I had this posted in Emotional Needs and it was suggested I repost this here. If anyone has any advice what to do next I would appreciate it as I don't think I am thinking that clearly right now as I feel numb and in shock about what is going on.

Well it has been an interesting few days. I have been rearranging finances and as suggested doing some follow up snooping.

So while my son and I were in California I find out that my wife and the "friend" had gone on a little hike, apparently a neighbour asked her why she was in the OM vehicle, and she made up some story about her car being broken down.

During this same time he (OM) had been over several nights for supper, while we were gone. This of course all in the name of friendship. I also found out that prior to our trip my wife recieved a phone call on her cell phone while were were at our friends place. She explained it was a female friend of hers calling. I find out now it was the OM calling. Hmmm. If this is friendship then why did she have to lie? Why is he calling on her cell phone?

Initially I was in denial about the EA but now I am confronted with this information and seems to me there is no denying it any longer.

How I wished you were wrong. Congratulations for all of you who persisted with me on getting it through my thick head that there was an affair going on. So now how does one trust again?

As may of you are aware there are so many emotions a person feels at a time like this, and none of them feel very good. I have a knot in my stomach the size of a basketball right now . So as you so aptly advised secure the finances, it looks like the next step will be the formality of separation. And if she wants to separate she can make the move out the door. As my grandma used to say "What doesn't kill you makes you stronger". I can only hope.

I cannot understand how my WW can reconcile her behaviour before God. It is inconcievable how this can be rationalized. Does commitment mean nothing these days? It is difficult to continue on with Plan A under these circumstances. Right now I am not sure I really feel like pursuing the relationship. This is a real kick in the teeth.

I guess I better double my efforts to find a lawyer. So far the lawyers that have been recommended to me are so busy they are not taking on any more clients. I guess things must be busy in the separation and divorce business.

Well, i am sorry you found out, but relieved you found out the truth. You can't do much to save your marriage if you don't have the facts.

You might want to have this thread moved over to the General Questions 11 forum which deals mostly with infidelity. This forum is great, but their main focus is not infidelity. You can hit notify on the bottom of any of your posts and just type in a request to move the thread.

Now, do you want to get to work on saving your marriage? Because if saving your marriage is your goal, then you don't even SPEAK about separation except to tell your wife you will not cooperate with any separation schemes.

Your wifes affair is doomed from the start. 95% of affairs crumble in the first 2 years. It will not last 2 years because the very things that made her affair possible, thoughtlessness and deceit will cause it to crumble. You can save your marriage, if you are an attractive place to land once it does crumble.

There are very effective ways to make it crumble FASTER though, and that is through exposure. Exposure is your most potent weapon because affairs thrive on secrecy. It is like turning on the lights in a crack house; it ruins the high.

Good exposure targets are parents, friends, siblings, employers, etc. Children should be told BEFORE this happens so they are prepared and braced for the lies told by the WS. We can walk you through all this.

Additionally, I would pay the OM a visit and have a come-to-Jesus with him. Let him know that you will fight for your marriage and ask him what his intentions are wtih your wife. Explain to him that he will NEVER...........EVER....set foot on your property again or you will have him arrested.

Have you checked her email for evidence yet? Did you tap the phone? I would get this all in place before you launch any nukes. GET some irrefutable evidence before you start.

you asked:




I presume you mean trust your wife (who lies) and are not talking about trust in people in general.

Trusting your wife is not the current problem.
Ending her affair is your current problem.

I recommend you do the following (pretty much simultaneously):

keep a journal
dates - times - everything you can think of - keep the journal private

secure your finances - cancel all but one credit card in your name only - take half of any joint savings and put it somewhere just in your name

DO NOT confront her further - behave with upmost civility and kindness while you continue to gather information - in other words, lower her suspicion and spy on her

find out everything you can about OM - there is a ton of spyware available and a GPS on her car is an excellent idea

and then let us know what you learned

Pep

Y'all, just so you know, his wife recently made him move into the basement and told him they are "separated" and started bringing her stud in the house for DATES. While bcboy sat in the basement. bcboy told me this was his wife's "friend." I explained to him this was her OTHER MAN and that he should never ever tolerate this man coming on his property again. [i would have escorted him to the door at the point of my pistol] He has told his wife this and quickly getting himself up to speed. He is a QUICK STUDY.

That is where we started, but you can read his other thread here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2089534#Post2089534

I need to know what my next step should be. I am just shaking right now, as I have just confronted the OM and asked him to have a little respect for our marriage. I just drove by the beach where my wife and her female friend were and I see the OM walking down the path to see her. He tells me just to say "Hello". BS to that. He says to me there is nothing going on, he can see how it looks bad but there is nothing going on. I told him to stay away from my wife, and he says no problem, but we will see.

So Melody suggested posting here so here it is. Help anyone? What now? What do I do regarding my wife? What do I do regarding me?

Thanks

bcboy, did you do some snooping and get some strong evidence like I suggested?

I think you need to expose the affair, but I believe you need to get some stronger evidence.

Let me explain why I am suggesting exposure. Affairs thrive on secrecy. Exposing an affair is like turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in a crowd to watch the crack heads. It ruins the high. Exposure is like CHEMOTHERAPY TO CANCER and ruins the fantasy aspect to the affair.

When your wife is forced to look at the disgust in the face of others, she will begin to see herself through the eyes of others.

Good exposure targets would be her parents, her siblings, your parents, close friends, the OM's parents, his children. When you expose to your family members, you will tell them you are trying to save your marriage, tell them all about the affair and ASK FOR THEIR ADVICE. When you ask for their advice, they are more likely to want to help you. It is very helpful when they speak to your wife about it.

Your children should be told of the affair FIRST.

Exposure is best done in ONE FELL SWOOP to get the maximum effect. It also prevents the affairees from pre-empting you.

I want to APPLAUD you for confronting the OM. I would suggest you do this every time he contacts your wife. Make as much trouble in his life as possible. He is a coward and a weiner who wont like havng to face his victim. He doesn't care about your wife and won't like the trouble.

HAVE YOU SNOOPED ON HER TO GET THE GOODS?

Snooping is a bit of a challenge here is why:
1) No email trail as she is not technically savy and does not have an email account. If she needs to send an email she gets our son or me to do it
2) Cell phone records are challenging as she has a prepaid phone so you do not get the call records.

The only option I have is to be aware of when they meet, like I found out tonight when he dropped in to say hello tonight. But tonight was the last straw. That is why I confronted him. I think it is about time I grew a backbone and stood up to this nonsense. I want to reconcile with my wife but I will not tolerate this any longer, even if she says to me that it will harm our relationship if I "make a big deal out of this".

As far as exposure I have told our children and close friends. We no longer have living parents. She was embarassed about me talking to them about the EA she was afraid that they would think of her as a "hussy". I told her even though she tells me it is just friendship that is how things get started. I told her she is having an emotional affair with another man.

I told her an "emotional affair" is an affair excluding sexual intimacy but including emotional intimacy. When she is sharing her thoughts and feelings with another man that damages our relationship, and I find it incredibly hurtful. I just watched the video clip on Infidelity and I agree this is the most painful thing I have ever had to face. The emotions run wild.

She repeats it is just friendship, and reminds me we are "separated" even if I am living in the house, we are "separate". She then tells me she is not working on the relationship right now, she cannot, she is having to work on herself and she needs to get healed up. She says I need to work on myself at the same time, and who knows perhaps there might be a chance of getting back together in 6 months to a year, no guarantees. (I am interpreting this to mean it is over in her mind).

So that is where it stands right now. I just wished I had a roadmap for this journey.

If you have like a virgin mobil prepaid phone its not to hard. What type of pre paid cell phone do you have?


Thats great keep that backbone growing.


If theres 'nothing' going on then she shouldnt feel like shes being called a 'hussy'. And yes that is how it starts you are right. She needs to put the effor that she is in the OM onto you. If shes able to 'be friends' with this OM then why cant she make that time.




Wow. OK she needs to get off her horse and face reality. I hope you are keeping a personal journal of all her actions with you in the home. Meaning this OM coming over etc... Because at this rate if you let her decide divorce then guess what its not in her favor. If she needs time to work on herself then she needs to be telling the OM the same BS she is giving you. I take that back she needs to NC the OM and say hey I am going to work on my M and myself. Im sure she knows how to multi-task?

Just keep getting stronger and smarter and get your ducks lined up. You are and have been exposing. Oh well what others think. The goal is to say hey we have a problem and guess what all help is needed in this.

Don't worry standard fog babble. So... did y'all file married or seperate on income taxes? I'll be its only "seperate" when its to her convenience. Next time she says we are "seperated" you need to respond with "We are married, married, married"

"Dr cure thyself" ..indeed.. The only way she can heal is to stop hurting her family and maybe she can start looking at herself in the mirror again.


Y'know .. i heard this same crap in real life.. Hell I was even told to go find someone better..


You do have a RoadMap, what articles on here have you read so far?

I have been reading many of the articles on the side bar, and I am spending 2 - 4 hours per day reading the forum (I find that very useful).
Been reading stuff on Emotional Needs - Infidelity - watched video from one of Pepper** links on Infidelity. Read information on Plan A (which I am doing) and Plan B. Was asked to move out by wife but I am staying thanks to advice from forum. She says we are separated. I tell her we are still married.

Speaking of fog I am in one myself. Since I found out she wants to separate I have been drifting in and out of a fog. I am not thinking clearly, not sleeping well, emotions all over the place.

I read on the forums to start looking after myself better so I am now:
1) Going to the gym
2) meeting friends for coffee
3) eating regularly and healthier
4) standing up for myself and stopping to be a doormat - thanks to the kind folks on MB here.

I can see why this forum is so valuable, you can read the information, get the idea, then get a sanity check and implementation ideas here. Man I think if I did not have the feedback from here I would be going crazy second guessing myself all the time. I like to get the feedback from the forum as I find it help prevent me from doing something stupid. Actually it has also helped me get moving on some issues that I was letting slide.

Regarding snooping on the phone. The cell is in Canada and is with a pay as you go provider that does not give you a call record.

Regards
BCBOY5440

First thing I would do is sleep in my bed tonight. Kick her rear into the basement. Stop letting her walk all over you!

If I had a nickel for everytime I read this excuse or a variation thereof, I'd be a rich woman. This is standard fog babble! What she means is she wants you to back off (give me space, time, etc) so she can continue her affair.

Welcome to MB, but sorry you are here.

Great! You're reading the articles here. You may even consider calling the Harley's for some coaching. I hear they are terrific in helping you get a "plan of action" established. They're a little expensive but way less than a costly divorce.

Get out of the basement! This is your home. If she wants to "separate"... let HER go to the basement. Your mantra in response to her fog babble is: I don't do divorce. I am trying to save our marriage.

Good job on confronting the OM. Is there anyone in his life that you could expose to? Have you exposed to anyone else in her life? Parents, friends, job? You don't do it to be vindictive. You do it to ask for support. You say basically that my wife is having an affair with OM and I'd like your support in trying to save my marriage (or something like that).

BTW, you've got some GREAT people posting to you. LISTEN TO THEM. They won't guide you wrong.

bcboy, I would be a broken record in response to this fog, which I believe means she thinks she can announce she is "separated" and therefore entitled to commit adutlery, no? Isn't that what she means?

Have you asked her what she believes this means? Because if she thinks she can announce you are separated and is magically entitled to commit adultery in front of you, she is wrong. SHE NEEDS TO BE TOLD THAT A) SHE IS NOT ENTITLED TO COMMIT ADULTERY AS LONG AS YOU ARE MARRIED AND B) IT WOULD BE PROFOUNDLY CRUEL FOR HER TO COMMIT ADULTERY WHILE LIVING TOGETHER.

This is a discussion I would have with her, bcboy, because this needs to be cleared up.

I would respond like a broken record:

"we are married until we are divorce. Neither is free to commit adultery."

That might address her odd statement that you are "separated" when you are so obviously living in the same house.

Have you moved back into your own room, bcboy? Have you searched her drawers for any letters, journals or cards that might give you some indication about the affair?

AT what point does one go to plan B?

I have been in plan A but I do not see any desire in my wife to restore the relationship. I do not see her wanting to cut off contact with OM. As far as NC and letter that is not even a discussion point.

At this point I am wondering why I would even want to pursue her. I cannot believe how the level of trust can be destroyed. And as many of the other posts I have read she is right on schedule for her blaming me. She is bringing up issues that happened over 25 years ago. It seems to me if someone is going that far back for reasons for their behaviour they really want out of the relationship. It is becoming clear to me that she has an emotional void in her life that I cannot fill. Who am I to think I can try and force to someone to stay when they so clearly want out.

After you have been betrayed, lied to, decieved, how do you work on a relationship when the other person has no interest in working on it? All I can see she wants is another option for herself if the A does not work out.

I think that there are forces at work that are beyond my control. She confided in a mutual friend that she thinks God placed the OM there to show her there may be someone else out there for her. How do you get to this conclusion???? I think we are beyond fog here. This situation is starting to get too (confusing/ wierd/ sick/) to make sense of.

I am committed to being honourable in my actions. At what point do you stop being honourable and become either a doormat or self deceptive that there is hope for the relationship?

Thanks for helping me through this.

bcboy:

Sorry you have found yourself in a sitch that brings you here, but you are in great company, and so many here are willing to help.

You and I are of the same age, and our wives are close. I've been married for 23 years (2nd marriage for us both). I discovered my wife's A the day after it went physical, she was having an EA for several months previously.

Like you, I had all the same questions you are now raising. The world you have known for decades has been turned inside out and upside down.

It may help you to understand and deal with your W's A if you research on the physiology of infatuation. By this I mean more than just the idea of a teenage crush. There are certain things that occur physiologically and psychologically when an infatuation is triggered. In a nutshell, it sounds like your W has become addicted to OM. If she has become infatuated, his presence and his voice now trigger a flood of neurotransmitters in her brain which bring her a euphoria that is addictive, literally. And, while under the influence of this infatuation (what is often called the "fog"), she will do and say things you never thought she was capable of before. She will lie to your face. She will deceive you. She will do most anything to maintain her relationship with OM. She will have little consideration for you.

The bad news is, that while under the influence of the infatuation, she is really only thinking of OM. She probably thinks about him constantly. There is a very high risk that her relationship will progress to a sexual one.

The good news, such as it is, is that infatuations have finite durations. Most seem to say that 6 months is a typical duration, while a few say it can last up to 2 years. But it does end. It ends because the brain cannot maintain the necessary level of production of those love hormones and neurotransmitters. For my W, it has been 5 months since PA began, and about 7 months since EA began, and she is just now acknowledging what an idiot she was.

While W is under the influence of the infatuation, there is little you can do about her and it. But, your challenge is to lay the foundation for when the infatuation subsides. This is where the Plan A comes in. By it, you show her that you can be an ideal mate, able to meet her EN's, both those you had in the past and those that are being fulfilled by OM.

When the infatuation subsides, several things can happen. Usually, the WS comes to realize the whole A was a big mistake and poor judgment, and returns to the marriage. Other times, the WS and OP cement there relationship, and develop a more enduring form of love, typical of what is shared by most married or long-term couples. The strategy of Plan A is to throw a wrench into the latter possibility, and create an attraction to you that will preclude her forming a long-term love with OM.

But it doesn't always work. Sometimes the A isn't discovered until after the infatuation has wore off, and a long-term love has developed. But, for whatever reason, if the A continues past the infatuation stage, then Plan B is probably appropriate. But, you shouldn't be too hasty to jump into Plan B, especially if the A is in its beginnings, as it sounds for your W. You should be ready to carry out a Plan A for 6 months or so, just so you don't miss the opportunity to jump back in after the infatuation wears off.

To cope with my WW's A during the Plan A, I had to get a script for anti-depressants from my doctor (they're actually for treating anxiety and panic attacks, not just depression). I needed them because the anxiety was keeping me up most nights (knowing what the 2 of them were doing) and then causing me to nod off asleep during the day, once while I was driving down the interstate at 65 mph. You might consider the same if your anxiety becomse too troublesome.

Other than that, just prepare yourself for a long and gut-wrenching rollercoaster ride. Best of luck.

