Hello,

I am new here, but my problems are probably not all that new, so I really hope for some advice and help.
I know my husband for 20 years, been married for 15, 2 children.
We were very happy before we got married, almost no fights and we did live together for part of the time, did everything together. Right after wedding I got pregnant and things started to go bad since then. I was left with about 10-12 pounds that could not get rid of, and my husband did not like that. Maybe because he would tell me that, or because of the baby, I don't know, but my sex drive got really low. And my husband did not like that either. Years that followed were full of fights, because of my weight, of sex, or how clean I kept the house, or whatever. Maybe it was the pressure, and the fact that he would only touch me in the sexual content, but he wanted sex at least 2 times a week (not unreasonable, I know) and I could go by with just one time every 2 weeks or so. After too many fights I started to give in, just have sex no mater how I felt. But we would find some other reason to fight anyway.
Two years ago I managed to gain another 10 pounds and my husband lost all interest in me as a women. I mean we were still a family, still did everything together, but he never commented on my weight and hardly wanted any sex. And when he did it was always his way (and still is to this day), he is taking care of me, don't get me wrong, but there are things that I enjoy (and he knows that) and he never does them anymore. That is hard to take. I know everyone could say he was having an affair, but he gave me no reason to believe so. We work in the same company and he is to proud to have an affair at his workplace (he would hate people talking about him like that), and he never went out by himself on weekend.
And, what do you know, the wheel does turn. No idea way, maybe midlife crises or something, but I started to want more of a real relationship with my husband and yes, as crazy as it is, sex. Daily, why not? Go ahead and smile.
Last year has been hard on me. He started new sports, he always wants me to go with him but going uphill on your bike for hours is so no my idea of fun. He works long ours and his job is difficult, yes, but I feel bad when he does not offer to help with the house work on weekends. He thinks he does enough just by getting home a fat paycheck and I should do the rest. We could pay someone to do it, sure we can afford that, but he thing is no big deal to do what I do, so many women are doing it, so what?
He also wants me to be happy and talk all the time with him, my depression and my tears manage to annoy him and push him from me more. But I am not happy, so how can I just keep smiling and creating that light and stress free environment he seems to want? He does not touch me unless is sex (about once every 10-14 days now, better than 2 years ago) or if he's teasing me some way. A light kiss when he comes from work, yes, but feels just like a rutine, nothing more. A hug or real kiss? Hardly ever. However, he can be very affectionate with the children. To envy your children, how sad is that...
Just to make sure you understand is not all bad I'll tell you that is spite of him having a much higher position at work he often calls me to ask my opinion, he said that sometimes I can see things better that him, and he shares with me his problems, insecurites, all that. We can have really good conversations sometimes.
He also feels I am way too sensitive. Anything he says goes to my heart, and sometimes it's just a joke, but I think I feel unloved and unappreciated, and that's why I only want to hear good things from him. I can't stand to hear that bethroom is not very clean, or we're out of mustard again, or food is too hot, or thing like that. Makes me feel like he does not love me because of all my shortcomings. That's probably not true, but that's how I feel.
So, to sum this up, I know he should be more affectionate with me, appreciate me more, keep what I want in mind when it comes to sex...however, there is no way I can make him do all this.
So, the question is, what can I do? Loose the weight, I know, and I will for him but also for me, but this takes time and I want to do something now. I asked him why he does not feel the need to be close to me and he said probably because of all the history, all unmet needs, all the fight. Well, I can't change that. So now what?
Accept to do all housework without expecting any help? Act all happy no meter how sad I feel? Make sure the soup is never, ever too hot? Let him say everything he wants about what I don't do right without letting that depress me? How can I do that??? I should change myself and not expect him to do it right away, but that's so hard. So, story was long, but any advice?
Thanks.

Welcome to MB.

You have found the best place to learn to have a romantic marriage.

Have you read all the links in here?
Start Here First-Welcome Aboard

Yes, thank you, I've been reading advice from this site, still not sure how to fix it.

aia, if you and your husband went through this program you could turn this all around completely. You could fall in love again and learn to meet each others needs in a way that makes you both happy. I can tell that one of your top emotional needs is affection and your husband simply doesn't know HOW to meet your need effectively. This program would teach him how.

What is lacking here are the necessary skills to resolve problems in a way that protects the love in your marriage. If you will read this article, it explains how the program works. How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

Would he agree to counsel with the Harleys? Most couples that show up here needing help have at least one reluctant spouse. Dr Harley's children, Dr Jennifer Chalmers and Steve Harley do counseling and they are very effective in persuading reluctant spouses to get on board. See, it is in your husbands best interest to have a happy, romantic marriage but he doesn't know how to achieve that. People buy things when they see a perceived benefit. They could show him how this program would benefit him.

The Harleys are completely different from other counselors in that they don't waste any time. They assess your situation and give you a plan. They are action oriented versus feeling oriented.

When women are depressed it is usually because of their marriage, by the way.

We live in Europe and my husband would never agree to that.Some time ago after reading on this site I asked him by email what are the top 5 things he needs from me. He never answered the email but told me later that taking about it like that does not help and I should know the answer. He's right, I know he wants me to take better care of myself and look better, be a better and happier companion for him and keep the house in order without complaning or asking for help.
I was hoping to find advice on how to get the mindset to give him all that when he ignores my most important need.

That won't get you a healthy marriage, though.. That will just cause resentment and make the situation worse.

Once again, I would try counseling with the Harleys. They might be able to sell him on the idea of having a happy, romantic marriage. WE have many Europeans who counsel with them over the phone. They won't counsel you together anyway, so you don't need his agreement for now. Steve Harley could tell you what to say to persuade him to speak to him and get his perspective on the marriage.

Sorry, but not possible.
If I can get any advice here would be great. If not I will try to figure out by myself what to do.

There isn't anything we can do to help if you won't take the advice, though. Sorry.

Is not that I don't want to, I just can't!
I have seen people post their problems here and get more than just " get therapy with Harleys", so I was expecting the same thing. If it's not possible, than that's fine. Thanks.

Sorry you didn't like those answers. If you know of a better way to motivate your husband I think you should try it. I wish you the best..

Have you read this?

How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts
and Restore Love to Your Marriage
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/mb.cfm/9/58

Yes, I did. And my husband is not in love with me anymore, which is why he does not feel like giving me affection. So I have to do all the work for the begining, until I make some deposits in his love bank. Is that the message I should get?

Can you email them?

Email your questions to Joyce Harley at mbradio@marriagebuilders.com. When your email question is chosen to be answered on the radio show, you will be notified by email directing you to listen to the rebroadcast. If you would like to consider being a caller, include your telephone number. You will be called by us to explain the procedure to you. Every caller will receive a complementary book by Dr. Harley that addresses their question.

