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It's normal , it like your romance novels with really good pictures.


Arguements are one sided struggles! Forget your point learn your spouses. Cheers Toaste
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Quote:

It's normal , it like your romance novels with really good pictures.




Personally, I've never liked romance novels. Can't get past the first chapter so I put them down. Give me something that's going to challenge my brain trying to figure out who killed who and why, or challenging and encouraging my own faith and walk with the Lord and I'm hooked.


Simul Justus Et Peccator
“Righteous and at the same time a sinner.”
(Martin Luther)
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Art,

Much like young girls and boys are tricked into believing the lie of "Love" is about having sex, "If you really loved me, you'd have sex with me."

And just as many young girls and boys are sucked into the lies of looking a certain way, weighing a certain amount, wearing certain clothes, being in the right career, making a certain amount of money, living in the right neighborhood.

There are many lies people believe will make them happy, but even when they attain all of those things, they find they still aren't happy so they keep looking at other lies trying to find their happiness.


Simul Justus Et Peccator
“Righteous and at the same time a sinner.”
(Martin Luther)
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So true. Those little lies from the apple are still being whispered in peoples ear.


Art Romans 7:24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin. Married to my beautiful and gracious wife 26 years 1 son 1 daughter both grown In SA recovery since July 2003 Christian faith
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Quote:

I am wondering how common it is for men to look at porn while there married or involved in a relationship? Also, how does the women approach the subject to him if he hides this?



Looking at porn is common enough among men as well as women to be considered normal in the sense of "not indicating unusual problems", whether or not one approves of porn ethically.

"Hiding" porn use implies deception, and deception is always a problem within intimate relationships.

A partner engaging in behavior about which you are morally ambivalent, and using deception to hide it from you, is a problem.

However, the MB principles, which I thoroughly support, emphasise that disrespectful demands, judgemental comments, angry outbursts etc. will be counterproductive. This is true whether or not posters on message boards share in your condemnation of your spouse's behavior.

It is important to recognise that there are many men and women who do not consider looking at porn to be intrinsically wrong or adulturous. It is important that you show respect for your spouse's perspective on this issue even as you negotiate your way towards a mutually acceptable plan- even if you consider his perspective to be flat-out wrong. Respecting only opinions with which you agree is worthless.

At the same time, the issue should be raised if it is one that bothers you.

I feel strongly that the diagnosis of sexual addiction should not be made without full assessment by a professional. Sexual addiction is currently a loose concept that can be associated with depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, deep-seated personality problems- or it can be a free-standing problem. Some more information:

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Criteria for Addictive Disorder (from here

A. Recurrent failure to resist impulses to engage in a specified behavior.

B. Increasing sense of tension immediately prior to initiating the behavior.

C. Pleasure or relief at the time of engaging in the behavior.

D. At least five of the following:

1. Frequent preoccupation with the behavior or with activity that is preparatory to the behavior.
2.Frequent engaging in the behavior to a greater extent or over a longer period than intended.
3. Repeated efforts to reduce, control, or stop the behavior.
4. A great deal to time spent in activities necessary for the behavior, engaging in the behavior, or recovering from its effects.
5. Frequent engaging in the behavior when expected to fulfill occupational, academic, domestic or social obligations.
6. Important social, occupational, or recreational activities given up or reduced because of the behavior.
7. Continuation of the behavior despite knowledge of having a persistent or recurrent social, financial, psychological, or physical problem that is caused or exacerbated by the behavior.
8. Tolerance: need to increase the intensity or frequency of the behavior in order to achieve the desired effect, or diminished effect with continued behavior of the same intensity.
9. Restlessness or irritability if unable to engage in the behavior.

E. Some symptoms of the disturbance have persisted for at least one month, or have occurred repeatedly over a longer period of time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


As you see, it is possible for someone to have problematic patterns of use, or even to be deceptive about their use, without meeting standard criteria for sexual addiction. It's probably not appropriate at this point to assume that a full sexual addiction is in place. That doesn't matter, though, in the sense that if it bothers you, it should still be addressed. Don't feel that you need a "diagnosis" to justify your discomfort.

