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OK, I will continie to point out the obvious:OK, I will continue to point out the obvious:

This was one of the conversation topics:

Jen asked OM why did you leave me? I was ready to leave my H for you?

OM replied: I was confused, not sure about my future. Now things are different, I see things more clearly; perhaps we deserve a chance to be happy.


This is the dilemma facing Jen. She is contemplating a second chance to walk into the sunset with OM. I cannot blame her; I am one of those that believe it must be awfully hard to return to the marriage after an affair.

The questions by JL make sense:

Quote
The question is why did you do this? You need to sort that out first and foremost. I realize you are tired and I am sure this is now weighing very heavily upon you.

But, Jen, you need to stop, think, evaluate. Do you really want to remain married to your H?

This is the deal. Jen remained married because OM ended the affair------the H was second choice.

Can this be saved? Not so sure. I suspect Jen would go with OM if he wants her with all the bells and whistles.


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KiwiJ thought that she was "OM proof", she thought she could have the drink, coffee and feel like there was "nothing" there. She thought there was no harm, I am sure. She wanted to show OM that she was in love with her husband again, and that he was n ot going to put the "wool" over her eyes again. She realized too late that those were wrong moves on her part. And now she is terrified of telling her husband, because she does not want to lose her marriage,her husband.

She knows that her husband will be so hurt for what she did. And not only for what she did, for how much time has passed since it happened. She must have time to collect strenght and valor to tell him. She will do it, when she is ready.

I started a thread for her last weeek, when she still had not crossed the line with OM. If she had spilled the beans then,here in MB, nothing would had happened. But she kept it to herself. If something bothers a person, is because you are getting "red flags" "signals" that there is something wrong with the situation.

I am sure her motives were not because she wanted to re-ignite her affair with the OM. Her motives were more of her hurt pride,because he was the one that dumped her, and she wanted to show him, she was doing ok with her husband.

Her renewed contact has triggered a lot of BS here, including my husband. He is really angry and dissapointed in what she did. He is taking it personally <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

I hope Jen can get thru this with her husband. He seems to really adore her and he might be able to get thru this again. I hope they do get thru this, because Jen does love her husband, and even if he was her second choice at the time of ending the affair, he was her first choice when they got married. And fell in love with Ron again, its obvious in all her posts.

I wish them the best and I am almost 100% sure that they will get thru this and NOTHING else will happen in the their future together.

Take care Jen

Myrta

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Would this conversation be a lie or the truth?

“Sweetheart, I’ve got something important to tell you about our marriage. Before you let your mind race with worry let me just say that I am as committed to you and love you with all my heart as ever and what I am about to tell you is because of that commitment and my desire not to place our marriage in harms way. I hope that I am successful but it will be you who will be the ultimate judge of that. Nevertheless, I can’t believe how hard it has been to gather enough courage to talk to you right now, but here goes it…

Last week I ran into the OM. It appeared to be a chance meeting at the supermarket. At the time I was quit proud of myself that I felt NOTHING for him. There was no emotion other then a curiosity. Yet, I agreed to meet him for a cup of coffee. We discussed mundane issues of family and such and although I know it was wrong I felt in control and safe. I feel so foolish for thinking that this could be so simple. This cup of coffee lead to a second meeting at “fill-in-the-blank”. Nothing physical happened. In fact, nothing emotional happened. I shut it down and closed the door. By not immediately telling you after the first such encounter I realize how I had let myself down and now I am letting you down as well. I am so ashamed of myself. It is now clear to me that OM is not over me and will stop a little to peruse me. I further realize that I am the key to end this and I am here to tell you that what happened will lead NOWHERE. I want this guy out of our life and I will stop at nothing to make sure that happens. So I have gathered the courage to ask for your assistance and help and to once again to beg for your understanding. It is so sad and unexpected to find out that my actions from so long ago are still causing fallout in our life as husband and wife. I know that this is more then you bargained for but I have tried to convince myself with every possible argument to keep this information as a buried secret but I think that telling you is the only way, the best way for us.”

Good luck KiwiJ,

Mr. G


"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows," Bob Dylan
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KiwiJ thought that she was "OM proof", she thought she could have the drink, coffee and feel like there was "nothing" there. She thought there was no harm, I am sure. She wanted to show OM that she was in love with her husband again, and that he was n ot going to put the "wool" over her eyes again. She realized too late that those were wrong moves on her part. And now she is terrified of telling her husband, because she does not want to lose her marriage,Ron.


