Wife and I are both 33. We have a 2 year old son. Probably about six months ago I began to notice signs that something wasn't right.

She has worked for the same small business for a long time. One of her co-workers is a successful guy about our age. They have worked together for almost 10 years. I know that she considers him her best "work friend".

She has a high stress job but she began to work later and later. It was a very slow progression. At first she was working late and staying 30 minutes or an hour. But it became two hours late nearly every day. A few days she stayed three hours or more late. (Probably only two or three times). Plus a work party that she stayed an hour or so later than expected.

She also pulled away from me. Intimacy was rare and always initiated by me. It seemed that we were always arguing about something. (Not huge fights, but we were both annoyed at each other).

Once I saw that she was wearing much cuter underwear than she normally does. I felt she acted weird when I commented on it. I wasn't negative about it, just a little surprised. She said it was for my enjoyment, but I only noticed when she changed out of her work clothes into her pajamas. Another time after a party she was drunk and started crying saying that our relationship is doomed to fail. This is very unlike her. She said she was sorry the next morning.

There have been a few other small things that have happened that I would normally not think twice about but have been obsessing over.

In April I brought up my concerns to her. She seemed surprised but agreed that she has been distant. She said that it was because I was not meeting her needs. I agree and since then have been a better husband. (I am a great dad, but I have been neglectful of my wife). I felt that she acted guilty when I confronted her.

I can't shake the feeling in my gut that something happened which caused her to pull away. I bring it up again in May, and she denies and gets a bit annoyed.

Since then I discovered MB. I have been reading up and am in a strong plan A. She now comes home on time. We don't seem to bicker like we did. I am beginning to understand how to meet my wife's emotional needs. I want our marriage to work and have let her know.

I have also snooped on her phone and email, but have found nothing. Not a single scrap of evidence. Although I don't have access to her work computer. It does appear that she erased her Amazon history which is unusual. She loves online shopping and orders a lot of stuff.

So two nights ago she brings up a work even in August. At first it is a three day event she will be required to attend. Now it is a three day event at a hotel out of town. I know OM will be there and I let her know I'm not feeling comfortable with this. She asks if I don't trust her. I stick to letting her know how much I love her. She asks what she can do to make me believe her. She says I can talk to OM if I want. I decline.

I let her know that I feel like I am going crazy. I desperately want to believe her, but I can't shake my gut feeling. Is this normal? I feel like I may never know what happened. I would rather find out that she had A then feel the way I feel right now.

I guess my next step is VAR in car and continue plan A. I want this to work but I desperately want to know if something happened.

Maybe I'm going crazy, maybe not...

the real McCoy's will be along shortly but in the meantime why don't you suggest this "Business" trip would be a good opportunity for some closeness for the both of you. Suggest you get a sitter and both of you go on this trip, what a fantastic idea!

I agree. Go with. And I think the VAR is good idea as well.

Thanks for the response. I'll try that route, she won't go for it though. She is selling this as a "business retreat". All of the executives are supposed to go and get away from all distractions.

I'm surprised that she is willing to be away from our DS for three days. I had to talk her into an overnight trip for just the two of us for our anniversary. We were away from him for less than 24 hours. (This was when things were at there worst between us).

can't shake the feeling in my gut that something happened which caused her to pull away. Trust your gut! You just got a wake up call of some kind???.
1)Update your snooping methods. Can you get to her work PC? Also what phone does she use? Tag the home PC with keylogger TODAY! Go to Office max ETC and buy it. Var...YES TODAY!
Dont let on and withhold any suspicions for now.
Gut feelings is how most of us got here. Many red fags here saying EA or a PA. Now its really time to truly verify by snooping. Transparency is a must in any M so you have the right to this info.
Get this started NOW. If you can hire a PI do it, if you cant get the job done yourself. Educate yourself heavily on PI tactics by key-wording and reading up on surveillance. If your just Ok tech savvy you can do this by yourself.
Again remain calm and normal as you can. If you verify there is an ongoing EA or PA there are additional steps.
Order Surviving an Affair here from the bookstore and start reading it as well just in case. Still a great read!
If your W is in a EA or PA prepare to go to war with the plans that will be given by the vets. I hope its early on and there's no hard damage but something is up. Right now you need to identify what or whom the enemy is.
If its a lack of a marital Plan to meet each others EN's use His Needs Her Needs/Love busters as your bible.Meet her needs extraordinarily well starting NOW. If its an A and you wish to recover use SSA as your bible. I hope for the best case and so should you. But IDENTIFY what the target is first by SNOOPING YOUR @S$ OFF!!
I didnt like none of this advice when I first showed up here either. Made my heart pound. But if you really want to make your M work it is WORK. And if you two have let intuition drive the M so far. Its time to change that and work a plan!

Yeah, my FWW was really good at hiding and getting rid of evidence as well.

Trust your gut. If it says that there's an A going on, there's likely an A going on.

Do you have a keylogger on her PC? You might be checking one e-mail address, while she's using others for contacting the OM. It's not likely that she will only use the office computer for contact.

Dont worry about August trip BTW not yet. Drop it its a non issue ATM.

Thanks for the response. I really appreciate it. I don't have access to her work computer. Her phone is set up on the company plan so I can't access the bill. I do know the code to get into the phone but I can't find anything. Her work email is hooked up, but only the inbox. One of her duties at work is email review, so she knows it isn't secure. At this point my only hope is VAR. She would never suspect it.

It feels REALLY good to get all of this off my chest. I have lost 10 pounds the last month and can't sleep. At first, I thought I was going crazy, but the more I read here the more I trust my instincts.

I have a question though. Next time she brings it up, should I just tell her I have worked it out and I trust her again?

No key logger yet. I will look into it. Probably won't reveal much. We rarely use our home PC. My gut tells me everything is done while at work. VAR will probably give me the best results.

Thanks again!

GPS in the car? Spy Stick on work cell phone?

DO NOT LET ON!!!!! Blow off the trip any way you see it dis-alarms her. Do not alarm her.
Work phone is a Droid? Blackberry???? Regardless of whom is paying the bill it can be compromised by many programs and relayed all text/email to 3rd party site. U need 10 minutes to install it. Var is a must, Voice activated and find a secret spot. U may have to try under seat/dash. Get a third party GPS as well and place it in her trunk if a car (spare tire areas)
Go to your PHD and get some meds. 10 Lbs isnt good. Remember animal needs, food, water and rest.
Nope your not crazy.

Keylogger on home PC's today and BTW how long have you been married?

Thanks everyone. She has a blackberry through work.

I will get VAR set up asap. I'll also look into GPS for car. The last few weeks she has been home at normal time and acting as if everything is ok. She is quick to point that out. I really want to believe her. But my gut is saying "not so fast".

Have you checked out the Spying forum.
That should be your next stop. Read and Read and Read.

Do not let her know anything has changed! Do not let her know about this forum under any circumstances. This place will be your lifeline, and the place that gives you a strategy and a plan. Do not reveal it to her.


Get the VAR going. And prepare yourself for the worst.
Stay calm and don't confront her. Too many times, the betrayed husband tips his hand, and the wife learns how to cover her tracks better.

What state are you in? You might want to study up on some of the laws on custody and divorce.

