Quick run down. About a year ago my wife started talking to someone at work, I found out about it, found emails, and knew they had gone on a date. She lied about it when I confronted her. She ended up confessing to me and she was sorry and that it felt wrong. We decided to work on our marriage and did. I will admit, emotionally I haven't been there for her all the time. It was something we worked on in therapy, things were good and later her grandfather died whom she was very close and therapy stopped. Apparently we had slowly regressed since then. But honestly I have felt things haven�t been all that bad.

Then boom last Friday she told me she wanted me to move out, since then she has been back and forth on whether or not she wants to work on our marriage. This past week I have shown her a side of me, emotionally that she has never seen. We actually went on a date, were intimate twice while I was out of the house for those short few days. We both agreed that something was different about those times we spent together, in a good way. It was torture for me being away from her just those two nights. I felt like things were getting worse so I moved back in something my therapist said was obviously a wise move.

Since moving back in and that time away from her, I have been plan A�ing my butt off. I think I am being a little to clingy at times but I am working on it, showing her not telling her. Today was her therapy session and things did not go well for her. She is questioning everything about us right now. This whole event has been a roller coaster, good days followed by really really bad days.

There was nothing sexually with the OM, pure emotion, she has told me that he has opened her eyes that she could be happy. She tells me this is not because of him and they are not speaking at work. She is not using her cell phone or email like last time and I exposed her twitter account where they have been communicating back and forth. They work in different departments and use work email and IM, which I have zero access to.

Pretty confused on what to do. This Sunday is a running event that they will both be at. I asked my wife if I could attend to support her and she said it would be awkward. My therapist thinks I should respect that decision. I on the other am having second thoughts. I know as long as they are talking, which she says they are not, that we have no chance. She tells me she needs space now. But assures me its not because of him. None of which I believe.

My wife and I are high school sweet hearts, have been together for 11 years, married for 2 years. She says she just wants to be single, since moving back, I have offered her space but that I would not be leaving the house and that we would have to make other accommodations if this was going to be the course of action.

Through this I have remained completely calm as I have dealt with this before any advice on what I should do this Sunday would be great. Thanks a bunch

It should be noted that before I was able to talk to my therapist to plan a course of action. When I moved back in I asked my wife if she would cease all contact with the OM and be willing to work on us. She was unwilling. So I told her that while I respected her decision that if she saw him this weekend that she would be no longer welcome under our roof. It gave her a moment of pause and she left that morning willing to work on it. A couple hours later while she was at work her mind had changed and she told me that I would not demand anything of her, that she needed to be her own person and make her own decisions.

finah, welcome to Marriage Builders, I am sorry you are here.

Your instincts are right about demanding that she end all contact with the OM. Thoughtful requests are not going to do the trick. She will continue to see her OM as long as she is able. Unfortunately, your marriage won't ever be able to recover unless and until she ends all contact.

One of the very most effective weapons we have seen in saving marriages here is to kill the affair by exposing it to everyone. Affairs thrive on secrecy so exposing it is much like bringing in a crowd of onlookers into the crack house to watch the crackheads get high. It ruins the high! It is no fun to get high when everyone is looking. The fantasy is ruined.

Good exposure targets are parents [yours, hers, the OMs] the OM's wife, if any, employer, children, family, friends, the OM's facebook friends. Everyone should know about the affair. While it is no guarantee, we have had affairs killed dead the day they were exposed. At the very least, it will hasten its death.

Is the OM married? If so, do you have his wife's information?

Here is Dr Harley's quote about exposure:

article here

And Dr Harley's radio clip speaking to a betrayed husband who didn't expose his wife's affair: click here

Facebook exposures have been very powerful exposures because they are a collection of the waywards closest friends and family members. We recommend exposing the affair to the OP's fb friends using a sample letter we have developed. Send out the emails via private messages SPACED 60 SECONDS APART SO FB DOESN'T SHUT YOU DOWN. Before you send it out, be sure and change your profile pic to one of you and your wife.

We recommend sending a certified letter to the Director of Human Resources, a key VP and both the affairees bosses at the workplace. It is much harder to carry on the affair when upper management is watching and often serves to pressure one of them to leave. They cannot continue to work together if you want to save your marriage.

And of course you should go to the event this weekend with your wife. To do otherwise is to enable bad behavior. Go there and face the OM. Tell him to buzz off. Pull him aside and tell him hell is coming his way. Dr Harley recommends causing as much trouble in the affair as possible. That [censored] should hear from you each and every time you are aware of contact. Get in his face and let him know you won't be rolling over for a loser.

facebook letter:


Dear friend of Skankyhola,

It is with great regret that I send this letter but I believe all of her friends should be aware that Skanky is having an affair with my husband, Joe. We have been married for 5 years and have 3 heartbroken children. They have been having this affair since October according to the evidence.

I would be happy to provide the evidence to anyone who asks.

I would ask that you use your influence with Skanky to persuade her to leave my husband alone. You should also watch your own husbands around her because she is no friend to marriage.

I would appreciate it if someone would notify her parents and ask them to call me at xxx-www-xxxx.

Thank you, BW

Workplace letter - send certified to 3 key people, ccing them all on the letter:

Developed by Brits Brat, board member and corporate attorney

To Whom It May Concern:

This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.

WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, primarily, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims this situation presents, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.

If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.

Regards,

BS
_________________________

finah, you are getting superior advice from Melody. Dont doubt her directions. Your wife is a text book case of infidelity either EA/PA.
Sorry you are here but to make your M survive this understand this is WAR. You must first kill the A before anything can be done in the M.
Start with the plans as outlined and expose it in a few short hours to all targets.
Shes waffling with this OM in her mind. Destroy the A and she MAY decide to work.

Finah, Sorry you are here. if I can make a few suggestions for you:

1. Among other things, Affairs are about power and control.She wants it and you are giving it to her.

2. Suggestions don't carry weight, didactic statements do.

3. How would you react if a guy walks up and slaps you on the face? Would you crumble and walk away, or would you get in his face and make his life heck? That's what this guy is doing to you when he pursues your wife.

4. Giving the wayward the opportunity to think, is like setting booze down in front of a drunk and asking him if he wants a drink.

5. I would show up at the run and not tell her I was going. Do you know who OM is? I would expose them together at the race (finish line).

6. You are actually in the power position. You tell her how things will go. Tell her she *will* stop immediately. This man may be working hard to convince her to return to the affair (hence her change of heart once she got to work).

Has she cheated before? I suspect she never really broke it off the first time and that what you are experiencing is one continuous affair. I also suspect there has been physical, intimate contact between them. I'd bet money on it.

I'd put (hide) a voice activated recorder in her car under the seat.

Take Melodys advice before it goes physical. Some of us never had that chance. Don't waste it.

Put a hidden GPS on her vehicle ASAP.
BEFORE you do exposure.

Finah,

Also put a VAR voice activated recorder in the car. They are inexpensive and can be found at any radio shack. Many times WW's do most of their calls to OM's from their cars.

Snooping is not spying or in any way negative. You have a right to know what is going on in your marriage. WW is keeping this information from you.

Never tell her about the VAR or GPS. The information you gather is so you can make informed decisions about ending the affair.

Also, don't tell her about this forum. It it your place to vent and strategize.

Cypress

finah,

This is bad advice.

Why would you respect this decision? It is NOT respect it is enabling.

All contact must end.

Stay strong.

DITTO

Here is the message that needs to be sent to the OM:

lol on that video........all great advice I appreciate it all. I really do.

The OM is not married. I have been reluctant to pursue the work place exposure but I will save that as a last ditch effort if I must and if I think its even worth it at this point.

She has no facebook page or twitter page anymore so exposure that way is not possible. I do not have access to the OM facebook or twitter so that is also not possible.

I have exposed it to everyone I know and everyone she knows.

The good/bad thing is she has told me she will break contact with him tomorrow at the race.

I gave her a moment of pause today b/c honestly guys I am fed up with it. I handed her dissolution papers today.

I intercepted a email from him to her last night at 1am. "TOU" = thinking of you.

There are certain things that I value in life, being lied to over and over and the dishonesty that has gone on may be something that I am unwilling to forgive her for.

It still has not hit her yet. It will though. I know the girl, have known her for a long long time. And she will fall hard, will I be there, I don't know at this point.

Still up in the air about tomorrow.

I am 99% sure there has been no physical contact, could I be wrong, for sure. If there has its pointless b/c that will seal the deal for me. No matter how much I care and love her I will not have that.

There has been no phone contact, whatsoever, I pay for the service its under my name I have checked the data and the phone records.

Will keep you updated.

Again thanks for all the advice.

Have you searched for OM's Facebook or Twitter page? Most people have them - I'd be very surprised if he doesn't have one.

Yo do not need to "have access" to it, as in being a friend of his. You only need to find it, and then go through his friends list and identify key people to whom to send a private exposure message.

Please go to our forum Operation Investigate and see this thread for information on how to spy on someone whose friends list is private. See also the threads in that forum on keylogger programmes, GPS recorders and voice recorders.

If you put a keylogger on your WW's PC now, you might find her looking at his Facebook page, and you'll be sorted. Download a keylogger NOW.

A secret, pre-paid affair phone is the standard trick of the active WS. You need to snoop, record and search until you find out what she is using.

twitter is private so is facebook.......though I just found a old friend we happen to have in common.........sent request will see what happens.

I'm a bit of a Facebook idiot, but what does this mean?

Does it mean that OM has an account that you can find, but all the information is private?

Does that allow you to send him a private message?

copy that, doing some digging now. she just called him and emailed him....told me about it.....go figure.

I have the dudes phone number, email, facebook....I can contact him just can't view it.....with the friend request I should be able to view his page b/c we will have mutual friends.

He will not answer my calls, texts, or emails.

Sorry, I was being a bit stupid (again!):

You need to send his FRIENDS an exposure message. You need to look for key friends, like his siblings and parents. Your mutual friend might be able to give you this access.

Then you should go with her. If that is true, which its not, she won't mind you being there. "Getting closure" is code for continued contact. That is all that is happening here.

Finah, is there anything at all you would be willing to do bust up this affair? It seems you can't do anything we suggested so this seems rather hopeless.

Can you not see the OM's FRIENDS? The point is to get a list of all his friends and send them exposure messages. Can you do that?


To her parents? To WHOM was the affair exposed and exactly WHAT were they told?

If you know your wife is NOT on facebook open an account in her name and try to friend him. But do it quick while you know they are out of contact.

When he accepts cause he will copy the friends list to word and start messaging all of them - family type people first from your account with an exposure note. One minute apart so you don't get blocked by the site.

And is there a wife? GF? FIND HER. That saved me.

Why would you do this? Why?!

Your wife asks you to move out of your house, because.....it is easier to carry on her affair with you out of the way. Never leave your house unless ordered to by a police officer or a court order.

If your wife asked you to jump off a cliff, would you do that also?

Finah

How did it go at the run?

Cypress

It�s been awhile since an update but here we go.
���������������
The race I had no control over, I had to work overtime that day and was unable to attend.� I found out she did not end contact with the OM at the race like she said.� No surprise there really.�
�
She left for Wisconsin later that week after the race to visit her parents.� I know for a fact she was there b/c a family friend took her.� I still had access to her phone and email accounts and knew contact with the other man was continuing.� The stuff I was reading was pretty funny to me, talking about oh how we were meant for each other. We are going to take trips after this.� Blah blah blah.� Planning there whole life together before it has even started.�
�
I decided to move out for a couple of reasons.� One I couldn�t take it, it was really making it hard for me to deal with.� And two, I know she can�t afford the house and the bills all by herself, not for long.� I know it has allowed the affair to continue.� But she refused to move out, it�s a joint mortgage, I know she has no where else to go, so there was no way I could physically remove her from our home. To me.� Staying there was only showing her that I was willing to stay by her side no matter what and I don�t want to give her that impression that I am some doormat.� Not sure what else I could have done in that situation.� Staying there in my eyes would have only pushed her farther away.�
�
I intercepted a couple more emails discussing the issue of me moving out with the OM, telling him she was relieved to some degree, but as she left for school that day she sat in the car just crying.
�
It�s amazing how I read a lot of threads on here and the situations are pretty much text book, the emotion, the denial etc etc.
�
She has dragged her feet throughout this entire process.� She wants out of the marriage, wants to sell the house, but has made no steps to do so.� She is going back and forth on whether or not she wants to see a therapist for herself.� One day she was adamant that she was fine and there were no problems and the next day was frantic and needed to talk to someone ASAP.�
�
The last time I saw her was a few days ago, basically told her how I felt about our relationship over the past 11 years, which she told me was all a lie.� LOL.� She told me she just feels differently about me, not sure if she still loves me.� << Sound familiar.
�
�I basically told her I am ending all contact with her and that I had filed papers and that I would see her in court.� She broke down, crying hysterically and I will admit I was upset to at saying good bye.� We kissed she told me she loved me and I left.�
�
Made a huge huge mistake in calling her about an hour or 2 later, telling her that it shouldn�t be this hard and that this was all a mistake.� And she was back to her wayward ways.� Haven�t spoken to her in a couple days now.
�
The girl is just lost.� If it does end up in dissolution or a divorce, I know she will regret it, bet my life on it.� I know how she makes decisions.� By that time it may be too late for us.� I may have moved on with my life.�
�
But she has a way with words.� Making me feel like she is right that I have been this awful guy, when I know it�s not true.�
�
I have exposed it to everyone I know and she knows.� Of course this is making her upset b/c she feels I am making her out to be the bad person.�
�
Everyone that I have talked to about this has told me DON�T EXPOSE IT AT WORK.� When everyone here has told me the exact opposite, should have listened to all of you more.�
�
But I have written a formal email to a contact at their workplace that I am confident will pass the information along.� I will follow up with a phone call if I do not here anything.�
�
My question is how to I deal with that situation.� I am expecting all hell to break loose.� The place where she works out deals with a lot of government/private contracts in the biomedical field, secret clearances, and the whole nine yards.� She is not even allowed to tell me what she does.� I know previously the workplace caught two people having an affair and fired both of them on the spot, regardless of their position held.� I will almost guarantee the OM is fired b/c he works with security and they are not supposed to be involved with the employees.� On top of that she may lose her job all ready b/c of a confrontation she had with another employee awhile back she was pulled out of her group just last week.�
�
To me it seems like a good time to finally man up and spring the workplace exposure.�
�
Appreciate the support
�

That letter should go to at least two persons in her workplace - (1) her boss, and (2) a copy to the HR manager.

I'm not sure moving out was a good idea.

As advised send the exposure letter to her boss cc the HR director and the chairman or CEO. Then standback and wait.

Write the letter today and post it tomorrow do not waste any more time.

Edit** those who advise you not to expose do not have the experience that is found on MarriageBuilders, here the effort is to stop the affair and implement a plan for a viable marriage recovery.

Couple issues with that. Her company doesn't exactly have a public list of email contacts due to the nature of their work. I struggled to find just one. I will search for another tonight though.

Perhaps I will move back in after exposure.

Finah, you might try calling the office and asking for Human Resources. When you are connected, tell them you want to speak to the director so you can report an affair.

What I basically ended up telling my parents and MC. Obviously you tend to value those opinions to those people you are closest.

My opinion is that pretty much everyone is an outsider looking in, giving their opinion on how I should handle this situation. The fact is that those who have dealt with this, at MB and alike, or those that are dealing with this are giving a bit of a different perspective on how to confront the issue and not react.

