I have come to a decision about my marriage, married 22 years this friday....
hubby is in an A, I found out in Nov/09.
we have a separation agreement and have taken care of the financial so all he has to do is move out...
He has not been looking for alternate housing because he says he doesn't know what he wants now.......enough time has passed. so far I've left it up to him with the time line.....
Well this weekend I decided this was all to much for me and that he should move out and on with his plan to be with his new love......
It is very tough to see him go, but he needs a big push, this will make him decide and get off the fence.....
I just am finished with this whole bull from him and all his confusion...
I am making the decision for him.......I should have when I found out about his affair, should have kicked him out then.....I probably wasted 3 months of my life feeling rejected and being told "I don't love you anymore"
I told him I understand that message loud and clear and now it's time to own his decisions and to move on with the life he claims he wants....
he is angry and hurt but I am sticking with this and just let the chips fall where they may.......
I will posting here to vent and get support......thanks for listening

Hi Jessi, you should probably stick to one thread so people can read your entire story (you can have the mods fold it into your original by clicking the "Notify" button on the lower right).

I am glad to see you making decisions for yourself and being strong. This is what recovery is about -- not being miserable in a marriage that isn't working, or that won't work because one of the spouses won't work on it.

There may come a time when Plan B has its desired affect. In the mean time, be strong and post your updates here!

This is what happens to WS who arrogantly sit on the fence and try to string the BS along by saying, "I don't know what I want . . . "

They think the decision is theirs to make and that the BS is just so desperate for them to stay that they'll put up with anything.

And then they're shocked when suddenly the decision has been made for them and the BS can't stand to look at them anymore.

jess, this may wake him up, but even if it doesn't you will not have to suffer the emotional abuse of having a lying, cheating, neglectful partner in your home any longer.

Hang in there and keep posting. There are many here who can help you through this.

okay as some of you know my husband and I are separated but still living together in the same house, he is suppose to find a new place but has asked for time to figure out what he still feels for me.... I found out about his affair in nov/09. He says he is not in love with me but hopes he can rekindle that feeling, He is joining me in Florida for 2 weeks, so I guess this is a good sign in it's self.....I plan to do a great Plan A even though I'm not convinced it will change anything....but this will be my last ditch effort.....
Right now he can't seem to hug or kiss me, and when he does it's just like he is going through the motions, we have had sex a few times and that has been great.....he says this has never been a problem area, it's the lack of him coming to me naturally, me so far making the effort to hug and kiss him hello and good bye....sometimes the rejection is hard to take, he says it's nothing personal, he has even used headache, being tired as excuses....still in love with other woman? He says his life wouldn't be better without me but does he want a relationship without intimacy? Is there a time line where this gets better or is this the way it will be.......anyone experience this and for how long..........thanks for the help.......sometimes I don't think it's even worth the effort.....

You bet and contact is still continuing.

Foggie talk. Get intimacy from OW, Get something else from you.

You know the answer, if no one makes a move then there is no reason WH will do anything. ... you need to do great plan A like you said then you should look into plan B. Your taker is starting to talk.

rh

Hi Jess, that is not "separated;" that is moving into the back bedroom and openly carrying on an affair. Calling that "separated" is fog talk. If I walk into the garage and my H is in the kitchen, we are not "separated" we are just in different parts of the house. Fogged out waywards often use this ploy [moving into the guest room and pronouncing themselves "separated" as a justification to commit adultery]

What have you done to bust up this affair? Has the affair been exposed to everyone? Are you in plan A?

Hi again, Jess. I went back and read your other thread and agree with the others that Plan B is in order. Your H is getting his needs met in TWO PLACES and has no motivation to end his affair. You are essentially propping up his affair by allowing him to cake eat.

Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life, but a very short, 3 to 4 week program until the adulterer ends his affair. I would get him moved out and then go into Plan B if I were you. The longer you wait, the more worn down you will be mentally and the more entrenched his affair becomes.


AND

yes the affair has been in the open since i found out, I guess what I meant when i said I was separated is that we have a legal separation agreement , the financial is taken care of, he is even paying me alimony. I took care of all these things, told him it was over when I found out about the affair, he said it is over with the OW, he spends all his time with me now, home right after work, doesn't go out for anything. He says he wants to work on us and has asked for a chance, going to Florida with me was his idea, I just don't understand the distance so far with the physical touch, he told me he is afraid of getting hurt by me again and me deciding it is still over...this is my last ditch effort and only because we have been together 26 years. and i also owe my faults......i am prepared to call it quits though, can't just go back to what it was and the lack of intimacy was one of my problems with him.......just wondered if anyone else had any experience with this kind of situation

Translation: please be my "friend" while I destroy our marriage and bring you down. I don't want to be your husband, but I want you to be "friendly" while I destroy you.

This is what ALL WS's want. But you should tell him you won't be "friends" with someone who lies to you and cheats on you.

Your husband is hoping you will cooperate with his planned destruction and he should be disabused of that notion. Since he is an attorney, I would make sure you have GREAT legal counsel.


Do you have good legal counsel, jess?

In Virginia, this is actually considered separation!

My WW moved into another room on October 26, 2009 and out of the house on November 30. Our separation and property settlement agreement stipulates our separation date as October 26.

Getting hurt by you? What does this mean?

First off, Jess, your marriage will never recover as long as he sees the OW at work every day. The affair HAS NOT ENDED. Just the fact that he comes home at night tells me nothing. A person who SAYS they want to recover and does nothing to effect that recovery is more likely running a con game, not sincerely interested in recovery.


If he wants to recover the marriage, here is what it will take:

here

It is also considered "separation" in the foggy minds of waywards, and used as justification to commit adultery from the back bedroom.

This makes me think his affair is in full swing but he is on the fence about committing to either of you. He is holding out while weighing all options. He feels like he is CHEATING when he has sex with you and probably promised the OW he would not have sex with you.

yes I live in canada and it is also considered separated here as well, you can live in the same house and be separated.
I guess I know I should pull the plug because it all points to the end of the marriage, but I guess since it's him asking and I'm a fixer by nature I should at least do the 2 weeks in florida and see what happens....
He told me last night if he leaves me it won't fix what is wrong, he won't really say what all his problems are but maybe in florida I can talk to him and try to understand why my husband is going through all he is, he seems depressed and like he can't handle anything, even the little things are to much......
he is giving up a lot to be in this spot he is in.....it's not like him to fight for what is his.....he says he is going to go to a monastery and do some pendance for his sins....I told him if it was our marriage and me that has thrown him into this state that he should just go and relieve that pressure, he says that is not it. but I don't know what it really is if he is telling the truth........I guess 2 more weeks won't kill me, I am going to keep myself in a safe place emotionally for now..

My vote is to Plan A your [censored] off in FL, have a GREAT time with him, show him what a magical M you can have...and then straight to Plan B when you get home because he will not fire her/stop seeing her daily/cake eating.

Write your PBL before you go and get all of your ducks ina row for a dark Plan B as soon as you return [within a day or two].

It is because of this that I insisted my WW move out. When she dropped the a-bomb on me, she asked me if I wanted her to move out, even though she had "no place to go," I said yes.

I even asked her why she didn't just move in with OM. Her reply was, "It's complicated." That's when I knew he was married.

She told me on a Friday. On the following Monday she moved into another room. As she did so, I went to an attorney and had the first draft of our SPSA drawn up. She was so foggy she didn't half understand what was in it.

