Discovery Day was June 1. Email from my boss accidentally ended up in my husband's email box. Affair was only 6 weeks long, but my boss had been working subtly on me for years. Not an excuse, just an explanation. Since the Discovery Day, I have not seen, spoken to, or heard from him. My husband and I have met with our pastor, a counselor, and have spent hours talking this through. We have good and bad days. I am finding it almost impossible to forgive myself for the pain I caused this wonderful man I'm married to.

If you have advice for me, I would appreciate it.

You're a WW (wayward wife)...are you your boss' other woman? Is he married? Does his wife know? You should post on surviving an affair, not recovery (yet) and I suggest you focus on your marriage by identifying yourself as a WW, but be honest about your role as an OW, too.

Were you fired from your job? Or did you quit?

Hi Eureka-
Welcome. You are the "Wayward Spouse" to your husband. You are only the other woman if your boss is married.
You might want to move your post to the Forum -" Surviving an Affair"- as this is for people who are dealing with all the initial problems of discovery.

As a betrayed spouse myself- the only advise i can give you - is to stop focusing on forgiving yourself right now- and work on helping your husband heal from the pain you have caused him.
This is the most painful experience that humans can experience.
He will need you to give him constant reassurance of how much you love him and what a mistake the affair was.
Buy and start reading "Surviving an Affair" by Dr. Harley and read all about his program on this website.
Good Luck,
Sunflower

Do you and the OM still work for the same company?
Does the OMW know?
Have you sent a NC letter to the OM?
How have you established NC?

I admit that I don't know what all the initials mean in the posts I've been reading, but since the person I had the affair with is married, I actually am the OW.

My husband and I have spent hours talking about this experience. We've read as much as we can stand on the topic and I have tried to be as honest as I can about everything that happened. I often don't want to be honest, but know I have to be. He told me this week that he is satisfied that he has heard enough and that my willingness to share means more to him at this point than any more details.

I did not lose my job. I am not sure, but my boss may have. He has not been back at the workplace since about a week after the Discovery Day (I went away with my husband to attend a conference with him right after). There was a sexual harassment investigation and I received a letter of reprimand. My boss, I was told, will be demoted if he returns to the workplace, and will not be in the same building as I am.

I am still in shock that I did such a thing. I was not aware that I was unhappy with my marriage and then, it seemed, found myself in an affair with someone I didn't even like for awhile. It's a long story, but he admitted to me after the affair started that he had been trying to be my "friend" for several years. I don't know why I finally sucuumbed, but I did. It went from emotional to physical very quickly, but fortunately God intervened before I actually slept with him. My husband received the email from my boss that was supposed to go to me. Neither of us have any clue as to why that happened except by divine intervention. I regard the Day of Discovery as the Day of Deliverance for me.

It was difficult telling our adult children. My coworkers do not really know what happened and I had to tell them to stop talking to me about the boss, which I know left them wondering. I did tell one of my coworkers the details so that she could help me if he ever showed up unannounced in the building. His office has yet to be cleaned out which causes me some stress, and not knowing what his status is has also caused anxiety.

My husband initially told me that any contact with my boss would mean our marriage would be over. A couple of weeks later, he told me that he had lied and that even if I had another affair, he would never want me to leave, that he loved me too much to ever lose me.

So, I am doing what I can do to make him feel secure. I encourage him to track my movements using the GPS in my cellphone. I encourage him to drop by my workplace whenever he wants to. I leave him notes when I go for walks in the morning before he wakes up. I am trying to be what I should have been all along--a great wife who looks to keeping her husband feeling loved and secure.

However, as I said before, even though my husband has forgiven me,and my pastor assured me of God's forgiveness, I still am so ashamed of what I did. I had a great marriage (31 years), a beautiful home, 3 great children (all adults, one with autism), and a job I loved. My affair jeopardized everything. If this affair was God's way of bringing me closer to Him, it was successful, but I grieve for the peace that I felt just a few months ago that I feel I will never feel again. I always thought I was a pretty decent person but now I know better.

Welcome, Eureka.
Before I advise you, I don't want to mis-assume what your goal(s) is/are.
Are you looking to save your marriage & make it better than it was before?

If so, I'm here to tell you it can be done, and perhaps can offer some guidance. I've been in your shoes as the cheating spouse. There's lots I could tell you, not just from the standpoint of someone who read it in a book, but as someone who lived it. (And there are also a lot of people here who were in the betrayed spouses' shoes, and their perspectives can be immensely valuable in understanding better how your husband may see things). But for us to advise you better, it would help us to know some basic info:
--how the affair came about?
--why do you think it came about?
--is the other man married and, if so, is his wife aware of the affair?
--what was & has been your husband's reaction since finding out?
--what steps you've taken so far to help allow your husband to feel emotionally safe with you?

There's more to unpack, but let's hear about those for starters.

Just a quick follow-up: my boss's wife was informed several days after my day of discovery. She emailed me and my husband responded to her email. She claimed that women simply find her husband irresistible and that this wasn't the first time and that it was basically all my fault.

The affair came about gradually. He had been spending more and moe time hanging around me at work, but being my supervisor, could find ways to justify it. The breaking point for me was when his daughter in law became seriously ill and he was out on extended leave helping care for her and her son's children. He began texting me updates about her status which migrated into updates about his own status and the texts became an almost constant thing. I should have stopped him then, but felt like he was under a lot of stress and thought his texts were kind of like keeping a blog and didn't really have much to do with me. When I did see him again, I hugged him and then every day when I saw him, I hugged him which eventually led to kissing and some other physical stuff.

How was I handling my real life with my husband? My husband says that he was pretty unaware that anything was going on except that I seemed a little distant. I was struggling to be a good wife and also doing quite the opposite when I was out of his sight. Every Sunday I begged God to help me and then when Monday rolled around, I was hugging and kissing the wrong man. I consider the affair to have been six weeks long, but in reality, I was probably involved in an emotional affair long before that , but wouldn't admit it to myself. Of course I enjoyed his attention--he was the boss in a workplace full of women. We really did work well together and planned things that benefited everyone at the office. The affair, however, was a disaster from day one.

I am thankful that it is likely that I will never see him again. I am uncomfortable knowing that there is someone out there who was actively lusting after me (he proposed we get a hotel room and I had managed to resist but if the affair had persisted, I have no doubt I would have caved in). I think I was in love with him, but now feel nothing for him. My husband is puzzled because all the infidelity sites say I should be in a deep depression missing this person, but I'm not. My grief is about the harm I've caused my husband (and perhaps my boss's wife) but not about him.

