Hello,
My wife of 9 years told me last week that she was done, no longer loved me. But, since we have 3 young children, she doesn't want to divorce right away. She wants us to continue living together, as parenting partners. I don't know how long she thinks we'll live like that, but wants to take it a year at a time for as long as we can. I refuse to accept that it's over, and begged for her to reconsider. She doesn't want to hear about it. In the end, I saw the positive aspect of our "parenting partnership", that being a chance for me to get her to love me again.

But there are a few problems.

First, she's not interested in working on our relationship. She has been unhappy in our marriage for a very long time, now telling me that it has been 8 years, but got worst over the last 3 years. Secondly, she has rekindled a friendship with an old boyfriend just at the same time that she made up her mind to finally call it quits. She claims its just a friendship and that she needed someone to talk to. I'm quite afraid that its more than that. She hasn't seen him in over 5 years, doubt she's talked to him since then, at least that's what she tells me. I'm inclined to believe her. He's always been in love with her, and stayed friends with her family well beyond the end of their relationship. Luckily, for the moment, we live abroad so he's 6000km away. However, this summer we are moving back home and he'll only be about 500km, and rather close to her family (a convenient ride when she visits them). I'm not sure if her decision to transition our marriage to a "parenting partnership" happened before or after contacting him, so I can't say that he's to blame. But they established contact in the same week, initiated by her. So he's a factor, in my mind. We had a talk about him, and she swears that there is nothing, he's just a friend she can talk to. She doesn't have any other close friends around here and she doesn't want to talk about it with her family.

After our first talks about her decision, I left it alone for a week. I didn't want to fight or meltdown. And I hoped that she would have reconsidered and accepted that perhaps we could work on our marriage. Our talk today didn't go well. She was incredulous that was still hoping to get her to love me again. That's when I found out she's been unhappy for close to 8 years, rather than last 3 years. Now I don't know how what to do. I don't want to give up, but clearly she doesn't want to try. She's now at peace with her decision and starting to be happy again. She doesn't put the blame all on me, although I'm the prime offender, that it's just the way she feels and that can't be changed.

Background. There have been no major issues or red flags in our relationship. No infidelity, no abuse, no mental health issues, no addictions, etc. I'm a loving father, great relationship with the kids. The major issue is that I'm not a very emotional person, and I haven't been demonstrative enough of my love for her. I never really reached out to hold her hand, never bought her flowers for no reason, never gave her a hug out of the blue and told her I loved her, etc. In her words, I wasn't a good husband... to her. I wasn't a mean person. But sometimes my temper was short-- no yelling, just sarcasm or snapping. I usually apologized soon after. Never raised a finger. I worry about money, but we've always been in debt and always spent like drunk sailors (I'm a sailor, allowed to say that). We've had talks before, where she expressed how she wanted me to be more loving, and I've promised to do better. I've never quite made up to my promises.

What should I do? Is there no hope? Is she right to say that she's stuck around long enough, there's no point in giving me another chance? Is she refusing to work on our relationship because she's found a life-line with an old boyfriend? Am I a jerk for denying her an exit from an unhappy marriage?

Thanks for all your help!

Mac

How has she rekindled the friendship if they don't talk?

This sounds like at least an emotional affair and you need to get snooping and find out what is happening here. If she's in love with him, she's of course going to be disinterested in your marriage and you. You probably feel crushed, but her words about not being happy or in love with you for all of these years may not be accurate. She may be rewriting your history together in her mind since she has fallen for this other man. It is very, very common for a cheating spouse to say these sorts of things.

You need to get to the bottom of what is happening between them, and do so discreetly! If they have an inappropriate relationship, once she figures out you are onto them (e.g. because you are asking her about it or making it obvious that you are watching her) she will take it underground and make it very difficult for you to take the sort of action you must take to save your marriage.

So instead, snoop, find out if your suspicions are true, and come back here with what you find and tell us what it was before you say anything to her about it. We can advise you on what to do from there.

Welcome to MB, Mac. Sorry for the reason you find yourself here.

Your wife is having an affair with this guy, and that's the reason your marriage is in a crisis right now. An affair doesn't have to be physical to be a danger to your marriage. As a matter of fact, an emotional affair (EA) is just as dangerous to your marriage and probably even more so.

She has apparently had some complaints about you that you brushed off. Most women have affection and conversation as their top two ENs. You have neglected to fulfill these needs for her and your wife allowed this OM to meet those two very important needs for her. Your wife probably won't allow you to meet these needs if she's in love with another man, but you should still be doing small things that she will allow. Go out on dates and make them enjoyable. No relationship talk. Don't beg or plead.

Also, any anger or disrespect are love busters and will cause massive love bank withdrawals, no matter how "small." Even if you were a wonderful dad and great husband, angry outbursts, biting comments, sarcasm and the like will kill any woman's love. The fact that you never lifted a finger against her is small consolation. You will need to eliminate these love busters immediately.

That you didn't meet her ENs and committed love busters may well be part of the conditions of your wife's romantic attraction to OM, but the decision to engage in an affair is completely hers. So don't blame yourself for that. Every marriage needs extraordinary precaution to protect the relationship from affairs. Also, all waywards rewrite marital history, so try hard to ignore this kind of talk.

Meanwhile, don't ask about this guy anymore. You already know he's a danger to your marriage. Snoop quietly, install a keylogger and get the solid indisputable evidence that your wife is having a romantic relationship with this guy, putting it in a safe place, then expose the affair to your friends and family and children. Exposure is extremely important, crucial even, and will make your wife very angry, but exposure is the first step in breaking up an affair.

Exposure is not to punish the spouse; it's so the betrayed spouse can ask for support during a very painful time. It also shines the light of day on a poor decision.

Read up on Exposure Here

@axslinger85 - they were friends on Facebook, she got his new email address that way. I saw some FB messages that alerted me and I confronted her about it. She agreed that it wasn't appropriate and that he was getting the wrong impression. I'll see about snooping.

Thanks LongWay.

I'll need more proof that her friendship is more than just that before I expose. I wouldn't expose her to the world anyways, I don't agree with that. It's between her and me.
I understand the need to tend to her EN and avoid love busters. For the love busters, I've been doing quite well in recent months. But for EN, it'll be hard. She won't go on "dates" with me (trusts no one to babysit kids), won't snuggle with me, won't let me touch her in any way. I brought her flowers last week and that led to an argument, where she reaffirmed that it was over and I had to live with that decision.
What do I do? Be patient, kind and caring, remain good friends and hope that one day she'll come to her senses? I can do all that for a long time, prove to her that I can be the husband she needs and wants. But I want to know if it's a hopeless mission, or if I should be more direct. Right now, the direct approach has failed. Hard.
Thanks,
Mac

Hi Mac, welcome to Marriage Builders. I am sorry for the reasons that have brought you here. You don't agree with exposure, but do you agree with saving your marriage?

We understand if you choose to let your marriage go, but just be aware that we can't help you if you choose to hide the affair for your wife. The reason is because affairs thrive on secrecy, so if you help her hide it, you only serve to enable it. And enablers don't make it because nothing we tell you to do can overcome your enabling. It would be like if your wife was a crack head and you drove her to the crack house and helped pay for her crack experience. That is what you would be doing if you help her hide the affair.

