Hello all!

Have been reading threads at this site looking for a situation similar to mine, but have not found one, so here goes.
Three days after my WW left my 11year old son and I she filed a bogus PFA and immediately came back to the home with the OM ( a friend of both of ours ) in tow. Since I had nowhere else to go I headed to my hometown ( 320 miles away ) with Tyler.
While the OM has not moved belongings etc... into my home, he has been staying there nightly. Ty does not want to visit his mother and is very reluctant to even talk to her.
It has been 6 weeks since leaving and I am starting trade school July 1st and embarking on a new career, have strengthened my relationship with God ( as has Ty ), and have been doing a fairly good job with my own Plan A from what I have gathered from this site. I am going to the library tomorrow to get the books, as my wife is DEFINITELY in the fog and showing all of the textbook signs.
Can anyone give me any help with the logistical aspects of my situation? God bless all who find themselves here to help or be helped. Thank you.

Welcome! Your situation happens quite a bit around here. That is why we advise husbands especially to be very careful. Some WW's have no problem tossing the husband and moving in the OM. But it is pretty cold to put Ty out too.

I hope you will post on general questions, as there is more traffic there.

Have you exposed the affair to anyone that has influence on your wife?

Is the OM married?

How long has the affair been going on?

Are you working? Are you able to support your son when you go to trade school?

OM is not married, affair has been going on for approximately 3 months including the 6 weeks that Ty and I have been gone, I believe that all are aware but am not sure, was thinking of sending a letter to her parents...
Am currently on unemployment and school will be paid for by the state, God has certainly been carrying us, and have been praying for guidance, strength, and wisdom to help fix all of this if it is His will. She attempted to get custody of him with the PFA but did not show at the hearing after realizing that Ty wanted to be with me and she would be fighting an uphill battle. I love her with all of my heart, as does Ty, please help us!

Jim

JustMe, very sorry to hear about your situation. Not to be ignorant, but what is a PFA?

PROTECTION FROM ABUSE- while worthwhile in protecting abused spouses and children, often used to gain control of money, kids, house, etc... which was the case with me. WW has done this before so I sent Ty packing before she filed ( was dismissed, she didn't show up because there was no basis in fact for filing it )

How do you know OM isn't married? Could be important.

PFA dismissed...why not move back in?

Did you expose her affair to everyone?

Have you read up on Plan A?

Oh, and did you see believer's suggestion to move your post to General Questions II forum for the most traffic?

Like all the questions? Oh, and did you want to save your marriage?

LA

OM is a friend of both of ours, definitely not married. I would love nothing more than to move back in but don't think she'd have it. I would climb the highest mountain AND swim the deepest sea to hold her again. Her folks know, don't care, called OM's mom, doesn't care either, says its his business. WW wants to see Tyler before I start school on July 1 but am a little wary... couldn't find SURVIVING at the library but found Dobson. Plan A help? Can't seem to get thru the fog, as time goes by I fear that my chances are dwindling. HELP!

You are married and have an abode...together. Moving back in isn't about her not having it...she can't legally keep you out...

You can do a search for Plan A here online...great posts by Ark, Pepperband, MelodyLane and others...

Her folks know...siblings? Friends? OM's siblings and friends?

You can read online here about Love Busters (LBs) and elminating them...read about Emotional Needs (ENs) and identify yours and hers...read up on the Love Bank and the Four Rules of Marriage...give yourself a real idea on how your marriage has worked and inspire you how it can work.

Own your fear...don't allow yourself to go into the future past today...

Not your job to get through her fog...it is hers. Yours is to be a reality bearer...inject respect into your relationship, make open and honesty statements using "I feel" and "I believe"; listen and repeat, and stop being reactive....

Act don't react.

Know you are half of the marriage...find your choices and power.

I don't know where you live, but have you searched for the laws in your country or state? Grounds for adultery, alienation of affection law, child support and custody...

Knowledge is part of your power...you're here, and that's a huge step ahead...not too late...

LA

Thanks! WW called to ask Ty to come down to try living with her he said no can do... She was crying, begging him, should I call to console her?

Why do you believe you can console her?

She is experiencing consequences of her actions...are you used to getting in the way of her consequences? Could this be why the PFA wasn't the first time...and many others re-occur in your marriage?

Focus on Ty...he matters...he is innocent and may believe he is causing his mother anguish...

Have you read "Between Parent and Child" yet? Helps with your son and your marriage...and your own life...I promise.

No attack...know that you have been a participant in a manipulative marriage, which has gone both ways, and now it will reach out for your son...great time to teach him to act from his code, not react.

You can do this, JMT

LA

Yes, I suppose that I have. Never looked at it like that, guess in alot of cases it does more harm than good, particularly in this one. I know that she needs to realize the consequenses of her actions. Sometimes WW seems open to working on things, other times won't answer or return calls. Ty does not want to return to home, and I fear that if I return before she wants I'll end up in trouble for nothing.

You're not alone in getting in the way, JMT...many of us did...and my H did for me...then wanted me to own my choices.

Choices have consequences...when we get in the way, we are manipulative, enabling...not kind or true, are we?

You cannot make her realize anything...you can listen and repeat...hand her words respectfully back to her, confirm you heard them, and be open to her clarifying them...and know they only reflect her truth, not THE truth.

Know yours...spend this time reading up on relationships...get Harley's books...do the questionnaires for both of you...understand how to have a respectful marriage, not an enmeshed, manipulative one...

Learn love is a choice, not something we earn...and that marriage is for two whole, complete people who complement one another, not complete each other.

You can do this...own what you feel...you fear...your choice to return home is from fear...that doesn't make it a right or wrong choice...just yours...your choice.

LA

I just don't know what to do or say... Should I keep giving even though I'm not getting? Should I back off or keep leaving kind, loving texts... confused!

Do you believe in giving to get? Hurting back? This would be good to know what your premise is in life...

Would you be giving without getting now...or your marriage back later?

Do you believe you did a Plan A before you moved out? Or did you LB a lot?

Hard to Plan A at this distance...what are her top ENs? What are your LBs?

How high do you value your own honesty? What are your boundaries around you?

These questions will decide what you choose to do...

LA

I don't mind giving, never have, and NO to hurting back. You know what they say about pushing someone away... I don't demand, don't get angry or hurtful. Checked the list of approved schools for the training that I am going to start soon and there is one 3 miles from the WW. I informed her that I will be going there and will be staying at the house- she said we'll have to work a few things out but, " I guess its OK." The course is 6 weeks long. By then I'll have the book and will be able to do an informed plan A instead of guessing how to do one from reading the threads on here. At this point I am the only one that is being honest. Before the split we both LB'd each other to death! I have been and continue to "plow my own field" so to speak... the break has actually been very positive from a self-improvement standpoint although very painful. I appreciate your help and the directness with which you are guiding me!!

LA are you out there? WW wants to see Ty this weekend as we will be in town to pick up one of his friends for a week long stay with us. Told her if OM and all of his belongings were gone we would not only stop by but stay the weekend. She says we'll discuss it... I don't want to back down. Am I being unreasonable? Friday will be 18 years, not that it means much to her...

I have a question for you and your answer will help the posters get a clearer view of the situation so they can help to steer you in the right direction.

In the past when your W filed PFA`s was that because there was some type of physical altercations between the two of you?

I'm here, JMT...sorry I missed your post...bump anytime, 'k?

I think that is a good boundary...whether she complies or not is out of your control (always is)...making the boundary, though, was good.

Going to Daisy's question...you can be honest here...only way to really get help...also, are you at risk for another one, staying the weekend?

