In addition to slightly mistrusting your spouse and avoiding the temptaion of an affair, I think it is also equally, and maybe more important, to keep your spouse's 'love bank' full as the best deterence. My W is attractive, an 8-9, while I'm a 5-6. she's always had guys hitting on her, but in the past she laughed them off. Even I once had a co-worker hitting on me (though at the time I was too naive to even realize it). In either case, to no avail, because we were both happy with each other. Then, over the past two years or so, W and I drifted apart, and our love bank balances began to sink. It was then that a friendship between W and a man at our church blossomed, first into an EA, and then a PA. Likewise, at the depths of my despair after trying to cope with W's affair, another woman showed me a little attention and admiration (totally unrelated to my relationship with my W). I then felt an attraction towards this woman that I would never have felt before.

So, it's just as important to keep the love bank full as it is to avoid temptation.

rprynne...

Excellent posts!!!

I pray that your FWW realizes what an incredibly lucky woman she is to be married to you...(Many of your posts remind me of Mr. W-that's a HUGE compliment from me! )

A smart lineman!!! Who woulda thunk it?

Mrs. W

medc,


Oh, I worry about those people WAY more too!! In the article they talked about high risk people....like narcissists....so yeah. And for the record, you aren't the kind of person I'm talking about really (worrying about).....not because you're "different", but because you've made fighting infidelity such a big purpose in your life. That's the kind of thing that keeps you "in touch" and on top of boundaries....it's one of the "preventative" measures that really lowers vulnerability. There may be some people who can read here all day and then go out and cheat on their spouses....but honestly....that's amazingly sad and scary.



Okay, but we have two "Harleyisms" here. One: We are all wired for infidelity. Two: Infidelity is worse than..... So how do we know which one to believe? Believe one, but not the other? I've been raped, abused and lost a child....and infidelity was not worse than any of them TO ME. However, I recognize it IS to some people and I ask the same thing everyday: WHY DON'T PEOPLE STAND UP???? What's wrong with a society that continues to glorify it?

When I say "worry" (in the above context), what I really mean is "concern", because you're right....in terms of active anxiety....I have alot stronger feelings about the act of infidelity than I ever would about people who believe they are incapable of it.


We <as human beings> are prone to affairs....YOU as an individual have taken steps to transcend whatever "wiring" biology saddled you with. So have I....and it's something I hope that most people reading here will try to do.


God created Adam and Eve and they were still tempted. He uses their example to teach us about temptation. We are tempted on many levels....externally (by people who tempt us) and internally (by our desire to have needs met). It takes boundaries and faith to meet those temptations....not denial.


Yes....and it is our reason that prompts us to discuss these things, right? You're right, dogs don't feel shame (neither do some narcissists), but most people do. And most people who have affairs, didn't believe they ever would....until it happened. What if they HAD believed, and had enforced good marital boundaries BEFORE they cheated? Might it have helped? You're already doing that...and THAT is what makes you "different"....not your biological wiring. You've spent time really looking at (and experiencing) the tragedy that infidelity creates. You are ARMED with that knowledge. It is the "difference" we are trying to share with others here. Denying the existence of vulnerability....only arms people with denial. How can you prevent something you can't even imagine?

For instance, I can couldn't imagine being a mother who would physically abuse her children. But there have been moments where I recognized the frustration inherent in motherhood and felt intensely worried or angry with my children. So when I've felt my control over my emotions slipping....I've taken some time out to compose myself because I don't WANT to be that mother. I don't WANT to cheat on my husband.....so I do the same thing....recognize the danger and take precautions. I think when Dr. Harley says we're all wired....that's what he's trying to do....remind us. He's not saying....medc or starfish...YOU are JUST as capable of an affair as someone else....he's saying if we don't actively do something DIFFERENT....than we can fall prey to our own biology instead of our logic.

Thank you for your post, Galoot...I caught myself not really reading it...and read this quote...

And went, "Wha? That's REALLY tall! Gotta be a typo."



Better 'n coffee.

LA

Rprynne,


Excellent observation! I take back what I said. This is a much better way of describing the connotation that comes in these statements.

