WH recently ended it with OW (last week) He has tried this before but usually gives in and calls her. Well its going on 2 weeks and the past few days he is absolutely miserable...very withdrawn from me. Has this happened to anyone and did it get better?
(Background:The affair began as an online friendship (yeah right!) then became physical, they met twice (she lives 5 hrs away) and he hasnt seen her for a year. (they email,and webcam) I found out a year ago, they met online 2 1/2 years ago. We have been married for 4 yrs but together for 15, I am 30 and he is 32.)

Of course, and sometimes.

Have you read through all of Dr. Harley's material? It is far better for you to read his stuff and then ask questions rather than ask an isolated question that needs to be put into context that you wouldn't understand without all the other information.

I guess I could go to where you have posted other stuff. If you have another thread, try to keep all of your questions in the same place so those of us who read and try to help will have everything right there and not chase around. Saves time.

Ok?

Larry

Welcome. You need to stay on one thread, because otherwise it gets hard to follow. I did see that hubby knows about this site. Might as well invite him to post too.

He is just like all the other waywards, doesn't think the affair is an addiction, doesn't think the other woman caused a problem in the marriage, blah, blah, blah.

Does he give you any reason why he came back?

You can ask the moderators in an email to combine your various threads. Seriously, it is hard to keep up with you when you are all over the place.

Larry

Sorry, I will combine them. I have read through the material, perhaps I need a refresh tho...He didn't ever actually leave, he just contacts her behind my back, creates a new email address so I will not find out, etc. But this time he said that he was done. Now,2 weeks later he is having a very hard time letting go of her. This is very frustrating for me, seeing him wanting someone else, that part of me just wants to throw my hands in the air and tell him to go. I just wasn't sure if his reactions were normal for withdrawl.

How much of the material have you read on the link in the right hand menu under "Most popular links," that is labeled "How to Survive Infidelity?" Did you read it, really, or scan it looking for a reset button or magic wand? I am not trying to be rude or harsh, just trying to keep you focused.

Of course he is having problems. It is called withdrawal. Now hopeful, I want you to live up to the name you have chosen and go read and then you will really have a reason to be, hopeful.

We can help you with the plan, but until you study enough to know what we are talking about, the plan will not make sense to you. See my signature

Larry

Hope:

Ok, now that you have read, thus my break in posts:

1.What do you know about withdrawal?

2. What do you with your husband to help him?

3. How do you handle yourself while he grieves?

4. Did you find the answers?

5. Is there something specific about the first task, NO Contact for life and helping him with his withdrawal that you want to ask?

6. Oh, and have you considered exposure for when he backslides?

Larry

Thanks Larry. I am re-reading the articles, I did read through them months ago. Here are answers to your questions:
1) Withdrawl- he will experience depression and a strong longing for her. It will be very difficult for him to not contact her because of the addiction. (in a nutshell)

2)To help him- I listen, I try to have as much patience and not yell or accuse. I really started plan A yesterday,(sad, I should have done this long ago) so I am trying to show him what he would miss if he kept this up...ex. I am being nice, understanding, no Love Busters, etc.

3)Handling myself when he grieves- This is my struggle. I don't mean to but I take that as rejection, or I think that its because he must be miserable with me. It wasn't really until yesterday that I realized this was what they classify as "FOG" and I see it clearly. So, I am trying to show him that I am here for him, last night I tried to give him space, and I did housework, organizing etc. Its just so hard to see him long for another woman.

4)I did find a lot of answers while reading the articles again. Thanks

5)Specific- is there a better way to help him through this withdrawl? Has anything worked for other people? I am willing to try anything.

6)Exposure- Yes I have considered it, if he backlies, then I won't keep his little secret. Definitely not.

Thanks Larry for your input. It has helped me a lot!

The webcam needs to go away.
Remove it. If it is built in, insist he only use his computer in your presence.
If WH objects, you will know he is still "active".
Install spyware on his computer. (see the spying 101 thread)
After reading what you've described, I am suspicious there might be more than one OW.
Have you considered that possibility?

Thanks Pepperband. The webcam is actually on his work laptop which i do not have access too. I have talked to the OW all week long for the past week so i know that contact is broken for now. As for more than one, I really don't think so, but who knows I could be wrong. He has done a lot to be transparent, I am just at a really hard place because I am trying to have patience to get him through this withdrawal, but it is so hard. My mind keeps telling me that he must want to be with her more than me, but he assures me that he is here with me because that is what he wants. Its just hard to let her go.

YOU AREN'T RELYING ON POSOW TO TELL YOU TH TRUTH ARE YOU?

Oh Hun, SHE IS GOING TO LIE TOO.

My WH's POSOW said to my face and on the phone MANY MANY times over a 2 year period that they were "just friends" and that my WH wasn't her type. The night I found out they were having a PA, I called her and asked how long and she said, "It's none of your business." If a woman sleeps with a MM, then she is a POS and she will lie to you and everyone else.

Is OW married?
Talk to her H if she is.
Talk to her boyfriend if there is one.

Specifically, what has he done?
Make a list.

I'm not relying on her to tell me, she is extremely manipulative. But she will make him leave me if they are talking, she has said she has had enough. She is much younger, he is 32 she is 24. She was physically abused by her father growing up and states that my H has been her support system blah blah...

He is not totally transparent because he lies to me by creating new email addresses and there is no way for me to track those. He is freely open with his passwords, phone, texts etc. The issue is that I work for the cell phone company so I can check that anytime, its the stupid hotmail accts I cannot check. ugh. He works away from home to do various jobs, so he could be gone for a night etc, but he has given me access to his work site so i can see where he is and the progress of the job. I know he has to quit his job because that is a source of the betrayal. I just don't know how to get him to do so.

He is shutting me out now, due to the withdrawal and he is not doing anything to make us communicate better, other than watch TV shows together. I have talked to him about quality time but he doesn't listen. He tells me that he is tired of being selfish but I tell him thats a choice. And something he can control.

Its very hard to see someone you know and love do this, as I am sure all of you are aware. We have been together for 15 years and suddently he is so different. There are times this week that I just want to tell him that if is suffering so bad he should just leave. But then I think, FINALLY he has let her go (for now anyway) so why walk away now when he made this step.

I bumped a thread for you.


http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2341355&page=1

Plan A is not about being nice and understanding. It is not about being a doormat.

It's about meeting his top ENs and avoiding LBs.
What are his top three ENs (what do you think they are)?
What are you doing to meet them?
What LBs do you struggle with the most? I bet Angry Outbursts and Disrespectful Judgments... am I right?

While you are in Plan A it is still perfectly all right for you to define your boundaries; it is expected that you tell him you will not be in a marriage with three people in it, and that you consider any contact between the two of them unacceptable. Don't bring it up over and over, because that becomes a DJ (assuming they are in contact). But do let him know clearly where you stand on this.

Sorry, I'm confused about what you mean. Could you please clarify?



How do you know he ended it with OW? Did he just tell you he did? Or did he write a NC letter that you mailed to OW? Or did he call her with you listening in on the other phone?

If WH has told OW there is to be NC, then you have no business whatsoever talking to OW. NC means NC!!! When you say "Contact is broken for now" do you mean that you talked to OW, or that he has contacted her?

If he contacted her, to whom did you expose? How? What did you say?

I am looking at his top 3 EN. I am also trying to meet them but he will not let me, he shuts me out, lays on the couch and is a depression.

I am about to admit something I shouldn't but I have access to both their cell records. There is no contact via phone. (unless they both have different phones)

I have talked to her myself everyday for the past week. He called her and ended it, which reading now I see that was wrong. He wanted me to be there, but we tried that before and it was too painful. She contacted me right away and we started talking about the things he would say to her, and to me, etc. I am fully aware not to trust her, she could easily lie to me. As well, in the past, when he tried to break it off and then return to emails behind my back, his attitude would "perk up" and he would seem happier. THanks for the thread, I did read through it and I noticed that usually if I follow my gut I am right. Right now, my gut is telling me that he has not been in contact, when I say yet, it means that I do not fully believe he will not revert back to this again.

I have stopped talking to her as of yesterday, I told her that we can no longer talk, etc. She manipulates, tells me that she "cares" about me and what he is doing to me, etc.

Thanks for clairifying the Plan A. I seriously feel like I don't want to push him, but at the same time, I feel like I shouldn't have to put up with this crap. You nailed my love busters, I do have angry outbursts, and crying as well seems to be something that sets him off. Its just very hard to keep trying to meet the needs of someone who is doing nothing to allow it or welcome it.

GOOD !
About time !

Do not allow an interloper inside your head.

Stop calling her! NC applies to YOU as well. How do you think it's helping your WH and his withdrawal, knowing that you are in daily contact with his drug?

Also, don't withhold info from us, like having the cell phone records. It is helpful for us to know what your snooping methods are so we can assist you in snooping. Unless you've told WH about this site and you think he may access it. If that's the case you may want to consider coming on with another screen name, and hold back on info that would identify you.

Thanks! He doesn't know what this site is called but he does know that I "read" about affairs online. He also knows that I have access to both their records due to my work. I get the NC rule, it was just so easy to listen to what she had to say, she kept saying she would tell me if he contacted her, blah blah which I know now, she never will. He lied to her too, told her we were broken up and they were going to move in together, then he would come up with excuses why he couldn't go see her.

Pretty typical for a wayward in withdrawal.

What are his top 3 ENs?
What are you doing to try and meet them?
People here can come up with some great, creative ideas sometimes.

