Hello All.

My story is super long but what I really need is advice on exposure. I've emailed the radio show and agreed to be on the show on Tuesday, but I feel like I need to get this exposure thing done ASAP.

Little background: My WH and I have been together 11 years, married 6.5 years. We have a 3 year old daughter and I'm 17 weeks pregnant with our 2nd. My husband was hospitalized for a severe manic and psychotic episode in September-October 2013. He was diagnosed with Bipolar disorder, Manic with psychotic features. It was a horrific experience for all of us and he blames me for the current state of his life. He is completely unlike himself, is rude to me, says I betrayed him, says he doesn't love me anymore, and a lot of other really mean things. Among the symptoms of bipolar, he is very hypersexual and extra flirty with woman and doing things "just to feel good" like drinking (even though he is on a court order not to drink). He is also not taking his medications as ordered by the court order. The court got involved while he was hospitalized because they felt he was a danger to himself and/or others. He is extremely aggressive in posturing, staring, yelling, and swearing. He doesn't believe he has a mental illness and is having a hard time coming to terms with it.

At the beginning of November, I had a gut feeling and I snooped in his phone. I discovered he had started having an inappropriate relationship with my best friend's husband's sister. This was before I discovered MB. I didn't expose at the time. I confronted him. He denied. I asked him to stop, he said he would and he was sorry. He wouldn't give me access to his phone but I was able to break in several times throughout the last month and have evidence that the affair has continued. In fact, on the 23rd, I GPSd and found him at a hotel with her and kinda went a little nuts myself. He claims the affair has not become a physical affair that would involve being naked or contracting STDS, which I don't necessarily believe.

I asked the OW to stop contact with him, pleading that she did not understand what he was dealing with currently. She denied anything but friendship, although her text messages say different. After I busted them several times, she texted me and said she was done talking to him and she was sorry.

Fast forward to today: My husband is currently being hospitalized again, and I finally had access to his phone to snoop some more and discovered that, of course as suspected, the affair had not ended. He created a new random skype account just so they could have private correspondence so when I was checking his regular skype, it wouldn't appear as though they were communicating. He had texted her as I was driving him to the hospital to be admitted!

OW is living with her ex fiance because her ex feels sorry for her and her 15 year old daughter and has allowed them to stay even though the relationship is over. OW is an alcoholic and get drunk nearly every night and texts WH to go pick her up. She is obviously in a very dark place in her life as well.

OW's immediate family is aware but not doing anything about it. OWs story is that WH is in love with her and I'm the desperate wife who can't let go. She isn't fully aware of his current mental instability and I think pretty ignorant. I want to expose to her daughter, ex-fiance, ex-fiance's parents and other FB friends (ex-fiance's dad is OW and ex-fiance's boss).

I have exposed to many of our friends, but there are sure alot more people I will/can expose to.

My question is: Do you think exposure will work for someone who is currently untreated for a mental illness? I think exposure will work for OW because she has a lot to lose. WH is currently getting treatment and he is still manic so, I can't fully blame his actions, but it doesn't make it okay and he's still denying. I confronted him again today. He said he wanted to see proof that he was lying to me. Will exposure damage my chance to get my healthy husband back?

Do I use the same template as shown in Exposure 101? Do I add that my husband is bipolar and getting treatment?

HELP! I'm so stressed.

You have so many more problems here than just an affair that I would wait to speak to Dr Harley. What a nightmare for you all. So sorry for the reasons that have brought you here.

Thank you, MelodyLane. I figured that would be the case.

So sorry Fancy, for your pain.

While you wait to talk to Dr. Harley I found some clips that Dr. Harley talks about Bi-polar. I hope they might help.

Radio Clip on Bi-polar
Segment #2
Segment #3

My wife had an affair with manic depressed man.
I did expose it (he intercepted my email to his wife) to his family and facebook friends.

He was married to a woman that is a nurse in children's hospital.
She divorced him over this.
I've always wondered, Why was she with this man yhat is an addict, mentally ill and non working?

Personally I think he will just use his mental illness as an excuse

Thank you, BrainHurts. I appreciate you taking the time to do that. I was trying to find info on the website that related to bipolar.

Jedi_Knight, he's in complete denial of his illness at the moment and claims that he is in control and making choices he feels he needs to to "feel good" since his life is so crappy.
So I guess, I'll have to see what happens when he gets more stable if he stays on these meds that he's just started. And, I ask myself that same question: Why is he with this woman who is an alcoholic, has no education or aspirations, and someone he wouldn't normally socialize with?

Ever hear of "affair down"? People don't usually have affairs with people better than them.

Update: Went on the show yesterday. Dr Harley recommended Plan B and to expose as he believes the affair is the "garden variety type". I did ask if I should share that he is bipolar, and I did chose to share it with her side of the exposure because she was telling people that he was in love with her and I was the desperate wife who couldn't let go. I wanted her family and friends to know the whole truth. Most of our family and friends know he is struggling with it already, the affair is a shock to all of them.

My WH is getting new treatment and has been on medication for a few days. I haven't seen him or communicated with him. He apparently hasn't read my PBL. I exposed the affair all day yesterday. It felt good to tell the truth and not live a pretend life anymore.

The OW texted me and said I was childish for "airing out my problems to the world" and she threatened to sleep with my WH to get back at me. She said he didn't love me anymore and that he would have stopped if he did, that he obviously wants to be with her because he's lying and risking his family to see her. I didn't entertain her, just told her I was telling the truth and the truth sets me free.

I talked with the OW ex-fiance's mother, who shared with me that the ex had the OW's belongings moved out of the house recently because she was refusing to move out. His mom told me she was glad that her son was no longer involved with this woman.

Apparently, the OW hasn't shared with anyone that her engagement was broken off 10 months ago, and that she wasn't even living there anymore as of recently since she came home one day to find her belongings moved. Even her family didn't know.

I'm feeling good about Plan B. I'm prepared to do what I need to do to protect myself and my children. The ball is in his court now and we'll see if he returns. Thanks for trying to help!

You have done very, very well Fancy. Take care of yourself and your babies.

As you can see, she's nuttier than a fruitcake. As if having an affair is not childish. Everybody needs a support network in life, especially people who are victims of an affair. She's the last person in the world to be offering life advice.

I heard most of your show yesterday - sounds like you are doing very well following the plan. I suspect you can look forward to some peace and calm and protection now.

Do you have an Intermediary for plan B?

Be sure to let your OB or Midwife know what you're going through, so she can better take care of you and the baby.

But, if you keep to a tight Plan B, you are going to find some relief in the next few weeks. Keep it airtight. Don't let yourself dwell on their drama.