How are you doing? How is your son?

LA

Thanks for getting back LA! There were altercations, BUT NOT PHYSICAL! She has manipulated the system to gain control of my son and to hurt me... Just like she got the house. Just got off of the phone w/WW, 18 years today... WW said " Its a shame things didn't end up differently." I asked her to explain... She said its too bad that we couldn't withstand the pressures that we were under for so long and that she left. Ended by stating that things won't be fixed. Without revealing this site I told her that situations even more dire than ours have been resolved and marriages are stronger than ever. Asked me to admit to infidelity early on in relationship/marriage and simply said that we've both made huge mistakes. The brutal honesty is saved for when the rebuilding takes place, right? I said if she wants to talk of D call my attorney, if she wants to talk of rebuilding M call me and we said goodbye. I think she plans to tell Ty about my mistakes to convince him that her A is OK. Now what? Should I try to get together with her to discuss MB practices? Should I talk to Ty about my mistakes?

You're welcome, JMT...

"Its a shame things didn't end up differently." I asked her to explain... She said its too bad that we couldn't withstand the pressures that we were under for so long and that she left. Ended by stating that things won't be fixed. Without revealing this site I told her that situations even more dire than ours have been resolved and marriages are stronger than ever."

Here was an ideal time to practice listen and repeat...because what you did was validate her truth and then argue your own...which tells her that she's wrong...

Rather: "I hear you saying you are sad that you chose to end our marriage because you didn't believe it would withstand the pressure of your affair, is that correct?"

Can you see where you aren't aruging...you're respectfully asking for clarification or confirmation...and there's choice inserted there...which is truth...no arguing, "No, it can be great!" That is your truth, what you believe...and yeah, I'm all for that belief! Listen and repeat injects respect back in...owning you're choosing to save the marriage and you believe 18 years matters, and you're choosing to live in that truth.

Hand back her own words...not combatively...and acknowledge you understand this is what she is saying, believing, feeling.

That's ownership. What is hers remains hers...you don't take it and judge it...you own your own stuff...no room.

Can you see where there was no reality in her statement that "we couldn't withstand the pressures so she left?" That's mixed pronouns for a reason...she does not own her choices, her life...so she does not know her power. Please respect and hand her back what was always hers...that's you acting from your code, not reacting to her beliefs.

I didn't understand the part of her asking you to admit infidelity early on...

Own all of you, JMT...all is in the past...your choices...how can you show respect when you don't own? What we leave for recovery is the FWS owning theirs...you can't make someone own...you can listen and repeat, hand back, and example yourself.

If you withhold your truth, then you are lying, as she has, through omission...if you withhold ownership, then you are caving to blame...not wanting her to justify with any more evidence...which you can't control. Being true to yourself halves the pain of betrayal you are feeling...being truthful to her and respecting her choices are hers...your truth remains yours...is what breaks this 18 years of enmeshment and saves your marriage.

IMO.

Why offer her "if she wants to talk of D, call your attorney?" I believe you were going for "I don't do divorce. I do marriage." However, it doesn't sound totally true...if you are offering her to talk to your attorney...something off there...maybe you making sure she knows you have one? If she wants a divorce, she can get her own attorney, correct? I suspect I'm not getting what you meant. I'll let you clarify, 'k?

What do you want most to give your son in this life? Material stuff? Security? Comfort? Knowledge? Or your self? What do you think you say to Ty?

You can't educate a WW...it's disrespectful even to a FWS...because they are fully capable of educating themselves...stating what you believe, think and feel now, with new knowledge and perspective; listening and repeating; enforcing your boundaries; acting from your standards; educating yourself further (and this is part of the self-care in Plan A)...all that is actions...

Ownership instead of blame...changes everything. Owning and forgiving yourself has to come before forgiving others...seeing your part, your power...can't be all of it, can it? Not finding fault, but truth, as your intent, changes your life. I think you're getting that really well.

What were your LB's...how have you eliminated them fully...and have you been sharing what you learn with Ty?

Breathe...breathe...you're doing great, being yourself...oh, and make paragraphs, please.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(((JMT)))

LA

LA,
Here goes, last contact...
"As far as I am concerned, we're not married, so I am not having an affair."
"So you are saying that you choose to think that we are not married in order to justify your affair, is that correct?"
"No, its the other way around."

We were discussing Ty visiting, and since he has no desire to see her without my presence, I suggested that we get together.
"You need to stop forcing yourself on me."
"You are right, I need to stop trying to fix this for you, the choice to have an affair was yours alone and so are the consequenses with Tyler."
"He would be living with me if he was aware of half of the **** you pulled."
"You have my permission to attempt to undermine my credibility with him."

I then proceeded to tell her that the infidelity that she suspected before Tyler was born did take place and that I was sorry for breaking her trust in me.
"So it was OK for you to **** all of those girls when you were playing (I was a professional musician), but its not OK for me to leave you to have a happy, meaningful relationship?"
"Neither situation is OK."
"How many women were there?"
"Several."
"Don't call me this weekend I'll be very busy."
"I won't, we will be busy as well."
"Doing what? Where will you be?"
"Guy stuff, will be here if you need."
"Well don't call me!"

I know that finally being honest was the right thing to do, but I feel like crap inside.
Mean no disrespect to anyone LA, doing the best I can. Discussed my mistakes with Ty, we talked about immoral and disrespectful behavior being wrong, no matter what the reason behind it is. Thank you LA.


JMT

LA
I am FREAKING out, I feel that I have just dashed any hopes of reconciliation. Could being honest possibly help my situation, if so, how? I can almost hear her saying, "You deserve all of this for cheating on me!"
Now what?
JMT

LA,
WW called first thing this morning... just small talk, nice conversation, Ty didn't want to talk to her, and I didn't make him. Have been looking at the way you have helped others here, THANK YOU for helping me and ty, from the bottom of our hearts!

JMT

Hi, I know you feel bad right now, but you have done the right thing. There is nothing worse that old trouble coming out when things are beginning to go well - it is a huge LB. So your honesty now, has diffused a much worse episode later.

I had 42 months of finding things out - so many false recoveries and I believed every word WS said. You do not need this to happen - you are getting great advice, it is hard to do the right thing, you will see results eventually in your own self respect and that will help you get through things.

SP

JMT,

You can freak out...know that feeling, and not act from it. That freak out is fear and you did something very important...you balanced yourself.

You were ripped up by WW's behavior, and you had hid your own. It was from withholding that info from her which was part of the pre-A problem...we think don't ask, don't tell works...it is a termite in our structure...eating inward and outward.

Which is your goal...to recover your marriage or to rebuild a balanced, respectful one with your FWW (when she is)...?

If you want the latter, then you have to risk her being so wounded and using your past behavior as justification (on top of all the suspicions in her head) to continue her A.

See how long the consequences of infidelity reach? And yeah, owning your own stuff, even years past, is what you want to do so you know who you are, what you chose, and why you chose it...and I'm with silverpool, ask WW if she wants to ask her questions all at once, which you'll truthfully answer, or if she wants to ask them over time...that you're concerned, remorseful and want an honest marriage.

Which, I believe, you are...so was I, when I understood how much this pain sliced me in half...to have done that to my H...whoa...that and finding out I chose...my choice...so I no longer am a serial cheater.

Changes your life, JMT...and yes, you're doing well being honest with Ty...Remember, though, you're his hero...you have superpowers...he isn't going to get (and this isn't his fault nor yours) all the impact of it for years and years...ownership goes a long way...and you're doing great...just something to mentally munch on.

