Hello, I have been trying desperately for one year to get my wife to save our marriage and get her out of withdrawal. She says she lost the love. We have been 14 years together and have an 8 year old son. I am going to try to be brief telling our story and I hope someone can give me a good advice.

We started with a 2 years long distance relationship when I was 19 and she was 22. Now I am 34. We started living a great life and marriage until the Real Estate crash started to bring stress to our relationship. I was 25 years old, I had a beautiful wife and a beautiful baby, 5 Real Estate properties and I felt I was on top of the world. I felt the happiest guy on earth. And I trully believe I was. I came to USA first than my wife and I was raised by a divorced mom who taught me how to be very independent and resourceful. My wife in the other hand comes from married parents who did everything for her. When she moved here to live with me I knew how to get around, spoke english (she didn't), and basically new how to do everything I needed. I did everything for her and gave her all the support. I was in charge of everything. The house, the bills, financial support, etc. I was a hero to her. After the Real Estate crash I felt how she was dissapointed with me. I also remember how she was a little concerned on how I deal with money. She felt I was a little irresponsible, which is true.

After the crash, we both decided to do what we came to america for which was golf professional for me and dentistry for her (she was a dentist in south america). For foreign dentist is very difficult to revalidate their career in USA. She got accepted to school where she had to go for 3 years full time, and I had to give up golf to take care of our son and run a home based business to support our family. She basically gave me all responsibilities in the house which I gladly took. I took care of our son, the house, bills, the dog, everything...

While all this was happened I have to disclose that I was always faithful to her even tough I always felt a huge attraction towards the opposite sex and she knew about it because she was my confident and I never wanted to hide anything from her. After she graduated she started to hang out with her girlfriends and having a lot of fun with them. I was no longer fun for her, it seemed. I remember asking her many time to give me and the family more attention. To not forget about us, etc... Our conversations became more difficult every time.

When she graduated she got a few jobs and started to bring a good amount of money to the house. More than me with my home-based business. We then, both decided that it will be a good idea if we open a family practice (dental office). I used my business skills, my experiences, read every book about the business. Created a state-of-the-art business plan, negotiated a great location and a great opportunity and with my family money I was able to buy and finance the new office. I did all the business side of it. The idea is that I was going to run it, I still do, and she was gong to be the dentist. Everything seemed to be going relatively well during the first months of the business. But now she feels that she is the one providing to the family and that I am not good for anything. That I should get my own job and also provide for the family. It's like she forgot all I did and we were in this position because of me and my family money.

In the mean time I could not have my sexual need met and felt the need to cheat on her. I refused to do it and instead approached her and told her how I felt without giving her a solution. I told her: "this is what I feel and I don't know what do to..." I basically told her that I was very worried about my cheating one day with her and I felt I could not be sexually just with her for the rest of my life. Something I regret very much.

It is important to know that my father is very open minded and always said he loved girls and if it was for him he'd have more than one wife. He is on his 3rd marriage. Also, my older sister is married and they are swingers. So I never had a good role model to tell me how to manage my sexuality and desires and to protect my family overall... And never though of getting professional help.

Long story short I ended up convincing my wife to bring one of her friends to our bed and have sex with us. I did not force her, she confessed to me that she did not mind being with another girl and she felt she should to do it in order to fulfill my sexuality. We where at a school party one day and my wife approached me saying "she is ready..." I was shoked and asked who? for what? and she said my friend wants to go to bed with us and we just kissed in the bathroom.

Before the threesome I remember asking her to please take care of the house and me. To give me more time and affection. I was the one in charge of our son education, I was the one cooking, taking care of the bills, and everything that was not dentistry. And I always gave her freedom to do whatever she wanted and always accomodated her in whatever she asked me. Even if it did not make me happy. I was a total Giver.

After our sexual experience I made the bad decision of keep sleeping with the other girl. She was moving out of town in 7 days so I felt I was going to get away with it. I felt bad and was kind of upset because I could not get pleased with my wife instead. Well I got caught... she found a lot of phone calls and I confessed the truth. She was very dissapointed and I beg her to forgive me. After 6 months of her not giving in and me begging, and her saying she lost the love I was very frustrated and I left home.

After one week I came back and it did not work. I left again but this time I decided to go out with my friends who called me to get out to get distracted and not be depressed anymore. When I went out I hook up with a girl without knowing my wife was seeing every move I took (something I never understood since she was the one that wanted me out of her life). She used "find my iphone" and noticed I stayed in someone's house and not where I moved to... during this time I was still hoping we could fix things up. Whenever I would try to fix things up and ask her to forgive me and work things out, she never gave in, but when I was going out and found out I hooked up with someone else she would worry about loosing me and called me and act worried...

Keep in mind that while I was out of the house I still had to see her every day at work...

So after about 30 days out of my house I felt things were not going to get better and I decided to come back to give it 110%. I convinced her to go to therapy but we only went one time. I went 4 times by my self and did everything I was told and asked by the therapist and my wife. My wife went 3 times by her self and the therapist told her that she was responsible too for not committing to her family and taking care of her husband. The therapist also told her she was a histeric woman (one that desires what she does not have and is not happy with what she has... something like that) and other things too... She told the therapist she wants me to make my own money. I feel that her most important emotional needs are financial support, conversation, and recreational. But I cannot proove her financial support in our business which she feels is hers and I'm just an employee.

My wife tried very little to fix things up and I never felt she gave her all. She keeps telling me she does not want to do anything for our son, our family, or our 14 years together. That it has to come from within. But I feel she has to act, commit and focus, in order to recover her love.

It's been more than one year since the 3-some. It's been more than 4 months since I came home and I'm giving my all to save the family. But I can't get her out of withdrawal state. She acts very strong. She says she wants to be alone, and that there is nothing to do. I feel that I need to leave for good for her to realize what she is loosing. I hear from a lot of people, even her friends that I spoil her and she does not appreciate me. I am very dipressed, to the point that it is very harmful to me. I'm desparate to save my family. I have a huge pain in my chest that it's been there for almost a year. I get panic atacks when I see my family breaking down.

Also, I want to mention that for 10 years I was addicted to marihuana, something I finnaly gave up since I moved back in the house more than 4 months ago.

I don't know what to do. Can someone give me a good advice? is there hope? can I regain her love? I feel my love is also fading away and I don't want to son to have divorced parents and go through all the hassle that divorce parents bring to the children, and everything I went through...

Please help ...

I encourage you to read the book Surviving an Affair by Dr. Willard Harley

Ok. Thanks.
What else?

The first thing you should do is expose your affairs to family and friends.
have you done this?

Please read this.
Start Here First-Welcome SAA

Wow! No. I feel it will make it worst. A lot of people know it but not the way it really happened. How do you think it will make it better?
Thanks for the help!

Have you been tested for STD/I?

Will your BW post here?

You betrayed your wife sexually at least three times.

The first time was when you put pressure on her to provide a friend for your threesome. To ask your wife to engage in a threesome was profoundly disrespectful of her and showed that you did not care for her at all. You blackmailed her into doing something that was abhorrent to her, on the grounds that she was not meeting your sexual needs and she owed you this favour. That act did untold damage to your marriage.

The second betrayal was in having sex with that girl again, behind your wife's back, thus showing again that sex with someone else was more important than your marriage, and the third betrayal was the sex with someone else, reinforcing the lack of care and love you felt for your wife.

