sorry to bother me. So he's much kinder now than we were still married. I guess he's trying to make up for all the pain he put me through. He may in fact be married to her now.Will the pain ever go away?Thanks.Martha

Well, it's GF's second day at the new place. I drove her in yesterday, and as I went around the block to go back home, XW's car was on the 1st level of the parking garage. At quitting time when I picked GF up, I may have glimpsed XW through the expansive plate glass windows of the lobby ... I was not yet in front of the building, and was driving GF's car, but I saw a familiar shape approach the door and turn back to go out the back of the building ... casually ... like a last minute decision to favor driving over walking--probably to an early comfort-food dinner at a very traditional cafeteria. Almost certainly she did not see me. She could not have predicted my presence, nor was I in a familiar vehicle ... and I wasn't even immediately in front of the lobby yet. Thankfully, GF and I both have cell phones to minimize my need to go in and find her and her need to wait around downstairs.If it was XW, unlike post-divorce encounters where she took great pains to dress to the nines, she was a notch below Friday casual (on a Wednesday?). But the Gap jeans, running shoes and untucked solid-color Polo look was characteristically hers. As was the gait.What did I feel? Shock. Relief that she went the other way. Curiousity. Worry that GF's cover would be blown incredibly early. GF took a little longer coming out. I didn't mention what I'd seen, as I wasn't certain, and I felt it would seem obsessive. While there are, of course, nostalgic feelings (that take nothing away from GF--they're just there), the overarching concern is that I don't want a "This building isn't big enough for the both of us" situation to arise prior to GF being well-settled in her job (which she feels perfectly suited for already--computer "training" yesterday was almost more of a case of her training them even though she had never seen the software package before). Because I know how I'll be tempted to settle that one. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited May 31, 2001).]

I'm still thinking you have lingering feelings for your Latina X... but perhaps that is perfectly normal post-divorce. I don't know how I'd feel given the same scenario. Thanks for your honesty and sharing your vulnerabilities. I appreciate seeing how you're growing through this time...------------------ We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

Sisyphus,I'm with OvrCs on this one. This has been going on for a while, and you still seem preoccupied with your ex. Try reading this thread as though you weren't involved, as though a total stranger had posted those thoughts. It makes the reader wonder, "When is it (last marriage) going to be over?" How much longer is that ghost going to influence your life? What you are describing in yourself is a preoccupation with your ex, and whether you care to recognize it or not, it is at the expense of of the present and your present girlfriend. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you can put this matter to rest any time you choose. For all the agg you have put yourself through with this, it is time to burn that CD-R. You haven't given us any reason to believe that your Ex wants to scuttle your new relationship, or that she wants to hurt you anymore. Your thoughts run to "well what if she does etc., etc."With one foot grounded in yesterday and the other set on tomorrow, there is a pretty good chance that you are P***ing all over today.Time to live and let live.Prayers and stuff,Bumper

I'm at this stage preoccupied only with my XW's capacity for mischief, and the surefire but disproportionate response I can launch. Otherwise I'm pretty relaxed. I'm sure this will resolve itself. How many among you would be comfortable with the situation we're facing (GF and me)?

Today I received a credit from one of my Visa cards for a $2,300 payment she was required to make under the terms of the settlement agreement. She paid it in February, but to an obsolete address, and it had vanished. I somehow expected assistance from her side in clearing this up (what kind, I dunno, maybe a copy of the front and back of her canceled check?), especially because the bank involved was taking so long to investigate. I asked her attorney for it, but heard nothing back. In truth, time resolved it without her cooperation, and I shouldn't resent its absence, but I still do ... to a greatly diminished extent. No incidents for GF at the office ... all is calm for the moment.

Another bizarre encounter. GF and I were window-shopping, having just finished dining outdoors at a local pedestrian mall. I saw her brother there (former big-league banker now day-trading out of a gloomy 1/1 apartment). I spoke. "Hey <name>!" He ignored. Later we saw him again on the other side of the mall walking past us in the other direction as we unlocked our bikes. This time nobody spoke. I'm getting a little static from her attorney. She's asking to be off my checking and credit card account with my credit union. For that I need to submit a new application minus her. She needs to send me a release of her interest in the account -- one she's had in hand for almost a year. Without it I can't do what she wants me to do. But he wants me to do my part first, which I can't do without her doing her part. Impasse. Anne Robinson would dispatch this guy in 10 seconds.I could just close the accounts, but I would be unnecessarily inconvenienced in doing so. So I'm just going to wait and see if the other side will do their part or not.New GF is fitting in well at the job in XW's office building. Still no encounters. Once new GF has a deal go through (proving her value), I'll feel more confident rocking the boat with XW over these last remaining things. Until that time, I feel GF is vulnerable ... the new employer wouldn't feel that economic pain if he fired her.

Well, the encounter happened. Where we thought it would, in the elevator. XW was already in there when GF boarded. XW didn't recognize GF (who was dressed professionally--at the parking lot encounter she had been very much in mufti). GF didn't recognize XW, but was standing behind her and put it all together from some physical cues; with her suspicions confirmed as she saw XW move out ahead of her. GF didn't flinch. GF is kicking a** and taking names at her new job. Very shortly she will have a completed deal under her belt. She acted quickly, and many deals may come to fruition when principals she introduced to each other meet at an upcoming convention. Management made her run a lot of training tapes when she came aboard, but now they're watching her do her thing and wondering how she does it. Of course, it helps that in this new office there is absolutely zero expertise in her subspecialty. All-in-all, a good situation. So, we've proven that without more, XW won't recognize GF, and we've also proven that GF has the sang froid to act natural when encounters happen. Another hurdle cleared...

