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Originally Posted By: GloveOil
By way of introduction, I hope you're not expecting someone to tell you that the program for fixing your conduct will be different since you've known OM for many years, as opposed to if you'd only known him for a few years or months. Bad boundaries are bad boundaries. You & I both had 'em. It doesn't matter how long we had them, it matters that we fix them. Friendships with members of the opposite sex, in which the content of the conversations & interactions, or the fact of these friendships' existence, are kept secret from one's spouse, are inappropriate no matter how lengthy or brief.

tank ( and GloveOil),

When I read your question, I thought something slightly different from what GloveOil suggests. I think that your own thoughts are that you and the boyfriend should have stayed together years ago. You made a mistake in parting company, because he was the one you were meant to be with, and your finding each other again and feeling so strongly is proof of this for you.

You first post also makes me suspect that you are looking for this kind of validation. You wrote:

Originally Posted By: tank
I want to hear from people who believe they were in love with the OM, and either got over the OM, or tried and moved on in other ways. And, are there people out there that tried the marriage builder plan and it didn't work?


Does "tried and moved on in other ways" mean "left the marriage for OM"? And why are you asking about people who tried the MB plan and it did not work (as if you'd find them still posting here)? How will they help you?

I think you are looking for support to leave the marriage, with or without OM. You need to explore the wrongfulness of this thinking.


BW
Married 1989
His PA 2003-2006
2 kids.
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tank, can you send your BH here?

We can really help him (and thus help YOU) through this. We can point him in the right direction and that will greatly help YOU too.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Tank's BH is here, MF...

HIS THREAD

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Guess I'm joining the thread a little late, but I was a WW. This is what I would suggest...

1- First of all, don't let "harshness" deter you. Most of it is just people being honest and not letting you get away with self-delusion. Self-delusion is a huge feature of being wayward so it's important to smash it. Occasionally some harshness results from people having no tact, but don't let that deter you either because this is such a painful subject that you really need to focus on the content of what is being said and not so much how it is being said. (Me, I was a serial cheater and we get the heaviest 2x4s around here. In comparison you had a toothpick thrown at you, trust me on this!)

2- Part of getting through withdrawal is accepting the fact that the feelings in the affair were just a fantasy. Okay so you were involved in the past, but relationships that are on-again, off-again must have been off-again for a reason. And yes, the idea of a soul mate is pure superstition. Plenty of women divorce their husbands to be with their "soul mates" only to get divorced two years later because they found their "real" soul mate. (That was not my particular problem, which is why I had no desire to divorce my husband but my fantasy world was every bit as loony as "soul mate" world.)

Did you know it is a biological fact that the feelings of "falling in love" (properly called infatuation since it's not real love) do not last for more than three years? After that you need to deliberately re-create that feeling by systematically and deliberately doing all those things in courtship that you used to do without thinking about it. Real love is not butterflies in your stomach. Real love is building a life together.

3- Remind yourself how much your husband must freaking love you to death to not to run screaming to a divorce lawyer. Even if he threatens divorce pay more attention to his actions than his words.

4- Focus on trying to help him heal and you won't have as much time to think about the OM.

5 - Remind yourself that although recovery can be long (1-2 years, depending) it will happen eventually and result in a much closer bond than you could ever have with someone else. Your spouse is the one who knows you better than anyone else (especially once you stop hiding crap from him).

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Ha, I just read your husband's thread, so I'll add one more thing.

GET OFF FACEBOOK! Since FB accounts are hard to delete permanently, try doing this after deleting the FB account. Not sure if it works, but let's see. Go into your email and change the password. Then get a new email and tell all your legitimate friends and family what the new email is. Get rid of your old email account that was associated with FB. Use email or phone to keep in touch with your legit friends and family. You can't rationally argue that saving your marriage is not worth this relatively minor inconvenience after all the pain you caused.

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Hi Tank,

I'm a technician.

This is not about you, your circumstances but only the condition wherein you find yourself.

Do you want to hear a technical answer?


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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Imagine:
Sure, hit me with a technical answer.
My husband and I met w/ a therapist last week. We both like him. Still taking it one day at a time.