I've been offline with a downed home computer...and then the website decided for half today (from work) to buck and halt...

God's helping me break my addiction.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

In my thoughts and prayers,

LA

LA/pool,
The worst case scenario here is that I lose a wife but regain myself. There is power in knowing that you cannot change a WS, and the time and emotion is much better spent on yourself! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It feels great knowing that I will be better equipped to handle whatever He has in store... I keep repeating,"Thy will be done, Father!," having faith that the best is yet to come! Thank you for your continued thoughts, prayers, and guidance.

JMT

Worst case scenario is that you have to accept God,s will - as you are doing now - whatever comes of this, it is exactly what you need to travel through in order to become the person God had in mind when you were conceived.

SP <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LA/SP,
WW is definitely using truth to justify A. She said that the last 18 years have been a lie.
"Yes, and the first one was me having anything to do with you until you were divorced."

She was married when I met her, and just like this situation, told me/others that he was abusive, controlling, unfaithful, etc... I really think that my chances are slim for reconciliation considering the pattern, but I'm not nearly ready to throw in the towel. The big differences are that H#1 was glad to be rid of her and they had no children. Married three years. Guess I should have told you guys that from the beginning.

Called today to pressure me into bringing Ty down, said I needed to, "step up and do the right thing..." but I reaffirmed the boundaries that I put in place to protect myself and Ty.
"When OM is gone we will gladly come down."
"That will not happen and I will spend time with Ty no matter what it takes. It is not fair that you are keeping him from me."
"You are saying that you feel it is unfair that your affair has divided our family, is that correct?"

Dial tone... Did I LB or is this frustration with the situation that her choice has created? She keeps on telling me that she's happy but doesn't sound or act like it... Very angry and disrespectful, it is making it very easy for me to be an example because I no longer have a desire to act like that. It fills me with pride when I don't let myself get drawn into the turmoil... Next?


JMT

Good reply - just keep going and present her words back to her - you are getting the hang of it.

Well marriages born of affairs have a very low chance of survival, but that doesn't mean you cannot build yours into a good one. She is getting angry and you are doing as you should. Allow her to use the truth as she wishes - she has to get it out of her system for you to be able to move along.


Sp

SP,
WW is wanting us to visit, told her again when OM is gone will happily visit. Called OM last night and respectfully asked him to leave my home as the A is dividing our family and hurting us all, even WW. Told him that I am fighting for what is right and just and will not falter. WW called this morning, said she was up all night, very upset about whole situation, and wants a visit. I am not pushing her but letting her know that Ty and I miss her and are here for her, but the boundaries are not negotiable. Trying to be a lighthouse.

JMT

Good for you - keep it up, I admire tha calm stance you are taking when dealing with this.

How are things with you and Ty since you told him of your exA?

SP

Hi, JMT...

"WW is definitely using truth to justify A. She said that the last 18 years have been a lie.
"Yes, and the first one was me having anything to do with you until you were divorced."

She was married when I met her, and just like this situation, told me/others that he was abusive, controlling, unfaithful, etc..."

I see this as good news for you...because you can agree with her whole-heartedly...you've learned it wasn't right, how it feels to know what you did, own it, know better, do better. This isn't about your WW's choices...your own...sharing...and you now stand in her ex-husband's shoes, realize how you bought her perspective, took it as your own, and are now freed by seeing truth from her actions, not her beliefs.

You get it. Tap dance, J...you get it!

Also, you understand better your wife's permission to herself to alter her life based on her feelings...and belief that her issues are external...replace the spouse fixes the problem. You can see this isn't working really well, can't you?

Have you inventoried and owned your part in being OM nearly two decades ago? Owned this stuff to her...as an amends? I ask because it your self-care, understanding and truth I'm most concerned with...that it might have a byproduct result with your WW would be just that...not within the intent...just you holding yourself to your standard of honesty and openness and ownership...which helps you enforce those same boundaries.

Why would you choose to believe your chances for reconciliation are slim? How does choosing this belief aid you in Plan A? You didn't know you'd be in this situation, and the more you are in it, the more see where it is a repeat of patterns you didn't see before...wouldn't the future be as unknowable?

You are doing well with listening and repeating, handing back her words with choice...staying true to yourself...

Can you get a book from the library, "Between Parent and Child"?

LA

Well, WW just informed me that another PFA has been filed, she will be getting Ty thru the Family Court system, so don't bother coming down unless I want to go to jail. I haven't a clue what set her off, talked to her this morning, no indication of trouble... Time for Plan B?

JMT

WW called to talk to Ty, he handed me the phone and walked away... Well, the LBing commenced from both sides, reaching grand proportions. Sucked me in, she did. Given the PFA ( which I will verify Mon. a.m.) I didn't feel real bad as she has been treating me horribly, but I am angry with myself for not being an example and letting the anger show.

JMT

Have you talked to your attorney about abusive filing? What are the steps you have taken before to have the PFA's dropped or can they be ruled on with prejudice so they can't be refiled?

Use your time to gather whatever reports you need to contradict her filing...phone records, mileage on your truck, anything to show you are not doing what she says in order to obtain the PFA.

Plan A is about truth...takes a lot of work with no expectations...and hanging up is better than LB'ing any time. Your son just taught you that.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,
Confirmed PFA was a lie and went to house unannounced while WW was at work and discovered why she didn't want me there.The truth that she didn't want me to know...

a. OM's clothes in closet, dresser, etc... he's way in
b. OM's teenage son is living there, has his own room.
c. $500 puppy that was supposedly Ty's belongs to OM"s son.
d. back yard, beautifully landscaped and supposedly being maintained, looked like a jungle, pool water black.
e. WW is not happy, didn't look it or act it.
f. Ty's room supposedly done being remodeled for him still torn apart and full of junk.

WW arrived a few minutes after I did, OM watched from the street, She knew that I'd seen the truth... that she is living a lie... and I knew it... I could see the pain in her eyes... but I felt it best to get my stuff and go...( with a 6-pack of OM's Heineken, left him 2...)
Called to thank her when I left, she said not to call her again... but I have 4 months of Plan A to do, waiting for SAA to arrive, will it be too late? Not giving up hope... should I wait for her to call? I feel that her anger and unhappiness are being directed at me because I am the easy target... If she takes it out on OM, who is paying most of the bills, she loses her meal ticket...

JMT

I guess I don't get where you saw the lie...had she been telling you different? You began your thread acknowledging that most likely, OM moved right in...was there something in you that didn't want to believe that?

Did you take a camera? Photograph Ty's room and OM's son's room? Gathering evidence of reality is important...for custody, future PFA's (or fake ones)...

Plan A means you are the reality bringer...calm, respectful and true. Helps you not to fall for fantasy...of your own making...wishing...hoping...and stay grounded in faith, knowing what you control and what you don't. Knowing the power of your own choices and not fearing them.

You don't have four more months of Plan A if you must live inauthentically to do it. What would be the point? You've exposed to everyone...her work, family, your family, all your friends...that's bringing reality. You've created boundaries and are enforcing them.

Making love your choice, instead of it being earned by her, her actions...is how Plan A is authentic and doable. Going to Plan B, complete with letter, a way back, and a third-party, isn't retaliation...it truly is being a reality bringer, with loving limits, even in darkness.

How about sharing those feelings out right, in the light, instead of hidden in describing actions...you thought you saw pain in your WW's eyes...about her seeming unhappiness...what about you, J? Think about it...you're in training for an awesome marriage...radical honesty and respect...