Hi Fancy! I just heard your call and am so glad you got to speak to Dr Harley. I was worried most about your safety so I was reluctant to give you any advice about the affair.

Glad to hear you have exposed the affair. Do you have an intermediary for your Plan B? Have you blocked any avenues of contact from your husband?

Thanks, Prisca and Markos. I appreciate the support.

Yes, I do have an intermediary for Plan B. It is a good friend of ours who lives close by. Her sister has Bipolar so she understands the illness too. She is very supportive of the Plan and is enforcing it. I am blocking his number and getting a pay as you go phone for my daughter so he can call her on that phone.

My OB does know about my husband's condition and she's been regularly checking with. I'm so glad I found this website. Thank you all!!!

Has your IM seen this thread?
IM Training School

You are amazing! I heard your call too, and I admire your strength. Plan B is a great idea. Take good care of yourself and your babies.

Prisca, I've sent to to her already. Thanks!! And, Thank you BlairBluefin, I hope I was able to help someone else too.

You sound so well under the circumstances. Good job on exposure.

Oh believe me, there have been many tears, many days of "should I just give up?", many hours and minutes spent on wondering what the best route is. Dealing with the bipolar disorder and the affair while pregnant has definitely taken a toll on me. I have a wonderful support system and wouldn't be able to do it without all of my friends and family. I am also so thankful for this website. I've read many stories of people who's WS's affairs went on for months and months before they discovered MB and I don't know if I would have been able to handle that. I'm glad to found this website when I did, because oh my gosh, it was a blessing to have a program all laid out and it perfectly fit the situation I was in (except the bipolar disorder), but I felt so ready and prepared to deal with this affair head on. My marriage is worth fighting for and I will do what I can, but now I know if it ends, I gave it 110% and I can walk away feeling like the effort wasn't wasted.

Newest development: I got a few responses to my exposure FB message from her friends/family.

One person told me it wasn't their business

One person got mad at me for "getting other people involved" and said they can't control what their friend does. She also said it takes two to tango and I shouldn't only be blaming her friend. I told her no where in my letter did I say my husband wasn't at fault. I said "they are having an affair", what part of that sounds like its one sided? Then I saw her post on her FB later that she's in the middle of other people's business but it's her fault that she didn't say something sooner.

Another person wrote me back and said "this is FB no one kares about your marriage life". Yes, he spelled cares with a "k". The funny thing is this guy just found out his wife was cheating on him and he's on FB calling her a h** all day long.

So it just goes to show that the company of the OW seem to lack morals and don't respect marriage anyways. Way to go, WH! Stellar company.

In my experience this:



means they knew and feel guilty for being a chicken

this:



Means they knew and actively supported them to "follow their heart". If you recover this dangerous and fanciful person needs to be blackballed.



Sounds like a wayward himself. Often they falsely claim they are the victims of adultery.

Sounds like you did great and rattled the chicken coops of the enablers nicely.

It did feel good. I did get a few apologetic responses today now too. OW's cousin said she would do what she can and expose it to the rest of the family.

My message even got instagrammed by one of the OW friends! Thanks for doing the work for me buddy! More exposure is what it needed. Then it quickly got removed a few hours later. LOL.

It is hilarious that friends of OW are helping you with exposure. You're doing a great job!

Good job

I need strength. Im getting sucked in to the negativity. I just checked our phone logs. I know I shouldn't have looked. *sigh*

I don't even know if he's read the PBL yet. He just hasn't communicated because he told his best friend that I can't not communicate with him and he was going to burn the letter. That I can't make him read it. He hasn't asked to see our daughter through the IM, so I'm sure he's not read the letter.

Today was his first day back to work since 9/16. Hoping for a good day.

How did you guys do it?

I exposed last week and got a similar response. OW's little sister said this isn't OW's fault and I shouldn't blame her. It's appalling how little respect people have for marriage.

I listened to you on the radio show and I have to agree with everyone here about how well you are doing.

The phone logs are horrible! I would get so worked up about the dang phone logs that I made myself sick to my stomach. It's not healthy.

I'm in the same boat, so I can't give you much guidance. I'm thinking of you and your kids. Stay strong for them. I can't even imagine doing this while pregnant, so I'm thinking of you.

Don't look at them! Distract yourself and start thinking about how to plug any potential holes in your Plan.

Cyllanlisa is right. Don't look at the phone logs. You can have your IM save that information for later if it is needed. Plan B is to remove you from the drama and the pain. Read through the thread "How to Plan B correctly" to make sure the holes are plugged.

Also, document everything. Your documentation may be needed later.

Take extra care of you and your babies right now. Are you eating well? Do you have family nearby for extra support?

I'm trying to remember to eat well. :P I have lots of family and his family supports me as well.

After months of hearing, ILYBINIWY, I guess I don't know what to expect. A part of me is hoping that it is the illness, a part of me believes it stems from our issues we had prior to the manic episode. The truth is it's probably both.

I just can't stand to know that he's risking his entire life to be with someone like her, and not even really "be with her". I mean, they only have conversations late into the night after the bar closes and hardly if ever even go out together. I did catch them at a hotel one time, though.
I think I probably exposed it on our side to like 100 people. My WH is pretty popular and has friends in many circles. I didn't expose to his work friends since he was going back to work today after being gone 3 months, and I didn't want there to be tension there since he's irritable from the Bipolar Disorder. I will expose to them once he's been back a while.

Then I start feeling like it's my fault. *sigh*

Thanks for all your support, LifeIsBetter, cyllanlisa and BlairBluefin. I did read How to Plan B Correctly when I set it up. I'll read through it again.

Also, what do you do if WS doesn't read PBL?

Have you seen this?
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT

Also, what are your self-care plans for the weekend?

During PB self-care is very important. If he breaks your PBL conditions then you have your IM resend him the PBL.

Great advice in the DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT thread. I've been documenting our interactions, but hadn't even thought about documenting everything I do for our DD and the new baby. Thanks, BrainHurts!!

As for self-care, I have a few friends coming over for dinner tonight. Actually, it's WH's best friend from college and his wife. They are coming in from out of town to see his wife's family and wanted to check in on DD and I. I'm going Christmas shopping with a girlfriend Saturday. I have a dinner date with some old co-workers on Sunday. And I have plans for a mini-spa day on Tuesday for a facial, massage and eyebrow wax.

SOOOOOOOo..... WH texted me today to say he wanted to pick up DD tomorrow after her naptime. I responded that he should read the PBL. He stated he would not be making arrangements to see his DD through a third party and that we are adults and should be able to talk like adults about DD and household related items.

I said: Read the letter.

He called and said I was making it impossible for him to see his own daughter and he shouldn't have to go through an intermediary, and he wouldn't. He said if that was the way I wanted it then he just wouldn't see his daughter.