There's been a lot of back-and-forth here as to whether or not porn use is harmful. I will say that many people have definitely been harmed by inappropriate, unhealthy porn use. At the same time, though, there are many users of porn, both men and women, who don't seem to evidence any guilt, emotional damage, or relationship problems at all as a result of its use. That should not matter to those who reject porn for religious reasons, any more than articles on the risk-to-benefit ratio of a pork-filled diet should matter to Muslims who don't eat it.

Porn is like any entertainment modality from television or videogames in the sense that whether or not one feels it to be intrinsically wrong, there can be no doubt that compulsive behavior and deception are problematic. Judging reality on the basis of entertainment media is always problematic too- these things are not specific to porn. Entertainment media simply often does not constitute a good way for youngsters or adults to learn about real people.

I guess in conclusion I'd just want to emphasise the points that I started with
- that you really should resist the temptation to approach this in a judgemental way
- that you don't need any diagnosis or anyone else agreeing with you in order for your discomfort to be important
- that you should raise the issue with your husband in a non-lovebusting way.

cheers, and good luck! Let us know how it's going...

adrian.


I love being proved wrong. Being proved wrong means that I have gained in knowledge, while being proved right is evidence of nothing more than stagnation.
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Looking at porn is not a bad thing. Men are visual and most find porn stimulating.

OTOH hiding it, or becoming addicted to it is bad.

There are alos different levels of porn.

Some levels such as Child porn are bad, always.


The opposite of love isn't hate...it's indifference
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well I will be straight up. I view internet porn on nights my wife isn't home. To tell you the truth I would have no reason to look at internet porn if I was sexually satisfied. I never used to look at porn because I was more then sexually satisfied. My wife hasn't made love to me since our wedding night 9 months ago. Previous to that it was once every 3 or 4 or 5 months. I'm a 25 year old man and my wife is 26. Being a 25 year old man I HAVE DESIRES, NEEDS AND FANTISIES that know only my imagination and right hand can fulfill. Watching porn and fantisizing about women I see in porn is the only way I can keep myself from going out and having an affair. It hard as hell sometimes too. I have and still do have many women that I work with or see at the coffee shop or sandwich shop that are very flirty and forward about there intentions. I love my wife with all my heart and I know she loves me too some extent I guess but she for what ever reason will not let me kiss her, hug her, make love to her. She is always too busy to take 5 seconds to let me hold her and tell her that "baby I love you" So I watch porn sometimes and do what I need to do. I'm not ashamed of it, I'm not sorry for doing it and I'm not affaid to admit it (But she already knows) I think It's healthier and much more respectful to watch this stuff and try and satisfy yourself then to go out and find someone to do it for you.

Geazy #64903 07/26/05 11:40 PM
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OK, but why not work to correct teh real problem? Which is why the need for SF in your relationship isn't getting met? To be frank, it's hard to imagine that SF is the *only* thing that's not working.

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'To tell you the truth I would have no reason to look at internet porn if I was sexually satisfied.'

Or is the real truth

I would have no reason to be sexually dissatisfied if I didnt look at porn?????????

THINK ABOUT IT

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Geazy that is crazy stuff. I would never have married a woman who only gave me SF once every 3 months LOL
No matter how great she was in other areas. Heck, once every other day is a huge compromise for me. Not even sure I can do that. Not sure if I want to. I ejaculate every day, whethr my wife satisfies me or not. It is just my thing. I feel, act, and am emotionally healthier if I do.
I woudl much prefer she gave me SF every day. But yes, the nights my wife doesn't want to satisfy my SF EN I will look at porn to get aroused without her. She is more than welcome to join in of course.

SF must definately not be a priority to you like it is me.