Eureka-
Your boss's wife is blaming you bc it is too difficult for her to blame both you and her husband.

You need to establish NO CONTACT with the boss. You need to write a letter to him stating that you will never speak to him or see him again. Your husband needs to read it and you need to mail it together.

This is the first step to healing after an affair for both of you. Dr. Harley says that the wayward spouse can NEVER see their affair partner again- even if this means changing jobs.

Also - no matter what you husband says- it would just cause him extra pain and worry if you saw the other man again.
Sunflower

Hi Eureka, welcome to Marriage Builders. It sounds like you have done all the right things so far that will set the stage for recovery. You have told your H the truth, ensured the OM's wife knows the truth and have stopped working with the OM.

Can you send your husband here?

The only red flag I see here is if the OM returns, you won't be able to recover your marriage. If you do see him, it will set your progress back to Day 1 of recovery and the recovery will stop. This is why no contact for life is absolutely essential to the recovery of your marriage. If you do remain in contact with him - even at work - your H should consider separation. We don't know of any marriage that recovered when the affairees still saw each other, but we have numerous examples of affairs that continued this way, many leading to divorce. Even the cases where the affairs didn't resume, the recovery stopped because the affairee went right back into the fog.

And I will explain why. An affair is an addiction very much like alcoholism or drug addiction. In an affair, every contact, whether it be in person, on the phone, email, or even looking at each other's facebook page triggers the feelings that led to the affair. It is the equivalent of an alcoholic taking a drink and sitting in the bar. The first drink is the trigger and eventually it leads to another binge.

That is what happens with ANY contact, no matter how innocent it seems. Even seeing him in the hallway or seeing his emails will be a trigger that will prevent recovery. Those feelings you once had for him can and will come back if any contact resumes. Not even changing the name of the contact to "professional contact" will prevent the fog from coming back. So, if you are tempted to try and work at the same company again, let me disabuse you of that idea quick.

A betrayed husband called Dr Harley about this very issue recently and here is the radio clip - the husband couldn't figure out WHY his marriage would not recover: radio clip <----please play this for your husband.

So that is the first issue I would suggest you address with your husband. Have a plan in place in case he does come back. Plan to leave the company. No job is worth losing your marriage. No job is worth hurting your husband like that again.

Secondly, most marriages do not recover from adultery. Most stay together and limp along in a crippled state of the pre-affair marriage. They are more vulnerable to an affair AFTER the affair than before it. That is why it is so imperative to transform your marriage and create a romantic relationship again. Ending the affair is only STEP ONE of many steps.

That is done by EARNING your husband's forgiveness by giving him what Dr Harley calls Just Compensation. These steps are what will transform your marriage. But if unwarranted forgiveness is just handed over and the affair is swept under the rug, your marriage will worsen and your H will live with a great deal of resentment.

Dr Harley explains it here in his article "Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?"

continued here

Recovery Cliff notes in the next post...

Here is the Cliff notes version of recovery, but you should get the book Surviving an Affair and follow the program in there:

here

You mostly answered the questions I posed to you, Eureka.
However, I'd like to hear maybe a little more about:

--What was & has been your husband's reaction since finding out?

--What specific steps (list 'em here) have you taken so far to help allow your husband to feel emotionally safe with you?
For example:
- have you changed your cellphone & home phone numbers and your e-mail addresses, in order to erect an extra barrier against contact with the OM?
- have you given your husband passwords to all of your your e-mail accounts & cellphones, as a step toward living transparently vis-a-vis your husband?
- is there anyone else in your life besides your husband (and besides a counselor) who knows of the affair & who is a friend of your marriage & who may be in a position to hold you accountable for your boundaries?
- have you & your husband committed to spend at least 15 hours (minimum) of "undivided attention" time with one another on a weekly basis? (Ask me more about this if you don't understand what it means.)

Not exactly as they say in the aflac commercial. Many WW can take 6 months to get over their addiction to the OM.

Many is not most.

Many a WW defogs instantly on Dday.

Again many is not most.

There is no normal on defogging as applied to individual. As an individual you and your BH are lucky that the addiction for the OM disappeared immediately.

This is why your husband is confused on this point. Nothing for him to worry about, or you.

Though rare, I personal think SOME (not all) wayward spouses in your situation (short term affair with persistent pursuing OP, praying for a way out...autistic child at home so the fantasy escape had even more allure, etc.) don't go through withdrawal but rather getting busted is a relief. It sucks and they remain vulnerable and "no contact" is a must but for some "withdrawal" is relatively mild. We don't know what the future holds for you as you may yet go through it as you did have a longer emotional affair with this individual and you may yet still see him since he's not really completely gone from your workplace (i.e.- No Contact is not firmly in place yet).

Along those lines. No Contact. You must diligently remind yourself that you don't need "closure" with this guy. It's so easy for a recently wayward spouse to justify just "one last conversation to put it all to rest" or as it's called here "closure contact" which is sometimes anything but. Sure some trying to be "former" waywards walk into closure contact with the confidence that it is really going to end and it does...but others fail. It's a gamble your marriage can't afford not to mention it's hurtful and another deliberate hurtful betrayal of your husband.

What you need to do is trouble shoot a "no contact plan" with your husband given multiple possible scenarios. You and your husband should strategize what you are to do should OM walk into your office again. What do you do if he tries to corner you for a quick conversation? What if he calls you office phone? Follows you to your car in the parking lot? Etc. I will tell you in advance it is MUCH easier to explain that you hung up at the sound of his voice or walked away without saying a word when he tried to corner you than it is for anyone (your husband) to believe you when you say "honest, we only talked for a couple minutes and I told him to leave me alone". You see...if your husband isn't there he's not going to trust that you didn't say more, that their wasn't covert planning going on or even flirtatious non-verbal eye contact or touching. Running/walking away deliberately is much more convincing than "we only talked for a minute".

OM is not deserving of final contact. He's over and done with. Your husband and his feelings are all that matter right now as you START recovery and attempt to rebuild this marriage.

Anyway...my wife and I both post here and we're a long way down the road ahead of you. We owe our marriage and recovery to this website and specifically this forum. Hope to see you here for years to come also.

Mr. Wondering

Your affair WAS NOT from God. How HE chooses to utilize this horrible mistake for His glory, will be.

Today was very difficult. I told my husband about my posts and encouraged him to read them. He was very upset that I wrote "I thught I was in love" with my boss. He says I hadn't said that before; I was sure I had. No matter, he was hurt just the same. I also felt that it was time for me to tell him EVERYTHING, something I had successfully dodged up to this point. It wasn't pretty, and he was pretty shaken by the end of the confession. I have felt all along that if I tell him everything, he will no longer love me and the marriage will be over. I know now that that isn't true, but it was a pretty scary experience.