I'm sorry to hear about this very sad situation, aia. I had a marriage like that, where my H just was not interested in me. The deadlock was broken by his having an affair, so I obviously cannot recommend our path to you.

You mentioned your depression in an earlier post, and you do emphasise that you lack the ability to do something about the things that you know he would like you to improve. You seem to have identified his ENs quite well, and you want a happy marriage, but you seem unable to improve the things that you are not doing very well.

I think you would benefit from a consultation with your doctor about depression. He might feel that a course of anti-depressants would be beneficial to you.

There are alternatives to medication, such as daily, vigorous exercise, which would also help with your weight management, and herbal remedies such as St john's Wort, that people speak highly of. You could also join a weight management programme where members meet weekly and support each other. The support and friendship would probably help with your motivation.

I think there might be an underlying problem of depression.

Thank you for advice, SugarCane!
I'm really not sure depresion is the right word, but I am sad a lot and don't have the energy to do as much as I want to. My husband is not all that bad, and he can be very nice...but does not show me affection. Well, not the way I want to. Like today he knew I was out of milk for my capucino and went to the store to get it, without me asking him. Which I appreciate...but still need a hug and a kiss.
I will try out your advice and concentrate on getting my diet in order and exercise . Maybe that would help on several levels. Thanks again.

Don't try this alone. You've been doing it alone so far and it hasn't worked.

Join a group or an online programme with accountability. I think accountability will make all the difference for you.

I asked my H for an annual exercise classes membership where I work, for Christmas. I then pledged to go to enough classes to make the annual fee worthwhile. I have been to every class that I possibly could, either at lunchtimes or at 5PM, sometimes doing a double class if it is something like weight training followed by spinning - using different kinds of muscle-work. I "paid off" the membership fee by late March, I have new muscles and I look a lot better, and I have lost about 12 pounds since new year - nothing startling, but manageable for me, and such fun. I never thought I'd like kickboxing!

Could you do something like that, or perhaps even go on an exercise boot camp for a week, to kick-start your motivation? I think that you might need something radical with accountability built in, in order to get into good habits.

There are other ways of motivating yourself about housework, too. People here have written about the FlyLady website, which encourages you to tackle a small amount, rigorously, every day. Have you heard of it?

I am not offering these things instead of the advice to get your H to use the full MB programme, but in addition to it. Yo are not going to solve your marital problems by one-sidedly cleaning the house and losing weight. These things aren't going to tackle your H's motivation. But they will definitely give you confidence and improve you self-esteem. Nevertheless, the best cure for low confidence and self-esteem is a happy marriage. It is amazing how depression disappears when a woman has this.

I live in Europe too - London. I used the coaching centre on my own, just once, and they got my H to speak to them, just once, and that had a tremendous effect on his attitude (to ending his affair - which is not your problem as far as I can see). I would speak to them yourself. What have you got to lose? I can't see why you were so dismissive of that advice.

I really appreciate you taking the time to write all this. I think you are probably right. I will try, but it's hard, I get home at 6 pm at best every day, and since my husband comes home even later my kids would never spend time with a parant if I go to gym and be home by 8. I know I need to do it for me, it's just hard. I see what I can do about it.
Are you saying whatever I do my husband will not change? I am not dismisive of the advice, but I live in a country where therapy by phone will probably cost my monthly salary. My husband will not agree to that since he does not belive in this way of fixing the problem and I can' t go without his consent. He would never spend money unless I know and I agree, so I need to do the same.
Thanks again, I will try a way to get the exercise and be accountable for it and I will check the website you said.

I'm not saying that the gym is the only solution to your problems. In fact, I hate proper gyms (with running machines etc) and I only ever go to the exercise classes.

But your point is one of time, which I appreciate. My kids are much older than yours and don't need hours of my attention, and my H is retired and at home all day, so I usually come home to someone else having cooked my supper (my daughter loves cooking), and I can veg out all evening if I want to.

However, before I got this exercise membership I became a keen runner almost by accident. My friend and I went to an exercise class and found it cancelled, and went for a run in the park instead because we were all dressed in our lycra and geared up for exercise, and could not run 20 yards. We were horrified. We decided to go twice a week, together, Saturday mornings and one morning before work (at about 8AM). We kept that up for 10 years until last autumn. I got so much confidence that I could go alone as well, and so usually managed 3 sessions of about 4 miles each week for that ten years. When D Day hit in 2005, running became an obsession and between it and the infidelity diet I lost a lot of weight and looked fabulous.

Before his knees finally gave way after much football-playing in his youth, my H would sometimes come with me to the park. I was happy for us to split up at the park gates and meet up after we'd done our separate runs, but would your H go with you and run beside you, even if he does not get much out of it himself? Indeed, when my 9-10 year-old son was bored, he would come out with me on his bike. He found it funny to cycle in circles around me, calling out instructions. If he had a friend over, I would tell him to bring his bike to play, and we would all go out, me and my two bodyguards. If you have a dog you could turn a walk into a very brisk walk with the odd bit of trotting thrown in, until your breathing improves and you can run with the dog.

Can you find a friend, your husband, a child or a dog to go out with, perhaps early before work, or in these light evenings? I have in the past got up at 6.30 to go, and I regularly used to go after work, with my son, at 6PM when the daylight was good. There was a time when I would drop my son at a gymnastics class for an hour in the evenings, then run round the school running track, then pick him up and go home to shower.

You can do a lot from home if you need to be home with your kids. You can get some cheap weights and a skipping rope and do weights, skipping and squats in the back garden while they laugh at you.

Don't make excuses why you can't do this. Be creative and make it happen - and involving your H will improve your marriage, too.

And no, not I'm not saying that whatever you do alone will not work on your H. If he sees a real change from you he might well be motivated to spend more time having fun with you, which is the core of making this programme work. I am just trying not to burden you with the idea that you must bear the load alone.

Do you understand Dr Harley's concept of UA time? Do you and your H get out of the house alone together, to have fun? What do you do together? If you don't, then why not?

Aia,

I have 2 kids, the oldest is only 2. There are a lot of workouts that can be done at home just as good as, if not even more effective, than the gym. For example, kettlebells. I have several workouts, one of which is 12 minutes (only) of high intensity training that I can do when my baby is a fusspot and can't give me moer than 15 minutes. Some days, I am up at 5am training before he wakes (or after his last 4-5am feed).

It's work but most of all it is HABIT because eventually you learn to appreciate the "you" time that actually also fulfills your spouses's need for physical attractiveness (my husband, like most men, values this highly too).