Great news!So, XW is out of the picture and you've got a rising star on your hands... out of curiousity, what is GF's subspeciality? And, by the way, how are you doing professionally, personally, spiritually, emotionally and all that...?Cheers! Nicole------------------ As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another... Prov 27:17

XW's attorney seems to have a small piece of a brown dwarf between his ears. Since Feb, I've been waiting for a release to get XW off my credit union accounts. Then I can submit a new application that will relieve her of liability as well. Problem is that the release specifically talks about not relieving her from liability ... but it's only one part of the package I'm going to submit. XW and XW's attorney have apparently lost the paper a couple of times, then just cavilled about signing it. Nor is the '99 1040 signed by her, for that matter. Oh, well, I'm not getting PO'd, I can wait (but GF is a bit impatient). I've provided the form ... filled out and ready for signature and notarization ... yet again, in response to the atty's latest letter. Since he keeps losing it, I also copied XW with an easily printed version of it in e-mail. GF and I have been going to her office for a couple of hours the past few Saturdays. Spotted XW's car parked in the garage on the way out just over a week ago. Ironically sporting a license-plate frame advertising the local Swedish repair shop. Meaning she's no longer using the dealer, and also that a long-held idea of hers has gone by the wayside. When the same thing happened with her old car, she demanded I go get the $0.99 plain frame back from the shop ... for paranoia/security reasons she didn't want identifying features on the car. I started it, but she turned it into a religion. If she saw that GF and I had signed in with the guard that day, she hasn't made a peep. GF and I chose Saturday because Sunday is XW's usual day ... but apparently XW is even more workaholic than usual lately. I just still can't afford to rock the boat too much ... GF hasn't had a deal go through yet, although one is mere angstroms from closing. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 10, 2001).]

Why do you go with GF to her work place? Did you do this before? Anyway, what is up with that incompetent atty? Whatever.So, does your XW know that your GF works there yet or not? Has SHE actually seen you? Wonder what her reaction to that will be...?Cheers!------------------ As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another... Prov 27:17

In the past, I often kept XW company when she worked late or on weekends. I had a notebook computer and often took work with me that I had transferred from my desktop computer. Later, the notebook became inadequate to the task and I did that less (XW actually cited it as a reason we grew apart, and I could kick myself for not being more aggressive about upgrading or something--I did upgrade the data transfer [from floppies using PKZIP for compression to ethernet], but by the time I did so, the notebook itself was inadequate). I just did the same for GF. I doublt XW would consider it out of the ordinary if she learned of it ... except that I'm there and not in one of the hundreds of other buildings in the area!

I'm struggling again. Another milestone is coming up. Unless I have been grossly misled, the final order was entered last July 19 (never did receive a copy, and I haven't wanted to go get one--although I suppose it might be something else that would bring closure). This brings me to the point of wanting to send an anniversary present to her boss. I also have an innocuous item of hers I could package so that it would look like the plutonium ... boss would hand it to her and it would likely be all she could do to avoid flipping out. Or I could just sent the same thing to her attorney. She'd probably get the point. Fortunately, I'll see my shrink in about a half-hour for my regularly-scheduled appointment.

What did your shrink say?Is your surprise for her boss those CDroms again? I thought you were going to get rid of them? Or give them to someone so they wouldn't be a temptation.I'm unclear... your divorce was final from last year 19 July and that's the anniversary coming up? What's happening...? You sound pretty sad.What is this gift you have? Forgive my ignorance here...------------------ As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another... Prov 27:17

Sisyphus, Just a suggestion. I would send her flowers with a card with only your name- no message. It will drive her crazy wondering what you are thinking. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Plus, it would be a nice thing to do and would maybe help you put this behind you. Sometime you've got to figure out some way to keep from thinking of your XW so much. Of course I haven't figured that out for myself - so if you do-pass it on!!! I'm afraid it will hurt your new relationship if you don't. She sounds very important to you. And I know she would love to have you 100% to herself. So go for it!!Hang in there.SoSad.59[This message has been edited by SoSad.59 (edited July 14, 2001).]

I'm mailing the innocuous disk to her lawyer as an item I am returning it to her. With any luck, she'll have a sudden flash of insight as to her vulnerability and it will drive her to be more forthcoming on the final details of wrapping up the divorce ... she and her attorney been a bit of a pain lately, and it's been a thorn in the side of my new relationship, although my GF is very patient. I wouldn't think of her so much if she'd cooperate in finishing things up. It's like the time Frasier loaned Roz money, and suddenly her every expenditure was under his microscope. As long as this stuff is outstanding, she has to be on my mind. After church Sunday, I joined a few members looking at an old masonic building a couple of blocks away that may be donated for conversion into a church. As it happened, at the other end of the block is a branch library in whose lot I noticed a car similar to XW's when I passed. The on-street spot I got was near the library. Later when I went to feed the meter, I was unable to resist walking into the lot to satisfy my curiousity. Yep, it was hers. If things were wrapped, I don't think I would feel the need to do that.

Sisyphus, I understand what you mean about your STBXW dragging things out. It does keep you from totally moving on. I almost wonder if they do it on purpose. It feels like they like keeping one foot in your life. And it is so darn frustrating! I don't have any more advice than everyone has given here. But I do think it is great that you are mailing the disk. Regardless if it affects your wife's or her lawyer's actions, YOU did the right thing and acted with integrity. Good Job. ------------------ Character is determined by what you do when no one is watching.