Someone asked me what steps we have gone through. I have changed my cellphone, cancelled the email account that he used with me, taken down my Facebook page, and asked coworkers not to talk about him around me (I only mentioned this to 2 of them, but no doubt word spread). I am thinking of calling my boss's boss tomorrow and asking her when his office will be cleaned out and where he will be working. I am also going to seriously look for another job, as difficult as that will be in this economy.

My husband and I have been on two trips together, and will be taking another at the end of this week. We have been spending a lot of time together, and that has helped us both. I feel guilty that we are essentially ignoring our adult son with autism, but am hopeful that we will eventually be able to give him the time and attention he needs. He was recentlay diagnosed as possibly bipolar; however, my husband and I both feel that the distress he has exhibited is just a reflection of what's going on with his parents. He has always fed off of my emotions, and they have been off the charts the past few weeks.

Will post more later. My husband feels like today was the true Day of Discovery, so we have a lot more to work through and I appreciate having this forum to help us. Our therapist was not that helpful, and our pastor seems to have forgotten our crisis, so we feel that we are mostly on our own, as has been the case throughout most of our marriage.

Most therapists, and I bet most pastors, too, have no idea how to save a marriage after infidelity. The best solution would be to spend the money on the Marriage Builders counseling center. Sure it will seem pricey at first, but from all I have heard from the folks on this forum, they go right to the heart of the matter and will truly help you. If we had discovered MB back during my H's first infidelity and started really using MB principles, we would have had a much better marriage from years ago and saved ourselves much heartbreak later on.

Because we were both on board with MB principles, the forum folks suggested we could go with the Online Program and that's been very helpful.

Kudos for telling your betrayed husband the entire truth. He deserves to know what he needs to deal with.

Now is the time to get your BH to sign up here.
Then stay off each other's threads for the time being.
Both of you then will have a safe place to come for help and vent. Better to vent here then at each other.

This is normal. People who are in affairs often feel as though they're in love with the affair partner at the time. I did.

And this is very hard for the betrayed spouse to hear.

I think there's this societal conventional "wisdom", at least among people who haven't been touched by infidelity, that affairs are basically two people meeting up in sordid fashion at some hotel. They've got the "sordid" part right, but it's a surprise for many folks that that what leads up to that is the cultivation of emotional relationships, and an infatuation that sure feels a lot like the feeling of falling in love. But as some of us learn the hard way, infatuation isn't love, and selfishly following the infatuation & cultivating it isn't love either.

But this is a realization that often comes over time for a betrayed spouse, just as it does for a repentant wayward spouse. My wife let me know how hard it was for her to hear me say, after the affair, in recounting how I'd felt, that I had felt I was "in love" with my affair partner. She remarked "I almost would have preferred the idea of a prostitute to this." (That's a verbatim quote.)

The good news is that in time, most repentant betrayed spouses will be able to say truthfully that they realize it wasn't love after all.

Eureka, doing things to make your marriage stronger is the best thing for your son. Your marriage should always come first and that is for his benefit. In order to recover the romantic love in your marriage, Dr Harley suggests 20+ hours per week of undivided attention meeting the top 4 intimate emotional needs of affection, conversation, rec companionship and sexual fulfillment. That is time spent without kids, friends, TV, etc. That will change the dynamic in your marriage the fastest. Dr Harley said this about UA time:

"I have yet to witness a single failure (to restore the feeling of love) when I've been able to motivate a couple to meet these four emotional needs for each other." [Effective Marriage Counseling]

And I applaud you for getting all the truth out to your husband. Yes, it did put you back to Day 1, but at least now you can go forward. You are doing a good job, Eureka.

Yeah Eureka. Good job.

Hope to meet Mr. E soon.

My wife and I took a roadtrip and listened to Dr. Harley's His Needs, Her Needs on the radio [cd - audio version]

Mr. W

I also felt that it was time for me to tell him EVERYTHING, something I had successfully dodged up to this point.

Okay, taking you at your word that "EVERYTHING" was revealed and uncovered, it was most probably the worst day you and your BH have ever lived through. What it can be likened to is finally paying the bill that you had run up with every action, thought, and emotion invested in your dalliance with OM.

Now, take the time to ensure that all the pus is out of the infection. Concentrate on uncovering anything that you have not told your BH, and bring it up yourself, unsolicited. A lunch date with OM that might not yesterday have seemed salient, will have disastrous potential impact to your recovery weeks down the road. A romantic card, that you put someplace and forgot about, will be a dagger to his efforts at healing. WORK at this. Be absolutely certain that nothing exists that will trip up your journey together. Please understand that you would find detritus of innumerable "trickle-truth" incidents on this site that you do NOT want to add to.

If you really have come clean about everything, then also be comforted by the knowledge that yesterday will likely be the worst day you and BH will ever endure.

OK, I am here. Actually, I pointed this site out to my WW on Day 3 after the Discovery. And yes, yesterday was a horrible day, we were up to 2 in the morning talking, crying, and praying.

I could say more, but I need to leave now so I can meet my wife at her work for lunch.

Welcome, MrE !

You will find many, many, folks here whose only hope and goal is to support the two of you through this awful time. As one whose "post-A" marriage is incredibly grander than the "pre-A" version, I would ask you read the principles and guidances on this site, continue to take the long view of your life, and post here as often as you feel the need. As I have been known to say to other colleagues:

Eyes on the prize; eyes ALWAYS on the prize!

I have strong doubts about that this e-mail was from OMW. More like OM did know that he was busted by "email accident"(did you inform him?) and by sending you the fake e-mail did some damage control. I strongly suggest to your husband to contact OMW by phone.


Did you try to hide things from this forum too?

It�s been a long time since the last post, so all of you are owed an update.

Shortly after the last post in August, I went to see a psychiatrist who was immensely helpful. He put me on some medication, and put us in contact with a therapist who was very helpful and full supportive of MB principles. We were both on the radio show on November 7th. My wife had fully defogged by the beginning of 2012. We have been successful at establishing a romantic relationship that is better than ever before. We bought a second home in another state and we will be moving there sometime in the next year. I am no longer on medication, and our therapist discharged us a couple of months ago.

I still have issues with triggers, but that is lessening over time.

I am addicted to MB. I listen to the radio show every day, and I lurk around the forums a lot. Sometimes the content can trigger me, but the good information is worth the risk. I feel like we owe MB a lot. I have written two free mobile apps for Android and BlackBerry to support the radio show, which is my way of payback for all the help this program has afforded my marriage.