There is another great thread for men about "DON'T LEAVE YOUR HOME"....

Married 6. Together 10. The first few years were long distance.

Thanks Lexxxy. I will be very careful going forward. I will re-read the snooping forum.

Once they suspect that you are awake they usually do this type of thing. Shes worried and that's not good either. BB's can be tapped by spycell ETC. Force pushed from your pc onto the BB via USB. It will then relay all text/emails/calllog to the spy site. It also has a GPS feature. Is she guarding the BB or have it PW protected?

Another reason that I feel I'm going crazy. She is not overly protective of her phone. I have done a lot of snooping on it, but haven't found anything. Nothing at all. She even commented on the fact that she is never on her phone when she is home. It's true. She doesn't text. She doesn't take random "work" calls and step out of the room. I don't know.

I do know I feel a lot better getting all of this off my chest. It has been a tough few months.

The VAR is the best suggestions, and perhaps the GPS tracker as well.

The Ronald Reagan school here said it best, "Trust but verify."

You've been given some solid suggestions, take action.

On the contrary, I suggest that you strongly indicate that you are not "OK" with her travelling to some hotel out of state where the OM will be present and you will not allow her to convince you otherwise.

For now, I will back off the August trip. My only evidence is my gut.

However I will ramp up my spying between now and then. Once I have real evidence, I will drop the hammer. Hard.

mobistealth for the blackberry it takes about 5 minutes. - it also has GPS on it.

put iepassview on your home computer to see if she has any other email accounts.- free

does she access her work email from home? keylogger, with screenshots

The best thing u can do is super snoop with tools. Plan A part of No love busting and meeting her needs. Prepare for the worst and the exposure process of a one fail swoop exposure campaign. Nuclear war exposure if its proven a EA?PA? or nothing? At least your prepared to fight the fight on all the fields.

Thanks chickadee

My guess is a second, "secret" phone.

Go with the GPS and VAR.

Remember if you find anything out don't confront her come back here and work on putting a plan together to save your marriage.....
Good luck

SoCal, you're getting a lot of good advice re: VARs, GPSs, keyloggers, etc. Great stuff for those who feel up to it. There's even a separate thread here for that kind of stuff that you can set up on a D-I-Y basis.

But if stress is one of the things you're fighting, you might want to consider outsourcing the snooping, to a competent private investigator. It'll cost ya some, but it takes some of the pressure off you.

It's how my other woman's husband found her out. Which meant that our affair was found out. Which sucked at the moment, but which I now consider to be one of the very best breaks I've ever gotten in life (next to my wife keeping me despite all the crap I put her through), because it helped snap me off of the awful path I'd gone onto.

Just an option to consider, or not, depending on what you feel comfortable with.

go- thank you for being honest as you always have--- from another point of view which makes this site complete, your perspective is invaluable. i do appreciate your posts, ,,,,
fred- i agree- but i hope there is no other phone....

not so sure= listen.. follow the steps, to the tee. promise, sounds worse now, but they will help you in the end either way

Hows the plan coming together???

Thanks for posting GloveOil. Until posting here yesterday, i felt I was going crazy. Just talking about it to some internet strangers has made me feel a lot better. I have a plan. I will be ok.

I got VAR. I didn't have access to car last night, but I will install it tonight. Key logger set up on home PC. I am looking into GPS. My wife takes care of the finances so it will take some time to hide some funds. Just to be clear though, I have access to our finances, but she tends to watch them like a hawk.

I also talked to her. I just said sorry for being jealous. I let her know that I love her and support her. Just kinda left it at that. I wasn't sure what her response was going to be. She was really happy and said that I was stressing her out. She joked about it a little and then we just dropped it.

Other than that, I'm just busy trying to meet her emotional needs. I've been reading the 5 love languages. So far so good. I will keep at it and report back.

Good deal your ahead of the curve. Now a few other ideas for your sitch. Can you sell something she wont know about or pawn it? Borrow money from someone trusted that you can confide in? Money should not be made an issue here as piece of mind is worth much more than money. And its often said here that its cheaper than a D.
One more snoop suggestion. Semen detection kits are pretty cheap. It means you have to abstain from sex with her, but it is a sure fire way to get a better piece of mind. I used 20 tests and found them to be very accurate. I tested of course after we were together then I abstained for a week or more.
Lastly I am assuming you have been suspicious for a few months. You have already somewhat alarmed her. This may have altered a course she was traveling and snapped her back into reality or drove a EA/PA underground. The problem being is we dont know what it is that caused the "state of withdrawal" In your M. Your main job now is to be "James Bond". Super cool, suave and debonair. Looks good, smell good, taste good and be slick. Cool and calculated. From your emotional state of description about your self I also think you need to see your MD about anti-anxiety. It will help you be that James Bond.
Do not take my advice to make you be super anxious. I prefer innocent until proven guilty. I hope for your family's sake its just a "Marital State of Withdrawal" from the lack of EN's being met by both spouses. So lets assume that till the tools prove otherwise.

Something else I wanted to add but my original post was getting a bit long. This happened last weekend before I started posting. Normally I wouldn't have thought twice about it, but the last few months I have been analyzing everything out of her mouth.

We were watching Beverly Hills Cop with her sister. We started joking about how bad the name Axel is. So she jokingly said that we should name our next child Axel. She said that we could call him Axel, OM's last name our last name. Obviously it was said in jest, but why would she say his name? I think it was more of a Freudian slip than anything else...

This really, really pissed me off. I mean WTF?

I'm trying not to LB and I know that she has denied every allegation so I ignored it. I don't know if she even realized what she said when she said it.

Any recommendations on how to deal with this type of thing? For now, I am mentally noting everything, but I'm not commenting. Should I call her out?

Thanks everyone for your help!

I had a small notebook and i wrote everything thats was bugging me or i had questions about in the book. then after my final d day i pulled everthing from the book that i still needed answers on and gave it to him. some oth the things didnt matter anymore, there were much bigger fish to fry-

it may help keep you in check while you are working on your info finding.

If you call her out, she may begin to catch on to what you are up to. i would hold off.

Bond, James Bond. Nope let it lie. No alarms whatsoever. Dont tip your cards as we are stacking the deck. Its counter productive. I agree maybe write them down and get there later.
Our goal is simple at this stage. We must first know what or whom we are fighting to stack the deck accordingly.
Say it with me...Bond, James Bond. Mentally place yourself in his character. Store your intel till it needs to be used.
That does seem to be a weird comment. It leads to believe he may not be the target or problem here. Shes known him 10 years right? Usually a A would surface between 2 "friends" well before that length of time. But not always. Her being bold enough to say this is a curve ball sorta. If she was trying to deflect attention she certainly wouldn't bring him up. Especially in a sarcastic comment as this was. My FWW avoids any mention of OM and is meticulous to not throw me a trigger.
But either/or the snooping will reveal. Can you do the semen kits?

Hmmm... Interesting take Hils. I will keep my eyes/ears open just in case OM is not who I think it is.

I'll bite my lip and continue on in Plan A. Thanks for all of your input!

You have been getting some really good advice.

Do you know anything about OM? Do you know his parent's contact info? Is he married? If so, do you have his wife's contact info? Does he have FB? Copy his friend's list into a word document. Do you have the contact info you would need for their workplace.