I was going to follow up with a phone call.

The person I sent the email just happens to be the one she was in a confrontation with. Better or worse I am almost positive they will forward it on to the proper people. They have strict policies and protocol when it comes to any outside/internal issue.

Agree. Those who have successfully dealt with adultery usually will have a valid opinion and those who haven't, don't. All opinions are obviously not equal or even valid.

Is this a publicaly listed company if so the names of the directors should be on the web site. Send a letter to all if you have to.

So on moving back in.

I guess are there any downsides? Obviously she will not be happy, she will probably say I am making it worse, pushing her further away.

Two, when I say I moved out, I moved out, I took everything of mine out.

We have two beds, one is currently at my parents house the other is at our home.

I was thinking about keeping the bed I am using at my parents house, forcing her either to sleep with me, or sleep with dogs on the floor or couch, lol.

No not listed. Again due to the nature of their work in the biomedical field. The testing that goes on with animals they end up receiving a lot of threats, so they go to great lengths to conceal contact info and info about how to reach anyone inside.

If you cannot find the names send two letter addressed to the HR director cc her Boss via registered return receipts, therein request a response if you receive non have a letter drafted by your lawyer and send it though again.

Check to see if the OM works for the company or a hired security company.

Works 4 the company. Like I said they don't mess around there. If they look into what I wrote and they will. Chances are they will be both be gone, no questions. OM is almost for sure done being in the position that he is in and how seriously they take their security there.

Taking ur advice Melody and moving back in today. Sick and tired of letting the WW dictate what I do. I will admit I was pretty down for about week, now I am just mad.

Will remain calm though

Finah,

I do not have the experience of other posters, so take what I say as a voice from the back of the room.

When you move back in WW will do a lot of sniping and snide remarks. Just remember that the affair has nothing to do with you. Its just about her selfish choices. Your right to be angry, but channel the anger to this forum.

She is not who she was before. You have no control over her actions. You can only provide consequences. Your marriage will be very different than before, assuming it survives this. There is a long road to recovery. If there is enough love left for her, you may be able to get her to come back to the marriage. Otherwise, you can feel comfortable choosing dissolution.

Cypress

She was a tad bit snippy. As to be expected. I didnt get mad just told her this was also my house and I needed to get a way for a bit and now I'm back. Then proceeded to tell me that we aren't sleeping in the same bed. lol. There is only one bed here not quite sure how she will force me out of that. Then she left. Either to the OM apartment or her friends house. She mentioned dissolution and I basically told her well no one has started that process yet so.

She got pretty heated. "You have no right to be here. I'm going to call the cops. None of this stuff is yours blah blah" Why are u even here. It's over. I contacted an attorney.

Pretty much the typical stuff u read.

Still denies she is involved with another man. On and on.

Workplace exposure is coming up. Will be interesting to say the least

Good job!!

If I were you I would buy a recorder. It is often a tactic of particularly nasty WWs to accuse the BH of abuse, call the cops, and get him out and the OM into the house.

So how should I be acting towards her. Right now I am just standing my ground but all she wants to do is argue and dictate what I can and can't do in our home.

Her stepdad is the one who advised her to call the police and is guiding her thru this

I have my iPhone on me. Will record our convos if it gets heated again

The veterans of the board will have more specific advice as to how to deal with her, but the recorder is something critical right now.

Buy a recorder as soon as the iPhone takes to long to activate and is not designed for the clarity of recordings you want.

Also don't just record the bad but all contact with her. When she talks about how bad you are talking to her you can play a few good ones.

I hope that made sence.

Yeah makes total sense. Just unsure if I should be trying to meet any of her EN's or a plan a approach now that I am back in the home.

Just be as polite as possible! And if the police show up tell them this is your home and your wife is having an affair and you have no intention of leaving. Don't leave unless FORCED. If they ask you to leave just to keep the peace, tell them thank you but no thanks. Let them know you promise not to cause any trouble and she should promise the same.

Like the others said, be sure and keep your recorder on in case she tries to play "abuse" card and get you removed a via restraining order. And don't think she won't do it either.

K will do guys/gals Thx for the advice

Well I laid down for a bit expecting to see my wife in bed next to me since there is currently only one bed in the home. Nope she went in the other room. Locked the door and is apparently sleeping on the floor with
the dogs.�

Literally like two days ago was sobbing �when I told her I wanted to end all contact for good.�

I don't think this is going to end up good to be honest with all of u. Both of her parents have had failed marriages. And her step dad is coaching her on every little thing. I mean being picky about well we have to have separate food etc.�

Why she would lock the door and threaten to call the police. I have no idea??

I have never really lost my cool, have never been violent or any of that.�

Like I'm the bad guy. I'm the crazy one for wanting to live in my house and sleep with my wife.�

All of this is just to funny. The step dad thinks he is helping but really is only further enabling her WW ways and probably will end up�ultimately destroying her life over it.�

She wants to make it look like you are a monster. She has to justify to herself that you are a monster to make OM look good.

Drama is how it keeps going for her.

True story. Thx for that

Well I got in touch with the lady she had a confrontation with at work. I ended up calling her directly at her work extension. Apparently my email went directly to their spam folder. I also sent an email to her supervisor, which is probably sitting in his spam folder as well. I didn't really feel all that good having to go through someone who she had a confrontation with, but I can't rely on her co workers b/c I am sure they know what is going on to some extent. And like I said before that place is like fort knox having access to their employee contact info is next to impossible.

The lady I spoke with was actually very nice and said she was so sorry that this was happening. I guess she actually isn't such a bad person anyway at least not how my wife made her out to be.

She said she would look into it and contact me with any further info about who I should talk with next.

Also noticed that my wife has contacted a lawyer, they haven't met yet, also keeps on trying to contact At&t to transfer service of her cell phone that I pay for.

Its weird how you have second thoughts about all this. Perhaps I am over playing the affair, or its not that serious, or as she calls it " a nice distraction "

WW's have such a way with words and actions.

Also a side note.

I have installed key loggers on both of our computers, she doesn't know this. Actually did it after I caught her the first time and never ever mentioned it to her.

Also read in another thread about the gps buddy tracker @ bestbuy, will be picking one of those up here in the next couple days.

I will worry about the var in a bit. Right now I know for a fact she is not using her cell phone to contact him and doesn't have another cell phone as of yet. Hence her tireless efforts to call At&t to switch over to a personal plan. All of their contact has been at work and through personal email, its how they message back and forth.

She is being careful, b/c she knows I am on to her. Deleting messages from her email account as soon as she reads them.

I am going to try to sneak in a forward email address into her account disguised as a imap iphone server account. I have tried it on my account and it leaves no traces unless you knew what you were looking for.

You have lost a day, write the exposure letters tonight and send them recorded mail, that way they should be there by Wednesday.

I talked with the contact I had at her workplace, the email has been forwarded to legal, to HR and a supervisor. Due to the nature of their work they cannot give me any contact info for their company personnel. She assured me that this would be handled and dealt with care and confidentiality. So I trust her as this person is not friends with my wife. And honestly has every reason to follow through b/c of the confrontation my wife caused with her.

Workplace exposure was the only place I haven't exposed it.

The only person left was her real father and I have emailed him just now. But again I don't expect her father to hold much weight with her or influence b/c they don't exactly speak to each other very often.

Her family and friends are protecting her very well and are pretty much buying everything she has told them or not told them.

I will continue to gather evidence and deal with it accordingly, but her parents are pretty much worthless to speak to now b/c they are standing by her no matter what.

I am the ultimate bad person in all of this. Probably the only people that agree with me are my parents, my friends, my therapist and all of you

Have you told her family the TRUTH yourself? Or has she been allowed to spin this story with no challenge?

Melody I just learned something about two minutes ago when I emailed her real father and told him.

My wife's mother had an affair at work and ended up marrying him. My wife's current step dad who is the one advising her on this.

So really this all kind of makes sense now. Why her parents don't see it as a big deal.

The fact is their marriage is far from perfect they abandoned their only son and really to think that she will end up and marry the OM is almost laughable.

This just gets better and better. I don't even know if my wife knows about this.

Talked to her real father some more. Interesting stuff. Is genuinely a good person I feel. Ended up on the wrong side of a affair and played door mat. Sad really to see how it has effected my wife and her brother who is manic depressive.

Also talked to the WW a bit this morning. I did most of the talking but atleast she was responsive. Just brought up my day asked about her day and my concern for her getting good sleep and having a wonderful day. It really drives them crazy when ur super husband.

Well some how she found out about work. To say she went ballistic would be a understatement. I'm going to sue you. This is retaliation. I am going to garnish your wages. She pretty much said it all. Wants me out of the house immediately. Don't know if I can stay there with her and listen to what all she has to say. One minute it's both of our faults than the next it's all my fault. The OM and I are just friends. Hopefully in time this will pass. Hard not to argue with her when all this is going on.

Definitely don't leave the house.


Just friends? Seriously? THAT LINE?! That's got to be one of the dumbest wayward lines ever...

I'm going to sue you
Other person is going to sue you.

Those are common responses to try to control you. (I heard them and said "Cool. I'll sue other person back!"

I hope you didn't laugh, right? Such drama!

My WH had the exact same words about exposure.

"You are telling lies to my soldiers, my grandmother, OW's family, and my friends. You violated my trust by gaining access to my email and facebook and then went on to mislead everyone by what you found. OW and I are friends. You always hate my friends. She and I can have a relationship. Why on earth would I come back to you when you are so vengeful and out to destroy me? You are doing nothing but hurting me. What man would want you? Stop blaming OW for your failures. OW did not end our marriage. How could you tell her family and friends?

You say you love me and want to save our family, but your actions say you just want to destroy me. I am so hurt by you.

TOUGH, THIS MARRIAGE IS OVER!!!"

WH exacts words from his email to me after exposure. They all say the same stuff.

I laughed a bit.� But honestly the stuff she was saying hurt.� Hard to keep your composure during times like that.� Perhaps I won't leave, atleast stick it out and see how it unfolds.� She seems pretty determined to go through with either divorce or dissolution.� Does she have any grounds on the retaliation thing?� I guess the way I understand it is that we are not currently in the divorce or dissolution process, and what was said in the email was no lie.��Don't know if she could ever prove if it came from me or not.� I told her that if nothing was going on and you are just friends like you say�then there is nothing to worry about.� She came back with "people will spread rumors" "my job was all ready on the cutting block".��"You're a horrible person"� "How could you stoop this low".� LOL You mean stoop low like�sneaking around talking to another man and going over to his apt.� Her response�"I can talk to anyone I want, we are just friends and he is someone I like"� << Okay.� "This is not b/c of him"� "It's me, I am unhappy"� "I decided this was over when I asked you to move out"� " I have been unhappy for awhile"� "The OM opened my eyes" "You are trying to make me miserable"
�
Goes on and on.� Honestly don't know if the girl is even worth it anymore.
�

Fog Babble at its finest. Mine also said the exact same thing.

Contact with OM is what is keeping her at this stage. You have to decide if you want to Plan A some more or go into Plan B.

It will be up to you and what you want for your marriage. She is typical wayward at the moment. Everything out of her mouth is insanity and you cannot believe one bit of it.

itistoughlove-
�
It truly is entertaining to read that every person say's and does the same thing, but claims.....OH�NO its not b/c of him or her.� Just friends.� Yeah at this stage.� Now she knows about the workplace exposure and that her job may be on the line it may be best that I leave and plan B.� And I guess just ride it out.� I honestly don't think me being in the home, showing her that I still care will do much of anything except lead to argument after argument, like it has.� She has been confrontational and she will leave the home no matter what if she wants to see OM.� Again I could choose to stay but she will just sit there and try and bait me for an argument to reaffirm her own justification.� I really don't want to be in a enviroment like that.� I guess at some point you have to question is it even worth it.� Some things are just better left unsaid and move on and see if a connection can be made down a different path or different time.�
�
We met in HS, haven't really dated anyone else, so I can understand to a point as to why she is questioning everything.� I think she realizes to some extent that it was wrong.� As she calls it " I only wanted to protect you, no one wants to think they are being left for someone else"� But I know she doesn't understand the damage it has caused.�
�
She isn't herself and that is not the person I want to see in my life, atleast for now.�
�
I have exposed every where I can so it just needs time to sit and for me to take some time for myself and not worry about a person who is so set on a destructive path.�

You should have ensured that the e-mail clearly indicated that it came from you. Exposure in the MB sense does not mean anonymous exposure.

And if by "retaliation", you mean legal recourse, then if what was said in the e-mail was true, there are no grounds for such. In fact, you should welcome any such "retaliation" attempts - more avenues for exposure .

You could have said she could hvae protected you better by not catting around with the OM.



She's an active WW. Few few men would want an active WW in their lives. The actions you're taking now may stop her from choosing to be an active WW.

Oh she knows it came from me. And yes I meant legal. But I kept the email short and sweet, just told the truth. Hence why she was pissed. lol

Let's hope so. But I am preparing for the worst. Really the only thing that could possibly wake her up would be hitting rock bottom. Lost job. Lost house. Lost integrity. Lost husband.

There is no legal cause of action in any state I am aware of for "retaliation" of this type - it it were really retaliation and not a genuine effort to save your marriage using tried and true methods and advice of a nationally renowned PhD. (There are causes of action for retaliation in the employment discrimination context, but that's not what you have here).

Also, in order to have a cause of action for defamation, she would first have to show the statments you made were false and you knew they were false when you made them. Truth is a defense to a defamation action.

I can assure you, I have yet to find a legal cause of action a WS can bring against a BS for exposing the A.

My WH's AP is also threatening stuff. I have so much evidence.

Finah my WH is giving up two homes, his children, his wife, & ruined his military career for this woman.

I cannot make any sense out of his behavior. Take care of you and remember the MB plan is good. It will get you recovered and healthy.

Tough~

Yeah that's what I thought to be true. Thank you for the clarification

I feel for you. It is crazy. The institution of marriage is just not what it used to be. We married our spouses b/c we loved them and b/c they loved us. It is a terrible thing to go through and really a terrible thing to watch. To watch a person so blinded by infatuation that they are willing to ruin their career, their family, and ultimately us, is truly sad. I know we are hurting as BS, but really I feel bad and sorry for the people who have thrown their entire life away. They will never be able to learn true happiness, or perhaps even true love and devotion until that fog is lifted away and by then, it's may be too late for them.

The one glaring ray of hope that I constantly remind myself of, is that no matter what happens, we as BS will come out of this as better people, stronger people and more compassionate and loving people. That is never a bad thing.

"The one glaring ray of hope that I constantly remind myself of, is that no matter what happens, we as BS will come out of this as better people, stronger people and more compassionate and loving people. That is never a bad thing."

That's admirable actually.

^^ Thank u

Tomorrow morning I am going to drop a Facebook bomb on the OM friends and contacts. I am sure that will cause quite the stir. Shaking the bee hive up. Keep them on their toes.

Make sure you keep 60 seconds between messages or FB might block you from messaging for a while.

^^ will do thx

Something from another thread caught my attention that�Dr. Harley suggested for one person�to go�dark/plan B.� And expose.� Thus with the BS out of the picture they only had each other to love bust over the exposure.�
�
Thought that was kind of interesting, think I will use some of the momentum from the workplace exposure and start the FB exposing this morning.�

Finah before you start fb exposure copy and paste the OM friends list onto a word document first. There is every chance that once you start sending the messages that he may block you off his fb page so you won't be able to see the friends list. If that happens you will have a list in word document where you have their name and photo so you will be able to search for them independently of his fb page. Good luck

one step ahead of ya....printed it off as a pdf file. thx though

WW has retained a lawyer....whether thats for divorce or dissolution......guess I will find out.