You have completely trashed your marriage, not once in an impulsive act but repeatedly, with calculation. No wonder your wife is withdrawn and wants nothing to do with you.

In addition, she has told you what she wants from you financially and you have ignored that also. She wants a conventional wage-earning husband, not somebody who manages the books while she makes the money. You dismiss that requirement on the grounds that you helped her set up her business and you also brought family money with you.

Since she has told you what she needs from you financially, why aren't you trying to give that to her? If you were a golf pro, couldn't you go back to golf, or perhaps to coaching, to earn a conventional salary?

I don't see that you've done anything for her since your repeated affairs and I understand completely why she is withdrawn from you. What reason does she have to think that you can make her life better after all this pain? What reason does she have to think that you will put her needs first, since you so singularly failed to do so by satisfying your sexual desires with other women, repeatedly?

First of all, thank you very much for taking the time to read my post and answering back. I am very ashamed of what I did and the decisions that I made that disrespected my wife and my family. Regardless of whatever reasons I had like feeling abandoned or not having my emotional needs met. I wish I had more resources to deal with the initial problems we had as well as a good mentor by my side or professional help. I hate to excuse myself but remember I was raised by a father who is on his third marriage and believes a men should be with many women at the same time and have advices from my loved sister who is currently a swinger... I made a huge mistake. I was immature. It's been a year where I've been carrying a huge guilt because I never wanted my family to break apart but it did. I repent, I have learned, and I have matured. I love my family very much and that is why I am here looking for more resources. My wife admitted with a therapist that she didn't pay enough attention or properly took care of the family and she wishes the love was there to continue our relationship. But she does not feel like it.
I have been desperately looking for a solution and I have felt very guilty and cry like never before in my life going through this.
I have not read very much about how to survive an affair because I felt the problem was a mix of things. Although based on what I hear and your comment I now feel that that was the major problem. So I will read about it and see what I can find there.
In regards to the business it's more complicated than that. I don't just do the books I run it. I set it up, I do the marketing, and all the managerial needs of it. I believe that I am an essential part of the business. I feel that if I was not in the business my wife would ask me to help her. I started the business for the family and not as a gift for her. I started it with the idea that was going to be a family business and that we were going to work and grow as a team.
Thanks again and I'd still love to hear your opinion after my comments.
Regards.

Have you read this?

Also, you mentioned that you don't see that I haven't done anything for her since I committed my affairs. What do you think I should do? I feel I have done everything I can. I didn't try to deny anything. I told her everything. I have not have any contact with anyone. I have not gone out....
What else can I do?

I'm on it!!!
Thanks.

you can do this!

I haven't stopped reading about surviving an affair and I have come to realize that an "emotional (maybe sexual) affair" my wife was had or maybe still have, I took very lightly.
While I was going about trying to meet my sexual needs through an open relationship. She developed a relationship with one of her professors that ovbiously met her needs better than I did. When I told her everything about my infidelities she tried to tell me that she also felt guilty becuase she developed feelings with that man. I took it as her trying to give me some pain back and was too scared to know the truth (I've always been one of those persons that think is better not to know everything).
But now it concerns me. I feel that her bitterness and withdrawl comes from her not being able to be with the other man. Not only that but that man works at our clinc coming once a week to place Implants and everytime I touch the subject of me not wanting him to come anymore she explotes with anger...
What should I do? How can I ask her to make him leave? And should I go back to the subject and ask her to tell me everything about their relationship?
Please advice

I think that if this marriage is to be rescued, you need a new life.

Your wife is not happy with you working for her business (although I suspect you will dismiss this point as you did the last time I brought it up) and she is having an affair with someone who works for her. She needs to get away from him.

I don't know how far away her friend moved (the threesome friend); is there any chance of unplanned contact with her?

I think you need to get away from your current area and move your business somewhere new. It's actually a good idea for husbands and wives to work together in a family business; Dr Harley often recommends it when there has been an affair, and he and his wife work together although they have never had an affair. It is one of the ways that you can create an integrated life. However, your wife does not see the current set-up as an equal partnership. You need to find a way to address her concerns, and perhaps a new business agreement would be a solution.

I think you would benefit greatly from using the telephone coaching service. I recommend that you book a phone consultation with one of the coaches (Dr Harley's son and daughter) and see what they suggest to get your wife motivated in ending her affair and working on the marriage.

You've had affairs with two women, you've both had a threesome and she is involved with someone now. The marriage is an almighty mess. You need a monumental effort to turn this around and I don't see your wife being interested - not with someone else in place - but it can be done. Book a phone consultation.

Thanks!

So which part of SugarCane's great advice will you be following?

What EPs will you and your W be putting into place?

I sat down and spoke to her last night in a very friendly way. I told her that I have learned a lot from marriage builders and this experience. I reminded her that I deeply cared about her ans her feelings. I told her again how much I regreted all the inmature and irresponible things I did. I brought up the subject of her emotional affair. I explained to her an affair does not necessarily have to be sexual to be one. All is needed is the feeling of love which she confessed to me that she was very "confused" with this man.
After her last solo therapy she decided she was going to loose contact with him. (They used to train together for triathlons almost every week). But decided not to loose the professional relationship she had cause she felt it was very beneficial for her profession and the business (something I disagree). They are hundreds of doctors that can do the same thing. She said last night that all she had was a fantasy. I did not want to take that subject further because our conversation was going to turn unpleasant. I really want to tell her to not see him again ever and for him not to ever come back to our clinic. Maybe I should call him and ask him that favor myself but I'm not sure that's a good idea.
I completely lost contact with all the women I had an affair and have been very much committed to my family for more than 6 months.
I am not sure if my wife still has feelings for him. It just occurred to me after reading about surviving an affair and seeing her bitter attitude. It might just come from her anger from my affairs. I don't know.
Taking our business to a new place will be impossible. Although I like the idea of making a new agreement and arrangement. At this time I cannot afford a telephone coaching because of a current financial situation I am going through. But I would very much love to.
I convinced her to please fill up the emotional needs and love busters questionnaires for me to better understand her needs and avoid love busters and she agreed. This morning she said it was the first time after a while that she enjoyed our conversation and did not feel anxiety.
I think I made progress. It's been tough cause I am very much in conflict and I'm scared of feeling withdrawal and loosing the battle...
Thanks for the advice. This website and your comments have helped me a lot.
I very much appreciate it.

I didn't think the coaching would be a problem because you mentioned "therapy", which you must be paying for, in your first post:

Are you absolutely sure that your successful dentist's business cannot afford a few hundred dollars for phone coaching?

I haven't got to the bottom of your wife's dissatisfaction with your working for her business, but it seems that whatever you are doing is not bringing in enough income, if you cannot afford this money right now. Have you no savings against a rainy day? What a dangerous way to live. Does that have anything to do with your 10-year addiction to dope?

I would just caution you that divorce will be much more expensive than the cost of phone coaching, and the coaching here is very successful if both spouses cooperate. You wife seems on the verge of cooperation, given your last post.

You should move heaven and earth to find the money for coaching. You are poised in a delicate position now and you need to seize on the chance for success that your wife has just offered you.

I went to past therapy twice solo, once together and my wife went twice alone. That was more than 30 days ago and she said she did not want to spend more money on therapy because is not working for her. I asked her to go to another therapist and she said no.
We do have a successful business but we are starting our second year and have a lot of debt. It's a new business...
Yes we do have money for rainy days but she in control of it. I have to convince her to agree on that investment. I will find the money somewhere else though cause I am sure it will be very worth it.

