Very sad update. H had ONS was back in Aug. with a prostitute. He admitted it immediately. We both went for STD tests at the Heath Dept. The ones they provide have all come back neg., but still awaiting the HIV second window period test that will be at the end of Dec.

A few days ago, my H said he had a referral to see a dermatologist for a "mole." I said, "a mole? Where?"
He said, "by my underwear." I didn't think anything of it until I visited the Heath Dept to get my first result of HIV back the next day. I told the clinician that my H says he has a mole by his underwear...she says are you sure it's not a genital wart? I asked her what is that. She told me.

Later that night I walked in the room as my H was getting ready for bed, I asked him if I could see the mole he was talking about. He showed me. It looked like a wart by his penis, near his groin. Then I asked if he had anything on his penis. He said, yes, and showed me. Notice... now one..went to two. I FREAKED OUT!!
I told him "those look like warts." He said, that is what he thought, but he said the HD told him in Sept they were not. (I'm sure they didn't know at that point, if he did ask???, as they were probably just starting, not identifiable). Notice...he didn't mention anything to me about this until now, almost 4 months later!! Maybe he really knew but wasn't telling me. I couldn't sleep I was so angry, while he still insisted they were moles or old age marks, that his Dr. told him that. I was up on the internet searching for pictures and all info I could. He would say things like "I hope it's not cancerous." I was boiling inside!!!

The next morning I was making calls to clinics and Dr's everywhere. We were told to come in together at our Dr's office as walkins. We did. I was fuming, crying, because I knew. The PA took one look and with in 10 seconds said those were warts! He also found another one. He diagnosed him with them, which means he not only has them but also HPV, for the rest of his life. HPV is what causes the warts. He will still see a dermatologist in a week. And from what I read, it can be terrible to have warts removed if they don't go away with medicine. And if they go away, he still carries the HPV forever. Generally once exposed to someone with HPV, it takes 3-4 months for any significant symptons such as warts. Not all get warts. It's been almost 4 months. He diagnosed me with HPV exposure.

I had never heard of HPV, and genital warts until now.
And it is not something that Dr's or clinic test for regularly like the other tests. This test has to be requested.

OMG, when I think of this, and the pictures I have seen of women with it, and what that prositute probably looked like, it makes me sick. Condoms can't even protect people from that virus, because it is caught by skin to skin contact of only the genital areas, not semen.

Now to... what am I gonna do. I was sexually abstinent from him from July on because of my female problems, prolapsed fibroid, which is why I think he got frustrated and went to the prostitute in Aug. Stupid, stupid stupid!!!! Then after that I remained abstinent with him, awaiting HIV and others STD tests, until one time Nov. 1st I slipped with him that one time. So...now I am scared!! I have had multiple internal exams preparing me for surgery at the end of Dec. and my Dr. has never mentioned seeing any lumps, bumps, warts or anything. But I am going to see him next Tuesday to talk to him about this.

Lemonman is a big advocate of STD testing immediately following infidelity....he is so right. It might be hard going without SF for 3-4 months (of which it takes the longest for HIV tests). And remember even a condom will not protect from everything. Many people carry HPV, and do not know it, unless warts show up.

Yesterday H was still very much in denial, today he is in shock..

I am in shock, so hurt and angry. Now what....??



Lady

OK sheep.......lets step back and take a breather. Your fears, anxieties and anger are ALL justified. Knowledge is power, so now you at least know. Have a good cry, punch a wall, yell in a quiet room. DO that, and let it out. Then, be rational and realize what you are dealing with here. You or your WH are NOT gonna die from this.

Now, HPV is a very common STD and many of US (even me possibly, who knows) may have it. The warts are generally harmless, and surgical extraction is rarely needed. There are topical creams that can help combat the lesions. It may be difficult for yourself to be tested for this with lesions that are not visible on your external genitalia. There are HPV serology DNA studies that can be done, but are NOT commonly done and are expensive. The key for you (if you have it, which is only a "fear" now anyways) is to have annual pap smears, as there are some HPV strains that are strongly linked with cervical cancer.

I don't have the ansers for what you need to do with your WH regarding Sex in the future. Noone here (even the emminent Willard F. Harley, PHd) has the answers to that.

I would beg you to NOT scour the internet for "pictures", etc..as all this will do is illicit more fear for you. Go see a Dr as you have planned, finish your HIV testing, and then arm yourself with professional guidance and opinion on tramission of this and consequences of that.

I don't want to ever be a guy who says "I told you so", but there have been people here who dismiss my rantings of STD testing with "be careful" or use "precautuions"....and this is a prime example why that advice is frought with error.

I may cough up the $185.00 to Willard Harley to confront him of why this exact issue is NOT discussed at least in some way on this site. The money would be well spent. I am quite sickened that this issue remains NOT addressed for people here. If one is gonna advocate meeting "needs" (including SF in "high risk" situations), then they better be given all of the facts also.

LS, I am sorry for this turn of events, I am truly sick for you.

You'll be ok. Please understand what this is, and that this is by no means a death sentence for your WH and that the sequale of all of this is likely to be more "emotional" than "physical".

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

OK sheep.......lets step back and take a breather. Your fears, anxieties and anger are ALL justified. Knowledge is power, so now you at least know. Have a good cry, punch a wall, yell in a quiet room. DO that, and let it out. Then, be rational and realize what you are dealing with here. You or your WH are NOT gonna die from this.
Thanks LM for your comfort and understanding...What you say is true. I already did all the yelling, screaming, ranting and raving all over the house. When the PA told us "the truth", my ranting stopped. Now I am just so worried, and somewhat quietly angry. I have so many questions and fears now. H is totally quiet about it waiting to see the derm. I think he thinks the dermatologist is going to tell him different.

I don't have the ansers for what you need to do with your WH regarding Sex in the future. Noone here (even the emminent Willard F. Harley, PHd) has the answers to that.
Well the only answer I can come up with is to be celibate.
And that doesn't bother me, but it may bother my H.
If I don't have it...Would he expect, me to risk
getting it all for my marriage?....I couldn't so my answer to that is "no way". Really...it seems there is no protection available for HPV. But these are questions I will bring up with my Dr.

But...one miracle healing took place 2 years ago for my H. He had Hep C. He got it from using drugs with a needle many many years ago. 2 yrs ago his Dr. had him take the Pegintron (which is a yr long of treatments with pills and weekly injections) to see if that would rid him of the virus (only 50% of patients it works for, but he took the chance). He couldn't handle the medicine past 6 weeks, his kidneys began to fail, and his mental health went down hill fast because of it. He had to go off of it. I began to give him Pau D' Arco tea (which is an herb-actually it is tree bark) and has healed many from cancer and viruses, and used quite often in South America. He began to get his viral load tested every 3 months. After a while of Pau D' Arco, he got tested. All of his liver tests, and viral load came back normal. (He had not had a normal viral load or liver in 20 yrs)! He no longer had the virus. He continued tests every 3 months. all coming back normal. All his Dr's were amazed, they had never seen anyone healed of Hep C. I don't know if the Pau D' Arco did it or God. But I think God had a big hand in it.

But now...I think God means it, when he says "go and sin no more" lest something worse come upon you. WH has a big consequence here, the one consequence I feared the most, an STD.

Lady

Lemonman -

I'll pay half if you do talk to SH. You know that I try to encourage folks here to save their marriages. And you know of the member here whose WW died of AIDS (by the way, he is still testing negative). She was a health care worker.

Many of us are so busy trying to bring our WS's back, that we don't think about STD's. My main criticism of the MB program is that there is little mention of avoiding STD's. Plan A and meeting needs is fine. But SOMEWHERE it must be stressed that there is a risk to the BS's health.

For some unfathomable reason, most WS's do not practice safe sex. And even if they do use a condom, diseases can be passed.

Ladysheep - I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

Well, lady, I am not gonna "touch" this one, as I am at the very least "skeptical" of this Herb or any herb or "tree bark" and it's ability to "cure" viruses and cancer. Show me one randomized controlled study showing it's efficacy and I will gladly swallow a pot full of crow....but I digress. My point is NOT to discount your "belief" in herbs.

I do concur that miracles do happen in life and certainly in medicine, but I would surmise that your husbands absence of viral Hepatitis C DNA--actually the correct term is Viral RNA (also now considered by some as an STD) was not in any way, shape, or form related to the "tree bark". I have to be honest with you, and even question the true absence of the virus that he has had for 25 years. I assume that he had a liver biopsy that showed the absence of any Hep C virus. You can't claim "a disease free state" based on serolgies or liver transaminases alone. I am not questioning your belief of the situation.

I am not a great "believer" in alternative therapies to tell you the truth. They have their place in medicine, but certainly ONLY as an adjunct and as "placebo" salvage therapy.

When I was a surgical intern I admitted this 44 year old mother of three to the surgical oncology service one wintery Feb night. She came in because of severe "breast pain" that she could no longer tolerate. She had a "mass" growing on her left breast that had grown to the size of a small basketball. It was fungating and foul smelling, and when I removed the bandages to see the mass, a RN assisting me vomited on the spot. The entire ER smelled of essetially dead flesh. I cannot imagine the severe pain that she tolerated with this, for God knows how long. This was probably a treatable cancerous lesion, but the patient along with her "doctor" decided on a course of "shark cartilage" to treat the "mass". Her husband told me "You Doctors inject that poison that kills people", "my wife and I believe this (the shark cartilage) will work and cure her".

Her three children (ages 4, 7, and 9 were asleep in the room on chairs while he told me this).....I stared off in utter amazement.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Did he really tell me this? Does he really believe this?

She died three days later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I guess that left an indelible impression on me. It no doubt left me with prejudices.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ewwwww.fungating breast carcinoma. dealt with that. You literally have to clean the air in the room before seeing anybody else. I used to do all the prechemo workups for GA cancer...did a certain procedure for them. One day had a woman in severe denial of her malignancy...knew it when she walked in what it was. She was a well dressed woman in her seventi4es...her sis had died of breast ca. sHe did not want to have it either..but she did...and she ignored it for about 3 years...3 years too long. She died shortly after initiation of chemo...her ef had been comprosmised a little...(can you tell I've had 2 margaritas???they were lovely!)


I think you either have the varmint virus or you don't. You don't have miracle cures of else the whole world would be screaming for it...and this good doc, Mr. Lemonsweetie, and myself, a professional, not a doc...but very very qualified, would say that we'd give that darn cure up in a heartbeat if we could....if it existed.

Nobody wants an std...trust me, walked that route. I was TERRIFIED OF THAT! Went to my old obgyn...a friend of mine. Just walked into his back office in his large practice. I had no appointment. I just walked back there and shut his door (in his own office)...he saw me walk back and came back there inbetween his patients. I was sobbing and asking him to test me for everything known to mankind...he began swearing...at my soon to be xh...said that my xh wasted the best girl...and that's when my own ob said that he'd remarried since I saw him...that had I just been single a year earlier...well that was another story. He brought all the stuff into his office. I let him draw my blood. It was freaky. I really thought I had something...that darth ahd given me something. But I was CLEAN!...so clean it was amazing!

I went back 6 mos. later for Dr. C to test me again. Negatory. I was so relieved!

There is no magic bullet. There is no cure. At least not one documented thru medical testing to cure any std...any biggie one that is.

Best thing to stop an std.....having a stuuuupid WS wrap it up if they are a male, or just not do it if they're a girl.

That's bout it.

I may cough up the $185.00 to Willard Harley to confront him of why this exact issue is NOT discussed at least in some way on this site. The money would be well spent. I am quite sickened that this issue remains NOT addressed for people here. If one is gonna advocate meeting "needs" (including SF in "high risk" situations), then they better be given all of the facts also.

I fully agree LM. It needs to be done!!

Well, lady, I am not gonna "touch" this one, as I am at the very least "skeptical" of this Herb or and hern or "tree bark" and it's ability to cure viruses and cancer.Show me one randomized controlled study showing it's efficacy and I will gladly swallow a pot full of crow....but I digress.

I know, I believe "some" herbs have the potential to heal people, and if anything keep people healthier. Everything God created is good, He said that from the beginning. Some of man's medicine can do good too, you and I both know that.

I have to be honest with you, and even question the true absence of the virus that he has had for 25 years. But that maybe just cause I am a skeptic of these claims, and am not questioning your belief of the situation.

He is truly healed LM. No sign of Hep C going on 2 yrs now.
NONE!! Don't know if God did the healing or the Pau D' Arco. BUT HE IS HEALED!!! DR'S ARE STILL AMAZED AND SO ARE WE!!


She had a "mass" growing on her left breast that had grown to the size of a small basketball. It was fungating and foul smelling, and when I removed the bandages to see the mass, a RN assisting me vomited on the spot. The entire ER smelled of essetially dead flesh. I cannot imagine the severe pain that she tolerated with this, for God knows how long. This was probably a treatable cancerous lesion, but the patient along with her "doctor" decided on a course of "shark cartilage" to treat the "mass". Her husband told me "You Doctors inject that poison that kills people", my wife and I believe this (the shark cartilage) will work and "cure" her.

Shark Cartilage????!!! Well that is ridiculous!!!!

My mother died of Breast Cancer so I know what you are saying. I have yet to see a person healed of cancer by Chemo and radiation. It only prolongs life for a short while if anything, only helpful but not curing.

Lady

LM:

I am not wanting to rehash my thoughts on this...

You already know that I feel like I did what I had to do in MY SITUATION...

However, I have for a long time wanted to know how you or others would answer this question..

I am dead serious about this...

I will use myself as an example...

Let's just say that it had not worked out between my H and myself and I am now single. Let's just say that I have a high sex drive (wild woman that I am at age 51). I have never had sex with anyone else except my H...Yes, really...


How would I go about having sex and being safe? Would I have all potential partners tested OR do without?....

Really, just wondering about this....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

As a single girl...I asked my bf a few months back to "give blood"..to help hurricane victims...also wanted him to show me the paperwork sent back from the red cross...in case I wanted...well..you know the rest ...

years ago, when I was single . long before darth, we all came up with this issue...it was hard to deal with. what with all the diseases out there.

so we devised a way to find out if our partners were safe...and yes, we would all practice safe sex...(I only had 2 bf's from college...was darn safe...so I was not really one who was worried back then... neiother am now)...

our way was to ask our sig others to give blood to whatever national disaster/international disaster...and ask them to see the results. we'd also volunteer to give ours...and show them the results.

Btw...if you are 'opted out" by the red cross or a donation agency, there is a reason. If your blood is denied, they will show you why...send you a "dear john or jane" letter so to speak.

That is how we found out about our partners...how my friends (nurses, specialists, and docs) did it. It worked great. And how I found out about the status of my now questionable if he is anymore, bf.

But he's safe. Too bad. But what can I say? The convent has been good to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Peachy:

Still hypothetical for me since I've not been in that situation BUT...

Isn't that a bad way to start a new relationship..by being DISHONEST...

I don't think I would be interested in just CASUAL SEX...

I would want to develop some sort of a R with the person first...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

To the poster who does NOT know of a woman cured by traditional medicine...

I see TONS OF THEM! Sure do. I do specific testing to rule it out...metastasis...and I k now and see the results of early detection and good medicine. And yes, good docs and specialits like myself tell them to eat well, eat healthy, treat themselves well and fight back thru health! That means high fiber, low fat, lots of veggies and fruits along with medicine.

I have for sure seen women cured of it. I also work and help find as well as map sentinel nodes for patients. Mapped 2 yesterday before surgery to remove their melanoma.

Cancer can be cured. But it takes early detection...and following of medicine's path and I think an even better outcome is when doc's orders are followed combined with the healthiest of diets...some docs I work with even send their patients to nutritionalists...to devise a cancer fighting diet for them.

Do not discount medicine. Please do not.

Not dishonest...not at all.

I personally do give blood. When I can it is usually for some disaster. I only ask somebody to do something I find acceptable btw...and why my friends did the same. Why they devised such an idea. Not anything we would not do.

It is a way to find out.

And yes, we believe in honesty. However, we have a girlfriend...she was in fact a bridesmaid of mine, who BELIEVED IN THIS KIND OF BLIND HONESTY...WAS ENGAGED...AND ENDED UP DESPITE THE RADICAL HONESTY WITH HERPES...nasty case of it. From x fiancee. Who'd have thought it?

Not my friend never! But she has it. Had several serious outbreaks in the last five years . Costed her 2 other bf's and she was completely honest with them.

We can expect others to be honest as we are. And we hope they are. But our lives are here on the line. Alot is at stake. And now I see the price much higher since it is no longer "just me" anymore. I have a little fella who depends on me to do things wisely. He has one decnet parent ok?

If I am going to play, then I'd be best willing to play...and be totally up front. When I asked my stb bf this, I said "hey D. I am thinking of donating some blood to the hurricane fund. What do you think of it?" He said it was good. I said he should too. First I gave. i showed him my report after I got it back saying thanks for my donation (I am ok)...said to him..."well, that is great. Not only am I safe, but it's being put to good use."
He donated next. And he's safe too.

A very politically correct way to get the message out...if you're gonna ever consider being with me...show me you're willing to give...and also let me know you're clean in the process~!

Nothing wrong about it. If bf asked me, I'd tell him. I am always honest. But after what I've seen and lived th ru, I take my health quite seriously.

Same principal as me wearing gloves...I imply by my wearing them on my patients that I treat all my patients AS IF THEY HAD AN STD...

and for the patients who are contagious, they WEAR A MASK OR ARE IN SOME SORT OF ISOLATION..

but unfortunately there are walking time bombs out there...not practicing safe sex, whtether married or single...and they're bringing home things that can kill you.

Many yet to be diagnosed.

And they're out there. You could be dating one. Or married to one. IF you have .0000001 percent of worry, that is too much to me.

As for me, I had myself and darth 's blood drawn and tested before our marriage. We got a pre marriage checkup. That way I knew it was ok to go "naked" if I wanted to...and when we chose to propegate, there was no worries. And after I found out about affair no. 1, I was off to be tested...and DEMANDED DARTH BE TESTED IMMEDIATELY...I sent OW even a letter demanding HER to get tested as I thought her sleazy. Had it written on my attorney's letterhead.