I think you give me too much credit. It's a veiled threat that I might mail the real thing somewhere else...I know if she gets it she'll take it seriously ... there was only one warning before I dealt with the family secret problem. I see no reason to deliver more than one warning ... and it needn't be spelled out in plain english. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 18, 2001).]

Well, the innocuous decoy/warning disk should have reached her attorney yesterday, but I didn't hear anything back. A little of the sting was taken out of the anniversary of the final order by the discovery that the date was actually the 18th. So the anniversary had passed without my even realizing it. Guess that's one anniversary I don't mind forgetting! [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

On the other hand, yesterday the mindless state department of revenue sends me a letter saying the car I'm now driving changed hands for less than 80% of its NADA book loan value, so they need (within 30 days) a verification of the sale price or they want to charge me the tax on that plus a 2x penalty, which is a hefty chunk of change. It's not like this wasn't covered at the county tax assessor's office when I did the title transfer and got the tag. The car changed hands for $10, incident to a divorce. I don't owe them squat. It's just an unwelcome reminder.Fortunately, I had taken a belt-and-suspenders approach to the transfer, and obtained a bill of sale (which I thought was near-worthless at the time, but only requested as copious documentation of the transaction) from the XW; because that was one of the documents needed to prove the amount of money that changed hands (otherwise, I would have to go back and ask XW for more paperwork--time-consuming at best). So I included that, and filled out the state's little form, and threw in a copy of the marriage license and the notice of the final dissolution hearing, as well as an explanatory letter. Hopefully, they'll go away. The situtation did bring all of the old anger to the fore, and before we fell asleep I described in detail to GF what indignities I had in store for XW if she doesn't straighten up and fly right with this remaining paperwork. I've decided there might be some mileage still remaining in the family secret, possibly working my way one by one from the least-distressing additional relative to have know about it to the most distressing, before reaching the Gotterdammerung final solution of sending the CD-Rs to the XW's boss. Of course, it's likely I won't have to go that far. The original (and quite limited--just one person who badly needed to know it, and whom I basically had a moral duty to inform) outing of the family secret produced a flurry of cooperation, including more than $5,000 that was owed me (but it also severed the last direct communication, we now communicate only through XW's 40-watt attorney).Although unpleasant for GF to hear, she appreciated the openness of me confiding in her, and she expressed her support of whatever I need to do to get this thing wrapped, along with her belief that I was good, and would not overstep. She did want me to talk to our minister before going further. ***Edited for German spelling error[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 24, 2001).]

What a pain...Your GF sounds amazing... BUT, if I were her, you may have placed a "check" in my system that one day if I don't "behave" you too might blackmail me with some information. Could impact trust.I like her response though... talk to your minister, but even more importantly, talk to God... what would Jesus do in your situation?------------------ As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another... Prov 27:17

J.C. was not all about sweetness and light, he could pick up a stick and do some damage if principle required it. But he also judged not on appearances, but on reality; which is why some high priests came under fire while a tax collector and supposedly unchaste woman sat at his table. And he routinely exposed people's secrets.One thing's for sure: you won't win a popularity contest following a WWJD policy. His own got him killed. My challenge is to allow God to guide what I do, and then expose or keep silent not on the basis of what would be advantageous to me or satiate my anger, but on true judgment. It's not easy.

I expected to hear something by now. But I've heard nothing. XW is apparently obtuse to the implications of the disk I mailed her lawyer. I'm feeling like it may be time to drop the hammer.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus: I'm feeling like it may be time to drop the hammer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What on earth for, Sisyphus!?!?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume: What on earth for, Sisyphus!?!?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You're saying you're oblivious to my motivations? I don't think that's true. You're asking how I can do such a thing? I have to ask myself how I've held back for so long, given the provocations I've endured. It gets to wearing thin. I suppose I could try the phone, or walk right in to her office with the paper I need her to sign, bold as brass. Her attorney seems pretty much a porch dog, so I needn't pay him much mind. So now I ask myself: "Why go to the trouble?" And I don't have any good answer. So I think maybe it's time.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus: So now I ask myself: "Why go to the trouble?" And I don't have any good answer. So I think maybe it's time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I think you're asking for more trouble than that if you play the nuclear card. And once you've played it, you will no longer have it for when you really need it. [This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited July 24, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume: I think you're asking for more trouble than that if you play the nuclear card. And once you've played it, you will no longer have it for when you really need it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just a hiccup. I was just letting it get to me yesterday, and it made me cranky.

This afternoon I got a fax from her attorney requesting my cooperation in sending the IRS a letter that will cause a $4,000 overpayment she made with respect to the '99 tax year to be applied to her account alone. It appears that the 1040 was indeed sent, I just wasn't told. She's also due a refund for 2000, and it will come to me. I've been asked to turn it over to her as well. I've already prepared the necessary letter to the IRS and sent it off, along with an additional address change form just in case the first one didn't go through. Her attorney also asked what I would be doing about getting the XW's name off the joint bank and credit accounts, which I can only do once I get her form back. So I added this to the e-mail back to him that included attached copies of the letter and address change form: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>With regard to the <bank name> issue, is there something about "Receipt of this item properly executed and notarized will facilitate my individual reapplication for the joint <bank name> credit services I currently utilize" that is unclear?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I'll keep y'all posted...

Well, her refund check came to me today ... address was OK ... I'll endorse and send it on to her, not a problem.[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 26, 2001).]

