Next Monday I have a court date in front of a judge for child support issues. My attorney requsted the date due to WH attorney threatening to have no money put into joint account.
Got e-mail from WH today
Hey,
Want to see with you if you would reconsider Monday and try mediation again....probably after April? Since we are both away and all the birthdays....what do you think?
M
I'm not sure what to do. My attorney doesn't feel mediation would settle anything because we weren't even close the last time. PLus I think WH wants to show he has DS more so he won't have to pay CS for him if we have shared resisdence.
My first e-mail to him in response said I needed to think about it.
I'm thinking of e-mailing him this
Dear WH,
You know I don't want this divorce. Why dont we both stop the divorce proceedings, really work on our M istead of throwing away 27 years. And come home.
Otherwisw I think he is using this just to take more advantage of me.
I think you should stick with the attorney on this one. Your WH is not talking about trying to reconsile, but talking about trying to get things to be more favorable on his end, by delaying the court date and by using mediation. I would not accept his offer and I would not get upset oven this email. He's not working for you and the children, but for his own interests here.
My email would have probably been something like this:
I have spoken with my lawyer and we are going to proceed with the court date as scheduled.
Short and sweet and to the point. Let your lawyer handle the money issues...that's what he is getting paid to do.
Go to court. Your attorney isn't looking out for your WH, his interest is in earning what you pay him to help you and your family. I'm not saying that I have not been known to repeat that D is not what I wanted, but I never told WH to come home. I just stated, "This is not what I want". That's it.
He's asking you to try something that didn't work before because he is backed up against a wall. He has many choices, two of which are to a) come home, stop divorce, and work very hard to restore love and M.
b)DEAL...
He knows these choices; you have made the road map. Take care of you and your kids first, no matter WHAT he says. Remember, it's what he DOES. ACTIONS.
I wouldn't mention stopping the D. SHOW STRENGTH. He wants to see you weaken your fight. DO NOT. If he wanted to stop the D right now, he would, without you telling him. You know this Still.
During D proceedings and dealings, it is not the time to give in. You have extended that olive branch over and over. WH knows that you love him. You don't need to prove it over and over again. This is legality, not LOVE. They are not like chocolate and peanut butter; they are not two great tastes that go great together. Separate the issue here. You're rubber and he is glue, divorce bounces off you and sticks to him.
Agree--stick with your attorney. WH has more to lose and doesn't want to. Don't trust him. You know you can't trust him right now, right?
I don't think I would respond at all. If I did, it would be short. Like
"No." or "I don't want a divorce . . . ."
But you already responded and said you'd think about it? Um, mild 2x4 ahead: that was probably a mistake. You gave him some contact, he knows that he got to you, even if only a little bit. Did you post anything here before responding to his email? The main rule of Plan B is no contact with WS, so when you want to respond, don't. Wait. Breathe. Think about why you want to respond, what you hope to accomplish, and whether it's likely to succeed.
You're right. I talked to my attorney and he said it was up to me. He gave me 2 scenerios.
Right now I have acess to all his income, as he does to mine. And with the judge I'll get something in child support but it won't be as much as now.
But then again it would give me less issues to discuss with him.
SOmetimes I think if I do go with his request... that would mean mediation probably at the end of May. That would give me 2 more months to plan B. Also 2 more months for A to end. And it would drag out the D.
And then i think I just want this over so I can heal. And just because we divorce doesn't mean he couldn't come back. Because i absolutely don't want him as he is.
And sometimes the way I feel I could start living my life again. Find domeone who would love me.
I don't know today was a bad trigger day for me...Woke up crying...cried almost all day at work. Knowing things are getting closer. He laso mentioned he was going to his cousins with the kids for Easter. And I miss the fact I can't go to.
You have so much going on right now, and it's all so heavy. Let your attorney do their job. Try to think of it this way, your WH is not asking you to stop the D, he's asking you to leave him more money. With that knowledge, if YOU want to stall, if you have been waiting for an opportunity to do so, then do it. I wouldn't, however, give in to a sniveling, hindsighted WH, who is looking out for himself. Let your lawyer look out for you, in that case.
That's what I'm so confused about. I wanted this stalled.
It is like you said... he doesn't want to stop the D. He just want to try mediation again thinking he can manipulate me. And to have that mediation it'll cost around 1000. for me.
I told my attorney that I would think about it and let him know tomorrow morning.
The thing about dragging it also is it just keeps me in limbo for a longer period of time. Don't get me wtong I still want my M and I am doing everything I can, I'm just not sure agreeing with him right now id the right thing.
He alsready knows I don't want this D and why tell the WH that, I only want my H back.
With the BF of your daughter living with him, that may impact his fun in la la land with OW. My opinion, unsolicited, is to let it all rain down on him at once. You are not making any of this happen, these are the products of his choices.
Still, maybe just sleep on it, as much sleep as you can get.
You know I am no expert, but from the outside looking in,,, without My emotions being on the line, I say proceed
As SL says, it is time for him to face the reality and consequences of HIS actions
I know none of this helps your heart right now, but know you have done and continue to do what you can for your M. H has to show up,,,and that email was from selfish WS. Treat him as such
Will be thinking of you and keeping you in my prayers
Want to see with you if you would reconsider Monday and try mediation again....probably after April? Since we are both away and all the birthdays....what do you think?
My response w/b something like:
[color:"blue"]Hey?!??hm....is that how you address your W?
Please provide a reason for reconsidering mediation. Last time it didn't work. You are still a WS who has chosen to abandon his family, so please tell me why you now want mediation. I will take it under reasonable consideration providing you give me something reasonable to consider.
Sincerely, Your Wife [/color]
See now that w/b my response because if I don't get a reasonable explanation what's in it for me to consider? Just to get short-changed, stomped on?!??!? Don't like those options.
I guess you could say I''m still sitting on the fence. All night tossed and turned and asked God to send me an answer. And I asked God to send an naswer I would under stand (feel rather dense right now)
Just got up real quick to check reponses and to see how much snow we got...about 8 inches and still snowing. Kids have a snow day today. We'll do something fun later.
Everyone thanls for all the support. I'm going back to bed for a little longer.
He knows you and your "emotional buttons" after 22 years, but he could care less about God, so you don't even "rate" on his radar screen.
This is STILL "all about WH" and what HE wants.
IF he truly wants mediation, let him obey God FIRST.
"Drink waters out of thine own cistern, and running waters out of thine own well. Let thy fountains be dispersed abroad, and rivers of waters in the streets. Let them be only thine own, and not strangers' with thee. Let thy fountain be blessed: and rejoice with the wife of your youth. Let her be the the loving hind and pleasant roe; let her breasts satisfy thee at all times; and be thou ravished always with her love. And why wilt thou, my son, be ravished with a stange woman, and embrace the bosom of a stranger? For the ways of man are before the eyes of the LORD, and he pondereth all his goings. His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins. He shall die without instruction; and in the greatness of his folly he shall go astray." (Proverbs 5:15-23, KJV, emphasis added)
He "bargains" with God and he "bargans" with you, all in order to continue in his sin without consequences.
Honor God and stand against his latest attempt to manipulate you into letting him continue without "disturbing" his self-centerd fantasy.
I'm not sure I agree with pushing for a court date.
Attorneys DO DIVORCE.
I don't want to CONFUSE things, coming in on this so LATE but I actually agree with your first E-MAIL...where you SAY come home..don't waste 27 years... stop all of this CRAP...
Still, can you take a different route the next time that you go get coffee?
I try to take a different route myself and if I do pass my the house...I don't look...why, because I would be inflicting pain on myself...
This is WHAT I NEED to have peace...what DO YOU NEED to have peace? What can you control about your pain...about not getting hurt? What can YOU do to have some peace?
Stay out of other people's business and being in Plan B your WH's business is none of your's.
Still, I'm not trying to be mean, I understand that you are hurting but you HAVE TO practice this for your own peace of mine!
I know I'm making it worse on myself. And I do have to take a different route. It's really hard.
I feel like I spinning out of control in my plan B because of that stupid e-mail yesterday. In some ways it got my hopes up again.
But he still is being a pig. I've got to wonder she doesn't seem to spend much time with her kids. Cause Tues night she wasn't home either and DS was with WH.
I know none of my concern. Need to call my attorney and get back into plan B gear.
Still PS Rin you are not being mean at all. Your are being a friend.
Do you have a sponsor yet? I think that it would be wise for you to get one. It will help you with staying present, focused, help you let the program a little faster...
A IRL...other POV to help out...I think this will do you wonders...as for WH...he's going to lie to you and munipulate the situation any way that he can to control you into doing what's best for him...
I haven't read the email but I know that he only looks at his interests and not yours...YOU have to protect you b/c it [email]da@n[/email] sure it's going to...lip service...that's all he's good for at this point...
Actions are inconsitent with his words...
Still, you are a young, vivant, strong, talented woman...who has fought some tough odds...get yourself unstuck and start moving forward...no matter how slow...keep moving...
You have your whole life ahead of you...perhaps just as long as you have been alive...YOU ARE lovable...you deserve to be treated better with tons more respect...
LOL...OKay...I'm done with the pep talk this morning...
:Stepping down off my soap box: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I wasn't able to make Mondays meeting. Do I just ask at the meeting?
Thanks for the pep talk. I really needed that.
I'm glad you think I'm strong because right now I feel very weak. Controling myself from calling and begging again to stop this divorce. Now that's not what a goddess would do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Kind of bummed wanted to go shopping today but weather stinks. Maybe I'll go later.
Need an outfit for court on Monday if I don't cancel.
I'm with Rin,,,,, you ARE one STRONG woman! Look how far you have come under the most painful of circumstances!
You didn't crawl in a hole, you didn't give up, you have KEPT MOVING FORWARD - - and you can continue to do so.
Ok, allow yourself that you had started to slip off the horse. Grab onto that saddle horn, pull yourself up, and take the reins in your hands. YOU are guiding this horse, no one else.
Sorry the weather stinks,,,,, I know how that dreary weather gets to me, too.
But, light a fire or turn up the heat in the house, take a bubble bath, light some candles, put on some GREAT music, slip on those Goddess undergarments! Loosen up those chains and dance girl!
Yeap, just ask someone that you like or you think will be hard on you...just ask, that's all I did...do you have a list of names from the meeting...phone numbers...someone that you can call from al-anon that can support you when you are feeling this way...
The main thing I need you to remember is that you will not allow him to have his cake and eat it too...
Do you remember a few days ago CJ told me to write on my hand: Is he trying to get a reaction out of you?
Unfortunately, you are in a war...it's called D and your WH is out to win...yes, you fell weak but that feeling will cause you to lose some stuff that you may need in the future...perhaps not for you but for your kids...
please, PLEASE...don't cancel and don't allow yourself to be sucked in...
Aren't you pi44ed off for all the times that he lied to you, use you to get what he wanted or needed, said hateful things to you, thought of himself more than the kids...
I use my anger to promote my action in the right direction...yes, I'm hurt but you know what there will ne time later to deal with that...right now, I have to watch my back...because if I don't two little kids are going to get screwed in the process and I WILL NOT allow that to happen if I can help it...
It's a matter of choices...what's yours? Do you want to keep being the victim or have you had enough?
He is going to offer keeping things right now as the status quo in a court order. So that WH can't just stop depositing his check into joint account like his attorney threatened.
And he is going to tell that the Sunday hasn't been decided it only happened once. so far.
Why am I still so afraid to get him mad at me. After everything this man has done to me. I don't wamt him to be mad at me.
Then I wonder am I doing the Sunday thing for my benefit and not DS's. I really need to reflect on that. I'm just afraid the CS will not be there if I allow DS to go there on Sunday nights.
And yes I want everything I want get out of him because he hurt me so bad. And right now financially is what is going to hurt him.
LOL...I can relate to not wanting to get "him" mad...do you have any al-anon books...the book one or the yellow one...
I recommend reading on fear in the blue book...pg 10 is good...well, they are all good!
Basicaly, you have to live through that fear...the opposite of fear is courage...and usually our fear is half or sometimes nothing of what happens...
So what if he gets mad...that's about him and not about you! He can be mad and you don't have to let it effect you...
Once you start living beyond your fear it WILL get easier, I promise and YOU WILL feel SOOO MUCH better about yourself...
I really understand...but you have to take the steps to empower yourself...it will give you a sense of freedom, perhaps you have never felt before...
YOU can NOT control his reaction...Have you been reacting your whole life? I ask because I was! It's hard to stop that and start taking action but YOU can do this!
I have faith in you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I do believe I have been reacting all my life to him. It seems my whole life or at least a big chunk of it I have been trying to please him. And in the beginning we were both trying to please each other.
Then it went off and on like all of our marriages. Then it was only me trying to please him.
I don't have any books from alanon. The meeting I have been attending is small (about 7people) and they really don't have a budget. Do you know if you can get Alanon books at a bookstore.
Which one would you recommend. Because I really do need the empowerment I can get from those books.
Because the last 2 days I have been feeling defeated and feel that there is no hope at all. I want my feeling of empowerment back like I had last week.
Rin and Bugs thank you for being here for me today I really need it.
I like the blue book better, One day at a time, I found mine at a used bookstore for $4.00...I'm not sure if they have it at a new bookstore...
I can say that I read and read when I first got them...oh, and that's a good size group...about the same as the ones that I go to...just enough to do the hour! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Like my IC said yesterday, you have lived in HIS reality for so long that you begin to think that it's the truth when it's not...that's why they close you off from OP...another form of control...
I didn't talk to my family all that much, has no friends to call my own, just the kids and Him!
Your story sounds like mine...everything became about him...I gave and gave until I had nothing else to give...it's time to start taking back yourself...
Myself...the whole point to PLan B...goddress wear...doing things YOU like...getting out...whatever it takes to make YOU feel good...
Easier said than done, I know...but you have to stop the "what if's" and "should have" that's the reason we get stuck...you have to actually tell yourself "No, I'm not going to do this to myself!" and think of something positive...
I know you KNow This! LOL...I just like to repeat myself sometimes! LOL
Still, you're doing so well. This is really hard stuff--probably the hardest thing you will ever do. But it is so worth it. You know you couldn't keep going the way you were. You made the decision to start Plan B, and it was the right one. You've done really well in Plan B so far. Keep it up!
He wants you to respond. He's trying to break your Plan B. Don't give in.
He will get mad. You know that that's not your fault. That's him beginning to feel the consequences of his own decisions--his own bad behavior. He will blame you, but you know that it's not your fault. You are, in fact, doing everything you can to help him, but he won't know that.
Do you know the name of the blue book off hand? Or is it just called the blue book?
I'll check out the bookstore and try the library for the book.
I'm starting to feel guilty about not answering WH e-mail, stupid huh. Also feeling guily about this Sunday night thing. Wondering if I'm doing it for the wrong reasons. WH has been a better dad to DS lately then ever before. I still feel like I do most of the work.
Also afraid I'm going to get screwed in this divorce... WH gets to cheat and have his ho on the side. Will not have to pay CS and get everything he wants and I get screwed by him again.
Not studip, normal..I went through that...and I'm sure that I'll do it again...NORMAL...you'll be okay!
No self-doubt...trust yourself in knowing that you've made a good decision...do not start self-sabbotaging...you will only create more heartache and pain for yourself...why do that?
I saw a what if?
Quote
Also afraid I'm going to get screwed in this divorce...
What did LA say? M2L, has it in sig line...
Worrying is like praying for what you don't want!
Please don't live in tomorrow and I'm saying this because I find that from time to time I do it...I may need to be reminded myself!
YOU ARE DOING GREAT! Today...today is the only day that's important...not court day...not next month...not Sunday...Today!
I would like to do something with you that I often do when *I* am afraid of something. I call it "The Worst Case Scenario."
It goes like this (and I will use my own personal fears so you can learn how to play):
I am very much afraid of having no place to live--either being kicked out of my home, or having one of those fights where one of the hurtful weapons against me is, "This is not your home! It was never YOUR home!" and then feeling like I have no place where I belong...me and my things.
So, to soothe my fears, I play "The Worst Case Scenario." What is the absolute WORST thing that could happen if what I am terrified of actually comes true? What if we really do have a HUGE knock-down, drag-out fight and he really does say, "This is not YOUR home! It was never YOUR home!"?? What if I really am kicked out and have nowhere to go? I would be homeless. Except that I do have a bank card, and at the very least I could get a motel room. Gee--you can rent them for a week too! And I do have a job, so although I would be very upset and find it hard to concentrate, eventually I would get my paycheck and be able to rent an apartment! And if I lost every single one of my possessions (had no furniture, etc.) I have friends who would let me borrow--and I could go on Freecycle and get some stuff for free. Yeah, it wouldn't be the Taj Mahal but I would be okay! I would survive! And that's the WORST thing that could happen. That means that anything else would be less scary than that...and that's not so scary!
How about you? You are afraid of "making him mad." Okay, let's play "The Worst Case Scenario." Let's say that you decide to be the Wicked Bee-itch of the West and make him PAY for his two affairs. You decide you are going to SICK BALLS and you turn your attorney lose on him. You demand twice as much CS as the formula suggests; you demand all the equity in the house; you demand life-long spousal support. OH YEAH! THAT BOY IS GONNA PAY! And he gets mad. Not just mad, but raging, ranting, screaming, yelling, threatening, knock-down, drag-out MAD!!!
What happens? He can't scare you with "I'll move out" or "I'll kick you out" or anything, because he has already chosen to leave! He could stop paying into the joint account, and you'd have to work or live at a lower lifestyle then you're used to now--but Gee you could do that! You're smart and capable, creative and intelligent. You could get a cute little townhouse for you and the kids, and decorate it up from the thrift store--and paint old furniture--and have a darn cute, cozy, CHEAP little life. What can he do to you? Scream? Nope--only if you listen to it. He chose to leave--you can hang up the phone and delete the voice message! You don't have to listen to his ranging anymore. Soooooo...there's not much his anger can do, is there? And that's the WORST case scenario! You can survive that, and that's the WORST!! Anything else would be easier!
Still, you are in a cycle. You have grown used to the dynamic of your R with WH. Shake that guilt off, for it is not yours. You are suffering the consequences of YOUR decisions to Plan B (as with all decisions, good and bad), and Plan D. The constant stream of emails and contact that your H throws at you do not help you to focus. They muddle you. Do not respond to his emails. He disrespects your wishes by calling and emailing. You aren't angry right now, not really. Once the anger comes in, you will have more resolve.
I still love my H, but have no time for the wayward. Truly, seriously, I'm not kidding. When my H peaks out, I'm intrigued, but the hold that those moments had on me has passed. Yes, I still get triggered from those moments, but I am much more triggered by the past and by MY OWN THOUGHTS.
Rin is right, TODAY, focus on today, get through today, enjoy bits of today, take care of CURRENT business. Divorce is business. Let your attorney do his job. If your H was controlling, that is something that I'm sure is a struggle to let go of, in itself.