Narrowing it down is difficult. I have asked him about this in the past and asked him to complete the survey but he refuses. I think the top 3 are:
1) Conversation
2) Sexual Fulfillment
3) Admiration

Although I think Domestic Support and Recreational Activity is very high up there as well. I keep trying to ask him different questions, to show interest, and to show that although the thinks we know everything about each other, we don't. I try to do thinks sexually, right now he isn't that interested. I am always telling him how great and wonderful he is, his response is "please don't say that, I am a terrible person for what I've done". I am open to any suggestions!

Admiration is usually a top need of men. Instead of telling him vaguely that he's great and wonderful, admire specific behaviors:
Jim, thank you so much for making breakfast this morning. I was feeling like I was pulled ten different ways and that really made a difference.

Jim, our yard always looks so nice. I'm always proud to come home and to have people know where I live.

Jim, thank you for taking care of the car. It's such a blessing to have reliable transportation. I appreciate that, and I try not to take it for granted.

Admiration carries extra points if you admire him to someone else and he knows about it or finds out about it. Admire him to your parents when you're all visiting, or brag on him to a neighbor or waitress when he's right there beside you. Things like that.

Wow! That is such useful info! What else do you have?

Did you click on the links in turtle's sig line? Read those.

I also used to click on people's names, go to posts, and then topics created. I would go to the first page and read their stories. It is a good way to find out about how the person giving you the advice got to where they are.

Thanks for all the wonderful information. H and I talked tonight, I told him I am here for him, and I will listen to him and anything he has to say. He stated that the fact that he "is here" should count for something. And that part of him wonders if he is meant to be with her and will be happier. I told him I am willing to try, and while him "being here" does count for a lot, it has to be meaningful, and that we need to be doing things to reconnect. he asked what that meant and I mentioned needs and asked if he knew what mine where etc. I did tell him that its very difficult for me, and I am trying to stay positive because I believe in us, but there are times I feel like giving up. Overall it was a good conversation, we did talk divorce, not that we wanted too, just if we could see it happening to us. He said to me that he will never contact her behind my back, and if it came down to him giving in, he would tell me first. (don't believe him!)He said is is constantly struggling not too, but I told him things will get easier if he just hangs there. This is very frustrating because a part of me is angry as to why I have to work to meet his needs when he isn't there to meet mine. He also said he feels absolutly terrible to be missing her so much, and that he can see it causes me pain.

What is DJ ???

Read up on Love Busters (link in my signature)

It's VERY frustrating to have to deal with the pain and anger of betrayal *and* do all the heavy lifting early on. But someone has to take those first steps and the wayward won't. So there you are.

What extraordinary precautions have you guys put in place to keep him from contacting OW?

Examples:
keylogger on the computer and all reports get mailed to you
logger on his cellphone
rules on his email (at home and work) that auto-forward any emails from her to you, or that simply delete her emails
agree to switch cellphones whenever you request it
cellphone or car with GPS enabled at all times so you can see where he's been, and when

It's like being on a diet. It's next to impossible to resist temptation if the cupboards are full of chips and cookies. So you throw out all the easy access points and it becomes a LOT easier.

How do you get through withdrawal without giving up? I found out he contacted her AGAIN....we wrote a no contact letter 2 days ago, she has been texting him yesterday but he did not reply. Now here we go again...last time the withdrawal was so bad I really felt like giving up. Any words of encouragment?

What do you do when your WH is in the "fog" and is not willing to work on your emotional needs and figure out what yours are?

He will be willing to work on your needs once withdrawal is done and you are in recovery. But first he has to have no contact with her. You need to get ready for Plan B. Otherwise you will get tired of giving and giving with nothing in return. Right now he is getting some of his needs met by you and some by her.

I just don't know how long I give him for withdrawal. Its been 4 days since the no contact was estabolished via email. (I was with him when he wrote it). I am trying to do things together and sometimes it works other times he has no interest. I ask him questions about his hopes for the future etc and his response is always "i dont know". He was doing good up until 2 nights ago when I received a call from the OW boyfriend. He had no idea she had one and he thinks its a ploy to get him to contact her. I am so fed up with this, and I am tired of continully not getting my needs met but I don't want to lose him and I think once the fog lifts he will open up.

Does everyone go into Plan B before the WS comes around? Has anyone experienced the withdrawal go away without Plan B?

I'm not real sure how much help I'll be because I have my own problems but I'll share a few thoughts.

- the affair has to die before anything will get better. The nice, neat way of that happening is for them to stop communicating. This will cause withdrawal symptoms which will last for what seems like forever. Then, most waywards will defog and be more open to you meeting their needs. They need them to be met and if the other person is out of the picture, then you are in the perfect spot to do so.

- breaking the no contact rule will be detrimental to everyone because it only sets you up for another round of withdrawal. If they refuse to stop talking or if he refuses to let you meet his needs, at some point, you will need to decide to go to Plan B. This is where I am at, and I know that it is a difficult decision for many reasons. Most men should plan A for about 6 months, women for 6 weeks (from what I've been told).

- my wife's first affair did die after she stopped talking to him and realized how crazy she was to mess around with a married alcoholic. She broke no contact more times than I could count. The withdrawal probably lasted about 6-8 weeks.

- one last thought on meeting his needs. Make sure that you are as attractive as possible anytime he sees you. Try not to let him see anything negative (bad breath, no makeup, etc). I'm sure the OW is always looking her best when he sees her, too.


Good luck.

Thanks so much for your input. I see now that the no contact seems to be the hardest part. (so far!) My H has tried this now for the past year, on and off. Their relationship was over the internet, so there is much fantasy involved. I am hoping and praying that this will be the last time and we can beat this pattern. Its almost been a week since NC has been estabolished and sometimes I see a side of him that I know and love, and other times, I see the fog. Sometimes he tries so hard to pick a fight with me, and I used to give in and have an angry outburst, but I have learned to calmly walk away and talk to him about it after he calms down. I think he has a lot of anger and I will not tolerate it being directed at me, so I hope it comes to an end soon!

Thanks for the info on the attractiveness. I have been trying this more lately. In the past year I didn't. I thought, I am me and he should love me for me. But I understand that I have to be the best W I can and attractiveness is a big part of that. In fact, that was something that the OW has said to me, "You aren't a trophy wife, he said I am sexier, etc" So I have been working out for the past week, and trying harder doing my hair, makeup etc. I think this is actually a big need that he has but will not admit too.

Hopeful, read up on Plan-A. It is really about being the best you that you can be, included in that is best W. Work out, watch your diet, get a pedicure, highlight your hair, get a makeover at one of the department store cosmetic counters, go do things that you used to do before "life" caught up with you. Invite your WH to join you on walks, cook his favorite meals, light candles. Reminisce about fun memories, look through old photos, suggest revisiting some of those times and places together. Make your home and your family a truly warm and inviting place to be!

Whatever happens, improving the person that you are is always a good thing and you could really use the lift right now.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks Say!

It really wasn't until this time around that I read about Plan A. I think its the best advice ever given. In the beginning, when the A was first discovered, I was too angry and hurt to even think of doing anything for myself. I would constantly be by his side, and try to do things for him. That has since changed, and I now try to do things for him yes, but I also take my own feelings into account. I am walking an hour a day, and I must say that is some of the best therapy out there. LOL.

During my walk I reflect on things, and if I find that I am getting myself down, I will turn on a song that motivates me and RUN. And I mean RUN. I am learning to do things to make myself interesting to him again. He feels that he knows everything there is to know about me, but he is so wrong. people change over time as does their needs and their feelings. We have an opportunity to change our life and hopefully have a more fulfulling M because of this.

I just hope that he sees this in time. The fog is extremely painful. He pulls away from me emotionally and that is painful. Hopefully I will not have to resort to PLan B, but I will if I have too.

Plan A means doing this for yourself with no expectations. That is the hardest part. Don't be clingy or needy. Don't ask him if he loves you. I didn't even tell my WH that I loved him, I just showed him. He got to the point where he really needed hear it.

You can do this.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thank you so much Say. You are hitting all of my weak points, and making me see what needs to happen. I have been so bad for being needy this past year, and I do ask him if he loves me. I have somewhat stopped doing so, but I do ask occassionally.

My H and OW constantly texted each other, so I started texting him, we would text ALL DAY long. He said it was too much and I used to push to keep texting him because it was something he did with her. I have now realized that this isn't the way to go about this. I am learning to slightly back away and give him space. I mean, how can he appreciate me fully when I am always "in his face" so to speak. (If that makes any sense!)

Is it a good idea to do the emotional needs survey alone and show it to my WH? He doesn't quite believe in this stuff, so I am not sure if by me doing that, will hurt us more in the long run. Has anyone had experience where WS wasn't completely on board in the MB ideas but came around?

My DH has never been onboard with MB. Is that the ideal situation? Absolutely not but we have gone with it and so far, it is working for us. I worked MB by myself for over a year. I filled out the EN questionaire for DH and did my best to fullfill his needs as I saw them and change my tactics according to his response. I came as close as humanly possible to eliminating my own personal LBs.

Eventually, he filled out the questionaire and read the one that I had filled out for myself. Even a one sided MB R is better than without MB. The changes in both of us are almost miraculous.

I also never tried to educate him or shoved any of it down his throat. He read Surviving an Affair early on at the suggestion of our MC and found the rest "repetitive." He has put the concepts to work in our M with very little conversation about it. That is just his personality.

God's Blessings,

Say

By the way, I do NOT recommend this approach. It is much better to gently get your WH to come on board. It will be more successful and not has hard on you. Sometimes though, it is what it is.