Practice.

Here.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,
I just don't KNOW how to act sometimes, or love when it seems to invite more hostility... I don't want to plan B - I'd rather continue to do a good A, I guess I'm not doing so well since I haven't gotten the book. If she doesn't want me to call shouldn't I respect that? Should I Plan B not having done a good A? HELP!

To find your center, you act from your code. You do not choose based on possible responses or previous ones. If you believe you love less when you are responded to with hostility, then these teen years coming up are gonna be rough with Ty.

And they are rough enough.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

This is where DJ's come in with such power...in order for you to fear loving the face of hostility, you much suppose the hostility is caused by you. What do you feel if you suppose you aren't the cause?

If you choose to guide your choices by your feelings, you'll be in a continuous loop, won't you? Your feelings come from your beliefs...your DJs, expectations, assumptions...to live by them is to live backwards.

So you choose to live to your goal...to save your marriage, be true to yourself in the face of betrayal; and you choose from those priorities, not feelings.

Her desire is not to call her. What is yours? You can write letters, open and honest, as if you're making those statements in person. Simple, direct. So can Ty. You can align your intent with your goals and choose from them. You can share this journey with Ty, without burdening him...feelings are tough to stay in touch with, to know, to describe pain well enough to know its source...and it comes from within...worth a lot of open dialogue.

You make love your choice, and your acts of love can be...prayers, lifting you up, Ty up and WW up; envisioning the marriage you really want to have, seeing your part, then being that now...

You can examine your beliefs...choose to know OM's teenaged son is not ursurping Ty's place...he is as much of a victim of his father's affair as is Ty...you can bring out what is in you and look at it, without judgment or disdain...you can love yourself directly, not going through WW to get back into you...

You can focus on good memories not as solace, but truth. Keeping these in your awareness is crucial for seeing today as just today...not eternity. Hasn't always been like this, so it won't always be, will it?

You are loving anyway, by choice, J...that's a good Plan A. Judging yourself means you judge others, just as harshly. You are your own resource...be kinder to you, and you will be to others. Be more forgiving to yourself...embrace those human limits...and you will be more forgiving towards others.

What you won't do for yourself, you really don't do for others...you may only think you do.

I back you on your choices...except to LB...within yourself or to others.

You can read a lot about Love Busters here...free...someone may have a copy of SAA...I'll look for mine...and we can send it to you...I did most of mine at the library...including the Five Languages of Love by Gary Chapman.

Spend your time focused on what you do control and less on what you can't. That's respect. How about you don't think of it as respecting her wishes...but choosing to honor them or not?

Respect is a messily defined word. Stay really aware and conscious of details within you...know why you went to check out the house, why you felt what you felt when you were there and what you saw...know more and more about yourself and your craving to know more about what she's doing, thinking and believing will abate.

LA

LA,
If her mind is made up to just bide her time until D and then drag him through the courts, being the stubborn person that she is, I can't help but think that my efforts are in vain. I desperately want to believe that there is hope, but it is so hard...These are the things I can't control... AHA!
Now I'm starting to get it LA!Thanks for helping me to focus on the goal! BE STILL... BE STILL... I need to start getting more of this right, not just the dancing... THANK YOU!

JMT

P.S. Told Ty he needed to call WW every night and tell her about his day, he did and man was she excited... WW asked who's idea it was, "Daddy's"... SAA arrived today, stayed up WAY late reading until my eyes started crossing!

LA/POOL,
School starts Monday for 6 weeks, WW called this morning wanting details... Know where this is going... wants Ty to come down while I'm there. School is an hour away but will be driving home daily (state is reimbursing for mileage and car repairs). I do not wish to fight with her, Ty has no wish to go there with OM in house. As always, if she doesn't get what she wants it will be my fault...


JMT

Great to see your post, J...remember, also, no one can make anything your fault...their belief is theirs...yours is yours.

Remember this...you have to take offense...take blame...can't be forced on you.

School already? Wow...time went by. Felt slow for you, I'm sure. Rather exciting to have something you have to focus on while she does her thing.

Stay present...will help you with school...no jumping into the future. I'm betting your WW won't file for divorce, nor will the A last...might even want to have ended it already except now she feels responsible for having OM & son in the house...

Yes, being still allows her to find her own way...and it's a way back to you and her real family...out of her fantasy one.

Keep posting.

LA

LA,
Know that the blame is not mine for whatever happens... There is actually a school back home that I could have gone to, taken Ty with me, and stayed at the house... WW was not willing to make that happen, but that's OK... When the inevitable conversation takes place I will thank her for her kind offer to look after Ty while I'm in school but he's just fine here with the folks and I. Honestly, I would rather not discuss it if it is going to end up in a fight, but I don't have to let that happen, do I? My choice... My power...

I have changed my whole perspective since you advised to act from the goal and realized how self-centered some of my actions were... same old manipulative me... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Let's hope you are right LA, let's PRAY you are right LA, Ty told her last night that he did not want to come down while OM was in our lives, "I understand... I know in my heart that I will see you soon..." Know not to read too much into ANYTHING WW says , but at least his boundaries are registering with her. Thanks again LA! Hope to be given the opportunity to utilize the info in SAA to have the marriage that ALL OF US deserve!

JMT

Hi JMT

I just wanted to say that I've been reading your story and I'm praying for you too. I mostly lurk but once in a while I peek out and say hi. Good luck with school and with the Ty and WW situation. It does sound like she can't blame you since Ty told her he didn't want to go there while OM was there though. Hooray for that kid and his having the guts to tell his Mom what he's feeling. That boy is obviously so strong and I'll keep him in my heart and prayers. Well, just giving you a little support. Good luck.

HU2006

A little clarification on what I intend to share...

" Honestly, I would rather not discuss it if it is going to end up in a fight, but I don't have to let that happen, do I? My choice... My power..."

You can choose not to discuss it. Your choice. Your power. No one can make you discuss it.

Know you are choosing not to discuss it from fear...fear of conflict, a fight...if you are not open to any other alternative, then I understand not discussing it because you are sure of all the alternatives and none of them are conducive to your standards. If you're sure of all the alternatives.

Discussing is to brainstorm alternatives you may not have thought of...to allow another person's influence, ideas...perspective...that is your choice. Know your intent...from fear or love...which tells us whether we are being honest or not with ourselves.

I disagree with self-centered actions...dripping judgment...would you consider they were manipulative actions chosen from fear?

Can you see when we choose from fear, then most of our experience is of fear?

Choosing from our standards, which we define with our beliefs, from love...then our experience will mostly be of love, won't it?

Your WW didn't abuse Ty by telling him he is wrong about his boundary, or emotionally blackmail him with, "If you loved me, you would..." Like you, not reading into what she said or didn't say...just acknowledging, there are more responses she didn't give which I am grateful for the response she gave.

That come close to your heart lightening...in truth? Actions will prove her later...for now, you can feel hopeful because you're strong, learning, growing...and excited, aren't you? You've learned a lot about relationships, how to protect our own weaknesses...and you're about to learn more and, in school, and out.

I believe it all will benefit you, your son, and your marriage.

My choice.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

HU2006,
Thank you for the support, thoughts, and prayers, may His love also light your path.

LA,
Let me clarify... I would be HAPPY to discuss it with her and brainstorm TOGETHER for an alternative! That was the point I was trying to make... being calm in the face of adversity to avoid AO's, LB's, etc... and being strong enough to suggest going back out in the boat when the seas have calmed, so to speak.