More info on infatuations (layman level):
http://www.sosuave.com/articles/infatuation.htm

Nope, all very typical fog-babble, along with, "we're soul-mates" and "we were pre-destined" and, for my WW and OM, "we're kindred souls from a prior life." yeck! Yes, it is weird and confusing, but all very typical of the modus operandi of the FOG.

As discussed in my prior post, I kept my sanity and patience by attributing her behavior to her infatuation. I didn't excuse her, just like we don't excuse a drunk for causing an accident while dui. However, once I understood that she was under the influence of her infatuation, I could approach her more clinically and less personally. It helped keeping my sanity and patience.

Galoot / BCBoy,

I am around the same age and went thru a similar scenario 3-4 yrs ago. I have wondered - it seems that when one has combined life events such death of parents, change of life and the empty nester syndrome - this can create a mid life crisis which can add to an affair vulnerability. Add a predator type OM with nothing to lose, and the infatuation chemicals - you have a perfect storm in the making.

bcboy - protect yourself during this crisis, nothing wrong to lean on your adult children during this time - time for them to be counted on. You do not deserve to be treated in this manner no matter how stale the marriage had become. Do not tolerate any disrespect in your home.

you have received good advice.

Even with prepaid phones, you can set up an online account with the provider to see your call history. If your W hasn't done so already, you can set one up, usually, if you have the electronic serial number of the phone. Otherwise, if your wife has set one up, you'll have to know her password

rwinger:


That is the exact diagnosis I came to. My W turned 50 last fall (yet still quite attractive and often passes for late 30's). She had, way back when, given up her career to raise her kids, one of which of whom is now a serious disappointment. Her mother died 2 years ago, and she's shown the first signs of premenepausal. She was definately into a mid life crisis. Coupled with that was the fact I am out of town most of the time at a new job. Along comes this guy at our church who, while now very religious (at least on the surface) is a divorced, macho bad boy at heart (a latino paroled felon) (i.e., a predatory OM with nothing to lose). Like you said, a perfect storm brewing.

We are heading into empty nest syndrome this fall as son is off to college. Parents both dies in the last 5 years. She was a stay at home Mom and is disappionted with the relationship she has with her kids. She says she has been unhappy for a long time. Both oldest daughters think she has Borderline Personality Disorder and feel they have to keep her at a distance. No kidding about the perfect storm. I feel sick all the time. I just retired early from work and now this.

We are both Christians or supposed to be. How can one rationalize this behaviour is beyond me. This goes completely against what the beliefs are and breaking our vows before God. Perfect storm is right.

Thanks for the replys it is nice to get support from someone who has been there. Been to the Doctor for perscription yesterday as I am not sleeping either. I feel like I have been stabbed in the heart. And right now the way I feel is for this betrayal I may not want to continue with someone who I cannot trust.

We do share many common circumstances. Based on my lay opinion, though from lots of research, is that my W exhibits signs of narcissistic, histrionic and borderline personality disorder (mostly narcissistic). She also exhibits some form of dissociation, which in the extreme form is commonly known as split personalities. In her case, she appears to have at least two 'sides' to her personality, the bad girl side which comes out when she talks to or is with OM, and the good girl side for me. Indicative of some form of dissociation is that she often can't remember what happened when she was with or talked to OM. At the very least, she is able to 'emotionally compartmentalize', meaning that she can suppress certain emotions, feelings and memories in certain situations. Thus, when she's with OM, she doesn't think of me and doesn't feel any guilt or shame. It's like her world with me doesn't exist in her mind. Likewise, when she's with me, she doesn't think of OM, nor have any feelings of betrayal towards him.


You can't. Don't waste your time trying to rationalize it. (lord knows I have). Just attribute it to the influence of the addiction she is under. While I wouldn't call myself religous, W was brought up in a conservative christian background, so this has been totally out of character. Of course, with her narcissistic tendencies, she effectively self-rationalizes her behavior. Ironically, my W acknowledged to me that she had told OM (who professes to be a devote Catholic) that I had more morals than the two of them put together.

Hang in there, and take care of yourself.

Well the fur is really flying now. The OM called her after I confronted him about respecting our marriage and told her about the confrontation. She is steaming mad and has set up an appointment with the lawyer to formalize the separation. In some ways it is a bit of a relief no longer sitting in limbo. The emotional tension is a killer.

She wants to get the paperwork done so she can get me out of the house ASAP. She wants me to go away and let her live her life in peace. She says what I did was controlling and emotionally abusive and I need to apologize to OM because there is nothing going on. It is just a friendship. A friendship where they have movie nights together, sit around the fire together, go on a hike together, she picks up parcels for him when he has trouble going to the post office, he stops in regularly for "little things" OH NO NOTHING going on. What if the neighbours find out, this is a small neighbourhood. She says "Can't you just stuff it?" She tell me she stuffed it for years when she didn't like things I did. Hard to make corrections when you don't know the problem. Honesty is the best policy in my book. Keep things in the open and deal with them when they come up.

Oh well better get ready for the lawyer.

BC,

Your kids are grown?...

Here's a thought.

Throw her sorry @SS the "F" out!

File before she can.

Go to immediate Plan B...

(Maybe a bit harsh?)

Sorry, but I still believe if I'd done this prior to FWW's EA becoming a PA, it would have ended. Abruptly...

...you said a mouthful, brother.

Sorry for what you are going thru because it stinks. My wife also said just friends and yes she was having sex with him the whole time.

Now why don't you get a lawyer and play some hard ball. Get her butt out of the house instead of yours. Play some offense and stop playing defense.

She is not in any fog...she is choosing to abuse you. It is sad that not wanting your wife to boff another guy is controling behavior and in her view abusive.

You need a tough lawyer and stop being a doormat. Since she wants you out of the house get her out. If you have not told the kids please let them know what is going on. Don't just let her railroad you. You can always protect yourself and if she changes you can always still save your marriage.

Maybe when she sees what she will lose she will change her attitude. But stop sitting back. Play some offense. Good luck I am so sorry for what you are going thru.

Dont you mean for her to move out?? Shes the one who is in the A while M to you. She is in the wrong. Not YOU. YOU do not have to leave.


YOU have nothing to apologize for. She is suppose to do those things with you, her husband.

Call your lawyer tomorrow and get her first. I hope you have been getting your ducks in a row for this? She needs to pull her head out of her A$#. YOU need to get even a stronger backbone and start defending you, defending your M.

In BC Canada from what I understand the assets get split 50 - 50 so there is not much benefit in getting a tough lawyer. At this point I just want out and try to find a place to recover from this craziness. As far as I am concerned she can have the house as part of her 50% of the assets. She will soon learn that a house and property does not take care of itself.

I have to look after myself now and frankly I need a new start. We moved to this new place 2 years ago, I was trying to keep her happy and this was going to be a fresh start. Good luck with that one.

I wish her well, as I don't think this train wreck will recover after listening to her today. As some of the people close to me have said lately "this is getting too crazy, get out of there before it turns bizarre".

It is still very hard to deal with the sadness and grief and sense of loss.

Thanks for the support. I have really needed the sanity checks as once you get into this turmoil it is easy to loose perspective and objectivity. When the fog rolls in from WW it is hard to get ones bearings.

So thats it, you are going to throw in the towel? Something you wanted help with so bad you are going to let it go down the drain?

Answer this, regardless what your WW is saying do you deep down in your heart feel your M is fixable?

Do you want the M to work?

I do want to the M to work. If I do not participate in the separation then it will be forced upon me via the legal process.

Right now I wished I could answer your question about the marriage being fixable. I am very pessimisstic about it right now. I have had several chats with my wife today, as she is really really really upset that I confronted the OM- denials, nothing going on etc.. (whatever I know she is lying because of some of the things she has confided to others)

She has set up the lawyers appointment and she is proceeding with our without me - no question. She keeps repeating she has been hurt. She tells me that by me confronting the OM that is an example of controlling and emotional abuse. How dare I. She wants me to apologize. No way I say, I know what he is doing and I am confident in that. I no longer believe what she says and have lost trust in her.

I am not a quitter but she has made it abundantly clear that there is no M to work on at this time.

You can't force someone to stay when the are determined to go. At least not to my understanding, What would you suggest?

If you do not participate in your own demise it is less likely to happen. The affair has a much greater chance of crumbling than your marriage. Believe me, it is doomed. If you help her destroy your marriage, your marriage will be .........destroyed. Waywards are usually all smoke and mirrors and will back down as soon as they see you won't bend over and make it easy for them to destroy you.

You will be making it easy for her to kick you out of your own home and bring in your replacement. A replacement that is very temporary. Her affair will not last, bcboy. It will soon crumble. Do you want to give up your long marriage for a temporary affair? Why contribute to your own demise? If they want to destroy you, why would you make it EASY?

As the man of your family, it should be VERY HARD to destroy your family. Your family needs your most ARDENT DEFENSE right now, not for you to run!

Instead, tell her you WONT cooperate. If she wants to kick you out, make her work for it. She can't just kick you out of your own house. If she files, then you get the meanest junkyard dog lawyer and file to have her removed since she is having an affair. Have the OM subponaed to court to testify about his adultery with your wife.

Don't lie down in the face of evil, friend. Your family is under assault. Now is the time to get to work, not to RUN. Don't hand your wife and your home over to an adutlerous interloper. You have been married for a long time. Why just give up so easily when there is strong chance you can save your marriage?

Odds are in your favor of saving your marriage. And let me tell you why. Her affair is doomed. 95% of affairs FAIL because the very traits that make them possible: dishonesty, thoughtlessness, cruelty quickly find their way into the affair.

My point is that you should not make any decisions about your marriage based on a very TEMPORARY AFFAIR. Your wife can come back from the twilight zone. It happens all the time around here. We have many recovered marriages here.


Do you see how effective your confrontation with the OM was? It caused huge conflict and upset in the affair. This is why you should continue to yank his chain every time you are aware that he contacts your wife. Continue to confront him and ask him to leave your marriage alone. He could never have a future with your wife because he would be eternally hated by your children for his part in ruining your family. <-----tell him this. Tell him you will fight for your marriage and he had better be prepared for the fight of his life.

Most OM are nothing more than weasels and cowards, so this can scare the heck out them. It is discouraging at the very least.


blah,blah,blah,blah.... so she set up an "appointment" in order to SCARE YOU from interfering in her affair. SO WHAT? SHE IS JUST TRYING TO SHUT YOU UP! Half the time they never follow through. Talk is CHEAP.

You can also "set up an appointment" with lawyers to talk about her adulterous affair with scumbum. And you can also get an attorney who DRAGS THINGS OUT as long as possible until her affair crumbles.

Don't let her scare you, my friend. You have the truth on your side. And more importantly, GUESS WHOSE SIDE GOD IS ON??


And there will be no marriage FOR SURE if you hand this over to the OM and ALLOW HIM TO WIN. Your wife is clear about NOTHING because she is intoxicated by an adulterous affair. She is DRUNK on adultery the same as a drunk gets falling down drunk on vodka. Your job is to disrupt this affair to the point that she gives up the VODKA and sobers up. Once the vodka [OM] is gone, she will most likely be open to working on the marriage.

Your job is to do your best in the meantime to ruin her affair and make it as hard as possible for her to destroy your marriage. Remember, her affair is TEMPORARY, so your job is to PREVENT any permanent damage.

Now, you may end up separated in the long term, but there is much you can do to set the stage so that a) it is not easy for her to replace you with OM and b) you are positioned to rebuild your marriage once her affair crumbles.

And please continue to expose the affair to everyone. It has very effective and is causing great conflict in their affair. Tell your close friends and neighbors and ask their advice. When you do that, they tend to want to help.

And most of all, don't despair. Don't let the SMOKE AND MIRRORS of the infidels scare you. It is just empty noise designed to scare you.

This is going to be HARD, I won't lie to you. But it can never be easy when your marriage is under assault. And you are under assault. But you CAN WIN, because you have a PLAN, and they have nothing. They have nothing but very temporary feelings in a relationship that is DOOMED. DOOMED. They are doomed.

bcboy, do you have the book Surviving an Affair by Willard Harley? If not, please get it and read it so you will understand what you are dealing with here. The things we are telling you will make much more sense if you read that.

Plan A is the plan that Dr Harley recommends before separation in order to achieve the best possible outcome. There are no guarantees, but often this will effectively kill an affair and bring a marriage to recovery. Here is an outline:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband


The carrot of Plan A

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.


The stick of Plan A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.

situation: bcboy moves out and gets himself an apartment. OM moves in, because your WW is now "separated" and under the odd notion that adultery is therefore justified.

Guess who pays the mortgage for WW and OM?

Guess who has to get a court order to come in the house and get his shoes? In the house he pays the mortgage on?

Guess who has to ASK the OM if he can come in and get his drill out of the basement? In the basement in the house on which you make the mortgage payment...

Do you really want to facilitate the affair by moving out? Because that is all you will be doing. You will be handing your life over to the OM.

You will be surrendering without a SHOT FIRED. Are you French?

bc,

Melody is right. Listen and re read her posts she just posted to you.

You can gain trust back so thats a small issue right now. What is to work on getting is the M back her out of the fog.

I hear what you are saying Melody and I am trying to do plan A and drag things out. I am remaining non confrontational by being non-commital. WW "Are you going to be moving out in August, This is not working with you being here" BS (me) " I don't know yet"

WW " I am not working on this marriage, what you did by yelling at the OM was controlling emotional abuse, you crossed the line, you are trying to isolate me from having friends, this is abusive behaviour."

BS " I did not yell at him - I asked him to respect our marriage and to stay away"

WW " You need to work on yourself and I will work on myself, we are separated"

BS "You may be separated but WE are still married, you should be flattered that I value you so much that I want to protect the marriage"

WW " There is no marriage, we are separated, I have set up an appoinment with the Lawyer to formalize the separation".

WW " You being here is not working for me. You need to move out. I have called several apartments for you here they are"

BS " We still have several things to resolve"

WW "If you don't move out I will, I need you to be gone"

Here are the factors I am dealing with"
1)She is relentless in her persistance to separate. Not willing to work on marriage.
2)There is also some very strong evidence she has Borderline Personality Disorder.
3)I can see where she is working hard to make me mad (which is not going to happen) so she can get me out of the house with a restraining order (this is my suspicion anyway).
4)It is very stressful living under these conditions, I am getting emotionally exhauted. My doctor is concerned about my health and how this situation is impacting me.
5) Initially she was suggesting there my be opportunity of reconcilling, she has now confided in a friend of ours that there is no way she will consider that after me talking to the OM about staying away. "He crossed the line"
6) She can pursue a separation without cooperation
7) My impression is the legal battle can be long, messy and stressful.
8) She has expressed she has been unhappy for years and I just don't get what she needs. She was willing but no longer.

I seems the philosophy here seems to be reconcilliation at all costs, but you can't push a string. She wants out and that is it.

All I know is Plan B can't be too far off.

Next time she tells you if you don't move out, she will, tell her to start packing. Don't leave your home. Let her leave.

At what point does one go into plan B?

I am very reluctant to ever trust her again since I have discovered she has been sneaky, lied to me, deceptive, manipulative etc.

What do you do about a personality disorder?

At what point do you say enough?

WW "Are you going to be moving out in August, This is not working with you being here"

BCBOY: No thank you

WW " I am not working on this marriage, what you did by yelling at the OM was controlling emotional abuse, you crossed the line, you are trying to isolate me from having friends, this is abusive behaviour."

BCB: ok

WW " You need to work on yourself and I will work on myself, we are separated"

BCB: if we are "separated" then there is no need to move, right?


WW " There is no marriage, we are separated, I have set up an appoinment with the Lawyer to formalize the separation".

BCB: ok. i think i will just stay here in that case.

WW " You being here is not working for me. You need to move out. I have called several apartments for you here they are"

BCB: thanks but there is no need for me to move if we are already separated. i have no plans on going anywhere.

WW "If you don't move out I will, I need you to be gone"

BCB: ok, i would hate to see you go, but I surely cannot stop you


Expected. And will stay that way until her affair crumbles. As her affair crumbles she will be up and down and down and up. Her mood will change from day to day


Then she should get psychiatric care. That doesn't mean you should abandon her to her adulterous affair. If she is BPD, then she needs you there even more.