See, different situation. I don' t even have any family around to help me, but I should just let some stuff go and take care of me.
We do spend time together, going to eat out or just a walk. A few times we managed to go on a few days vacantion alone, have one planned for july in fact. We talk a lot about diffrent problems...when we don't fight about something is like we are best friends. That's not bad, but at least for me...not enough.
My husband is more advanced in sports like biking snd skiing, but he will go slower with me if I want to go. Too many times I am too disapointed and sad to be in the mood for that. So it's like a cycle.
I actualy think that's the problem.

Why won't you at least email the Harleys? It's free.

Let's flesh out the "non-pharmaceutical" options for depression, SugarCane already mentioned St. John's wart and exercise.

For supplements; vitamins B6, folic acid, magnesium, and Omega-3's (think Fish Oil capsules) have shown to help improve mood.

Make sure you are getting 6-8 hours of good sleep each night. I have trouble falling asleep, so 5mg of melatonin helps with this.

Minimize any intake of caffiene - caffiene interupts rest, and caffiene "crashes" will worsen your mood. Also; avoid alcohol.

Watch your carbohydrate intake - high sugar meals will lead to a sugar "crash," worsening your mood.


Lastly - start building good, busy habits. Too much time to sit and think will just feed the obsessive thought processes of depression.



As for your busy habits; I would suggest printing out the available material here, or ordering the marriage builders books - and with either, really studying them. This means not just reading, but reading with 2 things in hand; a pen for making margin notes, and a highlighter for highlighting important sections.


Your depression may actually be a symptom of your marriage, and arming yourself to improve your marriage and/or move on if your husband won't get on board to do so will likely be a deciding factor in the long-term prognosis of your depression.

Thank you. I will try my best to do at least some of what you said. I'll email, buy some vitamins and read some more material.
I get about 6-7 hours of sleep, but my diet have too much sugar in it, so I need to make some changes there...but it's hard, I am probably adicted to it.
I have no intention to leave my husband, however. It would just be nice if we could start changing in the same time, it's hard to do it first just with the hope he'll be motivated to give you what you need.
Thanks, again. Talking about it has helped me, I think.

I think this is were I am now, this decribes best what my situation is:
"If you set a good example by meeting your spouse's needs first, alas, that usually means that your own needs are met last. Your Taker is not pleased with this arrangement, and may try to sabotage it. You will need to make a deliberate and patient effort to override the Taker's instinct to retreat back to fighting and name-calling. But if you resist that instinct to argue, and instead focus attention on behaving thoughtfully and meeting your spouse's needs, your spouse will be encouraged to reciprocate.

Granted, when in the state of Conflict, it's much more difficult to be thoughtful and meet each other's emotional needs. That's because the Taker's advice dominates the Giver's advice, and the Taker isn't interested in thoughtfulness or meeting someone else's needs. So if you want to return to Intimacy, you must override this instinct with great effort. Meeting an emotional need in marriage is easy when you are in the state of Intimacy, because the Giver encourages you to do just that. But in the state of Confict, it seems very unnatural and even unfair."

People makes suggestions like this because they have the knowledge and experience to see that you have not been successful at motivating your husband to meet your needs . Your marriage is sick, and after 20 years, it is getting worse. You can turn this around but having a 3rd party to help is better because obviously your husband doesn't see the benefit to listening to you.

The people here have nothing to gain by making these suggestions other than seeing lives change for the better.

Thank you for your advice.
I know a 3th opinion would benefit, and I know people are only trying to help by recommending this, but my H is not up to this. Not now.
As for the changes I'm trying to make, I'm not sure I understand you. Form this site I got the idea that you can make your spouse fall in love with you again ( and then he would meet your needs) if you will meet his needs. So if I know he wants my slim and wants a clean house and conversation without me looking so sad all the time, then by fixing these problems he should change too. One spouse can determine the other back in the Intimacy state, or so I've read here. Am I wrong?

And if he's not, at least I'll know I did all I could.

Thanks.

While it is possible to lure your H back into intimacy you will be far more effective if he provides input to what his ENs are and what he sees as your LBs. You can guess � good luck with that. I tried guessing what was blocking the romantic love in my M by myself for 10 years, attempting to apply what I learned on this site. It was ineffective. 2 months with my W and I talking with Dr J (Jennifer Chalmers) and our R is way different than it was before. We are definitely more in love and are more centered around providing care and protection of the M. The key being a mutual agreement to work this program.

You speaking for him in not participating in MB is NOT all you can do. I just want to point that out.

Ok, but if he does not want to talk about it with someone else and said I should now what his needs are as he was telling me about them for years, what can I do? I can only assume things he complains about are the ones that are important to him. And I can try to fix them. It's going to be hard, and sure it would be better if he did the same about my needs, but I'm not sure what else I should do. He's a big guy, can't really force him

I started on vitaminB6 and magnezium today, did a little exercise yesterday, will try to keep sugar out of my 1200-1400 calories diet.
If you think there is something different that I should do, than let me know, because I don't. I'm just trying to do my part and keep things pleasant and calm at home.

The trouble with your plan is it is all one sided. You are going to Plan A his butt off by getting in shape, being more pleasant, taking better care of yourself, etc. Meanwhile you drain your tank trying to entice him into meeting your needs.

Your M could use some better behaviors. I would try to get him involved in learning about Dr. Harley's program. This may but doesn't have to include seeing a counselor. Not yet anyways.

Sure, let him know you�re going to work on a few things to improve the way you meet his needs but I�d be radically honest with him. Let him know your R is missing something. Some spark. Some Romance. Let him know some of your needs aren�t being taken care of. Let him know there are still some fundamental behaviors missing in your M that go above and beyond you not getting your needs met.

How much Undivided Attention time do you and him get during the week meeting the 4 intimate needs of Conversation, Affection, SF and Recreational Companionship? Serious alone time . No distractions. No kids. No other couples, etc. Just you and him interacting.

How Open and Honest (Policy of Radical Honesty - PORH) is your R?

Do you to have Independent Behaviors or do you make all decisions that are mutually enthusiastic to the both of you (POJA)?

I really like what DidntQuit posted to you. The concept of MB is so foreign to most married couples. That's because most Ms don't have a plan or a recipe for success. They go into it with blind faith and unconditional love.

By the time the R starts to deteriorate most spouses have got their Taker out or they�re in such a Giver mode that neither is helping the R grow. Instead they enable more bad behaviors.

Dr. Harley�s program has a plan for all that. A marriage plan. Go figure. Who�d a thunk it.