Yes, I agree with that description, and yes, fear begets fear, anger begets anger, love begets love. I too am thankful for her response... very much unlike past responses that came from her fear... she is starting to sound like I do when communicating with her.

I am hopeful, excited, and very thankful that there are people, you in particular, who care enough about someone they have never met to help them be the best that they can be... and be there when the one they care about most is not... to get them through one of the darkest times in their life. God Bless You, LA... for showing me how to dance instead of shooting myself in the foot!

JMT

Thank you for clarifying...hey, I can be dense, ya know.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And you did it in such a classy way...

As for as you receiving support here...

My belief, as you know, is what we do for ourselves, we do for others...conversely, what I do for others, I do for myself.

Balance. No sacrifice. Bravery, yes...risky out here. Reinforces you're worth it; I'm worth it.

I love your "how to dance instead of shooting myself in the foot!" That's a treasure in itself.

Did you say you're starting class on Monday? Or Wednesday? Is a Ty a pyromaniac for the 4th? (I was...and yes, my sons were...like payback)

Tell me a story, JMT...one of your 4th's...

LA

LA,
WW called today to inform me that OM and son would be moving back to his mom's and she would be coming up to get Ty. WHOA! I politely said that unless there is some discussion about this that would be a great waste of time and gasoline.

"It is not your parents' job to raise Ty while you are in school, it is mine."
"I understand how you feel and I want you to raise your son."
"So I can come and get him?"
"When you are ready to commit completely to our family we will gladly come down."

I simply told her that, while I am proud of her courage in asking OM to move out of the house, unless her break from him is complete there is nothing to talk about, and that the boundaries that are in place are non-negotiable. If OM is in your life we are not coming down, and under no circumstances will Ty be coming down alone. We will, however, offer to come down for a weekend to negotiate the removal of OM from our lives. WW cannot afford to pay the bills without his assistance due to her limited amount of hours. I will not let myself have any expectations regarding these recent developments, but will be hopeful that these are the first steps that I have seen, to this point, that are in the right direction. Any thoughts/opinions?

JMT

Thoughts/opinions?

Whoa.

You are definitely not in a fog! You are really good at not buying into what you want to believe, choosing to remain in truth.

I would give you a standing ovation of admiration, but then I wouldn't be able to reach the keyboard.

Your boundaries rock.

You rock.

LA

LA,
Start Monday, will try to make it through Tuesday with all fingers intact.

2 years ago WW and I went to see Earth Wind & Fire/Chicago in Camden NJ, talked and laughed all the way there, danced during the show as if we were the only ones there... went home and made love till the birds started chirping... silently watched the sun come up in each other's arms next to the pool... Geeeez LA, you made me make me cry...

JMT

Hey, I'm crying with you...what a wonderful experience...and such great taste in music...these are yours...they happened...nothing can change the past...even if you want it to be changed...there is a blessing in that, and you found it.

Cherish your truth, JMT...it's beautiful. Thank you for sharing it...

Yes, please keep fingers intact...typing would be tougher.

Be well.

LA

LA,
Thought this was going to be a quiet day, but... WW called Ty to come down AGAIN, this time started to get nasty with him and hung up.

"I want you to come down"
"Not without Daddy"
"Well Daddy can't stay"
"Then I'm not staying either."
"Why not?"
"Because I don't want to stay there without Daddy."
(In the background) "Angelo you open the recliner with
brown lever"
"What was that and who is that?"
"That's Angelo he lives in the neighborhood and his dad Rob is a friend of mine."
"Why are Ken and Kenny still there?"
"It's 10:00 can we do this tomorrow because I want to go to bed. Goodbye."

She wants to go to bed... with guests in the house? Rob who? ANOTHER FRIEND? WW has alot of FRIENDS lately... Maybe that's why Ken and Kenny are on their way out...

I called back to ask what the problem was and WW didn't answer, generally will not talk in the evening when OM is there but will gladly talk during the day when he is not.
Left message stating that Ty would not be left there alone, a.) because he doesn't want to be... b.) after going down last weekend and finding out that the things that I've been told are either half-truths or not true at all, and given WW's tendency to use the Family Court system to gain control of situation that I would be a complete idiot to leave him there alone. c.) I am beginning to wonder if it is wise to take him there at all.

I realize that that message may have bordered on DJ/LB etc... but I am growing increasingly tired of the anger, lies, disrespect, and quite frankly am beginning to wonder if I am capable of doing this much longer. She is now turning her sights on Ty to badger and intimidate him into visiting... getting short with him when she feels threatened by his questions. Is this showing love? doing love? What do I do? Plan B time? HELP!

JMT

LA,
I guess the last post had you cringing... like OOOOOH, he DIDN"T say that did he? Sometimes I feel so strong, confident, etc... when WW is able to talk like a human being with feelings... then when the rain comes...I crumble.

Went down home last weekend to fill in with my old band, called and asked her to buy me a beer, WW asked where I was at, told her I was too far past her work, called later and asked her if she would sneak out and cheat on her boyfriend with her husband... knowing very well that I would get no response but did it in a humorous, fun way.

Started school this week and called her today and told her how excited I was, how Ty is meeting new friends and is having a blast, then the old familiar dial tone... called on Ty's phone and when she knew it was me - click, dial tone... Where does all of the anger come from? The disrespect? Stopped with all of the A talk and us talk, no anger, LB's, DJ's, AO's, etc... don't get it... Is this textbook? SAA didn't really cover this stuff... Hope you all had a good holiday.

JMT

Now you DJ'd me...no, I didn't cringe...I got distracted.

Tell me, how do you enforce boundaries? Would you like to teach Ty about boundaries and standards? Support him in choosing and acting from his code, instead of reacting?

You are still reactive to your WW...which from years of enmeshment, isn't changed with a couple of months...take focus and a goal.

And it truly isn't her twisting you around...your own expectations contribute to kicking your tushie...

I remember.

Where does all the anger, disrespect come from? She's having an AFFAIR...she has a fantasy going which takes all her resentment (wearing thin), old anger, grudges and warped thinking to continue to justify...using new fodder at every turn, like feeding a speeding steam engine train going up the Rockies...she would throw in the passengers, if need be...

Hey, you called and invited her to reality in a humorous way...and didn't care about the response...WAY TO GO!

Why did you tell her you were too far past her work?

I find DJs in the oddest places...

Do not allow yourself to call on Ty's phone...you don't want her not taking his calls thinking they are from you. Honesty first. You handled the first dial tone. Respect it.

You are doing well...following Plan A...what, you thought it would work overnight? Look to your expectations...you are really doing this well...exposure...more exposure at her work? Anywhere? His entire family? The neighbors around your family home?

Know your own truths...your WW is lying. She opens her mouth, it's a lie. Your choice to believe the lie or expect her to tell whole truths is yours.

Not a DJ to do this...reality bringer...even to yourself.

Teaching Ty to listen and repeat would be neat...(yes, I said neat...I'm old)...because it is respectful and true power...his own...when he may be feeling really powerless against her pressure...he loves her. Remember that. Forever.

In your 6/29 post, you were having a down, reactive day...expect those. That's reasonable. Same as an upbeat for no reason day...when what you are doing, your great goal, sees you through...without being dependent on response or results...what you do, think, feel and believe matters.

Pass it on.

Teach Ty his tools...when she gets short, demanding...uses emotional blackmail...what better tools can you really ever show him? He's worth understanding the difference between boundaries and selfish demands...that he is worthy, valuable and equal to everyone else...give it a shot.

Lemme know. And if I miss your thread (MB was being cantankerous a few times), bump it for me. I've bookmarked it, but if I lose my system again, I lose the dang bookmark.