I am back.

After months of trying to fix things up and feeling devastated about all the things I did, I just found out today, by looking at my wife's phone calls that she's been having an affair with the doctor for more than one year. I have not confronted her yet because she is working actually with her lover in our dental office. I am home with my kid. I just found more than 270 calls since last year and more than 2000 minutes of conversation. I noticed when I started reading about how to survive an affair that she was the one having the symptoms of the wayward spuse...
What to do? I panicked after I found out and decided to call and met with my old therapist. She recommended that I confront her and leave the house, but I have been reading that if I leave it will give her a better opportunity to continue her affair. I feel that me staying here will make me show weak and more unattractive to her. Also, I have an 8 year old boy that I don't know if I should tell him. For now I am just going to confront her and show her the print out of the calls. She denied a few days ago having any communications with his at all and on the calls show she's been talking to him every day...
What do you guys recommend?
I cannot believe she kept hiding this from me since I told her everything about my affairs and gave her the opportunity to tell me her side of her secrects.
Please advice.
Thanks.

during all this past months I have been asking her to make a decision to either work on our marriage or ended but to please stop being so harsh. She's been drifting farther and farther but does not want to make a decision. I think is becuase part of it she is confused and also because she does not want to say she was the one who ended the relationship and have all the blame in me.
I am devastated becuase my affairs were only sexual and I never wanted to end my relationship. She is in love with him...
Please help. I will leave tonight after confronting her and I will only tell my son that mom and dad cannot understand each other and cannot work things out.

Don't confront her to let her know that you found out.

Follow the SAA procedure and first do a full blown exposure to ALL pertinent family and friends and if this is her workplace, then to the key management there as well.

She already knows what she is doing. What good will you telling her do?

Strike immediately with exposure before they can spin some ludicrous story about you and the abusive marriage and then they will take precautions to further cover their tracks.

Do you have a keylogger on her home computer and spyware on her cell phone yet and placement of VAR's in her vehicle and in the home where she might go to speak in private?

Do those things immediately if you have not done so yet.

Her cell phone call logs will tell you the times she is making contact with him and you can use that info to know where she typically is at those times and have a VAR hidden in those locations.

EXPOSURE, Not Confrontation!!!

LTL

lovemyfamily, do not confront her tonight and do not leave the house. Take a deep breathe and then plan for a full-blown exposure.

Do NOT let your wife know in any way, shape, or form what you have found out until you have done a full exposure.

Stop with the panic now, that is not going to help. We all understand. However, to help your M the best, you are going to need to be calm as a cucumber for a bit. You are going to need to think with your logic rather than your emotion.

I have not read your whole thread, but wanted to get this out there for you.

Deep breathes.

I am sorry to hear this devastating news.

You said that you realised your wife must be having an affair when you read Surviving An Affair. You need to re-read the chapters about how affairs normally end, how they should end and what to do when the unfaithful spouse will not stop contacting the affair partner. (I don't have my copy of the book in front of me to check the chapter headings.) That book contains your blueprint for what to do.

You seem to be set on leaving her, but you could have done that without posting here. The fact that you have posted here suggests to me that you want to think about trying to save the marriage. I'm sure that reading Dr Harley's book has made you see that saving and rebuilding it is possible. I think you should take some time to continue posting here today and think about saving the marriage. It might not be possible to save it, but as yet you do not know the full depth of the affair.

When did you find out? When did you have time to meet with your therapist? Why did the therapist recommend that you leave the house? Is she making this recommendation on the basis of your mental health?

You've rejected the idea of coaching with the Harleys before, but somehow you found the money to pay for therapist and she recommended that you walk away - which, as I said, I suspect you do not want to do. You should reconsider consulting with her if she has no advice on how to save your marriage.

A well as re-reading the chapter of the book, I think you need to gather firmer evidence of an affair. A huge amount of time spent on the phone is not the best evidence; it does not show how far the affair has progressed. If your wife is speaking to him that much, you should be able to record her speaking to him from your home. Install a digital voice recorder in the room from which she is most likely to talk to him. You should be able to get something in a day. You should also try and read her text messages and install spyware on her phone. Do you know the password to the phone?

You will need to fire the doctor from your practice and expose the affair to his wife and your son, and to your colleagues and families on both sides. It goes without saying that he cannot work with you and your wife any more.

A few months ago when you first came here I suggested selling the practice and moving away to get a fresh start. That is something you will need to do if you are to recover this marriage.

Yes, your 8 year old is old enough to tell. But DO NOT tell him this second�tell him at the same time that you pull the trigger on full blown exposure.

When you do tell him, you can make it age appropriate. For instance, married people are not supposed to date other people, and Mom is dating someone else. That is called an affair. Do not just tell him that you and your wife "cannot work things out". That is not being forthright with your son. He deserves to know the truth about his own life.

Meanwhile, tonight you will need to stay calm and as natural as possible around your wife. Plan A her like you have been. Please DO NOT cave into your natural instinct to confront her!

Try to gather exposure names and contact info and expose ASAP (including your son!) without any sort of previous warning to your wife.

1. don't confront her

2. don't lie to your child

3. don't move out

Calm down and come back here so we can help you with a strategic plan. Moving out would be silly and foolish.

Thanks for the postings and help. I really appreciate it. I found out today this morning. The phone calls information say where the phone calls were made. A lot of them are made from the city where he lives and she has no business going to. I do want to save my marriage. The decision of the therapist to leave the house is because here she sees me weak and needy. She is not able to appreciate me while I'm here. I would love to stay but I cannot accomplish anything here in the house.
I am rethinking though I have my things in the car. She hasn't arrived home and I sent her a message of OMG!!! we'll talk when you get home. I wish I could show the proofs of the calls how a lot of them are originated from the city where he lives and a lot of them are for 1 min or 2 which to me it means its a quick call to let him know she is on her way to his house....
I don't know her phone password and she hides it from me.

ok. I will tell her an excuse about my OMG!!! message and will stay here in the house....
I did go to my therapist instead of calling Dr Harvey because I panicked and she was there. Also, I don't have a lot of money and she costs $100 for 1.5 hrs...

I am runnig out of time, my wife will get here in about 45 mins and I have my stuffs in my car...

ok I will bring my things back.
What can I tell my son now. I already told him that I was leaving tonight?
I don't want him now to tell my wife that I told him that.....
OMG I'm devastated! I wanted to work things out so bad.

Sue, in the book, when she is deep in her affair, is your wife today. Sue's feelings for her husband Jon changed because she was unhappy in their marriage. It might not seem from the reader's point of view that she had much to be unhappy about, but from her point of view she did, and she was.

Far more than Sue, your wife has a great deal to be unhappy about; because of the threesome, which was a cruel thing to put her through, and your subsequent affairs.

I see that you are still making light of the harm you did to her with those actions, because you dismiss your affairs as "just sexual" while, apparently, hers are morally worse than yours because she is in love with him.

You need to realise that from her point of view, your affairs are morally unforgivable because, starting with pressuring her to engage in a threesome, they show that YOU were not in love with HER. You abandoned the honouring, protecting and cherishing that you were supposed to do for your wife and you abused her. What matters is to her not that she loves this doctor, but that YOU did not love HER.

If you are to have any attempt at saving your marriage, you need to never compare your "only sexual" affairs to hers, especially not to find hers as more wrong.

