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Originally Posted by tiredwife45
I would just ask her to be radically honest. Tell her that you love her very much and only want her to what is comfortable for her. Tell her you will always love her regardless of what she decides and then ask her if she does want to go, just thought it was interesting but not comfortable with it, just making polite conversation and there is NO way that she would go. It sounds like she MIGHT have been interested but she may also have just been a good conversationalist. Make sure that she is honest with you. Remind her that you can't' be a good husband unless she is. Ask her is she would rather do something else with you instead. Tell her you just want to enjoy spending time with her.

Lovely advice!


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Originally Posted by tiredwife45
then ask her if she does want to go, just thought it was interesting but not comfortable with it, just making polite conversation and there is NO way that she would go. It sounds like she MIGHT have been interested but she may also have just been a good conversationalist. Make sure that she is honest with you. Remind her that you can't' be a good husband unless she is. Ask her is she would rather do something else with you instead. Tell her you just want to enjoy spending time with her.

I like this.

I tend to keep a convo going and ask all kinds of details, especially if I feel like the person I'm talking to can tell me something I need to know to better my life or overcome a fear (I'm all for overcoming fears-in safe environments of course).

And sometimes I get caught up in the moment and get all excited about doing a thing and then realize later once the excitement wore off that I'm not ready.

The problem I would have, if I were MrsA and got excited about going out on the boat and changed my mind after I thought about it some more, that seeing how excited MrA got about the possibility might breed in me pressure to follow through (no fault of his own, and EVEN if he tried to contain his excitement- that kind of thing often shines through).

So, while I didn�t read it like others did that you were pressuring her, I am concerned that you might pressure her by accident. I�m glad you came here to talk it out.

As to whether or not she should overcome her fear, if she really, REALLY wants to work on this I�m all for it, as long as it�s something you guys do together and (like someone above recommended) done in baby steps such as you two going alone first. I�ve really expanded my life and overcome a LOT of anxiety and anger problems this way. I can give examples if you want. But it has to be done with safe exits every step of the way, and it can only be done if it�s something SHE wants done.

Budget might be tight, but perhaps you can find a charter service that would take you two out for a little bit. Half hour. Hour. Then hour and half. Someone you are paying to drive the boat wouldn�t laugh at her or belittle her because he is at your service. And you could probably take her yourself but this way you are free to help comfort her if anxiety rises up. And then maybe up it to a 2hr dinner cruise on your next vacation. Baby steps. And always from the perspective that you are supporting her (resisting the urge to celebrate because this is something you have been desiring for so long). POJA.

Hope that helps.


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Honestly, as a wife you really struggles with radical honesty, it is what I would want my husband to say to me. Part of the reason I am not radically honest, is because I don't trust he will truly love me if I am. He will be disappointed in me. And I can't take that.. I would go with him if it would make him happy and keep him happy with me.. He loves it, he deserves it. Of course, then my love bank would be depleted. The best way a husband could reassure a wife who has trouble with that it is to reassure her of his love and that he loves her more than any hobby or anything.

Originally Posted by living_well
Originally Posted by tiredwife45
I would just ask her to be radically honest. Tell her that you love her very much and only want her to what is comfortable for her. Tell her you will always love her regardless of what she decides and then ask her if she does want to go, just thought it was interesting but not comfortable with it, just making polite conversation and there is NO way that she would go. It sounds like she MIGHT have been interested but she may also have just been a good conversationalist. Make sure that she is honest with you. Remind her that you can't' be a good husband unless she is. Ask her is she would rather do something else with you instead. Tell her you just want to enjoy spending time with her.

Lovely advice!

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Tired/Daisy,

Thank you very much for the feedback. All good points.

In all honesty I am not 100% in on the sailboat trip either. I think it would be fun but I'm not jumping up and down to go on this trip. Big water isn't really my thing and being in a boat that can tip 30% to one side makes me a bit nervous.

I do like the option of baby steps and will definitely mention this to her. We�re unfortunate in that we don�t live all that close to Lake Superior but we do live near a major river where there are plenty of sailboats. I�ll have to look into chartering one if she feels she�d like to try it before going on the big water.

So if she doesn't want to go no problemo.

