My husband and I have been married for 3.5 years and together a total of 7.5 years. I am 24 and he is 26.

My husband announced to me one month ago today that he had had doubts about the viability of our marriage for up to two years and no longer thought our incompatible differences could be overcome. I was completely blindsided. I definitely felt like we had "typical" marriage issues (disagreements over finances, sex drives, etc.) but none that warranted a separation or divorce. He wrote me along letter outlining all of the ways were would always be incompatible, including his desire to "live to work," my overall pessimistic personality, our differing political/religious beliefs, and the lack of time we have spent with his family. Keep in mind, the only two things I ever had any clue about being a problem were his work needs and my personality.

I have spent the past month pouring over conflicting advice about what to do to try and salvage our relationship. My husband has not made any plans to move out or separate. He does not mention the word divorce. We have also started a marriage coaching program with a pro-marriage coach. However, he tells me things like "I feel secure when I think about a future without you" and "I am frustrated by the coaching process because I feel like I know how it is going to end and it will only cause more pain as a result." Essentially, the writing is on the wall for him and he appears to be only going through the motions out of guilt.

All that being said, however, we still enjoy time together and even went on a weekend trip to visit some family last week. I have made a greater effort to be physically/sexually affectionate and he has responded to that favorably. However, I'm fairly certain he feels guilty over it and thinks he is 'using me' because of his current feelings. When we don't talk about our relationship things seem to go well, but when we do things like the feeling communications exercises our coach gives us, he gets very uncomfortable and withdraws after we are finished.

I have acquired the "His Needs, Her Needs" book as well as "Love Busters" and have started reading them. I definitely can identify where I have "lovebusted" him in the past (I did not give him enough admiration or physical affection) and am working on correcting all my past behaviors. However, I don't know where to proceed with him anymore. There is a lot of conflicting advice about whether or not I should be "pursuing him" and whether or not we should even be having conversations about our relationship right now. Some people say I should be 'getting a life' and not doing anything to engage with him right now, and it just doesn't feel right.

I asked him to fill out the emotional needs questionnaire but I don't know if he will or not. He is very withdrawn emotionally and is all but convinced we will never be in love again and we can never be happy. How can I repair our marriage if he has given up? I'd like to try to get him to commit to doing MB 100% and then if it doesn't "work," reassess what he wants.

I actually submitted this post to MB radio and I've been accepted to be on the show, so I look forward to see what Dr. Harley has to say to me.

From my reading of this forum, I expect most of you will tell me H is probably having an affair. He of course has denied an affair since day 1. I have only had a chance to look at his e-mail, which turned up nothing other than the fact that he is reading the book "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay." Clearly he is conflicted. He basically works off of his phone so he has already had it close to him since our earliest days. I cannot access it outside of him sleeping, which would still be incredibly difficult since a) he sleeps with it next to his head and b) he is a light sleeper. I cannot really afford to pay for a PI right now. If I try to install software, he will find it since he is a programmer on the side. I'm at a lost at what to do with that.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

Why do you think we would think such a thing?

Because that seems to be the script for most of these sudden blindsides. H has told me he doesn't think he can love me like a husband should love a wife, which I suppose you could read as another version of "I love you but I don't love you anymore."

Do I think he is having an affair? No. But a lot of people don't and they are wrong. I am not ruling it out, but I am not running with it either I guess.

The reason we think this is because it is almost ALWAYS due to an affair. So anything we tell you to do will be a waste of time. Some folks are sneakier than others and there are a couple of situations where it took a year or two to uncover, but I can only think of 1 situation where an affair was not the cause. And in that case, I believe it was because the husband didn't snoop.

So if we assumed there was no affair [not on the basis of any facts or evidence] and there actually IS an affair, then we will have wasted our valuable time and your time by giving you the wrong advice. And while we are giving you bad advice, the affair becomes more and more entrenched.

In your case, you don't think he is having an affair because you asked him, not because you actually investigated. Well, that is not a way to find out because every cheater denies it.

Just because I don't "think" he is having an affair doesn't mean it isn't true. I'm not naive. I would like to investigate more, but I feel like it's going to be really hard to do that for the reasons I mentioned in that last paragraph. Any workarounds for those challenges are appreciated.

See, all of the issues you cite can be easily overcome. Compatibility, for example is created. It is not an accident. Romantic love is CREATED through specific steps. All of the issues he cites are easily resolved. So why does he still want a divorce?

IF he is actually looking for solutions, he should be THRILLED to read this article which solves every one of his issues: How to Create Your Own Plan to Resolve Conflicts and Restore Love to Your Marriage

However, if he doesn't embrace this, it means he is not actually looking for solutions. And if he is not, that should be a huge red flag about his motivations.

How about going out tomorrow and purchasing two VARs (voice activated recorder)? They are relatively inexpensive, about $40 each at Best Buy. You could hide one in his vehicle, and one around your home (choose a place where he goes to use his phone in private).

It is doubtful he would find the spyware on his phone. I would check into teen safe and flexispy. Another thing you can do is put a voice activated recorder under his car seat. You can velcro it under the seat.

I totally agree with you. All of the issues he presented to me are not deal breakers or reasons to divorce. When I've tried to share with him that "love is a verb" and that we can recapture what was lost, he has expressed feelings like "you cannot force someone to be in love" and "you are suggesting I can pick anyone off the street and love them." He seems totally opposed to the idea that love that was lost can be regained. Our marriage coach has carefully made similar statements that all of our issues can be overcome if we put in action a plan to address them. Last night, H acknowledged that "there may have been a time when we could have fixed things." I don't know if he is realizing that things didn't have to go doomsday the moment he gave up, or if he is in a fog from a physical or emotional affair.

I should also mention I've looked at all his phone records but since he works from his phone he takes calls all day long from work people and they constantly change so I have no clue how to decipher the calls.

What is the marriage coach's plan to save your marriage and resolve his complaints?

I suspect he agreed to go to "counseling" so he could say he "tried" when he dumps you for his OW. Because he is obviously not interested in solutions.

Marriage coach believes we need to rebuild emotional intimacy and complete honesty before the conflicts begin to be addressed. This was our first week doing actual "work" since before that he was trying to get information from us individually and then was on vacation. This week, we are supposed to spend time every night discussing our days/feelings/thoughts for a set period of time using the speaker/listener method and repeating back what we hear from each other. We aren't supposed to try to talk about the issues in depth, only share.

He told me in his letter he would do the coaching for me because he feels he owes me a "full faith" effort since he was not honest about his feelings for so long. I agree that it really seems like he is phoning it in.

My husband does computer programming for a living, and he never found the spyware I installed .... Get a good one and you'll be fine.

