so my wife of 1 year started as a LPN 7 months ago. since i work days i come home and have our Daughter of 4years till i go to bed at 1115 when she gets home. my normal time was about 10pm. she goes in before i come home at about the 3 month period I mentioned how this wasnt working for me. and I didnt want to be selfish but could she please get a day job. no change she said she applied for some but i havent seen anything. for awhile we would still go out to dinner but she would text the whole time and say it was so and so from work. bassically we are not really able to make love deposit anymore as we spend no time . Then it got to the point she is working to avoid conflict about a month ago. one day my daughter mentioned Mommy and Craig had to get her batteries for her computer. I imidiatly text her and told her what our daughter said I she said jenna must be mistaken she meant Greg and susan that she told me about a play date. well we went to the Dominican republic for annivarsary for a week upon our return she slapped my hand on the escaletor and knocked my passport and ticket out of my hand falling onto the moving equipment came as a shock and panic for my ride home i got angy she said drop it i was ticked for about a minute. after that we have spiraled into a never ending disagreement. this has gone on all month. i appoligize she wont accecpt says my action speak louder than words and i have been getting jelous as we had a blow out one night and she said she called her friend Jenn to pick her up but that Jenn sent her husband Craig. Craig showed upto our house that nite and i asked who he was. i said you brought your botfriend here the one jenna mentioned that you said was greg? since then I have contacted her family which gets back to her for talking to her cousin and thats me digging and making her upset. her cousin said something about a call log next thing you know im checking her call log and she has been texting craig for months. like alot more than i wouldve even figured. now ive slipped into Jelousy and at this point i havent been able to control looking into matters pissing her off meanwhile she has gone out to drink with co workers but got drunk and stayed out till 600am. we took a small step and went to dinner all went well but that night she also went to a gay bar with her nurse friends and a gay nurse who bar tedns so thats the story that nite she told me all about what was happening and seemed fairly normal. next day wanted nothing to do with me on that day off. she went out told me not to bother her. and next day my daugter told me she was with craig momoy her and his son hunter and that Jenn and the girl were not there again told my wife she said i putting words into my daughters mouth when i simply asked what did you do with mommy yesterday. got even worse for us now were practically separating she wont give up her job or this guy craig shes adimate is just a friendship. he has a restraining order that his wife got has been separated for a year and was fired from the police force in the town he lived in over the incident. i contacted the wife via facebook and her father called me and told me that i told amanda he said he hates craig that he has anger issues and the he would help if he could. she said it dosent add up and called me crazy for looking into it. what to do know this marrige is over and i can not accecpt Craig as her friend only. she texts him all nite at this point

First off...Calm down. You are not crazy or inappropriately jealous. Your wife is having an affair. You know it, we know it and she certainly knows it.

Take a moment to read up on as much information here as you can. Don't talk to your wife about this information as she is beyond logic and reason right now.

First step...obtaining indisputable evidence of the affair.

There is a whole operation investigate sub-forum on how to snoop on your wife. I know that doing this feels kind of icky but this is your life and you deserve the truth about your life and family and second, your wife is lost right now and although you already likely have the right to divorce her for adultery, she needs your help and you can't help her while she's lying to you and not able to even discuss the truth.

I found that using a voice activated digital recorder hidden in my wife's car and another one in the house where she had most of her clandestine telephone calls as the quickest and easiest way to document that OM was more than "just a friend". You don't have to have this "proof" to know what's going on but sometime further exposure to others requires insurmountable proof such that they can no longer use the "we're just friends" lie.

Another good tool is the GPS device on the car (or software on her phone). Using that you likely could prove she never went to any gay bar but instead was parked at a motel or OM's apartment all night. The gay bar wayward ruse is such a tired excuse....they always think they can gaslight you saying "You are so controlling and jealous even thinking I'm having an affair with men at the Gay bar". It's so transparent.

Second step - I'm a little confused by your story and maybe OM is separated and you've already spoke to his wife, Jen but if not, I don't even think you should wait for the recording device to do this....call your wife's friend, Jenn and let her know "craig" is having an affair with your wife so she can start busting things up on her side of the street.


Third step - without forewarning your wife (really stop talking to her about this ... she is NOT going to tell you the truth so by asking her about her affair you are just bugging her and making her be more careful) and without threatening her or OM whatsoever. ..... EXPOSE their documented affair at the hospital. Affairs are rampant in hospitals. Some hospitals care and others don't but if he is a doctor or her superior in any way they really worry about lawsuits. They may fire someone if fraternizing is against their employee conduct rules or just separate them at work. If they are close co-workers having them together is bad protocol.

Fourth step - Copy all your wife's and OM's facebook friend's name right now before they deactivate their accounts. Eventually you'll be exposing the affair to everyone you can through facebook NOT to be vindictive but rather to get help busting up the affair in the hopes that once it's over you'll get an opportunity to truly save your marriage.


Your kids are depending on you to fight for their family. I know angering your wife by exposing her adulterous behavior to the world seems counter-intuitive; however, it works. Your marriage can survive her anger. Your short marriage is unlikely to survive her continuing and deepening affair nor if she continues to work with the OM (even if they end it). The more aggressive you are fighting quickly to break them up the better your chances. If WW won't end it...you want OM to give up. OM may be divorcing anyway and he'll have a world of single women without kids and angry husband's to pursue. If you make your WW too much of a hassle for him....he'll walk away and dump her.


Last thing. Keep those recorders handy. Many WW's fight dirty for custody and when you refuse to just move out, roll over and take being an every other weekend day, they start making false accusations against you. They might punch themselves in the face and call the cops on you. File restraining orders, etc. Use a recording device in such situations to protect yourself and record the interactions with her when she's going nuts. You also need to consider that divorce is a distinct possibility in this circumstance and begin to document matters such that you can undertake the best fight for as much or all the custody of your child that you can. Do not move out voluntarily. Do not agree to let WW move out and take the child. Until a divorce is filed you each have 100% custody of the child all the time.

Be careful...Be smart...Be calm. YOU will make it. It'll be OK for you however this goes. Your wife is lost and hurting right now. We may be able to help you save her but not always. Sometimes they don't come back. We can help you either way.

Godspeed,

Mr. W

The OM is separated I was told by his WW father. I have a pre nup on the house she is ready to move out now but were going to seek counseling tuesday. she is going to get her own phone line possibly becasue i messed up talking to a friend last nite and wrong text the info to my wife which has caused bigger issues.
I also sort of shot off my guns already and she stated many times she has not cheated and is not that way that this is a friedship. but then if i accuse her of an emotional affair she says it is what it is, which isnt denial either way its a poisonus relashionship that will affect this marriage

Sir,

Do not go to the counseling.
Cancel it. It will do more harm than good.

seriously? she is willing to talk there though. she wont communicate well with me she trows this that and the other thing in my face and has been very dismmive i know shes in there somewhere but sisnce she works night im afraid alls ive been doing is making love bank wothdrawls via text and not having time with her to put em back. she has told she will not get/quit her job or get rid of friends ect. last nite. but she will commit to counseling

Yes, I am very serious.

The counseling will destroy your marriage.
They are not trained for counseling marriages with active affairs.
You cannot build your marriage until the affair is permanently ended. This is what you need to focus on.

Read the post from Mr. Wondering on your thread and he tells you what you need to focus on

Your entire focus needs to be on getting evidence of their affair and exposing it far and wide.

The counsellor will take a little bit of bad and add a whole lot worse.

They are particularly toxic in affair situations where the fault is not with the relationship: but the AFFAIR!!!

Expose it, end it, job done.

Stop letting the wayward trick a counsellor into telling you it's your fault.

Very lucrative for counsellors to take on a waywards bottomless pit of complaints. Not so great for you or the marriage.

i done the phone log i know something is up i know who he is there is an unproven rumor he is a cop. he was fired from a PD once and has a restraint order and pending divorce my wife also says its just a friendship however its still affecting our marriage. i know about where the om may live but nothing definate.

mabye i'll try the voice recorder but i will still goto the intake appt as we were going to try that route.
Ive alredy alerted her that i dont approve the call log the phone call from the father of the OM separated wife ect she is going to be more secure in what she does now anyways

Sir,

You will make a grave error in attending marriage counseling and not listening to the advice here

what if i dont mention the affair at all in the counseling session?

i cant cancel right now she is expecting it.

Sir, the affair IS THE PROBLEM!
It will be the elephant sitting in the room, as your wife complains that:
* You don't listen to her complaints
* You are disrespectful and rude at times
* You are controlling

How could you possibly not mention the elephant when it's sitting on you and killing you?

Most marriage counselors have no earthly idea how to help a couple whose spouse is having or has just finished an affair and can do much more harm than good.

The problem in your marriage right now is the affair. Nothing will get better until the affair is killed completely.

At least call up the MC and ask if they are experts in handling a marriage suffering from an affair. Most MC truly is a waste of time and money. Ask me how I know. (months and months of counseling still led to an unrecovered marriage, resentment, and a 2nd affair!)

I see your point. I am trying to regain some trust with her as she knows i have been digging into this. this person is a cop and she does also get very upset if i talk to her family this honestly may or may not be worth saving at this point i do still love her but this is a bit much after 5 years with her and 1 year of marriage. also if she does not change her work schedule i do not see how we could possibly imporve as not time spent to fill up the love bank which led to this in the first place.

You don't need to regain her trust.
SHE is the one having an affair.
The affair needs to die before anything else is done.

What does this mean? Was this an opposite sex 'friend'?

clintonior,

Please please understand that Dr. Harley is the very best at busting up the affair, and he is the very best at helping couples have a great mariage after the affair ends. (you can very well have a much better marriage after the affair ends)
...... In order to do this, you must take his advice. He has helped thousands of couples just like you.
I can help you figure out about the voice activated recorder. I can post later about this, or you can pm me and I will help as soon as I can.

Please please listen to the vets here, they can help you greatly. Please follow Dr. Harley's teachings, you will not regret it.

huh? ARe you joking? If you are having a heart attack do you go to the doctor and talk about the price of tea in China?