Does she go out for lunch? Could you have someone sit outside their workplace and watch her, with a camera of course?

As far as the money, you could just get cash back when you shop. If she finds out, you could say, "I was trying to surprise you." Yea, surprise you by checking up on you.

My WH is having an A with a woman he works with. Their affair took place mostly during work hours. I didn't know it, but he was leaving early and hanging out with her. Do you have access to her pay stubs?

Do you travel for your job? If you do, you should look at correcting this, if not, you could tell her that you don't want to spend any nights apart. Even if she isn't in an affair now, she could be soon. Spending nights apart from each other is one of the things that increases your chances of your psouse having an affair.

NSSISC,

You're doing the right thing and the gut is often not wrong. This trip she's going on is a huge red flag.

Find out if she's really going where she says she's going.

My father would tell my mom he had medical conferences to go to and it turned out he was taking vacations with OW.

She trusted and didn't doubt until stumbling upon a receipt one day.

Your VAR will likely reveal a lot. You can do some snooping on your own as well, which might save you some bucks.

Another option is to ask a friend to check on some things for you. Pick someone she doesn't know. I had a squadronmate who was willing to go to a club where my WW was going and tell me what she was up to.

Some people might enjoy the spy aspects of this.

Or, if you have the funds, hire a PI.

Well crud. I missed a good opportunity today. She went to lunch but said it was with her girl friend. VAR is getting set up tonight.

does she travel thru tolls for work? EZPass was my jackpot!

I had every time he went to OW1 and time and duration. it was horrible, but couldnt deny it.

Rolling out the classic :

NeverGuessed's Betrayed Husband Survival Kit

1- KEEP ALL THESE ARRANGEMENTS SECRET FROM YOUR WAYWARD(?) WIFE!
2 � Put a keylogger on any computer you can access that she might use.
3 � Put �Flexispy� on any cellphone that she might use.
4 � Put a GPS on her car, reporting to your computer.
5 � Put a VAR in her car, and in any room she might use to take �personal� calls
6 � Get a mini-audio-recorder, and have it in your possession and �on� whenever in her presence.
7 � Put together an e-address list of anyone who might have influence on her � parents, siblings (sisters, especially), coworkers, college friends, clergy, hairdresser, anyone.
8 � Put together a similar list for the POSOM.
WHEN YOU HAVE SUFFICIENT EVIDENCE,
9 � Put together the electronic evidence for each AP.
10 - Write a cover note for your wife�s contacts, to the tune of: �I must unhappily inform you that my wife, XXXXXX, is carrying on an illicit affair with YYYYYY. I am hoping to recover our marriage, and ask if you have any influence over her, to urge her to abandon her cheating lifestyle and return to me and our family. Her cell number is 111-222-3333�
11 � Write a similar note to POSOM�s contacts.
12 � Send out both packages, to all contacts at one time.
13 � Brace yourself.

Right now you should be operating on steps 1 - 8. The results of those preliminary efforts will determine if 9 - 13 are necessary.

This is the value of the board. Most of us has been in your shoes and the ones that remain hear this eerily similar information from BS's just about every day. We process it through Logic where you are trying to do it with Emotions.
Glad Neverguessed showed and was hoping for a few of the other old timers to show. They will soon as the true deal is discovered. I can assure you if they haven't commented they are reading this thread.
My "spin" was so that you look at all the possibilities out there. New man at work? Currently suspected OM marital problems? Sudden and unannounced old boyfriend connection on Face book. We see A's morph from every thing down to YOUR pastor. Sad but true.
Withdrawel is always a red flag. Always. Now she seems to be back in the state of "conflict" and thats better but not the goal here.
Read http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8111_leave.html and give us your thoughts on if any of this identifies your Wife or your M.

From the link:
Simply stated, women leave men when they are neglected. Neglect accounts for almost all of the reasons women leave and divorce men.

This really hit home. I am guilty of neglect. Not physical neglect. I don't travel for work. I rarely go out without her. I help with household duties. In fact, I cook and do dishes during the week. I take out the trash and clean around the house. I am very involved with my son. I change diapers, bathe him and put him down for bed. I get up in the night if he cries and get up early on the weekend when he doesn't want to sleep in.

But, she has commented that she felt as if I was "just going through the motions". While I was physically available to her, I was emotionally closed off. While she was pulling away from me it was harder to converse with her. It seemed like we didn't have anything to talk about. Just how crazy her work is and our son. This is something that I have been working on for the last few weeks. She has said that she sees a different me. I just hope that it is not to little to late.

"just going through the motions" Same exact words my FWW had for me and was saying to her OM in there EA. She is not having her need for Intimate Conversation met. You must learn to do this exceedingly well by using friends of conversation and getting rid of the enemies of conversation.
She has said that she sees a different me. I just hope that it is not to little to late. Nope I dont think so not by a long shot Unless you dont want to Recover IF you discover an A.
Are you married to my Wife? Our sitch is 2 peas in there little pod. Have you identified your top EN's yet by doing the worksheet here on this site? And if SF (Sexual Fulfillment) is one of your tops I bet shes doing a bad job of meeting it too right? Has been for a while.
I do suspect with this GTT motions declaration to you that she is at minimal "talking" with a "friend". This would explain the mental drawback you have felt. Its has robbed her emotions from you.

Haha. Serious question. Are you me?

Yup. SF is a top need for me and she has done a poor job at meeting it. I already mentioned here that it was always initiated by me. I have been turned down many times. I realized how much resentment I've build up over this issue. She always has excuses. I think that my confidence has been effected due to the rejection.

At this point I know that I can only control my actions. I am doing my best to ensure that I meet her needs in hopes that she will want to meet mine.

IF there is something else going on, I will deal with it swiftly. If not, then I will just try to be the best husband I can be.

You have the perfect makings to get it done either way. I do hope U caught it in time as then its really just both of you making decisions to do the right things to be happy. As I said in my very first post "you have been given a wake up call"
Keep on meeting that IC need of hers and throw in as much NON SEXUAL AFFECTION as she will let you. You have robbed her Love Bank blindly not knowing. Fill it up and that takes Time. Spend as much Time together as possible . 20 hours per week with undivided attention. Find a way...no excuses. Make it fun and good conversation.
I hope the snoop tools find NOTHING. Her job email/work phone is how my FWW last EA started. I wouldnt have known had I not know the Babble talk. Then stupidly she made 1 call from our private cell on a Saturday. You see her "NEED" needs to be met so badly that if its a OM at work/anywhere she will contact him over the weekend somehow. This should be her vulnerabilities.
If after a few weeks you see improvement in her by doing YOUR job and the tools you launch reveal nothing then the plan is pretty straight forward. If it does reveal anything then 9-13 has to be done very specifically and we all will help you formulate.
Have a great weekend southcal. Keep Bond in his suit k

Any update?

Yep checking in on you Bro.

We had a pretty good weekend. I previously posted that I had talked to my wife and told her that I trust and support her. I want her to drop her guard while I continue to monitor her.

I guess she totally bought it because she mentioned OM a few times Thursday and Friday. Just in passing while talking about work. Prior to that she hasn't talked about him much. I tried to ignore it, but it put me in a crappy mood. Anyway, when I get in a bad mood I tend to pull away. On Friday night I finished the 5 love languages and I believe that her primary language is intimate conversation. So I realize I will need to control my mood to meet her needs.