Maybe I set some legal precedence? I think it should be lawful for a BS to demand both the WS and the OP to get tested if the WS is stuuuuupid enough to sleep with more than 1 person.

Mimi:

Your question actually is extremley valid, and an even greater advocacy for remaining in a monogamous marriage or relationship. There is no TRUE answer for everyone. The only way to BE SURE 100% of never contracting an STD is to NOT HAVE SEX.

Surely NOOONE here is advocating that.

In life there are risks, and each of us has to take calculated risks based on things we do. FOR ME, I would probably insist on STD testing befor having unprotected or protected Sex with someone. Even doing this, may not absolve me of risk. I can "live" with the remaining risk. I would rather do "without" before subjecting myself to risk of high risk sex or sex with someone I don't completely trust or know. Is this extreme...perhaps, but it is my body and my life. For others that may not be the case, and they are more "trusting". If you are going to have sex with someone now days, you have to be able to essentially trust them with your life...

In your question, a "high sex drive" would be fine, but I assume that you are NOT talking about indiscriminate sex or promiscous sex, so in reality, your "high" need for Sex wouldn't really mattter would it? A "high" need for sex is different than "promiscous" sex. I have a "high" need for sex.....it sucks not being able to fulfill that "need" when I want. It is a "choice" I make.

I am not advocating shotgun testing for "anything under the sun" on any of my potential partners. If I am gonna have sex with someone, you can be sure it will be within the scope of a trusting and emotional relationship. What more can you do besides this? There will always be some risk, but THIS IS SURELEY A HEL* OF ALOT DIFFERENT THAN HAVING SEX WITH A SPOUSE WHO HAS ACTIVELY PRACTICED UNSAFE SEX WITH A PARTNER of QUESTIONAVBLE NATURE in the hope of meeting their emotional "need" for Sex. I don't give a flying f*** how many marriages one saves, that is pure and unadulterated BS.

What you are asking is on a completely different scale from what I rant about here alot. I know that you and I have disagreed on this before, and I want you to know, that in the end, I do "respect" YOUR RIGHT to do what you want with your body. You understood the risks and were more than willing to suffer any consequences from this. While we don't agree about this, that doesn't mean that I don't respect your right to do this. I am afraid "others" in the thick of things aren't as clear as you were to the risks. It is those people that I hope to "De-fog".

To answer your question.....The only true SAFE SEX is abstinenbce, but that TOO ME is not a reasonable alternative. SO short if that, I use my judgement, and would use testing and condoms in the meantime. For the record, I would rather much be married or in a monomagous and trusting realtionship than be "single". Many colleagues of mine relish the "single" life and the plethora of Sex to be had....I don't feel the same. I yearn to be back in the "saddle" again...LOL.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Peachy -

In school I worked for the bloodbank. Your method of testing for STD's is completely CRAZY. Sorry, but we need a safe blood supply, and donating blood should NOT be the method of testing for STDs.

There are all kinds of STDs that the bloodbank screening won't pick up. That is why donor's are asked not to donate if they have practiced risky sex.

Cancer can be cured. But it takes early detection...and following of medicine's path and I think an even better outcome is when doc's orders are followed combined with the healthiest of diets...some docs I work with even send their patients to nutritionalists...to devise a cancer fighting diet for them.

Do not discount medicine. Please do not.
Peachy, I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm sure some have been cured. I'm just saying I haven't seen one. You and LM are medical professional's, I'm sure you have. I have seen many go into remission, only to have the cancer return at a later time.

I never said I discount medicine. But I don't discount herbs either. Heck... if we didn't have medicine and food in this country, we would look like Africa.

Lady

Some of the richest people in the world live in Africa... and some of the poorest live here...

There's lots of medicine and food in Africa, Lady...

What are you talking about?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

LM:

THANKS for answering my question!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Wow Mimi....I guess I was just talking about the poor parts of Africa.

Even the health of the poor people in America is taken care of if wanted and needed. Not so in the poor parts of Africa.

As of late, as according to my friends who work in Medical Technology, in my hospital blood bank and lab, it is fine! It is more than safe to ask that. My friends medically verified this...

It is also a way to imho, get a potential partner..(serious partner) to understand how serious we are...

We did that...and my bf went a step further. The next month he went to his proc's office and after a "certain" male thing was done to checkup, he had a full workup.

He knew what I was asking for. He complied. He did donate. We all donate.

We donate whenever there is a real need for blood. We do. We do that whether we're single or not. Whatever the case is. But it is a good way to see if somebody is WILLING...WILLING I SAY...to roll up their sleeve and give...or if they have something to hide.

My buddy Vickie, she was so kind and loving. Her fiancee was a good guy. Never in a million years would we have figured he's gonna give an std to her. Never! They were planning their fancy wedding...it crushed her. He did avoid a few things we noticed. He did NOT go thru w/a bloodtest several mos. before the wedding...she found out literally 2mos before the wedding she had an STD...they had been dating 3 years. The previous year, before their engagement, all her blood and female tests at obgyn office came back perfectly. He was only guy she was ever with.

You have to ask your partner to do something or else we're all gonna end up wrapping ourselves up in giant condoms...or just being asexual. I asked my stb bf to give blood. He figured it out. He showed me his receipt of "thank you"...and he felt good about it. I asked him if he'd had it all done..whole nine yards at his doc's and he said no...but then he went and had the whole exam stuff done.

It is a way to get the ball rolling...to see if they're willing to go that extra mile for you.

I am with Lem. If I bel ieve somebody is there for me 100 percent, they'd best roll up their sleeve or no nooky!

And this is coming from a woman who USED to have one helluva drive in days gone by...(but was married ok?)

Peach, oh wise one, I have to agree with the California chickie here. Your a smart, educated and vibrant woman, but your method above is pretty ignorant to say the least. That is a "poor man's" method of screening for STD's. Yeah, it could potentially probably lower your overall risk, but it would NOT be advice I would give people on this.

I think you hit it on the head in another post. If one is gonna make the adult decision to have sex, why not ask your potential partner to get tested first.....FORMALLY tested. Anyone who has nothing to hide and respects themselves and you WON't balk at this.

I want to make sure people understand that I am NOT advocating abstinence, but just sound, educated, precaution. Even in this case, one could contract an STD. But just the same, driving my car to work I could be hit by a bus and killed.....to lower this risk, I wear a seat belt and don't drive drunk. It is all pretty simple actually.

Just my .02.

Lem

There are all kinds of STDs that the bloodbank screening won't pick up.

And if you go to your Dr. or a Health Dept clinic for tests.
They give you the basic syphilis, gonoreah, HIV, Clamidia, etc...like they did me.
They DO NOT mention HPV, or other STD virus's, I'm sure are going throughout the world. Why don't they mention HPV as a standard test if it is one of the most common as LM says??

And is HPV in the blood. Is it part of standard testing before giving blood? Probably not!! Scary thought.

Lady

There are all kinds of STDs that the bloodbank screening won't pick up.

Believer, this really is making me nervous, because I have surgery at the end of the month and Dr said if I don't have my blood count up by 2 more points, I have to have a blood transfusion during surgery. Please pray.

Lady

LS:

The truth of the matetr is in part "ignorance" and in part "practicality". There are almost one hundred strains of Human Papilloma Virus, MOST of which are harmless. The lesions (warts) that arise from this, are by and large HARMLESS....at least, physically...ohviously, emotionally this is a different story.

There are 2 particular strains (HPV 16 and 18- I think) that are linked to cervical cancer....which in REALITY would be picked up by an annual pap smear ALL women of age to have Sex should be having anyway. SO that is the likely rationale for not screeing for this. Certainly in screening for blood, it would not matter if someone had HPV, as it is a disease trasmitted by genital contact...NOT through blood borne mechanisms.

Testing for HPV when there is no active or visible lesions would be very expensive and difficult to do in a global sense. Many of us would have some form of HPV positivity.....not necessarily active genital warts. You can test for HPV with serological DNA testing, but this is probably very expensive, and many insurances may not pay for it anyways.

The main issue with contracting HPV (for a woman anyways) besides the obvious psychological burden is the link to Cervical Cancer. If you get annual PAP testing, this should be caught early enough to do something about it. I fully realize that this is probably of no help to you "NOW in the moment" or any "comfort"...but I thought I would give you a ratioinale anyways.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

A sad update?! Ditch the ****** pig! Give me a break...

yes, sadly true about the hpv virus.

so many things aren't initially screened for. Just the biggie ones...the huge tombstone makers that is.

One of my former coworkers, is gay. He is a wonderful man. He has been involved with a man who is his long term partner. About 10 years together. They are very kind people. HIs partner is positive. And my friend, thru being safe, has never seroconverted. So safe sex works mostly I believe.

Unless you choose to live in a bubble, you have to decide what you are willing to accept in your life.

Benefit vs. Risk basically.

Lady, I think you will be fine with the surgery. Again, hon, the benefit will usually outweigh the risk...if not, then your doc would NOT ask you to have the surgery...or he or she would have taken some time to discuss this with you at length.

I would feel fine knowing this. When my ds was a preemie, he had to have a transfusion. I was unable to give since I had had a c section...I was sooooo upset. My doc, a friend ofmine, discussed the probabilities he'd catch something from blood with me at length. We felt very safe. My ds is fine. And we'll keep you in prayers ok?

Boss....I have to be honest with you here, you are gonna ram sacked by some people here if you keep up with your posts in this nature. Not saying that I necessarily disagree with you one bit...but "tact" may be somehthing that you should look into. It will probably serve you well in your life.

What is your story?

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LM - You are becoming more and more "politically correct".

Lady - I would not worry about getting a transfusion. The blood here is very safe.

Peachy - Please put down the tequilas. When you give blood, they ask you questions about your sexual practices for a reason. They ask you not to donate if you have had multiple partners and have not practiced safe sex.

There are 2 particular strains (HPV 16 and 18- I think) that are linked to cervical cancer....which in REALITY would be picked up by an annual pap smear ALL women of age to have Sex should be having anyway. SO that is the likely rationale for not screeing for this. Certainly in screening for blood, it would not matter if someone had HPV, as it is a disease trasmitted by genital contact...NOT through blood borne mechanisms.


LM thanks for putting that back into perspective for me, it's not blood born. I had a normal pap in March. Dr. cannot give me a pap now because of my prolapse, and nearing surgery, the nurse told me this on yesterday. That may change when I talk to him on Tuesday, but she sounded assured of that. She also explained this...any abnormal pap could be pre-cancerous or cancerous. So if a test comes out abnormal and cervical cancer is detected, they then test for HPV. HPV is not a regular part of a pap, unless it is requested, or unless a pap comes back abnormal.


So, this is what I am understanding, women will never know if they have HPV unless they have lesions (warts) or an HPV requested test with their pap smear.

Men will never know if they have HPV unless they have lesions (warts).

Lady

Peachy, Thanks for your comforting words. I'm glad your DS made it through, that must have been frightening for you. The benefit outweighed the risk. I'm going to try my hardest to get my blood count up.

And for now...I am choosing to live in a bubble.

I don't know if I will ever have a SF with my H again.

He is terribly greived tonight, crying. He told me that even if he said he is sorry, it won't cover it. He said he deserved it. He said he is more worried about me than himself. He is so angry at himself. He literally got on his knees in the laundry room praying and crying so hard. It's all so sad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Lady

"Tact" is something my wife has claimed I never had. And I agree. Sorry. I call things like I see them. Don't condemn me; maybe I'm what some on this site need? Have you thought of that? Sugar coating things isn't what all people need to hear.

You seem to agree with me in regards to this particular topic, however you're more subtle than I will ever be, but don't trample my style in the hopes of making yourself look good.

I get trod on in all aspects of life, and simply because you're an MD in "reality", here, we're equal. Don't call me Boss, okay Doc? I don't appreciate your chest beating. This woman has got an STD from a "man" who "claimed" to "love" her, and she's saying it's okay? ****** man, what's wrong with you?! What tact do you need to tell her that what she's going through is OKAY?!! ****** man!

People need to be slapped around in order to be awoken. LadySheep is one of them. Sacrifice tact or delution? I prefer tact. Sorry to be a [censored], nothing personal, but defending someone who's got a disease from repeated infidelity is just WRONG!

This woman has got an STD from a "man" who "claimed" to "love" her, and she's saying it's okay?
If you were understanding correctly, I don't believe I have the STD, as I have only had one time with my H in 4 months, Nov 1st I slipped with H. We don't know if I have anything yet. Dr. has seen nothing on me, but I have an appt. on Tues. about this. And I never said anything is Okay! In fact it's far from okay right now. EH you have such a WS mind, foggy!!

Sugar coating things isn't what all people need to hear.

This coming from a man (Endless Horizon) who thinks having sex with porn pictures online is okay.... and not harmful to anyone.

LM, don't listen to EH, he is terribly rude, abusive, etc...



Lady

Well Lady - I wish my WH had chosen to have sex with porn pictures. Instead he chose to have unprotected sex with the OW who had a history of being promiscuous. And I didn't find out for 5 months. All that time, he continued having sex with me, sometimes on the same day that he boinked her.

Believer, I understand what you are saying. That is horrible what he did to you too, and he put you in a very dangerous position to get an STD!! No one can get an STD from a porn picture, but nonetheless, it's sexually immoral IMHO, and I'm not sugar coating that.

Lady

Ok, EH, I will give you some validity here. But my overall point is, given that you want to "help" people here, hammering them and ramrodding them with tactless and rude comments is NOT likely to be heard.

Even if what you are saying is true, it will NOT get heard or prcoessed if you wrap it up and deliver it the way you are doing.

For the record, I don't need to harp on you to make myself "look" good here...LOL. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have been here for over a year, and it doesn't matter what I say next to you or anyone else, people have their "mind" made up about me all the same. I can't possibly "change" my "standing" or perception here given I have over 2000 posts. Trying to make you "look bad" would serve me no purpose at all.

I will apologize for using the word "boss" with you. It is actually a term of endearment, and was not meant faceitously.

Either way, as I well know, your not likely to get your POV accross doing things your way. Trust me I know. But, you do what you want, makes not differenc to me.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

P.S. You probably have no friggin idea how incredibly ironic this statement was by you;

I call things like I see them. Don't condemn me; maybe I'm what some on this site need. Have you thought of that? Sugar coating things isn't what all people need to hear.


I am actually dying laughing inside right now. And it is not because I am making fun of you. Some people reading tongight, will understand this.

Well I will call this segment Lemonman meets his clone.

Lady - While I agree that porn is not helpful to a marriage, there is a whole lot worse immorality. And that is exposing an innocent partner to STDs.

Our standard of practice (currently) is to do a cervical HPV swab (actually a funny looking brush on a stick) along with a pap smear.

The HPV screening along with a pap has only been standard practice .... ummmm .... about a year or so.

And now you can see why I consider myself lucky. My wife only had an EA with someone on the internet. Sexually at that! "I miss you", "You're the first thing I think of when I wake." It makes me sick! I can only imagine what Ladysheep is going through, let alone forgives! That to me (what she is going through) is a nightmare! My thoughts go out to you LadySheep. I'm sorry that people that you thought love you could do this to you. It turns my stomach. It's SO wrong.

"I'll pay half if you do talk to SH. You know that I try to encourage folks here to save their marriages. And you know of the member here whose WW died of AIDS (by the way, he is still testing negative). She was a health care worker.

I'll pay the whole tab, and show up as the poster child for this...I'm the "member" as believer puts it!

Lemonman has campaigned long and hard (to anyone who would listen) warning of the dangers inherent to unprotected sex with wayward spouses as well as imploring all concerned to have themselves and their spouses/significant others undergo testing for STD's.

I'll stop short of saying that Dr. H's lack of "coverage" of this is a disservice to those he (and this site) are attempting to help, but I will say that it's definitely an oversight that really does need to be addressed.

LM, you once said that anything you could do, just ask...well my friend, JUST KEEP SPREADING THE GOSPEL. If I have to be the "poster child", then you my friend have to be the "Paul Revere"!

The HPV screening along with a pap has only been standard practice .... ummmm .... about a year or so.
Pep...Okay, I got my last in march, normal, so does that mean that the HPV test was done with it?

Why did the nurse tell me yesterday HPV test had to be requested with pap or it is not done, or is done only after an abnormal pap?

And you know what.. I did ask if HPV swab could be done only, she said no. That is why I am asking Dr. about this on Tues. I have to be tested somehow, and I'm not waiting until next March!!!

Maybe these Dr's are behind the times...I don't know, but I will talk to the Dr. about this on Tues.

Lady

Lady:

It is not that these doctors are "behind the times"......MOSTLY ALL DOCTORS ARE BEHIND THE TIMES HERE WITH HPV TESTING, especically with it's (HPV) now being more righfully considered an STD.

Lem

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Love ya Lem.

By the way...don't know if you know this...but when I contradict you I do it mostly cause I think the poster is not ready for ya yet. I usually agree and think the poster will come back 2, 3 or 6 months later and say "Oh yeah...wish I'd listen to Lem" but I just take there side so they won't feel bad for not quite being where you think they should be in this process. I always presume you will come back with a LOL no matter how harsh I am. You, JP and all are successes and I will never again refer to you otherwise.

Your dead right about EH. I give him about 2 or 3 weeks before he gets bored. He'll run out of people to offend so he'll have to resort to offending himself. Offending himself...hmmmm...perhaps an alternative to pornography???? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


On the HPV thing. They have or will very shortly have a vacinne for this. I listened to a nightline or other late night tv news show a few weeks ago and they discussed the need for some reason to give this vacine to young girls at ages 13, 14 or 15 before any of them become sexually active and the difficulties with voluntary vaccination programs. The HPV virus significanty increase the chances of cervical cancer and the vacinne is going to be highly effective supposedly. They said, they fear the conservative oligarchy may attempt to discredit or otherwise interfere with it's production and dissemination to young woman on the auspices it indirectly promotes and/or condones sexual activity at a young age.

Something to watch for as when it becomes available even married couples should get vacinated for the reasons this thread originally addressed.

