I just found this site (my wife just admitted to a year long emotional affair) and it has been extremely helpful I just did full exposure to his friends and family on Facebook. I am still debating on the work exposure however.

Anyway, when wrestling with the decision to disclose to his friends and family I ran across a passage that helped me know this was the correct thing to do. I'm not trying to pass Biblical writings on to this group but for me it was very telling. From Proverbs 6:32:

But a man who commits adultery has no sense; whoever does so destroys himself.
33 Blows and disgrace are his lot,
and his shame will never be wiped away.

34 For jealousy arouses a husband�s fury,
and he will show no mercy when he takes revenge.
35 He will not accept any compensation;
he will refuse a bribe, however great it is.

I am still searching for answers regarding this affair, it is so hard...

Welcome to MB, BX.

I think you will ever find "answers" to the affair. If the question is "why did she do it?" no answer will ever be satisfactory. Dr Harley has seen so many affairs carried put by people with every conceivable variety of convictions that he believes that we are all wired for them. We are all capable of cheating under the right circumstances. Those that do not cheat stay faithful because they maintain barriers against friendships and close interactions with the opposite sex. Your wife did not do that.

What makes you think that an affair of a year long was emotional only? Is this what your wife told you? I am sorry to say that there is very little possibility that this is true. An other man (OM) would not have stayed involved with her for conversation and flattery only. It is almost a certainty that they had sex to some degree. You need to find out about that, because you need to be protected from the possibility of a sexually transmitted infections, and you need not to be lied to and gaslighted. until your wife tells you the full truth about the affair, you cannot consider yourself to be in recovery.

How did you find out about the affair? What have you been told about it? Where and how was it conducted - lunches together? Emails?

It seems that the affair partners work together. Well, another thing you should realise is that the affair will not end until that situation is changed. One of them needs to leave the job, and until that happens, they are in daily contact and are getting and receiving some degree of emotional satisfaction. Indeed, it is entirely possible that they are having physical interactions in the workplace, as they always did. You are sorely misguided to believe that the affair is over simply because you have discovered it. Please read this article in which Dr Harley describes the need for absolute no contact (NC) for life.

Is OM married? Did you expose to his wife? Have you had any response yet? Facebook exposure is often the only way to reach family members, but for a spouse, it is much better to contact her personally, by phone or face-to-face. If you know OM's name, you can find out where they live and knock on her door. You MUST ensure that she has personally received your message. Her knowledge of this is the best guarantee you can have that the job situation will change and the affair will not be allowed to continue. Additionally, OMW might find out things that you have not discovered - such as that the affair was sexual.

You need to expose at the workplace right away. Is one of them in a supervisory position over the other? Have you told your wife to give up her job?

How long have you been married? How old are you both? Kids? Their ages?

Are you based in Europe? I'm in London.

Below you will find NeverGuessed's Betrayed Husband Survival Kit.

Some of this you've already (partially) done.

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put �Flexispy� on any cellphone that she might use.
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take �personal� calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and �on� whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.

WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,

9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife�s contacts, to the tune of: �I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333�
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM�s contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

Now for the bad news.

A woman who is in an Emotional Affair will not admit it.

A woman who admits to an Emotional Affair is in a Physical Affair, and is doing damage control.

Thanks for the quick reply SugarCane. A quick update. I already got a response from the OM saying I destroyed his life and i dint have to worry about him contacting my wife again I wrote back and asked if he saw the irony. He then wrote back and said he was sorry.

So, in a sense it worked. However, now my wife is EXTREMELY pis$Ed at me for what I did (she checked my cell and saw what I did). So if I "won" why do I feel like I just lost my wife (she said some very hurtful things)?

She is angry that you took her crack pipe away. I presume you exposed?

Just think of the OM as crack. And your WW as an addict. Addicts do not like it when you shine the light of day on them. Everyone would know and then they can't enjoy their crack in peace.

Just remember, your marriage can survive her anger but not an affair.

You've answered none of my questions.

It's frustrating when someone does that. I took a while making that post, and the questions were designed so that people here could give you advice on your next steps.

Sorry.
Married 6 years,
2 kids 4 and 2.
They work for the same company in different states so they saw each other at least 2 times per year.
I found out through her email. When confronted her she admitted it.
I exposed to everyone with same last name.

He texts me regularly today saying he us sorry and he is going to work on himself and his wide and family.

What now with my wife?

Have you exposed YOUR WIFE'S adultery to YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY? Her friends and family?

Proverbs 14:1 "A wise woman builds her house, a foolish woman tears hers down"

I am sorry you are here. But you are in the right place.

Dr H's concepts are not that far off biblical teaching's and I can find the word of god in most of his basic concepts. Dr H is also a man of great faith.

"do not break your promise to the wife you married when you were young, 'I Hate Divorce' says the Lord God of Israel". Malachi 2:15-16 I hope you find inspiration here to save your M.

Now on to the issue. Neverguessed gave you superior advice. I am getting that this is a work place Affair (A) so she or he will need to leave that job immediately. There is absolutely no way around it so that No Contact can be maintained as one of your first demands after the full outright EXPOSURE to everyone you know and at her workplace.

Know this one thing that is for sure. """I am still searching for answers regarding this affair, it is so hard...""" you have been unknowingly drug into a all out WAR for your M. The mercy of the lord is not for the adulterous. Nor shall you be merciful when you fight for your wife (nehemiah 4:14). You win wars with a PLAN. It is going to be hard and a roller coaster ride but you may come out of this the better person and with a better M. In short there is no answer to "WHY" The only thing you can do is to figure out "HOW" and demand a path that never leads to the "WHY" again.
So lets continue with some more words of wisdom "When offended, husbands should "act like men, be strong" 1 Corinthians 16:13

1) Expose this to all (complete nuclear exposure) Affairs are like vampires they live in darkness and die in the light (truth)
2) Demand No Contact for LIFE as a condition to remain in the M (leaving the workplace)
3) Demand a plan that will restore romantic love to your M (Marriage builders plan)
4) set up your snooping tools as advised above
5) Order Surviving an Affair and consume it and then act on it.

She will probably be very "foggy" so come here often so we can help you decode the babble you will get. Her fog will wear off if she maintains NC (No Contact) But it may take months. Dont expect allot of remorse or work from her during this time.
Figure out what this OM (Other Man) was doing for her in terms of "Emotional Needs" Start fulfilling those needs as best as you can and no love busting following plan A. Plan A is your starting point for YOU to be the better person. I would bet it was "Conversational needs and Admiration" as these are the most common start to most A's.
The single best advice I can give you is hire a marriage counselor that specializes in restoring a marriage after an affair. (the Harleys) Most MC's dont help they hurt so be very careful when choosing a MC if this is a path your looking at.
Dig in and suit up in that flack jacket. Its a WAR.

He is hoping you won't tell his wife. I would get to her TODAY and tell her about the affair. In addition, I would expose to your wifes close family members to get their support.


You realize this will have to change, right?

I called and told his wife last night. No response yet. The bad part is that she has had a boyfriend for a year. Their marriage appears to be over.

I have read surviving an affair, good read.

How could you have "called and told" her if there was "no response"? What did you call? Did you leave an exposure message on her answering machine?

I do hope not. You need to make direct contact with her and verify that you are speaking to her. if you leave a message somewhere for her, it can be intercepted by her WH who will keep it away from her. As MelodyLane says, he is trying to keep you away from her. Do not let this happen.

I'm sorry SugarCane. I'm doing this from my phone. It's difficult to see and everything at the same time. I value all of your opinions or I wouldn't be here.

Yes, I know the job situation needs to change.

Did you leave a message?? You'll need to call back until you get her physically on the phone. It is a simple matter for OM to delete the message. This is too passive, BX. Call her back until you actually get her on the phone.
Do you know OMW personally? Have you seen her out on dates with her 'boyfriend'? Or is this something one of the two liars told you? (Those liars being your WW and OM.)

He just sent me another text saying his parents just called him crying...heee heee

They (OM and his wife) live in a different state. I do not know either of them.

BX, Probably the best i have run across is from Hosea...


Hos 2:6-12 Therefore I will hedge up her way with thorns, and I will build a wall against her, so that she cannot find her paths. (7) She shall pursue her lovers but not overtake them, and she shall seek them but shall not find them. Then she shall say, 'I will go and return to my first husband, for it was better for me then than now.' (8) And she did not know that it was I who gave her the grain, the wine, and the oil, and who lavished on her silver and gold, which they used for Baal. (9) Therefore I will take back my grain in its time, and my wine in its season, and I will take away my wool and my flax, which were to cover her nakedness. (10) Now I will uncover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and no one shall rescue her out of my hand. (11) And I will put an end to all her mirth, her feasts, her new moons, her Sabbaths, and all her appointed feasts. (12) And I will lay waste her vines and her fig trees, of which she said, 'These are my wages, which my lovers have given me.' I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall devour them.


Sorry you are here brother. Remember, exposure is one of those ways to "hedge her way with thorns" and build walls so she cannot find paths...

CV

Then how do you know she has a boyfriend?

I got a voice mail from his brother saying he was sorry about everything and wanted me to know he would help anyway he could. His brother said in the VM they all knew about her but not about him.

I still say the 'Hedge of Thorns' prayer daily, CV!

Thanks.

Then how do you know she has a boyfriend?

I would guess it is an excuse/lie OM gave WW to justify the A...

God Bless
Gamma

You are dancing away from where we are trying to lead you, BX. You're doing yourself no favors, here, and you are actually making your job more difficult.

You need to speak personally with his wife!

When my H was in the middle of his affair, our marrige was supposedly on the rocks. How about that one? You'd think someone would have thought to mention that to ME!

Just for clarification, I sent his wife an email with the details I had regarding their affair. I then called the number that I believe is correct. It appeared to be a cell because it didn't announce the persons name just a standard greeting with the phone number.

I will keep trying to speak to her. In the mean time, do I give her 24 hours to "cool off" before trying to start the road to recovery? Sleep in the same bed, pretend like nothing happened? How do I respond to her "hating" me?

Sorry you are here, BXB. Just my two cents in response to SugarCane: while it is certainly uncommon, it is still possible that they did not go physical. I am one example of this (and I am well out of the fog so no need to lie about such things). Looking in retrospect, I think my EA lasted almost a year as well (3/4 or sth), although I would never have classified it as such for the first months.