How is school? How are you doing with self-congratulations? Appreciation? Attention and conversation?

LA

Bumping for an update...

LA

LA,
WHEW! What a great week... I am digging school so much that I've barely noticed that two weeks have gone by! Typed a HUGE post last Sunday before bed only to see the this form is no longer valid message, guess I got a little long winded... Didn't feel like typing for another 1/2 hour so...

Have kind of been laying low with WW since school started, talked to her briefly last Friday and she apologized for the hang-ups and bad attitude, called her Monday, usually do to ask about her weekend... she didn't answer but actually returned my call! Phone battery was WAY low, thought I had left my charger at home (was actually DEEP in my duffel bag) so I was saving what little juice I had to talk to Tyler and didn't call her back again. I guess I should have called and explained because the next message I got from WW said that all of my belongings were headed for the trash if I didn't call, and 3 bags of clothes etc... were already in the trash. WW didn't answer her phone so I called the neighbor to retrieve the clothes (with WW's permission) and she admitted that she didn't throw anything out except some stuff that I had told her to get rid of anyway...

I am purposely backing off calling WW to concentrate on school , I need my head on straight... and it has paid off. I graduated with a 99% from the classroom portion of school, now on to the driving! Monday was the first time she has returned a call in months... should I continue to cut back and/or keep contact to a minimum? Do you think that the clothes to the trash call was a result of my not calling back on Monday?

WW also called Ty during the week and he expressed his desire to reunite our family, WW's response was, "So we can all be miserable again?" Ty said, "No, so we can be happy again." WW said she had to go... but asked when he would come down, he told her that we miss her and both want to see her, gave him a MAYBE that BOTH of us could come down but this would have to be discussed at another time.

There's your update! Hope last week was good and the coming will be better!

JMT

Congrats on school! That is an achievement given what you're dealing with in addition to this whole new venue for your life...

Great focus skills, J...you've got three weeks left in school? Then what?

And big kudos to Ty, too...brave boy. Respectful, too. To himself and his mother.

What do you want to do about contacting WW? About your stuff (which is a control point...something she reached for to MAKE you do something...though I don't know if it was call back, acknowledge her existence...or what)?

And why are you believing her, btw?

If you're in Plan A, return her calls. I think you have your priorities straight...not calling her back right then isn't the issue...not calling her back when you had your charger in use might be.

Know your own intent...your own truth...then you'll know what you are doing and why...being lied to doesn't have to bite your butt...if you choose what you believe and what you don't.

Thank you for updating...you're in many prayers and thoughts, both you and Ty...

LA

LA,
I think that calling once or twice a week is the right way to go... She kept mentioning when I was calling more often that I was smothering her, trying too hard, etc...
I think she was retreating as a result. The old push-pull thing... and at the same time I am finding my strength inside of myself instead of drawing it from somewhere or something else. I have no intention of going Plan B anytime soon, and I live to hear her voice even twice a week. I didn't find the charger till Wednesday night and retrieved her message, phone was off until that point. I hoped that she wouldn't trash my stuff, but under the circumstances I couldn't take it for granted that she wouldn't. She surely did get my attention though...

Ty and I are going to find a nice "WE MISS YOU" card tomorrow to send to her. Four weeks of road and range training then off to company orientation with whatever company I decide to go with, I have submitted 10 apps and have my fingers crossed! Intend to offer WW a week with Ty and I before I go if she wishes... Hope she will think about it. Thanks again for your thoughts and prayers..


JMT

Well done on the exam - just popped out of lurking to say that.

Glad to see you and Ty are still with the program, kudos to you, I know it was hard at first to set things striaght, but look how far you have come. *smile*

Linda

SP,
Thank you, and it is a pleasure hearing from you again! Hope all is well with you and yours... have a great week!


JMT

LA/SP,

Great school week, bad WW week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Recieved custody papers Tuesday, WW called to say that they are just now arriving from the original filing date in April and she had nothing to do with it. Ofcourse, when I asked if she would withdraw the petition, the answer was no. "You are keeping him from me, I will do what I have to do to see my son." Anything, that is, but allow us both to visit. Also told me that she filed for D which I found to be untrue, although its getting to the point where I don't care what she does anymore.

I'm tired of the hostility, lies, anger, etc... It doesn't affect me as much as it once did, but I am just tired of it. I feel like I'm ******* into the wind trying to stay in contact in the hope that she may change, all I hear is, "We will NEVER be together as a family again, we have seperate lives now and we should continue to live seperate lives."

WW said that we need to stay in contact to coordinate Ty's visits. etc... and that we should be friends. I responded, "I am your husband and will not be reduced to a friend, we will not always have a relationship simply because we have a child if we are divorced."

Don't think I can Plan A anymore guys...I WANT to, but how can I when all of this is going on? Should I act as though this isn't affecting me at all? I believe that her claim of filing for D was intended to upset me and hinder my schooling... what a sweetheart... told Ty she filed as well... either that or she WANTS me to give up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

On a happier note, am doing incredibly well in school... the toughest instructor (a former drill sergeant) says that I am a natural... I have really impressed him and he said that is no small accomplishment!

What to do?

JMT

Custody papers due to legal separation? How do you get custody papers without filing for LS or D?

I'm ignorant...that's me asking for an explanation, not challenging validity.

How you answer those papers matters, doesn't it? I'm sure they tell her side, and then you state your response...and then a hearing, correct?

Okay, so I'm not sure...tell me, please...how this works.

What if you were doing all this while YOU change? Would that be **** in the wind? (I know, not enough letters, but we are thinking Jim Croce lyrics, right?)

She can state her truth, her perspective that you all will never be a family again...and you KNOW your half is to not believe that. Because you're in reality, not an A...you don't know the future...won't ever know...only the present, correct?

I see you choosing to slip into that hopeless state of mind maybe using her words, her stuff, as an aid to get you to stop caring...which smacks of self-deception to me...we choose to love, correct? The more you know that consciously, and choose to act, consciously, the less you can self-deceive...use others' words and actions to react to instead of choosing your own actions...

Well, this was very true for me. Might not for you, JMT.

Did you congratulate yourelf before your instructor did? Are you doing that self-care...admiration, appreciation, acceptance?

How's Ty? Is he going to start school in the town you're in, or after you've finished your school, are you moving back into WW's town and he'll go to school there?

Thank you for continuing to post...please 'splain this stuff to me...'k?

LA

In many states they suggest sorting out custody before the divorce. Been there done that with quite a few I have helped here. (IN) This settles the kids into a routine and if the divorce does or doesn't happen they are at least not dragged through hedges and fought over regardign visitation for months/years. Here if they are 14years or judges interview, persuades him they are mature enough to choose (usually 12) then they get to choose who to be with and when to see them.

Family courts look at the kids life not the parents' convenience.

Linda

When your love is beginning to erode, that is when you plan B. So look at writing the letter and think about when to send it. After the custody hearing might be better for cyustody reasons. The courts don't use MB principles.

Here is my Plan B letter guide ....

10 steps to a plan B letter

1.State that the WS actions with OP are have eroded your loving feelings for them and your number one priority is to protect the loving feelings you have for spouse. In order to do this you must separate yourself from their presence and contact so their actions cease to diminish your love for them.

2.State of intention to stay married to spouse.

3. Acknowledge own shortcomings in creating the marriage rift. (generally but factually)

4. State intention to keep children in original happy "two parent" marriage

5 State intention to work with spouse to rebuild marriage better than it was before, to create a situation for both of you, so happy you will be completely fulfilled in the marriage.