I fully believe that full recovery will take two years, but we are well on our way.

What EP's has she put in place?

Is this you guys?
Radio clips from Steve and Kathy
Segment #2
Segment #3

Not allowed to have a male supervisor - this one comes directly for Dr. Harley via the radio show. (I got her AP/former supervisor fired.)
No Facebook or any other social network.
Changed her cell phone number and keep present number private. I take all the calls for her and route them to her if need be.
I drop in on her work frequently and unannounced.
No friends of the opposite sex. She is required to report *any* conversations with the opposite sex to me, and I too, to her.
We share all email passwords.
Total transparency - we talk about everything that happens to us everyday.
We are together as much as possible, pretty much all of the time when we aren't working. The 15-hour UA rule is a slam-dunk for us. We are topping 30 hours right now.

I usually drive her to work, just so we have the time together and I can keep an eye on things. I am sure the people there wonder why I am always around, but she works in a public place so they just have to put up with me.

Yep, that's us.

With the transparency and EPs in place it sounds like you're on the right path.

How's your UA time? ETA: Sorry just went back and saw your 30 hrs. Woot woot. Good job.

Wow, this is great, mrEureka! Congratulations, you guys!

Thank you for the apps.

Bravo to you, Mr and Mrs Eureka!

Congratulations on your progress. Great news.

Thanks for your contributions of the apps. What a nice thing to do.

AM

I was thinking more about your EP inquiry, and there are a couple of ones that I failed to mention.

First, my wife is not allowed to contact a couple of her brothers. This is for the rest of her life. I don't think it necessary to go into details here, but I mention it because it shows how seriously we take this.

The other is that she is not to take substitute jobs at work. This is one that came about around two months ago. Usually, these substitute jobs are benign, but once they put her alone with a man who is a supervisor (although not where she usually works). Being transparent, she tells me all about this afterward. I trigger. I point out to her how she was depositing and receiving love units without even thinking about it. She finds out in subsequent days from things this other guy has said that I was absolutely right. So, new EP, no taking a chance that you might end up working alone with a guy, even temporarily.

Always good to read a success story!

One suggestion on the social media front: after my H's affair I did not want him on Facebook at all, esp. since that's how it all started. Lately, with my daughter away at college though, I hate that he misses out on her pics and stuff. Plus, he doesn't communicate nearly as often with his mother and sister not being on FB.

I'd read a suggestion once I thought was a great idea - to have a joint facebook page. I'm going to talk to my hubby about it because I think it's a good solution for us.

It took a couple of hundred hours to do that, but then again, look at all the time you vets spend volunteering to help others with your posts. No different. So, thank you.

A success story in process, anyway.

Before this all happened, if someone had shown me the MB materials, I would have said it was all simplistic psychobabble.

But - it - works.

That, to me, is amazing!

Ok I'm missing something. Please tell me about the apps.

Look at the sidebar of this page. See where it say "Free MB Radio App". I am responsible (if that is the right word) for all the ones except the iPhone one.

I keep remembering EPs that I left off my list.

My wife is not allowed to go to a certain local city - Posomapolis - without me being with her.

There are a bunch of individual high risk of encounter places that neither of us go to.

We GPS track each other's cell phones. It is an expected thing, and we are always to keep our phones with us.

thank you sir. Now I remember. I use them kindle, android.

That is so good about the EPs. Brother.... hmmmm good choice when it's to support your marriage.

Did you hear the show of the couple married for 38 years and the WH had an affair for 8 years? Dr. H himself said that if he didn't live by the EPs he puts in place every day he would be just like the WH. It's a good show. I posted it on Pepperband's thread about using resentment as punishment because the BW was "brow beating" the WH every day.

I heard that show. The EPs are incredibly important. They have to be dynamic. New risks emerge all the time. I will never lower my guard again. I see this as a life long necessity for my marriage.
Well, time to leave for UA.

Have fun.

Well done, Mr. and Mrs. E, well done!

Thanks, we did.
The toughest part of recovery for me is following the rule "never talk about the affair". To be honest, I feel like the best I do is an approximation. I think my MB addiction has developed over my need to obsess over the affair in a way that minimizes my actually bringing it up with my wife. I don't disagree with the rule at all; I just find it difficult. When you find yourself standing in a post-affair nuclear wasteland, totally by surprise as most BSs do, and you are driven to try to understand what happened .... There I go again - time to drop the subject.

Once you get the infomabout the affair you need and in my opinion there will always be unknowns, time to move on. And, having a remorseful wife meeting all your needs and maintaining a transparent life with you is really about as good as you can can it at this stage in your game.

You can read about plenty of people who have to work very hard to chase down spouses to break thru fog.

I am not sure exactly what is meant by "moving on". There are EPs that we have to deal with, and these are put in place to mitigate the conditions that made the affair possible. The EPs need to be updated as life conditions change. Well, how do you review and revise the EPs without even thinking about the affair? It is not possible. Can you deal with the EPs without talking about the affair? - well you can try and we do. It really comes down to what constitutes "talking about the affair". What I think needs to be totally avoiding is any sort of thing that could be considered lovebusting.

I did "move on" from my wife's prior affair 30 years ago, but we knew nothing of MB and no EPs were put in place. Now, you can argue that it took 30 years, so if nothing will happen for another 30 years, well...

I just want to do this right.

mrE,

From what I can see you are doing it right.

I heard a radio broadcast this morning from 2010 (October 21 I think) explaining to a lady how to address problems of the present without dwelling on her husband's past affair. The problems of the present in her case included: "We barely know each other, we aren't integrated; for all I know you could be having THREE affairs!"

So for extraordinary precautions, etc., you address them that way, because now you know that all couples in good marriages live this way, e.g., Dr. Harley and Joyce, who live by the same extraordinary precautions they recommend even though they have never had an affair. So, for example, if your wife were having lunches alone with a male coworker, you would address the problem of the present: "I'm not okay with you eating out with your male coworkers," as opposed to bringing up the past: "When you do this, it reminds me of your affair!"

As far as a Marriage Builders addiction, I think that's a pretty healthy thing for most husbands, as we typically need a lot of repetition to get this stuff down.

Make that October 22, 2010:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/radio_program/play_segment.cfm?sid=2305

I think the past/present/future classification is a really good way to look at this. Dr. H has said that depression is the result of fixating on the past. If you stay in the present and plan for the future, I think that defines a "recovery". I like your way of emphasizing the present in considering EPs. That is helpful.