I'm sorry if you have already said it and I've missed it, but what made her admit her EA? It usually doesn't happen out of the blue, you know. ETA: ok, I saw that you discovered and confronted her. This explains her anger and it is perfectly normal.

Exposure is good! And needs to be done in the circle of your families and friends as well. Her workplace - absolutely.

And I am repeating what others have said, but it is important - no contact is essential. She should quit her job. There are too many possibilities of contact and too many triggers (even if he leaves the job as well).

Get as much UA time as possible. A weekend getaway would be perfect.

In the mean time, do I give her 24 hours to "cool off" before trying to start the road to recovery? Talk of "recovery" is premature at this time. Her adulterous brain is still craving the dopamine that she received from her AP. Recovery cannot start until after withdrawal and THAT follows affair-termination.

Sleep in the same bed, pretend like nothing happened? ABSOLUTELY!

How do I respond to her "hating" me? Very calmly, state that you were, with your actions, taking steps to protect your marriage. Mention that you hope she will soon see that. In the mean time, make her a nice cup of chamomile tea. (BUT GET THAT DAMNED MINI-RECORDER!)

So last night was as bad as I thought it would be. I obviously got the silent treatment for the most part except for a few random thoughts such as:

"You know I have feelings for him"
"Why did you have to hurt innocent people with your email? You sent it to people that have little or no knowledge of HIM and especially about his married life. "
"Why didn't you stop with just a couple of people (parents, wife, brother, etc). "
"This is our problem not theirs"
"we are in a worse place now than we have been in the last year."

I answered these logically (to me) with a simple statement:

"I was doing what I needed to do to save our marriage."

I have been depositing into the LB for 30 days now. Can i assume that her LB is now empty and needs to be filled agsin? Feedback on responses to her statements and feedback to next steps would be appreciated.

Ahh, yes, snippets from the classics. The untracked WW, as a genre, seem to suffer a pronounced loss of function in the "creative composition" portion of the brain, resulting in their resorting to parrotting lines from "Golden Hits of the Cheaters", vol 1 and 2.

She will soon find the words to "If There Was Any Chance For Us Before, It's Gone Now". This should be followed by the all-time great cha-cha, "I Need Some Time Alone To Find Myself", and, of course, that famous ballad, "Why Can't You Just Be Happy For Me?"

Sadly, there is only one person spinning the tunes for awhile, and it takes some time for her to grow as tired of hearing herself, as you are already of hearing her.

If it provides any comfort, your particular brand of WW seems disinclined to reach the "Screaming Banshee" level of resentment. This might be presaged by a confrontation, followed by the grabbing of car-keys and racing away, to slink back hours later, having no real plan or place to go.

Stay strong, stay calm, repeat IADTTSOM, and lay in the supply of chamomile.

BX her comments are so run of the mill you could have cut and pasted it from 100's of threads on this forum. Its usual don't worry... I said similar things to my Mum who exposed my affair as my DH was deployed. It's just crap so smile gently ... ask her would she like a cup of tea/coffee/chocolate? .. you made your position clear .. saving your M ... don't go into long winded justifications.. its the only one that�s important.

As for her LB? well its obviously very low so just keep Plan A in place.. do the deposits as part of your 'normal' day.... its permanent change you want to demonstrate.. that YOU are her best choice ... that YOU are all that she could want in a husband ... it will be a bit slow but plug away ... there will probably not be any sudden quick change ... but also its not unusual.

don't worry if you make mistakes.. its consistency thats the key

Try not to lecture her or show her how wrong she is �. she will come to that herself and it will be far more effective that way as well.

Keep up the plan A... follow vets advice � that is the best chance for a successful recovery

goodluck BX

Babble from the WW...UGH. Classic as you have been told. I have yet to find a copy of the waywards handbook that didn't have these babbling's when the Affair was exposed.
There are a few of the exceptional waywards that come home humbled and in fear of loosing there family. But even those seem to have some of these babbling as justification's.
If your exposure hasn't been completely done FINISH IT TODAY. It is essential to get it done and over as to not dripping. Have you E to the workplace yet?

I have not completed exposure yet. Waiting on the job since they both work for the same company and my wife will lose her job (run by very religious people who have let others go in similar situations). I know, I will finish it...

I know each situation is different but is there a general rule of thumb on how and when to start/bring up recovery plan, reconciliation, etc. I feel like the affair is completely over between them. (he sent me 9 texts explaining his sorrow, how important his kids and wife are and this is the intervention he needed, blah, blah. His wife thanked me for exposing and "she will take of it". My wife also told me it was over so "I won" and she hoped "I was happy. ". I dont believe them, just stating the communication between everyone.

I want to put this behind us and begin recovery .

Did you talk to his wife directly or was it through texts? If it was through texts, it could have been OM.

Be careful that they do not take this affair further underground. You have what many BS's do not--a work environment that actually cares about adultery. Expose--she will have to get a new job anyway. She cannot continue to work with the OM.

I received a Facebook email back from the exposure emails I sent earlier in the day. She still has not responded via telephone to the message I left earlier. I will try again.

Also, what is IADTTSOM? I'm not familiar with that acronym. Thank you.

what is IADTTSOM? = I am doing this to save our Marriage

You will not begin recovery until you end the affair. You will not end the affair until you separate the affairees. You will not separate the affairees until you expose at work. See how one thing leads logically to the other, all in your favor?

Your wife can get another job. Wouldn't you rather she do that than get another husband?

If you haven't exposed to the workplace yet, here is the BritsBrats letter:

(written by MelodyLane)
Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney. This letter should be mailed/delivered to the Director of HR, with cc's to a key VP and the infidel's supervisors. It should go to 3 people with all being cc'd so that no one is tempted to throw the letter away.

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS

You are doing a great job!

I love the line from maritalbliss! Its better that she gets a different job than a different husband!

You just have a couple loops to close. Speak to the wife. So that you can be assured that your facebook message wasn't intercepted. The "I'll take it from here" sounds more like a response from OM to throw you off the track.

And finish exposure quickly. Its better to have one Tsunami of anger from her than repeated episodes.

AttaBoy BX!

Still haven't spoken to the wife yet but got a text from his brother again. I think this is a gift from God but I don't know how to use it.

Anyway, his brother send me a text telling me OM. Picked up a hooker and she robbed him of his Rolex and rang up 11k on his credit card just a few months ago while my wife and him were still involved.

What should I do with this juicy tidbit? Hold on to it until a rainy day or tell her his brother sent me a text and then show it to her? I want to play this card right and get my wife back. Thoughts please?

LOL It only shows his character so forward it to your WW if you want to but its of little use to you in your endeavor.
Have you exposed to workplace BXB?

Paychologically, will it end her feelings for him faster or will it make her hate me even more than she does already? I dont really care at this point, just wanted opinions on how this will affect a woman
Yes I exposed this morning. Honestly, it didn't feel good but I know it had to be done.

Text the brother back, asking if he would be so kind as to text your WW (without referring to you) and give her the "good" news.

Ahhh, the devious juices are flowing today.......

Great idea NG

Damn, he won't do it. He said he doesn't want to be involved on this "tragedy." He told me to use it as needed and continue to provide information as needed.

Great Job on exposure and I like NG idea as well.
She doesnt hate you she has just misplaced her feelings.
Now Plan A it and snoop.
Let the anger die down,Anger takes so much energy its hard to sustain for very long.
Keep repeating your positions on remaining in the M with a smile in your voice.

Sounds like his brother may have got all the Honor genes.

I was thinking of using a threat like "if I have a ***EDIT*** STD there will be divorce papers delivered to you tomorrow and I will ask for full child support and custody!"

His brother said his STD test came back clean but I'm getting checked anyway.

Is this excessive and will push her away even farther or justified? I know I don't have an STD.

Just show your wife the text. That will do just as well.

To paraphrase the Master:

Do, or do not. There is no "threaten".

I agree with Yoda, NEVER THREATEN, girls threaten, men do or do not!!

So I showed my wife the brother's text and it didn't get the reaction I was hoping for. As a matter of fact she didn't really SAY anything. Was I expecting too much? I was hoping she would throw her arms around my neck and say let's work this out.

I also made a mistake by saying something like, Id like to fly to X state and take my airfare out of his $&@.". Maybe I thought showing her that I still cared that a piece of crap hurt her that she would put that in a positive light. Guess I was wrong.

Anyway, the affair is over according to everyone I talked to. I know, it's hard to prove.

Keep digging. Snoop more.

Meanwhile, schedule to get yourself STD tested and ANNOUNCE IT. Tell her since her OM used the services of a hooker, that YOU have to be sure that you're ok. Suggest she do it to.

I am sure her wheels are turning in the foggy brain

One more thing. Before this I get a text from her asking if I've heard from anyone is his family. Thinking she knows I got that text I say yes and what I saw was very hurtful to me and to her. After that, she proceeds to call OM (he doesn't answer) and gives him the business asking "what did you say to my husband to make him so upset?".

I know all of this because my "mole" (his brother) calls me asking what us going on because the OM knows he called me.

Fast forward to my previous post.

Here's where I need advice. My wife told me she and berated the OM because she was concerned about me. I'm taking this as a good sign? Would I be depositing in the LB if I say thank you for your concern and I appreciate her thinking of my feelings?

I would put NO weight on this. Your WW isn't going to try to alienate her AP. The chance is about 100% that she has said nothing to him. Think about it - why would she show any loyalty to you if she wants to maintain the affair?

I suspect she has said nothing to him about you.

So WW tells me tonight that:

1. As it stands right now she doesn't see us working this out.
2. She wants to be happy and right now she's not.
3. Our kids will be (age 4 and 2) if we're not together.
4. She doesn't want to quit her job (EA) was with coworker. (yes I exposed to work, haven't heard back)
5. We should call a realtor to see what our house will bring if we sell it. It should be sold

Can someone assure me these are natural responses to a WW who was exposed a week ago?

She is going out of town for work at a conference next week. This is the same conference where the whole EA started a year ago and as far as I know, he will be there. Therefore, I have no way of knowing what they will be up to.

I haven't been as strong as I want to be. I'm asking what she needs and wants from me so we can move on and all I get is a blank stare and "I don't know."

Is this normal?

She is very angry about her affair being threatened. She does not want her 'crack pipe' taken away. She may try to patch things up with the OM at the conference.

Can you go to the conference too? Tell her it will be an opportunity to talk. Maybe you can get OMW to go with her hubby?

Just my .02

Yes this is normal. But I have some bad news for you.