Anyway, we ended up having a really nice Saturday and Sunday. We had a lot of "us time" and had a lot of good talks. It was nice.

I am encouraging my wife to read the book. My primary love language is physical touch. My wife is not a touchy person and has done a pretty good job of convincing me that I just need to deal with it. I now realize that she is the one that needs to change, not me. She has done a very poor job of meeting my emotional need. I hope that she reads it and realizes that it is on her to meet my needs, not on me to change my needs. As silly as it sounds to even type that last sentence, that has been our marriage. She isn't a physical person, so I have to deal with it. Crazy.

As far as my plans going forward. I will continue to monitor VAR and computer as well as phone and email. I am hopeful that nothing will turn up. I will continue to "Plan A", although hopefully this will just become our reality. A fun, loving and happy marriage.

Did anything happen with my wife and OM? At this point, I believe I will never know. If I find hard evidence that something did happen, I will confront, but until I have that evidence I have to live my life as if nothing happened. As Hils mentioned, I got a "wake up call".

Just wanted to thank everyone that took the time to read this thread and especially thank everyone that took the time to respond.

Hils, you have been a huge help. I really appreciate all of your incite. Again, thanks to everyone else that took the time to respond. This is really a great community.

For now I will let this thread die. I will probably check back from time to time and I will for sure update if I find evidence of infidelity.

Thanks!!

Was she always like that?

Let me put it another way - why do you think you fell in love with your W? What ENs was she meeting at that time?

Cali, I encourage you to remain and talk. There are many things you need help in your M and that's also what this place is about.
You are certainly a quick study and thats good for HER. Now you must be able to effectively communicate what makes YOU happy to her. To do that she has to be open minded and willing to work. If Affection is your number one need then she has to make the effort to fill it, but first she must understand WHY she needs too.
I think you need to set some goals. One is say 30 days. Meet her needs for that time without much expectation. Then once you have made some deposits have a discussion about your needs.
Get His Needs Her Needs. 5LL is good but DrH's is so much better.
Im glad I could help. I need help too Maybe start a new thread in 101 and link it here for now.
Keep the snoop on in the mean time. Transparency, openness and radical honesty are key components to a Affair proof M.

When we first started dating, we were more physical. After dating for a year, I had to move to another state (I was in the military) and our relationship was long distance for 4 long years. We obviously saw each other when we could, but never enough. It was very easy to by physical when we didn't see each other much.

Once I got out, we moved in together and started our life. Since then that need for me has been mostly unmet. Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming my wife for all of our problems. I share just as much blame. I wasn't doing a good job at meeting some of her primary needs. I also wasn't dealing with my feelings of rejection from her. Instead of truly talking about how important it was, I just tried to bury it.

I know I still have a long ways to go, but I feel like our foundation of love is still there and with some effort on both of our parts, we can make this a loving and happy marriage.

I like the idea of the 30 day goal. I will do everything I can do to meet her needs for the next 30 days without expecting anything in return. I have lived this was for a few years, I can go 30 more days. Once I have deposited enough into her love bank, I will address my needs with her. Thanks Hils!

I thought about HNHN, but at this point, I am trying to not mention anything about affairs. Since part of the title is how to affair proof your marriage, I am going to hold off on getting it. IF I find evidence otherwise, I will for sure pick it up.

Understanding it is the key. Most of us drive our M from intuition and we marry thinking all that brings us together will continue....then it doesn't. Just as in the Military everything in life needs a plan.
Neglecting each others needs is what drives most people to have A's. Im glad you recognize it for what it is. Pure and simple Neglect of Care.
Conflict is also huge. Policy of Joint agreements work out for everyone's benefits.
Then there are LOVE BUSTERS. We all are guilty. But with minimization of LBs and making sure ENs are met we can succeed.
You sound highly receptive, a key for you is getting your W on the same plan. I cant stress how important it is for you both to be on the same pages. Pick a program and work it willingly together. M can be happy I believe. I am most of the time. But unfortunately my FWW has driven some huge holes in my heart. Were in Recovery not just changing the rules.
For most of us when WE are neglected we put up walls. "drift Apart" "go through the motions" are all signs of M unhappiness and MUCH of the time symptoms of an Affair in a otherwise middle of the road Marriage.
I have looked far and wide at everything out there. 5LL, Love and Respect you name it. Order Harleys literature and never let the dust settle on it and you will be the Envy M. Let it get dusty (like I did) and you may find that wake up call is the wake up to a nightmare.
If there is no A here then your job by default is easier. I envy that too. But there are for sure some personal boundaries issues and extraordinary precautions with your Wife. Get that set up to Affair proof your M. She shouldnt have any "friends" in the workplace of the Op-Sex. She must not talk about personal things with anyone of the Op-sex. Look around you and no matter how unattractive a man can be to her now. If she lets him meet any of her ENs (intimate conversation) he will become irresistible to her. Then once one boundary is crossed its a sure trip to another and then another UNTIL..........

SRY was writing when u updated U the man I like your style.

****This was much longer that I planned. Here is the super abridged version for those that don't want to read. Wife still acting a little shady. I want to ask her to take a poly so that I can know the truth. Below is the full version.****

I haven't posted in a while and wanted to give an update and ask for some advice.

Here is a quick recap for those that don't remember my thread: About six months ago I noticed my wife pulling away from me. She started spending more and more time at work and we just weren't connecting. There were many small red flags and eventually I grew suspicious that she was cheating on me with someone she works with. I brought it up and she tearfully denied. I couldn't shake the feeling that she was deceiving me. I discovered MB and began posting and got some great advice. I have been snooping while executing plan A. I (finally) got HNHN and read it. I asked my wife to read it but she has made zero effort in reading it.

Previously I had mentioned that my wife had a two night work trip planned. It was relocated from out of town to a very nice resort hotel only about 10 miles from my house. OM was also attending said event.

So last weekend was the event. Initially my wife was very hesitant in letting me stay. She said the event planner wanted to have it at a hotel so that the executives would be distraction free. (No family, kids, etc). I tell her I would still like to see her.

The first day of the event I can only make it to see her during a short break she had before the planned dinner. I take my son and we have about 10 minutes before she has to leave. OM calls my wife on cell and they laugh about something that happened that day. I have become obsessed with her body language and observe as she is talking to him. She seems full of joy as she is talking to him.

I'm sure I will get some 2x4's here but I did not stay the night that first night. She called me after dinner 10pmish to say goodnight. Later I check her phone and earlier call from OM was erased.

Next day I get there before her break is scheduled to start and snoop her room over. I didn't find anything. She finally gets back and is visibly upset. She says the last meeting was very intense and she cried. She felt distant to me. So she is in the bathroom when OM knocks on the door. He seemed a little surprised when I answered but not overly. He asks if my wife was there. I tell him she is. He asks if he can talk to her. I say no, she is getting ready. He says, OK, just let her know I stopped by to make sure she is ok. I want to say, f@ck off and mind your own business, but just say sure.

He leaves. A few minutes later my wife comes out of bathroom and just goes about her business as if someone didn't just knock on door. About 10 minutes later she finally asks if someone stopped by. I let her know. She just says ok and moves on.