After she signed it and I returned it to the lawyer, she asked me, "There isn't anything in there that is going to $crew me, is there?" To the contrary, I gave much more than I should have, in retrospect.

It's one of the things she left behind, in fact. I found her copy (with a hand-written note to OM on the back side of page 1) when I was cleaning out the house.

But I digress.

Separated and living under the same roof is NOT a recommendation I would make. To anyone!

Jess, going to Florida will be nice, but it is not a plan for recovery. In order for your marriage to recover, you need a PLAN to recover it. Lets say I want to lose 100 pounds. I can't lose 100 pounds by going to Florida, I have to go on a DIET and actually USE the diet.

It is the same with your marriage. "Understanding" your H will not save your marriage. Using a program of recovery WILL.

If I were in your shoes, and wanted to save my marriage, here is what I would do. I would sit him down and say this:

Joe, I am willing to try to make this work if you are willing to make the effort to do the things necessary to recover. Our marriage can make it and we can have romantic, passionate love again if we do certain things. Here is what it will take:

1. Ending all contact with the OW for life. That means no more contact at work even if that means leaving your job
2. Following Marriage Builders program to a) affair proof this marriage and b) create romantic love

I am willing to try on those conditions. I know of no other way to save our marriage and am not willing to go forward unless there is a rational plan in place. Otherwise, I want to you to move out now. I can�t go on while you go to see the OW every day at work. It is too painful.

Force his hand, Jess. DEMAND that he end contact with his OW. Nothing short of a demand will suffice.

If he decides to try recovery, I would STRONGLY URGE you get counseling from Steve Harley and in the meantime sign up for the Marriage Builders weekend that is coming in March. It is in Minnesota. My H and I went to this and it is fabulous. It is an 8 lesson plan to restore your marriage by creating romantic love and it really works. You start the program with a weekend seminar and after that you do weekly lessons that are guided by your assigned coach. Dr Harley oversees this whole thing and you would have daily access to him over on the weekend forum. Many of us here have used this program and it was worth every penny. Our marriages are fully recovered.

Actually it is better if you are doing plan A. You are creating also a pressure on A. But it is not for everyone.

rh

Yes, yes and yes !. Focus on your plan A and what's coming then decide later.

If you don't mind me to ask what is your plan A ?.

-rh-

Well, yes. I should have clarified a bit: under the terms of a separation, any time the spouses engage in SF, the separation date becomes reset. There isn't truly any legal form of separation under these circumstances.

Plan A is an attempt to kill the affair and show the WS how good the marriage ought to be. Under Plan B, however, living under the same roof is sheer torture.

I have heard all the stuff your H is telling you from my WH. Including...I am afraid you will hurt me again. Yes, my WH thought (and still thinks) that the reason he has A is because of me being a nag, being unhappy, being difficult. That entitles him to have OW who he can be happy with. His words not mine.
Your H believes the same thing. He believes you make him miserable and that he is entitled to some hapiness after so much misery...
My WH also said that sex was never a problem with me...however he would not have it. And Melody is right, having sex with W is cheating on OW. Imagine in what sort of mental trip these men are!
So, follow what Mel said. I can assure you taht if you do not...he will make the rest of your M life sheer he77 and will cheat again and again till it drains you and leaves you an empty shell of a woman.
Stand up for yourself. Tell him the M you want.
Blessing

Just a reminder that Plan A is not supposed to be a way of life. It is only to last 3 to 4 weeks for women and she is WELL BEYOND THAT. A prolonged Plan A causes problems and is ill-advised. If he doesn't know that she is willing to meet his needs in the future, then he will never know. I can see dragging out Plan A if there is a POINT, but I see none here.

What I envision with the Florida trip is a very disappointing trip with a H who refuses to have sex with her and who is emotionally withdrawn in his affair with the OW. That sounds to me like something that would only serve to wear you down MORE psychologically for no benefit.

I would use that offer in a more strategic manner that is likely to reap a BENEFIT, such as asking him to commit to a program of recovery and signing up for a MB weekend along with counseling, using the Florida trip as LEVERAGE.

That will reap a result.

I know you knew and sorry posting a comment on yours. I am not sure about her and just want to clarify it.

I am glad to see atena's post, she is the one that jessi was asking for.

-rh-

+1 on the Florida trip.

Just got back from a family/work trip to Puerto Rico with my WW and kids. Kids had a great time. I thought I'd have the opportunity to "plan A" my azz off. Instead, I found her contacting OM and texting her girlfriends about it while we were on the trip. Needless to say it pretty much ruined the trip for me.

We ended up further apart after the trip than before.

melody lane,
to answer your questions, I have considered that he was just trying to be nice so things were comfortable at home..the part of him being afraid of me hurting him because I have told him what I want and if it doesn't happen then I will ask him to leave the marriage like we have agreed to. He will have to put himself out there and take his chances that i'm happy in the end....I know who the OW is and my husband has stopped some of the events he used to be able to see her at and his phone and computer are available for me to see when I want. phone records......he says he doesn't love me and I know that is what all cheaters say but he has been saying this to me because of our marriage for a couple of years and asking me for a divorce for at least 3, he said the affair was because of that and that he regrets that now, now that he can see some hope for us, says he does not feel the same about me anymore, he said he thought I didn't love him, and when I said I never stopped loving him he saw that as hope which he didn't see before.....I will be working my final plan a while in florida and then when I get home I will have a conversation with him about what his intentions are to fix our relationship and if he still is undecided or has no plan then it will be a plan B from there on........

married for ever,
plan a him and then plan b him what you said is exactly my plan.

fred,
hi, I am asking him to move out when we return from florida unless I see something different and hear some kind of plan for us to work things out so both of us are happy.........Plan B will take effect, he knows what my expectations are and he knows that I have been more than understanding but now need to have an answer one way or another and then continue on with whatever plan we both will be happy with.
I'm not a fool

What is your plan A ?.

-rh-

fred, I have also added a cohabitation clause that extends the usually 90 days to 180 days so I don't ruin anything I have already in place......that way we are free to try until we get back and then we will have had time to each access the marriage and see if there is anything there for us or we call it quits and just understand that we can't meet each other's needs......

atena,
I have told him what I want, he wasn't the only one that was unhappy with the way things were, I would have to see changes and having gone through something like this it does show you that you just don't settle anymore and that is where I'm at.

You sound like you have both feet on the ground, Jessi. That's very good!

redhat,
My plan A is to be loving, happy and just totally relaxed, I plan to have fun walking the beach, golfing with him(we both love this) and just listening to him and get to know him again, we have gotten so far apart.......
I'm going to be the sexiest I been in a while, I will look good, smell good and just don't do anything that will show him the girl he fell out of love with...
I'm going to take him out and share some drinks and food, I'm going to touch him and intice him into the bedroom for a couple of weeks and really make him want to approach me......I know I could be setting myself up for some rejection but 26 years is worth the effort and if it doesn't work at least I tried and that is my personality.
I am actually going to have fun trying and I'm going to be playful with him, he has never been able to resist that part of me, this will be the first time he won't see the OW and it will be for 14 days, this was his idea to go with me I was going alone....
I'm hoping for what ever his reasons that it's sincere that he wants to spend time with me to see if we can get back to each other........I might be a fool I don't know...I'm strong enough to do this.....