Meanwhile could the darn weather warm up? Her and I would like to get out and do some golfing, walking, yard work, etc. There must be 3 feet of snow on the ground here. Sigh. Why do we live here?


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Originally Posted by tiredwife45
Part of the reason I am not radically honest, is because I don't trust he will truly love me if I am. He will be disappointed in me. And I can't take that.

Tired, have you ever been totally honest with him about this? It seems obvious to me that you have a predetermined perception of your H and that is a big DJ. He may be a perfectionist when it comes to certain areas of your lives like Domestic Support and so I�m guessing that is why you feel you can�t be honest about your flaws. To assume that isn�t going to help your R.

I love my W and I realize she isn't perfect nor am I. Far from it. We all have our little skeletons.

When it comes to being honest about her fears and flaws is my W radically honest? My W confessed to me her embarrassment of being afraid of being embarrassed. I was quite surprised by this because she has normally been very open and honest about how she�s feeling and what her fears are. And she�s had quite a few of them over the years. She�s afraid of storms, fires, drowning, she�s afraid when she�s a passenger, etc. She�s talked about her OCD. She�s confessed what I believe to be them all.

And you know what � that is great. It�s the best thing for us. I know what troubles her and it allows me to help her (if she wants my help) which is something I think I get off on doing. Mr. Fixit at times. She needs the comforting and reassuring. Her being honest about it allows me to do just that. I think she learned at an early stages in our R that I was an empathetic person.

Now when it comes to how I�m screwing up � I think she holds those things in more. I think she accepts my LBs as just a part of marriage � at least she used to. But I still see her doing whatever she can to not look like a nag. And trust me I do plenty where she could nag.

That is the one area of this program where I think she hasn�t been able to get into that principal. Radical honesty about everything and communicating my LBs to me.

Then again �. Maybe I am perfect � in her eyes. grin

I think I�m about due to ask how I�m doing and if there is anything she�d like me to work on or improve.


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Originally Posted by SugarCane
MrsA didn't bring up this conversation that went on for over an hour about sailing. It seems that the couple have friends who like to take people sailing with them, and MrA would like to go with them, with his wife.

Actually, if you read further, she did bring up the conversation -

Quote
What I find interesting is that I gave up a long time ago even asking her if she wanted to go on the boat. I am very much OK with us finding other things we like to do together � and we do find other things. So when we were out Friday with this couple and she mentioned Lake Superior and they mentioned sailing she started asking questions. I sat there just listening while she kept asking them more about where they go, how far away is the land etc.

The one thing I did tell her is that we have been on this water because we took a tour of the Apostle Islands on one of their tour boats. That boat took us out to Outer Island which is, of course, the outer most island. Nothing but a big old lake out one side of the boat and this little island on the other. I let her know that isn�t where we�d be going on any sailboat as that is where the water gets a lot more treacherous.

After that hour in talking with them she said �I wanna go!�. I looked at her with a puzzled look. She said it with such excitement. �Really?�. �Yes, you know how much I love the water. How much I love listening to the waves and the water lapping along the shore. And you know how much I love relaxing by cruising on your sister�s boat on their lake. It must be really cool to have a silent boat sailing through the water. "


Quote
How do you SO fail to see the point that his pressure should not be put on MrsA? Other people don't understand her fears, so they should try by every means to get her to do the things she is terrified of doing?

Based on the above quote from MrA, MrsA is interested in sailing. Whatever would help her feel comfortable, if it's something she wants to pursue, he should help her do.

I have my own anxieties, especially after the last 3 years.


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MrAlias #2715401 03/26/13 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by MrAlias
Meanwhile could the darn weather warm up? Her and I would like to get out and do some golfing, walking, yard work, etc. There must be 3 feet of snow on the ground here. Sigh. Why do we live here?

I was told spring in Ohio at the lake was beautiful.

What I was unaware of is that it is a beautiful Winter Wonderland!


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First off, she didn't bring up sailing, she brought up LAKE SUPERIOR. Her friends brought up sailing. And while she might have shown polite interest THEN, she clearly is not that interested in truth. That is what counts. If she doesn't want to go, she shouldn't go. If a spouse "dreads" an activity, I sure wouldn't pursue it.

A good conversationalist will show polite interest in activities that she may be not be interested in at all. I do it all the time! I call on mostly males and often have a little sports headline from the weekend's sports doings. But I have no interest in sports.