And I assume in your correspondence with your X's attorney you indicated what you needed as well. Also, by your acting in faith and in good speed, maybe they'll show appreciation by giving you what you need.Here's hoping!Cheers!------------------ As iron sharpens iron, so does one wo/man sharpen another... Prov 27:17

Actually, I dropped by her building to leave the check with the concierge and learned she had apparently moved out. So it later occurred to me to trade it for the release I need. I sent XW's attorney a two sentence e-mail (with an image of the check) and copied her: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>The check came in. Has your client sent me the release?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not quite explicit about the quid-pro-quo, but there's no way he's going to miss the implication.Having this relatively innocent lever to get what I want, need, and am due certainly has done a lot to ratchet down my residual anger...But I must admit that it did occur to me that when you're facing expenses from changing digs ... it would be a terrible time to get fired. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 27, 2001).]

I haven't heard back yet, but a further idea came to mind, although I'm not sure why I want this ... not really sure if it's for me or for the XW. The bottom line to this thought: Insist XW pick up the check from me in person. I just want us to look each other in they eye one more time. No real expectations from her, no real plan as to what I might say. Just maybe some of that strange thing called closure.Sanity check, anyone?

Sisyphus...You still want care... it seems you want to see if she shows any remorse or softness towards you? Maybe you wouldn't want a relationship anymore, but you want to end in peace, no?Take care and mind your expectations... you likely will NOT get what you want. If you can let it go AND THEN it happens how much sweeter will it be?Time has to heal the wounds my friend... just keep praying for closure in a way that you can sense it. Let it surprise you rather than try to control it (i.e. face to face meeting). Prepare yourself for the time it may (no WILL) happen.Okay, what would you do if she did show remorse? What would you do if she did say, sorry? What would you do if she did show some signs of tenderness?Would you treat it respectfully or with a "I told you so" attitude?Care my friend... nicole

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: Okay, what would you do if she did show remorse? What would you do if she did say, sorry? What would you do if she did show some signs of tenderness?Would you treat it respectfully or with a "I told you so" attitude?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I believe I would try to attain a mutual benediction of some kind. Although I don't regret it, I know I chose to do something that likely hurt, or at least embarrassed her. And she chose to sever all contact and make both our lives more difficult than they needed to be. Probably best not to try to force it though.[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited July 30, 2001).]

GF and I have had a discussion, in which one idea came up that I need some feedback on. GF thinks I might appear unannounced at XW's office ... with the paper that I need signed, the check that she wants, and the CD-Rs of sensitive material.If I get my signature, XW would get the check and the CDs. Otherwise, she gets no check and boss gets the CDs.I find it an elegant potential solution, but it is also a rather brutal sudden challenge to XW's autonomy, and I question whether she deserves to be treated that way, and am also afraid she would respond unfavorably. And then I'm not sure I could go through with the tough part. But it's almost all that's left to do. Responses from her side have not been forthcoming, even though they know I have the check in hand. Any thoughts?

You've already got some leverage with the check, so I would hold back on the CD-R. If showing up like you propose is a violation of your agreement (or restraining order or whatever), then trying to force your XW's hand that way already exposes you to some risk. If I were you, I think I would want to hang onto the CD-R as a possible means to counteract that.

Good point, GDP. Just for the record ... there never has been a restraining order. There is a bunch of language that I drafted (in terms so tight they border on humiliation) that neither side would bother the other. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>. Neither party shall bother, harm, molest, compel, or endeavor to compel the other to cohabit or dwell with the other, nor shall either party harass, threaten, or make unwanted contact with the other by any means including in-person visits or loitering in or around the other party’s residence or business premises, phone calls, faxes, mail, e-mail, pages or other forms of communication electronic or otherwise. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Obviously, I'm going to violate that, but I think I can use the defense of necessity. And if not, I don't really care anymore.

Sisyphus,I've watched your frustrations throughout your thread. Our circumstances are somewhat familiar because I understand the need to put things to rest. I waited three years to retrive my court ordered list of property. In 1999 things were partially dropped off on my terrace, then he did another partial drop off in my attorney's parking lot (quite humiliating). In 2000 I went to the x's residence. retrived some more (everything wasn't in the garage waiting for me. Went back to court in June for a "Show Cause" hearing to find him guilty of contempt. The judge gave him one more chance. On July 5, 2001 I recieved the balance. Well almost the balance. I've sent my attorney an "I FOLD" fax.All in all I understand your frustration of not having things wrapped up and how far someone will go to mess with you.

The challenge here is just to hold my tongue ... the first party to follow up an unanswered communication ... has blinked, and is ripe to have advantage taken of them. The ball is in their court right now, and I can't go chasing after it.

Or can I? The situation is starting to burn me up a little more again ... the satisfaction of holding that check is beginning to wear off a bit. Last night GF suggested I write XW's attorney a letter saying basically that I'm "closing my file" on the matter, and leaving her hanging out there. IMO, that's not any sort of real prod ... they know that whenever they do get in touch, I'll deal with them. But it got the wheels turning ... it's tempting to write XW's attorney (copying XW directly) and suggest that he's dragging this out and giving her bad advice just to run his billable hours up ... sort of the ultimate insult. Another alternative would be to call her day-trader brother (the one who's local, and acted like he didn't see me) and open with "Your sister owes me a document" ... no "hello" even ... so he has to hear it before he gets a chance to hang up. Maybe right around 9AM when the market opens, or 3:45, when the market is about to close--so it might screw up a trade and cost him some money (which, given the market's behavior lately, he probably can ill afford). Timing is everything. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Just passing thoughts. I'll actually keep them on the back burner and await XW's next move.