Any advice for how to get my hands on his phone based on how closely he sleeps next to it? No joke he wakes up multiple times a night just to check the news. I can see now me trying to get the phone and he either a) waking up immediately or b) waking up within minutes because he wants to check it. He wakes up without fail almost every time I get out of bed for anything, let alone go to his side of the bed.

I should also mention I have access to all of our accounts and am the main account holder for all our credit cards so I can see everything that happens. I also am the sole possessor of the password to his credit monitoring service so I can see if he were to open a new account without my knowledge. So far there are no suspicious transactions or withdrawals.

Pro-marriage isn't saying much.

Lots of people, counselors, and coaches are pro-marriage but still recommend actions that lead to the end of marriages.

When Dr. Harley started counseling, nobody knew how to save marriages.

Follow the steps people are giving you here on this site. Find out all there is to know about your husband.

Don't look for a mere "pro-marriage" counselor

Our marriage coach has not said or done anything that conflicts with any of those principles. He believes romantic love can be sustained for a lifetime, that couples should not accept fighting as normal, and that you shouldn't just "accept" that sometimes marriage is bad. He can still go off the rails I'm sure, and I'm willing to drop him if he does.

His Needs, Her Needs is on our coach's shelf so I know he is familiar with it at least.

Just a thought....I bet he doesn't shower with it.

Think of places where he CAN'T take his phone and you'll find a good opportunity to borrow it for a few minutes.

He takes his phone into the bathroom when he showers and wraps it up in his clothes so it doesn't get foggy. He's done this as along as I have known him.

He also only showers for a few minutes.

I tried to set up teensafe but it looks like Apple now alerts people when the account is accessed, so there goes that plan.

Can you see the bill?

Could you accidentally spill coffe on the phone and offer to pick-up the new one?

Birdy, get a VAR (voice activated recorder). Or two.

If you have the funds, You can also buy a GPS and hide it on his car.

Yes, apple does send an email when using teensafe's GPS. GREAT option though for later.

Does he plug his phone into a computer for backup? If so, and if you can access that computer, there is decipher textmessage. That showed me texts, even deleted, going back years! You could buy the program, install, and then delete after you get the info.

I can see the bill. I've looked at it numerous times. However, most of texts are via SMS Apple messaging, so the numbers don't show up. Also, he talks/texts all day long with people from his work. I do not know all of their numbers and they work in multiple states (he hasn't even met most of them) so I have no clue how to decipher who he is calling. I tried to use reverse phone number look-ups and they just showed the cities, none of which were out of the ordinary. He doesn't call people late at night or at random times - that is about all I could gather from the bill.

Destroying the phone would be an absolute no and way out of character for me (he would be super suspicious). Spending $600+ for a new one is also not very easy.

He does plug his phone in but very rarely. I don't know the last time he backed it up.

Looks like my only option is basically a VAR. I'll try to get one. Am I supposed to just buy Velcro separately and stick it under his seat? Detailed instructions are helpful here. I read the thread in investigating but it seemed scattered.

I bet that's not the news he's checking at night.

He works in a communications/media field and has checked his phone for the news as long as he has had this job. The articles he provides quotes for typically post in the early AM. Sure he may be talking to someone else at night, but I know for a sure fact that it's not all he is doing.

Until I found out about a possible EA/PA... what should I be doing with H in the meantime?

IF, IF, IF there is no EA/PA... what does that mean my H is doing? Is he young and therefore experiencing a "grass is greener" syndrome because he didn't have a chance to live large in his 20s? He told me during one conversation that he doesn't have a grass is greener problem but feels like our grass is brown. I said how in the world could you say our grass is brown if you didn't know what other grass looked like? Also, why can't we water our grass?

Edit: My parents just said they would cover the cost of a PI... so there is that. Can a PI uncover an emotional affair too if H isn't actually meeting the person in person? That would remove me needing to get the VAR for now.

You should be as pleasant as possible. Don't let on that you are suspicious.


What it means he is doing is having an affair. It is much like being high on crack or heroin. What we will do is help you kill the affair so you will have a chance. We will help you ruin the crack high.


Yeah!! Bravo to your parents! I would also stick a VAR in his car to see if you can find anything.

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The grass is always greener elsewhere when you never water the grass where you are.

Exactly! Me-thinks you are one smart Birdy.

Great for your parents to offer to help like this! I hope that you will take advantage of their offer.

I also think that you should at minimal purchase a VAR and hide it in his car.

What you should do right now is not yet tip your hand about the forums here. Just in case. Others (myself included) have been anxious to recover our marriage, and then our husbands secretly spied on our posting here so that they could (better) run an affair underground and hide it.

Also what you should do right now is read up on Plan A so that you can eliminate any love busters that you may be inflicting on your husband. So basically, meanwhile, be as pleasant as possible.

oh! I keep forgetting to mention that free phone tracer is $19.95 per month. I have kept it for the past two years because unless it is a burner phone, it shows the names and addresses of even cell phone numbers.

I just found the affair. I logged onto the iPad and was able to access his facebook and e-mail. He sent the letter he sent to another woman who works in his field. Please tell me what to do.

SO SORRY Birdy. We are here with you. What did you find in the letter?

DO NOT confront him until others have chimed in and we have helped you to develop a PLAN.

What did you find?

He sent the letter he wrote me to this other woman with the words "tell me what you think honestly. you can reply via text." She has almost messaged him on FB but it looks like he deletes most of their messages. I have taken photos.

Do you have the woman's name? Company that she works for? If so, great...STAY CALM and go immediately to Facebook and look up her name and location. Have a look to see if she has listed the company that she works for, so that you can verify that it is the same person.

If so, then immediately go and copy all of her friends list and save it to a document so that you can later use that for exposure.

First, remain calm.
Did you save the evidence?

wait...he sent a letter that he wrote to you? Asking for her opinion? What did the letter that he wrote to you say?

But now I just found an e-mail from the beginning of May where he was trying to set up this same woman with a friend?? Now I am super confused.

There is a link in MelodyLane's signature entitled "read this if your spouse is having an affair." Go read that and follow the steps.

that's okay. What did the letter (to you) that he was sharing/asking her opinion say?

The only evidence I have is he sent the letter he originally gave to me (which I reference in my original message) to this woman saying what I just posted. And she sent him one Facebook message that I can see saying "this is so me" talking about "your bae being emotional."

Exposure 101

Did you save evidence of the affair? If not, go get it and send it to a safe place. Go do that NOW and then come back for next steps.

You need to get evidence that will convince a jury.
Do you have the woman's name?
Her phone number?