I emailed him a while ago an article from this site. Asked ab out it later, he said he didn't have time to read. I insisted and he got upset with my "internet stuff", while to him it was clear what the problems are. S o what do you want me to do???
He knows I'm not happy and something is missing for me, but he said it's just what he feels. Or not feel, to be more exact. I will le him know I'm trying to change things, but I am not going to pressure him on the subject, maybe try with more subtile ways. I asked him today if he wants to go for a run when he gets home and he said sure.
And to answer a question we spend time together, don't know how many hours, walking, going out for dinner without the kids. I think we are open and honest and so far nothing happend in our family unless we both agree. Sometimes one of us will just give in, but at least we don't just go ahead and whatever.
I know you think he should participate from the beginning, I just don't think it will happend by talking. If he will see I'm serious about changing...maybe he'll do it too.

Whoa. We certainly weren't recommending you make a demand. That's not the way to move things in a positive direction.

Please read this ---> When to tell your spouse "We have a problem."

You are going to keep getting the same advice here. Get yourself some professional help if you can't get your relunctant spouse on board.

If you can�t get him on board with a thoughtful request it is time for you to go solo with a professional from this site. They are very good at helping individuals getting their relunctant spouses on board. Your H needs to hear what is in it for him and they�ll help you get there.

Aia, I would also check out this article. In it, Dr H advises a woman in a similar situation. He has expounded on this advice on his radio show and told other women to give their husband a "Plan A" letter where she outlines how sad she is about the state of the marriage and tells him what she will need from him to be happy. She then does a fairly short Plan A. If he refuses to meet her needs, then separation is warranted. In the case study in this article, that is how the marriage was transformed. http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2264789#Post2264789

My husband likes to talk to me, he's honest, provides a more than fine financiar support and is commited to the family. That's four needs out of five, as I am a typical woman. Just because he does not feel attracted to me now I'm not going to even think about separation. I think I was the one failling to meet his needs for many years. So I will try that plan A and if nothing happends maybe insist some more on couseling, as I know you are right to recommand it. Like I said, it will cost money and I can' t spend it without his agreement.
Maybe I'll say something about reading from this site, see what he will say.

Thank you for writing to me!

The whole point of meeting ENs in marriage is to create romance and happiness. If you are not happy then your needs are not being met effectively. (FS does not produce romantic love since it is not an intimate EN)

That is the whole point of the Plan A letter. To help your husband understand what it will take to make you happy.

i get the sense that you are not really looking for solutions but for easy, window dressing moves that will make you feel like you are doing something. Even with Plan A, that is not intended to be a way of life for conflict avoiders, but a very short term plan to prime the
pump. If it does not produce a result in a short period of time, Dr Harley recommends separation for the reasons explained in the article. Did you actually read the article?

You do understand that success is contingent upon taking ACTION? And I would not include blogging on that list.

Yes, I read the article.
And I told him already many times what it will take to make me happy, he just can't feel like giving it to me. Do you really think just repeting myself in a letter will make the difference?

What I am trying to do is Not an easy move and I can only hope it's not more Action that I can handle. That is way I am on this forum. To get encoraged to meet my H 's needs, as it's said on this site it is what brings back the happiness.

Well, you won't know unless you try. How long are you willing to try Plan A? And what is your plan if he still refuses to meet our needs?

I don't know what I will do, but to have separation in mind would be very demotivating for me.
I don't know also for how long I can do it, I just started. And I hope my H will notice soon. Do you really advice that I plan for separation if he's not??

I wouldn't be demotivated about possible separation since that might be a solution. The goal is to solve the problem, right? You want what that woman in the article got, don't you? See, long plan A's are not very successful for women. There are a couple of reasons. The first is that meeting ENs with little to no reciprocation wears a woman down quickly. They experience emotional and physical damage from doing this too long.

The second reason is that competing for a man is unattractive and often can have the opposite effect. I would think that if your Plan A is going to make a difference, you should see big changes within 3 months. If not, you might have to accept that separation has to be part of the solution. I would plan for that eventuality so you are prepared.

Well, I really can't bring myself to consider that now. Two months from now? I don't know. But what I am sure is that I need to find enough motivation to at least start changing and that keep that enough for him to see a difference. There is at least hope that can help, right?

You are motivated to do what it takes to have a great marriage, right? Does that motivate you? And wouldn't you be more motivated if you planned to succeed? How motivated will you be if you don't see results in 3 months? My point is that you can't throw all your hopes into one basket. It is better to accept that plan A alone might not achieve your goal and plan for that eventuality.

I would put off worrying about what you're going to actually do once you complete a Plan A. It's hard for you to know what you�re going to feel like say 3 months from now. You�ll cross that road when you get there. However you need to let him know now it is your hope that things change � for everybody.

I would focus your energy on how you're going to do this Plan A. Mel has given you great insight on what to do. I know you don't want to do the letter because your H is only willing to do what he wants to do and gives you a hard time no matter what you do. But avoiding what you feel is a confrontation could hurt your Plan A.

You can�t control him but you can control you. You can set a path, communicate that path to him, letting him know you hope for change, with possible consequences if they don�t and then you head down that path. Do the best Plan A ever. Radical Honesty.

So maybe you don�t throw down the separation card but you can certainly say it will be difficult to stay in a M where you aren�t happy.

I just re-read the article and noticed that Dr Harley recommends ONE month of Plan A, so I was incorrect when I said three months. And in his advice he never says to tell the spouse that you will separate, but to let it come as a surprise.

Aia, would you classify yourself as a conflict avoider?

Short Answer: YES.

Long Answer: Everyone else has given you sufficient help to get you going. But, I will tell you a bit about my history and hope that it will help motivate you to avoid the conflict and follow through with your gut on this stuff.

Had I arrived here many years ago, I would have resisted the advice to separate as well. I would have thought that separation is for people having affairs or who just couldn't get along. I would have felt like a failure, and gotten flack from my family. I would have thought that these people were crazy, and pushing divorce. But that is not the case. IMO it is better to have the crisis now, in order to build a healthy marriage for the future. The sooner you start better marital habits, the less damage is done, and the better chance for happiness later.

My husband disconnected right after the wedding. Almost like, now we're married, time for real life, not dating anymore. I FELT my husband didn't care about me, but I did not want to BELIEVE that he didn't. I thought that I could be patient and that over time, he would change. I tried to solve the problems that he VERBALIZED, which of course, didn't bring us any closer. They were SYMPTOMS of UNDERLYING, FOUNDATIONAL PROBLEMS with how we were relating.

I held out, and things got very bad. He knew that I was the problem(true),and I knew that he was the problem (true). Over the years, we went to several counselors who neither diagnosed properly nor gave solutions. I felt invisible, imprisoned and cheated. I got angry and he got to the point of wanting a divorce.