I told him: Read the letter. It explains everything. I'm already breaking my own terms by talking to you but because I know you haven't read the letter, you don't know the terms, so I'm telling you, I will have no contact with you. I will not see you or communicate with you. If you want to see DD, you will do so through the IM. It is up to you to be a responsible father.

He tried to say it was me preventing him from seeing his daughter. He wasn't going to do anything of the sort. He said he was declining to read the letter and that if I had something to share I could tell him.

I said: Read the letter.

He said he's under the impression that I've already made up my mind about the relationship since I exposed it to everyone. That exposing it wasn't going to give me the result I wanted. He said your actions don't indicate to me that you want to be in the relationship anymore anyways (meaning kicking him out and exposing to everyone) He told me that if I changed my mind and wanted my daughter to see her father, he would come pick her up at our house tomorrow.

I said: Read the letter and arrange it through IM.

I hung up on him.

His best friend also told me, WH said he's not going to take the medications. So, looks like I'm headed towards a Plan D folks.

Fancy, change your cell phone number and all other contact information.

Yes Fancy.

When can you change all your contact information?

Yes you can't consider yourself in Plan B until you do this!

Your IM will be ignored while he can reach you/blame you/drive you crazy.

It's like hiring a bouncer but leaving all the back doors open.

I would also make it clear that you don't want to hear any second hand gossip or news of him at all. you are in a dark plan B and mention of him is taboo. Make that clear.

In Plan B the wayward's goal is to disrupt your piece and keep you involved in affair land. He needs you as a victim and blame-holder to keep things going. He also needs the ENs you meet like, FC and co-parenting or the affection implied by jealousy. Tough luck to him.

He'll send notes, he will pass messages through friends, he'll intercept you at places he expects you to be. I heard of one who left a note on the car.

You need to be prepared to plug any and all gaps. Any friend who acts as a messenger must be cut off. Any letters thrown out unread.

If he wants contact, he has the IM. If he doesn't want to use the IM, then I guess he is on his own, now isn't he?

Is your IM trained in keeping it factual?

Ok. Done.

Ive also blocked his number and the other day, I set his emails to bounce back to him and forward to IM.

IM and I have talked extensively about only discussing DD and Finances. I've sent her all the links on this board regarding IM duties. She is aware of her role and willing to follow through exactly as it is set up.

Do people keep up Plan B even after a divorce?

It is a good idea to do so, to maintain Plan B after divorce, for your own emotional well-being.

Thanks, Karmarose. I was thinking it was probably something most people did.

Yes. Alot of BS have stayed in Plan B after D. You don't want to be "friends" after the D. That would be every Wayward's dream.

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of Fancy's Show
Segment #2
Segment #3

Thanks!

How are things? How are you doing?

I'm doing okay. I have a few good friends who are standing by me with my decision to continue Plan B.

WH has recently tried different ways to get a hold of me like calling different friends and having them tell me to call him, calling my work line (I blocked him). He is refusing to use the IM for any communication and would rather not see our daughter at all saying I'm making it unreasonable for him and we should be able to talk like adults.

He's been trying to make amends with his parents. He ended up crashing at his parents house on Christmas Eve and so I had to change my plans. I just dropped off DD for the day and came back later on the evening to pick her up. He tried to engage with me and I ignored him. I just picked up DD and left. His mother doesn't understand my position and she feels like I'm being harsh especially because she thinks he's trying. He still hasn't read my Plan B letter according to the IM. He told her that it would be too painful and he knows what it says. She told him what the terms are for communication to resume. He refuses although he says the affair has ended, but I have no proof.

I have a few friends who I have decided I can not share things with because they don't want to pick sides so they are telling him things about me and how I am doing.

I met with 2 different family law attorneys. One attorney who had personal experience with a family member with an mental illness says of all the people she's consulted, I am the most vulnerable. My livelihood relies too much on him and he's unstable. It seems I'm headed in the direction for a divorce. WH has stopped taking medications and our IM fears WH is only on a deadly spiral downwards.

Thanks for the update. You're doing so well and smart that you don't share with the friends that are trying to give you updates. Keep protecting yourself. Tell them "please don't share anything with me about WH because I need to protect myself from the pain he causes me".

If he was serious about recovery he would read your PBL and show you by his actions that he wants to recover.

How is your self-care going?

That's exactly it. I don't feel that he's sincere about recovery since he's unwilling to read my letter and so I have to stand my ground and not allow contact.

It just shows me that he's still only thinking about himself and his own needs versus the needs of our marriage.

I think I'm doing okay in the self-care arena. We spent a good chunk of time with my family over the Christmas holiday and that was good. I'm eating regularly and sleeping fine. Some nights were hard with tossing and turning with nightmares about the affair and me pushing him into her arms with doing Plan B, but I have noticed that without him here, I am at more peace on a regular basis. I needed this especially for the baby. The kids are really what keep me going. I have my 20 week ultrasound on Monday the 30th, so I hope it goes well.

You are doing BRILLIANTLY, Fancy.



I have, and I will never leave it!!! Plan B is like my very own beautiful protective castle. Indeed, WXH showed up on the doorstep last Christmas Eve with a long face. This Christmas I was not at home, and probably never will be again

Food for thought - I think your IM could be giving you less 'light' and could create a darker plan for you. Stuff like, his not reading the Plan B letter could have gone unmentioned. After all, who cares? The man can read and was given a shot - it matters not when he does read it, or if he will. What she notices regarding his state of mind can similarly go in the so-what-no-need-to-mention bin. I know this will be hard and feel unnatural, especially if you two are affectionate friends, but with practice it will cease to matter and you won't even think to discuss it.

You will both be having way too much girlie Plan B fun to bother about his silly foggy head at all. (Ask me how I know!!!)

Thank you, Indiegirl for your insight. I appreciate your suggestions.

Although, it's hard for us to not discuss his mental stability at all because of his manic/psychotic episode and I do worry that he will end up hurting himself or someone else. As Dr. Harley described, people, men especially with bipolar disorder can become very violent and even end up killing themselves or someone else. It does feel unnatural, as I do love him and don't want him to die. The mental illness and the affair are two very separate issues and I do want to handle them accordingly. I won't be engaging with him and I know I need to stand up for myself. Plan B has been a blessing, even if it isn't super duper dark with knowledge of his overall mental health. I do feel like I've taken control back of my life.

My involvement in his mental health care is a part of my Plan B terms for reconciliation. He needs to allow me to be 100% involved in his mental health care and I want him to be on medications if we are to continue our lives together. It's the only way.

The divorce process is underway and only time can tell what will happen. I have to do this for myself and for my children.