Mr. Wondering

That's probably what most clinics are doing ... follow up with HPV if the pap comes back ASCUS (atypical squamous cells of undetermined significance) ... with dysplasia (more abnormal) follow up is usually colposcopy

If fact, we don't screen women under 30 routinely with HPV along with the pap because, under 30, it is COMMON for women to carry the virus for awhile ... and then the body's immune system gets rid of it... . most younger women will carry the virus on her cervix for a temporary time ... without it causing disease or harm !!! this is contrary to what we used to be told.

If we HPV screen younger women with her pap, we'd be chasing positive results all the time ... with younger women, it makes more sense to just do annual paps. , and do HPV for mildly abnormal paps.

next year the whole screening proceedure may be different ... it is evolving after decades of no changes

Hey Ron - I didn't mean to call you out.

You said "I'll stop short of saying that Dr. H's lack of "coverage" of this is a disservice to those he (and this site) are attempting to help, but I will say that it's definitely an oversight that really does need to be addressed."

Why not call it what it is - a disservice is putting it mildly. We BS's are told to meet the WS's ENs. We are desperate and wanting to save our marriages. SOMEONE needs to put the test for STDs caveat in there.

It's OK. The good doctor has been fighting this almost singlehandedly for too long. If one's got to pick a fight, this is as good as any. I don't believe either of us is naive enough to think we'll win (educating the masses), but it strikes me as a noble endeavor.

LM:

Let me ask you or any others this...

This is specific to LM, though...

Envision the person you love most in this world...

You are presented with the opportunity to use your expertise to SAVE THE LIFE of this person....

The only way that YOU can do this is to drive 95mph down the interstate on a rainy night....

YOUR ONLY PRECAUTION is a SEATBELT...

Would you do this...

The analogy..to save my marriage (near and dear to me)..I used all the precautions available..knowing that this almost had to be done to SAVE IT...

I took a CALCULATED RISK....

Don't we take CALCULATED RISKS a lot in this life..being realistic here?

Just wondering...not to debate this...

As some of you already know, I personally would do it all again..it was worth the RISK to ME...

Okay. Everything you said, I understand. It's hard for me to change. I would if I could, and I try, since it's what my wife complains of alot, but it's ingrained. I don't mean to be rude, not at all, nor insult you, it just happens. Go figure.

Sadly, I missed the irony... I see the practicality of my cold advice as something that some need to hear. I'm not bulletproof either. I suspect (paranoia) that soon, one day, I will get "news" of my wife's "relapse" into the affair which I will never recover. I hope not. In my bleak moments I think so, but logically I feel she loves me.

But I am not her keeper.

If you have some tips on tact, I would appreciate them, greatly. I intend to use those tips to further swoon my wife into loving me beyond belief (more than my amorous charms), and grabbing hold of her heart forever...

I'll pay the whole tab, and show up as the poster child for this...I'm the "member" as believer puts it!

Lemonman has campaigned long and hard (to anyone who would listen) warning of the dangers inherent to unprotected sex with wayward spouses as well as imploring all concerned to have themselves and their spouses/significant others undergo testing for STD's.

I'll stop short of saying that Dr. H's lack of "coverage" of this is a disservice to those he (and this site) are attempting to help, but I will say that it's definitely an oversight that really does need to be addressed.

LM, you once said that anything you could do, just ask...well my friend, JUST KEEP SPREADING THE GOSPEL. If I have to be the "poster child", then you my friend have to be the "Paul Revere"!

I listened to Lemonman, he hammered me to get testing, stay abstinent, etc... If it wasn't for his advice I probably would have slipped up with my H many times. I slipped up once. I hope it wasn't once to many <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> .

Ron53, How are you doing now? I don't know you and your wifes story? What happened in short?

Lady

Thanks. I''m so glad you validate my decision to remain with my wife. She had an EA w/cybersex, but as she put it, it was her "porn". My wife has a good way of describing things, and putting things into perspective. I'm lucky.

Lady - I have found great comfort in a feature on this site - when you click on a poster's name, it takes you to a multiple choice panel, and one of the options is to "ignore this poster". I had to do that with this poster and a couple others who advocate a worldly POV that porn is an asset to a marriage. I don't know who is sitting on the other side of the internet, posting from computers under these i.d.s but for me, it might as well be the devil himself. So I made it so I can't read "marriage building" contributions from those who advocate stuff that has destroyed mine.

Kayla,
Thankyou, It has been done. I was wondering how to do that yesterday. This is the first time I have ever had to do it with a poster, as his posts on this thread and others has been very disturbing.

I hope he didn't ruin my thread, which was probably his intention.


Thanks again, Lady

”I don't know you and your wife’s story? What happened in short?

just found out - again

the delicate question

response to LemonMan on STDs

the aftermath

it's a twisted tale (aren't they all), hope you can follow...

LS,LM and others,
This thread was very near and dear to me as I'm in 100% total agreement of what LM has been stating all along.

My Story:
I had been married to my W for nearly 32 years, raised a family(now grown and out of house) and, as all of us BS's thought, would never be betrayed by my wonderful wife and mother of my children.

Fall of 2001, I develope odd looking moles on my genitals. Surely it will go away, I thought. Just a quirky thing that can't be explained. We all have these anomalies in our bodies from time to time. Not worth thinking about.
WRONG!!!!

Condition continues to exitst and it begins to become a concern I can no longer overlook. I actually show my wife and tell her how perplexed I am(never heard of HPV before).
We lived a monogomus marriage for a lifetime and I could not even entertain the thought that an STD would have shown it's ugly head, as I had been completely faithful, and I'm absolutely sure she has been too !!

I continue in denial for bout another 8 mos. being naieve and ignorent. I began a search on internet for what this could possibly represent, and it ALWAYS directed me to HPV virus. Not possible, I thought.

Finally, after much agonising and spectulation, I tell my wife that I am going to DR. and have this diagnosed. She agrees this is the best thing to do, as I don't know what this could possibly be.

In the meantime, wife becomes paronoid about OM and contacts him for a confrontation. He finally admits, after much denial, that, "yea, I had that about 5 years ago, but had it taken care of(the f---- idio!)

Wife realises, she may have a major problem hiding her secret from a year ago, but still insists I go to DR. as planned. Still no confession from wife, as, she was not about to disclose her ONS, on the outside chance that is was not HPV.

Took DR. about 5 seconds to diagnose what I had and I can't even begin to tell you the devastation that took place in my heart! My wife KNEW and let me go to our family practioner of 25 years, hoping against all hope, that it was something else. This hurts tremendously, to this day, that I did not really have to unveil this infidelity to him also.

I resent the fact, that to this day, my wife could have ended her secret and sparred me and her the embarressment of letting our family DR. know of what took place!

I posted a few replies in JFO forum about STD's and like LM,
very seldom got a response from anyone about that. We get so caught up in trying to salvage our M that we often forget about the health risks involved in having SF with a WS.

I can only restate that, an STD, is the only way I found out about my wife's ONS, and would never had found out if it weren't for that.

HPV is not really dangerous for me, but it is actually far more dangerous for my wife. I INSIST, that she have a yearly Pap smear, as it is the 90% cause of cervical cancer.
This is why the medical profession in now concentrating on a prevention of HPV rather than doing more research into cervical cancer. HPV is present in all cervical cancer patients. LM, correct me if I'm wrong.

This is why they are now trying to produce and distribute to girls from 11 to 15 a vaccination(if you will), a form of immunization against HPV, before they become sexally active.

LS, hang in there. I had my warts burned off with a laser. It took several burnings to finally complish this but it has now been over 2 years since any reoccurence. For me it is not life threatining, but I often fear for my wife, as the implications for women is more threatening.

You are in my prayers,
All Blessings,
Jerry

it's a twisted tale (aren't they all), hope you can follow...

Ron, thankyou for the links. I am sorry to hear of the loss of your wife just 8 short months ago.

I did have a hard time following your story somewhat. If you don't mind, could I ask a few questions. If my questions are too much, that is okay, I would understand.


Did you know prior to your wifes passing that she had Aids?

Did she ever get tested, or did she refuse to be tested?

Did she get tested but kept the results secret?

Lady

”Did you know prior to your wife’s passing that she had Aids?’

NO! “D-day was June 13 2004. Both of us had FULL physicals on July 1(or so I thought). At that time I had the full battery of tests. I was told that she did also (as well as a pregnancy test, as there can be no divorce in this state if the wife is pregnant).

It was only after the fact (pulling medical records postmortem) that I learned that neither a test for STDs or pregnancy had been performed by her physician. Whether any tests were performed at any other facilities/physicians is unknown (but doubtful). It was also after the fact (6 days as a matter of fact) when the lab work came back that her doctor realized there were “anomalies”. In the good doctor’s defense (and she is just that, a good doctor), she had never been told of any possible exposure to STD or HIV. She did the best she could do given the information at hand.

In writing this, a glaring omission on my part becomes obvious...did I ever ask to see results of these tests? NO, she started her period...ok, she’s not pregnant (wow, big relief for me), she said everything was “OK", so I left it at that. As I’ve alluded to several times in various threads, any mention of her cavalier approach to either the spectre of pregnancy or STDs ALWAYS lead to very heated discussion. The subject was only broached twice, and both times I had the divorce paperwork thrown in my face with very explicit instructions to “then divorce my a$$ if it bothers you so much”.

The “knowing” part...did she know...my wife was many things, but stupid (in spite of her behavior) was not one of them. I strongly suspect that she knew something. Something more then she was telling me, or our family. It may have been nothing more than a feeling that her time was at hand. To be absolutely honest with you (and myself), I don’t think she wanted to live anymore. Whether it was killing the baby years ago, the loss of our son, the loss of her lover, the loss of herself, or the ultimate destruction of our family...the consequences had finally rolled around, and she DID NOT want to face any of it.


”Did she ever get tested, or did she refuse to be tested?”

I’ll answer in her words...”I refuse to live in fear”.


”Did she get tested but kept the results secret?

I don’t believe so, and I base that simply on her answer to me when I asked what she would have done if she had gotten pregnant by one of these men. She told me she would have simply “run away”. I assumed then that she meant, literally, that she would have simply packed up one day and gone off to live her life. No good-bye, no farewell, just gone one day...out of our lives however. Perhaps what she really meant was that she’d simply “run away” from life. I suppose that not wanting to live any longer qualifies...

Jerry,

I'm sorry it took a while for me to get back here. I have been exhausted mentally and physically through this...had to lay down for a nap, get dinner etc...

Thankyou for taking the time to share your story here.
It must have been devastating at the time, and truly it's the reality of what can happen through infidelity. It's astonishing your W kept that secret for a whole year, until she couldn't keep it no longer, unfortuanately through an STD.

Did you ever sense something was wrong during the time of her ONS?

Your experience is very much like mine, except I knew of my H infidelity. And to tell you the truth, I don't trust that that was his only time of cheating on me. I don't know if I am being paranoid, or it's the intuition of God telling me he has done it more. I just don't believe him when he tells me that was the only time.

I didn't know about the lesions, he called moles until last week, 4 months later of his infidelity (if that was the only time)!! As I read it generally take 3-4 months for symptoms. How long was it until you noticed the lesions?

I am still somewhat furious, as he tried to pull them off as moles/age spots last week, and then "said" his Dr. told him that (not sure if he is lieing about that... yet). I can't wait to talk to his Dr.!! If a PA could diagnose those in 15 sec., I'm sure his Dr could have.


It was an STD I had never heard of, or thought of through all the testing we had done prior and are still waiting for results for.

All I can say now Jerry, is I am scared. I am scared my H can walk out the door and cheat at any time.
And....I am scared of STD's now. I am not doing emotionally well through this. Since finding out about the STD, Here I am on MB...searching the internet...calling many Dr's...and clinics. My H is doing nothing. You would think his knowing he has it he would want info wouldn't you?
He is acting so nonchalant about his diagnosis, and that scares me too!! And I'm scared I might have it now! I am usually not a fearful person, but I am scared. And did I tell you...I'm scared!!!???


How are you and your W doing now in recovery?

Thanks again Jerry,
Lady

Ron,

That is so scary!! Did I say scary!!?? Your wife left you in the dark about so much!!!

How could she not get tested? How could have she has just gone on the way she did?

How devastating that must have been for you!! Truly I don't know how you lived through all of that mentally...by grace maybe!

I don't know what to say except I pray Gods comfort and guidance for you now. May you have a better life than you ever imagined possible!! You truly deserve all the best!!

Sincerely,
Lady

Lady -

Try to remain as calm as possible. Yes, it is awful that your husband exposed you, but it isn't the end of the world. Chances are very good that you won't have any problems.

I think the saddest thing about Ron's story is that his wife died, and he didn't get any kind of closure. They were finally in recovery, but ran out of time. When she died, she left her husband and grown children with no answers.

As a woman and mother, I can't think of anything more tragic.

I think the saddest thing about Ron's story is that his wife died, and he didn't get any kind of closure. They were finally in recovery, but ran out of time. When she died, she left her husband and grown children with no answers.

As a woman and mother, I can't think of anything more tragic.
Believer it is probably the most tragic I have ever heard of also. I am truly so sad for him, his family, and knowing the recovery he has to go through now is beyond my comprehension. With so many questions not answered.
It's very sombering and sad to think that she would leave that way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Lady

oh! i just read through this. Its so scary to read what we have to go through as BS for the fault of our H's. I mean this is completely disgusting. Due to their choices and actions we have to suffer always.....

I have not even thought about getting tested yet. I know my H will never do it but i guess i should do it.

Thanks lemon.

Hi always,


I read a little of what is going on in your sitch. I am so very sorry you are in the pain of your WH adultery too. Please becareful. Please get tested for EVERYTHING!

It is scary, I have no contentment like I used to. I am constantly wondering...what is next...on edge. How to get through the day? I am so sad always!! It's Christmas time I should be happy, and I'm not. I can't even fake happiness for the children, I am so greived by all of the mess.

I hope you find all the answers you need Always. I'll be prayin for ya. I know with God all things are possible. God wants you to know. You ask Him to show you ALL you need to know concerning your H and He will show you. He did it for me, he will do the same for you.

Lady

<<<<bump>>>>

(((Ladysheep)))

I hope your MD visit Tuesday gives you some good news. ((LS))

Thanks Jean....I hope so too!

Lady:

You don't feel like your faith is strong enough to TRUST IN THE LORD to help you through this...

I noticed that you say that you have NO CONTENTMENT...

"The LORD is my shepherd...I shall not want...."

Hi Mimi,

Yes...The Lord is the only One I trust at this point, but my faith is weak, and I am weak.

And no I am not content. I feel I am pressed on every side!
I am very distressed!


Lady

Joshua 1:9 "I command you--be strong and courageous! Do not be afraid or discouraged. For the LORD your God is with you wherever you go."

It's a good verse to remember. God is with you through everything. And anxiety is nothing but the fear of things yet to come, which may or may not come to pass. Why spend 50% of life on fear and distress when we have God on our side. I know it's discomforting to be going through trials when we have no control over them. But let God be there with you one day at a time.

Thanks Askme, I know God is with me. I feel Him, and hear Him. It's just hard to be strong right now. You don't know how much I want to be strong right now. You don't know how I wish I was strong enough to pack up the kids and go far far away right now. So the Lord needs to be strong for me at this point. I can't bear much more.

I don't know if anyone would feel "strong" going through this.

But thanks anyway.

Just please pray for me.

Why do you say this, Lady?

We are encouraging you to develop your strength. Do you see that as being uncaring of us?

We are encouraging you to develop your strength. Do you see that as being uncaring of us?
No Mimi I don't think that is uncaring of you, why would you say that????

I just don't have strength right now...in fact I am very weak....that is all I am saying. It's a wonder I am able to get out of bed every day....I am feeling very depressed.

Please don't judge my faith at such a time as this. I know God will take care of us, I'm just not strong enough to handle what has happened. I guess I am still feeling all the feelings of being totally betrayed by my H.

Lady

I've been at your same place or EVEN WORSE, Lady... Believe me, though, this is not a CONTEST that I want to win...

I had to pull myself up and NOT GIVE INTO THE SADNESS OR DEPRESSION or I never would have made it...

I believe that you are STRONGER than you think that you are...

You have to TELL YOURSELF...CONVINCE YOURSELF that you can make it...

Really, I bet that I could OUTSCORE you on the LOSSES and BETRAYALS that I suffered and pulled through....

FIGHT THIS, LADY.....

YOU CAN DO THIS...WITH THE HELP OF OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR...HE WILL CARRY YOU THROUGH....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I went to the Dr's again today, due to the constant pain in my chest.
Dr. says I have anxiety. Go figure!!!
He wanted to give me some meds, but I told him I would rather not start any prior to my surgery.

But I'm relieved it's not something wrong with my heart or lungs. They ran an EKG and Exray, and bloodwork. I'm still very anemic.

It was the same PA we saw last Friday, that diagnosed my H
last Friday. They all said didn't we just see you on Fri.?
I'm sure we were the talk of the whole Dr's office, I was so ANGRY!!

When they first took us in Fri., you know when they take you to a room weigh you and all, and ask you what you are there for??? There was about 5 nurses in the room and Assistants too. I said outloud, "my H says he has a mole, I want to make sure it's not an STD!!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I guess I wasn't very discreet about it.


I tried to get a talk with my H Dr., but he was busy. I was allowed to talk to the Dr's nurse. I told her what my H said about his Dr. saying it was a mole. And I told her that H was diagnosed with genital warts as of Friday. I told her I didn't think the Dr. said that it was a mole prior (meaning my H probably lied). But if so I would like to see documentation to that by my H. I told her my H told me he told his Dr. about the prostitute. She said my H probably didn't tell him anything. But she cannot by privacy law tell me anything. I told her I know, but I wanted them to know what my H had said and did and the Dr. should be aware of everything concerning my H. So she is telling the Dr.
He has been his Dr. for many years. I didn't tell my H about my conversation with the nurse. So anyway I hope my H gets a 2x4 from his Dr next time he sees him.
This is the same Dr. that has saw my H healed of Hep C!!

Lady

Lady just be careful with the stress. You might want to do some things for yourself like exercise, or walks just to relax. Take time out for you.