I have a friend of mine at work who has been through multiple marriages (presently on his fourth, and this one is technically an affairiage because it resulted from a revenge affair he had after his third wife cheated on him). His advice to me early on was to make no decision that could make me more vulnerable if things didn't work out. That was horrible advice, and I ignored it. It denies the future. It also keeps you from a 100% effort at the marriage. I think you know your are in recovery when you have a plan for your future, and have taken real actions to realize that plan.

As far as a Marriage Builders addiction, I think that's a pretty healthy thing for most husbands, as we typically need a lot of repetition to get this stuff down.

DUDE! There are some times when that kind of insight can be shared with other men:

1) While gutting a 12-point buck, shot after three days of tracking
2) While enjoying smoked jerky made from said buck, having burned the first two batches
3) After hauling the pick-up out of the bog it sank into while going to retrieve said carcass and jerky

On an open thread, with females avidly reading, nodding sagely, and secretly IM'ing ("See I told you they were basically barely trained bears with furniture!") IS NOT ONE OF THEM!

HaHaHa

At least we are barely trained bears who exhibit Radical Honesty.

Just wanted to give you both a big woop woop for an amazing recovery story! I like your attitudes very much

And I am SUPER excited to hear there is a Blackberry app. I haven't been able to listen to MB since my laptop was stolen in a break in, but perhaps now I can...

What a nice thing to do.

Tried it and I love that app!

The moment I realized you were going to get it, I started thinking "oh, please have BlackBerry 6.0 or above; oh, please have BlackBerry 6.0 or above" ... You see, there are design decisions one has to make when <interrupt>

void noteToSelf() {
//This is not the time or place for this stuff
}

Sorry

Hahaha!

I can only tell you what I did with my uber remorseful wife who endured 10, maybe 15 days of me needling her for more information about the affair after dday. With the advice of those here, I extracted as much of the details (dirty and otherwise) of what went on. (Its somewhat important to know hers was a VLTA so I had a lot to know to make me satisfied.) She cried, cringed, was belittled, and mortified to have to tell me about bjs, hotel sex, and all the rest.

Then, also at the advice here, it was time to move on to EPs and how we start to rebuild what she effed-up.

Have I reopened the A case to get another tidbit of info here and there? Cant say no. But, she'll remind me of the agreement I made not to talk about it at the same time she'll answer my question. Its a no win situation for both of us. I get more heartache while I do nothing but upset her. I can say this happens so rarely nowadays.

She's be a great wife who's made virtually no missteps since dday and the need to grill her is non-existent.

Ive learned now 15 months later to just 'move on'.

I agree with you. I'm just complaining that it is not easy, and I am not as good at it as I'd like to be. I don't want this to ever happen again, and I have identified the MB program as the best method to reach that goal.

Eureka, are these questions you have thought of and haven't asked before? Do you still have questions about the affair that have not been answered? You have a right to have those questions answered. Dr. H. says to stop bringing up the affair after all of your questions have been answered.

It isn't so much that I have questions to be answered. It is more like I need to talk to process things. Isn't this characteristic apparent in my posts? (You aren't imagining it.) I have been told repeatedly by different professionals that I will never figure this out. Indeed, I actually *believe* I will never figure it out. The further we get from DDay and the fog, the less my FWW can make any sense out of it either. Dr. H is one of the only people I have found who has been able to help me understand .

Another aspect of our recovery that I want to pass on:

My health is less than perfect. About 10 years after we were married, I became insulin-dependent. I was a late-onset type 1. My diabetes has always been something that I tended to by myself. I failed to appreciate the effect this had on my wife. I failed to understand how my "not bothering her with it" was perceived as independent behavior. All of this changed in our new life.

I have current technology to help me manage myself. I have an insulin pump and a continuous glucose monitor that warns me when I'm getting out of spec, often before I notice it myself. I have let my wife into my world of diabetes management. I showed her how to use the pump remote control, how to calculate the correction dosages on it, and how to react to the highs and lows which used to just leave her feeling helpless. Nowdays, when the CGM alarm goes off at night, I often don't even wake up. She checks the reading, takes the remote control, and deals with the situation, and I get to keep sleeping. I guess what I am trying to say is our recovery has led me to a different idea of what intimacy really is - the good, the bad, and the ugly. While letting your spouse stick metal objects into you might not be for everyone, it has worked for us.

MrEureka. I have an idea..... I have read your thread, and am amazed at how wonderfully you and your wife have turned this around and saved your marriage. Forgiveness is a gift we give to others who are truly repentent and a gift we give ourselves so we can let it go. You have done beautifully, built a loving, strong marriage together. What I am sensing from your most recent posts is fear. Fear that she could somehow, someway, sometime possibly ever do something like this again. It hurt so badly the first time, that you never EVER want it to happen again. Fear is not from God. It is from the devil who does not want you to be happy in your marriage. You will NEVER figure it out. It happened b/c needs weren't being met somewhere (ETA - and of course - poor boundaries around opposite sex.) You can make sure you are meeting each others EN's, POJA, spending time together, putting boundaries in place, doing all the things you are supposed to be doing. Let it go!! Every time you think about it, have a mantra that you tell yourself. For example, "We are NOW meeting eachother's emotional needs and have a stronger marriage than ever." The moving on, let it go posts from others don't tell you HOW to let it go and move on. I don't either, but I hope that you can somehow trust where you are now - trust yourself. You have saved your marriage, now enjoy it with out any fears or reservations. You can't fear or predict the future. You can just completely enjoy the gifts of love and the marriage you have now. You have the EP's in place. Now, LIVE in it!!! I think if you can do that, you will be able to relax a little and just LIVE.

Thank you.

Do you ever journal?

Dr. H recommended for me to journal. I was, but then going back and rereading and he told me not to keep going back. Write it down, get it out and throw it away if I can't stop from rereading and obsessing.

Hey. You are welcome. Was I even close? Your name reminds me of an area that I used to vacation and camp in the summers when I was a child. Eureka Springs. Have a great day Mr. E!!

You are so close, it is outright spooky.

My wife picked "Eureka" when she started this thread last year. She hasn't posted for a long time and has forgotten her login. I went with mrEureka just to make the association obvious. I would rather be "Viper2". (I can see the need to build up the brood.)

I don't have a habit of journaling for myself. My wife and I maintained a journal for 17 years for our autistic son. My wife has a personal history of journaling. She sent me a psalm she wrote yesterday that I wish I could pass on. She is very good at expressing what she is thinking in writing. I, less so. I'm afraid if I took up journaling, I would bore even me.

This hits home mrEureka. I also cannot stop "processing" something until it makes sense to me. I too felt the need to talk about it because I just couldn't make sense of HOW did you do that. I understand the boundary thing but what about the moral compass part?