Definitely take your parents up on that PI. And definitely get a VAR asap.

I took pics of everything and sent it to my mom. I have hid the ipad in my work lunch bag and am taking it work tomorrow.

sorry Birdy, I just went back through your original post and I am still not seeing the letter...but basically are you saying that he referenced the bit about how there are too many things that you are not compatible about?

At the very least, if they are sharing such intimate details, this is an EA. Keep snooping.

I have her name. I don't have her phone number.

BlindSighted2013 - Yes he gave me a letter almost a month ago outlining all the reasons we cannot be together because we are are so incompatible.

look on the messages icon on the iPad, and click the message to get the time stamp. Then go onto your cell phone carrier's website and you will be able to see the phone number (at least I can with verizon).

The messages are via e-mail and Facebook... so no phone number as far as I can tell.

I am sure I can find this girl's number though since I know where she works.

try whitepages.com. Others will be along to mention other options. But yep, her name and company may just take you right to linkedin.

So I feel like I need more? My parents are still willing to pay for a PI. However, they also seem to think this email does not equal an affair. I say if he is talking to another woman about our marriage like this it is SOME type of affair. Thoughts?

Yes, keep snooping. Divulging personal info is an EA, but keep snooping. Buy a VAR tomorrow and do your best to get some sleep tonight.

Since you saw the Facebook messages, you have her FB name. Did you go and copy her entire friends list? That is very important.

You need evidence of an affair. Your parents are right. I don't think you have scratched the surface yet.

Birdy,

Get as much info as you can. Needs to be enough to convince a jury that an affair is happening.

Continue to snoop to get evidence of an affair. Is this OW married?

OW is not married.

I was able to get his phone while he was showering and took as many pictures as I could of their extremely long, flirty texting thread. He is texting her 24/7, wishing her goodnight and "sweet dreams." Calling her beautiful. Treating her JUST LIKE he used to treat me. If this isn't an emotional affair I don't know what is.

He is telling her everything about counseling sessions and his "true feelings." He is telling her he "values marriage" but what we have isn't a marriage. He told her I have only brought up cheating once. He genuinely thinks he isn't cheating with this girl, but that they are just talking.

Is this enough evidence? I really think it is.

I suggest you get the PI or use GPS to find where he is during the day. He may be having a PA during lunch hours.

Do you have your list of exposure targets and exposure letter ready? Just use the template from the book.

When you do expose, You need to do it quickly. Have you read 13th Exposure 101 thread?

Do I really need to go to those lengths when I have this? They clearly have a budding, flirty relationship. She seems to have recently broken up with another boyfriend and he is acting like a flirty male friend supporting her. I will never rule out anything but I don't think it is PA YET. It will rapidly develop into PA if it's left alone without question. They aren't discussing meeting up, having met up, or anything of that nature.

I won't rule it out, but I just don't want to delay this if I don't have to either.

He is twitterpated without question.

The best part is when he was detailing how I had only brought up cheating once she said something like "Obviously you are not but maybe she is saying you don't value marriage because she thinks you are?"

They are both in fantasy lalaland oblivious to their own emotional intimacy.

I wouldn't delay more than a day or two.

I'm still going to be on the Harley's radio show today so I'm going to run all of this by them and see what they think I should do. I'm still very lost about whether or not I should tell H first that I know and then see how he reacts before I expose. I will NOT tell him I have any plans to expose, but I'm not sure I should go nuclear with this before I tell him he's be outed?

Also, there is basically no way for me to tell him I know without it coming out I looked at his e-mail/Facebook/phone etc. How should I prepare for that fall out?

Good job Birdy. Where is this woman located? Do you know how they met?

Yes, they are in lalaland.

Have you gotten her FB friends list copied?
Have you read all about Plan A?

Do not tip your hand and tell your husband that he has been caught. This has been going on since before May, and I suspect that it is already entrenched. Affairs are very addictive, and you're fighting a big monster here. You want to use every avenue available to shock them out of fantasyland and kill this affair DEAD.

It won't matter what he thinks about your looking at his email, Facebook, phone, because after exposure and IF you commit to recovering your marriage with him, then he will have to give you all of his passwords and commit to total transparency.

She lives about an hour and half from us. They met through work. They are not coworkers but they work in the same profession and have probably met sporadically at events.

I am going to check with the Harley's to see if they recommend we going after all her FB friends yet. I have a list of her mutual friends. I cannot see her entire list of friends because she has that blocked.

I have read about Plan A as much as I can but I worry I don't have the pieces all lined up enough yet. Is this a timeline that seems to follow what Plan A is about?

1. Expose affair to my parents (already done), his parents and siblings, and any others the Harley's recommend to me today.
2. Tell H that the EA must stop, NC with the OW ever again, and that I am willing to meet the emotional needs he has been getting from her over the last several months. I am willing to follow all the steps necessary to make our marriage the passionate, fulfilled one he needs.
3. I should follow Plan A for three weeks. At that time if H has not started turning his ship I have to go Plan B.

Copy all the friends you can. Did you make a dummy FB account to try to see her friends?

Also go looking for her parents and siblings. Do you have her address?

Yes, you need to get her total friends list. Also, you can click on her mutual friends FB pages, and you may get lucky and find photos of her that people have "liked". Copy down the names of anyone who has liked her posts.

Here is an article by Dr. H describing what to do after an affair: Click Here

You may not choose to go after all of her FB friends, but you want to have that option. Plus, you may be able to more easily find her relatives through her FB friends list.

I have copied all the friends I can. However, I have to be aware of the fact that most of her friends and his friends come from their profession and exposing to them means essentially exposing to my H's boss, which WILL happen if I expose to these people. I know Dr. Harley says that exposing to an employer is an exception to the "expose to everyone rule" at first and I need to tread carefully there. I'm going to ask Dr. Harley what he thinks.

I have managed to find her family though and have copied them down.

I do not have her address. That is not on FB.

That would not be a strategic move to tell him first and expose based on his reaction. I will tell you his reaction right now: he will deny everything and dismiss it as a friendship. He will then get ahold of her and tell her to spin it as a "friendship."

All you will be doing is pre-empting them so they have time to get their story straight.

You don't expose based on the "story" you get from the wayward, but on the basis of the FACTS about the affair.


What fall out? You tell him you have been looking at everything but won't tell him your resources. You have a RIGHT to know everything he does.

I guess you don't need our help then. Do you understand that we KNOW what Dr. Harley advises? It sounds to me like you are shopping for advice you like.

Do you want his quotes?