Dr. Bill Harley is a clinical psychologist and author of Surviving an Affair. He has specialized in saving marriages from affairs for 40 years. Those of here in recovered marriages attribute that to exposure. Dr. Harley calls exposure the most critical first step:




So, if you are interested in saving your marriage, this is what you have to do. NOTHING we tell you to do will be of effect unless you expose the affair and run off the OM. All the need meeting and love buster avoiding will be for naught. You will be spinning your wheels while asking volunteers here to help you push a car up the hill with the parking brake ON. You want to make it? Then expose the affair and take the parking brake OFF.

I would also add that the whole reason for the problems in your marriage is your wife's affair. She is rewriting history about how "horrible" the marriage is to throw you off balance so you won't look too hard at her affair. Her goal is to keep you around to take out the trash and take care of the kids while she explores her affair and the possibilities of replacing you with the OM.

All waywards attempt to influence their betrayed spouses to be their "friend" so a) they can pursue their affairs in peace and b) so you won't be upset while she draws away from you.

The affair is destroying your marriage and your children's family and she wants you to be the nice guy ["friend"] and don't interfere with her plan.

Your plan of not exposing is a very complacent approach and that approach reflects a lack of caring. If you want to show you truly care, you should fight for your marriage.

Do you understand she is planning to replace you as husband and father of your children? Are you fine with this guy taking care of them - except for every other weekend?

You're going to have to take a stand here. It sounds like you think you can simply be nice and she'll change? No, no, no.

Is this OM married?

This is why you need to quietly snoop and find out what's going on. In marriage,the only privacy is in the toilet. Otherwise, our lives should be an open book. You need to get solid evidence quickly and quietly.


Exposure is highly recommended by Dr. Harley, and he has years and years of experience in the field of infidelity. Exposure is critical in the busting up of an affair. It's not done with anger or recriminations or with the idea that it's great "revenge." Lots of affairs break up right away upon exposure. Once you have the evidence, don't keep the dirty little secret. Let your family, friends,and children know so they can encourage her to end the EN.


Good! Eliminating love busters for good is extremely important for the recovery of the marriage.


She's acting this way because she's in love with another man. Don't try to touch her for now, if that annoys her. Show her you care in other ways.


Be patient, be kind and caring and friendly but hope in itself will get you nowhere. MB is about having and instituting a PLAN that has the best chance of ending the affair and recovering your marriage. It's not hopeless! But you will need to follow the plan carefully. [

]
I would find out as much as you can about this man. Is he married? Where does he live? What is his marital status? Does he have a Facebook page? If he has a Facebook page, I would go to his page and copy all his contacts into a text doc for safekeeping.

Don't ask your wife anything about him, just quietly find this out on your own.

You have a small window of opportunity to kill this affair off before the affair goes too far. The longer you wait to bust it up, the more entrenched it becomes and the more solidified the plan to replace you.

Thanks all. I'll get snooping.

To answer Brainhurts' question, OM is a married family man.
Of course I care-- I don't want my family destroyed, I don't want my kids to meet a second dad and I don't want to visit them every other weekend. I'm extremely mad, frustrated and hurt. Everything she says is grounded in truth, whether it's exaggerated to rewrite our history, I can't say. She doesn't deny contacting OM, but claims he's a friend and she needs one right now. But still wants her privacy. I don't think she's only keeping me for the trash or money. It would be simpler for her to simply go our separate ways once we return home (reminder: currently abroad until summer). She's doing it for the kids-- which is something I can build on. I think.

You say you are a sailor. Does that mean you are away from home for periods of time, of overnight?
If so, that usually has a bad influence on marriages and you may want to overtink your career options.

If your behaviour had really been bad enough to END the marriage to her kids dad - she wouldn't want to be friends.

A desire to be friends is a very high indicator of an affair. That and the dreaded 'I love you but not in love with you'.

If her OM was single, she'd be getting rid of you. Since he's married, he's made it clear he 'won't leave his kids' (married men like to stay with their wives and keep the side action going as long as possible).

Exposure would ruin the fantasy for her - she believes they will be together when the kids are grown - a fantasy which could last years. Exposure to his wife is likely to result in your wife being dumped.

It's critical that both your families know because you simply can't recover if she is allowed to remain in the fantasy mind set. She is supposed to feel ashamed of this - the old her would be.

Her family could help - particularly as he lives so close.

Without exposure Dr H has known the APs to reunite 20 years later after an apparant recovery. It's a high flown addictive fantasy, they believe they are soul mates. With exposure, they see it for the shameful episode it really is.

Many former waywards on this forum will tell you they were saved by exposure.

An affair is not a happy place. Your wife is very depressed and desperate. She us being used as a side dish.

She needs EVERYONE'S help.

Yes, you can build on it if you kill the affair. If not, then nothing you do will be of effect because you are competing with a fantasy. I predict you can easily save your marriage if you snoop, get the evidence, and expose the affair. The OM is not going to risk his marriage for a little side fun. But the more entrenched the affair becomes, the more likely you will be replaced with the OM. This is why you need to act fast.

Mac, as someone who has been in your place, exposure is the ONLY thing that ended my husband's affair. She is speaking lines from the Wayward Spouse handbook. The affair NEEDS to be brought to light, to everyone, including that d-bag's poor wife.

I have a key logger on our computer, but can't find anything. She has deleted everything from her email account, and I don't have evidence of another account. Perhaps time with key logger will tell if she has another one. She relies on her smartphone, which she keeps very close at hand. I wouldn't be able to install anything on it, unless I can do it remotely.

She's talked to her family about our situation, and although they are sad for her, they support her. Of course, I don't know what (or if) she said about the other guy. I doubt she said anything.
The other guy's marriage isn't necessarily a happy one. But same situation in reverse; he'd like a divorce, but she doesn't. He knows that as a man, he's unlikely to have his kids full time and he doesn't want to deal with the every other weekend bit. Spouting off to his wife will expose, but may give him the push he needs to separate. Exposing the "affair" to her family won't go far either. They know him and like him; after my wife's relationship with him, he remained friends with the family for years. He'd be walking back in as a familiar face that makes their daughter happy. I'm the unhappy making guy. As for the kids. Her sister has already divorced her husband of 10 years and she's as happy as ever, with a new boyfriend (also happens to be an old boyfriend) who's great with the kids. So, in her family's view, this isn't a bad thing. Just another fork in the road.
I'm doing my best to snoop. She mainly uses Facebook messenger and email. No phone calls or texts. Again, they're separated by an ocean, so no physical contact.

Yes, I'm a sailor, but I've been in HQ for years, since the kids have arrived. I'm home, frequent absences isn't an issue.

If it is an iPhone, you can install spyware remotely. Go to the thread stickied at the top of this forum "Start here first." There is a link for spyware.


In other words, she lied to them about the real problem so she can set the stage to replace you. She lied to them because she knows they won't support her affair.


Obviously, your wife knows something you don't or she wouldn't be hiding her affair. Why hide it if they love adultery and love the OM so much? She would have no reason to spin the story. [with you starring as the villain, of course] What exposure will do is ruin the affair and most likely gain you some allies. We have had many parents who actually busted up the affair. I seriously doubt the OM will leave his family for your wife, so exposure will run him off. At this point, he is unlikely to leave his wife and children to take on YOURS.

