I cannot even believe I am here.

Where to start? Met in late 2000, married 10 years. Anniversary is coming in 9 days. 6/1 was D Day. He has a 16 year old daughter, who I have been step-mom to since she was 4. We do not have children, just 2 dogs. I am 42 years old, He is 45. We have custody of his daughter, and she says I am the only mom she's got. Hers bailed on her and capitulates to an abusive husband who terrorized my step daughter for nearly 10 years.

His first marriage: College sweetheart. Dated 3 years, married 7. He was communicating via email with some woman, got caught. Stopped. She could not forgive him. He had a 1 night stand affair with their friend. Marriage ended. 1 year later, I met him.

His family was rather unkind and rejected me. They were angry with him because he cheated on his ex. Nothing to do with me, just happened to be his GF. This went on for years. It affected our marriage. I withdrew. Became chilly, hard-edged.

He began traveling to DC to work for Dept of Homeland Security. Was gone Monday thru Friday for almost a year. It affected our marriage. I found receipts in his old laptop case for 'dinner for 2' throughout. I accused him, he denied. I did not believe him, but did not continue to argue. That dark period was over and things were smoothing out, or so I thought.

We are a little distant to each other in subsequent years. I begin to have some general malaise feelings last few years. Very stiff, fatigued, sometimes irritable. Gawd-awful migraines. Found out 1/25/12 I have MS. Devestated. Extreme vertigo, walk with a cane, numb on right side. Tired a lot.

Fast forward to 6/1. My husband likes to play blues guitar. He goes to open jam to play with bands twice a week. He begins going more. Every night. I ask him when he will spend time with me, he says he is blowing off steam from his high pressure job. I don't nag. In fact, my demeanor is better since diagnosis. I have a name for the ugly face called Multiple Sclerosis and I am treating the symptoms and the disease. Still, his daughter and I tell him he goes out too much. He needs to stay home with us. He actually became sullen. I ask what's wrong? He gives me the old "I love you, but I am not IN love with you." Well, that begs the question "Then WHO are you in love with, Mark?"

Of course he denied, denied, denied. 6/2 in the am I tell him I know about his extra-curricular activities and it is inappropriate. He tells me we should (get ready) stay married, and I can live here and be a step-mom to M, and he can do what he wants because, you know, he's happy now. Don't his feelings count? I told him his weird open relationship arrangement is not going to work for me and I freak out.

I cannot believe he is throwing away 10 years where I helped him raise his daughter, rescue her from an abusive home, step in as mother to her. I race home each day to see my husband. He has some unsavory characteristics, but I still love him. Never would have walked away from this marriage.

He will *NOT* stop seeing this lady. I told him he should be thinking about saving our marriage. He says he is *IN LOVE* with this lady. She is married, too, btw. and I am 'thisclose' to calling her husband. My coworker said she would do it. I'll write out a script for her. I told him his affair hurts my feelings and is disrespectful toward me. He agrees to not see her, but will not stop communicating with her. I think he has seen her. He went out a few nights to the open jam and has found reasons to run errands on her side of town. I told his WHOLE family and mine. Now I'm onto our mutual friends.

He sees his attorney the other day. He comes home very down and depressed. *I am laughing* His attorney told him he will have to pay me $30k out of his 401k, and $1k - $2 per month for 3.5 years in alimony. He actually said "And I trashed our relationship, too." This was the first time I smiled in 3 weeks. Oh, and his massive debt he accumulated during our move and suing his ex for custody? All his alone, because it's in his name. He does go to individual counseling with the lady ONCE I chose as our marital counselor. He will not attend marital counseling because he's just so in love and doesn't think it's worth recovery/reconciliation with me. Evidently, she said some compelling things that made him think twice about the root of why he developed feelings for that lady. He is also downstairs right now reading HNHN on my nook. We both already read "After the Affair: Healing the Pain and Rebuilding the Trust".

I keep telling him I love him deeply and want to work on our marriage, but he is so cynical. He also brings up crap that happened early in our marriage that "I did". I have made amends and apologized for each incident he raised but I gently informed him he did things in our marriage also that contributed to the chilliness.

And he loves playing blues guitar and this lady sings in her own band so they cross paths A LOT. He does not think he can stop being in the local music community. We are doomed.

Hi Lisa, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that bring you here.

The best chance you have of saving your marriage is in exposing the affair wide and far. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing them is ruinous. If you can kill the affair, you have a chance to save your marriage. THAT is your very best hope. Please go read through the link in my signature and come back and lets talk strategy.

I would call the husband yourself. This call needs to come from you so you can team up with him. Addionally, I would find her facebook page and expose to all her facebook contacts via private message. Please read detailed instructions on how to do this on my exposure thread.

Melody. I am on board. I cannot do this tonite, I have to do it from work. I will contact this lady's H and father in law tomorrow. I will review his FB and see if there are friends that are not in the music community (all of them do not care, they have known about this since it began). He says November, but the psychic I saw said last summer they met. She also said this is not the first. She also said "Let him go, because he does not want to care for you with your illness"

I'm torn. Part of me wants to bail and run.

Sorry circumstances have led you here, but Welcome.
I just wanted to let you know that this gal is no "lady", Adultress- yes, Homewrecker-yes, Skank-yes, Lady- not anymore, she lost that distinction when she bumped uglies with your WH. The Lady is a Tramp. you already know that, you are just being very kind under the circumstanes. Again, Welcome GF

Lisa, you can always decide to bail and run, but you should kill the affair regardless of what you decide. I would expose to everyone on her facebook list because you never know who can get through to her. Her friends don't know that this is a married man, they only know the lies told my the OW and your WS. You should expose to everyone.

If she has a facebook page, I would copy and paste it into a word doc tonight for safe keeping.

p.s. I would warn you against doing a trickle exposure. You need to go LARGE here or you will you will just cause enough harm to piss off the affairees enough to come after you. You need to get your moneys worth and leave no stone unturned. Expose to the OW's parents, your children, your WS's parents, close friends and family.

Melody, unfortunately everyone decided to hide their friend list on FB. I am not wise in the ways of FB, so I kind of stumble around in it. I did mssg the husband and give a brief blurb about how his wife and my husband are planning a life together by dumping their spouses. Radio silence. No response.

His pic on FB is him and the two kids. Her pics are of the kids, never him. I wonder if they have some weird marriage arrangement where they are together for the kids, but not really.

My husband and I talked from 11:30 pm - 3:00 am Sunday night and he and I both agreed that after reading HNHN, we are more aware of what we have done to each other over the years. The book also helped me articulate and clarify WHY I behaved toward him the way I did. He said he was very confused and didn't know what to do. A small step in the right direction, after he was hell-bent on getting rid of me so he can pursue a 'relationship' with a married woman.

Then Monday he was cold toward me. In the evening, he spruced up, put on new clothes and said he was 'going out'. I am not stupid. I KNOW you are going to see her. He does this periodically since I found out, and basically runs out the door without saying goodbye.

Tonight, after he is done napping (after going out last night) we are going for sushi and having a talk. I think this talk will be where he tells me he doesn't want to work on our marriage and wants to put a plan in place to separate.

I have contacted a mortgage company and inquired what I have to do to qualify for a small condo $65-$75k. I also asked my mom if she can co-sign if needed. She is checking with her accountant and attorney to see if it's feasible. My dad has advanced Parkinson's and has to go into a nursing home soon. She might not be able to help me.

Right now, I hate my life. I have serious unintentional weight loss, which is good because I really needed to drop some weight.

LisaL77,

Exposure also removes the lifelong burden of keeping it all in out of undeserved shame on the part of the betrayed spouse.

It's like taking a bath for all parties involved.

God Bless
Gamma

Oh, yeah. I tell anyone who will listen. I will not participate in keeping his secret. I can't recruit anyone to help me.

His family said they do not wish to be involved, but they treat him very coldly, so I know where their sympathies lie. They just won't say anything to him about it. They made that mistake when he had an affair on his first wife, they ALL gave their opinion for YEARS and never let him live it down. Jeez, and that was a very brief fling and he is having a 9 month relationship outside of our marriage.

Do you have their home address? I would get the home address and drive over there. You can't give up so easily. Can you find her facebook list? Do you see the husbands facebook friend list? If so, you can find family members there.

You can't give up this easily, Lisa.

I can see his list, I think. I still cannot believe he did not respond to my message about his wife. I think they have some arrangement and he doesn't care.

Hi Lisa,
I am incredibly new here, but with so much people helping me, I feel like I want to try and help others too.

I strongly feel that exposure is the first step before anything else. It should be done completely and quickly to the friends/family of you, your husband, and this other woman. There are many other things to do and steps to take, but exposure is the first step that HAS to happen before anything else.

Good luck.

Then he shouldn't care if you drive over and tell him all about the affair. If he doesn't care, he can tell you to your face. I would copy and paste his list into a WORD doc. Go through the list and see if you can find his wife's relatives and his relatives. You can expose to them.

Can you not see the OW's facebook friend list?

Lisa, she could easily have intercepted that FB message.

They have been aware for some time you might do that.

Go over there. He is very likely being gaslighted just as you are.

Do the music friends who don't care have any idea that YOU care?

That 'open marriage where no one cares' idea? That's what he tells people the deal is with him and you.

They have the same 'she doesn't care' assumption you have about the BH.

Show them not only that you care but you are being abandoned to deal with your illness alone.

Even if they're stone dead inside, at the very least they will cut down social invites to keep them away from their own spouses and families.

