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Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
Just got off the phone with Joyce. We will be on the show again this coming Tuesday, July 16th.


That's great, FTF! We'll be listening!


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: Northwood8900
How is the UA time coming?


It sucks right now. The only thing scheduled this week is our date on Saturday.

Last edited by FightTheFight; 07/11/13 11:08 AM.

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And what is your plan to resolve this deficiency?


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Originally Posted By: Northwood8900
And what is your plan to resolve this deficiency?



Get my monthly paycheck tomorrow.


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Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
Originally Posted By: Northwood8900
And what is your plan to resolve this deficiency?



Get my monthly paycheck tomorrow.


Sorry, that sounded wrong. What I mean is we have been pretty low on cash for the last half of the month. In addition, the kids bedtimes have crept into our evening hours. Both need to be resolved.


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Hey, no worries. Kids and money can make things more complicated to work through.

What I should have said is that something has to change, and that change may not be very convenient, but we usually find ways to make things happen if we really want them to.

Make sense?

And this is not me trying to judge your priorities. I just think that, if you want this to happen, then more radical changes and steps may need to be taken to get this train moving.


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Oops!

Last edited by LifetimeLearner; 07/11/13 08:25 PM. Reason: Wrong thread. Doh!

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You are on the right track, but I would add two things.

Obviously the marriage wasn't so hot for your wife either, so instead of simply trying to avoid that pain, you want to create a marriage that is not painful for either of you. But more than that. Avoiding pain isn't enough. It has to be something you want and will die to defend.

Second, you want to model something for your children to follow for when they get married.

Of course you are talking about what motivates you. Maybe what others are thinking or feeling really don't matter. Wait, you ask that.

However, to sell MB, I think you have to sell the idea that it's not just about avoiding an affair, it's about having a marriage you want to be in.

For what ever reason, she doesn't really want to be there at this point. Part of it is her doing. Part is yours. The only way to avoid the preferred path is for both you to get on board with MB.

I suspect you are more on-board than her. So your job is to show her how adhering to MB builds that fulfilling marriage she doesn't currently experience.

Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
I've been thinking today about what motivates me to want to work on this marriage. I think that logically I want to be a part of my children's lives full time. But hey, I can get that by just going along back to how things always were. We can live together like roommates and I'll have all the access I want to my children.

So why go through all of the trouble of trying to get my wife to love me? Why go through all the trouble of EPs and POJA and PORH and all of that?

It's simple. I know the pain of infidelity and I never want to feel it again. EVER! It is absolutely the worst thing that has ever happened to me. And the pain lasts a long time. YEARS! Just the threat of experiencing that pain again makes me want to have a loving passionate marriage or none at all. It's not worth the risk to live with someone who is not in love with you and who is not willing to protect you from the kind of emotional harm that comes with infidelity. Heck, even willing isn't enough! Motivated is more like it.

Promises to never do it again are not enough. There must be change. Without change it is too risky.

But people have to be motivated to change. My motivation comes from the constant reminder of how much it hurts. But a WS can't feel that. So what highly motivates a WS or FWS? What lights a fire in there belly?

Last edited by Enlightened_Ex; 07/12/13 11:34 AM.
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Has anyone commented on this observation: he is posting in Recovery, while she is posting in Surviving an Affair?

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Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
Originally Posted By: Northwood8900
And what is your plan to resolve this deficiency?



Get my monthly paycheck tomorrow.


Sorry, that sounded wrong. What I mean is we have been pretty low on cash for the last half of the month. In addition, the kids bedtimes have crept into our evening hours. Both need to be resolved.



I know how you feel. I just recently went from a schedule containing 2 jobs, 6 days a weak, a minimum of 54 hours each week to 2 16-hour days, and just the one job. Cash is pinched...


However, I'm sure that if you looked, and if you brainstormed, that you could find many cheap-to-free activities you would BOTH enjoy.

I suggested a handful to your wife; she had stated that you both enjoy bowling (my wife and I do, too... we're both terrible, but it's fun competing with each other).


"An expert is a person who has made all the mistakes that can be made in a very narrow field." - Niels Bohr

"Smart people believe weird things because they are skilled at defending beliefs they arrived at for non-smart reasons." - Michael Shermer

"Fair speech may hide a foul heart." - Samwise Gamgee LOTR
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EE,

I think that's because there would have been no recovery without FGF stepping forward, and the fact that FTF never fell out of love with his WW.

His WW on the other hand was on her way to a second affair which FTF stopped at the texting stage. I still feel his WW is witholding truths to save FTFs feelings. ***EDIT***

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Toujours; 07/12/13 04:46 PM. Reason: TOS disrespect
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**EDIT**

Is she comfortable in withdrawal?

She doesn't seem to want to enter the state of conflict, but as Dr Harley says, (IIRC) you have to leave withdrawal, safely navigate conflict to reach intimacy.

She comes across as being most comfortable in withdrawal.

Originally Posted By: Gamma
EE,

I think that's because there would have been no recovery without FGF stepping forward, and the fact that FTF never fell out of love with his WW.

His WW on the other hand was on her way to a second affair which FTF stopped at the texting stage. I still feel his WW is witholding truths to save FTFs feelings.***EDIT***

God Bless
Gamma

Last edited by Toujours; 07/12/13 04:49 PM. Reason: TOS disrespect
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Originally Posted By: Enlightened_Ex


She comes across as being most comfortable in withdrawal.


Complacency?

Laziness?

Cake-eating?

Hopelessness?