This is a very good awareness. I would have a plan in place when you feel your ire raising. Once she realizes she can't bait you into fights, she will give up.


We know all about that. I would suggest getting on AD's, working out, going to church. It is stressful. But it is also stressful to be tossed out of your home and to watch the OM take your place while you pay the mortgage. You can't save your marriage if you aren't there, bcboy.


All the drunken ramblings of a falling down drunk who had her booze supply threatened. Would you take the words of a falling down drunk seriously? Her talk means nothing. This is angry crap talk of an addict.


Right. So make her work for it. If she is going to destroy your marriage, MAKE HER WORK FOR EVERY THING.

And the next time she says "I want a separation!!!" tell her: "but I thought we were already separated?"


So will be divorce. But you are giving up before one shot is fired. You aren't even on the field of battle and you are anxious to surrender. So far, your wife is ALL TALK. And TALK IS CHEAP.

You have seen no papers, no nothing. just alot of blah, blah, blah, blah.. blown by a fogged out adulterer. We have seem 10x worse than this come back from the dead. Most of them threaten legal action and never follow through.


No, she is not willing TODAY because she is addicted to the OM. ALL waywards say that they have been "unhappy for years. " It is a CLASSIC TRAIT called REWRITING HISTORY. They are rewriting history in order to justify the affair.


Why do you think we have that philosphy and you don't? Ask yourself why the people who been here for years - most of whom have recovered marriages - have hope and you don't? Do you think we are all gullible fools who live on false hope? Or could it be that we are experienced at this and you are not?

No, we don't believe in reconcilation at all costs. Sometimes divorce is success. sometimes reconciliation should never be tried. But to just throw away a 30 yr marriage wihtout trying? ummm no Your wife is saying the EXACT SAME THINGS THAT ALL WAYWARDS SAY. Your wife is no different from the many waywards who are in fully recovered marriages today. What she is saying is the RULE, not the EXCEPTION. Read these other threads!

We believe in trying FIRST. We have seen many miracles here. And you are surrendering before you have even arrived at the battle field because the infidels are blowing smoke!! She no more knows what she wants than any other falling down drunk.

your situation is far from hopeless, bcboy. And i would never give someone false hope. Just ask the others here.

Are you french?

you try and get her the help she needs.

BCBOY, for the love of all that is holy, DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOME!! (Yes, Im shouting, trying to get your attention.)

Do you not realize you would be REWARDING your wife's adultery? Can you live with your conscience if you do that? Even if you end up divorced (which you have every right to choose) surely you don't want to encourage and condone this sin?

If someone must go, make HER move out. Do feel free to sell your home later of course, if this all goes down the drain, and move for a fresh start, but at this point, your job as a good husband is to make this adultery as painful for her as possible. Help her learn consequences.

If she has been unhappy with you, wouldn't the logical solution be to turn that around? Why do you think that isn't her answer? Why isn't she trying to FIX THAT?

I will tell you why...

She doesn't want to work on it because....

THAT IS NOT THE REAL REASON SHE WANTS YOU OUT...

want to guess the real reason??

I will give you 3 guesses:

1. OM
2. OM
3. OM

You know what just occurred to me?

I BET THE OM DUMPED HER!

And that is why she is so angry and so anxious to give you the boot!! You delivered a huge blow to her affair, I bet!

He probably told her that he will have nothing to do with her UNTIL YOU LEAVE!!

I bet you have the affair on the run and you don't even realize it!!

That makes total sense.

Thanks guys. I will try to see if what you say is what happened. I have been in such a fog myself over this whole thing I have not been terribly perceptive. I will have see if I can sniff this out over the next week.

BC,

I am the same age as you are and have been M a bit longer. I think that you are making knee-jerk reactions here. DO NOT make any decisions now about your M. You are too emotional to make any kind of long term decision about this.

You have 30+ years and have raised children together. You did all of your "firsts" together - child, house, etc. Think about it - no one else can replace your WW and she can't replace you either. No one else can offer that to either one of you. A D will only wipe out everything that you have spent a lifetime together building! Atty fees, splitting assets, etc. will wipe out your retirement.

For sure though, DO NOT let her kick you out. Grow some round ones man, and be a man!! Stand up to her or she will never respect you. Women want a man they can respect. Don't be a wimp. My WH got ticked too when I called the OP, opened his mail, checked his cell phone records etc. So what? There isn't anything you can do at this point to make it worse. She is going to continue to say and do those things whether you stand up for yourself or not.

Her perceived personality disorder is probably the addiction. I've heard many men say that they think their wives lost their minds when they were in the middle of an A.

You will be sorry down the road if you don't do everything possible to save your M. 30+ years - you owe it to yourself and your WW to keep her from making the biggest mistake of her life.

Now grow those round ones and start taking charge of your family and your future.

BC: So is an affair and trying to make me move out of my home.

BC: So let's see if we can work together.
BC: I don't discuss divorce, only marriage. Have your lawyer call my lawyer.

Everything is from the script of the wayward.

My wife when confronted said she wanted a divorce.

When she found out I'd told her sister, she said I was controlling.

When she found out I had told her step mother, she said I was ruining her life.

When she found out I had told our pastor and her best friend, she said she was thinking about reconciling but NOW we were through.

She said I should leave.

She said she was leaving. (She had someplace she could live right next door to OM and since HIS wife had already separated from him she probably could have moved right in there.)

That was all 3 months before our 33rd anniversary.

Next month we will be married for 35 years.

She's still here.

I'm still here.

We're still married.

We're working together to get our finances in order for retirement TOGETHER.

It was the hardest thing I have ever done, but I made it and a lot of that was because of what I found here.

I read SAA and FIL/SIL.

I read everything I could find on adultery.

I studied the Basic Concepts of Dr Harley and made sure I understood them.

I worked on myself.

I changed my half and met her ENs.

I identified my love busters and put them to death as much as possible.

I kept meeting her ENs until she began to feel it.

A few months after D-day she sent me an email thanking me for not letting her go...

Mark

bcboy, what did the OM say to you? What did you say to him?

What might have happened is that your W has been telling the OM that you are "separating" voluntarily and are getting divorced, therefore, she is available for dating. She might have been telling him you were all cooperative and didn't mind if she dated other ppl. It is TYPICAL that a WS will lie to the OP like that.

So, when you confronted the OM, you ruined her gig and revealed her as a liar. He might have even dumped her, telling her that he would have nothing to do with her until you are [REALLY] separated.

Your confrontation of the OM apparently hit the mark in a HUGE WAY and this is a VERY GOOD THING. Her reaction tells me that you hit the right mark, so you should keep the pressure up on him. If you have any inkling he sees her again, go have another come-to-Jesus with him. Tell him you are not getting divorced, are not separating and will fight for your marriage.

Tell him it WOULD NOT BE WISE TO COME ON YOUR PROPERTY. Disappointment may be his lot in life when you call the police to have him removed for criminal trespass. I suspect you are not Texan or I would tell you to .... NEVER MIND.

Well tonight was a big blow out from W. She was furious as I had exposed the EA and the proposed separation to an older couple we have been in a Bible study with. She is furious that I had the audacity to embaress her , making her look like a harlot when nothing was going on. I have just put the nail in the coffin of our marriage and she hate my guts.

She has not been honest with me, I told her that, and she said she is not honest because she needs to protect herself emotionally. I repeated that she was having an Emotional Affair.

She did tell me the OM talked to her after I confronted him and he said they should cool things down. (He has expressed interest in keeping picking up the friendship later on. Gag me) I said so you admit then you were having an EA. "No!! This is just friendship. He has many female friends. I am lonely and have been for some time you have been distant" By you doing what you did is driving me away from you into the arms of another man. But what you did was wrong and you need to apologize to OM as we are separated. You don't seem to get it. I have a Christian counsellor and he is recommending we separate.

I told her I do not want to separate. You want to separate. You are still married.

She tells me she did not believe in Divorce, but she has been very unhappy in the M and she left emotionally 5 years ago. She met with her councellor over her decision to separate.
the councillor told her God is a loving Father and he wants us to be happy.

If I don't go then she will as I am still in the house and she wants to separate. She told me we were separating 2 months ago and is finding it too difficult with me in the house. Right now with the level of mistrust and lies she has generated I am growing weary of the fight.

I know I have been clumbsy in our relationship. I have tried to meed her needs but I always seemed to come up short. I did not think that telling a man to respect our marriage was emotional abuse and control. She is saying I am controlling and this is just another example. I thought I was just trying to save a marriage.

She say you I will be getting all kinds of sympathy because she is the one who decided to separate. She also told me that she does not trust me, but the OM is trustworthy. (And she thinks there is no EA going on here)

I takes two to break down a marriage. How can I determine if I am controlling or emotionally abusive? This is the most heart breaking, exhausting, mind numbing thing I have ever done.

BCBOY, bless your heart, unless there is a lot more to your history, your wife is GASLIGHTING you into thinking you're emotionally abusive. Asking her boyfriend not to come catting around in YOUR home, is not abusive, but honorable of you.

But just for the sake of full disclosre, give us some other examples of what you've done that she thinks ranks as abusive. Also, have you given her any reason that you can think of, to say you aren't trustworthy, or is it just that she can't trust you to keep her nasty little secret?

And about W's counselor, either a quack, or they have not heard about the affair, only some trumped up version of you being a raging maniac. No good Christian counselor would ever suggest separating some a wayward could continue an affair. I would bet money that counselor is being lied to. See, it's good that you are exposing before she runs in front and paints a dishonest picture of you to everyone.

I still think it's laughable that your wife claims you are already separated when you live in your home, and she does too. What a stupid trick. Do you see how out of touch her affair is making her?

I can put on a crown and call myself the Queen of England, but that doesn't make it so.

Anyhow, fill us in a bit. Let's hear a few more honest examples of your actions or reactions. Your friends here will tell you bluntly whether you have abuse issues.

And just let me reiterate, do NOT move out, do not sign any papers, and whatever you do, secure your finances and don't let her have access to any savings, to your paycheck, or any credit cards with your name on them.

A moral man should not have to finance his wife's adultery.

BC,

Please listen to the people here. They ALL say things like your WW is saying. "were just friends" is from the Affair 101 book. It's the first thing they learn. They HAVE to find a way to blame you for what they are doing. It gives them the justification to continue.

DO NOT MOVE OUT OF YOUR HOUSE. She wants to seperate - let her move out.

bcb, my good friend, you are being gaslighted. Your wife is reacting in anger that you are defending yourself and interfering in her affair. It is very important that you STICK TO THE PATH and don't let her smoke and mirrors scare you off the path.

I would start first by telling her you have no desire to move out and won't be going anywhere. And since you are already "separated" according to her then there is no reason to go anywhere. Make it CLEAR TO HER that you will not move.

She needs to fully understand that you are not going to lie down and allow her to destroy your marriage.

bcb, the thing you are not understanding is that this is NOT YOUR WIFE. Do you even recognize this crazy, bitter woman? That is because her affair has the same effect on her as crack has on the mind of a crack addict. The addict is crazy and will say and do anything to protect their CRACK. Your wife is HIGH on the addiction of her adultery. Plain and simple.

This is not your wife. But you can have your wife back if she ends her affair and withdraws. That is why we are telling you to do everything in your power to disrupt her affair, ie: exposure, confrontation, refusal to facilitate the affair.

So when she rants and raves this fogbabble to you, look at her and recognize that you are dealing with a CRACKHEAD who is high on CRACK and DO NOT allow yourself to react emotionally to her hurtful statements.

Can you do that?

You quit dat lyin, I am the Queen of England!!

Does God approve of ADULTERY? bcb, what she is doing is ADULTERY and adulterers HATE THAT WORD, especially those with a Christian background. I bet ya good money she has NEVER told her Christian counselor the real reason she wants to "separate," her ADULTERY.

I would strongly suggest that you start using the word ADULTERY when you discuss this with her. She will be furious but she desperately needs to hear ACCURATE descriptions being applied to her behavior. She has deluded herself into believing that God just wants her to be "happy" completely ignoring the fact that GOD HATES ADULTERY.

I would also stop saying "emotional affair" and say "ADULTEROUS AFFAIR" when you expose. Just leave it at that. An affair is an affair.

And that is the only reason she wants you out, bcb. It is all about her affair.

Hi bcb-

I'm just looking around for the "Wayward Spouse" script because your WW is following it like a football play book.


I just want to comment on this one statement. It is used frequently by those who believe in God to justify their behavior. And it does not line up with what God has said in His word, which is where we find His truth that hasn't been watered down to fit the desires of WS's or stupid counselors-if that's what the IC really did say. Waywards have a way of hearing what they want to hear.


This "God wants me to be happy" view makes God like a permissive parent who lets His kids get away with naughty behavior because it makes them "happy". And it is not supported by God's word.

What God actually says in His word is that He wants us to have "abundant life" and He set up boundaries-just like a good parent-to help us have that life.

Think about the 10 commandments. They aren't a bunch of "don't do this." The first four are about how His people should honor Him and worship Him. The 5th one is about how to have good family relationships. And the last 5 are how to treat other people, because if you really want to get along with others, you shouldn't kill them; sleep with their spouse; lie about them; steal their stuff; or be envious of their success. Pretty practical IMHO

But, because He is a loving God who has given us the free will to choose to follow His better path, or our own selfish way, we can choose the selfish path and its consequences. Even King David-a "man after God's own heart"-had to suffer the consequences for his A and subsequent cover-up of it.

Don't listen to her anger. Your M can survive her being p!$$@&. It can't survive having another person in it.

Hang in there.

bcboy, do y'all belong to a church? If so, I would consult with your pastor and ask him to intervene. They can often be very influential. Most churches have a defined Biblical process when a member is in an active state of sin.

Years ago I was having difficulty with my anger. I took anger management and changed the way I dealt with anger. Instead of reacting right away I now stop, say and do nothing. I think about what has happened, if I find I am feeling upset or angry I then will wait for a period of time for that to pass so I do not display any outbursts of anger. Now she says I am withholding and that is a form of control and mental abuse.

If my wife begins speaking to me in an upset or agitated manner and I bring this to her attention that I find it hard to discuss an issue when she is sounding so angry. Can we talk about it calmly. She tells me this is controlling and abusive behaviour because she feels she does not have the right to bring up a grievance.

She is self admittedly emotional in her decision making process. She describes me as rational and analytical. If she brings up an issue and I start to look at the options I tend to be methodical in my approach as I will link one event or circumstance to the next in a logical fashion. She does not like this as she feels I am discrediting how she feels about the issue. She tells me I am rational but not based in reality. She says you are like a lawyer who builds a case. This is emotional abuse. I think she feels treatened when I question how she arrived at the conclusion she did. She is usually quite good at making decisions based on "gut" feel. I am not so I need to connect the dots before I can buy in. This approach makes her upset. She feels I should know intuitively the right thing to do.

My wife has always had issues with boundaries. I used to say we lived in a house with not screens on the windows, the bugs or issues can fly in anytime they want. We had some friends who were demanding a lot of her, she cannot say no. Their demands were impacting our family, they had expectations and were imposing on us. I had to step in and tell them that this was not a good time for us and perhaps we could look at a later time. My wife got very embarassed by this, she will do anything to make things look good on the surface and finds it very very difficult to think she has let someone down. I felt we had the option to say no and stood up and said no. She felt I was being controlling. The children were being impacted negatively by these people as well. When she said lets just do it and get it over with, and I said we had the right to say no, I am tired of these people imposing on us like this, she felt I was not respecting her opionion. By me changing the arrangements I was not being respectful of her, I was being controlling and mentally abusive. However at least the kids said thanks to me for making the changes.

She feels I have been disrespectful. She was expressing how she felt about how controlling I had been over this situation. I said that is ridiculous. We do have the right to say no in this circumstance, it was not a good time, it was an imposition, we did not have to cancel the plans with other friends even though they would understand. By me confronting her thinking I was being disrespectful. At the time I felt why she was upset was she needs to feel accepted and by me saying no I was introducing the opportunity for her to feel rejected by this couple. I felt I just had to do what she decieded. I told her we need to agree on how we are spending our time, I want to be consulted before we commit to something. She said she needed to make a decision and I was not availble at the time. I said then delay the decision. She felt I was not respecting her decision.