For me personally changing my broke way of thinking was the hardest.
I really like CJ's game though.
My broke way of thinking was a habit. Even though I knew the dynamic between the FWW and I was wrong I wanted her and it was a habit to engage in my typical way.
In most relationships you will see this. Healthy and unhealthy.
Last night the FWW were in the kitchen together. We were watching her friends son and we were cooking. Her friend laughed at us.
I instinctively knew where she was moving and she knew where I was moving. It looked choreographed. She reached across me I reached under her. I grabbed the drawer she backed up a little. I grabbed the milk she grabbed the measuring cup.
We get used to doing those things togheter and we know the others reaction. Had her friend stepped into the kitchen it would have messed us up.
The thing now is your H knows you and what your reaction to many of these things will be. You on the other hand are not dealing with the same person anymore.
So he has a uperhand on you.
I would suggest moving forward as if he is not a friend or an enemy.
Treat him with the indifference you may treat a rude stranger.
Do nothing out of emotion. You will be ok.
From now on throw a wrench in his choreographed ballet. Just stand on the wall and let him figure out what next.
It's time to start reciting the serenity prayer again.
Let's see if I do this right: EGG ZAK LEE
I have it pinned up on my bulletin board just above my computer at work. Right above this quote from Pittman:
"I advise spouses who are waiting for their mate's romance to end: don't try to out-romance a romantic. Don't bother to arouse jealousy. Don't try to get your partner's attention, increase your partner's guilt, or threaten some kind of unpleasantness. Just express your point of view and then go off and do whatever holds you together during this time."
You know what you need to do. And yes, it's hard. But it will get easier. And it will get better.
Thank you all so much. I hope I didn't forget anyone.
My WH was and is a very controling man and has little respect for me. And I'm changing that. He can't control me just like I can't control him. And the respect thing well I have absolutely no respect for him and his ways right now so what do I care if he doesn't respect me. I will treat him as a rude stranger.
CJ I like that game. My biggest fear is being alone and having no one love me. What's the worst thing that could happen? I'd never have someone hug me or ever have S*x again. Help me out here CJ, I need your clarification on this.
I haven't responded to his e-mail and I still don't know if I have court on Monday. Went shopping with DD and her BF and I pick out a sassy skirt and top thanks to DD. My Easter/Court outfit if needed.
My WH was and is a very controling man and has little respect for me. And I'm changing that. He can't control me just like I can't control him. And the respect thing well I have absolutely no respect for him and his ways right now so what do I care if he doesn't respect me. I will treat him as a rude stranger.
I see he's still at it. And so it will continue I'm sure, I'm sorry he's so clueless but I'm glad to see you are being realistic as well. Respect is so important, this is a good learning for him. If he can look inside himself to do this. A good learning for you too! Hang in there! You are doing it...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
based upon my many interactions with Jennifer and her suggestions to keep "putting out the hand"
i would say something like:
Dear H,
I also think that we could work through any problems together if we are both willing to try and are working towards the same goal. My goal continues to be saving our marraige and keeping our family together. With that in mind, I would be happy to cancel the court date if you would like to attend COUNSELING together to work towards reconciliation.
ps
i honestly doubt that he's ready to accept your offer (he still sound very deep in the fog) so maybe stalling is a better idea
(that's MY big plan!!)
if you really want to STALL
then go ahead and try mediation
maybe it will open a door towards reconciliation
and it will buy you time
even if you end up not agreeing and going to court later
I haven't responded to his e-mail and I don't think I have court on Monday. Haven't heard from attorney and I was suppose to meet with him today if we do have to go to court on Monday.
Would Jennifer want me to extend the "olive branch" in plan B? He knows that I don't want this D.
My attorney also said now it looks like June or July... guess lots of people getting divorces. So that does give more time for planB.
Eve, have you been reading princessmeggy thread on her story? She mentions that she was 2 days away from D when they turned it around. So there is still hope for all of us.
Serenty prayer for all of us here on Good Friday
God grant me the Courage to change the things I can change, the Serenity to accept those I cannot change, and the Wisdom to know the difference. But God, grant me the courage not to give up on what I think is right, even though I think it is hopeless.
That's what I thought also about the olive branch.
I have no intermediary so unfortunately we have to have communication only when it pertains to bills and kids. I have been ignoring all the other e-mails and tel calls. The only one I answered back was that I would think about outting off court date.
I have not talked to him on the phone since the first day oor two in plan B because I told him to read my letter. Other than that no telephone calls. It hurts too much to hear his voice.
I am accepting the present and hoping for the future... whatever that may hold.
There is something else I wanted toa sk you. I know you called yourself the drive by queen. Did you stop that in plan B?
This is what I am having trouble with... she lives on a street that is my route to everywhere. And where we got about a foot of snow yesterday her driveway hasn't been driven in or plowed for last 2 days. So my imagination is working overtime that she was probably with him. How long into plan B did you do drivebys if you did?
Also just got informed by my attorney that Monday is cancelled there is now a court order that we will continue contributing our paychecks into joint account. My attorney had ordered the court date because WH attorney threatened us at mediation about having WH stop contributing to joint account.
I have no intermediary so unfortunately we have to have communication only when it pertains to bills and kids. I have been ignoring all the other e-mails and tel calls. The only one I answered back was that I would think about outting off court date.
So does this mean that you are actually reading E-Mails from him? Can you set things up so that you do not have to do this? Otherwise this defeats one of the important purposes of PLAN B, for you to be PROTECTED from him..in order to safeguard your love for him. NO CONTACT is supposed to work both ways...NO CONTACT FROM HIM AND TO HIM...He will ASSUME that he is continuing to contact you and that WILL MEET SOME NEED OF HIS...he is to not be able to contact you unless he is ending his affair...I WORKED ON PRETENDING THAT MY H DID NOT EXIST..hard to do but that was best for me...
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There is something else I wanted toa sk you. I know you called yourself the drive by queen. Did you stop that in plan B?
I won't say that I DID NOT do ANY DRIVEBYS during PLAN B...If and when I did, I was WRONG..they were a BIG MISTAKE..come to find out, though, the DRIVEBYS don't REALLY tell you anything...times I assumed my H wasn't there because I didn't see his car..he REALLY WAS THERE..she had picked him up from somewhere..times her car was NOT THERE and I ASSUMED they were not there and they probably were..MY DRIVEBYS were foolish and stupid...only caused me MORE HURT AND PAIN...
Stop driving by her place, Still..
Go ahead and ASSUME that they are spending as much time as possible together and that IS A GOOD THING DURING PLAN B...you want her to TRY to mee ALL OF HIS NEEDS so that he can see who she REALLY IS..SHE WILL LIKELY FAIL..especially given the length of your marriage..she is CLUELESS on how to best take care of him...
Stay as far as you can from the WAYWARDS...you will be bringing yourself into the PRESENCE OF EVIL..you want to begin LIVING IN THE LIGHT....
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Also just got informed by my attorney that Monday is cancelled there is now a court order that we will continue contributing our paychecks into joint account.
[ So does this mean that you are actually reading E-Mails from him? Can you set things up so that you do not have to do this? Otherwise this defeats one of the important purposes of PLAN B, for you to be PROTECTED from him..in order to safeguard your love for him. NO CONTACT is supposed to work both ways...NO CONTACT FROM HIM AND TO HIM...He will ASSUME that he is continuing to contact you and that WILL MEET SOME NEED OF HIS...he is to not be able to contact you unless he is ending his affair...I WORKED ON PRETENDING THAT MY H DID NOT EXIST..hard to do but that was best for me...]
I do have to open his e-mails... really we don't communicate very much so I don't think I'm meeting a very big need. Today we have e-mailed due to my running out of oil again. His not paying the full amt of bill. Other than that I ignore them. I'll have to figure out another way about the e-mails then.
I'll start to think as WH not even existing.. that may help because then I can start to move forward.
[ I won't say that I DID NOT do ANY DRIVEBYS during PLAN B...If and when I did, I was WRONG..they were a BIG MISTAKE..come to find out, though, the DRIVEBYS don't REALLY tell you anything...times I assumed my H wasn't there because I didn't see his car..he REALLY WAS THERE..she had picked him up from somewhere..times her car was NOT THERE and I ASSUMED they were not there and they probably were..MY DRIVEBYS were foolish and stupid...only caused me MORE HURT AND PAIN.. ]
It does cause me alot of pain.. maybe what I should do is start counting days off my calender that I don't drive by instead of days in plan B. And your probably right about them actually not being together all the time I think they are. And I will assume that they are together every minute he doesn't have son. I do that anyway, except when I drive by and see her car there. Although you're right he could of picked her up.
Thanks Mimi I am trying to live in the light.
Still
PS Still having trouble with quoting... some dogs are just to old to learn new tricks.
I really think for you own sake that you need to set something up different than this. Among other reasons, you will not be able to withdraw from him. You will be in constant pain.
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. Today we have e-mailed due to my running out of oil again. His not paying the full amt of bill.
This is NOT PLAN B. When he pays the bill, he fullfills a FAMILY COMMITMENT need...kwowing you NEED HIM fulfills a NEED..the point that needs to be communicated is that you are moving on..will have NO CONTACT WITH HIM OR NEED FOR HIM UNTIL HE ENDS HIS AFFAIR...not being able to pay your utilites is a MAJOR ISSUE that needs to be worked out SOMEHOW...
Let's do something bold here and not discourage still. Still, as long as you have ANY contact with him, in ANY form, over ANY thing--you will not be able to fully withdraw from him (or he from you), and therefore there will still be very, very minimal needs met.
You have come a LONG, LONG way from the first few days when we had to go an hour at a time. Remember that? Now, let's figure out a way to go that final step--to NO contact whatsoever of any kind.
I kept access to an account, though, in which my H deposited money and also had my own account.
As I recall, he did at some point stop putting money in there for a time period.
WHes play power games with money, I think..and BWes have to exert power..with whatever means necessary to take the reins back..that's a way of keeping some hold on you...
My position was..my mindset, I mean..was that he was OBLIGATED TO TAKE CARE OF ME/US and I was going to FIGHT LEGALLY..not with HIM... to insure that that happened...
Oh still! You ARE doing good!! You are making great strides. Now the final step, for both you and your WH, is to allow you to have complete peace and for him to FULLY experience the consequences of his choices.
See, still, I used to be more like you. I used to think I would be appreciated and loved if I saved people from experiencing the consequences and allowed them to not be responsible for their choices. What I didn't realize is that it stunted their growth to not experience consequences. Yeah, they never felt pain, but they also never grew emotionally or spiritually because they never had to "learn their lessons." I was preventing that by saving them!!
Thus, if you truly love your WH and want to have the best chance for a full recovery, the fastest way for him to have the best chance of learning his lessons is to experience life WITHOUT still and WITH only MOW to depend on. In no time at all, they will be fighting over step-kids, "EX's" (in their mind), money, EVERYTHING!! But if you don't step out of the way, it's like God can only give him half of his lesson--AND you get hit with half of what HE really does need to experience in order to grow.
Sooooo...imagine your life without his control attempts, still. Imagine life where YOU pay your own bills and don't have to worry about whether he will pay or not. Imagine life where you don't drive by the house and don't have that daily pain of wondering/worrying/thinking about "them." Imagine life where you have to budget, but you can also paint if you want to...or draw...or go square dancing. Imagine life where the schedule for the kids is set in stone (versus him messing with your life and "doing it when he wants") and you can make a schedule for YOURSELF! Imagine life where you drop off the kids at daycare/school and he picks them up...and you never have to even see him!! Imagine a life where you never again have to hear him call you names or scream or swear!
Doesn't that sound PEACEFUL???
See, still...that is Plan B for a BS. And that is why we want you to get there ASAP. It is a breathe of fresh air for you, and you begin to heal--and it is an opportunity for him to learn his lessons FULLY ON HIS OWN if he is going to learn them.. AND there is hope, because once he sees full on how life with the MOW is not such a rose garden, he MIGHT see how life with you was not so bad and how he might have been the one to make it worse! There is HOPE that he will learn and grow from this!
So let's brainstorm how to get your finances un-entangled and how to find an intermediary...
Still, given the level of attachment that you started with, I think you *are* doing really well. But it's true that the darker you can go, the more effective your plan will be. Get an intermediary for emails if you can. They may be only business-like now, but when he realizes it's the only way he can get to you, the content of the emails will change, and you need to be ready for that.
I like the idea of separating money. Do you have your own account yet? If not, you should get one. That will give you another bit of independence.
And no drive-bys. I had to fight the urge for a while (and gave in a time or two), but they just don't help anything.
It does sound very peaceful. And I had thought I was just about there.
I feel really good when I have no contact with him. And I can't wait to get to the place where I feel peace.
I'm just not sure how to separate finances... I'm working this weekend and if it's slow I will look over my budget.
That's the biggest issue right now. The schedule with the kids is pretty much set. DD16 (17 next week) doesn't see him very often. DS14 seehim on just about a set schedule and I amke sure I'm not around when he gets him.
Next Wednsday I leave for Disney with DD for almsot a week for softball. And WH and DS are leaving Friday for a week. So we will have no contact with each other.
My finances are separate from my WH. I've always had my own checking, savings, credit cards. I then took over all of the bills. WH currently pays me every two weeks for the house (considered alimony) and the CS. There are no discussions.
What I did.
I opened an excel spreadsheet and labelled every bill that we had together, and the dollar amount per month. When WH lived at home, I would just tell him that every two weeks he owed me $ for Daycare and bills. When I took this to my lawyer's office, she told me he was only responsible for the mortgage, equity loan and CS. WH agreed and that is how we do it. There have been days that he forgets to transfer funds, but that hasn't been a problem lately.
If you have the same bank, he can transfer funds to your newly opened account. I would talk to your lawyer and find out what he is/needs to be paying for, and have him directly deposit the funds to your account. Change the name to yours only on the utilities, etc. This is how it will be after D, and it is part of the whole process. I did this last year after entering Plan B.
So, gather all of your bills and start calling the companies; tell them that you are taking care of payment and the bills should be sent to your address. In some cases, you will have to open a new account with your name on it ( I had to for my electricity), in some cases they will just change the name.
Still, the contact I have had with WH lately (about 3--from him, 2 from me) keep things light for him. I do not email him anymore (after about 3 weeks separated) It took me longer the last time I was in Plan B. I have burned through 3 intermediaries and no one seems to be able to stick it, so I have given up on that.
I understand your frustration here. I had asked Jennifer about not having an intermediary, and the response that I got was to stick to STRICTLY business. Short phrases or sentences. I told her that my WH tended to forget to deposit funds, and I can't really wait for him to get it, so she said just to send a one word reminder. I send the work FUNDS?
I'm not nearly as impacted by emails as I was before, but I'm in a much different place now. I think I'm ready for D, if it happens. I'm not happy about it, and I want my family back, but I'm ready, so staying quiet is not difficult for me.
That is something to work towards. Our finances have always been together. He always took care of the bills. That is why I think he also is having trouble letting go of it. And in the begininng I was pushing harder for seperation for finances. He didn't like letting go. Then we jsut kind of went into a pattern. Your right I do need to get bills in my name especially those pertaining to the house. The spread sheet is a great idea.
I tried to change oil and they wouldn't let me. I needed his permission. Haven't checked on electricity and phone. I'll have to do all this when I get back from Disney.
His e-mails don't upset me but I still get a twinge of longing. I will keep all discussions business like. That's what I have been doing. Butt I'll make it even more so. He does try to lighten it up I just usually ignore it.
Thanks for the information on how you are doing it.
Run your own show, Still. Make choices pertaining to YOUR situation, do not consider WH at all. If you are going to be the one living in the house, and he is not, then TELL him to give permission to change the oil to your name. I had to do this with my car insurance and with my cable. I had to open an entirely new account for electricity. It's a pain in the [censored] for about two weeks, but when it's done, you take control.
Get your lawyer involved if you must, but get EVERYTHING separated. I like the idea, on one hand and I DIDN'T like it on the other. I didn't like separating everything because it was the sign to WH to really just cut out. The only responsiblity he had was to remember to pay me every two weeks. We had no connections. NOW, I know that WH was more feeling CUT OUT of my life. That's separation/divorce! That's the way it works. I think of this as a small step; a large step was something like what Mimi had to do in selling her home and buying a new one. That was a clear 'moving on, getting on with life' step.
1. Make a list of utilities that need to be in your name. Start the process; even if you have to open new accounts. 2. Change cell phone number - this will drive him nutz. If there is an emergency he can call ______ and _____ will call you immediately. 3. Find your 3rd party! There is someone and it's got to happen. 4. Love and protect yourself from the WH as humanly possible. 5. Don't beat yourself up over an accidental contact. 6. Change your life a lil bit! Do something new unrelated to your WH. This can be REALLY SMALL. 7. Trust me when I say, GO DARK! As dark as you can. It works. It takes time but it works! 8. Picture the reality of your WH and his OP, they are not happy and they are playing games with one another - TRUST ME! This is no happy place he's in. You can just go dark and propell him over the edge.
Kinda concerns me but I kinda like this list! LOL I think reality is the best cure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
In order for PLAN B to be effective, it is important for the WS to suffer the consequences of his actions, to suffer and to not get any ENs met by you.
My H TRIED to continue to meet his FAMILY COMMITMENT/DOMESTIC SUPPORT NEEDS by PROVIDING for his family, saying to himself it's OK that I abandoned them, I continue to take care of them so he HATED that I took away this option and then tried to PUNISH me by withholding funds at one point....
It was difficult..for all of our married life, over 25 years, we had NEVER HAD SEPARATE ACCOUNTS..and we no longer have separate accounts now...
This is all aimed at helping you to RECOVER your marriage..not to proceed towards ENDING your marriage...
The separation of the finances is aimed at not allowing him to feel that he is continuing to be RESPONSIBLE although he is gone..
My H also continued to try to contact me by calling me on the cell. I changed my number. In the end, he got my number from my realtor. He came to learn that I would NEVER answer an UNKNOWN NUMBER and I was able to NEVER answer at work..
Thank-you... you all have been extremely helpful. I will work on getting things in my name and finaces separated.
I guess I was afraid to do that becuase it meant it really was happening. I will play CJ game of what is the worst possible thing that could happen. When I do separate accounts i could get further in debt...will have to live on less. The kids will have to do with less. I have a job that I love and does pay pretty well. I will probably have to go to full time.
You all have me really thinking. I haven't cut him out comppletely, there is still a thin string and I need to cut that also.
I am proud of myself I didn't drive by her house tonight. Now hopefully I can also do that tomorrow morning on my way to work.
On a lighter note DD and i had a great time tonight. We went to the mall and Olive garden after her SB practice. Got her a few things. We had a great conversation on the way down and way home. We laughed and sang. We made plans to go hiking this summer like we use to. I can't wait.