LisaL77,

I will not participate in keeping his secret. I can't recruit anyone to help me.

Does his daughter know what is going on? You and his daughter should visit your WH and OW when they are on a date.

What about his work associates or clients?

The same for the OW.

God Bless
Gamma

Well no response from the OWH. I sent the same message to her father in law.

Radio silence from that guy. So I messaged him again and asked how he felt about his wife having unprotected sex with another man.

So last night my husband informed me he will be forming a band with this woman. She sings and he plays guitar. Nice! I am looking at condos. I am trying to adopt the 'what to do with an unfaithful husband' procedure of being as loving a wife as I can, not upsetting him in any way, gently reminding him I love him very much and doing this for 6 months. That is difficult. I told him if he spends time with her, I would like him to move out. Meanwhile, I am determining if I can get my own condo. I see my attorney on 7/5 to see how much alimony I'm entitled to.

Yes, you are doomed.

For as long as he goes out to play his music without you, and especially as long as he sees this woman, then your marriage is doomed. And now he wants to team up with her?

Follow the advice here...expose, especially to the other woman's husband. Do not "assume" he is OK with it unless you hear it straight from his mouth.

Here is a nearly universal truth. No amount of begging, pleading, educating, or counseling will get through to most waywards. They have to KNOW you will walk away if they continue the affair and won't change.

Right now your husband knows you will not.

You still allow him to talk and text her, even get dressed up to see her right under your nose.

You have to turn the tables, MB's does it with "plan B".

Lisa Dr. Harley does not recommend Plan A for wives longer than 3 weeks and 6 months for BH. BW's health will be affected. Can you go over to OW's BH and tell him to his face?

Carrot and Stick of Plan A

From here How To Survive An Affair

Also this What Are Plan A and Plan B

3 weeks is plenty! You don't have to rush to a D, but Plan B should not be far away.

Well, he told me this last night. This is his way of telling me we should be separated. So separated we shall be. He is not interested in reconciliation.

I read an article here about dealing with an unfaithful husband:

"The first step is to be the very best wife you can possibly be. Do everything you can to meet his needs, and don't do anything to upset him. Set a period of time that you think you can do this without getting too upset, say, six months. Once in a while, tell him that you think both of you need a fresh start somewhere else.

If he does not respond to your kindness and respectful suggestions within that period of time you're ready for the second step: pack up yourself and your children and move near your family and friends for their support. It should be far away from his lover -- another city or even another state. Have absolutely nothing to do with him. Don't talk to him, don't see him. "



I see my attorney 7/5 to discuss what alimony I am entitled to. The reason I am waiting until then? Our 10 year anniversary is in 2 days....Friday. I want the 10 year mark to pass before I pursue anything. Here in NY State, I can sue him for adultery so long as I have proof. I have some emails of him apologizing after I emailed him and mentioned how his affair hurt me. Know what else? I may sue HER for adultery. It's against the law here.

I am also getting pre-qualified for a mortgage. I put the wheels in motion today. I hope I have enough credit to qualify. Would you believe my WH actually offered to co-sign a mortgage for me? This is so he can have a line of communication and connection to me. Little does he and his daughter know, I am moving across town near my sister (and near the OW, incidentally). I lived in that town from '96 until last November, so she can go scratch.

I am going to start packing my china and Xmas decorations and schlepping them over to my sisters house. I will do this quietly and methodically when he goes out, like he is out tonight probably watching her stupid band play.

I am trying to be as loving a wife as I can be without upsetting him and committing love busters. I committed LOTS of love busters during our marriage and it's hard to break that. I'm trying.

Dr. H needs to update his articles. He originally recommended 6 months of Plan A for both genders. Most of his books still list Plan A that way. For a BH, that's still a good target to shoot for, somewhere in the 3-6 month range.

The BW's who tried to go that long were suffering too many physical and emotional side effects from prolonged exposure to CRAZY PEOPLE, so he shortened the recommended time for BW's to 3-6 weeks. That's been fairly recent, coming to the forefront in the last few years.

I am highly in favor of suing WS's and OP's anyplace they'll let you. Consequences are a natural part of Plan A and Plan B.

Lisa did you see this? Dr. Harley does not recommend 6 months of Plan A for BW but 3 weeks.

Brainhurts, I read one of his "What to do with an unfaithful husband letter #3" which stated to the BW to set aside, say, 6 months to practice the Plan A meeting EN and avoiding LBs.

I am a tough cookie. I think I can do this. Even though I have multiple sclerosis. I was the glue of this family. I am taking measures to ensure I can live independently, but I am now re-reading HNHN and I have several other books coming from Dr. H.

Are you getting the book Surviving An Affair?

Are you going to call the BH of OW or go over there?

You need to expose to this BH. Especially if your WH plans to be in a band with her. Your M will never recover.

Every time your WH sees OW the affair will be on. You need to make sure there is No contact between them for life.

lisa, you are reading an old, old article that Harley probably overlooked when he updated the other articles and his books. Plan A should only be 3 to 4 weeks TOPS for a woman. The reason is because a) women have nervous breakdowns from staying in Plan A for too long and b) your pursuit of him is very unattractive. It does not work with men. It just makes you look more unattractive.

So, I would get him moved out NOW so you can go right into Plan B. Plan A longer than 4 weeks is not recommended for a woman.

I would stop sending facebook messages and drive to his home like I advised. The OW is very likely intercepting your messages and has told her husband you are some kook by now. You need to get moving and take a more strategic approach towards exposure if it is to have any effect.

The primary reason for abandoning plan A for plan B is protection. The stress experienced in plan A (trying to care for someone too long who is hurting you more deeply than you ever have, or ever will, experience) can leave you physically and emotionally damaged. So the question each person must ask themselves is, "how tough am I?"

My experience is that men are tougher mentally and physically than women. By that, I mean that women seem to start falling apart emotionally and physically after just a few months, or even a few weeks, of plan A. Men, on the other hand, seem to be able to keep it up for years before experiencing health problems.

If I don't know a person too well, I tend to lean to the safe side by recommending 3-4 weeks of plan A for women, and 6 months for men. But if a woman is no worse for wear after a few weeks, or a man is feeling okay after 6 months, there's no reason to end plan A at that point. As you can see, it's inexact, and depends on how the person is doing. A good support system (like the support people often receive on the Forum) can often keep a person in plan A much longer.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubb...in=151015&Number=2069970#Post2069970

radio clip about Plan A and length of time: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2793

Tell me how many husbands you know who have this 'arrangement'. I don't know any.

I have his home phone at work, not at home. I will call him tomorrow at work if his secretary lets me through.

His family owns a health care group that owns a LOT of nursing homes in the area. If they break up, and there is no pre-nup, then he has a lot to lose.

I am considering hiring a private eye for photo evidence.

WHO SHOULD LEAVE THIS HOUSE? HIM OR ME? He pays all the household bills, I pay medical, groceries, gifts, incidentals, household supplies, etc. Also, his daughter lives here and may not want to stay if he leaves and I stay. I am currently trying to qualify for a mortgage NOW. I have to get a place that allows 2 dogs, they are going with ME.

Do you have any children?

I have a step-daughter, 16 years old who NEVER comes home anymore. She is uncomfortable because of this situation. She lives at friends houses since D-Day.

When are you calling the BH of OW?

Since that is his daughter, you might want to make plans to move out yourself. That way, she is not getting booted out of her home.

Ditto. Can't believe your husband is doing this to you and his daughter. Boggles the mind the choices waywards make.

Yeah, but I have multiple sclerosis and it's hard for me to move around, much less pack and move. I am trying to prequalify for a small mortgate.

I try calling this guy and left a voice mail at work. I will try at home when I know she is out playing with her band.

I said I have some sensitive, personal information to share with you that is very important.

This feels utterly hopeless.

Lisa, you can go and tell him when she is there. It would be ok.

The fact that you have MS makes it even more imperative that you get out of there. His abusive behavior will have a harmful impact on your emotional and physical health. Can you move in with a friend or relative until you get your own home?

Actually, we know someone personally who went over to the OW's house to tell the BH and was arrested for harrassment. I will not be stepping onto their property. Also they have 2 kids that the BH is with almost constantly.

I have a sister in town, but she has a full house.

I told WH it is customary for the WS to leave. I think he should leave. Not to mention he has 3 brothers and parents in town, but no one will speak to him, LOL.

Normally we advise the BS to make the WS leave. The main reason you received different advice was because of your DSD16.

I know how hard it is for you to get around with MS. You'll need to prioritize and not try to do everything at the same time. You need to expose first and pack later.

There had to have been more to the friend getting arrested for harassment than just dropping by to tell the BH and nothing more. Since you're concerned, though, what I would do is put together a packet of your proof in a sealed envelope. On it, write in big letters something eye-catching enough to get his attention, and generic enough not to traumatize the kids even worse if they see it first. Maybe "IMPORTANT INFORMATION ON WHAT YOUR WIFE HAS BEEN DOING". Go by when you know she's with WH, knock on the door, and leave. (If you can't walk very fast, take a fast walking friend with you to do the knocking.)

Do the same thing to the parents' house, on the same trip.

In this same time frame, send a letter to all the band members, CC'ing WH and OW.
From what you've said, chances are good that they won't actually speak up. No worries. Any family member that speaks up is just icing on the cake. The main substance comes from suddenly, everyone knowing what they're doing, and it's not their special little secret any more. And that last sentence about asking each friend and family member of both for support will have the adulterers all in a swivet.