Those are some of the examples. I am not blaming my wife. I recognize I have not met her emotional needs. That is why she is looking out side of the marriage.

There are many factors at play here. And that is what makes it confusing to deal with for me. This situation is ripping my guts out.

To clarify about the Christian counsellor. I got some clarification on what he said. My wife met with him and told him she had made a decision to separate from me. She was struggling with making that decision because of her beliefs. He said he was not surprised. He said God is a loving parent. More in a vein of God understands her pain. I was not accurate when I said he recommended separation.

Regarding church. We just moved a year ago and have not really attended a church here. We were attending a fellowship group, but she did not feel real comfortable there. One of the members of the group asked her how her walk with the Lord was, and I think she felt somewhat threatened. She said "they do not know where I have been and how low I have felt. I do not feel I can share with that group as they are quite rigid. I need to get healed up and I don't need to be judged."

Let me know if you need more

I have not used the word adultery because I do not believe PA has taken place. The EA is just as painful though

I should also mention that she told me she is lonely and has been for some time. I have been distant and I have driven her out of the marriage.

I don't think she is willing to do the NC letter. I think she is going to carry on with this OM at some point in time. She tells me she is at the point where she does not care what others think about her. She is prepared for that. She needs time to heal. She cannot heal with me around.

I am not leaving the house. And that is driving her nuts. However I am not sure how much longer I can live under the stress and tension that is here. This is one very poor way to live.

Only if your crown is bigger than mine!!

Thank you for taking time to give a very detailed description of your interactions with your wife. What you have described is NOT emotional abuse, nor overly controlling by my definition. Hopefully others will weigh in with their opinions.

It looks to me as if your wife is taking a difference in communication styles and trying to gaslight you into believing that because you don't say and act exactly like she likes, that you are abusive and controlling. It is a common trick, and a nasty one.

BCBOY, your WW is responsible for her affair. Do not try to own the blame for her. YES, you may have contributed to an atmosphere in which she found that choice easy, but believe me, she DID have a choice. There are so many acceptable ways a person can choose to deal with a situation. Finding a boyfriend is not one of those ways. She is disrespecting you in the worst way.

You seem like you are willing to own up to YOUR failures, and that is a good thing. However trying to own your wife's too, is not healthy for either of you.

Please do not let her wear you down. I am going to be praying that you find the strength to fight this battle in such a way that she sees she cannot bully you. SHE is the one who is guilty of abusing you emotionally by trying to manipulate and control you to allow and even fund her adultery. That is so very cruel.

Thank you for your response. I also recognize that I am describing things from my vantage point. If I have a problem I want to do something about it.

I had one post from medc. He sounds like he has knowledge on this issue. I would like to find out what steps I need to take to find out if I am or not. I don't think I am. But I want to make sure.

This is where it gets confusing. Other self help books want you to take control.

Funny that you mention about me taking responsibility of her actions as well. I just had a friend tell me the same thing. He said when are you going to start looking after you rather than everyone else.

My wife has complained that she thinks I am self centered and controlling so I have been working hard not to be that way. Don't think it has worked as she still feels that way. I guess I had better start looking after myself now. I don't think anyone else is going to.

bcboy, you are not abusive at all. What you describe is a stunt that many selfish women pull to get their way. And it works on most men! Your wife defines NOT GETTING HER WAY as "abusive" which is a pretty typical tactic of a wayward wife.

And when you request that your wishes be respected in the decision making process she calls it "controlling." I would wager that about EVERY betrayed husband on this forum has been accused of being "controlling" when he tries to protect himself or have his wishes taken into account.

There is nothing "abusive" about asking to have your wishes taken into account. She is being abusive by running roughshod over you and then playing the ABUSE CARD when you object.


REmember, in her mind it works to her ADVANTAGE to look for every opportunity to demonize you, becuase that is how a WW justifies her affair. As you have already noticed, and even your friend noticed, she will look for any way to do this and will exaggerate any act, no matter how minor, out of all proportion.

You can see that in reality, it is SHE who is selfish and controlling. Affairs are the epitomy enitlemen and self will run riot. Trying to kick you out of your own home and replace you with OM is very "controlling." She is gaslighting you, bcboy.

Thanks for letting me vent and being a sounding board.

It seems logical to me that I am still a participant in causing the marriage to break down. I am willing to change what needs to change but I am not sure what or how just yet.

My wife is not willing to commit to NC. The OM is keeping his distance right now as far as I know. But he will be back when he sees his chance.

I think she will continue to look to fill the void she feels. I think we have she has so much negativity toward me right now that it is like a sore arm that keeps getting poked everytime she has to deal with me.

The other issue that really adds to the difficutlties is the real possibility she has a personality disorder. That is muddying the waters.

The reason I am here right now is her friends are encouraging her to leave. Our SIL was talking to her 3 months ago and asked her how she felt about the future with me. W said she could not think about it and that was the trigger that she had to do something.

My friends who initially were supportive of trying to hang this thing together has indicated that it has gotten so dysfunctional with the way she is behaving that they don't think there is much hope. One of them said at what point do you get tired of being a door mat. He says he would have been gone long ago and feels I have been too tolerent.

I am still holding firm on Plan A and have been for 2 months. Right now it is pretty discouraging. I am getting emotionally drained right now which is not a good way to be operating from when you have to be making good decisions.

At what point do you think I will be implementing Plan B?

BcBoy...I have just read your thread completely. I am sorry you are having to deal with this.

First, YOU are not abusive at all....you are being ABUSED by your wife.

Do NOT move out of your house. Let her pack up and leave herself.

Your confrontation of the OM was exactly what you should have done and I would suggest continuing to expose this affair and ignore your wife's protests.

I do not believe that this affair has not gone physical.

Stop participating in anything more than helping her get her bags to the car.

Your wife is trying to make you feel bad so that she can have her affair in secret. Don't fall for it. You continue doing what you are doing and hold your head up high.

MEDC

Your WW is trying to get you out of the way so she can continue her affair. I suspct from what I have read on this post is that it is a PA.

bcboy, you have not actually been in Plan A at all. You have not stood up to this affair, exposed her or even identified her affair for what it is. Your Plan A JUST STARTED.

I am hoping what you mean when you say you have been in Plan A for 2 months is that you have STOPPED lovebusting and have tried to meet her needs? Is that so?

And why exactly do you keep saying she has a personality disorder? Did she have one before her affair? Because an active adulterer is profoundly dysfunctional and irrational. They have the nutso mentality of a alcoholic.

Thanks for weighing in, MEDC! Great post.

I'm not sure what more I should do regarding standing up to the affair. I have approached the OM. I told her I know she is having an affair with OM. She has denied but I have held fast that she is - to her face.


Yes a councellor we were seeing indicated she suspected she had a personality disorder. She said that there was a risk that once she tried working with W regarding it there was a very high probability the W would find a reason to leave IC. That is exactly what happened. She has since discredited the Counsellor ever since she left to justify her actions of leaving.


Yes I have stopped Love Busting and have tried to meet her needs. What parts of Plan A am I missing?

Exposing is not telling the OM or WW that they are banging each other. Here's a news flash I think they know that they are banging each other.

Exposing is to tell those that do not know your WW is having an affair. Why? They can put pressure on WW to end her affair. Also exposing will make WW embarrassed that people will know how she is miss behaving.

You expose without warning, or threatening that you will expose.
You expose one right after the other. Just sit at the phone until done.

Who to expose? WW's parent's, siblings, OMW or OM GF, if co workers then human resources. That is a good start for exposing.

When are you going to expose? After your WW gets a STD? OM gets her pregnant? Or both?

Listen to what Melody is telling you:

bcboy, you are not abusive at all. What you describe is a stunt that many selfish women pull to get their way. And it works on most men! Your wife defines NOT GETTING HER WAY as "abusive" which is a pretty typical tactic of a wayward wife.

And when you request that your wishes be respected in the decision making process she calls it "controlling." I would wager that about EVERY betrayed husband on this forum has been accused of being "controlling" when he tries to protect himself or have his wishes taken into account.

There is nothing "abusive" about asking to have your wishes taken into account. She is being abusive by running roughshod over you and then playing the ABUSE CARD when you object."

It's the oldest WW trick in the book...
pretending that the BH is being 'controlling'...
um if he doesn't let his wife keep secrets, lie, have an OM 'friend'...

A door mat would have left his home when his WW told him to.

Staying in your own home is NOT doormattish!

Listen to Mel!

Exposure! That's what you're missing. Do all three of your kids know? Do your WW's siblings know? Do your WW's parents know? How about her boss and her co-workers? Did you tell her close friends that she's having an affair?

Affair survive on secrecy just like fish survive on water. Expose, most affairs will die, just like most fish will die if you take them out of water.

Don't just say that she's having an affair, aslo give them the facts. How they spent evenings together, how she lied to you about their contact, and all those details that one can draw a reasonable conclusion that it is an affair.

"A door mat would have left his home when his WW told him to.

Staying in your own home is NOT doormattish!"

Yup - Marshmallow's right!

Do NOT leave your home.

Your WW probably had the OM convinced that because you're 'separated' (um without her having to even move out? LOL)
it was OK with you that he was coming over to visit your wife in YOUR HOME. And if he knew that you were there, relegated to the basement?, he figured your marriage really was over, and that you had no interest in fighting for your marriage...

But now that you've talked to the OM he doesn't want to come over to your house or continue his 'friendship' with your WW right now (until you move out anyway). Do NOT move out!!!!!

SO THAT is why your WW was so enraged when you talked to the OM, and why she has getting you to move out as her agenda. BECAUSE it has at least temporarily hindered their affair.

Who else have you exposed to?
How did your wife meet this guy?
Make sure their mutual friends know you aren't really 'separated' and that you do NOT approve of the EA between the OM and your wife. She lied to them too not just the OM and maybe they will withdraw their support of her if they knew the truth. So far exposure has been very effective! (Measure the effectiveness by how angry the WS gets LOL)

STOP sleeping in the basement! Sleep in your own bed.
If she wants to play 'separated' SHE can go sleep in the basement, or move out into one of those apartments she found for you. Do your children know you're sleeping in the basement?
Did you tell them about her having the OM over while you were in the basement?

Just make sure you do NOT take any of her bait to argue.
Walk away, go into YOUR bedroom and lock the door, go take a shower so you can't hear her above the water's noise. Do not let her harrass you into moving out, or make you so scared of false accusations that you are 'controlling'/'abusing' her that you move out. If it does come to a point where you think you might have to go then put a "FOR SALE" sign in the front yard first. Because her plan is to get you to move out, so she can then tell OM that you really are separated, and that it is safe for him to come over. She probably thinks you are going to support her and the OM in your home! A FOR SALE sign might serve as a wake-up call for her.

"Don't just say that she's having an affair, aslo give them the facts. How they spent evenings together, how she lied to you about their contact, and all those details that one can draw a reasonable conclusion that it is an affair."

Agreed, and don't forget to tell everyone you expose to that she lied to OM and told him that you two were separated, that she had you move to the basement so OM would think it was OK with you that he visit her in your home, and that when you talked to the OM and told him the truth he backed off for now. AND that their plan is to try to get you to move out of your own home so they can resume!

You NEED support from family, friends, pastor who will back you up on staying in your own home.

She's already lying about you being 'controlling' so she can falsely accuse you of abuse to get you kicked out. BEFORE she goes around blabbing that lie to everyone, you expose to them first and tell them the truth about her evil agenda! That way when she tries to get their sympathy with her abuse lies they'll be less likely to believe her.

Look how bold she was in inviting the OM over to visit just because you moved into the basement! She WILL let him move in with her if you move out of the home!!!

Expose the whole sorry mess to everyone ASAP.

Oh gosh, yes!

Move back into your own bedroom...into your own bed.

Years ago, my brother pulled this crap on my SIL. He started by picking fights w/ her for over a week.

Finally, he just called her parents up and told them he was done w/ their M and to come get their DD.

SIL told me he moved his OW in the next day.

Then it all made sense to her.

I have exposed the affair to friends, children, relatives. That is why she is so mad. She is telling me she is already feeling isolated since she announced she wanted to separate. And now that I have been so vindictive about telling people that she is having an affair she is feeling isolated. She tells me I am forcing her into another mans arms because of what I am doing. And she says nothing is going on just friends. (Contradiction)

I have not moved out and I am still in the house.

The OM is a neighbour. We were friends with them since we moved here. They were a couple but his wife just ran off with her childhood sweetheart, and he just got divorced. Of course he was calling here for support when he was going through the divorce.

Children know everything. Two of the three think we would be happier if we seperated. They think their mother is acting nutty.

She was wanting a temporary separation where she would live out of the bank account. I said I wanted to stay married. If she wants to separate that is her right to do so but I will not be initiating that process. She wants to keep the house so I told her she would have to buy me out if that is the route she insists on following. I told her I don't think she will have an easy time financially if she pursues her decision.

Any thing else?

Don't stay in the basement. It's YOUR house and you're paying for it.

Do you think they are still in contact, but just underground? If so, anyone on the OM's side that you can expose who can put pressure on the OM to stop?

Since your WW has been telling others that you're controlling, crazy, etc., make sure you tell them that you're fighting for your marriage and that your WW is the one who's acting irrational due to the affair and ask for their support to put pressue in ending her affair.

Since your kids want you to end the marriage. May I ask how the marriage was before the affair? Whatever that you had before, is it worth fighting for? Do you think you can forgive if and when she returns to you and disclosing that she has been sleeping with him? These are questions you need to ask yourself.

BCBOY, hang in there. You are getting a lot of good advice and it is a lot to absorb. But you are off to a good start and I can see that you are growing stronger and more determined.

I do want to warn you that there is one particular person in this thread with intitals TD who you should be very wary of. Whatever you do, do not exchange emails. Others have been put in very unsavory positions due to TD and the last thing you need right now is a stalker.

Otherwise, I think this is just the place for you, and your WW is going to be so surprised that you are standing up and fighting for your self and for a REAL marriage, not a psuedo marriage where she calls the shots and you do as your told.

I agree that WW will TRY to pick a fight though. She will very likely try to goad you into physical violence so she can have you thrown out of your home. Don't fall for it! Remember , you are in a war to save your marriage if possible, and if not, at least your own sanity and dignity. Hang tough! Prayers are going up for you.

I am suspicious about it going underground but I cannot prove it yet. I am paying close attention.

I do not know too many of the OM connections. His parents and family are in Europe.

Our marriage before the affair was struggling but I thought we would be able to work on it. I guess I made a mistake. The issue came to a head when I retired and she got thinking of me being around more. She was thinking about the future and it did not suit her.

I have been fighting for the marriage. As the layers of this onion get peeled back I am now wondering if I will be able to continue. I now feel betrayed. I don't think it was a PA because I saw the signs and interveened before that happend (but I don't really know for sure). I know I have been lied to and manipulated, and our marriage has been changed forever.

I have been reading some of the other posts about letting the spouse go and finding someone who would appreciate what I have to offer. I know I am not thinking the clearest right now so I am remaining faithful and wanting to restore my marriage (however as her behaviour continues I am starting to wonder if it is repairable). Trust has been broken and I will now always be suspicious or wondering what the real story is. She even excuses her lying by saying she is scared to tell me the truth.
(is that because what she is doing is wrong and should feel guilty?)

However from what my wife is saying she is not willing to work on it. I am too late. She was ready two years ago and I missed the window of opportunity according to her.

Do you see why it came to a head NOW? It is because your presence interferes with her affair. I bet she did not want you to retire, did she?


You have been betrayed. It is not just a feeling. But that can change if your wife turns around and makes just compensation. I know you don't believe it, but we have seen much worse than your wife do a complete about face when the affair died.


That is what one does when nothing else works. You are just arriving at the field of battle. I am sure that other person tried many things first. Your marriage is not hopeless, bcboy.

Throwing in the towel before you even start fighting for your marriage is a little extreme when we are talking about a 30 yr marriage. And you may very well end up moving on, but please don't give up before you TRY.