Left a note for me at the house....not sure what to make of it....I was hoping to see nothing. It's funny b/c she never tried to talk to me about what was going on, its always initiated by me. No emails, no notes, no nothing until now.

What she wrote below:

You can have all the DVD's and the pictures if you want them. Please let me know if there is anything big that you want (ie table). We can discuss anything and try to agree so we are both satisfied. Here are 2 forms that need to be filled out. I am filling out the same forms too. They are the same forms for a dissolution or a divorce. I would like to do a dissolution & just work together on the things we are splitting. I think it would be easier on us both. But please let me know if your not going to show up b/c this won't work if you are not there too. I am meeting w/ my attorney this Wednesday and if it's possible to have the forms completed by then. I can come pick them up if you need just let me know.

What do you want to do about the dogs? Do you want to keep them part of the time or just on weekends, every other week? Do you want one & I will keep the other? I just feel like they are your dogs too & I want to make sure it's fair & you get a say in it too. They will prob. have to stay at my parents house while the house is on the market unless you can watch them. I won't be able to come home & get them every time someone wants to see the house.

I know you won't believe me but I do care for you and I want the best for you. I don't want anything bad to come your way and I want you to be happy. I believe this will help us grow stronger and learn a lot of things about ourselves. Even though this is a bad situation and hard on us both, try to see the positive and good that will follow. Ask yourself, where do I see myself 1 yr, 3yrs, 5yrs from now and work on the steps needed to get there. I hope we can both grow and mature from this. I just want you to know that it was never my intent to hurt you or cause you pain and if I could make it all go away, I would. I wish that you would stop trying to bring pain & hurt my way. Please stop harassing my friends, family & co-workers. This is between us, not them. I do not want to hurt you and I wish you would do the same.

I too believe our paths will cross once more, and we will see each other again. I don't want to hate you and don't want to end things on a bad note. I would like to remember the good times we had together these past 11 yrs and not all the drama and hateful words and treatment we have done this last month.

Like I said all ready, there are a lot of things in my life that I regret, but I wouldn't trade those 11 years for anything. We have had our ups & downs, good times & bad and b/c of you, it has made the person that I am today.

Finah,

Sounds like she is done. Not sure more exposure will change anything at this point. Are you done?

Cypress

finah,

I hate how she left you a note ... couldn't even look you in the eye and say what she had to say. I hate how the note paints herself as the good guy. She is so textbook.

I am angry for you.

I love and admire your outlook. Hold on to that.

You already ARE a better and stronger person !! She is still back at square one ... no make that negative 1 million.

Couldn't tell ya to be honest. I had a good weekend w/o her, was back with a lot of my old friends. And I walked back into our home to that. I know for sure I can move on. She is just all I know....so would I take her back ....yeah probably, will I wait for it? No way.




It is text book. Again BS can actually move forward, while all the WS swear up and down they are moving forward when in all reality their moving backwards in life.

I have enough anger to go around.......trust me. It doesn't surprise me though she left a note, she can't even tell me the truth to my face. Will be interesting when we show up to the courthouse to finalize everything.

Any advantages or disadvantages for trumping her dissolution request and for me to file for divorce?

Finah,

I'm not sure what the legal difference is between dissolution and divorce. I'm assuming dissolution is some form of legal separation.

The only advantage I can see is for your self esteem, self worth. Filing for divorce is a roll of the dice. She may realize how dire the situation is and end the affair, or she will simply agree to it and sign the papers.

Cypress

It is my understanding that a "Dissolution" is less adversarial in that the parties are working together towards negotiating and agreeing to the terms to end their marriage. A "Divorce" is more adversarial and provides some additional protections that you can't get in a "Dissolution" such as temporary orders, forcing disclosure of facts through the discovery process, etc. In other words, a divorce has more legal oomph behind the process of ending a marriage.

^^ that is correct......I guess either way......really doesn't matter.

Well things have taken a strange turn, well I think so at least
�
My wife�has been pretty non responsive to me for about two weeks, we would talk here and there, but never really accomplished anything.
�
I guess it started to change when I showed up at the house to take the dogs on a in the morning.� She didn't have to come and talk to me but she did, just chit chat nothing really relevant to the situation.� I was doing my best to be nice no matter the situation.�� I guess I have been doing a little bit of both plan a/b.� Keeping my distance but still showing her that I care.
�
Probably not the best thing to do.
�
She spent this past weekend with OM, staying at his place (friday night and saturday night).� We have two lovely dogs.� Long story short I knew where she was and I took the dogs w/ me on (friday night).� She has been lagging on paper work, bills, house maintenance, everything, she just doesn't have the time or the�money to juggle everything.�
�
I was over at our house that Sunday to wash my car and she came out to do some yard work and she ended up breaking down, realizing she has way too much on her plate.� I consoled her, probably shouldn't have, but it's hard not to when someone you love is hurting.�
�
Somehow we ended up in bed together and I left shortly after.� She called me about the dogs and I said she could have them for a few days.� She took that night and again I found them monday afternoon in the house while she was out with OM, all day.�
�
I was pretty hot about this and literally I just took the dogs again about 3 hours ago.�
�
We ended up having a long discussion on the phone she was as honest as should could be, I know I am not getting the whole story.� But some of the fog may be lifting temporarily.�
�
She told me she wasn't sure about what she was doing.� She doesn't want to hurt either one of us.�She's not sure if she wants to end the M.� Told me it was easy when I wasn't there but that its hard seeing me b/c she still has feelings for me.� Maybe we should just separate.� Which I replied we all ready were.� Blah blah I am sure everyone can fill in the blanks.
�
Basically told her that she needed to be honest w/ me and OM.� OM probably thinks clearly he has won, but that's not the case.� OM doesn't know about our Sunday together and that she needed to tell him.� The whole point was that if you really care about OM and want that relationship to work you can't go on lying to him b/c you have seen what it has done to US.�
�
I think its becoming quite evident to her that the relationship w/ the OM won't survive the lies and drama.� It won't be able to survive if she is still sleeping with me or has feelings for me.�
�
So I guess where do I go from here?
�
I am hoping to convince her to do a phone consult with the Harley's or someone else even if its by herself.�
�
I should probably go to plan A or continue what I have been doing w/ her, letting her know I still care.� I am not quite sure if I should be paying any of the bills or her bills knowing she can't afford them.�
�
They also planned a trip together this upcoming weekend, not sure if I should give her a ultimatum on that.�
�
Need some obvious help I guess.

Are you in Plan A? When do you plan to go into Plan B?

The affair has been exposed?

Sorry, I am on only for a little while longer tonight, and I don't know how long I will be on tomorrow, so I am making it quick.

You can't be in Plan A and Plan B at the same time. There is no half and half here.

You shouldn't give her ultimatums unless you plan to follow through with them. You should demand that she end her affair, and you can let her know that you won't accept a marriage where she is having an affair.

How long have you been at Plan A? How is your LB? If you still have enough left, I would say that you should Plan A a while longer(only UP TO 6 months), and get everything ready for Plan B. Plan A is to be done without expectations and with knowing that the affair continues. A BH is advised to stay in Plan A longer than women because the H should be chasing the W.

In short, I suggest that you Plan A and prepare for Plan B

I'd say that you've done a good job playing the role of a "fallback guy" for your WW (a great way to expose yourself to multiple As on her part if your M continues), and exposing yourself to any STDs the OM might have passed on to your WW.

If that was your intent, then you've done well.

If your intent however is to RECOVER your M, then you have done poorly.

PLEASE read up and execute a proper Plan A or Plan B if you want to recover your M. Your Plan should include exposure, to basically bust up the A.


Alternatively, if you don't want to recover your M, file for D and stop wasting your time in a relationship that you are no longer interested in.

If you are wondering why your WW is acting like this I'll help you - it's because she is doing what all waywards try to do: TO KEEP YOU BOTH AS LONG AS SHE CAN.

This quoted nonsense up there is created for one sole purpose - by giving you false hope to keep you in the loop.

Believe me, I was there. I too had sex with my WW. It did accomplish NOTHING.


Do you really think that being an OM itself in their relationship somehow shows "caring"?

Scotland-� I have been plan A'ing for about a month I would say.� Affair has been exposed to everyone.� I only say plan B b/c I am out of the home.� Earlier it was decided that I needed to get out of the house to get myself "right" and deal with what was coming.� And really that helped me, b/c it showed me that I could move on.� Make no mistake I want us to work on the M.� But the verbal abuse I was taking when I moved back in previously was too much.�
�
ManinMotion-� Exactly my thoughts after I reread my own post.� lol.� Not a good situation to be in.� Yes I want to recover, so I will stick with plan A.� And eventually work my way back into the home asap.
�
Mr_Recon6mo-� Appreciate the insight.� Again when this happened I was confused b/c she was so gun ho on leaving me.�
�
I appreciate all the insight.�

I skimmed through your last posts.

- how did the workplace exposure end?
- did you expose OM in Facebook?

Not sure how it ended. It was forwarded on. Nothing has taken place yet of now. Her job is still in limbo though.

Facebook exposure happened. But didn't ward anything off. OM family and friends all know about what is going on.

Then it's probably time to move to a proper Plan B.



Who decided this? "It was decided" suggests that someone made that decision for you.

Moving out of your own home is not a good way to do a Plan A.

How do you know this?

How do you know that HR in her company actually saw your exposure letter?



It may be time to re-expose, this time through different channels to ensure that it does get to the right persons in her office.

Oh good grief - you've only been M'd for two years, and all of this is happening already?

Were you living together prior to being M'd?

You may want to seriously consider if you really should remain M'd to someone who has broken her vows only two years after making them. Scratch that - it took her only one year to break them, right?

I decided to.


The person I spoke assured me it was forwarded on and I know it was received by her Supervisor b/c my WW told me her supervisor knew of the issue. Regardless that place is fort knox, getting info is next to impossible, but I can try actually mailing a copy addressed to HR.

Will do.


We have been living together for about 9 years.

give or take......a little over a year, I'd have to look to be exact.

I don't expect anyone to know or really understand why people love each other, regardless of the dumb stuff they do, whether its 1 year, 10 years or 6 mos into the M, vows were broken. Is it worrisome that it was so quick, you bet. Is she all to blame, not entirely.

I am still a young guy. Very handsome I might add If I still value something I will fight for it.

She is being really receptive right now, so if you think its best to plan B, then I shall.

Unfortunately, the statistics for Ms surviving when the couple previously lived together aren't all that great.



You are 50% responsible for the state of your M. However, she is 100% responsible for breaking her vows. Don't you DARE let her, indirectly or otherwise, try to transfer any of that blame to you, y'hear, or she will do so in a heartbeat and blame YOU for her bad choices!



You either Plan A, or Plan B, and Plan B should only be done after you'd done a good Plan A. Taking parts from both and trying to create your own plan is going to further reduce your chances of recovering your M.

Finah,

Can you give us an update on your situation?

Cypress

No problem, it's been awhile.

Personally I feel like I have learned a lot about who am I for one. IC has done wonders for me when I finally found a truly competent counselor. I blamed myself for a lot it. My IC has revealed a lot about what my WW has done to me which really put me at ease on this whole stitch.

A lot of my time is focused on the dogs and I. Running them, working out, going out with friends, reconnecting with the world.

Like most people I think early on I expected way to much too fast. I expected her to come around faster. I would say in mid August I stepped back and really looked at my last 2 encounters with my WW as I was pretty dark, not a total plan B, but if she would reach out I would bite. I looked at those encounters and while they were all positive and her and I spent about 8 hrs talking, the situation, her mindset and POSOM, she was gone further than I had ever seen her.

I guess it really hit home on our last encounter over a month ago. Her and I hugged and I felt........nothing, no shared connection b/w us. It took me awhile to process that.

But it finally allowed me to let go, to really accept the idea that she may never come back, she may never be the W I want in my life ever again.

I won't go into specifics about what WW and POSOM are up to, b/c frankly it just doesn't matter.

So where am I now?

Focusing on myself and still doing a lot of reading. I am not lifting a finger on any D process or dissolution until I feel I am ready and capable to move on with my life and totally leave her behind.

My WW, god bless her, does not listen to a word I say, I tell her not to contact me, she contacts me, I go all FU on her, she says two words, then contacts me again to thank me for something that had nothing to do with her and wants to inquire about how the dogs and I are doing.

She doesn't get it. She may never. Truly I feel bad for her, she is a lost soul. I fully expect not to save my M. And really the only chance that it may recover is when I finally drop the rope and go forward with some sort of D.

Though by then, I think I will be done, she may be the person I want in the physical form, but emotionally she has too much maturing to do, too much to catch up on.

I'll update with more of my thoughts as I move forward.

I'm sorry I didn't see this thread back a few months ago. This still may be useful to you now, if you think you want to recover your marriage.




You can have all the DVD's and the pictures if you want them. Please let me know if there is anything big that you want (ie table). We can discuss anything and try to agree so we are both satisfied. Here are 2 forms that need to be filled out. I am filling out the same forms too. They are the same forms for a dissolution or a divorce. I would like to do a dissolution & just work together on the things we are splitting. I think it would be easier on us both. But please let me know if your not going to show up b/c this won't work if you are not there too. I am meeting w/ my attorney this Wednesday and if it's possible to have the forms completed by then. I can come pick them up if you need just let me know.
Because she began this paragraph talking about minutia (the DVDs, it was very easy to predict that she had no intention of carrying out the rest of the deal - the dissolution. Everything in this paragraph tells you that she is on the fence about a divorce from you. Look at the first sentence. It begins with this strong statement about how you can have the dads...very directive. Then it all falls apart! Everything after that is COMPROMISING with you. She gives YOU the power...she gives you a set of paperwork and asks YOU to do the filing...she hands it all over to you to do. Because

she does not plan to do it herself


because she had NOT made up her mind to do it.



What do you want to do about the dogs? Do you want to keep them part of the time or just on weekends, every other week? Here is the string that keeps you attached. She works the cake-eating right into the mix. She already knows she will still need you in her life, and already knows she cannot leg go. The dogs are not on the leash. YOU ARE.
Do you want one & I will keep the other? I just feel like they are your dogs too & I want to make sure it's fair & you get a say in it too. It is interesting, isn't it, that she "allows" you a say in this...They will prob. have to stay at my parents house while the house is on the market unless you can watch them. I won't be able to come home & get them every time someone wants to see the house.

I know you won't believe me but I do care for you and I want the best for you. I don't want anything bad to come your way and I want you to be happy. I believe this will help us grow stronger and learn a lot of things about ourselves.This is a statement against her own interest. She is very fearful in this statement, and it comes through. The last sentence is an oxymoron - there is no way that the affair can make "US" grow stronger, and make each of you learn about yourself individually - because it destroys the US if she stays with the OM. That is the fear that comes through by stating it the way she has, she states the conflict directly in this last sentence, unknowingly. Isn't language fun?

Even though this is a bad situation and hard on us both, try to see the positive and good that will follow. Gosh, she does this a lot, doesn't she?Ask yourself, where do I see myself 1 yr, 3yrs, 5yrs from now and work on the steps needed to get there.Capitalize on this!!!!! She has asked YOU this question. Now, ask it back to her. Bring this note up to her, and ASK HER the same question. Tell her what you see in the future: a marriage of her dreams...with you...using the MB plan (don't tell her it is the MB plan). Ask her if that would be something she could find interesting, with you.