I don't think his wife knows at all. I think his brother (if it really is his brother) is feeding you BS. You MUST speak (as in on the telephone or in person) to make sure that his wife truly IS getting the message.

More bad news, if OM was picking up prostitutes while he was involved with your WW, there is more to their story than what you've been told. They HAVE had sex and probably will again at this convention. Do you honestly believe that they have carried on an EA ONLY for a YEAR? Honestly?

Tomorrow is Monday. You have two important phone calls to make (1) to OMW's until you get through and (2) to their job. You are missing two critical opportunities for exposure that have the most potential for blowing this up.

You said you read "Surviving An Affair"... go back and reread it.

While your WW is actively involved (i.e., working) with OM, there is NO possibility of recovery. There just isn't.

Step one in this whole mess is a COMPLETE exposure. Sorry, OM's brother is not to be trusted. He and OM could be laughing at you behind the scenes. Make sure you are getting the truth.

I would do this BEFORE she goes to that convention.

For now, don't discuss ways to make your divorce amicable. She needs to know that you will do whatever is necessary to protect your family. You don't do divorce. Let her know that divorce will not be a pretty picture. You will NOT remain friends. You WILL file for custody of the children. You will cross-file for divorce based on adultery, which will include bringing the OM into court to testify about his role in the destruction of your marriage. You will NOT make divorce "easy".

Same thing with OM, he needs to know that continuing to mess with your wife will bring hell to his life and then do it.

No more discussion about selling the house, etc. She wants a divorce, then she needs to do the work, and you will fight her every step of the way. Your children are worth it even if she doesn't think so.

I cannot go to this conference, I have to watch the kids.

Can you take them with you? Get family to watch them? This conference is a critical point, BX. And are you sure it's really a work conference? Have you independently verified that? Your WW may just be going on vacation with her AP.

I watched her open the Fedex Saturday that contained her itinerary, flight info., and meeting agendas. All were labeled from ger home office and everything was branded with her company name and the slogan of the conference. So yes, I am confident this conference is real.

So you know for sure where she's going to be. Good! Now, can you take the kids and go as well?

Unfortunately, I can't make it. Two kids at home and can't afford to fly them (and me) across country.

So, you CAN afford to lose your marriage. Got it. Good luck. Hopefully she won't take you to the cleaners financially, and you'll get to see your kids every few months or so.

I'll find the money. One more question. My WW's brother and his family (wife/kids) coming in for the weekend to a close by city. The plan was to take our family (WW, our kids, me) to visit for the day. Then I exposed and since then, I'm now not invited and was told it's not a good idea since we aren't in a good place, it would be too hard to put on a happy face in front of all the family.

I want to go and see everyone but I don't want to force anything. Should I insist or tell her to go with our kids and without me?

Go!

DARE anyone to bring it up! You have nothing to be ashamed of. WW should have been more careful of sharing her affections with another man, if she's so "sensitive" to her family's opinions.

BX-Listen to every word these people tell you to do. My situation is different from yours only slightly but we are brothers in this all the way. All these posters have saved me hours of pain by leading down the best possible path. I have read the SAA book and its genius is in the methodology to saving a marriage. Im only 5+ weeks from dday and I have made this peer group the ONLY people I listen to and go to for advice. I gave up on my psychologist after 2 visits. They know whats in your head. And, they will force you to go against anything in your head thats not productive in the saving of your marriage. I know none of this people who post here personally, but I love them.

", I'm now not invited and was told it's not a good idea since we aren't in a good place, it would be too hard to put on a happy face in front of all the family."

who said you are not invited??? your WW?? Plulease

you better go, and you better look great, dote all over your children, and keep a smile on you face the whole time. they all need to see that you are the strong one and you have nothing to hide!

I was in the same spot a week after dday number 3-10 (someone still needs to figure out my sig line). i was nervous about going but was encouraged to do so by some folks here, the SIL's were quite shocked, no one said a word!! and to be honest, i felt great!

Who uninvited you? Your WW? You can explain to her that you are absolutely going and you're taking the children. Let her know that family is very important to you (leaving it unsaid that obviously she can't say the same thing).

Go, and be at your level, calm best. Let them see this pillar of strength who will fight for his marriage.

If you stay home it will appear that you are 'family' only when times are good. You'll also get the 'poor BX' sympathy vote - and you don't want to be pitied! Go there and show everyone the strong man your wife married!

Yes, WW told me not to go. After reading this, I'M GOING even if I have to drive myself for two hours. Thanks for the advice and confidence!

My wife just told me that she called her attorney today and told her to draw up divorce papers. I should have them Monday. What the he'll do I do now?! There is no separation, straight to divorce for her.

Besides contacting a lawyer for yourself, NOTHING immediately. Until the last signature is in place, it has little/no bearing on your efforts to repair your marriage.

That said, steel yourself to be absolutely ruthless on every point brought up during the negotiations.

What to do? Go to the weekend things with your kids and be your awesome self. Today is Friday, right? No worries.

This is the weekend plan. LISTEN to others about those papers as I've nothing, but others will.

P.S.> "My wife just told me"...really? Blah. Ignore. Divorce papers in 24 or 48 hours? Really...filed Thurs and served Monday? Am I crazy or is this not going to happen?

Listen to NG, and, what the he-l kind of shoddy divorce papers are drawn up on a Friday and served on a Monday? On second thought...
hmmm.


Will defer to NG and the others here.

I suppose it doesn't really matter when I get divorce papers. I will get divorce papers sooner or later. Knowing that, how am I supposed to pretend I'm not getting divorced? This will happen if I know my wife.

She is "checked out" and doesn't want to check back in. She "doesn't want to try anymore."

What the hell am I supposed to do? Keep being the model husband that anyone woman would be want to be married to? If so, how emotionally?

Am I supposed to just do a 180 and be the cold heartless man to her but still adore my kids? I am so confused.

Hang on, BX, OK? Just hang on as more help will be on the way.

While here and waiting for Vets and peers, those papers mean nothing. Paper means nothing until you sign em', so don't sweat that (easy to say, I know). You're not getting divorced until you say you're getting divorced. Hang on until the A.M., OK?

Stand by...

I don't know you Surfer but I trust you.

you can drag a divorce out for a long time just by not signing the paperwork. Look up the laws in your state but most of the time they have to serve the papers (that will not be overnight) then you have so many days before you either sign them or you counter sue. Just google divorce laws in your state. It might make you feel alittle better knowing it will not happen as quick as she thinks unless you give up and sign.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the affair is over. That's the good news I suppose. For all the people questioning exposures effectiveness, don't.

It ended when I exposed and there has been zero contact from either party. I reviewed the cell phone and pc.

"after a couple of days of no contact with X, I realized that when I didn't come running back to you that I didn't love you anymore..."

If you did expose the affair then the divorce-talk is understandable. She tries to punish you for ruining her affair.

Couple of days of no contact means nothing. The fog will start to clear after several months of total no contact.

The sentence you gave is fog-babble and should be fully ignored.

Keep being the model MAN that any woman would want to be married to. Keep being a model man from now until your very last breath. Commit to it. Obviously, being the best man you can possibly be encompasses being the best husband you can be. But you'll still be that man if the day should come that you are no longer a husband.

BX,

Thanks for trusting MB! Let me see if I can help recap so that you get sound advice here in response to �what the hell am I supposed to do?�

-You exposed, and A is over according to your WW, BIL, etc.?
-Was it full, nuclear exposure done? Meaning everyone?
-NC letter sent? (Not sure about this...I think this was never �officially� sent, right?)
-She is still living in your home, correct?
-She is angry, spewing bullypoo, and says you will be served D papers on Monday?
-You ARE going to this family event this weekend, correct?

If the above is all true, then what I think needs to happen is this:

Plan A, all the way. You've read SAA and the Carrot/Stick, yes? Dr. Harley via others here state than men should Plan A for up to 6 months if you can do that. �If you can do that� means if you can keep your LB at a decent level for that long. Be the soft place for WW to land as she goes through withdrawal from the A, but keep snooping, and verify everything you are told. If/when you find NC has been broken, come here and ask what your next step is, OK? For now, Plan A. Be her Knight, but NOT her doormat. Careful of that! Meet the top 4 ENs as much as possible and get her LB$ built back up. As Curious said, you focus on being the best husband you can and will be.

That said, I would expect (and Recon said) that you are going to hear a lot of waffling from WW...one day D, the next she's sorry, and in between things like ILYBNILWY, doesn't see any hope, she hates herself, OM, you, she's not worthy of life, kids, you again, repeat... Let her puke all of that out (sorry), but just hold her hair. Do not engage in arguments.

Response to alien withdrawal outbursts? Scotty's mantra altered from cookie to pasta as I don't like sweets :

�I will do what I have to to save this marriage because I love you and our family. Want some alfredo?�

BX, just take one goal at a time and follow the plan to meet each goal.

One thing about MB, and I didn't intend for this to be so long...sorry! Many BS and WS come here to �blog� initially, and get spooked because they don't expect such immediate direction to help climb their way out of the mess they're in. It's hard to see, because I've been reading here for over 3 years and the insane likeness for almost each situation is so consistent. For others, well they've been here helping for 10+ years!

I am SO happy for you that you are taking steps to save your M, and that you are hearing what folks that have been exactly where you are are saying. You have tremendous support here. Stick with it, OK?

Yea for you!

Surfer, to answer your questions:

I did go nuclear on exposure, yes everyone.
There has been no NC letter. She wouldn't sign or send.
Yea, I'm living at home. Indiff. Bed room but still at home.
Yes, I should have divorce papers this week. My wife isn't the type for veiled threats. I will have them soon.
I did not go to my family trip this weekend. I was asked not to go because she was going to address nuclear exposure. I got a call from her dad and he was hysterical (I love you. I'm sorry, etc).

Why are you letting your WW dictate to you? Why would you let her go there alone and talk about this very important marital topic without you? Why did you not go and present yourself as the Man of the House??

I was uninvited by her mother and step dad to come. They wanted to be alone to discuss things with their daughter. I suppose WW told them before hand.

I pointed out that I've been doing more around the house, complimenting her, leaving notes, giving her some days off from the kids, listening to her, etc, etc. She said, "You should be helping around the house, you live here."

She's 100% correct on this one. You sound very needy when you complain about this!

I can tell from reading the thread.....
the affair is not over.

Exposure hit it hard but you are far from this being at a point where you can see whether there is potential to recover a romantic marriage with her or not.