Want2Stay

TTH,


I don't believe recovery is contingent on anything other than both spouses having love remaining for one another and being willing to do whatever it takes to work as a team to overcome the A.

You are struggling with the "WHY" of it all. In a lot of ways, I'm still there myself. Try and take a step back for a second. Now imagine all the possible responses that IMLH could give you as a reason WHY she choose to do what she did. What you will find is that there isn't a single answer she can give you that will make you say " I get it now. I understand why you made the choice you did." There isn't an answer she can give you that will make the pain you are in go away or make you OK with what you have lost.

For me, if I hold up LaLa and my M, relationship, the EN's I was good at meeting, the potential risks and consequences versus the choice that was made there is no question of the decision that should have been made. Problem is that it wasn't the decision that was made. I could live to be 150 and I will never understand WHY. The thing is though you don't have to in order to recover your M. No amount of rehashing and second guessing the reasons is going to change what happened. The only possible solution is to accept it and move on with the here and now together. It is not easy to do, believe me. I'm speaking from experience here because I know how damaging getting caught up in this question can be. Remember that acceptance isn't the same thing as being OK with it.

Something else I have noticed is the anger that comes out in your posts. Let me suggest that you find another outlet for it. Take up exercising or something. When you post things like "I have no respect for her" it is incredibly draining on IMLH's lovebank. She is here TRY doing her best to help the two of you recover. In our situation, I didn't raise my voice at LaLa until 7 months after Dday. I have never called her hurtful names. My view of her hasn't changed. I think no less of her today than the day that I married her. I have told LaLa since the very beginning of recovery that there isn't a thing she could do differently to help me more. She is still the person I respect most in my life. Did she make a horrendous choice? You bet. One that has caused me untold amounts of pain. There is no single action she can do that will erase the pain I have experienced, but each small thing she has done becomes a weapon I can use against the pain. I think the same holds true for you TRY, there are many on these forums that would love to have a spouse willing to put in the effort that IMLH is showing. Remember, recovery is a marathon not a sprint. Try to take each day one at a time. Hang in there and keep up the good fight......

Want2Stay

I want to thank everyone who is participating in this dialogue. I'm sorry I have not posted back to you that much. I'm really trying to focus on work while I'm at work or we're going to end up in more hot water.

I have been reading along, and I hope this thread continues. We're both finding it incredibly helpful.

I will take some time this weekend to catch up with y'all.

Thanks all for helping and sharing...

TTH,

Q: Why did she do it?

A: She was acting selfishly and only in order to fulfill her desires for her own life at the time with no regard to your feelings or how you would see it or her in the future. She had basically discounted you all together.

Q: Why did she do THAT?

A: Her love bank was dangerously low and without really understanding that it was being filled by someone else because he was meeting some basic EN she had never really identified and so did not know to ask you to meet it. All she knew was that she was unhappy and OM changed that for her.

Q: How can it be prevented from happening again?

A: By both of you agreeing to meet each other's ENs going forward, being totally honest with each other and following POJA in all things.

Q: What will that get you?

A: The marriage you can both be happy with and in which you can both feel safe to be honest with each other as well as someday regaining confidence that the marriage is secure enough that what happened before will not happen again and that before that would happen, an end to the union would be agreed upon rather than the lies and deception beginning again.

Aww, shucks. Now I'm blushing.

Very nice things for you to say and I appreciate it.

I don't think people are saying they are not willing to do that.

I think people are recognizing the fact that many people in A's don't think they are harming anyone. Most WS's have concluded that the BS's won't find out or they won't care.

I don't buy that at all. I think they know they are harming people...that is why they are hiding their crime.




In fact, I do not feel like many people here are saying they would/could NEVER commit an act that would cause that level of devastation. Most are saying while they do not feel they ever would, that having an affair is something they need to guard against. I am saying...IF the pain of an affair is as great as those horrible things I mentioned...why would we even need to protect ourselves from committing such a horrible act??? As a BS I can easily say that I would NEVER...could NEVER have an affair. Never, ever, never. Why??? Because it would injure my loved ones worse than rape or death.

I think Dr. Harley describes it best when he talks about the "Giver" and the "Taker".