We also remiminist (sp) about our family vacations.
I also heard from DD19 tonight from Germany... her BF broke up with her this morning. It's so hard to be so far away from her right now. I know how hurt she feels. I told her to put her left hand on the back of her right shoulder and her right hand on the back of her left shoulder and squeeze. That was me hugging her.
I told her to put her left hand on the back of her right shoulder and her right hand on the back of her left shoulder and squeeze. That was me hugging her.
wow, ur thread moved a little to fast for me today...I'm just happy to have internet access today...
Can you do that hug thing twice...once from me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
HI, MIMI! I've missed u! I wanted to thank you for your support when I needed it...I REALLY needed that validation and the time and I can't tell you HOW MUCH it meant to me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Sorry, Still...I've been waiting for the opportunity...I appreciate being able to say it here!
God DOES hear your prayers! We just don't always get the answers in the way and time that WE want. I wish it were different, too!!
I want to say this gently,,,but you do not know how God is dealing with your WS, and at this point you have to let that go.
Yes, WS puts up a great front that all is well, but we do not know what is going on inside. HE knows he is not right with GOD,, but more importantly, GOD knows.
As hard as it it, and you know that I KNOW how hard it is - - But I tell myself every day, that I have to leave God's Plan in God's hands. It's HIS job to deal with WS in his own way in his own time.
I wish I had a better answer for you,,,,but try to keep the faith. God loves you and He does want the Best for you. He is listening,,,keep on talking to Him!
mimi said that jennifer recommended that i extend a hand to my h after YEARS of plan B
not so
i went into plan B on Oct 17, 2005 with continued e-mail contacts through the end of april 2005 (i DON'T recommend ANY kind of contact now that i see it didn't help but instead HURT my situation)
in fact, i've been in plan B for 1 YEAR and 6 MONTHS so it's not even possible that it was after YEARS of plan B
(in fact, that comment really hurt me mimi)
jennifer made the suggestion several times, One was when he wanted to file taxes together in April 2006
6 months after i started plan B
i will have to go back and check the other times but they were all around this time if i recall correctly
i haven't had any contact with him at all since July 2006 so her suggestions were made BEFORE i had been in plan B for 9 MONTHS
although she did recently say it would be okay for me to send another letter to say i am still interested in reconciliation
but why bother really
i seem to be the poster child for how MB can fail even those who try really hard to save thier marraige
With spring and Easter and all the talk of rebirth... renewal, I just want that for my M. They still is a little flicker of hope. It is dying quickly. I think it's just because it another first by myself.
A complete week without seeing WH. Last time I saw him wsa at DS hockey game last weekend.
He did text me Happy Easter... didn't respond back. It does make me sad to have even that today. I'm sure he thought he was being nice I just looked at it as not respecting my wishes.
The kids had a good day with him and I'm glad they did. I am a little jealous though. I want all of us to be together. But I'm letting that go right now, it's not doing me any good dwelling on it.
Bugs missed your post til just now... your right I don't know if WH feels torn or not. And God will handle it in his own way. I need to let go and let God.
Help e-mails from Wh Last night So I guess I have no input on the kids. We are still the kids parents and we should be having communication about how we are going to fill each other in on the kids and what you have packed for B. I asked what you had for suitcases cause if you are using them all then I'll find one on my own. All I have in the really small one.....
This am
Truly Di this isn't communication....This is you making decisions then informing me of them as they come and only if I ask. I do appreciate you packing for him. Of course I will have him call I know that you will want to talk to him. I will call her but it'll be difficult with all her games and she is not one to stay up till 10:30 when i will have time at the end of the day. You know how this trip goes, but as parents we do have to talk to each other to get the scoop of how the kids are doing, we can't expect the kids to give us all the information cause they are kids. Have a good day.
I hate this. I know block e-mails but there are still things that need to be communicated.
Again it's all my fault. Not this is because of his actions. I really don't know how much more I can take. I want my H back.
What I would like to e-mail back
M,
I don't know what decisions I'm making that you consider you need to be a part of. Is it how many pairs of boxers I should pack for DS?
And yes this is my choice right now how I need to communicate with you. Just like having an affair was YOUR choice. And both of us suffer from the concequences of those choices. The biggest losers in this mess is our children. And who do you think they respect more on thier choice?
You are a woman caught in the worst possible situation and are doing an incredible job of handling an impossible situation.
You did NOTHING wrong. YOU did not create this situation. WS did this when he chose to have the AFFAIR.
You are a WONDERFUL Mother! You are doing exactly what you know to be the BEST thing for your children,,,, you are Fighting to have your H back and to be a complete family!!
However, you also have to find the BEST way to protect YOURSELF and preserve what little love remains for H. It is YOUR right to choose how to interact with WS.
You are giving him the control by buying into his CR*P about the kids. HE LEFT them. Don't let him lay that guilt at your door,,,,, it's not yours to bear.
Still, this is NOT your guilt to own...please do NOT own what is not yours...
I say this only because I have been there and had to come to realize this through talking with my IC...
This guilt is a consequence of WH's actions...not yours...
Please entertain me this morning and list all the great things about you...you must list a mimimum of 20 items...
Bugs' right, if you continue to maintain that attitude you are giving your power away, don't you think that you have done that long enough...
While we're at it, how about a list of what WH has done to hurt you...it's okay to get pi$$ed off...let's see if we can use that anger for something constructive...
Personally, your butt needs some 2X4 today, and it's a good thing that you've got us b/c I refuse to let you do this to yourself...
I'm speaking from experience...I've been pi$$ed off a whole lot and the only way I have come this far is to use is to my advantage...it's called assertiveness!
YOU KNOW, that you are only hurting yourself but kicking yourself, owning what's not your's to own...why are you sabbotaging yourself think this, this morning? Are you trying to fillfull a self-fillfilling prophecy? What is this going to accomplish? Who exactly is this helping? Are you going to let this little boy have control over you even NOW?
You're at a point that you can START living a GREAT LIFE...positive attitude STILL! Scrw this young twit, there's no way that she's more of a woman than YOU! She'll get tired of him and then where will he be...miserable, laying in the POO that he created...
Let him deal with the consequences of his actions...I'm pi$$ed off for YOU this morning! By God, if you can't get pi$$ed off, I will! YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER AND IF I WAS THERE, I DON'T KNOW IF I WOULD BE ABLE TO MAINTAIN MY SELF-CONTROL.
Your choice, what's it going to be...positive ir negative today!
There is nothing wrong with still loving your H...the real one...problem is you are not dealing with that H, you have WH to deal with!
He)), I still love my H, but it's a proven fact that once an addiction gets to a certain point the brain actually changes structure...not matter the addiction...and that person CAN NOT go back to the person that they once were.
So, I can love my H, knowing that the person I'm dealing with today is not the same...I can cherish all the great moments that I had with my H, hold them close, because NOT everything was bad...
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it's just I hate how he makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong... and I believe him.
Okay, I've got a 2X12 for you on this one....HE makes...no sweetie...YOU allow him...STOP playing his games Still...this is abuse...this is brainwashing...please do not go there...
I've got tons of tough love for you this morning....
I am new here and at the moment my mind is so messed up that I can't even start to describe my situation. I really wanted to say though that I feel like my life "almost" mirrors yours, Strivin. And I am scared. I never had an A and my WH hasn't had a PA but he's on his 2nd (as far as I know) EA and it's killing me and our children, and him. I don't know what to do and I hope that you all can help me.
Mrs. Pain, please start a thread, so that we can help you. Tell us what's happening, fill us in, okay. If you post, you will get a plan, something tangible that you can follow without thinking so much...
Still, if you must reply, get that IRE up. Tell WH that he must formulate a way to communicate within the parameters that you have allowed. He made the choice to leave, and now he wants you to also make a schedule for HIS children. Tell him that you will write up a visistation and phone call schedule, he can then operate within those parameters. Also, remind him that you are not interested in opinions as they serve no purpose here. FIX IT!
Put up or shut up!
Don't you dare let this POS WH muddle you. You ARE doing the loving thing. You are carrying the load. Don't you give him the illusion that he has some control. You shift into high gear and give him what for, YOU HEAR ME STILL. I'm so angry for you.
Remember, you are not interested in his opinions, you only have interest in your Marriage and family. You are not interested in discussing any failures on EITHER ones part. YOu are not interested in ANY DISCUSSIONS. READ the [email]D@MNED[/email] LETTER! Don't you back down, not now!
hate this. I know block e-mails but there are still things that need to be communicated.
Again it's all my fault. Not this is because of his actions. I really don't know how much more I can take. I want my H back.
PLAN B is a PLAN to work towards RECOVERY OF YOUR MARRIAGE...
So as I have said before, try to do PLAN B...
PLAN B was the KEY to RECOVERY OF MY MARRIAGE...
I certainly EMPATHIZE with your PAIN, Still...
I NEVER got to the place of not loving my H..every single morning I woke up and reached for him...in wanting him back, I struggled to maintain PLAN B...
I blocked his calls and his attempts to see me and to reach me...
Plus, any contact with him INCREASED MY PAIN LEVEL..started my WITHDRAWAL from him again as this is doing for you....
My parents are now up and snuck back on computer to reply. I need all the 2x4. 2x12's today. I think it's just thinking about this time last year. My H did trip with DD last year to Disney for softball. And I think that's when the A was starting to get going. So this is just triggering me.
And like Mimi said any contact just brings me right back to the beginning. My own sort of withdrawel. And it sucks. It's going to be nice to get away from this for a week then he's gone tll Friday the 20th with DS. So my contact will be only with DS and none with WH. I hope.
This isn't my fault and I won't let him like I was doing thinking it was mine. I'm scared... that if I don't make nice I will lose him and our M. What I need to looka t is that is what is happening and I can wish all I want and I'm still losing. Got to prepare for the worst and wish for the best.
Let me see 20 things about me that's great <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I'll have to think about that plus the things that WH has done to me also.
I will post later this afternoon my thoughts on this.
Rin, Bugs, Silent, Mimi and Dev.... thanks for being there for me
Have been back from Florida for a couple of days now. The trip was fun. Had some hard moments traveling... missing how H used to help with all the complicated things. Really the first trip I have taken as soon to be divorced. Also missed him when it came time for rides and such... we use to have a lot of fun doing amusement parks. Plus the last time I was at disney was a family trip. How time changes things.
DD celebrated her 17th b-day in Florida while we had tornado warnings. I took her to Circ de Soleil for her b-day. It's what she really wanted. It was amazing. She is such a good girl. She has deep feelings for me and does little things to help me over the humps.
The only bug was I was suppose to arrive in Orlando 7:30 Wed. Never arrived till 4 am Thursday. Never fly into Chicargo. Trip home was alot less eventful.
Had practically no contact with WH. Just to TM him to have son call me. And those times are when I was brought down.
Waiting now for DS to arrive home from his trip with WH. I miss my baby. Although found out he likes a girl that has the same last name as HO. That was a major trigger.
Plan B status, trying to let go and let God...even if it's only for 30 minutes. Been having a tough time today with movies of them together. Also trying to tell myself that I still have hope... and remembering a line from serenty prayer about continuing to believe in what's right even when it seems hopeless. And right now it seems hopeless.
Do you not have caller I.d.? Make him leave a message atleast - that way u r not interacting with him
Did u tell him u want DS tonight and the weekend? You should have him. Period
If u did not stand up for yourself I am going to have to give you a big ol' smack. I don't want to do that your 2nd post back, but it sounds like u may need it!
Yes I do have caller ID, wasn't near it. Didn't expect him to call was actually expecting a call from a friend. Her H was WH roommate on this trip.
I will let him know I want DS at least until Tuesday. He can have him Tues, Weds, Thurs. May Have to face him on that one. No I'll just e-mail him in the morning. Will have to see him though when I go to meet the bus. Will just not look at him and not carry on any conversation.
Goddess attitude is hiding I guess tonight. Can't let that happen. Will primp a little before I go so he can see me looking good. And I have a little bit of color. Although my nose is peeling <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Still, work on ALWAYS looking to see who's calling. If you don't catch it in time, let it go to answering machine. There is no need to pick up the phone.
Hang in there, and work on letting go. It takes some time, and some recognition that the WS is a person that you never ever deal with. EVER. You will get there, but darkness serves it's purpose in this, and you will need to stick to it more. Use your commen sense mechanism. Don't rush to pick up that phone (even though I know those morsels look good, avoid them).
You can do this. If I can do it, you can. It's tough at first. I had two good, solid months of Plan B before WH came around this last time, and I'm settling back in again.
Like Mimi has expressed over the past few days (Lord I know she must be tired!) DARKNESS against the wayward; leave them in their own dark place, let them go to let them find their way. You cannot BRING them back, they must freely, on their own, fight the demons. Plan B shows them a taste of doing it all alone, no support whatsover from you; which they have always, and STILL, count on.
I did really well picking up DS, barely acknowledged WH. When I saw DS I gave him a big hug. And while I was hugging him WH came by and I didn't look at him... I felt it affected him. DS said look at dad's jacket (on the way home every signs thier jackets) and I just said oh and went back to talking to DS.
I've got to admit looking at pictures from his trip the one's with him and WH were hard to look at. I want to so badly talk to him about the trip, I had done it twice with the girls. And I know the parts he would of enjoyed. But that's sharing a H and W does. Not a BS with a WH. Maybe someday we can talk about his trip, but not while he's WH.
On my way to get DS I remember the day I came bacl with DD, it was my b-day and my H didn't even hug me when he saw me. Sad huh.
I do much better when there is no contact.... now back to darkness.
Got to wonder if he'll even acknowledge my b-day coming up. The last few haven't been the greatest.
Yesterday was a tough one for me... just thinking about alot of the confusion i had last year and how lost I felt. Never ever thought I would be where I am now.
Dealing with stupid little triggers... saw WH hug another chaperone (female) on the trip and felt very jealous when I picked up DS Thurs night. It's like betrayal again... this really doesn't make sense to me. Then it does because I would kill to be hugged again.
This morning I'm doing better... it's going to be a beautiful day and getting ready ti go to IC, really needit haven't been in a while. Going to get those thoughts out of my mind.
Tomorrow is going to be another first for me... my first birthday without my H. It reallt shouldn't be a big deal because it seems the last few years, since his first A he was going out of his way to make them miserable. He knows birthdays are a big thing for me. His and kids also.
I wish we could go out tonight for a birthday celebration goddess style also. Right now not sure I am up to it.
IC was pretty emotional.... haven't cried that hard for a long time. Right now I'm emotionally drained. Last year we left for Jamaica on my birthday me thinking it was a chance for us to reconnect. I told him all I wanted for my birthday was to make love. He couldn't even do that.
At IC she asked me if I thought he was having a difficult time also with all this firsts coming up also. I told her I hope so, I hope he isn't that cold that none of this means anything to him. I'm the last one he's going to show. Then I don't know he has everything and I feel like my life with him meant nothing. All I want for my birthday is my H and M back. A fantasy, just like when we want a pony when we are little.
She aslo asked me if I thought he was having second thoughts and was just afraid he has gone so far he can't turn back, I told her he knows I still love him and want to work to stop this D and have a better M.
Your H knows but the WS refuses to acknowledge it. Can you imagine how that could torment one's soul? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Knowing this is a key..... it is a tool you can use. Leave signs for your H (subtle ones <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ). He will see it. Expect those signs to anger the WS.
See there are ways to communicate with your H but it may anger the WS. The BS must learn t/b strong when this happens and have a happy RB plan to put things back in control. I call it giving back the WS their guilt. Reverse babble was an excellent tool for me in that regard.
Really hard weekend. LAst night cried on my GF and her H shoulder. My friends are great comfort.
DD pitched a great game yesterday. Although it was a ling game the score 32 to 5. In order for it to count they had to go 5 innings. WH was at game. Real pissy towards me cause he called and I woudn't take the call. When he saw me walking to the field he came over and said thanks for calling back. Just ignored him and enjoyed my DD game. But boy he looked good.
He did take the kids out to get me a birthday present last night... picked up DS while we were at friends for bbq. Just got my gift and it's beautiful. A picture frame that I can put several pictures in of my kids and me. After church picked up DS at firends and he was there helping them fix a door and it was H that told me Happy Birthday. I couldn't even look at him becuase I knew I would lose it.
Bugs I remember what you got for your birthday... will go check it out tinight on line or go tomorrow when kids are in school <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Going to go out to lunch with my kids to a place where you get to ride the saddle on your birthday. Haven't ridden anything in a long time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> (get my mind out of the gutter)
Eve.... today is a trigger day for you also. Just a thought maybe today would be a day to offer the olive branch again to WH? Let him know the door is still open. I bet I'm older than your H though <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Starting to feel better just getting it all out on line here. Will now enjoy this beautiful day with my kids.
I'm just glad today is almost over. It's been a pretty emotional day. Right now I'm just emotionally drained.
Went out to eat with DD and DS to a new place. Wasn't the greatest. DD was a little digusted that there were peanut shells all over the floor. I just laughed she can be a prima donna sometimes. We still had a really nice time.
Heard from DD in germany and my IL's that was really nice that IL remembered me.
Eve... I think just sending him B-day wishes would be a great idea, Let me know if you do.
Bugs that sounds like fun to shop for B.O.B>'s, that will be the only way for me to get anything.
Just went way out of plan B and had an argument with WH. DD hung up on him and of course it was my fault. Blah Blah Blah not standing behind him etc. I had it so I called him I'll take the 2X4's...
I hung up when he told me he hated coming home to me because I was a witch. So WH ruined my B-day this year. Yes I was stupid but just made me realise even more why I can't talk to him. All I did was try so hard to love him.... he told me he's at piece with his decisions. That he hasn't put HO before his kids. That he's not coming back. Just a lot of hurtful things.
And I'm angry at myself because I walked right into that. So this one was my fault. He just got me angry about tellling me I'm no parent.
How can he be at peace, he's destroying everything in his life that once meant something to him for a ho.
He told me I'm acting like a 4 year old and I should just get over the affair. How I had hurt him for the last 7 years... that he has been miserable for a long time. How I was a witch. I wasn't perfect.
I told him he has been emotinally abusive to me... he was incredulouis. And asked how. I told him having an A is the most emotionally abusive thing you can do to someone. Lying and making me feel like I was going crazy is emotionally abusive. There is no use talking to someone who is so fogged out. I really need to do some serious thinking. I think the best thing for me is to just let him go and destroy his life. He was screaming me.
What Iplan on doing is regiving him my letter with a note attached. I just need to get it through my head he doesn't want me or love me.
THAT is my point exactly. He is NOT a peace for the very reasons you mention.
He is accusing YOU of being the 4 year old, because HE is the one that is really acting that way.
He is PROJECTING his actions and bad behaviors onto you.
He can only do this if you let him. DON"T LET HIM!