Don't expect him to actively participate in R until he is completely through withdrawal.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks again Say. Everything you say is making sense. I wish I posted on here last year when I first found out about this. I have done so many things that did more harm than good, without realizing what it was that I should be focusing on.

I am currently working on LB's and am finally realizing what mine are. Its just super frustrating when I am putting in the effort and he is just sitting there like a zombie. lol. But i know its the withdrawal, and I have faith it will go away, as long as he doesn't give in again.

How long did withdrawal last in your situation? Could you tell when it was near its ugly end? Lol

My DH had very little typical withdrawal so I am no help on that. Just keep telling yourself, "NO EXPECTATIONS!" If you do not expect him to reciprocate your attempts to fill his ENs, you will not be dissappointed. If you do these things to improve Hopeful, you will not look to him for approval. I do know that in spite of all of the similiarities, timelines can be very different.

Come here for approval and support and advice and love til you start getting it from WH. Keep a very careful eye on him. Trust but verify.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks again. Your input is much appreciated. Who knew this could be so hard? LOL.

It is the hardest and the most worthwhile thing that you will ever do in this life.

God's Blessings,

Say

It sounds like you are in recovery. Have you been in recovery long? God, I just want to get to that point right now. The withdrawal symptoms are such a huge Love Buster for me, and he sincerely does not try it. He actually tells me that he is doing good, and he isn't that sad. But I can sense it in his voice, his looks, what he does, etc.

Memorial day weekend will be three years since D-Day. It took eight or nine months to even get into what I would consider R. We spent months dealing with the issues brought on by the A before we could even deal with the issues that brought on the A.

Pay no attention to what he says. What he does and how he acts are the only indicator of where he is at in all of this. I don't think that I would consider withdrawal a LB. He has no control over that. The fog is thick. That is why you cannot expect him to even consider your needs at this point. Plan A is hard. R is harder.

NC is the important part right now. Until that is totally in place, he is not even thinking about you. He may slip up. Just Plan a your butt off.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks! I will definitely Plan A my butt off!! LOL.

Its not that withdrawal is a love buster per se, it just makes me think "will things ever get better" and "does he actually love me". I know the difference. He tells me all the time that he loves me, but its hard to forget the "I love you but not in love with you" speech. Its scary to think that R is harder, but I know it is.

Hopeful, I just skimmed back through your thread. For some reason, you decided to skip the most crucial step in Plan-A, EXPOSURE! You are just setting yourself up for a false R and that may be why some of the vets have stopped posting to you. Has your WH revealed all info that you requested about OW? Is OW married? If so, have you exposed the A to OWH? If not, can you tell me why?

I'm sorry but MB is not a menu that you pick and choose from especially if only one of you is following it. Don't be surprised if he contacts her again as long as you keep his secret. Continue to Plan A but use the stick or your chances of success are next to none.

God's Blessings,

Say

Sorry, i must have missed that post as well. Exposure did in fact take place. Family and Friends are all aware. The OW is not married, she is only 24 years of age and lives at home with her parents. Her father is abusive but her mother is aware of this. I told most of our friends and family and H told the rest. He told his family himself, his brother actually almost hit him

Okay, sorry I missed that. Maybe on another thread? Reread the Plan a stuff and proceed.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks, I am going to try my best.

Oh sorry i forgot to answer another question you asked. My H answered all of my questions, he never did like it, I asked some that were very detailed that I wish I could take back, but in the moment I felt I just "had to know".

As much as the truth hurts to know, sometimes it is not as bad as what your mind will imagine. That's why I had to know.

Withdrawal is a very difficult time. Try not to lovebust, even though the things he will say, if he is truthful, will be very hurtful. My wife would go on and on about how the adultering, alcoholic liar she was with was the perfect man and that he was so wonderful. It made me sick.

This period of time will seem to last forever. Most of what I have read says that the intense withdrawal lasts for about 3 weeks with lingering effects up to 6 months. Obviously, no contact is the key to completely getting through it. The fog will start to lift after a few weeks.

Thanks! I am not having an easy day right now, H is at work doing online courses on a computer he used to talk to OW. He is doing work, I can hear the course in the background and he offered to bring home the laptop so I can work my magic and search through it. (He has NO idea how to delete cookies or internet files, etc) He is being transparent, but I am so worried that this cycle will start again.

This is the 5th time he has tried to estabolish NC, however the first 2 times the A was not exposed, and this time she flipped out and contacted my FIL and BIL on facebook, so he is quite upset. I also received a call from a man claiming to be a boyfriend which my H knew nothing about.

He has a tendancy to create new email addresses to talk to her, and that is my worry. ANyone know of a program that helps you find email addresses besides www.spokeo.com?

I am really trying my hardest not to give in to my emotions right now, because that causes me to have an angry outbust and accuse. I CANNOT do that. I am keeping an close eye on him and his behavior has not changed in regards to the withdrawal. The last time he tried NC I knew when he started talking to her because his attitude changed IMMEDIATELY.

Its just such a scary situation, I brace myself for the next time I catch him with the laptop talking to her. Sorry, Just having a rough moment which will pass, but I just wanted to vent to you all instead of saying all of this to H like I did in the past. I am in plan A and I do not want to talk about this or our relationship with him right now. Its a downer and we have rehashed this stuff over and over and over.

Will he do any fun things with you? Don't forget you need to be spending 15 hours a week doing enjoyable things together.

Yes he will. He is sometimes reluctant but he will. If I were to leave him alone he would sit in front of the TV and watch sports all night long though. That is a huge habit that we have to overcome but we are learning.

I know Dr.H does not count TV as time together and it isn't. But in the past few years during the A, we watched COMPLETELY different shows. He would be in the basement watching his and I would be upstairs watching mine. That is one thing that has stopped.

We still do spend time watching TV and talking during that time but we compromise and only watch TV shows that both of us like. This has been the case over the past few months.

THis time around we are trying to do other things like playing board games, he is going to teach me how to play chess, we spend time doing things around the house etc.

I have tried numerous times to get him to go for a walk with me but he says no. He hates that and thinks its the most boring thing ever.

Any suggestions?

Depends on what the two of you are interested in. My ex and I did a lot of camping and fishing.

You could pack a picnic lunch and go to a local park. Take classes together, learn a new sport, go bowling, out for sushi, to a movie, the list is endless.

Thanks believer. Any ideas on how I get him to do something when he is in "withdrawal Mode" and just wants to lay around and watch TV? I don't want to force him or anything, but I just want to encourage him.

I just talked to H and his attitude seems to be alittle better this afternoon......IS THAT A RED FLAG AGAIN? Or could it be simply that the withdrawal isn't as bad at the moment? He finished his 2 day course and he said that was why he felt a little better, now that he had that done. Plus we are going to his brothers for supper.

I really hope that it doesn't mean he contacted her again.

Can you do an impromptu weekend away. DH and I utilized the state park system that first summer to get away from the scene of the crime and it has become a wonderful passtime for us. The first one, I just said to him on Friday when he got off work, "Let's get out of here!" and I picked up the phone and called til I found a vacancy in a romantic little rustic cabin.

God's Blessings,

Say

Only time will tell. Go and have a nice time at his brother's tonight.

You are going to have to learn patience. It is going to be a long time before things can start improving. Each day, though, is a step in the right direction. The first few weeks of withdrawal will probably be very difficult. But just because he's gone 5,6, or even 10 days doesn't mean much. Those feelings can be very strong.

My wife would usually break no contact after about 2 weeks. This was when her longing got the best of her. Then, after withdrawal is over, then the real work begins.

But for now, you're doing the right thing. Maintaining no contact, avoiding lovebusters, and trying to meet his needs whether he is receptive or not. That will help you get through withdrawal and into the next phase.

This is a great place to come when you are feeling despondent and helpless. We've all been through it. Hopefully, you can learn from our experiences and mistakes.

Thanks everyone. Unfortunately we cannot go away right now, H is working and I cannot get time off either and H works this weekend. We were looking into going to Mexico in May with another couple but aren't sure if that will work out.

His attitude improved A LOT yesterday and continued this morning. He seemed to be in a good mood, joking, cuddling, kissing, etc. I know I have to have patience but its so hard because its been 1 week, and its usually the 1 week mark that he breaks NC. I did however see a setback in his mood just before bed, he seemed to retreat to that dark place. I could be doing what I do best since I learned about this A- READ into things. Its just difficult, I hate feeling better about our situation and future only to be blindsided by another email address created to chat to her.

Should I look for signs in his mood and take that to mean that the NC is broken? Or, should I take it for him possibly have a day without the "fog" or feelings of withdrawal.

In the past, I would accuse him of talking to her at this point. In fact, I used to ask regularly if he had. I now know how much of a mistake that was. We have barely spoken about it this past week at all. The only time was when he had a phone call showing the area code of her province and he immediately gave me the phone to answer. He asked me if I was as scared as he was, he thought it may have been her boyfriend calling to threaten him. (H does not like being attacked verbally and is not a fighter AT ALL) This boyfriend contacted me on Friday and said he may just give my H a call and tell him that if he contacts her again he is coming and showing up on our doorstep...

Another positive thing that happened yesterday was H called me to see how I would feel about possibly moving to the US for a year, his company posted management jobs there and he wanted to know how I would feel about relocating there and him checking into it. This makes me think- would he apply to move that far away from her if he had intentions on seeing her again?