First off, counseling is useless and will likely ruin your chances at saving your marriage. But if you are going to go, why sit there and play pretend games about the problem?

Just tell her you have changed your mind.

So last nite I caused and issue with the other person I ended up talking to him they both say its only friends. that they met working. she semmed happier after we talked. he says we will not separate. i am not able to expose much more of this as he is a police office from what im being told. i may try the recorder ect but it will have to wait till after our intake appointment today I will try to focus on what has been exposed I agree this appears to be the only thing in the way of our marriage at this point.

The voice activate recorder helped me greatly in establishing the fact that my wife is no longer in her affair. (For me it is peace of mind)

I bought 2 Olympus recorders. (The $60 version)
You can get it at best buy or radio shack,
The guy at radio shack helped me set it to voice activated mode.
(That is a must)
You need to go to Walmart and get some velcrow.
(Soft end on the back of recorder)

Sir, you need to expose this adultery.
Contact the mans parents and ask them to tell their son to leave your wife alone.
Also contact the Commander of the Police Dept where they work and tell him that he is having an affair with your wife.

Since you refuse to follow the advice here and are proceeding with the counseling appointment, I will offer one more advice:

When you go to counseling, the only thing you should say is : "I am willing to work with you to create a loving marriage but you must first end your affair."

When she says it is not an affair, tell her : "I have evidence of your adultery and it devastates me."

Do NOT discuss anything else.
Can you do this?

I can but i dont have high hopes for that approach but its the elephant in the room. my feeble attempts have alredy caused her to withdraw at this point. there may be no real resolution to this event.

our fight has gone on for a month and a week and only now will she attend counseling with me.

all i have exposed is i know she has lied to me about this and she dosent acknowledge that or skips past it. and flips it to my actions as the problem.
all i have exposed to this point is she dosent know the OM wife. The OM has no girlfriend. They text each other way to much and comunicate call ect. I work days she is working nights I know she shops in the vicinty of his home area during the day. They both admit they met at work but dont work at the same place. she ia a nurse and he is a cop from another town with a pt pizza place job. pizza place job is only job confirmed also from what i can tell live above the pizza place. OM wife say Please be carful. she can not share more her father said to me there is a restraint order put on him he was fired from that local PD. they have been separated for a year. my wife is adamit she hasnt slept with him and that they are mutual friends with others from work. i dont have any real infidelity type info

Please listen to the clips in here.

Beware of Bad Counselors

Sir, her affair has caused her to withdraw.
Not your attempts to win her back.

Sir, you don't need pictures of them having sex to prove an affair.
It appears you are in serious denial and listening (and believing) your wife's lies.

Clintoninor,

You wrote, he was fired from that local PD

Why was he fired? I have noticed that there is a minority of police officers who abuse their position of respect to serial cheat. You may be able to make a request for his employment records if those records are public information in your state.

God Bless
Gamma

wow
some serious denial by you
some serious gaslighting by your wayward

Are you going to follow any of the advice given?

Seems like you are locked in fear, we have all been there before. Find your manhood and listen and USE the advice given here.

Clinton,

If you continue down the path you are headed, it is likely your WW will leave you.
She will likely interpret your actions as ...... My husband doesn't care enough to try to stop my affair.

Follow the advice given here by these vets. Many of them have been there, and it worked for them. Dr. Harley knows what he is doing.

I have made several unproductive attempts to end this. but i will grab a recorder tonight and try that approach. I will want 2 eventually one for the car and bedroom.

I recommend the Olympus. ($60 version)
You can get it at best buy or radio shack.
The guy at radio shack helped me set it up.
(You need to set it to voice activated mode)
You will need velcrow. You can get that at Wal mart.
Soft end on the back of the recorder, hard end on the surface where you will stick it.
Let me know if you have any questions.

I have the olympus. it set to VCVA do i want the high rec or low record for voice in the car?

I think you would really benefit from a PI in your situation. This guy clearly has quite the deep dark past. I'd guess this is not his first affair and he probably misused his position to cheat or commit domestic violence. Hire a PI who can get you both a background check and evidence of the A.

In the meantime, don't go to counselling because she will use that scenario to fight with you. She's all about gathering justifaction right now. Say no regretfully but that you'd love to take her out to dinner if she has time to talk. She will say no of course (which is actually good; she will fight over dinner too) but she will remember the offer.

My game plan would be:
1 Find evidence and a lot of smut on OM.
2 Expose WW and expose him, including his background to everyone and online i.e. cheaterville.
3 Step back while he and WW fight about all the stuff he didn't tell her and how her family is not going to accept him now.
4 Step back as OM realises he really doesn't have to put up with all of this for a piece of tail.
5 Show WW how loving and forgiving you can be, even in the face of the unmitigated fury she has tried to put you through during steps 3 and 4.
6 As affair collapses, watch WW realise she really might as well genuinely try with you as she now has few options.
7 Now in a position of power, you insist on a job change and full compliance with the MB recovery plan 'because I want you to feel as in love as I am'

It doesn't always work but we see this succeed again and again where other approaches have 100pc failure.

It's particularly effective with the scummier types of OM who have previous incidents of this type in their past.

Can you afford a PI?

Private Investigators

right now I dont think i could I may have to take credit of sorts on that one. I have a pair of panties she came home a swapped out one day with a coffe spill on the left side which if she was driving seems highly unlikley. i put em in the freezer.

You can buy tester kits online but I don't know how freezing affects it.

Here Semen Detection Kits

Brainy can find and cite any source out there...including Semen Detection kits. Amazing.

Haha that probably is weird huh?

if i can afford that i will pay to have it typed i suppose. but my recorder recorded her meeting the OM yesterday ofcoure right after she mentioned to me that she cut off contact and would only be at work ect. she refered to me as "never know when psyco will come home" and was overly friendly in the conversation technically thats all i need to know its an emotional affair since she claims its only friends. i contacted a PI she said she could get photos of them together. but that still leaves it open to "friednship" so now the recorder is in WW car since they meet up her work schedule might prevent an occurence for a few days but i was surprised how well the olympus worked i will need one more. also I at one point whhen we were arguing before now she said if i want to make a messy divorce then tell her family more bulls&*t. I talked with a friend who thinks if i embarrass her to her family like you suggest she will not forgive me for that probably ever. is there any other way to expose her and have this stop i figure its very unlikley.

If you suspect she is in an EA, then she is. You know because you know...it's instinct. When I had suspicions, I let it go to long because my H gaslighted me, telling me they were just "friends" and I needed to stop being so ridiculous. By letting it go on like that for months, their bond got stronger and stronger. Their EA turned into more. All the while, my H told me he loved me! Now, we are going through divorce and his family is angry and blaming me for not exposing to them first. I didn't because of the same reasons you are giving. I suggest you do whatever you need to do to get the evidence and then to expose and break up the EA TODAY. If she wants the marriage to work, she will forgive you and understand in time. She will be furious in the short term, but you don't have much choice.

So you are going to listen to your friend who has absolutely zero experience in saving marriages? Is that right?

Please FOLLOW the advice you have been given.
Do not deviate or worry about offending the wayward.
The wayward is an addict, think of it in those terms.

i'm not in denial im clearly aware this is going on.and yes she has used the im controling and when we met i didnt like her drinking with her friends ect. I've alredy caught her in several lies. she sates its just a friendship i feel i need to prove its more. i got a good one on tape last nite but really dosent cover more than he brought her a tea that they both worked at 2 she wasnt allowing him to the house so met at boat ramp this after telling me yesterday that there was no more OM as it was strictly an at work contact. so yes thats another lie but its in her car now where i belive OM is usually driving her around in at times. so hopefully i will get full conversation which will either prove or disprove cheating ect. with any luck. im in the carrot stage gathering my stick i would say even though she is aware i have caught her in many lies and we have fought she has said she will move out and still be friends so i am not priority #1 anymore. where am i going with this well. i love her i hope to matain our marriage her parents are married 25+ and have been thru several of these is this what i want no not really but my parents have divorced sevral times each i see no point honestly. mabye thats standing but i have seen happy couples who have had their share of issues and will stand as long as i can, now I do not want to wait and allow for more to happen ect so im gathering as fast as i can hoping to get something tangible to blow this out of the water EXPOSURE.

Clinton,

All your words and actions are fear based. A perfect storm for OM to steal your wife from you. Stop playing their cat and mouse games with them. Its keeping them together. You are humoring them. Stop worrying about what your wife might think of you later or having blow them out of the water evidence to prove an affair. That's neurotic and weak. And you can't have a sit down discussion about your feelings and concerns nor argue your points with your WW. Sure you can continue to collect evidence but your energy needs to go into exposure to kill the affair. You are not a mouse. You are a bulldog. Got it? Self respect--- here you come. Stop dawdling. Get this guys paws off your wife today!

It's embarrassing to cat around with another man. It's not embarrassing to have a husband help you stop and ask for the help and support of others.

One thing I've found out about exposure is that people already know or suspect but can't do anything. With exposure they can.

well they she text me and asked if i was talking to his EX Jenn. i said no. i assume their together as he text me next i belive i did cat a mouse abit as i asked for this to stop i probably hummored them just like you say in fact i know i did. anyways i hope it was in her car so i have the interaction on tape mabye i will be able to use that to expose the affair. i said you both use classic affiar lies and the response was exactlly your an idiot. which is an issue. I will have to expose for what is worth as soon as i can.

i assume this will go very badly at first. i might need plan b as i dont want her to accuse me of any domestic stuff.

could we re discuss what appropriate exposure of this would be. I can lay out what i have but so far it bassically is me not ok with the friendship a dead horse at this point. i think if i have some new tape mabye it will be better for this?

Clinton,
I am sure I am not the only one who doesn't understand what you are doing or saying.

Use paragraphs.

Use full sentences.

Stick to one thought in each sentence.