I walked away with the same feeling as Sugarcane. She was just being polite.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Originally Posted by MrAlias
Meanwhile could the darn weather warm up? Her and I would like to get out and do some golfing, walking, yard work, etc. There must be 3 feet of snow on the ground here. Sigh. Why do we live here?

What do you think malls are for, silly?? grin


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
First off, she didn't bring up sailing, she brought up LAKE SUPERIOR. Her friends brought up sailing. And while she might have shown polite interest THEN, she clearly is not that interested in truth. That is what counts. If she doesn't want to go, she shouldn't go. If a spouse "dreads" an activity, I sure wouldn't pursue it.

A good conversationalist will show polite interest in activities that she may be not be interested in at all. I do it all the time! I call on mostly males and often have a little sports headline from the weekend's sports doings. But I have no interest in sports.

I walked away with the same feeling as Sugarcane. She was just being polite.

I should help put some more context around this.

Lately my W has been commenting about how she�s tired of living in fear. She�s made the comments about �I�m getting older� and �I�m passing up on opportunities to do more, enjoy more�. It was at that time about 2 months ago or so where she had to go in for a Med checkup and she discussed this with her Dr and the Dr recommended upping her dosage. She was on a very, very low dose.

So when she was discussing and asking prompting questions Friday night I�m quite certain it was her doing what she said she wanted to do. Do some things she knows she could enjoy if she could just experience it (experiment to test the waters � pun intended).

My W isn�t one to make polite conversation when it comes to things she�s uncomfortable with. It�s in her nature to avoid those kinds of conversations. She is inquisitive about things she likes. For instance my sis went to Mexico and they saw some ruins while they were there. Well my W loves history (she�d be in heaven if we could go overseas and visit some castles). My W asked a bunch of questions regarding these ruins. No mention of how we�d get there � that part she wouldn�t want to discuss but she definitely would love to see those ruins.

Anyways I am not going to slow her down. I am sitting back and letting her take the wheel of wherever she wants to go. I�ll be there to help facilitate it if and when she says she�s comfortable with giving new things a try. And yes I WILL show my excitement so she knows how enthusiastic I am. Doesn�t mean she will or needs to sacrifice just because she sees how much I�d like it. PORH.


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Originally Posted by MelodyLane
Originally Posted by MrAlias
Meanwhile could the darn weather warm up? Her and I would like to get out and do some golfing, walking, yard work, etc. There must be 3 feet of snow on the ground here. Sigh. Why do we live here?

What do you think malls are for, silly?? grin

Here�s the thing. We�re not supposed to do anything we aren�t enthusiastic about. I really, really dread shopping with her. For a bunch of reasons.
1). My feet and back can�t tolerate standing and walking for long periods of time.
2). When she shops she roams and looks and roams and buys all kinds of things knowing she�s going to take half of it back. Which means another trip back to the shop, etc. I know what I want and want to get in and get out.
3). When she shops she gets frustrated with other shoppers who are �in her way�. That really doesn�t make it enjoyable to shop with her.
4). She�ll make me hold her purse in the lingerie section!!! ROFL.

So while I�d love to make deposits in her bank shopping is one area where her and I do it � but not with a lot of regularity. I just get in her way and I don�t enjoy it.

Even shopping for things WE want is difficult because we are so different.

Right now we�re spending a bunch of time looking at images of remodeled homes and finished basements as we�re in the process of finishing our basement off. We�re both excited about what we�re going to create and look forward to finding things to fill it with once it�s done.


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MrAlias,

totally off topic, but have you seen Houzz.com? It's like Facebook for your house, we love pinning ideas to our boards on Houzz.

t/j over



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Originally Posted by HopefulNC
MrAlias,

totally off topic, but have you seen Houzz.com? It's like Facebook for your house, we love pinning ideas to our boards on Houzz.

t/j over

YES!. We've been using that for quite some time now. I've got lists of different areas that I've pinned images to. Fireplaces, bookcases, bars, etc. Pretty cool site.

There are some beautiful homes on that site. Sure wish I was loaded!!!


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As I see it, this is coming down to Mrs. Alias' attitude and wishes.