After learning a better way, and making significant progress, my husband has told me several times that I SHOULD HAVE separated from him early on, since he was so resistant to caring for/working with me.

Whatever problems you have in your marriage are a result of both of your ideas about marriage and your habits. The bad news is that most people don't change their thinking without a crisis of some sort showing them what they will lose if they don't, and what they stand to gain if they do.

The good news? If you ultimately need to separate to get the point across, you have AWESOME TOOLS and the instruction of an experienced, successful, psychologist who educates in a way that appeals to men. The basic rules which Dr. Harley lays out, are more helpful than years of therapy visits. You can continue to learn on your own. In fact, you can do much of the beginning stages on your own, just as prior posters have mentioned.

I agree with Melody Lane about writing a Plan A letter. I think that if I had put my feelings into writing years ago, at least my husband would have seen that I was SERIOUS, and that my love for him was diminishing. It's also a great opportunity to express your love for him and desire for him to be happy too. To let him know that all is not lost, just because you are complaining. Duh. Why didn't I think of that so many years ago?

The worst thing you can do is to avoid the conflict and hide your disappointment. That is completely UNFAIR to your husband. Respectfully give him the clear, direct truth, and a layout of what you would like to see, and you will learn a lot by how he responds.

And....when discussing all of this with him, it will help tremendously if you have a pleasant, hopeful attitude, and a big SMILE.

Good example/post DidntQuit

As I said, I told my H that I'm not happy and I want our M to be different many, many times, but since he has his own complaines that ended up in fights almost every time. So I don't see how I am a conflict avoider and my H could never say it was not fair to him because he did not know how serious it was for me.
On the other hand he told me my attractivness was very important to him for years, but I just liked chocolate better. So now I loose 3-4 pounds in a month and than get him out of the house if he does not get with the changes? That just does not seem right, I'm sorry.
"And in his advice he never says to tell the spouse that you will separate, but to let it come as a surprise." - this sounds like manipulation to me.

I'm not trying to say your advice is not good, but just that every situation is different. It's a case where we BOTH failed to meet each other's needs and just because I try to make some changes for a month does not seem right to take such a drastic step if it takes him longer to do the same. Now if 3 months from now I made serious progress and he makes no effort to appreciate me or at least start to do the same...that is probably a point where something has to happen.

I really hope you don't see my answer as not wanted to take your advice...I really appreciate it and talking about it with you all helped me to be more aware that some changes are really needed in my M.

Dr Harley only recommends a short time for women. It isn�t written in stone though! You decided how long you can continue to do a Plan A. Your barometer will be your lovebank. If you feel you are losing your feelings of love for him THAT IS WHEN something has to happen. That something is Plan B (separation). FYI Plan B is more than just a separation. You may end up having to educate yourself on that sooner or later.

But you aren�t there yet. Right now you�re in Plan A. And the first step for you doing your Plan A is to let your H know what your intentions are. To lay them out there in front of him so he can, in effect, hold you accountable. It is what we all need from our spouses. �I�m going to do this.�. Him: �You aren�t doing these things.�. And so on �.

Here is why I love this site. You can put together a Plan A letter. Show it to the wonderful posters on this forum and they will help you critique it (while also educating you why it is being crafted the way it is). You will learn while you put to use some powerful actions that are going to reshape your M.

If I were you I would read DidntQuit�s last post over and over. It is well said and I think hits to the heart of what you need to sink into your head. Right now your conflict avoider is preventing you from taking it all in.


Never, ever fight with your H. NEVER!!

Here is where my W and I ALWAYS got stuck. We�d spend all our time saying �Oh yeah, well look at what you do !!!!!�. We�d never get anywhere because we would both be so defensive about our position. Never did we seek to understand the other person�s perspective. Nope. We were too busy tossing our Taker out there.

The next time he complains (regardless if he�s doing the defensive thing I just mentioned or not) you thank him for his complaints. You say back to him what you heard AND if you know of things you can or are going to do to remedy his complaints you let him know of those things.

That will be the way YOU CHANGE the M. You be the lighthouse. You show him the proper way to file complaints and the proper response to them.

Aia, you have much to learn and you are in the perfect place to do just that. Stick around, keep reading, order more of Dr Harleys materials. Things will get better. Have you read all the non-infidelity and non-addiction related Articles under the Articles link in the banner at the top?

I really like and understand your post. There are some things that got to me from it. Thank you.

I did not read much about the ifidelity or affairs, since we never had that problem, but I think I read everthing else on the site, Q&A included. I got a little better at calming a situation down in the last few days exactlly in the way you suggested, but I'm still having problems with the diet. Sometimes I'm so upset with me for not being able to stick to it. I need a better plan for that part.

Thanks again.

Didn�t you say your H invited you to partake in some exercise together? Dr Harley believes exercising is one of the BEST things a couple can do together. It deposits lots of love units. Maybe you could negotiate what kind and how strenuous of a routine you�re willing to do?

Manipulation would be if you used separation to manipulate him. You are not doing that. The whole point of Plan A is to meet his needs and show a willingness for the one month before separation. So in that time, you would demonstrate a willingness to meet his needs. You don't have to lose ALL the weight, just show him that you are working on it.

So, you don't need to wait 3 months to effectively demonstrate your willingness to make changes. It might take you longer than that to arrange a separation, of course. Have you been thinking about how you would do it?

And are you working on the Plan A letter?

What kind of diet are you on and how much weight do you have to lose? If you are on a low fat diet, you will probably never lose weight. Have you tried a low carb diet? Low carb diets are much easier to stick to once you cut out foods that jack up your blood sugar. It is blood sugar spikes that cause food cravings.

My nemesis. Cravings. Arrrgggghhhh.

I can't plan for separation. Just can't.
Does it have to be letter? Can I just tell him? As I said he does not like letters and emails about this subject and maybe I should reach out to him the best way.

I need to loose about 20-22 pounds to look good. Sugar is my problem. I eat some carbs, but not much, I'll try some low carb diet, sounds like it's working.

Yes, write him the letter so there is no confusion and no emotional discussion.

Umm.. there can still be emotional discussion even with a letter. My husband actually cried. ( The one and only time I've ever seen him cry!!!) He was so incredibly upset and crushed and then really mad.. So there will be emotions.

Ummm, hello... SHE won't be emotional when she writes the letter. The point is to make sure her feelings are clearly communicated and not muddied in an emotional discussion.

Exactly. She should post the letter on the fridge (assuming he won't take it / read it). This letter is for HIS benefit whether he realizes its importance or not.

But that won't help her feelings from getting muddled. My hubby was SO upset and I ended up backtracking quite a bit because I couldn't stand to get him upset. I couldn't keep my head straight when he questioned about that. He kept asking questions and I ended up in tears despite writing the letter. So yes, i understand she will get it all down, but she may not still be able to be unemotional.