Which is why your full exposure needs to be carried out quickly in the space of an hour or two (during the band performance was an awesome idea), and leave the band members for last.

Then turn your remaining energy to packing and finding somewhere to go. In your condition, I would even recommend staying with a friend for a night or two following exposure. And Mel's idea of staying with friends or family while you're looking for a place is a good idea. You just don't need this extra stress. You're doubtless strong enough to grit your teeth and make it through, but it's not good for you.

Expose
Pack

In that order.

Amen!

I DID IT! I SPOKE TO THE OW BH! WE ARE MEETING IN A PARKING LOT ON SATURDAY TO DISCUSS STRATEGY. I GUIDED HIM TO MB.COM AND TOLD HIM TO GET THE BOOK HNHN. HE KNEW SOMETHING WAS FISHY WHEN HE HEARD MY VOICE TREMBLING ON HIS VOICE MAIL. HE WAS NOT SHOCKED BUT IS DEVESTATED. I told him I waited for Fathers day to pass by so he could enjoy it.

Next, Im gonna facebook blast all their friends. My stupid husband told everyone hes divorced

I AM PROUD OF MYSELF

You go girl!!!!!!!

HNHN is important, but SAA will be even more help to BH. I hope he comes on here, as well.

No just don't do a trickle exposure. Do it like a bomb dropping.

Won't his friends be surprised to hear the truth? Still married!

You should be proud. Good job. You done good.

Also Lisa, in the exposure 101 thread there are all the templates for your facebook exposure letters and others.
Exposure 101

Be certain to safeguard his remarks (AKA lies) in a document.


As you should be !

You guys gave me bravery. I am crying.

I am facebook blasting tomorrow on my DAY OFF BECAUSE ITS OUR 10th ANNIVERSARY AND I REQUESTED IT A LONG TIME AGO. I will spend the day doing this. That witch has over 500 friends.

Good job brave Lisa.

We will be here. We had one poster expose to almost 700 facebook contacts. I don't know if you need to do that many though.

Read all the way through the exposure thread because at the end of thread it has an excellent idea about making a web page with the evidence. Check it out.

way to go lisa! you brave girl, you! well done! keep up the exposure. don't stop till you're done!

i wish you the very best of luck in your meeting with the BH. hopefully the two of you can kill this a!

Well, this blew up in my face. Turns out the OW BH is a **edit** and stands aside while she goes out and has affairs on him. He pretended he was hearing this for the first time, and wanted to meet me for coffee, and wanted to read through marriage builders website, and then two-facedely got on speakerphone with the OW and my husband and said I was a crazy woman who called him at work and he was 'shocked' I would do that. He didn't want me to know the details of their 'special arrangement' open marriage, so he feigned surprise. Then he threw me under the bus and told her right away that I called.

So, he evidently socializes with the guys his wife screws. Nice. My husband has blocked all of their phone numbers, the OW, OW BS, their home and work numbers from all our phones. I went onto verizon and double checked. Now I have to see about email and prepaid phones he may be hiding.

He has been talking suicide. He even took the shotgun and shells and went to a fishing spot. Actually had the barrel in his mouth, loaded. He has been talking about it alot. I call his brother every time he does this, and he got really angry. In fact, he has treated me like absoulte crap since the big reveal on D-Day of his affair. He is treating ME like I did something wrong. He even suspended my cell phone so I would not call his brother anymore. His brother called and bitched him out about that. Now he's controlling who I talk to, if I can use my phone.

Separation has crossed my mind. I am not sure how long I can take this baloney. His own brother told me to take care of myself because stress exacerbates my MS. He said to get out, get my own place since I do not feel safe all the time. My husband is very angry and depressed and is taking it out on me.

He was such a jerk Friday night, I spent the night in our old neighborhood in my car. He took all my MB books and threw them in the garage, damaging the binders. Then he went back out to collect them all and put them back on my nightstand.

Lisa, you need to get out sooner rather than later. What are the plans to get out of there? And can you go stay in a hotel or with a friend until you have a place?

Also, when your husband plays the suicide card, you should immediately call 911 and ask the police to come.

ITA!! don't let him manipulate you like that. take any suicidal-conversation as seriously as you would with anyone else. and call the police and have him put on a 5150 72 hour hold (do they still call it that there?) your state may call it something different, but if he verbalizes a threat to himself, they can take him to a psych ward and hold him for 72 hours while his mental state is assessed. this is a GOOD thing for him, not a punishment.

don't fret too much over the BH. now that you've told him, it's his deal. and perhaps he has been totally gaslighted by the WW. you did do the rest of the exposure, right? please say yes! and good on you, lisa.

Hey, finally I can be of use a little here (since I did do a year of psychiatry in residency). And we put lots of crazy people in 72 hr holds in the psych wards.

Yes, call the police. You will also want to tell them specifically that he HAS A PLAN (shooting himself), and that he HAS A MEANS (owns a gun). If your husband actually had any real attempts in the past, tell them that too, and for sure he will be held up in a psych ward for at least 72 hours.

If you just say he's suicidal, and the police arrive and then he denies it, then they won't do a thing. But if you do like I said, then they MUST take him in.

Using suicide as a way of manipulation is one of the worst gestures there is. It's gonna be too much stress for you, I think. You need to go plan B.

Oh, I forgot one more thing. Most states have a 'psychiatric hotline', or at least a 'suicide hotline'. You should call them too in addition to the police, and tell them what I said before, that he has a PLAN, a MEAN, previous attempts, etc.

The one who makes the ultimate decision to hold him in the psych ward (72 hr hold) is the psychiatrist. The police's job is just transport him to a hospital psych ED. Once there, the information may not be passed on, so by calling the 'psych hotline' there is a better chance the information will get passed on.

Also give the police your phone number; the reason being the psychiatrist on call will need to get collateral information to verify what the patient (wayward husband) says; that's where you can come in.

thanks, jah! that's excellent advice. i can't believe i didn't think to link you in. glad you found lisa.

No problem! So many people here trying to help me; I just want to help others too. I'm no expert in MB (yet!) but at least I'm good for some general advice on pediatrics and psychiatry.

Be sure to mention the part about him putting the gun in his mouth. Be very specific about that.

Three cheers for you on exposure! I may have said this before, but it's worth repeating. It doesn't matter how the exposure is received. The fact that it was done at all is what shines the light on the A, even if the exposees don't react well. Ya done good!

Thanks for the great tips, jah! Waywards who make threats of suicide typically are doing so to manipulate the situation to their advantage. BUT....who can tell if they are serious or not?

Therefore calling the police is a win/win from my perspective because if they are playing games, that should teach them to knock it off. And if they aren't, they will get the help they need.

I just read your thread.
Our cases have similarities. My wife met her affair partner, a guitarist she was going to be his vocalist.
Like your husband, she promised to stop seeing him. But she remained in contact. Eventually (within a month or so) she ended up spending a week at his house and "falling in love" with him.

There may be more to the demise of your husbands first marriage than you know.
Waywards are liars.

I would encourage you to buy a digital audio recorder (small one) from Beat buy (Sony makes a model for about $$80) and keep it on you and record whenever he is home. Record when you sleep. Don't tell him about the recorder. Don't tell anyone except your lawyer.

Does your husband know about this forum? Don't tell him anything about it anymore.

Make sure you read the exposure articles prior to exposure.

The Police will take your husbands guns into custody if you ask them to.

As for open marriage know this: the other woman husband is probably in an open marriage from what you described. He might be gay or biaexual or have girlfriends of his own. Most waywards WANT an open marriage. My wife wanted to be "roommates" similar to what your husband described. Even newt Gingrich had a wife ill with cancer and was havin an affair and wanted an open marriage. That is VERY COMMON desire among waywards.

Well, thanks for all the advice. I will use the HAS A PLAN, HAS THE MEANS tactic if I have to. He put the shotgun in my car. I may hide it somewhere 'off-site' if ya know what I mean. He is moving out. He is looking at condo/apts. I am glad because I have MS, walk with a cane, cannot pack to move, and I have two dogs that use a fenced in yard. It would be tough for me to walk them on a leash, since my right arm is numb and weak. It would be hard to find a rental that allows 2 dogs.

I never got to facebook tsunami everyone because he was next to me all weekend except for when I slept in the car. I have to say I am so glad he is leaving. My love bank is negative. It is VERY HARD to avoid Love Busters when he is being cruel and mean to ME since D-Day when HE had the affair. Waywards need a reality check.

He called her today supposedly to yell at her for lying to him about leaving her husband for him. Duh, she lies to her husband, she will lie to you.

Be prepared just in case he gets cold feet at the last moment when it's time to actually set foot out the door. You may need to insist that he leave. When it comes right down to it, what he most wants is both of you.

Get him out asap, and go into Plan B asap. Your own health is already delicate, and you will suffer far worse than the average BW if you put yourself through too much of this.

Guys, I need to brush up on Plan B. I will review my HNHN and AAA books.

Thank you all! I am psyched she has to deal with fallout at her end.

Even if they really do have an open M (GAG!!!) the fact that she hadn't told him yet means she didn't want him to know. Him knowing, even if he doesn't care, makes her uncomfortable. Her discomfort makes her want to lash out at WH, since he's somehow "responsible" for your actions.

That's why the whole spotlight thingy puts such pressure on the A just by being turned on. Suddenly they feel like everywhere they go, people are looking at them funny, whether they are or not. Exposure is a beautiful thing.