I hope we can both grow and mature from this. I just want you to know that it was never my intent to hurt you or cause you pain and if I could make it all go away, I would. This is an odd statement out. It is stuck in here, and if I were a betting person, I would say it constitutes what I refer to as "overflow". She was writing, and was on a roll. She had her mind on a target for you, and wanted to say certain things, only THIS was what came out. It was not the intent of the whole message to you, but an aside. The interesting thing with this is it is truthful, it represents a recurring thought with her, and it also reveals a sense of loss of control with her. She really did feel like she could not control herself at the time. FWIW.

I wish that you would stop trying to bring pain & hurt my way. Please stop harassing my friends, family & co-workers. This is between us, not them. I do not want to hurt you and I wish you would do the same. Exposure hurts. Don't do this. So, my advice to you is to KEEP LETTING OTHER PEOPLE KNOW SHE IS CONTINUING HER AFFAIR!!!!!!!! Even though it might be "old news" to you, this bugs her to no end. She does not like having the scarlet letter.

I too believe our paths will cross once more, and we will see each other again. I don't want to hate you and don't want to end things on a bad note. I would like to remember the good times we had together these past 11 yrs and not all the drama and hateful words and treatment we have done this last month.She doesn't like the conflict. I have to comment that it would not be there except for the affair.......itty boo.

Like I said all ready, there are a lot of things in my life that I regret, but I wouldn't trade those 11 years for anything. We have had our ups & downs, good times & bad and b/c of you, it has made the person that I am today. She went here for a reason. She is telling you that you have strength. This letter is a kind of request for that strength. She reveals that she is out of control; she tells you that you have the power; she GIVES you the power. She reveals the conflict in her own mind.


Since this time, she has returned to you and indicated that she still doesn't even know what she is doing.


You do have a chance to recover this marriage if you want it.


The choice is up to you. I believe her affair could be devastated with a very strong volley of Plan B - total and complete cut off of all contact, including dog leashing activities.

Write your plan B letter. Make it a very very very strong LOVE LETTER. Let her know that YOU are the better choice of man, that you are a strong man, that the marriage could be a good one.

IF you want her back, that is. Otherwise, walk in peace.


SB

SB I appreciate your insight, that was great. Your breakdown and the sentement of her letter has given me some things to think about.

I'll post more later after I have a chance to digest those thoughts

Well an interesting turn in events and honestly not quite sure what to make of it. Kind of weird that SB posted that breakdown given this change of events.

I had to meet w/ my WW yesterday to give her one of our dogs b/c they had been fighting each other the past week as it got pretty serious on a few occasions.

I fully expected to see my WW when I showed up, but I didn't I actually saw my W. It was surreal.

But I took it all in, I didn't get all mushy eye or fall head over heels for her.

I stayed strong and listened while she crumbled. And that was so important IMO, for her to see me as a strong confident man. In control of my own feelings and thoughts.
She was quite surprised on that front. She saw real change in me and she saw where she was.......lost and spinning out of control. A depressive mess in some aspects.
I am taking it very very very and still very slow at this point.

She didn't want to let go of me or for me to leave, but I left.

To me it's all just words at this point.
She has expressed that she wants to go to IC and MC with me this week. She knows she has to end it with POSOM, but she needs help and guidance through it.

I assure you I will not allow cake eating through this process, she doesn't get to be with me as long as POSOM is there.

A couple side notes.

Going dark does work. She said she constantly thought about me, she wondered if I ever thought about her. She was waiting for me to reach out even though she seemed so cold when she reached out to me. She knows what she is doing is wrong, but can't stop for obvious reasons.

I do have this weird feeling POSOM is trying to get her pregnant.

I think she is in for a real surprise if she decides to end it w/ him. I think he will go crazy. He is possessive in all aspects and I do kind of fear for her safety. She says he has talked about marriage, growing old together, children....blah blah blah, trying to push the relationship as fast as he could, which has really spooked her in some aspect.

It will be something that I have to watch very carefully.

She needs to leave her place of employment immediately, she is the breadwinner so my salary alone will not be able to cover the house and cars. I can cover one, but not the other.

If it were up to me I'd let the house go into foreclosure.
Kind of in a pickle in that area.

1. We will never be able to fully recover unless she leaves her job

2. I can't cover the mortgage and our vehicles, we need her salary, so she needs a new job ASAP.

3. Our home is up for sale, a few bites here and there, but nothing serious, we'd both like a fresh start somewhere new.

I'll update as my thoughts unravel. We haven't entered any sort of recovery, but we may be on that path, again just words at this moment, but I am still protecting myself and staying dark.

And this children is why you don't have affairs, especially @ work, its a mess.

Thoughts?

It's had some time to sink in for a couple days.
�
I don't think she will show up to MC, just a hunch, I think she has dug her heels back in.� I expected it.� I am sure if I showed up at the house she would come w/ me, but I don't think that is a good idea, I want her to make that move, not I.
�
I think having one of the dogs around has lifted her spirits a bit.� She told me the day we met�she just sits and cries all the time.� My mother reached out to her with out my knowledge and WW said she missed her (my mother) very much.� That didn't surprise me.
�
My WW will not really communicate with me thru TM or email, if she does its short, non emotional.� I talk to her in person, she just melts.� My WW said we just "have this connection" she can't explain it, nor can I, but she said she doesn't feel it with POSOM.� <<oh aren't I lucky lol, he must be doing something right.
�
POSOM freaks every time my WW and I have contact, she basically told POSOM in not so many words that she is just drawn to me.� He is wondering what is taking so long on the D process.
�
Contact has been�pretty dark now for a bit over 2-3 months considering this latest debacle.
�
I had set a goal of�8 weeks absolutely NC, I broke at a lil over 4 weeks, I think she was very close to breaking and I finally bit on an email she sent, basically just affirming my position on where I stood in the M, so not a huge setback in my mind.� I was strong in that email.
�
I think for now its best if I try to reestablish that original goal of NC.
�
I don't think she has any intention of filing D or if she does I don't think she will follow thru.
�
She is a lost lost puppy dog.� She claims to have hit rock bottom, I lol'd inside, she is close to the bottom but still far from rock bottom.� I know what rock bottom feels like and it isn't�pretty.� She has NOT ONE PERSON who is strong and will listen to her except for my mother and I.� Her family is an absolute joke.� She doesn't have any real close friends.
�
To me I think its only a matter of time.� I guess do I really want to try and save this?� I don't know, I think I do, I know I haven't given up.
�
Darkness here I come.

Tell your mother to go dark as well. Your WW is using your mom as a conduit to connect to your whereabouts and how you are doing. She is getting a fix of you via your mom.

Cut that off, today. Tell your mother the MB plan, and explain how this can work for YOU. Tell her that the plan works, it must be dark. Tell her that it is very important, so that you do not lose your love for WW. It is the only way that your WW can possibly recover, and the only way you can possibly come out of this with your love for WW intact. STOP CONTACTING HER.

YOU control whether or not the WW uses the intermediary. It is NOT up to your WW to make that choice. Change your email and phone number, or block her. Explain this again if you must, in FIVE WORDS OR LESS. You can say in one email:


Emails go through IM only.
Contact me through IM only.
No phone calls please.


Got it?

Plan B means you do NOT reply to your WW. When you reply by not going through the IM, YOU break Plan B. The only way to train her is for YOU to control your own behavior - so YOU must use the intermediary. Period.



The darker you remain, the more she has to rely on POSOM to meet all of her needs.


She has not had to do that yet, because YOU are not yet dark.


Be dark.


SB

SB nailed it. It seems to me that your Plan B has not been dark enough... more like following a lunar cycle where your wife waits for you or your mother to act as the moon and give her light. You need to go PITCH DARK... with the only access to light being that laid out to her in the Plan B letter.

Don't settle for less.

Plan B in place.

As I suspected she didn't show up to MC.

What a change in events, she has swung from one end to the spectrum to the complete other in 1 day.

Sunday she wanted to end it w/ OM and commit.

Monday she filed D.

I don't think she will go through w/ it, but I am prepared.

She told me " I made her do it " Still couldn't say good bye to me or let go.

WW never cease to amaze me.

I'll add more later thx everyone

Hmmm, you held a gun to her head as she completed the papers huh? Another one for the craziest things out of a wayward's mouth.

Good for you on resuming Plan B. Now stay dark...

LOL yup I made her do it. Hard really not to laugh at some of the things she says, some of it does sting though.

Should be an interesting next couple of months. Divorce or not IMO she will slowly fall apart again and probably end up lower than where she was

It's crazy to see. I mean I'm not crazy I know I love her, I'm rational. Her, she is in love with OM, but still so attached to me and I barely give her anything.

Going dark for those 4 weeks brought this all on, now I just need to stay there until she ends it with OM, won't be easy for me.

Kind of exciting now. Divorce in the picture, I know darkness works. I'll keep u all updated thx for all the replies SB and Caracal

I just re-read this, but it's exactly what has been happening. We keep on saving her in a sense everytime she pokes her head out.

Ah the fog... it allows the wayward to excuse themselves from any responsibility or wrongdoing... it is all BS's fault!

I doubt it finah... she thinks she is in love with another man, but really she is in love with the feelings OM gives by meeting certain EN's. My WH has abandoned me for OW who he had known two months at work... two months is not enough time to establish true, meaningful, lifelong love. Well, not IMO anyway.


You're right, being totally dark is not easy. And it does seem to have some impact on your WW. Just remember not to peek to see what the impact is. It is no longer your problem. Even though you may burn with curiousity (as I have and still do), remember what curiosity did to the cat.

Something I am still getting my head around in Plan B..Darkness works for YOU, it is for YOUR recovery, with or without your wife. Yes, the odds are against her affair lasting, but that does not necessarily mean that she will have the remorse and commitment needed for recovery... or that you will still be prepared to commit to recovery if and when she is ready.

Finah, you haven't mentioned an IM... You do have one right?

And what strategies do you have in place for if she tries to make contact? Or when you are tempted to contact her?

Caracal-
�
I read most of your sitch, you have come along way, you are strong and should be proud.
�
Yes I have a IM in place, a mutual friend/acquaintance
�
If she does try and make contact w/ me, I'll block her email or change mine.� Not a big deal.� As for cell phone, I can block that as well.�
�
When I am tempted to contact her, I write emails, then I delete them.� Makes me feel as if " I told her "� But really that is not the problem, it's when she contacts me, thats what I have to be careful about and I suspect she will try b/c I have told her in the past, please don't contact me.� Now I'll implement some safe guards for the time being. (email filter, silence her calls and texts) if she breaks those I'll go more drastic.
�
Right now IC thinks WW is drowning and every so often she calls out and there I go or there my mom goes to save her, need to stop that.
�
I get it, dark dark dark, no peaking.

You'll have to be aware of that.

WW may try the "I need to go to the hospital and you need to take me" route.

ABW3 (abandonedwith3) had a WW who did that. Just something to keep in mind.

She all ready did something weird like that on Wednesday the last I spoke w/ her before I sent a plan B letter. Currently our dogs are split. Well apparently a neighbor thought they saw the
other dog, that I have, running around in our yard. So WW starts texting
me then my mom. My mother finally responded and said the dog was safe
at home with her.

I was dropping something off at the house and told her I wanted to
talk about those TM she sent, as WW was not home, which I thought was strange considering she still thought the dog was missing or something.� She seemed frantic.�I live 10-15 minutes
away from our house, why in the world would my/our dog be there lost
running around did she not think I would call her if something like
that happened?

I dunno my mother and I thought it was bizarre b/c she hasn't been
concerned about them since we split. And she was still sending TM's to me
after the fact wanting to know what I wanted to talk about, is the dog
okay blah blah. When my mother all ready told her.

When I finally did talk to her she was just strange about that whole situation, you had to be there.�
�
Just b/c I am bored.
�
me: why would our dog be here lost?�
ww:�I don't know��
me: don't you think I would call you if I lost him here and be looking for him here?
ww: yes�I just didn't know�if it was him or not�
me: WW you know the neighbors across the street just got a dog like�6 months ago that looks exactly like our dog.�
ww: I know I was just.... I don't know I was worried b/c of what you wrote
me: b/c I wrote I wanted to talk about your tm's you were sending ?, you seemed frantic I was concerned about you.
ww: I was just worried I don't know, the�neighbors said he was responding to his name and everything
me: he loves people why would he just run around and not go to them?
ww: (??? looking puzzled)
�
Who knows if that whole thing even really happened.�

Hey atleast her and posom are using birth control now, iud. I guess before it was just you know gods will or something, sometimes pull and pray and well other times yeah not so much.

Found out Sunday when she was spilling the beans.

Honestly what runs through their mind, crazy crazy

oh the gifts just keep on giving....new update in a bit

Sometimes it feels like it never ends, doesn't it? Just when you think it's safe to come out...


CV

Oh yes they do, just when I think it's going to quiet down.
�
My Mother, who has practically raised my WW and has lived w/ us since her senior year in HS, she was checking to see if my WW actually filed D�online.� She found it, no contest divorce or something another, doesn't matter.�
�
So I am talking to my mother and she was like did anything happen Sunday or Wednesday while you were at the house?� I'm like ummm no, just what I told you, we hugged a lot, she was kissing me but no nothing else why?
�
WW filed a RO against me, RO as in restraining order
�
I didn't know what to think, my first thought was god she is so messed up.
�
My mother flew off the handle.� Called my WW up asking what is going on with all this.
�
WW had no idea or pretended to have no idea, said her lawyer dropped off papers she signed them blah blah.
�
WW reasoning was she didn't want me dropping by the house whenever I wanted b/c you know that wouldn't be fun for her affair.� But her L never mentioned RO to her.
�
Regardless that my name is the mortgage and deed, regardless that a lot of my stuff is still there.
�
WW was upset, crying, yeah poor you.
�
Once again FINAH, with a heart of gold apparently came in to calm her down and talk to her for about an hour.� Dumb Dumb Dumb
�
Said she was going to drop the D, drop the RO, I said if this is the way you are going to go about it, given what has happened,�I'd rather grant�a 30 day dissolution & save myself the headache.
�
Still trying to convince me she didn't know what she was signing, L never mentioned that word......whatever seriously WW.
�
I'm highly considering just cutting her loose and walking, her current state, is just....it's borderline insane
�
My mother still wants to go over there and lay into her...who knows, doesn't matter really to me at this point, I can't control my mother.
�
FINAH is doing one of a couple things
�
1.� Remain friendly through the dissolution and just cut her loose and we shall see later if she wakes up and decides to come back to the real life.
2.� Picking up and just moving somewhere warm....I have no real ties here except my mother and father, my career isn't serious,�I do have a sister in North Carolina where I could go.
�
Just thinking aloud, I am considering option 2 and have been for awhile.� WW knows this and constantly asks me about it.� If the M does ever recover or even the relationship, it's not going to work when OM is literally in the same city as us.� Our city is fairly big, but I wouldn't trust her the first year maybe 2.� And I would get a fresh start, I heart southern girls and I am way too good looking to sit around and wait.� I need to make a move to show I am dead serious.� I keep on letting her drag me back in, knowing that I am there for her.� She needs a very hard dose perhaps an overdose on reality pills.
�
�
�
�
�
�
�

Srsly someone hit me with a 2x4. I let myself get dragged back in everytime.