Sorry for the long reply, just some thoughts that are in my head and I want to handle them correctly instead of making my past mistakes. I really hope he is still maintaining NC. He knows that he needs to do this, when I found out about the email last week, he begged me not to leave and told me our M was what he wanted but he needed help, he thought he had the withdrawal beat last time but he called her one time and that lead to a new email address. He told me that he wants to be the person he was and that only I can help him do that....
THanks for listening to my long rant.

Any thoughts? Sorry, its just getting the best of me today and I am trying to fight my past pattern.

It sounds very hopeful to me. Just hang in there. I know how horrible it is because my ex broke NC over and over. And you are doing much better than I did. I let my fear and anger get the best of me, and we ended up divorced.

Sorry to hear believer. Its very difficult. I usually let fear and anger get the best of me, and my H reply is always "well you didn't make it easy for me when I ended contact you know"....And part of that is correct, even though he should not use me as an excuse. I would always ask him, I would always sound sad, look sad, cry etc, tell him I was just waiting for him to do it again.

This time around I am telling myself not to do those things. Because if I do not and he re-estabolishes contact, he cannot use that saying towards me. He cannot blame me for it. Plus I think, "what if he is telling the truth this time?" I try to remind my self to hang in there and just keep an eye on his actions and behaviors.

I used to let anger fuel my actions. FOr instance there is a HUGE part of me that wants to tell him the boyfriend called to say that H and OW are talking again, but I think "where will that get me"? That won't help, it will just be talking about the past again and reminding him. Plus I don't want to be a lie. (He didn't call)

Its just so frustrating. I was thinking yesterday, last year before I found out about the A, we were trying to have a baby and had been trying awhile. I was on a website called Fertility Friend, and would refer to H as DH (dear Husband)and now here I am and the acronym changed to WH. Who knew.

Have you talked to him anymore about moving to the US? You might chat with him about that. It is usually good when former waywards start making future plans.

Also the Harleys suggest moving as a way to maintain NC.

Thats a good idea. We have talked about it, he said not to get my hopes up he was only looking into it at the moment and it might not amount to anything. But I think its a good sign. The issue is he is REALLY bad for making decisions lol..so I guess we shall see. I will keep asking him about it though just to keep making plans for the future.

My hardest struggle right now is not giving into my suspicions. I keep thinking "what if"? What if he has talked to her? It only takes once and he is hooked again.

If he breaks NC again, you will need to go to Plan B. Have you prepared for that?

I have, I have given it a lot of thought last time. It will be extremely hard, and very painful but I have to do whats best for me too. I will not continue to be involved in this cycle.

My fear is that I will not find out and it will be months down the road, when I am feeling better, that I will discover it has been happening all along. Just wish I could be certain, although I know thats not possible.

Is it a good idea to share with him that I am feeling stressed about this today? He is only going to do everything he can to tell me he isn't talking to her. Same as before. He would look me in the face and say I am not lying, I can't believe it, even when I tell the truth this still happens".

I wouldn't mention it, just try to have a nice day with him. He is telling you the truth each time he says he will go NC. He really believes it, but is addicted. That is what makes it so hard.

No contact is the only answer, just like a junkie needs to stay away from the crack house and an alcoholic can't spend his time in the bar.

And don't worry about not finding out, because you will know by his behavior. When my ex FINALLY had NC with the OW, he was just like the man I married. I could see it in his eyes. I could just tell. Course by that time we were divorced.

Sorry to hear that believer. Are you trying to rekindle anything with him? Sorry i am unfamiliar with your story.

The hard part is that when he was talking to her I could sometimes see that he was like himself. A lot actually. Although he did things for me that he never used too, for instance bring me coffee at work.

So, should I just continue with Plan A, and keep my insecurites from him and just cautiously monitor him?

Sorry i just read your first post about not mentioning it. lol

Also, the A is exposed but not to her father. Should I do this or just leave it alone? (She is 24 and her father is apparently abusive) I want to write him a mailed letter and explain but I think that may only provoke her to call us at this point. Should I wait and see if they contact each other again and then do this?

bump**

I would save the extra exposure for when contact is resumed, if it ever is. The point of exposure is to shine light on the A and help hasten its demise. If there is NC, there is no need for exposure. The only exception to this would be if OW's H or boyfriend didn't know. Then you need to expose to them because their partner's behavior directly impacts them (STDs etc.). So in this case I wouldn't expose to OW's father. I also wouldn't worry about him being abusive.

You sure seem to be spending a LOT of energy wondering, fearing, and suspecting. That's normal, it's part of PTSD and you've been through a huge shock. But please take a step back and try to realize that all the time you spend worrying is really time spent in DJs. Disrespectful Judgements. Love Busters.

Focus instead on eliminating LBs and meeting his ENs.

Now I'm not saying to be stupid and naive, don't do that. Maintain vigilance...I'd even tell WH that you'd feel much more secure if there were a key logger on the computer (or I'd just put one on and not mention it to him). That way you don't have to wonder if there's a new secret email account... you just check the logs. You don't have to listen fearfully to every little tap-tap on the keyboard and wonder what he's typing, and to whom. You'll still check the logs, and you'll get peace of mind from that, but you won't cringe and stress all day.

Be sure and meet his ENs. Thank him for times like when the phone came in with the suspicious area code and he handed the phone to you to answer. That's a big step.

Thanks for the support. I am spending WAY too much time obsessing about what can happen. Unfortunately I cannot put a keylogger on his work computer because its at his work. Thats my fear and that is the computer he used in the past.

Its really good to hear back from people on this site, it really does make you take a step back. I just wish the insecurities I have would go away...and I guess in time they will.

The phone call was a big step but he has done this in the past because he knows she will not call him, she prefers to use email. When she calls I ALWAYS find out and that destroys what "they" have and he breaks contact for a short period of time.

Ok, here is my dilema. H was at work for the past 2 days doing "online courses" on the laptop he used to talk to OW. I called a few times and I could hear the course in the background.

He doesn't know that I have his username and password to his work portal. I logged in and looked at the courses and he is only enrolled in ONE. Some of the courses he said he did show up as not enrolled......

Should I question this? Do I ask him to see certification that he completed these courses?

What kind of courses are they? How long should they take? If it says "not enrolled", I would assume he didn't take them. Can you look at a transcript online?

Do you think he is using the courses excuse to use the affair laptop?

They are work related courses that should take awhile to do. I asked him specifically which ones he has taken and they say not enrolled. I also tried to enroll him and see what happens and it says that he has to do prereq first.

I am curious if he is talking to her again since his mood has changed a lot since Monday.

I wouldn't say anything about it. Bide your time.

A personal question - does he want SF with you?

THanks believer. Yes he does want SF with me. In fact there was something he wanted me to do in that department that I offered this past few months and he always said "we will see". Thats how I knew he was in contact with her.

Last week, when he broke contact he brought it up and said he wanted to do that, and the reason he didnt was her. I asked him last night and he said yes he would like too, just not tonight he was tired.

I will not say anything. I will just keep an eye on things. For example, he works 2 weeks on and 1 off, and since the A he has been going into work on this days off just periodically saying he needed to do something. I will watch for behavior like that.

You are a sneaky one! LOL.

So you have kind of a built in barometer on whether or not there is still contact. See if he is still too tired tonight.

LOL I know.

H just called me, he finished another course and so since one of his EN is conversation and I am trying to steer clear of enemies of bad conversation I asked him about the courses. He explained them to me, and said he had problems logging in from his workspace so the boss had to put direct links on his desktop for him and he had to print confirmation. He said this without me even asking anything. I think thats a good sign!

We have courses like that at work, and sometimes it is IMPOSSIBLE to log in, so I do believe that.

Try to enjoy his company tonight and not stress about it. Either he will maintain NC or he won't. Actually, most posters have to go to Plan B.

Thanks Believer! His mood has changed a lot in the past 2 days. He could sense it was bothering me yesterday, and he told me that he is telling the truth and I will see that in time.

If I have to go to Plan B I will, it will be extremely difficult to do but I will do it. I actually tried to leave on 2 occassions after I found out about contact and as soon as I find out, he BEGS me not too and says that there is no doubt in his mind that he wants us, he just contacts her because he is wondering how she is doing, and it spirals from there. But I also know he would say anything to make me stay and "have his cake and eat it too".

I think he probably DOES want you, he is just addicted. Once the OW is completely out of the picture, the two of you will be in recovery and can move on to a wonderful marriage.

Right now the danger is that he will fail with NC again. A BS has a certain tolerance for false recoveries. You may be able to go through 10 more, I don't know your number. But the scary thing is, one day you might wake up and realize that you have lost your respect for him. And after that, the love goes quickly.

That is what happened to me. When my ex came out of the fog, he was just like the man I married. He begged me to go out with him, talk to him, anything. But I was just done.

A year later he committed suicide.

Plan B is hard and every BS dreads doing it. But it is absolutely essential to protect the love you still have for hubby.

Believer, I am so very sorry to hear about your H.

I really appreciate all the advice you have been giving me. I know what you mean, I cannot go through this time and time again and will PLAN B if I have too. I am following PLAN A for the first time ever and I am really hoping this will work.

His mood makes me feel uneasy sometimes but I think, "isnt that what I want to accomplish? Him to be better?" I thought the withdrawal would last longer, and I am sure its not completely over, but I think of the timelines and how he tried NC 3 times since Xmas so the length of time that he has spoken to OW has decreased significantly. I wonder if its easier for him than when he was talking to her for months and had to do NC?

Let's hope so. In the end, it is really up to him. He needs to bite the bullet. Otherwise it is like an alcoholic who still hangs around the bar - sooner or later he will fall.

Just keep meeting his needs for conversation and admiration. Try to be excited about your future together. I know how hard it is.