Clinton: you are sounding like a mess. I'm sure your head is spinning and you came to the right place for help..here! Listen to what everyone here is telling you because we all went through all this and we know what is coming next. You have to stay as calm as you can and make a deliberate effort to blow up the affair in any way, shape or form. If this is just a "friendship" your wife wouldn't be so upset about ending it. That, in itself, is just cause because that means it has turned into an emotional affair (which is just as bad).

Oh Im a mess as I was totaly in love with my WW and actually never even thought WW would do this. I will say that I can see a way out now. Like I said I'm in the Carrot and Stick phase here. Maintaing and keeping a calm household. (less the text attacks) Mostly trying to gather info that will blow this up when Exposure is revealed (hopefully). I know she will bolt and possibly move in with the OM when the lid goes boom. WW is absolutly not willing to change or end this so. Plan B is a reality at this point.

Once you expose she will be furious, of course. She needs to leave her job with the OM anyway. Can you use your influence with her parents or siblings or friends...to try and explain to her that she needs to give her marriage the effort for the sake of her children? Can they tell her that you will make any necessary changes so you have a healthy happy marriage and can start fresh. She'll be too angry to talk to you, but is there someone else that can get through to her after exposure?

I feel there is her cousin. I'm not positive about her mother. WW Mother has already made the statement "she is her mothers daughter" and from what my WW wife has stated is there has been infidelity in their marriage sevral time possibly. Eluding to she will do what I did ect. Aunts & uncles perhaps. WW has stated WW loves her job and wont quit. WW did apply for a day time position which is how things got out of control perhaps. I feel WW working nights gave her to much time away and oportunity to drink and socialize which made me upset and pushed her away. I'm assuming cuz I wanted her to get a different job that she loves now came off as a threat. WW just beacame a nurse and this is important to her perhaps most important. WW and I have a fairly big age gap aswell.

Clinton,

Other than superficial discussion with your wife and blanket statements about wanting to establish a plan to recover your marriage---don't talk to your WW and scumbag and expose to them. They already know what they are doing. You are ridiculously humorous to them. Let go of your dream about the perfect exposure statement or photo or whatever you are waiting to get. You too already know what you are dealing with. You do not need your wife's validation. You do not need to worry about plan B. You do not need to worry about your wife's reaction. You need to expose.

so clarify expose please.

You call important people in the lives of you, your wife and the other man's life and either speak to them personally to ask them for help in using their influence on your wife/the other man to make them stop their inappropriate relationship.

You do not tell them to retaliate, but to ask for their help in stopping the affair. You do all exposure at once. See
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2566617

Your best help is to follow Melody Lane's thread which she has pulled from Dr Harley's guidelines. Do you have Dr Harely's book Surviving an Affair?

Also consider getting one on one coaching from Steve Harley or write to MB Radio. Its just that you seem to have an easy time tripping on your own 'hopes' rather than actually killing the affair.

I exposed the affair. WW says I've gone to far , wouldn't belive her is mad kicked me out at 130 she was talking to OM. Told me now she would go f OM since I accused her. At 330 I cam home and am on couch. I did the exposue via fb using the template. She is agreeing now it was an EA and wanted me to clarify to the 18ppl I sent it to it was an EA not affair. I did but called it equally as damaging to our marriage. So now what WW displays all predicted reactions???? Little more help?

I would contact important family members of her directly. Also, did you contact the family of OM? Did you follow the link to exposure 101 and hit the most important targets?

Do NOT leave your house.
Do NOT allow her to get you to change the story. If you did that, you lost your credibiliity. My goodness, be a man, dont let a addict tell you what to do.

Did you expose to all family, kids, relatives, other friends, neighbors, clergy, etc?

Yes I used fb and exposed to her close family friends and the om separted wife I included her which i thought I was supposed to she imideatly began reading it to the om and began damage control. Ww stated if I expose any further it will make it worse.

Clinton: You need to show your wife you are a leader. You need to show her you are doing whatever you need to do to save your marriage. Tell her you are right and she is wrong and that's why you need to take control. He has no respect for you right now. If she leaves you, and if she is furious with you....she will respect you.

I can do that. She has squased it pretty good all her family has not contacted me yet.

I am sorry to read that you "clarified" it was an EA to your exposure targets. Please don't placate your WS anymore at the expense of your credibility.

You shouldn't leave your home and and you shouldn't sleep on the couch.

Have you contacted her family yourself and asked them to contact her?

Have you exposed the affair to the OM's wife?

Did you expose to her mother? To whom did you expose this affair? And what did you tell them? I hope you didn't write the same gobbledy [censored] we see here.

You contacted the 18 people you exposed to and told them it was an emotional affair because she told you to?
Sir, you are being bullied by your wife.
Don't let her kick you out of your home!

Sir,
From this point forward use these sentences to communicate with your wife:

"I am willing to work with you to create a loving romantic marriage but you must first end your affair with OM"

Just repeat that over and over

I feel she is out with him tonight she has pulled damage control on her family.
This made her so she doesn't want to fix us says makes her want to run to hom. I don't think this will have the desired results with her. She constantly always has asked not to share our issues outside this marriage. Yes I do feel she may be bullying me she was supposed to move out but hasnt she has said this I a phase before. I'm going to play the carrot and stick and keep with your statement.

That is quite a contradiction coming from someone who has brought a third party into your marriage by engaging in an affair. If she wanted to 'keep things in the marriage' than she would be working with you on the marriage, not engaging in an affair.

Sir, can you answer these questions please.

i sent it to OM Wife her mom and close family and friends. she didnt mind the faimily but says the friends were to far. W is writting me a letter today to express how she is feeling aparently communicating via text is not easy for her anymore. I used the template here and modified it to suit this exposure. i have no idea if it will have any desired consiquence as best evidence i have is a recording of her being to friendly with the OM and then calling me a psyco in that convo i confirmed it with the phone log.

The cheating spouse does not get to set limits to exposure of their affair. Follow Dr. Harley's plan. It is tried and true. She is spitting mad. That means you are succeeding.

You didn't get to set limits on her relationship with OM, did you? Follow the MB plan for best results.

no I have not set a plan for Plan A. let me give you an example of yesterday. 6am i leave give WW a kiss on the forehead and say "have a good day".

I work 7-4

WW got called into work drops kid off for 830 at work for 930 am
worked till 11pm but said she had to stay till other nurse showed up.

i pick up daughter at 4 dance 430 picke her up at 530 go to dinner at moms. kido goes to bed 830 I goto bed at 930pm.

WW got in the house at 1136 eats something she bought at applebees suposedly yesterday.
goes to bed 12pm.

we have almost no working relashionship due to her nursing hours. sadly and im not wanting to be controling but her job doesnt meet either of our EN's or PN's. she also works with all the ppl she has been hanging out with to included suspected OM.

if i were to idealy set boundries it would include a day job. and NC with OM.

WW is very defensive about changing her job WW has applied for a day position within the CO. and is being considered for the position. thats as far as that goes so far.

I have kept the house clean. and friendly at this point. we are comunicating with out LB's for 2 days halloween was not so good. WW saw my family nad the exposure and how WW felt the behaved pissed WW off alot.

WW text she will be grocery shopping today and if i could make out a list of what i would need/want. she has not shopped for me since we went together over a month 1/2 ago.

WW also has been laying out my clothes for me.

I feel me not being jelous or LB and making small talk is having positve affects.

however no plan other than continue marriage counseling( which our counselor is focused on me and my issues and wont see WW till i am less emotional which i actually feel i am as im not LB'ing anymore so far. i have also stopped digging and looking at phone log as it makes me jelous i continue to assume she is with OM. i was told she took my daughter to the circus with friends and children and OM was there Sunday.

so I'm reading the buyers renters and freeloader's link. and seems me asking her to sacrifice her job is my taker and makes me a renter?? any tips?

You are confusing concepts. A renter is someone who is in a relationship until something better comes along. Your taker is acting to protect you and your marriage. That is a distinctly buyer reaction.

We all have a giver and a taker, and keeping those two in balance is essential for healthy relationships. Buyers do not deny their takers. Buyers work to keep both their giver and taker happy.

no I have not set a plan for Plan A. let me give you an example of yesterday. 6am i leave give WW a kiss on the forehead and say "have a good day".

I work 7-4

WW got called into work drops kid off for 830 at work for 930 am
worked till 11pm but said she had to stay till other nurse showed up.

i pick up daughter at 4 dance 430 picke her up at 530 go to dinner at moms. kido goes to bed 830 I goto bed at 930pm.

WW got in the house at 1136 eats something she bought at applebees suposedly yesterday.
goes to bed 12pm.

we have almost no working relashionship due to her nursing hours. sadly and im not wanting to be controling but her job doesnt meet either of our EN's or PN's. she also works with all the ppl she has been hanging out with to included suspected OM.

if i were to idealy set boundries it would include a day job. and NC with OM.

WW is very defensive about changing her job WW has applied for a day position within the CO. and is being considered for the position. thats as far as that goes so far.

I have kept the house clean. and friendly at this point. we are comunicating with out LB's for 2 days halloween was not so good. WW saw my family nad the exposure and how WW felt the behaved pissed WW off alot.

WW text she will be grocery shopping today and if i could make out a list of what i would need/want. she has not shopped for me since we went together over a month 1/2 ago.

WW also has been laying out my clothes for me.

I feel me not being jelous or LB and making small talk is having positve affects.

however no plan other than continue marriage counseling( which our counselor is focused on me and my issues and wont see WW till i am less emotional which i actually feel i am as im not LB'ing anymore so far. i have also stopped digging and looking at phone log as it makes me jelous i continue to assume she is with OM. i was told she took my daughter to the circus with friends and children and OM was there Sunday.

Sir you should be looking at her phone logs so you know if the affair is ongoing.
I dont think this counselor is helping you at all.
Quit the counseling and focus on Dr. Harley's methods in Surviving an Affair

so in plan A I'm the buyer. but the plan utilize me being the giver so eventually the taker will get ticked off.

see I know my WW gets jelous of me. when i ask what WW does or is doing, i get "were not together right now so dont ask". when she ask she where i was WW just keeps repeating the question via text.