I'm done with it.

Be strong. don't give in!

CV

I needed that thank u

Hang in there Finah. Have you considered a polygraph for your W?

CV

I would if she would enter recovery or reconcile

last sunday was the first time in a couple months she has even talked about ending things and going to MC and IC

then she went all crazy the next day

Ah. Understood. I would push for it as soon as sanity peeps it's head out

finah, I've been following your sitch. I've got to tell you, I think if you could buckle down and do a serious Plan B with your WW, you might be able to get her home. I think she's on the fence and is thisclose to dumping OM.

1. He's going over the top, talking about them having kids, growing old together, etc. I suspect he is sensing her reluctance to really cut things off with you, so he's painting a rosy picture in order to entice her to commit completely to him. This might be a little too much reality for her - that she's making decisions that will remove you from her life permanently. I think, in her head, her future still includes you.

2. Each time you stiffen your spine and start to stand strong against her actions, she comes running. Clearly you are meeting many of her ENs, and OM can't fill the bill when you're not around.

I really think if you could gather some grit and really kick off a strong Plan B you would see significant results. That means NO CONTACT WITH HER. COMPLETELY DARK. I don't think your mother should be talking to her, either.

Thanks celtic & maritalbliss

That's the plan right now. The RO just threw us both for a loop.

Both my mother and I are worried and rightfully so, the massive swings in mood and the momentary fog clearing only to be sucked back in.

I think it's only a matter of time before something major happens, mental breakdown, anxiety attack, depression

WW has had some underlying depression and anxiety for awhile and this whole sitch has seemed to just magnify times a 100.

I expect it to get crazier.

Honestly I feel bad for her.

Who cries constantly and is happy? No one I know.

Have you been served notice of the RO? What is she alleging against you that requires an RO?

This could actually work in your favor, finah. This will force you into Plan B.

Finah, first off, thank you for those words. They have come on a day when I really needed them.

I have been reading up on what is happening for you, boy WW is sure keeping the coaster going isn't she? Now for some comments on your sitch...

Okay, great news, now have either you or WW actually used this IM? Think of WW as like one of your dogs, she needs to be trained in this. And you need to set the example.

I'll be honest, I wanted my WH to contact me in Plan B... still do, but now only if he is going to meet my conditions. I no longer want his crumbs. And I notice in this you say "if she does try". Why wait finah? Do it now. See, I actually don't think it is important if WW tries to contact you or not, what is important is that YOU know you have blocked access to you. Once I changed my mobile number, an important shift happened in my thoughts... I stopped jumping every time the phone rang, hoping against hope it was WH. Besides, it makes your Plan B so much darker, as you don't know if WW is trying to contact you. But meanwhile if WW does try to contact BUT CAN'T, she will realise how serious, how dark, you have become... because you make clear that you are no longer prepared to accept her crumbs.

Finah, can you see there are still cracks in your Plan B that will let WW see the light? This is a trickle Plan B, where each time your WW gets some sort of contact, she also sees that you are not fully committed to no contact and so she has no real need to end the affair... remember, she is wayward, and as such her thinking is skewed.

Bravo, NOW follow through! You have some good strategies in place to get you trhrough any temptation to contact her, use them!

Sadly Finah, it seems your WW is truly going to have to hit rock bottom. IMO she seems to view you as her KISA, not the posom. It is you she runs to when she wants rescuing. And by always being there, you are in some way rescuing her from the full consequences of her affair. Don't. I know this is difficult, just this weekend a friend's comment triggered a response in me that made me want to check my WH is okay, because I now believe if the affair does collapse, my WH has no support in UK and has isolated himself from support in Aus. But after a stern talking to myself, I realise that protecting WH from the consequences is in a way enabling him. He has choices, and one of those is adhering to Plan B conditions, following the directions I have given him to reach the light.

Finah, I am really sorry about the RO business, it must add to the betrayal. I agree with MB, use this to force you into Plan B and stick with it. Don't give her any ammunition to use against you.

For what it is worth, my brother's XWW went down this route, but couldn't come up with any evidence so it didn't go anywhere. I didn't know about Dr Harley at the time, but he really should have entered Plan B. Instead he recorded all conversations and any meetings took place at police station. Plan B would have been more effective in protecting him from further accusations, his very very wayward XWW and a mean OM.

He is, big turn off to her, he should know better lol.

She is still fused to me, emotionally, she has no clue how to let go. She knows this, but it hasn't registered yet b/c I can't do a proper plan B.


You know, I thought about that. I'm like if your always a wreck where the F is OM at to console you. What a joke. OM is scared of me which makes me feel better and boy if I ever need to I have some bombs I could drop on him, something no man would ever want to hear from a woman.


Totally agree, alas easier said then done, but I am pretty pissed off about the RO so that should help. haha

Agreed there are some holes in my Plan B. As soon as I get the RO & D dropped. I will take your advice and leave nothing to chance, change email, change phone #. No half measures.

I may even take it one step further and move out of state.

Agree though, she will have to hit rock bottom. I think its months away, could be longer could be never who knows. IMO WW are more unstable, they really lack the ability to compartmentalize so when there is spill over it really gets to them.

As in your WH he is just able to separate his thoughts better or at least tries to. But you know what I am talking about. The dominoes are being set up. One flick, one mishap, their life just starts to spin out of control.

Really the RO, yeah it stings. But seriously whatever. I have never seen someone file a RO and two days later say ILY. Though my WW is blonde. lol

It just proves my point. She is lost, can't tell up from down right now.

I thought maybe she is just scared to hurt me and that is why she is doing all this weird crap. Doesn't add up, she has always pined so hard for my attention. Perhaps it was POSOM's idea, who knows, doesn't matter, it wont' go anywhere.

I do know this. I see a lot of people recommend No Mr. Nice Guy.

That isn't me, never has been, but I have taken a lot of crap from her over the past few months so perhaps it applies.

I am very much an alpha male, not afraid of confrontation, I will tell you to go F yourself to ur face if you push me, just the way I am. Strong, confident.

And I have had it w/ this, really have.

Early on in this. I told her to get the F out, I don't want her, go to OM, I'll pack your bags and drop you off.

She wouldn't go.

Conclusion.....need to get my mojo back. And Plan B like a mofo.

You know finah, I did wonder if your WW may have filed for RO to get a response from you after you re-entered Plan B. I think it was MB who raised the WW who used needing to go to hospital to get a reaction. Maybe your WW is needing a reaction, negative or not, like the kid who is trying to get mum's attention will sometimes just keep escalating the behaviour until mum finally cracks...

Regardless of her reasons, you know what you have to do... And I don't think you should wait until after the RO is dropped. Why should this matter? Your IM and a lawyer can deal with this. If you reward the naughty kid with attention for the bad behaviour, what happens?

Hey, so am I! Careful on the blonde jokes finah!
Maybe at this point I shouldn't add that I managed to set my friend's kitchen alight yesterday by placing the electric kettle on the gastop... but I blame that on my lack of sleep, NOT my hair colour! And at least it gave us a lot of laughs after we managed to put it out!

I don't know, I really don't. My mother called her to see what the problem was and she was fine. I knew WW was not fine. I called maybe 5 minutes later, no pick up, she calls back and can barely talk b/c she had been crying.

To get a reaction...probably....

This past week is as crazy as I have ever seen her.

Even when she told me she filed for D, she didn't tell me when she was being all WW to me.

She told me when she was less foggy,lol if that makes sense, when I was vulnerable and knew it would upset me. And then she gets upset when she sees me upset. But when she is all WW on me she has this wall up and of course the stuff that vomits from her mouth is just funny, it's not even hate filled it's just irrational thought after irrational thought. It's like bizarro world, we all know.



Again ur right, it shouldn't matter. It's just me being a baby about what she might do if she knows she can't get a hold of me.

And when that day comes that will be interesting and should be a fun filled post.

If I posted all the crazy weird stuff she has done this thread would be 60 pages long of just me talking to myself.

The stuff she would tell me about her life, even about POSOM, would blow your mind. Now I am being serious no joke I sit there and LOL in her face. And she is always like why are you laughing at me?

WTF? I can't believe you are sitting here telling me this.

Story of her life......she literally has no one in it. Just her and POSOM.





lol, I kid I kid

On a more serious note. Caracal it will be plan B, complete darkness I promise.

It's hard not to poke fun at my WW, but I do feel sorry for her, she has had it tough.

My W and I grew up together, lived together under my parents roof when my mom practically adopted her in HS b/c her parents were never there for her, she is all I know, literally all I know.

It's sickening, both of our families are well off, you want to know how many times her parents called to see where there 16 year old daughter was at 4, 5, 6 am in the morning on school nights & weekends?

Zero.

Want to know how many times her parents called my mother or father to wonder why there daughter was never home, wasn't eating and physically depressed?

Zero.

Want to know what her parents did when she graduated HS?

Got her an apartment and bolted out of state.



^^ That will hurt anyone, I don't care who you are.



So you can see my concern. As much as it hurts me. I will always be there for my WW in some shape or form even if she D's me even if we never reconcile.

I won't abandon her like everyone else has.

Finah, I really hope your WW wakes up. I just worry that if you continue to be her KISA whilst she is wayward you will delay the waking up if she wakes up at all. Because in some sense she does not need to change when you are there to comfort her when she is upset over her behaviour, your behaviour, POSOM, the weather, her cold coffee, errr, you get the point.

Sometimes rock bottom is where the WS needs to be, with no-one there to rescue them, to comfort them, so they can actually see they are alone, and have no one to blame but themselves. Hopefully the wayward then asks themselves the question on what do I need to change to not be alone. I think that in your situation there is a lot of hope as your WW seems to be nearing rock bottom... and this could be the turning point. AND she views you as the KISA who could possibly save her from that loneliness.

I disagree with your views about abandonment... Plan B is NOT abandoning her, it is simply removing yourself from the drama and showing her what life without you will be like. Plan B gives her directions on how to find you again, how to find herself again. Because at the moment, your WW has abandoned herself, her morals, what she values.

My WH was 18 when we started dating, I was 16. We married at 24 and 22 respectively, with my husband asking my father's permission in the old-fashioned way. Moved to UK a year later. My husband's parents and brother tragically died a year after that, and we returned to Aus to live with my parents for just under a year before returning to UK. My parents have in a sense become my husband's foster parents. And he has chosen to give them up through his affair, as he can't face them due to his shame. But initially before I exposed, he was in contact with them and I think he believed the relationship with them, and me as his best friend, would be maintained.

I am also concerned that my WH has no-one if the guilt hits, if the affair fails. He has some work colleagues in UK, but no-one particularly close (prior to affair anyway). I was his sole support there, we both lived in a bit of a bubble.

But my reaching out to him at this point would also not do him any favours. Other then reinforce that he might be able to have OW, my parent's support and me as his best friend at some point in the future. Or worse (and what I think he thought at the beginning), that I would be option #2 in case things didn't work out with skank. Reaching out to him may prolong his current behaviour, enable it in some way.

I so wish my WH was nearing rock bottom...

IMO a dark Plan B is NOT abandoning the WS.. You have shown her the path back to you and the marriage via Plan B letter... she simply has to follow your directions.

That comment was probably taken out of context, I apologize.

I will still be in plan B. I do agree, it's not abandoning.

What I meant was later down the road, for instance she D's me, I move on and meet someone else.
And she is knocking at the door some day, I won't turn her away, I'll help her in any way I can.
I guess what I meant is the door will always be open. I can still love my WW from a distance and not in romantic sense, but act out of compassion.

Wow though are sitches are pretty similar. I will def. follow yours more closely and read it all this week.

I will say this. If my WW is anything like your WH and its pretty similar so I am sure it is. He does think about you, I promise, my WW said sometimes it was all she thought about even when she was w/ OM.
The A is not all crazy sex and roses and beautiful sunrises and sunsets that I can promise you.

WAKE UP WS'S!!!

There hopefully they both heard us.

But again you are strong Caracal it's inspiring esp. your plan B, gives me something to strive for.

Just saw this.

MB no idea on the RO, not the faintest clue, hasn't been served yet either.

Kind of looking forward to it to see wth it says.

changed email and cell

feel better all ready

Good for you!

Your IM is in place already?

CV

Amazing isnt it! Its like ahhhh, that better

It is funny....b/c I never noticed how much my heart does a pitter patter when I get an email or text or phone call.

IM is in place.

Thinking about re-exposing to the workplace.....looking back I don't think it really went anywhere above her supervisor who was in the process of leaving I guess, so I found out later from her.
�
Thinking aloud
�
Is there any benefit to this so late in the game?�
�
I will say I was surprised nothing really came of it, though my WW think it did prevent a promotion.
�
I remember WW telling me that they caught two people in a work place affair some time ago�and axed them both that day.... no judge no jury.
�
Will definitely send it certified mail but don't have any names......can I use generic headings?
�
For ex. Senior Director HR or VP Senior of Gen'l Counsel?
�
I mean I would assume they would open it.
�
I guess this time around�should I provide evidence or just a simple letter?
�
Then again the blow back of them losing their job would it just create a�massive amount of resentment in my WW?
�
She would be devastated, we would lose the house, she would lose her car......everything.
�
�
Don't know.� Personally I don't think at this stage it's my job to be handing out consequences.......life seems to be doing that pretty well for her so far.
�
I know her coworkers know as I don't think they are hiding their R from anyone.
�
Thoughts on re-exposure......I know I don't see any point in re-exposing to friends and family as everyone knows about the R........any success with re-exposing the workplace?
�
Just feels a little vindictive at this point.
�

Are they still working together? If so, and you don't think you did a complete exposure before, I would expose again. Let us see your exposure letter before you send it.

Call there and ask for the contact info of the top dogs. CEO, Owner of the company, Corporate attorney, etc.

Will do on the exposure letter, I'll work on it tonight. But yes they still work together, not actually together, but at the same place


We have been over this very early in my sitch so I apologize. My WW workplace deals with a lot of gov't contracts in the bio-medical field. Security is taken very seriously there. They will not give out any info like that I assure you. So I will have no choice to make it "general" unless I can find something online.

On a side note I was served this morning........yay

The things that were in it were really quite funny.

temporary and permanent spousal support....My WW earns double my salary...lol

she asking for all court fees, attorney fees etc...

the reason is the best one....Gross neglect and extreme cruelty and incompatibility

The RO was basically stating I can't remove any assets etc etc.

It looks like they tried to get the RO also based on from harassing, molesting and striking....but it wasn't approved by the judge.....

So the RO is pretty worthless considering all of our financials are separate and all my stuff that is left at the house is premarital so I am not worried about that.

Meet with my attorney next week.

Again my mother was none to pleased, she is pretty dead set on trying to scare the crap out of my WW when I respond.



I don't think this is going anywhere to be honest WW won't be able to go thru with it, would bet my life on it and it would drain her financially plus I put a dissolution back on the table as a way cheaper and better option.

Shhhh....thats a trick....I don't plan on giving her a dissolution...I just want this all dropped......b/c its 450 each time you file here....lol...so if she wants to refile she has to drop another 450.


Crazy pills are on sale somewhere though

Standard letter just modified a bit. Should I include any evidence. I do have an email between them discussing about hiding it from work.