My FWH had always been a caring sensitive person. He is usually the only one crying at kids movies, tv shows, and even sporting events. How does someone like that actually start having an affair with a supposed family friend and even start bringing it into the home and carrying on right in front of everyone. What the heck???? How does a once good person start to look you in the eye and repeatedly lie and do things to destroy their family. That was incomprehensible to me.


I could never feel safe until I figured out the HOW.



MrEureka. Stop to think of a heroin addict or any other addict for that matter. They will lie, steal from their beloved mothers and even their kids to feed their addiction. The addiction takes over their lives and rules their every action even at the expense of total destruction to everything and everyone they love.


Affairs are an addiction. A very powerful addiction just like any other addiction. It rules the addict's life.


Looking at it those terms helped me to comprehend the incomprehensible...how he was able to ignore his moral compass.


You sound like you are on the right path. Tomorrow is another day. Keep working the MB Plan and you will get there.

LB3 - Good insight, better advice, EXCELLENT presentation.

Since you're such a good student of MB you've probably already seen these?
Can't we Just Forgive and Forget #1
Can't we Just Forgive and Forget #2
Can't We Just Forgive and Forget #3

I POJAed this one and got permission, so the following is authored by my wife:

We read a Psalm every night during our devotion, and I have noticed several trends. 1. The psalmist asks God for forgiveness. 2. Praises for God for his awesomeness. 3. Pleas for protection from enemies. 4. Punishment of unbelievers and personal foes.

Eureka's psalm for today:

I am sorry for my moodiness today, Lord. Really, there is nothing wrong in my life right now. My health is fine, my finances are fine, my marriage and home life are fine, and my work is fine. Fine, fine, fine. Forgive me for being disrespectful of all this �fineness�. So often, when I come to you, there is a true issue. Today, I have just a feeling of blahness. I also feel that my life is getting no closer to my goals of finding a new job and relocating. I desperately want to get away from this place where so many bad memories reside.

But you have delivered me from a horrible fate: separation from my loved ones, from my home, from my work. You kept me in a good way by bringing MrE and I closer than ever. I feel awed by your total regard for me and my needs. You kept me safe from something that would have most likely led to suicide. That is not drama talking, that is the truth. I am healthy and whole and I have a path to lead me out of this life I live now to what I know will be a better one because You have provided it.

Save me from my feelings of unworthiness, restlessness, and middle-aged angst. Preserve my life so that I may be a blessing for Your sake. Help my whole life to be a witness to Your goodness and mercy and endless love for Your children. Keep me from falling victim to my vices, especially my need to be admired and included.

Lastly, Lord, I ask you to punish those who would harm my family. Grant me the strength and endurance to be the warrior you need me to be to fiercely protect what is mine. Give me courage to see myself as others see me so that I may not be led astray by evil ones on Earth or the Evil One below. Give me trust that you will ultimately do all that needs to be done and that I can let you simply be God.

Thanks for sharing Mr and Mrs. Eureka.

Did you know the Harleys wrote a couples devotional? It's called Draw Close

They sent a copy of "Draw Close" to us for being on the radio show.

They are correct. You won't figure it out. Because you are trying to make sense out of non-sense. Stop trying to figure it out. That will defeat you every time and distract you from recovery.

I think this is an intimate act of true love. Many would give much to have this sort of intimacy in their marriage.

Let me tell you about something that happened yesterday when I went to my wife's work to pick her up. There is an older guy there, let's just call him POS, who I have identified as potential trouble. My wife works in a female-dominated profession, so when some guy chooses to work there, there is always that chance that he is after something. POS likes to avoid work by hanging around the women and talking. He likes to comment on how they dress. I think he is a jerk.

Yesterday, my wife was the supervisor in charge of locking the place up. As I am waiting around for the last of the customers to leave, POS asks he if he could help me with something. The other employee with POS starts laughing, and says " Don't you know, that's mrE, Eureka's husband". From that point on, POS *refused* to give me eye contact!

This guy does not know who he is dealing with. "Go ahead, make my day."

What does Mrs E say about POS employee?

AM

She avoids him, and we have had many discussions about him. He is no threat to us as long as we maintain RH and transparency. But it is an incentive to me to stay alert, and both my wife and I are counting the days when she can leave that job.

That definitely looks and sounds like recovery to me.

AM

Ditto!!

And Mr. E., I think POS employee knows who his messing with hence " can't be a man and look you in the eye".

My wife tells me that she plans to start posting again. She had to start a new login as mrsEureka because she doesn't remember how to go back to her old one. Actually, I like the symbolism - it's appropriate to how much we have changed since last year.

Good and welcome mrsEureka.

Hello Everyone,

After over a year, I'm just posting a quick follow-up. My husband (mr. eureka) has posted a lot of what has happened to us.

Even after a year, we still talk about some aspect of the affair probably every day. It has taken me until just recently to feel that I have healed and my husband still has a long way to go before he can truly feel safe again.

I learned so much this past year. It wasn't the path I would choose to grow, but learning just the same. My husband and I both miss the innocence we had before I had my affair. We were one of those couples who got along very well, and neither of us would have ever thought that we would fall victim to what happened to us. We had a strong marriage. We had to; being parents of a child with autism will either drive you together or apart, and we chose together.

I understand sexual harassment very well now. My affair partner was my supervisor, who had been flattering me for years with both compliments about my work performance and my appearance. He would not have been able to get away with so much crap had he not been my supervisor and I had to listen to him. When our affair was discovered, he told his supervisor it was a case of "two friends who fell in love" which was a lot of baloney.

Anyway, what I really wanted to post about was how long it takes for the fog to lift. For me, despite my relief at the affair being discovered and ended and the ceasing of all contact with my supervisor, I still felt guilt and shame plus a part of me missed the attention, as pathetic as that sounds. My husband thinks that I came out of the fog around January (DOD was June 1); I'd say even later because even though I wasn't thinking fond thoughts of my supervisor, I was still thinking about him and worrying that he might show up since I am still at the same location where the bulk of the affair took place. One of my former coworkers ran into him recently, and he told her some sob story about retiring from his job because with his ill health, he just couldn't handle it. Oddly enough, this outright lying was the clincher for me. He was actually quietly fired and removed from the company's roster.

Please me patient with your WS's fog. Keep loving your spouse like my husband loved me, and eventually your face will be the only one your spouse wants to see. It will be WORK like you've never had before to bring your marriage to a place of comfort and peace, but I can tell you, it is SO worth it!

mrs.eureka

Thank you for the update, Mrs. E. We are so happy to hear of how things are going for you guys, and I think you make some excellent points in your post about being patient.