I saw where your husband was referring to genital warts as moles. There are also skin tags that look like genital warts. I have known people to get panicky over skin tags just to find out they aren't warts.

Went to the Dr. this morning. I have no lesions. He didn't need to do an internal because he did one last Thurs. He has never seen lesions. I am relieved. Dr. said I should forgive him, if he does it again well then you know... I have been working on forgiveness all these months, now this. But I know I will be alright, I just don't know if H will be alright.

Askme*** no, skin tags are soft "flaps" of skin. You know those irritating flaps of skin that you would get on the neck or under the arms, and they can grow on the gentilia area too. Warts have a distinct look, either cauliflower shaped lumpy look, or look like a ordinary raised smooth skined wart, or a scaly look. There is a distinct difference in the look of a skin tag versus a wart

How I wish I could excercise, I know it would help my anxiety ...but I can't right now because of my condition. I can barely make it through the grocery store without problems. After surgery, I will have to find a workout program of some sort.

Well, finally, some good news.

{{{Lady}}}

Sorry to hear about your sitch. But I am glad that you are OK. I am sending up prayers for you.

God Bless
LaShell

Well, finally, some good news.

So true Believer, there's just been too much bad news the past 5 months.

Though.... I am concerned about my H now. He is not discussing much about it with me.

I don't know where our SF life will be from now on.
Dr. says use condom, but we know that doesn't protect from GW, and none while he has the GW.

I just can't take that chance even after they are removed.
I don't know what the answer is except we live a no SF marriage...and that is bad news......Will that lead him to look elsewhere again???....I just don't know what to do.
I don't want to take a chance of any disease entering my body!!!!!

Any ideas????

Lady

Lady - I read a little on the internet. Four or 5 sources said that the virus that causes warts is not the one that causes cervical cancer.

"External genital warts are primarily a cosmetic issue caused by the nononcogenic HPV subtypes, mostly subtypes 6 and 11." - Postgraduate Medicine

That does not mean that your husband doesn't have the other virus also though.

Since you plan to stay married, I suggest that you see some type of specialist and find out EXACTLY which virus he has.

Hi Believer...thanks.

Yes, there are many types. I was thinking the same as you because they are different subtypes. He will see the Dermatologist next Monday. From what I read they should have the capabilities to test what subtype it is. Some GW subtypes are carcenogenic, lets hope it's not one of those.
I have to tell you one of the GW looks terrible. It looks different from the other 2 which look like a normal warts.
I'm a little worried.

I don't have to worry about my cervix because it is going with my uterus.


We put the Christmas tree up tonight.
DS15 put the lights on, then he said "Mom don't we need to put the garlic on next?" I said "Yeah, we could sprinkle a little of that on there too." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

It's good that he is going to a specialist. Yes they can test and figure out what type it is.

I hope you will talk to a doctor who has the time to explain all of this to you. It is very complicated. The big threat is to your cervix if it is the bad type, but looks like you won't have that worry.

Also I read that something like 75% of women of child bearing age have been exposed to HPV.

I think you need to have a clear understanding of all of this and what risks you would or would not be taking by having sex with your husband. I almost (note I said ALMOST) feel sorry for your husband. What a mess he has made.

Yes believer I have a lot of questions for the Derm. I feel there would be danger having SF with H. I was reading all the scriptures of Lev 13, it talks of all the different skin diseases, what ones are infectuous, or not. What ones are clean what ones are unclean. It was very interesting.
I started getting a revelation of the meaning of clean and unclean.

Also the prostitute of Prov. 7:22-23 which talks of the man being lured to a prostitute having syphillis (which attacks the liver in it's late stages). This is what it says...
"Immediately he went after her as an ox goes to the slaughter,
Or as a fool to the correction of the stocks,
Till an arrow struck his liver.
As a bird hastens to the snare,
He did not know it would cost his life.


And I remember 2 months ago my pastor told my H, next time he does it, it may cost him his very life.

Did the doctor give your husband a prescription for Aldara? It's a topical cream used to treat HPV warts and basically makes them disappear. The drug is in a new class of drugs called immune response modifiers.

No..the Dr. didn't give him a prescription for anything yet. He has been refered to a Derm. to see next Monday.

Update.....

Went to the health clinic with H today. H had to get his 2nd HIV test, and syphillis test. The nurse took a look at him and said "Those look like warts". So that is the second professional that has said that. And there was a spot she looked at that we didn't see last week, there are 3 more, for a total of 6 now.

Now what concerns me is today I was reading about genital cancers can be caused by HPV. And they can be caused UV rays from sunbeds. My husband tans 3 times a week and has been doing so for about 1 1/2 yrs straight. But would a genital cancer from UV rays look the same as a wart?

Lady

Warts have a very distinctive look. They have little cauliflower like heads on them. Wait until he gets more testing to find out the exact sub-type.

And quit looking on the computer. I did yesterday, and some of those pictures were gross!

Keep in mind that untreated warts are very contagious. I would be sure your husband uses his own towel and washes his hands often.

Thought I would bump this to the top, instead of threadjacking other posters.

Apart from the usual STD's, and AIDS, there are many other diseases that are sexually transmitted.

I work with a young man who is dying from multiple myeloma. His doc asked him if he ever had sex with a prostitute.

I had a surprise this week. I guess it can be considered a Christmas present from my WS. I've been receiving copies of doctor and lab bills as my WH is still on my medical insurance. They total more than $3,000. in a 3 week period.
Since I had the dubious opportunity to share his seminal fluid with OW and whoever else she rutted with, I was curious.

I talked to his sis, and was informed that he has been diagnosed with Reiter's syndrome. I never heard of it, so googled it. It is a type of arthritis that is sexually transmitted.

Luckily, it ONLY causes arthritis, little sores in the mouth and conjuntivitis. It doesn't kill you. But if I end up having it, it can be passed to any future partners.

Yes, this is a disease that should be diagnosed more often than it is. It isn't simply for the fact that many MD's "miss it" or don't even really know about it.

It isn't terminal, but it does have some nasty sequale and the arthritis that develops can be debilitating in some circumstances.

I know a chap who got this, and had to take disability becasue of the arthritis that developed (or maybe he was also embellishing a little) to get on disability.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well LM, I'm still kind of reeling from this one. I DO have some kind of arthritis, and also have had two episodes of conjunctitis in the last several months. Also I had tiny blisters on the back of my mouth, that went away, so I didn't have them checked.

I have an appointment this week to get tested.

You have probably noticed that I'm in no mood to discuss the WH's "emotional needs" that lead to them exposing the faithful partner to who knows what disease.

Yeah, Beliver I am sorry. I had noticed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Knowledge is power.

You get tested and then you deal with the result and go from there. That is all you can do.

I should warn you though, searching the internet for this or any disease symptoms will drive you crazy.

You'll start thinking you have all of the symptoms that they note you may have. The mind is a powerful thing.

When I was a medical student, I once convinced myself that I had Lou Gehrigs disease. I had these muscle twitches and in my new found knoweldge, believed that I had developed a demyelinating muscle disorder..."ALS". I searched the entire library for information on this disease, and as I read more, and learned more, I became even more convinced I had the disease. There was NO WAY I didn't... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I drove myself and family and friends nuts with this.....

Turns out.....it was stress from preparing for the boards (and drinking 2 pots of coffee daily)... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The mind is a very very powerful thing girl.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My friend at work has had a bone marrow transplant that seems to have helped. The doctors still say he will die before long - maybe when he is 31.

He never was with a prostitute. However his wife and he are now divorced because she was unfaithful.

I'm so sorry, B. I was just going to ask you how long it would take to find out. Let us know when you get the results.

{{{{{Believer}}}}}

Thanks LM. I will count myself lucky if I don't have it. Of course I will let the docs decide. I only googled it because I had never heard of it before. But I wasn't surprised that it was sexually transmitted.

WH has been dealing with it for about 2 months. He hasn't been able to walk, because his knee was all swollen up. He just found out this week. I don't know if he knows that it is sexually transmitted. If he doesn't, I'll be sure to tell him.

When I got angry at him for not using a condom with OW and still having almost daily sex with me (before I knew there was an affair), he told me that OW was not the "type" to have an STD. Well, at least she didn't have "I'm HIV positive" tatooed on her forehead.

Neak - I have talked to my doc. There is some kind of chromosome test for it. What that has to do with anything, I have no idea.

Yes, Believer...this is the exact reason why I get so riled up with this subject, and even more riled up with the comments that were made on the other thread.

Too many people still have the naive belief that "it won't happen to me"....that is, untill it does.

Then they are blasted with the dead reality of this.

I am sure that my persistent discussion of this topic makes many uncomfortable....they probably would feel better if we all just IGNORED (like is done in other places here) the subject, and just "hoped" that it won't happen to us.

Can't do that....I feel too much of a duty to empower people and give them the knowledge about this and WARN them of the risk. And then warn them again.

I got an email the other day from a Betrayed Spouse (whom I don't even ever remember posting here) who was confused with my advice, because she felt that NOT giving her Wayward Husband open Sex was going to ruin her chances of getting him back from the other woman, who was giving him EVERYTHING on the sexual front. She didn't like my advice and told me her WH did not "like me" for putting these dumb ideas in her head... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I had to chuckle honestly.

That is sad, but there comes a time when one has to make a decision and live with the consequences. There is an easy answer to all of this...but when I think about it...probably JUST EASY FOR ME... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Sad, if you ask me.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hi Believer, thanks for bringing this thread back up.
I will bring you up to date on what happened with my H at the Derm. office last week.

I am not thrilled at what happened at the Derm's office. I did not go with him because I had our 3 yrs old, and did not want to take him with us to such an appt.

First thing he did not see the Dermatologist (he was on vacation or something), he saw a NP
(Nurse Practicioner). He did not like her, said she was flat, rude etc... I guess he felt she should be nice to him. She diagnosed H with GW, and gave him scripts for 2 different topical meds(one for his genital area, and one for his rectum, yes... they are on rectum too).
I don't think a NP can shave and test GW, that is why it was not done.

His next appt. is around Jan 11... I think. He called and said he would only like to see the Dr. only on his next appt.
Hopefully testing will still be possible then.

H also brought me a printout on GW given by the NP.


This printout says everything contrary to what I have been reading and told from other professionals....That genital warts are sexually transmitted only.

It says quote....By Robert Brodell M.D.(not H Dermatologist)
Genital warts are known to be sexually transmited, but warts can be spread to the genitals from other parts of the body and through nonsexual contact Dr. Brodel noted. The presence of genital warts does not mean the patient has been sexually active or, in the case of perianal wart in men, has had homosexual experiences.
Condylomata (Genital Warts) and HPV infection gave been linked to increased risk of malignant neoplasms of the cervix, vulva, vagina, perineum and penis. Certain HPV strains --types 16 and 18--are linked with highter risks of neoplasm than others.

The rest of the printout just explains about the different treatment options and a survey.

I went to Robert Brodell's website, and looked up the definition of Genital Warts...He has a medical glossary there.

Genital Warts- A growth on the skin on or around the vagina, penis or anus, transmitted by sexual contact, can cause cancer of the cervix.

Okay...So Dr. Brodells info in the printout is contrary to the definition. Is he trying to confuse me?

Lady

Well, LM, you and I can discuss this all day, I guess.

People don't want to think about it.

The whole MB thing is to win the infidel back with a good Plan A, meeting their needs. SF is usually high on the list. The OP is meeting them and now the BS is encouraged to meet them.

After the shock of D-day, I jumped on the band wagon. I never gave too much thought to STD's. Afterall, we're trying to save a marriage here.

I posted a lot to Ron. In April when his wife died from AIDS, I went back and read all of my posts to him, hoping that I hadn't told him to have SF. I was TERRIFIED that I might have told him to go ahead, and "win" his wife back.

I think that is what made me start posting about STD's. The Harley's are strangely quiet on the whole subject, and as you can see, so is most everyone else.

Believer, I am sorry to hear of your concerns. I pray you don't have what you think you might have.

My hysterectomy surgery has been postponed now, due to my chest pain.
Even though EKG, and Chest exray came out normal. Dr. chaulked it up to anxiety (My H being the biggest cause of that). But my OBGYN wants a Medical Clearance done on me now. I'm still having chest pain off and on. New surgery date Feb 22nd if everything clears.

LemonMan.... I think BS's are CRAZY to go back into SF with a WS without getting checked for STD's first. I slipped once with H while waiting results, and I'm reaping the worries now. H 2nd HIV result will be back in about a week, if it's neg, then I am neg. Let's pray it's neg.

Lady

Lady - Praying that it is negative.

Well, LM, I checked back to the first of this post. There have been 16 people replying to it. Over 1300 have read it, so I think I'll be happy with that.

It is a subject that no one really wants to think or talk about, especially in the midst of meeting the infidel's "needs".

Yeah, that's ok Believer....the message is spreading. The silence and lack of posts speaks volumes. If even ONE STD case is aborted because of this thread, then this is a smashing success.

The only thing we can do is keep "spreading" (pun intended <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />) the word. Remind people of the consequences of having SF with a Wayward who has practiced high risk behavior.

People here are adults, in the end they themselves have NOONE else to blame if they get an STD. The devestation of finding out your spouse has cheated is all consuming, and many may not be able to "think" about consequences of their actions.....that is why this message is so important.

It is no doubt seen as anti-marriage building by some (got the emails to prove it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />), but so what? We should NOT let this "die".

This will eventually be put on the web site Q/A portion. We need to remain a royal pain in the A$$ untill done so.

Goodjob bumping this thread.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Lady:

The chance that your WH 2nd HIV test is negative is extremely high. Don't waste a second worrying about it now. You have done the responsible thing. Statistically speaking, his and your 2nd test will likely be OK. Prayers being sent anyway.

Your bigger issue is getting your hysterectomy done. The chest pain you are having is likely 100% stress derived and related to anxiety rather than coronary artery disease. The problem is, any surgeon now sees "chest pain" in your chart, and he starts seeing potential complications and potential letters written by people with ESQ after their name.

Get "cleared" and get this surgery over with so you can move on with your life.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey Lem,
A lot of us have read here that may not have posted on it. I have a question for you.

What is the protocol for testing for HIV? I guess I mean as to time guidelines. I hear about the 1st and 2nd test, but what is the timeline? My doctor did not say anything about a 2nd test.

Believer and Lady Sheep, I pray that all of your tests come out ok.

You guys have a post going that is very close to my heart.
I originally posted to this in the very beggining of it but I still have my own doubts and thoughts about it.

To update again, the developement of HPV was the very reason I found out about my WW's infidelity. It's a very serious problem that is not talked about nearly enough on this forum. How would you like to married and faithful for 32 years and develope an STD. I can think of better ways of finding out, but, alas, all are devestating aren't they?

Some points I've learned through first hand experience:
Not only did I develope GW on my penis, but also in my anus.
Now let me say, unequickely(sp), I am a straight heterosexual, who has no way engaged in anal sex of any form.
Notheless, I developed GW in my anus as well. I couldn't understand this, as, most WEB SITES didn't support this notion. But I must tell you, this can absolutely happen, regardless of what most agree on.
The eradication of my GW on my penis consisteed of not one, but two laser burning sesions. I can't begin to tell you how plesant this was!!!!
But in terms of my anus, they disappered by themselves in a period of about one year.
I will tell you, and any doctor worth his salt, will tell you the same thing,: Topical ointments DO NOT WORK. They are nothing more than a hoax to people who are desperatate for a quick cure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I,for one, am totally in agreement with LM. This is simply not enough warning to newly BS's that their WS needs to to tested for STD.
Had I only known. I had been married for 32 years. Imagine my devastation, at my family doc on DDay. It wasn't pretty!
All Blessings,
Jerry

Thank you for reading this thread.

Timelines can vary, but generally it takes 6 months of testing from your last exposure to be 100% certain that you have not contracted the virus.

Antibodies to HIV will show up most often within three months, and it is extremely unusual for antibodies to HIV to not be "positive" in the blood by 6 months.

Generally (though there may be some variation), one could get a test NOW (if thought to be exposed), one in 3 months, and then one at 6 months to be certain....although that may be an overkill.

I think 2 negative tests 3 months apart (with no "risk" exposure) in the interim would be satisfacory to me.

I am not exactly certain what the CDC official guidelines are.


Hope this helps.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LM - I'm still interested in someone (maybe you?) talking to the Harleys about the gap in their counseling. I'll pay half, and maybe some more folks will chip in.

Hi Jerry,

It's good to hear from you again.

Yes, from what I have read GW's can be spread to the anus, unfortunately it happened that way with you and my H. My H is in much pain from it. What I don't understand though is that H said to the NP that his anus hurt, and the NP didn't look there, but prescribed GW med for it anyway. He has had hemoroids in the past. Maybe she just assumed it must be GW there too. Maybe there is a possiblility it is hemoroids, but probably not.

Did your wife ever contract the GW's, if she did what was her treatment?

Lady

I love you, too, sourguy!

Regards,

BB

P.S. You've got mail <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hi LM, Thanks. I am trying to concentrate on getting my surgery done, now this. I was very disappointed having to wait another 2 months, but I understand. I hope the med clearance goes through. I'm sure it will.

Lady

I lurk more than post lately, but I have been following this thread with interest from time to time.

I am very thankful that at least my STBX didn't leave me with the gift that keeps on giving. I just got my negative HIV results back (6 months).

I never have considered being intimate with him after finding out about his infidelity (which turned out to be the latest of more than one infidelity). Although, he still offers to be "friends with benefits" (skin crawling, shudder).

I also wonder why the issue of STDs is not more fully addressed by the Harleys.

Hi Pebbles, good to hear it's negative. Wasn't it one of the longest 6 months of your life...waiting. It is mine.


I wish it was too.

Lady

Just wanted to jump in and add that one of the attorneys I sought counseling from told me that if I had contacted a STD then it would be considered sexual assault and charges could be filed.

Well....this would be assuming that the perpetrator knowingly "knew" they were infected and willfully exposed you to the STD.

Truthfully.....FOR ME, filing a sexual assault charge AFTER the fact of contracting an STD would be of little solace. But that's just me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

The fact of the matter is: MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY ARE INFECTED. Sad, but true.