No, you are not a fool, you are fighting for your M. You go girl !. You are a strong woman and have your stuff together, you could do it. Yes, you have a good plan A. Revisit what's good in the past and show him the best part of this M. If he doesn't value it ... don't LB'ed during the trip, it defeats your plan A. Wait after the trip to look into plan B. You need a solid plan A before you go into plan B.

Good luck and hope a bit of Florida sunlight poke through the FOG for at least 14 days.

-rh-

Jess, as long as he sees the OW at work everyday his affair is still on. It has the effect of an alcoholic having a drink every day at the bar. Do you see? Just seeing her triggers his feelings. That is why he is not drawing to you. It is his affair that is the problem and there will be no recovery until all contact ends.

If he sees "hope" as he says then wouldn�t now be the time to bring up a PLAN for recovery? Why wait? Why wouldn�t he therefore commit to a PLAN?

I will just re-emphasize Dr Harleys words, Jess. Plan A is only supposed to be for 3-4 WEEKS. You have done plenty enough Plan A. If he doesn�t get it by now, he will never get it. 

I got the feeling she hasn't done a "proper" Plan A, at least not in the MB sense. If she can do a stellar Plan A for Florida, why not? She seems up to it and strong....

I am not one for a prolonged Plan A....I did that and almost had a nervous breakdown. But I am getting the feeling she has not done a great Plan A thus far, which is why I am suggesting a knockout Plan A followed immediately by a very dark Plan B.

His last memories of her will be of an awesome vacation in FL while she is in a killer Plan A.

She has been in Plan A since November. If you read her other thread, she has been already been doing this since November. A 4 month Plan A is inappropriate. But hey, she has decided to this so there is no point in hashing it. If you feel 4-5 months is appropriate for Plan A, then you can help her with that.

I never said a 4-5 month Plan A was ok and you know me...I am VERY against a long PROPER Plan A since from experience I know what that can do to a BS.

I could be confusing her with a differeet poster but I thought she said her Plan has not been a MB "Plan A" and not very high quality. IF that is the case and she feels strong enough to give it one last go for FL then I see no harm in it. Just IMHO.

She seems aware that she should immediately go into Plan B and in her PBL she will state that recovery will not be attempted unless her WW no longer works with Ms. Ho Bag.

Jessi...I am not suggesting a Plan Doormat and I hope that is being made clear. I am suggesting you Plan A your hiney off WITH the goal of going immediately to Plan B when WH refuses to quit working with skankyho...because he WILL refuse since you have tolerated it this long. He will not think you are serious until you go full NC with him over this point.

There will be NO recovery while he works with her. Do not fool yourself for one second. This IS the reason he is has not committed to R...the fog is thick.

I planned A for almost six months (and I am a BW) but I am unusually patient and able to put Taker aside and I really needed to do it that long to rebuild a foundation of love for potential reconsiliation.

I didn't notice much improvement until the last month and a half and it was huge. We became inimate emotionally again for the first time in a LONG time during that.

Then I went plan B once I felt any further A would cause slippage of all the hard work I put in during the plan A period. I had done all I could reasonably do and anything else was possibly going to just be extraneous.

I went to B when I realized WH was not going to cut OW out and the only way to maybe have that happen was for me to step the heck out of the way and let it play out.

HTH

sigh...

thanks everyone for your posts, an as much as I understand what you are all saying I know you are right about the Ow, this has happened before to him, he was married before they were both lawyers and continued to work in the same firm successfully without any personal connection....while we were married and having our children....he had a stronger connection with her than the OW.......I do agree with what you are saying......and I think you are right, Plan B is in order when I get back because I to think that this has gone on long enough.....sometimes I think there isn't a solution to my problem.....he is the head guy at his firm, she is one of the law clerks, she is also separated from her husband and one of her childrren, they are younger than ours......he is 54, she is 10 years younger.....lots of responsibilites with parenting and $$$ needs, we are free and better off than her, he has given me everything in our agreement......and without a fight about it.....he is taking care of my needs and making sure the home for our children stays in tact for us.....I guess I'll plan the hell our of my A plan and then do the Plan B thing.....
I'm totally prepared for the marriage to end and maybe that is the answer let the affair play out, let him lose his life as he knows it......maybe somewhere down the line he will see what a mistake he has made with his life, it's taken me some time to come to an accepting place about my life, i will be fine and I'm actually looking forward to what life has in store for me, I guess after 26 years you feel comfortable and don't really want to think about starting over with life.......I'm not mad anymore, I've come to a peaceful place, I'm okay with the separation agreement which is better for me, everyone we know is supporting me even some of his family members.....he forgets they all love me as well......so I will be okay, not sure about him...

Anyone out there have a good one already composed, what should it state.
I'm ready to take this to the next step......I have a couple of weeks to compose the letter and hopefully end my situation one way or another....
any tips would be appreciated.....

is plan B inevitable? why are you opting for it?
blessing

atena,
I have been trying to work a Plan A since Nov, hubby had an affair with a woman he works with and there is no way that he can leave work he is the boss, and he won't get rid of her, he said it would cost a lot. He is a lawyer she is one of the girls in his clerical pool.....
I have asked him to re-consider our separation plans and he has asked for more time to think but things are the same as they were in Nov......he still says he is not in love with me and I have even tried to re-establish a physical relationship with him, he can't seem to approach me at all, no hugging, no kissing and he is refusing sex most of the time, it's all me who makes the effort to do these things, we have sex a few times but always me...
I think it's been long enough,
I'm away in Florida with him for 2 weeks, his idea to go with me and then I think I will give him the Plan B letter and make him get off the fence one way or the other, I realize I will probably lose him but if he doesn't love me then he needs to move on with his plan to separate from me.......
It is hard on me and sometimes the rejection is to much to bear.......

Classic post Sample Plan B .

Yes, you need to prepare to write one and plan logistics of plan B.

-rh-

thanks redhat, I should be able to compose something from all the letters that will suit my purpose.......

If you can, write it in your best handwriting on nice stationary.
It is more personal that way.

While in plan A in Florida.....make sure to strut yourself a bit (if you aren't already). Flashes of skin or downright topless in the motel room. Daring, confident, something for him to recall when you send him off and instigate plan B.

Yup, he isn't sexual with you cause he loves her. Your love bank is low (her account is high in the love bank right now because he hasn't been married to her for years and they haven't love busted much yet). You want to add all the deposits you can towards his emotional needs while in plan A. Just do the best you can and then go dark.

JT

I read some of your thread over the past few days.

One of the vets advised going all out on the trip with PL A and then when you get back go to PL B. This will Show him The wife he will be missing.

This would have the greatest affect of breaking up the A.

Is this your PLan?? Just wondering.

Nesre

thanks reading and nesre,
Yes I plan on doing the best Plan A I can, even bought some new sexy things to wear at nite......I have been working out and I am in the best shape I've been in years.....pilates does wonders for your abs.....haha!!!!
I plan to be sweet,sexy, caring and fun to be around........we used to have fun doing things together, we are taking our golf clubs and plan on a couple of days of sharing our interest.....I have a couple of cute new outfits to go out for supper and drinks.....I'm going to look my best and smell my best at all times.......
Then after I get back from Florida I will give him my plan B letter and be clear what I expect from then on.....he will have to figure out what he wants without me in the picture........I'm prepared for the worst and I honestly think this is the only way for him to decide and It will be better emotionally for me, out of sight out of mind.....