So, do you want to aggrevate people? Or are you just spouting off here? Though it sounds funny what you could do to ex bro in law... think through if the results will actually do what you had hoped. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Oh but it is tempting... I'm still curious as to the name of this topic "new twist for the same old temptation..." Is that the old temptation, to aggrevate people or to seek revenge?Cheers!------------------ The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable ~ Henri Nouwen

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: I'm still curious as to the name of this topic "new twist for the same old temptation..." Is that the old temptation, to aggrevate people or to seek revenge?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, aggravation seems the only effective motivator. Asking nicely, and cooperating swiftly ... don't seem to get me any respect, but aggravating shifted things into high-gear, at least for a while. I have to do what works.As to the topic title--the "temptation" was to send the disks to her boss, for whatever reason (previously revenge, morphed into defensive weapon, now morphing back to something more like punishment).

And with that admission/confession...Do you feel at peace? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Is it getting you what you truly want? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Have you examined your true motives here? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

What have you learned about YOU throughout all of this... I'm wondering if this trailing saga isn't another attempt God is making to show you something about yourself... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Now, if I were your current GF, I'd be pretty nervous hearing about the way you speak and act against your XW... knowing you ONCE committed your life to her... what would you do to me, since you haven't made the same commitment.Anyway, I'm needling you a bit... KNOW that I truly wish you the best and lasting peace... Warmly, Nicole------------------ The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable ~ Henri Nouwen

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: And with that admission/confession... Do you feel at peace? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not till I get my accounts just for myself, but as of right now I don't feel too wound up. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Is it getting you what you truly want? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Well, getting closer and closer to having to use the disks, or even do various silly things to motivate her (I have previously wryly termed it a Plagues of Egypt approach) ... is not really what I want. It's what I have to do. I cannot fathom her motivation for dragging this out. She may be getting some bad advice not to sign that release because it doesn't absolve her of liability for the accounts, and she would have to trust that I am going to make the reapplication. I have certainly told her attorney that I'm intending to reapply, although I haven't baby-stepped him through the intended process.If for some reason the reapplication didn't go through, I do have the resources to pay off whatever debts exist at that time (and if I didn't, I would certainly not default, in any case). What I truly want is to be done, and without having to extend myself one iota beyond what is absolutely required of me. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Have you examined your true motives here? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have examined my motives. If my motives were black, XW would have found herself instantly out of a job and facing angry relatives who knew what she thought of them, or what she had hidden from them about other relatives, or what she herself had done. It's like that whole family is quietly tiptoeing through a city built over the goop that was running through the sewers of NYC in Ghostbusters II, and I could easily have shunted it to the surface (and still could). Wanting to do that ... well, yes--hurt people want to hurt the people that hurt them. I've been patient and held back (at no small emotional cost to myself) on all but the most necessary item to reveal. Judging from how I have felt since revealing that, I think that had I let fly with the rest of it it would have been quite cathartic. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What have you learned about YOU throughout all of this... I'm wondering if this trailing saga isn't another attempt God is making to show you something about yourself... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Perhaps I'm being shown that anger should be expressed, somewhere and somehow, instead of held inside ... but one needn't express it to the person one is angry with, nor express it in such a way that the other person receives a punishment that has permanent consequences for the rest of their life, even if you feel that such would be warranted by what was done to you. It's possible to be better than that, even if the cost is a continuing feeling that the scales are not even. And also, I have learned that there are moral dilemmas that must be addressed, even where the cost to yourself and others is unknown, and even where it will permanently shred the last scraps of a relationship you probably overvalue anyway. Childhood innocence has more value than any of that. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Now, if I were your current GF, I'd be pretty nervous hearing about the way you speak and act against your XW... knowing you ONCE committed your life to her... what would you do to me, since you haven't made the same commitment.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>She knows all this, and she's not nervous ... more like astonished at my patience, and wondering if I'm not perhaps a little too patient. Also, quite happy that I am open with her about my feelings. Sure I committed my life to XW ... but she threw that away. What duties remain to me now? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Anyway, I'm needling you a bit... KNOW that I truly wish you the best and lasting peace... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I didn't feel needled. It helps me to write things that explain myself. Socrates said "The unexamined life is not worth living." I would tend to agree. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited August 04, 2001).]