I seriously doubt your in-laws support and advocate adultery and would have the same feelings for the OM if they knew his role in the destruction of your marriage and their grandchildren's family. Maybe they are those type of people, but I predict they would not support the OM if they knew he was attempting to wreck your family.

Exposure is your only chance at saving this. If you choose to enable the affair, she likely will leave you for the OM. Affairs thrive on secrecy, so if you become an accessory to the crime, there is nothing we can do for you.

I understand exposure sounds scary to you and you imagine all sorts of bad outcomes, but we have been through this a thousand times and know it is your best chance. There are no guarantees, but you are guaranteed to lose your wife to this OM if you sit there and allow him to replace you. That is reckless and irresponsible. Complacence reflects a lack of caring that won't be soon forgotten.

Few marriages are "happy" when one spouse is having an affair. He is certainly neglecting his wife and children to pursue his affair with your wife.

A bad marriage is something to be turned around, not an excuse to have an affair. Having an affair never helps marriages, after all. "Bad marriage" is a classic excuse to have an affair so the betrayed spouse can be blamed. It is a PLOY to keep the BS off balance and confused.

I am curious, would you take this same complacent approach if a terrorist was breaking into your home assaulting your wife and children? Because that is what is happening and you are doing nothing to stop it. Like I said, complacence reflects a lack of caring.

of course his marriage is unhappy when he is talking to his mistress!

All affairs are based on that kind of blather. Each one says only what the other one wants to hear.

You understand me much better than my real partner... We have no troubles here in our bubble...

It would be pathetically easy to bust this up.

You need to get the info off her smartphone. Do whatever you have to. Drop a chair on it and buy her a new one with spyware preinstalled.

X2. even though she's caused this, a WW will judge a man for his complacency. We've seen men drop kick the A and move mountains to win their wives back. The other kind moves into the spare room, offers to arrange the flowers and tries not to annoy her or the lover by breathing too much.

Three guesses which guy always wins.

I'll move mountains. Let's be honest, I have considered some fairly evil outcomes for this jerk off. Thankfully, we're currently on different continents, so I can't get in trouble.
All of this has been very recent, a week and a half, two max. I doubt his wife is aware of anything regarding mine. They may be in their little bubble, but it's long distance at this point. We're still in the emotional affair at best.
But everything else that you guys have been saying makes sense. I'm afraid.
Thank you all for your input so far.

Cheers,
Mac

Mac, if you will get the evidence of the affair, we will help you use it in a strategic, intelligent, controlled manner that will most likely result in the death of the affair. The affairees will be enraged, but you will come out looking like a hero who is only protecting his marriage and his children. [go read my exposure thread to get an idea of how we do this]

You will be effectively putting the OM in his place in a way that will be above board and blameless. We are not into the loose cannon approach, but use a very strategic approach that often gains you support while killing the affair. OM are yellow bellied cowards who typically run at the first sign of trouble. But that only holds true in the early stages of an affair. The longer this goes on, the more entrenched and the harder it is to bust up. I believe you are at an ideal place to bust it up.

Our goal is to save your marriage, not kill it. Most of us have saved our own marriages using these tactics.

Thanks MelodyLane. I've started working on it...nothing to report yet.

As long as you follow the plans I agree with Melody Lane you're in an excellent position to blow up this house of cards.

Her idea of continuing to live with you tells me he is telling her not to expect any commitment from him in the near future

This is common. Everyone in an affair tastes the giddy crack pipe high of polygamy (One person provides for you/looks after the kids leaving a second romantic partner free entirely for fun) but men are built to enjoy polygamy more than women. The male afairee is usually very happy with getting his cake and eating it too.

This would be easy to bust up if you go about it strategically.

And can you ask your doctor for some ADs (antidepressants) while you're going through this? This will help even your moods out why you are snooping and gathering evidence.

How do you know this? Presumably this intimate information came directly from your wife, and indirectly from her OM.

NOTE: People in affairs lie. Their very relationship is based on deceit, so there are NO LINES in the sand when it comes to what they will lie about. From now on, do not believe a word that comes out of your wife's mouth, you cannot trust it.

It is very likely that this is what the OM told your WW. It is also very likely that it is a lie. Do you think he is going to tell her "yes, my wife is great, we have an awesome marriage! I just like cake, lots and lots of cake!" No. He is going to tell her, "the only reason I am contemplating cheating (which, I've NEVER done before mind you), is because *you're so special* and my wife is mean to me and my marriage is hell on earth." He told her this lie to engage her, to make her feel special and feel like she might have a chance.

MAC, unwritten is exactly right. When people have affairs, they typically demonize their spouses and manufacture grievances. It is very likely she is telling him that you abuse her. The "story" to your family will be that "she has been unhappy for years and years." The idea is to set the stage to replace you with the OM by garnering sympathy.

I agree.

Exposing to the OMW was the killer of my wife's affair... very powerful indeed.

Alright. I have a key logger installed on computer. So I now have her email and FB password. Conveniently, everything from or to him was deleted on email. I did a "recover deleted emails" and got a couple emails. They are being careful since the emails didn't have long chains. Nothing more than friendly chit chat, but as two former lovers that are rekindling. In other words, no smoking gun, but their conversation is now fairly familiar for two people who haven't talked in 5 years and started again two weeks ago. They have been sending messages by Facebook and all that I have is him sending her pictures of him with her family from back in the day, them when they dated about 18 years ago, pictures of her, etc. She's asking him for more of those pictures. Saying she loves how big his hand is next to her head, and him replying for her not to get too excited because "the myth isn't true". Then she sent him pictures of herself she just took tonight in the bathroom (fully dressed). In between all that, it's chit chat about what she was doing today, what she's cooking dinner. Saturday night we had another talked and I mentioned him, saying that I'm offended that she's talking to him and she denied there was anything. Told me that my attitude towards him is why she changed her passwords, and that she was entitled to her privacy. I know, tell-tale clues. I backed off. So in today's exchange she told him not to worry about me, that my little outburst discussion (I was a bit emotional) was only me grasping at straws and that I knew that our problems had nothing to do with him. They say "miss you" and "miss u more". I'm now sickened. It's still early in their courtship, but it's clearly that.

What do I do now? I don't have much, I've copied that Facebook message chain. The other emails didn't have much and could go either way (friends being friends or more). Should I contact his wife and ask that she monitor his stuff? Is it too early, she may blow the whole thing up without much evidence and send them underground. Right now, my wife has no idea I can see all of that. I don't want to expose too early, but don't want to let them get too cosy. Again, for those joining in... we're currently overseas, so there won't be able to meet in person until we return home in the summer.

Thanks all again. Yes anti-depressants would be great. That knot in my stomach is really getting tiresome and I doubt I'll fall asleep tonight.

This is clearly an affair. My husband's started the same way as well-skirting the line of decency for a while, but nothing totally over the line until later. The veterans on this site will tell you what to do, but honestly, I would expose. This is too much and too familiar for a married woman. The miss you's and hand comments alone are enough.

My husband was simply saying, "you're a great girl" and said it was nothing and then jumped into bed with her a few weeks later. You know flirting when you see it. This is flirting.