I have NO DOUBT she�ll be emotional. She�ll be emotional when she writes it, when she gives it to him, if he reads it, if he doesn�t read it, if he agrees with what she put on it, if he disagrees with what she put on it, etc. She is very unhappy. There is no greater or horrible emotion than unhappiness. It comes out in many different ways (sadness, apathy, anger, etc). If he reads it and likes what he�s read � (relief, joy, energy, etc.).

There is nothing that says she has to be there if and when he reads it. She need not be present when she leaves it for him to read.

�I left a personal goal list on the fridge. I would love it if you took the time to read it. For now it is all I ask of you.�.

If he chooses to read it, great. If not that is his choice. Point being is she is laying out her mantra and it will be a reminder of her goal. If it�s on the fridge it will be a daily reminder for her (and him if he chooses to read it).

That is one of the key things I was tasked with when counseling with Dr J. A daily goal sheet. �What are my to-do(s) for today?�. I put it in my lunch pail so every day I saw my reminder, my goals. Granted my goals where my W�s listed ENs instead of ones I had to figure out myself but meeting ENs are meeting ENs.
At first I thought, this is phoney. This is fake-it-til-you-make-it stuff. But soon thereafter � it was habit. I haven�t looked at my to-do sheet in weeks. It�s all natural now � and it feels genuine.

Would you mind stopping disrupting this thread? We are trying very hard to help this woman. This thread is not about YOU.

I second Melody's thoughts on low carb! It is by far the easiest way to lose and control weight! After I (thought) I was done having children and was HUGE I went on a traditional low cal-low fat diet...wow what a struggle! Talk about slow, constantly hungry, and battling the lbs! UGH!

Attractive spouse is often a top EN for men. Good for you for addressing this issue head on!

Another good natural anti depression med. available everywhere is 5htp. St. Johns wort is great but can't be taken with certain other meds such as thyroid Rx.

Post it on the frige is not a good ideea. This is between me and my H, I don't want the kids to read it. They may figure it out something is going on, but my letter should not be read by them. Al least that's what I think.

The problem is I don't want to say anything before I get a good start on what I am going to do. I am addicted to sugar, like I said, and still not have a very good diet and exercise plan in place. I don't want to tell him I will do something and then let him see me eat some chiocolate. Yes, I know, my M should be more important that any food, but it's not easy. I've been trying a little harder this past week and my scale shows the same number, so I'm a little down on that.
I will try from today on that low carb diet, but only the one that includes vegetable and 1 fruit/day. I can't eat meat and eggs only. I really feel like I need to do all the right things for at least a few days before announce it him. I was not able to do it for years, so I need to make sure this time I can. Don't you agree?

I don't think it will be any shoking news for him. He already knows everything I plan to tell him, except of what it is that I'm going to do to fix it.

There are plenty of good diet plans out there that are low carb. I've done South Beach. Worked fabulously especially if you struggle with cravings. Just be sure you get plenty of fiber intake from allowable sources. I struggled with digestive issues (regularity) while doing it and had to stop. I lost 23 pounds doing South Beach.

An even better overall health plan is the Paleo diet (caveman diet). I have a very dear friend who is controlling her thyroid condition by simply following this eating plan. She avoids having to take any medications by simply watching what she eats.

If you want to lose weight fast Medifast works well for that � but boy it�s a tough doing it. Yes I did it and lost 17 pounds in 7 weeks. But boy I didn�t feel well the whole time. Had I immediately switched to South Beach or Paleo after this diet I probably would be better off today. I didn�t and so just one more yo-yo diet I did.

FYI: If you�ve never watched the movie Food, Inc I highly recommend it. It�ll make you think seriously about what you eat and what we as a country could do to make this a healthier place to live.

Neither of these diets are meat and eggs only. Do some research on some plans before you start throwing your assumptions out there about them. Knowing what I know about South Beach and Paleo I would never recommend someone use the Atkins diet.

As far as the letter ... so you can't post it on the fridge. It feels like you get caught up in arguing semantics and lose sight of the message being sent to you. If you need us to give you exact directions on how to complete certain tasks like how to reveal a Plan A letter to your hubby we can do that. Just let us know.

What I�d really like to hear from you is that you are agreeing with some of the ideas being given you and your not avoiding answering the specific advice as a means of avoiding conflict.

Are you going to create and give your H a Plan A letter?

Sounds like you'd like to keep your options open so you're OK to fail.

I think a better idea is to create a plan for improvement, communicate to someone who will hold you accountable (who better than the one person that stands to benefit from your success) and execute the plan.

An addict needs to go cold turkey. Get a very good diet plan lined up and execute it. This will be listed in your Plan A diet. I bet your H will be intrigued to see you make a stance, set a course. Once you begin to successfully implement the plan he will be even more intrigued, on board, helpful, etc.

aia,

I know it sounds like I'm coming down on you hard and I probably am. But only because I know what you are doing ... well because I do it to. I hate conflict. Avoid it with a passion. Lately I've really learned being Open and Honest ALWAYS has the best outcome. Radical Honesty. To your spouse and to yourself.

Thanks for the info. Paleo diet is actually what I've been reading about and sounds ok. But avoinding sugar will be hard. Very hard. I don't care about fast food, fried food, no problem. But sugar...I don't know. I'll try my best. Maybe eat a little dark chocolate (which I don't like much) just to keep me going for a while.

Yes, I plan a letter, but like I said I'm wainting a little to make sure I have what it takes to make all those changes. My H heard me before saying that I'm going to loose the weight and I never did, so I don't want this to be another time like that.

Also, what should be on the letter? Can you give me some general points I should try to make?
Thanks.

Don't worry about coming down on me hard, I'm only very sensitive when my H does it.

I see your point about cold turkey. I wish it was a little easier...

I would start working on the letter now. You can still give it to him even though you might not be perfect at first. The point of the letter is not to guarantee perfection, but to a) express your willingness and b) to tell him you are unhappy and c) what it will take to make you happy..


Eliminate the fruits. You shouldn't be eating fruit if you are trying to lose weight because it just causes sugar cravings and creates more glucose for your body to burn off before it gets to the stored body fat. That is like trying to push a car up the hill with the parking brake on. There isn't a single nutrient in fruit you can't get in meat and low carb vegetables. Some good low carb vegetables are broccoli, green beans, kale, spinach, cucumbers. You can have a salad with your lunch and a cup or 2 of green veggies with your supper.

Have you removed all the candy from the house?


In the letter you will lay out to what you need from him to make you happy.. That is the point of the letter.

