Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 7 of 16 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 15 16
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
TheRoad,

I appreciate your attention to my situation. Getting rid of FB (plus 2 other FB clones she uses to contact old schoolmates which I do not have access to) is gonna be a battle royale as she really values the friends she has on there, old college ones and others. She will flat out refuse for now and I hesitate to even bring it up as I think she will see it as me being controling and a big LB. I realize it is needed for transparency. I will discuss with Steve tomorrow. I have a call with Steve every 2 weeks since WW stopped the weekly calls.

It is really a crappy situation. The FB/FB ocntact is what enabled the A to grow, and she is still glued to that stuff for talking with her old friends. She works remotely for another old college friend that is also part of that group. Frankly, it only really got better when we were in the US for a month w/o FB and her computer. We made progress, lots of UAT and then SF started at the end of that month. I feel like we are now spinning our wheels. I won the battle on getting her to stay at home, but the battle is on to see if she will recommitt to the marriage.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
Yeah, you're driving her away with your beta tactics. So the agreement (in her mind) is that you financially support her. She will deny you sex and disrespect you. When the kids turn 18 she will leave you.

No one seems to understand. She is feeling trapped. Why? because she does not value your marriage. I guess if the goal is for her to use you till the kids are 18, well its a goal? You see she never lost anything of value (she didn't lose you, you have proven that).

Isn't it amazing that the little you pushed back, changed her attitude somewhat. Imagine if you really set boundaries, and stuck with them. You have tried a beta style so far. How is that working for you? Try going alpha and see where it goes. If she will not join you in counseling with Steve, what exactly do you try now?

If you want to try an alpha approach. First off tell her that if she thinks that you are staying in a loveless marriage with her for the next 15 years, she is high. Next tell her that the comfort and security you provide to her is no reason to stay together and that she would be using you. Not gonna happen. Tell her you are separating accounts. The only one here being controlled by the other, is you.

Its time you stop saying "you are my wife", and to start saying "I deserve better" You have tried your approach for months. She has used you for sex, money, security. Let her experience the consequences of what she has done. What do you have to lose? A cheating, lying, manipulative, selfish drama queen.




Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,786
They are constantly keeping her triggered and the longer this continues the more abuse and cruelty you will receive.

Friends/family supportive of adultery have a value system that isn't comparable to our system ... this gets them more and more entrenched with crossing boundaries ... if a friend even once encourages her WW to lie to her husband ... then you know as time continues the behavior will become more and more lax ... one lie here another lie there ... socializing with male friends here ... emotionally attaching to them there.

Friends/family supportive of adultery do not have proper boundaries in place to protect anyone and it turns into a deceptive and dishonest relationship.

The goal is to surround your WW with people of a higher level value system, so she can climb the ladder and live by those values.

She is still in an active affair if she is constantly triggered. She is likely being triggered on a fantasy that she would like to create. The lovebank of OM is high and until she is NC with anything that will trigger her it will remain high. This is dangerous because she may start to go out and look for another man who can recreate that high again.

It has to be NC for life on everything related to the adultery.

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 5,860
Forgot to even if WW won't you should still session with Steve.

WW is under the same roof so keep plan A'ing and see where Steve can take you.

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
ouchthathurt,

I appreciated the feedback and thanks again for your earlier posts way back when. I 100% control all finances (her decision early in our marriage, not my idea) except the small income she has from a part-time job and she uses that regularly to help pay some expenses. All retirement accounts are primarily in my name and I have control. She can't leave unless she either abandons the kids and/or she goes and lives with her mom absconding with the kids. This is why she has never left and in her WW mind she is justifying staying in the marriage because that other life w/o my support is not so attractive and the kids want to be in their home. Earlier I refused to talk any kind of seperation or support and told a D willl be hell and I will use every last $ I have to fight paying her anything and to get 100% custody, and we will never speak again or be friends in any way. She has never worked except part time since we married (my job requires periodic relocations to new countries and/or cities), so her options are limited.

That being said, plan A has had its ups and downs. Things have gotten better when we were both using Steve. Now we go back down the roller coaster. I hear what you are saying on boundries and stating my terms. I will work on this and also discuss this idea with Steve tomorrow.

I agree with you that I have not pushed back except in a measured way as best as I can w/o LBs. I try to be matter of fact and w/o emotion when I speak about MB. Last night with the wine I got too caught up in it and also have lately started to have expectations. These are hurting my plan A it seems.

As I understand you are advocating 2 things: setting higher boundries and also going to plan B. My understanding is that plan B is for an active affair or when spouses are living apart, but I am by no means an expert on this.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
Thanks TheRoad for the advice and yes I am continuing regular calls with Steve. He has helped get us where we are and I plan to keep this up. My next one is tomorrow.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
I do not consider having self respect as either plan "A" or plan "B", I just consider it having self respect. Respect (including self) can exist without love. But love cannot live without respect.

How does she talk to you? With contempt? Sounds like.

I cannot understand how debasing yourself to your cheating mate can result in anything but contempt.

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
PrayIncessantly,

Ihanks for paying attention to my thread. I read this site daily and appreciate your advice and all the others' advice as well. I consider it an honor to get advice from you all.

Your comment on the affect of triggers seems spot on and would explain alot. I recall indiegirl saying something similar back in October when I first posted. WW is still in la la land, but the fog does regularly lift now. These triggers pull her back in. I also worry about starting to findi a new OM since she devalues our M so much right now. It is a slippery slope.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
She mainly now talks to me nicely without AOs. She will make DJs but not like before. That has really improved until I make some comment about working onthe M through Steve or her being my wife. Then she talks often with disrepect and contempt. Yesterday was really bad and the worse it has been since November (when we began using Steve). I showed neediness and she pounced on it. This morning she was friendly again. I am curious about tonight, how friendly she will be.