The Taker has taken control, and says; "What about me and what I want?" The Giver, who would be the one that would recognize that the A will hurt, is pushed to the back and not allowed in the discussion.

Deep down, yes they know it will hurt the BS, but they have no clue how much; and don't understand it is so much more devastating than the hurt they may be feeling because of the environment their M is at the moment.

Most the of time they only know how much they hurt and they want to take care of themselves. That's what the taker does.

I know I never knew it would hurt so much, until my W had her A.

JMHO.

S&C

Okay...but I am not talking about "they." I am talking about the average BS on this site...a person educated and experienced in affairs and the vast damage they cause..not being willing to flat out say they would NEVER have an affair.

Sorry it took me so long to get back to this.


You're right and I apologize for that. I wasn't in a particularly good mood that day, but that's no excuse.


Well, for the record, I didn't say that, but rather that I had choices too, but choose differently. But it's a moot point, actually. Given the right set of circumstances, I would hope and pray that I never go down that road.

In terms of the " why " question, I feel it is critical in order to make the corrections to avoid yet another A in the future. "If we don't learn from history, we are bound to repeat it."

How willing is a BS to once again be vunerable to their WS, without having some assurance that they "get it" to the point that BS feels safe enough to do that?

What I sence from TTH's Q is "why" should I allow my heart to R and become vunerable, when SH indicates that his WW just fell a** backwards into an A. If it were so simplistic, "why" couldn't happen again a year or two down the raod? This approach does nothing to affair proof the M, IMHO.

So yes, great introspection on the part of the WS and the BS has to occur before they can come to conclusions about exactly how this will never happen again. Keep in mind, neither thought it would ever happen in the first place. So what will be different about the second or third place without the hard work of "why" right now?

I think from reading that ILMH is on the right track, but TTH needs to be more involved in listeneing to his W.The original thoughts and Q's that he proposed to start this thread, need to be directed point black at her. Her answers will be vital to their R, and how long it will all take.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Thanks



It's probably something none of us would wish for. That said, I believe I'm capable of making as terrible a decision as the next person.


Maybe, I fully understand the need to feel 'safe'.. Granted, my circumstances may differ from many but safe is safe.


I completely understand how hard it is to fell 'safe'.



Jerry [/quote]

Affairs usually arise out of infatuation, not lust. Infatuation is an addiction, specifically to a person, brought about by a sudden flood of brain chemicals (PEA and dopamine), which cause an intense craving for that person. Resisting an infatuation is no easier than to stop smoking, or staying on a diet, for which many of God's other creations have continually failed.

I would think this is the other way around, that they usually start out of lust and turn into infatuation.

MEDC, I agree.

And it's all just so sad.

How does one come to grips with your above statement....and recover their marriage?

How does one accept that they were discarded so quickly and so easily and ever again believe they are cherished by that same person?

I want to be cherished....I want to have been cherished so much that this couldn't have ever happened.

I had natural boundaries in place JUST BECAUSE I loved my husband. No one needed to teach me how to protect my marriage. I just did, because I loved my husband.

But after having been convinced by FWS that he hadn't loved me for years, after FINALLY accepting his wayward babble (I guess) as truth, after having my world turned upside down so much that I don't even know WHAT IS up, I now have to flip it back????

How will I ever know which way is up???

I need to post here so badly and my d@mn stalker has found me out again.

I'm hoping I can hide in this thread...but I doubt it.

It's a really bad day...It's been a really bad few days...a wedding and multiple triggers, and my son's graduation this coming weekend and dealing with in-laws that I wish would drop off the earth.

I'm so weary...

FWS continues on our path to recovery. I'm just so sick of infidelity. I want to UNknow what I know. My brain needs a break and just can't ever have one. OW is always there....being abandoned by the one I trusted with ALL of my heart and soul...it just never goes away.

D-day #2 anniversary is this weekend...

If you remember, MEDC, it was a really bad d-day.

I want to erase these memories...but I can't.

I cannot yet come to grips with the man I've known and loved all these years, being able to do to me what he did to me last year.

And now, he's the model FWS.

My head is still spinning, and I am often back at the place of just utter shock.