Lem

Shattered -

I think it is the same in California. If a person knows that they are infected, then there is a problem with the law.

But most WS's don't know if they are infected. They have risky sex without using any protection. That is the norm.

Most of us know that there are diseases out there. Come on, it has been pounded into us. But somehow, most WS's completely forget this. Their OP is clean, pure, and blah, blah, blah.

When I asked my STBX if he had used condoms with his MOW, to prevent STDs, he rolled his eyes and said, "She's not like that!" Well, if a serial cheater is not "like that," who is???

They just think it can't happen to them. The back-to-teenage mentality.

LM, what's your specialty? you sound like your in primary care. But saw a post few days ago that you're setting out to sea... are you a cruise ship doc?
BTW, I haven't seen much talk on hepatitis testing... Hep B and C can be chronic yet treatable and sexually transmitted as well.

Primary care? No, actually probably the opposite of primary care....Trauma surgery. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know about STD's and Infectious diseases because as a medical student I once wanted to be an HIV specialist. Once I got into the OR arena, I couldn't resist that, but I still have an interest in infectious diseases.

I think being a "good" primary care doctor is probably the hardest task for any phsyician. There is just so much to know.

Your comments on Hepatitis B and C are important and often people (myself included) forget that these diseases are also STD's and potentially deadly and debilitating. They should also be tested for.

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think being a "good" primary care doctor is probably the hardest task for any phsyician. There is just so much to know

so true, lots primary care doctors I know suffer from burn-out, lots of info to keep up on, low reimbursement, and lots of patients that are not compliant... so the q2-3 month checks for cad, htn, dm, are just an exercise in futility trying to get them to improve their lifestyle, take their medications appropriately, eat better, etc...

Stu:

What do you do for a living? Are you in healthcare?

Lem

Lem,
I'm an FP
stu

What if the std is herpers. Unknown for sure if spouse had physical contact with another person, can't prove anyway. My only sexual contact ever and after well over 18 years of marriage I am diagnosed with genital herpes. Been told it could have happened when spouse was sexually active before meeting me. Everyone says there is no test for this unless active case, however there is a blood test called the western blot test now. Even went to a clinic which specializes in herpes and was told that we were only the 3rd case out of many that had experienced this after being married for so long. Doc questioned spouse several time on his faithfulness and he denied being unfaithful even after I left the room.

I know herpes doesn't kill ya and you can live with it, how does one protect themselves especially when no proof of affair and docs usually don't test or tell anyone about this one until there is a sore. Also you can be exposed to it and have it before you know your spouse has it. And according to what I have read it can lay dormant for years.

I thought when I was diagnosed with it that it would definitely show my spouse was unfaithful however not so. And I have more outbreaks than he does.

frequency of your outbreaks depends on some unknown factor of your immune system. Everyone's immune system is different this accounts for different rates of outbreak. Some people will have an intial outbreak upon exposure and not have another for 20-25 yrs while some will have an outbreak once a month.

I didn't realize that.

I was recently diagnosed with Fibro because of some incredible body and joint pain and all the arthritis tests came back normal plus some mental fog. I don't take the meds for sleep or pain cause I need to be coherent for kids.

I get incredible pain down one leg that I just found out was due to the herpes and I thought it was bad shoes all this time on that one leg.

So because of the fibro that may cause my outbreaks to be more frequent? I really hate the fibro diagnosis too.

Spouse also says he did not know he had herpes till I was diagnosed by a outbreak.

Hi LS,
Thanks for reply.
After DDay, I insisted W go to GYN to be tested for all STD's. Came back negative, but interestly enough, her doc examined her and said she could find no evidence of HPV either. Made for interesting convo between her and I but I know from reading, that probably 75% of women who have HPV, do not necessarily manifest GW and they have no idea they even have. It's a given at this point, that she must simply assume it's there, as she gave it to me.
It resides in the cells of the skin and is permanent. There is no cure.
We resumed SF because i smply reasoned that both have this and it's not going to go away. To date, no more GW appearences and none in my W either. I do insist, however that she get a yearly Pap smear(and she's already had a hysterectomy). It's far more dangerous for her than it is for me, and yearly exams are essential to look for any changes in the cells of the cervix.
Hope all goes well in your sitch.
All Blessings,
Jerry

Interesting to me that they did a hysterectomy and left the cervix in... it is rare that they do that.

Stu,
Sorry for the confusion. She had the hysterectomy 24 years ago. Not related at all to HPV.
Jerry

Shinethrough,

It seems strange to me that your W never had signs or symptoms of HPV GW's, but OM did, and you caught it from her.

I would like to know more about how the virus is passed like that, and how she can have it but it does not show up on any tests or visibly on her body, and still spread it.

Stu,
Some women can choose to keep thier cervix if it is in good shape, just as some can keep thier ovaries if they are in good shape. Dr. says my cervix has to go because it is thinned out too much, and dialated. As if having a baby due to the fiboid. It has been that way for quite some time.

Lady

HPV can be passed without any lesions. Like HSV, one can have frequent recurrences or rare recurrences of the lesions depending on your immune system. I've heard from a dermatologist that if one gets exposed to HPV when young then the immune system is more tolerant of it and one tends to get more frequent outbreaks than if exposed in adult age. But that was only a theory. I have not been able to confirm that theory in any literature.
If a woman gets a normal result on a papsmear (which is not that sensitive) than no red flags are raised to test for HPV. Now a days papsmears are done with a "thin prep". instead of smearing the cells on a slide in the doc's office, the cells are placed into a container with a preservative. Then those cells are put through a machine for cell count and identification. From that container HPV testing can be done via DNA analysis. But like I said if the pap is normal the HPV test is not done. Unless one asks for that test specifically even in light of normal papsmear.
I know that some docs in the past will offer to keep the cervix, but that only leave the future possiblity for cervical CA. the Cervix itself serves no purpose; through my training I don't know of any gyn surgeons that do that anymore. The ovary is usually kept in if a hysterectomy is done prior to menopause to keep the natural hormones as long as possible.

ls and Stu,
Godd quetions all. I'm not a doctor(nor do I play one on TV), but from everthing I've learned, it is not at all uncommon for one to contract HPV and NEVER show any signs or symptoms from it. Most women who have it, are not even remotely aware that they do.
My W confronted OM when she realized I was going to Dr. for confirmation, and he was not in any visible signs of HPV. He finally admitted to her(after lying), that he had it 5 years prior, but "had it taken care of." (DUH)!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
The actual transmission takes place from infected cells of the penile skin to the cervix or vulva of uninfected skin.
Stop me if this is getting too graphic, but it should be discussed more. LM and Stu might be able to help me out here.
From what I've learned, it's also possible that your body's own immune system may actually rid itself of this virus with no help at all. We are all different and that is possible, but not ususally the case.
So to answer your question, my wife's Om had no signs of HPV, but, nonetheless had virus anyway.
Hope this helps.
All Blessings,
Jerry

From what I've learned, it's also possible that your body's own immune system may actually rid itself of this virus with no help at all.

I suppose it can but there is no way to know that for sure...so when one has GW it is assumed one will always have GW.

Exactly right Stu,
This is why I insist my wife have a yearly pap smear. The only true way to tell is to have a DNA test of cervical cell which is very expensive and not usually covered by health insurance. Health insures feel yearly checkups will reveal anything life threatening, and they are comfortable with that.
I continue daily with only the best thoughts and hopes I can have. When my W had blood drawn from tech person, ( and LM will get a kick out of this), he told her not to bother getting tested for HIV, because this cost extra money, and all you really have to do is donate blood. They test for HIV and will let you know if you have it! Yikes.....
All Blessings,
Jerry

You know, my H said just a few moments ago, that the NP, said HPV could stay in the body for 20 years and not know it. I'm sure this is what he wants to believe happened to him. But the fact is is that he was with a prostitute 4 1/2 months ago.....duh. I think he really wants to believe he didn't get them from her. I told him, yes if he wasn't with the prostitute then, we could say it is possible it hung out in his body for so many years, but being with the prositute kind of rules that out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

It also makes me angry that he tried to decieve me in telling me 3 weeks ago that he had a mole, and had to be seen by a Dermatologist, he didn't tell me he had about 6 GW on his genitals. I'm sure he had to know he had a disease on him, with that many. I didn't see or know (because he didn't tell me) about the rest of it until I took him to the Dr's offices, and seen them for myself.

I had to deal with the pain of his infidelity, and then he tries to decieve me with the STD stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Lady

I was diagnosed with herpes when i was trying to get pregnant. My H claimed then and now that he did not wander. I know that I had had only protected sex before i met him, so my belief is that he gave them to me. I think that he believes that he is not infected because he has never had an outbreak, yet for the last 15 years he has had unprotected sex with me. Could it be possible for one to have herpes and not show symptoms and is it possible for him to never get it? BTW he never told the OW that he had them or could have the possibility of having it. I said so you omitted this to her....what do you think she omitted to you. I hear alot of the importance of testing...but the truth is that most people on this site have been having unprotected sex with their WS before they ever knew that there was betrayal. Therefore they could not avoid the exposure...yes there is a STRONG responsibility once you do know but most times it is then to late. Very sad.

Sorry LS,
What can I say. My W told me point blank that if I didn''t get STD, she would hav enever told me about her infidelity.
I feel sorta doubly betrayed if you know what i mean.
SHE WASN'T GOING TO TELL ME!
All Blessings,
Jerry

LT
The problem with herpes is that yes someone can have it and not know and then pass it on. Herpes can be transmitted when no outbreak is occuring from I have read. My spouse started thinking that he did not have herpes and maybe I had done the cheating. So we went and had what they call a western blot test done. Its a blood test that can be done that can tell you what type of herpes and if you have it. My spouse started turning it around on me and there was no way I was going with that one. He had no choice but to get tested.

However from what I have also understood from reading and someone please correct me if I am wrong but condoms are not 100% fool proof with this stuff either because if contact between the infected area which can be anywhere below not just on the penis but the perineum can carry the virus"as outbreaks can happen virtually anywhere" if you come into contact with that virus you can contract it. So condoms are not 100% guarantee with this stuff. Also it can lay dormant for many years from what I have been told. That's why my spouse swears he hasn't been with each other which means it took over 17 years for me to have an outbreak. Very frustrating and very sad and heartbreaking.

Losttiger,

That is quite weird, that you could have the virus for so many years, and your H has not contracted it with unprotected sex with you, or shown no signs of it.

When was your H with OW?

Lady

Yes...I feel the same way. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I told my H I'm not discussing this with him any longer.
I will go through the treatment process with him and talk to the Dr's only, and I will not accept his manipulations, of the whole thing.

Blessings to us Shinethrough.

Lady

jtdmine...is that how you found out your H had herpes with the western blot test?

Lady

HSV and HPV are difficult subjects because one cannot feel protected by using condoms, since the virus can easily reside in uncovered areas. It is quite common to see these lesions in the area over the pubic bone, just lateral to the labia or even further south. All are areas not covered by the condom. Hence it is easy for any WS to try to turn things around and try to redirect the blame...

Lady,

Yes that is how we found out. My spouse had some issues down below but docs always attributed it to something else. When I started getting that gut feeling about him I started looking at herpes. Didn't do anything at that time, stupid me.

We found out for sure when I had my first outbreak and I went in to be tested and discovered mine through swab test. I then informed my spouse and at first he was very sorry, then after awhile he started turning it around on me. So I knew that I have not been with anyone so I insisted that we both get that test. And yes that is the only way unless you are having an outbreak.

That is true Stu. I will never feel protected from my H if we ever have SF again. What do I do. If we are committed to saving this marriage, I will be taking a huge chance of getting the STD from him. Is it worth it? I can't believe I have to make a decision like that.

And it's possible that I may have contracted it and don't know it yet because his day with the prositute was in Aug, and I slipped with him once (without protection) in Nov.
while awaiting HIV result. So it's been 2 months since my exposure. I had no idea he had any lesions on him at the time, and of course he didn't tell me. So should I call that "sexual assault?" The lesions had to have been visible on Nov 1st, some are very grown out.

Lady

I see jtdmine, did you know about his affair before your breakout?

I wonder if Losttiger could have her H take the western blot test.

Lady

Lady,
I still have no proof and no admittance of a physical affair. According to the docs my spouse could have had this over 17 years ago before we met.

If she can find a doc willing to do it or a clinic then yes she can have him take the test

Hi all
H was with the OW from March till June. Thought it was a long distance thing so SF was not very often. Funny when he went to the dr. they told him that if he didnt have symptoms not to do the test. (i think there is a blood test) They really didnt want to test him for more than HIV because he had no symptoms. STUPID. So he was never tested. The NP told me that herpes is very easy to catch....they had a girl in who was a virgin and contracted it. It has been so long now that who gave it to who is useless, but i was wondering if he could have it and never get symptoms. And if it was possible for him NOT to have it even thought we have been having SF for many years....does this make sense.

Not everyone exposed to HSV contract the dz, at least, they don't always develop Sx. My W has had HSV I "oral" ever since she was a child, through all of our contact I've never developed any lesions. Again it depends heavily on one's immune system.

LS, take comfort in the fact that the dz's that can transmit despite a condom protection are usually nothing life threating, usually just a nuisence to live with. If you're committed to working out the relationship and let say the dz is HSV, I would simply assume that you're gonna be exposed but not necessarily develop it, and avoid intimacy when there is active lesion (this will reduce tx risk)o/w nothing else more to do to protect against it, it's not worth the headache of worrying about it all the time... Just like me.

If the dz is HPV and you're gonna have a Hysterectomy anyways, I would take out the cervix to reduce your risk of complication from HPV.

As far as HIV, it is harder than most people think to transmit the dz. Especially for a guy from a girl. First the woman has to have high viral load at the time of contact for enough of the virus to survive in the secretions and since the guy usually does not receive large amount of secretions (it is the otherway around) the guy's chance of actually contracting the dz is relatively lower than most people imagine. I know people who have been stuck with HIV infected needles or sprayed by bodyfluids of high viral load individuals into their eyes and do not contract the dz. So try not to worry too much...

Oh...I wonder if it is possible that virus might have spread more easily and caused the outbreaks for you if sex was occuring into a broken area of your skin, even a rash or something. I wonder if that may have been what happened in your case. That is the only thing I could think of as a reason he doesn't show the manifestation of an outbreak and you do. Or that your immunity system is lower than his. I wonder if you built up you immunity system that might help with fewer to no breakouts.

Lady

Okay all of your with STD's and possibly me now...

I hope Dr. LemonMan isn't watching... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I wrote earlier in a post that my H had Hep C for many years. An uncurable disease. They now have tradition med, Pegintron, and interferon to try and heal it, but usually does not work. 50/50 chance. This med my H could not take because he became very ill taking it after 6 wks. It consists of a shot once a week for a year, and pills every day, it's like chemo, only through shot. He contracted Hep C many many years ago through IV drug use (I do hear it can be contracted through sex too, but not usually, usually only blood contact).

My H is now cured of Hep C btw. It's been Eradicated. Lemonman doesn't believe me, but I can send all the paperwork showing it is eradicated if he would like. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This is what I did, plus alot prayers. Being that I am a studier of herbs, not an herbalist. I decided to give him Pau d' Arco. And H is now healed of it.

This is the description out of my wonderful book by Louise Tenney M.H. (Master Herbalist), Todays Herbal Health.

Pau d'arco, also known as taheebo, is an herb grown in South America. it is a powerful antibiotic with virus-killing properties. Its compounds seem to attack the very cause of disease. It is said that one of this herbs main actions is to put the body into a defensive posture, giving the energy needed to resist disease. Pau d'arco has been used on cancer patients in some hospitals in South America with great success. It contains a high amount of iron which aids in the proper assimilation of nutrients and the elimination of wastes.

Its Primary Applications....

Blood Purifier
Pain (relieves)
Cancer (all types)
Skin Cancer


Secondary Applications....

Anemia
Asthma
Colitis
Diabetes
Eyelids (paralysis)
Gastritis
Hemorrhages
Hodgkin's disease
Leukemia
Lupus
Osteomyelitis
Polyps
Psoriasis
Spleen infections
Ulcers
Arteriosclerosis
Bronchitis
Cystitis
Eczema
Fistulas
Gonorrea
Hernias
Infections
Liver ailments
Nephritis
Parkinson's disease
Prostatitis
Rheumatism
Syphillis
Varicose ulcers

I believe God used this herb to heal my H of Hep C. And it looks like it can/could heal many STD's. I am going to try this on my H again for HPV/GW. It is best to get this herb in it's true form, not capsule, or tablets. It can be found at many Health Food Stores. Fortunately we have a Health food store here that sells it in it's whole form, but some may only sell it in capsules. It is then made into a tea. Not a bad taste either. And mixed with honey.

I am wondering if this would heal many of you out there.

If you would like to try it let me know, and I will tell you how to measure and cook it up.


Lady

I'll try it, but please don't let LM know.

Okay, I won't tell him.

Seem like LM is here sporadically. In his absence I'm happy to fill in as the house MD here on any related issues.
Someone suggested starting a thread on health and STD, if that does take place I'm also happy to contribute...

I think LM posts mainly while he is on call, and waiting around.

Thanks for your help on all of this stuff. I think it is an area that is overlooked on this board. No one wants to think about this stuff.

Thanks to LadySheep also. I know it was hard to post about this, but I'm encouraged by all of the people reading this thread (although maybe not posting). Last night it was 1300 and today it was 1800.

I didn't know you were an MD until recently. I'm so glad you are here stu. It's great, now we have 2 in house MD's. Your wisdom and knowledge is very much appreciated. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I just can't talk herbs in front of LM, he gets all uptight. I hope your not the same way.

Lady

I'm quite open about it, my philosophy is if it works and make the pt feel better then the outcome is more important than the academics.

Stu
I was wondering something. Are my kids at risk if lets say my spouse and I have intercourse, and later in the night one of our kiddos has a bad dream and climb into bed with us. Or do they have to actually touch the area skin to skin?

I think that LM doesn't want folks to try natural remedies instead of accepted therapy.