She is peeved at you cause you messed up the fantasy.

Now, either you continue doing plan A (no lovebusting no matter what she throws your way. Stand up for yourself but do not have angry outbursts, disprespectful judgements, selfish demands...vs matter of fact ones).

Passive resistance to any of her requests to deal in divorce stuff.

Do not stoke the drama she wants to stir up. Disengage. Kindness. Matter of factness. Disengagement from drama.

Unless you decide you are done with her.

No matter what her family says about it either after talking with her.
"blah, blah, blah, blah says it was over a long time ago. Blah, blah, blah you need to blank".

Your response "I can see why, after speaking with her, you would feel that way. I will continue to hope my marriage can recover and be better than ever with the right guidance. I love her and am committed to our marriage. Thank you for your support (even if it sounds like there isn't any!"

ditto. Reading hit the nail on the head! Initially they are probably both embarassed for her, and feel some need to protect her a bit, but that could be b/c she may have already done the "wayward prep" by saying bad things about you TO THEM behind your back.

My xwh did that. That's what I call it. When they pre-empt fallout from their own selfish actions by trying to make the BS out to be a monster or she-beast so that when everybody finds out about the affair they won't 1)be mad at the wayward or 2)accept the vile affair partner.

I really think this goes on alot imho. I know when I first did exposure to my xwh's family, he did the "wayward prep" with his friends (very few) and with his family.

So the WW and kids got back a little bit ago and we sit down to talk. She proceeds to tell me that yesterday was as emotional as any she has ever had including the day I found out. She went up there and told them everything about the affair and telling them that she was going to divorce me (confirmed by her dad).

Long story short, only her dad tries to talk her out of it divorce while her mom and brother obviously support her in whatever she wants to do (divorce). They did not condone affair.

Anyway, she proceeds to tell me she is confused and I ask if she still intends to go through divorce and she says she doesn't know but right now, yes.

It's been a great Father's day...can you detect my sarcasm?

Do not discuss divorce with her.
Don't.
Say nothing.
If she files....say nothing.
Respond via an attorney you might hire for yourself, without telling her about it.

Do not interact with her on these conversations. It will do you no good. It feeds into her whole world view.

Be strong and loving to the children. Be open to rebuilding the marriage
but in plan A, stop talking about affair, stop talking about divorce. You have told her the affair must end and there can be no contact with affair partner. She knows already.

If and when you go to a plan B........you will have given it your all and it will have to play out from there. Then, you can always file for divorce yourself if you are done with her. Really done with her and prefer not to put any work into rebuilding yourself. It would be a lot of work. There has to be enough love left to be willing to try.

No one ever said life was fair. Here I am, a good person, loving father of two beautiful little kids, never cheated and now my WW wants a divorce. Doesn't even want to separate first. Says she can't see herself ever loving me again and ILYBINILWY.

Obviously I contributed to this mess (taking my wife for granted sometimes, not talking as much as I should, etc.) but I certainly didn't cause this. I'm guilty of having a "normal" marriage with its regular ups and downs.

She lives in this make believe world where everyone and everything will be fine if we divorce, including us and our kids. She is so selfish right now...

I didn't understand it on D-day (late April) and don't understand it now Life is really unfair sometimes. It's a shame when bad things happen to good people.

BX,

Yep, you're right. People can suck big time. People do suckie things. Yep, you are a good person, and you've been dealt a pretty sh-tty hand. I am so sorry for that! And, I'm sorry that you are here at all. Really. It's ufnair that you are in your situation at all, but...here you are. Blows.

>>>>>>post here, but never lose your direction, OK? Come back and post, OK? You said you trust me? Just trust what you hear as I try to only direct to the right place ....these people know EXACTLY what you are feeling, knowing, and experiencing.

Stay right here, OK?

P.S. the puke of ILYBINILWY is NORMAL. Let it slide...

I'm not going anywhere. You all have been my rock and I appreciate all the free advice. I'm glad you all don't charge by the hour or I would be POOR!

I might get 2 x 4 for this, but you might also have a look at the Recovery Thread called "Men's Recovery", or something like that. There are a group of guys that are either exactly where you are, or just ahead of you. And, I mean JUST ahead of you by just a few months. I think you'll find a tremedous amount of mental/emotional support there, and trust that they'll already know your story. This is a very small community for those that stick with it.

Try that? You are no where near Recovery, but reach out there, perhaps? Don't start a new thread...just reach out and say that you are on SAA. They already know you...I know.

Whoo hoo!

It's the link in my sig.

Recovering, recovered, in the thick, or divorcing, all are welcome.

I started it to help myself and other men begin to recover ourselves - to become better husbands, sons, fathers, and friends.

Current focus is resilience.

Part of defogging a WW is letting her know that a divorce will neither be pleasant or fun. This means that you should file first if you�re 100% certain she�s going to file.

When you do, do so without mercy. File on the grounds of adultery and request spousal support and sole physical and legal custody.

Make it completely clear that the path of divorce will not be pleasant.

A big part of the WW fantasy is that you and her will be friends after a D and that you will have some Hollywood version of divorce where kids are happy to have their parents apart and the two exes get along splendidly as if living out a sitcom.

Nothing can be further from the truth and part of the problem a BS faces is the partial buy in to this reality.

Playing nice will not win back your WW.

This is what the carrot and stick of plan A involves.

Any talk of divorce should be deflected and resisted while making it abundantly clear that the path of D is ugly. The path of reconciliation, however, should be much more welcoming, which is where you have the responsibility of executing a great Plan A.

So act like the husband she wants you to be. Make the house welcoming and be warm and friendly. But don�t engage in divorce talk unless it is simply to make it clear that going down the path will be a battle that neither one of you wish to go through or put the kids through.

A WW will manipulate things and tell you that making things easier is best for the kids and that you don�t wish to damage your relationship with each other in order to make things easier for them.

It�s a fantasy. Don�t fall for it.

I fell for it, which is where my advice comes from. My greatest mistake was in not making the path of divorce difficult. Doing so would have put me in a much better position with my kids.

So don�t settle and believe the lies.

Also, a lot of her divorce talk could very well be bluffing on her part.

Unfortunately I live in a no fault state. The judge couldn't care less who cheated on whom.

You may be right, but the objective isn�t to be effective legally. The objective is to shock the crap out of your wife. Will you get sole custody? No. Would adultery hold up without evidence? No.

But seeing it in writing, along with requests for child support and spousal support, has a shattering effect on the fantasy world of a WW. You see, a WW doesn�t know anymore about the law than you do unless she�s a lawyer herself.

So take advantage of this ignorance.

I had that same ignorance and believed that I would never see my kids as a man since the general consensus is that men don�t get custody. That�s not true at all. Men can and do get custody if they�re smart.

So the objective is one of psychological warfare, not of legal effectiveness.

BXB just getting back from vacation. Trying to catch up. Keep on the solid A and keep snooping. This isn't over by a long shot so chin up. No fault states have fault filings so just get creative if you have to...IE Mental cruelty (actually the truth) ETC. IF and IF it comes to it and you know she is filing. Till then plan A all day. This is still the war and its just a battle.

Question on another topic. If you aren't supposed to talk about affair how do you all gauge the status of your relationship? My wife doesn't ever want to discuss us or when we do it is a very short conversation (I'm not badgering). I'd like to know about us, how are we doing, am I satisfying your needs etc. but when I bring it up, the conversation stops.

Do I just need to drop it until she brings it up or just keep being positive statements about us and our kids? Make sense?

If you aren't supposed to talk about affair how do you all gauge the status of your relationship? Do I just need to drop it until she brings it up or just keep being positive statements about us and our kids? Make sense?

Well, gee, BX, how many HUNDREDS of us out here giving you the same answer will it take before you'll consent to listen to us?

To review:

16 June 2011: Yes, WW told me not to go. After reading this, I'M GOING even if I have to drive myself for two hours.
18 June 2011: I did not go to my family trip this weekend. I was asked not to go because she was going to address nuclear exposure. I got a call from her dad and he was hysterical (I love you. I'm sorry, etc).

And this was after EVERYBODY here told you how important it was for you to stand up AS A MAN, and take your proper place at this family gethering. Instead you folded your hand like a greenhorn when she bluffed you with that "I'm going to talk to a lawyer," crap. Do you know NOTHING about women? Do you NOT realize she was HOPING you'd kick down her house of cards and tell her that you have rights and expectations for your life, and will demand that they be respected? Seriously, after her lawyer hissy-fit on Friday, what could she possibly threaten you with if you went to the in-laws? Another lawyer? A better lawyer?

Grow up, grow a pair, and start to fight! Plan A is a method of fighting (her mindset). It is not Plan Bend-Over-Grab-And-Spread-Your-Cheeks!

Your wife is trying to scare you away from interfering with her affair. I don't think the OMW knows and I wonder if the "brother" is really the OM.

What has come of your workplace exposure? HOW did you expose and to WHOM?

Have you exposed the affair to all of her family? Have her parents spoken to her?

See, I do not believe the affair is over and you have to do a more comprehensive exposure at work and to the OMW. I find it very odd that her workplace would send her on a business trip to meet up with the OM if they really know about her affair.

Many no fault states DO take adultery into account. Have you really looked into this?

The end is near. I was paying bills today and saw where a $2500 check was cashed today made payable to my wife's attorney. My wife proceeds to tell me that it is her retainer. She then asks me where the papers should be delivered to me or my attorney. I politely told her my attorney and then excused myself. My wife doesn't bluff...

BX, don't despair, this is far from over. I think she is doing this to get you off her back and scare you into submission. Have you moved and hidden your money so she doesn't wipe you out? I would move your money and take her off any credit cards now.

p.s. I would also look into getting a great father's rights attorney. Do you have an attorney?

Yes, I have an attorney and have moved money into an account that she doesn't know about yet (as far as I know). Unfortunately, her brother is our financial advisor so he can see that money was removed from our account.

This is an expensive scare...

BX, did you expose this affair? To whom?

I exposed to my wife's family, OM's family including his wife. Didn't expose to job yet...I know, I know what you are going to say, finish it. I have been saving my bullets.

I have been monitoring cell phone calls and email as bet I can and there has been no contact that I can tell. Wife also says it's over but we all know that could be a lie.

At what point do you accept the affair is over especially if the wife doesn't send a NC letter? She isn't sending a NC letter because she says it's over. I am getting a VAR for her car once she gets back from her sales meting...that should confirm my suspensions.

