Rusty can bring the potato chips!

pssst... that's not his real name, it is a trick....

6years, my H did a stellar Plan A and he didn't even know what a Plan A was. Our MC used a lot of MB principles in her MCing. She understood all about love banks and love busters.

As an FWW I can tell you that a Plan A is brilliant in its simplicity and very effective. Look at it this way. The OM to a WW is "perfection personified". Heck, he has to be to keep the interest up. No dirty socks, no bills, time to woo and not be the man his wife is married to. She deals with the dirty socks and the moods and the day to day life.

My H understood that he had to meet and match the OM at his own game. Yes, it's counterintuitive but it works. My H was NOT a doormat, he made his feelings very clear to me and he set boundaries. If I saw the OM again, I was out of there. His Plan A was respecting me, making me see how much he loved me, being strong and masculine, making me see how lacking the OM was.

WHy is an OM so "perfect" in a WW's eyes? Can't the WW see that it is an unfair comparison? I never got this. I never expected my XW to be super glamorous with 3 kids> How can a WW not see that a husband working, helping with kids, worried about finances etc. is in no position to be Mr Excitement.
I was competeing with a younger, single guy who , as the result of not having kids, had way more disposable income, time to work out, better wardrobe etc.
I just do not understand why any WS, male or female, cannot see that the feild is not level.

Its because the WS is the same as a drunk in the bar. As soon as the OP meets her needs, she gets lost in a fantasy of infatuation. It is the same as a drunk meeting some woman in the bar. He is drunk, the bar is dark and smoky; it is a fantasy world. But when he wakes up the next morning next and sees this porky little woman with no make up on, he is horrified! :MrEEk:

That is exactly what happened, Melody. After about a year together, they were at each other's throats. Guess being a tattoed up, hat backward bad boy was not too impressive to my kids, her folks or any of our old frinds. What a complete moron(no offense to morons) my XW is.

Sorry, Mrs W, I forgot about this until now. Don't want to leave you hanging.

I’d not heard of this until now.

"The Assumptive Close
Act as if the other person has made the decision already. Turn focus of the conversation towards the next level of questions, such as how many they want, when they want it delivered, what size they need, and so on.

Examples
When shall we deliver it to you?
What will your friends say when they see it?
Will 20 cases be enough?
Where will you put it?

How it works
The Assumptive Close works by the Assumption Principle, where acting confidently as if something is true makes it difficult for the other person to deny this. For them to say you are wrong would be to cast themselves as an antisocial naysayer.

Note: This is one of the most common closes used. Many other closes, such as the Alternative Close are variants of the Assumptive Close. “

As if I could ever shut you up Mrs W.

You have sold me. Send me all you have in XX Large!

eta: And bright flaming red...

BTW, above quote came from Changing Minds.org, which I find a bit ironic considering my general stance on WS and FWS.

Life certainly can be interesting, if nothing else.

SCHWEET!!! Email me your Visa card number, and I'll have those to you by Tuesday!

Note: The "bright flaming red" has been discontinued and replaced with a lovely new color called "smokey pink"...It will look fabulous with your eyes!

Mrs. W

That reminds me of the old song, “Your Red Scarf Matches Your Eyes”. Perhaps you should call it Soothing Salmon.

Called an antisocial naysayer in one form or another might sound familiar to a typical BS.

The Assumptive Close appears to sometimes be called fog.

No, in the way you are talking about it, it would be called "Gaslighting"...

Mrs. W

OK, I'll buy that too.

I am not a WW, but I have a lot of empathy for Ahuman because my husband has degraded me by being verbally abusive.

She degraded herself by having an affair. She is now allowing herself to be degraded by being treated so badly by her husband.

What does she need to do to make up for her affair?

What I told my husband is he shouldn't even try because, frankly, there is nothing he could do to make up for his affair.

All that can be done is to shut the door on the past and go forward being the best spouse you can be.

The husband seems to think that he has free license to treat her however he wants, and it's just not right. He certainly has the right to divorce her. If he wants an intact family, then he needs to treat her with respect -- or divorce her and remove himself from her.

Cherished

UPDATE:

Life has been busy in the Human household.

As planned, I have spent the last several weeks focused on (re)identifying and on meeting my BS needs. AND, walking away, removing myself etc. if any of the "aggressive behavior" has started. I can immediately see the advantages, effects--because I dont feel drained or discouraged.

I have also gained some better insight as to where BS stands in this recovery. He doesnt feel exactly the same as some of the points posted. He said he certainly has at one point in time, but has been able to move through it, particularly over the last two years.

BS acknowledges that I have changed. (AN ASIDE: I know this may upset the way some of you see the world. But People can change....you just cant change people).

BS acknowledges that he does want me in his life and this M. (Ahuman: Giant Grin!)

I think the big issue is resentment. BS acknowledges that he has remaining resentment (who wouldnt?!), but IMPORTANTLY that his AOs are not always motivated by that--and come from his way of dealing with things in life sometimes. (He has always been this way to some degree).

I have not asked for him to work on it or given ultimatums or anything. My actions say everything he needs to know. He is an action guy, so it speaks louder to him anyway.

He has opened up more recently (which he has done gradually throughout this recovery).

We have discussed counseling with Harleys and we jointly decided to give it one month and see....that is in two weeks. If he decides in two weeks he doesnt want to go, I will schedule my own apt with Harley. I know from experience over the last five years--there are highs and there are...difficult phases, so even if we are in a "good phase" at the moment, I think it is still useful to go to counseling.

THANKS to all of you who have taken time from your lives to post! As always, say what you think--dont worry about how I may or may not take it.

Gotta run and make breakfast for the munchkins!

Glad you feel all comfy after a couple of weeks away.

I take it your husband gets to still live in fear that you will take away his children should he decide that your cheating is too much for him to live with?

Iam: What is your point in baiting Ahuman? What is it that you get out of hurting women?

Ahuman,

There are people who believe people can change, and there are people who believe people cannot change. The whole premise of Harley's program is that people can choose behavior and eventually it changes character. That's right in line with the thinking of Aristotle in his Ethics.

The opposite belief is gaining ground today, and it is that "I am what I am." People who believe that have a fatalistic view that, no matter what they do, they will still be the way they are -- and it gives them license to do what they please.

I wish you the best. The hurt you have inflicted on him is real and terrible, but it can heal.

Cherished

That is good news! If he decides not to talk to the Harleys, please do it yourself, at least once.

I agree. I think a convo with one of the Harleys would be very helpful.

As if I have any control over her! Ideally, she should offer her husband his children should he decide to divorce her for her adultery.

In fact, all cheaters should do so in order not to 'trap' a spouse into recovery.

Cheaters break up families, why should they walk away with the kids?

I have no desire to hurt Ahuman or women in general. She's done all the hurting.

I'd tell you what I thought of you for typing that but it would certainly be edited by a moderator.

FWIW, I agree with this concept completely.

WW's who proclaim a wish to return to the M ... and if the BH will have them ... should be willing to offer a post-nup, which would include them waiving their custodial rights to their children should her A, or future A's, lead to the final dissolution of the M.

It is simply unfair that a WW, through her poor UNILATERAL choices, can break up a family AND be allowed to take a man's children away from him in the process.

It would put some meaningful ACTION to their meaningless WORDS!!!

I mean ... this is basic RIGHT & WRONG stuff here.