I KNOW that I am OM proof. I have no desire whatsoever to test it or prove it to myself.

And I have no need whatsoever to show the OM that I am in love with my H. again.

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She knows that her husband will be so hurt for what she did


As he very well SHOULD be. Nothing good can come from something you have to hide from your spouse.

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I am sure her motives were not because she wanted to re-ignite her affair with the OM.


Motives are now moot point.

Last edited by Susan; 05/08/06 09:21 AM.

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Hmmmm...this thread just shows again that no matter how recovered a FWS feels and no matter how many years has passed since D-Day, the FWS must ALWAYS stay on guard as far as the OP is concerned...even in cases where there is *just* accidental contact. I know what I'm talking about because I still work at the same company than OM and have very limited occasional accidental contact with him (he works at another department and building). There have also been times where OM deliberately contacted me and I haven't always handled it very effectively and this had caused tension between me and my H. Unfortunately I know I'm still vulnerable to OM in some ways and because of this I'll always stay "on guard" as long as I still work here. It's so easy to go back into the slippery slope if one doesn't stay carefull and keep the boundaries up all the time. Once boundaries has been crossed into inappropriate frienship/EA and/or PA with a person of the opposite sex, it's just not possible to be "just friends" or having "innocent chit chats" with that person ever again...

I'm sorry you have gone back on the slippery slope Jen, but I think you now realize just how dangerous ANY type of contact is no matter the recovery or time-frame... I think you've learned a valuable lesson from this and can use this in future to help and advice other people further and make them aware of the dangers. Also do the right thing Jen and inform your H.

Take care,
Suzet

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Since being on this journey of recovery from an A certain things have hit me along the way. I think last summer I became very aware of what I call the "great divide" between the BS and the FWS. What I mean by that is that the consequences of infidelity are so different for the BS and the FWS. Both are effected, and yet the experiences are so different. The FWS will never understand the crushing trauma to the BS, and the BS will never understand the shame and guilt that comes to a remorseful FWS.

For me, what Kiwi did just illustrates this point. If she really knew what her A did to her H there would be no way she would EVER risk hurting him like this again. If my H were to ever meet OW for coffee and then meet her for a drink, heck even just chat with her in a grocery store, after the utter he** we have endured, the A wound would be ripped open again. OW was my rapist. H brought her into our lives and then allowed her to rape me. He actually participated in the rape. If he understands this he would understand that meeting with her would be meeting with my rapist.

Unfortunately maybe Kiwi's story really does just show that the FWS might never understand this. As much as my H tells me he is disgusted at the thought of OW, maybe meeting her again would erase the fact that she raped me. I would hope he would remember my pain, but maybe he would somehow forget, just like Kiwi. No harm done having some coffee.

Well this is the story that every BS hates to hear. I hate the thought that my H would not have the self-control to avoid OW. In fact, I hate the thought that he might even feel something for her after everything we've been through.

Kiwi, I hope you will just tell your H and get it over with. I hope you will figure out why you walked down this path after all the work you've done. I'm not condemning you, just reflecting on how your story effected this BS.

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kiwi,

i've tried to read most of this post and i still don't know if you told rob?!?!?!?

this is one of my biggest fears that liny will even "talk" to the ow. but some how this is my issues of insecurity and mistrust (well, earned, mind you) but i would also have to look at the "signs" that would allow the "talk" in the 1st place . . . have you? what's going on with you/rob/dd and life that you didn't see?

hang in there. you will always have mine and liny's support.

we love ya {{{{{jen and rob}}}}}

much love, lynn


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LOL


[color:"#39395A"]***Well, it's sort of hard to still wonder if you were consolation prize in the midst of being cherished.***
- Noodle[/color]

Devastation Day: Aug 26, 2004
[color:"#2964d8"]"I think we have come out on the other side... meaning that we love each other more than we ever did when we loved each other most." [/color]
[color:"#7b9af7"]
~Archibald MacLeish[/color]

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Him FWS - 51
I married him all over again, May 07
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Another question:

Assuming Jen wants to stay married.

Is Jen now back in square one? Does she need to re-start withdrawal all over again?

BTW, Myrta made a good point. But, it would be like a scorned woman showing an ex-lover that she has moved on. If there is a need for that----then it means she still has feelings for OM. As I said----most FWWs will always have warm feelings for OM.