You can begin to accept that the affair is over when they no longer work for the same company. That isn't going to happen until you expose at the workplace.

What are you saving your bullets for?

You seem determined to try and combat this affair your own way. That doesn't seem to be bringing you success. Have you noticed that yet?

On June 9th you were asked

You replied

Today you said

So what is going on here? Are you playing games with this board?

You were also told to speak to OMW in person, since there is a possibility that the Facebook message to her was intercepted by OM. I cannot see that you have pursued this.

Your wife has paid a retainer to a divorce lawyer. She seems to be serious about leaving you. Are you serious about ending this affair?

When an affair is inside your wire & overrunning your marriage, you don't save your bullets for a tomorrow that may not come. Figuratively-speaking, you empty the damned chamber, and then you jam in another magazine & empty it again, & again, until you're out of ammo & the gun-barrel's too hot to touch. A curtain of fire is more effective than "trickle-exposure."

Trickle exposures usually are just enough to piss off the affairee but not enough to end the affair. It pissed her off just enough to come after you.

If you are serious about saving your marriage you should expose this affair completely and thorougly ASAP with no reservations. Don't bring a pea shooter to a gun fight, my friend, you will just get your [censored] shot off.

Dont be afraid to tell the truth if you didnt follow advice. But be honest or these great peeps cant help you.
Now get it done nothing left to save a bullet for if she has already retained a L.
Your clock is ticking...tick...tock

Am I the only person that believes that an affair can die "naturally"? Meaning that one of the wayward spouses sees the error of his/her ways and decides to not pursue it anymore. Can a person decide that they have made a bad decision on their own? If you expose to family of everyone involved can they not assist in ending an affair? Am I being totally naive?

I'm not questioning the effectiveness of everyones advice. I've visited this site for a while and followed almost all of the advice (except exposure to work). I know what is at stake by not exposing to her work and I am prepared for the ramifications of that. I want everyone to know that I value your opinions and will continue to ask for advice and hopefully I get more.

This, in addition to the reality that my wife wants a divorce, I need to sit for a bit and focus on my plan for the future and not worry about everything else. Isn't that part of Plan A? I'm alone this week with my kids and I'm going to treasure the time together.

I may get divorce papers this week, I may not. If I do, I know that I did my best to try and save my marriage by being a great husband and father for the last 2 months. If my WW doesn't appreciate these things and believes the grass is greener alone (eight people I have spoken to and trust says its over, again I may be dumb) then so be it.

There are people who are destined to be together. But until both people want the same thing (trusting and loving marriage) then we can't to it alone. Right now I am doing it alone and will keep doing it until we reconcile or she decides she doesn't love me anymore and ends this herself. You all know by now that we can't change someone as much as we try or want to.

The crack addict does not, barring a life-changing event (sometimes even then) suddenly decide that he does not want to get high anymore.

You have to rip the crack pipe out of their hands.

You are being TOTALLY naive....(coming from a former WW...)
You are discounting the addiction factor.
She wants a divorce, because of the affair.

She needs you to be the hero -- and instead you are gonna let her figure it out for herself. Nice. That is NOT a great husband in my book.

You're gonna do it "your way". Good Luck.

The only way I see that you could possibly skip exposing in the workplace is IF they didn't work together. I believe all affairs die naturally sooner or later IF the BS doesn't kill it themselves. Most AP's find out pretty quickly that after the thrill is gone so is the attraction and the compatibility. So if your willing to chance that its your life and your Wife. Experience is a good teacher and DrH has plenty, surviving an A is already a long shot. By not following the narrow path your stacking the odds to not be in your favor.
Remember the thrill you first had with your first girlfriend? Could anyone separate you from her then? No, you would walk through broken glass barefoot to see her. So will a wayward. EN's are so powerful that we will ruin our childrens/family's lives to have them met. In many ways much stronger than crack/drug addictions. We will give up wonderful careers all of our money, our homes our cars. We cant survive without them being met for very long!
If I was you I would be fighting mad at this POSOM and he would feel my wrath at his work and all his co-workers would know what he and my WW was up too. I would strike him financially, emotionally and seek to destroy him. But hey that's just me.

BX - My WH is raging at me still after my exposure almost three months ago. He feels I am vendictive, revengeful and everything else in the book. He is military and it did put a big "X" in his career and OW's career.

They are coming home from deployment, and I just sent another facebook email to all his colleagues, friends, OW, and OW's family stating again I am willing to fight to the very end for my marriage. I have eight eyeballs that are staring at me and I am doing it for them.

According to my WH he wants a divorce, and it looks like it is heading in that direction. I am in a dark Plan B and today really do not care if I am divorced. Granted I would love to save my marriage, but I cannot do it without him. Everything is in his hands. He is just super pizzed because the truth is out and he doesn't know how to control it. He hates our kids know why he broke up the family, and he hates that all his friends, soldiers, grandmother, and her family know about this sordid affair. It is all his making. He can hate me as much as he wants. I don't own any of this - it is just the truth coming out, and I have all the evidence to back it up.

Kill the reality of this thing TODAY - EXPOSE!!!!

Even though my WH is spewing hate at me because I exposed I wouldn't change anything. Because I am changing me and making myself the best wife on the planet. I am learning to get rid of AO's and DJ's and I am losing so much weight I will be sexier than before we got married. I am getting hit on a lot these days and that hasn't happened in years. There must be something different to me. I think I am glowing today.

I am taking MB's advice with exposure. He is livid and I am happy. OW is spewing her hate at him to have him keep his wife under control. Don't care anymore.

1) Maybe I do get divorced and go on to live an amazing life, remarry a new husband, or stay single and live in utter happiness.

2) Maybe I do get divorced and remarry my WH down the road.

3) Maybe my WH comes out of his fog soon and we never get divorced.

I am okay will three options.

Exposure is the best tool you have.

BX,

Remember me?

Trust...do what's right for you, but trust the folks here. If you hear nothing else TODAY (it's a lot, I know) HEAR what Lexxxy said.

Re-read that, and don't underestimate!

Everything else follows...

No. But so can an injured marriage, if left untreated.

If your preferred outcome is to save your marriage, then having your wife's affair die "naturally" will only help you if it happens before you go through the financial & emotinal hell of a divorce. And it sounds like time's not on your side.

Some people recover from serious diseases or infections "naturally", but lots of times it requires outside (medical) intervention to hasten the process & lessen the long-term damage, or even to prevent death. Often, people who choose to forego antibiotics will end up dead before they beat off a serious infection.

For affairs, full exposure is that intervention. If OM's name becomes "mud" in the office, then he may end up looking a lot less compelling to her. And if your wife starts looking to him like "career trouble", then that sort of clouds the issue for him as well. All of this is prone to put stress on an affair.

But it's your call to make.

You asked:

"Am I the only person that believes that an affair can die "naturally"? Meaning that one of the wayward spouses sees the error of his/her ways and decides to not pursue it anymore."

I say:

Yes, you are. The 2 people can part ways, but the affair will live on in another person eventually. Why? Back to addiction. The drug dealer can go to jail. Damn that crappy drug dealer! But, another one is soon to follow because the EN addiction is still front and center. The attack is NOT on the dealer (collateral damage :)), but the addiction. See?

That said...I'd still be attacking the first drug dealer and wiping him out via exposure.

Am I the only person that believes that you are scared to death of the work involved in saving your M and are waiting until your W is tired of boinking OM?

You will be very unhappy with the outcome by going the 'wait and hope' route. But your WW and OM sure will be happy! I hope that's what your goal is.

I'd like to ask a question about individual counseling. How do the sessions/calls work with Steve? I guess my questions are as follows:

1. Can I dictate what I want my first session is about? For example, my wife feels like she can never find love with me again, sees no future, loves me but is not in love with me, etc. Can Steve address specific issues in a session?
2. In the first session, do we have to go through the whole history of our marriage and affair and take up the first half talking and that leaves 10 minutes for Steve to talk about his methods, the 10 basic concepts, etc.?
3. I want Steve to address divorce and how tragic it is for family, friends, my small kids, let my WW that we can fix our marriage and make it better than before. Can he do that in 45 minutes?
4. Is there a "pre call" or "pre screening" with Steve or someone on staff to discuss goals of a 45 minute session? Or is there a questionnaire?
5. What is the turnaround time on a call from first contact?

My wife has not even agreed to talk to him yet so I was just wondering about the above. Thanks for any information.

BX, Steve will counsel you alone, without your wife. They don't counsel couples together. What he will do is talk to you alone and get your perspective. He will then tell you what to say to your W to get her on the phone with him for the next session.

If she does, then the next sessions might be split sessions, with you on first and her on second. [out of earshot of the other]

What he essentially does is sell your wife on a plan of recovery. He will tell her exactly how he can restore the romantic love in your marriage and try to get her to agree to go through the steps. He is very persuasive.

I believe he has you fill out questionaires beforehand and send them in.

He is often late to his sessions because he doesn't quit when the time is up. He quits when he is finished with you. It is very common for his sessions to go for 2 hours. [and he doesn't charge more either]

we counsel with jennifer and the first call with me was great, update for 20 min or so, they have heard it all, so she got the gist pretty quick.

my h didnt know who i was talking to the first time, he prob thought my lawyer.

turn around was 2 days, they gave me a choice on who was avail, she had the first open session.

you will be amazed at how much they get in in the hour.

my h was totally hesitant! but he said he would do it for me, he was hooked, what she said to him the first time made a complete change in him and a seriousness of the severity of the situation. wake up call, not that he didnt have one the week before but this gave him direction and hope.

we each do a part seprately, then we come together, but we are a bunch of sessions into it.

do it for yourself.

chickadee, you come together to discuss the homework, right? In my experience with Dr Harley, we counseled with him ALONE and then only came together to discuss the homework assignment. And I don't think he even does that initially because he doesn't want to give conflicted couples the chance to lovebust.

What times do they have sessions? Can they talk after regular "work" hours or even later (8:00).

My wife probably won't do it because "there's no hope" and her one therapy session the shrink told her therapy wouldn't do any good if she wasn't 100% committed to making our marriage work. Right now, she isn't.

yes, but we even practice a bit with her. we are working on our diagnosticnow. she does go into recaping what my H is supposed to do, so there is a bit of accountability i think.


it took a few session before that, in the begining it was ALONE time then homework and a pep talk.

we always start alone, for the update and to see if more has gone one.