To Whom It May Concern:
�
This letter is to bring a matter to your attention that may be a violation of your Company's Code of Conduct and/or other policies, procedures and business ethics.
�
WS and WS are involved in an extramarital affair that is taking place, in the workplace. Aside from the potential sexual harassment claims and any other future legal dilemmas that this situation may present, it also involves the inappropriate use of company resources and assets. WS and WS are using company time and company resources to further their affair. If you check the call histories on their office and cell phones along with their workstation computers and the interoffice instant messaging service, you will find the two of them are spending an inordinate amount of what should be productive work time to further their sexual relationship.
�
I have retained legal counsel to help guide me through this process and I expect that this will be handled with the upmost care and discretion.� If you have any questions, please call me at xxx-xxxx. Otherwise, I will anticipate a response from you once you have investigated these concerns and taken appropriate corrective action.
�
�
�
-BS
�
cc:� [Director of Gen�l Counsel, Legal]
����� [VP Senior Manager of Security]

Excellent. Make sure you send it certified mail so that a signature is required. The VP's secretary who opens his mail might be best friends with WW and decide to toss the letter.

good luck with the response.

Should I provide maybe a 1 page print out of their phone records actively showing them calling and texting each other every 5 minutes @ work?


On a side note something has stirred the hornets nest I think.......

Sadly I got rid of a lot of my intel that I had setup.....but still have access to some

WW had a convo w/ her step dad today for about an hour......which is very unusual.

Then a couple hours later a half hour convo w/ her lawyer......which never happens, they usually meet up.

About what? No idea.......she filed....I was only served days ago......I don't think they would be expecting a response that soon?


And some weird phone stuff going on

POSOM and WW were talking last night around 0050 for about 10 minutes and they got off the phone......

Then he calls her back 10 minutes later......no answer

Sends her 4 texts right after that...........no answer

Can't imagine she fell asleep that fast? and she keeps her cell right next to her bed?

Calls again in the morning around 10.....finally an answer

Then WW calls him 2 hrs later.....I am guessing after she got ready.....real short convo 3 minutes...

POSOM calls back literally 2 minutes later......no answer

WW calls him back 20 min. later....

Then the rest is from her parents, the lawyer, a good friend who is trying to get her back involved in coaching, which my WW and I were actively involved in.

Finally POSOM sends a text at 1600......no answer

Then WW finally responds 4 hours later with a phone call.......real short 3 minutes.


Just.......seems odd b/c they usually never shut up and its just back and forth back and forth........

Maybe that is what she was talking about......that POSOM can be annoying in that sense..who knows.



It is funny though b/c I can label phone numbers when I view my bill.......so instead of seeing their phone numbers I see : WW text sent.......POSOM text received......lol

Affairs die a natural death. When did this start? Are they coming up on 2 years?

STAY VERY DARK in PLAN B.

Don't try to analyze this because it will make you crazy.

Let it die naturally - it is likely heading there!

It's not something I check often, but every once in awhile since the account is in my name I want make sure she is not making long distance calls to Tokyo and if so I can suspend the phone.

Which is another story in itself why I still pay her cell.

I'll stay dark....I can stay off the roller coaster pretty well when I don't have to see or speak w/ her, so it's nothing I obsess over, just thought it was weird.

But the EA started last year around August, maybe even before.

So this thing b/w them has been going on for over a year now....

Been physical for about 5 months now.

So what is this story? Just curious, as although Plan B is largely about YOU, it is also about showing WS the consequences of their affair, and showing you will in no way be supportive of that affair. Paying the phone bill is in some sense paying for WW to keep in contact with OM (even if this is not your intention). Is there no way you can disconnect to make clear to WW you will not support her affair in any way, shape or form?

If you can, take every action available that could show disapproval of the affair whilst still adhering to Plan B darkness.

Tough sums it up. Lets hope all is going crappy in crappyland. And meanwhile, it sounds as though you are feeling better without the contact with a wayward. Stay strong, and dark. Meanwhile, WW has to try and replace YOU, her knight in shining armour, with POSOM. I imagine that is no fairytale for her

Caracal-
Late happy birthday! Glad it was pretty smooth for u.

As for the cell phone.........it's stupid really I guess.......when WW and I first separated she wanted to do it as fast as possible, dissolution, sell the house, split everything, give her the bills, she would take care of everything........If I would have caved and turned everything over to her......I'd have zero leverage on anything ............It's not about the money........she can easily afford to pay for everything........
And she would constantly send me messages about it.........."let me off your account"......."I called and I need your authorization"......
I was stubborn and ignored it........I didn't want to do it b/c it was what she wanted........so it forced her to get prepaid cell phones and just waste money b/c she thought I was tracking her or something, so I thought it was kind of funny in that sense.
She can leave my account any time she wants now b/c I left an authorization note for her to do so.......but she hasn't.
Really to me it's.......a drop in a bucket.
I think it's going to take some time for my WW to realize what is "really" going on......honestly I think it will take a D for that to happen, I don't know........just my guess.

I meet w/ my attorney this week though.........I do have kind of a plan.....
I want to force a dissolution by giving up my rights to the house.......meaning she gets the house she becomes responsible for it and if it doesn't sell she will have to refinance eventually.

Boom court date set.......I come w/ a truck and grab my [censored] and I'm gone.....everything the table, the lawn mower the plates.....I'm outta there see you good-bye.

WHY would I do that.........it allows me to walk away faster, the house....it means nothing to me, if we were to reconcile..........I wouldn't live there.

Plus I want the full weight of that home to be on her......b/c when I was there........I did everything, Mr. Handy man, fix the house, fix her car.........as you probably well know anytime there was a problem.....who was there to fix it for her.....ME......I always joked with her when she would turn the dryer on or something......I would say " OH I didn't know you knew where the dryer was"
POSOM= not so handy and not too smart. Have fun w/ maintaining a home.

I'm not scared of dissolving our marriage........we could always get back together or not......

And really I need to start taking control b/c she has been swinging me whichever way she wants.

The funny thing is though........as soon as I start to show I am dead serious about giving her the house and getting the rest of my things out of there as fast as possible and or going forward w/ that god awful D she filed....

I'll meet resistance, guarantee it.......

She will miss your practical skills, I should know, shortly after separation and my parents going away the shower door handle broke. I was so upset over something so simple to fix, just because I have NEVER had to do this and it bought home the reality of the separation. Lucky for me I have some terrific family friends who are handy with tools. Sounds as though WW is not so lucky.

Thanks for the b'day wishes. Next years b'day will be even easier!

Can you explain to me what a dissolution is?

It's basically where the couple agrees to the ending of the M and the division of the assets...no real lawyers involved no judge to decide.

Hand in ur paper work.....court date is set.....judge looks at the paper work..see's that the couple agrees...and then declares you D.

takes about 30 days.

Thanks for the explanation, now I understand you are preparing for D. I have actually started reading your post from the start and see that dissilution is already explained, so sorry for the repeat.

I had a giggle over a few of your WW comments (NOT at your expense, simply that I heard some so similar). Honestly, WS's must go to an adultery website, maybe as we BS's post and scan MB's, our waywards are desperately reading about what fogbabble to spin to us and loved ones next! www.affairbuilders.com anyone?

I have not googled this, hope it does NOT actually exist...

oh god.......I'm scared to look back at what I said @ the beginning of my sitch.




Sad thing is I can't post all the really good stuff that spews out of her mouth......it's all to sexual in nature.....pretty sure I would get banned.

My WW is off in never never land with pink elephants and candy scattered all over the ground.

Honestly I thought it was getting better.......now I just see it as completely crazy.....I mean she is pretty gone.

The amount of txting they do is.....juvenile in nature. If I had someone txting me that much I'd change my phone number and I'm young so I understand texting......but srsly....I'm not in high school......pick up the damn phone.

But that's their R. I don't think they have a "whole lot" to talk about. They are never on the phone more than 10-15 minutes. I think I have seen one convo over 45 minutes and that was when I had her almost recommitted to the M and she tried to end it w/ him.

All they do is txt......it's impersonal. But it makes sense. B/C when I caught them going on a date......the first thing she said was.......we had nothing to talk about.....now how is that......someone you are having an EA w/ talking over the internet in emails/instant message and you meet in person and you don't talk???

I don't think either of them know how to communicate over a 9th grade level. Which again explains her weird comment.

" I don't feel a connection with POSOM like I do with you " Honestly WTF

That's a new one.......soul mates, we don't talk.......we text.





lol, only if anyone had more free time.......build a giant database on wayward talk



If you think you don't love your spouse anymore....... tell them you never loved them.

If your spouse catches you cheating........ tell them they are just a friend and quit acting all psycho.

If your spouse becomes more accusatory in nature of your "friend".......tell them you're soul mates.......but that you are just friends and you didn't mean for it to happen so quit acting all psycho.

WOW I read some of my earlier posts.......man was I naive.

I literally believed everything that left my WW's mouth.


If I am going down......I'll go down swinging.

A HUGE MISTAKE THAT I HAVE MADE:

Believing that OM's parents knew......

My WW assured me they knew early on.

Major F-up by me.

She let it slip they don't have a clue.

POSOM is getting impatient.� So all my efforts are pretty much going to be directed at ruining his life until I see fit.


Coming up next........massive full scale re-exposure.......on a much bigger scale than I did previously.�

2 certified letters went out today to their work place.....one where they work and another to their HQ.

1 letter to OM's parents

500+ FB messages to all his friends and family......starting early Friday morning.

�

On a side note this concerns me..........

On 7/5 I wrote that below.....don't really even remember writing that......but it's a lie.� Is that normal?� To be so stressed out you forget things......or just sit there and openly lie......it's out of character for me.
�
I don't know.� It's hard to remember.....I remember my WW making me feel as if.......it was useless.....I should just move on.....perhaps I had given up temporarily, hence why I stopped posting........it was only when I went dark that I regained myself.....interesting to say the least.
�
Well this round of exposure.....I expect more from........we shall see.....I'll post updates as I get them.

Make sure you leave 90 seconds between each Facebook message , copy the names and web links of as many of the key friends you can and save them . He will block you once he gets a few calls.

Yup I know. I found the old list I had saved. Compared it to his current one. Seems like he deleted some specific women, perhaps ex girlfriends? Will message them as well.

I'm excited.

I'd like to knock out about 200 this morning and the rest Friday night into Saturday morning.

Go for it , get some tea sit back and send away.

let the fun begin

is it evil that this is so much fun?

took him 3 hrs to take down his FB page.....lol

still got all his contacts......keep on rolling

You will probably find he is blocking you hoping you can't get to his friends list. He is sure to have contacted your wife as well.

Ignore her if she calls .

Nope I checked via another FB login...his account was deleted it appears......

My WW has no way to get a hold of me

I did receive support from someone though which made me happy.

Said they were deleting this "loser"

I was going to stop for a bit........just gave me a little more adrenaline rush

WW keeps on texting OM.....he has yet to respond though

awwwwww poor affairville

Did you mention your wifes name in the exposure . The pressure has to be bought on her as well.

Her name is mentioned.........though my W doesn't have facebook.

You rock finah, go go go.


Then have the beve. of your choice and enjoy the beautiful fall wkend.


Personallly i would leave my phone at home and enjoy.

Let them rotate in the toilet that they are living in

Finah,

Just read your thread from the begining, good to see you taking positive steps! Please stay in a dark plan B. Plan finah hasn't worked so well.

You sound very strong, just don't get pulled back in.

Good luck!

One hopes the company and her parents take action. How many did you eventually expose to ?

Somewhere around 200 initially..........I will do every last one of them

I will be surprised if they do not......I was surprised nothing had last time, but I took half measures......I don't think it went above anyone but her boss and he left.


doubtful........her step dad and mother are the result of an Affairage

This kind of stuff is "normal" for them it's god's work or something.

Her parents get a plan B for life from me......regardless.

Pretty sure POSOM and WW got into a fight last night

Caused by yours truly

He stopped answering her text and phone call.

AWWWWWWWW poor lil WAYWARD

Though their addicts..........so I am sure they will be at it again today.


To make it clear

I'm out for POSOM

I don't care if he files RO after RO or seeks a protection order

I won't stop until he is gone.

Sent POSOM a few txts messing with his mind.........stuff he doesn't know that I know.....non threatening of course....just facts.

He never responds to me....b/c he is a coward and he knows it.

This is pretty much psych warfare if you think about it. hmmm wonder if there are any books on it and the techniques.

Still dark to my WW.

Don't text him anymore, Wait to see if there is fallout from work. In the interim check your exposure list to see if there are co-workers on it , if not try find a few and expose to them . Once done leave it be and the exposure message will work itself though the friends.

Focus on you , you must ensure you are physically and mentally healthy, this ride has a way to go still.

I won't.


I hope so, but we shall see.

Only saw a few on there....I made sure they got the message first. Still exposing. I will get to all 500.



I'm good...kind of a health nut...as long as I don't have to deal w/ WW I should remain sane. lol

Struck a cord with some people.......lol

Funny how people defend/rationalize cheating and adultery

Oh yes that is infuriating.

One of our friends ( a man who as a guest at our wedding got a free meal in return for his support of our commitment) texted my h after my FB exposure to see if HE was alright. Unlucky for him, I still had WHs phone since running out the house with it (and some horrible adultery texts).

Worse still the text implied he had known about the affair all along.

When I called him to give him a piece of my mind, he stuttered a bit before coming out with

"THIS IS A PRIVATE MATTER BETWEEN YOU AND HIM. What are you doing splashing it over FB?"

To which I replied.

"His adultery is not a private matter between me and him - It is a SECRET matter between him and her. And our marriage wasnt private at the wedding you attended!"

But to matter how good you zing them, it still sucks that your friends dont care as they pretended to.

Love your reply to him.


I received two responses from those close to him.

Their arguments.........could I tear them apart........you bet, do I want to reply........yes......but we all know it would be pointless.

The fact they immediately got defensive tells me.......everything.

I mean piss and moan all you want.

But them rationalizing about how he did nothing wrong and is a good person and not backing it up with anything except their own subjectivity on the matter...........please..... save your words and threats.

Most people are cowards deep inside. They will avoid thinking anything that will cause them to take any kind of action which they find difficult. That's one of the reasons they rationalize it, they won't have to do something that might be painful.

Keep up your spirits, you are on the right side.

Happyheart

I just have this sneaky suspicion that something else is going on that I don't know about.

Something is just not adding up..........

Could WW be pregnant?

I don't know.........perhaps I am over analyzing and my own fears are invading my thoughts.....

I'll be back to say what might lead me to think that

Right now I need to think and establish a timeline.

I was also told that OW was pregnant, so make sure you have facts, in my case it turned out not to be, so stay calm!

BTW
happyheart thx for the response I forgot to acknowledge you in my last post. But I agree with your thoughts on people being cowards deep inside, very true in today's world.

MFJ
I am glad it turned out to be false, that couldn't have been a pleasurable experience.



okay maybe I'm crazy....




9/16 -Friday

WW returns from weeklong vacation

9/17- Saturday

I check on the house, she isn't there, I find a empty box of pregnancy tests.......but no tests

9/18- Sunday

Keeps on calling her attorney but no pick up. Later WW tells me when she got home from vacation she cried for over an hour. wants help, wants to go to counseling all that stuff. we talk for hours. about everything.
I asked her if she is scared of getting pregnant, no real answer from her. Somehow I brought up the topic of OC during an affair, how couples deal with it, but I made it very clear to her that if it happened, I'd be gone. She really didn't say anything until I changed the subject.

