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But I must say that I object to the ridiculous notions that the 1) the original poster should give greater credence to those posters in recovered marriages, and 2) that a poster's difference of opinion is somehow "damaging". I could not agree more. Well said.
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I am really surprised that you think it is a good idea to use a technique in your marriage that you learned in a filthy affair. I knew of some sexual things that OW did for my then-H. I found out thru snooping efforts, not by asking him. I can say with all honesty I found those things were indeed filthy and not for the faint of heart to read about. I don't consider myself a prude, but if eliminating on someone during sex (and we're not talking only liquid) is whats consider un-filthy, then call me PRUDE to infinity. (I apologize for the graphic detail, folks) Thats just a taste of what was going on between the two of them. Jo
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I've read the whole thread here, and what I see Hiker saying is that you need to be sensitive about your partners feelings when you tell them what they want to know. I don't see where he is telling anybody to lie or deceive them. I don't see that he is telling the BS they can't ask certain questions. I think he has been saying the BS needs to be careful that they might hear something they wish they didn't. He didn't say don't ever ask. And isn't he saying that there are ways of telling the truth that might be less hurtful than others.
Just my take.
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Mickey, scroll back to page 1 and reread. This is what Hiker posted:
From How to Survive An Affair:
"I caution against asking (and often recommend not answering)comparative questions, particularly about physical attributes, sexual prowess, and personality. Questions in this category include “Did your lover have (a) bigger or better _____ than I do?” or “Was your lover better or more creative in bed than I am?” These kinds of questions don’t serve any real purpose in terms of the healing process and usually just amplify the pain and jealousy the injured partner feels. If you are the cheater and your partner asks you a comparative question of this nature, you should simply remind them that the question isn’t a very healthy one and that you don’t intend to answer it. Reassure them that you are willing to be completely honest, but that you also feel responsible for not sharing illicit details of the affair that serve no function."
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Not everyone had a spouse that was willing to do things required to allow for recovery.... but the cult following would have you believe that EVERYONE that follows the MB program will recover. This is simply not true. Many will... some, sadly, will not. There is no cult following here MEDC. Not everyone likes the Harley Koolaid. Not anyone claims that drinking such Koolaid will ALWYS result in a saved marriage. It just makes sense to back the fastest horse because the chances of being successful are increased that way.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW) D-Day August 2005 Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23 Empty Nesters. Fully Recovered.
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Big K,
I have told him this more times than I can count.
I'm still waiting for the story.
Yesterday, I found out, from OW, that I needed to "get rid of" some furniture. I had asked repeatedly for my husband to tell me the story, so I could rid my house of what I needed to get rid of. He just isn't willing to open up to me.
This has set me back to square one. ALL THE WAY BACK. I told him yesterday, that his lies of omission are worse than anything - and now I don't even know what questions to ask, so I suppose I must ask EVERYTHING.
That, I am afraid, will be VERY painful. For the both of us.
Lucky to be where I am, in a safe place to get marriage-related support. Recovered. Happy. Most recent D-day Fall 2005 Our new marriage began that day. Not easily, but it did happen.
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((((Schoolbus))))
I totally understand.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW) D-Day August 2005 Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23 Empty Nesters. Fully Recovered.
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b3....,
I would like to make a suggestion. I fall in the camp of telling your H everything he wants to know. I also think there is a difference between "radical' honesty, and 'brutal' honesty.
If I could make a suggestion to you and your H, I would suggest to your H that he write down his questions or at least the major ones and then write down WHY he needs to know, and how this knowledge will help HIM. If he does this and then goes back a few days later and decides HE MUST know the answer to a particular question he should ask it.
Do you see my point??? Perhaps not. IT is NOT your call as to what he needs to know, but having been on this site for many years, it behoves him to think about what, and why he needs to know something. Offer him the chance to really think about it with the assurances that you will answer anything he asks.
He really may need to know. I would also encourage you to think about what YOU know of the affair, and some of the facts that may be asked. Know in your mind how to answer them truthfully but with care.
Want an example, most of us guys do worry to some extent about physical details "was he bigger than me". If the answer is yes, then say yes. "Was he better in bed?" If the answer is yes, then before you say yes, ask him for the opportunity to explain IF there is an explanation.
What do I mean? Was he better because of the excitement of an illicit affair? Did he do some things that your H could do if he so chose to do? Was it the "feelings" you had? If so could you have those "feelings" for your H.
I am of the opinion that some questions have Yes/No answers while others require discussion, and considerably more thought.
So consider asking your H to write them down, and consider why he wants to know them. You already know some of the answers will hurt him...he knows it as well. The affair hurt worse than about anything. But, the point is to NOT paint him into a corner nor to help him paint himself into a corner.
"Yes he was bigger, however, you do some thing much better."
No lies, but ways out if they are possible.
The truth is there is no way this won't be painful and you both know it. It will pain you because you know you are hurting him. It will pain him because he already knows the worst thing...you chose another man. He is looking for hope that YOU could be happy with him.
