Jaysmom,

Thank you and God bless. I can hear the kindness in your post. Part of why I started this thread and spoke to Dr H (radio) for advise is because I want to know EXACTLY what I am up against.

I read reams and reams of posts about A on this Forum - I know how devastating they are.

In about 1 hour you've all told me:

- He could be lying to me about the state of the M: So I will be very careful to cross check his story and no take for granted that his perspective is the only one there is.

- Most relationships that start out this way (95% I'm told) don't work out because of the basis of dishonesty: I'll be watching out like a hawk that we don't do this to ourselves.

- The relationship will probably end and I should make sure it's worth it: If it does, I will have no regrets. I tried, and it didn't work out. I gained a lot. He has given me alot however I look at this.

I'm sorry if I hurt anyone by posting ...

We're either gonna be in the 5% or not.

There is a 5% chance that he is for real, that we are for real. I know it's hard for a lot of you to see that because of your situation. But it is POSSIBLE that we are the exception to the rule.

PS. It almost ALWAYS falls down to the woman to moderate the progress of her relationship. I am no different.

AllsFair...

I would like to invite you to email myself and my husband, Mr. W...Either of us would be glad to call you (we have free long distance) or if you aren't comfortable with that, then you could call us...I think that you *might* perhaps gain more from talking to a couple that has experienced infidelity firsthand...Many times, as I know you realize, meaning gets lost in the written word, for that reason I'm afraid that anything that I write to you might convey something unintentional and not allow me to establish rapport with you...You are obviously conflicted about what's going on in your life or you wouldn't be posting on an infidelity website...Would you please give me the opportunity to help you sort through your feelings and allow me to offer you my perspective as a former wayward spouse? If so, I would be more than glad to offer you a realistic view from the other side...Currently I am at my office, but I will be available around 4p.m. or so EST...Our email addy is in my signature...I will check it periodically for your response...I hope that you will at least consider my offer...I would genuinely love to share my point of view with you...

Best,

Mrs. Wondering

*Edited to add..........I just realized that I posted under Mr. W's name...Oh well...LOL...the offer still stands AllsFair, K? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Dr Harley would tell you to stop being a ** and end your affair. He will tell you that an affair is doomed to FAILURE. He would tell you start using some intelligence in your choice of marriage partners. A relationship with a partner who believes in dishonesty and unfaitfulness is a fools missions and Dr Harley would tell you so.

?



No one in their right mind will respect an adulterous affair, dear. You are not talking to folks here who will tell you what you want to hear. You won't find many parrots here.

There is nothing respectful about what you are doing. Your affair is about as romantic and "respectful" as two pigs rutting in the pig pen. No one should use respectful words to describe something so disgusting and putrid.


So you have something against adultery but only when its done TO YOU? Wouldn't that make you a hypocrite?

If you married an adulterer and you condone adultery, wouldn't it be sort of silly to object when the adulterer only practices what was a known trait?

I don't sense that you are really thinking this through, are you?

Thanks for the kudos LJ,

It's always nice to have someone appreciate what you've written.

Notice the pattern though?

Here is an intellegent and reasonably articulate young woman..we can see that she does have some ability to play connect the dots..

nonetheless..she says that if such an event were to occur in her own marriage..she would *kill* the OW and THEN go work on the marriage issues [presumably after the funeral and whatnot].

The double standard seems to somehow go unnoticed. What she expects from other women [to back off until she and her H make things right or end them fully or die for their impertinence] and what she expects from herself.

What she is doing..does not line up with her OWN ethical standards..and yet..

It is also interesting to note that she DOES see herself in competition with his wife..which is a direct contradiction from her previous assertions that the marriage was only tied up with some business slumgullion..mere papertrail hinderances to a divorce already in process.

And so it goes.

It is not our situations that make it impossible to believe, but simple common sense and maturity. It is a LACK of clear thinking and life experience that allows you to imagine that:

a) he will ever leave his wife [he won't]

b) that you are not being used as a piece of side [censored]

c) that YOU are the "exception"

d) that marrying a person who does not believe in honesty or faithfulness would make a good marriage partner.

And you forgot MY best advice of the day:

e) NEVER PUT OUT FOR FREE!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

At least get paid for your services!

Actually, I think this would count as a LB <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I told you, I care about him, I'm not here to ****** about his W - I don't know her except for what he's told me.

I am minding my business, which right now is OUR relationship. So I'm meeting ENs and removing LBs. I'm letting him know my expectations (whether he's lying or not this still lets him know where I stand).

It's not a dramatic relationship. It's not all fire and sex and scandalous bedroom antics. It's a regular relationship at 7 months, losing some of the 'new' edge if anything and settling comfortably except the issue of the impending D.

I'm not trying to hurt anybody, he can get a D and commit to the relationship by December or it's over. Not badly either. With a conversation and hug, explaining I must move on.

If he's lying that's his choice. He should be an actor cause he'd win an Oscar. But I don't think he is. At all. Sorry.