Sugar was my hardest thing because I was so addicted to it. You can't "try" to stop it, you have to have a plan to quit it. So the first step is to quit cold turkey. Get all the chocolate out of the house - even dark chocolate. After a few days you won't even want it.

The tapering method really is just an excuse to continue to eating sweets. And it doesn't work. Better to get it over with rather than prolonging the agony.

Tell him how unhappy you are and line out what it will take to make you happy. Tell him you want a marriage where both of you are happy and are having your needs met. Tell him you have started a low carb diet and want to meet his need for PA. But the point of the letter is to tell him what you need from him to be happy.

aia, the best diets out there are Atkins or Protein Power, but most low carb diets are Atkins knocks offs anyway. I have been on Atkins for 15 years now and it is what my endocrinologist recommends to all her patients. [or Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Diet] She is the top weight loss doctor, endocrinologist, in Houston.

If you really want to understand the science behind why low carb diets are so healthy and effective, read "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes.

Thank you. I'll read some more about this type of diet.

If you understand HOW we get fat, you will understand the most effective way to eat. For example, when you eat carbohydrates, you cause your blood sugar to rise. The body converts the carbohydrates to glucose. When that happens insulin is released by the pancreas. Insulin is the fat storing hormone. So when insulin is released, the glucose is stored as body fat. This is how people get fat.

But that is not the case when you eat fat and protein. Fat and protein is metabolized and not stored as body fat. When you eat fruit, starchy veggies, sugar, refined flour, you make it that much harder to burn your body fat because the body has to burn through your excess glucose stores to even get to your body fat.

By cutting carbohydrates down to the bare minimum you deplete your body's glucose stores and force your body to use its stored body fat for fuel.

In studies, low carb diets are more successful in the long term because you are not hungry on them. They don't rely on calorie deprivation to be successful. Low carb diets are much better for your overall health too.

Thank you. Since I've been eating 1200 calories per day with no results I think you might be right.
I'll read some more on it tonight and start tomorrow. Breakfast will be the hard one as well, I'm used to eat cereal with milk or peanut butter sandwishes. Eggs or cheese it's just not attractive to me first thing in the morning.
I'll find a way. I have to. I'm kind of tired of having this problem all the time.

Sounds like you have an opportunity to do a little research Aia. Find the low carb diet that will work for you.

My W is a carboholic and she tells herself she can't give them up ergo there is always candy and carbs in the house. My nemisis.

As Mel explained after a few days of doing a low carb diet where (like on SBD in Stage 1) you eliminate all sugars you will no longer crave sugar. It is a nasty substance that reeks havoc on our bodies. Cravings, cravings, cravings. Arggh. I hate 'em. I am a choco-holic. After eating a big meal I crave it something fierce. No amount of will power can override the craving.

The best option for eating is to rid oneself of the cravings and that is done by getting the sugar entirely out of your system.

Here were some things that were startling to me in my research when trying to find an eating plan:

No fruit - fructose
Certain veggies - too many carbs
No milk - lactose

You've studied Paleo, that's good. Do some reading on Atkins and South Beach. These aren't diets. They are new ways of eating. Things you will do for life (if you want to control your weight and health).

Look these over and more specifically look at the meals you will make. Find which one best fits into what you think you'd like to eat and what you think you would be able to and enjoy making.

Why have cereal, or eggs or cheese for breakfast? Nothing to stop you from eating last night's leftovers. Sure you can mix in some eggs and various other things (low fat cheeses, etc) but if what you ate for supper was healthy it's just as good for breakfast. I think I read that in a Paleo book.

No chocolate, no fruit, no milk or yogurt? Forever? That sounds really hard to me. Not sure I have what it takes.
I can understand abour sugar and forever.
I can see maybe give up on fruit for a while. But never eat it again? Not even an apple? Hard.
I think Paleo lets you eat yogurt and maybe a fruit per day, am I wrong?

(By the way, sorry if I make some mistakes, English is not my first language... )

I never said forever. Read up on South Beach. They have this concept in Stage 2 that allows you to eat healthy fruits and vegetables but they need to be consumed with other elements to prevent your body from converting the sugars to stored fat. (The sugar/insulin effect Mel mentioned) .

For instance, when I was eating SBD I would have an apple usually every other day. But I would eat it with a healthy fat that helped prevent the insulin surge. Natural peanut butter which is nothing more than ground up peanuts with an apple is very tasty. And quite safe to eat (so long as you aren�t eating way too much).

Bottom line � like I said. Read up on each of these diets and find the one you think you can stick to. Don�t just read what you do in the early stages of the eating plan. Look at the overall plan, the foods you will be able to eat, etc before you decide your path.

The best plan you can pick � is the one you will stick to.

FYI: Dark Chocolate is allowed in Stage 2 of SBD in moderation. Way less sugar.

FYI #2: I really like dark chocolate. But then I like bitters too (a good hoppie pale ale is right up my alley ... ugh that isn't good dietary commentary ... sorry).

Ok, that sounds better. I'll read about it.
Thanks for all the help and suport. Maybe it's what was missing before to help me get it done.

You are asking the wrong questions. The question should be: is this healthy for me and can I lose weight and maintain it eating these foods? You can eat low GI fruits AFTER you have lost the weight if ou stick to the berry groups and eat it rarely. I personally never eat fruit because it sets up sugar cravings and jacks with my blood sugar.

You should never have chocolate again unless it is sugar free. I suspect you have a chocolate addiction, so that is more reason you should avoid it. When you don't have sugar, you don't miss it.

Yogurt is ok AFTER you have lost the weight if it is sugar free. All of these foods, fruit, chocolate, yogurt, make it much harder to lose weight because they spike your blood sugar. When your BS is spiked, it then drops and signals the brain that you are hungry.

Aia, just learn to keep sugar out of your diet forever. Sugar is your enemy. It is unhealthy and will always cause weight gain. When you don't have sugar, you don't miss sugar.

Like I said, I understand about sugar. I'll just have to do it.

Good girl.

I was in your boat - 1000 - 1200 calorie diet (WW style, low fat, lots of fruit, Snackwells snacks, etc...), working out and gaining weight.

I went on Phentrimine, strict calorie reduction, very low carb, and I lost 30 lbs in 2 months. I then went off the diet pills, remained on the low carb diet, and I've dropped 62lbs in a year and kept it off. I'm from a size 18 to a size 10-12.

Starting this week I'm training for a triathalon.

Lindt 95% dark chocolate has 4g of sugar per serving and some Paleo people do eat that. I'm allergic to chocolate. I'm also Insulin resistant and other than some seasonal citrus I don't eat fruit. My body can't process it.

Now that I'm closer to my goal weight I do splurge and eat junk food, but I can go several weeks without eating it and not care.