It is hard. Its wierd though, I do feel like things will get better. I hope that doesn't come to bite me in the butt!

Ok, I am super angry at the moment! I woke up this morning, H was just staring at me. I asked him what was wrong he said he had pains in his stomach and was wondering if he had an ulcer from the stress etc. I told him that I thought things were getting better this week. While he kind of agreed, he said he was still having a hard time.

He said that he wonders if he will ever make me happy, and that he never has been a happy person, bla bla bla. So I see the fog AGAIN. He said part of him wonders if I would be happier without him.

I asked him if he was in contact again, and he said no and to go ahead to call her to see like I had in the past. He definitely is suffering from depression, but I have no idea what to do to help.

I asked him what he wanted and again, all I get is "i don't know". I am so sick of hearing I don't know. I read emails between him and OW and he sounded so upbeat, happy etc. Could it be that he is really in love with her and that she makes him happy?

We talked about how to be happy and I told him that I think it starts by spending more time together doing happy things. He doesn't agree. SUPER frustrating. He said we are happier around our friends and family playing games, etc. and i said that was because we were having fun and interacting. How do I make him see the light? Or, do I just walk away?

Before I left the house to go to work I asked him to please figure this out. I am here to help him and I do believe we can get through it. But I am not going to keep this cycle going. (Does that make sense?)

He's in withdrawal and not depression, IMO. What he's saying sounds pretty typical of a wayward coming off their drug, to me.

And of course he won't go to a doctor for anti-D's. Men almost never will.

So if he is happier around friends and family, try to increase that.

No he won't go to a doctor. Its making me very angry and I just feel like walking away but I think he if he can get through this we can be on the road to recovery. I have tried explaining to him that many WS feel this way, he said that angers him to hear that he is a "textbook" case. He thinks maybe he is different from everyone else and he feels this way for a reason.

Do you think it means that its coming to the end of the withdrawal, or this is just typical of withdrawal itself?

Should I stay away from him for the rest of the day and give him a taste of being without me for the day? Or do I try to work with him, text him that I think he's wonderful and he can get through this, etc?

*BUMP*

He is telling me that he is trying not to give up its just not easy. I feel that he is in the EXACT same place as he was the last time NC was estabolished and he broke it. I am kind of worried right now and just feel lost.

I have just reread some articles on the MB site, especially the 3 states of marriage. Any ideas how i can pull him back?

I would like to install a keylogger on our laptop at home but I do not know much about them. can someone fill me in?

*Bump*

Is it a bad idea to print off some material from this site and read it with H? We talked a little throughout the day, his mood was improving but he said not much has changed. I told him that in order for us to have fun together we need to be doing things together that ARE fun.. I am just so fed up because I am really starting to think contact may have been broken. Its really hard to stay in PLAN A when I think of the possiblity of them talking again.

Yeah, I told my wife she was a textbook case, too. She didn't like it. I kept giving her examples of folks on here who were in worse shape than we were in hopes that it would give her hope in making the marriage work. It didn't....she always said that's them, not us.

The bottom line is that she didn't want to come here for advice because she didn't want the marriage. Having a marriage with me would mean not having freedom, or a relationship with someone else. So, coming to this site was a threat to her happiness.

As far as avoiding you hubby, my wife preferred me to be away. She could do want she wanted. I don't know the right answer - maybe it is to find something to occupy your time and not worry about what he is doing - I know that's hard though.

eBlaster is an awesome keylogger.
It costs $100 and downloads in about 5 mins.
It will email you a report everyday of EVERYTHING they do.
passwords, chats, websites, - it's good.

I would not try to force any type of recovery or committing while he is in contact with OW or in withdrawal. It won't work. Once the fog has lifted, then he can make real decisions and take real action.

My wife committed to me, but kept contacting OM, so it was all just a lie.

I am not trying to discourage you from showing your H info from this site. It might be helpful? But, I just want you to be prepared for what the likely outcome may be.

I wouldn't show him anything or try to educate him.

By all means put a keylogger on the computer. Eblaster is good.

Try telling him how happy you are that he is trying so hard. Meet his needs that he will let you meet.

I would really like to do the questionaires. SHould I ask him if he is willing? I did tell him that was a condition of us trying again when I found out about the last email.

He doesn't even know what his needs are. Ugh..FOG!

Thanks again believer!

Thanks arkhawk1. I know how you feel about the lies. he has tried to break contact 5 times I think...I lost count. I made mistakes by not posting last year, so there was no exposure at first, no NC letter, no plan A, etc.

Hoping to do it right this time.

Of course he doesn't know what his needs are, he's all fogged out. Try to figure out what needs OW was meeting and see if you can start meeting some of them.

Good Point. I can think of 3 she met but what confuses me, is I didn't stop doing any of them either. SF is high need for him, and it is for me too. Until she came we did this frequently, and of course he lost interest in it with me over time. He thinks we were in a "rut" so I have been trying to do new things and he doesn't respond to it. he tells me he thinks its "fake" and weird. (SF stuff and non SF stuff)

Yes, it may feel fake and weird, but keep it up. Admiration is usually a big one for men. Can you ask his help on things that he is good at and then give him admiration?

Yeah thats a good idea. I have been trying to get him to learn to take a compliment too, whenever someone does, he always shrugs it off and says they are wrong.

If you get into the habit, maybe he will stop shrugging it off. Although that might be his personality and why he finds the online fantasy attractive.

I think it could be his personality. That is the scary thing. He always found the online stuff appealing I think. But I will keep trying, I complimented today and he actually chuckled and said thank you so maybe that is a step in the right direction!

Ok i just need some input. As you know, yesterday was a bad day for H in withdrawal. He kept saying stuff like he is never happy bla bla. So, I told him that we had to start doing things together- FUN things. He came home last night from ball hockey and was kind of "zoned out" but said he would do whatever I wanted, he was tired but he would try.

I suggested playing a board game together, and we did. He did, he said "whatever you want to do" in a flat tone. He didn't seem to enjoy it as much as he does when our friends play too..

is it supposed to be this hard to get the WS to spend quality time with you? I think one of our biggest problems is that we stopped doing those things together- just the two of us. We hardly had date nights, on weekends we always hung out with other married friends, etc. So when we are together it seems like all we do is watch TV. We do shop together and stuff like that, but nothing that can estabolish a deep connection.

Any ideas? I suggested we go for an ice cream today but his hockey team is playing and he can't miss that. UGH!!!

OMG! H just left, he said he didn't want this anymore. I asked him to leave and called his parents to tell them what was happening. I guess I am in Plan B now. Do I respond to anything he writes? HELP! Need some Plan B info ASAP!

be calm hopeful... be calm.

i just started plan b this afternoon, hardest thing I've ever done. There is some good info on plan b in SAA and in the notable posts thread in the notable posts forum...

hang in there. I'm on here and will be for a while....

{{{{{{HOPEFUL}}}}}}}}

Okay, so he is gone. Good. Not the MB plan, but we will work with it.

You need to write a Plan B letter tonight so that you have it ready next time he shows up (and it will probably be soon).

Thanks! He is gone because I asked him to leave. He told me he doesnt' want this anymore. I called his parents as soon as he left, the are EXTREMELY supportive. Even wrote OW an email.

What do I say in this letter? He is obviously super pissed at me for writing his parents, sent me a text thanking me in his sarcastic way.

I explained to them that he needs to be told that what he is doing is wrong. They are fully on board.

Should this be a hand written letter? Also if he texts or calls should I not respond?

You are right- SOOOO hard!

Someone here has an example. Let me look for it. The letter should be a love letter, letting him know that you love him, but to protect that love, you will no longer have contact with him.

Don't give it to him until you have had it vetted here.

Ok so this weekend held some major events. Let me try to break it down so its easy to read. I really need to know where to go from here because I feel this is my last attempt at this.

H has been in withdrawal for the last few days as you can see from my posts and I really felt they were in contact. Finally on Saturday he looked at me and said "I don't want this anymore". So, I looked at him and asked him to leave. He wasn't going too, so I started to pack and then he said he would leave. I called his brother and he FLIPPED at me for it, saying that I was turning them against him.'

Here's some background: He has not seen OW in a year in person, they talk on MSN. He creates new email addresses and that is their method of communication. I found out last year, when he saw her last. I did not find MB until recently and exposure was gradual. (First a few friends months after I discovered, then his brothers.) I did not tell his parents. I KNOW. BIG MISTAKE.

There were reasons for this: 1) HIs mother suffers depression and we were not sure how she would react. 2) She would cut ties with him. (she would, her family is known for letting stuff like this come between them) 3) A part of me thought we could get through this without them having to know.

So, this past week that has been on my mind. (that I didn't expose to them). So, Saturday when he left, I called them. It was horrible. They are completely supportive of me, and LOST it at him.

So back to Saturday night- he text me and asked if he could come home to change and I said yes (I wasn't home) but kept pushing to talk to me. He started talking about dying so I came home and talked to him and let him stay downstairs. He kept saying that I was the only person that loved him.

Next morning, he tells me he wants us to work it out. I asked him if he had been in contact with her and he said "YES for a few days" and that he needs help and what do we do. To be honest, I am so fed up with this contact. So, I let him sweat it out and didn't give him an answer about wanting to try with him. But in the end I said I would and we sent a NC email that he wrote and I read.

I want to follow MB to the letter, what do I do from here?

Call the Harleys.