So after her dinner she comes back to room. (30 minutes after scheduled end time). I let her know that I am really upset that OM came by room. He has no business checking in on her at her hotel room. She blows it off saying no big deal. I tell her she is too close to this man and it is affecting our relationship. She uses same argument that it is nothing. They only talk about work. I let her know that many affairs have started between people only talking about work.

As she is defending her self I watch her pupils dilate even though the light has not changed in room. Later I read that this is a sign of someone lying.

So after event is over she tells me she doesn't really want to talk about it. That she needs to unwind. She then proceeds to talk about it all night with my family. She just didn't want to talk to me about it.

That leads me to today. I believe from the bottom of my heart that she is lying to me. I do not have a shred of physical evidence. Only my gut. I can't sleep. I've lost a ton of weight. I want this to end. Do I want this marriage to work?? I think so. I need the truth in order to begin.

I want to ask my wife to take a polygraph. Here is my plan. (If you have made it this far, this is where I need your help). I want to sit her down and let her know that I need her to take the poly. I will ask her in the evening after our son is down for the night. I will let her know that if she continues to deny an affair and she fails the poly then I will divorce her. I will let her know that she has until the following morning when my alarm goes if she has a change of heart and wants to change her story. Once that time passes any change of story or failure will result in divorce. I want to make sure she can think about it all night.

I will let her know I will call every poly tester in my city and get the soonest available appointment.

Um... Not sure if there is anything else I should add? Does this sound like much of a plan? Am I crazy? Please let me know what you think.

a wise poster gave me these words, it was like a brick in the face at the time, to him not me- I said it. scheduled the poly and told him a few days before, he came clean with all of the gory details.

"Do you want to stay in this marriage or not? If you want a divorce then you need to go file for one. If you don't want a divorce, then I want to get all of our cards on the table now, get everything out so that there are no more trickle truths, no more lies, no more halfways because there is no way that I'm ever going to go through this again. If I get any hint of contact again with OW, then I'm out of here. So what do you want to do?

dont threaten the poly just schedule it. let her know the date it scheduled. tell her in order to stay married to you this is what you need to move forward.

you did say once that time passes any change of the story or failure will result in divorce---- are you saying that when she finally tells you the full story you will divorce her, why would she tell you then. when the truth does come out bite your tounge take it and go back for more, if you react she will pull away.

you need to make the decision if this is true and there is an affair --are you going to give it you best to make this marrige work, it sounds that way but you need to be clear.

i have to look back, what are your snooping tactics and how that going?>

ps- you are not crazy.

I'll schedule it and then tell her.

As for snooping: keylogger and frequent checks on cell and some VAR. I haven't turned up any physical evidence. We rarely use home PC. Her cell is not locked, but nothing has turned up. I did notice she erased a call from OM that I knew she took. Her phone is also hooked up to work and personal email. I frequently review them but if she is erasing it wouldn't matter.

As far as the VAR goes, initially I was diligent about using it, but as the weeks passed without anything, I regret to say I haven't used it recently.

Sorry if I'm not clear. I guess I just want her to admit the affair. As I picture things playing out, i find comfort in the thought that she will come clean instead of denying to the end. For some reason that makes a difference for me. If she is willing to come clean, I will promise her that I will give recovery 100% effort. I will follow the MB plan of NC and exposure.

If she denies the affair and fails the poly, I feel she isn't interested in recovery.

Any one have any experience with polygraph tests? Ideas for questions? Do I share the questions with her in advance? I've emailed two places to see how much and when they are available. Hopefully soon so I can get this done with. Looks like they run about $400 in my area. Money well spent...

She will probably already KNOW by now she is being watched so the var is your best bet. One way to know is if she is spending more time IN HER CAR and she is going on "errands" more frequently, which will enable her to talk more.

So Cal,

My ww hide the om number under the name of our refinancing company. She always said I could go through her phone as well but I never would've thought of that. She probably is hiding it under a name you never would think twice about.

Also could be very unlikely she admits it. That would help with just compensation for you if she did.

I would tell her of the poly a few days before and tell her if she doesn't take it or doesn't come clean now your done. If she takes it and the answers don't match up your done. Don't be a doormat.

The poly guys know what kind of questions to ask-just tell them what you are trying to find out.

I wanted nothing more than to save my marriage, but some ww just don't see a second chance as an Awakening Moment!!

my h hid all of the numbers under business realted things. look on operation investigate, i listed my questions there. the price is about right. you questions have to be broad they will explain it all to you.

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2520434#Post2520434

look for another phone in her car.

The VAR in the car will get you the evidence you need at this point. That, in addition to a GPS tracker.

The car is your key.

Trust your gut, my friend. Where there is smoke there is fire and there is a ton of smoke in your situation.

Is OM married?

Kids in your sitch?

Keep us updated. This whole thing reaks of an affair.

I wish some of the vets would comment on this, but you need to be very careful here.

This sounds very much like an ultimatum, and ultimatums are controlling and one of the biggest love busters possible that rarely work.

Are you really prepared to follow through with the consequences? Will you go immediately to your lawyer and do the fast track to divorce if she refuses, if the poly shows she is not being truthful? The second you waiver on your consequences is the second she knows you will not follow through and she can continue playing her game.

Someone will post on the difference between demands and boundaries. It is something to learn and takes a while to get the concept.

I'm not saying you shouldn't demand the polygraph, I'm just saying to think through making it an ultimatum. See if this sounds better:

"I am requesting that you take a polygraph I have scheduled so that I can know without a doubt your relationship with OM. I will not live in a marriage where there are secrets and will not live in a marriage with another person involved."

See the difference? Now you are asserting your boundary, and the boundary is that you will not live with secrecy or another man. How you enforce that boundary is up to you. It may be with divorce, it may be with the polygraph results, it may be with extraordinary precautions in place.

Ultimatums are about trying to control the other person's behavior, boundaries are about controlling your own behavior and actions.

What this does ....



And, your WW needs the truth to come out to save her from herself.


Bad plan.
Don't do it.

Instead, invest in a PI.
Do it right away.

The GOOD NEWS is that you know who the OM is.
Is he married?
Does he have kids?

Once the PI is working .... Contact OM's wife and tell her something like this:

"I have been suspicious for awhile that there is a budding romance forming between your H and my W. On (date) in (city) at (event), your H came to my W's room and behaved in a very suspicious and inappropriate way. I would not be surprised if they are actually having a full blow affair. I think you should watch things from your side."

But, don't tell her about the PI until the PI has found evidence.

One more thing, not so pleasant.
Buy a semen detection kit.
Keep it on hand.
You will recognize when it's time to use it.

She won't be interested in recovery for awhile.
Hang in there.

Please, be pro active when it comes to really learning what your rights are as a father in your state.

Meanwhile ..... PLAN A LIKE A ROCK STAR

(if you have not already read the carrot/stick thread, it's linked in my sig line)

FROM THE ART OF WAR THREAD ********


Force is the control of the balance of power, in accordance with advantages.

In Plan A ... the BS restores their power to affect change. Plan A gives the BS an advantage with their intimate knowledge of their spouse's ENs.

Warfare is the Way of deception.