LadySheep -
I do hope your husband is cured. My son's girlfriend's dad died at 35 of Hep-C. He did the interferon thing and some other drug. Then he got so bad that he had a liver transplant. But the disease came back in his new liver. It was very sad.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That is very sad Believer. That his disease went that far.
The disease probably came back to his new liver because the Hep C was still in his blood, therefore making it's way to his new liver. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The Pau d' Arco wipes the virus out of the blood and the body, therefore it can no longer infect the liver.

My H is healed. After the Pau d' arco, the first test showed he had no viral load (his priors to this was about 25,000), he still had to do a year of tests to make sure it was gone. All tests every 3 months came back neg. No more Hep C. And written as "eradicated" All of his Dr's were amazed, and so am I.

Prior to the healing, he had Hep C for 20 yrs, a fatty liver, but it had not yet turned to cirosis thankfully.

Lady

Depending on the dz you're talking about, but most of your STD's that you're talking about are probably gonna be in the area that is covered by clothing and in any case, intact skin of the body eg. legs, feet and arms are not really susceptible to most diseases. Your kids are fairly safe...

LS,
I'm not a hepatologist but I know a fair amount about hepatitis, esp Hep B. Hepatitis can certainly be suppressed by your immune system most people exposed to Hep B are in this category. They are considered eradicated and immune from the dz, but the key word is "suppressed". But this is much more rare for Hep C and if your H is considered eradicated I would still recommend periodic testing (semiannual/annual) of the LFT's and RNA load to make sure that it stays dormant. I don't know what his GI/hepatologist says...

Stu, I just talked to him, and yes he does have the annual tests done now as well by his GI. He said he just had his first annual done not long ago, and still eradicated. Dr. said he has a normal liver <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Lady

Great, can't ask for anymore than that...

Yes...I know Stu, I thought it was 25 yrs he had had Hep C, but he corrected me and said it was 20 yrs. That's an aweful long time to have lived with it, and thankfully it didn't turn to cirosis, it may have been harder to heal that way. We have a nurse friend who got Hep C while on her job, she got stuck with a needle by accident by an infected person. She went through the Pegintron treatment for 1 yr, but it didn't work. She has cirosis now.

Lady

unfortunately a lot of Hep C stories are like your nurse friends. There are mutations in this virus just like any other virus and some respond to the chemo while others don't, can't tell until one tries it. Your H had a liver biopsy that confirmed the absence of fibrosis or cirrhosis? In early cirrhosis, you can't tell from blood work...

Hi Stu, yes my H had a biopsy about 2 1/2 yrs ago, prior to his Pegintron treatment. At that time, he had some fibrosis. But he hasn't had one since his healing. I would assume that the fibrosis on the liver cannot progress if the Hep C is not there. What do you think?

Lady

I agree, if hep C RNA is low or undetectable then no damage is being done to the liver. And from what I know fibrosis can slowly improve over time as long as further damage is prevented. His chances are excellent.

I would like to pipe in... First of all to bump this thread back up, second to share a little story.

When I was 18 I had a regular pap done and when I got my results, the nurse said that I didn't test negative for chlamidia (spelling??). She explained that I didn't test positive either, but probably just because there weren't enough "bad" cells. I rescheduled another pap to have the test redone.

In the meantime I called two ex-boyfriends to let them know that they should get tested as I must have caught it from one of them (my boyfriend at the time was **very inexperienced**). Both REFUSED to get tested, saying that they didn't have it. I tried to explain that I either got it from one of them or I got it before I was with either of them, in which case I gave it to them. GEEZ!

So I went back for the re-test and it turns out the the doctor used the wrong swab the first time, that's why it wasn't negative. She re-did the test and I was fine, but still in shock from the fact the my two exes would be so naive as to believe that they couldn't possibly have something, even though their ex-girlfriend was calling to tell them to get tested.

I always thought that I wouldn't get anything either, but it turns out I was wrong, and that I just got lucky.

Cat_A It is amazing how some can be so in denial of STD's.
I thought I was on top of it after my H ONS, I refused sex, except the once...dummy me, in order to get all STD test done. I demanded we go and get tested. And then low and behold Genital Warts show up on him 4 months after. Well I'm sure they showed up sooner, but he never told me about them, the Dr's, NP, and PA had to tell me. So it goes to show STD's happen, and some cannot even be protected with a condom.

Lady

Hi LS,
Glad this thread is getting the exposure it deserves and thanks for starting it. I mentioned many times about STD's in my threads but most ignored it. Understandably, as most people who JFO were more concerned about saving their marriage then preserving their health.
I do think strongly that there should be a TOPIC forum to deal specifically with STD's and health concerns from an A.
Many could be educated in this and we are even fortunate enough to have MD's posting. That could be very useful in clearing up a lot of misconceptions. Take me for instance, married 32 years with a grown family. I knew nothing of STD's. They were somebody else's problem. Never would I have to deal with such a thing.(HA) wHOSE GOT EGG ON THEIR FACE NOW?
All Blessings,
Jerry

Well I was cheated on a long time ago by a boyfriend, and got Herpes. I only discovered I got it, as if you get a PRIMARY outbreak - it's a severe outbreak that you only get once...and then possible repeats of. If you had it for years you don't all of a sudden get a primary outbreak. A promary outbreak takes place 6-8 weeks after contracting it...he still to this day believes i gave it to him...

The truth is - most people don't get primary outbreaks, and some outbreaks are so small and rare, that they don't even know they have herpes. Also, STD tests will MISS herpes unless there is an active outbreak...and some people, like me, only get it once a year or less...but throughout the year you may have some asymptomatic shedding, where you are contagious without having an outbreak.

The stats are 1 of 5 people have genetal herpes, and ony 50% of those people KNOW they have it...that's a scary stat.

My husband has never had an outbreak he knows of...but he has been sleeping with me for 8 years now. He has either never caught it due to the rarity of my outbreaks, or has it - but is one of those who has no symptoms...I asked him if he thought of that before sleeping with OW when he told her he was clean.

He had forgotten thatI had it, and it was a possibility he had..and that possibly he could have given it to her...it made him realize what she could have given to him, even though she said she was "clean"

Herpes however can be detected with a blood test...but it isnt given to you unless you ask - the swab will come back negative if you do not have an outbreak...so many people have herpes but think they are clean because the tests came back negative...

This is sadly a HUGE reality of STDs that people just don't realize...

I did catch an STD from my first H had no sypmtoms and only found out about it when I went for a checkup shortly after separating from my H.

About the Harley`s not putting much emphasis on STD testing I figure it is because most of us do not find out about the A right away. Most of us have already had sex with with our partners by the time we find out about the A. With my second H it was three years before I found out. Much much too late.

I did insist on H getting tested for everything HIV included...not me but HIM. I was already humiliated enough. Fortunately all came back negative.

I will never understand why my H refused to wear a condom...the OW asked him too but he refused. I was eight months pregnant at the time of his A and we were still having sex. And my present H knew that I had contracted an STD once before from my first H when he also cheated on me. But still present H insisted on unprotected sex. It boggles my mind.

Dorry, I know it took a lot of courage for you to come on here and admit that you have an STD, and I commend you for that. It is good that your outbreaks are rare, nonetheless I'm sure you were devastated when you found out.

I am wondering though...has your H thought of getting the blood test for Herpes to see if he has it? Has he been tested for all STD's since he was with OW?


So true.

Lady

Daisy, it boggles my mind too. I guess it goes along with the fog. "They think it will never happen to them." senerio. And trust me every night my H has to put medicine on those ugly looking things....he is reminded of his infidelity with that wh____....and he hates it! It really bothers him!

Look at Shinethrough, his wife caught HPV/GW from OM, but she didn't get any symptoms. Then she had sex with her H and gave the STD to him, he got the symptoms. It happens.

Lady

Lady,

I was tested a month after I was with OM...and need to do my one year post HIV test this month.

H has never had a test for Herpes...and it's been 6 months since he was with OW, and he has yet to go get tested. I made him an appointment when we reconciled which he missed, and reminded him once since then..

I haven't brought it up with him again...

I wonder if that's why he wont have sex with me though - in 4 months we have had it 3 times??? he told me more than anything was his fear of STD's when I came back...he kept pushing it and yelling about it and being so angry...but now on his side...he puts it off, he avoids it...

I keep meaning to bring something up about it...but I am also sick of being the one who has to organize, make appointments...I want it to be a priority for him...also we aren't in the best place right now - and bringing it up might cause WW3 since it is about the A's...so I am going to find a way to bring it up in the new year. I will also mention to him to see if he could have a blood test for herpes.

I asked him once if he would tell OW if he had it..if he came up positive. He told me no - she was in the past...and he wanted to never talk to her again...I wasn't pleased...but it would be his decision...

Ladysheep,
I was also pregnant (3 mos) when my husband started the A, and he did not wear condoms, and we continued to have sex throughout the pregnancy. The A lasted until a month after I delivered a healthy baby. When I asked how he could risk his baby's and my health by not wearing a condom, he did not have a good answer for me. He said that he thought she was clean and knew that I had tested fine when I had all the STD/AIDS tests at the beginning of my pregnancy. He had also gone to his MD after the A had been going on for a few months and got tested--everything came back negative. She became pregnant and got an abortion, and then went on BC pills. After that, he says he did use a condom but I don't think that he did (Did not learn his lesson--in the fog, I guess).

He said that he was tested for STDs again after the A was over and the tests were also negative. I have not gone since I found out about the A. Should I go get tested or is it enough that he has been tested fine? He says that I should get tested for my own peace of mind. How often should you get tested if the results are negative?

Dorry, now you have me wondering if this is his problem with withdrawing from SF too. I hope you can talk to him and encourage him to get tested. I don't know why he would avoid it, when he was so adamant about you getting tested before.
It is extremely important that he get tested. And if everything comes out neg., it will be a relief on both of you, and may breakdown the barrier in the SF dept.

But you do have a point, why has he avoided it?

Lady

Mamafish, It's extrememly important that you SEE the test results. Did he just tell you, or did he show you the test results?

Remember Mamafish, that STD's can show up later, such as 3-4 months later such as GW and Herpes. The Dr's office does not do tests on those. Unless there is a manifestation of them you don't know you have them. Be aware of that. Your H PA ended in Sept. almost 4 months ago. Look at his genitals. Do you see any unusual lumps, bumps, or sores.

Yes....I think you should get tested immediately too. Papsmear also.

My H told me he used a condom too. He still caught GW's.

Lady

Ladysheep,

No, I did not see the test results, he just told me that he had them done when he was last at the doctor's. This was only when I had asked about it. I am going on his word only, which is not saying much.

So, I will go get tested and get a Pap smear. Is there a test for GW/Herpes if there is no outbreak? I have not noticed anything unusual on him, but will check further. Should he go get tested again since it has been a few months?

This is a new area for me also. Never thought I would be asking about any of this. I have put off going to my dr's because of embarassment, but realize that I have to go do it for myself.

Thanks for the good advice.

Mamafish, he says he got the tests done after the affair was over. You need to ask him for the test results in writing.
If he did get them, he just needs to request copies of the results from his Dr. Tell him this is important for you to see them. I would not just go on his word.


Certain types of HPV can cause cervical cancer, that is why a papsmear is needed. A Dr. can see if GW are present, you can tell also if they are on the outside. But if nothing is visible, the HPV can still hang out in the cells of the cervix without your knowing it. That is why a papsmear is recommended. You will have to tell your Dr. that your H had an affair and you are there to make sure you have not contracted any STD's.



Yes...It is embarrasing I know. I cried alot with the Dr's, thankfully they were very understanding.

The only thing I don't know is if your OBGYN will give you a papsmear, being that you just had a baby 6 months ago? It's possible.

There is no other way of a man knowing he has HPV unless he develops the genital warts.

All other tests can be done at your Dr's or at your local Health Dept. Tell them you want every STD test they can give you done.

Mamafish, I don't believe your H got tested unless you come on here and tell me you saw the test result in writing. The reason I say this is because, the HIV tests alone consist of usually 2 test 3 months apart. So if he had one done in Sept or Oct at the end of his affair, he must have just gotten the next HIV around now (3 months later). My H got his 1st HIV done on Sept 29, His 2nd 2 weeks ago, he will not get the result until next week. I got my 1st HIV on Oct 1, my second will be next week, and it takes 3 weeks to get that result back. Do you see what I mean? Thats why I am having a hard time believing your H got tested after his affair.

If he didn't he will need to be tested for all. Tell him, I'm sorry no SF until he is tested. Protect yourself.

Lady

The only thing I don't know is if your OBGYN will give you a papsmear, being that you just had a baby 6 months ago? It's possible.

I believe it is standard to do a papsmear 6 months after delivery

Ladysheep,

I will ask him for the test results. I am sure that he will not have them in writing so I will tell him to request them from his doctor if he did in fact have the tests done. I will also ask him what tests he had done, now that you have given me the information about the timeframe (the two HIV tests). Since I am not confident that he did have the tests done (I know that he did go to the dr's several times as he has Type II diabetes and has periodic blood tests done, so he may have asked them to do this during one of these visits), if he cannot provide this, I will insist on him getting the same STD tests.

As for me, I will bite the bullet and make an appt with my OB/GYN. I think that I may have had a Pap Smear at my 6 wks post-partum appointment, but can check on that and have it redone. I know that this dr's visit was on 9/8, we had SF on either 9/8 or 9/9, but he had SF with the OW a few times that weekend until 9/12. And we have had SF since then. So I would still need to get a repeat Pap smear done anyway. The question may be if the insurance would cover it. I'm not sure if insurance will cover the STD testing either.

If our tests both come back negative, should we have the tests repeated in the near future to make sure, or would that mean that all is well? I know that the HIV test will require the two tests.

Thanks for your help! Will let you know how it goes.

As embarrassed as you might feel for asking to get the tests done, I'm so proud of all of you who have done it anyway!

My mom taught me about STD's when I was 16 (or what she knew about them anyway) and we got to ask questions in health class at school, so I knew a lot about them when I needed the information (as a sexually active teenager). I guess I should consider myself lucky that I had two sources (plus the internet) to get the information.

Also, my school consellor brought me to the BC clinic once when the condom broke (I was going on BC pills but hadn't filled the prescription yet - learned my lesson!). Lots of support and help for issues like STDs and teen pregnancy.

I hope that this thread will also help to encourage parents of teenagers to have talks with their kids about STDs. Important for WSs/BSs, but also important for the kids, as even if they wait for marriage to have sex, they could still end up in your shoes.

Hi Mamafish,

If your insurance won't cover tests. I believe your local Health Dept. STD Clinic tests for free. I think they might be able to provide a papsmear also. You will need to ask about that. It would be helpful for you to call and ask them about all the test services they provide, and any other questions you might have. The important thing is that you get the tests done, and not take any chances. In todays world you just can't be too careful.

Most tests will not need to be repeated, except the HIV. But they will explain everything probably better than I.

I will be getting another HIV after 6 months, but it's not usually recommended, I just want to be sure....you know.

I'm sorry we find ourselves in this situation Mamafish.
It's been hard enough dealing with H infidelity, and now having to worry about STD's. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Lady

I've read this string with interest and some alarm. Last year when I went to my gynologist after my husbands affair she did run some tests, I'm not sure which ones and I didn't get any results back other than the pap. She gave me a lab slip to get an HIV test if I wanted to but said she wouldn't realy worry about it because the woman my H had the affair with was not a prostitute so the chances were slim that there was a problem. I never went to lab and stopped insisting on condums after the dr. visit. I complained about problems in our sex life and she gave me a sample of Zoloft saying it was for pre-minapause problems. When I showed the sample to my daughter she said it is an antidepressant. Dr. Harley said to change drs. Iv'e been to this one for 15 years but will see a new one this year. I didn't even think about making my husband get tested. Of course we haven't had sex in 4 months now. The stress got too great in a very slow recovery. When I refused sex my husband threatened that he would go to a prostitute this time because an affair was too hard but that he would have sex. That realy made me want to do it. This thread makes me resolve to make him go for testing before we resume sex, if our realtionship makes it.

It also makes me conserned for my vergin daughters. I wish the law required testing before marriage.

Hi rb123,
I understand, this has all been very alarming to me too, and stressful, to say the least. I'm very concerned that your H would threaten to go to a prostitute. First thing...you must have felt terrible when he said that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Second, he needs to realize the high risk he would put himself in for contracting a disease, and then bringing it home to you. That can come with any... prostitute or not...really.

Most people that have many partners or even a few don't get tested, so he doesn't know what he is getting if he has sex with other women period. Many people never get tested for HIV and can carry it for a few yrs without seeing symptoms, that is frightening to me. They just don't think of it, or think that the other persons are to high class, not persay prostitues, and they think they are clean...they could never have it. Many people with HIV or other STD's could tell you the same thing, they thought it could never happen to them, they were not that type. My H said the same thing, says he can't believe he has VD. I watched a video in the clinic last time we were there. There was a young man, he had sex with an older woman. He come from a good family, he didn't know he had HIV/Aids until he developed what he thought was a cold, and then it turned to pneomonia, it was then that he found out. I didn't watch the rest of it, because I then had to see the workers. But to me it was the reality, and my H GW are the reality. My H didn't watch the video, he sat and read his book. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> I guess he knows it all. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Anyhow....You could find out exactly what tests were given by contacting your Gyn. I hope you will reconsider and get all tests done. I would highly recommend your H does too, but if he refuses, it is still important that you do. If anything it will give you peace of mind if everything comes back neg.

Yes, I do to. But even though the law doesn't require it, it is the wise thing to do anyway.

Lady

Stu,

Are you still around? I have a medical question for you if you are. H and I are truly recovered and doing great (3 years post d-day). We did have sex right after D-day, but the STD factor seemed pretty irrelevant at the time because he'd been having sex with other women and me at the same time off and on for years. No prostitutes (not the kind that get paid anyway...lol!).

I developed several strains of genital warts over the years during stressful times. I was told (by my old GYN) that I could carry those for years in my body without symptoms and then suddenly have an outbreak so I was not as suspicious as I should have been.