After a year's deep involvement with this man, she is unlikely to end the affair immediately. It might end immediately when you confront him and expose to his wife; he might well drop her (because he is a coward and a user as are all OM) and run far away from the dental practice and your neighbourhood. If he is a doctor this could ruin his reputation and livelihood, so upon exposure he would probably want to get far away from the scene of the crime. However, if he doesn't, it is unlikely that your wife will end the affair straight away. She will be like Sue and suffer terrible withdrawal, and probably contact him when she can and the affair will be back on, like Sue's.

If that happens, then the approach you need to take (if you want to try and save the marriage) is Dr Harley's Plan A. This involves attempting to win your wife away from OM. In order to do that, you need to do things that build love bank deposits with your wife and do nothing that causes love bank withdrawals. You may need to do this for several months. If you do not succeed in winning her away from OM and you have to leave, a good Plan A will make you an attractive person for her to return to when the affair inevitably dies out.

In order for Plan A to have any chance of succeeding, Dr Harley stresses that it must be done perfectly. If your wife is indeed in love with OM and even if she isn't - after having inflicted your affairs on her you will only confirm her view of you as an uncaring, cruel husband if you fight or argue with her about the affair, or blame her for causing you pain, or threaten her with terrible outcomes if the affair continues. You got into the position where she lost her love for you by being thoughtless and cruel, and if you show any more evidence of that kind of behaviour she will never find a reason to stay with you, or go back to you.

You need a major change of attitude about your affairs if you are to stand a chance of reconciling the marriage.

You need to calm down and stop firing off in all directions at once. You can already see that this does more harm than good.

Bring your things in from the car and tell your son you are not leaving. Tell him that you were upset but you are not upset any more and you are staying at home.

Your wife must know what you intended to talk to her about (although she probably does not know how you know). Can you put a voice recorder or your phone set to record in the place where she is likely to call OM in secret? She will probably call and warn him tonight. It would be good to record that call.

It is clear to me that you were gearing up to a fight with her when she came home. You were going to throw the evidence at her and storm off.

If you want to fight the affair and restore the marriage, it is vital that you do not fight with your wife - not ever, from today on. When she comes home you need to say that you were upset that your marriage is still unhappy today, but you have calmed down. That will also be the excuse if your son tells her that you packed your things.

Do whatever you normally do when you've had a day at home with your son; cook dinner and clear up. Be pleasant, and then get on with spying.

The therapist doesn't have the slightest idea what she is talking about. Leaving your home will only facilitate the affair. If you run like a crybaby she will really see you as weak and needy.

Do you want to take the advice of Dr Bill Harley, a clinical psychologist who specializes in infidelity or some inexperienced "therapist?"

You are right about the affair being either sexual or emotional. I will not use that to compare. I did not convinced her into the threesome. I told her that might be a good idea to take our relationship to the next level (of course I didn't know the next level I was going to get was this...) and one day at a party, after her being tipsy, she approached me and said "she is ready"... I was like "what do you mean?" she said "she is ready to have a threesome I just made out with her in the bathroom"... I did maybe brainwashed her into that is a good idea. I also remember that day at the party she said "maybe you can go with her and I can go with the Doctor...". My therapist said she used that threesome as a way for her to get out of the relationship without guilt...

I don't know how can I get more proofs. How can these proofs not be enough.

1. she is denying any type of communication
2. phone calls every day with place of origin the city where he lives.
3. calls for just one or two minute, calls late at night, one at 4am

I had an affair and was caught the same way and my calls were like hers...

please advice and thanks again for the help.

I just put my things back and told my kid I am not leaving that I will keep working on keeping the family together.
I will tell her that I said OMG because of something that concern me financially....

You've just disregarded everything I told you about not trying to compare or excuse what you did to her.

Ok. I will call Dr. harley's line tomorrow.
I will tell her exactly that. That I suddently felt unhappy about our marriage not working out but that I calmed down....
This is rough stuff... I do feel responsible though. I don't have hate towards her. If I would have been a better husband this wouldn't be happening. I am calmed and accepting my responsiblity. Focused on saving the family.

The threesome is now her fault!

You are right....
I just noticed. There is no excuse. I will not mention anything or compare it in anyway.
OMG this is so hard!!!

No is not her fault I am just saying that I didn't put a gun in her head.
Never mind, I was just trying to give details. I take full responsibility.

For right now, you don't need Dr Harley's help. You need our help in killing the affair.

Then tomorrow you should make a plan to expose the affair. Does the OM have a facebook page? If so, go to his page tonight and copy and paste all of his contacts into a text doc for safekeeping.

sorry, sugarcane. I don't know if you are saying that the threesome was her fault as a sarcasm or being for real...
Do you think it was her fault? I don't. I think it was mine but she didn't make it very hard for me...

do you guys feel I have enough information to expose the affair?

If you call the coaching centre you will get help from one of Dr Harley's children; either his daughter, Dr Jennifer Chalmers (with whom he co-wrote Surviving an Affair) or his son, Steve Harley. I have never coached with them but people here who have done so speak very highly of them.

However, my preferred option for you is to get advice from Dr Harley himself, and you can get this free by sending an email to him at the radio show.

I posted about the radio show to you on your thread in the Recovery forum, and you chewed me out for it. I have copied my post from that thread here. I urge you to re-read that thread because it had information that you need today.

Here is my post from a few months ago:

Obviously, you need to give details of your wife's affair.

I think you are an idiot to even try and explain it!

Why are you talking about it? How is this helping you to prepare for when she comes home tonight?

Thanks surgarcane. And I did and I do apologize for chewing you out...
I will send an email with all the details to Dr. Harley as you mention.
Thanks for being there despite everything.

I will do this that you mention. I think she will still be suspicious. I will have to put up my best act.

I'm going to leave you in MelodyLane's (and other people's) hands about exposure. Mel and others here are experts at that. They know all about Facebook and social media and I know very little. Take Mel's advice on whether you have enough evidence to confront and do exactly as she says.

What evidence do you have now?

Mel, here is most of what he said about evidence:

and

It sounds like he can see the phone records but has not heard the calls or read any text messages.

The calls originating from OM's city sound pretty convincing to me, but I wonder if he needs more than that to expose to other people, including OM's wife.

I was hoping there was more than that because phone calls do not an affair make. lovemyfamily, how can you get more evidence? Have you checked her emails? Texts? Can you get recordings of her phone calls?

The only other thing that occurs to me is following her...
Btw my wife's lover got divorced about a year ago...

When and where do you think she meets up with him?

Did you read my suggestion to record her with your phone? You could do this tonight.

with that many phone calls, you should be able to easily see a pattern for when they talk the most minutes. Look at those bills and connect the dots for the time frame. Where is she during that time?

lovemyfamily, you absolutely need to calm down, you have a long important road ahead, and you need your strength, okay?

Go out tomorrow and buy a couple of voice activated recorders, and HIDE them in the places where she is when she makes the longest phone calls. It should only take one or two days to get enough proof to expose.

TONIGHT you just play cool cucumber and then tomorrow when she is out of the house, you get to work on getting the VAR(s). Or, like Melody says, if you can snoop for texts or emails, go for it.

I believe they meet at his home.
I have a recording device in the office I will bring home to see if I can catch something.

OH! SugarCane has a great suggestion! Hide your phone and try for that!

Then tomorrow, you can go and buy some VARs if nothing pans out tonight from your phone.