Deception meaning .... showing more strength than you might possess at that given time ! Hiding your weaknesses. Plan A ... not begging, crying, pleading ... standing tall and presenting a self ready to battle & fight for the marriage.

Therefore, if able, appear unable,

Plan A ... let your WS provide you with things that save your energy for future need.

if active, appear not active,

When snooping about like a squirrel searching for seeds of the affair, appear calm & serene ... Plan A snooping is done quietly & without announcing >>> "Ah-Ha ... Look what I found !". Be stealth.

if near, appear far,

Plan A ... keep your WS guessing where you are.

if far, appear near.

What seems just out of reach is sometimes more attractive. What seems a sure thing, is taken for granted.

If they have advantage, entice them;

Offer the WS goodies ... as in meet their ENs.

if they are confused, take them,

Plan A is confusing to the WS. They would prefer the BS appear ugly & unattractive in order to justify their cheating. It is confusing for the WS to see an attractive BS.

if they are substantial, prepare for them,

Plan A ... get all your ducks lined up. Legal preparations. Financial preparations. Spiritual preparations. Etc.

if they are strong, avoid them,

Plan A is not plan doormat. They can wipe their feet elsewhere, but not on your back. Accepting abuse is not an attractive trait.

if they are angry, disturb them,

LOL .... The WS speaks with foggy tongue, disturb them with fog responses.

if they are humble, make them haughty,

If the WS is over-confident, they become sloppy & make errors.

if they are relaxed, toil them,

Keeping an affair going is exhausting to the WS. It's like a juggling act. Throw the WS another ball to keep in the air. The affair will fall when the juggler becomes exhausted by the added effort.

if they are united, separate them.

Do not become the fool that encourages both the WS and the OP to join forces. If you act insane during Plan A, they have a common enemy to fight ~~~> YOU !

Attack where they are not prepared, go out to where they do not expect.

Do the UNexpected in Plan A. Keep the WS guessing & wondering.

This specialized warfare leads to victory, and may not be transmitted beforehand.

Do not give away your plans.... do not show the WS your books. Do not invite the WS to this site. Stealth.

Before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will win, because many calculations were made

Plan ... you must have a Plan or you will suffer & be defeated.

before doing battle, in the temple one calculates and will not win, because few calculations were made

Don't waste time flailing about .... get organized & recruit helpers.

many calculations, victory, few calculations, no victory, then how much less so when no calculations

Do not proceed by your feelings alone. Develop your plan.

By means of these, I can observe them, beholding victory or defeat!

The BS who refuse to develop & follow a plan, are most likely to fail.

Quick update. I wanted to talk to her last night, but I decided to get more feedback from everyone here. Also I wanted to have a poly scheduled before asking her to take test. I might back off based on the advice I've gotten so far.

Since her event last weekend she has been distant. Zero affection and little conversation. Her excuse has been that she is tired. She also said that she hasn't slept well because she has been thinking about work.

One of the reasons I want to push for poly is I need an answer fast. My wife really wants to get pregnant. (We already have 2 year old son). Obviously I want to make sure our marriage is on solid ground before going down that path.

A little more history about my wife. Her parents split when she was young. WW's mom made vague allegations that WW's dad cheated with secretary. It was never exposed to children and it was kept in dark. WW's personality is very much like her dads. When we started dating she said if I ever cheated she would leave me. She said it was an absolute deal breaker.

I think that IF she is cheating, it would be very hard to get her to admit to it. She is stubborn and I'm sure feels a great deal of shame.

Thanks everyone for your help. I don't know what I would do without the help.

OM might be backing off.


She is cheating.
No pregnancy in the near future.
Skip the poly at this time and hire a PI.


None of this matters.


Remorse is more important.

Is OM married?
Please respond.

Yes. He is married. He actually lives very close to us. Less than 5 miles.

I have not talked to her about it because I have no evidence other than intuition.

Yes you do have first hand experience!

Tell her how her husband went to your wife's hotel room not expecting to find you there.

Tell her that you find her H and your W are inappropriately close/intimate with each other and you suspect a "budding romance".

You don't need concrete proof for that.

The sooner you contact OMW, the better.

If this is "only" an EA at this time, confronting the OMW may prevent a PA from developing.

Do it.

I agree 100%

Cal,

It is possible that the OMW may already suspect that something's up but is being gaslighted by her H (OM).

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse in which false information is presented to the victim with the intent of making them doubt their own memory and perception. From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

I was gaslighted big time. It ended up being a PA and was very hard to kill.

That is something to consider.

I know OMW through the company Christmas party. That is a call I am not looking forward to. Do I ask her to keep quiet?

Absolutely NOT.

My wife made sure to point out that OMW was staying at the hotel where the event was. I guess to make me worry less? However the second night OM went for late night walk after dinner instead of going back to his room with his wife.

I will ask OMW if she ever stayed at the hotel. (Specifically the first night of the event when I was not there).

You might find this hard to believe .... waywards LIE !!!

Get'er'done, SoCal.
It's only 4:50 here on the west coast.

If this is true (and I highly doubt it) his wife will probably be less than happy to find out that her WH is knocking on another woman's hotel door while she's in the same building.

Quick update. I found OMW's email from facebook. Here is what is sent her:

Hey OMW,

This is NotSoSureInSoCal (WW's husband). I just wanted to ask you a few questions about OM and WW. First I want to let you know that I don't have any evidence of anything inappropriate. However, I worry that their relationship is getting closer than it should for work colleagues.

Have you ever worried about my wife and your husband? Have you noticed anything different over the last few days or weeks? Did you know that he stopped by WW's hotel room last weekend? I happened to be in the room and he came by to check on her after one of the sessions. They both acted a little weird about it. Last question, did you stay at the hotel with OM any of the days?

Again, I have no evidence of anything inappropriate so probably nothing to worry about. But I would feel much better with a second set of eyes on the situation.

Please let me know if you have any questions or want to talk. Also, if you don't mind can I have your cell phone just in case anything else comes up? My cell is ***************.

Thanks,

NotSoSureInSoCal


What do you guys think?

Good job Cal,

You did the right thing. I wish the BH had done this in my sitch when he started to suspect things. It is not vindictive or spiteful but the right thing to do to protect your family and hers.

Be ready for your W to be furious. Don't engage.

Have you hired that PI yet?

No PI. I really want to hear what OMW has to say.

I did see a sent email on WW's phone. It was to OM Monday morning asking if he wanted to go to lunch with her. She did say that she went to lunch, but didn't say who with. I guess that answers that.

I'm sorry to hear about that SoCal. That doesnt help the gut any when you start finding her in situations where she doesnt come clean. Keep us posted on OMW.

I think you made a serious error when you included the above comment.

You WANT OMW to be concerned. She should be concerned. Her H is behaving very badly.

I detest the word "worry" when used in this context.
Worry is what people do when they are adrift without a plan of action.
Executing a plan is the muscle one exercises to do away with worry.

You wrote your email to OMW and filled it with your wishful thinking.
Wishful thinking does not effectively rid one's mind of worry.
And, wishful thinking will never get to the bottom of what is troubling your marriage.

You must be stronger and tougher than this.

PUT a GPS on her car.
Put a VAR in her car.
Better than that, hire a PI.