Please think about this.
God Bless,
JL
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It just makes sense to back the fastest horse because the chances of being successful are increased that way. I stick by what I said. You don't know who the fastest horse is just because there was a spouse willing to work on things. Two of the people I respect most on this site... Believer and MM have not been as LUCKY as you when it comes to their spouse working on things. Their opinion means every bit as much as your fast horse.
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MEDC - I never said otherwise. I also suggest that you would find both of those people offering MB advice. I made NO comment about the state of the marriage or recovery. NONE. It was not my quote.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW) D-Day August 2005 Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23 Empty Nesters. Fully Recovered.
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Listen Hiker45, I am happily married and happily recovered. Had my FWH not answered every specific minute question I asked I would be divorced. I know what positions, what she looked like naked, (unfortunately I had the opportunity to see her nude and I know for a fact he told the truth) I know where they "did it", I know what they talked about, I know how it first began and I know how it ended. I know that he looked forward to seeing her and great details about how he was feeling while pursuing the affair. In short, I know everything that filthy slut knows about him and their disgusting relationship.
Yes I still view the infidelity in such terms. But I as I type that I'm also completely calm and happy to know that my true loving husband is here with me, and he respected me enough, and trusted me enough to reveal all that filth to me. He is a great man, my husband. An incredible man, in fact.
I don't ever have "movies" or suffer from visions of rubbish. My husband's adultery is in the past and does not intrude upon our happy life together at all.
If he had taken your advice I would not have ever been able to "get over it".
Word to the wise.
[color:"#39395A"]***Well, it's sort of hard to still wonder if you were consolation prize in the midst of being cherished.*** - Noodle[/color]
Devastation Day: Aug 26, 2004 [color:"#2964d8"]"I think we have come out on the other side... meaning that we love each other more than we ever did when we loved each other most." [/color] [color:"#7b9af7"] ~Archibald MacLeish[/color]
Very Happily Married Me FBS - 44 Him FWS - 51 I married him all over again, May 07
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Not everyone had a spouse that was willing to do things required to allow for recovery.... but the cult following would have you believe that EVERYONE that follows the MB program will recover. This is simply not true. Many will... some, sadly, will not. There is no cult following here MEDC. Not everyone likes the Harley Koolaid. Not anyone claims that drinking such Koolaid will ALWYS result in a saved marriage. It just makes sense to back the fastest horse because the chances of being successful are increased that way. Its my understanding, from sessions with Steve H., that not all marriages should be saved at any/all cost. There are severe cases, such as mine, where the marriage was too far gone and toxic. To the point, I don't think there is a cult-following here fostering the belief stated above. In my years here I have seen several very severe stories where MB members suggested alternatives to restoring the marriage, but still supported that individual in recoverying their sanity through their divorce. Jo
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To Resilient's point, sometimes the definition of success IS divorce. Not every marriage can and should be saved. However, using these principles can certainly help if there is a chance.
In all the years I have been here I have NEVER EVER seen anyone claim that "everyone who follows the MB program will recover." So this must be a very, very secret "cult" that no one seems to know about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Sitting here pondering the fact this thread is 3 pages long, has now 72 responses, and the original poster has not responded to the original post.
wtf?
BH - me 53, ONS 1979 FWW - 51, 2 EA's, 1 PA Last D-Day, Sep. 30, 2003 Last Contact/recovery began 2-26-04
***You can do anything with time and money...but remember...money won't buy you time!***
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It's 5 pages in Texas, hunny! **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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funny how when I was a member of a certain group here, it would be exceptionally rare to be edited. Now the edits are flying. Cute. yep, she does like you guys.
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I stick by what I said. You don't know who the fastest horse is just because there was a spouse willing to work on things. Two of the people I respect most on this site... Believer and MM have not been as LUCKY as you when it comes to their spouse working on things. Their opinion means every bit as much as your fast horse. MEDC Dr Harley IS the fastest horse on this site. And if advice on these forums contradicts HIS advice then I will follow him if that's OK with you. His advice also enables the BS to move on even if marriage recovery is unsuccessful. I am not sure why you are even beating this horse here.
Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW) D-Day August 2005 Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23 Empty Nesters. Fully Recovered.
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Sitting here pondering the fact this thread is 3 pages long, has now 72 responses, and the original poster has not responded to the original post.
wtf? That is what happens when WS doesn't like the answers...off to somewhere else..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> as far as the other comments flying around....you're all missing many valid points while trying to get yours accross...listen....and pay attention and have some mutual respect... this is one reason you all don't hear from me that often... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Last edited by Send me on my way; 01/07/07 09:10 PM.
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funny how when I was a member of a certain group here, it would be exceptionally rare to be edited. Now the edits are flying. Cute. yep, she does like you guys. your tinfoil cap is a little crooked tonight, friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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yep. that's what it must be.
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