After D-day, three years ago, I developed yet another strain about 6 months into recovery. It was the worst one yet and I was SO upset! I quickly learned that visible warts were NOT the ones that caused cervical cancer and that was a relief. Because of a compromised immune system (Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for 12 years), I really struggled to beat the virus. My GYN's approach was to beef up my immune system with vitamin and mineral supplements. It took two years for them to go away. I'm not even sure that they are completely gone now, but she didn't mention them at my last exam and said things "looked good."

About a year ago I had a pap test that was not abnormal, but still reported something about cellular changes that suggested I'd been fighting "something". I don't recall what the changes were called. It was still considered normal, but for some reason that my GYN could not figure out (God's grace...lol!), the lab had gone ahead and run the HPV test! I was so thankful because my insurance would not allow me to request this test!

The results were that I had NO high risk HPV types. Now my question...finally! Does that mean that I don't harbor those types or that I didn't show signs of them in that moment in time when the swab was done? Could I still end up with a positive test at another time (assuming my H stays faithful and he is my only partner)?

I've wondered about this. I asked my GYN, but didn't feel I got a clear answer and it could be because medical science doesn't know that answer right now. I know that they used to believe that the HPV virus remained dormant in the body forever, but my GYN (she's at the top of her field...just excellent) said that it is now believed that some people DO beat the virus completely. It seems that for everything we KNOW about HPV, there are three more things we don't.

Anyway...if you have any answers for me I'd appreciate hearing from you! I meant to get a clearer answer from her, but you know how those office visits go so darned fast...at least from the patient's perspective!

Thank you!

Stillwed

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You can go to www.thehpvtest.com which provides some good information on test results. The basis answer to your question is if the HPV test is normal, but the PAP test might be questionable, then both the PAP and HPV test should be repeated in a year. If the PAP and HPV both were normal, then the HPV test would not need to be repeated for 3 years. I think the conclustion that can be reached is that the test can only measure active cells and there is the possibilty of the virus being dormant.

I'm not a doctor, but I enjoy reading and researching medical information.

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Does that mean that I don't harbor those types or that I didn't show signs of them in that moment in time when the swab was done? Could I still end up with a positive test at another time (assuming my H stays faithful and he is my only partner)?

Sorry this took so long, I've been trying to keep myself busy to calm my own anxieties...
Anyways, your question is a good one. When they run these DNA tests for the viral strains they can only look for DNA from cells that were actually collected from the specimen. Of course the specimen gives a very good representation of the cells from the transition zone on your cervix, perhaps ~95-98% but it is not 100%. It is after all a "screening". The low risk types means that they are not as aggressive and less chance, cause less changes/damages to your cells, therefore less risk of dysplasia.
The answer to your question of whether you could harbor the high risk type and not show up is that: it is possible but a relatively low likelihood.

Stu,

Thanks so much! That really does give me a sense of relief! I appreciate your time.

If there is anything I can do to help with your anxiety, let me know. I don't have any medical experience...just a therapist who keeps trying to get me to go to school to become one...lol! My main way of helping others right now is to help them understand their Enneagram personality types and to do personal work around that. I'm a type One, the Perfectionist, so you can imagine how this HPV thing nagged at me! I've really had to learn to mellow out!

Take care and again...thanks!

Stillwed

Stillwed,
You're welcome. Answering some questions on here makes me feel helpful to the board that has helped me... Just giving back.
Quick question for you since you're good with personalities...
based on my sitch listed here could you deduce what she might be thinking or doing?

I'm waiting for her to open up a file I sent her to spy on her computer to see if she is in fact having another relationship... Eventhough all the signs point to it, I need proof.

I had a lump appear on me last Monday, on the inside of my upper thigh near my genitals. I was freaking!
I couln't tell if it was a GW or a pimple. I did an experiment. I began using my sons baby wipes ( pampers with aloe unscented) and taking Echinecea (2 a day). And I drank 2 cups of pau d' arco tea a day. It is going away and almost gone, so I think it was a pimple or cyst maybe because pus came out (sorry for the graphics). But I don't think pus comes out of a GW. Thats all I have had so far.

Lady

Hi again Stu,

For fear of threadjacking LadySheep's STD thread, I'm going to create a new one just for this converstation. I'll title it "Stu...". The very best thing we can do is to figure out your personality type first. We might also be able to figure out hers, but it is harder to type someone else for sure! It's harder to type when someone is very unhealthy too.

See you on the other thread. I'm usually over in "In Recovery". This place is so much busier than that one!!

Stillwed

Dear LadySheep,

I'm glad that turned out to just be a pimple or something like that. About 6 months after d-day, much of my stress started showing in my physical body. I had an "outbreak" that honestly looked like herpes. I even had pain spreading down into my thighs from my buttocks. However, it all went away, never to return so far.

I was so worried that I insisted that my H be tested for Herpes. There is a newer and accurate blood antibody test for herpes now, but it is not usually run when you go in and ask to be tested for STDs. My H's test was completely negative. Since I've only been with him for the past 30 years, I made the assumption that I don't have it either. That is possibly not a wise assumption, but I've had no symptoms since that suggest otherwise.

Hope yours is just stress related too!

Stillwed

Hi stillwed,

Yeah, I think it is stress related because I did breakout with pimples (bigger than usual) on my face too.

Stillwed, I'm wondering if the things I used would work for you when you have an outbreak. These all have lots of vitamins and minerals.

1. Echinacea - immune builder (herb)
2 Pau D' Arco - virus killer (herb)
3. Baby wipes (pampers aloe vera unscented)

My H is using all his prescribes topical meds, creams, and soaps. But I don't think they are going to work.

Lady

Dear Ladysheep,

Thanks for sharing your alternative remedies with me. I have vulvar pain syndrome and have to be very careful what I use. My GYN doesn't even want me shampooing in the shower for fear of adding insult to injury with shampoo residue! It's a pain in more than one way!! I have to be very careful about soaps and such.

I can't take Echinacea because of the CFS. For some reason most CFSers can't take that particular herb. I will look into the other one though!! Thank you!

Your H might need to beef up his immune system so that his body can fight the virus. These viruses generally burn themselves out fairly quickly in a healthy immune system, but it can take a year!! That is what is considered fairly quickly...and that is without treatment. Stress can really do a number on your immunity. I wish I could remember the entire list my GYN gave me of supplements to be sure and include a day. I know a few:

200 mcg Selenium (no more)
1000 mg Vitamin C
100 mg B6
Natural Vitamin E...I remember her wanting me to take more than I could. I was bruising easily from too much of it because I was taking it along with fish oil I think. I believe she said 800 IU.

These lesions are going to take awhile to go away. What cream did they give him to use? It's a very slow process from what I understand.

Stillwed

LS,
a good way to tell a GW from a cyst or pimple is that GW is always flesh colored, and nontender. most of the time it will be a bit rough on top. A cyst or pimple usually will have a stage where it is tender and slightly or insensely red, but always smooth on top.

SW, a natural supplement called "Wellness Formula" is one I've recommended to ppl. Taste bitter but very good immune booster. I've had people take 3 tabs every 3hrs in the beginning of their cold or flu sx and have the sx go away in 1-2 days. I've personally heard several doctors recommended to their pts that's why I've recommended to my pts. I've only seen it at Mother's market.

Hey everyone - my tests for Reiter's syndrome came back negative. Thanks Lemonman! (for saying not to worry too much about getting everything I read about). I was really SHOCKED - I had it in my head that I had it for sure, and would pass it on to any future partners.

I am so happy for you Believer. That is an answer to prayer and a huge relief I am sure.

This thread should be tagged and placed on top of the General Question secton.

A huge relief is an understatement. I had read all of the stuff on line about the disease - you get arthritis, conjuntivitis, urethritis, cervicitis - LOTS of itis's. But the WORSE thing is that a small percentage of folks get pericarditis - that one affects your heart.

Yep - I agree LM. No one likes to think about it. But while folks here are doing all of the Plan A'ing, if they are having SF with the WS, they may be, like you say, bathing in SOMEONE'S seminal pool.

My WH had sex with both the OW and I up until D-day. So I had no way of protecting myself. And when I asked if he had used protection, he said that he had. I found out from OW's husband (when he was frantic about her getting PG), that they had not used any BC or protection.

Thats good Believer, I'm happy for you.

Lady

Whew! {{{{{Believer}}}}}}}

Finally read thru 14 pages of this thread. My question is what is the difference between herpes type 1 and type 2? If the two types are interchangable e.g. type 1 can spread to the genitals during OS and presumably to the mouth from the genitals, then how can they know which is type 1 and which is type 2?

I have recurring mouth sores that are very painful and I have low energy during the outbreaks. I suffer from the lip cold sores about once in 5 yrs - but only recently sort medical attention for the mouth sores because of the frequency of the occurrence and thought it was too severe to be ulcers. The doctor said it was likely herpes type 1. he took a swab. I have been too cowardly to call for the results - though I can't quite see how they know the difference between type 1 and type 2.

AN

Stu wrote:



Thanks Stu! I'll look into this. It's not something I'm familiar with, but we do have an excellent healthfood store near us.

Anyname,

My youngest son has mouth ulcers too. We finally took him to an infectious disease doc. They cultured and cultured again and never found a darned thing! It was very frustrating. He will still get one in the back of his throat every now and then. They are very painful, turn white and take over a week to heal. He's getting them much less frequently now. They are not a canker sore either. The doc was really stumped. He's been tested a few times for Reiters just to be sure and it's always been negative.

He was thought to have sero-negative rheumatoid arthritis for a couple of years, but the dx was eventually changed to severe fibromyalgia.

Stillwed

Stillwed, your son's ulcers sound like the same thing as I get. The outbreak always starts in the same place with a bump which breaks into ulceration and spreads over the roof of my mouth. It takes most of two weeks to go away and I probably wouldn't have noticed how much it effects me but I swim laps every day and I'm so much weaker during the outbreaks. Like dragging lead weights along the pool. When the doc said herpes my mind immediately thought "which kind?" I read on the internet that herpes can occur inside the mouth. I just don't remember it more recently than a couple of years ago (but then at 53, I can't remember a lot of things clearly). I thought the question of how they know the difference between type 1 & 2 was a good one for the resident docs - and I'm sure one of them will take a stab at it. :-) Is it simply a matter of if it is above the waist it is type 1 and below the waist it is type 2?

AN

Hopefully someone who knows for sure will check in, but I always thought that they were the same virus Herpes Simplex, with different sites where they appeared, and different nerves where they lay dormant.

The only white ulcers I know of inside the mouth are Aphthous Ulcers (canker sores). There is a rare condition called cicatricial pemphigus that causes ulcers in the mouth but it also has other manifestations in other areas of the body. This is so rare we won't go into it.
The aphthous ulcers are painful as heck. I know, I get them. I've found that using colgate tooth paste and brushing gently has helped tremendously. When I used Crest tooth paste I would get then 1-2x a month. now I'll get one maybe every 3-4 months. They are not caused by any virus' that we know of (or can test for). As far as we know they are immune related. For some reason our immune system attacks that area of the mucosa and causes the ulceration. When they do occur, two things are very helpful.
1. Kenalog in Orabase-its a paste that you can put on the lesion to coat it, helps with pain and the inflammation
2. Chlorehexedine mouth rinse-don't know how this one actually works besides having a cleaner mouth but it shortens the duration of the lesions.

As far as HSV I vs II, they are only different genetically. As far as appearance, one cannot distinguish a lesion caused by one from the other.

Stu, thanx for replying. I read on the net that herpes can take place inside the mouth. It's not all that common though. I get the odd mouth ulcers, but these outbreaks are different to an ulcer. It always starts in the same place and kind of errupts from a lump then spreads. The GP gave me anti viral meds for it this time and it stopped the outbreak from developing as badly as usual but didn't cure it entirely. I still haven't called the surgery for the results of the swab. I asked the doc to test it to see if it was HSV 1 or 2, but I am not sure if they can ascertain that from a swab. It's just that I discovered photo's of my H with an Asian girl half his age, on our computer. He said he didn't have sex with her and has stuck to his story for 3 yrs. And I've had the mouth thing for a couple of yrs that I can remember. H sounds believable but you just never know, once you discover they are capable of cheating, you know they are capable of lying about anything. My GP said, "well it's not a problem if you don't have OS". Gulp! (no pun intended) LM is so right to campaign for BSs to think about STDs. STDs didn't cross my mind on d-day or for months afterwards. Anyway thanx for replying. My daughter is a doctor but I wouldn't ask her because firstly she wouldn't know and secondly it's too personal to talk with her about it.

AN

My son noticed that his finally went away each time they were cultured so he actually disturbs them with his toothbrush very gently now when he just can't take it anymore. Then he throws away the toothbrush. Note: He only gets them in the back of his throat so they may not be the same thing. They are white.

I can't recommend this because it seems like a crazy thing to do, but knowing how painful those things are, I thought I'd throw it out there.

I would try chewing on chewable probiotics from the healthfood store. I found those very soothing to some tongue lesions I had. You could also open a capsulated form, put it in warm water, stir and use it to bathe the lesions.

Stillwed

Anyname,
the description of you lesions does seem typical for herpes. Although not common, it definitely can occur inside the mouth. If it occurs frequently, you might consider taking valtrex prophylactically.

There are several different strains of the HPV virus. Some cause the GW, some don't. But strangely enough, the strains that don't cause warts are actually more dangerous as they are related to a higher incidence of cervical cancer. You can have one strain and then be infected with another. About 40% of all people have this virus. I contracted the non-wart strain from my first husband, and then the wart-related strains from my second husband. Just great, huh? So I have a higher risk of cervical cancer AND GW! But my gw's aren't very extreme, not at all noticable, just on the cervix. Treatment is painful and has to be done every few years as they recur. The gyno at first didnt' think they were warts, he said my cervix just looked a little different, like with some extra tiny flaps of skin. But I had him go ahead and do a biopsy and they were gw's. Anyways, just a little more education...

AN - here is a terrific article on the difference.

"GOOD" VIRUS / "BAD" VIRUS
The Truth about HSV-1 and HSV-2

How alike are HSV-1 and HSV-2? In this feature, we look at the latest scientific facts about the two types of herpes simplex virus, as well as social attitudes toward oral and genital herpes.

When many people first tell someone they have genital herpes, they start by comparing the infection to oral herpes, or cold sores. How apt is the comparison? In spite of scientific facts, the social stigma and emotional attitudes surrounding genital herpes can make it hard to compare it objectively with an oral infection that most people casually accept. Following the unspoken assumptions of our society, many people still believe there is a "good" herpes virus-HSV- 1, the usual cause of cold sores-and a "bad" herpes virus-HSV-2, the usual cause of genital herpes.

In this feature, we take a look at HSV- 1 and 2 to see how alike and different the two viral types really are. We asked leading researchers how the two compare in terms of severity, recurrences, and transmission rates. We asked how often each occurs outside its usual site of preference, and how each behaves in the genital area. We questioned how much immunity having one type orally or genitally provides against getting the second type.

In addition, we looked at the way our society views oral and genital herpes. What's behind the very different images the two types carry? And what can we do about it? In an interview, counselors at the National Herpes Hotline suggest ways to help replace judgmental social assumptions with a healthy attitude.

Under a microscope, HSV- 1 and 2 are virtually identical, sharing approximately 50% of their DNA. Both types infect the body's mucosal surfaces, usually the mouth or genitals, and then establish latency in the nervous system. For both types, at least two-thirds of infected people have no symptoms, or symptoms too mild to notice. However, both types can recur and spread even when no symptoms are present.

The primary difference between the two viral types is in where they typically establish latency in the body- their "site of preference." HSV-1 usually establishes latency in the trigeminal ganglion, a collection of nerve cells near the ear. From there, it tends to recur on the lower lip or face. HSV-2 usually sets up residence in the sacral ganglion at the base of the spine. From there, it recurs in the genital area .

Even this difference is not absolute either type can reside in either or both parts of the body and infect oral and/or genital areas. Unfortunately, many people aren't aware of this, which contributes both to the spread of type 1 and to the misperception that the two types are fundamentally different.

"People don't understand that you can have type 1 genitally or orally, that the two types are essentially the same virus,' says Marshall Clover, manager of the National Herpes Hotline." One type is associated with stigma, the other is "'just a cold sore"- our society has a euphemism for it so we don't even have to acknowledge that it's herpes.''

The common myth is that HSV-1 causes a mild infection that is occasionally bothersome, but never dangerous. The reality? HSV-1 is usually mild, especially when it infects the lips, face, or genitals. However, in some cases type 1 can recur spontaneously in the eye, causing ocular herpes, a potentially serious infection which can lead to blindness. In very rare cases HSV- 1 can spread spontaneously to the brain, causing herpes encephalitis, a dangerous infection that can lead to death. HSV-1 is also the usual cause of herpes whitlow, an infection on the finger, and "wrestler's herpes," (herpes gladiatorum) a herpes infection on the chest or face.

The range and potential severity of HSV-1 infections lead some experts to view the virus as more risky than usually perceived. "This is heresy, but I think type 1 is a more significant infection than type 2," says Spotswood Spruance, MD, an oral HSV specialist at the University of Utah. "Type 1, and the morbidity associated with it, are underestimated."

By comparison, HSV-2 is widely believed to be a painful, dangerous infection that affects only people with very active sex lives. The reality? Some 22% of adult Americans from all backgrounds, income levels, and ethnic groups have HSV-2. Like HSV-1, type 2 is usually mild-so mild that two- thirds of infected people don't even know they have it. Type 2 rarely causes complications or spreads to other parts of the body. It is the most common cause of neonatal herpes, a rare but dangerous infection in newborns; however, type 1 causes up to one-third of neonatal infections.

The two types do behave somewhat differently depending on whether they are residing in their site of preference-the mouth and face for HSV-1, and the genital area for HSV-2. But both types are quite common, and under most circumstances neither is a major health threat. That's one reason medical professionals tend to dismiss HSV -2 despite the emotional trauma a diagnosis can cause for a patient.

While HSV can be a frustrating and painful condition for some people, in general the virus is less a medical problem than a social problem. For most of us, genital herpes is no more dangerous than a cold sore.

How Many Outbreaks?
Just how much of a physical problem HSV poses for a person depends largely on three factors. The first is how well the person's immune system is able to control the infection.