I look forward to it as does H. i think she is leaving us soon... we were once a week for a bit now we are moving to monthly.

i had a question for you, what do you think is the diff between them, other than the obv. do you think a male coach to a female WS is better or a female to a WS. I dont think it made a diff to us but i should as H.

call now bx, you will not regret it and its not embarassing at all, look you have nothing to lose at all, all to gain

I guess my though is, I already know about the basic concepts, Love Bank, POJA, etc. I really just want my WW to get on board. I'm hoping a different voice will convey that there is hope if she will just allow it and be receptive to my Plan A.

Why do I need to talk to them if I'm the one wanting to save my marriage? Is it because they are going to tell me what to say to her to get to talk to them and she will then hear a plan? I feel like I would be "wasting" $ since I'm already on board.

You need to talk to him so he can coach you on how to motivate your wife to get on phone. He isn't trying to get YOU on board, he will try to help you engage your wife and give you a plan to do that. He will give you a situation assessment and a PLAN to save your marriage.

The difference from my second hand perspective [I didn't counsel with them, but with Dr Harley via the seminar] is that Dr Chalmers is more laid back and does better with couples who are BOTH on board. SMB and tst counseled with her and she did a SUPER job. They are in a fully recovered marriage.

Steve seems to be better at selling the RELUCTANT spouses. He also has a super ability to pinpoint lies and fogbabble. Steve is VERY persuasive and very persistent according to all accounts. I know of one case, for example, where a very fogged out WH did not want to end his affair. The WH had a traveling job and Steve influenced him to start taking his wife on his trips and he did!!

This perspective is what I have gleaned from others around here over the years.

So my marriage really is over. I decided to get a VAR and put it in WW's car. I've been recording for a little les than a week now and I heard multiple conversations with WW's sister. She told her sister that her affair was over (VAR confirms) but she doesn't love me anymore. She said she was planning on having divorce papers delivered/served to the house on Friday but didn't want the neighbors seeing a cop car. So she is going to have then delivered this week.

She sits me down tonight and volunteers everything that was on the VAR. She doesn't feel it between us anymore, doesn't love me anymore, wants to move on with her life, etc.

I of course told her that I don't want a divorce, I want stronger marriage and everything else in Plan A. But, it looks like this one belongs in the record books as another WW who cheated on her good husband and wants to leave him for what she thinks is a better life (alone). She has little regard for our two small kids, friends, family etc.

If there is any other advice you all can give I would appreciate it. I have been planning for this but it still hurts knowing your wife doesn't love you anymore.

Have you exposed to her workplace yet?

No. I don't need to now. It's (EA and our marriage) over.

call the harleys. ask her to do that for you- a divorce will cost more, after that if she still wants to go thru with it put the cost of it in the settlement, you will pay her back for trying to save your marrige.

i am not an expert on Waywards-- but the experts will tell you thats wayward speak.

i have hope for you, really! hang in there and stay her!

Suck it up, Jack.

If you submit it's definitely over. Stand up and fight.

BX,

No, it's not unless you say it is. Are you folding your hand?

No one here will blame you if that's the case. I'm just asking you directly: are you done with your wife and family as it stands today in that you are ready to divorce your wife?

I have been watching this thread to see how this will play out, but I feel like I need to add my two cents...

#1: The phone call to the sister sounds fishy. We all know waywards lie...maybe she found the VAR? maybe she is lying to her sister? IMO, waywards are like monkeys...they don't let go of one branch until they have another one to swing to. Think about it this way..whether you believe it or not, ya'lls marriage does have value to her....time, children, etc...she is not going to let that go unless she perceives that she is letting it go for something of greater value. No way she just goes off into the wild blue yonder with no idea of what tomorrow holds. The whole figure things out by myself and just be alone is laughable.....waywards were not content with the positive input from their spouse and had to seek out an AP....and now they are independent and self-sufficient enough to go into the nunnery/priesthood?

2: You desperately need to expose to her work. My gut feeling is that this affair has gone way underground or she plans to rekindle it once you are apart. Exposure at work will kill this fantasy real quick. And if you won't do it for your marriage, at least have the kindness to do it for someone else's...you never know how your actions could affect someone down the road. If more people were exposed to the consequences and general ugliness of infidelity, maybe it would not look so tempting.

Of course I'm not ready to quit by my God, she doesn't want to be here anymore. I don't know how you all have the courage to keep going. Of course, I'm not ready to quit but she made it perfectly clear she doesn't want to be married anymore.

There is no reason to do plan a or b so what now? Just suck it up and be the strong one? I know what you all are going to say but it appears easier said than done. I'm more hurt now than I was two months ago on D-day.

Drscott, I'm confident she didn't find the recorder. Why would she lie to her sister? Now I'm the one in the fog!

Re: Workplace Exposure vs Your New Position

"Uhhhh, President Truman, for the 37th time, we urge you to use that really big weapon we've developed to end the conflict."

"No, gentlemen, I found a better way to end the strife and destruction. I'm going to surrender!"

BXB - I haven't read your thread, but you keep going because it's worth fighting for. If you have kids, this is worth fighting for; what kind of lessons do you want to teach them? The WS lesson - whenever things get tough, you run away. That's the general approach, along with I DESERVE to be happy. Well, to a certain extent that's true, but you shouldn't weave a trail of destruction for YOUR happiness. Bottomline, I don't want to work at my relationships. If I have to work at them, they're not worth it and it's easier to find a new (and shiny) one. Fast forward - and the pattern repeats - shiny is no longer shiny and new - now you have to make it 'work' and that's too hard....repeat...find shiny new one...

The BS lesson - stand and fight until you've exhausted ALL options. Believe in the greater family good; i.e. you're humiliated because of the A, but you're willing to work on the M, because it's worth fighting for. That's an alien concept to a WS. That way your conscience is clear. The lesson your kids learn - fight for what you believe in - and you might win (there's a lesson in forgiveness) - or if you 'lose' (D) then at least you know you did everything humanly possible to save it. You walk away with no regrets.

You only recently started this journey, your emotions are raw. That's understandable. Hunker down and fight - if it's worth fighting for. If it's not worth it - cut it off quick. Plan B/D immediately - get it done and over with. The longer you linger, the longer you'll be in an emotional he11. Trust me - I've plan Aed since February and I'm just now getting ready for plan B. That was my planned timeline - I love my WW so much, but now I've got to let her go. It's not easy - it's darn hard with a six year old.

Thank you for the pep talk. I knew the answer before I asked it. I've tried extremely hard to make this work but when both people aren't on the same page, it's nearly impossible. You can talk until you are blue in the face but it falls on deaf ears.

I said it before (just Luke a new post on the board) it's just not fair. My WW is clueless, selfish and has no regard for anyone but herself. We have two beautiful girls (4 and 2) that are going to be affected.

WW thinks everything will be ok and we'll still be friends. Last night she actually gave me a hug like this was no big deal and just texted me asking if I needed anything at the grocery. I wish I could go through life as clueless as she is.

Having been divorced before you feel like you can do better the next time and that you learn to be a better husband. But life throws kids, jobs health issues your way and you "forget" what being a husband or wife really is.

I just need to keep working on me and being the best dad and husband I can. That way I will know I did my best. I just need to suck it up like HoldHerHand said. I'm just feeling sorry for myself even though this isn't my fault.

Thanks again for all the posters help.

The better question would be "Why wouldn't she lie to her sister?"...being a WS involves becoming very comfortable with lying. First, you lie to yourself and rewrite marital history to justify the affair, then you lie to your spouse to conduct the affair, and it snowballs from there.

Of course she is going to lie to her family. The truth is too ugly..and some family members don't want to know the truth because it is all so dark and ugly. In fact, to this day my serial cheating ex's family think I am a jealous control freak, in spite of mounds of evidence produced+U.S.A.W. brought one of her AP's to a family New Year's party. It is a lot easier and more comfortable for the family to believe that I am jealous and crazy vs. the reality.

Yes, you did nothing wrong and did not deserve this. I have been where you are at and I am sorry for, and sympathize with your extreme duress. But the bottom line is that you have a responsibility to expose to her job...not an easy thing to do, I had two employers to expose to, and it was difficult on many levels. Once you have exposed like this, you will truly understand that it is not out of revenge, it is just the right thing to do for your marriage and society in general. If you truly want to save your marriage, workplace exposure is a must! And, I repeat, if not for your marriage, then think of others you may be helping by you standing up for what is right and demonstrating the potential consequences of an affair. The saying about "the only way for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" comes to mind.

EXPOSE THE WORKPLACE

You keep going because you have to keep going. It sounds like its time to prepare for Plan B. It seems to me everything she is saying is still typical wayward stuff. Do it for your kids.

Mehr, after seeing your sig line you certainly a strong person. My thoughts and prayers are with you. My wife isn't leaving the house and I'm not either so we are at a stand still.

Plan A and B will prepare you for if the marriage does end.

It'll make you feel better in the end.

It will make you feel you gave it your best.

Plan B helps YOU wean off the marriage too. A very useful thing if you do wind up divorcing.

You can get her out of the house. You plan A while she is there and then use legal measures for her to leave to implement plan B.

Stupid question, how do you get your WW out of the house legally when her name is on the mortgage in a no fault state?

You will need to contact a lawyer in your state to get that question answered.

Time to lawyer up, my friend. One way to defog her is to let her see that divorce will be a nasty affair full of unknowns.

She imagines in her head, as all WW'es do, that you will have an amicable divorce, get along splendidly after you D, and that the children will frolic in green fields full of rainbows filled by the love of her and her new man.

Destroy that image. Get a lawyer now and file before she does. Filing first lets you control the pace and allows you to withdraw the petition to divorce, resetting the whole process and forcing her to file if she wants to pursue it.

File on grounds of adultery. If you can't do that, then do it on grounds of mental cruelty.

Then file a lawsuit against OM, if you can.

you need to ask for everything in your petition: Child support, spousal support, all your stuff, etc. Let her know you're willing to take everything if necessary.

Will you? No. You won't. But this is psychological warfare. The objective is to defog her and protect yourself.

I didn't even think about a lawsuit against OM. Brilliant! I spoke to my attorney yesterday so I'm good there.

BXB Did you ever expose the workplace...if not your getting way behind as now shes telling everyone your a nutjob and shes gonna D you. Oh well.

helpthelostdads,
She beat me to it. Her attorney called mine asking to try the case in a different county. I said no because where we live I would have a male judge and she wants to try it where we work with a woman judge. So already, small victory for me (if there is such a thing). To address your other statements, she filed before me, I cannot sue on the grounds of adultery or mental cruelty. Also, I can't sue the other man, he lives out of state and my state is a no fault state.