This is not a good reason to go into Plan B.

This is a good reason to go into Plan B.

Make sure you're doing it for the right reasons.

Jessie,


I think you've done a great job with your Plan-A and Your right to move to Plan-B .....

Have you considered calling Steve Harley, He's great and can put some stuff in that thick head of your WH for him to think about when you go to Plan-B that will put more pressure on him to see the mistake he is making .....


I wish you would set up a call to talk to Steve....You will feel it's money well spent....His contact info is on the home page of the web site


This is the letter I gave my WW and Steve Harley helped me with it.... I hope elements of it can help you......

My Dearest WW,

The love and bond I feel for you endures to this day. When I think back to our 1st date hopping that freight train and riding it thru the tunnel and down the mountian it set a pace for our lives that we would not be ordinary!!! Backpacking the Tetons, flight school at Sheppard, buying the farm,the utter joy we both felt when our children were born and the blessing they have been in our lives. I could name a hundred more. I loved the way you made me feel as soon as I walked in the door and to this day you never fail to move my heart when I look at you.

I can't think of a time that I wished I was on a trip or was on a trip that I wasn't wishing I was home. Never did I feel you were anything other than completely happy in the life we shared.

I stayed because there is a way that you can be happy with me. I stayed because we've been given a way to be to do that. I stayed because of the legacy it will give our children. I stayed because I believe our survival as a couple is our greatest chance of a lasting happeness for both of us.

I apologize to you for my part in creating the environment that helped make your affair with (OM) possible . I was not there to met your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most, and now we are both suffering.

I am willing to do everything I can to create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But I can't do that until you end your relationship with (OM).

Until then I will avoid seeing or talking to you. I also will not be able to support you financially except for some money to help you set up an appartment. I will continue your health insurance. I will continue to fully suuport the kids at school. I have spoken with your brother and he is willing to relay any message you have for me.

I ask that you respect my need to separate from you in this way. You must know that I have be enduring an unbearable level of pain, because of your continuning affair with (OM). I simply can not be with you anymore while you maintain your relationship with him. I still love you but I can't be with you under these conditions. It is harmful to everyone involved including the kids.

I eagerly await your brother's call that you have agreed to have no contact with (OM),and that you have agreed to turning the marriage into something we both enjoy. I stand ready to do everything in my power to be the partner in life that you deserve.

I want us to be able to rebuild our marriage someday. For it to be something beyond both our imaginations, I look foward to the day when we will work together to build a lifestyle that makes us both happy. I want us to be best friends again.

WW,I loved you the day I ask you to marry me on the staff center steps, and I continue to love you right up to this day... I just can not be with you or help you as long as you continue your relationship with (OM).

Thought I would check in a give an update on my trip to Florida with WH, my husband wanted to go to Florida to see if somehow we could come to terms with our marriage breakdown and his affair.....
He has been honest and forthcoming with all the feelings and details of what has happened and I have made it clear what it would take to make things work for me........
I decided to do a Plan A and then make my final decision when I returned home.....try to make it work or separation.........
Plan A went great, we had a lot of fun, he even said it was the best vacation he has ever been on........
He even told me he loves me and wishes he could turn back the time and work things out with me instead of going to someone else.....
It's a lot of things to work out and I have told him any contact with the OW in anyway would be a deal breaker for me, we both have 3 weeks by ourselves to think things through and then a discussion and plan will take place, he has agreed to thearapy as a couple.......
One little bump on the way to Florida, the OW did text him to see how our drive was going, he showed it to me and he wrote her back saying Don't contact me anymore and my wife and I are trying to work things out on our trip. She hasn't contacted him now for 2 weeks........
I am getting ready to compose a Plan B letter, I have some questions for him when I return in regards to his feelings after we have spent time apart.
Depending on his answers I will decide to give him the letter or we will come up with a plan on how to resolve our trust issues..........
He has been great on the trip, very attentive, loving, caring.......we have a had a great physical relationship as well, had fun walking the beach, golfing, going out for drinks and suppers.........
What do you guys think, is this a man that sounds like he might want to work things out? I still don't know what to truly believe, so much self protection going on now............

WHY are you all spending time apart NOW? This is a very bad move...... The vaca was good to help you two develope deposits in the LBs. Time apart NOW will erase all of that. If he wants to work things out now the best way to start is to continue being together...... Time apart from YOU will make him miss HER more and eventually he will cave into the temptation to contact her. He's an addict.....I am confused by this situation to be apart.....

These are the types of things he would be willing to do if he is serious about ending the A and recovering the M:
~ writing a NC letter, using the model Dr Harley has in SAA (we can post it for you)
~ be willing to answer any questions you have about the A
~ change the conditions which facilitated the affair (for example, if they texted each other, change his cell #...if they emailed each other, change the email addy, etc etc)
~ agree to be 100% open and honest and transparent, sharing all passwords with you, accounting for all of his time

Is he willing to do these things?

As I see it Plan B works only if there is ongoing contact with the OW, and you have Plan A'ed yourself to death.

No contact for 2 weeks is good. Why seperate? It also looks like your WH is trying to fix things.

I would suggest spending 20 hours UA together, and read books His Needs Her Needs, and SAA together.

Write a NO CONTACT letter together and send it, just to make sure that the OW understands that your H will not contact her, and that contact from her is not acceptable.

If the vacation went that well then keep it going.

It seems that you did an awesome plan A. bravo !.


Separation doesn't sound like some one want to fix M. I would hand him plan B if he walked out from the house regardless what he says and go very dark Plan B !.

JMVHO. -rh-

not so fun,
I booked this trip away because he originally told me that he was going to move out and be with the other woman...that was way back in Nov.......he told me he told her then that they couldn't see each other anymore because he didn't want to lose his family......he seems sincere and he does seem to understand what he has done and what all this has done to me.....
The OW is away this week and then my husband is away for 2 weeks on a golf holiday with the boys and then we both are back around the same time..

SusieQ,
I think he would be willing to do whatever I asked him to do at this point He knows any contact at this point in any form is a deal breaker for me.....
He has agreed to marriage counselling as well.....

wheels a spinning.....
I think he truly is trying to work things out for us and we are already legally separated by law but still living in the same house, you can do that in Canada, he was suppose to move out but had every excuse as to why he couldn't. I find out now it's because he doesn't want the marriage to end and I think the fog might be lifting because he actually is saying he loves me, he is talking about another trip soon since he loved this one.....
I have asked him to some things that will put an end to the OW's contact with him and have asked for him to go to MC together , he has agreed and knows that any slip up at this point would mean the end without anymore chances...

Hopefully he IS trying to work things out. Is he willing to write a no contact letter to the OW?

believer,
Yes he is willing to end things with the OW with whatever means he can....
the problem is he works with her but right now she is mad and is looking for work elsewhere, I'm praying that happens, my hubby is a lawyer and she is one of the law clerks.....touchy situation for him.......we have heard from a mutual friend that she is already looking for work elsewhere...I'm praying that happens......
He told me he feels guilty about what he has done and feels bad for her and her family as well.
I told him I would not tolerate him even being friends with her and that it would be up to him to show me what kind of man he really is if he wants this marriage to work.
I truly believe he is willing to do this, he said he is truly in love with me.
He has agreed to MC as well

my husband has decided that he is going to end it with the OW he has told her via text message, she is away and then told me he will speak to her next week in person..
He said he is committed to our relationship and that I need to trust him
Why do I feel so insecure about them meeting and discussing things/
I feel like the day I found out about her.....
anyone experience this?
I'm separated from him right now for a couple of weeks.......
I need a hug so bad I want to trust him.....