9/19- Monday

She files D. Texts my mom that night. " I miss you and love you "

9/21- Wednesday

She is acting weird. I go over she gas lights me a bit. She had an appt. to get a IUD, but come to find out a week later she cancelled. I get her to calm down. Told me she filed D.

I asked why? And I get the infamous

" You made me do it "



Fast forward two weeks

10/6- Thursday

0640- txt from POSOM

They go back and forth a bit

She drops off for over an hour.......no phone calls.........no texts

I see a bill pop up for a medical test, where they run blood results.

She finally pops back up @ 0830 and immediately calls her attorney........no answer

Then a frantic back and forth b/w her parents and POSOM the rest of the day.




Am I crazy?

If she is pregnant, is there a possibility that it cold be yours?

Nope.......last time we had real legit SF was in early July and I remember she had her menstrual cycle marked down on her calender for July and August I believe.

Finah, I just updated on your thread. Geez, those suspicions about WW must hurt. Maybe we all think them at one time or another, I know early on I wondered if skank was pregnant.

I have found in plan b that when I have any sort of contact with WH my hopes and expectations rise only to come crashing down again when WH does not fall back into my arms. Well, I did do this, my relapse has made things feel different for me at the moment. I'll wait and see if it lasts. The point is, how are you riding out the exposure hopes?

Give us an update on how you are, hope you are taking care of yourself and staying strong.

Exposure....it is what it is.

I know it had an effect, it was late in the game so I am sure that effect was taken down a couple notches, but I feel better about it.

I didn't expect it to end the A.......but hopefully it left a sour taste in their mouth.

As for her being pregnant........it kind of just popped into my head one night as I was journaling and looking back at what I wrote.

I checked a few things and something felt..........off

Nothing I can do about it......

If it turned out to be true......I'd be gone anyways, no question.


Coming up on a month of NC.


This is where I faltered last time.........felt like I was doing really good and had a major setback so I will avoid that pitfall.


Really I am just blah or apathetic about everything. I want something to happen one way or the other. I am just fed up I guess. I don't know what the truth is anymore and I am done trying to figure it out.


If we ever hit recovery.......I'll be totally honest, I don't know if I will have what it takes.

I know about all the EP's and UA time, NC and all that jazz.

But if I have to snoop on my W and verify everything all the time to see if she is being faithful..........

I'm sorry but I'm out.


That is just too mentally draining for me. She went deep underground during our FR b/c she knew I had stuff in place but didn't know how or where. And every single time I checked my heart would just race.......

I'm not going to be M to any W who I have to constantly check up on and worry about.

She will have to show me a fundamental change in her behavior and commitment in order for me to consider R, I'm done towing the line for both of us.



I'm the one who has fought tooth and nail for our M during her EA, I'm the one who set up MC, I'm the only one that had to change.... then..... I was the one who fought for the M when FR hit, I'm the one who has reached out endless times, I'm the one that is able to calm her down...I'm the one that listens to her........on and on.

does anyone see a pattern evolving here?



Done trying to fix, done trying to show her the way

She either wants to be M to me or doesn't.



I deserve all of someone........not half.........none of this I'm not sure what I want crap.

All of someone.......if she doesn't get that...........then I will find someone who does.

thanks CV for pointing all that out.

and thx Caracal for the bump.

just journaling a bit.

I have an issue of over pouring my thoughts, that it just spills into my replies, into my attitude, into my thought process, I question myself, others. I don't know, searching for anything, the answer, the key to fix this entire mess.

But I also find that I tend to immerse myself a bit into the things I am passionate about, is that a flaw?

I don't feel as if I have lost a balance in life.

For instance I was into cars, it became a hobby of mine right as I was graduating HS, it's a waste of money to some, but to those who are passionate about it......it's different, it's special.

At the same time this was all going on and developing.....my WW and her best friend since.......wow I mean when they were little.......they moved out into a nice duplex together to start college........but as soon as her friend started to have a life outside of their relationship......they never recovered that friendship b/c my WW just never understood it.

To this day........if I were to bring it up........instant Niagara Falls, over something so trivial b/c her friend was growing up......what happened shortly thereafter.........she moved in with me......

My WW then turned her attention on my hobby....she put up with it for a long time. Supported it at first...but again, grew tired of it and forced me to give it up when we moved into our home.......

I got out of it, I sold everything..........isolated myself from a lot of our great friends I had made and she had made doing that.........why?

So I had all this extra free time.......my WW was starting to really get involved with coaching.........so I got involved, taking pictures, making end of the year tribute videos for the kids.......to feel involved, which only led to me being more and more involved in her sport.........I grew to like it.

But she gave it up for no reason.......b/c she felt like she was being passed over? Wasn't being given enough credit for what she was doing..... I'd always talk her down, but it always would pop back up........but these were our only friends, people that have known my WW longer than I have. The sport she coached.........was year round and it made up our life........and she just up and quit one day, I supported her in her decision....what else was I to do?
And I remember........I was thinking.......what are we going to do now?

Again we became isolated........

She started becoming restless........we brought up marriage a couple times and it kind of just happened.....no real plan. I'll be honest........the thought of M never really crossed my mind, but I loved her.

And then boom 1 year later out of nowhere..........she has an affair.

And right now.......I can see the cycle starting all over.......she is about to graduate w/ her MBA that she has wanted to quit literally every week.......
And with that going away in December........she is all ready looking to get back into coaching......but is hesitant.......b/c it reminds her of me.......

Round and round we go.

Small update:
�
Went to our house when WW was @ work to check on one of our dogs I haven�t seen in a month and to check on some stuff that I still have stored there including another vehicle.
�
Everything appeared to be okay, WW has sold some premarital assets out of the home and is in the process of selling her car��
�
Which I thought according to the D, neither of us was allowed to move any of our assets.� Will have to contact my attorney on that one, honestly I don�t care about those things, but if I have to follow the rules she should as well.
�
One weird thing, I had a back pack in a closet, packed with stuff that my wife and I shared together, nothing terribly expensive, approx. $500 worth, it�s nothing she could sell b/c its unique to us and would be worthless to anyone else, but the items are all gone?
�
Not quite sure what to make of that.
�
Her wayward step father is advising her to change the locks on the home��.
�
Again another issue to bring up with my attorney
�
Her desk looks like a terrorist hang out, 3 or 4 different cell phones, game plans on what she needs to do��lol.
�
Found about 100 or so pictures of her and POSOM near her desk as well, kissing, hugging, at her wayward parent�s house, anything and everything���it was weird b/c I literally felt nothing while looking at the pictures.
�
Saw some printed off emails from wayward step dad to WW, continues to take jabs at me behind my back.� This was a problem before and I have confronted him on the issue but he never has the courage to say it to my face.
�
Really that bothered me more than anything.� As I have mentioned before, wayward step dad has gas lighted WW before and that was when the problems started arise b/w him and I.
�
I just want this to be over with.� I miss my other dog more than I miss my WW.�
�
My IC asked me when was the last time I felt loved in our relationship w/ WW��.I couldn�t even answer her.
�
And that�s the problem.� My WW has been head over heels for me since the day we met.� A year into our R I tried to break up with her�.and couldn�t do it.� WW moved in with us shortly after b/c she was going through a rough time, I remained committed and chose to still love her b/c��..that�s what good people do.
�
I married a woman��.who values none of what I or my parents have showed her over our entire relationship�� but I must have been doing something for her, she always looked at me with such awe�.. I remember questioning myself on more than one occasion why I didn�t feel the same.
�
I should have known better
�
Still love her, still care for her��.not as a W though.
�

Finah - Infidelity does that to you. You lower your value system to accomodate the changes you have to do inside of you.

It is a battle amongst them only. My WH had a higher value system while we were married. Now he is like your WW. They have a circle of friends that are not at their same value system.

Remember "Bad company corrupts good character."

Your WW will continue to chose those around her that make her pain, guilt, and choices tolerable. Because for her to up her friends with higher values means she will also have to up her values. That means she will need to address her issues. Today she refuses because inside it is too painful.

She knows you well, and she knows your family. You are her common enemy today because you represent her truth. She doesn't want her truth, and she doesn't want you to be in her face with her truth. Until she is ready to address her truth she will avoid you like the plague.

Stay dark and let her fester in her insides. Let her OM be her punching bag. She cannot control herself today. Her insides are building. They are building with pain, agony, doubt ... this will need to blow soon. You want to be out of her way when it blows. Let OM be around her to get the brunt of it.

Human nature cannot keep those insides locked away too long. She can try as much as she wants, but it will slowly begin to seep out of her.

Usually it starts with headaches, stomach aches, a lower immune system ... let me ask you, "Where is her negativity?"

My WH has hated everything in his life since his adultery. His job sucks, parenting sucks, I, his wife, suck, his friends suck, his finances suck, his living arrangements suck ... yada yada yada

Because inside he sucks -- something will give soon for waywards. It always does because this adultery works like an addiction. In the beginning the highs are there -- they are so powerful and so strong nothing in this world feels like it anymore.

As time progresses the chemicals wear off and reality sets in. The adultery is becoming harder to hide, harder to keep up with, and harder to rationalize. The adultery partner is beginning to show true signs of themselves. They rot with selfishness, lies, and deceit. The adultery partner is now human. But wait!!! How could this adultery partner be human when the feelings I had for them were so powerful?

This is when the adultery begins to crumble because the taker comes out now. The giver was in charge, but now the taker wants a turn and they turn on each other.

Adultery partners do not make good mates. The lies, deceit, and selfishness kills the relationship. Dr. Harley suggests that happens within two years. Sometimes it can take up five years. It just depends on the situation.

Today your choice is to wait out this adultery or move on with your life. It is up to you. She is showing signs there are cracks in the relationship. Wayward stepdad can try and pump up the relationship all he wants, but it is fading.

All the pictures of them two is her way of trying to hold onto the feelings of love. She is grasping at remembering the feelings. How many homes of elderly people do you enter and they have gobs and gobs of pictures of the two of them all over the place? Very few because maturity moves beyond that ... it is only sign of the first stages of romantic love. She doesn't have the tools to continue working it. They are both too selfish to make the relationship last.

You have plenty of time to decide your fate. She has another year left until she is at the two year mark. I predict its demise well before that time.

Tough~

Thx Tough

The kicker.......one of the pictures I saw......was both of their names written in sand w/ a big heart around it


We have the EXACT SAME PICTURE from our honeymoon that WW and I took, I couldn't help but laugh at that.

As for your question

It's every where in her life, her job, the house, her car.....she is getting rid of everything. Much like ur WH.



And I know what she is doing....


Pushing everything or anything out of her life that reminds her of me....or causes pain.

As if it will make it all go away like special fairy dust.

As for her wayward parents........they will do what they always do........drop off the face of the earth when things die down.


It's been over a year, approaching 1.5 years in a couple months, since she started this EA (or what I think was just an EA) with this POS.

It turned PA....literally overnight.


100% Her loss

I lose absolutely nothing by moving on and I have everything to gain.


If she did ever decide to grow a conscious and try and come back....I'm sorry but it's not going to be my job, yet again, to pick up the pieces for her.


There are serious consequences when you play the adultery card........


One of them is you may lose your BS forever.

Had the D Settlement meeting on Wednesday

�

Pretty uneventful for me�..

�

Probably should thank my attorney as she did all the work and negotiating for me�.. she knew I just wanted it over with and the details didn�t matter�..It�s all just stuff to me�.stuff that I can buy over�.money that I can still earn�.too young to sit there and worry about it.

That was my feeling.

Basically I received a cash settlement �..which surprised me and my attorney��

WW didn�t fight my attorney on anything�.which surprised me

WW was upset according to her attorney�..which didn�t surprise me

�

I did make them go over a couple of big ticket items that were still left to be divided��I just wanted to prevent any confusion or future argument.

The things I chose��no fight from her side.

�

As for the rest of the small stuff�..WW relayed thru her attorney that we should have no problem dividing it up��.which is news to me since she thought everything was hers.

�

My attorney did bring up that my WW school debt (MBA program) that she incurred during the M��she could of laid half of that on me�..but didn�t even try to for some reason��.. she thought that was strange�..but we kept quiet on it.

�

WW definitely got the short end of the stick��.by purpose�..to punish herself�..I don�t know?

�

I thought for sure I was walking into a battle�..

*edit*

Is there something we can help you with?

You should read the articles on this site, and you too can have an affair proof marriage.

Affairs happen because a spouse has poor boundaries around members of the opposite sex. It says nothing about the state of someone's marriage. Even good marriages fall victim to affairs.

Maybe she did feel like she wanted to punish herself. I know that when my mom was having her affair, she signed EVERYTHING over to my dad. She was ready to leave the marriage with the clothes on her back. Her A ended, right around the 2 year mark, and she returned to my dad. They are currently floundering as they aren't following any type of recovery plan. Who knows why your WW did it, and it will make you crazy trying to figure it out.

Ima, I am offended. Both by your posts and by your posting handle. You show no signs of having any knowledge of Dr. Harley's work of over 40 years, and certainly do not exhibit any signs of being an "insider" to the Marriage Builders program in any way.

You jumped in here head first without introduction and started spewing nonsense that has nothing to do with marriage building.

I may get a moderator warning for this post, but rarely does a poster raise my ire such as you have with your presumption and reckless posting. I hope you will take some time to actually READ what this site is all about before you post again.

Who knows or to play the victim card.....just another wayturd mystery

She took notes when I took my own things out of the home, premarital belongings......

I had to literally steal 3 lunch containers so I could pack my lunch for work

Also coming from someone who wouldn't even give me a few spices for all the chicken that I cook.....

The constant message of everything is her's.....then a complete 180.


But....but they are soul mates.......the A end......not possible......A stands for ALWAYS.




That must be hard on you.......knowing what you know and how it can be saved.......I'm sorry.......my parents hold PhD's in love busting.......I often just have to leave the room.




Just a process I go thru.....

Big weekend coming up.

Moving time & the division of all the itty bitty things.

Honestly I can't wait to get my stuff out of there, recently it has felt like it has been holding me back in a sense from truly moving on.

Tried to get my stuff last week, WW wouldn't make time.

Heard thru the grapevine that over the weekend she thought I was dating.......which isn't true.

Magically her schedule opens up....couldn't spare me a day......now it's I'm free anytime.

wayturds....does it ever stop?

My original plan was to set aside a couple hours during the week where we would go over everything in the house......set it aside.......that way when I come w/ a truck on Sunday I can just pick it up and go.....no arguing....no fuss or confusion......done and over with.

I wanted to do that during this week........

She wants to do it on Friday or Saturday evening?

Hasn't given me a weekend in 7 months b/c those are strictly POSOM only days and now she can only meet then?

Pretty much preparing myself for anything in between gas lighting me and trying to sleep with me.

Ugh.... not looking forward to this.

Hi Finah, I'm only just updating on your thread and saw you are going to have contact.

You know you are breaking Plan B right? Up to you if you want to, but you are breaking it.

I thought I would suggest some options... does WW have to be there? Could you have IM write list of what items you want and ask WW to put these aside. Then you or IM could collect when WW is out of the house?

If you choose to do this in person with WW, I really would encourage you to have an impartial person accompany you. For support. You sound strong and may not need it, but it would likely reduce WW's gaslighting attempts and would certainly put a dampner on her trying to have SF!