Ok lets get to work. I have a family to save.

Can you put a GPS on her car and then follow her there?

It looks like she never calls him when I'm home. We only open 4 days a week and I go to the office when we dont open. That's when they talk and meet. He also just bought a dental office and i need to find out when he opens.
I will look at the phone bill and connect the dots.

What kind of gps?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/21607563?...6607510&wl4=&wl5=pla&veh=sem

http://www.brickhousesecurity.com/p...device.do?sortby=bestSellers&from=fn

http://www.landairsea.com/gps-tracker/gps-tracking-key

OR you could track her if she has an iPhone and you have the findmyiphone app on her phone.

go to the operation investigating thread and see what strikes you there. On page 5, wifedivorcing mentions a GPS model that sounds amazing.

If you can get your hands on her cell phone TONIGHT, you can also try loading GPS software onto that. Read that thread, there are lots of options.

Just remember to stay calm tonight, and do not tip your hand. Like SugarCane pointed out, you are going to need to win your wife back. FIRST though, you have to kill the A.

As for going to the office tomorrow to pick up a recording device�is the office closed tomorrow? Will the OM be there? If so, I recommend you not going to the office. VAR's are so inexpensive, you can get a good one at Staples for $40-50. You could buy two and put them in different locations.

Bingo! I just ask my kid if he knows my wife's iphone passcode and he gave it to me. I'm going to spy on it and see if I find anything...
I will look at her past frequent locations...
Thanks all

Look at her emails and texts. Forward anything suspicious to yourself. Check her locations here: There is a useful feature in iOS that let's you track all the places an iPhone is taken within the prior month. Go to Settings:Privacy:Location Services:System Services:Frequent Locations. You will see entries at the bottom of the list. This will show you all locations visited, and the dates and times of each visit.

Install the app "findmyiphone" and then track her at this website: https://www.icloud.com/#find

here is some spyware for her phone: http://www.flexispy.com/en/catch-cheating-spouse-cell-phone.htm

I think I'm going to get her with the history of frequent locations when she takes a shower tonight. She hasnt got home and its almost 10 pm. She said was going to stop to eat something...
Eat what? ....

Ok, do you know how to take a picture on the phone of the screen and send it to yourself?

I would first check her locations, take a photo and text it to yourself. Then go to her text messages, find her texts with the OM, take a picture and email it to yourself.

we all know that this is tough, but calm (and cool) as a cucumber, remember?

Plan A.

You're going to kill the affair, then you will work on making an interdependent lifestyle�and eventually you two will plan things out and eat together.

For right now, you need the goods so that you can EXPOSE.

You can use this time to copy the OMs contact info friends/family off of Facebook, and you can gather his parent's and any siblings info for exposure.

http://www.imore.com/how-to-take-a-screenshot-with-the-iphone

In fact, why not TAKE her cell phone, drive to a coffee shop and take your time with it? That way, you could gather all the evidence, send it to yourself and download and install some spyware on it.

Bring it back after you have collected all your evidence. Hand her the phone and tell her "I know all about your affair."

BEFORE you do that, you should disable your wifi so she can't get on the computer and wipe clean her phone via findmyiphone.com.

I thought that the previous advice was to NOT confront her until, A) He has the verified proof that he needs to convince others that there truly is an active affair taking place and B) to wait to confront her until he actually sends out all of the exposure letters, e-mails and/or phone calls to all pertinent contacts of hers and the POSOM.

LTL

That advice has changed. Read my post.

How does he email the screen shots to himself while wifi is disabled?
Find my phone doesn't work over cellular data network?
Do you mean disable Internet service at home before leaving for coffee shop?

It sounds like good advice but not quite clear how to follow.

I got it. I got her phone and took pictures with my phone of the chats in whatsapp. There was a looooooot... I love you's planing meetings, coments about how good their sex is, etc... I got all the proofs...
I want to full expose before telling her I know everything aboit the affair. He used to be her teacher and he still works for that school. Eventhough their affair started after she graduated it. I want to go to that school and hand in a letter to the dean and his department boss. I also want to expose to his co-workers and partners at work (eventhough i noticed that she visited his dental practice several times and they all lover her) but i dontknow if they know they have an affair.
They are deep in love. Very deep.
My wife saw me crawling putting the phone back in her nightstand and confronted me with what was I doing. I said nothing and said i didnt know her phone password.
I want to expose to her family, my family, his facebood friends, her closed facebook friends, and our employees innour office.
What are the recommended steps.
I am devastated abut cool as a cocumber and with very little hope she will want to work thingsnout afrer this but at least I know it will be impossible for them to continue their affair unless they decided to move to a different planet.
After she saw me i camly said dont worry everything will be fine, i told her that I love her and always have, i even caress a little with much compassion. I know that this is part my fault. I have been plan a her for more than two month. She had this huge emotional walls and now i see why.
The last thing they wrote to each other was her telling him she thinks i lnow everythinh then he asked her if it was ok to still go to do the dental implants and she said yes because i wasnt there...
Please

The affair is over a year old and they are deeply in love.
Is not fair he has gained her love through admiration as a teacher. He should get fired from school. I also want to ruin his repitation online of his dental office with reviews for his new office. Is that a good idea?

I could not get to the begining of the chat. There was too much. I am going to grab her phone a run to a cofee shop. I need to know when it began because i habe a feeling it started before my affairs and he pushed me so I took all the blame of the end of the relationship... And i also want to know if they started while she was in shool cause that will be ahuge problem for him and his profession...

You did fantastically well to get all this. Well done. I know how horrible it was for you to read these messages.

I don't understand this sentence. Please explain:

"I also want to expose to his co-workers and partners at work (eventhough i noticed that she visited his dental practice several times and they all lover her) but i dontknow if they know they have an affair.
They are deep in love. Very deep."

What does "I don't know if they have an affair" mean? Do you mean whether they have a policy against student/teacher affairs?

You need to get the phone again and install spyware on it. That way, even if she changes her password you will have records of what she is posting to him. She will tell you that the affair is over but they will continue to contact each other - I can guarantee that. Once you install spyware that will be the last time you need to touch her phone. DO NOT GET CAUGHT again touching her phone while you do this.

You need to go now to his Facebook page and copy his list of friends into a WORD file, so that you can send close, relevant friends a message about the affair. Copy this now before he blocks you from Facebook. You need to do the same for your wife before she blocks you too.

There are websites on which you can expose OM for his professional misconduct. Others will be along to help you with those but for now, please secure those Facebook lists for each of them, and try and install spyware on her phone.

You will only expose once you get the go ahead here. Do not fire off any messages until we are sure everything is lined up.

It would be better if you could get the information without taking her phone. Once you take her phone you are forced to tell her you know about the affair. I would much rather you told her at a time of your choosing.

I don't think it is essential that you find out when the affair started right now. If you are trying to save your marriage, that detail does not affect how you go about doing so. There will be time and opportunity to discover the truth about that. She might simply tell you, or you might discover it through spyware. I would rather you did not give up your source by stealing her phone now, just to get a detail that is not essential.

lovemyfamily, great job!! Please do as Sugarcane said and go to the OM's facebook page and copy and paste all of his contacts into a text doc for safe keeping.

Go to my exposure thread and read the instructions and start making up your exposure target list.

You did great!!

Help! I'm on the street. I took her phone and ran... I'm with my kid. She knows i have the phone and that i am tellong Diego...
Should I stay with Diego and go back home with him? Take him to school? What do I tell her when I get back?