He should NOT meet with her in person - period. Tell him that you want him to write a letter of NO CONTACT, that you want to read it, and that you will mail it. That this letter will be the last contact between the two of them, and that this is it, period. There cannot be a "last meeting", because this is an invitation for good-bye sex. Tell him that if he insists on meeting with her, then she can come to a parking lot at a grocery store to receive the NC letter from the two of you, and you WILL ATTEND THAT MEETING.

There will be NO PRIVATE MEETING between the two of them.

And expose this affair to her husband - today - without warning - if you haven't already done it.

Trusting him at this point, would be a mistake.

My ex had lots of breaking up boinks, err, "meetings" with the OW. Ask him to write her a NC letter saying the affair was a horrible mistake, unfair to you, that he loves you and wants no contact with her forever for any reason.

If he says the letter is pointless, that it would hurt her, that he needs to do this his own way, that he needs closure, blah, blah, blah, then tell him to contact you when he is willing to take the steps necessary to save the marriage. Tell him that when that day comes, if your feelings haven't changed, you will be willing to talk to him.

thanks for the responses, the news of his affair is out there already the OW's husband took care of letting everyone know.......
I know I can't trust him yet, I don't I think when something like this happens you may never fully trust anyone again......
It's a good idea that I go to that meeting with her to end things, thanks for the suggestion

Yeah !

Invite OW's husband to join you too.

LOL, Pep, why didn't I think of that?????????

I donno.

Jess, when an adulterer goes to see their adultery partner for "closure", it always results in "closure SEX" and always riles up the affair! You should bring along the whole family, most especially the OWH! Make it a big happy party.
You can all get "closure" together.


And, your H can't object to that, since he is promising to do nothing wrong!

The concept of closure is so stupid to me.

There is never anything "closed" in an affair.

Especially for the BS. This is wide open like a gaping wound for a very lonnnnngggg time.

Closure. That's just crappola. It's a code-word for "I just need more time to get a fix of my heroin."

But I feel so cute and clever when I say it, SB. I read that lofty sounding term in my Cosmo magazine right after the horoscopes.

<valley gurl squeek>

EGG ZAK LEE

Er, then how about closing the door, as in d i v o r c e.

Larry

You should NEVER TRUST him if he wants to go see some woman. That is untrustworthy behavior. That is like me asking you to "trust me" to go drunk driving!

trust me!! I am a great drunk driver!

If you do want do know what happens if you allow this "closure" then read my answer to a similar story:

It was one of the BIGGEST mistakes I did when I went to say goodbye to OM. It hurt my H a lot. And the feelings of regret and guilt have not left me since then, although it happened more than a year and a half ago.
My suggestion to you - don't by any chance let it happen and back it with actions. Warn OW's husband that your H plans to do this, maybe he can help to avoid it. And give your H an ultimatum - the prerequisite for me to even consider to start thinking of rebuilding our M with you again is you NOT to meet her EVER again.

Well as some of you know, my husband had an affair and has now changed his mind and has asked me to re-consider working on our marriage, he has broken off with the OW, gave me all his passwords, requested phone records to come to me, has agreed to marriage therapy, he has agreed to leave separation agreement in place until I feel some level of trust again......says he is sorry and that he doesn't like himself much for doing what he has done to me and our boys.......I don't have a lot of trust at this point but I'm willing to see where it all goes with the work he says he is willing to do.
The OW is a bit of a problem, she is telling her friends she is suicidal I just hope she goes away and lets us heal now.....my husband says she will eventually give up if he doesn't respond to her in anyway........he is being honest with me and he realizes it will take time and patience to get through this and keep saying that he loves me and that I will see that he means what he says and that I can trust him.........
I still have a lot of doubts and questions myself, it's fear of putting yourself out there again, I guess it all just takes time to believe and trust again......
I'm begining to think this whole thing will go on forever.......
Trying to be patient, need some encouragement I guess.

Oh, wawawa. Ah, well, feeling bad IS a hazard of Affairing. She'll have to get over that the best way she can. Not your problem.

More importantly: Has your WH sent a NC letter? Have all ties to OW been severed completely?

It would help if you used one of your old threads to post. That way someone would know your story before they started posting their support.

You can always ask the mods to combine your threads: click on notify and make the request.

Larry

Time for you to read up a little on the problem of


false recovery

My best advise?

Call Harley counseling center for recovery coaching.

There is a GOOD amount of hope in your situation.
Set the bar HIGH.
And get yourselves some awesome marriage recovery coaching.

Absolutely, TOTALLY, 100% agree. Call the Harleys for MC...it will help you avoid a FR.

P.S. And too bad for the OW...soooo many of them threaten this (ours did...it's a fantastic manipulation tool and a last-ditch, desperate attempt to hold on to something that they knew they never "had" in the first place).

Ignore her. Why does your H even know this??? There should be absolutely, positively NC or you are in for a nightmare of a FR.

hey pepper, going to book some therapy for me and us as a couple. I also have access to his accounts and will be receiving phone records I'm also thinking of putting a gps in his car to make sure there is no contact.......
I'm trying to believe he means what he says, but when something like this happens you doubt everything........I have left the door open for him to go all this time, he has chosen not to go and to end things with the OW. He has even had a conversation with his mother about working things out with me and he said they were all very happy that he had come to the realization that his marriage was the most important thing.......he is saying all the right things now, doing the right things, is very understanding when I question anything or ask any questions about his feelings about me, us the other woman, how he feels about himself........he is being honest even though some of it hurts, he keeps telling me that he will prove to me he is the man I used to believe in and that he understands now what he was about to lose and what he did was not worth any of the pain he has caused his family........
He said he is in love with me and that he was sorry he ever said he didn't love me.
I'm going to read the article on false recovery and I will of course keep my ears and eyes open.........trust will come in time, I didn't make any promises I said I would see how comfortable I can get with the new effort on his part, I told him I am ready to walk if anything else happens and he knows that I mean it.......we already have worked out all the details in a separation agreement and he is still paying me alimony while we work things out, my decision until I feel secure enough to re-connect on that level, he understands and realizes it's up to him to re-build the trust and security I need to feel...........
he says he sees and realizes what kind of woman I am and he will do what it takes to re-build.......
I'm sleeping with one eye open for now......

OWs do not actually kill themselves.
They threaten all the time.

Yes they do and they just end up looking even dumber than the first time they dropped their panties.

thank god, thanks for all your help with my situation, you have always given me something to research and consider.

Do yourself a favor, jessi and don't even bother with traditional MC. We've seen countless cases around here (and I can personally tesify) to what a waste traditioncal MCs are in dealing with affairs.

Save yourself a boatload of grief and counsel only with the Harleys.

thanks for the advice, my hubby is away on a boy's golf holiday for a couple of days, when he returns I will discuss that options with him, I have read all the Harley's stuff and I have tried to follow the suggestions and just also did what I thought would work, I think giving him the freedom to go and being his safe place to be was the key. When he knew he would have the freedom to go if he chose to with the OW, it's like he didn't want to, I think if I had made him go, he might have gone with her because he would have no choice but to follow through on what he started, it was a big risk I know but I was willing to let him go if that is what he chose, when it came down to it, having the choice to walk isn't always what they want.........