And right and left brain working fine thank you. (I don't mind lessons. Life is nothing but lessons and blessings anyway)

hi AF,

I know you believe your SO, the OW in my WH's life did the same. He had played us both, telling us both he loves us etc. She did not see him calling me from his work with the sweetest love messages, she did not read the emails he sent me. Until one day i called and she was there, she realized it was me he was talking to, even though he tried to make it sound like a regular talk... OW got very upset and called him a player (she shouted it, i heard it) and WH told her to "shut the f**k up b****h". She believed him when he said it was over between us for many months.. was actually 8 months that he lied to her. Maybe something to think about... He might contact her via phone or email when he is at work as well, you cant know that.. call the wife, then you will have peace of mind.

And if she tells you, yes the marriage is over, its only due to the business that the divorce aint over, then this will be your absolution from her and you should feel a whole lot better. If not, well then you will know what the deal is and can make your own choice whether to find someone else, or stay the OW.

My first thought is, why is any of the above your business? Why is THEIR marriage or his wife's ability to meet or not meet his needs any of your business?

if things are so great between you two...then you have nothing to lose by talking to his W. besides....if he loves and respects you as you say....

he will be thanking you for doing what he simply can't do...coming clean to his wife.

dear...we didn't have a bad M. had bumps...who doesn't. Nothing i did....gave him the right to lie about our M, and re-write our M....nothing justifies adultry. NOTHING!!! i have been the wife of his dreams...thats why they usually always....head back home. we are real...OP are escapes from reality. You can't live in fantasy...eventually you have to face reality. don't you see what we are all saying.... I have heard the lies the OW was told....and she was a bit in shock to hear my side...but....i ended contact with her...and my H was able to continue lying and covering up to her. she decided to believe him.

i decided to let God control it. and honey....its falling apart. His guilt is evident. He is miserable.

so what will it hurt to speak to his wife...Huh? because he asks you not to? whats his reasoning for not? buisness? if they are divorcing anyway and have no children? sounds like a big fat cover to me!

what exactly are you fighting for dear? fighting to get this man to leave his wife? fighting for a married man who claims to be sooooo unhappy...but yet refuses to divorce his wife...

go ahead...seek out a second side to his story.

JM

In other words, you are AFRAID to call her because you know he will dump you like a hot potato. And we all know why. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

You know you will find out everything he has told you is a lie and you are only being used. There is no "divorce," dear.

You just contradicted yourself. You said you're keeping an eye on his MARRIAGE, but you're not a homewrecker????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Please re-read the above and YOU tell me what's glaringly wrong with that statement?

Allsfair...

Are you at least considering my offer? I'm not going to scream and yell at you, I sincerely want to share my story with you...I really think that you *may* gleen something of value from speaking to me...I honestly do care...what do you say?

Mrs. W

if i didn't already love my WS....if i didn't have a history with him.....if i hadn't loved and been committed to this man for a very long time.......

I WOULD NEVER BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM NOW

i would NEVER be in a relationship with a man who was willing to break his marraige vows and cheat on me FOR ANY REASON....if i hadn't already had a relationship with him when he was a good man......if i didn't have all of that history that makes my heart rule over my head....i would know better than to ever want to try again with a man like this.....i would want better for myself.....i deserve better

i feel sorry for you and every OW who thinks so little for themselves that they walk into a relationship with someone who they know for certain is willing to do this and are foolish enough to think that you are "so special" he won't do the same things to you...

someone who can rationalize and excuse hurting the person who loves them most in the world.....who they promised before god to love, honor, and cherish, FORSAKING ALL OTHERS UNTIL DEATH

what a fool you are to want this man...to fight for this man....to not run as fast and as far as you can

he NEVER was a good, honest man, committed only to you

and you still fell in love with him.....

what a fool you are

what did Dr H tell you when you called the radio show?

B I N G O !

And how do you know any of what he says is true? Because he says he LOVESSSSSSSSSS you? Because he's good in bed???????

Is he also the sole source for your info about his sad sad tale of the state of his marriage and his <cough> <cough> pending 2 year divorce in the making? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Noodle,

See, here's the thing. I've been called on for saying I would "kill" my H's OW, "what if he lied to her?" I've been asked by friends. The fact is, even if he lied to her, I wouldn't give a toss. I'd physically remove her from our lives after giving her a good trashing. Because I WOULDN'T know her from Adam. And my H is my family.

No, I don't see it as hypocritical with my actions. If I caught scent my H was having an A I'd hunt it down! His W knows about me, not in truth, but she knows. I haven't had anyone banging my door down.

If there was anything to the marriage and he was lying to me where would he find time to be with me as often as we have been? Why would he meet my friends or speak with them? I won't introduce him to my family until I see some D papers though. I speak to him all hours of the day. We've been attached at the hip for 7 months.

I only take calculated chances, and I've kept the stakes high enough that he wouldn't be in this if he didn't care. As I told him in my email - if he doesn't see a future for us HE wants to WORK towards he should let me know.