But anyhow. Read the concepts here, approach her and ask her why she is not giving you what you need. Work on the LB's. Find out what her EN's are. And make sure she knows what your LB's and EN's are. There is also a section in the articles about women with no libido towards their husband. I'd read it and have her read it.

Last edited by Tibolt; 07/27/05 01:58 AM.

The opposite of love isn't hate...it's indifference
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sorry if i sounded some what hostile. But the way women act like porn is killing marrages around the world is ludacris. I'm currently working with my wife about our own problems. Without knowing our whole story and all that we have been through is hard for you to understand why I love her some much and why I can't just leave her because of our sex life. Its been tough but were working on it. Her mother just died 6 months ago at 41 years of age from a massive heart attack. Her sister has been being abused while her mom as been sick and her step dad is a real piece of work. She is coming around and we are back to connecting emotionally right now so i'm not going to push sex.

I hear you Tibolt. Yes I need to ejaculate at least everyother day and my wife and I have watched porn together many times in the past but lately I just don't think that with her state of mind sex isn't real important to her right now. the more I think about it and the more I read about different things on this board I'm creating love busters. I'm not fulfilling her emotional needs when it comes to communication. I have no problem telling her whats wrong with me as she can't emphisize to me what is wrong with her but everyday complaints and ripes about her work and people around her have become irritable to me and I think i'm pushing her away with short shitty answers. Back to my other point is I realize the point in our lives when the sex changed. She found out her mother was sick, her sister was being verbally abused and naglected by her father and her grandfather who raised her like a father (her father abandonded her when she was 2) was diagnosed with emphazima(sorry my spelling is very weak) We then got married and bought a house. her job transfered her to a new place and all of these things are on her mind.

She is now becoming more comfortable with her new life and our communication is getting stronger and deeper by the day. I'm going to continue on the same route I have been and hope that our intimacy comes back. what do you guy and gals think.

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I spent 18 months attending weekly meetings of S-Anon. Most of the other attendees there had family members who were damaging their relationships with porn or affairs. A 50/50 split. For me, it would be a deal breaker. Flat out unacceptable behavior.

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How about this case. There was originally no porn in our marriage. After a few years, my wife suggested porn to try to spice up our marriage (X-rated drive-in, videos, etc). Several years later she decides porn is no longer OK. I still have some around and she gets upset about it.

I threw it all away about 8 years ago (with a few minor set backs). But she still doesn't trust me whenever I am on the computer by myself. She thinks I am looking for porn. This is now a major love buster for her even though I have given it up years ago!!

Why can't she trust me any more??

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Sandy,
I've given up porn because I saw how much it hurt my wife. Women just can't seem to grasp that porn isn't (at least for me it isn't) a threat to my view of her. It's hard to explain but my mind (and the male mind if I can generalize) is very compartmentalized. It can enjoy porn in one area of the brain and enjoy the wholesome attraction and love for a wife and the two never ever mix. I've never once looked at porn and said "I wish my wife looked like that". I've never once looked at porn and wished I were having sex with the girl. I can think the girl's attractive or what I'm seeing is hot but honestly, I think of girls in porns as "dirty" and "unattractive as a person". Contrast that with how I see my wife which is that I respect her and think she is wholesome and that there is only one girl in the world that is my wife and that and in itself makes her extremely special and irreplacable. So that's the reality of guys that view porn within a healthy limit. I wish more women could accept this about guys but they can't seem to understand. So the "safe", right thing to do is for the guy to swear off porn. That's what I had to do.

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I have just the opposite problem. My wife likes watching porn and wants sex everyday, sometimes more than once. Scary thing is she is still a few years away from her sexual peak. It's hard being 42 and having to perform like you're 24. Wears me out. I can draw the entire alphabet backwards with my tongue in my sleep.


Sing loud for the sunshine, pray hard for the rain.
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Reasons:

Mainly boardom. Sometimes you check your email, bank account, everything else you can think of on the internet and there's nothing else and you get tempted to just view it as "something fun".