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Originally Posted By: Marshmallow
Tank's BH is here, MF...

HIS THREAD


Thanks Marsh...

tank, all I needed to do was read your husband's first post on Dec. 6th...

Listen to me and listen to me good...THIS is why you are so depressed and things are so bad...you must get off FB. "One-sided contact" (you looking at his FB page, or mutual friend's FB pages...or hearing ANYTHING ABOUT HIM) will keep you in this horrible place.

I cannot stress this enough, we see this all the time around here...you will stay ridiculously foggy while there is ANY SORT OF CONTACT, even one-sided.

tanks's husband...please know how serious this is and how you must set some SERIOUS BOUNDARIES about NC. tank needs to get off of FB and not be in contact with ANYONE who knows the OM.

You will never move out of this mess otherwise.


Me,BW - 42; FWH-46
4 kids
D-Day #s1 and 2~May 2006
D-Day #3~Feb.27, 2007 (we'd been in a FR)
Plan B~ March 3 ~ April 6, 2007

In Recovery and things are improving every day. MB rocks. smile
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Tank, my 18 month A was with my HS boyfriend. We went out for 5 years when we were teenagers and had the A 30 after not seeing each other for 30 years.

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Ok, here we go.

My A was in 2002. If you read my first post which is in my sig line you will have read my history so there is no need to re-post it here.

When the OM dumped me I thought I was going to die from grief. I know everyone means well here, saying focus on other things etc etc but I actually know what you are going through. No, it's no palatable to BS's and it stinks but, you know something, Dr Harley actually acknowledges this "grief" period and calls it withdrawal. I was/am very, very lucky, I have a wonderful H and, even though he hated it with every fibre of his being, he acknowledged my withdrawal.

You may see that I have 8000+ posts on MB. A lot of those posts were asking how, how, how I could get the feelings back for my H. A lot of them are also silliness and humour, because of the wonderful, wonderful people I have met here.

My H and I have now been married for 35 years. We are happy we are normal we are in love. We had been married 28 years when I had my A. I always remember a wonderful FWW named Susan who wrote a simple post to me when I was at my foggiest. She said "you will get through this. One day it will all be in the past." At the time I thought "oh yeah, easy for you to say - not going to happen." But I also thought, yes, we will get through this. Susan is proof positive.

You have NO idea where I've been and how far I've come in my 8,000+ posts. You have NO idea how many posts reduced to me tears of self pity but also to tears of guilt and shame.

These people were my lifeline, my sanity - I love them all - I owe them more than words can ever, ever come close to acknowledging.

I've been you tank and I'm out the other side.

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I also want to add that even though I am on a hiatus from MB, something moved me to write to you. It's been a long time since a WW or a WH has moved me to do that.

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lol, I'm adding and adding here.

Glove Oil, Mrs W and I both had A's with old flames. I know what you're saying - that the way to fix things doesn't change whatever the circumstances and this is absolutely correct but, unfortunately old flames really do burn the brightest. Shirley Glass acknowledged it and I think that the "history" with old flames puts the A into a whole different, very dangerous category.

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Tank:

R.E.B.T. very helpful in changing compulsive negative thinking

You can buy books but all required info is online, really.

It takes a few weeks/months- but you will be surprised.

Also- anxiety/AD's may help stop the obsessing thoughts.

Hope this helps.


Me; W 46
Him; H 46

2 girls
DD19
DD16
Dated/Married total 28 years.
..I am learning and working on myself.
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Stop focusing on anything about OM.
You will stay stuck, if you choose to.

This thread will be helpful.

Managing Triggers by Mark


M'd 22 years
BW-me
D-Day 08/08 LTA


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Hi Tank,

Technical details of a love affair.

When you meet someone and have your emotional needs met you make a decision that this person can be a suitor. Even their smell can persuade you that they will be suitable. Your body releases phenylethylamine which permits Dopamine and Norepinephrine to be injected into your system.

Dopamine will give a feeling of bliss. This is the "pleasure chemical". Norepinephrine will raise your blood flow, your pupils will dilate and your short term memory will improve. Your focus will be on your intended suitor.