God's Blessings,

Say

H will not participate in that. They can councel me individually though can't they? I know I need to set the bar higher for him. I cannot keep going through this. I really hope that exposure to his parents helped. Right now he doesn't want anything to do with them and doesn't understand how they have no support for him. He realizes what he did was wrong, but he wants some kind of support from them.

H is in no position to bargain. Set the bar high, Hope. Tell him exactly what you expect from him in order for you to be willing to continue in the M. Then write it down. This is a crucial bargaining time and the window of opportunity is small. I wish that councseling with the Hraleys had been my condition to stay in the M.We have R but more slowly and painfully with more setbacks. You drive the R bus. He had his driving turn during the A.

If he does not agree...there is always Mommy's house.

God's Blessings,

Say

I agree he isn't in a position to bargain about talking with the MB coach.

If he wants to work with you to get through this he does it, or he goes someplace else. His choice. You offer him the choice and he gets his choice (talk with them and work with you and them or be gone).

Easy for us to say but it looks like the logical place for you to be.

That is good advice thanks. Have any of you tried calling the Dr? I am just wondering what to expect?

I am feeling very anxious and scared all in one. These FR are becoming to easy for him-and part of that is my fault- I didn't set the bar high.

I also told him yesterday that he should read posts and info from this site, in hopes that maybe something will reach him. He isn't the man I know anymore. There is a thread here of a WW trying to move forward, I think the info would help him. I have told him about the Wayward ways, the fog, the withdrawal, and a part of him believes it. The OW knows just what to say to him to tear at this heart. He has this new obsession with happiness, and thinks that he has never been happy, bla bla. She text him yesterday after the email and said how he will be missing his "true entire happiness" by leaving her.

I hope that the exposure to his parents will help open his eyes. He said that he did, but I still see that blank look. It also worries me how he is so upset to not have his parents support. He is totally OK that I was their first concern, but he thinks that "his image" to his family was their second. That was not the case.

In the back of my mind I think that its going to come down to me making him leave and going to Plan B. Although, Saturday was the closest we had to that, I never asked him to leave before. I even packed his clothes. Our friends that seen him said he looked terrible, and I asked him if he was hoping I would take him back and he said yes.

He did tell me that while he was in contact with her he was planning to leave me. Even though he said he didn't think he could do it. This is so frustrating. I never thought another person would have so much influence over him. UGH!!!

Hope, it is never a good idea to bring a WS into the forums if they are not totally committed to R. You will lose your best tool to save your M as well as your support system if he comes here while he is still so fogged out.

What EPs have you put in place. He should not be able to get texts from her. Block her #, change his#, swap phones with him but do not make it easy for her to get through to him.

Are you willing to state your requirements for R and then go straight to Plan B if he refuses any of them. If not, you are just setting yourself up for more abuse. Your anxiety is understandable.

I have not counseled with them, Hops, wish I had but from what everyone has said, they are very accomodating and will probably talk only to you first. They do not counsel you together.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks- that is so true about bringing him here.

I am ready to lay out a plan and go to Plan B if he doesn't want to follow.

Dumb question ,what is an EP? Unfortuately we cannot block her number with our carrier and he cannot change his number for work.

One requirement that I wanted all along is to fill out the emotional needs survey. Is that pointless to do while he is in this fog?

OMG, he sent the NC letter to OW and she texted back that he is missing his one true love? And then you let him stay?

Please, please call the Harleys even if it is just for one appointment. You are headed very quickly to where I was, I just didn't give a SH*T anymore.

Believer, he didn't text back to her. He showed me and deleted it. She always texts us when we sent a letter to her. What should I have done if I already said I was willing to try? I am just curious so I don't make the same mistakes.

I really want him back, but if he continues to do this I am out. I am planning to go home today with a list of my expectations for R and what I think needs to happen. Here are my thoughts:

1) NO NO NO CONTACt
2) Emotional Needs Questionaire
3) MORE Quality Time together.

Is there something important that i am missing that should be added? Sorry my mind is fried.

Believer, your input is always appreciated please help me figure out where I am headed.

Hopeful, are you sure you cannot block the OW's #? Also, is he communicating with her on a computer at home? If so, the computer needs to be off limits for him.

Is the OW married? Are there any other potential targets who don't know about the affair?

We cannot block an individual number, I work for the cell company. (wish I could block her!) No, he isn't using any computer at home, he was using the one at his work to do this so I can't even install a keylogger.

The OW is not married, she is 24 and lives at home with her parents. The only other person that may not know is her abusive father. Her mother knows everything.

Hopeful, filling out the EN questionaire is a waste of time right now. The first order of business will be to change the environment that led to the affair, ie: cut off his computer access, block the OW's texts, things like that. [frame this in a way that puts the onus on him to affair proof the marriage] Is the OW married? Does she have a facebook page? Has the affair been exposed to her side?

Another condition will be to have him counsel with Steve Harley. I would lay this all out to him like this:

Joe, I am not willing to live like this another day. I would rather be alone than live with your affair. It is too painful. This is what it will take to motivate me to try with you, otherwise, I would like you to leave:

1. affair proof our marriage and ensure that all contact is cut off between you and the OW. That means no more computer time and blocking her # from your phone. You will have to figure this out and ASSURE ME that this is enough to keep her out. Complete transparency and no leisure time apart

2. phone coaching with Steve Harley from Marriage Builders. I am not willing to stay in a loveless, unhappy marriage, so you will have to work with him to find out how to make me happy

3. commit to spending 20+ hours together with undivided attention

That is what it will take to get me interested. I am not settling for crumbs anymore.

I would call her father. Does she have a facebook account? What does the mother say about all this? Have you spoken to her?

When he confessed to talking to her, I looked at him and said "can you honestly look at me and tell me this is not an addiction?" His response was no.

He said that he realizes this is a problem. She contacted his parents and brother on facebook, and his father read the message to him. (It was disgusting). She told him that she didn't write this message, it must have been me. He said that made him realize she was lying to him all along.

I am not sure if I should take this as a "good sign" as I know the fog takes over and clouds his thoughts.

But you could both go to Human Resources and tell them about the affair and ask that MSN messenger be blocked from his computer.

What was the message?

No, her mother called me from his phone and hung up. (this was a few weeks ago) Her mother told her that if she continues this she will not have anything else to do with her.

Her facebook account is blocked so you cannot find her under search. I do know some of her friends names so I can find them. I really worry about this girl, she is really a wacko. (seriously) She is also involved with another married man.

My worry about calling her father is that he is abusive and crazy. He could show up at our door. I also worry that this will cause contact between them again, because I know for sure she will call or text my H and I think he will be pissed. (he has no right I know)

I see what you mean about the questionaire. Good Point.

oh, do I write him a letter or do we talk about this in person? (The list of requirements)

The message was that their son is a lowlife and has been involved with her, that he ended things to be with his [censored] of a wife, that he didn't want his parents to know but f**k him...

that sort of thing.

hopeful, just so you know, there are so many screen names with "hope" "hopeful" that I can never keep their stories straight. You might want to change your name to something more unique if you want to get more help. I have posted before to people named "hopexxxx" and never post again because I can't ever tell which "hopexxxx" they are.

Anyway, one thing I would do for certain TODAY is expose the hell out of this affair. I am CONFUSED why this wasn't done earlier, because you would likely be much further along now if you had. You have some great opportunities such as her father and her facebook friends. Are there any other exposure targets? Close family or friends?

He could also jump over the moon. You have no idea how he will react. I would expose the affair to the father, CALL THE MOTHER AGAIN, and get the OW's list of facebook friends. Then send a letter to the OW's facebook friends, via email that goes something like this:

Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.
I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.
Thank you, BW

I will change my screenname. Thanks!

I now know that exposure is the key. Unfortunately at the time, I felt ashamed, like there was something wrong with ME. So I kept it hidden. After finding MB I realized so much, and I thought that we were heading to R, and that there was NC so I thought if I exposed then, it would lead to a disaster.

There is no one else to expose too. Our friends and family know and so does hers. She has even lost friends because of this. She is truly a vindictive person, she is even threatening to have me fired. Although I cannot see how, I never changed anything on her cell account, I just look at who she texts, etc.

LOVE the letter!

Call her father and her mother. Can you get the list of her facebook friends from someone who can see her fb?

Most importantly I would be thinking of effective ways your H can affair proof your marriage so this doesn't happen again. Obviously he cannot continue to IM the skank from work. That will have to end even if he has to find a new job.

Yes you are right, we have talked about him changing jobs. No one can see her on FB, she is like me, totally blocked out.

I will call her parents and just tell them we are trying to R and to please have her stop the threats and calls.

I changed my username so I hope that helps!

Melody- Did you council with the Drs?

much better!!


We went to the Marriage Builders weekend. In your case, I think Steve Harley would be the best solution because he can PERSUADE your H to invest in the marriage again using his plan. Your H needs motivation and Steve is the best.

thats excellent advice. I dont want to give up on him, but I think he is in such a deep fog that this may happen again. He assures me that he wants to try and he knows that it will be hard, but he doesn't know what to do to get the ball rolling.

And I don't want to pressure him or use LB's like I did in the past. Right now, I am trying to not talk about the feelings I have that he will do this again because to be honest, I don't think that will help him. Am I right?

new, you need to tell him what I told you. Write it out and tell him just what I said. The pressure NEEDS TO BE INTENSE. It is time to turn up the FIRE under his [censored].

For today, I would call the OW's mother and dad and ask for their help in stopping their daughter. REad to them the horrible email she sent to his parents. Better yet, would your MIL call them?

Secondly, I would call and get an appt with Steve Harley for yourself. He won't counsel you together anyway so you don't need your H to commit to an appt now, he just has to agree to counseling with him in the future.