From Dr Harley's book, Surviving an Affair - pg 71,

"While I unhesitatingly recommend exposing the affair to friends, family, clergy, children and the lover's spouse, I'm not so quick to suggest exposing it to an employer. That's because such exposure could have unintended legal and economic consequences. For example, the affair might constitute grounds for a sexual harassment claim by the unfaithful spouse's lover. Or it might trigger the outright firing of the spouse, making it far more difficult for them to find another job. So in those cases I usually advise the betrayed spouse to warn the unfaithful spouse he or she will expose the affair to the employer in a month if the unfaithful spouse is still working there, giving him or her time to make a graceful exit from the job to another. Even if a new job cannot be found in a month, I recommend waiting no longer to inform the employer, unless the unfaithful spouse has already resigned."

I'm not shopping for advice and I'm sorry if I'm coming across that way. I've taken pictures/copied as many of her friends as I can. I have copied her family members. However, I don't think I'm crazy to say that Dr. Harley suggests treading with caution on the employer front? Maybe I'm just reading what he says wrong.

In any event, you can expose to the OW's non work family and friends through Facebook.

You need to expose to everyone. If people at work feel it is inappropriate, they have the right to go to HR.

They probably already know. Affairs start with coffee breaks then lunches then time outside the office. The office people have likely seen them together.

First off, we didn't tell you to expose to the employer. And secondly, we know what Dr. Harley's advice is about exposure to an employer. Do you?

Our advice to you was to expose to the OW's family and friends via Facebook. We didn't tell you to expose to his employer or coworkers.

There seems to be a good contingent of non work friends that she has that I can contact and she has all of her family listed on Facebook and I have copied them all down. I have copied their mutual friends down. She has a bazillion Facebook friends so I copied as many as I could.

I am taking all of what you are saying incredibly seriously. I know you are way more experienced in this than me, which is why I decided to just bite the bullet and get to the bottom of this once and for all. If I am acting like a know it all or an advice shopper in any way, please know that it is not my intention. I just want to do this right. H's job is very important to him AND me financially for that matter. If we are going to make it to the other side of this, I have to think long and hard about what it would mean to destroy his job and his chances of ever getting a job again in this profession.

I want to make clear they do not work in the same office they work in the same profession. I'm sorry if I have confused anybody in this regard.

Would their paths EVER cross in any capacity?

I could not rule that out at this very moment, no.

Unless there is absolute no contact for life, then your marriage will never recover. Every contact, even seeing her car or running into her at a trade show will trigger his feelings. Every contact puts him back to Day 1 of withdrawal and will drive you insane with fear and worry.

Your greatest risk is not him losing his job, but getting divorced. If you want to protect the job at the expense of the marriage, then you need to ask yourself what you would get in a divorce settlement because that is where you are headed.

His job is not the most important thing. I promise you this: anything that comes before your marriage will come between you. And that statement holds very true about his job.

Make your choice, the job or your marriage.

Thank you. It's tough to hear, but mainly because I feel sad for H. I don't want him to lose his job, but he chose this. In the grand scheme of things I don't care if he has the job if we can have a marriage.

There is a lot of turnover in the job she works in though. Four people have had it before her, of that I am certain. If she leaves that job, I guess there is some chance someday they might see each other based on the fact we live in the same state. I don't know.

Did they meet the a professional interaction of any kind? I hear you say they aren't co-workers per se, but most companies have policies prohibiting fraternization with vendors, clients, etc. Their workplaces may be an ally in killing the affair because it could open the company to harassment accusations. Or not. But you don't know these things now.

Again, do you have the exposure letter ready?

FACEBOOK or email exposure letter to family and friends of YOUR WS - this was written by board member, Underdog:

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxxx and I. As some of you know, xxxxx has recently asked me for a separation, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason is because she has been carrying on an affair with a old boyfriend named xxxxx xxxxx who resides in xxxxxx. He is also married and has young children . The purpose of the separation is so that she can carry on her affair without my interference.

She refuses to end the affair. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my babe, please do what you can to get her to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxxx to persuade her to end her affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged if she would only end the affair. Please support her in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Warmest regards,

Yes, in the end the employer may be an ally. She could very well be fired because her boss is a super Christian, very hot headed person who has fired people for way less bad behavior. I don't know of any policies that exist in their field about fraternization as of now but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I would have to investigate.

I'm working on the exposure letter now. However, lots of his family and friends are never on e-mail or Facebook. Does that mean I need to call them?

Or mail the letter.

Birdy, get her address. Search google or linked in, whitepages.com, and whatever else you can think of, but get her address. THEN go and search the county records in that area so that you can find out for sure that she is not married.

I have access to her Facebook page (via looking through my husband's page last night) which is pretty clear about her not being married? But I'll do what you say all the same.

Also their texts refer to her just breaking up with someone a few weeks ago.

That's okay, you need her address in any case.

Well I have the two exposure letters lined up and ready to go. I'm speaking with the Harley's in the next hour. Once that is over with, and unless for whatever reason they suggest I do otherwise, I'm going to expose.

Birdy,

Do you have any more evidence other than this letter of yours he forwarded to her?

To us, yes, it's obvious that it's an EA at this point. That's not the sort of information you share with an opposite sex friend.

But you need to be loaded for bear here, so to speak.

Understand that your WH will probably push back as hard as he can to make you look like someone who is falsely accusing him of an affair because he is trying to leave you, and unfortunately there will be people naive enough to believe that sort of a story. As you mentioned, here we see that enough to know that there is almost always an affair involved in sudden separations, but most people have zero experience with infidelity. He'll go to his family and friends and tell them your whole marriage was a sham, he never really loved you, etc etc, and that narrative might seem plausible to them in the absence of solid evidence to the contrary.

If you have to wait a bit to get high quality evidence, do it. The better your evidence, the more effective your exposure will be. If you expose without enough of it, it will backfire on you.

I have screenshots of as many text messages as I could possibly get this morning. They detail all the things I have mentioned.

Based on these message (as recently as today) they are not a) saying I love you b) aware that their behavior is an emotional affair or c) making active plans to meet in secret. I will never say none of those things haven't happened or won't happen, but that is where it stands based on their very long, very detailed texting train.

If that is still not enough, what should I do?

I have a text where they admit to sneaking around to talk. I have another text where H says she is beautiful. I have another text where they joke about loving each other. I have another text where she calls him handsome. I have multiple texts were he lays out intimate details of our marriage and counseling. I have texts of him wishing her goodnight, asking him to call her while he's driving. It's all flirtatious, beginning of a relationship, butterfly mumbo jumbo. They are clearly dancing around each other. If I need more, I'm not sure where to get it at this point. It seems like I wait longer and the relationship just progresses further, possibly to physical.

Note I am NOT arguing or disagreeing or trying to be the expert. Just talking out loud.