By the way, married people aren't "entitled to privacy." Everything she does affects you and she needs to be totally transparent in a marriage. My brother once told me that he stopped talking to a classmate completely (when he was getting a phd) after one exchange that my sister in-law witnessed when the woman was dropping off papers at their house. My sis in-law basically said, "I didn't like the way she talked to you, please don't be friends with her." And he dropped our of the study group that she was in and never talked to her again. That's how you handle things when your spouse is uncomfortable with an OS friend.

Just chill until you have evidence of an affair. Stop bringing it up. Don't discuss it anymore.

See if you can get some spyware on her phone too.

I completely agree with you PigletWiglet.

MelodyLane- I looked at the phone spy recommended in your exposure site (do you get kick backs?). I was about to install it, but at one point it said that it would send an email to the AppleID email (for her phone), which freaked me out. I thought it could be done without target's knowledge (I have her AppleID and password). I could do when I know she's sleeping and phone off, then hack into her email and delete that email. But I need to make sure she won't get anything else or see any type of alert or display. It seemed clear that it would run in secret...

Very hard to act cool here. I couldn't sleep and got up, checked Facebook and low and behold, she's on Facebook too and not sleeping (well beyond midnight). So now I'm sitting at the computer on her Facebook account reading their chat live. They're skirting the line of decency-- she's good at bringing it back, but he likes to steer the convo back to [censored] and boobs. Every once in a while I copy the transcript and save to my laptop. They're planning to meet for lunch or a drink this summer when she visits her parents (without me since I'll be at my new job). It's clear that she's setting the stage, but she's not getting in deep. As she puts it, she's trying to get reacquainted with him, asking about his job, etc. Every once in a while I just want to run into the room and just yell at her!! In case you didn't get it, we don't sleep in the same room anymore. Doesn't seem like she heard me get up, else I think she would have mentioned it to loverboy, or perhaps would have been freaked out to have me near computer. Apart from planning a meeting in late July, talking about fake boobs (his wife's friends) and her great butt (my wife's), it's been a typical teenage fantasy conversation. It's sickening.

I doubt they'll get any more serious than that stage for a long while. I can monitor for some more time to see if they plan anything else, etc. I know my wife, she won't send him any "nude pics" over the internet, she's not a dirty talker or phone/internet sex kinda girl. So not much will happen until they meet in July. As you've all said before, until then they will just get more reacquainted in their problem-free bubble.

So what do you say, how much longer should I let them chat? Knowing that as soon as I expose, my source runs dry. Unless they're really dumb.

Mac, if you have her Apple ID and password, just use Wondershare Dr. Fone. There won't be any emails sent.

No, I do not get a kickback. I was trying to be helpful. But I did take valuable time from my real job to post to you. My time here is entirely voluntary.

MelodyLane-- I'm sorry, it was a joke, I meant no offence at all. I should have added a smiley face for context.

So their conversation ended, a lot of memory lane stuff. But they ended with "Love you". I'm gutted.

thanks for the clarification!

Sorry you had to read that, but keep doing what you are doing and copying the conversations. In the meantime, go to the OM's Facebook page and copy and paste all his Facebook contacts while you can. Paste them into a text doc for safekeeping. Once things get intense we will help you strategically blow up this affair.

I understand the need to expose and blow it all up. But in exposing my wife on Facebook to all of our friends and colleagues, I would find it very hard to look at them in the face if and when all this sorts itself out. Even if I couldn't save my marriage, I'd have a hard time. I know that it would show everyone that I tried all that I could, but at the same time it's a lot of laundry to air. Can't exposure be restricted to his family, her family? I know it may seem like half measures, but exposing to their/our families would have sufficient effect to freak them both out. At this point, either it will break it off or I'm guessing resolved them to official leave their spouses and give it a try. After I said their convo was done, they started up again. They're deep in lovey-dovey, I'm glad you opened the door with that or that comment, we're something special you and I. It's clear that he's loved her since they dated (close to 18 years ago) and I'm getting the impression she never stopped having feelings for him. If that's the case, am I done? If she truly has had feelings for him for so long (and without rewriting history), could it be true that she no longer loves me, loves him and that's that? Nearly 2am and I'm not about to fall asleep. Long day ahead for me.

Mac, you need to understand this is fantasy. Would you lure a long-lost love by talking about her boobs? Is that how you got your wife to go on a first date? No, its being used for cheap thrills. Its an insult. Once you get how this is a silly fantasy and bring it to REALITY, you can fight it.

Facebook exposure should be done to the OM's contacts, not your wife's. The exposure to your wife's side should be close family and friends, most of which will be via phone call.

But I think the basic issue is that you view exposure as a bad thing when it is a good thing. Exposure is the most therapeutic thing you can do for your wife and the OM. So, I am unclear why you would want to RESTRICT a much needed therapy? It doesn't help you, your kids or your wife. The greatest danger is doing a trickle, half way exposure, because it does not kill the affair, only emboldens the affairees. This is why you need to be thorough.


With the OM, you will want to go farther than that because you have no idea who will be influential with him. With him, for example, you will want to expose to his parents, family members and married friends.


And this is what you don't know because you don't have experience at this. I think your approach comes from a wrong headed belief that exposure is a bad thing. It is a good thing. You should not restrict your greatest weapon against the affair. It is not strategic and makes no sense.


She truly has feelings for him and may have fallen out of love with you. We already knew that, though. That describes 99% of affairs. That is what we are here to fix. Her relationship with dirtbag has no future.

hopefully you are saving a copy of their chat logs.

It's very much like a crack head. Crack heads LOVE crack! They love that high. But does the high last? No, it doesn't because life cannot exist while on crack. And what happens when you invite a crowd of people into the crackhouse to watch the crack heads get high? It is no fun to get high with every one watching!

Our goal is to remove the crack pipe [the OM] from the life of your wife. Once we do that, we will teach you how to create romantic love in your marriage. A love that this marriage wrecking dirtbag can't touch.

Ask yourself what kind of creep has an affair with a married woman?

Mac,

You wrote, I know my wife, she won't send him any "nude pics" over the internet, she's not a dirty talker or phone/internet sex kinda girl.

When your WW is in an affair you do not know her, recognize that an affair is an addiction. Just as you would not trust a drug addict with family heirlooms, you cannot trust your WW not to engage in phone or internet sex, in fact it is probable.

God Bless
Gamma

I agree with Melody, you do not know what will be sufficient to freak them out. But having been where you are, I cannot fathom that you would ever regret OVER exposing them. I would bet money you would regret under exposing if it doesn't work out the way you think it will.

Since this is all so new to you, it's easy where you are you to feel like her affair makes her a bad person, and will make everyone around you feel like she is a bad person, and thus you both will never be able to overcome the stigma of an affair.

But if you look at the stories on this forum you will see people of all walks of life in all positions in society (even sacred ones, such as clergy!) having affairs. This is because anyone is capable of having an affair if they are not careful. Dr. Harley says this himself often. Not sure if you're a Christian, but the Bible plainly speaks to this:

Matthew 15:19 - For out of the heart come evil thoughts�murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

This is a natural temptation if you place yourself in harm's way!