And lastly, I would write out your talking points and have a discussion with your H when he gets home outlining the conditions under which you are willing to go forward.

Thanks for your advice again. I will follow. My MIL may call them she is soooo upset right now she may end up screaming! LOL

Your MIL can be a great help! She can call the OW's parents and have a chat with her son. If my son was acting so trashy, he would get my boot in his butt!

I like ML's list of requirements very much. I'd write them down and have you both sign it. That way later on he can't say "Oh, I thought you said..." and he WILL try to weasel out of some of it. It's human nature, plain and simple.

Regarding OW contacting him at work... he needs to go to HR (and you can go with him if he wants the support) and tell them of his affair and request a new phone number. Also he can request that chat programs (AOL, MSN, etc.) be blocked to his desktop.

He can put a rule on his email that automatically forwards any emails from Skanky to HR, or you, or the emails can be permanently deleted w/o him seeing them (NOT put in the wastebasket, but *deleted*).

These are all ideas for if you hit a brick wall... but I'd put the onus on HIM to come up with ways to ensure NC. Tell HIM to figure out how he's going to enforce it (and be sure he knows that willpower ain't gonna cut it) and to let you know when he's taken action to ensure she cannot contact him any more.

The thing is, you don't want to shove this down his throat and have him resent you for it. You want him to own his behavior, and to come up with ideas for how to change this dynamic. Then he'll have buy-in, and be more likely to stick with the program.

One thing I've noticed is you do a LOT of relationship talk with your H. Cut that out, yesterday! There will be plenty of time for relationship talk and mending all broken things. Right now you should be in Plan A which means expose, meet ENs, and avoid LBs. Relationship talk with a wayward is a big fat DJ. You are assuming you know what he feels. You are assuming you have the answers (MarriageBuilders) and he doesn't. You will empty out his love bank in no time flat if you keep on talking relationship talk with him. So cut it out.

newsf, here is the message you should send to the OW and your WS. Smile sweetly when you send this:

Good ideas! And new, let him know this is one of the ways he can reassure you. If he has a better idea, you are open to that! But if he does this grudgingly, let him know that is NOT CONVINCING!!

If he cries about how "I have to do this????" Politely say, "oh no!! you don't have to do anything!! But neither do I have to stay in a marriage where I am not safe. It is up to you to ensure my safety."

Just let him know you are not interested in another false recovery so it will be up to him to PROVE his fidelity.

new, if he won't agree your DEMANDS, then I would ask him to leave. You have absolutely nothing to lose, but you have ALOT to lose if he stays and you continue this way. Plan A is only supposed to be for 3 to 4 weeks and you are way beyond that.

In fact, you might have a plan B letter ready today and ask him to leave if he won't agree to your terms. Say, in that case, I would like you to leave. As he is leaving, hand him the letter.

[there is template letter in SAA]

you are completely right- I do ALOT of relationship talk. That will stop right now. I wish I found you all sooner.

Melody- LOVE LOVE LOVE The video! You brightened my day! And yes you are right, its time he prove that he means what he is saying. Its time he is accountable and he put actions in place to ensure my safety. He has abused the love I have for him and the trust he has had for the past 15 years.

He will for sure say "I have to do this?". I can see that one coming a mile away. He didn't realize what false recovery was until yesterday....STUPID FOG! I asked him and he said he had no idea.

So I looked at him and politely said, "Its when you lead me to believe we are on the road to recovering and having the marriage we always dreamed of, and are lying to me the whole time". His face just looked dumbfounded.

You are right, PLan A should only be a few weeks, but I honestly only tried this for the past week. Prior to that I was so full of anger I just wanted to make him miserable for doing this, so all I did was LB LB LB. Boy was I wrong. BUT now I have the resources and support I need to do this the right way.

Oh and his mother and father put so much pressure on him that he refuses to take their calls right now. His mother LOST IT and I mean yelled cried, screamed, all of it. She kept saying "how can you do this to someone who treated you so good for all those years" and "There must be something wrong with you"

Of course, now that you are enlightened, you won't be having these talks until after the affair is busted up good and he's mostly through withdrawal.

Definitely make a little list like ML suggested.

That way after he's really done NC for 6 weeks or so and you bring up counseling, he can't whine and weasel out of it. You can pull out your little "contract" (seriously, I'd get him to sign or initial it when he's in a good mood) and remind him that he agreed to counseling.

It may have taken you a while to find MB and "get" it but I must say you're definitely jumping right in with both feet now.

Remember to send MIL a batch of her favorite cookies... or something!

Thanks turtlehead! That makes me feel better. And no more relationship talk!!! It will be hard, I am an analyzer and he isn't, but I will stop. Instead I will write in a journal! Or put money in a jar everytime I want to "talk" about us and how we are doing. LOL

MIL is awesome! I am worried about their relationship- he does not want to talk to her at all and she pretty much said she feels the same way. I hope that will change. I know I did the right thing by telling them, I just hope he can see that someday.

It *will* change. They'll both calm down and put this behind him after WH steps up and does the right thing.

Any time you want to talk relationship talk, meet one of his ENs instead. When your mouth opens up or your fingers reach for that keyboard, let admiration come out instead of relationship talk.

Or get tickets to his favorite activity. Make reservations at his favorite place. Buy some new lingerie.

I like the journal idea *and* the money-in-a-jar idea!

new, don't use terms like fog or false recovery to him. That is an attempt to educate him. Ask yourself if you would try to educate a falling down drunk? It is a waste of time. The only thing your H will respond to is a FIRM hand and STRONG boundaries. If you lower the bar, he will live down to your expectations, if you raise the bar he will either live up to your standards or he will get out. Either way you lose nothing by going wtih the latter strategy.

If he says "I HAVE TO DO THIS?!!" Say "oh no!! you have to do nothing. This is entirely voluntary!! This is just what it will take to keep me in this marriage. You can take it or leave it. If you don't want to do this, then I would understand that you are choosing to not stay in the marriage and would ask that you leave. I will be sad, but I fully understand this is your choice!"

Good!! What else is he going to lose over this sleazebag STD ho?? The more conflict the higher the price.

new, your job is cause MASSIVE CONFLICT in that affair.

DID YOU CALL HER FATHER AND MOTHER??

GOod points, I haven't called them yet, I am still at work. WOW you guys are great!

and you are very right about educating....that is a LB for me. He even said that it sounded like i lectured him so I am working on that. Its funny what you learn about yourself during this whole process.

Ok, I tried calling them they hung up on me. Should I mail a letter to them?

Brilliant.
Memorize this.

Send it certified so one of them has to sign for it. That way it can't be intercepted by skankho.

BRILLIANT!! Love the SKANKho term....! I will send one for sure.

Just don't call her that in the letter.

CRAP! I really wanted too...just kidding, I would love to tell them about their skankho of a daughter and how she sends naked pics of herself to married men but I will refrain....:(

Be sure and tell how she sent naked pictures to your husband! They need to know that.

I will do that part for sure. I think they should know what exactly happened.

H just called me to see how my day was going. He was offered a training job in Texas (we are in Canada) that would be 8 weeks. He told me that he feels that he cannot do this, as we need time together to get over this, and he said he is completely OK with that. That is a good sign right?

He keeps reassuring me that this time he will beat it, this time he will not go back, he "sees" how she manipulated him: had someone call me to say it was her boyfriend, to make him jealous, etc. (she was actually in the background during that call WHAT A CHILD SHE IS!), her lies, etc.

ok, do you have your talking points all ready to give him your conditions?

Just a little morale booster!

hee hee...I do. We have company over today but when they leave I am. I just got off the phone with MIL she is still so hurt. She can't even speak properly. She said "I'm not done with him yet". She told him that if he ever leaves me to go to OW than he is no longer her son!

As well I just learned that his brothers plan on sitting him down for a chat! Fingers crossed this exposure works!

Good deal! Exposure causes huge conflict in affairs as you can see! You have him on the ropes, new, now close the deal!

The more people who talk to him about his sleazy affair, the more reality will intrude. Keep up the good work!

p.s. expect your H to be furious about your exposure. Dont' let it bother you one bit..

I'm jealous, I wish my WH had your WH's mom for a MIL... I love my MIL but she just doesn't get her son, who is acting just like his dad, BTW.... I wish I had your WH's bro too! Although my SIL is standing by me but I know WH wouldn't listen to a word she says, he has no respect for her cause she's the "favorite child"... ok done hijacking the thread, just wanted to say I wish I had your in-laws!

YEAH FOR THE IN-LAWS. WOOOHOOOOOO

SoL and Yours are GREAT.

Thanks everyone! They truly are. I have all of their support 100%. So much so that my H is terrified to talk to his mother. My MIL and FIL emailed OW but the email didn't go through for some reason.

THEY ARE AWESOME. I wish I knew the power of exposure sooner but at least I learned! H was upset, but he is getting over that. I really hope that I will not have to go to PLAN B, but I am fully aware that it may have to happen.

We had our friends and 1 BIL over for supper and games tonight and it was great. I think I will focus time this week doing these things as it really does make H happy. (I will of course schedule alone time too) I really think he needs to open his eyes and see just how wonderful his life can be.

Thanks again for all of your support!

Hope, if you are putting off presenting him with your conditions for R you are making a huge mistake. He will be perfectly content to proceed as though nothing has happened. He dodged a bullet over the weekend and he feels safe now. Don't set yourself up for more abuse.