Lisa you need to copy her friends list into a word doc in case she blocks you.

Doing well honey, you're a fighter

Okay, he texted me and said his brother was not keen on him staying at his house after all. All his brothers appear to be disappointed in him. He is so pissed about that, too. What did ya expect?

So, I said what about your other brother? What about your parents? This showed him I mean business. He is staying at his parents and I saw on the phone records he was calling apartments. Good!

He left me a note:

Lisa,

I am very sorry I hurt you so badly and continue to do so. I'm taking this time to do a lot of thinking. I will stay here longer tomorrow evening after getting settled at my moms.

Um, no thanks.

I found Plan B in my Surviving an Affair book. I am going to write him the letter and inform him I need No Contact, if he is here visiting his daughter, great. I'll hole up in my room.

OF COURSE I put all their facebook people in a word doc. I'm brushing up on my Plan B. I have emailed the letter:

My Dearest WH:

I am very sorry for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with AP possible. I did not understand my responsibility in meeting all of your emotional needs.

I am willing to avoid the mistakes I've made in the past and create a new life for both of us that meet both of our emotional needs, but I cannot do this until you completely sever your relationship with AP once and for all.

Until then, I need to avoid seeing you or talking to you. You can come here any time you like to see DD or handle household issues, but I will give you space and keep my distance. I'm asking you to respect my decision to detach and separate from you this way. You must know how much pain and suffering I endure because of your relationship with AP. I can't socialize with you or fill in a' family member' gap knowing you are still communicating with AP and telling me how much you want to be single. I still love you, but cannot see you under these conditions.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from AP and commit to recovering our marriage and follow the measures to ensure total separation, I will be very willing to discuss our future together.


I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. I want to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. I want us to be able to make each other happy, and there will not be a reason for us to separate.

I loved you on our wedding day and I love you to this day. I just cannot be with you or socialize with you as long as you are seeing/communicating with AP and telling me how you strongly desire to be unmarried.

With all my love,

Lisa

He's calling and texting if I want dinner. OMG.

I would caution against being home when he visits his DD. He can pick her up and go elsewhere.


Radio clip on open marriages.
Radio clip on open marriages
Segment #2

Some more.
Radio clip on open marriages

I would change the locks and tell him he needs to pick up his DD from the drive way. He doesn't need to be in the house.

In the meantime, I would check out this thread about the specifics of Plan B: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2482787#Post2482787

Lisa, the above sentence is not in line with Plan B. You are telling him he can come in the house and CONTACT you. That is contact. The opposite of Plan B.

He should not be in the house at all. And there should be NO CONTACT.

Who is your IM?

That isn't Plan B. Plan Bers have high castle walls the wayward can't jump over.

The wayward becomes desperate to 'break' Plan B without going through the proper channels using the intermediary.

Plan Bers change the locks. Drop kids off at a third partys house. Block on Facebook. Separate finances, Change email and phone. Refuse to hear news/messages/gossip of WH that doesn't come through intermediary.
Calls the cops if they show up.

You don't hole up in your room.

You create a WH free universe where he has no way to reach you without becoming repentant.

Check out the link in my sig.

He wrote back:

Thank you. Im in severe pain at the moment in my own way. I don't expect you to be understanding at all. I do appreciate you "leaving the door open" for me because obviously i haven't been thinking straight. When i can get to a better place we can talk about what this would take. I respect what you said here and will honor it.

At the moment im very sad and very unhappy. I need to get to a better place.

If i have questions about DD can i call or text?

Thank you

Love,
WH

Guys, he volunteered to leave the house with ME taking care of HIS daughter. I have MS and cannot move right now, because I would not leave without my dogs-and cannot find a place that allows 2 dogs. I can't shut him out and make his daughter very uncomfortable, she already said it's hostile here. He comes during the day and gets out by 5:30 pm, I am fine with that. I can also be scarce when he wants to come see her outside of that.

I cannot think of anyone who would be my IM. His family members want to get as far away from this as possible.

You wouldn't use HIS family members to act in your interests anyway. You would need someone on your side.

And if you don't want to go into Plan B - you won't have any need for one.

What you are proposing is Plan C. It causes ilness, stress, provides no healing and is most likely to cause divorce.

Dr H has written about Plan C and its dangers. The BS shouldn't even work in the same building as the WS.

You need a home that's YOURS and is safe. You can invite your stepdaughter to make her choice but ultimately there's no reason on earth for you to remain at the forefront of abuse from a wayward.



Good lord he's even thanking you for remaining 'open' to abuse.

He is addicted to getting needs met from two women.

You are half his drugs stash. You are the cake he gets to eat (via your Plan C text, email and banging down the door plan) and yet he gets to keep OW too! Its a waywards paradise!

He will use you up, spit you out and move on.

Please protect yourself.

Your stepdaughter is unlikely to want him around anyway once he becomes more wayward.

What if I tell him he must inform me when he is coming here so I can leave? He has to be able to see his daughter and I can't keep him from coming here. I am getting pre-approved for a small mortgate for a condo.

I am working toward getting the Eff out of here, but it's taking some time. It's a month since my D-day. I'm learning........

I responded:

Please text me when you are going to be here, so I can leave.


You can text me, but please do not call. Like I said, I need to detach emotionally and I cannot do it if we are communicating.

Lisa, since you can't go into Plan B, I would make plans to move out of there ASAP. What you propose is not Plan B and won't be effective.

Goodness, Lisa a wayward will never honour that.

He is an ADDICT

You are half his drugs stash.

Do you really think he will respect you and leave you alone?

He will hammer down the door when he wants you.

The concept of Plan B is to starve him of all the needs you meet AGAINST HIS WILL.

And you are asking his permission to do so?

I don't think you understand PlanB.

He will want to be in the house.

He will want to be in the home

He will want to be near his wife and daughter.

He will want YOU to continue meeting his DS need.

But you must DRAW A LINE.

And say 'you can't have this and OW too'

Otherwise you are just rewarding him.

If he wants to be single, he needs to get out and stay out and see how much he likes it.

Lisa, a text message is a form of communication!



He can threaten, plead, beg, cajole, blame, fill your lovebank or lovebust it via text.

In a true Plan B you wouldn't truly know if he was dead or alive.

He would have ZERO ways to contact you and manipulate you.

I am working toward finding my own place, I promise you. I hear what you are saying and I understand it, I just cannot implement it immediately.

Because he has custody of DD, if his ex hears that he moved out and is not welcome here, she will petition to regain custody of my DSD, even though her husband (DSD step dad) has a rage disorder and was abusive enough to give DSD PTSD after 12 years of abuse.

She is a fractured, broken child who hates therapy but is forced to attend counseling. For now, until I can find a place...this has to do. He is very cruel, mean and angry right now and was taking it out on US. He is unfit to care for DSD alone full time. I was on the phone with his brother when he went off and his brother called him and gave him a spanking. Told him to move out and file for divorce since he wants to be single so bad.

Oh, and I am not even responding to this crap:

Lisa,

I understand that you need to detach emotionally so you might be able to forgive me and rebuild in the future, or because it will make it easier if you decide to leave me. i will text before i come home to give you advanced notice.

I am currently in a discovery phase trying understanding the scope to which i had been lied to and played with on my emotional needs. I am also trying to empathize the level of hurt i caused you at the same time. Im not discussing this with OW anymore, i needed to hear the lies. I have also been talking with some third party musicians who knew the score. They are telling me the truth. I need to hear all this in order to give it its burial and deal with my grief so i can give my family full attention. It hurts more because i hurt you. Music as important to me as it is still just a hobby, not a person.

I know i cheated and continued to lie to you, but i had to hear the lies for myself. I just did.

Im not sure of the outcome of us since i probably hurt you too much. But current time away is working at repairing my thinking and placing my anger in the proper direction (away from my family)

I really did need the solitude to think and reflect, and imagine what a life alone might be like, and im not sure thats what i want. I never really knew how much you cared about me, but now i hear you say it and i believe it. My unhappiness still comes from some unidentified place.

All that i know right now is that i hurt you badly, and hurt a lot of other people. When the dust settled i wasn't there for you the way i should have been, and previous to that as well. She certainly wasn't there for me in the end.

I do remember the passion that you and i had for each other years ago. We couldn't keep our hands off each other. So its gotta be in there somewhere like you say. I love our family, and the dogs, and our home. You and DD are all the family i got.

I will respect your space. Im very sorry.

Like I CARE that his POSOW lied to him. He promised her he would leave me for her. She promised him she would leave her BH for my WH. My WH followed through and revealed. She never did and had no intention of doing so. HA! That's what you get hooking up with a trashy gold-digger bar slut.

You're agreeing to a recipe for disaster. Your motives are good, but it will still wind up being more harmful for you and DSD in the long run.

How would you handle it when he refuses to leave before you're ready to come home? Which is what I would bet my bottom dollar would happen in 3 days or less. Do you stay away from your own home? Do you cave?

To make this work, you need to be the one calling the shots, not compromising with someone who wants to keep you on the abuse wagon.

Lisa, why don't you solve the DSD problem by calling the mother and having her come get the girl? If he is abusive and can't care for her, you can help her get primary custody. That would be best for the DSD.

But you know if I move out, I cannot take her with me. She is not mine, she will be stuck with her angry father who has been treating us terribly. If I stay, I cannot forbid him from entering, otherwise we could lose custody (a hard battle to win last year) and she goes right back to her capitulating mom and abusive step dad.