I cracked and lied said i went out for a drink passified the situation i needed to utilize her jelousey didnt I?

I have checked the phone logs thats how i determined who WW was likey having the affair with. I know who it is and have exposed. she was furrious but only admits to possible EA. i stopped checking i know if i do it is still going on she is always texting and seems to be avoiding FB.
I am currently avoiding LB's and have gone plan A complacent inviting home clean home ect. I have moved from the couch to an upstairs bedroom.
\
now with her schedule and her claims to be avoiding me till i go to sleep. there is absolutley no transparency in our relashionship currently. we are seppareted acording to her at the suggestion of our counsellor and what she saw on grey's anotomy last week. mabye you saw it..

she has sworn up and down nothing sexual is going on and claims I know she isnt like that and is hard to get. well I know just how long that took me. and this has gone on much longer so i have no doubt there is enough love deposits for something like that to happen. i know i can do that in 3-4 hrs tops if so chose to.

this is complete nonsense.
STOP VISITING THAT COUNSELOR!

Have you listened to these?

no I cant at work I would have to try them from home i guess. they wouldnt open up for me. she is treating my PTDS and anger issues and jelousy. and not my ww.. yet till i can take care of me. perhaps she views us as to far gone idk. i see her tomorrow again. i have been able to stop LB's since my last visit. which i feel is a good thing. Im also reading "connecting thru yes"..

Have you read Surviving an Affair?

well at our first visit My WW was pissed off and stated she was moving out to her my counselor agreed maybe it wouldnt be a bad idea. now she has not moved out but my WW has stated were not friends right now and or we are not together or separated. she worte me a note expressing she thought we should take a break I asked so do you want an open marriage WW replied "nope im just having lots of affairs". i'm going to counseling to make sure im being level headed and not making a bigger deal other than her schedule, friends and recent displeasure in our marrige i will say i have been reading the giver and taker and i have asked her to do things that were sacrfices that she did not want to do and also have said no to things she wanted. but high maintenace stuff mabye either way i can see how long term we are having issues i didnt see coming.

jedi_night Yes I have read thru most of the links in surving an affair. I have made big errors already and am not completly on track for a sucessful exposere. I made many LB's prior talked to her busted her in lies and bassicaly dug into and got caught doing that she knows about my recorder and i slashed OM tire she busted me on that aswell. WW is no dummy. she asks me what i do expects answers or gets BS and will leave. i ask her and its a LB ect no reply just were not together. so my current approach is to look attractive again by letting this die down and small talk and plan A clean hose inviting home. before she was saying coming home was uncomfortable for her. not cool with me. so clearly i found MB a bit late now im trying to get on track. this is where im at i read the stuff till im blue in the face it dosent fit my situation very well. as im past keeping it together. I need to establish the reconsillation rules for plan A at some point with her. but to her the affair if i keep mentioning it is an LB at this point

The first part of Plan A is a widespread exposure of the Affair with a compassionate plea requesting support in steering her head out of her waywardness and support for your marrige.

At the same time, you do No Lovebusters.

BUT, exposing the Affair is NOT a Lovebuster!!!

Plan A without full exposure to everyone who could possibly offer support is Plan Doormat.

Only those who fight strategically with a strong backbone succeed.

No Doormats succeed.

LTL

Dear friends and family,
I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of WW and I. As some of you know, WW has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with an man named OM who resides in College Hill area of Wor MA. He is also married/ separated and has young children. The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.
She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my WW, Please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. OM is who WW is having the affair with. OM was fired from Portsmouth State University Police force for sexual misconduct with students while abusing his role as Police officer to do so. OM has separated from his wife OMW of 6 months while she was pregnant with their second child.
OM verbally abused his wife during the infidelity incidents a Portsmouth State University leading to a fight which ultimately led to OMW filing a restraint order against OM. OM works at pizza shop in Wor MA.
I have had a few conversations with OMW Father DAD he has verified the info and I have recorded conversation of WW planning to meet OM at the boat ramp Thursday 23 Oct. I was told by WW the night before she told OM via phone call though she was out all night that they would not be seeing each other except at work. This was obviously not true.
I want to stay married to WW and love our family unit. Over the years WW and I have had to overcome much together to become a loving couple this I love most, but the affair must end.
As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with WW to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support.

Warmest regards, H

ive posted my facebook exposure i did forget an important person OM sister who i found on fb he is from a catholic family. not sure if that means anything. i also included my WW which i found out was a big no no. so she repoted it as spam or abuse and fb shut it down. i would like to forward it to the sister so his family knows he is doing this however ww is extrealy untrusting of me and ready to move out and has said she hasnt had an affair but if i keep saying affair shell just go and meke it true, not exactly what id be ok with. i have absolutley no proof of a PA only that an EA is likley..

OK ... once you've snooped and you know there is an affair ... and your spouse refuses to end the affair relationship ... you will hear:

"It's only a friendship."
"You are too controling."
"I love you but I am not in love with you."
"You are too suspicious."
"You are crazy."
"Our marriage never worked."
"I've never been happy."
"Our marriage was a mistake from the start."

TIME for exposure.

WAT has a great exposure thread ... read it

Exposure is NOT to the 2 infidels ... they already know they are in an affair!

You expose to the other betrayed spouse first.

she has said all of this. i screwed up and exposed to her she pulled damage control. also the betrayed spouse is going for a divorce and wont assit me anymore on this.

Clintonior,
A true Catholic has huge problems with infidelity of any sort.

Bump.

some insight. recived this message from WW today.

"I'm not holding a grudge, I'm just not sure what is going on- I don't know how I feel I don't know what i want....a lot of stuff has happened between us... and things went on... that shouldnt have.. and hard to take back.. I'm working ect. chat later

so this currently shows our distace. she is likley in withdrawl as result of LB..

No.
She is having an affair and in the fog.
Focus on busting up the affair and Plan A.
PLEASE READ SURVIVING AN AFFAIR book

Jedi I out up alot of requested info. i put up the exposure letter you requested. would you be able to re review the info from say the top of page ten. and give me some bullets.

I agree she had addmited during the exposure that the word affair bothered her and that she could agree it was an EA so she asked me to clarify that to those who were notified.
I'm trying to bust this up. i also trying to avoid LB's at the moment aswell. but if you could please review the info above again sir.

Did you ever reclarify to your exposure targets that she is definitely involved in an affair with the POSOM and that you have her admission as proof and would like their ongoing support to help your marriage, because no marriage can even have a chance if their is another person involved?

LTL

LTL.

I made a large misteak and included my WW in the exposure. due to some of the info being unclear to me at the time. this led to her imidatley pulling Damage control on those i messaged because of that she was able to report the thread as spam/harrasment and get it shut down.( this should also be mention on here that FB will close a message like that if they feel its harrasment.
I also only recently discovered OM brother and sister on FB i plan to Expose to them as they are a catholic family.

the OM has been married to his separated W for 1 1/2 years but at 6 months pregnant he was fired for sexual misconduct while mis becoming of an officer. eventuly a DV and restraint order placed on him. He will not sign the divorce and she can offer me no help due to the nature of that.

My WW supposedly works with OM i have today contacted the HR VP at her employment to disscus the delicate matter. I do not want to LB anymore. my plan A needs to build some love deposits if possible.

I tried to handle this in my own way first before finding MB and caused alot of withdrawls as she was likley alredy in the fog and i was bitching about all sorts of stuff she was lying when my daughter mentiond craigs name the first time and told me she meant Greg and susan close but not the OM name my daughter said. I guess that would be D day.

I also have exposed MB to her in a conversation she is very shrewd and does get the truth out of me. she knows i used a voice recorder as well and i assume she does not make calls inside the house anymore.
I very likley need a coach at this point as i have lost alot of ground with the technique and my WW.
I am more calm now and feel able to implement a sound plan A. however mine is complicated by this.
and i havent seen this mentioned other than she is more likley to have an affair.
My WW wife works nights and after a 3-11 shift she can be mandated to stay and cover a shift if someone is late or cant show up. this makes hanging out for an hour after her shift for a drink or whatever easy.

also because our daughter has day care she can drop her off early and go do what she has planned. ( calls it living life to its fullest)

so my day ends i have to pick up my daughter. she knows I do and exactly where i am. cake.

My Plan A has no real interaction time to deposit love balances. this is what i belive led to her affair in the first place. if i asked why she didnt pick up made a love withdrawal ect.

I am contacting her hr VP to see if she can assit my plan A buy transfer or schedule change or what ever may help save my marriage. plus it part of the plan A exposure break up the affair ect.

HEADS UP: her work situation just thwarted my plans to expose they are going to pay for her to get her BSN.
as i care for her greatly i do not think i will expose to the employer as this could help us. as having a BSN will open up many day job opurtunities in the future also her free time will be filled with classes. I may stagnate perhaps in Plan A. i just got news of this. i do not know any time tables for this as of yet. but i know that it would be a HUGE love buster if i blew education for her kind of wouldnt touch that one with a ten foot carrot on a stick.

Buddy, there is NO MORE "Us" while she is having contact with her affair partner.

You should more correctly say, this will benefet my WW and POSOM so much. I am so happy that they will get all the benefits from this.

LTL

good point. LTL good point..

Sir, you need to expose to work.
Stop worrying about offending her and expose to the employers

Sir,

Dr. Harley would tell you to expose to the employer.
Do you understand this?

Post the OM on Cheaterville here: www.cheaterville.com

I did just expose to work I spoke with the hr dept. The Woman I spoke to will do an small internal investigtion. I have no proof yet that POSOM does actually work there my WW says he does. When I had a conversation with him one time OM said he did not work with her but met WW at her work. It could've been POF for all I know at this point.

Sir,
You need to call OM wife and ask where he works

OMW wont assit me stating safety concerns for her and her children. OMW father stated he didnt know where he worked i told him a pizza place he said that makes sense he did work there before meeting his daughter and i told him about where my WW works since she states he works there and she says a police dept. also but if he works where she works they work them around the clock very unlikley.