I hear your point on self respect. I agree.

I need to work on my responses when these M issues come up. I may be coming off as pleading without realizing it.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
Think back to your courtship. How did you act then? Did she look up to you? Was she proud to have you? Did she brag about you to others.

NOW, think, is this the way you're acting now? If not, why not? I think your wife has built up a false image of you. And you have been reinforcing it. Why don't you treat her the way you would treat anyone who disrespects you? And no more of "you're my wife" UNTIL SHE DESERVES IT. As wrong as she is, she believes that you are controlling her. When she is really controlling you.

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
ouchthathurts,

Yes, of course you're right. She did/said all those things. She had/has a good life, one different in a good way, one that I made for us with her help.

The false image is right (I am not saying I am blameless, I realize I neglected many of her ENs for too long). I can only imagine what she has said to those friends of her that are enablers, and even the ones that are not also many have marital problems and all commiserate together. Even worse was the divorced IC she went to last spring that helped her get through her depression, find her feelings that she "had always been in love with the OM" (what a load of...) and advised her to leave me for happiness! Her depression was I guess guilt from the budding EA or desire to start the PA.

Come to think of it, this is probably a trigger also since it was about this time last year she had counseling.

I see your point about reinforcing the false image. And I agree that by her actions now she does not deserve to be my wife.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
Plan A continues. She is pleasant tonight but distant.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,247
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 5,247
Blackhawk --

She is promoting that you live as roommates for the next 12 years.

I really think you need to let her know you're not interested in that. Tell her she either gets on board with fixing the marriage, or you start making plans to seperate. And that message doesn't have to come as an angry outburst -- just a statement of fact.

"Wife, I am not interested in being your roommate. Either we fix this marriage or we seperate. My choice is to fix this. If you refuse to participate in that, I am not interested in staying married to you."





Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
Lexxxy,

Thanks for your attention to my thread. I hesitate giving her ultimatums. Yet I understand that ultimately this is going to be the question: all in or all out.

I have thought that with a good plan A, I can help her see value in our marriage as she becomes less foggy. I have not yet succeeded judging from her words this last week, although I do think I have moved the game piece forward the last few months, and I have been chipping away at her resolve. regardless, the fogginess is still there though much of the time. She is still wayward.

I have been told by many, including Steve, that the OM death has complicated this. Things will take longer.

I will discuss your suggestion with Steve tomorrow. Thanks for your advice.




Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
G
Member
Offline
Member
G
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,964
Blackhawk,

I have been told by many, including Steve, that the OM death has complicated this. Things will take longer.

Yea your remedies against OM are rather limited, and OM is now a martyr since he never maturing into a POS.

I actually went to OM4's funeral, to be honest to size up his family, but didn't allow my W to go to the reception afterward.

My W refuses to allow me to ask his family members if he was a lifelong philanderer. Not sure what constitutes just compensation when the OM dies without a confrontation.

God Bless
Gamma

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
Gamma,

Thanks for your post. The martyr issue is frustrating and leaves I guess the whole soulmate thing hanging on alive in her mind. I am not sure if the OM in my situation was philandering but would not surprise me. I am not sure why his first marriage broke up (he was on his second marriage).


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
O
Member
Offline
Member
O
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 843
Gotta tell you, sick of the soulmate thing (no offence). The only mate to my soul is Jesus. Been married 32 years. Her's is the first face I want to see in the morning and the last at night. But the "soulmate" thing seems to be the biggest BS excuse. If your "soulmate" causes you to sin by breaking your vows and lying and cheating and rutting. That's not the kind of soulmate anyone needs. The only creature that advocates that kinda soulmate is satan.

Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,820
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,820
Hi Blackhawk,

I am sorry that your wife is still stuck where she is, it must be frustrating, I have to agree with Lexxy, I think enough time has gone by that she should have let go of her fantasy man.......
Maybe she needs to feel what losing you and her family feels like........right now she knows you are in her pocket whenever she needs some comfort......
It is to bad you can't find some awful things about that OM that she could accidently find and realize he isn't perfect..........
Talk to Steve and follow what he thinks is best.....this is a tough one for sure......
but not impossible..........
just a bump in the road.......get back on your plan and restart.........


BW 56
WH 57
Married 25 years, live together for 2, dated 2 years before that.....
DS 23, DS 25
D-Day Nov 23/09
NC Mar 1/10
Working on Recovery
Grateful for finding Marriage Builders
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
ouchthathurt,

Yes, the soulmate garbage is crap and unfrotunately typical it seems.


Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
B
Member
OP Offline
Member
B
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 277
Thanks for your post Jessi. I spoke with Steve and basically he said just keep plan A'ing. He thinks the v-day thing and aftermath was an anomaly and registered in her mind as too initimate given where we stand so her 'radar' went off and walls came up. He made a point that we can only go as fast as the slowest person and we have to keep encouraging and motivating WW at the pace she is confortable with. The love note was too much too soon and set off her alarms and she has pulled away again.

It is frustrating and like chutes and ladders because we got high up the board and then fall down again.

I need to fine tune my messaging with her about our progress when working together on MB and be sure no to come across as pressuring or pleading (I am guilty of a bit of this after the love note was not received well).

He is against giving any ultimatums at this point, and instead wants me to focus on respectful but firm persuasion, while keeping focused on plan A and meeting her ENs. Things are getting through to her regardless, so keep chipping away.





Me: BH
Marriage: 22 years
2 kids
D-Day 5 Sept 2011
EA w OM started Fall 2010, PA w OM Spring 2011, OM died end Sept 2011

Page 7 of 16 1 2 5 6 7 8 9 15 16

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 1,079 guests, and 45 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Mike69, petercgeelan, Zorya, Reyna98, Nofoguy
71,829 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5