Right now, he is staying with his VERY elderly parents, helping them out in the process. This way, his ex wont pull the trigger on suing to reverse the custody.

Right now I love being alone. I am not committing Love Busters against WH and he is not snapping and scaring us with his anger. Really? You trusted a two-timing, gold-digging Skank who sings in a band and cheats on her husband with you? Who said she only married him so he would take care of her and her kids? Way to go, WH!

omg NOOOOOO. My DSD spent 12 years since age 4 under the care of her drunk, non-confrontational mom and abusive, loud, angry step dad. We JUST RESCUED HER FROM THIS. The kid has PTSD from it and is totally fractured and shell-shocked.

I need to stay with her. She says I am the only mom she has, and told her dad not to bring his whores around here.

Surely there are other relatives who can take her in? Because you can't stay there and stay in contact with him.

You need to find a way to remove yourself from this situation.

But you will continue to meet his needs.

Don't you understand how damaging it is to meet his needs right now?


You need to get good legal advice as to how to manage the custody situation.

Lisa, I would call a lawyer and find out just what your options are under these circumstances. If the bio mother is completely unfit, and the father is now deemed unfit by your stepdaughter, she may just have enough say in who she wants to stay with regardless of parentage. She's 16, not 6, so I'm pretty sure any thoughts she has on her best interest would be taken under serious consideration.

But if you are both powerless to keep him out, what can she do about it?

He could bring a whole troop of skanks in tomorrow and apparently, you would both have to just take it.

If he decides OW is his true love, and you're his divorce buddy, he will simply bring her around and enforce her on the two of you.

Waywards love to daydream about the OW and BW holding hands and singing kumbaya on the high holidays. Both in love with him. Their children smiling at wayward dads happiness.

Then, after your nervous breakdown, he would simply take DSD and she would be in the care of a wayward and his ho.

Her only hope is for you to bust up the A and for that he needs to experience Plan B.

I see my attorney 7/5, and I WILL be asking about a separation agreement that includes alimony support and him paying attorney fees. That last bit is new in NY state. With alimony, I could get a small condo and remove my two dogs and myself out.

I realize I am not fully ready to implement Plan B, but since he decided to 'move out' I thought it would be nice to severely limit his communications with me. He is driving me to a nervous breakdown and I'm tired of it. It's soooo quiet here. If I wasn't high on nerve pain drugs, I'd drink on the front porch, and watch the sun go down.

And since I did not respond to his weird excuse-making email, he sends this one:

Well goodnight. I hope you're feeling okay. Ill make this my last correspondence for awhile until you say its okay.

He might be hearing from my attorney before hearing from me. Honestly.

Hi LisaL77

I have a suggestion about the shotgun. Perhaps you can call the local police station and ask if it can be stored there. I'm not sure about their protocol for things like that, but if you explained the situation, they might have reason to keep it stored for you.

Or, get a gun safe and keep the key with you.

You are an enabler, my friend. That's not meant as an insult, just an observation.

The worst thing about your mindset is that you consign to yourself responsibilities and tasks THAT ARE NOT YOURS, but having absorbed them, utilize them as props for your own enabling actions.

The classic type is the mother of a shiftless, unemployed child (typically a son) who is not only not working, but not seeking employment, and spending all his hours on video games or some such nonsense. Meanwhile Mom, cooks, shops, and cleans for him because otherwise "He won't be able to take care of himself!" Which is EXACTLY why she should stop.

The DSD is NOT your responsibility. Start with THAT premise, and everything else starts to align. YOU only have to provide for YOU. You are the only one needing support and care from yourself as you escape from contact with toxic WH. Get yourself out of that house, in whatever way necessary.

Your supporting DSD is enabling BH's irresponsible actions. Whether he can man up and care for her, or she must revert to her mother (with whatever that entails) cannot be your concern, and certainly cannot be part of the algebra you employ to take care of yourself. Your "tenderness" for DSD is not really doing her any good in her long-term life. Whatever good or bad environment she is to be placed in is the doing of her Father the WH, and her Mother, who made her own choices about preferring the abuser over her own child. You cannot afford those feelings right now.

She's not going to be under your care forever. Putting off the inevitable is only damaging you.

nodding in agreement ......

Unless you can establish a custody claim to her. That would allow you to have her, and still move out. Step-parents in your type of sitch may have more parental rights than they realize.

If you're not willing to hand the responsibility of DSD over to WH, then fight for her and get your legal rights established. Keeping the status quo just isn't an option. You'll have a breakdown, possibly even be declared unfit, and then where will DSD be?

You guys are dead on. I have the most unrespectable Plan B going. I see my attorney 7/5 at 3:00. I need to know what I am entitled to regarding alimony.

I am going over in my mind who I want my IM to be and I think my former neighbor (retired pastor) is a good choice. I will contact him tonight. I need tips and training on IM process so I can provide the limits to him. Child care, household, finances and separation/divorce topics only?

My mortgate pre-qualification is still in process. I will start getting moving boxes.

Never Guessed, it breaks my heart to ditch my DSD. But I hear you and the information has penetrated.

johnstwin, I am going to put that stupid shotgun back in his closet. He is an adult and needs to be responsible for himself

He sounds like a great choice. If he is agreeable, send him this link

IM Training School

THANK YOU FOR THE LINK!

Here comes the blizzard of texts!

I miss you I dont want anything to do with her

Im sorry

I will give my full commitment to working this out

I have been a fool
and played for one

I will write the email today and let you read it

You can go to verizon account and change the password to something only you know.

I'll make a family facebook (as opposed to your "Single Hip Guy" one?? Sorry, unfair judgment there)

and I want to try couples counseling again

Im so sorry


WHATEVER.

Lisa, I haven't posted to you before. I have caught up on your PB prep.

Do you know what the laws are for 16 YO's on your state? Where I live, 16 YO's can live on their own, so I wonder if she can choose where she wants to live.

When you are more prepared for a full on PB then you will re-send the PBL, and get dark. You'll need to block all avenues for contact from your WH.

I understand that you want to protect your DSD, thing is, right now, YOU need protecting from your WH.

Don't pull the trigger on PB until you are FULLY prepared and don't send that PBL until the moment you are ready.

Lisa, in the meantime do not respond to any of his texts.
You are in plan A until you have your IM.
The atty should give you good advice regarding the house, temporary spousal support, etc.
It is extremely important that you document and let the atty know about the husbands threats to comit suicide etc. because that may enable the atty to get a restraining order against your husband from returning to the house.

If he does it again call The police

Oh and call the local welfare department and see if you qualify for any benefits such as food stamps etc.
You don't want to be worrying about basic necessities durin this time

I think you have had the critical "Aha!" moment, my friend.

That's the one where the search for the solver of your daunting problems stops being that for the great elusive "someone" and becomes the realization that it must be....you. Maybe a stronger, more resolute, and more focused "you" than has ever yet been, but "you" nonetheless.

We're here to help you avoid some of the well-known potholes and hazards, but always remember that you must be the driver.

Look what I received without me prompting him to do so:

Dear POSOW,

The relationship I had with you was thoughtless and cruel. It hurt many people, particularly Lisa and OW BH, who did not deserve to be treated that way. I am committed to my marriage and determined to make up for all the hurt I've caused my family. I am going to work hard to be the best husband that she deserves.

Because of the terrible offense to Lisa, and the damage I have done to our marriage, I am permanently ending all contact with you. Please respect my wish to regain my integrity, and to heal my family. Please also respect my wish that you not attempt to contact me in any way at any time.

Lisa has all the details of our relationship now and she will also be told of any attempts at contact in order to regain her trust.

(I will let you be the judge regarding sharing this email with OW BH. I think it would be the right thing for you to do since my apology also goes out to him.)

-WH

H eemailed her, my work and my personal acct

Now the question you need to answer:
Do you want to work towards recovering your marriage?
Or divorce him?
The choice is yours

I don't get it...

The entire purpose of plan A and plan B is getting the wayward spouse to

1) End all contact with the affair partner for life, and

2) Agree to commit to the marriage and a plan for recovery.

Seems to me that her WH is ready to do just that and has now even mailed an APPROPRIATE no contact letter. And she is still advised to go ahead with plan B???

I don't get the advice.

This is a good first step and is a demonstrable action that he is serious about committing.

That was a pretty good MB letter. Does he read here?

We got all the books, man! Lok

Schtoop, he left yesterday & I commanded him to stop communicating with me, unlezs it was about DSD. I said I was emotionally detaching for my own safety. Got him thinkin......and he read HNHN, too. He knew what the letter was supposed to say.

Lisa this is a good MB letter, but it should have been handwritten and given to you, for you to send.

He would need to change his contact details first also, so OW is met with radio silence.

I am fairly unconvinced as to its sincerity, too.

It would be easy for the APs to cook this up between them, and simply take the A underground. NC letters have been used to do that in the past.

But it could be genuine. Will he agree to the other MB conditions?

I would set your bar high here Lisa and see if he meets it.

Have you made a decision?

I love him deeply and I strongly desire to recover my marriage. He is exhibiting signs of depression & anger still. We will be following the plan. When I am ready to ask questions, he said he will be fully honest. I have to make a list.

I encourage you to use the marraige builders coaching service so you have an experienced professional steering your marriage recovery

me too.

So, my husband and I have been spending UA together since we agreed to reconcile Tuesday. He was exhibiting angry outbursts that were scaring me, but I read the books, so I knew what to expect.