Why did you take the phone again?

For goodness sake calm down, and next time, post here first before you take any action.

Take your son to school.

Install spyware on her phone. `You absolutely MUST do this before you give it back. This will be your last chance ever to keep tabs on the phone because she will change her password now. With spyware that won't matter.

Since you have the phone, you might as well find the information you were looking for, too.

What were you planning to do once you dropped your son at school? Were you planning to go to work, or back home?

Here is a good spyware program: http://www.flexispy.com/

Also, have you checked your own phone to make sure you got CLEAR, READABLE photos of her chats? A much better process is to take photos with HER phone and send them to yourself.

I'm taking my son yo school and go back home

I have enough proofs

More than I wanted

It bears repeating:

For goodness sake calm down, and next time, post here first before you take any action.

Calm

Cool

Logical (not emotional)

YOU have to logically work your plan. We are helping with the plan.

POST HERE before taking any more action.

Enough to expose?

lovemyfamily, we KNOW how devastating this is, but you don't know at this point what will happen. Think of Sue in SAA. Just stick with the PLAN and give it time to work.

Drop your son off at school and then go someplace and get that spyware onto the phone. Did you do that?

Did you check your photos of the proof so that you are sure that they are viewable?

Do you have all of the names and contact info to expose to? (please answer this)

Don't start exposure until we give you the go-ahead. Do not go home until you have posted here again to us, so that we can help you with a PLAN.

I have photos and enough proofs.
It didn't occur that I will still need spyware after the proofs. I just realized it would have been important to monitor what will happen after i told her i knew.
I'm on my way to the office to gather all her facebook contacts.
It went terrible. I decided that i had enough proofs but not enough to know if that affair started after or before mine. So I stupidly decided to grab her phone and run out of the house to take my kid to school. I took her car keys but I forgot to take the spare ones and she went off to follow me.
When I had the phone I told my son Mom is having an affair. I showed my son amd picture of the lover to see if he knew him and he said yes. (I regret all this part) then my wife drove next to me trying to pull me over. She took a turn to school and I drove off a different way and lost her.
I parked somewhere and calmed my son down. Told him everything was going to be ok. Then I decided to take him to school and so I could get counceling because I regreted putting my son in that situation. The councelor helped me calm things down we brought my son in and we calmed him down.
I then went home and comfronted mu furious wife who was upset about my action with Diego. I told her he was ok and that we spoke with a councelor.
After that there was a lot of silence after that I just said very few things calmly about the affair. Then the lover called me with bs about is not anyone's fault. I told him he has a lot of nerves. Then my wife does not want to talk about it anymore...
I'm still very hesitant about an exposure... Still going to prepare for that but i wont pull the trigger.
Please help!

I think I did a very bad job and now she hates me.

We cannot help if you continue to go off like this and do whatever strikes your mood or emotions at the moment.

It does not matter whether her affair started after or before yours. Why are you focusing on that?

You are wasting valuable time and allowing your wife and her lover to re-group�.time that should be spent doing a full blown exposure.

You need to expose the affair TODAY before they pre-empt you. Did you read my thread?

And you did the PERFECT THING with your son. I am unsure why you think you messed Up with him?

Sir, you need to EXPOSE tODAY.
Carefully follow the exposure thread and also post the lover on www.cheaterville.com ; you can include a link to that exposure posting in your exposure letters

What should I do?

Now it is time to expose to everyone on his FB list, to your family, your wife's family, and anyone associated with the school and his businesses. Follow Melody Lane's instructions for exposure under her signature.

You are a man of action, and that will serve you well so long as you check in with us to help you follow the plan to the T.

After you have completed exposure to everyone, that POSOM may reconsider calling you again and trying to pacify you. What a scum bag. He will learn that he has messed with the wrong man.

You have a lot of work to do. Your wife will be furious after you expose, but simply and calmly explain to her WITHOUT APOLOGIZING that you are fighting for your marriage and exposed the affair to save it. But first things first. Begin drafting your letter to expose the affair.

Here is a sample letter:

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that she has been carrying on an affair with one of her former instructors named xxxxx xxxxx who resides in xxxxxx.

I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on xxxxxx, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,

Everyone is telling me not to. I feel it will not be a good idea.
I'm stuck! And wha t about my affairs? They were not exposed...
She said she started her affair right after mine. But the difference is that mine lasted 2 weeks and hers have develop into a love relationship...

First read the Exposure 101 link under Melodylane's signature.

Then get yourself some water and fruit, some protein, to nibble on.

Then start exposing!

DO NOT trickle the exposure out over days. Do it all today. Read what Melody says in her link about FB exposure (pay the $1 for each message, and space them out over 2-3 minutes).

Who is everyone?

All of us HERE are telling you to expose!

Do you have a list of close personal friends who have all been through affairs AND have recovered their own marriages?

Ok I will start exposing today. Good point.
Should I expose to the school he works at where they met. To the dean? I feel that will get him fired...

GOOD MAN!

Don't worry about the dean yet.

Focus on your wife's and the OM personal friends, family, and Facebook contacts.

We will help you to make a well-thought out and logical decision about the dean either later today or tomorrow.

For right now�

Start exposing! The first one is the hardest. Get past that first one and then you just keep on rolling!

We're with ya!

No, we are telling you that you should expose. "Everyone" has no earthly idea how to kill an affair and save your marriage.. You should expose her affair because it is ongoing. The purpose of exposure is to kill her affair, not to air all of your dirty laundry. I agree at some point you should tell family about your affair, but don't muddy the waters today.

One more thing. Due to unfortunate financial and personal circumstances we had to unwillingly divorce in 2009 and stay together just for love. Once we had gone through the obstacles we were planning on getting married again. Because of that we had to open our business entirely under her name and the house that we rent is only under her name as well. Meaning that she has the power to kick me out of the business and out of the house if she wants to... I am in a very vulnerable position and I feel that exposing will start a war I can loose.

What were the circumstances?

long sad story. It really doesn't matter, but the fact is that we are not married and we were going to remarried once we opened our business and things started to work our way...
And the fact is that she is in control of all the legal power. I run the house, the money, and the business but she owns everything and own nothing...

You should have told us that you werent married in the first place.
Dr. Harley's programs are designed for married couples.
You are not married; you are divorced and shacking up; this is a terrible role model for your son.

At this point, I think you should cancel the exposure plans and instead read the book Buyers Renters and Freeloaders by Dr. Willard Harley.

(However, you can expose but keep in mind that she ended her commitment to monogamy when the divorce was finalized).

I agree that the circumstances don't really matter now, but the fact that you are no longer married changes everything.

You don't have the right to call this an affair (although it is infidelity) and you no longer have the basis on which to expose. You certainly don't have the right to post this on Cheaterville and I have my doubts about trying to ruin his professional reputation.

MB's exposure plans are created on the basis that a couple is legally and spiritually bound in marriage, and recognised as such by the wider community. All this scumbag OM needs to say in his defence is that this isn't an affair because she isn't married to you.

I think you should try and bring the "affair" to and end because you are bringing up your child together and living as if married. It is important to your son's security that his mother stays with you and does not replace you with another man. However, I don't think that the moral argument underpinning exposure exists for you.

I know I am so sad about this... We we only spiritually bound and felt that nothing could harm our relationship despite what happened.
Should I start to expose to my wife's family who adores me?
Her close friends?
I don't have anyone I could expose in the side of the lover...