Jessi.

Are you sure that the counseling is legit? Many of them are more divorce counselors than marriage. They are awful. Is it Christian based and if so, is it certified by Family Dynamics?

Here is the link for Dr. Harley's thoughts on selecting a marriage counselor.

Click me

Larry

hey Larry,
I haven't booked anything as of yet, but the counsellor I'm thinking about is a Christian Counselor. I live in Canada but I will discuss the options with my husband and see what we decide together, I'm thinking that he needs to go and figure out what in him made him go outside our marriage vows and I need to go to figure out how to re-build trust and we need to go so we can listen to each other and figure out together why and how we got to this point and how to fix and improve our relationship........I want to make sure it's all for the right reasons....

The Harley's cover every.single.one.of.these.concerns. And then some. And they do it with a tried-and-trusted PLAN that's worked for hundreds (thousands?) of couples. This is what they DO ~ help couples recover from affairs.

Why are you asking a WAYWARD what he wants to do in order to recover from his A??? His "best thinking" got him into this mess! This would be like asking an alcoholic what HE thinks the best plan for getting clean would be. How can a drunk decide such a thing when he's DRUNK out of his mind?

Hokay!

While I will ALWAYS recommend Dr. Harley's coaching center with either Steve or Jennifer, I have been told that Family Dynamics is authorized by Dr. Harley to certify counselors. They are in Tennessee, but they also have a Canadian Coordinator.

This is a Christian Organization if you prefer that route. I suspect that the Christian association is why Dr. Harley is working with them in some form. He seems to prefer a more secular approach for his own center, although I have seen references to his wife working within a Christian group, which indicates they are a Christian couple.

Do go the separate route as Dr. Harley recommends. You avoid confessing each others sins that way.

Larry

Now that I have the counseling thing out of the way, let me chime in with support for what marriedforever has to say about your comments.

I don't understand your comment, "for the right reasons."

If you are still searching for why he did it, I don't understand. Are you not in agreement with MB concepts on this? Have you read the concepts on why?

Also, the trust angle is also covered here. Have you read about that? What don't you understand?

Larry

married forever,
what I meant was which marriage counselor would work best for us...he has already agreed to the work ahead of us. He understands what damage he has caused and has suggested the help, he thinks we can't get through it ourselves and wants to get some great help so we can over come the trust issue now that face us.

hey Larry thanks for your response and help.
I guess I worded my statement the wrong way. I understand why it happened and what the two of us need to do now to make our marriage better and re-build the trust that we have damaged.....
I guess that's where faith and a great counselor will come into play, to give us the strength to not be afraid to trust and believe in each other again.......
I guess my fears just show through from time to time,

Well, hmmmmm.....

See, Dr. Harley says don't trust. You have read that part, right?

I dunno if he says it or not, but the only trust I think is appropriate in a marriage is the trust you have for the way you feel and the trust you have for the REASONS you feel the way you feel. ???

Or that you trust your mate to be good with the kids, or whatever, not trust they won't screw up, because if you trust too much there, you give them room to do exactly that, screw up. This doesn't mean you get up in the night and check underwear stains. It means that you take precautions that neither of you has the opportunity to jump the boundaries.

Lemme share with you something. I didn't trust my wife. I knew she was vulnerable (aren't we all), so I only trusted her with one person, one person only, my closest living relative, the last of my family except for me, who I trusted with my life.

Larry

Hi Jess! Hopefully this counselor understands that trust is NOT the issue but rather a lack of boundaries. You shouldn't trust your husband. It it too much trust that causes affairs. If people would trust LESS, there would be fewer affairs.

It is better to focus on establishing rational boundaries and setting up a lifestyle that makes it impossible [almost] to have an affair. For example, never spending the night apart again, having completely transparent lifestyles, avoiding all opposite sex friendships. This means avoiding risky behavior that leads to affairs.

*It is not a lack of trust that destroys marriages, but a lack of boundaries.

ok, I don't see anything here that indicates he is serious about recovery. What causes you to believe he is serious? Traveling apart is an invitation to an affair. Has he ended his affair by sending the OW a no contact letter? What is your recovery plan?

I would suggest you are probably headed for a false recovery in the absence of any kind of rational plan.

oh boy.. This is bad.

Larry, I've always been a person who believes in what I feel and what I can live with within my own right from wrong.....I don't think we truly trust anyone totally......I just want to set some respectful boundries between us so that we understand what will hurt the other and make the effort to not go to any of those places again......I am a very observant type of person, I'm always watching and learning. I must admit that before all this happened I think I did trust to much, I never dreamed my husband was capable of breaking our marriage vows. I guess I believed that his way of thinking was like mine, but it wasn't so.....
I don't think I will ever trust like that again, but I do want to get to a peaceful place for both of us, already we have become better friends than we were a year ago.......I can see that we can get to a better place, but no fear that I'm a fool and can't see that humans make mistakes and screw up from time to time.......

melodylane,
I guess I'm wording things wrong, setting boundries is the key to our recovery. I agree you need to stay on your toes with the trust issues and for sure I think I did trust to much before my hubby's affair, that's is my fault in this whole thing, if I had paid a little more attention and set a few boundries back then who knows if things would have turned out like they did.
My husband has given me complete transparency now and he has agreed to never putting himself in any kind of position to be around any other female except me......he is away with his father and brother to watch the Master's golf tournament, I think he is in safe company this time....I'm not worried.....

Jess, Dr Harley is a clinical psychologist who has saved thousands of marriages using these concepts and here is what he says about recovery from an affair below. I will attest to his words as someone who has saved her own marriage from an affair. The ones who follow these words to the letter are the ones who make it:

here

Melody Lane,
I believe he is serious about recovery, he has come to this decision on his own, he is being completely transparent now, he has ended the affair with the NC letter.......We plan on going to marriage therapy together and he is no longer going to be apart from me for any reasons, we will always go together never on our own again.......we are working on our communication skills and filling each others needs.....we are discussion how to handle our conflicts and are working on a plan so things don't build up......he is away with his father and brother now and I feel he is safe with them........he says he realizes how much he has hurt me and he says he going to prove to me I can believe in him and our marriage again.......but don't fear I always sleep with one eye open

And yet, he is out of town and you are still separated. Those are not the actions of someone who is involved in recovery. If I say I am going to fix my car, which is in the garage, but I go to Cleveland, am I serious about recovery or are my actions defying my words?

There is not a plan of recovery in place.

Working on "communication skills" and conflict management is cute and trendy to say, but is not a plan of recovery from an affair. A plan of recovery would involve a) affair proofing your marriage and b) having an effective plan that will create romantic love.

I am not trying to throw a wet blanket on your hopes, but I am ALARMED, and so are others, at your lack of a plan here. We are trying to help you avoid one of the most painful things of all: a false recovery.

Not in this lifetime.

Let me bring up the counseling thing again, even more forcefully. If you MUST have a Christian Counselor, your ONLY option is Family Dynamics to the best of my knowledge.

Otherwise, go directly to Dr. Harley's coaching center. They do coaching over the phone and it works great.

I have seen (And Mel has seen many more) inept marriage counselor stories on here to the point where I want to puke.