The last few nights he revealed that he is in withdrawal and is having trouble with his lingering feelings for the OW and his broken heart. The fog may be lifting because he is increasingly aware of how much he hurt me and our family. This is hard for me to hear, but I was grateful for his honesty. He was crying and said his anger is covering up his sadness and depression. His angry episodes are very few after that.

He said he has no one to talk about this with. His family won't really speak to him. I told him what my counselor said: Get into IC to gain some clarity and then we can move forward with MC.

I also told him to post here. I told him about my ongoing thread and said to stay outta my thread. I told him to begin his own thread, and people who have 'been there' as a WS can guide him and validate everything he is going through so he doesn't feel so alone.

I have been trying to exhibit more affection and admiration and meet his SF needs-and he says it's not genuine sounding. This hurt my feelings as I am trying my very best. The books even said it might feel weird to try to meet EN at first until it becomes more natural and easy. Part of me thinks he is saying this to make himself feel better.

I think the scale is still tipped where I am trying harder at this than he is, as the book FILSIL mentioned. The person who begins efforts at recovery is the person whose needs go unmet the most. I need to remember this. We both spent years waiting for the other person to initiate, and then we drifted further and further apart.

Lisa, I think that is great news!! One thing I would caution you against would be distractions such as counseling. Your marriage needs help NOW and can't be put off for wild goose chases. You need to move forward NOW in recovering your marriage.

The steps for recovery are outlined in the book Surviving an Affair. There are lessons in the book and you can get the workbook, Five Steps to Romantic Love, that has all the worksheets and exercises in it.

Counseling will be a distraction at a time when your marriage is on life support. You can't afford that!

Here is what it will take to recover your marriage:

Dr Harley in Requirements for Recovery:

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the wayward spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts here
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

<snip unrelated>

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Women are only supposed to Plan A for three weeks (try hard to win the wayward round) where infidelity is concerned. He should be fully on board within that time. That's all it should take. Any longer and he's just playing with you.

If you try and be a hero and drag your marriage up the mountain alone you'll make things much worse.

He needs to be held accountable.

Counselling for a wayward is.a terrible idea! He feels bad because he does awful things and hurts his wife. He will feel better when and if he chooses to be a better man.

Which MB conditions has he agreed to? What has he done to earn a shot at recovery?

Are you Plan Aing him still until he agrees to the conditions?

OH, ML! I forgot to mention....I read that book and then I read "Fall In Love, Stay In Love". I am RE-READING SAA starting tonight and I have the LB Book and 5 steps workbook.

We BOTH filled out our EN questionaire and will share those later.

I will be working on POJA for the online coaching here. My WH NEEDS some IC and he said he wanted to revisit MC, so I didn't want to discourage that.......did I tell you my MC became my IC and she TOLD ME ABOUT THIS SITE? LOL, she guided me here. So, she agrees with the philosophy of it.

Sorry, I meant to say the scale is tipped because I am further along in my desire for recovery, not that I am trying harder. He is still in withdrawal from the A.

He is severely depressed for years now. It runs in his family and really affected our marriage all these years.

He said he would adhere to all conditions. I have the passwords to his email account, the verizon phone usage, and still need to get FB password. He agreed to a GPS installed on his car. He also understands the importance of EP's. I told him his making friends with women was unacceptable from now on. He cleaned up his FB friends and agreed I was right.

Lisa, what does he need IC for? You do understand that your marriage needs to be fixed NOW, right?

I cannot tell you the times that waywards have used "counseling" as an excuse to avoid making necessary changes in their marriage. They claim they have to "fix themselves" before they can work on the marriage. It is an avoidance tactic that will ruin your chances of recovery.

IC can be very destructive in that it focuses on the individual at the expense of the marriage. Your marriage is on life support and can't afford that.

ML, my marriage needed to be fixed back in 2002, so I'm with you. His depression is OVERWHELMING, I did not think you could get that low.

Remember, it was my husband with the shotgun in his mouth after I revealed to him that I spoke with the POSOW BH and she had never, ever told her BH about 'being in love with my WH and is gonna leave her BH for my WH'. So, my BH was going to throw me in the garbage and leave me for her, but she had noooooo intention of doing the same for my WH even though she lied and said she would.

He needs to discuss his suicide talk with a professional, not just with me. It's too much for me.

Oh, I was pushing him to to go IC, not the other way 'round.

In order to treat depression, he should go to a doctor and get on anti-depressants. He is depressed because he lost the source of his addiction. Depression is very common after affairs. His depression will lessen if he gets on antidepressants and focuses on making his marriage a happy place.

As he withdraws from the OW, his depression will dissipate.

Why does he have a FB account at all?

My FWH was also depressed for many years, often on meds for it. Funny thing is....it cleared up when he started living in a way that made him actually feel great about himself: living honestly, being a good husband, thinking of others instead of just himeself.

He has been off meds now for since our D-Day and has no sign at all of depression anymore.

Not saying this is the case for everyone, since there are those who have actual chemical imbalances and need a permanent medical solution.

We went through MC; it was a total waste of both time and money. The awful thing about MC is that we actually thought it was a help at the time; however, we wasted a lot of time figuring why we were arguing and dissecting the arguments, which was very painful.

Not once were transparency, extraordinary precautions, or any of the love busters discussed. Not one counselor EVER ONCE discussed these! I was made to feel the one at fault when I didn't want my H having one-on-one anythings with females.

Nothing at all EVER about meeting one another's emotional needs in such a way as to build romantic love.

If you are very fortunate, your MC will be a MB advocate. If not, you would be better off doing the phone coaching, or, if you are both on board with MB, then the Online Seminar is well worth the thousand dollars.

He has been depressed for years, and his negativity was one reason I withdrew from meeting his EN or allowed him to meet mine.

He has FB because he is a musician and he is connected to other musicians through FB. I have it now, too.

I will emphasize the importance of staying on his AD and seeing his doctor for a refill on the prescription.

I think our best option is the coaching telephone sessions with SH. More personalized. I don't want to wing it.

He needs to tell a professional that he fell head over heels for a skanks lies?

Why?

That's not depression - that's waywardness.

If the suicide threat was made to you following the guilt of his A and his anger at exposure ...

Common sense leads you to ask what does any of that have to do with depression?

The suicide threat was made because of wayward guilt and anger, not depression.

Just don't understand why the two are being mixed up. Waywards talk (sometimes genuinely but sometimes to manipulate) about suicide all the time.

Its not because of genetic disposition, its because they've screwed up and made a mess.

Doesn't it make more sense to clear up the mess than talk about it?

Why would he talk to you or anyone else about the skanks lies at all?

"its because they've screwed up and made a mess"

This is the ticket. As soon as he was aware that she was lying to him about leaving her posh lifestyle for my WH, he became more aware that he decimated our relationship for a fantasy.

He can talk to me about his feelings-it fosters transparency. I do not want to discourage that. At times when he is down and very quiet, I tend to think I did something to prompt that. It's not the case, he is in wd and I need to remember that.

You only need one FB account for the two of you. Your profile picture needs to be the two of you, in a loving embrace.

You may need to see a new psychiatrist who can adjust his meds. It sounds like he isn't taking the right ones, or his meds may need to be adjusted.

Meds? Yeah! Facebook? Yup! All environmental factors surrounding the key issue.

Does he yet understand/accept that his "thing" with OW was toxic and is over?

Once that is part of his reality, the rest is just details. The best indicators that he aligns with you (and us) on the above are an NC Letter, self-exposure to family/friends, rigorous EPs, and openness in everything he does - where he is, who he talks to, etc.

What is your PROOF of these factors? (Please avoid giving us pap that starts with "I feel....", or "He says....")

Lisa, you should check out MElo12's thread. His wifes affair is BACK ON now because his WW's "counselor" told her she should contact the OM to get "closure."


Melo just found out the divorce between the OM and the OMW is now back on since his WW contacted him for "closure." As the suggestion of the IC. That is the kind of advice that is typical of counselors.

Okay, I am on board and no longer pushing for IC or MC. I will keep my IC because she supports my MB efforts and even recommended me to come here.

God bless Melo, my gosh. That is horrifying.

Today, he himself suggested we use his facebook. He stated we will be taking a pic together hugging. Wonder if he's looking at my thread?

He said he is committed to this and we shall look at MB together to jointly choose a training option. My favorite one is the coaching for accountability.

We are already spending ALL our free time together-never apart. He has not been in contact with the OW and ceased contact with mutual friends so as not to hear any gossip. I emphasized the transparency rule. He did make a phone call to retrieve an expensive musical equipment item thru a common friend and I told him he should have communicated this to me right away.

He agreed and apologized. I told him he has been close-mouthed and I need more radical honesty. He asked me if I would change my name to his and I agreed. Should have done it right away after the wedding.

EP's put in place are joined at the hip for all activities, no friendships with opposite sex, no recreational activity w/o each other, accounting for time and place at all times.

We installed GPS tracker on each of our phones and we are buying a GPS for his car.

I need to get a cell phone reverse lookup to review who he's talking to every day. I'm willing to pay, just don't know a good one. I posted on investigative forum a request for some names of services that are accurate.

Now is the perfect time to use MB Coaching

Yeah, since today I asked him who 'two' women were on his facebook and he freaked out and said I interrupted his workday. I told him I bet during his affair he and the POSOW texted back and forth all day. He agreed!