I think it does.

To me it makes no sense that anybody could be forced to divorce and live together - I don't see how that could happen, and to me it strongly says that somebody was not thinking rationally, possibly her or possibly you. The circumstances that would prompt such a decision are probably very significant.

I haven't exposed yet. I am home feeling like crap. My son is doing better but he knows what happened. I am not sure what I am going to do. I would love to stay and work on my family but I feel that being here and not making a decision makes me look weak. I am calmed at least and not making stupid emotional decisions. I have talked to my family and friends to get support.
I wish I knew better how to handle a marriage before I went into all the problems. We make such a good couple and it's sad that we had to learn our mistakes and our relationship suffer from it.

This to me sounds really similar to "we did not get married because we couldn't afford a wedding" - the truth is that nearly anybody can afford to go to a justice of the peace and get married.

People don't get married because one or both want to reserve the right to abandon the relationship if it doesn't work out for them. And whatever circumstances were behind this decision to divorce but live together, I would imagine there is something similar.

I meant that I wanted to expose to the people the he works with. He just purchased a dental office and has a doctor partner. My wife told me she has visited them several times and on her messages I wrote that he introduced her to all of them and they all loved her... i don't know how he introduced her as if as a friend or a more than that....

I don't know if they have a policy in the school against teacher student affairs...

markos it is a very sad long story the reason that we had to get divorced. And we couldn't remarried until we get through the problem. The sad truth is that we are no longer legally married and we used to joke how we did not need that "paper" to be the happiest family...

I don't think I will be able to get a hold of her phone again since she keeps it very close to her...

thanks for the help

I think deep inside under all that foggy love she has, she really cares about the family. Or I don't know if I am being blind and she just feels pitty for me to leave me or make me move out of the house. She feels she is in control of everything in the business and it is producing thanks to her. Eventhough I came up with the family money to buy it, set it up, and run it... Because she is the one doing dentistry she thinks she is the sole household provider...

The best step you can take at this point is to get the book Buyers Renters and Freeloaders by Dr. Willard Harley.
In the book, he explains the dynamics of relationships.

You will need this information going forward.

You can email Dr. Harley directly for advice: mbradio@marriagebuilder.com

PLease post your email to him and his reply on this thread so we know what he recommends.

Since you are not married you should not expose. I agree with Jedi about the book, because you and your wife are living the life of renters. Your wife is in freeloader territory now, and since she is not bound by marriage she is free to do what she wishes.

If she doesn't want you to be her husband, and she is intent on being with the dentist POSOM then its time to amscray. I'd write here a Plan B letter.

Why are you so reluctant to tell it?

In the state where I was divorced (NY), continuing to live as a married couple after divorce makes the divorce null and void. Please take the 10 minutes to check into this as it could make all the difference to what happens next.

You need to tell us the truth about why you 'had' to divorce. We are willing to help your family but we can't guess as to what the circumstances are. You need to tell us so we can help the poor little boy in the centre of all this mess.

Renters having a 'live in' relationship can still progress to being buyers in the right circumstances. Please tell us what the situation entails.

Dear friends, I would really love to tell you the truth but I can't. I really do, believe me. What I think is important to know is that we where very happy when we had an unfortunate event and we had to get divorced still being in love. We were not going to be able to get married again until approximately 5 years after.
I want to give an update of my relationship. After I found out I told my kid but not in the best way. I regretfully told him that mom was with another man and deeply in love, even sleeping with him when she was not sleeping home. I feel I should have done it in a different manner. I showed him pictures of the lover and my wife together. I feel I shouldn't have done that cause that would traumatize him. I have been attacked by my wife, school counselors and friends that that was not appropriate and that he should have never even found out about the affair. What is your take on that?
I left home last night. I am staying at my father's apartment and I am devastated. She has changed the password of our cellphone account showing that she will still keep communication with the lover and of course she'll feel more entitled since I am not home anymore. I am devastated and today has been very hard to start to get moving with my life. I would love to save my relation but at this point I don't think it will be possible.
I feel is unfair that I was the one that had to move out even though she was the one on default but at the same time I feel that it will be easier for me to move on if I am away from the memories.

Is there some reading I can show my wife for her to understand that it was appropriate for our child to know about he affair and that she needs to understand the reason he was upset with her was because of her fault. She told me that he was very upset with her yesterday after he saw me leaving. He cried a lot... and I also did.

she says that she does not want me to tell him that I miss him and to only tell him everything is ok, etc...

I'll be the first to say I'm not buying this.

Somebody wanted to date other people, is that why?

noooo markos please. I would say that. It has nothing to do with that. It had to do with a law suit to avoid my wife suffering any consequences but just me....

It's a real shame we can't help you. I can't advise on problems I don't anything know about!

No one is interested in persuading you to be honest and get help. Not me, my life is great. It's your funeral.

Poor kid.

Details?

I don't see how that would change the outcome of a lawsuit. Anything that affects you financially affects her if she intended to remarry you.

Does the family and extended circle know you divorced?

yes they know

Were you involved in a criminal act with a 5 year statute of limitations or was the divorce to hid assets from a lawsuit in which you were alleged to have caused damages to another party?

Is that why everything is in her name?

It appears that the divorce may have been to support fraudulent representations by you to a third party to shield your assets for either restitution for a crime or an award against you in a civil case.

So you did something dishonorable with serious consequences that would have affected both you and your wife if you were legally married.

And you want to conceal that from us, and you want us to believe that you are doing it for some honorable reason like protecting your wife.

Except that the way to change from being a dishonorable person to an honorable person starts with openness and honesty.

Were you charged with child molestation?

As far as I can make out you sacrificed your commitment to your wife so as to hide things from the law. Even if she was willing, the dismissal of your marraige to cover up a mistake that you made, will have had an effect on her. Your mistake ended the marriage vows and the message is that dodging consequences was more important then being bound to her.

It also freed her from any obligation to you. So what if she was in love at the time? She is still free to go whenever the love wanes without having to work on it. You are not her husband.

She is free to see who she likes - including a vulture teacher. As soon as the feelings went away (as they do in a shack up situation) she was free to attach herself to whomever.

You've lost the tool of exposure because you pawned your marraige out to avoid a lawsuit.

The only thing I can suggest is you Plan A her remorselessly and win her back after the natural death of the A. Expose at work if there are rules re teacher student relationships.

As for your son of course you should have been honest with him, but you need to tell him about the divorce and your own affairs. Pledge that you will make it all up to him as soon if she ever gives you the chance.

I also want to stress that its OK if she never does. You must respect her decision as a single woman. You have put her through a lot and she won't even consider you if you start acting like you own her after you tossed out the marriage certificate.

Be the nice guy, the stable guy - no pressure.

It was not mu mistake it was both of us who made the mistake but I decided to take the hit to protect her...

Noooooo child molestation. I wish you guys new me in person and knew me...

The fact that we don't know you actually makes it safer for you to tell us what happened. We don't know you and can't do anything about it. We are just anonymous strangers on the internet.

I'm not buying the noble guy act, though. Concealing crimes isn't really noble.

It wasnt even our mistake. It was a stupid attorney we hired...

This is good advice.

It wasnt a crime markos please stop making bad assumptions.