95%???? Why don't I just take a spoonfull of cocoa? Same thing
You all managed to convince me about this diet. I will start in the morning. Thanks.
And I will give him the letter over the weekend. My guess is he'll say he needs to see I'm serious about the changes. I'll let you know if I was right.

Don't worry about what he says. Just focus on the task at hand.

GOOD LUCK on your new way of eating!!!!!

Thank you!

The point of the letter is to convey to him your unhappiness and to give him a plan to resolve this. You do I understand this, right? This needs to be a 2 way marriage, not a 1 sided one. Your goal is to have a happy marriage where both your needs are met. NOT one where he only meets your needs if his are met perfectly.

How about posting the letter and letting us give you feedback?

Do you have a shopping list and some menus made up for your diet? Sme good snacks would be cheese and beef jerky. A typical day or me looks like this:

Breakfast: 2 string cheese sticks

Lunch: turkey chef salad with cheese and blue cheese dressing, iced tea

Supper: grilled rib eye, green beans and homemade cole slaw

Get as much fat and protein as possible in your meals so you are never hungry. Just eat until satisfied, not stuffed. Getting hungry is what causes failures. The more fat you eat, the greater your metabolism. Add lots of real butter to your vegetables.

Do you like cheesecake? I have an awesome sugar free cheesecake recipe I can share. It is good for desserts and for breakfasts.

ok ML

You can't go mentioning the cheesecake recipe without giving it out. I LOVE cheesecake but the sugar kills me.

Yes, I understand. But because I was never able to stick with a diet he'll probably need to see to believe.
I hope you don't mind, but I don't feel confortable posting the letter here. I can tell you what I plan to say in it. That I'm not happy in our marriage, I know he's not happy as well and I really like for us to do somthing about it. That I know the way I look is important to him and I am on a low carb diet and exercise program to fix this once and for all. That I will be a better companion for him and stop being so sensitive, as I know he likes to be able to tell me everything he does not like without me starting to cry. But I also need him to give me more affection and be more receptive to what I need and like, in bedroom and enywhete else in our marriage. That I think it's important and possible for both of us to be much happier.
What do you think?

Morning will be dificult, some cheese and nuts. Lunch will be some meat with salad, same for the dinner, some eggs sometimes. Sure I'd like that receipe.

Can you enlist his help?? One of the things I told him in one of our honest talks was that my body has changed. I just cannot eat bread or sweets anymore or at least very often at all. But I have no willpower either. I just don't. If I make a cake for the kids and hubby, then I will eat it!! The problem is he is 6 foot and 155 pounds!!! Stress and work keep him thin and he can eat whatever he wants. I cannot. I told him I really needed his help to understand that I couldn't fix things like I used to. (BTW, I lost 17 pounds last fall and have kept it off.) I told him that when I was in my 20's and 30's, I could just take it off with no problem. Not so much anymore. In fact, we went on a camping trip that was a long weekend. He bought oreos and several other no nos which i said was fine for the special trip with the kids. However, I gained 4 pounds on that 4 day weekend. Hubby watched me and he said, "You didn't eat all that much. Two oreos!) But I just REALLY have to limit what I eat. Meat is fine. Veggies are fine. I'll eat all I want of that. But chocolate and bread ( my favorite food group) are very sadly gone. But I had to have HIS help. When he saw what happened that weekend, he was even more supportive. He also tells me how wonderful and hot I look now. ( Admiration is my top need, so that is motivation as well.) What worked for us was seeing that we needed to be a team to do things that would benefit team (insert our last name).

Hope that helps. Losing the weight made a big difference to hubby. He is doing much, much better about meeting my needs in all sorts of different areas. I had to be honest, but then I also had to meet his. ( Keeping a clean house and losing weight were the two things he needed.)

We are off on a date in 30 minutes, so I'll leave you with that!

I will post it tonight when I get home. It is awesome!

He is suportive as my looks are very important to him. He'll do anything I ask of him about that.
Your post is good for my motivation. I actually think me being thin will change him a lot.

Have a nice date!

I understand it might not be comfortable posting the letter but we can be a great help in making sure it is understandable and concise.

Why will mornings be difficult? Do you need some ideas? Eggs are an excellent low carb food so you can eat as many as you want. I love scrambled eggs and bacon for breakfast.

Also, just expect to feel shaky the first week. You will go Into junk food withdrawal and your body will be shifting from glucose metabolism to fat metabolism. Just don't allow yourself to get hungry. Keep plenty of low carb snacks on hand, cheese, almonds, beef jerky, hard boiled eggs.

If you have a kindle, there are lots of great low carb cookbooks on amazon. My favorite is Dana carpenters 500 low carb recipes.

Well, I don't know. I guess I'm just not used to be so open. But it will be exactly what I said, in exactlly that way and that many words, not more. If you can't give me an opinion based on this info I'll try to post the letter. But I prefer not to.

I am not a morning person and for years I've been eating cereal or something light and sweet for breakfast. Just thinking of eggs or cheese or, worse, meat just make me want to screem first thing in the morning. Maybe I'll need to get use to eat a little later, after I really wake up.

I have the kindle, I'll look for the book.

Different people respond to different types of diets. I, like Melodylane, do very well on a low carb diet. In fact, I found I lose weight if I cut out all bread/wheat products of any type, milk products of any type, rarely eat rice (good substitute is Quinoi), eat lots of baked chicken and fish. Natural fruits (i.e., not in syrup) are not a bad thing. In fact, one of the ways I get protein in my diet are by creating what I call "ice cream" with 1/2 c frozen blueberries, 2 c. sliced frozen strawberries, 1/4 c silken tofu and a scoop of whey protein. Blend it all in the blender and it's like soft serve ice cream!

I have lots of friends on low carb who eat fruit every day like BB said. I never eat it because I have blood sugar issues. However, don't eat fruit until you have lost weight and are into maintenance because you need to clean out your glucose store so your body switches to fat metabolism. Eating fruit NOW will greatly impair that shift. You don't need fruit and you need all the help you can get.

Mel...
Did you have to eliminate Diet drinks also? Supposedly they raise your insulin.

Excellent book and informative.

It's on the kindle.

I didn't eliminate diet drinks but I know people who could not lose weight while drinking them. It has been several years but I did look up some studies on that very question and the studies I found at the time said there was no effect on blood sugar. But there has to be something going on. I think I will test on myself tomorrow and see what happens.

Sorry for threadjacking, but how would you go about testing that?

I test my blood sugar all the time because I WAS pre-diabetic. I have a blood sugar testing kit.

So test before and after drinking/eating the food item?

You got it!

How long do I wait before retesting?