Then he went on and on to say that I was attacking him and using a tone of voice to push his buttons. Guilty much? I'm telling you...I will have my own condo before Labor Day.

He played the victim the whole time. "This whole process is becoming an inquisition. You are using an accusatory tone." Via text? Here is my text: WH: an example of fb friends I was questioning you on the other day would be name #1 and name #2 the bartender? Who r they? Yeah, that tone is so biting. I told him I saw a woman in a bikini on his fb and he disagreed. So I found name #1, a woman in a black bikini. Ummmmmm, what's so hard about that?

Is he holding to his EPs you gave him?

He is now. He took down the old fb of his where the POSOW was 'liking' all his photos and comments. With that, the baby went out with the bathwater, including all the random women he didnt even know, but friended anyway ??????

He created a new fb, no friending people that you don't really know. I def took issue with that. His excuse was that his 16 yo daughter has over 2,000 friends and doesnt even know all of them. I reminded him that she's a kid and not a married man.

If it's going to be a battle the whole way regarding transparency and EP's, honesty, and just compensation, than perhaps this aint for me.

It is his job to make you feel protected in your marriage as you him.

If he has to have a facebook (which I don't know why even if he's a musician) why not have a joint facebook together? Both names on it, shared completely?

Exactly!

He at first said we would have a joint FB. Now, he needs his own to set up gigs. Really?

So what is your plan?

Are you able to afford the MB coaching center? Online program?

Lisa, I logged in for quick reply to you. (I am an admitted MB creeper :)).

It's obvious that you are a firecracker, which is awesome. Brainhurts and others are coaching you so fabulously, but want to add one thing...take time to be still. The MB plan is a very narrow plan, and it requires a calm head. The plan here is to RESTORE marriages, got that? We want you to restore you marriage, if at all possible. If not, the plan will help you get to and thrive on the other side. I want the best for you, my dear.

Take time to think and plan. (NOT stall) We will be here.

Here are some excellent reads.

BSs...............just be still
Be the lighthouse...for those feeling tossed to the waves

I am so sick of his bs I cant stand it. I really am sick of the broken promises. I will be speaking to my mom about helping me get into a condo.

You're beginning to slip into an error that eventually comes back to bite most BS newbies.

When you get him to agree to an EP from this date forward, put each EP IN WRITING with ATTACHED SANCTIONS for breaking it.

EP: WS will set up a joint FB account with LL77, by 01 August 2012, and no solo FB account ever again.

Sanction for violation: WS will move out of the marital bedroom, sleeping in the basement until LL77 feels safe for his return.

Until every EP is structured that way, his fulltime goal will be to get around every one. You're lucky; you haven't lost much time before "genius boy" showed you his true recovery "colors". (Hint: Black, like NG's mood!)

Exactly!!

What EP's did you give him?

What were your conditions if he broke an EP? Plan B is the next step.

The MB sanction is Plan B.

I wouldn't try to set levels of consequences. He breaks any EP or boundary, and it's immediately NC with you.

Well here I sit in our old neighborhood. Very peaceful. He followed me. I let it out. His cruelty since D day. His rude remarks about my weight only to find the POSOW is fatter than me and actually not very attractive. Thats mean. He begged me back but we had a blowout because of his broken promise about joint fb.

My response would have been "that's because I am accusing you, sweetheart"

That statement was geared toward gaslighting you into being meek.



I agree. No messing about.



Dont get angry! There's no need. Draw your line, stating it calmly. No wiggle room no gaslighting, no anger.

Why are you planning to move out? Can't you just kick him out?

The MB sanction is Plan B.

Neak, (and others) that is absolutely the right and only answer for major violations , like calling the AP, etc. (And maybe setting up a subsequent private F/B account would be such a major violation, I don't know.)

But we're talking about helping BSs effect change in a WS's entire lifestyle of secrecy and stealth. There will be omissions of EPs that are less than disastrous, because of the mechanics of learned human behavior.

EP: WS will come home from work immediately, unless intermediate stops were previously cleared with BS.

Instance: Driving home, WS remembers he needs a doohickey to repair BW's automatic foot-massager. He stops at the hardware store, makes the purchase and continues home. BW sees him installing the part, knows there to have been an EP violation, and initiates Plan B.

Sorry, bad implementation.

It would be beyond belief that every (any?) WS could be handed a list of twenty EPs and from Day 1 batted 1.000 on them. And for those FBSs who want to scream "My FWS did!", I'll gently suggest the fact was you never learned of the initial slips, or slyly chose to, and have now forgotten that you did, ignore the minor ones. (Don't worry, we won't hold that against you.)

The problem is the "finality" of Plan B is enough of a deterrent to prevent the BS from taking ANY action on early EP screw-ups, and without gradations, no iterative progress will be made. (Study educational theory, esp "buttressed learning" for more info.) "All or nothing" at start-up is as unfair a burden on the BS as it would be an impossibility on the WS.

How is Facebook involved? Does he have a private acct?
Do you have the password?
If Facebook is a problem get rid of it.

I hate Facebook. There are probably 10 million affairs on Facebook this morning
There is a reason he would not want to get rid of it or have a joint acct.

But it is impossible for a BS to effect change in a WS's lifestyle. That is a job for the WS to do. You are advocating a stance of the BS trying to do the WS's work for them, a serious mistake lots of BS's make, something we need to advise them away from. In the case of addiction this is usually called codependency.

Lisa,

Please read this.
How The Co-Dependency Movement is Ruining Marriages

If you think Dr. Harley's plans have a problem and need to be modified, then I think you need to email Dr. Harley, or at least start a new thread here to talk about it separately, rather than hijacking the threads of other people and posting advice that conflicts with Dr. Harley's plans.

Posters don't come here for NeverGuessed's opinion or markos's opinion, after all. They come here to find advice using the principles of the author of His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair: Dr. Harley.

Plan B isn't final at all.

It is only final if the WS refuses to accept responsibility or behave in a way which is serious.

The BS can't effect positive change, they can only say 'get out' to a WS who won't.

One of the biggest obstacles we have with persuading BSs it's time for Plan B is that they believe it is a final dead end to the marriage when it isn't!

The WS, (if serious) need only communicate their repentant actions through the IM and Plan B goes away.

If I was a WS and placed in Plan B, I'd contact the IM and say 'What do I need to do?' Then I'd do it.

BS to effect change in a WS's lifestyle.

Horrors! You're right! My choice of word was imprecise! You should be PROUD of that discovery!

The word "effect" should have been "incent" or "guide".

Plan A and Plan B are NOTHING if not tactics to incent the WS to effect the change in their own behavior.

Here are the rest of my posts since this one on this thread, in case you missed any while tracking my participation, my friend:

Re: exposing lunch dates In Recovery 07/11/12 10:20 AM
Re: Wife's Affair - Question/support for newbie Surviving an Affair 07/11/12 10:06 AM
Re: Loveheraaf thread: buddy with a wayward wife Surviving an Affair 07/11/12 07:56 AM

That is Plan A. Plan A is time limited for a reason. If the WS still needs his mouth wiping by mommy after Plan A time is up, then they need to get out, and grow up in the big bad world all by themselves.

If I was a WS and placed in Plan B, I'd contact the IM and say 'What do I need to do?' Then I'd do it.

You were never a WS with the psychology and experience that that entails. The HUGE majority of WSs will not. I seem to remember a 10% number re-emerging from Plan B, attributed to Dr. H.. Okay, haven't done the math, but...

Recently, can we point to many? Any? (And I mean true Plan B with IM, NC, etc.)

Can you show me this 10% figure? I have never heard that in all the years I have been here. And I agree with indie, the time to get n board is in plan a. If the WS doesn't do that, then plan b is warranted.

The big problem with having consequences such as moving the WS out of the marital bedroom, is that it is a punishment rather than a natural consequence. You can't punish a wayward into becoming a whole new person who values fidelity and willingly embraces EP's.

One minor violation wouldn't necessarily mean Plan B. It would most definitely mean the BS would confront the WS firmly, making clear that what the WS just did was not part of a M that the BS is willing to be a part of, and that it must change immediately.

A WS who is serious will be teachable. They will be eager to do more for their BS, and will be thankful that the BS cared enough to confront them in this way. A WS with an attitude like that can be worked with, and doesn't need Plan B implemented as part of their learning process unless there's a major breach.

A WS who is chafing at the "restrictions", likening their BS to a parole officer, and trying to see how close they can come to their limits without falling over the edge, isn't serious and will almost certainly need Plan B before they are. When the BS uses loving confrontation as in the above scenario, they may at first give in, but their core attitude of resentment and entitlement soon comes through. As soon as it's clear that that's the overall trend, and not just a bad day or two, it's time to go to Plan B, even if there hasn't been an egregious breach yet.

Where resentment and entitlement march, that egregious breach is soon to follow.

If many WSs are not responding to Plan B - then that is many BSs saved from a FR with someone who is not serious.

Dr H is very clear that it should be only a three week or six month Plan A depending on gender then Plan B them unless they are serious about committing to recovery.

He is forthright that to Plan B is risky. Separation is risky because it may become permanent.

But it is riskier not to.

[/quote]

Agree, Neak. There is a huge difference between someone who is trying and someone who is not. It's not difficult to tell the difference.

No, that is not what Dr. Harley says Plan B is.

The only reason I had trouble telling the difference at first, was because all I had seen to contrast with the abject cruelty of the A was the tepid, half-baked semi-efforts of a resentful WS.