You say in response to what God could be teaching you about all of this, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Perhaps I'm being shown that anger should be expressed, somewhere and somehow, instead of held inside ... but one needn't express it to the person one is angry with, nor express it in such a way that the other person receives a punishment that has permanent consequences for the rest of their life, even if you feel that such would be warranted by what was done to you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I definitely agree that anger should be expressed... remember that anger, though, is a secondary emotion. The underlying causes are one of three:a) Pain b) Frustration c) FearI'm glad you're recognizing that neither keeping it inside nor destroying someone's life are good options for dealing with it. It's like a continuum... what's the middle ground here? What does the bible tell you (and I really mean YOU, not just what it tells everyone... when you read Matthew 18:15-20 what does it say to you?) about how to resolve your differences with a brother/sister who has *offended* you? (*Offended* is used but can imply a huge varying degree here of offense). I'm not trying to Bible thump - I just want to see if this addresses anything for you? You also indicate this as your ultimate goal: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What I truly want is to be done, and without having to extend myself one iota beyond what is absolutely required of me.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>What are your real options in achieving this goal? What will it take to really be done? What is the point at which you will feel like you're extending yourself... have you defined that yet?I'm still hoping for peace... Have you considered *laying down your arms* or *turning the other cheek?* What are the consequences for you if she never signs that release? How about sending a copy of your signed re-application form showing that you will re-apply... maybe submit it and get it notarized to show that this is the way you're going? Can you go ahead and reapply without her signing the other forms you need? In other words, can't you just get on with your life without interacting with her on this one issue? I'm not clear what the form is for, but it sounds like you can especially when you say this, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>If for some reason the reapplication didn't go through, I do have the resources to pay off whatever debts exist at that time (and if I didn't, I would certainly not default, in any case). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>More food for you to chew or spew... [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Cheers, Nicole ------------------ The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable ~ Henri Nouwen[This message has been edited by OvrCs (edited August 04, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>what's the middle ground here?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Patience. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What I truly want is to be done, and without having to extend myself one iota beyond what is absolutely required of me.What are your real options in achieving this goal?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just wait or start making things uncomfortable again <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What will it take to really be done?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hopefully, not a restart of the Plagues. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> What is the point at which you will feel like you're extending yourself... have you defined that yet?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If I do anything with my accounts ... without that release ... I'll have had to go to more trouble than I should have. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Have you considered *laying down your arms* or *turning the other cheek?*<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have. Such a gesture would be unlikely to be seen in that family as other than weakness or a cynical strategem. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>What are the consequences for you if she never signs that release?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Her name is still stuck on a couple of my accounts and I have to look at it for the next few years. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> How about sending a copy of your signed re-application form showing that you will re-apply... maybe submit it and get it notarized to show that this is the way you're going?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't want her or her lawyer viewing my financial information. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Can you go ahead and reapply without her signing the other forms you need?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nope. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>In other words, can't you just get on with your life without interacting with her on this one issue?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yep. But she's not getting her $900+ IRS check that way--can't get a break from her, she's not getting any more breaks from me. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I'm not clear what the form is for<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Simply authorizes her name being off my credit union accounts and the attached Visa. As of now, my stuff is still showing up on her credit report, and she wants it off. Fine. Send me the form. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>, but it sounds like you can ... More food for you to chew or spew... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I've just drawn my line. With no guarantee I won't suddenly redefine the line as one she crossed long ago ... and heat up hostilties again.

Just an aside: the new job is getting to be a kick for GF. Plenty of deals in the pipleline, although the first didn't work out and the second is now imperiled.She sourced a candidate for one job ... realized that the candidate would be right for another company in another city where candidate happened to already be moving ... the company was one GF's former employer was constantly trying to brush off ... so GF felt nothing prevented her from contacting them to put the candidate in for the publicly-advertised, non-exclusive to any recruiter position ... and the company was OK with working with GF ... until the candidate (who, of course, is also looking on her own) spotted a year-old job posting on the internet and called GF's old company's toll free line looking for GF ... which caused everything to blow sky-high. Old employer tracked down new employer using rusing calls.Old employer also called company ... which now doesn't want candidate because "there's some question whose candidate she is" ... and old employer has had lawyer send letter to both new employer and GF, accusing GF of stealing their database and threatening to sue for everything including mopery with intent to gawk. New employer will back GF to the hilt. GF didn't take their database, and has been building a new one from scratch, using an intern.I wrote GF a letter to send back to employer (bypassing her attorney ... a definite diss) ... basically telling her employer to go pound sand, and oh, by the way, that GF will be going after old employer for tortious interference (if anything happens other than candidate getting hired--by interfering, old employer has basically made herself the guarantor of that job, and should probably beg company to hire the candidate so that GF isn't robbed of a commission) and defamation, no to mention unpaid commissions and bonuses still owed to GF by old employer. This could be fun.[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited August 06, 2001).]

I'm serious... I think you could take almost any situation and spin it into a sit-on-the-edge of your chair saga...Did you/do you get your writing published? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Cheers, nicoleps - I have to get the kids to a vacation bible school this morning but I want to respond to your yesterday note about something that struck me... stay tuned.------------------ The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable ~ Henri Nouwen

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: Did you/do you get your writing published?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Only dry, scholarly articles ... Samuel Johnson said "Only a fool writes for other than money." ... well, the articles didn't pay, and neither does this ... so I shouldn't be doing it. Haven't written an article in a few years...

Still no response. Must not want that check very badly.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Sisyphus originally states: Yep. But she's not getting her $900+ IRS check that way--can't get a break from her, she's not getting any more breaks from me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What does this mean? Is she supposed to receive this money? Why wouldn't she want to do this? ------------------ The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable ~ Henri Nouwen

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by OvrCs: What does this mean?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just what it says. I have the check in hand, where it will stay, unless and until I get my release. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Is she supposed to receive this money?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yep. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Why wouldn't she want to do this?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Here's something I just discovered today, a corollary to Occam's Razor:Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity". [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Well, here's my latest. In an effort to be accomodating, I have done some digital manipulation of the credit union's release form so that it is not effective to get her name off the accounts unless and until she is also released from liability for any debts (of course, a new application would be accompanying the release, but apparently the other side didn't want to take that minimal risk). It frankly hadn't occurred to me during all these months to change the language of the credit union's form. GF came up with the idea as we were dozing off last night. Were the credit union a big bank, an idea like this would never fly, but since they're small it's worth a try (gosh, I sound like Underdog here). So the new language is off to her attorney and her. Who knows, may'be I'll get somewhere this time. It would be nice to send her the check and the CD-Rs and be done with it.[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited August 12, 2001).]