And don't kid yourself about other people either. Infidelity, abuse, pornography addiction, neglect...any one of these problems have likely affected marriages in the people around you, they affect nearly every marriage at one point or another. Don't think these people you are worried about having to face have perfect marriages with no struggles or problems to overcome.

It's very intimidating, but you need to remember your marriage is already in terrible danger and there's no use pretending that your wife does not desperately need the help of your close friends and family. That's reality.

I'm so sorry you've found yourself here like so many of us have in the past, but worrying about how your friends and family will view you (or your wife) going forward is not a luxury you can afford right now. You've got to focus and hit this thing between the eyes as hard as you possibly can.

This is the sort of situation where at least some of the people around you are going to disagree with your course of action no matter what you do. You can't let that influence your decision.

This is your marriage to fight for. That's what matters here.

It's a critical mistake to make to think you know her. While an addict she bears little resemblance to the person you knew.

If you leave her any friends or supporters, who don't know - the addict will cling to that.

There have been lots of people scared to expose who are now to 'go to' couple for advice. You'll be amazed at how sympathetic people are. You'll be amazed that there are cheats among them! You'll be amazed to discover you aren't some sort of social freak - more than half your targets have experienced this themselves.

But we don't talk about it!

It's critical you find out which friends are supportive, and which have cheat mindsets themselves.

You don't have the luxury to be embarrassed.

As for the 'true love' theory. It's always possible to fall for old flameses. Dr H says that feeling never goes away.

You might discard someone for a very logical reasons and move on - but affairs don't care about logic.

Thanks all.

MelodyLane - I've kept a copy of their chat last night. It's incriminating enough.
After snooping on that chat, I stayed on the couch in the living room and decided to sleep there. She came by, not sure why she came out of the room-- I know I made some noise and perhaps she came to check. I was clearly distraught, but didn't divulge that I had read anything. Just told her I couldn't sleep, she thought I had never gone to bed and had decided to stay on couch all night. So that worked out. We talked a bit, but it was all the same arguments- told her that I couldn't allow our marriage to fail, for us but also for the kids. That we had hit rock bottom, but could rebuild from there and make sure that we're both happy in our lives. Together. For her it was the same, no longer have those feelings, won't come back, etc. But for the kids, she's not leaving. I pressed on, what happens in a year? She told me that she didn't tell her family that she was leaving me, but we were going through something very difficult. Was that a door for possible reconciliation? She's still adamant that it's not and she can't help how she feels. I told her that it hurt me that she's talking to OM, in full privacy mode. She still maintained that its a friendship. Told her from my perspective, it looks like she's keeping me at a distance because of him. She again said that we had crossed a bridge of no return in our marriage before she started talking to him, so he has nothing to do with our situation. She wasn't admitting to falling for him, but not denying it. I didn't want to divulge how much I knew, I may have already cause some damage in my efforts. She truly seemed torn, tearing up. The harm it will do to our kids is truly the key. But she feels what she feels! She doesn't understand why I'm not letting go, why I'm doing this to her; she just wants to be happy and it won't be with me.
It hurts me, I want her to be happy, and maybe she's right that it'll never be with me. And maybe she would be with this guy. Although, I doubt it. It wouldn't really last long, I think. Doesn't seem like he grew up very much, but he does seem to be the type of guy that people like. He'd make her happy for a while. Anyways, we left off the conversation with me reiterating that I'm not letting go without fighting for us.

I know you had said to say nothing. But I got caught on the couch with tears in my eyes (I'm weak, I know). A talk was inevitable, I think we wanted to see if I had read anything and she seemed to think I didn't. Key logger report from this morning hasn't revealed her trying to change her FB password or anything, she just went on to surf on her page. From keylogger and internet search history I can see that she's constantly looking at pictures on his FB page (him, his kids, wife, etc) and every so often she does the same with her own pictures (us, the kids, etc). I'm hopefully she's torn despite her being adamant that it's over.

Indiegirl- yes, you're right, old flames sometimes never die. There is still a girl from high school that I think about-- one that got away. We never dated actually, but got close and I loved her so much. Broke my heart. We're friends on FB, never really talked though. Saw that she went through a divorce and now back in a relationship after a few years. I never, ever contacted her. I think of her, but know that it's that nostalgic feeling, "the one that got away". If we had dated and broken up, perhaps I would have let it go. To add details to my wife's story with this guy. They were friends, then dated. She wasn't sexually active then, so nothing ever happened. But he was smitten and has carried the flame. She has referenced their night on a road trip in a hotel, where something could have happened, but nothing did. It's clear that she thinks about that and wants to make amends. He thinks he'll finally have sex with a girl he's wanted for 18 years, so he's fat dumb and happy. Now that I'm airing our laundry, I may say that he had sex with her sister right after their breakup-- that's why they stopped talking for years. He had stayed friends with the family. I can't wait to throw that one in there-- how will Thanksgiving dinner be with your parents, the new/old boyfriend, your sister that slept with him and her new boyfriend that will certainly find out about that history.

Sigh. Long rant. Feel like I'm coming undone, but it feels good to talk about it. I'm not talking to anyone else about it, wouldn't know who to talk to. So this is good.

Thanks all.

Mac

Mac,

You're not weak for getting upset about this. It means you are human. You should talk to your doctor about anti-depressants for the time being, it will help you have the clarity you need right now to fight this battle.

Don't feel bad for having a long rant. It's good for you to have outlets for venting right now that AREN'T your wife. When you expose, you will find friends who understand and support your marriage, and you can vent to them too.

You are in limbo, and being in limbo is terrible so you're going to want to get out of limbo by trying to talk about your marriage with your wife. You cannot do this. Even though you haven't exposed yet you need to be in Plan A, and that means no relationship talk for the time being. When you're troubled about being in limbo, I would recommend that you instead get on here and read/learn as much as you can so that you are more prepared. Here's some places to get started:

Dr. Harley on Plan A/Plan B

Another betrayed husband who won his wife back through a STRONG Plan A

Read Mr. Wondering's posts on Plan A here, they are excellent

Your wife doesn't understand how romantic relationships begin or she wouldn't have let herself get close to this other man. You can use that to your advantage right now by working to make life at home/with you as pleasant for her as possible. You will be making yourself more attractive to her without her even realizing it's happening, because as you've said, right now she does not want that.

No arguments, no relationship talk, no conversations about OM or the affair(until you expose). You have lived with this woman and have the inside track on how to spoil her, and I would encourage you to take advantage of that. Nothing over the top, just all of the little things she likes and needs from you. You're going to have to create a contrast here that the exposure will draw out when it happens: life with you is good, life with OM is stressful and shameful. You can work on life with you right now, and when you expose it will take care of life with OM. Make a list TODAY of things you can do that your wife would enjoy or has asked you for in the past and get started on that. Don't expect her to thank you or show gratitude, you're just planting seeds here that will sprout once you do a WIDE exposure and help her understand that she has no future with OM.