I agree that he is still very much in foggy-land. And I will not bend on my terms. Thank you so much for all the support. I am so glad I found this website. Saved my sanity!

Thats good.

I worry about you with your WH not taking his meds and becoming more unstable. Do you need a restraining order to protect you and the kids from him? I completely agree with you that you should be 100% involved with his mental health if he chooses to recover. As Indie points out, your WH can read. It isn't good enough that he is "trying" - he needs to be DOING to demonstrate a willingness to change.

Take care of yourself and your babies. You have done so well at protecting yourself with Plan B! Simply fabulously awesome!

I completely agree with him having to be DOING vs. just saying that he's trying. Trying is definitely not enough.

I'm not sure if I want to do a restraining order yet. I have the paperwork if I need it and I discussed it with his case manager. She said if I do file the restraining order it complicates things with the court on his mental health needs. I don't feel threatened by him at the moment because his mania has dramatically subsided and he's not focused on violence and anger. He's sort of going the opposite direction and becoming very depressed. It's an option, and I'll use it if I need to.

He finally used the IM to request contact with DD today! YAY! All other avenues for contact with me are blocked and he knows it. He's picking DD up from her grandma's and dropping her off there tomorrow morning. He almost backed out and said nevermind. I didn't want to disappoint my DD since I already had dropped her off, had her packed and told her she was spending some time with her dad tonight and she was so excited. It would have broken my heart to tell her he wasn't coming, but I had the IM double check and WH said he would get her. I don't know why he was trying to back out.

I had to remind his mother not to get involved in the arranging. She wants everything to work out and so she thinks I'm being harsh by not talking to WH. I had to remind her it was for my own protection and asked her to stay out of it and let the IM handle the communication.

Question regarding divorce. In your experience, does it make sense to have IM tell WS that the divorce process is starting or should I just let the lawyers handle that?

Part of Plan B is separating yourself from the drama of your WH. I would let the lawyers handle the communications regarding divorce. Your IM should only be passing on information about emergencies or if your WH has suddenly become willing to stop his affair and recover the marriage.

Another side question - have you asked your attorney if he/she can put in writing in any divorce decree paperwork that your WH can only have supervised visitation? How are you going to protect your babies from him as he becomes more and more unstable? Do you have a plan for this?

Basically you only use the IM to communicate stuff the lawyers cannot. Also it should only be things you specifically need him to know, like Tuesday's childcare is off or your cheque bounced or something. So let the lawyers do it.

Ideally you will get in to a visitation/financial routine that is so systematic that the IM wil be very rarely needed. Even IM stuff is still 'light'.

I have talked with my lawyer about requesting full physical and legal custody of our kids. I am asking for supervised visits only.

I'm in the middle of reading SAA so I hope I'll get some answers soon. WH told IM he's ended the affair and is ready to come back and commit to our marriage and that he is going to give it his all to make it work. I want him to start taking medications before we really get started on any reconciliation. I need to read more about what he should do to show me he means it before I start talking to him. How does it even start? Do I reach out to him ? Do I unblock him?

This is good. You are on top of things!



Has your IM told you that your WH has agreed to all of the EP's as specified in your Plan B letter? Is he apologetic and remorseful? Has he stopped contact with the OW? And yes, he needs to start taking medication.

The vets will be along to help soon. They can usually detect immediately if your WH is ready and willing to move to Recovery. Hang in there for now.

She said he seems remorseful and apologetic. He said he has cut off communication by deleting skype (this was their main form of contact). He said he's going to start taking medications on 1/1/14. He said I can be 100% involved in his health care. He said he's writing a no contact letter. He said he's willing to get STD testing done. He said he's willing to give me access to his phone/email/voicemail, etc. He said he's not willing to change his phone number because he thinks it's unnecessary. He said he should just be able to block her and have the willpower to not call her or return her phone calls if she calls. He says he's not going to disclose all of the details of the relationship because he doesn't want to live through the pain or cause me more pain.

Do I need to have him agree to all the terms before I communicate with him at all? If he starts doing some of these things but says he needs time to decide if he can disclose all the details of the relationship, is that enough to end Plan B? Or do I continue Plan B until he's agreed to all the terms? I understand he doesn't necessarily have to have all the items completed before plan B ends, but he should agree to them, right?

The no contact letter should come to you in his handwriting for you to deliver. It should be in the wording you specify and closely follow the one in SAA. Do not let him write a 'fond farewell' and send it himself.

If he is willing to end the A and to prove it will give you a proper NC letter, then you can see him or talk to him if you wish. Personally I would let him twist in the wind, but a meeting about your standards for the way in which he ends the affair is permissable. However, you must stand firm. Do not let him come back, or agree to continue meeting him, without all the conditions being adhered to exactly.

Yes, I've sent him the sample from the book and I requested to see it tonight before we send it. I specified there could not be any language involving missing each other and it needed to be clear and concise that he was focusing on his marriage and that their relationship was a terrible mistake as well as him requesting no contact. I asked him to write a different one then the sample since he sent the sample one at the beginning of the month and obviously that was a failed recovery.

I told him he needs to agree to the terms or I will go back into a dark Plan B. He asked how he is to communicate with me then, and I said through the IM. I told him his behaviors need to show me that he means what he says and that is the only way. I need him to comply or I will move forward with a divorce. I am standing firm. I will not let him waltz back into my life. He wasn't prepared for me to be so stern with him. I'm sure he thought he could come home, say he was sorry and I'd be all lovey dovey with him. I said your relationship with OW needs to end completely before I can even think about talking about reconciliation, also you need to be on medications. He understands my position since he finally read my PBL. He said he didn't want to read it because he thought it was a goodbye letter. Dumb. I had the IM tell him it was a love letter and that it would explain the situation. It took him 3 weeks to read a letter, after he had decided on his own that the affair wasn't worth it.

I am not letting him move back in until he actually starts to comply. I told him his word means nothing to me without changes in behavior. I will not be disrespected any further. I don't think he realizes how close to divorce I am. He tried to say, "we'll if this is going to be so difficult, then I might as well pack it up and get over you"--playing the victim role. I said, "Fine, if you can not commit to my terms and the EP, then you're making a decision to tell me that we're not worth the effort, so get ready to 'get over me'". I'm not falling for that BS. Don't act like you're the victim, here, buddy. You're lucky you have this chance.

I was looking at all the EPs in the book and i read them off to him yesterday. He knows there's a lot of work ahead of him. We'll see if he's able to follow through. I have no problem cutting off contact again if needed.

Hooray for you, keeping to your boundaries!

He really didn't like having to actually work for getting back with you, seemed like he thought he really could just waltz right back into your life. Not you!

Iron Lady. Show him you mean business. Nice work

Exactly! Way to go, Fancy!