Who knows, ***EDIT*** Perhaps he is, and that's his prerogative, but they, surely, must get to the point where they realize that the current situation is not tenable or desirable and want, no, demand that change occur?

I don't know. I've been there, done that, and eventually just got fed up with being fed up. Maybe they aren't there, yet.

But someone needs to make a move before this oldest child models this behavior in his own relationships ten or fifteen years from now.

Last edited by Toujours; 07/12/13 04:48 PM. Reason: TOS disrespect

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As a woman I thought being willing to schedule SF for three nights a weeks when she doesn't enjoy it was a huge sign that she is trying. I think FTF must be used to DJ alot, from the coffee incident.... it is hard to love somebody who is constantly criticizing you.

FC is definitely not being completely honest, but sometimes you get tired complaining about the same old things.

I'm not sure FTF is cleaning up his side of the street very well. I was particularly struck by the comment that Prisca made, that the husband is the one that drives recovery, whether a BH or WH. FTF really needs to woo his wife.


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Originally Posted By: BetrayedP
As a woman I thought being willing to schedule SF for three nights a weeks when she doesn't enjoy it was a huge sign that she is trying. I think FTF must be used to DJ alot, from the coffee incident.... it is hard to love somebody who is constantly criticizing you.

FC is definitely not being completely honest, but sometimes you get tired complaining about the same old things.

I'm not sure FTF is cleaning up his side of the street very well. I was particularly struck by the comment that Prisca made, that the husband is the one that drives recovery, whether a BH or WH. FTF really needs to woo his wife.


You are right. It is not fair to say she is just laying back and doing nothing. It is true I could always do more.

I'll only say this. It kind of feels like being on a team with someone who says "OK. I'll play, but there is no way we are going to win".

And I don't want to be down on her. She is amazing in a lot of ways. She is not a deadbeat or lazy person at all. She does a lot for all of us in this family. I recognize and appreciate that.

Last edited by FightTheFight; 07/13/13 03:28 PM.

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With all the pressure put on her from some posters here to pretend to be joyous of sex for her husband's sake, no wonder she may feel safer in withdrawal. Even though it's not FTF doing it, it probably still negatively affects her.

I have not read every page, but it appears that maybe you, FTF, aren't putting pressure on her. Is this so?

This reminds me of Dr. Harley talking about snails. If you poke their head when they come out of the shell, they will withdraw back into their shell.

How do you show your appreciation of her?


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Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
I'll only say this. It kind of feels like being on a team with someone who says "OK. I'll play, but there is no way we are going to win".


I've got to tell you I've been in that same despairing situation. Her love bank is telling her how she feels about you, and it is totally unaware that things can ever change. The love bank tends to have no track of time. It says "This is how I feel about FTF. This is probably how I've always felt about FTF. And this is probably how I always will feel about FTF."

That's one reason why in an active affair waywards rewrite history. More often than not, when somebody says "I was never in love with my wife/husband," the reason why is that the love bank currently tells them someone else wins, and is telling them that the way they feel about their spouse is the way they've always felt.

I am hoping Dr. Harley can give you and her both some hope that even though she feels this way now, it can change. Prisca told me essentially the same thing. She even told me at one point "even though Marriage Builders is a great idea, and will probably work for anybody, it won't work for us." The love bank is a strange irrational thing, and hearing what your true balance is is incredibly emotional.

But I am here to tell you that when you make love bank deposits, typically neither you nor she realizes a difference. There is no gradual change. The "like" band may range from 100 to 900 love units, and 895 may feel no different from 105. That's a lot of work to do with no visible change. But topping over the threshold makes all the difference in the world.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: BetrayedP
As a woman I thought being willing to schedule SF for three nights a weeks when she doesn't enjoy it was a huge sign that she is trying.


That is how I am taking it. We have definitely seen a lot of women here who would be unwilling to do that, so I've seen that as a very good sign.

Quote:
I'm not sure FTF is cleaning up his side of the street very well.


I think the main thing that is needed is time. Consistent 15 hours a week. If for some reason you can't physically get out of the house, for goodness' sake, dress up, cook together, do something that you find fun, and TALK, TALK, TALK. Don't just sit in your pajamas or sweats and watch TV.

But definitely disrespect has got to be eliminated, too. Each ding to the love bank balance means rework that you have to do later.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted By: markos
Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
I'll only say this. It kind of feels like being on a team with someone who says "OK. I'll play, but there is no way we are going to win".


I've got to tell you I've been in that same despairing situation. Her love bank is telling her how she feels about you, and it is totally unaware that things can ever change. The love bank tends to have no track of time. It says "This is how I feel about FTF. This is probably how I've always felt about FTF. And this is probably how I always will feel about FTF."

That's one reason why in an active affair waywards rewrite history. More often than not, when somebody says "I was never in love with my wife/husband," the reason why is that the love bank currently tells them someone else wins, and is telling them that the way they feel about their spouse is the way they've always felt.


I left out a very important point I intended to make. This is also why recovery is possible. When you are in romantic love, your love bank tells you something akin to "it has always been this way, and always will be this way." It may not be factually true, but it feels great! This is a wonderful thing to have with one's spouse. Love truly covers a multitude of sins.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 17 years, who is a beautiful angel.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

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So get more scheduled.

Or at the very least, start brainstorming ideas. What has she said she wants to do that you haven't yet made happen yet?

Not really interested in why you think you can't. Focus on what you can accomplish and how to eliminate any obstacles.

Originally Posted By: FightTheFight
Originally Posted By: Northwood8900
How is the UA time coming?


It sucks right now. The only thing scheduled this week is our date on Saturday.

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