But every conversation about your marriage or relationship will push her as if she has to make a decision now, which you don't want (yet). And every conversation about her relationship with the other guy will make her more concerned about taking it underground where you won't be able to snoop and monitor its progress, which you don't want either. Snooping is a strategic asset, and without it you will lose all intel on how you can bust up this affair. You already have a very good start on knowing what is happening in their world, and you need to preserve and protect that channel into their world. She is headed towards giving you the type of information you must have when you expose...you need to have what would be sufficient to convince a judge or jury that your wife is having an affair when you go to expose. It will prevent her from being able to push back and call you a liar, which is what she will desperately want to do (and may even try).

After exposure you can talk to her about the affair, but even then it should be limited to how much the affair is hurting you. Right now I would not say a word about it so that she does not take their relationship underground where you can't snoop. The more she realizes you are aware, the more paranoid she will become.

And to recap, talk to your Dr. about ADs so you keep a cool head throughout this ASAP. The more evidence you get of their relationship, the more difficult it will become not to be emotional with her. Keep your head up, you're in a great position to bust this thing up and win your wife back compared to a lot of BHs who come through here!

Mac, I want you to buck up here, because your situation is very hopeful. You feel hopeless because you don't understand what is happening. There is more hope today than 3 days ago when you arrived.

Let me explain what has happened here. Women are only in love with one man at a time. [men are wired differently] She has rekindled her relationship with this man and has fallen in love with him. It is a fantasy relationship much like a crack high that won't be able to withstand the light of day. I don't know what her future plan with this guy is, but the affair is the reason WHY she has fallen out of love. Sure, the love in your marriage was probably on the downward spiral, but her affair is what killed her feelings.

Be assured that her feelings of love CAN COME BACK if you will follow this plan. The first step is to gather evidence for a couple more days and then expose the affair. Once you do that, I predict the affair will end immediately.

Once the affair is killed and the OM is effectively run off, you can begin the hard work to restore the love in your marriage.

Mac you will be OK no matter what!

Now stop talking to her for goodness sakes! She has jelly for brains at the moment. It's like talking to a lovesick 13yo girl about what will 'happen in a year'! She has absolutely no idea and doesn't care so long as her addiction doesn't die TODAY. Addicts only care about today. She will be in gruesome,awful pain when it ends - but then she won't remember it at all!

Unfriend the ex, Mac. Start modelling the behaviour you expect.

If she catches you looking teary again say 'Because I love you so much and nothing is too good for you'.

You are on Plan A duty round the clock.

Get ADs.

Bingo!! Exactly how it's working for me!!

Great! So you're ready for exposure, then?

The most effective exposures are done in 24 hours or less - don't drag it out so they hardly feel it. Ideally you want both his and her phone blown up by shocked people who are confronting them about it. Nuke the A.

Waywards are often prepared for discovery so you have to give them something they are truly unprepared for. They prep for one or two people's discovery and have little speeches like 'My marriage had already crossed a no return bridge before I started catting around' - speeches which sound plausible when it's being delivered to one or two people.

'My marriage had already crossed a no return bridge before I started catting around' - doesn't sound plausible when you are talking to everyone you know.

Sigh. No I'm not ready for exposure yet. I'm terrified about that.

She sent me an email today while I was at work asking for a "truce" so that we'd stop talking about it because it's upsetting both of us. Neither one of us can sleep, etc. Of course, last night she couldn't sleep because she was chatting with buddy. She reiterated that she wasn't going anywhere for now, we're keeping the family intact for sake of kids. But she's over me. Buddy had nothing to do with it, etc. They're friends and it makes her feel better (yes the crack). But she can't believe that I'd think I'd run off with someone else, especially at this time when she's so broken, etc. She's focussed on living in the moment and we'll see where this path leads us. Wants us to stop being awkward around each other and live normally (but without the touching/hugging/ kissing). It made me feel better. I though our chat last night may have hit a nerve and she was ready to snap out of it and give us a chance, without necessarily saying it that way. I had a great day after that. I got home and instant knot in stomach. She's not saying much to me. Fed kids, then she went to bed-- convenient, she's dead tired so likely story. I snooped her email and she sent him a note that she had another discussion with me, sent me an email to call truce. She suspects I snooped her FB messages because I didn't seem to be grasping at straws anymore (I told her I suspected she was falling in love with him based on fact she admitted sending him emails and fact that she was always clutching her phone hiding something). I didn't divulge anything, just told her what I thought as a husband who was told his wife no longer loved him and she turned to "a friend". Anyways, she told him that they should contact by email now (easier for me to snoop). She told him that I don't seem to understand that she ended things with me before contacting him. She's tired of all this and we still have 3 months abroad before heading home-- which is another point that scares me since we're looking for a rental house together when we return (offer is in), so what does she think happens in 3 months when we return? Officially dumping me, leaving me high and dry? Starting the physical relationship with him? That email was no more than venting to a friend, but told him not to sending "private" stuff on FB to avoid giving me ammo in case I'm snooping. So while I thought out email exchange may have been a step in the right direction, it seems once more that she's lying to keep me clueless and subdued and she's not stopping him from sending lovey-dovey emails.

So I still want to collect evidence, just in case I see that she's keeping him at bay.

Like I said, we're abroad with our 3 kids. She's homeschooling two of the kids, no real friends apart from one set of acquaintances. Although I know it'll likely end the affair, I'm afraid the exposure would create havoc here. Another tidbit... next weekend is our son's 3rd birthday. I would rather not be in a crap-storm that day for his sake. Second, the following weekend is her 40th birthday... we had planned something special as a family and still committed to it. I would also rather not destroy that day with exposure before hand. It would be a memory that I'd rather be protected rather than remembered as that period I exposed her to the world. We're having dinner in the Eiffel tower... I know, cry for me. Timing couldn't be worst.

I've taken your advice. No more relationship talk, no more about the affair. I'm supportive and loving. Should I change my FB pictures to that of our family or me and her? Or would that be too obvious and grating for her? I had thought of doing it a few days ago, but now I'm not so sure it's a good idea. I wanted to post the pictures and tag her in them so that buddy can see them as well (we're not FB friends).

Thanks,

Let me know when you are ready to expose and we can move onto next steps. Nothing much to do until that happens and the longer you wait the harder it will be to bust up her affair.

"Sigh. No I'm not ready for exposure yet. I'm terrified about that"

And yes, we were all terrified. But you wont succeed if you allow fear to be your ruler. You should be more afraid of what will happen if you don't.

"Like I said, we're abroad with our 3 kids. She's homeschooling two of the kids, no real friends apart from one set of acquaintances. Although I know it'll likely end the affair, I'm afraid the exposure would create havoc here. Another tidbit... next weekend is our son's 3rd birthday. I would rather not be in a crap-storm that day for his sake. Second, the following weekend is her 40th birthday... we had planned something special as a family and still committed to it. I would also rather not destroy that day with exposure before hand. It would be a memory that I'd rather be protected rather than remembered as that period I exposed her to the world. We're having dinner in the Eiffel tower... I know, cry for me. Timing couldn't be worst. "

There is no such thing as a "perfect time." I view the above as conflict avoidance. It is in your sons best interest that you bust up his mothers affair and save his family. He won't remember his 3rd birthday party but he will remember losing his family because you wouldn't lift a finger to run off some creepy OM.

Don't skip this and then post big long updates. There's no point to much of anything else you do if you are going to skip this.

Your wife is having an affair - how are you NOT in a crap-storm?