Sometimes it's a fantacy type thing - but one that I personally would never want to do because it would hurt our relationship... like 3 somes or seeing a girl with lots of guys.

It creates an "edgy" environment. My wife and I have watched videos together before and maybe the plot is a bit "nauty" like a girl hitchiker gets with a guy that gives her a ride. It can be very intense and we in turn have really intense sex. Once again, separation of fantacy and reality exists. Half of the stuff that turns us on in the porn we would think was unethical in real life.

Nakedness is fun. I used to go over to a buddy's house and we'd be talking and he'd flip on the porn channel. Even I felt a bit uncomfortable at first with porn going on in the background. But eventually I liked how "casual" naked bodies in the background were. I imagine that's part of the attraction for guys that meet up at a strip club to talk about business. Looking at a girl naked is fun but there's another layer of dark excitement about talking casually and naked girls walk all around you as-if it's normal.

Geazy #64912 10/26/05 11:16 AM
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Geazy, I worry about you. A few people have worried that I may have an addition to sex. I'm sitting on the fence now if I do or not. I feel a STRONG drive to get off every day or every other day. But I don't fear that I'm going to cheat on my wife. And I don't need porn to fufilly fantacies. Every guy is different but be careful or you will find youself on a slippery slope.

Sad problems I've heard of...
1. Guys that eventually need porn to get arroused at all. Where the guy needs porn to even get hard for his wife.
2. Guys that "need" sex (I'm not talking about masterbation) to the point that if the wife isn't in the mood, he feels the right to cheat.
3. Guys that would preferr porn over sex with their wife.

Just be careful, ok?

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I'm new here and would like to add a woman's perspective....

Personally, I've never thought that porn belonged in a committed relationship with a healthy sex life. I have always had a healthy libido...I want to be the one that is turning my man on and getting him off and vice versa. If he wants/needs other women to fill his needs (either real or fantasy)...why wouldn't I be upset.

I also feel the same way about masturbation...it should never be a replacement. I would also be hurt if I wasn't getting satisfied sexually and found that he was beating off in private. My ex even had the view that it was for people who couldn't get any one to have sex with.

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But for a lot of husbands their wives have no interest in sex. We have sex once a year, twice in a good year. My wife has said she is happy not having sex again. She won't even talk about this issue.

Would you consider porn and masturbation OK in these types of marriages?

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Quote:

well I will be straight up. I view internet porn on nights my wife isn't home. To tell you the truth I would have no reason to look at internet porn if I was sexually satisfied. I never used to look at porn because I was more then sexually satisfied. My wife hasn't made love to me since our wedding night 9 months ago. Previous to that it was once every 3 or 4 or 5 months.




I keep reading stuff like this on this forum and it makes me crazy!

I just don't get it!

I know what is written on this site about love bank withdrawals and sex yada, yada, yada...

But this is NUTS!

SEX is MARRIAGE is SEX is MARRIAGE....ad infinitum

Why in the name of Christmas would any woman or man for that matter think they could be married and NOT HAVE SEX. It is nothing but deceptive, dishonest, misleading, arrogant, "grounds for annulment' behavior.

It is one thing if you are old and the little blue pill doesn't work for you, but going into marriage like that?
GEEZE, LOUISE!

Newlyweds? No sex since your wedding night? Nine months? After nine DAYS you should be demanding to know WHY??????????????????????

After nine days you should be saying. "If I knew you were not gonna put out, I never would have married you." I would have had it embroidered on the bed pillows!

Now nine months later your beating yourself off to porn?
No KIDDING!

Someone ought to change the marriage vows to say "to love, honor, cherish and have sex at least once a week."

I've listened to enough whining on this forum too, "whine, whine, whine, I have a very low libedo." Work those pelvic floor muscles and build up some libedo, you lazy, uncreative whiny excuse for womanhood or go join a nunnery!


Me: 56
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DD: 13 and hormonal
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Oldest son died 1994 @ age 8

Happily married 30+ years
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