God's Blessings,

Say

Thanks Say! I am going to present this to him today. BIL stayed over at our house last night so it was impossible to do. But I do see that he dodged a bullet and plan to nip that in the a$$!

Can I get some feedback as to what to expect from him? What other WS have done when presented this with? I just want to go into this prepared. THanks!

They are all over the map.

He might resist, indicating he's still wayward thinking -- not necessarily that he wants to run off into the sunset with some OW, but that his focus is on himself and his attitude is a selfish one. This can change if he desires to change it.

He might agree instantly. Then he might only play along for a week or three, or he might jump into the program heart and soul and become a MB poster boy.

They really are all over the map.

I'd just make a very short list, with things like:
NC with OW for life
Complete and total transparency and accountability
Counseling in a program of my choosing

Then tell him that you love him dearly. Tell him you want a great marriage with him. Tell him you are NOT willing to settle for crumbs or a less than spectacular marriage. Give him the list and tell him this is what you expect from him, and that you are willing to do whatever he needs you to do in order to build a wonderful marriage with him.

I'd personally move on to something really fun then. Tell him he has a couple of days to think things over, and that you'll talk about it some more on Thursday, but right now you would love to go bowling or take a walk or help him polish his motorcycle or whatever you think he'll find fun, relaxing, and enjoyable.

Great advice turtlehead! And you're right the list has to be short. I am not settling for crumbs anymore. I don't deserve too, and neither does anyone else on these boards.

Its funny how something that rips apart your life can build you up to be a stronger person- FOR YOURSELF. I do want the best possible marriage and I do want that with him. I want the alien to leave his body and for the light inside him to shine through again. And I will do whatever I have to do to get that. Thanks so much!

So H just called me on his way to work to see how my morning is going. (No more relationship talk, and so far I am doing good!)

I had mentioned that I am very tired, (work is tiring too, I am filling in for manager as well as my own position) and he said "rightfully so we have both been through hell". I am trying to steer clear of relationship talk, but if he wants to talk about his withdrawal do I proceed to listen or change the subject?

He said in a happy tone, "I am doing good so far". (Its been 2 days since the email) and I agreed, he is, but thought to myself that he usually has a hard time around day 5 and gives in and contacts her. BUT I will not say that to him, as I think that will not help. (I did say that to him in the past). He told me that when he does think of "that other person" he replaces those thoughts and wonderings with all the lies she told him. I said that was a good idea and he should also replace that with a positive thought about us. He said that is no concern because I am always in his thoughts.

I then changed the subject to going to a movie tonight. I am really trying VERY hard to stop all LB's, I do have a few to get over, did I do the right thing in handling this conversation or should i have encouraged him to talk more about how he is feeling? I am trying to STOP ALL RELATIONSHIP talk as we all know that is my downfall.

I appreciate your feedback.

I think you did GREAT.

You want him to feel safe talking to you; you don't want this to turn into the elephant under the carpet that nobody talks about. At the same time you want to give him space to get through withdrawal before you jump into all that R-talk. So I think you did fantastic.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!! I want to follow all the advice you all give and I am so grateful to have found this website and very grateful that I finally had the courage to post.

Here's a quick question: What do I do when H sounds depressed from the withdrawal? Do I ask him about it, or just try to get him engaged in something fun? I just need some ideas because I know from past experience that this will happen soon, and I do not want to follow past mistakes and pressure him to talk or let it get me down.

I want to go into this and tackle the withdrawal properly so it never has to show its ugly face again!

*bump*

Well in my case - WH cried and said he missed her so I gave him comfort and he later turned that around into thinking I was "messed up" because I was willing to be there for comfort for him when he was down. Maybe your husband would respond better?

My approach now ..... don't even bother. He can deal with that in his own head. Just be the best wife YOU can be!

new, I would have that talk with him TONIGHT about what it will take to recover your marriage and what you will accept. Get that out there NOW and don't sweep it under the carpet.

I will. He just called to tell me that OW just text him and said that she lost everything. He did not respond. He said that he feels like she is trying to manipulate him into creating another email.

HE IS STILL IN CONTACT WITH THE OW. This is the problem. As long as she continues to contact him, the affair is in play.

Until he STOPS this contact, there is no hope, new. It is up to him to block her contact.

New, you need to make it clear that unless and until he stops this from happening, he needs to MOVE OUT.

Thanks! I gave him my list and he agreed to everything but there is one that we cannot do and that is change his phone number. It is a work phone and cannot be changed as his company will not allow it. Melody I see what you are saying, but his work WILL NOT change the number. He is more than willing to give me his phone, and he calls me as soon as he receives something from her. If we do not respond will she give up?

I talked to him about the texts and he said that he did not respond, as I know he didnt but I told him it is worrysome for me because she can influence him into emailing her. He doesnt agree but that is no surprise.

I did not yell coach or lecture. I told him that I am willing to do anything to save us, but if it doesn't work than I will walk away knowing that I tried my best. his reply was "stop threatening me". He always gets defensive, that is what makes me angry. I told him that it was not a threat, I just needed him to know how I felt in case it should ever happen again, he cannot ask me to try again knowing this. (Hope that makes sense)

The texting really worries me, he thinks she will start texting me soon which of course will happen, but I can handle her better than him. He said that he is going to do whatever it takes to never have contact, and that he means it this time. Don't worry, I know not to invest in that.

I am going to install a keylogger on our home computer. I found his hidden work laptop at home last time so he will not bring it here again. He starts his days off on Wednesday so if he is going to contact her it will be from the home computer.

The conversation wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but it was not pleasent either. He wasn't too happy as I insisted on the number change although I knew it couldn't happen. Any ideas?

He is more than willing to spend more UA together and do more activities together. That is a good thing. But I am not convinced that I will not find another email address. That concerns me.

This will not DO. Every text will trigger him and pretty soon he will be back in contact. Calling you when he recieves something will not solve the problem.

Even if he has to go to his boss and get a different #, that is what he should do, new. This will not do.

Why won't he bring the laptop home?

New, is it possible for him to switch phones with someone else? Have YOU talked to the company YOURSELF about changing the number and explained why it is necessary?

good job!

Thanks for all of your input. Here are answers to your questions:

1) The work laptop is supposed to stay with this work truck AT WORK. It was company violation to remove it from the premises. However with that being said, I plan to ask him to bring it home sometime this week and see how willing he is to do this.

2)Company Phone- They will not change the number, I have spoken to them. The company is a HUGE company, and million dollar jobs depend on him having that number.

3) He is willing to swap phones with me if I ask.

I have HUGE red flags going off right now. I went home yesterday after her text and he was on the computer. He just sat down to it. BUT he was acting nervous. He told me that he was going to surprise me with an email. I DON'T BUY IT.

After this, was when I gave him my list. And installed the keylogger. I really feel that he was getting ready to email her to tell her to stop texting him.

After the talk about the list, etc he became very withdrawn. All night. So, I think he is going to contact her today. He starts his week off today so I am going to keep a close eye on things.

I know I can go right into PLAN B but the truth is I need more time to do a solid Plan A. I need to show him what he is giving up. Not the crazy wacko I have been over the past year. And no, this isn't my fault, but I have had major mood swings and LOTS of LB's.

Hope this clears up some questions. I was thinking of texting my BIL and letting him know that I think he is going to contact her today but I do not want to put him in the middle. (My BIL an H work together) What do you think?

You only need about 1 more hour to do a solid Plan A. Plan A is simply your committment to meet his needs in the FUTURE if he ends his affair. Thats all it is. You can't actually meet his needs while he is in an affair anyway.

It is time to go in to Plan B now, because his affair has gone on so long that it is driving you crazy. That is WHY you have lovebusted him. Any more of this state of affairs and you will go postal. One of the reasons the affair has gone on so long is because there has been no consequences.

So i take it he KNOWS about the keylogger?

This phone can't be swapped with another employee? Does his boss know about the affair and has he been asked?

No he has no idea about the keylogger. I want solid proof that he is talking to her again.

The reason this affair has gone on so long is because she continues to call his work #. This is why this has to be a condition for recovery, new. That has to be fixed. This will not work as long as she is free to call his work phone. As you can see, every text pulls him right back.

I agree with you 100%, but what can I do if his work will not change it?

I changed my number months ago because she was texting me. I wish I hadnt because here we are months later and I have a new #.

I want to talk to his brother but will that be putting him in the middle?

Sure! That is a good idea to put as many people in the middle as you can.

And I would go with him to his boss and see about getting the phone changed out. That is in their best interest too. I work for a Fortune 500 company and that is how we would handle it. They don't want crazy embittered OW harassing their employees.

Another thing you can do is file a RO against her. Do you have an attorney?

new, here is the thing, as you can see, contact will never end as long as the OW can contact him in any way. Her text yesterday just triggered him. And it will keep him triggered.

This is why I said to put this in as a condition. Because this is hopeless without it. He is going to have to block all access even if he has to leave that job. If he can't figure out how to get another phone # at work, he is going to have to find another job.

Great point. What is an RO? No I don't have an attorney.

oh nevermind, restraining order..gotcha.

If he has already sent a No Contact letter I suggest sending another via certified mail return receipt requested along with sending it regular mail. If she refuses the certified mail and the regular mail does not come back as refused, that is proof to a court that she received the letter. In that letter I would put a PS on it stating that you intend to prosecute her for "stalking and harassment" if she continues to contact your husband (he actually needs to say this).

Then, if she continues, you can go to the Police Department and file a complaint with your letter as proof that she has been warned. More than likely you could get a protective order based on that.

Someone who has "lost everything" (according to her) has the potential of going off the deep end since she has nothing left to lose.