Your GF sounds like a winner! She's pretty calm, cool and collected I'd say. How much time really do you spend talking about this stuff... AND are you thinking of anything more serious at this point?Does she know these MB principles? Does she already live them out? It will be done when the SAGA is over but then what will we do without Sisyphus on the MB Boards!!???Cheers! Nicole------------------ The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable ~ Henri Nouwen

Another annoying thing came up today. XW's name shows up on a database as having received her professional designation. She never told me ... (it was a very long road she made longer than it should have been, and I supported her efforts 1000% percent). <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000164.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000164.html</A> I just feel like dropping those CD-Rs in the mail to rip it all away from her... but of course I won't. A Grateful Dead line keeps going through my head "Is there anything a man don't stand to lose ... when the Devil wants to take it all away..." Which would cast me in the role of The Devil!Still no word on whether I will get from her the paperwork I need.[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited August 13, 2001).]

Still nothing.

when will this end!!! How frustrating for you!------------------ The new country is where you are called to go, and the only way to go there is naked and vulnerable ~ Henri Nouwen

I sent her an e-mail and left a message on her office voice-mail (she wouldn't pick up my call). Nothing beyond "Will I see either version of the release form from you anytime soon?"I've left a similar voice-mail message in the not-too-distant past (3-4 days ago). Still toying with the idea of letting her father or brother in on the family secret. But I feel strangely unemotional about the whole thing, and since I'm not worked up about it, I don't feel a lot of motivation to actually do it. This isn't the hill I want to die on. Even though it should be the last battle, something tells me it's not, and I'll need to keep my powder dry.

You once suggested we dissect my H's brain... how about hers? WHAT has she got as her BATNA? Best Alternative Tto a Negotiated AgreementWhat is her BEST alternative to signing or NOT signing the release? WHAT is going on in her head? What is YOUR BATNA? What can you do if she simply WILL not sign?Then you weigh whether your alternative is stronger and preferential to dealing with her. She sounds incredibly unreasonable to me.As for the vindictive moment/thought you had there regarding letting her bro and dad know the *family* secret... just let it go. Go OUT taking the high ground. Anyway, why do you call it *family* when her Dad and Bro don't even know? AND, what good will it do to getting your release... that IS what you want isn't it? Or are you still dealing with the TITLE of this thread... the same old temptation... Hmmm?Cheers, Nicole ------------------ "You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity." ~ Henri Nouwen ~

She's got to realize that more can be done with the secret than has already been done. Perhaps she has already told people in her family, having realized that it is unpredictable when or where the information might show up next. She might have told her boss of the CD-RWs, putting her own spin on my participation in the matter. She might be enjoying watching me squirm. Or be trying to goad me into crossing some line that will allow her to involve me in a long and exhausting legal battle, or possibly problems with the Bar. She might want me to get angry and inform her brother and/or father because she can't do so herself. She once tried to talk about it to her mother, but was only able to do so in such oblique terms that her mother was left only with the impression that the uncle tried to get her to try pot--the mother said the father could not be told. The father is probably closer to this uncle than to any other of his siblings--he parks a 40' RV at the uncle's ranch whenever he's in the area. She might want out of her profession, and be unable to pull that trigger (she wants to be in something where she can earn commissions, not just splits of jobs someone else brings in--to be a player rather than referee). Or she may just have lost the impetus to finish this off because nothing terrible has happened in a while (like the first release of the information). Or she may know that it sort of hangs me up (since I have one or two "joint" accounts that have her name on them), and it pleases her to keep that connection for some reason. My BATNA is to just ignore it, and wait for her attorney to push the issue if anything at all happens. Hers is likely to wait until I push the issue. Heck, I might do something provocative today. Or not. It's easy to counsel others to exercise gentleness with each other, and to take the most charitable view of others' actions (or inactions). To practice it in one's own life requires the utmost discipline.

Well, here's a strange twist. My GF just got a rusing visit at the office from a gal claiming to be an old friend who saw my name on the guard's sign-in sheet Saturday and wanted to see if I was at her (GF's) office right now. Admitted to being from the same floor as XW, but didn't give a name. The physical description is consistent with an ex-support employee of XW's firm with whom XW was particularly close. This particular person moved away with her husband to his new job in another state, but I could easily see her returning to town for one reason or another. The other funny think is that I have completely blanked out this person's name ... I can remember her sister's name and I've only met the sister a few times (only because the name is unusual ... and this gal's name isn't ... but I can remember the husband's name too, and it's as common as dirt. Aaaargh.

I rememeberd XW's office friend's name, and GF made a rusing call of her own. The friend isn't working there.

I have some movement to report in any case. XW's attorney called and asked that I fax over the revised document. He couldn't find his attachment. As usual. So I faxed it. I've heard nothing back, but it's only been over there about an hour, and that's a nanosecond to a lawyer. Unless he's billing for it. In which case it's definitely longer than an hour, but highly variable. No mention of XW apparently having done the detective work for reasons unknown. So I imagine that will have no repurcussions other than somehow moving XW to move forward.Interesting that after all the talk of me being controlling and paranoid, etc.; she is the only one who has gone so far as to actually do anything underhanded to try to find out about my private life, by sending someone downstairs to ruse my GF's office looking for me. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Still nothing. I did send an e-mail to her (blind copying her father and brother for whatever good that might do--one or both might be getting a distorted version, and this could cause them to question her) yesterday morning: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Will I be seeing that revised <credit union name> Release anytime soon? I've been doing my part, but you and your lawyer don't seem so enthusiastic to wrap this up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just a little jolt. So far no response. Of course, the $900 check stays right in my drawer in the meantime. [This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited August 28, 2001).]