One more thing. I see bits and pieces of MB concepts from you, but not the detailed knowledge I would hope you would acquire and use. You need it for your PLAN!

Larry

Jess, has your husband moved home?

The Harleys are ALL CHRISTIANS and MB is a Christian program.

I have not had the benefit of taking the MB course or weekend, so I will simply bow to Mel's greater knowledge. I wouldn't think of recommending anyone other than the Harley's in primary position. I was told that Dr. Harley had authorized FDI to certify coaches in his concepts. So I did a knee jerk reflex answer I cannot take back, but wish I could.

Sorry.

Larry

Larry, I think the confusion lies in the fact that he doesn't present MB as a Christian program, per se, although he is a Christian and his program is Christian based. My old church back in East Texas, used his program exclusively and that is how I ended up here. We have several people on this forum who teach MB in their own churches.

I did not know that he had authorized FDI to certify coaches in his concepts but that is good to know!

Mel:

I ran smack into some garbage about Harley being a cult, which I forcefully rejected. So I sought more information. I was told by someone I trust that the good Dr. had authorized FDI and found his stuff all over their site, but I do not have first hand knowledge.

If you find out for sure, let me know. That would help me to talk to a couple of local pastors who are currently eat up with ignorance. One MB forum person told me about it and I double checked with a pastor here who HAS used MB concepts and was told that he got it from FDI. That is somewhat of a confirmation, but not really. I should have kept my mouth shut.

Thanks

Larry

Larry, that sounds perfectly in line with what I have heard around here. He has authorized many churches to teach and use his program. He gave special permission to several around here, Mark, BigKahuna, BobPure to just name a few.

Ok, but the key difference is that FDI is not an individual. They are a long time and well respected source for Christian teachings.

Thanks

Larry

end thread jack...

MelodyLane,

This is my story, I found out in Nov that my husband had an affair, he has never moved out, at the time I said if she is what you want and need then I would set him free, we signed a separation agreement and I went to the bank changed all the accounts we told our families and our kids we were going to separate, everything was set and all he had to do was move out and get on with his life with the OW. I booked a trip to Florida just to r-group my thoughts for my future, he had every excuse as to why he couldn't find a place, but I was patient and just said that while I was away he could move out with a family member while he continued to look......
He ask if he could join me in Florida so we could talk things through, I wasn't sure why but I said yes, we had a great time together and came out better friends then we have been in years......
He was only there for 2 weeks and then he went back home, before he left he told me that he was wrong and that he didn't want the marriage to end and that he loved me and that he was going to tell the OW that he was going to work at his marriage instead of continuing his relationship with her......and that is what he has done, when I returned he agreed to all my requests about therapy, no contact and he gave me all his passwords and gave me his word he would never go anywhere without me again, he would never put himself in a position again with any other female.......we have met each others needs since I found out about the affair, he stopped going out at night, we ate all our meals together. we have talked about what was missing for each of us it's almost like he realized right from the get go and just waited for me to calm down and more open to listening to his feelings, he now says he made a mistake and wants to fix things between us, it's me who has doubts about putting myself out there again.......I don't mind the wet blanket, I haven't been to a therapy session yet, so what would the plan be if you were me.

t/j Okay. I know that DrH is Christian. He is also a GENIUS. He knows that he isn't going to go around "preaching" to everyone about religion. That would alienate many people. This way it is about MARRIAGE and not religion(most times they are mutually exclusive however). t/j over

Larry,

My understanding is that FDI is certified to train facilitators for marriage ministry including weekend seminars designed to save troubled marriages, 8 week courses designed to teach MB (and other material) methods to couples and they offer a home study course similar to Dr Harley's.

From what I have ascertained, they do not offer training to counselors as a matter of course, but many counselors do attend their training sessions.

The weekend training for their certification to run the eight week course is 600 dollars plus room and board. (this is for couples to learn to lead a marriage ministry in their home church). They do use Dr Harley's materials for this course and for the eight week class that the couple is certified to teach.

At least that is the way I understand it since I have been trying to raise the money to attend their training since I first heard about it. I do have a contact at FDI that I communicate with periodically. Thus far all I have for sure is what I have been given and what I have read on their website.

I found out about them through someone who attended my class last fall. They attended Dr Harley's MB weekend last March and checked with Dr Harley and or MB staff to find a source of training and certification to offer to me to help me in establishing our marriage ministry. They told me about FDI being certified by Dr Harley. From communications with my liaison there, I am given the same information though they make no claim to be the only certified group as I was told by my contact who contacted MB staff.

My understanding is that this couple at least reads here and may be posters, one or both of them. I had at least three couples from MB at that first class and only know the posting names of one couple.

And I ain't saying...

Mark

[/tj]

Ok, lets move this to my posting thread.

Sorry Jessi, we all think this is important.

Larry

not a problem, interesting topic

I've been to three Christian marriage counselors. None of them worked. The fact that they were Christians did not give them the ability to save our marriage.

I am aware of Family Dynamics and from what I know I think I can highly recommend them.

But I have personally counseled with Steve Harley, and he has talked to us about church, the Bible, and lessons about love from Jesus in the book of Revelation. Sounds like Christian counseling to me. Christian, anyway. He's more of a coach than a counselor. I might not go to Steve for all my theology questions, but he's certainly aligned enough to my beliefs of right and wrong that we've never had any problem with his coaching.

Steve's grandfather was a minister who counseled couples in the 1940's. He saved marriages counseling from the Bible with a message of unconditional commitment and sacrifice. Steve's father Dr. Willard Harley tried the same approach with friends 20 years later ... and discovered that things seemed to be failing. Even his own pastor's marriage was wrecked by an affair as Willard Harley tried to counsel them. He was mystified as to what was wrong ... and dedicated his life to finding out. He did find out, and the result is this program. He did not compromise his religious beliefs in any way I know in finding out what had changed and how he needed to counsel differently. His son and daughter have followed in his footsteps and counsel using the same principles.

All of this story is told in more detail in Dr. Willard Harley's book, Effective Marriage Counseling, in the introduction. You can actually go to Amazon.com, enter "Effective Marriage Counseling," and read inside the book; read the first few pages, and you will read this story.

Marriage Builders is completely in line with my evangelical Christian beliefs, and I'd be happy to show you that from the Bible if you have any objections.


Yes, you need to LEARN! Read EVERYTHING on this site! And every book you can get your hands on!

Markos, Dr Harley told me to my face at the MB weekend, very matter of factly, that he got this program in a "prophecy from God."

And I believe it.

Jessi - go read

Larry

and I believe him.

Wow. That's a new one for me.

I know that FDI uses language like "the wise insights God gave Dr. Harley to practically apply the Golden Rule to marriages." http://www.familydynamics.net/whatdowomenwant.htm That's a slightly weaker claim, and fine for me.

Looking for stories on how your WS ended it and if there were any difficulties after and if so what did you do and how long did it last.
Do they usually just accept and move on?

My WW met her other man when she was out at the bars "with her friends". It turned into a 6-month fling with occasional meetings, usually when she was "going out with friends", and possibly other times when she would invent reasons to leave the house. Other times it was just a lot of text messages and phone calls.

The morning I found out (checked her cell phone messages after she came home at 4:00 A.M.), it turns out that they had a little spat at the bar where I believe she was cramping his style. It was a little over a week later that I exposed and called the OM. He basically said that WW was not his type, too old for him, and had been pestering him a lot. I don't know how much of that to believe. He agreed to cut it off with her and did as soon as we hung up.