Trust can be restored but trust will never blind again. You can both learn to live with good boundaries so this never happens again. Your W can learn to practice good boundaries in the future.


She is excusing her lying. You are right.


She will feel this way until her affair is killed. Your job is to kill the affair. Each and every time OM sees her or calls her, go have a VISIT with him. Continue to expose to EVERYONE. Exposure is like CHEMOTHERAPY to cancer.

And most of all, stop listening to her drunken ramblings! They mean nothing. As soon as you get her "separated" from her OM, her tune will change because she won't be intoxicated on her addiction to the OM.

Bless you Melody. You have been very faithful in your encouragement to me while I am in my own fog.

I don't know why you are so thoughtful and caring but I sure appreciate it.

I have been thinking about this forum. Isn't it unique how a bunch of strangers can get together and share the most intimate details about their lifes struggles. I am not sure what I would have done, if a friend of mine had not recommended this site.

I do a lot of reading and it is amazing how similar the stories are. I also find it interesting how I can see solutions for someone elses issues but seem blinded on my own issues.

Thank you to all of you who have taken the time to respond to my posts. I hope I can learn through this and repay by helping someone else in their hour of need.

God Bless

bcboy, I am very glad you found us. Most of us were distraught when we got here and thankfully, there was someone here to help us too.

edited to add: have you picked up the book Surviving an Affair yet? Dr. HArley sells it cheap on this website with fast, cheap shipping: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6070_sa.html

Another great resource is his radio archive. He had a radio show where folks called in and asked him questions. It is very educational.

BCboy...since the OM is a neighbor I think you should make a call to a real estate agent and put the house up for sale. NC will NEVER be possible without moving.

I also would have someone anonymously let the OM know that he is putting his health and future on the line by remaining in contact with your wife. And, no, I am not kidding. I see him as a bully...and firmly believe that punching a bully in the nose is the best course of action.

Your tasks for today should be to move back into your bedroom. Also, look your wife square in the eye and tell her that you will not be moving out. Also tell her that despite her protests to the contrary that you know she is having an affair and that her lies are not fooling you.

Ask her if she would be willing to talk to SH for one session. Based on what I have read here he seems to be able to get waywards to see what they are really doing.

Have your kids spoken to their mom about her actions? Would you be better off without her??? I ask this because of the words of your children. Perhaps your wife is a bit nuts and should be left behind. Obviously you and your family would know best.

Keep your head up....and do not take anything she says seriously. She is a wayward...waywards lie, cheat and steal. Know your enemy.

BC, sorry to say that this is a PA. Sounds like your WW is a rebound relationship for this OM, and we all know that those have less of a chance than any other A, which is almost no chance anyway.

I was in a 34 yr. M, and I don't regret putting up a fight. I eventually had to go to Plan B, but I'm glad I fought as hard as I did because if I hadn't, I wouldn't be able to live with myself. Please, get a plan together and fight. Part of that plan includes Plan B if she refuses to stop the A.

Unfortunately I found MB too late and had made too many mistakes, but you have found this place early in the game and still have a good chance to save your M. Trust us, if you bust up this A, fight for your M, and succeed, you will be your WW's hero.

bcboy, I have to agree with Chailover and didn't want to break it to you, but she is right. Your W has had the opportunity and is already inordinately bonded to this man. I would be SHOCKED to find out they did not sleep together all this time. I suspect the OM has been spending his days in your house while you were at work for a long time. And when you retired, you threw a big monkey wrench in the works.

Why did his wife divorce him? Was it because of this affair? It wouldn't surprise me to find out she knew about the affair and left for that reason. Do you know how to get ahold of her?

Regarding being better off without her. I am beginning to think I might be. After telling my children and friends what she has been doing, and they have been telling me how she has been untruthful, and her actions they are saying I should move on. Get out. They do think she is erratic and her behaviour is getting more extreme, like most borderlines will.

The OM works long days as he is in construction. His wife left him after going to Europe to see her family, struck up a relationship with an old boyfriend and filed for divorce. True to form that A is over now. I don't know how to get hold of her as she is off away traveling in some foreign land.

I am starting to get my act together. The W is telling me our M would only have a chance if I can change. The problem is what she tells me I need to change keeps changing. She is in IC right now and is working on stuff from her childhood that has been impacting her all her life.

I am having to evaluate what the future would look like. Is it better to develop a new life, fight the effects of lonliness; or stay in this tension filled dysfunctional M. One thing they say about borderlines is if there isn't a crisis they will create one. And it can be a real roller coaster ride.

I have lost my trust for her and I doubt if I will ever be able to believe what she says again. She admits she lies because she says she is scared to tell the truth. She does not like to feel the guilt I guess. She says she is afraid of my reaction. That reaction is that I ask questions, and when I ask questions I find there are inconsistancies in her answers.

I asked her when she has contacted the OM last. She said Thursday of this week. And I overheard her on the phone to him Saturday night when she thought I was out. So she keeps lying. She didn't think I could hear.

Right now I am beginning to think that I am going to have to get out of this situation as it is very stressful. I am preparing the plan. She is unwilling to stop the A as she keeps saying we are separated (and in her words it is nothing). Her interpretation of when we were separated is when she told me she wanted to separate we were separated.

She has explained that she thinks God brought this OM into her life to show her what could be possible for her future relationships. This OM is sensitive to a womans needs, and thoughtful. She wants to be happy with the time she has left. She has not been happy with our relationship. She says I am verbally abusive - but what she is calling abusive is when I don't give in right away to what she wants.

She brought up another issue last night which was a huge issue for her. My wife has not been particularly organized. She decieded one night to order Chinese food for my son because we were going out. I had 10 dollars in my wallet which I needed for the next day. She had forgotten to go to the bank. She asked me to give her the 10. I told her I needed it for the next day. She says I don't have any money for son to get the Chinese food. (There was other food in the house but she wanted to treat our son) She would then have to go down to the restaraunt and use her bank card to get the food, what would have been more convenient would be to give son the cash. This was not an unusual situation. I did not have time to go to the bank in the morning to get more money.

This was a huge deal to her. This was an example of how uncaring I was. I felt that she needed to take responsiblity for her own decisions and if she wanted to do something check out the requirements ahead of time. I am getting weary of always operating in this crisis mode. She said I was being selfish and self centered because I would not give up the money. It is a key example of how I withhold. I was being unsupportive of her need to treat our son. This is an example of how things go. I was getting weary of alway having to ride to the rescue and "fix" the problem when a bit of planning would solve the problem. If I hold her accountable for her actions she gets really steamed.

She says she has become increasingly unhappy over the years. I have been trying to meet her needs but I have failed. As one of our friends said to me (who has know us for years) I don't think you are going to be able to fill that void she has. It has gotten a little out of hand. He said to me he felt I have been too tolerent of the situation. He doesn't know how I have survived. He is also saying get out, life does not have to be this stressful.

I still love my wife but after this last episode I am having to reevaluate where I am at
1) The EA possibly PA
2) Lying
3) Wanting to separate
4) Trust destroyed
5) Accusing me of Abuse
6) Not willing to go to M councelling
7) Demanding physical separation not just in home (as an option)
8) Saying she thinks she can find her soulmate, and its not me
9) Marriage has been bad for 30 years
10) Friends and several family members are saying get out (they are sad to see where we are at but not surprised)
11) SIL talked to wife in May that she thought OM liked her and W did not cut it off. ( I guess it was encouraging that someone else could like her)
12) Likelyhood she has a personality disorder that is getting more extreme. ( She is not willing to contemplate the thought that she may have one - one counsellor suggested it and she bailed - which apparently is common - counsellor told me I was likely in for a rough ride - but I stayed)
13) I am getting weary and stressed and I am not coping as well as I was. I am starting to feel the depression coming back.
14) Unwilling to cut off contact with OM because in her mind she is separated from me.
15) Wife says its too late now, there was a chance two years ago but not now.
16) She says the physical separation is necessary so we can both learn how to stand on our own.

I have tried to be tolerant of what is gong on, but I am loosing hope at this time. I see very little to build on. Right now there is only one person wanting to be in this M and I am starting to loose my desire.

bcboy, I have one question for you. Has your wife been this crazy and irrational all your marriage? When did this start?

That is a tough question about when it started. There have been shadows of the behaviour for 20 years but it really started to intensify about 7 years ago. One of the things that I am wondering triggered it was when her Father died. He was very controlling and she suffers from being guilt motivated. She probably felt freed up when he passed away. She has indicated she stayed in the marriage because of guilt.

She is currently seeing a councellor dealing with rejection from a her childhood. Her mother never wanted a baby, as I think she had to get married. One of the stories I heard was when they brought W in to the mother she started to moan "oh no not a girl, I wanted a boy". The doctor chastised her for this but still my W was fully aware of the story. She was pretty well ignored by parents but she was really bonded with the grandmother who lived with them while she was growing up. When the grandma died she was 7 and the teacher had to talk to the parents about what was wrong with W. She seemed to be in shock. She lost her significant bond at an early age.

My situation probably does not help either. My Mom died when I was 2 months old. I was raised by relatives until I was two. I have since done reading that this experience significantly impacts an individuals ability to bond and experience emotions.

My experience has been I am not very good with emotions. Of course I grew up in an era where "real men don't have emotions". Only sissys have emotions. Sports teams encourage you to "suck it up and be a man". I am sure you have heard the drill before. My father was also a workaholic and was never home. Not his fault he had a lot of bills to pay. He was an honorable man so he never declared bankrupcy. He paid everyone back.

Now in a marriage rather than being the hunter gatherer we also need to be experienced and skilled at emotional needs. I was lacking a role model. All I knew how to do was work hard and provide for my family. That's all a guy needs to do right? (not) So I have been trying to learn how to meet emotional needs. I feel like I learned how to drive a car but now I have to fly a plane.

So there you have it just a couple of messed up kids just trying to muddle our way through.

It's unescapable how our childhood and experiences affect us long after we become adults and probably continues on for the rest of our lifes.

In your case, at least you know and aware of your past and issues and hopefull know how to deal with it and sort things out.

ok, bcboy, do you want to save your marriage? Nothing you have said convinces me she is any different from any other wayward. This is far from hopeless and I have seen much worse than this come back frm the dead. Sure, you are entitled to leave, but wouldn't the ideal be to stay in your home and save your marriage?

Feel free to ask the other posters here if I am a purveyor of false hope. I wont be offended, I would welcome it.

Do you love your wife?

Another thing to consider is that if you move out, the OM will likely move in and your marriage will be less likely to ever recover. At the very least she will openly resume her affair. I firmly believe that she wants you out for this very reason.

There are times I wished I did not because it would be easier. I still do love my wife. I am beginning to wonder why but I still do love her.

The information I have recieved here has been pretty accurate so far so as much as my gut turns when I think of the prospect I think the OM would be continuing contact and progressing the relationship. My son has talked to him. My son had worked for him and he says he is not calling or coming by any more. I still know he would like to rekindle the relationship if the opportunity arises. So you are probably right.

I am struggling with what to do now. Do I stay here in a one sided relationship? I love and care for her. She does not love me, and wants to physically separate. She tells me she needs this time to heal. Hmmmmm. I don't believe what she says anymore. How can you trust when you have been lied to? How do you build a relationship when one party is not interested.

By leaving I agree that it would be over. I am not going to be sitting in the wings waiting to see if she will choose door number 1 or door number 2. If I go she will have to understand that I am gone. I will be establishing my own life and she will have to manage the best she can. She seems to think that I am willing to wait around for her to make up her mind on our future and that I will come running back.

As she said she may find out she cannot live without me in six months and we can get back together then. I don't think so. To my way of thinking she needs to realize this is serious and even though I deeply love her I can only take so much.

"Regarding being better off without her. I am beginning to think I might be. After telling my children and friends what she has been doing, and they have been telling me how she has been untruthful, and her actions they are saying I should move on. Get out. They do think she is erratic and her behaviour is getting more extreme, like most borderlines will."

Even if you do believe you might be better off without her,
even if your friends and family think you should move on,
that you two shuold not live to gether anymore...

WHY would you interpret that as YOU need to be the one who moves out?

You DO REALIZE that the reason she wants you to move out is because she wants to be able to have the OM in the home with her, right?

And men who work construction can find time to go fool around during the day.

Who told you the reason his marriage broke up? How do you know if you were told the truth, the whole story? Find out how to get in contact with his EX wife or some of her relatives or friends to hear her half of the story. It could be that he was cheating with your wife before she left, and her affair was a revenge affair. It seems to be too much of a coincidence that her EA supposedly started when you retired... more like your being home now interfered with it.

I can sort of understand your not wanting to fight for your marriage, to just give up and let this OM destroy your marriage and take your wife...

But why would you be so co-operative in getting out so he can come in? Dude, you're playing right into THEIR plan.

Sleep in your own bed tonight, put a for sale sign out front tomorrow, and tell her to move into one of those apartments she checked on.

Expose some more too - to some people who won't endorse her plan to get you out ASAP so he can take your place in your home. BTW, is he in a situation where he will have to sell his home because of his divorce? If so, he's probably coaching your wife on what to say and do to get you to move out so he can move in.

ok, so we have established that you love your wife and you want to save your marriage.


I am struggling with how to impress on you what you are dealing with. You continually take the RAMBLINGS OF A FALLING DOWN INTO ACCOUNT in your decision making process.

We are going to get NOWHERE if you continue to do this. By reacting to her every drunken rambling, you are allowing a DRUNK PERSON to drive this ship.

And guess where a fallng down drunk is going to take the ship? TO CRASH ON ROCKS.

Your wife is POSSESSED, SIR. She is DRUNK. She is not in her right mind and has NO IDEA how she feels and will not until the source of her intoxication is removed.

Unless you are willing to DRIVE THIS SHIP according to your plan and stop reacting her to FOGBABBLE we are going to get nowhere here.

Please listen to me, bcboy. Your wife is just like EVERY other WS who passes through here and is saying all the same stuff, VER BATIM. She is NO DIFFERENT. But hanging on her every word is crippling you.

With a falling down drunk, one must keep their focus on:

1. separating the drunk from his booze so he can sober up

2. not allowing oneself to be sidetracked by his drunken ramblings and fogbabble

3. going by ACTIONS only and NEVER TALK - TALK never matters coming from a WS, NEVER. Only action

Do you have the ability to put some cotton in your ears and stop hanging on every word uttered by a drunk? Do y0u have the ability to make a sane rational plan and STOP allowing a drunk to make your plans?

I am getting real worried, bcboy.

Please ...............focus on YOUR PLAN and not HER PLAN.

Her plan will lead you straight to desruction. Your may lead your marriage out of this morass.

"I still know he would like to rekindle the relationship if the opportunity arises. So you are probably right."

And he WILL as soon as you move out.

"I am struggling with what to do now. Do I stay here in a one sided relationship?"

OK, staying in your home does not mean you are 'staying in a one sided relationship', it means you are not goign to hand your wife AND home over to the OM.

"I love and care for her. She does not love me, and wants to physically separate."

So tell her to move out. She doesn't merely want to separate, she wants you to leave so she can pretend the separation, divorce, and adultery were your doing, and she wants to move the OM into your home.

"By leaving I agree that it would be over."

It sure will, and with handing over some hefty concessions tot he adulterers to boot.

"If I go she will have to understand that I am gone."

If you move out she won't really care what you're up to in her fogginess and with the OM sharing your home with her.

"I will be establishing my own life and she will have to manage the best she can."

Actually you'll be putting yourself out of your own home, doing much more work than needed to start your new life, while making it VERY EASY for her and the OM to pick up right where they left off. She'll manage quite easily I assure you if you do as your told.

"She seems to think that I am willing to wait around for her to make up her mind on our future and that I will come running back."

Right now she isn't worrying about whether or not you'll come running, she and he just want you to move out ASAP.

Because you were willing to sleep in the basement, while she had OM over for dates upstairs, they've gotten the impression that you will obey whatever humiliating command they give you now. So now they're telling you to move out of your own home so he can start coming over to your home again.

Sheesh! When you went to talk to the OM what did you guys say to each other?

You: I don't approve of you coming over to my house to see my wife, when I'm downstairs in the basement.