Once AJ got serious, NOTHING would stop him from doing everything i asked for. Once I saw that difference, it all became crystal clear. I went from being a resented "probation officer" (his exact words), to a deeply cherished wife.

There's another problem with the concept of punishment, as well.

Dr. Harley covers punishment in chapter 5 of Love Busters.

Once AJ got serious, NOTHING would stop him from doing everything I asked for...I went from being a resented "probation officer", to a deeply cherished wife.

Neak, I think you are a great example for the concept I'm trying (evidently badly) to get across.

Now, what got AJ serious? I think what you said was that he failed at some minor EP issues. You chosen method of sanctioning him was to indicate your displeasure and decreasing patience with his performance. Would that be fair? Did it work? (Hah! We know the answer to that question. Congrats!)

You did NOT, I take it, jump to Plan B as AJ stumbled around orienting himself to his new reality, right? You moderated your reaction to the severity of his transgression, yes? What I am urging is that RH be applied a priori to any transgressions.

Markos, you said:

No, that (incenting the WS to effect the necessary changes) is not what Dr. Harley says Plan B is.

Well given that every plan must have a goal (or goals), I would say that the primary goal of Plan B is to present the non-conforming WS with a "scorched earth" view of what life is very likely to be between them if events take the likely course. The only option for WS would be to request through the IM what behaviors would have to be changed, and how, and demonstrate those changes. The alternative is that the WS might not be adequately dissuaded by the prospect to reform, and the marriage goes to dissolution. The secondary Plan B goal is to prevent additional damage to the BS, but Plan D immediately could do that.

If you believe that these are not the goals of Plan B, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

What I would like is for you to learn what Dr. Harley says is the primary goal of Plan B, rather than turning other people's threads into a sounding board for your thoughts and my thoughts. We don't have to reinvent the wheel, here.

I had everything lined up to go to Plan B a second time. I had the letter ready, and every bit of determination to make it succeed. The main reason I opted to hold off very temporarily on pulling the trigger was that he cried and begged for 4 hours solid, for me to give him one more chance to get it right, and had already started to take action to be accountable from the first moment he drove in the gate.

I gave him no encouragement whatsoever. Finally, with a face set like a stone, I agreed that I would not make him leave *quite* yet. But he had to show me, continuing immediately with his actions, that he was fully committed. And he did.

Whether I had to go through with implementing Plan B again or not is not the issue. The point is that I was ready, I was serious, and he knew it. By handing me the secret A-phone before he ever said a word, he showed me that he was beginning to be serious, too.

It's not that he was perfect after that. For example, he still feared the OW, and had the urge to appease her by not being willing that she should be fired from his company. (Fortunately, in a way, the company was already on the brink of disaster from his sloppy management in previous months, so there was no risk of any harassment charges sticking.) But upon being confronted about anything, AJ made an immediate effort to change. I never again had to even come close to Plan B, though I was always ready, just in case.

Because AJ realized at that point that I would have him leave and go dark on him in a heartbeat, he found the motivation within himself to become a changed individual. Most WS's that I've seen on here were not as responsive, and had to suffer a while before the motivation to avoid pain outgrew their motivation to cling to the remnants of the A.

Whether Plan B is actually implemented, or the WS escapes it by the skin of their teeth, the BS who is serious about ridding their lives of adultery has the best chance of having their WS join them in a true R.

If you are not in Congress, you should be, with that so succinctly politically polite response

He had failed at minor EP issues, yes. But then when my confrontations accomplished nothing except him feeling sorry for himself, it took less than two weeks before he was back in C with an A-phone to boot.

If I had been giving myself advice at that critical juncture, I would have told myself to go into Plan B as soon as it became obvious that he was whiny and resentful over what I had listed as the conditions for R. There was no need to let things go on long enough for C to resume, since he so clearly wasn't serious about R at that point.

A number of the good peeps here were already advising me to go into Plan B before I did, but at first I was so shell-shocked that even though my posts sounded normal, and like I was hearing them and responding to them, in reality I was incapable of coherent action.

Fortunately, I snapped out of my daze eventually, and donned the infamous Red Cape of Power. I've never been quite the same since.

The end result would have been the same, and I would have saved myself much needless grief and trauma, had I been willing to pull the plug when R had clearly stalled, rather than waiting around for the second time C resumed.

AJ got serious when I got serious.

I see a lot of speculation and unnecessary debate about the purpose and intent of very basic plans. I would ask that posters familiarize themselves with the concepts before posting to newcomers. This type of debate is unnecessary and confusing. Thank you for your cooperation.

Thanks for the 'Be Still' link. I REALLY needed that today.

We were texting each other while I was hiding out in our old neighborhood. Forgot about the GPS app we downloaded on our phones and he found me.

I wanted him to leave, this was my secret calm spot.

He professed he made a mistake, the FB argument was stupid. I said I want a joint facebook, full disclosure w/o hesitation, all free time together as UA to facilitate attachment, no unfair judgements, selfish demands or angry outbursts for either of us (I'm at fault, too) and no swearing at me anymore. He agreed to follow the program. Said he's been a fool.

He reminded me that he is about 2 weeks behind me in this process, as I wanted to recover our M right from the start. Today was the first time he admitted his A was just like the book said, Fog, Fantasy, not real love.

I just got paid today. I will contact MB tomorrow from work. We both never slept last night so we are turning in early.

I don't mind other topics/conversations on my thread. It's like a dinner party and I'm the host. There are several conversations going on at once and I think it's nice.

Indie girl, I can't kick him out. He has custody of his daughter and it is more reasonable that I leave. Don't worry, if the time comes I will turn on my heel and go. I am VERY GOOD about not looking back after I make a solid decision. I am resolute, if nothing else.

Sounds great. MB counselling is a fab idea.

A more remorseful attitude is nice, but nothing beats verifiable actions

What about transparency with passwords etc, proving honesty such as polygraph, accounting for his time ....

I have passwords to everything that *I know about*. The polygraph....I did not go there yet. We both account for time using GSP app on our phones. We are only at work without each other. All other time is together.

Just keep watching his attitude and actions. Chances are good you'll be able to tell quickly if he's still or back in contact. What you've described sounds promising, as long as he follows through.

We made lots of plans for this weekend. We are seriously lacking in RC.

Tonight we are having dinner at a restaurant on Lake Ontario and watching his buddy's band play after.

Tomorrow we are kayaking on same lake, later in evening watching another buddy's band play. Seen them, they are GOOD.

Sunday....he suggested attending a friends church. I jumped on that. We are going.

We have to make time for the EN Questionanire.

We each completed our EN questionnaire and he was less critical than I was. I was surprised. Evidently, I have exhibited behaviors that are now meeting his EN.

Aside from some obvious trust issues and insecurity on my part, we are doing a lot better. We spend ALL our free time together. We plan activities and go out together. We have great sex. Now we need to agree on which tool on MB we will use. I am shooting for the coaching, even though it's expensive.

His most important EN are: admiration, affection, SF, conversation and an attractive spouse.

He wants me to be more aggressive and initiate more for SF-I got a low grade on that. He said he gets enough, but wants me to be more pushy. I'm working on it.

I am also working on admiration. I need to compliment him more and express my appreciation of him in my life.

Lastly, I am working on my physical appearance. I have lost 30 pounds and have to lose 25 more to get into my healthy weight range. I ballooned up before being diagnosed with MS. I was once a runner, believe it or not and could eat whatever I wanted. I am going to try to run tomorrow. I am getting my hair done and letting it grow longer. I wear makeup every day and will be shopping WITH my FWH to get his review and approval on some cute dresses.

We have not discussed the EN questionnaire results yet. I also placed importance on affection and he needs to improve here. I always say I love you and initiate loving gestures first. He is aware that I feel this way. Also, honesty and openness. His lack of these got us here in the first place, I need him to improve on this so we can understand each other and move forward in recovery. Family Commitment-we need to do more as a family. The family bond has deteriorated while he was deep in his A.

My stepdaughter FINALLY admitted that our marital problems are bothering her. We reconciled and then swore divorce 4 separate times since 6/1. I'd like to mention that *I* have been the rock here. I wanted recovery every day since D-Day. It was him that called it off while in the fog. He took her out to dinner and explained the MB process to her, she was asking about the books and stuff.

So far, so good. We need to get moving on selecting the MB recovery plan mutually agreed upon. Maybe we wont be crazy busy and can focus on that.

I assume you and your husband had STD testing?

THE FIRST WEEK, MY FRIEND!!!!

He even got a confirmation in the mail that he was clear of all STD's.

My dr. office called me with the good news. No paper.

I have to say that things are a ocean-full better since my D-day. I feel more confident and comfortable navigating this. Thank God for this site and you people.

Lisa, this is great to hear! Has he stuck to all his EP's? It's a whole new way of life, not just doing a few things for the BS to help them feel better.

Good job meeting his EN's, too. EN's can be SO MUCH FUN!!!!!

Folks, can someone provide the link to the thread that gives coping mechanisms to stop mental movies???


I am struggling.

He is actually doing better than I am with this. I am Love Busting all over the place and I will be focusing my IC on developing a way to stop doing this.

He has been a dream with this process lately.

This is the hardest thing I ever had to do. Harder than dealing with my multiple sclerosis.

Managing Memories and Dealing with Triggers

Thank you so very much. We are signing up for the online tools and coaching next paycheck.

Good.

How much UA time are you getting?

Every moment not working or sleeping. Every.Single.Minute.