Mac,

We get two kinds of husbands with WW.

The ones who cower in the face of another man who is trying to replace them, and two, the ones who fight to defend their families in the face of a threat.

Right now, you are in the first category. You should also understand that is the path that will lead to divorce.

We get you are scared, but are you so scared you will let yourself be replaced?

You avoid this because of a 3rd birthday? Do you care if OM hosts the 4th birthday next year? Do you understand what your inaction is leading to?

I won't skip the exposure. I know it needs to happen.

The longer you avoid exposure, the more damage is done to your marriage and the harder recovery becomes.

At this point that is the top priority. There is no chance in getting your wife to think straight while this is going on. It has to be stopped immediately and the surest way to do that is exposure as far and wide as possible and as soon as possible. I believe the evidence you have suffices. That should be your main focus until it's done.

Awwww. So glad her claptrap makes you 'feel better' while your kids lose their mother.


Translation: you sat down and had a few puffs of what she's smoking. You feel so much better when she's leading you the Hope House of Mirrors, that you just want to hang on just one more DAY! Hang logic and long term!

It's not just waywards who get foggy on love.





Are you freaking kidding me? I exposed to bereaved parents on the first anniversary of the death. People here have blown apart family Christmases because the A is more important - you are chickening out over a child's bday party?

So it's OK for your child to be betrayed on that day and each one leading up?

You're terrified. We all were. Hands shaking as I sent out the messages.

You can't say you're not ready to go over the top and expect to win the war.

Why are you talking to a drunk instead of taking the bottle away?

She can't hear you and won't remember any of this.

The Eiffel tower dinner wont work. She knows you are doing nothing about her A. The addict wants that situation to continue - but the wife side of her judges you for it.

The perfect time is now, not later. You will always find a multitude of "reasons" to put this off if you are looking.

Mac,

I'm going to be a bit of a counterweight here and say make sure your evidence is solid before you expose. Your wife is going to want to control everyone's reaction and the better your evidence is, the less she will be able to do that. Friends and relatives of waywards love to find excuses and practice denial of what is rather obvious to everyone else.

From what you've said about their emails already to this point, it looks pretty damning to me. Is there any way you could summarize more of what exactly has been said between them? The vets here have helped other posters hundreds or thousands of times and will be able to tell you when you've got your smoking gun.

Another aspect of this is you need to be confident and assertive about this, and be ready for that. People are going to try to talk you into believing that you're making assumptions or that you're jumping to conclusions. You need to be firm with these people and stick to your guns when you go to expose.

The "truce" talk is a trap. It means that your wife wants you to sit back and be a nice boy while she demolishes your family and runs off with OM. My wife acted the same way. While you don't want to pursue conflict with her, she needs to understand clearly that while she may want to pursue abandoning your marriage, you are not interested. You can say this respectfully when the topic comes up. If she asks for a "truce" that actually means "agree to give up on the marriage" you can simply keep it to "I care about you and am not interested in a divorce" and leave it there. She may want that, but you don't have to help her with it and she would much prefer that you did so she can offload some of her guilt onto you. "See, he wants it too!"

I would not believe her timeline you mentioned at the beginning of her wanting to "stay with you for the sake of your kids" for one minute. She is wandering aimlessly in the fog right now, she probably has no idea what she wants to do in 3 weeks let alone a year.

I think you are doing alright here, but I agree with the others about the 40th birthday deal, for three reasons:

(1) You WILL be miserable trying to keep up a charade during this birthday party, and I would bet money you will physically feel ill if you all are planning to eat there. Yes, it was thoughtful and all, but those plans were made before your wife decided to torpedo your marriage. You are NOT unreasonable in the least to alter such plans. Your life has just fundamentally changed, whether you recover your marriage here or not. Life is not the same as it was when you planned this party and there's no reason at all to pretend it is.

(2) Your wife does NOT care about you right now and I doubt the event would mean anything to her if the affair had 3 months to develop. She'd might smile and say thanks, and then blow you off to go call OM on her cell phone. Trust me man, I have been here. My birthday was about 2 weeks before d-day in my situation (and about 2 weeks after my wife had told me many of the same things yours has and asked to separate) and my wife bought me a bag of chips as a birthday present. Not kidding. She's in lala land, dude. Things like birthdays and family events are the farthest thing from her mind. She is in the midst of adultery, family is meaningless to her right now. It's not BAD to do nice things for her, that's the whole point of Plan A, but you need to understand they are drops in the bucket for her until OM is gone.

(3) Most important reason: You cannot afford to wait 3 months. If you get sufficient evidence in 5 days, you need to expose in 6, at the latest. 3 months is more than enough time to take your situation from hopeful to hopeless. The more your wife gets wrapped up in OM, the worse off you are.

Lots here to digest from everyone. We're in your corner here, we just do not want to see you make very costly mistakes we've seen others make or have made ourselves.

Yes, exactly. Same for me too. It was a nervous rush, scared of what I was doing but hopeful because it was my only hope and satisfying because it was tearing me up to keep my wife's affair a secret.

Let me just say, I didn't want to expose either. My husband has a career that he could very literally lose his job because of adultery. I was scared. I was scared ***EDIT***. Guess what? A year and a half later I have my marriage and family back together and we're well into recovery. MOSTLY because I exposed and killed the affair that way. Waiting does NOTHING to help you. Nothing!

Yes and she then emailed OM about the 'truce' to reassure him she had put him back in his box!

Mac, you have done nothing aggressive to warrant talk of a 'truce' - they know you should be less passive. But are gaslighting you into allowing an attack.

Married women are preferred mistresses for married men - but women fall too much in love to keep up the double life. They get in trouble for not managing the home deceit as well as he is. She's been instructed to manage you and prevent you causing trouble for him and his wife.

That's all she cares about - doing as her dealer bids. She won't even notice you Plan A ing her before an exposure.






I will always remember a guy who had Plan Nothinged (it's not Plan A without exposure) for many months, just trying not to annoy her or upset the affair, telling Dr H he was now ready to expose.

Two years he'd waited.

Dr H said there was nothing he could now do. After months of passive, doormat behaviour Dr H said he was unlikely to ever be attractive enough to win his wife back, even if the A ended.

He said "It is very hard to save a marriage if you are an enabler".

I've not ever seen a man get away with allowing another man consequence-free access to his wife and then recover.

Mac,

A meek husband cannot compete with OM, who she views as a knight in shining armor.

At your dinner, you will sound like blah blah blah while she daydreams.

Reach into your trousers, get a firm grip of those two, and chase this weasel out of your family's life.