No this is good, this is helpful.

I think that's pretty damning myself but wait for MelodyLane to chime in on it. She's the expert here on exposure.

You have plenty of evidence for exposure. In your exposure letters, I would include photos of a couple of the worst texts.

Please post your plans and your exposure letters before you send them.

Letter to our friends and family:

Dear friends and family,

I am writing you this message because you are an important person in the lives of xxx and me. xxx recently blindsided me one month ago by saying he doesn�t know if wants to be married to me anymore, which has shattered my heart. To my shock, I am saddened to have discovered that the reason for this bombshell is because he has been carrying on an emotional affair with a woman he met through his job named xxx, who resides in xxx. xxx has acted the way he has because I am an interference to his budding relationship with her.

He is in denial about his actions and neither of them believes their behavior has been inappropriate. I want our marriage to recover from this affair. If you have any influence on my husband, who I love more than anything in this world, please do what you can to get him to stop this dangerous affair. I want to stay married, but the affair must end.

As our friends and family, I am asking that you use your influence with xxx to persuade him to end his affair and try to work on our marriage. Our marriage can be salvaged, but only if he ends this. Please support him in doing the right thing. Please support our marriage.

I would so appreciate your support and prayers.

Letter to her people:

Dear friend of xxx,

It grieves me to write this letter but I believe all of xx�s friends and family should be aware that xx is having an emotional affair, possibly more, with my husband, xx. xx and I have been married for 3.5 years and together for 7.5. I love him with all of my heart, and the discovery of this affair has shattered my heart. They have been having this affair since at least May according to evidence from their e-mails and text messages. I have included some of their latest texts here as evidence. This is inappropriate behavior between a married man and a woman other than his wife.

I would ask that you use your influence with xx to persuade her to leave my husband alone and end this inappropriate relationship. I believe that her friends should know this, so you can protect your own relationships. This affair has the capacity to wreck our marriage, and I would be indebted to you if you can help persuade xx to stay away from my husband as I attempt to save our marriage.

Thank you.

Ok, I would take out the words I struck out above. You don't need to talk about his denial. Let him deny the affair and make a fool of himself. I would also attach copies of the worst texts.

Birdy, can you please post the list of people to whom you are exposing? [not the name but the relationship] I heard the tail end of your call today and did Dr Harley tell you to expose to his boss?

He said to expose the boss and then Mrs. Harley said to start out with the first groups and then expose the boss. Dr. Harley also said to tell OW I know what is going on.

I will correct my letters now.

Exposing to:

My parents (already done)
His parents
His siblings
My siblings
OW's parents
OW's siblings
OW'S friends
Mutual friends
H's friends
Boss... after these people.

So this is your plan for TODAY, right?

Yes this is my plan for today. But Dr. Harley said I also need to write a Plan A letter for H to give to him, so I am also working on that now as well. Dr. Harley said they needed to go together (exposing + the letter).

He told you to expose FIRST though. That needs to happen first.

He said it didn't really matter which one happened first but I'm going ahead and exposing first, yes. I'm just making sure I have the letter ready to give to him right after I'm finished.

Handing him the letter FIRST doesn't make any sense because it will just tip him off that you know about the affair. Then you lose the element of surprise and you will be spending all your time debating and arguing with him about the affair. That just needlessly delays exposure and makes the situation 10x more difficult.

You can take your time to write the letter and give it to him AFTER you have exposed.

Yes that is what I'm going to do. I will expose and then give him the letter. Exposure is starting now, with his parents.

ok, I just heard what he said about exposing before or after so you are right. But, you should expose FIRST and then give him the letter later for the reasons I outlined above.

Good girl!! And be sure and ask them to speak to him..

But I'm assuming they need to wait and speak with him until I am done exposing?

No. They can call now. And if he calls to chew you out, don't take his calls until you are finished. That is why this all needs to be wrapped up quickly.

First convo with H's mentor friend went awful. He basically told me I will lose all moral high ground by telling everyone. He shook me up a lot but I'm trying to press forward.

You are doing just great!! Go forward. Just expect that you will get a few reactions like that. You will also get a lot of support. It is not immoral to tell people the truth;; it is immoral to have an affair. You are doing nothing wrong.

H has clearly found out. Blowing up my phone and a text with "wow. really."

GREAT!!!

The more reaction and anger, the more you struck a chord.

DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM until you are done and have the Plan A/B Letter ready.

LTL

Hi Birdy-I usually lurk here more than post, but just wanted to tell you that you are doing a GREAT job. Hang in there. We all know how painful this type of discovery is and you're doing such a great job of keeping your head together and following the program. When you get less than supportive reactions during the exposure, just remember that you're following advice personally given to you by Dr. H. He's an expert on infidelity...these other people aren't. So many of us discovered MB AFTER D-Day and after a number of mistakes were already made. You're handling this correctly right from the beginning. Take care.

Also, don't tell people you are exposing the affair. Just tell them you are calling them to ask for support and ask if they will use their influcece to persuade your WH to end his affair.

Birdy18: "Hi Joe, I am calling to ask for your support of my marriage. I was devastated to discover that WH is having an affair with XXXX XXXX. I want to save my marriage and am asking for your help. You are an important person in WH's life and I am asking that you use your influence to persuade him to end his affair."

Ask yourself, is it the moral high ground to enable and encourage infidelity and the breakup of a marriage and family?

LTL

DO NOT GET DISTRACTED. FINISH YOUR EXPOSURES.

If you think he will come home and disrupt your exposures, then leave and finish them up elsewhere.

The public library is a great option if still doing e-mails and you could step out to your car for privacy for phone contacts.

LTL

Okay I have exposed him to my parents, our siblings, our mutual friends, his mentor friend, her parents, her siblings, and her closest friends.

I have also messaged her per Dr. H's advice.

I am shaking right now.

You are doing great, Birdy!! Keep it up. Now contact his boss.

What about his parents? Who else is left on your list?

Don't stop until you are done. Get this wrapped up and out of the way so you can move onto next steps.

You are doing great! Don't stop until you are done.

Yes I contacted his parents.

I am sending H the letter before I tell his boss. The Harley's said I could hold off on telling the boss. I am going to go with that advice.

He is flipping out about me telling people. He is telling me I am blackmailing him.

I have ruined his life and everything he has and none of what I told people is true.

Wait a minute, I am listening right now and that is not what he said at all. He told you to tell his boss. You have no valid reason to delay this key exposure.

You need to get these exposures done TODAY so you can move onto next steps.

That is nice. Now finish your exposures and stop reading his texts.