Did you post OM on Cheaterville?

This is how you find where he works:
Call your ww employer and ask to speak with OM.
Call the pizza shop and ask to speak with OM.
Call the police station and ask to speak to OM.

Have to register still on cheatervill.
Pizza place is supposed to be some family biz
Police station don't know what town it woud be

Well start by calling ww employer and tell them it is an urgent phone call for OM.

Clint just wanted to say youre not alone, just posted my story last night and sounds like your WS and mine could be twins. I too am getting its just a friend you controlling psycho, etc. I hope both our stories end well, esp since you have kids? My prayers go out to you..its too bad these spouses dont understand how loved they are for us to even be on this forum rather than taking the easy wsy out most of society does and kicking their butts to the curb for a better model. Thats love I guess.

good luck, I am following your journey with hope for you

So. yesterday WW worked late on her day with our daugther so I picked daughter up and then asked WW if she was coming to get daughter.. well this caused WW to be a bit argumenative via text saying she has her these days I have her these days and she will be moving out ect.. will WW remains to be seen this would be the fourth or fifth mention of moving out at this point. I'm still prepared to be in plan A for longer. im guessing me mentioning it was her night was a bit of an LB or appered to come across as such. I did just get out of counseling and was a bit worked up.

I should ask perhaps is there a forum here that is more useful as how to avoid LB's ect..

Do you have the book Love Busters?

Did you respond about her moving out? Did you fight?

What is the counseling for?

I dont I have surviving an affair on order and connecting thru yes aswell as hope for separated: wounded marriages can be healed was like 1.97 used grabbed it.

I did not respond i was tired and text GN to her was all. hope no love busting there. she said she will still go shopping tomorrow or sat.. so i assume it blew over..

we are doing marriage counseling. WW and I have only been to an initial session. i have been seen 3 times for my jelousy and PTSD issues. except yesterday was mostly just me venting plan A to my psyc.

she would like to see us both next week and may do a half hour with my wife alone.

thank you. well let me just tell you I tried to handle this on instinct first big failure. i would have to agree you need to own this if you implment exposure 101. I made many errors. I pushed my wife bassically into the POSOM for all i know. if you have read thru this i hope you pick up on my errors either way sucess in this is best hope situation i feel. avoid Love busting learn to bite your tounge it really dosent take much to set off a defensive wife.. like last nite was her nite she olny picked it last week and she worked thru it. "i said are you picking up (kid)" WW was like what do you mean. im like last week you rescheduled with my mom so you could have wednesdays. well you guess ( " Really? is it that hard for you to go get her while i work ect." total defensive bull.... I said its your day you picked it last week anyways i have her ttyl..

Have you listened to these clips? Have you written Dr Harley?

Beware of Bad Counselors

Yes Brain Hurts, I did listen to them so so helpful mabye I'll listen again. If WW does not attened this coming Wed. I will not continue with current counselor. But I also see on here alot of ppl using counselors in plan A.

I feel I need to establish my Plan A so as not to be a doormat. A feeling I'm starting to identify with.

My exposure didn't do so well, I was unclear on exactly how I was to do it. The exposure got botched. Now I need a consise firm plan A, Also where do I obtain a POJA? I havent found one yet on the site??

Then its off to plan B which I can elaborate my concerns so I may draft the letter correctly?. ect..

Plan A is full exposure to all friends and family, asking them to help you end the affair, eliminating your love busters, expressing your willingness to meet your wife's ENs once her affair is over.

For a man, Plan A can be up to six months, because a man's health does not usually suffer. You may need ADs to help if you are suffering depression, but a man can usually stay in a good Plan A for a long while, only going into Plan B if he starts to hate his wife or his health begins to suffer.

So plan to stay in Plan A for a while.

Most MCs have no idea how to counsel a couple in which one spouse is having an affair. It's very important to find MC who specializes in infidelity. This board usually discourages posters from the usual run-of-the-mill MC because of the lack of success. Does your counselor understand the fog and addiction of affairs?

New info: So WW and I have been doing dinner once a week usually tuesday before she runs of into the evening and does whatever.
Now since I Exposed her I asked "we were doing dinner nites before did that stop?" WW replied " when u thought being an [censored] was a good idea"

I should continue to try and maintain these dinners or let it go for abit? seems i constatnly lose ground with the exposure and my WW in the fog.

Oh did I mention she goes to the gym now. yep so if I ask where she is probably the gym now..

The counselor did agree that my WW appears to have an addictive personality and she agreed the affair would be addictive if her emotional needs were met.

I also discovered that i have over the years noticed my WW to be mabye a workaholic. I came across some info that suggest a workaholic can have their EN's met by working WW 40-80 hrs a week (supposedly not enough transparecny to belive 80) now with that it stated the marriage could be in horrible state but the workaholic will say they are happily married and couldnt love each other more.
which did occur on halloween my WW cleaned the house. invited college friends over that do not know or current situation. My WW proceed to tell her that we are super in love and will always be together forever. HELLO right in front of me. I smiled as i love to hear that and took me by surprise. i will say by the end of the night im sure she told the whole story as they hung back while friends H and I took kids around trick or treating.. sounds nuts dosent it.

Just focus on reading Surviving an Affair

NO. No. No.
Nobody on this forum told you to use a counselor.
I specifically told you not to attend your first meeting.
Counseling will not help you.
Reading Surviving an Affair and following the guidelines of Dr. Harley is your best hope.

That's complete nonsense.
I work long days and don't have many emotional needs met.

You need to stop reading about workaholics and find out where OM works and if he works with your wife.
You are wasting your time with these other websites and books you are reading.

SAA should be here in a few days I'll read it all. Communicating thru yes is at the house I'll read it tonight for some insight aswell

You haven't exposed to your friends and that is why she lies to them.
It's a shame because they could have encouraged her to end her affair but instead they are kept in the dark by you and her.

That book will not help you.
Why aren't you finding out where om works?
Did you call the company like I suggested and say you have an emergency phone call for OM?

Ive only met these two once mabye twice. I'm sure th reason she invited them to halloween is to put distance between me and her. and that they new nothing about current situation. she simply hung out with her friend once we went to the second location and chatted it up. while i was with the little one.

I have her employer looking into inappropriate behavior between om and my ww. She said she doesn't intend to include me in her plans and is moving out. So headed to plan b.

You didn't answer my questions.
Did you call ww employer and say its an emergency call for OM? If he works there then they would put him on the phone.
If not then they would say "That man does not work here."

Did you do this?

Am i wasting time writing to you? It seems like you are just doing your own plan.

Were past that now to much lb in a fight last nite. She want divorce and won't move out. Seems I can't legaly kick her out of we are married. Any advice on that she is a major procrastinator. She will add 2 weeks to anything. I was trying to get into plan b without lb but she took off yesterday i thought to boston for the day but was apparently wrong again aboit where she was. Anyway very doubtful anything left to save. Things have been said we likey both regret and not a lot of love left

So the dust has cleared a little. I probably still have an opurtunity to stay in Plan A. WW would rather stay than move 45 mins away to stay with her mother and father. I'm looking for advise. I perpetrated a Big LB via text Sunday Nite. Basically she brought up me trying to have a beer with OM as she was with him likely cat n mouse. I tought she went to a hotel in Boston which has a water park for kids. she seems to plan these play dates when OM has his kid/s.
turns out she was likley at his home said she was watching football but mentioned she might stay out and be home by 5am ish.

I lost it after the beer comment said hurtful things cause I was hurt obviously. stuff i shouldnt have said mostly LB's Ive been good to hold back so far till sunday.

its been mentioned that separation is more likley to lead to divorce. but Lbs are just a bad i assume. should i plan a or plan b. I think now im confused as to what course of action to take.

I also spoke to a lawyer who states a can not kick her out. but i can ask her to move out. I was told the laws in Mass prevent me from doing so I had just spent 90$ on new locks I wont be using from what i undestand.

POJA what is it? and how to make one?

Havent found any clear info on what a POJA is and how it should lay out recovery? any help would be great

There is an article by Dr Harley about it in the Articles section on this site. He also writes about it in every book that he's written - have you read any of his books? He also discusses it almost daily on the radio show and there are numerous threads about it in the forum Marriage Builders 101.

Have you not read the Basic Concepts?
A Brief Summary of Dr. Harley's Basic Conceptssummary

POJA = Policy of Joint Agreement

I see my threads merged i was hoping not to do that. I know what it POJA stands for.

i want to know how to make one for plan B.

Jedi-Nikght I did confirm OM works at the same place as WW.

You don't POJA Plan B. You just do it.

Isn't it a little early for you to be going to Plan B?

I feel it is. i think WW may move to her mothers house. WW would stay past the holidays. WW did lock me out of the house yesterday for about 3 hours.

WW & I are separted according to WW and living under the same roof. WW is in master bedroom with our D. I am upstiars in another room.

I unleashsed some bad LB's the other day. I had been trying very hard to restore love and show i was not prying so much. but when WW showed D a place the would be going on the pc. i looked in the history and found it was a hotel in boston. wolf lodge. then as we were texting she told me she would not be coming home till 430pm so D could goto Dance class. then she text why dont i go do a beer with Craig. (cat n mouse) new they were together and i lost it. obviously LB-ing the situation.

She will be at todays counseling. we are going to talk about what we should do for future as opposed to talk about past issues today. at 4.

yes WW could stay. i have no proof of sex occuring only my assumption. she states it not that way ect. it most deffinatley is an affair emotional with proof. physical with out proof.

I could use anti depressants most likley. I can not talk about this with out my voice giving out.
I have a pre nup that covers my house only. i do not belive it states her removal from the home that in my state has to be done in court.

with that said she has found my plan b letter and read it. i was drafting one up and did not hide it well enough. this has her beliving i do not wish to talk unless it has to do with D. ect.

I could continue with plan A. but There has been unproductive LB's that happened. i realize my mood is linked to snooping the A becomes locked in my head and i let out my feelings when i snoop.