In re: "big water" sailing, is her attitude, "I really want to try that, but I am afraid."

Or is it, "Intriguing! I can't imagine it, please describe it to me for my curiosity's sake."

Or is it, "Why on earth would anyone want to do that?"

Until Mrs. Alias properly communicates her attitude, Mr. Alias can't know how to support her.

For the record, Taffy and I spent 5 years sailing our 40' boat around North and South America - including Cape Horn. We were both scared silly quite a few times, however never did we wish we hadn't done it. I regret the things I haven't done, because of fear or embarrassment or laziness or bone-headedness, far more.


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Originally Posted by MrAlias
Originally Posted by MelodyLane
First off, she didn't bring up sailing, she brought up LAKE SUPERIOR. Her friends brought up sailing. And while she might have shown polite interest THEN, she clearly is not that interested in truth. That is what counts. If she doesn't want to go, she shouldn't go. If a spouse "dreads" an activity, I sure wouldn't pursue it.

A good conversationalist will show polite interest in activities that she may be not be interested in at all. I do it all the time! I call on mostly males and often have a little sports headline from the weekend's sports doings. But I have no interest in sports.

I walked away with the same feeling as Sugarcane. She was just being polite.

I should help put some more context around this.

Lately my W has been commenting about how she�s tired of living in fear. She�s made the comments about �I�m getting older� and �I�m passing up on opportunities to do more, enjoy more�.

I would say you have a narrow road to walk here, being encouraging and admiring of your wife's desires to accomplish new goals in life, without stepping into any areas that would be seen as pressuring, judgmental, or disrespectful.

So: after your wife tries something new, you make a value judgment about how great it was that she did it.

Before your wife tries something, don't express any value judgments at all. It's not "growth." Choosing not to try it doesn't make anyone less of a person, etc. Expressing value judgments is the key to both admiration and disrespect.

As an example, I support and admire my wife's tremendous effort over the last year and a half to lose weight, but I make sure not to express positions that would be pressuring or disrespectful.


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by MrAlias
Sure wish I was loaded!!!

I suggest wildcat oil stocks. wink


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Originally Posted by markos
I would say you have a narrow road to walk here, being encouraging and admiring of your wife's desires to accomplish new goals in life, without stepping into any areas that would be seen as pressuring, judgmental, or disrespectful.

So: after your wife tries something new, you make a value judgment about how great it was that she did it.

Before your wife tries something, don't express any value judgments at all. It's not "growth." Choosing not to try it doesn't make anyone less of a person, etc. Expressing value judgments is the key to both admiration and disrespect.

As an example, I support and admire my wife's tremendous effort over the last year and a half to lose weight, but I make sure not to express positions that would be pressuring or disrespectful.

Markos, where in the heck have you been? I see you drop in from time to time but we�ve had zero contact in the last couple of months.

Good to see you. Thanks for chiming in. I love your advise here. Super things that you bring to light about courses of action for me. I have to be cautious of my actions. Just because I know what feels right for me doesn�t mean the same thing for her. And I don�t want to lay down my expectations/hopes for her.

All I can hope for is that she�s happy and I must be wary to keep that goal in mind. What is it that she�d want from me that would make her happy. I�m sure me lecturing on the benefits of pushing oneself won�t be one of the things that make happiness happen for her.

So far I haven�t used any phrases to her in terms of �growing�, etc. So I think I�ve avoided doing that type of damage. I normally am more closed to off to pointing out where I think she can improve � not always but certainly the important, touchy areas. However I have failed in one area and that is in past behaviors of trying to educate her on the principals of this site and what I�d hope for her � and for I. Counseling released me from that poor behavior. twoxfour


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Sorry, MrA. Glad to be back. Lots of life changes going on at the moment. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

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If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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Life Changes huh? All for the good I hope.


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MrAlias #2715586 03/26/13 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MrAlias
Life Changes huh? All for the good I hope.

Couple downturns, but mostly for the good at this point. smile


If you are serious about saving your marriage, you can't get it all on this forum. You've got to listen to the Marriage Builders Radio show, every day. Install the app!

Married to my radiant trophy wife, Prisca, 19 years. Father of 8.
Attended Marriage Builders weekend in May 2010

If your wife is not on board with MB, some of my posts to other men might help you.
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