6 State - separation. no personal contact for any reason - names of intermediaries of choice - if children in family - how to hand over children for visit through intermediary - financial - separation unless it is for children's needs. (sometimes you cannot keep them with you and have to pay support).

7. State intention to separate financial accounts if there are no children.

8. State conditions for rebuilding. NC with OP and NC letter to OP. Include job change, moving away, limiting (moderating) FOO contact and changing social circles if one or all of these is the only way to NC. Acknowledge that this will be hard for them and state your willingness to do anything to make this possible and to support them through the changes necessary.

9. No other way to see or talk to you. Do not make exceptions to the boundaries - (common sense - in life or death situations, they, intermediary or doctor would automatically contact you and separation would be put on hold)

10. Reiterate love for spouse and intention to be married to them for the rest of your lives.


Linda

LA/SP,

Talked to WW today and asked if she would rather work this stuff out out of court, replied that she would. Getting her to have the petition withdrawn will show whether or not she means it. Yes LA, that's the way it works. I don't know how to work it out if Ty doesn't want to go down there though...

Don't want to Plan B, but it doesn't seem like Plan A is working... The calmer I am, the madder she gets and searches for things to throw at me. The more I mention the boundaries, the more she digs in and fights back... thus the custody papers... I will do anything, ANYTHING, to reunite our family but if Plan A isn't working what do I do? Should I just agree with everything that she says? Take away the points of contention? Tell her that I would like them to buy me out of the house so that I can purchase my own? Sat down and cried for the first time in a long time today AFTER the phone call... hearing her voice just brings it all back... not the hurt, but the love. It is so hard knowing that how I feel does not matter to her.

Told her that Ty and I would still come down before he starts school and I start new job. WW asked what company I had chosen to drive for, and I said that every time I volunteered information about my life I had come to regret it... (the well-timed custody papers and divorce lie...) so I stopped telling her about my everyday adventures. I suppose I should look at it from the angle that it is the first time since we separated that she has asked about me or what I was doing.

JMT

LA,

Ty is starting 6th grade up here in September. This is our home, Ty says that the only reason he will go to Delaware is to visit. He keeps saying, "Maybe Mommy will come up here..."

JMT

child support and custody law from all over the states


this might help you sort things out. You may already have been there.

Linda

JM,

"WW asked what company I had chosen to drive for, and I said that every time I volunteered information about my life I had come to regret it..."

Truth check. Does this mean, based on her response, you are choosing to not disclose? Or is it based on you no longer sharing a life, a marriage...?

I ask because it sounds tiny, incidental...and I think it's really important. Plan A is not agreeing with, sharing everything...it is you being authentically you, knowing your standards and boundaries...and bringing reality.

Now...tell me about the custody papers...what they mean...because I'm ignorant and I don't want to be, 'k?

And your new job...not the specifics...just the stuff I always ask of you...what you're thinking, feeling and believing...and...

Thank you for sharing that her voice brings back your love...because you believe in that voice...not what it's saying...maybe coming to know the difference...the fog as real...because the voice is your W's voice...and the words and actions are the WW's words and actions...

LA

LA,
Graduated a week early with a 99% GPA, only 3 students in the last 5 years have accomplished this! I am so happy and proud! As a result I now have a week to spend with Ty... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am choosing not to disclose because I do not want her to interfere with my job as she has attempted to do with my schooling. Also, in the event of an eventual divorce, which I will not file for, her attorney will not have to find this out on his own, saving her money.

As far as the custody papers go, MY truth is that she is going to use the Family Court to force Ty to spend time with her although he does not want to. WW told Ty after he said he didn't want to come down, "I will do whatever it takes to get you down here." In a subsequent conversation I told WW that I do not have a problem with her spending time with him, however, because of the temporary injunction in the custody petition preventing his removal from the state once he goes there, he will not, under any circumstances, be going to Delaware. I also told her that there will be a restraining order preventing contact with OM and his child when Ty is there. She is continuing to believe that I am keeping him from her instead of her choices and actions, and she is, "Tired of hearing the same old ****," concerning the subject.

I am so excited about the job! I begin company training on the 14th. This is something I have always dreamed of doing, and while the pay is excellent, I will be sacrificing time at home. Ty and I have discussed this and are planning to install a webcam in the truck and communicate via internet as well as by phone. I will be home 46 out of 52 weekends and could be through the house weekly depending on what is available. My folks, who are retired, will be caring for Ty while I am away.

She is still DEEP in the fog... sometimes she peeks out and we have great conversations, then just as quickly the anger, lies, and obvious loose grip on the reality of the situation that she has created come right back...


JMT

Thank you, JM!

Here's a silly question from me...why doesn't she visit Ty where you are? Supervised? Are you still keeping a journal of invitations, negotiations and conversations?

Congratulations on your accomplishments. I understand about the discretion in not disclosing details...can you take him with you on breaks and vacations?

In your conversations...when she peeks out, Plan A her...when she quickly goes back into the fog, Plan B her...like Orchid says.

Time is on your side, I believe...because OM has to meet all her needs...and offering all the great memories of you guys together, slipped into conversations, won't meet her needs in the present.

LA

LA,

Funny you mentioned that, I invited her to come to Pa. this week so we could spend time together... She was with OM and wants to discuss it tomorrow.

I will take advantage of any opportunity to spend time with Ty... I think you know this... and he is as excited as I am about the job, even considering the sacrifices we will have to make.

That is what I have been doing... when I'm talking to HER I let her know how much she is loved, missed, forgiven, and appreciated. When the WW appears it is a polite gotta go...

They haven't paid a mortgage payment since June 28 and she was obviously angry on the phone today because OM didn't take her to the beach this weekend as planned... I can't imagine her being happy and understand her resentment (I got a less than sincere congratulations from her on graduating early with much success... I have learned not to take these things personally...) that my life is just fine without her, but I so long to hold her, to brush her hair away and touch her cheek to mine, to look in her eyes and have her understand how I feel without having to tell her...
Still hoping...

JMT

Good to know, JMT!

Now, tell me why you know of anything having to do with OM? Make that a boundary. You love talking to your W and will not stay on the line...no gotta go...just click...if he's mentioned in anyway.

Why not?

He's not your family, not part of your life...he's a fantasy. Treat him as such.

And on the forgiven...uhm, want to reconsider that? You are sure you will forgive her when she stops doing that which requires forgiveness...not before, and not before she recommits to the marriage. Silly to forgive too soon...in fact, there's a book about that.

Other than that one part...way to go!!

You're not still hoping...you're still fighting. What, legally, have you done to protect you from having the mortgage on your credit report if she defaults? Isn't there some legal protective thingie to put into place with the mortgage company?

Thank you for posting...I know you will...even from the road.

LA

LA,

A couple of good points, thanks... will heed your advice. Nothing I can do about the mortgage other than sign the house over to her, which is not going to happen. Will post after talking to her today.

Ty and I are going fishing, so grateful to have this week with him.

JMT

Hi,

I have been reading along and think you are doing well.

She cannot have you sign the house over unless she can buy you out and even at zero equity, she will still have to show enough personally earned income for at least two years and a good credit score for that to happen. Don't know the sitch, but BF income doesn't count, neither does room mate or any other thing she may come up with.

So keep us informed - and have a great W/E.

Linda

Hey all!
Have been very busy with the new job, no laptop yet, so no update from the road... Here's the latest...