You DO !
Another man coming to your wife's hotel room thinking he would find her alone .... is HIGHLY inappropriate .... unless he is a fireman smelling smoke!

I think OMW is going to confront him about your email, and he's going to make you look like an insecure, jealous nut. Her inclination will be to believe her husband, not some stranger who emailed her out of the blue.

Can you email OMW again to the affect of "I have more information regarding my last email to you. It is critical that you contact me immediately concerning our spouses. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx."

Don't be wishy-washy about this. First you flag her that something is inappropriate about your spouses' behavior, then you derail yourself by reassuring her that you don't think it's serious.

It IS serious.

Ok. Point taken. I emailed her again asking if we could talk and letting her know that I do have concerns that I downplayed in my previous email.

This is f'ing hard. I am a mess. I didn't sleep at all last night. I started to cry on my way to work. I never cry.

It is F'ing hard.

Hang in there, try to sleep, make sure you eat, and exercise.

Having a plan and taking action helps.

Sitting on the sideline wringing your hands only makes you more miserable. You are taking action, the plan just needs some fine tuning.

Pepperband's advice is AMAZING!

Not to split hairs, here, Not, but you've got to ramp up your dialogue if you're going to make any headway with this.

You don't have concerns. You have reason to believe that your spouses are behaving inappropriately and may well be involved in an adulterous relationship.

You also told her that there is 'probably nothing to worry about'. Why are you here telling us otherwise? Why is your gut screaming at you? Why are you so upset if there's nothing to worry about? Why would you tell OMW that there's probably nothing to worry about when her husband is knocking on another woman's hotel door?

I get the impression that you don't want to upset this woman, and I applaud your desire not to hurt her, but you are misguided. Her husband is the one who's hurting her. You are only making her aware of the danger to her marriage.

Remember these
What the...??? I've never been in a business meeting that made me cry.

He could have called her cell phone. Why knock on a woman's hotel room door??

So, what was her point in telling you this? Does it matter, when this happens? ---->

Ugh, I know it's hard, Not. Hang in there, buddy!

Agree - what business meeting makes a woman cry? Is she a social worker dealing with abused children?

What is your game plan for exposing this in the workplace? Have you made a list of people to expose?

AWESOME job hunting down OMW and getting her involved. This will need to go wider in the workforce to really put a knife through it.

Start making your list. If you speak to OMW today or tonight I would set up another round of exposure to their FACEBOOK friends and their work HR and colleagues by Friday. Make your list first. Go to his and her facebook pages ASAP and start copying their friend list to a word document.

Tough~

It is a very small company. As far as work goes, I would want to expose to owners, and the external HR person they use. (My wife does a lot of basic HR functions. They recently brought on an HR consultant. My SIL is friends with her so I will have no problem getting her contact info).

Is the OMW's FB public?

Does she have her phone number listed in the info tab?

Get the list ready to target them by Thursday or Friday at the latest.

Expect WW to be beyond livid. She will be spewing hate, rage, anger, venom, may leave the house, may file for divorce (threat of it anyway), may tell you it is over ....

She will call you every name in the book, she will be so mad her head may spin a couple times.

All of these are very normal responses and usually never lead to anything except her acting like a 2 year old throwing a tantrum.

Just look the best you can and smell your best --- smile, smile, and smile.

When she yells, screams, and wants to kill you simply smile back and ask her if she wants to grill chicken or steak on Saturday and would she like cole slaw or potato salad. Keep smiling and leave the room if you need to and come here to vent.

Tough~

Five dollars says you hear this: "I was going to work on the marriage until you pulled this"

Don't worry if you hear it, almost all of us have heard it. Its extremely common.

No phone number. Just email address.

FORGOT TO TELL YOU --- DO NOT LET HER KNOW ABOUT EXPOSURE.

DO NOT LET ON TO ANYTHING IN THE WORKPLACE. TRY AND DUMP AS MUCH LOVE INTO HER LOVE BANK IN THE NEXT 48 HOURS.

Does she have a favorite store or restaurant? Does she have a great friend who is supporting you. Maybe you can get a gift card and your her friend and tell WW you want her to go and enjoy some time away to relax.

Actually you may even try to book her a facial or massage, or something you know will dump massive love into her system.

Be creative and try and let her do it right before your nuclear work exposure.

Tough~

After exposure she'll probably say this too...

"Now I have to call OM to apologize."

.....and let's not forget the meeting to get "closure", where, typically, the only closure is done by her legs around his waist!

or... "I can't trust you now after you pull this"

Hang in there socal. These people are right on how to handle this. Take the advice as a solid framework and use it to the tee. They will help you get what you need done. I was in your very shoes as far as crying and emotional mess. I dont cry either and I have been through a whirl wind. Be very stong in what you do.

So I heard back from OMW.

She did not stay with her husband at the hotel on Thursday. (I did not stay with wife on Thursday). WW made it a point to say that OMW was with OM on Thursday night.

I'm crushed.

I'm so sorry to hear that, Not. But look at it like this: you now have concrete proof that your WW is lying to you.

What else did OMW say?

Yeah, what else did she say?

Did she share your suspicions? or was she blindsided?

It was a short email. She said that she stayed with OM at hotel Friday and Saturday and then asked that I call her this afternoon. We will compare notes later today.

I am getting the feeling that OMW may already have suspected that something's up. That is a great sign that she wants to talk.

She may be your biggest ally right now.

Deep breaths.

Hang in there SoCal. Please come here and vent and release your troubles. Let us know how the talk goes asap

THIS IS VITALLY IMPORTANT TO THE ULTIMATE SUCCESS OF YOUR EVENTUAL EXPOSURE!

YOU AND OMW CANNOT LET YOUR SPOUSES KNOW YOU'VE BEEN IN CONTACT AND ARE COOPERATING!

The two AP's will immediately start covering their (individual and collective) tracks, and coordinating their stories. They'll also start spreading rumors among their friends/relatives/coworkers about their overly suspicious spouses believing they are conducting an affair!

Another update. I just spoke with OMW. Her email said that she was with him Friday and Saturday. She said that she meant Thursday and Friday. That means that OMW was with OM on night in question.

She said that everything is great between them. She did not seem concerned in the least.

So I am back to square one now.

What do I do now?

It sounds like she's been talking to her H. He's managed to convince her that you're a whack job. You'll need to keep snooping on your end. I would suggest you email her back and apologize for your 'suspicious nature'. If her H did manage to get to her first, she'll report this back to him and he'll hopefully keep his guard down with your WW so you can get the intel you need.

Snoop like the dickens on your end to confirm the affair. You can always go back to OMW when you have solid evidence.

I don't think you'll have your answer until you put a VAR in her car and/or hire a PI to catch them in the act.

I recommend you email OMW back, tell her that you've seen some weird behavior by your WW in regards to her H and that she may wish to keep an eye on things and leave it at that.

Add in the message that you sincerely hope you're wrong. This takes away the idea that you're just a jealous control freak.

But put the VAR in the car! They are cheap and are likely to get you the answer you need.

Good advice.

When I talked to her I did ask her to just keep her eyes open for any weird behavior. I told her that I will let her know if I uncover anything on my side and asked her to do the same.

You planted a seed in her head and the odds are high she'll talk to her H about it. He may very well be scared off by your concern and dump your WW.