Btw when I told my son about moms affair I told him I also had an affair. I feelt it could only be fair.
I have gone through so much pain that I have been thinking I should expose the affair i had to my ex-lover's husband. Is that a good idea even it happened a year ago?

But you invite all kinds of assumptions with the dodgy act about it. What are we supposed to think?

Even if it's not a crime, concealing it still isn't noble.

Whether legally a "crime" or not, it clearly wasn't victimless.

I really wish you know markos so you wouldnt think that way.

It is possible for two people to PoJA a mistake. Generally two heads are better than one but two smokers who agree to smoke will still get cancer. You took away the safety net of commitment.



What I do know about you is that you are not very forthright. You make a false show to the court for a lawsuit, you dodge questions here... that is a habit that is not serving you well.




This really is silly. An attorney works for you, not you him. He does as he is told. Anyone who told me to toss out my marriage vows would be fired.


No one is stopping you from telling us.

I have some other ideas, but can't advise while you are still so vague.

Clearly you don't want me to know, so this is just a dishonest statement.

Yes get a good friend to give him pertinent details and your contact number if he wishes to speak to you.

It appears you hid your assets from the court by faking a divorce, then used the "not married anymore" card to have sex with someone else, while continuing to fake to your ex-wife that your divorce was fake.

Lovemyfamily2000, you have really just been loving yourself - not your family.

Now that you are reaping the consequences you don't like them, but I'm not sensing that you have had a change in your heart to become a person with integrity.

MarriageBuilders isn't about soothing over consequences; it's based on having integrity in your relationships and in your life.

Your entire thread is ripe with dishonest behaviour in attempts to protect yourself. It is clearly a pattern in how you live your life.

Rather than adultery, it seems the woman you divorced is exploring her options. Since you are divorced, you committed adultery in the marriage, she is probably thinking that its time to move on. A poor prospect he may be, a choice nonetheless.

For you see, this thread is riddled in lying to save your own behind and minimizing to make yourself look better. It was fine as long as it all went your way but now you pay the price of years of dishonesty.

Good luck sir, I do hope you can reunite your family but you need some serious personal growth first.

I keep getting attacked and disagreed on by everyone to the fact that i exposed my wifes affair to my son. No one agrees. My wife's friends and family, the school counselor, etc. The only ones that are with me are my family members.
What can I tell my wife to understand the fact?
I came back home after leaving for only one night and told her she was the one in default and I love my family dearly. She said she was leaving and wants to take the kid (8yrs old) who is a little upset with her. She says kids' should be with their moms. She is furious I told him. Furious.
Please help.
I really appreciate all the help. I have learned a lot from you guys and if it wasn't for you I would have only found out the calls and not the reality and depth of it.
I'm devastated. Completely devastated. I can't sleep. This is rough.

Please help! Please!!!!
It just hit me and I can't stop crying. I'm devastated and now my poor son is traumatized.

Please read this. It has Dr. Harley's explanation that you can share with others about exposing to children.

Exposing to Children

Thanks, it alleviates the pain a little and makes me understand a little more. Although my wife says we could have just say that sometimes parents stop loving each other and when that happens is better to go separate ways.
My mother-in-law lives with us and at this moment my wife is out with my son and a realtor looking for what she wants our son to think will be "grandma's home" but of course will be his new home because she is planning to take him with her. Something I disagree. How should I act towards that? She says she does not want our son to have any anxiety for what's going on and during the process.

At this point, I think you should focus your efforts on reading Buyers Renters and Freeloaders

Dear builders, just when I was about to pull the trigger and decided that I will no longer continue in this relationship why wife has agreed on work on our family. My decision came after last night she went off insulting me and saying that I am not the man of her life. That her lover was pissed and was going to sue me for invation of privacy and hat I have been a looser all this months trying to save something that was obviously not working. She pushed me, screamed and went crazy. She was excusing herself saying that she was not having sex with me at the same time she was with him. And that she told me several times she wants to be alone. She also said her lover told her I told him we were having sex. Basically I could tell her fury came from knowing ai destroyed her love affair.
She went really nuts and furious. My sun went upstairs and saw her faighing with me pulling my shirt and screaming at me. I can tell she acted like that because her lover broke up with her... I'm glad I've been reading how to survive an affair so I was expecting this and I am expecting a long period of withdrawal and depression from her. I convinced her to send he lover and nc letter and to give me her phone passcode. I am planning on installing the spyware on her phone cause I dont trully believe she will end communication 100%.
I also convinced her to expose her affair to her mother who lives with us that just got home from out of town.
I am planning on plan a her and expect up to 6 months of withdrawal and a bumpy road. I am extremely happy she decided o to all this but at the same time I am scared it will still not work out because I don't see her having what it takes and sacrificing and committing to work on her family.
Just wanted to give an update and hear any comments or sugestions.
Thanks all

Again, my main suggestion is to read Buyers Renters Freeloaders.
Dr. Harley's materials are designed for people that have made a public commitment to marriage.

Neither you nor your wife take marriage seriously so I don't think you will find success by trying to apply his materials to your relationship.

Ok thanks

She went from all that fury and physical violence to agreeing to save the marriage, all in the same night? How did she get from one state to the other?

Not the same night but the next day afternoon...

Fight was last night then she cried during sleep time. Then today afternoon decided to work things out. But I'm not convinced. She didn't show much commitment. Is that normal?
I don't wanna act like I have the upper hand. I humbly accept I created the environment to make that affair happen.

No, sir. That was HER choice.

What she is doing is going back and forth between you and her lover. They probably had a fight and she feels sad and lonely and went back to you.
They will probably make up and she will vacillate between you and him.

Have you followed the suggestion I made and ordered the book Buyers Renters Freeloaders so you can understand the dynamics of your relationship?
I dont want to waste my time posting if you arent going to follow the suggestions

I am ordering the book tomorrow.
Her mom came back. She told her what happened and she said I am not man enough for telling my kid, that it was a huge mistake. She also told her that we should separate cause regardless cause the relationship is too damaged.
So they are moving out to another place maybe in a couple of weeks and I will have to go separate ways.
I regret so much not having installed spyware on her phone...
I just took her phone now and asked her to give me the passcode and of course she refused. I feel like taking it from her hands when is unlocked and taking it to install the spyware but I feel that will make a scene and drive her even further away.

Of course, she doesnt want you to read the messages from her lover or interfer with her independent lifestyle.
She views this relationship from a renter perspective.

Your best hope, as others have mentioned, is to "plan A" her and try to win her over.
Your first step is to read that book

You keep her calling her your wife. She is no more your wife than Beyonce is my wife. You are divorced and she is committed to another man.

The best you can do is write her a letter letting her know that she is the love of your life and that you promise to give her a life of happiness and romantic love if she decides to end her relationship with her boyfriend. (Notice I didn't say affair partner. He's not an affair partner because she is not married to anyone. She is single. A free agent. And even when you were married, both of you behaved as singles practically. That is why Jedi wants you to read the book.) You should also mention in the letter that rebuilding your relationship would be best since your family will be whole.

Should she decide to leave her new boyfriend and start dating you again, you could then introduce her to Marriage Builders ideas and start from there. At that point, I would strongly recommend counseling with the Harley's.

Until then, you can't bust up her affair...because it's not an affair. And if you can't bust up the affair, you can't get her back.

But she says regardless of her boyfriend she believes is best to move away because our relationship is a mess..

But I feel it will be over. I will plan a her correctly this few weeks we have left together before she moves out.
Any other suggestions ??