Dr. Bill Harley: "Getting the boss to know about this will be a GIANT LEVERAGE. You need to tell the boss."

What I took away from the conversation with both of them was that I could delay in telling his boss and that is what I wrote down. I 100% take ownership of my actions in this matter and understand that you disagree.

You are making excuses because you are scared. I am listening right now and that is NOT what he said.

This is a critical exposure you can't afford to ignore.

Why would you choose to drag this out needlessly? Do you want to deal with a nuclear explosion next week too? WHY? There is no need to drag this out. Get it done NOW so this part is over and so you can move onto next steps.

That's fine, we will keep this on the front burner until it is resolved. You can't afford to cut corners. This is a critical exposure that can't be ignored. After all, this is a workplace related affair.

Lose moral high ground how?? By telling the truth? He is probably wayward.

I must be completely confused then because I wrote down and re-listened and they said at one point that I could do it in stages with the boss.

Have you eaten? Take care of yourself.

It is easier to just get it done.

Crazy things wayward sat. He is just reading from the script.
http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2315999

He called my mother and tried to tell her it wasn't an emotional affair and that I was going crazy.

My mother told him she is praying for us and wants us to be together desperately but that he was having an emotional affair whether he thinks so or not.

44:00

Dr. Harley: I would tell his boss.

Dr H: His boss will not want him to be having an affair

47:14 Dr Harley: I don't want to hurt him. I don't want to do anything to ruin his life. But i don't want him to do this again

Birdy; That is my worst fear about telling his boss.

Dr H: No, getting the boss to know about this will be a GIANT LEVERAGE. GIANT LEVERAGE

That stage has ARRIVED! You have exposed to stage 1 people. Stage 2 has arrived.

Get er done!

You know, I'd bet dollars to donuts that this is a physical affair. Affairs are like icebergs; the visible part is only a small piece of what is usually there.

H just told me that he was "happy to share" what OW has meant to him over the last few months as a friend, and that she has supported our working on our marriage 100%.

He also wanted to know when I violated his privacy.

He is canceling all our plans together for the next few weeks.

Birdy, did you send the exposure letter to his boss? This needs to be wrapped up.

And we expect him to be angry about exposure. He is irrational. If you are just spreading the good news, why would be punish you?

I thought I had his boss' phone number or something but I do not. An e-mail or Facebook is out of the question since my husband is the one that controls both of those for his boss and would see it first.

Why would your husband see his bosses emails?

Does his boss not get his own emails?

At minute 45 in the radio program, Dr. Harley says, in no uncertain terms, that you are to expose to his boss now.

No the only e-mail I have for his boss is the account my husband manages for him.

I would stay on this until you find a way to reach him directly.

Do you see any emails from the boss on the iPad?

And how are your exposures coming?? Is your H still texting you with threats? How are you doing?

Are his Contacts on the iPad?

Can't you call the company they work for and just ask for his boss by name?

Also, is the boss on LinkedIn? Several of my contacts have their phone numbers listed there.

You're doing really great...just finish off this one piece and then you can check exposure off of your list. It will feel good when this part isn't hanging over your head anymore.

Yes, ^^ exactly what JenDee said.

We are all rooting for you Birdy.

You are doing GREAT and are very brave. What did you say to the OW? Did you firmly tell her that she is to have NO further contact with your husband?

You could just ring the company and ask to speak to the boss.His boss is a very valuable exposure target as workplace affairs are frowned upon because of the risk to the company not only whilst the A is thriving but when the A falls apart. It exposes the company to all sorts of potential risks.

Exposure bursts the A fantasy bubble, reality and any disruption to the A is good.


You need to ignore what WH says, they all say similar things - you have ruined my life, you have breached my privacy, you are immature, foolish ....... This is all said to make you stop because you are hitting the mark.

Great job, Birdy. You're doing this right.

Don't be fooled by your husband's complaints about privacy. Privacy is not something that exists between spouses. I'm sure he's had no problem watching you dress and undress over the years so he's not much of an advocate for your privacy either.

No, what he wants is SECRECY and that is a very different thing. Don't let him threaten you on this. He has no legal right to privacy from you since he is your husband. His excuses are right off the script for way wards.

I just listened to your show and read through your thread and have some comments and support to offer. Will BRB...

I just want to point out that Dr Harley emphasized to you that people on the FORUM know all about exposure and ending an affair, since they have been through it themselves and have read about others' experiences here.

I would urge you to follow MelodyLane's advice on these little nuances in terms of timing, she KNOWS exactly what she is talking about.

I sent my little sister here in 2009 with a WH in the throes of a workplace affair and ML almost single-handedly walked her through the exposure and KILLED the affair. They are recovered today.

Here are some problems with trickle exposure:

(a) all you are going to do is enrage the WS ALL OVER AGAIN when you do your next "wave" exposure - this is more stressful for you in the long run and less effective on killing the affair

and

(b) give them time to "spin" the affair to others before you can get to them.

My sister's WH did the same after she exposed....ranted, raged, and even packed a bag and left for a short period and told her he was DONE with the M. The affair was killed dead and they recovered their M.

My point? Ignore a fogged out wayward. Focus on getting the exposure done.

Keep this in mind:

Your WH is going to do whatever he can to get you to STOP exposure and back off because it is so damaging to the fantasy of the affair.

This is a normal wayward tactic. We have seen it all - all the way from anger and threats (I can never trust you again and this M is over!) and negotiation (I will work on the marriage, just stop exposing!).

You basically need to ignore what comes out of his mouth until the affair is over.

Hello all. Sorry to leave you hanging, but as you can imagine it's been a very insane past couple of days.

I am also typing on my phone so I cannot write a super long message with everything that has transpired.

First, I finished all the exposures except for my H's boss. I will not expose him to his boss. I came to this decision after serious reflection, prayer, and taking into consideration every piece of advice I have been given. My gut never told me exposing H was a bad choice. I was nervous and scared, but I knew I had to do it. My gut and intuition tell me, however, that to expose to my H's boss was not a wise decision. I understand some of you may think my marriage is definitely doomed now and that I am wrong, and you may not want to offer any more advice to me as a result. I understand why you would do that.

My H has not left the house. He is no longer raging. If I had to peg him I would say he is slowly but surely coming to the understanding that his relationship with OW was inappropriate. He told me the history of their relationship. He denies anything other than a friendship and still tells me it wasn't an affair. I told him to me it was an affair and that was all that mattered.

His parents and my parents and numerous others have spoken to him encouraging him to work on our marriage. He is not happy during these calls.

OW is still following him on social media. I need him to block her ASAP before we go any further. He knows my conditions and has said OW can be gone because she "means nothing" (haha, okay) but clearly the message needs to be driven home louder. We slept in the same bed last night and went to brunch this morning but I haven't confronted him again about what has to be done once and for all to remove OW.