He: OK then if you won't shut up and put up while being relegated to the basement, then WE are going to have to tell you to move out.

Did they give you a deadline for when you have to be out by?
Maybe you better hurry up and pack, they might get upset if they have to wait much longer to have sex in your home.

I'm sorry but your denial and apathy is very frustrating.

There is something not right with the story about the OMW. Something doesn't FIT. Why would she be SO DESPERATE to get you out of the house if he has a whole house all to his own? Why would she bring him to YOUR HOUSE for dates when he has a whole house to himself?

Something does not add up. Do you know FOR A FACT that his wife is gone? I don't mean what you were told by liars, but as a matter of independent verification.

It is clear she needs you out because your retirement has interfered with their love lair. But why would they need a love lair if his wife has left and he has the house to himself?

What is wrong with this picture?

melody,

great insight.

Do not move out of your house. You did nothing wrong. You should not have to move.

I can alway rely on Mel when I need a good kick in the pants. OK I think I got it, stay in the home, let her go if she wants to.

The OMW is gone for sure as they live several properties up. OM had to take out a large mortgage to buy her out so that is why he has to work so much.

He was worming his way into our home because my W felt sorry for him as we all thought he was a nice guy, who needed someone to talk to because of his Divorce issues. I thought he was a nice guy until I realized the was making a move on my W. That's when I came here to find out how to best handle this. Boy did I learn my lesson about thinking a Male / Female friendship might be harmless. I was stupid not to have seen this and intervened earlier on.

My wife has told me that he has never touched her. She thought it was OK to have him to our place because everything is out in the open. She said I would have something to worry about if she was going up to his place, but she did not. I kept telling her it is till an affair. It was leading to getting physical. She says she does not think of him that way. Yet she is telling me she is looking for a man with heart (apparently she feels I have intelligence but not heart)

Thanks to MB forum here I think I intervened in the EA before it became a PA. It likely was heading there. The OM has backed off because he told my son he thought I was intimidating. I don't appologize for that even though I have members of my family who think I insulted him. Too d**n bad for that. He was acting inappropriately and got caught. He even said he "maybe, might could see how I might think there was something going on" I told him "Not maybe". So if he is embarassed, good.

Wife was really p*ssed at me this morning as she feels I damaged her reputation. I told her I did not damage her reputation, only a persons actions can damage their reputation.

Thank you for the reply meremortal. As a matter of fact since I embarassed her and ruined her reputation she wants me out by the middle of August. She is livid that I am remaining so non commital about moving out. I am remaining non confrontational and very methodical in all that I am doing.

bcboy,

Make no move to leave...

Be very careful that you give her nothing she can use to try to get you removed by the cops...

Maintain control over your actions, your voice and your words so as not to give her ANYTHING to use against you...

Mark

Just checked the cell phone records and the A has gone underground as you suggested. He has been calling her and she has been calling him every day.

I am getting to the end of this road. I am so choked right now I am thinking they can have each other. I am going to move on and find someone trustworthy. I am emotional right now, very angry and hurt. There is no longer a foundation for this relationship. Betrayal is a nasty and cutting thing.

BC

Again, it is still too early in this process for you to make the decision that your M is over or that you don't want it. Please don't make that decision while you are so emotional. Right now, your W is soooo addicted that she is almost frantic to get you out of the house so that she can get him in. This is why I believe that it is a PA. It seems that once these things cross the line to a PA, well, then they really are hooked and your W is showing signs of really being hooked.

If you don't feel that you can Plan A anymore, then kick her sorry [censored] out and go to Plan B. I can see in your writing that this is driving you crazy. Let her leave, go to Plan B and let her see how life is without you in it.


Does she have a job? Can she make it on her own?

I agree. I think this is definitely a PA.

I suggest getting a digital voice-activated recorder and set it up in your home, perhaps your bedroom, to find out what she's saying in those calls. You should have your proof soon enough.

Also, DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME!

"The OMW is gone for sure as they live several properties up. OM had to take out a large mortgage to buy her out so that is why he has to work so much."

hmmmm... is that mortgage something he's struggling to keep up with? If he loses his home in foreclosure, guess where he's planning on moving to: your home (after they get you out).

"He was worming his way into our home because my W felt sorry for him as we all thought he was a nice guy, who needed someone to talk to because of his Divorce issues."

He needs to tal to another man about that -not a somebody else's wife.

"My wife has told me that he has never touched her."

Don't give any credence to what she says while she is fogged up.
No matter what she says: they never touched... he has a better 'heart' than you... whatever it's all a bunch of fog-babbly lies. Do NOT let any of her babble have any effect on your decision-making process!!! Like Melody said, she's falling down drunk and probably won't even remember half od what she's saying when she sobers up. YOUR task right now is to keep them from stealing your home out from under you and to end the adultery by exposing to some more people. Have you contacted his EX wife yet? What do his relatives think about his EA with your wife? What do the other neighbors think? (I bet they could give you more accurate data about how often he was coming over to visit your wife before you retired...)

"She thought it was OK to have him to our place because everything is out in the open. She said I would have something to worry about if she was going up to his place, but she did not."

Adulterers give themselves permission with silly little excuses like that. (Think of Clinton insisting: "I did NOT have sex with that woman"... um define "sex"...)

See she had it all figured out: as long as she didn't go to HIS house, then if the neighbors started gossipping she could claim that the TWO OF YOU were helping him get over his divorce. That way she could protect her reputation. Then when you retired she had to relegate you to the basement so she could continue to have him over, and she could assure any nozy neighbors that it wasn't inappropriate because you were there too... (um in the basement.) Got talk to the neighbors! Find out what they were told and what they've observed!!!

"I kept telling her it is till an affair. It was leading to getting physical. She says she does not think of him that way."

Of course she doesn't think if it/him that way.
After all then she'd be admitting that SHE is doing something inappropriate. She has it all planned out how she can continue the adultery, while making it look like: you two were having marital problems (unrelated to OM), then you two separated (preferably with YOU moving out per her agenda), THEN she will go public with her affair with the OM pretending they were just friends before YOU ended the marriage.

"Yet she is telling me she is looking for a man with heart (apparently she feels I have intelligence but not heart)"

And it's just supposed to be a coincidence that she suddenly wants to end your marriage and go searching for a 'man with heart'.. and wow, look, her search is over, because it just so happens (as soon as she can get you to move out and move on) there he is (OM/neighbor). Uh-huh. She is so fogged up that she can't think clearly. She probably actually believes that everyone will buy it that YOU broke up the marriage, then she got involved with OM (in that order). She's trying to gaslight you into going along with her agenda. But again, I bet the neighbors aren't buying it, EXPOSE to all the neighbors and find out what they already know. Maybe it will clear some of her fog if she knows the neighbors aren't buying it, that her reputation indeed is getting tarnished and the gig is up.

Do not let her know how you know that they are still talking to each other regularly.

Do not leave your home. It is your home. You worked hard to purchase that home and to build a family life in it. Do not leave it. Know that every time you walk in that door, that it is yours and you have every RIGHT to be there. Please do not give it up.

I hope you at least spend time on the ground floor of your home. I hope you enjoy a pleasant day in the nicest parts of your home---family room, kitchen, porch....where ever you want to go. I do hope you move back into your bedroom too. But if you haven't done that yet, I hope you make your presence seen and felt in all parts of your home.

"Did they give you a deadline for when you have to be out by? Maybe you better hurry up and pack, they might get upset if they have to wait much longer to have sex in your home."

I just want to make sure you realize I was totally being sarcastic when I wrote that. I wasn't really suggesting that you shoudl move out by their deadline or that part of your plan should be doing what they want so they won't get upset.

"Thank you for the reply meremortal. As a matter of fact since I embarassed her and ruined her reputation she wants me out by the middle of August."

You didn't embarrass her or ruin her reputation... you just exposed her plan to commit adultery. She wants you to move out so she can pretend you're the one ending the marriage so she can maybe still pretend you two separated first, THEN she started affair with OM. Her babble lies mean nothing to you and should have no affect on YOUR plan.

Except since she's so concerned abou her reputation, you should definitely do MORE exposure, especially to the neighbors who I'm betting made some observations of what was going on before you retired, and could continue to do so. If she really was refraining from going to his home, she IS worried what the neighbors might think, right? She might lose hope in her scheme if she found out that the neighbors already suspected and disapproved, that she's already damaged her reputation with them.

"She is livid that I am remaining so non commital about moving out."

Have you ever (calmly) asked her why SHE doesn't move out?
She did threaten to move out right? Maybe you should just say, "Remember the other day you said that if I didn't move out, then you would? Well I've been thinking and I agree that it would be best if you moved out instead of me."

I might even say: "Why are you demanding that *I* move out? Is the OM about to lose his home to foreclosure and he's pressuring you to let him move in here?"

"I am remaining non confrontational and very methodical in all that I am doing."

Stay away from her as much as possible when she wants to argue.
(BUT do NOT go hide in the basement! Move back upstairs - sleep in YOUR bed. Invite somebody over to help you move your stuff back upstairs so you'll have a witness if HSE attacks you and then tries to claim you abused her.) Refuse to take her bait to argue. Invite your family and friends over frequently, the ones you can count on to back you up on staying in your own home that is. They can serve as witnesses to her attempts to try to start fights, and your resolve to be nice to wife (Plan A). This will help protect you from false accusations that you are
'controlling' or abusing her. She'll probably try to get a restraining order against you in order to get you kicked out.
Start lining up witnesses and allies to counter that lie.
Just calmly state that you are not moving out of your own home.
In front of other people, calmly inform your wife that you do not plan to comply with the plan she and the OM concocted to kick you out of your own home. It might even help to send her a certified letter, copied to others (family, lawyer, pastor, OM, neighbors) stating that you are aware of their plot to make you move out of your own home so OM can move in, that she is free to go (you are not 'controlling' her or preventing separation), but that you plan to remain in your own home).

Or maybe put a for sale sign out front.
It doesn't matter that you don't really plan on selling the home.
She doesn't need to know that. She OBVIOUSLY has keeping the home, without you in it, and with the OM moving in, as her agenda. Hey it might even be that if the OM thinks you plan to sell the home he might lose interest in your home and find himself another married man's home/wife to steal.

BTW, when you talked to the OM did you inform him that you would not be moving out of your home? It seems your little talk with him was very effective at keeping him away from your home (for now). But he'll start coming over again once you move out. If you tell him you won't be moving out maybe he'll tell your wife it's over?

It may turn out his interest in your wife may have a lot to do with wanting to live in your home.

(My WH once took his OW to the storage place where my huge, lovely set of bedroom furniture was stored. The gal who worked in the office tattled to me that they went there and spent a lot of time looking at the stuff. I changed the locks, had his name/access taken off the account and informed WH to tell his OW that she had stolen my husband, but she wasn't getting my furniture too!)

bcboy, please change this error TODAY. You cannot be NONCOMMITTAL, you must be DECISIVE and FIRM. She cannot see any wafflng on your part. Your conflict avoidance days are over, friend, you no longer have that luxury. She must know that you are not going along with her plans so she will have second thoughts.

She needs to see that her little plan to destroy you will not be so easy. If she thinks you will do easy, she will continue on this path.

Please tell her TODAY, you will not be going anywhere, THIS IS YOUR HOME! Say it firmly, with confidence.

Absolutely.

As long as you are not firm about remaining in the home, she will CONTINUE to harrass you about it.

You are making this MUCH harder on yourself. Once you are firm about remaining, she will have no other choice but to accept it.

Marsh is right. Conflict avoidance will only cause more conflict. You no longer have the luxury to engage in conflict avoidance. You won't get away with it anymore.

Ditto to Marsh and Mel. BC, you have two of the best giving you advice...I suggest you follow it before it's too late.

OK the I'm not leaving message gets delivered today. I moved back upstairs two nights ago. She is not a happy camper. But then again neither am I.
I have been trying to be more concilliatory because she has felt I have been controlling in the past so I have been trying to accomodating. She is viewing my actions now as controlling. Well either I am controlling or a doormat, so look out world bcboy now has a backbone.

That's the way BC. You are getting our drift now.

You grew them - good work man!!

Beat that chest of yours and stand up to her.

Oh, she is going to be REALLY pi$$ed, so be prepared.....

Good for you!! So did your wife stay in the room with you, or move to the basement?

Just please be careful; I'm still concerned that she will try to provoke a physical confrontation.

Now you got it!!

And don't worry about being accused of being "controlling." We play the "controlling" card to shut down our husbands so we can get our way. DON'T FALL FOR IT. If defending yourself from her ASSAULT on your marriage is "controlling," then so be it.

And just keep this in mind, bcboy; your goal is to save your marriage, not to avoid making your wife angry at all costs.

Have you noticed that the wayward wives of the other husbands here all say the same thing? We have been seeing it here for years.

Melody you are a sweetheart. Thanks to all of you guys for helping me see through the fog. I have to get ready for her tirade about how she will move out if I don't. How I am ruiining any chance for us to get back together.

If she moves out anyone have experience if you can eliminate the joint bank account. I have restricted access to everything else but there are some operating funds in the joint account mainly from my cheques. She is currently unemployed, so has limited funds. I have noticed she has been buying cell phone time so she can "keep in touch". Should I cut off the money supply completely? I am viewing this a risky move as it could involk legal action. What are peoples experience?

Where are you BC? Canada?

You are very welcome, bcboy. And thank you so much for taking time to help others here when you are in a crisis of your own.


But, remember, you already "ruined your chances" last week when you confronted the OM?? So, ya can't ruin what is already ruined!

When she threatens to move out - and believe me she DOES NOT want to move out and is likely just bluffing - just tell her this:

"I would sure hate to see you go, but I would never dream of trying to stop you." <smile>


I would move half of your money out of the main account and have your checks diverted to a new checking account. She will need to get a new job to pay for her new pad. She should not be taking family money to fund her affair pad.

Also, if she does move, don't let her take a stick of furniture without a court order and a big TEXAS RANGER with a .45. Let her know she is not going to tear up your home without a fight. Say this nicely, of course. I am not telling you these things to be mean to her, but in order to force her to have second thoughts about the EASE of dismanteling her marriage and home. SHE SHOULD HAVE TO WORK VERY HARD FOR IT.

But like I said, I don't believe she intends on going anywhere. She is just saying that in the hopes it will get you to move.

bcboy, please don't dismiss our advice to protect your finances. We have had waywards who squandered $50,000+ in pursuit of their affairs and left the marriage in dire financial straits. They will buy boob jobs, plastic surgery, expensive trips for themselves and the OP, a houseful of brand new furniture for their new lovenest; we have seen it all!

Don't allow her to wipe you out financially because an insane WS will do it. And she may promise you she won't and not give you any warning before she wipes out your retirement savings or cashes in an entire equity line of credit. Our BS' who were wiped out financially never saw it coming.

secure the money bc. Melody is right in so many ways and this is one of them.

You need to take her off the acct. She will throw even more words out but its for your safety.

Absolutely not. When you told me the first time I battoned down the hatches. The only thing left is the operating account where we pay bills out of; Reduced the line of credit to 500.00 and have a minimal balance in there.

The only thing left tomorrow is to cancel the credit card she has on my account. I have already reduced the limit to 1000.00.

So she is going to go ballistic with this next move as she will really complain about my controlling abusive behaviour. I will be such a jerk in her eyes.

Last night she was trying to get me to move out of the house but leave her full access to the joint account. "I will be getting alimony anyway so why go to the bother and expense of the formal separation as it seems like an unneccessary expense because we may get back together in 6 months; if you can make the changes you need to make"

Oh sure, fund the affair. No thanks. Now that she has admitted to being deceptive and untruthful, how on earth can she expect me to trust her?

She says we would have to have trust in each other for this plan. Nice for her to keep her options open. She tells me she has to lie to me because she does not like what happens when she tells me the truth. The last time she told me the truth I confronted the OM and just made things ugly. I have damaged her reputation and caused friends to reject her.

And I am supposed to trust her now with the joint account. OK OK OK Melody I hear you. She is drunk. But dog gone it gal it does not make it any easier. I used to be on volunteer ambulance and I still got mad when a drunk ran into a family on the highway. Drunks do a lot of damage.