It's been good to have your husband posting around here a bit, too. I hope you guys won't be strangers!

self delete because maritalbliss already answered the question

Can u explain what you mean by this?

May I ask how long term was the A?

Also do you know of any others on this forum who overcame VLTA by their wife?

What is ETA?

And since A can happen even in good marriages, is it accurate so suggest that each one involved or resulted from an unmet need?

My WW affair was with an old collage boyfriend with whom she had seen for a few months. She recently admitted that she was not unhappy with our marriage at the time it started. She said it started with a "curiosity kiss." Our marriage was not perfect at the time it occurred, but I was trying to meet her needs to the extent I understood them.

So you mean the HOW is answered for you by considering the addictive nature of affairs?

Thanks for these honest reflections, but they have me concerned. How long do WW really take to come out of a fog?

You think it took you more than 6 months and as I recall you never had sex with the OM. I am still learning.

I think you should visit regularly and wear your sidearm!!

Mrs. Eureka,

As the A began and progressed did you rationalize or justify it in your mind by putting your H down in your mind? Did you in any way dwell on his faults to make what you were doing was fair or appropriate?

My understanding is that this is typical for WW to do. Am I correct in this?

"Edited to add".

My wife's affair occurred primarily because she did not close off her love bank and allowed someone other than me to make deposits. In both of her affairs, this other person was a direct supervisor. In the most recent affair, the supervisor deliberately went after my wife, and worked on her for years before she caved in. The "curiosity kiss" sounds very much like the same sort of situation. It wasn't that you were missing addressing her ENs so much as it was that she chose to let someone else make love unit deposits.

These issues are addressed in recovery by putting in place EPs that make the affair essentially impossible to repeat in the same way. In my wife's case, she can never again have a male for a supervisor. In your wife's case, connections to past boyfriends must be severed. This may mean no class reunions, no social media - nothing that would allow a male from her past to slip in there and deposit love units. You wife needs to be proactive in closing off her love bank to others. Your meeting her ENs will certainly help.

Oh, I do visit regularly! But the rest of that suggestion will have to be relegated to fantasy. I have harbored lots of fantasies since DD. Tying OPs to anthills, dropping off bridges, throwing out of airplanes, etc. etc.

How are things Mr. E?

Everything has been going well. We have been very busy.

My wife received a job offer at a location within a 20 minute drive from our new house located in another state 500 miles from here. It is a perfect fit for our needs, so she will be accepting it. We have about a month to get ready to move. I need to complete the retirement procedures for my present employer, and then move down there as soon as I can. I will be working at establishing my own software business once I am there. There will be a mismatch in time of a month or two when my wife will be working down there and I will still be up here. This seems unavoidable. We are going to be seeing each other on weekends, and we are still trying to figure out other ways to minimize the separation. I will be busy finishing my job here and getting our house ready to sell in the meantime.

So, we will be moving to another state, but we will be spending about 20-40 nights apart to achieve that. This is a compromise that we are not happy about, but I can�t think of any other way to do it.

We are continuing to work the MB program. I have found it to be very important for me as a BS to learn how to give up the high ground when it comes to morality. I�m doing much better. My wife can now express indignation over the antics of politicians or whoever, and I no longer automatically think to myself �aren�t you being a bit hypocritical?�

We were on the radio show today, discussing the separation issue associated with our upcoming move.

SO What did you think?

I think one should always take advice seriously when one asks for it.

My wife and I haven't had a chance to discuss Dr. H's advice yet. We will do so this evening. We would both be very happy to zero out the separation. My opinion is that the Lord has brought us to this point, and He has a solution for us. Dr. H is an important voice in discovering that solution. The answer isn't at our fingertips just now.

After we got offline, Dr. H pronounced us fully recovered. I didn't hear that until listening to the rebroadcast.

I'm going to be looking forward to hearing this one.

Me too

You guys have done a super job!!

It looks like we have found a way to completely avoid having any nights apart.

Sometimes, it just requires somebody to emphatically say "NO" to you to make you really start reconsidering how you are doing things. Dr. H did that with us, and we know it would be foolish not to listen. Now I am going to have to move in a week, too. We are going to be very busy, but we are also very happy with the resolution.

Congratulations. That is great news. POJA is a great thing.

AM

Great job, you guys!

I'm so glad you're going to listen to Dr. H. When I first saw that you were going to have a few days apart, I was concerned. Now you're going to take that extraordinary precaution, fantastic Mr. and Mrs.Eureka.

Here's the show of Mr. and Mrs.eureka.

Radio clip on Mr. and Mrs. Eureka's call
Segment #2
Segment #3

Update: We are in the East Coast storm zone, and both my wife and I had two days off work. While it gave us more time for packing, it means that the processing of paperwork to put me on leave status from work was delayed. I am at work today, running around like a crazy person trying to get everything done. It is hard to end a 30-year career in a couple of days when you thought you would have a month. Today is my wife's last day of work. As her workplace was the venue of her affair, we are both very happy to see this day.

While there is no question in my mind that we are doing the right thing, there are still times of melancholy in this process. Last night when I was packing up my tool bench, I started getting so depressed that I had to stop and go for a walk with my wife to distract myself. We will be moving in a few days. I am certain that when I post after the move, I will be much happier.

Hi, Mr. E. It's good to hear from you, and good to know you guys survived the storm.

Moving is depressing to me. We've moved twice in our marriage, first from the home I originally bought with the expectation of raising our family in, a home some of our children were born in. Moving was the right thing to do, but leaving that home was very hard. It took awhile to recover from that, but focusing on my new life in our new town was what did it.

Human beings have a remarkable capacity to adjust to new circumstances. It's hard when you're giving up surroundings you love, but you will get through this, and in the end you guys are going to be better than ever.

Thanks for checking in mr.e. So glad you and mrs. e are ok.

I'm sure there will be moments, but good job that you and mrs.e are in it for the long haul.

I'm sure you're doing the right thing. Cheers to your new adventure.

I'm changing my sig from recovering to recovered. If Dr. H says we've recovered, who am I to question the expert assessment?

Last night while packing, I came upon the medication prescribed to me by the psychiatrist who was treating me post-affair:

Me: "What should we do with this?"
Mrs E: "I promise that you will NEVER need that ever again!"
Me: "Well, we should pitch it, then."
<Big hug - Life is good>

That's great, Mr. E!

BRAVO!!!!!

Recovered it is!

The final step in our relocation is happening. We have sold our old house, and will be traveling back for the closing tomorrow. This was the last thing connecting us to the old life. I'm happy about it, but my wife is *extremely* happy. Relocation has really helped us a lot.