Caracal
�
I�m not worried about breaking Plan B��.I�ll be fine�.. I know it�s not advised ���..if I couldn�t handle it I�d use an IM��but really I have been fine around her, given her wayturdness.
�
All just smoke and mirrors.
�
�
It�s going to be a permanent plan B as soon as I leave with my things.
�
�
Maybe I�d be up for reconciliation down the road��but not now.
�
�
Sad thing is, this whole sitch���it�s taken me over a year to even begin to really see the big picture.
�
I more than owned my side of things��..
�
Her issues��..are bigger than the A �..It�s only a piece in that puzzle.
�
In hindsight I wish I would have filed immediately with out warning when I discovered the EA.
�
Naturally I was in plan A as soon as I discovered the EA�..been that way until I started going dark sometime in August I think��
�
�
I am proud of myself though��when I discovered the EA��no love busters�..no disrespectful judgments��.never even raised my voice about it��..after we talked about it��I never brought it up again.
�
Been busting my behind ever since trying to make her happy�..
�
�
And I feel like I have sacrificed a lot of who I am in the process.
�
�
The gas lighting I can control��.really when I deal with her it�s not bad��again for some reason I just have a way with her��
�
Some BH�s are not so lucky on that front.
�
�
�
As for the SF
�
I don�t know�..I may record it��then send it to POSOM
�
That seems like a nice going away present for everyone.

And on a side note. I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time she has cheated in our R.

this isn't surprising......just rec'd an email.


reneging on the plans....she doesn't want to rush things.


OH NOEZ POOR WAYTURD IS LOSING HER CAKE AND OPTIONSSSSS


Time for a reality check.

Those thoughts suck don't they? Not having any answers, just doubts and suspicions. I started to wonder about that at one point as well. Since WH doesn't even want to admit to the current affair, I don't have a hope in hell of getting an answer about the past. Especially not in Plan B.

I have just resigned myself to not knowing. I take pride in the fact that WH had no reason not to have trust in me. I can no longer say the same for him, and this taints my memories. If the fog ever lifts, WH is going to have some very bad days. Whereas for me, the worst is behind me. Ok, I am still on the roller coaster, but I am a long way out from D Day.

�
Actually finah, in your sitch I often wonder if it is your WW that is benefitting a lot from your breaks in Plan B. Because you do have a way with her, and she craves your stability, you act as an anchor for her.



I hope you are only joking! Ok, we would all love to get revenge on the POS, but seriously, this is enabling WW. Not to mention you deserve much better than her crumbs.

WW would likely drag out memories of any SF with you for MONTHS. In foggy land, she will equate cake eating with you still being there for her.

Nope, show her that finah respects himself enough to only be there for her if she follows the conditions set out in the Plan B letter. Don't further confuse the wayward, they are good enough at that themselves.

This quote shows the time for Plan A is long past. Plan B = Plan Finah.

�
Perhaps, in those moments I do find myself talking a lot with her actively listening, but she is so lost I find myself leading everything.
�
�
I�m in desperate need of a sarcasm font on MB.� I�d never do that.
�
Really my own thoughts on SF, it�s a shared intimate connection b/w two people who are with each other in the now.� It�s used to create an emotional depth, an emotional experience to ultimately bring each other closer to one another.
�
If the other person is involved in an EA/PA, I just don�t see how that connection continues to grow in depth when their mind is elsewhere.�
�
I recall on more than one occasion me stopping SF in the middle b/c I felt �she wasn�t there�.� This wasn�t some new issue either, pre A, her emotional availability for whatever reason�..was just not there, but this became hugely magnified post EA.� Yes HB took place but it didn�t last long as she slipped back into the fog of her EA/ potential PA.
�
In fact I think at least in the case of my WW, having SF made it worse.� Yet one of the last things she tried to hint at was that she desired SF �..but her failure to understand that the SF was actively driving us apart simply due to her yearning for a connection that was not present b/w us b/c of her A��..therefore signaling to her that�.I wasn�t the one�or something was missing.
�
I hope that makes sense.
�
One I think it�s a grave mistake to think the differences b/w male and female SF is so starkly different.
�
Women from a very young age are taught in essences to be a prude, that SF or desire for men or multiple men is wrong until you meet the �right� one.
�
Yet somehow men are held to a different standard.
�
So if a woman feels desire for another man outside of a relationship or M, instead of just chalking it up as a �man� would as basically wanting some �strange�, women tend to link those feelings with love b/c they are taught to link those feelings with love.
�
Women�s Infidelity covers this beautifully.� And while I don�t agree with everything she says.� I think every woman and man should read that book.
�
��
�
Which may very well turn out to be plan FU��not too happy with the change of plans.

Hi finah, saw you are recommending a friend, well done!

Have you got an update on where you are at?

Just curious as to whether is it Plan B, Plan D or Plan FU?

How are you Cara !!!


Everything is done, signed and divided.
�
I'm happy
�
She isn't, no surprise there.
�
I don't talk to her, see her or any of that.
�
�
Looking back I feel foolish for putting up with it for so long.
�
My first D-day was in August 2010
�
And it was just never the same after that, so many red flags throughout our entire relationship.
�
I've had over a year and a half to ponder a lot of things in my life.
�
I was hurt very much by it.� Still hurts some�and I imagine it will for a long time.
�
Never will I go back to that.� I was in a very poor relationship and I never saw it.
�
Too young and too many good women out there and I mean that last part.
�
�
I'm looking forward to finding someone else
�
�
IMO never will I ever recommend someone with no children save their marriage......file D and move on.
�
�

�
Wow, things moved quickly for you once the decision was made. Great to hear you are happy finah. And you're right, no suprise that she isn't.

�
Foolish for showing commitment to your marriage and honouring the vows you took? Think what you have learned about yourself and relationships in the process. Be proud of your efforts.

One of the thoughts that comforts me a lot is that I have learned MB practices, especially about meeting EN's. I am determined to do everything in my power that I will not have to survive an affair again. I am learning the skills to build a healthy happy relationship in the future if I choose to.

Meanwhile the wayward just blameshifts and seeks "happiness" in another, never really knowing why or what they are seeking in that other.

Good luck in moving forward finah.

just a small update, more so for me to vent a little.

A run in occurred w/ XWW at a local grocery store, I saw her as I was pulling in but honestly I figured she would high tail it out of there as soon as she saw me run into the store. She didn't.

A little anxiety ran through me as it was just a day after our wedding anniversary and I wasn't quite sure how to handle the situation if she approached me and where that conversation would ultimately go.

Regardless, I was shopping and sure enough I felt a touch on my arm and there she was. And pretty much without thinking I just turn around and glanced at her and walked away without saying anything.

It was bizarre and bound to happen I guess.

After it had a few days to digest I know I did the right thing b/c I just didn't recognize her anymore. I mean that was my XWW, but it wasn't her. Wasn't the person I had spent all that time with.

But also it did bother me a bit, I was always able to speak with her, even during the A and D process as we never had any communication issues or fights.

I just felt as if what's the point to engage in any conversation if it's over and done with.

I have thought about what I would do if she came back........... and while I think I would not give it another go........I can't say for sure b/c I was never presented that option.........

Well I feel a bit of relief today b/c yesterday I found out XWW is pregnant with POSOMS child.

And it kind of sealed the deal for me, as if I can take another huge leap in moving forward.

If anything it's disheartening to see the celebration behind it. People that I would have consider my friends at one point congratulating that giant mess.

Do people have no moral compass anymore?

I don't care who it is, you would never see me congratulate anyone, hold a party for anyone especially for two people who have openly committed adultery and have created a child out of it.

So I guess M is the next step for them? Can't wait to hear the story about how Mom and Dad met, or perhaps that will be a lie as well.

What are the stats on that working out in the long run? That can't be good lol.

And to think I warned her of this......



It does makes me think that wayward's have some sort of death wish, that they are just going to go down in flames to prove everyone that they were right in their decision......even if it destroys their life in the end.

Was OM also M at the time?

Even Dr. Harley hasn't been successful with saving affairages.

Read this.
Affairages:A must Read Dr. Harley responds himself
Affairage:Radio clips

finah, If I were around 8 years ago, I could've posted these exact same words. I actually got triggered by what I pulled out of your post. What got me through it was PBing about 40-50 mutual friends who were going back and forth between us and insisting on updating me on what was happening with them. At that time I had no knowledge of MB or the concepts, it was just pure instinct to completely remove myself from the elements that constantly caused me so much pain. It was simply survival mode. You may not think these little updates from "well intentioned" people are doing you harm, but they are.

If I were you I would ditch ANYONE who has any positive association with that impending train wreck. Believe me pal, it will do you one helluva world of good. And you deserve the peace. You've been through enough.

Oh, BTW, I don't think I've ever posted to you so, "Howdy".

Agree. Plan B the whole lot of them. Are you in Plan B while your D? How did you find out about the pregnanacy? Facebook?

Sorry for the t/j, but Wes would love to read your story and personal recovery?

BH, I've thought about it, but it's been so long now, I just don't see the point in wasting bandwidth and time when they could be better utilized by trying to help someone, somehow. I may one day, but frankly, being self employed and the primary caregiver for an Alzheimer's patient (my mother) I don't have a lot of time to write out the 25 year slow motion train wreck that my life has become.

This is funny though. I'm reminded of a little spat that I had on GJM's thread about PB and him Plan Aing himself into divorce court (this was my little golden nugget of MB wisdom/ignorance). It's pretty silly now that I think about it, but I was actually arguing against everything I had already instinctively done without the benefit of MB!

LOL! I actually had it right without the benefit of the MB playbook way back when, but then had the gall to argue against what I had already successfully employed with 2 people telling me what I had done was right without them having the benefit at that time knowing what I had done! I'm still shaking my head over just what the hell was I thinking then.

Can you define irony any better than that???

Oh, and the two I'm talking about are Mel and Scotty.

I remember reading that on GJM's thread. I like how you took responsibility and owned up.

You can tell you know MB and whenever you share a little about your past I'm always intrigued (but I go back and read threads from the very beginning because. I read so much). I was reading just today from 2002 and OS posters were exchanging email addresses and meeting in person. Now I see why the PMs are disabled on here and you can't exchange email. Love the boundaries.

I love how MB and Dr. Harley have evolved and learned from past mistakes to make this such a wonderful place for personal and marital growth.


25 years? I always think you're in your mid 30s. Any kids?

So sorry about your mom TW. That is such a tough disease. You can tell you've been through a lot.

No BH, I'm 48, although some of my posts may appear that I'm in my mid 30's. Hell, for that matter my mid teens. I'm hitting my stride a little better now, but there's an incredible amount of stress in my life right now which is why I don't post that often anymore. I tend to let the stress that I'm under influence some of the things I say, and that's wrong. It's only happened a couple of times, but that's two times too many. And, no, last night wasn't one of them and the night before wasn't one of those times either. I meant everything I said to sadsam.


Like you, having read some posts from way back, it is refreshing to see what this place truly has become. It's quite a blessing to so many out there that are in so much pain. We all know that pain.


Thank you, BH. Been through a lot, and it's only going to get worse. I was thinking this afternoon about the irony between Alzheimer's and adultery, or any other crisis for that matter. It really doesn't matter what the crisis is, but it really does ferret out who your true friends and family are and what they are made of.

I'm not liking what I'm seeing (and it's really not pretty) but that's okay. I can't waste time worrying about what everyone else does or doesn't do. Of course, the fight that may ensue when it's time to divvy up the financial spoils will certainly garner a helluva lot more attention from whomever than whomever trying to help the one person that provided those spoils.

You know what? I don't give a damn. They can have it all. I really don't give a [censored]. I know I can look in the mirror and know I did the best I could.

I can live with that.

LOL, can you tell I'm a little pissed tonight??



finah, sorry for the t/j

Let's get back to MB. I'm sorry, I just needed to vent SOMEWHERE for a second and I don't have a lot of avenues to do that venting. Sorry for the disruption. Having a tough night. My apologies.

finah, well done on some great Plan B'ing WXW in person. Plan B is clearly doing you wonders... you didn't get dragged into her mess when months ago, lets face it, you would have.

I'm sorry for the bomb drop about the pregnancy, and the fall out with people you thought you knew. Adultery sure shows people's moral compass. I have found that painful, to think I spent so many years thinking I knew people, and trusted they had my back. It shows the full effects of adultery... a betrayed is very rarely betrayed only by the wayward. That is taking me a while to come to terms with.

I think many people, particularly family of the wayward, tend to want to support the A for the sake of the child. In my sitch, a SIL told me when Gollum made his "happy" announcement, she told him if he thought he was going to get congratulations, he was wrong... and that this should be the happiest time of his life, and wasn't.

We don't know what others are telling the waywards, and frankly, we don't want to know. Some people will congratulate and are not worth our time. But there are some people who will be judging them finah. Count on it.

Who knows if an affairage is the next step? We don't, although I admit that I occasionally am curious about this too. But thinking about it doesn't do me any favours so I just think to myself "Gollum is a fool" and distract myself. Actually, I think Gollum is a fool to just about every question that might pop up. To help with processing this knowledge, educate yourself with the links BH posted about the odds. It helped me to read about this. There is part of me that takes comfort in knowing the A is doomed, even if part of me feels uncomfortable for the OC being caught in the middle.

I agree with TW, Plan B the mutal friends who are feeding this information to you. I have found the friends who have supported the A have cut contact with me, they don't tend to like hearing / seeing a betrayed's pain and I think this says a lot about them and their "friendship". Luckily, I largely had good friends, so I have ended up with the majority.

I remember commenting to my IM in the early days that I believed OW would get pregnant. I see it as the wayward's desperate need to validate the relationship, so they rush. They feel in competition on some level with the betrayed, and don't have the time or commitment to build history. They are so seflish they don't want to consider that they haven't shored up any foundation, and are bringing an innocent child into it.

Meanwhile, you have discovered MB, and when ready, are free to form a relationship, and build on it with right principles. Leave the waywards to the custody disputes...

You know on the surface, I would of said it doesn't affect me much, b/c I felt like I had a plan, a way out, whereas she didn't. But removed completely it's a whole lot clearer that even the smallest thing impedes that moving forward process.

You know I think people just go along with it........b/c it's not their life......they don't care anymore than the next person.


Clearly Gollum and XWW will have some serious hurdles to clear. The "idea" of starting a family I will admit, is fun.....even considering the horrible circumstances in which it was created, but life has a way of catching up to you........always does. In my eyes, real life, hasn't set it for them, problems that were present for the waywards that led them astray in the first place will seem pretty superficial and non-significant when it comes time to raise a child and likely being forced into a M b/c of it.

They just made a giant circle.

Their previous M wasn't good enough in their eyes so they strayed.

"They had no choice but to go outside the marriage for happiness"

So now here they are. Most likely in a unplanned pregnancy forced into another M.

With no time in b/w.

Let me know how that works out for you.


I do count on it. You know my mother and sister asked me what XWW do when you turned and walked away. And I said she kept glancing up to see where I was the entire time I was there and got in her car and I'm sure cried the whole way home.

And you know they said " it doesn't make sense "

None of this has made any sense from day one. I never understood why XWW would keep telling me ILY yet continue along that path.




I agree, the OC.......I feel for.

It was thru FB which I don't visit much and I have removed all those people.


I think this is the most interesting aspect, the dynamics behind everything. Their need for constant validation. I guess what happens when that all runs out and people no longer see them as a "new happy couple" or a "new family"

IMO that's when the cash out starts to happen.



Oh well. I feel good about where I am, I'm in a relationship that I'm happy about and life is good.