Only go to Plan B if you are ready for the marriage to end. It will not win your wife back to you. WW do not respond well to Plan B.

Plan B will be the end of your marriage.

If you get on antidepressants and calm down, you do have a chance of winning your wife back with Plan A. You have only just started.

ok I will do what i can to keep her home.

I will say the fog is thick it seems so hopless breaking this up. id say the 6 mo would be the minimum for this to disolve at this point after WW & I did our annivarseray ww seemed to go full speed ahead on this as i unintentionally pushed her into the Om by arguing and digging before i found MB.

clinton, face up and be a man about the love busting behavior. They didn't just happen, and stop saying they "happened," and start saying "I made this mistake, and I won't do it again." They are a choice that you make. One of several possible choices. The worst of several possible choices, in fact!

The snooping doesn't make you love bust. It makes you feel bad to see the bad news, and then you choose your response, in this case, the wrong response.

And you are not "letting out your feelings." You are doing and saying things that are demanding, disrespectful, or angry. Stop doing those things. There are plenty of ways to express your feelings without being demanding, disrespectful, or angry. Just state how you feel: "Your relationship with OM is the most devastating thing that ever happened to me." There, that was easy, no demands, disrespect, or angry outbursts.

Will you get on antidepressants?

clinton, are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show daily so you can learn how to eliminate the love busters?

I will schedule an appointment.

(clinton, are you listening to the Marriage Builders Radio show daily so you can learn how to eliminate the love busters?)
no actually I am not this would be the first suggestion of it.

yes your right I made a bad choice to LB. it will not be helpful in any way. and likley has undone much i have tried to accomplish I belive it has to do with my feeling a bit hopeless at this point.

Good. Get the meds, and start listening to the radio show. This will help you immensely.

How do i tune into the show?

Marriage Builders Radio

Install the app, or visit the radio page on this website and click the listen now link.

The show runs 24/7 - each day's show is repeated every hour until the next new show airs. So you can listen any time.

About three weeks ago you were told to listen to a clip from the radio show.

How can you not know about it after that? Did you listen to the clip?

As well as the specific advice on your thread, do you read any other threads in this forum? Aren't you interested in reading about situations very similar to yours? If you read any advice on here you must have seen that we tell people to listen to the radio show all the time!

You were reminded to listen.

Your response:

Last week you wrote

I did listen to the clip. I didnt realize there was live shows. also i did have to use my phone to listen but that was fine. i will check them out tonight.

I almost forgot the most important thing today. I confirmed OM works with my WW using the automated directory. indeed OM does work with her. OM told me he did not work there WW says he does. ]
with that I exposed the affair to The VP at their location using the workplace template via e-mail.
I have read a few post stating the work exposure to be very helpful.

Great step to take!

Markos, Prisa..
My situation is my WW works nights nurse. I work days and have for last 10 years +. She gets home at 1130 I go to sleep about 10. I hear her come in usually sometimes she gets in at 2 I'm told has to do with when the overnight gets in. WW has 3 days off a week. WW is using those days to see D and ends up seeing OM usually it seems to me but I have no real good proof other than D spills the beans and WW say yes I was with OM but other ppl & kids were there too.
I see her for about 3 hrs a week and she is likley going to move back to her mothers.

I'm goimg to install a key logger tonight should have a while ago any advise? I checked the sticky and it looks like it hasnt updated in quite awhile?

be careful to not get caught snooping

The Keyloggers in here are still some good ones. Let us know what you find.

Reason is it seems WW is coming home more often and eairler there is a slight frequency to this. Conversation is less but it is not always her LB or arguing or dismissve there is still some. WW & I are separeted in the house WW words. WW is in one room I am in another. Low tech I can here her typing thru the wall with a Glass. I can also hear any conversation she may have havent heard one yet. my VAR picks WW routine up every morning. she usually goes out to her car at some point. assuming mabye a call is made then.
I would like to know what is getting keyyed in at this point.

WW says she is moving out but shows no signs of that happening. continuing on with Plan A,

Get that keylogger on there ASAP.

Do you have a VAR in her car?

I need a VAR in the car. I tried once and the batteries died no recording. I have alredy exposed WW M&F dont support my FB exposure and wont communcate with me. in fact I dont feel any of her family care for the exposure nor have I recived any support.
WW will not give up job and OM works with her. I also feel they have similar sechedules. WW is not wearing wedding rings. I feel only plan B and a possible natural A collapse. is the only hope other than WW currently acting a bit less defensive latley.

Have you given her 30 days to resign or you'll expose at her job?

Dr. Harley recommends BHs stay in Plan A, for 6 months-2 years as long as he can handle it. Do you feel you can't handle it anymore?

Have you written Dr. Harley?

NO I haven't written Dr Harley and perhaps I should. Also I have been avoiding LB. Although a bit to late I really wish I had know I was on the wrong path to start.
I can stick it out for awhile things are more amicable. As for 30 Days to quit NO.. I havent as WW has stated she would chose her job ( her first real Job/Carrer as a nurse they are also going to pay for her to get her RN) Higly unlikey she will leave also that would be a demand and i have been avoiding demands as LB's. I have already exposed twice to her employer and they have yet to contact me back.

Yes write Dr Harley.

Who did you contact at her employer? Did you follow the workplace exposure in the Exposure 101 thread?

yes. I have contacted WW HR liason. yesterdays call was a follow up to a call made to the main office. sounded like she didnt know and had to check with them. but i will be able to call her back in a few days. I also wrote Dr harley yesterday.
as far as exposure i did follow 101 but i had alredy made arguments before findint this site aswell as i was directied to expose while i was still collecting info. I just got web watcher on WW PC last nite. she works late its unlikey its been used yet. but i will check later.

Clinton,

You are correct that you should not make demands of your wife.
I've pasted below a post from Dr. Harley about demands.
BUT you need to request that she leave the job.
Tell her that if she does leave her job your marriage will end in divorce. Tell her you are willing to work with her to create a loving marriage but she must first end her affair.

Well i aksed her to get a day Job. 5 months ago she said she was applying for a few. Then i mentioned it prior to D day. she said if she had to chose between her new carrer and me at this point {FOG} she would chose her job and Friends*..

So Technically I have made this demand my justification at that time was our opposite schedules were to hard on the marriage. which i 100% feel is why this happened. as i am not able to meet her EN's when she is never around me.

I should also explain I have a preneptuial on my house and land only. I built my log cabin post deployment 7 years ago. i had it coming into the marriage its next to family land and was unwilling to lose it in a divorce should one occur (year later?) good thing i have that.

I will say this created a feeling in my wife not to contribute into the home financially and feel it will never be hers i told her the nup disolves at 8 years of marriage. which is doable can overwrite it at any time really.

Brain hurts I did install key logger webwatcher.com. I also recived a call today from Joyce Harley i will make contact tomorrow.

Fantastic. Let us know when you'll be on the show.

Anything from the keylogger yet?

Nothing yet the VR did pick up WW talking with OM yesterday morning and a call before WW left to meet OM " ww stated she didn't know what she wanted to do when OM asked what WW wanted to do but that WW was bringing our D4 and going to meet OM that they had no plans " today WW also has off and told me that she would be gona all day and there wouldnt be very good cell service{bs}.
also i addressed i felt WW was with OM last nite{ which i am trying to avoid doing} and WW stated WW feels we are falling out of love {FOG} ect. but after some talk WW said good night. WW also mentioned WW may move out this weekend again.
The key logger hasn't picked anything up yet apparently today will be a busy day screwing around so ww went to bed early.

looking for a tip with the VR did the under the seat but got alot of road noise couldnt make out the phone calls very well. would a mic help? i dont have a lot of time to slip it into the car.

be on the show wednesday 24th

got some audio in the car yesterday. it has to much road noise to hear clearly but WW goes to other mans house. also there is a call where she may say " sure we can have S" but im going to have to clean up the audio. i will try tonight im a rookie but i saw audioacity has may have a simple clean up.

Do you mean Monday 24th, or Wednesday 26th?

Wed the 26th Nov. I was looking a Dec.

Good, will be listening.

Well WW went and did the nuclear ending. spoke to a divorce lawyer wed. we disscussed using marital court to remove WW from residence. that if we do it will get ugly fast. WW said she planned to move out this weekend. Laywer suggested we wait to see if WW spouse would move out. friday i recived a text saying WW would like my help that she was only working till 430pm saturday and we could go thru and sort her stuff in the basement and toss out garbage ect. well saturday morning I mentioned a few details I knew about her affair. I can not seem to keep in this whole mess well enough. nothing got ugly. but i recived a text " Do you want to go to dinner tonight" well I have been trying to get bk to dinner's with WW&i for awhile now. I said ww & I could goto Black N white and then come n pack. well WW came home and basically began to ask how i knew what i knew was her car bugged was her phone bugged. "tell me i'm trying to fix our marrige if you cant tell me we can't fix us" ect. making demands tell me or no dinner ect. was ugly enough. I said i could stop as i knew enough and was done. that i would tell her how. well,... my friend called she is a Psycholigist i reach out to and went to High school with. she cant be my psyc as we had been involved in the past. either way she wanted to go see " hunger games Mocking Jay" ww smiled ear to ear ohhh you have a date. i smiled and we joked about the whole stiuation she open the shower and talked to me even laying out clothes for me. we joked about an open marrige which seemed to excite her this time. i went out and she went out. i know she was with OM. sunday i asked her if WW was moving out she said "NO, Dont worry about it" i went to breakfast with my Dad. came home saw her car at my mothers it was unlocked and her phone was there. so i entered a password she told me once to my surprise it unlocked to MC LOVER OM text all deleted prior to sunday. nothing really there to look at. but MC Lover was very upsetting I broght the phone in and showed her and asked if she could please move out today. well dumb me went home. she was suppsoed to go do what she had planned for the day i assume. WW came in the house and asked to look at my phone as i had a date with the friend i said i have nothing to hide and entered my password and handed her the phone. she looked at all the text the went over to the couch and looked for another 5 mins. then stood up called the OM and said i have his phone. she began to make me nervous she was going to format my whole phone or break it ect. i asked for it back she walked to the other side of the coffe table she was 2 ft away i grabbed my phone but she pulled it away to slow. i stood up asked for it back twice stepped towards her and she threw it at the wall behind me. I picked up the phone and battery couldnt find the cover she was yelling ur done ect i left the house. to call an officer i spoke with a few times so far. i was told she was busy and to wait for her at the police station. YES i was arrested WW claims i pulled her hair in front of our child. she has no marks and refused to be medically reviewed. restraint order is now only a no abuse order. WW said she didnt know i would be arrested and she wants to use writ of marrige to drop charges on our next apperance. these are serious charges. I am told i will only be stay away from my home for this week. monday she will change the address. totaly saw this coming tried to get her out peacfully for over a month now. I'm very worried im practically guilty untill proven inocent at this point. the writ of marrige is completly oh her i have to be more than accomidating for over a month and a half now.