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No Stanley...Jen is not back to square one, but her husband probably will be. He will be very very hurt by her actions and he will question his manhood again. She is in a very difficult situation, much more than back to the original DD. Because like all of you said, she is supposed to be out of the "fog"

Yes, she was scorned and she was hurt very much by OM, and she needed it to show him, she had moved on. She thought that OM wanted her for good now, and she was going to have the pleasure of saying "NO" to him. But I bet the words that came out of OM's mouth were not the ones she was waiting to hear. He wanted what they had before, a sordid affair. Not a marriage and happily ever after story book.
He hurt her once again, and it was all her doing this time, because she willingly went to those rendevouz with him, with very open eyes, two years after.

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LOL

I don't think this situation is at all funny 10Swords<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Jen, there had to be a reason that you made the conscious decision to meet with OM. Please tell us what your motives were. As a BS, I would really like to know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Deb

Last edited by beauty; 05/08/06 12:03 PM.

"I hurt myself today, to see If I still feel...I focus on the pain, the thing only thing that's real"... Johnny Cash.."Hurt"
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Hey Pond Scum, anything new??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

KIWI Said
Quote
Do you really think I wanted to come here and admit this horror to people I hold in high regard. I thought long and hard before I posted at all but I knew I had to be honest. It would have been just as easy to keep yucking it up on Idiotville as though there was nothing wrong.


Well now you have, and the general consensus is to tell Rob, and I'm pretty sure everybody is waiting to hear that you have, so what are you going to do about that????

Now that you have all of us ready to hold you accountable, are you ready to hold yourself accountable???


I love you, but man are you an IDIOT!!! You are better than this, I don't mean morally, although that applies also, look at yourself, you deserve goodness, you deserve true love, you deserve Rob's love, stop with this nonsense of the OM.

YOU ARE WORTH MORE!!

Make better choices because you are worthy. You do not need this man to feel good, look within, you are AWESOME!!

B suggests you move, I hear MI is nice this time of year. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Your friend, Jelly


The queen, for her part, is the unifying force of the community; if she is removed from the hive, the workers very quickly sense her absence. After a few hours, or even less, they show unmistakable signs of queenlessness. - Man and Insects
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This is the saddest, most frightening, personally hurtful thread I've read in a long, long time. (Not because of anyone's responses, because of the topic)

Jen, I haven't talked to you personally... and though we've shared a thread or two, I can't say that I know you well. But I really thought you were recovered.

I have to say to those of you who think there's no harm in just saying hello... <shaking head>... THERE'S HARM.

I'm not even in the marriage where the infidelity took place and it's been seven years since my affair. I don't live near the OM anymore, but if I were in town and went shopping and ran into him in an aisle, I promise you, I would LEAVE THE STORE. I would leave the cart and RUN.

I NEVER want to lay eyes on the man again. Ever. Not even for one second. He and I nearly RUINED my life... why would I even want to give him TWO SECONDS of my ***precious time***???

JustJ wrote a beautiful response, Jen. And your friends obviously love and support you. Even the harsh responses aren't as harsh as I've seen before... people obviously care about you.

As for me, I'm horrified. I think it's because I've had to fight so hard to shake this moniker of "cheater" off of my shoulder... I say I will NEVER cheat again, and I KNOW I will never cheat again. I swear to god, I'll kill myself first. That's *not* dramatics. I would rather be dead than put myself in that position again. I can't imagine why someone who knows what it feels like would put themselves back into harms way. You really need to figure that one out... perhaps too late for your marriage, but not too late to save yourself.

I feel worst for your H. It's like he gave you this gift: renewed love and forgiveness, and you tossed it in the trash.

ETA: Before my affair, in 1999... back in 1987... my (then) H cheated on me several times. The final time that year hurt the worst because I had gone to extrodinary lengths to preserve our marriage and rebuild, including moving 100 miles away from the places where these women were. He lied to me (of course) and told me I was crazy for not trusting him. It was worse than the first infidelity, even though less (physically) happened... because he KNEW what he was doing and did it anyway. This is what bothers me most about this situation.

Last edited by new_beginningII; 05/08/06 12:20 PM.


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beauty, I will not speak for Jen, but give you my perspective.

The WS lacks a certain confidence a certain worth, they seek it out from other people. If they do not fix this about themselves, than I feel they will fall back into the WS role, always searching for recognition, acknowledgement, significance from others.