Don't you see, he's trying VERY VERY hard to convince not only YOU, but HIMSELF that he is happy and at "peace". If it were true, would he be Yelling at you about it? Would he need to engage you at all?
You are right, it does no good for you to try to talk to him about any relationship issues at all right now.
Take a step back, gather your strength, take care of YOU.
Today I'm trying to gather my emotions back. I cried myself to sleep last night. He called twice after I hung up last night. Asking me to pick up the phone that he was sorry for what he said. Also left a message that he wants to sit down and talk to me when I'm ready to talk to him again.
Bugs....I'm feel like I am so done with this man but something keeps me hanging on. I need to figure out if it is fear or really love. Like I told him last night I loved him as best as he would let me... he just wouldn't let me.
In my head I know he is refelcting his feelings about himself on me. It just doesn't make it any easier to hear.
Talk with DD this morning and told her she doesn't have to talk to her father if she doesn't want to. He loves her but she need to be ready. She told me I know mom. Also talkd to DS about the going on of last night and told him his sister is very hurt by what dad is doing. That dad is s good man who is making alot of wrong choices and I hope he realises before he loses his sister forever. Alos told DS that I still love his dad very much but right now it really hurts me to much to talk to him. How mom really wants us to be a family again but that's not what daddy wants.
I wish he would see how this is damaging his children. I'm thinking about printing off articles about how kids are affected by infidelity and giving it to them. But I guess that just wont filter through his WS brain.
I think I may go back to bed and nap for a little while just tossed and turn all night.
I wish you had some great advice also. I guess I just have to come to terms with the fact that this is over.
I'll get back into plan B again. Regive him my letter. And start to work on getting things in my name. Didn't have time last week due to Orlando and working every day that I got back.
Need to keep myself busy today. And try not to think of him and all the things he said to me last night. I want to so badly tell him how much what he said hurt me and make him understand what he's doing does to someone. Maybe I'll write him a letter that I won't send and just out it away. Alonf with the B-day card I'll buy for him and not give him. And if and when he comes back I'll give it to him at the right moment.
Still, the fact that he calls and reams you about all YOU'VE done to hurt him and yada yada, blah blah, doesn't show someone who's SURE of anything he says to you. THEN he calls back and apologizes. NO WAY MAN.
Give him that letter, and this time go completely silent. Don't give in to your anger and call him, write down what you want to say, and leave it there, on paper or post here.
You could re-work the Plan B letter to state that when he decides to put his family first BEFORE HIM = his children, you, dogs, cats, partridges in a pear tree, DO NOT CALL, DO NOT WRITE. You want no contact whatsoever.
BTW, I've never heard people at peace blaming and scorning others. Why would they, if peace exists within them.
I am more at peace now than I have been for almost 4 years. I do lose my temper, due to exhaustion mostly, but I do not say mean things. Heck, at this point, I rarely even THINK mean things.
He is in utter turmoil and wants you to take it away, to be the bad guy. Don't you take that from him. He is WAYWARD, not real, he IS a falacy. You now KNOW this from all of the conversations that you allow. Cut this out. Stop looking at the past for now, unless it makes you smile. Focus on today, this minute, this hour. Start over again, working toward a 90% good day, then good week, then good month.
I will work on another short note to attach to original letter. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother.
Trying real hard to not dwell on the BS he threw at me last night. Just having a hard time getting over the witch part. Because I know it wasn't true. Just trying to figure where the he!! that came from.
Wondering if the man I love is even in there at all anymore. Do people change that drastically? Or have I been living with my eyes closed? I am so angry at what he implied about my parenting.... this coming from someone who all last summer basically was never around his kids. This from someone who when he did get home basically ignored everyone except the TV.
I feel like I have done everything I could to save this M. Can't do it alone. Like you said in your post it's in their court. (hard to give up that control of not trying to save this). I'm sad for him, sad that he can't see what he is losing. The biggest thing he's losing beside his kids is his integrety. (and someone who would love and forgive him for anything).
I don't want any contact with him ever again. Not unless it's to work on our M. I will miss him, I did like hanging out with him. I liked talking about our dreams for us and our kids. That's all I have left now. He's making memories with someone else now.
I agree with you that he isn't at peace. Just wish I could see what's going through his head. How can you be at peace destroying 2 families. But that's what he's telling me.
I wish I were at peace.
It's a gorgeous day here today... going to watch my DD play softball. At least I know WH won't be there. He's working and probably hasn't even looked at a schedule.
Something funny he left on answereing machine for DD last night, She didn't want us picking up the phone. He told her she was grounded <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
The last couple of day have been down... today has been okay. I was thinking do I really want this M. I was talking out loud to God on my way home... people driving must have thought I was crazy. Just telling God I'm putting thia in His hands.... I want my M but I also want to be loved and respected. Tearing up and asking for forgiveness for my wrong doings in my M. Thinking do i take off rings and begin to put myself out there? Or make him think there could be someone else. I know games no good.
Got home and had letter from Attorney... I don't know about you guys my heart drops every time I get one... is it a bill or a court date.
Now I took this as a sign from God... WH's attorney needed to fly to the west coast. Her mom isn't doing well and was asking for a little more time on witnesses and all that stuff. My attorney told her sorry about your Mom and take all the time you need... he's going to be away until like the second week of May. In his letter too me he stated I didn't think you would mind because i know you want to slow things down. I'm taking this as good news.
I need some advice here... I have been seriously considering getting more info on line about MOW. Has anyone ever done this before? Also trying to get courage up to call friend who previously let me know MOW was getting bored to see if she had heard anyhthing. I am so curious about when they are finding the time to be together. If they are still hot and heavy. Afraid that I will hear htey are and crash or hear that they aren't and get hopes up.
I still struggling with what to do.... I curious about information on her. Also trying to get the courage to call my friend that may know if A still going strong.
Today has been good... really busy at work that last couple of days. Coming home exhausted. I just want to get out of my fog. I feel like I'm in lala land most of the time and my brians are shot. Thankfully I have a great and understanding boss.
I'm beginning to accept my new life.... and I don't want the old one back. Reading Chris thread about the good memories he has of his M... thinking good memories seem so far away. I have been struggling with infidelity the last 5 1/2 years and I'm tired of it.
Still, if there is even one teensy part of you that wants your M, build on that. Jennifer said to me, and WH, that if there is ONE thing to hold onto that you can see as a reason to rebuild your M, then hold on. Start from there and build upon it.
Still, I'm where you are. Wanting to know how things are going in AffairLand. Is it all bliss over at the Sippy Cup Institute, or is reality beginning to set in?
I think you need to know what you would do with the information. If it's going to hurt you to find out that they're still hot and heavy (and they probably are, and it will probably hurt you), then you're probably better off not knowing. Stay in your Plan B and protect whatever resolve you have left.
What would you do differently if you find out they aren't together? Your best chance of recovery is if he decides on his own to come back, so you probably need to let him hit bottom. I don't think you will get anywhere trying to reason with him if he's still fogged.
My guess is that you are better off not knowing. Assume they are still together and continue your Plan B, knowing that there is still reason to hope.
My sistah Killer Bee, I care about you, so please don't take what I am about to say as a 2x4. I do not think you understand the spirit of Plan B. The spirit of Plan B is to detach You (BS) from hurtful, spiteful fog-speak of the WS and the blow-by-blow drama of the A. The spirit of Plan B is to protect the little bit of a candle of love that you still have burning for your WS when he continues to BLOW!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Over and over, as I read your posts, I hear about what HE is doing and what HE said and who HE is with and where HE is going and why HE is angry and when HE came home and how HE plans to hurt you. And I am grabbing you by the virtual shoulders and saying, "Snap out of it, girl!!!" You are just as addicted to your WH as he is to the OW and to YOU!! Yes, I know that your enquiring mind wants to know when he is with her and how much he is spending on her...but still--please sweetie--for your own good and the good of your M--you have got to decide to enter REAL PLAN B.
Real Plan B involves YOU not calling him OR ACCEPTING HIS CALLS. Real Plan B means that you begin to disentangle your daily life from his daily life and you begin to no longer care where he is, how long, or with who. Real Plan B means that you live YOUR life in a way that is peaceful and fulfilling and happy FOR YOU...and you give him to God and let him choose how to live his life. See...you are still enmeshed with him, like two vines tangling around each other. What his A has done is like putting poison on the soil that the two of you are growing in. Now...he can choose to stay in the poison soil if that's what he picks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> but you need to start to untwist the vine of your life from HIS drama-ridden A life, or you will also be choosing to live in the poison soil.
Still--do not send your Plan B letter again until you have an intermediary in place. If you would like, just for you, I volunteer to be your intermediary. I guarantee you, NONE of his abuse, belligerence and demands will get through to you, as I will be your shield. While I stand in the gap to protect you, you will have the chance to CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER, change your locks, and begin a life of peace--away from WH!! You will have the chance to learn what life without drama is like. The final decision is yours, but YOU HAVE TO WANT IT. I can not force you. Minute-by-minute...hour-by-hour...day-by-day...week-by-week you have to release your enmeshment with him and adamantly refuse to hear even gossip about him.
Soooo, dear sistah Killer Bee, what will you choose? The peace and healthy individuality of Plan B...or the continued drama, pain, and unhealthy enmeshment of "needing to know what he's up to"??? You need to DECIDE and then act accordingly with your whole heart!!!
As you can see not sleeping again... instead of a call from teh hospital it was a call from mother nature. What I had for dinner doesn't like me.
There is a big teeny reason to still want my M. I still love the father of my children. I'm just very tired of infidelity and what it has done to me over the last few years. If adversity makes a better person...I should be somewhere at the top of the mountain, just don't want to fall off the cliff.
Eve, Fell asleep right after I posted so I didn't call the friend will do it later today.
Rin.. I have the book and read about half... my brain just can't really focus for long. It's sad because I'm a reader. Maybe I'll try looking at it again. I do try to read the daily inspiration in Letting Go, it's really similar to One Day at A time. And that helped. I think with TVAR I was afraid it was me and really scared me.
SD, It stinks to be at this point because I'm really curious. I did go by her house tonight on my way home from work (was on auto pilot) and her H truck was there. This is how I want to deal with information and it may sound selfish...if they are still together well things haven't changed much. It'll hurt and I'll probably cry. If they are not together or things are going poorly I won't lie I would be very happy about that. I won't change anything in my plan...although I'll probablt have to really fight the urge to not call him. I'll come here for that. He does have to come back on his own. He needs to hit bottom...does he even have a bottom? It would give me some hope because she won't be meeting his needs anymore. That doesn't stop him from finding someone else though. I have thought about it alot and am still thinking about it.
Just p for my morning call from DS.. then back to trry yto sleep. Have an 8:15 eye appt....wht do I make these early appts <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Still- You're are getting some wonderful advice, I can only say that I think it would be wise for you to detach. The person that you are in love with is not the same person that you are dealing with today. I understand how hard it is to grieve that illusion.
May I suggest reading on crisis in your One Day At A Time book...
Your in my heart Still...let it go sweetie...Live and Let Live...do THIS for you...
I understand the feeling of wanting to know what's going on. But, as has been pointed out, to what purpose or good would it do?
I encourage you to go back a page to CJ's post to you. Lots of good stuff there,,,,leave you mind open to really give it good consideration. It seems like sound advice to me.
Easy to do?? Heck no!!! That's the rub, isn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
With all of the advice, encouragement, and knowledge we gain from this forum, putting all of it into ACTION, getting it all to really settle into our hearts & minds, well that is no quite so easy to accomplish.
Are you getting new glasses,,, contacts,,, Lasik???
May I suggest some funky, Goddess Sunglasses?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
How come it's so hard for us to detach, yet it seems like it takes no effort on thier part.
I wish I coud get it through my thick head that he is no longer there. And there are moments I even feel that way. But the insecurity and BS fogg just whips right in.
You are in my heart to Rin ... I think of you and your boys often and hope God is keeping you safe.
Going to read about in crisis.
For todays date the passage in Letting Go was on Letting go of the need to Control.
Here's a quote
The rewards from detachment are great: serenity; a deep sense of peace; the ability to give and recieve love in self enhancing, energizing ways; and the freedom to find real solutions to our problems. - Codependent No More
Just wanted to add the rest of the passage it is so fitting for me today and maybe it can help someone else today.
Letting go of our need to control can set us and others free. It can set our Higher Power free to send the best to us. If we weren't trying to control someone or something, what would we be doing differently? What would we do that we're not letting ourselves do now? Where would we go? What would we say? What decisions would we make? What would we ask for? What boundries would be set? When would we say yes or no? If we weren't trying to control whether a person liked us or his or her reactioon to us, what would we do differently? If we were'nt trying to control another persons behavoir, how would we think, feel, speak, and behave differently than we do now? What haven't we been letting ourselves do while hoping that self deniel would influence a particular situation or person? Are there some things we've been doing that we'd stop? How would we treat ourselves differently? Would we let ourselves enjoy life more and feel better right now? Would we stop feeling so bad? Would we treat ourselves better? If we weren't trying to control, what would we do differently? make a list, then do it.
You made me laugh. I must of missed CJ's post I'll go back and check it out.
No new glasses although I probably could get some. My eyesight has changed considerly... you wait after 45 everything seems to break down <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Going to try new contacts will get them in a few days. He did recommend something really new for asigmatism and multifocal contacts but would cost 4-500 a year. That's when I broke down and told hiim everything.
May go for some funky Goddes sun glasses.... later though as we are getting 3 days of rain. I was so hoping to help my daffodils (clear out the leaves covering them). But they came up and really bring it home that spring and life continue every day, minute and year.
Going shopping with DD (and maybe DS if he doesn;t try to wiggle out of it) Prom dress shopping....good thing I got paid yeasterday <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> Plus Penny's is having an awesome sale.
Missed you post completely last night and this morning. I'm glad Bugs mentioned it.
Right now I'm getting ready to run some errands before prom dress shopping.
I really like your analogy of entwined vines and the poison soil. I want to get out of the poison soil so I have a healthy life. And happy one. And as long as I care about what the infidels are doing I won't get there.
I will reread your post and really consider the intermediary part... or maybe just an e-mail because i feel you have so much insight into my situation. CJ....don't give up on me...I'm an old dog trying to learn new tricks.
I didn't read all of the posts today, but I do agree with what CJ has written.
Even if you found that your WH was no longer in his affair, the next question would be then why isn't he calling, why isn't he home. You will still have problems with the knowing.
Still, I have finally found a place of serinity, but it takes a decision on your part to stop the madness and detach. It's a decision, not a happenstance. I still ponder my H and where he is, but I don't know of WH, his actions, his choices. I only can speculate what that being is thinking, which is mostly good.
I'm learning to assume nothing, and trying to learn more quiet and patience. It's difficult dealing with the fallout with the children and the finances, and special occasions coming and going and etc. It adds to my frustration, but I get through faster and more calm. I still get sad, and will for some time, until there is some resolution. I'm attempting the hardest thing in my life right now. The negative of Plan B is it is TRUE LIMBO, sometimes for years. I am choosing to remain in Plan B in order to recover my family, my M.
I don't speculate what I will choose next month or next year. I don't know if my H will ever return, and I DO question if I will have the strength to continue to attempt recovery if he does; those are questions for when the time comes, not today...today, I'm still.
I think my LB is busted. I'm so tired of being hurt. I am not even sure I want to recover my M anymore. Actually I don't want to recover the M I had. And I was afraid that goes against all the principles of MB. I want a better M than the one I had the last 5 years. I am at the point I don't want someone who obviously doesn't want me. Does that make any sense?
I want someone who want to be with me, doesn't put work and everyone else ahead of me.
Your feelings are quite normal and you are NOT going against MB principals for feeling this way. I also reached a give up point but knew I had done my best. It was after I reached that point that the Xws decided to give it a real try.
Since I had entered a new phase of 'non-feeling' (see I now was the one who lost the love), the Xws had to work doubly hard to win me back. I can tell you that it is a scar I will carry for life and H knows it. It hurts him at times because I am not the same bubbly person who jumps in and does all for all..... and I learned I shouldn't do that because appreciation is not quality for those who are spoiled. It is a waste of my time and energy so I learn t/b selective on how I spend my time and energy.
If you need to talk, let me know... I got free minutes on the weekends. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Here's my e-mail: **edit** I can send you my phone#.
I'm around tonight, too. Kidless. I'll check in again...if you need a line tonight I'm available. I was thinking of going to mass tonight, too, but I'll go in the AM.
Just so you know...I feel like I've done a pretty good Plan B. The whole contact with MIL sort of threw me, but I have not seen or spoken or TMd or VMd or anything since March 3. I do feel like I've let him go in terms of not trying to control him.
BUT
I still feel emeshed. I keep wishing the old H would walk through the door. I still wish that none of this had ever happened, that I had done this or not done that or any number of ridiculous scenarios that COULD have happened and none of this would be true. It is such a waste of energy...I know.
I am as addicted as he is. I'm not letting him know that now, since I'm in Plan B (for real, now that I understand that my contact with MIL was un-doing my Plan B).
But I still think about it almost all the time that I am NOT busy doing something that requires all of my concentration or when I am with a group of people. I am doing those things much more, and seeking those opportunities...but IT is always there, like a cloud that follows me around. How hurt I am, how could he to this to me, to his boys, what is he thinking about how this will effect them, how betrayed I am, could I ever forgive him, how much responsibility I have now...
If you would like to email me, my addy is in my signature...but just in case you don't see it, it's [email]cindy_cj_wolfe@hotmail.com.[/email] I live on the West Coast, so it's 3 hours ahead of you; however, I am the consummate night owl and regularly stay up until 2am my time--so really you can write me any time.
Now...regarding disentangling, how about if I do a general post about that so that ALL of the Killer Bees (and those about to go into Plan B) can benefit from it? Look for a post!! "How to disentangle from all that enmeshment." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Still, that is where I am now, too. I guess I'm still focused on recovery of my M, so I want to be wanted by my H; no crumbs, all or nothing. I want to be wanted, not some secondary option.
I keep coming across movies and songs with this sentiment at the center. I WANT TO BE WANTED. That's healthy. That's where I used to be inside. I'm back again. I think it's a good sign, as it keeps my boundaries strong.
eav, you said it perfectly, that is EXACTLY how I feel right now and for some time now. My heart doesn't get it. Maybe, when all is said and done, that will be a good thing.
I think I finally had my aha moment. There is nothing more I would want than for my M to work out but I just realised I can't and won't do it alone. Silent it happened last night reading Lemons thread.... and I think you can realate to me here....my H is a serial cheater.
I don't think I want to put my self in a position anymore where I could be crushed again. I begn to think will I ever trust him again? What if he's 5 minutes late? I don't want to have a relationship like that any longer.
The thing that I think I would have the most trouble getting over... he didn't have sex with the first A but he had sex with this one. I don't know if I can get over that. I'm being honest here. I may be very old fashion and prudish but my H was my one and only. And I felt that was something that was always special/ And this isn't against anyone who had partners before (it just woekrd out that way for us). If I were to have a new relationship that would be different... I don't expect someone in thier 40's to have never had sex...but that would of been before me. not during me.