If you orgasmed with your person of choice, the chemicals oxytcin, vasopressin and endorphins are released. This causes attachment. Ironically, the more attachment = less sex.

Now this is what your husband is dealing with:
A married relationship runs out of phenylethylamine after two years use. You lose the rose tint in your glasses. The phenylethylamine in an affair can last almost indefinitely.
That's right, your husband takes the flack while the suitor flies brightly in the wind.

What you are experiencing is a genuine drug withdrawal. We kid you not when we say that you are an addict. Long term association with "soulmate" makes it more difficult to subtract. You have developed "attachment". The crying and unhappiness is also genuine withdrawal.

Let us review:
You made a choice to associate with this person while you were married. Bad call. This why you are now in withdrawal.
Your husband is also deprived. His betrayal has been equated as more devastating than your death (death and divorce are on the worst end of the trauma scale). You can quickly recover. His recovery is not anywhere that short.

While you are missing OM, H's trauma is marginalized. Think about it:- How would you cope if OM were doing the same to you right now.

The technical stuff seems far remote to where you are right now. My sympathy.

Lots of sex with your husband will help both of you!

Google "Chemistry of love" -Howitworks for more details.


But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams -Yeats
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So, you now see that you are not alone. Didn't do the old flame thing but my A was 20months.

Like KiwiJ, I came here begging for help when i was so miserable and sad about losing OM. I got some great advice.

The thing that worked best for me was the visualisation of a stop sign the second he entered my head, that would then give me time to change my thoughts to something nice about my H. And that was sooooo hard aswell - to think something nice about H after I had been demonising him to justify my A for such a long time.

Little things:

Make a list about all the good things about your H, however tiny. Keep reading it and reading it and then if oM pops up visualise that stop sign.

It will pass. Just keep away from FB

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Quote:
Mrs W and I both had A's with old flames. I know what you're saying - that the way to fix things doesn't change whatever the circumstances and this is absolutely correct but, unfortunately old flames really do burn the brightest. Shirley Glass acknowledged it and I think that the "history" with old flames puts the A into a whole different, very dangerous category.
Thanks, Kiwi --
I don't have any experience upon which to disagree with what you're saying, and I haven't read Shirley Glass. I wouldn't touch any of my ex-GFs with a 40-foot pole, but I know that it's not that way for everyone. (In fact, I learned, during my A., that before my OW was into her A with me, she'd carried on an affair with her ex-BF from high school... so I've seen that it happens.) But I just am skeptical that it necessarily makes recovery more challenging, or less so. Sometimes the flame that burns hottest is the one that's nearest-- and re: these long-ago exes who are hundreds or thousands of miles away, I'll posit that an affair with a more local OP of more recent acquaintance can be just as compelling or more compelling to a wayward. For instance, my OW decided she wasn't getting enough of her needs filled by her ex's occasional business-trip layovers, since he was down in Florida, and that's when she started coming on to me. [Digression & Disclaimer: I fullly appreciate that my A wasn't my OW's fault, but rather, 100% mine.]

Anyway, sorry, hope that wasn't too much of a t/j -- I think the bottom line for tank is that she needs to buckle down, do the tough work that recovery requires, attend to her H's needs, & get communicating with him about her own needs. She doesn't have the luxury of succumbing to any temptation (which I perceive to be in play here -- apologies if I'm mistaken) to seek excuses in the fact that her OP is a longtime flame. I know well enough from my own bad behavior that sin hurts the sinner among others, but this is no time for the indulgence of a self-pity party. Her husband is the one who deserves 100% of her pity.


Me: FWH, 50
My BW: Trust_Will_Come, 52, tall, beautiful & heart of gold
DD23, DS19
EA-then-PA Oct'08-Jan'09
Broke it off & confessed to BW (after OW's H found out) Jan.7 2009
Married 25 years & counting.
Grateful for forgiveness. Working to be a better husband.
"I wear the chain I forged in life... I made it link by link, and yard by yard" ~Jacob Marley's ghost, A Christmas Carol
"Do it again & you're out on your [bum]." ~My BW, Jan.7 2009
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