I have a temper and he knows it. He has never hidden his M or W or DD (from his youth) or house address or number or work address or anything from me. If this was a "dirty affair" as Melody put it, he sure didn't take the usual steps to hide it.

I'm no fool. And this is a calculated risk.

Melody, like I said I GET PAID LOADS and even if we end it would still be one of those relationships that raised the bars of my expectations from men.

Just so you know, Mel, he does NOT bad mouth his wife and I never would either. It took him a long time to tell me any details about the M. I don't think she's evil or crazy or any of that. IMO she just doesn't want him.

Which is fine. Cos, I do.

And if I'm wrong then the relationship won't go anywhere anyway and there'd just have been a little more love spread around the world.

Melody seriously I worry for you. Your obsession with prostitutes and payments for sexual services is a little disconcerting? Is this how you view your marriage? An barter of goods and services? If so I hope you at least ask for a bit more than money? I mean I DO have a job and good life for a 24 year old, my parents DO have money, I am educated and WILL be enrolling for an MA. Money is not such a big issue for me 'deary' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I ask him for more than just money, and he gives it without fail. That's why I'm 'fighting' for this.

I had a colleague at work who was involved with a MM for a period of years. He told her all the same things your MM has told you - bad M, no sex, etc. He also told her the D had been filed but was "on hold" - first because of some issues in his business and, then, because his W was diagnosed with cancer. She broke it off with him, met a REALLY nice (single) guy who she dated for over a year. Nice guy proposed to her. At the exact same time, MM called her and told her he had filed for D and please, please, please don't marry Nice Guy he was there to prove to her he meant what he said. Well, a simple check of court records in all of the counties in his State established they had not filed for D. She then spoke to his wife who had no clue the girlfriend existed and politely informed the girlfriend they always had a very close relationship and were now, in fact, expecting another child.....If I were you, I'd check out MM's story by asking his W whether they are really splitsville....It will, at least, establish your MM's credibiliy and integrity, or lack thereof.

Regards,

BB

Ohhhh, I see. So only YOUR marriage would count. She (his WIFE) is less a human being therefore her marriage is not important like yours. Makes perfect sense. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

AF...i want to add just one more thing. i too come from a divorced family. thats why i fight for what i believe in so hard. thats why i spend hours and hours in prayer...on my face to God.

God knows my convictions. I grew up torn between my mother and father. My mother was the WW. i saw my dad cry. i say his pain. i grew up watching my mother live in the guilt and torment of what she did and the family she hurt.

all to end up with the OM. My step dad is the best most wonderful person. he however is not my father. he is my step dad. He loves my mom. they married. they had a child together. they are still married 22 years later. they both love God and i know in my heart God forgave them.

but let me tell you....my mom and step dad look happy to others...but they are not. they are miserable. they do not have a happy marriage. they have had happy times. but she isn't happy. He isn't happy. they are still married i believe because they don't want to divorce...again.

my mother to this day...will still at times apologize to my dad. My mother to this day...still lies to me and says my dad was the reason they divorced...why...because...she is still that WW. still blaming and covering her sins.

you may marry this man, your M might survive as you so desperatly want it to. but it may only survive. just like my mom's. Married because they don't want to divorce again. My dear...they are so unhappy...they both live with the guilt.

i hope you will pray about this. you deserve someone good. someone who will be proud of you and not hide you. someone who will give you ALL of their heart. i just don't see anything good coming out of a relationship that has to be hidden.

Jaysmom

Actually resilient..

Sorry to correct you...[winks] but *actually..the self contradiction comes only from her own mouth [er..fingers]

1 Keeping close watch on the marital status

[ok..I'm gonna be crude here to make a point..she says she is keeping watch for even a "whiff"..but is it realistic to expect to be able to single out the odor of ONE turd when you are IN a sewer?]

vs

2 Minding her own business and dealing with her own relationship issues.

See..it cannot be any other way..she is forced to live a contradiction..she MUST watch his marriage..because the health of HER relationship DEPENDS on the failure of the marriage. If things were showing any sort of improvement..that would be a direct threat to her own investment.

The marriage and the affair are directly tied together..one can not be separated from the other. The can not exist co-dependently forever..one of them has to end.


Affairs..once outed [I know that an affair in which the WS is having some needs met by the spouse..and some by the OP can in fact continue for a very long time] resolve themselves.

Which actually..could make exposing a good plan for her..just as it could for his wife if she knew [let's not assume that she does]

If Mr WS was FORCED to deal with his reality..which IS the fact that he is having an affair..if he just had to deal with his customers and neighborhood and family and friends and passers by on the street KNOWING..then he would have nothing to lose. He would in essence be free to make his honest choice and damn the consequences. [cold hard fact..loss just IS a fact of divorce..he should not expect to be able to find a way out that won't COST him anything..which..aside from outright lying..is the only thing that comes to mind when trying to figure how a simple divorce could take so many years to bring about]

Mr WS is hanging on to SOMETHING..we don't know what, maybe HE doesn't know what. OW for *sure* doesn't know what.