My WW went about a week with no contact, then started texting and calling again. I ended up busting her meeting at his house one morning while I was at work. She claims it was for "closure" and so they could part as friends. That was nearly a month ago. I've seen a touch of squirrely behavior since then, but haven't found any contact.

I'd like nothing more than to believe he had tired of her and she was cramping his style, especially with me calling him, so he ended it.

Or she could just be deep undergound. I'm not 100% convinced that this isn't the case, yet.

My FWH wrote the OW an email and said it was over. I did not read it, which was possibly my mistake, but I know he did not lead her on. They ended up talking for an hour before his phone died, which I DON'T recommend the WS doing btw, but I didn't get the NC rule in place fast enough. I ease-dropped on their conversation and he was indeed telling her it was over. She just wasn't getting the clue, but she's young and dumb, so I'll forgive her that.

The OW did NOT take it lightly.... 50 phone calls, 14 emails, and a text message the first day after his phone died, then about 10 emails the second with a few phone calls that were ignored, and a couple the third and fourth day along with a few more phone calls. It's finally tapered off since I emailed her and told her to knock it off. She didn't like that one much, apparently had a breakdown, as we found out from a voicemail from a friend of hers. We haven't heard from her since.

Eventually the OW will accept it I think, especially as long as WS keeps to the NC rule. My H has done great with the NC. The OW will eventually get it. Won't like it, but oh well, too bad so sad. Don't get involved with someone who's married!

... sorry, I'm a bit unsympathetic at my FWH's OW....

My WW found 2 OM on World of Warcraft. The first time I just asked her for no contact, but she interpreted it as no more sexting. The relationship lasted about one more month before she agreed to completly cut it off.

Instead of taking precautions to affair proof her marriage she began to talk to a male friend about her loss, and started a new, more intimate affair.

This time we both went to a marriage counselor, but she refused all counsel because she was in an affair. The MC basically said I can't help you if you are in an affair.

I then found MB and did a nuclear exposure a couple weeks later. she went ballistic saying you ruined everything, our marriage is over, I don't love you....etc.

The next day she flew to Colorado to spend time with her sister, but her sister took away her phone, computer usage, gave her a couple religious books to read, and marital books to read. My WW somehow quickly had a change of heart, she missed me, and decided that an affair wasn't worth her kids and 8 years of a good marriage to a good man, and that we could work it out.

When she got home I had already dismantled her computer and turned it into a media center for the whole house, she deleted her facebook account, we unsubscribed to WoW, we put parental controls on my computer for her to use it at certain times of the day, agreed to get MC, read Dr. Harley books, and to spend at least 20 hours of UA together.

Sometimes we take a couple steps back into our old habits, but we realize them and work at our marriage again. It has been 5 weeks since exposure, and things are as good as our Honeymoon. My family and her family do not bring it up to me, even though they know everything, because they see that we are happy and working on our marriage.

The worse consequence is I miss playing my video games, but I get to retain my marriage to a wife I love. Is that really a consequence?

Errr - quickest way to defog a WW...have the OM assult her and leave her bruised and shaken - works real well..ask me...I know. NC not an issue - unless you count the fact I would happly drop him with my 223 if ever I got him in my sights...just saying.

Wow, Wheels! That is one of the best testimonials I have read here! Means a lot to me since I got to watch you go through a lot of this here just recently. I am glad to hear you say things are going so great, and I look forward to continuing to hear you speak of increasing marital happiness over the years.

Well, there's FWW's version, and what I expect is the real version of how it ended. In the real version, I think the OM simply got tired of using my FWW as a standby vagina with its own life-support. The A was ending by the time my FWW confessed to me, hoping that I'd opt for D, leaving her free to pursue the OM. I opted instead to try recovering our M. She had one last "closure meeting" with the OM, worked with him for a few months while he flaunted another OW in front of her before quitting her job, and that was that. Well, at least as far as I know. She is quite good at hiding things from me, so who really knows...

My h ended it when he took his head out of his [censored] and decided he wanted his marriage. (Basically when i went to Plan B even though i did not know that is what it was at that time)

She did not take it well and continued to persue him until he had to go to his HR department and file "sexual harrassment" against her. Then she still tried contacting him for a while after that.

okay this.
my husband had an affair, we have talked non stop since then, he is showing regret and admits that it wasn't worth losing me or his family over....
I have agreed to some thearapy sessions and I have agreed to giving our marriage another shot.
For the most it is great so far, he is being the best husband he has ever been. We are getting along great.
There is only one catch, he has ended it with the OW weeks ago. He told her there was no hope for her and him and that he loved me and that we were again husband and wife in every way and that he was very happy and grateful that I have given him another opportunity to show me what kind of man he can be for his family.
The thing is she is calling at night when she is drunk and telling him to "F**K Off" or calling and not saying anything, we know it's her, call display.....
I have been answering the phone and I have asked her to leave us alone and respect our marriage.....
How long is this going to last? Anyone else have a nut case on their hands.......open to any suggestions on how to deal with her without involving the law.
I just want to work on my marriage which is difficult after an affair as it is, sometimes I don't think this whole mess will ever be over and we can actually breathe easy.......
I'm trying to be supportive of my husband's feelings, he is feeling guilt but is not answering her or corresponding to her, he knows that will only stop her from moving on.........
He is still feeling the effects of the affair in the business world hearing lots of stories about the affair and what kind of man people think he is.....
Yesterday was a bad day.....

First, JT, could you please stick to one thread. There are a lot of people on here and we can't always remember who is at what point in their journey. All of your relevant info and the advice you have already been given is on the other thread.

Now, as far as your sitch, BLOCK HER NUMBER. NC means NC. That includes you. Every time OW calls you and you answer the phone and then discuss this with WH, gives him a tiny "hit". He knows that she is still thinking about him. She may actually cause him to feel so much guilt that he will get back into the A. How do you know that there is NC?

I'd just change my phone number. That is the first step.

Could you please hit the notify button and ask the mods to combine your threads? That way we will all know your whole story and be able to help you.

thanks Scotland,
I have notified the mods to combine my threads.....makes sense.....
I guess you are right, no contact means me as well.....
We have talked his guilt to death and he feels bad because he was the pursuer in that relationship but he said he won't ever act on it in any way, he totally understands what he needs to do. He knows that would end any shot he had at making our relationship work and keeping his family together... She doesn't seem to want to let go......We will try just not answering her calls and we have already blocked our cell phones from her #.
I guess if we have to we could call her father and ask him to speak to her about respecting our marriage see if he has an influence over her.
Or we can hope she stops drinking........haha!!!

Can you have the phone number blocked like scotty said by the phone company?

She will have to process what she percieves as being abandoned and every time she makes that connection by calling you guys it just prolongs the process emotionally for her. Of course the drinking will also do the same.

Has the affair been exposed publicly? Do you have support from the father?

If she is receptive of the fathers influence then maybe it would help her but that would be you reaching out to her life which means you were breaking No contact rule yourself. I wouldn't think that was a good idea. You would be inserting yourself into her personal life. But if he is on the side of doing what is right for his daughter and helping her start thinking straight it could be an option.

His involvment would have to be in the spirit of what is right for everyone involved and not percieved as him taking sides of course