Yes BC. My WH had a few "secret" credit cards run up in the thousands. I had no clue.

I can't tell you how glad I am you are not going along with her crap! The way she is trying to manipulate you makes MY blood boil; I can only imagine what it does to yours.

What nerve, to tell you that you "just have to trust her". Trusting her was what you were doing when she decided to go out and find a boyfriend. Why on earth would you trust her NOW???

You're doing great, bc.

Pay more attention to what she DOES, and less to what she SAYS and you'll be ok.

Many are praying for you.

Marshmallow Thank you. I broke down and wept for the first time in a very long time. To know that strangers I have not ever met would lift me up in prayer at this time overwhelmes me and encourages me about the brother/sister-hood we share. I have been encouraged Thank you

I have been Reading Pepperbands notable posts and I thought this might encourage someone else as it encouraged me

God Bless you all.

And Melody Lane THANK YOU for persisting in getting me through the fog. I am learning.

Sorry Chai
I missed your post I am in Canada - British Columbia

Left out information on the counter about Affairs. She went ballistic. She says "Once again we are separated"

She got this book that describes abusive and has decieded that I am being abusive in this situation because I am not respecting her wishes. She tells me there is not marriage and what I am doing is controlling (once again) I am concerned that she is going to try and play the abuse thing in a legal sense. She will likely file for separation shortly. You can do that here apparently - one spouse can file without the co-operation of the other.

I keep telling her I want to work on the marriage. That is controlling.

She just handed me the book and it says not to have any contact with your partner during separation.

She is telling me I am making it really easy for her to end our marriage. She wants out and wants out now.

Wow. You were right she is really p#ssd

bcboy, is she moving out? Did you tell her you aren't? I have to think that even Canadian legal authorities would think it is pretty funny to get a report from a woman who says her H is abusive because he refuses to leave his own home to accomodate her affair.

Please also explain to her, like a broken record, that infidelity is a romantic relationship conducted by a married person. There is "SEPARATED" entitlement to commit adultery. As long as you are married, you are not free to pursue infidelity.

bc, watch your back.

WWs are ruthless.

It might be a good idea to pick up a pocket recorder. Just in case she decides to lie about abuse and call the police.

BC,

Oh yes, we told you she would be ticked off big time. You are doing great, so keep up the good work. Did you read SAA? Your sitch sounds a lot like the example in the book. I bet you end up having to go to Plan B soon. Read the book.

Many things can impact relationships. Borderline Personality Disorder is a hard to diagnose illness. I thought I would put this information here as some of the posts I have read have lead me to believe there are others out the struggling in relationships that may be impacted with BPD.

To complicate issues in our relationship several of these symptoms have intensified. The ones I have been dealing with are highlighted in bold

Borderline Personality Disorder

A common feature of this disorder is fear of being left alone (abandoned), even if the threat of being abandoned is not real. This fear may lead to frantic attempts to hold on to those around you and may cause you to become too dependent on others.

Sometimes you may react to the fear of being abandoned by rejecting others first before they can reject you. This erratic behavior can lead to troubled relationships in every area of your life.

People who are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder have at least five of the following symptoms. They may:4

Make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

Have a pattern of difficult relationships caused by alternating between extremes of intense admiration and hatred of others.

Have an unstable self-image or be unsure of his or her own identity.

Act impulsively in ways that are self-damaging, such as extravagant spending, frequent and unprotected sex with many partners, substance abuse, binge eating, or reckless driving.

Have recurring suicidal thoughts, make repeated suicide attempts, or cause self-injury through mutilation, such as cutting or burning himself or herself.

Have frequent emotional overreactions or intense mood swings, including feeling depressed, irritable, or anxious.

These mood swings usually only last a few hours at a time. In rare cases, they may last a day or two.

Have long-term feelings of emptiness.

Have inappropriate, fierce anger or problems controlling anger. The person may often display temper tantrums or get into physical fights.

Have temporary episodes of feeling suspicious of others without reason (paranoia) or losing a sense of reality.

Not everyone who has five or more of these symptoms is diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. For a person to be diagnosed with any personality disorder, the symptoms must be severe and must go on long enough to cause significant emotional distress or problems functioning in relationships or at work.4

I am wondering now if I made a tactical error in confronting the OM. I think what has happened is I have proveded them a common enemy ME.

AND the OM is banging your WW, AND some how you are worried that you have made the OM you enemy?

Trust me, it was not a tactical error. You already were the common enemy. What you did is cause great conflict in the affair and exposed your WW for lying to the OM about your cooperation. She was telling him you were "separated" and going along with her program. Now he knows otherwise. Confronting him was the BEST thing you have done so far and I think you should do it more often.

Who do you think you were before you confronted him?

It's just that now you know, and they know you know.

And what's more important, they know you aren't going to make their A easy for them.

Well I knew it was coming. W went to the lawyer today to start the separation process. When does Plan B kick in?

I kinda thought that is a Q you have to ask yourself, not others, don't you think?

All Blessings,
Jerry

Depends on when YOU want to start Plan B ... Some do it when YOU are ready too.

WHAT has come, bcboy? Have you been served? If and when you are served, you simply get yourself an attorney who will help you stay in your house and make her move out. Do you know of a real MEAN divorce attorney that specializes in mens rights?

How would she pay for an attorney?


You aren't even close to Plan B, bcboy.

I have been doing a lot of reading on this site and one of the things I now need advice on is how to deal with the pain of the breakdown.

At first I was caught up in the issue of the EA she was having with the neighbour, but the reality is our M is in big trouble. She has pursued the issue of Legal Separation. I talked to a lawyer and he said the assets will be divided 50 - 50 and it is up to us how we want to proceed. We can spent 50 - 200 K fighting each other in court or we can go to mediation. She is moving forward with the separation. This really is happening. It feels sureal to me.

It hit me tonight as I was out that I am very sad that I will soon be alone, without her. My friends and family are saying I will be better off without all the chaos that is created by her. But I still feel sick that we are heading down this road.

She talked to me tonight and said I have been emotionally distant for years. She says I am disconnected from my emotions, that she could not relate to me on an emotional level and she was getting bored in our relationship. That is why she was and is looking for someone she can relate to on an emotional level. (Ouch)

As a guy growing up I learned to stuff my emotions cause that was the manly thing to do (John Wayne stuff) I guess I succeeded.

The reality that I seem ill equiped to be emotionally available for her. (She says she goes deep with her friends and I she can't with me - that I am not reality based). I feel uncertain on how to make the changes she requires. I feel I am really in foreign territory here. How does one get in touch with ones emotions?

She tells me I am reliable, intelligent, capable,faithful, humourous, financially responsible, etc, but that is not what she needs. I am not sure what she needs. I tried to find out but she says we need to work on ourselves right now before we can work on the marriage. She is not interested on working on the marriage right now. And she needs space, time, separation to get healed up.

Bottom line is I will soon be alone. I am afraid of being alone. I am not sure I hold out much hope any more in the possibility of reconciling. I feel so much grief right now. I feel I have failed.

How does one survive?

Yep, sounds just like the typical affair. Is that you, Mr French? Are you hankering to give up without a fight?

I will help you get over the breakup if you are leaving because you admit you DON'T WANT TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE. [which is fine]

But I will NOT help you if you are just throwing in the towel because you have wrongly convinced yourself of her FOGBABBLE [which is sounds like] and have pre-emptively surrendered for no good reason. I won't help you be a fool just because you don't - won't - understand the real problem. But no, I won't help someone engage in pre-emptive surrender.

p.s. I suspect you are reading the wrong posts if you haven't caught on yet to what is going on here. If you had been reading posts on the infidelity forum you would KNOW what the real problem in your marriage is. Somehow YOU DON'T.

If you cooperate with someone who is he11bent on destroying your marriage [over a temporary affair] you will have a ..........destroyed marriage. Going to "mediation" with a falling down drunk who is temporarily addicted to an OM is the same as NEGOTIATING WITH A TERRORIST. Only an insane person would do that.

The truth is that if you cooperate, you are more likely to have NO MARRIAGE. If you DON'T COOPERATE, you are more likely to NEVER GET DIVORCED! Most affairs NEVER end up in divorce, unless the BS stupidly goes along with a foghorn. Because if you drag your feet you can outlast this TEMPORARY AFFAIR. TEMPORARY, TEMPORARY. Keep saying that until you understand it.

Your W is trying to make permanent decisions based on a TEMPORARY STATE OF MIND. It is your job as the only sane counterpart in this transaction to not allow that.


bcboy, your best bet is stop listening to fogbabble and stop letting a falling down drunk control and lead your life. THAT IS INSANE, SIR! I don't know who is more fogbound, you or your wife!! At least she has an excuse, you don't! Take back the helm and stop this nonsense!

Hi Mel

Thanks for the reply

I am starting to favour leaving the marriage for the following reasons:
1) Loss of trust in her - This is huge
2) Her continued criticism of me
3) She is not willing to go to MC
4) She is pursuing Legal Separation - Lawyers now involved.
5) Continued contact - underground with OM
6) Her personality disorder -
7) Constant creation of turmoil and chaos - part of personality disorder
8) continually changing requirements from her for what I would need to do to restore the M.
9) Feels I am emotionally abusive.
10) Feels I am emotionally disconnected
11) High level of conflict and tension between us

I think I am being motivated by a fear of being alone, fear of loss, change etc....

She also informed me the other day that she has felt alone for many years and been emotionally disconnected from me for a very long time. (I admit I am not good at emotions, but I don't know what to do about it). During the conversation she stated, "You say I am having an EA, of course I am looking for an emotional connection because I can't do that with you. I wish I could have but I am too tired and emotinally beat up right now, so I need space and time to heal". So if it wasn't an EA with this guy she will likely be looking for some other dude.

I have been very kind and considerate to her. No LB, no DJ. She seems to be immune to Plan A. She is civil to me but I feel the wall between us growing.

I feel there is very little to build on. I am feeling discouraged that because there seems to be little I can do to "fix" the M. She is not interested. I am having to deal with the reality that this relationship seems broken beyond repair, and I am the only one wanting to try to repair it.

I guess I am having to take inventory of the situation. What is the saying "If you are riding a dead horse dismount"?

There is NOTHING you have posted here that is not a DIRECT RESULT of her affair. Do you understand that? All of those points are CLASSIC TRAITS we see in EVERY AFFAIR.

Did you know that? You are not HEARING ME, bcboy. You have described EVERY AFFAIR we see here. You are throwing your marriage away over the symptoms of a TEMPORARY AFFAIR.

You are not listening to us. You are making the biggest mistake of your life.


The horse is only SICK. Your reaction is to do nothing and allow it to die. You want to kill the horse because it is running fever and is weak and can't go far. "Oh no, I don't want a weak horse!" That is what you are saying. Instead of taking steps to make the horse STRONG, you are kicking him to the curb because he is WEAK because of his illness.

Why not take it to the VET? Why not try to make the horse STRONG before you shoot him in the head?

I see your point. Because I am directly involved I am in my own fog. It is easier to see what others need to do, but I am blind in my own situation.

So you have followed my posts. She has started the legal proceedings, what is my next step?

What does that mean EXACTLY? What has she done?

She has contacted a lawyer. Told the lawyer her desire to separate. The lawyer is starting the paperwork. In Canada you can separate with or without the cooperation of the spouse.

I have contacted a lawyer as well and his response was, you can go to protracted legal confrontation but the only difference will be you will spend about 50 - 200 K fighting in court and you will still be separated. If she has already filed the papers the process is in play.

ok, so far she has really done nothing except talk to a lawyer. Do you know if she really even did that? She could have just said that to scare you into compliance. WHICH IN THE PAST HAS WORKED FOR HER!

UNTIL YOU ARE SERVED THIS IS ALL JUST TALK. EMPTY TALK. Do you understand that? It is smoke and mirrors. AGITPROP. So, until you see the papers, don't concern yourself.

Secondly, the lawyer is only concerned with facilitating an amicable, EASY divorce. You are trying to save your marriage. COOPERATING with her will get you DIVORCED. You don't want to get divorced.

So, how about finding a lawyer that will a) fight for you and b) drag things out and c) KEEP YOU IN YOUR HOUSE.

With a separation, can she have you kicked out of your own home?

My suggestion would be to continue to avoid lovebusters, try to meet her needs and continue to STAND FIRM AGAINST HER AFFAIR. She is not entitled to have an adulterous affair. She is not free to DATE until you are legally divorced, you need to continually remind her of that.

And, I have to ask. Has the OM been back on your property or has he been in touch with your wife?

bcb, the thing you are not understanding is that this is NOT YOUR WIFE. Do you even recognize this crazy, bitter woman?

Man, if that statement doesn't describe ALL of us husbands who are victims or betrayal or walk away wives...........................

That hit home like a punch in kisser....

how long between separation and divorce in canada? here in italy is 3 years! used to be 5, we have the Pope here and they really try to make it hard to divorce. the longer the lag the better in your case, i hope is not just months there in canada

bcboy, here is the problem with your situation. You are allowing a drunk to drive the ship. As a result, you are weaving and bobbing all over the bay and going around in crazy circles.

You will continue to do this until you take back the reigns, set a STRATEGY and follow YOUR PLAN.

Her plan is to destroy your marriage because she is TEMPORARILY intoxicated by an affair. Why in the WORLD would you follow her plan?

The reason I am here right now is her friends are encouraging her to leave.

This statement MUST be ANOTHER universal occurance. I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED that this would be the case.....kind of puts a damper on EXPOSURE, narrows the field I suppose..........

wow, you mean she is surrounding herself with ENABLERS?? I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!! :MrEEk:

my H had an A 4 years ago. do not believe everything your W tells you. she is confused and does not even know what her next tought will be. do not be her emotional punch bag. remove yourself from her words and tell yourself she does not mean anything she says. my H could not even remember half of the hurtful things he told me while he was having the A. he went as far as saying "It is not possible that i said that as i will never even dream or think something like that!"
imagine

Oh did you mean the divorced neighbour where they are "just friends'? He has not been on the property but he calls her on her cell phone. By the way did you know that I was blowing this thing way out of proportion? They are just friends, and she is mad as h3ll that I exposed her activities to some neighbours, and that I have slandered her, and ruined her reputation in the neighbourhood.


I am not sure of the differences between the two countries but my lawyer has been notified that the separation is to proceed. I guess that is similar to being served.


I have been doing all of the above. But she is still in touch with OM on her cell. She tells me she will not be looking at reconcilliation. She wants to get on with her life.

As far as a plan goes I admit I am feeling very discouraged as my strategy has not born any fruit at this time. I think I have realized that our relationship is dying. She wants out and has for some time. I just heard from a friend of mine that she had confessed to his wife when they were over for a visit 5 years ago that she was not happy, our relationship was on the rocks and she didn't think we were going to make it. So she has been planning this for a long time. I think the trigger was I just retired and perhaps the prospect of me being around more was the straw that broke the camels back.

According to my lawyer, I can fight this but if she wants to separate the only thing that will happen is we can go broke paying lawyer bills. She will still get the separation.

I know and appreciate what the objective of this forum is. I am thankful for your kind words and kicks in the pants. I also have to weigh out the emotional and other costs. I have lost my respect for her. I used to trust her, but as you know WW lie, and I no longer trust her. For me trust is a VERY big deal, that is becoming a deal breaker for me. I see how easily she decieves now, I see how she manipulates. I don't really think I know this person. She is kicking me to the curb and I got the message.

As far as a plan goes you are right. As of right now I don't have one. I am emotionally and physically drained. Sorry to say butI have run out of ideas. As I have stated it is easier to see a way through someone elses problems than it is my own.

As you have stated I am dealing with a drunk, and that drunk will not listen to anyone. So then what?

Do I start being a hardnose. Cut her off from any financial support. Freeze her out? She already thinks I am controlling. Is it time to start playing hardball? I have been very nice to her, helpful, cooperative, caring. Am I being foolish? I am starting to get very hurt by her over this and I do not want to be taken advantage of.