Thanks, everyone. It's amazing when you get to take the power back. I'm not going to beg anyone to stay. I'll keep you posted.

Fancy,

Is one of your conditions that he has a medicine regimen? This should happen BEFORE you leave Plan B. Also you need to be actively involved in his appointments.

Is he seeing a Psychiatrist who is an expert in his illness? Is he involved any any DBT therapy? And if so, are you involved?

These should all be conditions that are met before you're willing to leave Plan B. He has a history of "telling" you what you want to hear and you must see actions.

The first is that NC letter. Has he written it for you to approve?

My Husband is also diagnosed with bipolar and Dr. Harley helped me make these very defined EPs.

Very impressed. A wayward will always live down to the lowest standard they can get away with, so great work keeping the bar high.

Some of our former waywards are incredibly grateful for the tough love they got at this stage.

This is his no contact letter:

"TXXXX,

I love and respect my wife. Please respect my decision to move forward with her and my children. I will not be contacting you and do not contact me. My commitment is to my family and their happiness. I have made many mistakes that have hurt a lot of people, first and foremost, my wife. My relationship with you is over and I will never see you or talk to you again. It was wrong of me to hurt my wife this way and she did not deserve it.

BXXXX "

I mailed it today.

I told him I can't let him move back in until he agrees to all the terms. He says he's willing to commit to all the terms but still needs a few days to to come to grips with telling me everything that happened between them and changing his phone number. He thinks that telling me everything will make things worse. I told him I need to know so we can move forward. There needs to be no secrets between us. We've started reading the SAA book together. He admitted that he is feeling withdrawal as Dr. Harley described. He spent New Years Eve with us at home and New Years Day.

Great job standing up for yourself

Be very leery. No, he doesn't need a few days. He either meets the conditions, or you move back to Plan B. Don't let him drag this out. He needs to be returning to you, hat in hand, willing to do whatever it takes to keep you.

Brainhurts raised some good questions above that I'd really like to see the answers to.

He's agreed to let me be 100 percent involved in his mental health care. He started taking his medications as prescribed. He has his psychiatrist appointment scheduled on 2/4/14. I will be involved. He is not in DBT therapy. He is in individual counseling with someone who is very familiar with his disorder. He is also attending a 12 week anger management class, and has mentioned that it has been helpful in understanding how to handle his anger appropriately.

My participation in his mental health care is definitely one of the conditions for his return home. As well as for him to take medications.

He wrote his NC letter. It's posted above. I had him write his own because we closely followed the sample in the book earlier in December and it was a false recovery. I wanted him to write something different so she would see he meant it.

He says he doesn't think telling me everything about the affair will help. He's worried that it will be more harmful than helpful. I told him he doesn't get to decide that.

He read my Plan B letter on Sunday, after he had decided that he was ready to come home and commit to our marriage. He said he realized he should have read it sooner and that it means we have a chance at reconciliation. He said he's willing to do what he needs to to come home and be with us again. My guess is he is hesitant to tell me everything that has happened between them because when he hadn't read my letter, he thought that my letter was a "goodbye forever" letter and he probably did some things with her that he wouldn't have had he known.

Before he had started his affair, we had a fight one night when he was drinking. I had said to him that if he kept up his behavior and ended up sleeping with someone, I would leave him. He swore up and down during the entire time of the affair (Before Plan B) that he hadn't slept with her. As if by not sleeping with her, it wasn't defined as an affair.

He understands now that all of it was wrong, but he's probably ashamed of what happened. Have many of other Waywards come forth with the details of their affairs willingly or did it take them time? I told him I would only give him a few days or I will go back to no contact.

He asked the IM to ask me if he could come to the baby ultrasound on Monday. Since he finally read my letter and she felt he was sincere about his commitment to our marriage, I let him come. We talked a little during the appointment. We made plans for him to come home for New Years Eve so we could tell our daughter the news that she was having a sister.

He said his last contact with OW was Sunday, that he talked with her about not having contact any further. He said they both know it is wrong and they agree that they can't talk/see each other anymore. I know my exposure played a big role in them not being able to continue their affair.

I read some text messages on his phone from her after the exposure and she was saying things like "Your wife is crazy for going on FB and doing that, she needs help. This is getting out of hand. She thinks she can do this?!?! You can go and just stay with her forever! And be unhappy for the rest of your life. Leave me alone for good. I know you will never trust her or fall in love with her again! But you don't want to hurt her. Maybe that is your karma. To be with her, and it's not really what you want!"

My best friend is worried about my safety. The OW is her sister in law, and she says that the family handles things on a primitive level. They jumped a girl before after she had a baby with one of their husbands. My best friend wants me to get a restraining order against the OW. She hasn't made any direct threats to me, but in her text to my WH, she says "My family wants me to do something about this. She wants drama, we'll give her drama! I'm so mad!!!!" My best friend worries that the OW will come after me physically. WH thinks it won't happen.

He understands that I need to monitor his phone, email, skype and everything else. I told him I would be putting GPS on our phones and there will be no transparency between us when we're working on our marriage.

He's come down quite a bit from his angry manic state. He seems pretty calm overall, although I need him to take the medications to remain stable.

We've got a lot of work ahead of us. Thank you everyone for all your suggestions and support. I am certain that the marriage builders program will be extremely helpful. I'm so glad I found this website. I wouldn't have been able to do be as strong as I am without knowing there have been many others before me who were able to do it with MB.

I'll keep you all posted.

Do they focus on relaxation techniques?

His hesitancy concerns me. Yes, it is difficult for the wayward spouse to discuss the affair, but it's not crippling. He is making excuses.

He's been to anger management for 3 weeks. They've just started talking about relaxation and they have discussed techniques but not practiced them. I have a background in occupational therapy and have experience with relaxation techniques so I have offered to help him. He says he knows the application process is the most important thing.

I told him that he has to tell me. I know that it is difficult, but I agree it's not crippling. He is making excuses. It took him 2 full minutes to answer my question: When was the last time you saw her?

And he couldn't give me a real answer. His answer was "Before Christmas". I said that's not good enough. How hard can it be for him to give me a date and time? I mean, really!?! He said he didn't want to answer the question because it would only lead to more questions. I'm going to keep pushing. If he doesn't tell me, I will go back into Plan B. I told him that. He knows. I'm just giving him a few days because of the mental health piece of it.

Has he signed a medical power of attorney (or anything similar) so that you have full control over him and his medication? Something like this would allow you to admit him if he has a manic episode.


You write out all of the questions you want answered. Then, he answers them. You can schedule a polygraph to ensure that he answered everything honestly. Some threads I have read where the poligrapher asks the WS if they answered all the questions honestly. That part is up to you as to what you ask. You will need your WH to be honest and answer all your questions.