I guess I lost it a bit today. I tried to phone her at her office, and was given her attorney's number to call. Since he's worthless, it P.O.'d me. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

So I forwarded a couple of old e-mails to a close friend of hers. E-mails that made clear what had happened to her years ago. And that she had apparently not thought enough of certain relatives to warn against certain other relatives. XW's friend is her high-school French teacher, now retired and moved away. XW's most trusted and respected confidant, outside of family. A strong catholic, she'll be astonished at XW's omission. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

But not a source of permanent repurcussions. Those recipients would be inside the family (of course, they would be so shallow as to be angry as much at having their apparently smooth relations upset as they would be over the actual facts [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

). Regrettable that I must use XW's friend that way, but increasingly necessary.I'm not looking for any particular effect between the two of them, merely a realization that failure to get me my paper, and failure to deal with me directly ... are now going to have concrete consequences. Escalating consequences. Ultimately, unbearable consequences. It's easier to sign my paper and send it to me and be done with me. And if it isn't, I just need to make the alternative tougher. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]

Now, how are the consequences natural here...? I'm all for natural consequences but this still is vindictive... c'mon Sisyphus... just send her the $900 check and be done with it. Do you really want the hassle? I'm asking you to really examine it... I know you're frustrated and it would make life easier but there's more to this... you're not *finished* yet or so it seems...You have GOT to do what you can do to LIVE AT PEACE WITH EACH OTHER if at all possible and up to you!BUT, I know this has GOT to be frustrating to be thinking/wondering about this each and every day...Take care, bud... Nicole------------------ "You will deceive yourself into believing that if people, circumstances, and events had been different, your pain would not exist...Your pain is the concrete way in which you participate in the pain of humanity." ~ Henri Nouwen ~

No, the consequences aren't natural. Apparently the natural consequences (not being off my account and credit card) hold little deterrent value. I'm having to get creative. Vindictive, no. Remember, she could be out of not just a job but a career, and her family could hate her and each other. And that could have been done months and months ago. I'm using a light touch. Perhaps it's been too light. Only now am I turning the screw. Which, unfortunately, seems the only way to get things done. Remember, when something is demanded of me, I do it. On the rare occasions when I receive some help, I acknowledge it. I put together the '99 1040, and changed it to their specifications. That bunch wouldn't think twice about doing to me whatever they had to do. At least I have a little angst about it all.

Just dropping in to give what I hope is the final update to this story. Not too long after my last missive, XW's attorney threatened "court intervention" over the remaining account issues and my attempts to contact XW. I held firm that I needed my release, and told him (in e-mail, as usual) that he didn't have a real strong record on which to go to court, as well as having deprived himself of a certain amount of relevance by not timely getting back to me with this, that and the other thing, while most of what they wanted of me came back to them same-day. XW and her attorney at last provided the release I needed. But in the meantime they made some sort of contact with my credit union in the course of doing so ... that caused the credit union to close out my overdraft protection and a modest-limit Visa I had over there (at the moment, reopening them requires more paperwork than I want to do). That could have been bumpy for me. But I was ahead of them, and transferred some balances to a card where I had a low rate; apparently doing so just ahead of the turbulence. Meanwhile, GF's now ex-boss failed to support her when her previous boss derailed her first deal, then contrived to solve his own problem of overwork by trying to close GF's desk (though she had a pipeline full of deals) and pay her less to work directly under him. I steeled her to walk, and walk she did. Her ex-boss was a pain about paying her last paycheck, and was threatening to vigorously enforce a non-compete. I pointed out a few things that he did to create a hostile environment (in the sexual harrassment sense, with multiple witnesses--basically Clarence Thomas potty-mouth type stuff, no groping), and he coughed up the check and I think will be happy to see the last of us. GF has quietly hung out her own shingle. Again, putting together deals (sometimes four and five at a time) with outfits her former bosses weren't too interested in dealing with. She also did a bunch of back billing for my business ... bringing in thousands. I still hold the CD-ROMs. May send them back before too much longer. GF and I get married in January.

There you are!!! Greetings from Johannesburg, So Africa (just here for 10 days teaching an HR course and partaking of a safari!)...Well, the saga with the X is finished, eh? Gosh you're good... I'd hate to get into a face to face verbal argument with you!!!Oh, and nice little "drop" with the news of your engagement!? Gosh, can't believe it! Really, didn't think you'd take the nestle plunge again for a while!Well, all the best and I hope you do stay in touch! Congratulations! Take care.Warmly,
Nicole

<blockquote>quote:<hr>Originally posted by OvrCs:
Well, the saga with the X is finished, eh? Gosh you're good... I'd hate to get into a face to face verbal argument with you!!!<hr></blockquote>Nah, I'm a pussycat. At least, I don't usually raise my voice. Wasn't necessarily so good at standing up for myself during the marriage. Only afterward, when I felt I owed little or no duty anymore. Fiancee and I saw something horrifying last night. Had to call 911 on the cell. I spotted a couple in their 20s on a sidewalk in a seedy area of town, his hand on her throat. As we drove up and down the well-trafficked street, he forced her across the road, pulled her back as she tried to run away by crossing back across the street, and struggled with her along a block-long iron fence. They moved down a side-street, and he was keeping her with him by denying her her purse. We could see him lecturing her. Finally, the police showed up and made contact with them, the 911 officer relayed back that they had denied there was anything going on, and it became clear that the cops weren't sure they had the right couple. We assured the operator that they had spoken to the right couple ... and as we drove off we saw a squad car returning to questin them anew.