THIS is the time to have a VAR ready. You likely will cause some turmoil and it will show itself if they talk on the phone.

Her behavior is very suspicious.

Get the VAR in the car!

She's been gaslighted.


People (women in particular) who have a diminished ability (for whatever reason) to trust their own judgment are less able to resist gaslighting.

Denial and disregard of evidence is common.

What makes me think this?

"Everything is great between them."

Been there, said that. I was wrong.

Hopefully I planted a seed of doubt in OMW mind. Where do I go from here? Just keep snooping and pretend everything is ok?

Hire a PI.
Put a GPS/VAR on her vehicle.

Plan A like a Rock Star.

Get her to lower her guard.

Wait for her to trip up.

What top 3 or 4 of your W's intimate ENs are you planning to meet beyond her expectations?

Get concert tickets?
Plan a wonderful kid-free weekend?
Take her dancing?
Make her laugh every day?
Compliment her in unexpected ways?
Cook for her?

Recreational companionship and conversation are her most important needs. Last night I took her and my son to farmers market and we grabbed a bite to eat. It was nice, but I am having a really hard time with meeting her need of conversation. When I am upset, I withdraw. She notices.

Maybe I can take her to a concert or show or movie. Somewhere where it would be inappropriate to talk.

OK.

Also, next time you get caught in a verbal battle in your own mind and tend to withdraw, just grab her hand and give it a squeeze.

Say something off topic like: "I love holding your hand."

And leave it at that. Shut up, but stay in physical contact.

Make sense?

I can do that. Thanks.

Oh yea, another question. I know on Monday my wife asked OM to go to lunch and I know that she went out to lunch again today. Should I even ask who she went with?

HIRE A PI

It's funny that Pep suggested this. Over 25 years ago my H (ex) and I were in a conflict with high tension. We were at a festival-type thing and it was very crowded and rowdy.

He was in front of me and turned around, reached for my hand, firmly took it, pulled me closer to him and led me through the crowd.

Still remember it to this day. He melted my heart (and anger) without a word with that gesture of strength, caring and confidence.

Pep is dead-on.

"And leave it at that. Shut up, but stay in physical contact."

Quickly to add, in the story I cited I was a) at fault and b) a complete snot (hey...I was in my 20's), and my H got the quickest, most genuine apology I'd ever given him. And, he never said a word *aloud*.

Don't be discouraged by OMW dismissal of the whole thing. I still think that OMW had previous suspicions in her own mind and is why she wanted you to call her. She was then gaslighted by OM.

You planted the seed. Let her process it.

Lay low with a stellar PLAN A while snooping your butt off. Waywards are very good at taking things underground once threatened... keep this in mind. It is a battle of wits and you have to be the smarter one.

Remember to breath - slowly and deeply.

Nope. Don't tip your hand to her. Not, you're going to have to go for an Academy Award for Best Performance, here, and behave as though you think all is right with your world. I know this is incredibly stressful, and I'm sure you'd like get honest answers to your questions. Ain't gonna happen, friend. Waywards lie. If their lips are moving, they're lying.

All your questions or accusations will do is drive her underground and make her more careful in her dealings with OM. Believe me. In my sitch, the OWH was actually threatening my H, and begging his WW to come clean. You'd think an irate husband who is threatening an OM (my H at the time) would cause the OM to dump his affair partner. All it did was drive them underground. I suspect the drama even fueled the illicit excitement of their affair.

Say nothing. Plan A your rear end off.

Not much to report from last night. We had a nice family dinner and just relaxed and played hide and seek with my son.

After my son went to sleep we watched a little TV and went to sleep. My wife wasn't all that interested in snuggling up while we watched TV.

Quick question. So a few weeks ago I read HNHN. She said that she would read it after her work event. She had some assigned reading that she wanted to finish. The truth is it really hurt my feelings that she was more focused on her work event than trying to learn how to meet my needs. Anyway, on to my question. Should I encourage her to read HNHN, or just drop it until I figure out what is going on?

Thanks again for all of the help.

Keep it on your nightstand, or out somewhere where she can see it. Don't push it on her.

NSSISC,

You need to step it up. Please tell us why you haven't put the voice recorder in the car. That will reveal a lot.

A PI can get pictures of her on one of her lunches with OM.

Take a day off of work and spy on her yourself if you know she's going "to lunch."

I bet lunch might involve a hotel somewhere.

Get going on the spying. You're sitting idle and hoping something reveals itself.

Get off your butt and put a VAR in the car. Many men here have caught their wives that way.

Get a GPS tracker on the car.

Hire a PI! Get a friend to take a picture of her with OM.

Do something!

This is what i was thinking too. If somethings going on you need to get your evidence and put a stop to this.

Anything new?

Did you ever find out if she was cheating on you???

Curious the poster never came back - always wonder what happened when folks do this.

One thing that struck me when reading through the thread is that he said he had no evidence, I am curious if he ever checked to see that she was getting extra pay for all of the extra housr that she said she was spending at work. of course, that wouldnt matter if she was on salary as opposed to an hourly employee.

Hey guys! I'm still here. I lurk but don't post much.

I've yet to find any evidence. I still believe in my heart that something happened, but I can't prove it. The wife and I have discussed it a few times but it obviously doesn't help to keep bringing it up. Unless something comes up I will keep my mouth shut.

Our relationship has improved but I know we have a long ways to go. We are working on His Needs Her Needs at the moment. I've read a bunch of different relationship books in the past few months and this is by far my favorite.

In addition I have been working on myself. I think that at the beginning of the year (when things were really bad with my wife) I was depressed. This whole thing was a huge wake up call. There are some things about me that I want to change.

Two of my favorite self improvement books are No More Mr. Nice Guy and Married Man's Sex Life. I am definitely a nice guy and have been working on changing that.

I continue to snoop, but not obsessively. If I ever find anything, I will for sure post it.

I guess I would say I am cautiously optimistic about the future of my marriage. Maybe she cheated, maybe she didn't. Either way I will be the best me I can be.

She is salary so it wouldn't have mattered. Good idea though!

Hey MB,

Remember me? Probably not. Just thought I would update. To get you up to speed; I strongly suspected my wife had an affair with a co-worker, but I was never able to find evidence. I had a lot of red flags and unexplainable behavior, but no hard evidence.

Anyway, I finally decided to end my suffering and asked my wife to take a polygraph. She initially said she would, then she changed her mind, and finally agreed.

The night she finally agreed to take the test, she admitted to kissing someone years ago prior to us getting married. I still went through with it and at the test, she admitted to a second incident of kissing someone years ago prior to getting married.

Once she admitted to those two issues, she passed the test with flying colors.

Anyway, I don't post here often, but I thought I would update this thread to encourage others to go through with the polygraph to get peace of mind.

My wife and I have a lot of room to improve our relationship, but I needed to clear up this issue before truly committing to moving forward.

Thanks for the support.

Thanks for the update and we actually have a poster who is questioning the polygraph, so hopefully others will see this.

What have you and your W done to affair proof your marriage? What EPs have been put in place?

So you never found proof of an affair during your marriage? Both kissing incidents happened before you were married? Is that correct?

What were the questions that were asked on the polygraph test?