He also still says things like "he is really done with me" but he is helping me around the house and laying next to me soooo clearly not.

There is a lot more I could say but I can't type it all on my phone. I know the no. 1 priority right now is that OW has to be gone. I need to drive home to H today that that cannot be delayed one second longer.

Hi birdy, thanks for the update. Let us know when you have exposed to the boss so we can move onto next steps. That is a critical exposure that can't be skipped. We realize that you are "wise," but so is Dr Harley. He has long experience saving marriages and you don't. It is real important that you follow the advice if you expect this to work.

P.s. He is not done with his affair. First off, he won't admit it and secondly, he has not even ended the affair. This is far from over because he is not done.

I think if you are honest you will admit it is fear that prevents you from exposing to his boss. I can understand your fear, but your greater fear should be of losing your marriage.

I don't consider myself more wise than Dr. Harley or any of you here, which is why I followed all the advice given to me up to this point. But I cannot in good conscious expose him to his boss. I cannot. The ramifications to my own life if we end up divorced if he loses his job prevent me from doing so at the very least. I am leaving my job and going back to school for a PhD.. We have a lease on two places right now as we try to move. He is supposed to support me while I'm in school. If he has no job, I am destitute and screwed whether we are married or not. I don't have the money to pay our two year lease. My name is next to his on he rent. If he has no job, and I'm not allowed to have a job in school, I will be financially ruined. My parents cannot support me.

I don't believe his affair is over and I don't believe this is done. I reiterated to him today that all contact must end. He is now sulking in the bedroom.

The problem with not doing anything because you are afraid if what "Might" happen is exactly THAT!!!

You DO NOT KNOW what his boss would do.

You can contact him directly, IN PERSON, and explain your valid financial concerns, and THEN, the boss could utilize that information in deciding what actions He May, Or May Not Take.

YOU DINT KNOW, Until You Reach Out To Him.

LTL

Chiming in, late to the party about not exposing to hubby's boss.
The old-timers may remember me. I'm divorced. Did not expose except to a few close friends. My ex's was "just" a deeply entrenched, "emotional affair."
This is where you will end up if you skimp on exposing to your hubby's boss. Divorced.
And so much for having financial support while you get your PhD. He will go underground with the affair and they will bond over your "misunderstanding" their "beneficial, benign friendship" and misunderstanding about how she is trying to help him to restore your marriage.
I'm the ghost of your future if you don't get to the boss and expose.

But you have not followed the advice to expose to his boss.


It has nothing to do with a "good conscious" but everything to do with FEAR.


You are looking at this backwards. You are headed to DIVORCE and won't have any benefits from the job. You have chosen the job over your marriage. As such, you need to be looking at the ramifications of DIVORCE.

He can get another little job. But you will have no benefit from any job if you are divorced. So, you need to be looking at it from that perspective.

Your best chance at staying married is to follow the advice that was given to you by a very "wise" and - EXPERIENCED - clinical psychologist.

You can scratch that plan. He won't support you if you are divorced.
He is already making his exit plans. His workplace is the last safe place for his affair. He has the ability to maintain his affair at work because you have protected his secret there. The OW thanks you for your support.

And what has happened with the exposures to the OW's family and friends? What about your contact with the OW? Was that really done? That was another epoxsure you were "afraid" about. Was that put aside too?

I don't know what you see in this that gives you any hope. He is not raging because he has successfully brushed aside your complaints and knows he can continue his affair safely at work.

Your husband knows that his affair is inappropriate already. Otherwise he wouldn't be hiding his affair.

And lastly, if he is only having a "friendship," why would you be reluctant in sharing that good news with his employer?

Blocking contact with her on social media will not matter as long as they still work together.

I did send Facebook messages to her family and friends. I clicked pay $1 to send straight to inbox but it never asked for my CC info so now I'm doubting it worked.

I also messaged her and told her to stay away.

And I did expose him to his biggest mentor in his field so I wouldn't say his work is a completely safe affair place.

I would say it is his safest affair place. His mentor has no authority over him and has no way to hold him accountable. All you have done is made it possible for the affair to continue.

Have you read surviving an affair yet?

You need to work through the checklist. He needs to get rid of social media and change his n u mber asap

I exposed my wife's affair to her employer on Day 2. To say that was a critical exposure is an understatement. That was the exposure that ended the affair and drove off the OM permanently.

Your failure to carry through with this sends the message to your WH that you think protecting his job from the justified affair fallout is more important than your marriage. It is also inherently dishonest. You are complicent in his stealing time and who knows what else from his employer. Also, you increase the likelihood this will turn out badly all the way around. Things like this have a way of coming around, and the cover up often looks worse than the original offense.

I would also expose to the OW's boss if you really want to kill this workplace affair. But it doesn't sound like any exposures went through to the OW's at all so not much damage was done here.

You are going to have to step it up if you want to kill the affair, Birdy. Half measures will avail you nothing. There is nothing stopping him from resuming his affair at work tomorrow.

How do I make sure the Facebook messages work then? I was on a PC and I clicked "pay $1 dollar." What did I do wrong there?

Do your messages show "read?"

Can you find the OW's mother's phone # and call her?

Indeed, tomorrow will be damage control day. By the time he is finished, you will have been lampooned as a crazy, delusional nut. That is what happens when you forewarn a wayward ahead of exposure. He has had a lot more time to plan all of this than you have had. He knows how to handle you, and by sticking with predictable behavior, he can finesse you. The boss will find out, but the story will be all about how crazy you are.

I was wondering what I was missing.

Why do you care if she follows him on social media if you don't care that they still have access to each other through the workplace?

Didn't your "gut" also tell you that your WH was not having an affair?

Try this remedy in the video:

No that wasn't my gut. It was just what I felt. It felt nothing like I feel now.

They do not work together. They work in the same profession. He could work anywhere any place and still potentially email her and text to her.

I have consulted with an attorney who has laid out my rights in a divorce situation. I would get support he told me.

All that being said, I am taking what you are saying seriously. Thank you all for caring enough to tell me like it is.

If you are saying that even if he gets a different job in this SAME profession, that there remains the potential for your WH to cross paths with this OW, then he will have to leave that profession in order to recover your M.

Are you talking about alimony? For a 3.5 yr marriage??

Divorce is financially DEVASTATING. Did this lawyer tell you that??

You might get some child support and a small alimony, but you are not going to be able to be a lady of leisure who is supported through college. I have NEVER heard of a wife getting much support in a 3 year marriage.