Made a trip to De.(announced) to find most of my personal belongings destroyed or thrown out, locks changed on the house, and threatened with the police being called upon me voicing my displeasure.

Composed and sent a beautiful Plan B lettter ( thanks for the help SP...)and have had no contact since, even though the phone continues to ring at least once daily. I was once very afraid to go to Plan B, but I was surprised how easy making the decision was once I had reached the point where I felt that it was necessary. Am equally surprised how easily I am finding the strength to stay very, very dark in spite of WW's continued, if not intensified, efforts to continue contact...

Anyhow, thanks for your continued advice and support...


JMT

Thanks for the update, JMT

How's Ty? What does he think of school? What does he think of Plan B? Who did you pick as your intermediary for communication, to funnel contact through, for Ty seeing her?

I support your Plan B...would like to know what you made as the way back to you and your marriage...'cuz inquiring minds gotta know.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Isn't this a house you have an interest in? Like a mortgage or somethinge? Maybe I am wrong. But if so you can do some more plan B things to bring her to the consequences of her actions. You can also take her to small claims court for the cost of your destroyed possessions. It is possible.

I would love to see a copy of the letter, but fear if you post it others may critique it and I know how pointless that is after it is sent, and have seen BSs really distressed by this, after doing their best.

My personal belief is that you do not need to give them a plan or time of a way back, but just tell them it is possible if the behaviour that is killing the love stops. But it may not be possible forever.

That is me - all have their own stamp to put on MB. We are not robots.

Linda

LA/SP,

Thanks for your support. Gave WW a way back with no time frame. She knows that I will not wait forever. Stated that her words/actions were whittling away at what little I had left... WW knows that I am moving forward, and by God's grace I HAVE IN LEAPS AND BOUNDS, with her or without her. I learned alot from others' letters and was well prepared to write a good one...Mom and Dad will be intermediaries.

Ty has seen what I have endured, most of the time with dignity and grace, other times when I was not so strong, with anger or tears. He knows that the lengths that I have gone to were above and beyond what most would, as do all of my friends and supporters. I have no regrets other than not being able to get WW to want to change.

He starts school on the 5th of September and is very excited. Still does not talk to WW, but her attempts to make him feel guilty for NC'ing her are beginning to wear him down in spite of my efforts to explain to him that NONE of this is his fault.

Mortgage is still in my name, will cross that bridge when I get to it. I believe that she knows that the chances are slim to none that she will get the house in the event of the D that she says she is looking forward to filing for.

I am at peace with whatever happens. I am happy. I am strong. I am complete. I have my son's love and respect. I AM BLESSED to have the love of my family and friends. They believe in me. I BELIEVE IN ME! Holding on to my fork...


JMT

All,
Not much to report this week... Several unanswered calls from WW. Very angry... threatening messages, etc...

Custody mediation hearing postponed till October 25, " I will see my son no matter what it takes, I don't care if it is by a court order." WW would rather force Ty to spend time with her on her terms rather than have him willingly do so on his, ( no OM and OM's son ) the degree of selfishness that WW is displaying is quite astonishing.

Ty is really doing well and enjoying school, up early and ready to go... call him every morning and evening from the road.

Till next weekend... God bless all!

JMT

Stick to your guns, it is highly likely that the court will agree with him and tell her that Ty's wishes should be respected. They are usually all about the kids.

Well done on the job, I haven't posted much but read a lot right now.

Linda

Keep those threatening messages for court, 'k?

How are ya now? When are you gonna get that internet access in your truck?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

LA

LA,
Mortgage company called, they are going to forclose unless I help WW by paying $ towards mortgage... WW has left several desperate messages asking for help. Did it once already, won't do it again. I refuse to finance the A even if it hurts me temporarily credit wise... plus not having a stable home environment will not help her at the upcoming custody mediation! Looking at laptops now for the truck...

JMT

I'm wondering about you, JMT. I didn't know what to say to your last post. I believe you're right about financing the affair. I'm sorry for your credit and let myself go into the future and worry about your credit.

How did the custody mediation go? How's work? Have you got the laptop yet?

Thinking of you both,

LA

JMT, I just read your story. I must commend you, you sound like you are doing really well considering. I was concerned she would do something drastic to get custody of ya'lls son. Technically, you can't keep him from her. I don't agree with it, but it's the truth.

Her selfishness astounds me too. Let's see here:

She wants you to pay the mortgage on a house she kicked you out of to move her OM and his son into.

She wants your son to visit her in presence of OM and son when it makes him extremely uncomfortable to think of doing so. She has no clue how much her replacing you and him like that has hurt him, no freaking clue.

She files false reports of you abusing her.

I'm sure there's more I'm missing, like what she's done, or not done to the house and your belongs.

I see you haven't posted in a while. Congrats on your new job, it must be keeping you busy.

I hope and pray all is well in your life and your son's. You guys deserve happiness.

This is important. I notice that you frequently paraphrase what your wife has said, but do so by turning it into an attack. In the example above, she was clearly NOT trying to convey that she feels it is unfair that her affair has divided your family. By deliberately twisting her words, you are alienating her further. Do you see this? If you look back on your posts here, I think you will see that you do this OFTEN.

What do you think she was REALLY trying to convey to you? Perhaps that it hurts her to not see her son? Perhaps that she wants to feel that you are willing to be fair with her?

The way you mis-paraphrase her is definitely unfair and unjust, and unlikely to do anything but hurt and distance her further. If that is your goal, then no need to change it. But if you want to heal whatever it is that has caused her to distance from you in the first place, you will have to start focusing on what she needs that she is not getting from you. Understanding and fairness might be a good place to start.

If I had said, "That will not happen and I will spend time with Ty no matter what it takes. It is not fair that you are keeping him from me," you might have responded something like this:

"Honey, I do understand that you love Ty and need to see him. I promise you that I'll help with that, but it hurts me to think that you might take him from me. Can we arrange for you to see him with me there, too?"

Does it sound too passive? Does it sound like you wouldn't be sticking up for yourself? Because your goal right now needs to be to be there for her, NOT to try to protect yourself, not to try to win.

I am sorry about your WW and what she is doing. The one thing that is very upsetting is that BOTH of you are exposing your CHILD to this mess and if he is still living in the house, he is NOT OLD ENOUGH to handle your grown up problems.

Neither you nor your wife should be asking him to take sides. You have NO RIGHT to take your son so far away that his mother has no access to him. Yes, your WW is being an idiot, but your son needs to have BOTH his parents in his life. Your wife is screwing up big time, but don't make Ty pay the price. If she wants to see him, she should see him even if your son says he doesn't want to go. (Trust me, he wants to see his mom even if he says he doesn't.) It is your job as a good parent to encourage his relationship with his mother because that is what is best for him. Go to www.healthyparent.com for more info on this.

If you try to alienate your son from his mother (by complaining about what she's doing, crying about your situation in front of him, acting like the victim, etc.), you will scar him more than you know. Your son may feel guilty about wanting to see his mother because he knows she hurt you. You need to be the grown up here and show him in both words and actions that you WANT him to have a relationship with his mother. What your WW is doing is not right, but NOBODY has a right to disrupt the parent-child relationship for any reason except in situations of abuse.

This means that you are going to have to be the bigger person. This means you are going to have to set aside your pain and heartache so that you can do what is best for your son. This means that you will have to talk to other GROWNUPS (not your son)about what is going on with your WW. Your job has to be to protect this innocent child from what is happening. Your job is NOT to get Ty to be on your side.

Again, I am not excusing your WW for her horrible behavior. But someone needs to protect your son. I hope it will be you.