I would be concerned that he had OW write things like that to throw you off. When people are hesitant to be honest and open, then they still have something to hide.


You should take your safety seriously. You have babies to watch out for. It doesn't matter if your WH thinks it won't happen. Please be careful.

Your WH was trying to think up a good lie that you might fall for and that's why it took so long for him to answer you. If he was telling the truth, he wouldn't have had to "think so hard" about it. I would be worried about whether or not he has actually stopped the affair.

Thank you BlairBlueFin.

He has an appt with his case manager on Jan 6th. I plan on attending with him. We have to make a plan for everything and I need to be 100% involved, so I will ask his case manager about the medical power of attorney, etc.

I did tell him I would make him take a polygraph if he can't do this on his own.

I agree about my safety. WH is blinded and in foggyland, so I get he doesn't see the OW for who she really is. I also know he's hiding something if he is hesitant. I haven't talked to him yet today, and I will address the seriousness of this again before the end of tonight.

Thanks!

That's what I think too. So I took it to mean, he had seen her that day or the day before. I'm not believing a word he says until he comes clean and does all the other things Ive asked as well. I have been on his skype, phone, and in his emails, she has not been logged on in skype since Sunday and has been offline for the past few days. He has deleted skypke off of his phone. The phone logs do not indicate that they have been in contact. He thinks I have his phone bugged and thinks I know everything anyways since I kept finding proof of the affair even though he was trying to hide it. He actually thought I had a mirror image of his cell phone somewhere and was hacking in. LOL. They both were freaked out about it.

I think you should require one regardless.

Do I ask him questions and have him do a polygraph? Or do I just do a polygraph with all the questions?

Like compare answers?

In the Operation Investigate section there is a thread called "Polygraph Testing."

Here is the link if it helps:
Polygraph Testing

He needs to change ALL contact information? This should've been one of your conditions before you ended Plan B.

Will he do this today? Phone number, email, Skype, everything.

Yes. He knows he has until today to do all this or I go back into plan B. he had agreed to it but then said he needed to think about it. I have him a deadline of today

Good.

So you're all prepared to go into Plan B? He will leave?

He is not living home yet. We had a meeting to discuss the terms and a plan for moving out of plan B on New Years Eve. I told him he couldn't move back in until he tells me everything and changes contact info. And yes, prepared to go back into plan B. He really doesn't want that.

Good job Fancy.

Has he changed his contact information yet?

Yes. All contact info has been changed.

Excellent! Has your H met the criteria for all the other EP's?

Sadly, no. He says he won't take a polygraph and he won't allow for GPS and spyware etc on the phone. He hasn't told me everything about the affair either. He says he's already done so much to show me he means it especially by taking the meds. I said they are 2 separate issues. He said they are not. I'm going to give him one more day to tell me. I told him I can't move forward without the truth and a commitment for him to allow all other EPs. I told him if he's serious about recovery he'll come clean and do everything willingly. He's always had a problem with people telling him what to do and I told him this time he doesn't get to say no. He doesn't get things his way. If he wants this marriage, he will comply. If not, we can go our separate ways.

Was "one more day" your original agreement?

Didn't you already give him one more day?
I don't think continuing to extend your deadline is going to do anything to motivate him. You need to go back to Plan B. He can contact you through the IM if he ever decides he is serious.

At this point, fancy, I wouldn't entertain any thought of trying to reconcile until after the baby is born. You do not need this drama right now.

I am certain it won't. This has to be a decision he makes on his own.


Exactly. This is the purpose of Plan B: to protect from getting your hopes up - and crushed - possibly over and over again.

It is all on him and there is nothing you can do to make him do it. All you can do is protect yourself from the up and down.

This is a way of him telling you how to feel. It's an extremely common (and devastating) disrespectful tactic around here, I'm afraid.

Don't let him affect you by making you think over whether you should feel he's done enough. Just calmly go dark again until he actually has done enough. You will never be able to make yourself feel like its enough when it's not.

I have to agree with Prisca. You and your baby need to stay healthy. Your H would have already made the decision if he was serious, and he would have decided quickly. I don't think he is serious.

Take care.

My biggest concern is the kids especially the baby. He answered my questions about the affair today. I told him I'm scheduling a polygraph to verify as well. He's not excited about a polygraph.

So now, he's ended the affair, written the no contact letter, we sent it, he changed his contact information, he's given me access to his phone, email, skype and everything else to avoid contact with her. He got tested for STDs. He's agreed to read the SAA book and work the program to repair our marriage and commit to our marriage. We've already started reading it together. He has his counseling sessions scheduled. He's got his psychiatrist appointment scheduled. He has been taking his medications as prescribed. He has agreed for me to be 100% involved in his mental health treatment.

These were all the items I specified in my letter.

We're working out the details of implementing the other Eps such as 24 hour accountability, spending leisure time together, avoiding overnight separation, and technical accountability as described by the book.

He is not yet living at home. Since he has met my conditions as stated by my letter, how should we move forward with having him move back in? I haven/t read far enough into the book. Do we do it gradually? Or should he move back in immediately?

I do think he is sincere this time. I appreciate all your concern, and you all are obviously more experienced with seeing the holes in Waywards. I'm not easily pushed around, and he understands that. We have a lot of work ahead of us.

As for the polygraph, whats typically done is you give him a list of questions that will be asked by the polygraph.
You can only ask three but he may not know that, nor know which questions.

Typically, a lot more truth is often revealed the day before the polygraph

Since you were already on the Radio Show, you can email Dr Harley for follow up advice on this

I like that you are not easily pushed around! You have a good head on your shoulders and you are working your plan very well.

I have a dear female friend that has bipolar. Even on medication, she has big ups and big downs. And pregnancy was really tough on me, and I am concerned about you handling all the extra stress during your pregnancy. If you need to do Plan B until the baby is born, that is fine. You know your limits of what you can tolerate.

It's good that your H has met almost all of your EP's. I think you still need to go to the psychologist on Monday and find out about securing full legal control over his disease and his medications. And, you need to schedule and complete the polygraph. (I hear on the boards about Waywards that confess a lot of extra stuff right before the poly.)

As Jedi said, you can e-mail Dr. Harley for a follow up. Dr. Harley and Joyce are so sweet!

Don't let him move home until he has passed the polygraph.

Okay. I am emailing Dr. Harley and Joyce today. I'll probably ask them for a referral for a certified, reputable polygraph examiner as well. I will not let him move home until he's passed the polygraph. I keep telling him that if he really means what he says that he wants to be committed to the marriage, then he will do all the things I've asked without question. I told him our recovery depends on his ability to fully commit, and if he can't, I have no problem walking away from it. To me, if he doesn't do what I've asked, it tells me he doesn't care about what I think and doesn't respect my position in this marriage to prevent any further waywardness. I want us to have a transparent, successful marriage. If he doesn't comply to all the terms, it tells me he's not interested in doing everything possible to make it work, and I have to walk away.