Hilsmonemoretime, no I did not expose the workplace. I napalmed his A$$ with exposure and he stopped calling/texting. Since that time, I have spoken to everyone on my exposure list (mom, dad, brother, sister, etc. except the wife, she won't take my call.) My WW proceeds to tell me last night that it's also over and has been since the day I exposed. No VAR recordings of them together.

The OM probably decided it wasn't worth it since he is 4 states away and only saw her once or twice a year anyway. He also deleted his Facebook account. Finally, no tesxt or emails from him since that time.

Last night she had the nerve to ask me what we were going to tell our friends about all this. I told them if ANYONE asks, I was going to tell them the truth. She then says that I am going to ruin her reputation and run her name through the mud (that shold go on the other link about stupid things WW says). Anyway, I laugh and tell her that she should have thought about that a year ago and that "if she plays in dirt, she is going to get dirty." (McNulty from the tv show The Wire). She says now I'm just being a di&k.

Thought from the forum? Is that a di&k move to voulnteer that information to anyone that asks of should I play mister nice guy and just say it didn't work out? (I say the former)

Honesty is a policy of character. You answer your own question :)PORH leads to a lifestyle in all areas of your life.
OM plot and scheme with AP if they are "in Love" so dont rule him out. This is still relatively young. I know its tough but you can do this if you still want it.

Hils, I'm still snooping hard. The instant I sense anything fishy I will expose. I will do it, I promise. This isn't your typical EA so I didn't expose to work yet because I knew this would end (they work for same company but in different divisions).

This is just more sad than anything. Reality set in today as my WW filed for divorce and has a realtor at my house nowtelling us how much to list our house for.

How can I keep from strangling her for being so selfish, stupid and ruining the lives of our family and my two young kids? (I'm not going to do it, I'm only kidding.) She's still mad because I exposed and made her look like a fool and embarrassed her.

To address your other statements, she filed before me, I cannot sue on the grounds of adultery or mental cruelty.

On what grounds did she base her suit?

Of course, in defending yourself, it may become necessary to offer countervailing evidence to what claims she makes. This may, of course entail testimony about her damaging-to-marital-happiness actions. She is aware of this, yes?

She filed on the grounds that our marriage is "irretrievably (sp?) broken". (My state is a no fault state.) My attorney told me to bring all proof I had when I dropped off my retainer agreement. I have about 30 email exchanges from them.

The realtor my wife selected just left us a stack of comps and we are going to lose our a$$ on this house.

I think a little dose of reality just hit WW. She said this is one of the worst days in her life.

You can still plan A, but you must emphasize to your lawyer that you want to drag this out as long as possible, that you want to counter on the grounds of mental cruelty (or find a reason, you can always find a reason), and ask for EVERYTHING.

That will be a hard dose of reality as well.

Here's the thing:

She's lashing out at you because you ruined her affair. Now she's thinks this is the way.

What do you do?

It's easy to descend into mud slinging and get nasty. This won't recover your marriage. You must very strictly separate marriage talk from divorce talk.

If she wants to talk divorce, you say, "My lawyer talks divorce. I'll talk about how to rebuild our marriage. Want to watch a movie (take a walk/have dinner together/bake cookies/play with the kids/have some friends over).

Be friendly, nice, and not overly affectionate. If anything, keep the affection to a minimum. She won't be receptive to it.

This will be the hardest thing you've ever done because she will not reciprocate in any way. If anything, your counter filing asking for the pajamas she sleeps in and the last bit of silverware and linen in addtion to the full custody of the kids will be a huge dose of reality she's not expecting.

Also, beat her to the punch and call your friends up and let them know that SHE had an affair and filed for a D, but that you'd like to rebuild the marriage and save things.

So if I'm not supposed to talk divorce with WW then how do we start dividing things and discussing all associated items? Is everything done through attorneys? That will be expensive...

This morning I printed a copy of the Basic Concepts and left it on the kitchen table with a note asking for 45 minutes of her time to talk to the Harley's. If she still isn't convinced, I offered To repay her in the settlement (good suggestion). She said she wasn't going to quibble over $200.

We'll see what happens...

When she brings it up, you say, "I will not discuss anything relating to divorce. I will only discuss how we can fix our marriage. Divorce will be handled through the attorneys."

She'll fume and rant. She wants things to be "friendly" and "nice" for the kids.

It's a fantasy. No such thing.

Your sentence above should be repeated ad nauseum.

If you discuss division of stuff, that means you've surrendered to her and she is getting her way.

Let her know you're fighting!

Not doing it through attorneys means you're making it easy for her.

DON'T.

Do you understand yet, that making the divorce process easy works AGAINST you?

DO NOT MAKE DIVORCE EASY!

I understand. Can I assume the same goes for selling the house? That should go through attorneys as well as part of divorce proceedings? My name is on the mortgage so she can't sell it or list it without my "approval."

Famous last words.

Quash this kind of thinking here. The... *cough* old-timers *cough*... are better qualified to say what is "typical" or not, bud.

They have seen some slimy waywards.

BX;

Have you noticed a trend in your thread?

The less you follow the advice given, the less people are going to post to you.


QUIT WAFFLING, MAN UP, AND DO AS INSTRUCTED.

This advice has been given time and time again, and has worked time and time again.

Quit fighting the advice, and start fighting the adultery.

I think a little dose of reality just hit WW. She said this is one of the worst days in her life.

Well, at LAST we have from you a positive statement about your situation. WW's total and abject discomfiture is what you want. You want to see to it that, unless she gets her lovely WW head out of her WW butt, as she evaluates the days to come, THIS day in retrospect was deeeeee-lightful.

The real trick is to structure you every action so that you remain the visible beacon of affection and EN-satisfaction, while privately doing everything to ruin her infidelity-influenced life. Hence, the lawyer, as in, "Gawsh, hunney-bunny, I don't know nothing about that divorce stuff, and am so busy trying to win you back, I don't have time to learn. Your lawyer will just have to speak to my lawyer." (Meanwhile, you're daily informing your lawyer to delay, disrupt, and destroy her plans of an easy dissolution.)

BX,

I find you receptive of advice so far, but be wary of thinking you know better.

You need to understand that you're not different, special, unique, or atypical.

Everything so far has been very standard. Nothing unusual here.

You see, we don't know you or your wife personally, but the pattern of behavior is soooooo common, that it is easy to spot. I've even been able to sniff out affairs in my own personal life since I've seen the signs so often here that I could tell when they hit for real in my personal interactions.

WW'es are delusional. They really think things will go their way and that there won't be any fight on your end. I've seen it here and now in my own family.

Don't fall for that idea. No, we don't know you personally but we know your wayward wife. Emphasis there is on "wayward". They all act and think the same.

The wild card in most of these situations is the BS. There are the BH's who are afraid of their WW'es. There's those that listen and follow instructions.

There's no guarantees that you'll save your marriage. But we know what works and what doesn't. Appeasement never works. Keeping the WW happy doesn't work.

Making the WW miserable works. If she's miserable, it means she's not getting her way or the affair has ended or you're doing things that are making it tough for her to leave with a clear conscience.

Helpthelostdads, I'm the first to admit I know nothing about this subject and therefore I do NOT know better. As a matter of fact I have posted on other's new threads telling guys to listen because people here are experts have their best interest at heart. All I do is offer moral support to my brothers injured by WWs.

Even the topic of a WW is so foreign to me my head is spinning. This thing went from 0 to 60 in about two seconds. There are so many thoughts in my head I am having trouble processing everything as fast as it comes from posters and WW.

Everyone's advice and support has been incredible. I look at this site more than any other. I value your opinions so that's why I ask so many questions even ones I know the answers to. I just want confirmation and support occasionally and this site gives me that.

I'm fighting for my marriage. Some of the concepts appear counterintuitive to me. I'm slow sometimes (live in KY) especially in subjects where I have no knowledge. But, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". I learn my lesson eventually.

OK. I owe everyone an apology. The affair is not over. The VAR confirmed. I have to expose to work tonight. I'm sorry I second guessed everyone!

I'm sorry, BX.

What did the VAR conversation say?

She has spoken to him, they are trying to figure out ways to get to live in the same city, she referenced him as her boyfriend, etc.

Do I need to let her know I have the audio tapes? Do I need to expose to her again?

I know I'm not supposed to leave the house because of my kids so does it matter if she filed divorce papers already?

I guess plan B is in order...

I don't want to go home for a while!

Dude, you don't have to apologize. In fact, I want you to stop apologizing for a spell.

10 days ago I told you to expose it at their workplace, told you to unload every round you've got onto this affair until you empty the chamber.

For any newly betrayed spouse who may be lurking & reading: Affairs are like vampires. When one is sucking the blood out of your marriage, you don't just take a teensy little stick & a 5-ounce hammer and go "tap-tap-tap" & check its pulse every few seconds & hope it's dead, do ya? No! You get the meanest, sharpest stake you can grab, and the biggest, heaviest mallet, and you pound on that sucker like all hell's broken loose, until the stake is sunk all the way into the vampire's chest and everything in the room is splattered with vampire blood.

Man, I was in an affair. And I was someone's OM. Unfortunately, I haven't just read this stuff in some book, I've lived it.

You've got to make it miserable for them. Shame has a role! It should be your goal to get him or her fired; that'd at least be a step toward no-contact.

But now they've had 10 days to scheme since I first told you this.

I'm sorry for ya, man. No, you didn't deserve to be in this spot, didn't ask for it. But here you are. You can still fight this fight, but your heart has to be in it. Only you can know if that's the case.

go home!! be quiet and let the vets get here. you have been doing good.do not leave your home!

Though it is horrifying and very upsetting you go home and do NOT tell her you have recordings. You don't tell her at this juncture you know about the continuing affair.

You take deep breaths and plan. Then you follow the plan to the T and work the marriagebuilder magic.

You will be in the best place possible that way.

Tell yourself that you must learn not to shoot yourself in the foot by revealing your intelligence info. It would not stop the affair, it would just go deeper underground so you can't have insight to the truth.

It is tough but you are able to do this.

I agree with the rest, don't do anything yet, you need a solid plan of attack and confronting at this point before the plan is in place will be counterproductive.
You will be in for the fight of your life.....
Right now educate yourself on all the steps and Plan A, Plan B, exposure and No Contact letters..........and then when the vets show up and start putting your plan together for you, you listen and act.........one step at a time with patience and faith.
for now hang in there, breathe and come here and read and learn
jessi
sorry this is happening in your life.