I had 2 glasses of wine so it may seem like I'm babbling. PS Orchid that why I'd like to tlak to you tomorrow because after a glass of wine I'll probablt tell you I love you.
Still, now you can focus on your boundaries. You don't have to drop the idea of recovery, but you do need to put boundaries in place for any and all relationships.
Also, you have to look at your preferences. My personal one right now is I want to be wanted. I don't want to be a choice, I want to be THE choice.
My WH has now had 2 PA's. I don't think, personally, that any type of A is worse than the other, especially if it causes the same net effect, loss of a spouse and family torn asunder. PA's leave more to the imagination, I agree.
as for the wine, I am having a glass of Chardonnay and eating, of all things, jelly beans. I dunno, I saw them and felt like having some...
That's a great a-ha moment to have. I agree...I'm totally with SL on this. It's all or nothing. If he can't come back ready to do the hard work, then it's not going to work.
I have my moments of feeling sorry for myself (okay, more than moments) but in my heart I know that I deserve no less. I really do know this...if it came right down to it, and WH walked up to my door and he wasn't completely ready to turn himself over to God, and to me, then I would have to close the door.
I've wondered if I would be strong enough to do it, and in my heart I know I would be. I have found out that I am a survivor...I can do WAAAAY more...I can withstand A LOT more...than I ever thought I could.
Meggy's prayer...please God bring Still, SL and eav's WHs to their knees. Mine, too, please and thank you. Amen.
The only way I would consider WH right now is he would have to come home very remorseful and ready to do the work. (on his knees)
Maybe it's just tonight but I think I'm ready for someone else. I'm ready to be loved like I deserve. And my WH wasn't up to the task. I won't be second, third or last. (wine talking)
I am just so tired of this man hurting me.... I don't think I could go thorugh this again with him. And I think I would always be wondering. And that's no way to have a good relationship.
It may also be that I wa talking last night to someone who knows H and me...we did Heritage tours and project gard together. He works for a local furniture place now and I saw him last night. He asked how H was...he didn't know. I told him. He said to me I would never put someone else before my girls. They are my priority... and it just hit me that I don't think H ever felt that way. At least he never behaved that way.
eav, I don't think it's possible, unless my real H showed up and attempted to kill me, nothing hurts more, NOTHING.
I'm not a churchgoing Christian, but I do believe in faith in a higher power, so princessmeggy's story rang in my mind when she spoke of prayers to God to Break HER WH.
I liken it to when I was in Basic Training; the Drill Sargeant's break you down to your bottom and then rebuild you. It was a spiritual experience for me, one that will never be forgotten. I have first hand knowledge that it can be done, and I have faith that MY life will get back on track. I HOPE that my H walks along with me again someday.
Still, your WH never behaved that way before partly because his behavior was allowed and partly because he was not in a place to recognize his faults, his destructive behavior. He may be someday, you never know what our hearts and souls can do to us and can teach us.
I understand why you would be finished. I do. Until you KNOW, do nothing...and go find some jellybeans...
It's a good feeling, isn't it? So good. I wish it would stay...but I get it more often now and it lasts longer. (ohhh, weird...do I sound like a WS???)
I mean that feeling of certainty...that I deserve better, that I can have better, that the unknown is exciting, not scary! That I'm smart, competent, beautiful, and loving.
Soak it up, still!! And enjoy those little ego boosts that you get when you are affirmed/validated by someone unexpectedly...(works for me, anyway)
That said...I agree with SL (the wise woman/Wise Counsel) that you do what you have to do until you KNOW to do otherwise.
Remember when you met your H? I KNEW. The light-bulb moment. Oh! THIS is what everyone says when they say "you'll know!" Because I sure thought I loved my boyfriend in HS, and that I loved my boyfriend in college...but until I met H, I didn't really KNOW.
I guess it will end the same way...KNOWING that I did ALL I could. I'm not done yet. I still need to work through the whole journey.
I better lay off the booze.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
You know I never took typing in high school... I bet you couldn't tell.
LilSis. Silent
I know tomorrow I may feel differently.... actually I'm sure during this week I'll be up and down. I just want o get out of the down stage...it's really bringing me down <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I just don't think I can do this on my own anymore.
You guys are beautiful.... I wish we all lived closer ao we could get together.
that is a great analogy Sis. I KNEW I was in love with my H and KNEW that I had never had the same attractiveness or connection with anyone else, ever before.
I will KNOW, as much as I can know, when it is time to make another Plan...
For the record, when you KNOW what you want, you can apply that to what you will accept of a WH wanting recovery. Realize that this person that you chose to marry and have children with WAS, generally, the right person for you, barring any abuse not contributed to being wayward or just selfish.
You can do it, still. See...if we can laugh and make a joke about typos and booze, then we are still ALIVE. We hug our kids, pick out prom dresses...we are ALIVE.
I know...up down up down up down. I've been prone to motion sickness my whole life. The first time I flew, I ralphed seven times, the first time all over my poor dad (I was 9). But I'm thinkin' there are more ups these days than there used to be....just thinkin'
If you're still up and reading, I did receive your email and will work on a reply. And I just wanted to re-iterate to all of you Killer Bees in Plan B that YOU decide when you are ready. Protect yourself and your heart, surround yourself with a support system (family, friends, co-workers, folks from church) and live your life detached from all the A drama. If you can get to that point, where your life is peaceful and you know you have done all you can do, then you will know when you are ready to do whatever you decide to do.
Some folks wait for a couple years in Plan B because mathematically the chances are that the A will have run it's course by then and they have peace waiting and have confidence that their WS has the ability to recover. Sometimes these folks reconcile their M and become an MB recovery success story.
Other folks get into Plan B--away from all the drama and abuse--and realize that they are no longer willing to live with crumbs and have learned how to have a better marriage and how to be a more mature, personally responsible person...and they are ready to move on and let go and recover as an individual. They learn and grow and mature and realize that there is something preventing their WS from ever returning--such as an untreated mental illness or addiction like alcoholism that they refuse to deal with. These folks too are a recovery success story because they recovered THEMSELVES.
BOTH instances are a recovery. In one instance the M is reconciled and the people recover, and in the other instance the M is no reconciled but the BS recovers.
I know I get the help I need here. I mean I can't make my M work alone (without a commitment from H) And for the last few years I have felt I was doing it all by myself. And then H would sabotage my efforts to give him reason why he hated me. He admiited this to me.
This is an up and down process... I wish I could just stop thinking about them. Didn't sleep well at all last night even took a sleeping pill at 1am and woke up at 5am.
CJ, thanks I wasn't sure you got the e-mail because at first it was bumped back to me.
I still would love my M to work out... I just donn't think WH has it in him to do teh hard work. Right now he is into instant gratification. And I think if I wait years I'll be closer to 50 (no offense to anyone who is 50 out there). I just think it makes it that much harder to start over.
What I'm going to try to do is move forward like it's over. Still hold out some hope, but not let that hope stop me from growing or moving forward without him.
Todays a rainy day... should of cleaned out my gardens yesterday instead of waiting for today. Oh well I have a few days off during the week.
Today I'll concentrate on housework amd bubble bath for later.
Tomorrow is WH Bday. Talked about it with IC and she thought I should just mention it once to the kids. WH did bring up that he brought the kids to buy me a bday pesent last week and what a good parent he is. (part of the reason I broke plan B)
I di mention it to DD and DS and DD bought a card for him from them and she's going to dinner with Wh tonight. The card I don't find appropriate it has a butt on it (she always refers to him as a buthead when she gets angry at him) Before he left the house I would never allow her to talk about her D that way. Right now I feel she has a right to her feelings. Both DD and DS laughed about the card.
I'm feeling guilty... thinking about offering to have DS go out with them for his Bday. Although DS is working on a school project. And WH may want this to be a special time between him and DD. They don't get much of that. Also DS will be with tomorrow on his BDay.
See this is something I always helped with. This is really hard for me not to do anything, believe it or not I don't want to hurt his feelings. Even after everything he's done to me.
DD sensed I wasn't doing great this am... she bought flowers. I have great kids.
I also dealt with WH's b-day two weeks ago. Like you, I used to bake a cake, do candles, the whole bit...WH didn't really care but I thought it was important to make that effort anyway, and demonstrate to the boys that b-days are important.
I'm sure RT made a fuss this year, and the boys had a gift...albeit unwrapped and still in the bag.
I am where you are today...mulling over everything, still all tangled up in it.
Maybe it's like a knot. You know how you work a knot...part of it gets untangled, other parts get more tangled, sometimes you have to re-tangle it to get it untangled....which you do, eventually, if you work hard enough.
I want to be dis-entangled because I want to be the best ME I can be...happy, smiling, self-assured. If H comes back, that would be wonderful, and I'd be in a stronger place to help both of us through the pain of recovery. If he doesn't come back, well, I'll be happy, smiling, and self-assured.
I also want to be dis-entangled because I HATE the drama of the A...even the THOUGHT of the drama of the A (which is all I have at this point as I am dark). I'm sick to death of thinking about it, about WH, about my future, the boys' future, feeling uncertain. If I am fully dis-entangled, I think that fear and uncertainty will lessen considerably.
That is my hope. I just have SUCH a hard time not thinking about it, when it's quiet, when I'm alone, when I'm in the shower or in the car or washing dishes. It just pops up like this unwanted dandelion.
Hang in there, Still. I think we'll get there, don't you?
You have said so eloquently what I try to say. I like the anology of the rope. and knot. That is exactly how I feel.
Yes LilSis I think about the A and infidels all the time... more times than not. And I'm glad you posted about your H Bday because I remember you mentioning that. I still feel a little guilty that they didn't buy him anything...or I didn't take them out to buy anything. One more reason for him to be angry at me. But wait I won't have to listen.
I'm sure it will be documented though and get thrown in my face sooner or later.
And I know all of us will make it somehow...we have each other.
Still, your kids are old enough to handle his b-day themselves. He would LOVE for you to feel guilty about not getting him a present. Dark Plan B, remember?
Quote
I just have SUCH a hard time not thinking about it, when it's quiet, when I'm alone, when I'm in the shower or in the car or washing dishes. It just pops up like this unwanted dandelion.
Trying to get to sleep, when you wake up at 5 am and can't get back to sleep. This is the bit about keeping yourself busy. The more things you have going on, the fewer chances there are for the weeds to pop up.
Yes my kids are old enough to handle it. And I know it hurt him that they didn't make a big deal of it.
Maybe this will wake him up, DD didn'r even say Happy Birthday to him today. Not sure if DS did. They know and that's all I can do. Maybe he will start to understand how much he has hurt DD.
It's taken everything I have not to call him or send an e-card. But I'm not.
I think about my H every day of the week. I miss him. I understand. He doens't exist. I let that go. I grieve the loss as if he is dead, so that I can live each day to the fullest. My H's birthday is Dec 26th. It was not as bad as I thought it was going to be, but rough, none the less.
The day passes and the sun comes up and we breath in and out and get goin' with the next day, and soon, this day is but a whisper of a memory, and with every passing day, you heal further and become happier.
Thanks.... it's now the next day and no longer my WH birthday. I still feel badly about not wishing him a HB.
Rin.... I know what you mean about calling them. It's just the sound of his voice and I'm done.
And actually I'm doing okay in the sense that today I was thinking I finally accept what is happening. I don't like it but I accept it. It's in God's hands and I'm taking it one day at a time.
I think I'm finally at acceptance. I'm letting go of things Ihave no control over. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.... my heart still twinges when I think of H. I still pray that I would love my M to be saved... but if God has other plans for me I'm ready.
Orchid...yes hopefully the hurt will wake up H from being WH. I hope it is before he loses everything. I feel sad I think more than guilt. I have come to realize I have nothing to feel guilty over. His actions are the source of his pain.
I let my children know all teh time that I love them. I always have. I never wnt them to question my love for them.
I have apoligised to both DD's about the last year. I was very short tmpered and swirling trying to find out what was happening. They both have accepted my apologies and now know why. Wh has yet to do that. But not my concern. It his job to save the relationship with his daughters not mine.
My kids have been my salvation... someday I hope I can pay them back for all they have given me.
I'm thinking about meeting again with my pastor... softball season is coming up. WH plays softball for our church in a church league. Last fall when I met with pastor he mentioned one of the consequences of WH actions would be not being able to play. I said no don't do that. Well I'm going to let him know that I've been thinkng about it and if that's what he want I think WH needs to really feel the consequences. Deep down I hope he's not allowed to play.
I guess tonight just having some triggers...at Mass they brought up SB season starting soon. It's funny how things like that pop in your head and wake you up in the middle of the night.
Wrap your arms around yourself and squeeze real tight - that is a big hug from me!
I decided that no matter what 'paperwork' comes along, it is only paper. It is NOT the reality of my M. My vows and commitment is before God and only He can say that it is 'over'.
I know how badly you are hurting and wish I could ease your pain
It is YOUR choice how to proceed. I encourage you to look out and take special care of yourself right now.
You are one VERY special lady. Do not forget that everyone here knows it, your kids know it and deep down inside where your H is, he know it too!
Am boarding the plane, but sending thoughts and prayers your way!
I'm back on the ground and just wanted to check on you.
It hurts because you care. Simple as that. It wouldn't hurt if you didn't.
No, you can't stop the divorce. So, what is your alternative? I had read previously that you felt you were getting close to letting go,,,,,,, despite the hurt you feel over this latest information, how can you get yourself back on track?
Have yourself a good cry. Let yourself hurt just for today.
Tomorrow morning, wake up and have a good talk with yourself in the mirror. Decide to do what you need to do FOR YOU. Make yourself, your life, your daughters your focus. You were getting there,,,get back on that track tomorrow. Remember the Goddess that dwells inside you!
Til then,,,, be sure to pamper yourself a little bit!
I really thought I was getting back on track.... I was letting go. It was the call from the attorneys office with dates at the end of the month for final hearings. My M could be over in 22 days.
I did have a good cry.... and slept awhile. Having lots of trouble sleeping again.
I did reach out to WH probably to early but I had to do it.
Just sent him an e-mail asking are you sure. This was his response.
It's not easy.....sometimes I think you think it is for me......it's not. Thought I'd be with you forever, this hurts me too.
Got you lawyers witness list in the mail yesterday.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
THen I sent him another heart felt e-mail
M,
I'm not even sure if you're going to answer that last e-mail I sent to you at work. I'm not even sure you'll answer this one.
I always thought I would be with you forever also....and I still want to be with you forever. Even after everything that has happened I still love you. i also really believe that we could work things out. It would be hard work, we would have to work through the hurt and pain we caused each other. It can be done. Many marriages have survived infidelity and I think we could also.
I probably shouldn't admit this to you, I'm having a real hard time detaching and letting go. I believe with all my heart we are making a big mistake. I can't believe that breaking up our family is the right thing to do. I don't know if I'll ever think it is. This last week has been really hard. It was so hard not having you with me on my birthday. I cried all night the night before and the night of my birthday. I cried on your birthday I wanted so badly to call you and wish you happy birthday. I hate going through all these firsts without you. First are suppose to be happy.
What I would really love to do is stop divorce proceedings and try to be together again. Maybe go out and try dating again. See if we can get back those feelings we had. Do the things we use to do when we were dating. Have fun together. Be silly and just be together... forget everything for awhile. What would it hurt ? Look what we could gain from that. At first it may be awkward but I'm sure we could get through it. Leave certain subjects off the table for awhile. Get to know each other again. I miss you. I miss sleeping next to you. I miss my husband.
I don't believe our love has died.... I really think that love we shared is still there and can grow to something we can't even imagine right now. We have so much to try for. We have so much to lose if we don't. I believe enough for both of us right now. What do we really have to lose if we try again?
I hope you will consider what I'm asking..... I love you M and I mean that. You have been my rock and I can be yours also if you let me. We still have time.....
Love, Di
PS. Attorneys do divorce.... I just want to do marriage.
I don't really expect an answer. Maybe one more thing to get me back on track and then again maybe not.
This is so ugly. I am so sorry that you got that call. Just one more blow, when you are just trying to keep your feet underneath you and stay off the ropes. You are doing very well...you are still standing. WH cannot defeat you, still. You are a beloved child of God, and always will be. Your kids adore you. And we here at MB think you are pretty special, too. WH is the ONLY one...just one person...who is too blind and too addicted to see the truth of that.
I know a little of how it feels...I just went out to the mailbox and lo and behold is an envelope from my attorney. I HATE those d*mn envelopes!!! I cringe every time I open my mailbox and get instantly nauseated when I see that stupid cream-colored envelope. This one was only a cc of a letter to an appraiser who needs to appraise the house for settlement, but you just never know...and honestly ANYTHING related to D really, really stinks.
Let yourself cry it out, and don't put any pressure on yourself for feeling one thing or another. Just feel what you need to feel, and remember that the rollercoaster always goes back up. Maybe later today, maybe tomorrow...but it WILL go back up...you can be sure of that.
Do all attorney's use cream colored envelopes? Mine does too. I haven't gone to get mail yet... probably also have something else from attorney. I also get that sick feeling in the gut every time.
Wondering what WH was talking about witness list? I don't know what he's talking about. Maybe that's in my mailbox.
I am going to let myself feel today... I have too. Today I feel very sad and want the whole world to just stop for a day or two. I don't want to think about cheating, MOW, divorce, what all this is doing to my kids.
Hmmm...no idea about witnesses... I haven't gotten there yet. Am I correct in understanding that WH's email referenced him getting your lawyer's witness list?
Who knows. Are you in a fault or no fault state? You'd think if the witnesses were either of you or the kids that WH would have mentioned that in particular.
Either way, you should be getting a cc of that letter in the mail, right? I always do... (d*amn cream colored envelope!)
Yes that was what he was referring to in his e-mail... witness list.
It's probably sitting in my mailbox. We are a fault state...I files irreconcilable differences because I was advised that filing adultry isn't look good upon the courts.
My fear is that the witnesses may be OW? I don't know. I had given names of the two OW that I knew of. Mabe it's the PI. Maybe I should just go get my mail.
Going to my DD softball game... I'll check the mail on my way out. Hope there isn't any d*mn cream colored envelopes.
Thanks for the hugs. It really helps. I'm just having alot of mixed feeling today. Didn't recieve an answer from WH don't really expect it. Although in the back of my mind I hope he does.
Don't you hate when people look at you like you're stupid because you still want to continue your marriage? I have someone tell me today that. Shame on you for the first A, shame on me if i allow it agiain. Or something to that effect.
Back to the dark. Tomorrow will be better, I just know it. God will get me through this... today was just a little blip on the screeen of life.