He said, the book is not the bible. I know it's not, but it's a guide. It's the only guide, I've come across that seems to make sense, and I will do everything the book suggests because of the countless recovered couples who swear by it.

My biggest concern is his mental illness as well. If he doesn't get a handle on managing his MI, there is no way we will be able to implement any of the MB program successfully. He needs to be clear minded and able to reason. I know that bipolar disorder will always be a challenge with ups and downs even with treatment. If he isn't willing to try the treatment and see what he can do to manage it, how can he expect me to stay and be abused, disrespected, and mistreated forever. That is not love. I do not fear for my safety currently, and he's not in a manic state any longer, but he does have residual thoughts about what happened when he was manic. He says he can rationally see that his family and I did what we felt was the best option at the time and we meant to help him by bringing him to the hospital. Although, he sees this as the ultimate betrayal and his reason for why it was easy for him to have an affair. That he detached himself from me and was angry with me and since he didn't feel he could trust me anymore, he needed someone else to rely on and discuss his deepest feelings with. He said she was the only person who wasn't telling him what to do (take meds, talk to a therapist, talk to a psychiatrist, abide by the court order, etc) and she was actually advising the opposite (don't take the meds, you're fine, they don't know what they are talking about). She was/is ignorant to the illness. My fear is that if he doesn't get a handle on the illness and he is frequently unstable, the affairs will only continue because I won't be the person who he wants to go to first, because I'll do what he fears. I would get the professionals involved and he could be hospitalized again.

I hope this program will work for us. The illness adds a whole other layer of complicated issues that make our situation unsteady.

I've contemplated trying not to reconcile until after the baby is born. I don't know what kind of world the baby will be born into with him just starting his medication and just really starting to take his illness seriously. I hope it will be a better place. I am prepared to go back into Plan B for my protection and especially for the baby. I know only I can be the judge of what I will be able to tolerate. He seems to be sincere and I want to give him a chance, but I'm not going to let him yo-yo me around. I know there is potential for him to try to manipulate me and I know I have a limit. I know he's not done enough and he can't manipulate me to feel what he thinks I should. I told him he doesn't get to decide what is important and what isn't. It isn't my fault that he had an affair. These are precautions to ensure nothing like this ever happens again, and it's to hold himself accountable. I will be the judge of when he's done enough.

Sounds like you are doing well! Good thinking on everything!

Let us know how the psych visit goes. Hang in there for now.

In this thread there are some questions that posters have used.
Polygraph Testing

Thanks. I've decided I'm going back into Plan B until he's serious, but I'm starting the divorce process just to protect myself. It's too much drama still, and you guys are right, if he really meant it, he'd come back hat in hand ready to do everything without hesitation. Into a super duper dark Plan B.

I think you are very wise to do that. You have a lot on your plate right now, and you don't need to be dealing with a WH who is not serious. Wait until after the baby is born before breaking Plan B again. He can wait.

Thanks, Prisca. I know. Youre right.

HOO-RAY for YOU!!! Way to go, Fancy Girl!! I feel so relieved that you are going back to Plan B. I was worried about you and the babies. It wasn't an easy choice, but you are a-w-e-s-o-m-e for making that hard choice and protecting yourself and the babies first. Prisca is right - your WH will have to get serious and show you that first.

Hugs.

Thanks BlairBluefin. He just won't do everything willingly and that's not enough for me. Gotta focus on the babies. Thanks for the hugs!

Good job Fancy. Get back into a dark Plan B and protect yourself.

Thanks, BrainHurts. It's been 3 days and it has been good. It feels good to take control back of my life.

Good to hear you are doing well. Any extra-fun self-care things you are planning for this week?

just a little shopping and working. thanks for checking in.

Good. Stay with us. When a poster goes into Plan B it can be really tough.

So, WH is saying he is sorry and wants to do everything possible to be back together, blah blah, he'll do everything listed and more and will do anything to get back with me.

I'm kind of exhausted and I don't know how much more I can handle emotionally. I feel like the space is needed before I even think about trying to even think about reconciling. I know, think about thinking. I'm that far away from it right now. I found out that he went to see OW the day we sent the NC letter to "say his goodbyes in person because he was never going to see her again", and he says he realizes it was the worst mistake ever. The problem was he lied to me about it. He told me was just with a male friend for drinks. He had his male friend lie to me as well, when I called to verify info. And when we discussed the details of the affair, I had asked him when the last time he saw her was and he said "the Saturday before Christmas". Lied to my face, again! We had talked about withdrawal and the importance of being honest in case he did slip up and see her or talk to her, but he chose to lie AND have his friend lie. So I did go back into Plan B and it's been a week.

WH is begging and pleading with IM that he's serious this time and really knows he royally screwed up. He tells her that he loves me and he chose me years ago and he wants our family to be back together. I'm not going to break Plan B until there is solid evidence based on actions that he means what he says. But I'm also wondering if I even want to reconcile anymore because I just am emotionally drained and exhausted. I seriously need a few weeks to myself for sure.

Oh and WH suggested a reward system, that if he starts showing me by doing all the things I've asked, that I should allow him to see me, or take me out as things are completed. Are we in 2nd grade? I told IM, he needs to do it all. Ideally, I'd like him to be stable and on meds for 6 months before I know for sure if we can repair our marriage, but he thinks 6 months is too long a time to figure out if our marriage is over.

I kind of feel like he's only thinking about himself too. He told IM that he doesn't know if he can do all the hard work if at the end of it, my answer is a maybe. I feel like he was testing the water to see if he could get back in with me and gradually let her go so there wasn't a gap in having someone around. He's afraid of being alone. Now, he's uncomfortable where he is based on his choices and I sort of want him to be miserable for a while. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I know we're supposed to be together to work through it and work on our marriage, but there have been so many lies. I'm just not sure anymore.

Should I just let him twist in the wind a while? I've emailed Dr. Harley and Joyce to see what advice they can give someone in my situation.

Thoughts?

I'm really sorry you're having to deal with this push-pull crap, Fancy.

It's extremely telling that he's not willing to make the changes and stick to them for a period of time, WITHOUT getting back into your life.

He doesn't seem to realize that he can't possibly stay on this track just because he wants to be with so much, or is terrified of being alone.

His mental health and commitment to your marriage cannot rest on so slender a reed. That will be a disaster.

He's nowhere near ready to reconcile.