Besides, you will be competing with the OW for his income. Keep that in mind. He will strive to make sure she gets the lions share, not you.

I just re-listened to your segment regarding exposure and you ALREADY had this position when you talked to Dr Harley. You told Dr Harley you were the most worried and scared to expose to the employer, that your WH would really be "done" if you did this.

Dr Harley hashed this issue out with you, Birdy. He was ADAMANT that the employer be exposed to. He explained why it was so important to not skip this: Your H's profession is BIG PROBLEM for your M anyway - that it is a profession full of affairs, so if you keep it a secret and the A dies a natural death, "what's to stop him from having another affair?" and that there is already an issue with the career being more important than the marriage.

Dr Harley: "What I want to have for you is a H who is finally down on his knees begging forgiveness for what he has done and willing to do whatever to make it up to you. That's what I want as a final alternative for you. And you see, all these procedures I'm talking about make it more likely that that will happen."

Dr Harley's advice could not be more clear and you are ignoring it. You told Dr Harley how you felt about this VERY ISSUE and he flushed it out with you.

You are choosing your own plan over Dr Harley's. It really is that simple.

Birdy, you are not protecting yourself here. You realize you'll be divorced or insane by your thesis defense, correct? Wake UP Birdy!

I wanted to chime in on this earlier, but didn't want to cloud the issue at hand. Consulting with an attorney is great to do, but don't lose sight of your own logic with any advice they give you. First, they can not guarantee you that you will get support, that is for a judge to decide and the bottom line is you will either have to spend the money for an attorney to prove you deserve it or your H will have to agree IN WRITING that he will pay it. Your H may initially verbally agree to get you off his case, but that means nothing. You need to count on little or no support, only what is the minimal child support.

Susie is absolutely right Divorce is financially DEVASTATING for both of you, make sure you are taking care of you and use your own logic to consider suggestions of your legal representation keeping in mind they also have financial motives at stake. They can give their opinion, but that is all that they are giving is their best guess of what the judge will ultimately decide.

Don't play with words. They met through work. This is a workplace affair, and as such, the affair needs to be exposed at his job.

Don't count on his support while you're in school. Your marriage is on life support right now and you need to put this aside. Think about how you can become more self sufficient because you might need to be soon!

Besides, it almost sounds like a big part of your motivation for keeping the marriage is so that he will support you while you get your PHD. You're not going to wither on the vine of you don't go back to school for this degree.

You sound usurious when you talk about him taking care of you while you're in school. I would totally drop that plan for now if I were you.

Birdy, come on now. If you are working toward a PhD then you are clearly a smart girl. Do you REALLY think he is going to divorce you and then continue to support you through your PhD program? That is not going to happen.

You came here because he indicated that he is done with this relationship, and then discovered he is having an affair which he refuses thus far to end. Do not let a few nights of calm make you forget that. If he continues with the A (which he seems to plan to) he will continue to decide to leave. And then you are going through a divorce. And you know what they say "you never divorce the same person you marry." He will not willingly continue to support you during or after divorce, I don't care what he says. You will not be granted enough money to completely support yourself during or after the divorce either.

There is no rational or logical reason to not expose to the employer here. Surely you see that?

^Agree with the others.

Your marriage is too short for you to expect to receive much alimony (if any).

What is in front of you is an all or nothing proposition.

There are two possible outcomes...your husband decides to abandon the affair and work on your marriage, or he does not and you head toward Plan B and possibly divorce.

In either outcome you are hampering yourself by not exposing to the employer. He can't continue to work at his job if you recover because of its connection to OW. If you do not recover, you are sowing seeds of regret if you leave ANYTHING on the table here and do not fight as hard as possible. You will move on much more easily if you throw everything you've got at this, speaking from experience.

Once you've done everything you can, the rest of the outcome becomes a decision for the WS to make and not anything to do with you. You will value that greatly in 6 months, no matter what happens here.

Leave no stone unturned here and be thinking of a Plan B arrangement for your income and schooling rather than letting the fear of losing income control your decision making. The expenses of fighting an affair and/or Plan B/divorce might put some of your plans in life on hold for 6 months or so because of unexpected out-of-pocket expenses, but if you are resourceful (which I think you are) you will find ways to get back on your feet and continue marching towards that PhD.

Many, many of us have been exactly where you are right now and we can help you figure out how to make ends meet. You have a vast braintrust of experience here at MB with practical matters such as that, in addition to fighting this affair and recovering your marriage.

It is important to note from the radio show that your husband's obsession with his career is a gigantic threat to your marriage, even without the affair. By not exposing to his employer and by letting your fear govern you, you are sending the clear message that protecting his career from the just consequences of his actions is more important to YOU than preserving the marriage. You are also sending the clear message that his supporting your career is more important than the marriage, too. Anything that comes before your marriage will ultimately destroy it. Whether that be his career or yours, either way, your marriage will die. So, if you think the pursuit of your PhD is any kind of a way of coping with his career priorities, you had might as well just give up. I know something of what I speak. Both my wife and I have professional degrees. I have a PhD in electronics engineering and my wife has a MLS in library science. Because it was the best choice to recover our marriage from her affair, I had to retire early from my career. If I had acted otherwise, I doubt we would have recovered. Your marriage has to have the top priority, and you have to show that in your actions.

Birdy-I couldn't agree more with Mr. Eureka that affairs are like icebergs. I think there is a WHOLE lot more to this relationship than you know yet. It's gone far enough that he's telling her he loves her and has told you he's finished with your marriage (and if I understood right, is STILL telling you that even after this weekend's events). How will you feel if down the road you learn that this is a physical affair and is even more entrenched than you think it is and you didn't do everything you could to fight it?

If they weren't work contacts, the exposure to the boss might not be such a big deal. But the boss is the only person that has the power to eliminate their contact through work.

I discovered MB a year after the discovery of my husband's EA. I wish I had come here first...there are mistakes I could have avoided making. You were fortunate enough to have one of the world's foremost experts on infidelity (Dr. H) coaching you through this and you're throwing away his valuable advice and direction. Many betrayed spouses on this forum wish they could have had the direction you did and avoided costly mistakes. It's sad to see you being offered such extraordinary advice and not taking it seriously.

Take care...I know how hard things are right now.

Birdy,

Take this advice. You have nothing to lose at this point. Your marriage is already over if you don't expose anyway, so you might as well do it and see what happens. The worst case scenario is that the boss does nothing (which happened to me) in which case, you are in the same boat you are in now.

I also recommend internet exposure of the OW on shesahomewrecker or cheaterreports or something like that. Make sure just to post the facts (no names, no embellishment) and send that to her work contacts for good measure.