Don't you hate when people look at you like you're stupid because you still want to continue your marriage? I have someone tell me today that. Shame on you for the first A, shame on me if i allow it agiain. Or something to that effect
Oh, yes, I know those looks of disbelief! I see them all of the time. As has been talked about so many times on so many threads, until someone has been IN this situation, there is NO WAY they can/should say what they would do or Judge you for your choices.
Don't you DARE take on any SHAME or BLAME!! It is NOT WRONG to want your Marriage! YOU know that it will be a NEW marriage, based on MB principals and an entire new life in which you blend the good of the old with the GREAT of the new.
Sometimes I just laugh and tell people, "I know it doesn't make sense to you, but I am doing what I have to do for MYSELF. I am sure you can respect that". I then move on and Remember what I should or should not discuss with that person in the future. Pick your conversations carefully with certain people so that they do not bring you down.
Today is a new day. I had my cry this morning. Back to the dark trying not to worry about no response from my e-mail. I have a gut feeling that it did affect him, I've learned to trust my gut now.
It's funny the woman who said that to me yesterday has gone through this. She is now happily remarried. Her XH doesn't have much to do with thier DD's.
I do tell people IRL that it may not sound sane, but I know that my H is in thier somewhere. My good friends tell me I need to do what right for me. Although I know they hate to see me hurt.
I hope you realize that for the most part, when people IRL tell you to "move on and forget about him" what they are really saying is that they hate to see you hurt. Past behavior is not always a predictor of future behavior, but they know that he has hurt you and the marriage in the past and they hate to see that kind of pain continue.
Now, regarding the end of the month. May I suggest that you just consider it a "redtape technicality." What I mean is that whilst it may be dissolved on paper, what's on paper and what's really happening rarely match much at all. Next month can be "Still Month" and just take the time to get yourself together. From my point of view, you will need to be healthy and healed whether you two get back together or not, so for now, concentrating on getting emotionally healthy and healing from the hurt is a good thing no matter what.
I know people IRL don't want to see me hurt anymore. Many have seem the last 5 years. And I know that if things do work out between WH and myself they will be there for both of us. Although WH nay get a talking too.
I like the idea of a me month... I'll make this month me month. Reading Chrisners post on all he has accomplished and I look around and think what have I done. Tonight I"m making a list of things I need to get done around the house. Haven't had the energy to do it these last couple of weeks. All though I have been working on letting go.... not completely there yet.
Tried to get cable switched to my name... sheet I need WH permission then they charge me 33 dollars to type in my name. What a racket. I just said keep it in his name then. And walked out and cried.
Think this is how it's going to go with everything.
CJ, I like the red tape thing... I really can't see us getting anywhere near the point where a judge could decide. I'll find out more on Monday the attorney's will be talking to a judge.
CJ... when you thought you were done with XH did you continue to go back and forth with your feelings? One minute I'm why do I want someone who treated me badly these past few years. And then I remeber how it was before all this affair crap.
Still, I don't have much to add, except a huge hug (((((STILL)))))
I know that my friends and family hate to see me hurting, and are genuinely happy that I have detached from the chaos and stopped trying to control or help my WH see his way. They would really prefer to see me move on completely, but they understand that I am doing this for me as well as my son and H.
I don't know how you feel right now, but unless I file for the D, it will not be what I want at the time. Your letter states that you do M and the lawyers do D, and that you still want to recover. You have done all that you can. Take care of yourself, still.
Yeah, my feelings for my exH were all over the place too. Some days I still loved him and missed him...other days I was so mad, I would have shot him on site! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Over time I began to realize that it wasn't really HIM and how he behaved that I missed, but rather the illusion of what I thought I had. Back in those days I was fairly firmly in illusion-land. Rather than dealing with and accepting the truth of reality, which was that he was abusive and selfish, I kept seeing what I HOPED he would become or what I WISHED he was. Does that make any sense? And THAT was what I really missed...the illusion. It took me a long time of let go of illusions and wishing and embrace reality.
Soooooo...did ya clean up your planting area today?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Over time I began to realize that it wasn't really HIM and how he behaved that I missed, but rather the illusion of what I thought I had. Back in those days I was fairly firmly in illusion-land. Rather than dealing with and accepting the truth of reality, which was that he was abusive and selfish, I kept seeing what I HOPED he would become or what I WISHED he was. Does that make any sense? And THAT was what I really missed...the illusion. It took me a long time of let go of illusions and wishing and embrace reality.
CJ, I think you are a very wise lady. Let me once again express my gratitude for how you have taken the Killer Bees under your wing.
I think that's what I'm doing. Still hoping that it's not the illusion but the man I'm wishing for. He still makes my heart jump and tingle. Had to break plan B today. I needed transportation and no one else around to help. Believe me he was the last one I wanted to call. If I didn't call it would of meant several hours at the garage.
On the way for him to bring me home I told him I really didn't want to bother him and I wouldn't of called him unless it was absolutely neccesary. He said thanks that really makes me feel good. I asked if he opened and read my e-mail... he told me he read it a few times and was planning on responding. Asked me how worl was going and such. When I got out of the car I told him I meant every word I said. He told me I know you did.
Don't know what to make of it. I almost didn't want to come on and admit that I did that. I feel okay about it. He acted like a human being. Not the alien.
Yes I did get most of the planting area leaf free. But the d*mn wind kept blowing them back in. It's goign to take alot of work. Neglected them last year with everything going on. Will do more on Monday as I'm working the weekend.
sdguy,
Isn't she amazing. I read your thread today but didn't feel I had much to offer. I really do understand what you're going through. The only difference is my kids don't mention how they miss dad.
I read your thread today but didn't feel I had much to offer.
No worries. This is how I feel on a lot of threads. And it's how my IC sessions are--nine times out of ten I know what she's going to say and what I need to do.
I'll let someone else 2x4 you for slipping out of your Plan B. I'm not the right person to do it today.
I know I deserve 2 X 4's. I have wishful thinking about him reading the e-mail a couple of times.
Although I know I'll be crushed if it's not what I want to hear. So I'm preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.
I can't even read my own gut right now. It twisted in a knot.
Need to feed my DD we just got back from her ballgame... home made beef stew. One of her favorites...DS hates it. So I try to make it when he's with his D. (((sdguy))) Still
Had minimal contact with WH... DS hurt his pinky a week and half ago. This weekend with WH noticed it was still very swollen, Got a call at work that he was with DS in ER... heart sank. Then told me they were xraying hisfinger. Ends up he has a fracture. We both feel bad that we didn't have it looked at sooner but DS rarely complained.
Then just saw him at a fundraising dinner for DD softball team. Didn't talk to him. He looked good from what little I saw. But I made sure Iw as looking good also.
Me I worked all weekend and it was very slow so lots of time to think and dwell. Still hoping for the response I want to hear from my e-mail. And kind of figuring I'm not going to get one. Obviously it's not a priority.
Have the next couple of days off... lots of housework and yard work I need to attend to. Just feeling overwhelmed with having to do everything. Kids are busy with school and sports.
I know it's hard not to feel overwhelmed, but try to turn that into some major ENERGY. YOU can do anything you set your mind to.
If you can focus your mind and energy on just ONE thing in that overwhelming list,,,,even for an hour at a time, it will help to generate more energy.
I know every time I am able to put WH out of my mind and really focus on ANYTHING else, it helps. Especially when I accomplish something. With each accomplisment, I feel a little more energy, a little more power for myself.
That is what I use then as my reserves to move on to the next thing.
You can do it! Hope your weather is nice and you can get some fresh air & sunshine in your day today!
1. Take today "off" and just crawl into bed for a total down day. Cry when you feel like crying and give in to letting all of that emotion out of you with the PROMISE to yourself that tomorrow is your return to Empowered Still.
2. Be the Empowered Still today. Right now, force yourself to move out of the negative mode and get yourself moving in a positive way.
It's your choice, and either one is OK as long as you know you have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps soon.
The only thing that you can NOT do, is give in to that urge to call the WH. He's the WH and you are in Plan B!
He gets no fix from Still any more! He does not yet deserve one.
Hang in there. Be Srong. You can do this! I know you can. God knows you can, and he's there with His hand on you to help!
What i really want to do is crawl back into bed and cry some more. Haven't cried like this in a long time.
I finally showered and got dressed and need to run some errands. I'm pulling myself up by the bootstraps. Will have to wear goddess glassses because my eyes are all puffy.
And tongiht if I feel like it I will let myself fall apart after the kids are in bed. And promise myself that tomorrow is a new day.
Does this sound convincing to anyone? Really trying to convince myself.
I BELIEVE in you!! Maybe the Goddess glasses will help give you a boost!
You know, it's really ok to let yourself have a BIG cry every sometimes. I did yesterday, myself. In fact, I've done it several times recently and found that just getting it out helps. Holding it in builds up to some big time hurt and that is when I start to lose myself.
So, for today! Goddess glasses in place. Errands accomplished. Get thru the day, kids into bed.
Comfy PJ's on, most cozy blanket and pillows in place, kleenex at the ready. Go for it! Get some good sleep.
Tomorrow is a new day. A day of Empowerment for Still!
Got some things accomplished... watched my DD pitch a great game. Her dad didn't make it.
A friend called who is going through the same thing and we went to the park and she just let me cry to her. I just need to get these emotions out. She had a lot of insight and I was able to say what I truley felt and knew she would understand.
Like at times when I'm really lonely I think whats the matter with taking crumbs. Dumb things like that. Like I just want him to come home...regardless. Just stupid thoughts that I nned to get out of my head This mornig was really bad ... I cried that I just wanted to die....so tired of hurting. PLeading with God to bring my H back. Not very attractive only God saw my pain. WH has no idea about it.
Just having a hard time focusing today... my mind is all on this crap. I miss my H, I'm lonely.
I need my H and want to call him so badly... and tell him I need him. I'm so tired of doing this.
DON'T DO IT! You don't need him. Somewhere you fell off the wagon when you sent that email. Forget about that. If he hasn't already replied, then you don't want to hear what he has to say.
Dark Plan B. Remember how you were feeling better? How you felt stronger?
It will get better. There are ups and downs, but you're doing really well so far. Don't give up.
I'm so sorry I have been away from your thread. It sounds like this has been a bad weekend for you. Speaking with your WH, being in his presence has brought you back to wondering. I'm so sorry that he has not answered your email. I had many days and nights like that. It was almost as if WH was doing it on purpose, not responding quickly.
I can speculate now that he was trying to figure out WHAT to say, combined with trying to avoid the pain and guilt.
I urge you to attempt to quiet things down again. I know that you have had enough pain, but contact with him, his lost soul, causes more pain, because what you yearn for is not going to happen, NOT UNTIL HE BOTTOMS OUT--ALONE.
You really have been doing well. I know, inside, you feel like your scaffolding is crumbling right now. YOu just need some time to shore yourself up. Try to remind yourself of WHY you are doing Plan B. Try to SEE the sitch, not just LOOK at it. Your WH is down in a hole, digging away, you must leave him to do that and let go. TRULY LET GO.
If your car breaks down, unless life or death is involved, don't call him; it's a convenient excuse to contact him. Call a cab if you must. This sucks I know, I do. You sound particularly depressed right now. Have you been taking meds, have you checked in with the doc?
((((Still)))). I'm so sorry for the pain you feel right now.
Look Still, I completely understand how you are feeling...Lord knows I feel the same way sometimes...today has been a difficult day...
My plate is full...that's why I haven't been posting much to anyone...I mean how can you lift someone up when you're all wishy washy inside...
Sweetie, "I" feel your pain, I understand where you are coming from...but just like me you would not be happy accepting crumbs...
I agree with SDguy, Dark Plan B...today's one of those days where I'm having trouble focusing on me...on what I'm doing RIGHT now...I want to throw myself into where I should be...
I should be in the house, I should be this, I should be that...thing is "WE" are all right WHERE we need to be...
I really relate to where you are coming from...I feel that loneliness...thinking if I do this then we can get back together and we'll be happy...
Thing is that "our" expectation of something that probably won't happen...WHY?...because we are NOT in control of them...they are so charming and manipulating that we believe that they will do what they say they will...
But it's on the suface thay they agree...what kind of relationship is that...what kind of Marriage has that got us? A really bad one in my case, one in which our kids don't ask about their father, one in which they ask for their toys than him, one in which I was so miserable I was willing to do anything to make things better...
THAT MY DEAR is not a life...a life is laughing and playing with your S, sharing the work whether it's housework, yardwork, parenting, decisions on money, etc...trweating each other with mutaul respect...
A marriage is one where you both respect yourself enough not to treat the OP like [email]cr@p...[/email]
Grieving the illusion is okay...creating another fantasy world is not...and if you're not careful and if I'm not careful we will fall into that trap...
Getting stuck is not an option, Still...you deserve better...
Can you or do you have enough self-respect to continue your dark PLan B? As bad of a day as I have had I can say that I had enough self-respect not to call STBX and curse his tail under the tail...I earned myself the title of a "Classy Lady today."
As least in my book, becuase my STBX doesn't control how I react to him anymore...I can get upset, and not comtinue with my past behavior...I am breaking the cycle...I am not getting down to his level and playing on his field...
Your choice! Accept a day and end it with pride and class or be the person that your WH walked away from to begin with...
Because that's what happen...you and I gave away SO MUCH of ourselves and became the person that they wanted us to be and then they decided that they didn't like the person that they helped create...hence, the A...to repeat the process ALL over again...
Is it our fault? NO, we were trying to be the best wife and mother that we could at the time...we loved and loved with all of our heart...There's no crime in that...
THAT'S being all we could be...I can't regret who I became and you shouldn't either...we are caring individual...tender-hearted...
I see what my STBX doesn't see and it's a shame...we could have made a great team, if he would have made some better choices...I may not like those choices...but I can accept them...
So, right now, I'm in my cocoon, growing, changing, waiting to emmerge and spread my wings...show the world my brillant colors and coast on a gentle breeze...it's it time that we treat ourselves with the same compassion that we showed our STBX...
Instead of giving our love to people who don't appreciate it, let's give it to ourselves...
The past few days were really bad and I just let my emotions take me away. I know it had to do with the e-mail and seeing him Friday. Just reinforces that right now I can't see him. I just fall apart. In order to get stronger I need to stay away from him. It hurts because with all my heart I know if we both worked on it we could have a great marriage and relationship. At one time a long time ago we were a great team. Not sure when that started to fall apart.
Today I feel like I have a much clearer view of everything. It still hurts but I can't continue to dwell in the pain. I try to see the light at the end of the tunnel but it isn't there yet. Keep telling myself that it may just be right around the next corner.
Yesterday I prayed to God to help me let go and not keep taking it back from Him. And I think my WH is controling <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
I have to concentrate on healing. As CJ said regardless what happens I need to be strong. Recovery is harder than this... jeesh how will I handle that if I don't get stronger.
I just can't wait for the pain to go away... and I know it will (it did after the first A)
The sun is shining and I need to learn how to do the yard stuff WH used to do.... anyone know how to mow the lawn with a rider? Sad isn't it.
Rin, what a wonderful post . You really nailed it. You must let go of him Still. He will have to WANT you. Do not speak to him until such a time occurs, and you WILL know it. Your gut will work properly and you will KNOW.
I'm sure there are instructions for how to run a riding mower online. I could describe it to you, but it will take a long time, and it depends on what type of mower you have.
Still, you can do anything that you choose to and set your mind to. You are a strong woman.
You do sound better and I think are getting back on the right track.
A riding mower is not that difficult. Walk over to your closest neigbor and ASK for a few minutes of their time. Have them (he or she) come over and help you.
Do you remember the movie/play Annie Get Your Gun?
The Song - Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better?
That is your assignment for today. Mentally determine yourself that anything the WH used to do, YOU can do better!
Thanks on the info about riding lawn mower. Still to early to get it out. I will need to learn how to do it though. My lawn is still wet and full of sticks and such. Plan for today is to rake front and back lawn.
I'm going to borrow friends truck and bring lawn mower in to get a new battery. WH use to have to jump start it with truck and try to stay on seat so it wouldn't stall. To me that means it needs a new battery <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Or maybe I just can buy a new battery. Also need to check the other lawn mower to see if that still functioning.
I will feel good today about what I can accomplish without WH... thanks guys I like anything he can do I can do better.
Good Morning, thanks for the compliment...just what I've learned from my experience...LOL...MOF, I'll have to go back and read it again...
Still, there may even be instruction on the lawn mower itself...when i was having to cut the grass at my Sd's there was...
I also like Bugs suggestion! Hence, SL's for that matter!
LOL...you KNOW women are better at most things then guys, right? I'm serious...do you know that prisons would rather put women in their rifle towers because we're a better shot and pay better attention?
I'm not trying to say men are inferior...I'm talking facts!
I was always envious of the girls in training with me that were already accomplished with weaponry, and would fire their M16's with both eyes opened. I tried, but it takes a lot of practice to TRAIN yourself to do that.
Anyhoo, Still, you start practicing to fire with both eyes wide opened; you'll know that WS, through and through. You'll WANT to avoid him, because, eventually, he will just piss you off, replacing that pain that you usually feel.
Bugs had a good suggsetion; just ask a neighbor. Get your learn on, and then take over the mowing. I like to mow, personally, always have. I even worked on two of our mowers, changing oil, air filters, levelling the deck, fixing belts, blahbetyblah...it's really not that difficult, just takes a willingness to take that first step.
AHAHAH, LMAO...I'm in there with you SL...the lawnmower was my thing...changing the oil and stuff! Also, I'm not good with keeping my eyes open when I shot...the noise gets me...I need to practice more...
My Stepmom works in the tower at a prison...I'm so envious of her shotting ability...perfect score first time up! Gotta' p!ss you off!
I was just saying this pass Sat. that I need to go to the range and do a little practicing, just because!
Still, stick with us sweetie! heck, I may have to save some money and fly up there! LMAO
We'll have you wearing camo and looking fashionable in it after while! LMAO
With SL and Rin on your side, you couldn't have 2 better women watching your back!
To Still's WH,,,,,,,,,these gals get you in their sights, LOOK OUT!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
I've had limited shooting experience since I was a kid, but bet it wouldn't take much to get back into practice. Doubt I could handle an M16, though! You Girls ROCK!
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We'll have you wearing camo and looking fashionable in it after while! LMAO
Now THAT is a GREAT mental picture!! LMAO, too!!!
Under the right circumstances, I would say that Camo would DEFINATELY qualify as GODDESS wear!!
Okay guys guns are way beyond me right now.... afraid I might hurt someone (and not me)
You're talking to a woman that need help with a riding lawn mower.... don't put weapons in theese hands <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Guys I'm sticking with you all because right now this is the only place I feel comfy talking about trying to save M.
Rin anytime you want to come up you are more than welcome....now about the wearing camo !!!!!