It hasn't even been a week. He's caving because he doesn't like you sticking to your word.

Actions, Fancy. Actions.

When was the last time he saw his psychiatrist?

I'm glad you emailed the Harleys back.

He's hoping you'll go back to the old Fancy and give in. Stay strong and keep yourself protected in Plan B.

I absolutely agree, and I'm actually offended that he thinks that I would believe him now. There is nothing that will tell me he means anything without the change happening consistently before I allow any contact.

The day I went back into Plan B, I did tell him I've met with the divorce lawyers and have the papers ready to submit. I don't think he really thought I had it in me. I am really at the point of being okay if he is no longer in my life. I don't need him. I will not be in a marriage where lying and dishonesty occur. I can not. I will not raise my girls in that environment as well. He knows he risks the chance of never bonding with the baby.

Our marriage will not survive his mental illness if he does not get a handle on that first. And then, after that, the affair is a separate issue.

I know he's not ready. I know I'm not ready to try. WALLS ARE UP!

Thank you, BrainHurts! I need all the support I can get. He's only thinking about himself. He hasn't considered me or our daughters yet.

Do you know what his meds are?

So sorry that your WH is being a jerk. How did you find out that WH was still being wayward and lying to you? I hope your IM is keeping you protected in Plan B, away from all the drama.

You are right that you do not need this extra grief to worry about. I wish I could do something to help you. Keep that Plan B tight. Maybe some extra fun self-care things? Take care of you and your babies.

Yes, He is on lithium. 2 pills in the AM, 3 pills at night. He'll have to do regular blood draws to prove he's taking the correct dosage and also to make sure it doesn't become toxic.

He was resistant to taking the Lithium when he was released from the hospital.

He went to another hospital to get another opinion and those psychiatrists gave him Depakote and Zyprexa instead. He read up on those meds and decided that the Lithium was a better option based on the lengthy side effects the other two had. He started on them (again) Jan 2, and has been reporting to IM that he's taking them every day, although the only way to know is when he gets his blood drawn.

My best friend, Christine, who is the OW's SIL, texted me and asked if WH had been out Friday night. I confirmed that he was, since he told me he was out with his male friend. She said there was a post on FB from OW's best friend's page that looked suspicious about two people being lovey dovey and for them to "get a room". It was OW's birthday on Jan 1 so she was having a party at a bar/nightclub Jan 3. She and I decided it was best that I ask WH if had seen OW on Friday, Jan 3.

When he came by to tuck in DD that night, I confronted him about where he had gone. He wouldn't answer my question. This was only a week after I had broken Plan B to try to see how we could get all the terms met, and he hadn't even moved back in yet. He told me he already told me where he went that night and wasn't going to tell me again. I told him I had called his male friend to verify and the story was a little different. He told me to tell me what male friend said. I asked him again where he went Friday night. He said "I already told you, so I'm not telling you again. You obviously have something you want to say, so why don't you just go ahead and say it?" SO I asked him directly : "Did you go see her on Friday?" This is what I got: BLANK STARE. NO RESPONSE!!!!!

I was done. In that moment, I was done. That was last Sunday. I admit, I had an angry outburst. Then I calmly said, "Get out. I am done with you. I have met with the lawyers already. I have the paperwork ready to file. This was your last chance, and you blew it. Good bye." He sat there and cried and begged me to stay and begged me to give him another chance. I was emotionally strapped. Depleted. Done. In my heart, I wanted to believe that the answer would be no, but I knew in my mind that it wouldn't surprise me if it was a yes. And he couldn't have picked a worse time to screw up. I was fed up. This "affair" started 11/2/2013. I can't imagine what those of you who put up with affairs for YEARS went through. I don't know how you did it. I know I can't.

So I tried to get him to leave for about an hour. He kept begging me to let him stay the night and he would leave in the morning. HEck NO! Luckily, my brother was on the way so when my brother got here, he quickly got his things and left.

Now he's crying to IM saying he knows he made a huge mistake but at this point, he's only sorry he got caught, and he's starting to realize the depth of his choices. He hasn't truly repented or felt remorse for what he has done and what he's put our family through. He's still only thinking about himself and about what he'll lose. He only wants to put in the work if he "gets" something out of it. He's not in it for the right reasons yet. I'll let him stew in his misery. He can feel the pain of the loss. And if he decides to continue his waywardness, so be it. I did my best. He is weak right now and emotionally needy. I need him to figure it out on his own that he needs to do this for me and for the kids, not just for himself.

Does he have a job?

Yes. He was on short term disability for a while while he was in the hospital this past Sept-October and for several weeks after he was discharged from the hospital. He was out of the office for 14 weeks? He just returned to work Dec 19th.

Okay, this makes sense that you heard it from your friend while you were not in Plan B - seeing if your WH would do the EP's.



I agree with you. Your WH is only sorry that he got caught. He's not sorry for the behavior yet.

Dr. Harley and Joyce are so sweet. Let us know when you hear from them.

Your IM needs to protect you from this information. She should only be passing on information about the kids or finances. If he expresses to her his desire to reconcile with you, she should tell him to contact Dr. HARLEY on the radio show and ask him what to do, and she shouldn't tell you a thing about it.

Fancy, I just heard your letter read on the radio show.
Did you tell Dr. Harley that the reason you are in Plan B is not only because you are pregnant, but also because your husband was waffling on following EPs? It sounded like Dr. Harley wasn't aware of this, and assumed your husband was doing everything he could and just slipped up ...

Yes, I explained everything in the letter in detail. Joyce paraphrased my situation.

But from what I gathered, relapses are expected and I'm to put in more EPs to prevent further contact if he can't refrain from contacting her.


But he needs to be honest about contacts or if he's feeling an urge to contact.

And Dr Harley also said he would understand if I decided to divorce him at this point since it's too stressful and since he's betrayed me again.

Joyce and Dr Harley talked about me being the only one to judge whether I decided to try to reconcile or divorce since I'm the only one that knows my whole situation. I'm trying to figure it out. Need some time alone.

Take your time. There is no need to rush to a decision about reconciliation.
Dr. Harley talked about moving, and seemed to think it would be the only way to keep him from contacting her. Is that something he would be willing to do?

I don't think moving is a real option for us right now with me being pregnant and honestly our entire support system is here. With his mental illness being a new diagnosis and us still navigating that aspect, I would not want to move away and handle that all on my own. It was a traumatic experience to deal with the mania.

Well, that's the problem with infidelity.
If you want to recover you often need to move

You choose what is best for you and your babies. Your health is extremely important right now. Moving would be very hard on you during your pregnancy.

Take plenty of time making your choice. If you want to "bounce" stuff off any of us here, I know many of us are anxious to help out.

Take care.