I should add, we stuck to Dr. H's no nights apart rule like it was law. It wasn't always convenient, but we spent every night together - no separation overnight for the purpose of getting the house ready or accommodating job requirements. My wife ended up having to take some leave without pay, but we were better off for it.

Nice update. Am I remembering correctly that you talked about the move on the radio show a few months ago?

AM

Yes. It is all covered in the prior posts on this thread, including some links to the show supplied by the MB librarian, BH.

Sorry. I must have been extra-lazy last night. I recall Dr. Harley also talking about you reading and re-reading "Draw Close" to start your day. My H and I read those devotionals at night before going to sleep. It's another great Harley book.

In any case, great use of negotiation and POJA.

AM

Here it is AM.

Mr.E,
It's so nice to watch your recovery.

I�m back on my original thread to tell you about an incident that happened last week, and how we handled it (or in some ways, mishandled it).

Things have been going just great for us. We moved seven months ago, and have built a new life here that the whole family is very happy with. I am now retired and I spend my time writing software, keeping the house in order, and providing primary care for our autistic son. My wife is working at her new job. It is there where the story starts.

There is a local festival, like a county fair, that is held every fall. My wife decided she wants to try her luck at the baking contest. She has been trying new recipes and taking them to work. There she leaves cards out for people to write their opinions. She had one desert that she made that I tried some of (I�m an insulin-dependent diabetic so I really shouldn�t be eating lots of high glycemic-index foods) and I know for a fact was quite spectacular. Somebody left a comment card that said only �Marry Me�. My wife told me about it, but deliberately picked a time when I wasn�t really paying attention as she could sneak it under the wire. Several days later, a guy cornered her when nobody else was around and revealed himself as the perpetrator. She waited another day, and then told me about that directly. Her reason for the delay was that she was afraid I would just tell her to stop taking in deserts to work, and she didn�t want to stop. My actual reaction was to say that I am not going to �tell� you to do anything; this is something we need to discuss and find a mutual enthusiastic agreement.

We had a POJA discussion, the result of which was a decision that she should report the incident to her work supervision and let the organization handle it. The guy ended up having to apologize.

At this point, I could just you what I carried away from all of this, but I�d rather hear what you have to say first.

Your wife's delayed honesty sounds a lot like what my instincts led me to do about honesty, at first! Thankfully I think we are getting better about that around here. I realized a week ago I was doing something Prisca didn't want me doing, and told her about it immediately. Prisca's got a rule for herself that if she ever thinks "That's something I don't want markos to know," she tells me immediately.

The "marry me" comment sounds like just the kind of idiotic thing I might have said a few years ago. Now I realize it's not even close to funny. I am glad you guys thought to report him - reading your story I didn't think of that solution at first. And truly, when you come down to it - that's harassment.

It sounds to me like you guys handled this well, although some of the important habits are probably still a little awkward.

I have to ask, why weren't you really paying attention when your wife was trying to tell you something?

Your wife inadvertently met a man's need for Domestic Support who either didn't know she was married or didn't care that she was married.

Sort of like a guy we once knew who was single at that time - he received a professional massage from a woman masseuse and told us he had sighed in deep pleasure, murmuring "Will you marry me?" He didn't really mean it, he said, but the massage made him feel really great. Perhaps like the man who tried your wife's delicious dessert and associated those feelings of pleasure with your wife.

Your wife should have been immediately radically honest and shared with you right away what had happened. That she waited to tell you is troubling, but she at least didn't wait long.

I bake lots of kinds of bread; that's my thing. I love baking bread and making it better and better each time. And when people eat it and compliment me, I love that, too. It's great getting all that admiration. If a man was to enjoy the bread I make and then give me glowing compliments, asking me, even jokingly, to marry him, that would deposit some major love units with me. (Although he would have a tough time competing with my H, who very successfully meets my need for admiration.) Did his compliment do the same for your wife?

If so, then she likely ought to only bake for a select few, who include only women.

If you make radical honesty safe for her (I assume you didn't have an AO or DJ), then she will eventually not fear it and will begin to see it as something intimate.

Since she does seem to fear it now, I would suggest she set a rule for herself similar to the one I have: If, at any time, I find myself thinking "I don't want markos to know about this because ..." I tell him immediately, regardless of how much it may frighten me.

Mr Eureka. Recovering from affairs and learning to shore up those boundaries is one giant learning curve. It sounds like you did a good job in demonstrating that you are safe to approach. Good job!


There will always be people out there in everyday life who are clueless about boundaries. It is important to learn how to shut them down and send a clear message to that person that you are married and then take the action to strengthen that weak boundary that allowed someone to break through.

Mrs. Eureka. "My husband will not be happy to hear that you want to marry me."


If your wife is bringing in baked goods and inviting compliments or opinions from others, she cannot control what their response will be. Some responses may be what she feels are inappropriate. So stop doing the things that is inviting those type of responses. That is how the marriage is protected. That is strengthening the boundaries.


My FWH came home last week with a chocolate chip cookie that the receptionist gave to him. He thanked her and told her that he would take it home to share with his wife who loves cc cookies. I was proud of him. A few years ago his response would have been "Thank you that cookie was delicious." It was a learning process for him to get to this point. It took time and patience.


Just for the record, my DD 15 loves to bake and all the boys tell her that they want to marry her... even the boys who like boys. We don't know if your wife's colleague had an agenda or not..but it seems clear that your FWW has some work to do on learning how to shut down people that are crossing the line. Those people with poor boundaries will always be out there.

I have never been one to have AOs.

What my wife thought at first was that it was no big deal. As she thought about it more, she realized she should tell me, but didn't want to upset me. So, she told me when she knew I wasn't really listening. When the guy cornered her, that is when she knew that telling me for real was unavoidable. The delay after that was her trying to find the right moment.

She found the remark harassing. She works in a nearly all female workplace. The comment really was sexual harassment; proven by the fact that he cornered her later. That is why he was reported.

I got that impression

Some suggestions to think about ... In addition to your wife working on radical honesty, it would be a good idea for you to work on dropping what ever you are doing to listen to her when she speaks to you. If, for some reason you CAN'T do that at the moment, then say a "Give me 15 minutes, Hon, then I can give you my attention ..." Or something along those lines. Make a point to listen whenever she has something to say. This is something you can do to prevent a situation where she can try to tell you something when you aren't really listening.

Unfortunately, non-listening is a survival skill when you live with an autistic person. Both of us do it. My wife sometimes complains at me that I am better than her at it when our son starts to get to her and I seem unbothered. I need to work on selective tuning.