LMAO...Funny, STBX's dad use to pick on him about my shottin'...use to tell STBX not to p!ss me off! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
My fav is my 9mm gloack...you can bet I'm going to fight for it in this D...that's going to piss STBX off! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
A girl's got to have some protection! WHAT? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Never had guns in my house growing up. Don't know much about them. But I do know if I had one when I found out about WH current A he may be missing an important componant of his body <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I may have to think about protection now that I may be alone for good.... my dog isn't too much into protection.
LMAO...get an alarm system! That's what I would like to do...i would rather not depend on a gun if someone is breaking into my house to be honest...have a safe room and lock yourself in it, make sure you have a phone present...
In a sitch like that odds are that it will be used against you! I don't remember if that was heard from some training that I had to do or if I read it somewhere! I think it was training!
Okay now I know I'm not suppose to care.... found out today that Wh went to church with DS this past Sunday. A friend told me he saw him at church and he recieved communion.
Now I'm looking at this 2 ways... he's doing it because Softball season is coming up. Or maybe he really is turning back to God.
The way I'm looking at it even if he is just doing it for softball God can still work his way into his heart during mass.
Please pray for my WH to be broken ala PM H and Sl H.
Yes my WH(H) plays softball, center field actually. I always loved to watch him play.
And when he was in HS he did sprain his ankle playing it was right around playoff time and he stilled played. I remember him telling me that his dad was so angry at him.
Please pray for my WH to be broken ala PM H and Sl H.
You got it Girl! He's on the list with every other WS out there, including mine.
When we first met, my WH broke his ankle, had to have surgery and pins put in it. So, while that one may be 'reinforced', I'm focusing my prayer on the other one!
Went to Mass this morning to pray for all of us and our WS. After Mass I spoke with our pastor and asked him to pray for Wh becuase I heard he was going back to church and our M. Father said softball will bring them in won't it. I told him I hope that wasn't the only reason WH was coming back to church. He told me he would pray for him and our M.
After went to DPW to have them come look at the culvert at the end of our driveway.... we have a speed bump that shouldn't be there. Now this is something WH always took care of.
Then I went to a local pool place to have them come open my pool and set up biweekly cleanings. This is not the place where we usually had work done from.
Now this may not sound like a lot but to me this is big. I just feel so good about it. Baby steps to independance,
Quick question... thinking about e-mailing WH about something DD said this morning. She has a softball game about an hour away today after school. She was talking to him this morning and when she got off the phone I asked if dad said he was going (if he was I was going to take special care and look like a goddess). She said no he's not going to go. It's not hockey so it's not important to him.
Now do I let him know he really should make an effort to be there... or just hope that he will. And let him deal with fallout from DD. It just hurt to see how DD said the thing about hockey.
That was the way I was leaning. I really hope he does go even if she won't admit it I know it would mean alot to her.
Isn't it funny though how Father remember the thing about softball. I never ended up talking to him. I figured God would make it work out somehow. Plus I knew that would make WH hate me. Maybe Father might take in a ball game and talk to WH. He mentioned that last year when I talked to him the first time.
Still, I'm with Bugs...comfort your daughter, but don't get in the middle. This is THEIR relationship and you cannot save her from it. I know it SUX, but you cannot change WH, he must change himself, see the error of his ways.
I'm so sorry that the children have to suffer from OUR mistakes. Still, you are doing a great job, getting things done with the pool, taking care of business. Your children can count on you.
I know I can't stop the pain my children have to go through with this, I wish I could. I wish WH could see the pain also. I wish he would just wake up.
I was just thinking he's been gone for 9 months now. Need to stop thinking about that.
Now on to do more things that need to get done....it's never ending when you have to do it by yourself.
Way to go on all of the stuff you have been working on. To quote Larry the Cable Guy "GIT R DUN!" and you are!!
Pat yourself on the back and remember with each item you accomplish, you gain more POWER and STRENGTH that you didn't realize before!
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I know I can't stop the pain my children have to go through with this, I wish I could. I wish WH could see the pain also. I wish he would just wake up.
Oh Sister, you are preaching to the choir. Here's the latest quote from my WH on that subject -
"I am not concerned on her well being on our situation she is strong and smart and her knowing that the two of us love her unconditionally is what she needs. "
SHE IS 6 years old!!! She needs a WHOLE lot more than unconditional love to get thru this. D is not a NORMAL part of life for kids!
Oy, Bugs, what a tool. Yeah, that six year old's got it all figured out; doesn't need stability or anything. Right ON! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
You know even when the kids are older they have a hard time grasping all of this.
DD drove home with me after the game (didn't want to take the bus...long story) So we talked on the way home about what's going on and such. I treid to tell her that her dad does love her. And she just kept saying no he doesn't. He hasn't come to very many of my soccer, swim meets or softabll games. He had told her he would be there this past Monday and never showed. He didn't show up today either. Makes me want to ring his neck.
We talked about the affair and how I would still like to work on my M. She was very angry about that. Mom HE LEFT US... HE DOESN''T CARE ABOUT US. He won't change and he will just hurt us again. She also told me don't let him think you are waiting for him like a doormat. Just get the D over with.
Now I'm thinking am I going to lose the respect of my DD's because I want to work on my M.
I told her I still love daddy... he was a good man he's just making really poor choices right now. And Daddy would have to come back very remorseful and ready and willing to do the hard work. People can change if they want to. She thinks I'm looney.
You are wrong to expect her to have your POV. You are the W and she is the daughter choosing to protect you.
Let her know you love her care and need to protect. Don't minimize it. Let her know that her candid opinions are being and will be given proper consideration. That her POV is important.
What you need t/d is NOT share your hopes vs hers. She is hurting for you. U R both on the same side. Don't estrange her.
Let her know that you appreciate her need to be swift. You though are weighing that with being complete. That your actions must be thought through carefully. It may end in a D or not. Right now you are still out weighing the options and her input is valuable.
That should suffice for now. In the meantime work on getting your mind and heart in sync. You can ask for her assistance on this also.
Btw, she knows her dad doesn't care like he should. Don't deny that. She trusts you. Do NOT betray that trust in defending the WS to his children.
I agree with Orchid on the vast majority of what she said. Your DD is a smart girl and is no longer a little child, and she can tell that her father is not behaving in the way that a loving father does (i.e., a loving father is truthful, does not leave, is dependable, etc.). Thus, it is not reasonable for her to SEE her father behaving in an immoral, unparental way and then have her mother tell her that what she SEES happening is not really happening!! Can you see how that would be confusing and painful to her??
What WOULD be reasonable is for her to express her pain/anger at being hurt by her father, to express her pain/anger at his choice to break up her family, to express her pain/anger at his lack of attendance at her games, to express her pain/anger at his lack of interest in HER and her life and what hurts her...and then to have her mother say, "DD, I hear you saying that the way your father treats you hurts you. I hear you saying that his choices make you angry and bring pain to you. And I even hear you saying that you are upset with the way that he has treated me!! And I wanted to tell you that what you're feeling is completely NORMAL and REASONABLE, because it is not right for a man to leave his children and expect them to not be hurt. It's not moral for a husband to leave his wife for another woman or for a dad to leave his child. What goes on between your dad and I is 'our' relationship and as you know you don't know everything about 'our' relationship anymore than I know everything about the relationship you and your dad have...cuz that's between you and him. But I can really understand what you're saying and I think you are very smart to discern these things on your own!!"
The reality is that love is a CHOICE and a BEHAVIOR, and right now your WH's choices and behaviors are not "loving" toward your DD...and she needs someone who will validate that what she sees happening is NOT RIGHT. For example, you might say, "I don't believe the way your dad is acting is typical of him, but yeah--right now he's not really acting very loving toward you is he? That must hurt you like HECK!" and then give her the opportunity to talk to someone! It doesn't always have to be this great, moral lesson you know. Sometimes a kid just needs to know that what they think/feel is "understandable"...and still, if he is lying to her and blowing her off and doesn't care about how he's hurting her, then IN REALITY right now he is not ACTING in a loving way!! So if she's angry/hurt about that, she has a right to be!!!
I suspect you are trying to "cover" for your WH's poor choices and "cover" for your DD so she doesn't feel as much pain...but the natural consequence of having a parent ignore you, blow you off, and lie to you is that you are HURT. The fact is that your WH is REALLY damaging his relationship with his DD, and it is not loving of you, dear still, to deny him the chance to experience the consequence of his choices!! If he were to experience her hurt and pain and anger--and realize that it is from HER and a direct result of how he has chosen to treat her--he might more quickly mend his ways and treat her better! But by standing in the way and "covering" for him and not calling his bad behavior exactly what it is, then your WH is denied the opportunity to experience what he needs to experience in order to grow.
So validate your DD, and step out of the way so your WH is allowed to experience her hurt and pain--so he can GROW. It is the natural consequence of his choices to be a bad dad--and he needs to experience it if he's going to choose it.
Thanks so much for replying. Just to let you know I didn't include all of our conversation. I do let her know that it is okay to be angry and hurt... yesterday maybe I was doing old habits and covering for her dad. I just wanted her to know that at one time he was a very loving man. And if he choses he can become that man again.
I don't expect her to have my POV on wanting her dad back, She has been crushed just like I have been. And I think it is affecting her more because at one time they had a very close relationship.
I guess I was just trying to explain my reason for wanting her dad back if he were to be remorseful.
He disappointed her again today. She had a game and he didn't show. She doesn't want me to say anything. What kills me is I remember him telling me how hurt he used to be when his dad didn't show up for his games. She says she doesn't care but I know she does.
Oh I just want to pound some sense into his fogged out brain.
...He disappointed her again today. She had a game and he didn't show. She doesn't want me to say anything. What kills me is I remember him telling me how hurt he used to be when his dad didn't show up for his games. She says she doesn't care but I know she does.
Oh I just want to pound some sense into his fogged out brain.
Still
Now this is what I would let him know. Remind him that his actions sure sound like what his dad did to him. Hm.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
You gave us your reasons for telling her (your daughter), you need to make sure she understands your reasons and not coming to a different conclusion due to misinformation. Remember also, she is still a child so she may not be able to digest the info in the same manner.
This is what I would e-mail him if it's okay to do
WH,
I just need to let you know that DD is very hurt and disappointed that you didn't come to any of her games this week. She was expecting you to be there on Monday. She was also upset that last week you came during the last 2 innings when she wasn't even playing.
I remember you telling me how hurt you were that your Dad didn't make any of your games... remember how that feels?
Well some may disagree but this communication is not about you or him, it is about your daughter. Is she part of your plan B items? For me plan B excluded communication on mail, money and child visitation (son was 6 at the time). On those subjects I did either VM or e-mail.
I would word your e-mail something like:
WH,
I just need to let you know that DD is very hurt and disappointed that you didn't come to any of her games this week. She was expecting you to be there on Monday. She was also upset that last week you came during the last 2 innings when she wasn't even playing.
I recall you saying me how hurt you were that your Dad didn't make any of your games... can you help her cope with that same kind of disappointment?
JMHO, but I feel that communication with him reagarding your DD would be enabling him...it is not your job to foster the relationship between him and your DD...
I understand that she is hurt and she has right to be; however, this is between her and him...
Sometimes you have to know when to stop putting the pillow under WH's butt so that he can fall in it!
I can see both sides of the issue and agree with both. Can he be that much in a fog that he can't even see this? Yes I guess he can becasue just thinking back on things he said to myoldest DD around Christmas time.
I know my WH and he will twist this around to make it my fault and be very defensive. He will point out that I should be explaining to her he has to work blah blah blah. Things that I would normally do for my H. The thing is she does see him (also in the past) getting out of work for hockey and his own sports.
I think I will see how she is doing in the morning and Saturday I ahve IC and discuss it there.
I just think he will see this as an attack and not how it is meant to be.
I remember Jennifer telling me that if the kids had something they wanted to say, I could help them write a letter to WW. Like you, I could argue this one either way.
I've decided that my WH needs to strep up to the plarte with his relationship with DD17.
The more I thought of it the more I realized that the person who he is today would just place the blame on me. I am already dealing with enough... this is his problem,
Plus the fact that DD17 doesn't want me to say anything to her dad.... right now my allegiance is with her, She knows I would move mountains for her and her siblings. I think she wants to see if WH moves his butt to the plate and puts her first. She knows she can talk to me anytime about anything, She also knows i love her dad and I want our family whole.... but not with the way he is behaving now.
What is sad is that WH is almost to the point of losing this lovable young lady, all for a wh*re. When i got home tonight... mom don't look in the fridge or here because I'm working on your mothers day present. I wouldn't hurt this child for anything in the world.
I'm still commited to working on this if WH is willing to step up to the plate. If it doesn't happen all I know is I lost someone who lies adn cheats and shows no remorse. He loses a wife who would forgive and is willing to work hard on her M. He loses the respect og his children. He gets a woman who has cheated on 2 husbands. Who is the real loser.
I've decided that my WH needs to strep up to the plarte with his relationship with DD17.
The more I thought of it the more I realized that the person who he is today would just place the blame on me. I am already dealing with enough... this is his problem,
Doesn't this sound stronger to you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I'll state the obvious (to all of US I'm sure), there are those strong days, and then there are those yucky days. EVER SO SLOWLY, waaaaay too slowly, there are more strong days than yucky days, and fewer yucky moments in the midst of the strong days.
You posted that on a strong day! Remember when there were NO strong days???
I'm to a point now where the yucky days are the exception, not the rule. They are still there, but the scale is tipping. Every strong day is one more weight added to the RECOVERED side of that scale.
Happy Mother's Day to you Still. You sound much more grounded now. You sound like you are beginning to get that you cannot control your WH, not even for your children. However, you do what is best for them and reassure them that they can come to you.
Yes I guess I am stronger. At least last night and today.
Alot of things are way out of my control. Mistakenly drove by MOW house and it looks like a wedding party was at her house. Bride outside and bridemaids. Now I'm thinking the WH is probably going to a wedding today. Got to wonder if he'll think of our wedding day or be dreaming of his wedding to her someday.
Not going to let that occupy my mind too much today. had a great session with IC. Got to discuss how at times I feel I may have caused my WH to be the way he is. And also how I wish I could help him , but know I can't. I am coming to grips with many things I have done wrong in my M. I look back and feel really ashamed of some of the things I did. It's in the past and I can learn not to act that way anymore. I think I have matured and grown through all of this. IC also says that to just be there for DD and encourage her to express herself to her dad. And when she says it won't change anything let her know it may not but it will help her getting it off her chest.
I still have hope and pray that my wish of WH coming home ready to work on our M. I will not let that stop me from continuing to grow and heal.
LilSis... I'm hoping that the yucky days get fewer and fewer also. And I do think no contact is helping.
I have a confession to make. I wake up every morning and think of WH. I hate that. He is the first thing that pops into my mind when I roll over and hit the alarm.
It occurred to me yesterday morning (in the shower and chastising myself for thinking of this man who thinks nothing of me) that this is my own withdrawal. If it is this difficult for me to untangle my heart, untangling the heart of a FWS must be brutal. And the WH has to CHOOSE this. I have had no choice in the matter; the choice was made for me.
And I wonder when my withdrawal began (start of Plan B?), or if I really am in withdrawal if I think of him all the time.
Grrrr....frustated with myself.
But I wonder, can you relate to this at all? or you, SL? I'd post in on our Killer Bee thread, but it would be a downer....
Thanks, guys. And happy Saturday. It is beautiful here; just waiting for the grass to dry enough to mow. Once a week isn't enough, but I can't fit it in with my schedule.
I can totally related-even now that he has his D. You can't expect to stop caring for your WH when you made a covenant that was forever. And not having had a choice in the disruption of our M makes it even harder.
Something my IC said that made sense was that I may always have pain for my X because I do love him. That doesn't just shut off. And maybe all I can do is be still in the pain and know that God is God. Let God work in that pain, in that stillness. So I did. And guess what, there has been release of my spiritual bond with my XH. I can't really explain it, but I know that it's real.
I still think of him, I am still so sad over his choices and the consequences in our lives. I still miss the R I had with him, but I am choosing to put him and the OW into God's very capable hands.
So I capture those thoughts and lay them at Jesus feet and I pray for him. It's a discipline right now, kind of like getting exercise. But I hope it will soon become a habit.
LilSIs... He's my first thought in the morning. My last thought at night and very frequent thoughts during the day.
I still think of him more often then not. It is a withdrawel from them. And I agree with both you and Johnstwin that it a withdrawel we didn't choose to happen.
It's also abeautiful day here.... going to meet DD for linch. DS is crashed and I think will sleep all day today. Last night was a ballgame and overnight at the JH, needless to say they got no sleep at all.
I thought the same thing to myself yesterday AM, Johnstwin...that it is much about discipline. My "first thing in the morning" thoughts have become a bad habit...one that needs to be changed.
Let the thought happen, but immediately follow it with a prayer or a "giving it over" to God. Develop in myself a new pattern, one that allows me to stop the thought (about a situation over which I have no control), and do something productive with it...like saying a specific prayer for WH...and with the Amen, consciously turn my thoughts away from him and towards ME and the boys and our lives.
Well...thanks for letting me know (for like the 1000th time) that I am not the only one... fortunately for me, unfortunately for you, because I wouldn't wish this on anyone...
Well, throw me in the lot with thinking about STBX...LMAO
I actually feel so sorry for him, the choices he's made, he's got to be lonely in that house at night by himself, no laugher, no fun, etc...
Meanwhile, I'm laughing and playing with the kids, it's never quite, well, except in the dead of night! I think about how angry he is which is evident from the comments that I'm hearing! Projection!...
"You enjoy being a sexaul deviant!" meaning "he enjoys being one!"
You know he would say that his femine side was lesbain and here he is calling me one! Funny, huh?
Still, there was something that I wanted to 2x4 you for....hold still! LMAO
Ready?
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Mistakenly drove by MOW house and it looks like a wedding party was at her house. Bride outside and bridemaids. Now I'm thinking the WH is probably going to a wedding today. Got to wonder if he'll think of our wedding day or be dreaming of his wedding to her someday.
LMAO...not for the drive-by! Who cares what he's doign? (I know you do!) But he IS NONE of your business...play in your own sandbox...
I have to remind myself sometimes, I have to 2X4 myself and remind myself that what's he's doing IS none of my business...
I guess that would be a lesson we all need to practice more...being that we think about them...
Perhaps if we can envision putting our WH in our cupped hands and actually giving them over to God, that would help!
I know for me, if I focus on that then I'm only hurting myself...I'll get angry and it SURE it's doing anything to HIM!
Whacking session over with wood! Pardon the interruption!
Back to being happy! Happy MOM'S day to you too! All of you great and wonderful moms! I'm so proud of your decision with DD, Still...
You're stronger my the day whether YOU see it or not! Great Plan Bing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Okay 2X4 taken. Boy I have a headache. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I know I shouldn't think what he is doing.... it is so hard. I think the wedding thing was a little trigger. He's having the time of his life and here I am dealing with outside work and indoor work.