I do not know your whole story but you need a lawyer who has experience with domestic violence charges. If your state is like most, WW can not just drop charges. These charges can also affect your employment...now and in the future if the slate is not wiped clean.

I don't even want to begin...
Why do you date other women and why are you joking with your wife about open marriages? You are just giving her excuses to keep dating OM.

You have thrown your strategic thinking overboard. Never - NEVER - tell about your information sources. Apart from that, it may be illegal in your state to put spyware on her phone or a VAR in her car. And as you have already noticed, she is not your ally.

Stop plan Clintonior and start applying MB materials to a T.

Yes. WW still asks what I do at all times like she needs to know what im doing. while she carries on an affir. i will agree she royaly stuck it to me i will have to get a laywer who's gonna cost more than 3Gs at this point. WW is totaly inconsiderate considering this year alone. wedding, honeymoon to DR, annivasry vacation to DR. cost of pre nup pay for her laywer in pre nup. now defend a DV charge. this one year is not worth the heartache or happines at this point.

Sorry to hear what you're going through. So were there any other instances of her being violent or is this the first, just because you said you were going out with another woman? Do you have any documentation?

How in the world does this fit into Plan A?

This is not Plan A, and goes against everything Dr. Harley recommends.

Are you interested in following the program here, or are you just winging it?

Since you have professed to having anger issues, I have a hard time believing you are as innocent as you portray. People who have angry outbursts very often do not remember the extent of what they said or did.

WHY were you arrested?

If you are innocent, start wearing a VAR around her so that you can prove your innocence.

In the meantime, what are you doing about your anger?

Are you going to do Plan A or not?

She could only "stick it on you" with your enthousiastic cooperation. Had you not lost your cool and followed the plan, this would not have come up.
Also, you will live a more relaxed life and prevent future problems if you get into an anger management program and get full controll of yourself.

Clint,

"YES i was arrested"

You were most likely arrested and charged with domestic violence and battery because your W perceived you as a threat. Nice going in your attempt for a Plan A! Now on top of your other woes you have court dates and possibly jail. Adultery is immoral, but not hard to understand why your W wants you out of her life.

Tom

when I stated my counslor was addressing anger issues its because the affair was making me mad and jelous and i was love busting buy addressing the affair and getting into angry text sessions with my wife at work like 3 months ago. yes she has been somewhat violent in the past. she had taken my keys when i was on the couch and thrown them in the woods and threated to call the cops that day. she has locked me out of the house two weekends ago when i tried to call a divorce laywer to see how i could get her to move out. and stay in my house its not legal in Mass to kick your wife out or anyone aparently if their personal belonging are inside the residence. i would have had to go thru marital court. which was an option but since WW stated she was moving out last weekend my lawyer suggested to wait and see if WW would make good and move out. instead she usually work 14hr on a saturday but she was out at 430pm instead of 1115 pm instaed of packing she wanted to go to dinner. for weeks I was trying to go into Plan B she even found the letter and has it. Plan A wasnt working I belive because she works nights and i work days. any time she had off she would run to OM. so no love deposits just mostly withdrawls were what took place. we had separted in the home 2 months ago she never lifted a finger and stacked stuff in every corner of the room. I kept the main house clean and comfortalbe. but she just went into the messy room anyways. WW basically showed ect. and left to OM. when i realized her schedule wasnt condusive to any real communication or resolve I decided i needed WW to move out which WW has said every weekend she would be leaving for about the last 6 weeks now. the incident is this WW was allowed to look at my phone Sat morning, after i saw her phone she had OM loaded into her contacts as {MC LOVER} i had told her that morning its clear you love another man you really need to move out. this is the first time i said to WW she should move out. instead of going on with her day she came down to the home. then asked to see my phone since i had gone out to a movie the night before. she looked for 5 mins found nothing of real interest then proceeded to sit on the couch and look for spy software i assume as she belived i was finding out about her affair thru her phone somehow. i wasnt i used VR and did not tell her about them. she was ready to through her phone away and stop paying for her car as she assumed they were bugged. this also my fault for not being able to keep my mouth shut about some details i knew about her meetings with OM EX. meeting OM mom and a fish smell comment he made that embarraresed WW. well then she got up and with my phone in her hand called the OM and said " i have his phone what do i look for?" this made me want my phone back i feared she would format it and delete all info so it could not spy on her phone. she moved just to the other side of the coffee table and i tried real quick to grab it no luck. i stood up and moved around coffe table she had hung up on OM then i asked demandingly for it back and she thru it at the wall behind me. i found my phone and battery and left the house i didnt not find the back cover. as i was leaving she called back the OM and i heard WW say "call the police" as i shut the door to leave.
the rest ended up being her saying i pulled her hair. OM, the WW tells me is a cop. { that makes 3 jobs very unlikley as OM works full time with WW and her employer offers mandatory overtime also work at a pizza shop} i know he was a campus cop and was fired for sex with students at the college while using his role as an officer to do so he has a degree in criminal justice. I have a recording the night before of them talking about another cop and what she should do ect. I Feel OM put WW up to this and told WW what to say and do.

found this info about false accusation. the last sentence i feel has to do with marrige builder principles "they may behave somewhat passively as they continue to naively hope that everything will magically work out in the end."

"What do we know about men who become the targets of false allegations of abuse?

They tend to be your average nice guy who has a more nurturing and passive personality. These men are unlikely to be socially aggressive or competitive and tend to lack insight into their personal relationships, which may explain why so many of these men are thrown for a loop when their ex throws them under the bus � even when she�s made threats throughout their marriage to call 911 and have him arrested (Wakefield & Underwager, 1990).

Additionally, these men, because of their sensitive and caring natures, may be more vulnerable to relationships with needy and manipulative women. Once in a relationship with a high-conflict (HCP) and/or abusive personality disordered woman (APDI), they may behave somewhat passively as they continue to naively hope that everything will magically work out in the end.

Please answer.

Again, not Plan A.
Are you going to do Plan A?

Yes Pricilla, WW when i aks WW anything about her personal life i get a reply like this for example yesterday i asked " did you go up to your new apartment and check it out when you were at your mom's{its upstairs at her parents house}" her reply " Dont worry about what i do....but yez"
well in contrast WW calls me or text me and asks where i am or what im doing almost daily.

I will say I feel MB is right. In that I likley need to stay faithful until her relashionship dies the natural death.

she has said she was prepared to stay with me the rest of her life until i went crazy meaning " exposeure and VR and accusing her of the affair"

NO Plan A is over. i was on DR Harley show last Wednesday. He's agree im in a forced Plan B as she did a restraint order but used my address for one week . im told today she goes into ammened it to her mothers address where she has an upstairs appartment.

then i will go dark. change the locks have my house cleaned completly and matain contact for our child only. she states she wishes to use her writ of marrige to suggest an attempt to drop her false charges i will have to oblige and make sure she does not get pissed before that time.

I see that he has said you should be in Plan B. That means that you can NOT have anymore exchanges with her like the one you had above.

He also talked a bit about your anger, and what a problem it is:


So, what are you doing about that?

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of clintonior's show

I went to the VA yesterday. we disscussed my mabye getting on anti depressants. however, dr seems to suggest i have a court case and my being on them may not help any judgment also he feels im strictly having a hard time with this situation only. and that they take two weeks before they really work. he addressed my not sleeping more than 2-3 hours and gave me a sleep aid. in hopes that real rest could improve my irratability.
see she also did not change the address on the restraint yet stating some bs about 51 A filed by the police for neglect during the alleged incident. WW stated she was told to leave it in place till DCF makes a finding. i told my CD lawyer and he called BS as they are unrelated incidents he also called the courthouse and found they had no record of her being in to make a change to any address. 15 more days is what she said. our whole relashionship 2 weeks is how she procrastinates almost everting she has done, i know getting back into my house may be a bigger issue now. WW stated to the officer who informend her she could stay in the home. WW said on no im moving out i need a week to do so that is her time line.

Prisca, yesterday you asked please answer why WW always asks what im doing. wouldnt mind your response to that aswell as todays reply.

See a different doctor.

I asked if you were going to do Plan A. But Dr. Harley says you are forced into a Plan B, so that is the route you should go.

If you are going to Plan B, don't worry about why she asks about what you are doing. Start preparing for Plan B and to cut her out of your life.

I had a choice. The DR would have given them to me. I elected to go the try and get real sleep ( which i did last nite). I'm getting over the inital shock of the affair and she is heavy into the fog. My key logger has me into her FB now which I can clearly see they are having sexual conversations. and have been ***EDIT*** WW grandparents called me today. i was hesitant but told them about her affair. she asked me if i would stay with my WW if she stopped i said ofcourse i want nothing more than that. she has my WW wrapped so mabye she'll bust her out IDK they are coming up fo x mas.

Be careful. What will look worse at the court case is if you can't control yourself because of anxiety/depression.

Please answer and tell us what you are doing about your anger.