Good, I am glad to hear that you do not want to be taken advantage of. Even if a separation takes place, stay with this forum. You can still get a lot of support here. Plan A is an effort to make you the best person you can be, a person you are glad to be. It is worth the effort in that regard. I am sorry to hear that you feel so down. Continue Plan A for you. Others will have more to say to you.

BC,

I'm sorry that you are still in this position. I am so not the expert, but it sounds like you are drained and she is h3ll bent on the separation. Maybe it is time for Plan B. Dr. Harley says that when you can't do it anymore, Plan B is the next step.
Trust me, I've been where you are. I did Plan A for far too long I believe, and allowed my WH to talk all over me. Sometimes they need to actually live with OP to find out that it isn't really the match made in heaven that they thought it was......

Anyway, let the experts advise you. And remember, this isn't something that is going to turn around overnight. Sounds like you are expecting faster results. Unfortunately this is a long process that we go through.

BC Boy. I have just finished reading your thread. I rarely post to MB now. But, as you can see, I have been around quite a while.

Mel is giving you great advice. She helped me for a very long time. Hi, Mel!

I am in BC myself. and, after years of trying to work things out with lawyers, watching my legal bills pile up to over 33K, I fired my lawyer. I represented myself in Supreme Court in Victoria. I live on the Mainland.

I did very well, if I do say so myself. The court clerk suggested I apply for a job.:) So, I would consider myself somewhat of an "expert" on federal and family law wth regards to adultery, finances and the whole process.

The point of this being, I would be very happy to help you. There are a couple of things I noticed in your posts that suggest that you could be setting yourself up for a big shock if you do not take care of your financial assets.

I dealt with one of the worst serial cheaters for a very long time. The depths of his lying and cruelty still astounds me. But, as you can see by my screen name, I am well, ummmmmm feisty!

I will be happy to give you some suggestions on steps you need to take here in BC.

This is what ALL affairees say. They say they have been out of love for years. This is called FOGBABBLE.

But I have already told you this. Many times. And that is all anyone here can do.

my H just told me he really did not love me for a long time. this is not true, till a few months ago he used to tell me he loved me.

This is what ALL affairees say. They say they have been out of love for years. This is called FOGBABBLE.
I understand that it IS fogbabble, because its been repeated in just about EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE of adultry. But, is it always necessarily NOT TRUE? My wife has said it to me. EVERYTHING indicates that she REALLY feels that way. Is FOGBABBLE STRICTLY a term used with an affair only?? Thanks.

gabagool, I am talking about the RULE, not the exception. I don't know if the babblings of a falling down drunk are true or not in every case.[I doubt if the falling down drunk even knows what is true] In almost every case we have seen here, it is NOT TRUE and the BS can even demonstrate it is not true with recent loveletters, cards, etc.

Even so, it doesn't matter if its true or not, because the remedy is the same.

Is your wife in an affair, gaba?

How can I contact you as I am open to any suggestions and options at this point.


I agree Mel has been great. I do understand the fog babble part of this. The frustrating part is not being able to have much influence over the actions of the other person you have placed your love and trust in for years. It is sick and cruel.

Thank you for taking the time to post.

I understand Mel. Thanks.

The point of my bringing this up was this confession took place about 5 years ago, so her resentment and anger has been building since that time.

Like a fool I was optimistic that things were slowly improving as there was less conflict, what was really happening was she was withdrawing. Hindsight is 20 - 20.

This challenge is trying to retain perspective when you are feeling beat up, confused, angry, hopeful, discouraged, sad, lonely, anxious, depressed, sick. I literally cried for the first time in many years over this situation. The pain and sorrow has been intense. As many who have been here know the rollercoaster ride you are on is more than bearable at times.

One hopes things can be worked out on one hand, yet you have to prepare yourself incase it cannot be resolved. It feels like walking a razor blade in bare feet, you get injured in the process, and one slip can be disaterous. I know what I want to do but I cannot predict the behaviour of my W, I cannot control what she is doing.

Then I begin to wonder how long can a person live in such craziness. There are complications in my situation as well. It seems my W has traits of a personality disorder and one of those traits is if there is no apparent crisis then one will be created. Living in this chaos takes its toll on your mental well being. That is why most of my friends and two of my children have said to me -"You have been very tolerent I think you will be better off on your own" "Get away from the craziness". Intellectually I understand what they are saying and I appreciate there care and concern. The issue is I am still attached emotionally, even though my wife tells me how out of touch and disconnected I am to my emotions.

I have buried my mother and father, and I think dealing with death is easier than dealing with marital issues like this. Death has a finality to it. This is prolonged and painful. Nothing prepares you for this sort of situation. It is like being in a car accident, you get injured, you go into shock, you try to get help. This forum has been my lifeline. I literally thought I was going nuts until I found this place. Maybe I am going nuts I have friends that would agree with that LOL.

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to post. I reread my entire post again last night and believe it or not I do hear what you are saying. I do realize I do get lost in my own fog through this process. I am having difficulty seeing the forest for the trees, so thanks for your patience and persistance in gettng through to me. And thanks for letting me ramble on. It is theraputic and helps to clarify my thoughts to dialogue on her.

For those of you who are so inclined I would appreciate your prayers for wisdom and strength.

Well, you are going to have to take better care of yourself. For awhile, you will need to meet many of your emotional needs yourself.

I don't know what you are interested in, but start doing things. Exercise, go out with friends, join a upport or hobby group, detail the car, organize the garage, volunteer, start a business, whatever.....

These things will bring up your general satisfaction and self-esteem.

In the meantime, I would stop talking to your wife about relationship issues. Just enjoy yourself and keep busy.

Also, move back into your own bed.

Would she go do something fun with you? I would try that, and if she refuses, go alone, and come back and tell her how much fun you had. The idea is to see if she would spend any time at all with you doing things she likes. It might take some time.

You can slowly turn this thing around. I think it sounds very promising.

Hi, Believer. How are you doing?

bcboy, another great vet is helping you.

There are some things that a lot of adulterers do. First of all, I have found through personal experience, that a lot of them play the woe is me, I am not happy and haven't been in oh, such a long time. And yes, often it includes the speaking to a friend.

However, that is an "out" for them in my opinion. After all, if they had stuck it out after they have "shared" their unhappiness, well then they "tried", didn't they.

A big load of manure imho. Trying is not 'doing' is it? I have found that so very often, after a false recovery, the WS says' "Well, I tried, didn't I?". When all the while the trying is leaving the door open to run away from thei family and their vows.

Plus,instead of sharing a confidence with a friend, if they had been up front with their partner/spouse, would that not have caused some action reaction and an effort to make things better between you? I firmly believe that all this woe is me is emotional blackmail and frankly, abuse. All wrapped up in an I gotta be me package that gives the WW or WH a big fat excuse for being a faithless partner.

And on that note, I will back off, to leave you in the great vets on this board. As I am not sure it is helpful to you at this point to hear of my own experience and opinions.

Still not that I can tell, I think she will end up a walk away wife...its been a year of this garbage and I STILL can't believe it.

Also, ML, you and others have been telling BC to move back into his bed.....I don't understand. With HIS WIFE IN THE SAME BED??!!!?!?? Or are you saying kick her out of bed?

I understand exposing, I understand the wisdom behind plan a and plan b, but this sleeping with your wife when she wants to VOMIT just looking at you.....man, sleeping together IS SUPPOSED to be an
action of love, of complete and utter trust, of protection, warmth and comfort...the sex is just icing on the cake! I could never, so I can understand why BC would feel like sleeping alone.

Is telling him to go back to his bed a way of showing hes a tough guy or something? please explain, thanks.

Well, who wants to share a bed with someone who might vomit on them?

But the point is, SHE is unhappy in the bed, and SHE should address that by sleeping in the basement, in her car, or moving out. It is not his problem.

Affairees are selfish creatures. If they don't like the living accomodations in the marital home, they need to be the one who moves.

Not at all. Its a way of treating her to the consequences of her choices. If he moves back into his own bed, TO WHICH HE HAS A RIGHT, she has a choice. She can either sleep with him and get used to it, or SHE can go sleep on the floor.

If she does not want to sleep with her H, then why should HE be the one to get kicked out of his own bed? That is ridiculous! If she wants to sleep separately, then she should be the one who experiences the consequences of that choice, NOT HER HUSBAND.

What kind of a JERK kicks a man out of his own bed? And why would you EMBOLDEN such a jerk by appeasing her?

I just don't understand men sometimes. If a man came home and tried to kick a wife out of her own bed and her own room, she would LAUGH! Why do men allow themselves to be pushed around like that? You men are just too wimpy sometimes.

If she wants to vomit when he is in the marital bed, I would suggest she sleep in the bathroom, that way she will be close to the porcelain god and not make such a mess.

OTOH, his marital bed is the bedrock of where the M started and was consumated. Why would any man in his right mind give that up. this is much more about what WW gave up by her unfaithfulness, and the consequence of no longer desiring to be in the marital bed rests solely on her, not the BS.

Gabo, no one said the BS kicked her out of her bed. If she leaves it, as she has already done metaphorically, it's all on her , not the BS.

I never gave up my bed, but did on several occasions, ask WW to sleep elsewhere, as she was no longer welcolmed in my marital bed. But that was a long time ago, and things have changed for the better since then.

she understands, the boundaries now.

All Blessings,
Jerry

I left my bed BEFORE my wife began this walkaway krap. It was a combo of no sexlife, her complaining about the way I slept (or didn't) and I just felt like she couldn't stand me.

I now feel that THAT was my SINGLE BIGGEST MISTAKE. I never should have left that room. Now, I see it as ME getting the ball rolling.


Yeah, BC, you should move back to the room, on second thought. It's gonna be rough, but a sacrifice NOW may pay off big in the future.

Well a WW who wants to cake eat thats who. I am more than a little ticked off right now. You are absolutely right why try to appease someone who bold face lies to you. Well tonight I just did up a couple of scenarios for her so she can see what the division of assets would look like. GULP - not such a rosy picture for her. She is really upset that she will be facing a change in lifestyle.



Well not any more folks. After watching her do her little temper tantrum about how she will have to get a mortgage I mentioned to her that she said to me "I can't think about the money right now I have to look after my happiness" and that she is the moving party in wanting to separate then it is not my problem that she does not like the outcome.

So if you want to act so disrespectfully then look out for the consequences. I asked her last night if she has been in contact with the OM. Oh noooooo I have not heard from him, "you have blown this waaaayyy out of proportion, have you apologized to him yet????" Well low and behold I check and find out that he has been calling her every two days, imagine that, a WW caught in a lie. So if she thinks she can try and kick me to the curb, and treat me with so much disrespect then forget it sister this cowboy is moving on. I am no ones doormat. You want to go find yourself then good luck to you.

Every man has his limit and I think I just reached mine. Lady you want to be independent then your wish is my command.

GG - Who says you can't undo a mistake? What's she going to do? Give you more of the same? So...start by taking naps in there and letting her catch you being comfortable in your own bed again.

Then one night go to bed before her and stay there. Get that ball rolling...

Sooly

Just wanted to get some feedback from here. My wife has continued down the road of separation. Her view is we just separate for about 1 year, keep everything the way it is financially, where we both live out of the same bank account. My response is I am not interested in separating I am interested in working on our marriage. She also tells me I am her problem. She is very angry and disrespectful when ever she speaks to me. I am continuing to be polite and pleasant. She is focusing on issues that happened 20 years ago and cannot see I have changed my behaviour. My kids have said to me "Dad you have changed, but Mom refuses to see it, if she acknowledges you have changed she will no longer have a scapegoat"

Today she said she talked to the lawyer last week and the lawyer told her I have no business in her personal life. She has done nothing wrong, but she may as well have because she is being tarred with the same brush as if she has. She is still angry that I confronted her "friend". I also suspect she enjoyed the attention and invited it. The exposure seems to have dampened the contact between the two of them.

I get this written note. "We are not working on the marriage right now, we are seperated - which means living apart and working on our individual issues - which can't be done living together (has been tried) now we recognize that and try separation with a hope to reconcilliation. Do you understand why we need to be apart?"

I don't understand this, as I think this sounds like an excuse for her to get her space and to test drive some other relationships. As I was doing some investigation I discovered she had a singles newspaper ad clipped out and was hiding it. But she keeps saying she is not interested in starting another relationship.

She is not willing to work on the marriage. But she does not want the consequences of separation financially. But she insists on separation physically. No negotiation on that one.

It seems to me if you insist on separation then you separate. Am I missing something here? This is becoming increasingly confusing.

Is there ever an end to the turmoil, pain and confusion?

" It seems my W has traits of a personality disorder and one of those traits is if there is no apparent crisis then one will be created. Living in this chaos takes its toll on your mental well being. That is why most of my friends and two of my children have said to me -"You have been very tolerent I think you will be better off on your own" "Get away from the craziness". "

Most of your friends and at least two of your children are BEGGING you to get away from this toxic woman and regain your ability to have a normal life. Please listen to them!

This woman wants your money, and the easy lifestyle that is all. She is acting heinously. And has been even before this affair. You are so used to it that you still love her, as heinous as she is as a person and as miserable as she makes you and all those around her.

Please buy a clue and divorce her. If you want a life free of daily heartache.

"I am starting to favour leaving the marriage for the following reasons:
1) Loss of trust in her - This is huge
2) Her continued criticism of me
3) She is not willing to go to MC
4) She is pursuing Legal Separation - Lawyers now involved.
5) Continued contact - underground with OM
6) Her personality disorder -
7) Constant creation of turmoil and chaos - part of personality disorder
8) continually changing requirements from her for what I would need to do to restore the M.
9) Feels I am emotionally abusive.
10) Feels I am emotionally disconnected
11) High level of conflict and tension between us

Please read what you wrote here. It is really important. You are worth having a good life. This toxic woman will ruin the rest of your life affair or no affair.

"I think I am being motivated by a fear of being alone, fear of loss, change etc...."

Yes, I understand you wanting to fight for the marriage since you have been with this toxic woman so long it almost seems normal for you. It does take some adjusting to be away from a person we have been with for 20 years. Even if they are very bad or toxic for us. But your kids are grown. You can now leave her.

bcboy

How are you?

Just wondering. Hope you are okay. : )

I am bumping this for the benefit of Geno that Melody has been helping.

Also just an update.
1) Tnanks to Melody Lane I have been continuing on with Plan A. Wife is pursing the separation still.
2) Son is having difficulty and is expressing anger towards his mother wondering why she can't get along with his dad.
3) I have repeatedly told my wife I do not want to separate.
4) Wife is playing the role of a martyr as she is saying she knows that the person who decides to separate is viewed as the bad person (which really upsets her as she needs to be viewed in a positive light at all times) - (she is even making comments that she is prepared to loose her family because of her actions)
5) Children are viewing her behaviour as peculiar and they are dealing with it by distancing (or limiting contact) themselves from her.
6) She will soon have to economically support herself as a result of her decision to separate. This will likely be a real wake up call for her as she does not make much.
7) Friends have been calling her questioning what she is doing. Some have been very pointed in telling her what she is doing is wrong.
8) Wife is concerned her reputation has been damaged because I have exposed her relationship with the neighbour.
9) Friends have been telling her she is not free to pursue another relationship even though she is separated, she is still married.
10) Believe it or not I have reason to believe there has been no PA (she is absolutely paranoid about STD's), however I feel she definately been involved in an EA. I have still told her this is adultery.
11) I am making plans to be the best man God wants me to be. I am looking at taking a training course and then travel overseas to help underpriveledged people (part of my therapy)
12) I will be doing everything possible to get a better connection between my head and my heart. I have been very successful at being rational and have been told I am good at strategic planning, but I am really bad at recognizing emotions. I was brought up believing that real MEN don't have them or need them (Think John Wayne) and learned how to stuff them. I am slowly starting to understand but need Gods help and mercy in this area.

13) I have read many womens frustrations with their husbands, that they are not meeting emotional needs. I suspect there are many men (like me) who have very little idea about emotions (good at doing, fixing, thinking) they don't know their own emotions so be patient with your men ladies, it is not intentional, we have just not connected the way you have. I know it seems improbable because it comes so easily and natural for you. But in my case you really are speaking a foreign language.

So I have learned I am not always in control of my situation. There are some situations you just have to accept and make the best of.

God Bless