Differences in immune response may be the main reason that some people are bothered by frequent cold sores or genital herpes outbreaks while others are not. It's also the reason that both HSV-1 and 2 can pose serious challenges for infants, who have a limited immune response; and for people with compromised immune systems, including people with cancer, AIDS, severe burns, and people taking immunosuppressant medications.

The second factor affecting outbreaks is how long a person has had the infection. Over time, recurrences of both HSV- 1 and 2 tend to decrease, for reasons that aren't entirely clear.

In the case of oral HSV-1, many of the approximately 100 million Americans who are infected acquired the virus when they were children. By the time they're adults, only some 5% of people are bothered enough to consider oral HSV-1 a medical problem, according to Spruance.

On the other hand, almost all of the approximately 40 million Americans infected with HSV-2 acquired the virus as teenagers or adults. In the first year, those who have recurring outbreaks experience an average of four to six episodes. Over time, as with oral infections, the number of outbreaks usually drops off.

A third factor influencing the frequency of HSV -1 and 2 outbreaks is whether the virus is established in its site of preference. While HSV can infect both genital and oral areas, both types cause milder infections when they are away from "home" territory. Outside their site of preference, both type 1 and 2 lose most of their punch.

For example, most people infected with HSV-1 in the genital area have few, if any, outbreaks after the initial episode, far fewer than is typical with either oral HSV-1 or genital HSV-2. While experts estimate that some 30% of genital herpes infections in the United States may be caused by HSV-1, only 2- 5% of recurring genital outbreaks are caused by HSV-1. Research conducted by Lawrence Corey, MD, and colleagues at the University of Washington in Seattle shows that genital HSV-2 recurs 10 times more often than genital HSV-1.

According to a study by Wald et al. (New England Journal of Medicine, 1995), among 110 women with genital herpes, the average number of recurrences per year for those with genital HSV-1 was zero. Other studies have shown an average of about one outbreak per year (Benedetti, Annals of Internal Medicine, 1994).

Similarly, HSV-2 infection in theoral area-outside its site of preference-very rarely causes problems. First of all, oral, HSV-2 infections are rare, for reasons discussed below. But even when an infection occurs, recurrent outbreaks are uncommon. In one study (Lafferty et al., New England Journal of Medicine, 1987), oral HSV-2 recurred an average of 0.01 times a year in newly infected people. "I've never convincingly seen an oral type 2 recurrence," says Spruance.

A possible fourth factor affecting recurrence rate is viral type. According to the Lafferty study, genital HSV-2 infections were the most frequently recurring herpes infections, followed by oral HSV-1, genital HSV-1, and last of all, oral HSV-2.

How Easily Spread?
As a number of readers have attested over the years, many people with genital herpes are at least as concerned about transmission-the likelihood of spreading the virus to a partner-as about their own health. On the other hand, few people with oral herpes, share this concern. Is this because one type is more contagious than the other?

The short answer is no. Both viral types are easily transmitted to their site of preference, and can also be spread to other sites. Both are most contagious during active outbreaks, but are often spread through viral shedding when there are no recognizable symptoms. According to Spruance, people with recurrent oral HSV-1 shed virus in their saliva about 5% of the time even when they show no symptoms. In the first year of infection, people with genital HSV-2 shed virus from the genital area about 6-10% of days when they show no symptoms, and less often over time. (Both of these figures reflect shedding as detected by viral culture.)

From here, however, the question of transmissibility gets more complicated. Acquisition of one type is more difficult-though certainly possible-if you already have the other type. This is because either type, contracted orally or genitally, causes the body to produce antibodies, some of which are active against both HSV-1 and 2. This acquired immune response gives some limited protection if the body encounters a second type. When a person with a prior HSV infection does contract the second type, the first episode tends to be less severe than when no prior antibodies are present.

On a practical level, this means oral HSV-1 is often the most easily acquired herpes infection. Usually the first herpes simplex virus that people encounter, oral HSV-1, is typically spread simply by the kind of social kiss that a relative gives a child. Because children have no prior infection with any HSV type, they have no immune defense against the virus.

By the time they're teenagers or young adults, about 50% of Americans have HSV-1 antibodies in their blood. By the time they are over age 50, some 80-90% of Americans have HSV-1 antibodies.

By comparison, almost all HSV-2 is encountered after childhood, when people become sexually active. Those who have a prior infection with HSV-1 have an acquired immune response that lowers - though certainly doesn't eliminate-the risk of acquiring HSV-2. According to one study (Mertz, Annals of Internal Medicine,1992), previous oral HSV-1 infection reduces the acquisition of subsequent HSV-2 infection by 40%.

A prior infection with oral HSV-1 lowers the risk of acquiring genital HSV-1 even further. Studies show that genital HSV-1 infections almost always occur in people who have no prior infection with HSV of either type (Corey, Annals of Internal Medicine, 1983).

In the absence of prior oral infection, however, HSV-1 spreads easily to the genital area, usually through oral sex. In some countries, such as Japan and parts of Great Britain, genital HSV-1 is as common as genital HSV- 2, or more common.

"Prevalence rates of genital HSV-1 differ based on the practice of oral sex and on the percentage of people who are HSV-1 positive from childhood," explains Anna Wald, MD researcher at the University of Washington at Seattle.

Finally, the question of immunity and HSV types is complicated by an additional issue. Some studies suggest that the ganglia themselves may acquire some immunity to HSV after they are exposed to one viral type.

In the laboratory, infection of ganglia with more than one virus is difficult, suggesting that it may be more difficult to acquire a second HSV type in a location where you already have HSV. A prior genital infection with HSV-1, for example, may give more protection against genital HSV-2 than a prior oral infection with HSV-1.

What does all this mean on a practical level? Let's look at some examples to find out. Say you have genital HSV-1 and your partner has genital HSV-2. If you have unprotected sex, there is a small but real risk that you will get HSV-2, resulting in more outbreaks and more shedding. "We have documented cases where a person acquires HSV-2 after a prior genital HSV- 1 infection," says Wald. "I don't think it happens often, but it does happen."

On the other hand, it's very unlikely that your partner will get genital HSV- 1 from you. "I've never seen a case of a person acquiring HSV-1 on top of HSV-2," says Wald. "It's possible, but it would be unusual."

What if your partner has genital HSV-2 and you perform oral sex on him or her? Will you get HSV- 2 in the mouth? Given the widespread practice of oral sex (some three-quarters of all adults practice it, according to The Social Organization of Sexuality, 1994) and the prevalence of genital HSV-2 infection, you might expect oral HSV-2 to be relatively common. It's not.

According to one study, almost 100% of recognizable HSV-2 infection is genital (Nahmias, Scandinavian Journal of Infectious Diseases Supplement, 1990). One reason is that most adults are already infected with HSV-1 orally, which provides some immunity against infection with HSV 2. Another reason is that oral HSV-2 rarely reactivates, so even if an infection does exist, no one knows.

So far we've been talking about transmission of HSV-1 or 2 from its site of preference. What about transmission from another site? Say you acquire genital HSV-1 through oral sex. Can you spread the virus to a partner through genital sex?

The answer is yes, but probably not as easily as it was spread through oral sex. The main reason is that the virus reactivates and sheds less often outside its site of preference. Only about one quarter of people with genital HSV- 1 shed virus at all in the absence of symptoms, while 55% of people with HSV-2 do (Wald, New England Journal of Medicine, 1995). "Shedding data appear to parallel recurrence data, meaning that people who have a lot of recurrences also have a lot of shedding," says Wald.

While HSV- 1 can be spread from genitals to genitals, "we think it is spread more easily through oral sex because HSV-1 reactivates more frequently in the oral area," says Wald. However, she warns, "transmission of genital HSV-1 during asymptomatic shedding has been documented." In other words, genital HSV-1 can be spread through genital sex, even when there are no symptoms. "Good" Virus/ "Bad" Virus

If HSV infection is as easily transmitted from the mouth as from the genitals, then why do people take steps to prevent genital but not oral infection? Why don't we kiss through dental dams ?

"It's ironic, isn't it?" says Wald. "It's not about health, it's about social acceptability."

Scientists can tell us all day that the main difference between the two viral types is simply their site of preference-whether they typically occur above the waist or below. But the unspoken attitudes of our society send a different message. That's just the problem, social attitudes whisper. Below the waist is bad.

"People think of oral herpes as the "good" herpes and genital herpes as the "bad" kind," says Glover of the National Herpes Hotline. "It's partly that they don't understand the similarities between HSV-1 and 2. But it's also that good and bad is how our culture views sex and our bodies."

The inescapable fact is that HSV-1 is usually spread through contact with infected lips, while HSV-2 usually spread through contact with infected genitals. From a social point of view, the problem is not the disease; it's how you got it.

Whether we like it or not, the social prejudice against genital herpes, no matter which virus causes it, is a reality. "People have more trouble explaining to a new partner that they have genital herpes, even if it's HSV- 1, than if they have a cold sore," says Glover. "Just saying the word "genital" is like an anvil that pulls the sentence down".

Is this topic making you crazy? For people who have trouble dealing with social attitudes toward genital herpes, the blatant double standard society applies to oral herpes can be frustrating, to say the least.

"Talk to a wise friend," suggests Rebecca, a health communication specialist on the National Herpes Hotline. "Join a support group. Find Someone you respect and exchange ideas them. It's always reassuring to see that not everyone lives inside the walls our society builds around sexual issues and realities. "

It's also worth hoping that new research on the similarities between HSV-1 and 2, as well as increased public education about genital herpes, can help lower the level of misunderstanding about both types of the virus. Today, the greatest difference between HSV- 1 and 2 appears to be the way we think about them. Tomorrow, that may change....

Dorry, thanx for posting the article. This article should be kept on record. I know of another BS who will be very interested to read it.

AN

Ladysheep -

I ran across this thread a few days ago, and have finally found the time to post.

I am familiar with HPV. I was, at the very least, exposed to it by the girl I was dating prior to my wife. We actually both agreed to get tested before we had any sex, and we both came back clean.

Shortly before (or after, I can't quite recall) I broke up with her, she let me know that at her last check-up with her OB/GYN, she had been diagnosed with HPV. Apparently, her doctor had noticed some abnormalities previously, but for some unknown reason had not mentioned it to her.

I went to the medical clinic and got checked by both a corpsman and our flight surgeon. They both found one small pimple-like bump, and the flight surgeon gave me some topical cream to use (though I never did).

That was about 8 years ago. I have not seen any evidence of any outbreaks since then, and am not convinced that what the corpsman and flight surgeon saw was an actual GW. My understanding is that stress can cause GW, and I have had plenty of stress (recently and in the past), and neither my wife nor I have noticed any GW.

I did tell my wife, shortly after we met, that I had been, at the very least, exposed to it. I consider myself a carrier, but it's relatively unimportant to me, both because the health effects on men are pretty trivial (as I understand it), and because the only person I want to be with now and forever is my wife.

Passing it on is a concern, given the health risks to woman, so please don't think I'm totally unconcerned about it. As far as STDs go, it is very common, and with the exception of having to have GW removed and (for women) the increased risk of cervical cancer, it's a fairly benign STD (IMO, and I am in no way a doctor).

One piece of potentially good news to consider. Last spring when I went in for my vasectomy, I told the doctor about my exposure to HPV. He told me that recent research indicates that it is possible for the virus to leave the body, contrary to what previous research had said. This usually involves sexual abstinence (or at the very least using a condom, though as others have pointed out that is not 100% effective) for about a year. According to the doctor, this is especially important if both partners have HPV - otherwise they stand a good chance of passing it back and forth.

Lemonman and stu are imminently more qualified to discuss this than I am, and I will bow to their superior knowledge and experience in this area.

Mainly I wanted to post to give you some sort of encouragement, even if it is just a little.

I have a question on Herpes as well. I've tried to research it on the web, but not been very successful (I am, by profession and hobby, a programmer, but I suck at finding things on the web. Good thing I don't write search engine software <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).

I had heard somewhere or from someone that Herpes is in the same family as Small Pox? Is that true? (Yes, I do have a reason for asking that question).

I am very interested in the reasons for you asking that question.

Lem

Thankyou brokenbird. Yes the Dr's don't seem to be as shocked as we are when HPV GW shows up. I am hoping the virus can be removed completely from my H. We will be seeing the Derm on Mon, and I will have a lot of questions for him.

GW tend to look more like a normal wart, just a hardened growth/lump of the skin. A pimple looking thing is different and usually goes away and doesn't spread.

Lady

I have to admit that I would love to see this research Brokenbirds doctor mentioned.

I found this on pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Citation

Interesting nonetheless.

Lem

[quote]I found this on pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query...p;dopt=Citation<br />
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">


Lem, Thanks. That is interesting, and some promising good news there.

Lady

lemonman -


Reason sent to your yahoo account.

Update:

My H had the cryosurgery done this week. The topical meds had removed 3 of his GW, but the other 3 were removed by the
cryosurgery which is a freezing of them off. He said it was painful. He is now using an antibiotic cream to heal them the rest of the way.

This whole ordeal has been very disturbing for me. I cannot bring myself to thoughts of a near future SF relations with him yet, because it all still bothers me so much. But we will not be able to have a SF-less marriage, I know that!! What am I gonna do if I continue to have these feelings?

Lady

If your spouse has been cheating, it's best not to resume SF until all STD tests have been done. Protect yourself.

Lady

I felt the need to bump this thread up again.

Another GW has show up on my husband. He see's Dr. again in Jan. He will probably have to have the cyrosurgery again (freezing off).

It makes repairing our marriage much more difficult.
We have no intimacy.
I'm scared of getting his STD.
I'm angry.


The Reality.

(((ladysheep)))

LS,
I think I replied to you a while back, but I'm not sure if it was on this very thread.

I understand your fear, as I have HPV as a result of my FWW's A. It took two surgerys in the course of about one year and thankfully, I have had no recerence for about 3 years now.

I have read that HPV, is not necessarily permanent as we once believed. There are study's now that suggest that this can, eventually be purged from our bodies, after our immune system figures out the "code" to do so.

I am hopeful, but I understand your fear. It is totally justified. With that in mind, SF, which can be a huge part of recovery, becomes instead, a fear to live with.

I have no real answers, but I wish you well in your R.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Wow LS,
I just dug deep into this thread and see I responded to you 1 year ago almost exactly to the day....12/11/05.

Since you bumped this up, I assume your concerns are still very real and fearful.

My wife, for her part, has never exibited any signs from day one of having HPV. Her (lesbion GYN) convinced her that I was lying to her and it was I, and not her, who had contracted HPV!

This was a very difficult point of contention for several months. My FWW began to feel that she had confessed to something that, although guilty, she could have avoided if it were indeed me instead of her. It was CRAZY for a while. I can thank her GYN for that very misleading concept, as I had been nothing but faithful.

My HPV first surfaced almost 3 mos to the day of my FWW's infidelity.. Perfect timing according to the CDC.

I came to accept that this will not kill me, or her for that matter, as long as she gets yearly pap smears and stays completely on top of it.
Much better than not knowing anything at all. Thus, I do not dwell on it, and continue with SF as if nothing is wrong. In reality, that could be be true, but we take the neccessary precautions with our pysicians none the less.
Hope all is well with you,
All Blessings,
Jerry

Hi Jerry,
Yes I remember you. It's good to hear from you. And I'm thankful to know that you have had some hope with 3 years of no reaccurances.
Do to my husbands past (that I didn't know of before marrying him), that he frequented prostitutes now and then. And then during our marriage. I am more fearful.
I'm afraid he's gonna do it again, and possibly not tell me. Then possibly catch something worse, and give it too me.

You know I went on vacation during Thanksgiving (without my husband), and yes scary to leave him home alone for 8 days. And as I was stuck in the Ohare airport due to snow, I met a lady. We started a little conversation. I then asked her where she worked. She told me was like President of Dept of Veneral Disease Management in Michigan (something like that). She began to talk to me about STD's, 40,000 people a year get HIV/Aids in the USA. She kept restating over and over... "It's so preventable." "It's just so preventable." She's seen many die.
She talked about prostitutes not using a condom if thier John tells them not to, depending on the customers request. (I have not told her a thing about my husband at that point, continueing to just listen to her). I then told her about my husband and my fears. She understood.

The next day after arriving home, I asked my husband if he had anything on him and he said "I don't know," in a foggy bluster. I asked if I could look. And yes he did, and he made an appt with Dr.
He said he noticed it about 4 days after I was gone on the trip but didn't want to tell me at that time. Was he trying to hide it again? Yes, I believe so. I told him I don't feel sorry for him. It's his consequence, and I told him that each time he has the extreme pain of one being frozen off, to remember my pain. I told him each time a scar is left, remember the scars of my heart. Whether thats a DJ, I don't know but I meant it.

I hate the thought of having to practice safe sex (condom) with my own husband the rest of our marriage. It just turns me off. And we know condoms don't protect all.

I'm at a loss for an answer at this point too Jerry, but thankyou.


Jean, thanks for the hug. ((((Huggs))) to you too.

Lady

LadySheep, IMO what you told him was not a DJ, but a real reminder of the consequences of what he did, that he would surely rather bury forever.

[[bump

My husband and I were tested in July 06 for STD's (after his 8 month affair). They called several days later--we were both clean.

In November, husband turns up with small warts in his genital area. In December, they showed up on me. This, after getting a clean bill of health.

Lesson, just because they tell you your clean, doesn't necessarily mean you are. Sorry. Don't mean to scare people, just giving you my personal experience on it.

Since that happened, I really am nervous about further issues surfacing. What a way to live.

rltraveled,



So true. Unfortunately many have experienced this. I'm sorry it happened to you. It is a hurtful thing to live with, and makes recovery very difficult. My husband has had many outbreaks since, and he doesn't tell me immediately when he has them. Thankfully they haven't been passed on to me, that was my fear. We have lived seperately since Feb, and SF isn't a part of my marriage. I feel safer, but I don't like it. I no longer find him attractive. Who he got them from disgusts me! He disgusts me! And I'm really quite angry that he finds it "normal" to go and get them burned off every 5-6 months. I guess he has no choice.
And now I've had to make the choice to refuse SF with him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Lady