I'm currently living at my mothers house. i tenatively will be back in my home possibly tomorrow if im not being lied to again. then i will clean and straighten up my home. i still have my daughter on certian days. and then i will go dark for plan B. but its not gone well at all latley i will say. also the sleep aid has allowed me to sleep thru the night twice. I am also speaking to friends and doing things for my enjoymnet to some extent.
I will say text WW usually dosent go well and anger does seem to be both of our issues. I actually told her to calm as soon as im back in the home and she is in her new place i promise her an overdue cool down period.

Bump. WW making random abusive text. new thing. I absolutey try not to respond WW works her comments in between conversations about our D4.
WW moved out then had an incident between OM father and brother was the victim. so police were called to that residence. sunday WW text me she may be staying in my house till spring till she can afford her own place. i worry she pays nothing towards the home as its only in my name and always has been aswell as i have a pre neptuial aggrement. propane in my name(address) electric ect.
to many things i will need a laywer for at this point.

Clinton,

You are supposed to be in Plan B.
In Plan B,she cannot call or text you.
Have you read about Plan B in Surviving an Affair?

You should have no communication with her until she has ended her affair and is willing to never see or speak to the OM again.

well yes I have Read Plan B. states I may communicate about visitation with child D4, I'd asssume property, as i currently was told WW would only be there a week to move out when WW set up the RO in court. is what she told Judge. so i have a bag of clothes. I have snowmobiles i need to get use of. aswell as WW was supposed to move out and i back into the home. home is out of propane and its winter... I need to have WW arange for me to get some prpoerty of mine with police there ect. i would call it conversation. i get text from WW like ignoring me again ect. as i do not reply to WW. If WW filed i will likley open a thread in the Divorce forum. I am retaining a laywer who does both criminal and divorce so he knows the whole story and ideally i wont skip any important details if i need to proceed. curently she has no real right to my home. as i built it years before WW & I got married. its only in my name and i have a pre nup. i need to file in probate to superceed WW RO and remove her. But its touchy WW has stated she would use her marrige privalge to drop charges. its purely of her own free will. therfore i am complient for now. The state has bassically nudered me at this point. so a strong plan B will happen fully when i get past the first hurdle (marrige privalege or VA action to drop whole this.

No, Plan B states that you do not communicate with her at all. An intermediary handles all contact, and passes on to you only the facts that are really necessary. All the drama is filtered out. You have no direct contact with your WS, and they have no way of getting to you without going through the intermediary.

Plan B is *NO* contact. Zero. Nada. None. Any essential information should be screened through your intermediary.

oh. well I cant ive been advised by my laywer to be complacinet not upset WW until charges are dismissed. I also to not speak to WW about anything other than children D$ or Property at this point. I ignore/don't respond to most of what WW says half of it is unreasonable accusations based soley on WW imagination.

Mabye I'm on plan C.(lawyer advise...I'm not focused on relashionship more focused on charges and carrer issues currently)

But once I file in probate the house and she cant go there. I will go dark and give myself the recovery I know I need.

Why can't you use an IM to contact with your WW?

IM Training School
Parallel Parenting in Plan B

oh she is pregnant. but I tried for 5 years WW issue. WW using a fake pregnacy (possible) (3rd time) to hold this POSOM together WW still think OM sees other women aswell.

ok. so here is an update after 3 months.. i probably wont be able to capyure all the happened..
1 i got my house back. i filed a motion to remove my address from WW RO as my home was abandon with 5 feet of snow in the driveway and propane could not be delived..WW took this as a time to congratulate me on my sucess..(odd)this was three weeks ago,
2 WW has stated she wants counseling and try to reconcile..
3 WW tells me she is not "with" OM..
4 picked my daughter up yesterday at a mall 5 mins from OM house. WW lives hour away but it is the mall WW & I frequented.. and D4 said OM was inside and was with her all day..WW picked D4 up and then called me stating i have to stop asking D4 if OM was with mommy. and WW then told me she was not with OM but with a best friend. D4 said otherwise D$ also said she had no lunch but then said she did later and called them snacks. this has been very tough on her im sure.

situation is I took my Vows and meant them I feel i could reconcile still. but I'm still being lied to..also after i talked with her i recived a random text from OM saying " have a great night" which tells me WW contacted OM after talking with me.. this also leads me to draw a conclusion that OM hasnt been into WW and when i get involved he pays attention to her as if the Affair is what drives the contact...?? not sure.. anyways I'm being lied to.. Ive comne to the conclusion if i do divorce i want an aggreed petetion for separation and 50/50 JPL custody of D4.. any advise as i feel a false reconcile is revealing itself. I said to WW we wont fix us with out counseling as im convinced she is using pathalogical lying as a psciopathic manipulative tool. and narsacistic as she took her affair and made me out to be an abuser which was a false accusation.

Are you actually thinking she's done with OM?

nope.. WW Said she isn't "with" OM the only conclusion I draw is it may not exclusive to her perhaps.( I use the term are you still with the OM or you r are still with OM.. ect..). WW still seems to address him as a great friend who came to her in a time of need ect.... which is BS to me as WW let a one year marriage fall on its face ect. one issue I'm dealing with is obviously if I still love WW.Trust is gone WW still lies constanly. I have had to much time to think thru this at this point. I'd assume this would be a common issue.. curently anytime I talk to WW about D4 she asks who I'm with.. this has remained the same since Nov separation.. WW seems to want to validate my faithfulness thru this.

Dont diagnose your wife. Youre not a psychologist and she is just another cheating woman. Nothing exceptional about her.

You aren't regular in posting so its hard to advise you.
But at this point you should be in Plan A and trying to make love bank deposits. Are you doing that?

ok I will not diagnose her. just the shoe fit. continuing on. I had posted if you read up an few. i recived no feed back when i was looking for some insight. either way I continue to see my D4 every friday after work till sunday am.. I contact WW and call my D4 during the week. I feel i make suttle love deposits. WW came in the house last weekend plopped down on the couch explaing how my D4 was sick. then proceeded to call her work and try to get out of working stating she had to stay home with our sick daughter who then stayed with me. but during that unessasary lie telling i was not at all argumentative and caring. later on that sunday nite i had aranged to have my daughter for st patricks day dinner. and WW asked me to meet her at pet smart to pick up my daughter. WW got a new Husky puppy she showed me that morning when i arrived WW was outside with D4. no puppy..I asked D4 who was inside with the Puppy. D4 was hesitant but told me OM i asked no are you sure not mommies best friend female name.. D$ said uh uhh.. ok so she is inside with OM.. who WW claims she is not "with".. then D4 gets picked up dinner was fun. and i get a text. " i was not With OM" ok. well she goes onto say she dosent like being accused ect, i said i did not mention anything to you nor accuse you then she told me she was with her bFF female name. which D4 said she was not ect..i made no big issue of it nor did i really care at this point. so.. mabye that brings it into focus a bit??

Clinton,

You were advised to Plan B months ago.
That is what you should be doing.

Did you complete an anger management course?

I find your post very muddled. How are you doing generally? Eating and sleeping OK? Have you accessed anti depressants to help? Most people need them.

Why does any of this surprise you?
Of course she is a liar, all adulterers lie, and lie constantly.
She is still in an active affair(s), so her fog is still thick.
People that know what they are doing is wrong, will lie to everyone repeatedly.

If you are going for divorce, why are taking the compromise approach. Your attorney sounds weak, and doesnt want to do anything hard or controversial.

I would advise Plan B, you continue to have contact and that will drive you crazy.

I'm eating again I have gained 10 lbs back. I have got past most of the charges she filed. and am going to counseling thru a VA program. its been helpful to discuss just current stuff. WW falsley accused me but obviouly the affair made me mad yes so i have been muttling thru that. I am primarily in plan B. I got my house back. its just me. im catching up on Bills. and i pick up D4 on fridays. WW and I are filing jointly and splitting it 50/50 hasnt happened yet. tax man told me if i file married single i may likley owe and would just lose money which just needs to go to heating the house while no one lived in it ect.

You will get through this. At least your back in the house. One step at a time.

nebDane: my attorney is my defense attorney and also dose diviorce law. he has been good thru the criminal charges but He has only listened to me and I explained the plan A and B ideals to him. nothing more on the divorce at this point. things have calmed quite a bit since i got the house back. we dont speak. except for D4 and finances. other than the recent chat stating she is not "with" OM. yet see was in pet smart with OM last sunday or so. yes Lies + Lies..ect. its ongoing. I question the viability of reconcile at this point.

WW is coming around more. latley WW and I have had a few conversations as to getting back together. WW invited me to go see her aunt and uncle next weekend. WW has explained that her and OM had had sex but that she could count then on one hand. I feel there isn't total transparency with that current state of their relashionship. I'm told by WW several times she is not "with" OM or anyone else. I'm Leary to a false reconcille. last night WW picked up daughter after working a night shift. i gave her some dinner i had made and said good by WW motioned for a hug and i gave her one. this would be first contact in a long while between WW and I.

Your wife is just speaking nonsense. Normal wayward lies.
Just continue plan A

I have similar feeling to the current situation, as in many things still dont add up. More importantly what would I look for in an honest reconcille attemt? As well as when if at all should recovey counseling come into play?

Reconciliation cant happen until her affair dies a natural death.

Yep, the affair has to die and your wife has to agree to the extraordinary precautions and plan of recovery outlined in Surviving an Affair.

Clintonior,
I just read your thread, and I agree it is unclear where you are, where you want to be. Have you put together an overall plan and posted it here so you can provide progress updates and get feedback (encouragement or 2x4's)? Having a plan and measuring your progress will help you to stay on target and moving.

Plan:
1) Plan B until WW agrees to EPs (plan B is all or nothing, noted on 4/2 above you are "primarily in plan B")
2) Eating plan
3) exercise plan
4) medical care and prescription plan
5) renew hobbies
6) practice/learn skills you will use if you go back to plan A

Stuff like that, let's go! Move!

Clinton,

The best advice I can give you is to be listening to Marriage Builders Radio every single day so you can learn what will need to be done in recovery. You will learn what to look for: willingness to follow the plan Dr. Harley lays out.