I'm not a vet, but I have a just read thru this entire thread, and have a few comments.

This caught my eye several pages back:


Whats the story on step dad? Divorced? Was there an affair, if so, was it with mom? He was the only family member as I recall who was against the affair. Find out what he lost if it was a divorce due to an affair, regardless of whether he was the BS or OM, either way, he lost a lot, have him talk one on one with your WW and have him lay it on thick.

EXPOSE and when you do, to EVERYONE that you already exposed to, the WORKPLACE AND every stinkin friend you guys have, heck their friends to. Blow this thing so wide open it will cause an earthquake in California (sorry for anyone who lives there).[/color]

Enlarged that to get your attention this time. Don't blow your last chance to save this if that is what you truly want to do, and if not...think of your kids growing up with one parent, and do it for them.

DO NOT sign anything on selling the house. Use that to stall.

Found this on your state laws:

"Kentucky has a confusing and important exception to the general concept of "no fault" in dissolution. If you are seeking maintenance, [color:#FF0000]your fault (i.e., adultery, drunkenness or other egregious misconduct) may well be used against you. Only the fault of the party seeking maintenance will be considered. The fault of the party against whom maintenance is sought, on the other hand, will generally not be considered."

Hope she doesn't expect spousal support. Imagine if she lost her job due to workplace exposure, she might then want 'spousal support' or have to stay in the house, with you, giving you another chance to save this thing.

Found this little tidbit too:

"The Court must conclude that the marriage is "irretrievably broken". Lawyers are ethically required to help people reconcile if possible. However, you should be realistic. Is there a reasonable likelihood you and your spouse can or will reconcile? Your lawyer really does care about that issue . The bottom line is this: The court considers most misconduct and blame for the break-up of the marriage to be irrelevant."

Sounds like this could be the stalling you need, you could say you believe the marriage can recover if given a chance using counseling with Steve Harley and Marriage Builders. You each owe that to your children. Worth a try.

Other than that, Kentucky divorce laws suck unless you are a POSWS and want a fast way out.

PS.......DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE!!! If anyone moves, she moves, without the kids.

Well, I went out last night and drank one too many beers. I got home and wasn't cool at all. I told her I know the affair was still going on and laid out some facts I got from the VAR. I did not tell I had a VAR but she proceeds to tell me I only knew about things that could be learned from recording her. (I think I blew it, damn Miller Lights.)

I also didn't expose yet because I couldn't type very well and I didn't want to send something so important without having a sound mind.

I told her that I love her and still want our marriage to be better than it was before but I was not going to be in a marriage that didn't include total transparency, love, affection and a positive place to raise our children. I told her that I am willing to talk about reconciliation but she will have to instigate it with me. I told her that right now this isn't possible due to other man in our relationship and that she should leave the house. She then proceeds to tell me she isn't leaving.

So can I do a Plan B with her in the house with me? Right now I don't think I want to be married to her anymore. I certainly don't want to Plan A right now. I don't want to talk to her or even acknowledge she is in the same room as me. Tell me this is normal?

Anyway, here is the letter I am going to email to the appropriate people in her company (HR, boss, etc.). If I send this it is the last nail in the coffin of my marriage.

Thoughts on the below?

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of X's Code of Conduct and/or Core Values (Quality, Integrity, Service and Innovation).

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace for at least a year while both parties have been married. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources , asset and funds. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their illicit relationship. They will both be together next week at President's Club and I personally think this is a bad idea. By letting them go, company name would be enabling this affair to continue.

This is especially concerning since X is in a management position within your company. His integrity and decision making ability should be questioned.

I hope you take steps in stopping this affair. I love my wife and children very much and I want to keep my marriage intact. However, it is increasingly difficult with another man involved. If you have any questions, or need specific proof, please call me at xxx-xxxx or via email at X. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

A few suggestions.

--I'd skip the bit about, quality, service, innovation. They already know what their own company's core values are. Stick with the pertinent information.

--to "sexual harrassment" add "and/or favoritism".

--Don't say you "hope" they "take steps in stopping this affair." Say that you "expect" that they recognize the obvious interest that their company has -- from legal, financial and corporate reputational standpoints -- in exercising appropriate measures to protect the company and safeguard employee morale amid this clear instance of employee misconduct.

--Make sure you identify not just one, but several members of the company management team, and ensure that as many of them as possible receive cc:s. Also be sure to cc: the company's general counsel. That way no one will be tempted to sweep it under the rug.

Ok, this is weird. The Lord works in mysterious ways. OM just sent my wife a NC letter and BCCd me. I drank last night but I didn't send OM anything. I'm still going to expose.

And you should

Also, stop the drinking. Not ony is it a bad idea health wise, it is messing with your ability to keep your mouth shut and your plans hidden.

I don't believe that you are ready for Plan B yet. It isn't used to just get out whenever your WW pisses you off, or you feel like you can't handle that moment. It is NOT to be done on emotions alone. You need to do it as part of your plan.

Are you going to be able to control yourself and get yourself into a plan that will actually work?

Plan B isn't a cake walk. While it is a break from the drama, it is harder than doing Plan A, and recovery is harder yet.

You CAN do this, you need to do this. What you need to do is get your plan sorted out, and execute it.

Scotland is a lady - refined, genteel, considerate of your feelings.

Me? Not so much!

Is there a reason you ask for advice, and specifically act contrary to its content?

EXPOSE, IN A NUCLEAR WAY - No, I'd rather not.
KEEP YOUR SOURCES SECRET - No, I'd rather give away any advantage I might have.

Frustrating, dude!

I hope you read my "vampire" metaphor, BXB. Didja?

Why do you think he bcc'd you? Do you think that, oh, just maybe there's the possibility that he (in connivance with her) is trying to throw you off the trail? After all, you've demonstrated (so far) that you're a guy who's willing to stop at half-measures if given a chance. Or so OM thinks.

Maybe, now that your wife has told him that you're onto them, he's crapping his pants, afraid for his career & trying to get you not to go ahead with workplace exposure. His hope (and hers) is to buy them more time to continue their affair, "spin" a story to their coworkers about how you're just crazy & they're just friends, and allow him to keep porking your wife.

No matter. If he's crapping his pants, that's just where you want him. Now that you have a PLAN, you must STICK with it. And your PLAN now is workplace exposure. This will continue to ratchet up the stress on their affair.

"The Lord works in mysterious ways." Yeah, but maybe not in the way you've been thinking. The Lord seems to have given you the tools & evidence to bust up your wife's affair. So use them! Proceed with full exposure. Send your letter. You can do this. If you want to have a chance of busting up the affair & possibly (not certainly, but possibly) salvaging your marriage, then you must do this.

BX ~
At this point, you have absolutely NO "THING" to lose by sending this letter.
It MUST be in written form on YOUR personal stationery!
Send it via USPS Certified mail to the director of HR...
(You can call the company & get the name of the person who is head of HR)
Do NOT simply send it via email & expect it to generate the level of "attention" you need!!!
I am NOT a Vet here @ MB.
Just a person who understands what betrayal feels like...
After reading your letter, I had a few thoughts about how it could be tweaked...
If there are MB Vets here who disagree, I am most interested in hearing what they have to say...
We can learn together...
(I used all-caps to accentuate my "tweaking"... Do NOT use all-caps in your letter!)
Here is my "unprofessional" opinion RE: Exposure letter to WW's workplace:


I will be praying for you...
Jeremiah 33:3

I know different companies have different policies but what can I reasonably expect from exposure to the workplace? They do not live in the same city but work for the same company and WW does not report to him. Can it range from reprimand to I assume firing? I just don't know what to expect.

Originally Posted by BXB9473

I know different companies have different policies but what can I reasonably expect from exposure to the workplace? They do not live in the same city but work for the same company and WW does not report to him. Can it range from reprimand to I assume firing? I just don't know what to expect.

BX ~
Instead of trying to predict the outcome of sending a letter to your WW & POSOM's workplace, you need to decide whether or not you are willing to "DO" what has worked for 1,000's of people using Marriage Builder principles...
I have seen people who have trusted the vets here and jumped in with both feet, TRUSTING that following these principles TO THE LETTER, offers a much better chance of restoring marriages than doing what you are doing...
Which is, SECOND-GUESSING, WAFFLING, BACK-PEDALING, etc...
Why do you think you have NOT heard back from the MB Veterans who have offered you their best advice & expertise?!?
You have demonstrated that you are not a person who is willing to "trust" what they have offered!!!
Believe me when I say they all have better things to do than coddle someone who is not willing to do what is needed to restore love in their marriage!
If I were you, I would reread your entire thread thoroughly...
After you read it, READ IT AGAIN!!!!!!!!!
Then, make up your mind whether or not you want to join the MB "Team". If so, great! If not, you need to seek counsel somewhere else...
If/when you decide to man-up and "DO" what is needed by sending a NC Letter to your WW & POSOM's company, come back...
That is when you will hear back from the Veterans who know a whole lot more than you and me!!!
They will be more than ready, willing & able to guide you...
If you decide otherwise, good luck...

Don't be fooled by the email from OM. He could just be trying to throw you off.

You may have scared him and he doesn't want his wife/gf to find out what he's doing.

So don't buy it.

EXPOSE.

There is no Plan B while living in the same house. The secret for you is to make it 100% clear for her that you aren't going to go anywhere, that you don't want a D, and that you will fight tooth and nail if she pursues one.

Most of all, stay calm and cool.

That was the #1 piece of advice I got when I was going through my mess and I DIDN'T FOLLOW IT!

So be James Bond.

DON'T TELL YOUR WW ABOUT THIS WEBSITE!

There is no reason to try to figure out what will happen when you expose. It can range from firing to nothing. Does that matter? Nope. All that matters is that this is the first step in a lot of hard things you are going to have to do if expect to have a chance at saving your marriage. In my case, exposure was pretty much ineffective but I feel AWESOME about having done it because they can't go around pretending that this is some true love story. Everyone knows that it was a dirty wrong AFFAIR. That's enough for me.

BTW everyone who has exposed hasn't regretted that decision. The ones that regret things about exposure are the ones that never did it or the ones who did it too late.

You didn't expose to work did you? You'll wish you did at some point.............

How goes it, BXB?

Did you ever expose to your wife's workplace?

Bump