I'll get myself ready for the exposure in the next couple of days. I think I have enough, but would have preferred a bit more. Their discussions weren't rich in damming evidence, apart from planning a meeting in July for lunch or a drink, some racy topics and him remembering she had a nice butt. They referenced discussions where they opened up about their feelings, but I don't have those emails/texts/messages, they've been deleted and I can't recover them. He made mention of her saying that they shoulda/coulda/woulda (reference to fact that they should have had sex when they dated so long ago) and that was his doorway to express his feelings, etc. She said she was happy they reconnected and had a chance to do so. She feels this all happened for a reason, and perhaps they were meant to wait because they were so special together (or something like that I don't have transcript with me). Their last chat on FB ended with him saying "Love U", and she responded with "Love U too. I promised myself I wouldn't say this on electronic devices so next time will be when I see you, if I ever get to see you". She then wrote that she'd been writing and deleting something for a couple minutes, and he encouraged her to write it and send it. She never did. He left off asking her to write it and send it out while he was away getting his kids to bed. She never did. Oh, and he asked her if she remembered the first time he told her he loved her-- she didn't remember. It was the day she left for a job, ending their relationship. He had mumbled it, she asked him to repeat he got scared said something else and drove off. To me its damning enough, but I'm afraid that most of the discussion could be explained away as two friend reminiscing about the past, an excuse to make them both feel good in difficult situations, etc. Even the "Love U" would be interpreted as something two old friends would say. It's not normal, but I wanted more. I'd like for them to say "I love you" again, make plans of some sort and certainly completely contradict the email she sent me. I can use that email to contrast story she tells me with what she tells him.

Thanks again, all. Some tough love here, that's good. She knows I'm not going down without a fight. She'll see how much I mean it pretty soon.

Why wait? All the delay serves is to give your wife further evidence that you don't really care about her. From her perspective, if you really cared about her you would have been right on top of this issue, driving off the OM from the get go. You failure in not catching on sooner is further evidence against you. You are way too wrapped up in yourself to appreciate the dynamics of what is really going on here. Delay and inaction are your worst enemies. Stop acting timid. This is a war for your wife's affection, and you are not going to win it by acting like a shrinking violet what doesn't really care about her.

That's solid proof.



'You' will never be 'ready' to do this. You do it while unready - the courage shows up after its done. Waiting makes you more nervous and the affair gets entrenched by the hour.

Getting your exposure Plan ready is wise though. You should have the contact information for all targets, your template letters and ensure you will be uninterrupted while you get it done in one shot.

It shouldn't take more than 24 hours to get your exposure ready.

Every second you delay is working against you. Seconds count in a situation like this. Expose ASAP.

When will you be exposing?

Who is on your exposure list?

Exposure list:
OM's wife, brother and anyone with same last name as him on his FB account. Will also send him an email. I now know where his wive works, I was planning on calling her- is that too direct. I don't have an email for her and thought that perhaps telling her "in person" would be more respectful. She'll likely have many questions and I'd prefer a 5 minute call than a confusing FB message followed by exposure to everyone else.

My wife's parents, brother and sister, their wife/boyfriend.

Timeline, dunno. There was no activity last night. I managed to work her email account and find a couple more emails from 10 days ago. After I first confronted her about my doubts she pushed him off and told him she had a lot of stuff to work out with me. We have kids and she needs to be fair. That missing email is putting some later discussions in context. Perhaps I need to continue building my Plan A before exposing-- shouldn't I project myself as a loving caring husband, confident... her knight in shining armour as someone put it? I haven't been that in a few days, but I want be in a position where I'm outwardly confident, demonstratively happy to be with her, etc. Then I expose. I know I'm get blamed here for delaying, etc. But lately I've been a shell of a man, and going through exposure that way not make me look any better.

How can you be a knight while still bowing to the Dragon and trying not to upset it?!!!

You will feel stronger the minute you expose, because you are not the one being responsible for making the argument any more. Other people will do it leaving you free to be loving towards your wife.

It's impossible to Plan A before exposure - it just turns into an argument every time and she's too foggy to listen to you. She thinks 'I'm still here what's the big deal?'

You are dreadfully confused about the role of exposure in Plan A and seem to think exposure is separate.

Exposure IS Plan A. Plan A without exposure is Plan Doormat and women do not respond to that.

Sitting idly while a man contacts your wife = uncaring.

Protecting her and blocking a scuzzbucket from using her = Plan A.

Leaving your wife in a confusing fog where she doesn't know what to do = uncaring.

Making it appear the OM is the only one who really knows the true her and her faults = uncaring.

Openly declaring your love for her to the world even in the middle of a crisis of her own making = Plan A.

Trying to show off to her in private without actually helping her or taking any risk = uncaring.

Getting all the people she loves involved to help her = Plan A.

Running off the other guy = Plan A.

Keeping a cool, patient loving demeanour even though the APs are freaking out and blaming you = Plan A.


So what you propose isn't "building Plan A" it's just a way of showing you are uncaring. Too timid to really fight for her.

She is bound to have very little respect for you while the A continues under your nose and you do nothing.

Trying to compete, instead of running him off is bartering. Getting weepy instead of running him off is needy and demanding ( but without exposure, inevitable)

That is a good idea to call her first and THEN expose to his Facebook friends.


Sounds good! I would be sure and use the talking points on my exposure thread. You are not exposing to be mean or vengeful, but to get their support for your marriage.

Do you plan on telling your own parents?


Plan A is a) exposure and b) making a commitment to meet her needs if she will end her affair and avoiding love busters. All of your efforts to meet her needs will be of very little effect as long as she is in contact with the OM. This is why exposure should be done right away.

The sooner you get this out of the way, the sooner you can start working on your marriage.

Have you read my exposure thread about what happens AFTER you expose? Do you know what to expect? Do you know your next steps? Running off the OM is only the first step in recovery.

Plan A does no good before exposure. My WW demanded a divorce and I unknowingly did plan A for 2 weeks before I discovered her affair after finding MB. Every drastic change I made to be a better husband only made her angry at the time. She had multiple excuses for why my change meant nothing. Almost every evening I would get her to talk with me about ways to save our marriage and the next day she would be completely against it again. OM was coaching her against me. Her life with me, no matter how much better I became, could never hold a candle to the fantasy future she saw with OM. Exposure made her very angry but it made me feel much stronger. I wasn't able to hold myself back from exposing after only knowing for a few days. I had enough evidence that I knew there was an affair and I stood my ground against her lies and gas-lighting about it only being a friendship.

Your marriage is under attack. Not a direct and obvious attack but a sneaky and deceitful attack. Either one is evil and must be exposed for what it is. Good can not bargain with evil over a timeline. Any compromise between the two is no compromise at all; it is a victory for evil. You can't sacrifice time to the affair (evil) in order to make yourself look good. No matter how much better you think you might appear, if the affair is still active you will continue to look weak.

The only perfect time to expose an affair is as soon as possible.

Hi All,

I'm exposing today. Yes I'm scared, but I need to get this over and rebuild my marriage. I'm starting with OM's wife, then OM, wife's family, etc.
Yes, I was a bit confused regarding Plan A; I thought I needed to create a contrast between me and him before exposure, but I see it was a silly idea.
When she asks how I got my evidence, I don't want to declare my keylogger-- I'll want to monitor progress over time. I think I can explain how I got my evidence (sometimes she does forget to log out of FB). But should I come clean about it? In case it blows up in my face later while we're making progress? When do you stop snooping??

I'd like to thank everyone for the guidance and courage you've given me. Truly appreciated.

When she asks you how you got your evidence, refuse to be allowed to be drawn into that discussion. Just say " Never mind how - I know everything and I expect you to be completely truthful about ALL of it Without trying to figure out how much I know."

If she rebounds with how awful exposure is and she can't trust you to be honest with you (yada yada) just say that people care too much about her to stand by and let her do this alone.