The queen, for her part, is the unifying force of the community; if she is removed from the hive, the workers very quickly sense her absence. After a few hours, or even less, they show unmistakable signs of queenlessness. - Man and Insects
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Ok Jen,

No more hiding out. What is up? All is not lost but some very serious thinking needs to take place now. None of us have given up on you and I don't think you should give up either.

God Bless,

JL

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Myrta,

About this quote:
Quote
Yes, she was scorned and she was hurt very much by OM, and she needed it to show him, she had moved on. She thought that OM wanted her for good now, and she was going to have the pleasure of saying "NO" to him. But I bet the words that came out of OM's mouth were not the ones she was waiting to hear. He wanted what they had before, a sordid affair. Not a marriage and happily ever after story book.
He hurt her once again, and it was all her doing this time, because she willingly went to those rendevouz with him, with very open eyes, two years after.

Are you saying that Jen is hurt because the OM rejected her? Am I reading this right?

Did Jen tell you this? I don't see this in the thread, but maybe I missed it.

And Stan-ley,

Re:
Quote
it means she still has feelings for OM. As I said----most FWWs will always have warm feelings for OM.

I disagree strongly. I have met VERY FEW WS's of either gender who were secretly harboring feelings for their OP. Most around MB, once recovered, have NO feelings left. Maybe I'm a Polyanna or live in some MB-induced-Eutopia-Land... but I believe that most WS never want to be near the OP, or ANY OP-wanna-be (even an inkling of flirtation scares the he11 out of me and many WS's I've spoken with).



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Thanks kyellow,

I hope Jen will tell us in her own words what her truly honest reason was. If what you say is true, how do we as BS's work on that part. I certanly do not want my H to ever want to see OW again. Is this something that was lacking in our M or something that I did not provide to my H, or is it something within WS's that they have to fix for themselves?

I have to admit, this topic is an eye opener for BS's and WS's alike. I would like to learn something from it, so that I will never have to go through what Rob is going to go through.

Jen, please tell Rob, If it were me, I would want H to tell me. It is going to take some radical honesty on your part and some major soul searching.


Last edited by beauty; 05/08/06 02:24 PM.

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Today is my 2-year D-day anniversary.

Reading this thread is like driving past a flaming car wreck; you can't stop looking in horrified fascination.

This is what I have feared for the past 2 years - that my FWH would somehow cross paths with FOW and, for whatever reason, to prove to himself that he's"over" her, to get "closure", "for old time's sake", or for any other stupid reason have coffe, a beer, lunch, or some other inappropriate C with her.

And, here it is, in living color.

K, I can only imagine how you dread telling your H, if you have not already done so. Please consider how much worse it's going to get with each passing day. It's like an infection, festering away. you need to lance it open, draining the poison out.

Secrets are the weapon of the predator. Don't make things worse. Show the OM how unimportant he is. Share this with the H who really loves you.


me-FBS M-6/84 3 great kids A-2/03-5/04 DDay-5/8/04 WD - severe-5/04-9/04 with continuing C; NC ltr-9/3/04 In Recovery with God's help Praying for all WS/BS. Blessings!
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Quote
I believe that most WS never want to be near the OP, or ANY OP-wanna-be (even an inkling of flirtation scares the he11 out of me and many WS's I've spoken with).

I agree, NBII. Just the thought of being anywhere near OM makes me cringe and feel literally sick. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I find the thought of being in his presence revolting.

I'm very sad at this turn of events. Very sad. But I don't feel any kinship as a fellow FWW...no "oh, that could've been me" stuff. None at all.

I honestly hope that Rob can and will continue the marriage. I really do. But, no one could blame him if he doesn't. It's horrible when there just isn't any good answer. No matter what decision is made, by Kiwi or Rob, there is going to be pain and torment. Very sad that it has to start over.

Lori

Last edited by at peace; 05/08/06 01:20 PM.

VERY HAPPY! FBS/FWS; 47yo; M-29 yrs.; DS-26,DD-21; our affairs: 1990-'96
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This is my fear.

My husband says that after what we have been thru he could never do it again. He says he could not forgive me if I had an affair because of the ****** I know that it would create.

I just do not understand how it could happen again.

I will be praying for you and you betrayed husband.


Me (BS) - 38 Him (WS) - 40 DDay - 7/6/04 Seperated - 5/26/04 - 8/9/4 In Recovery The Lord told me to Press On!
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