You know what I wouldn't change places with him for a million dollars. I know I couldn't live with myself doing what he's doing.
I like the picturing him in my cupped hands and offering him to God. I think I'll do that whenever I think of him.
Had a message on my answering machine from my attorney... will return call on Monday. Also seeing my pastor on Monday. Bringing him coffee,
You can also picture WH in your cupped hands,,and when you can't bring yourself to hand him over to God, then imagine yourself smacking your hands together really HARD and squashing him!! He!he! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Had the best Mothers day one could have without my DD19 who is in Germany and without my H.
Started the day out going to Church with my kids then for breakfast. Wh was at the place we went for breakfast so that kids could sign his moms card. Didn't look at him. But I was dressed very nice and it was a good hair day. DD came in and said dad TM about not giving at church because he had already. Didn't get it when I checked it he also wished me Happy Mothers Day.
Hung out with DD, DS and DD boyfriend. Picked up dogpoo and DS mowed backyard for me. We are getting there, then kids took me to dinner and DD and DS had made memory boxes (DD did actual work) with pictures of them and family vacation pictures. I twas amazing. DD's BF also brought me a yellow rose.
Checked e-mail this morning one from WH from last night. He had e-mailed me Sat morning about propane for the pool and he had something to discuss. Ie-mailed him back what about it. his answer "This is cold....do you really want to do this by e-mail" Just sent back "yes"
Now just working up the courage to call Attorney and see what he wanted. Was hoping that I would of had an answer to last e-mail I sent but it really doesn't surprise me I haven't ever been a priority in his life.
Just got off phone with attorney. Just about his bill and such.
Hasn't recieved anything from his attorney that was requested. In the brief exchages he has had with WH attorney he is moving forward with the D. So he told me I need to reconcile this and also move forward.
We will not have a date this month. I still told attorney that I am in no rush. So right now it looks like June.
Found out the witness list is just myself, him and appraisor.
He asked me if WH and I were still separated? I told him yes we were and that he was still seeing a married woman who he is her boss. He was surprised as he hadn't really heard anything from me in a while just to pray for WH and that he was going back to chuch.
He then said that WH may have been dishonest about our situation when he taked with the priest that is in charge of SB. Because he said when the SB team rooseter came up he mentioned to Father that WH was separated last he heard. I told him it wouldn't urprise me if he left out those facts. He then told me then we can't have him repersenting our church.
We talked alot about M and commitment. How we can't change another person. I told him I'm praying for WH and our M. He told me to also prayer for a clear vision of what God wants. How this simetimes gets all mixed up with what we desparately want God to do.
He also told me not to give up hope because we never know what God has in store for us. Also mentioned about how letting someone go because if they come back there love is ours if they don't come back it never was. This I have a hard time coming to terms with... as I know our M was real.
We talked about how it doesn't seem WH ever put the commitment into working on our M before getting involved with another person. And after he was involved he is too wrapped up in his feelings to see anythhing else.
He asked me what I was afraid of. I told him to be alone. And why. I told him I want and need someone to love me. He said I do have people love that love me. I told him my WH left me for another woman. He asked me if that made me feel unlovable. I said yes it does. He said WH leaving is no reflection on my being lovable or unlovable. It is a reflection on himself as a person.
I told him that I'm only communicating with WH through e-mail. And how WH doesn't like it. He thinks it's cold. He offered to be a safe person to be with us and we should talk. Not about D proceddings or bills. We should talk about what happen and explain to each other our feelings. He told me I don't need to explaian to him why I need a safe person. (I do because I will fall apart if it's just me and him and probably LB) I told him I'm open to this.
He also said if WH refusing to talk without a third party present he will talk to the other priest about his actions. This way it doesn't look like me trying to amnipulate the situation. So it looks like either way WH will not be playing SB for our church.
So I'm going to pray on this and formulate an e-mail to offer this.
Pastor also told me I can't be a doormat for this man. That in order for reconciliation I must have boundries. I told him MOW would have to be out of the picture comopletely and MC.
So he told me I need to reconcile this and also move forward.
Man, that really chaps my hiney. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> Of course he says that! The attorneys (both his and yours) have no vested interested in seeing this divorce halted. To them, it's just another day, another dollar. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
You stick to your guns. He works for you. Tell him HE needs to reconcile to the fact that you DO NOT WANT this divorce and that he needs to DELAY this as much as legally possible, if that what's YOU want.
He knows I want this delayed... and he's doing it as much as possible. He's not ppushing for things that have been requested a while back. But you're right he has nothing emotionally vested in this at all. But he knows how I feel and the way I'm taking it as be prepared if this doesn't happen.
He asked me what I was afraid of. I told him to be alone.
I do believe this is the most significant reason I didn't end my marriage. I wonder, if I was 20 years younger, if my decision might have been different.
It would be interesting to see the statistics on that. I sure hope the best for you in all of this. The situation makes me feel sad.
I do think some of it has to do with my age. Statisitcly (sp?) it's harder for divorced woman to find someone then it is for a divorced man. At least that is what I've read. I also see that in my community of the divorced woman.
He then told me then we can't have him representing our church.
Yay for him! He is absolutely correct about this.
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He told me to also prayer for a clear vision of what God wants. How this simetimes gets all mixed up with what we desparately want God to do.
I agree, except as far as I know God hates divorce, but has allowed it under circumstances of adultery.
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He also told me not to give up hope because we never know what God has in store for us.
Agree. Sometimes we DO get in the way of allowing God to work. I know I did.
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Also mentioned about how letting someone go because if they come back there love is ours if they don't come back it never was. This I have a hard time coming to terms with... as I know our M was real.
Disagree. Isn’t this just a platitude? Maybe this applies in a dating situation, but I don’t think it applies to a marriage. Even Plan B isn’t letting go of your marriage, it’s preserving the love you have left for your spouse by taking yourself out of the equation.
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I told him my WH left me for another woman. He asked me if that made me feel unlovable. I said yes it does. He said WH leaving is no reflection on my being lovable or unlovable. It is a reflection on himself as a person.
This is true, but you already knew that.
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He offered to be a safe person to be with us and we should talk. Not about D proceddings or bills.
Does he endorse MB? Maybe you should tell him more about it so he’ll get where you’re coming from. I’m all for counseling but I’d make sure it’s with someone who shares your beliefs completely… and it sounds like he does.
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Pastor also told me I can't be a doormat for this man. That in order for reconciliation I must have boundries. I told him MOW would have to be out of the picture comopletely and MC.
Absolutely. As some of the MB pros will tell you, Plan A isn’t being a doormat. Someone described it more like a welcoming mat.
When we talked about M and how some of my friends are claiming that I'm not married anymore. He told me in the eyes of God you're married until death. That is not the case in the legal sense.
It's nice to see he's not wishy washy about this. WH is going to think all of this is my fault.... hey I'm starting to get used to be his excuse for all his wrong doings. I'll just do what I have done in the past... I'm sorry you feel that way. Sometimes we need to look within ourselves to find answers to why things happen.
Also saw MOW today drove right by her. If she wasn't wearing sunglasses our eyes probably would of met. Evil evil woman.
Thanks for checking in.... yes talking to my priest helped. I did send an e-mail as follows
M,
I understand you feel communicating via e-mail is cold, the last phone conversation we had you said that we could talk when I felt ready. I feel ready to talk, although I would feel safer if we did it with a third party present. I feel this would help control any escalations of feelings and prevent us from saying things we may be sorry for after.
We could do this with a councilor or someone in the parish. If we go the parish route it would not cost anything. This would have nothing to do with legal proceedings that are pending. This is more for personal recovery.
D.
His response D,
When have I ever given you the feeling of being unsafe. And I'm not angry, just hurt. Everything has been said to be sorry about and wouldn't be of great surprise anymore right? Sometimes....I wish I knew why you say things you do at times.
me
So my take it means no. I'll let our pastor know and let the chips fall where they lie.
He doesn't respect any of my requests... he continues to call pretending it has something to do with the kids.
I am so readyfor plan FU rught now. I know I will calm down some.
I shouldn't of e-mailed him that, I was taking my pastors advice.
Bugs... this seems so senseless compared to what you have been through the last couple of days.
I think your WH is just trying to set up the typical scenario so he can be "in control" again. If you speak to him via email, you have proof of what he has or has not said. If you speak to him with a third party present, you have a witness of what was or was not said. But if he can get you alone...then he can say anything he wants--provoke you in any way he wants--etc. so that he can manipulate the situation and get you all upset and freaked out...and thhen say, "See how crazy she is? That's why I need out of this M." It's just a tactic so he can have Power Over you. Furthermore, he can blame...avoid personal responsibility..etc. if he meets with you alone, but if someone else is present such as your priest--then he'd be accountable for his decisions and he can't have that!!!
Don't stress, sweetie. He has two choices: communicate via email or with a third party present. He is free to choose either one. What he's NOT free to do is to get you alone so he can manipulate you, and THAT'S what he's not happy about. Now you get right back on your Dark Plan B horse (see sdguy's thread) and you ride into the sunset.
Can't wait for things to get a little easier. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
It seems so long since I didn't have a care in the world.... and the infidels can go on thier merry way.
DD told me tonight momma it is so much more peaceful and loving here now. Except when we're pmsing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
It has been my experience that there are three kinds of WS's: 1) those who see their way out of the fog right away and are repentant and help their BS's heal; 2) those whose A's die and don't see their way out of the fog right away, but with a patient BS, begin to see their way out and then are consumed by guilt about how they acted; and 3) those who just go deeper and deeper and deeper into the fog until finally they believe their fog.
I am not a psychiatrist, but I suspect for most of those WS's in class 3, that there is some kind of personality disorder or mental illness involved. My point being that sometimes there is no way to predict at 20-something that a person is going to enter a MLC at age 40-something and have a complete breakdown of their personality until it is diagnosable mental illness...ya know?
Frankly, after hangin' out here at MB for seven years, the WS's that I've seen in class 3 are the ones who were abusive, self-centered,or very prideful to begin with...and often it is just virtually IMPOSSIBLE for them to admit, to themselves or to someone else, that they made a mistake. Thus, due to their stubborn refusal to stop the sin that they KNOW is wrong, they stiffen their necks, get into it deeper, and somehow start to believe their own lies.
Now, you can not control which kind of WS your WH is going to be...but you CAN control yourself and the environment your kids are in. So while your WH is away, I have a suggestion for something for you to DO!! (You like to DO, right? You're a little DO-er like LilSis, right?) I suggest that you and your kids have a ceremony that dedicates your HOME to peace, to love, and to serving God. As long as you (and your kids) stay on THAT path (peace, love, serving God) then you will be doing the right thing no matter what WH chooses to do. Dedicate your home to be a place of peaceful sanctuary. Dedicate your home to loving acts. And dedicate your home to serving God in whatever way HE wills.
You have a way with words. As I reading about the 3 types of WS
I know WH isn't the first type...he wasn't like that after the first affair.
I would like to believe that maybe he could be the 2nd type. Actually I pray to God that he becomes that type ( this is in God's Hands)
My heart sinks because I think he may be the third type. He is very prideful and self centered. Doesn't really ever apoligise. He wasn't always like that though.
And I'm glad you mentioned about hard to know who would have a MLC when we are in our 20's. Because at times I wonder about that. Could I have been that wrong?
We are beginning to make this our home... there is so much peace and love here. I wish at times WH could see what life could be like if he stuck it out. And we will continue to honor God with the love we have to share between us and our friends and family. We may not have the cleanest house around but we love and laugh. Thank-you for reminding me for the things I have to be so thankful to God for.
Being a WS in category 3, is no guarantee they are hopeless. All the more reason NOT to categorize the Ws. Too many variables involved.
Still a well equipped BS who gives it their best will know when to move forward when they (the BS) is ready. If their WS is still a WS at the time, then plan B to D is in order. If there is a shift of uncertainty, often plan B is executed.
I hope your right. I'm getting out of God's way so God can do his work on WH.
Tonight was my DS final concert at JH. WH must of arrived ther before I did. At least he made this one, I'm happy for my son. I walked in and could tell he was looking fo me. He was kind of shocked that I didn't go sit with him. I think some things are beginning to sink in.
At the end of the concert I didn't go see him and he didn't come see me. Good. I can tell people were wondering.
Fear turned inside out is courage! All those fears that you have spoke of, in due time...POW! Courage, just out of the blue! You'll be WOWING yourself!
I can't say it felt absoulutely wonderful not to be near him . I would be lying. If the circumstances were different I would of love to sit next to him.
I'm just glad I didn't have a clear view of him at the concert. I think that helped me.
Alot of my strength came from some of the e-mails that we had to exchange yesterday. I can see he is still in the blaming mode. Had to do with DS playing hockey.
The one that burned my arss...
DS was suppose to have track meet before his concert. Well it was raining all day so I called the school to see if it was canceled. DD mentined she was going to the town WH works in and see if he would give her some money for something for prom. I mentioned since she was calling her dad to let him know she was oicking him up so DS could get ready for concert.
This is his e-mail
D just called. I guess you told her that she was to pick up B tonight? Hadn't heard about the meet or changes in the plan to pick him up.
My response
It’s raining the meet was canceled. I called the school to find out the meet was still on and was told it was canceled. I asked D to pick up B at R's so he would have time to get ready and knew she was calling you and ask her to let you know.
He did e-mail back Sorry. Which really surprised me.
What burns me is it's now his job to find out for himself if things are scheduled. He doesn't want me but still wants me to play rhe role of wife in this sense. I'm sorry I'm not playing wife unless I get all the benifits of being his wife.
I really think he thinks we are going to be one big happy family. The friendly divorce....NOT. Not under these circumstances.
Just ranting this morning he gets me sometimes. Look he even pushes my buttons just by e-mail.
Now I'm dreading that he might show up at DS doctors appt. He may be getting his cast off. You know he has to play father of the year. I mean why take off time from work when I have today off??? I will let him know what the doctor says.
Off on a tangent... DS plays bass guitar and they gave gag gifts to the 8th graders. He got clapping hands... music teacher mentioned how he's playing better with 2 fingers than he was with 5. I thought that was cute.
Off my rant.
I still feel better about myself. I can do this. I want to do it with H but sometimes it doesn't work out that way. Working on me so that if he does see the light I'm a stronger better and more loving person.
Thanks for the heads up on DS name in e-mail. I missed that one completely. Thought I got them all.
Now I have a question... WH showed up at DS appt. how do you handle that in plan B without making a big scene?
I think I handled it very well... the one time I did make eye contact when he first got there I saw the darkness of his soul. The eyes that I have seen all last year. I prayed to God please get me through this without loosing it.
Any suggestions on a way to handle this in the future?
How are you suppose to be... I was torn do I try to plan A a little or just keep my composure like he is a virtual stranger who just happens to be next to me. The funny thing is usually with a stranger I usually make small talk. I hope I did the right thing treated him like he was a stranger that just happened to be there. No small talk.
Now I need not to dwell if he thought I looked good or did it just make him gald he is no longer with me because I won't cooperate with his fantasy.
Now I need not to dwell if he thought I looked good or did it just make him gald he is no longer with me because I won't cooperate with his fantasy
Exactly! You are right on. This is no longer about him as much as he thinks it is. You have executed your plans and become a better ,more improved version of what I am sure was already a good wife and mother. This is all about you now. If he gets it then YOU can decide whether you would have him back or not. AND, no you are not required to cooperate with his fantasy. Is he cooperating with yours for a wonderful marriage, intact family, etc. It appears not.
Thanks for the response. No he hasn't played into my fantasy of a great marriage and family life at least for a couple of years. He was away in his own fantasy while I was struggling.
I wasn't perfect mom or wife...I have improved immensely though. ANd you are right I'm in this for the long haul (*self improvement).
It's in Gods hands if WH decides to work on himself.
just keep my composure like he is a virtual stranger who just happens to be next to me.
I think that you did just what you needed too...i would have done the same thing!
I agree with HAP too...don't go there...just my POV, it would be punishing myself if I allowed those thoughts in my mind...more heartache becuase I know better...
Mine, could careless...he's only out for himself...same way he's been , only I didn't want to admit it too myself completely...I mean I would complain but I thought that he cared when he only cared about himself and his appearance!
YOU are doing SOOOOO great! I'm SOOO proud of you! THis is the way you protect the love that you have!
WEll, i think that this is the beginning to detachment...first you learn this and then you can start to learn how to detach with love...
you're making progress...I use to be where you are...now, I can look at all the stupid [email]cr@p[/email] that STBX is doing and just feel sorry for him that he messed up his whole life by making some bad choices...
This goes to loving the person and not the behavior! you'll get it! I have faith in you!
I still love him, I miss the good times when we would laugh and all the great other stuff, but I don't love the choices he's made!
I feel like I'm in a dream and just want to wake up.
How long were you in this stage? I feel like I should be seeing some progress. Although I have not had a stellar plan B and my plan A wasn't the best either. WH keeps trying to engage me.
Sometimes I just drive myself crazy with what he is thinking. If he even misses me just a little. Then I give it to God... like I'm going to do right now. God help me see the clear vision of what you have in store for me. Help me follow your path. God please break WH so that he sees you in his heart and starts making good choices.
Well, let's see I've been gone for ten weeks...barely spoke with STBX...probably six weeks before my heart stopped aching and I missed him so much I would think about calling him...
LOL...standard withdrawal period thinking about it...i haven't seen him...in the last month I think I've talked to him twice...very MOF...said what I had to say and got off the phone...like "hey, uncle W died, thought you would want to know", and "L has meds., you need to give them to him."
You are making progress and WH still trying to C you, well, that's just him wanting to control...
First, try to minimize your contact with him. You are in Plan B, and all the emailing you two do is not good for YOU. It's not good for you because it keeps you entangled in his life and his A. It's also not good for him because it furthers the illusion that he'll still have control over you AND have his mistress too. I know you have kids, but if he wants to talk to them, let him email THEM and call THEM, not you.
Next, if he wants to be Mr. SingleFreeGuy...then one of the benefits of the Lovely Mrs. Still that he has lost is The Lovely Mrs. Still's skills of keeping him informed of the kids' events. That's not to say that you be a withholding witch--that's just to say that he is a big boy now making big boy decisions, and if he wants to leave Still...then HE is responsible to keep track of the kids' events all by himself! He can call the school. He can call the kids! He can call the coaches and get copies of calendars same as you. Let him face this consequence of his choices and when he blames you for being a withholding witch, just tell him that as an adult parent who has chosen to be single, he is responsible for HIS parenting...and you are not! Smile!
Your killer bee mama,
CJ
(Edited to add) BTW, when you are in Plan B and you see your WH at events, such as concerts or sports events, then you would treat him exactly the same as you would treat any other students' or teammates' dad. You probably don't "run up" and try to talk. You don't hope and wish and pray that they'll notice you either! You just are polite and say "hello" if they do and keep on walking...JUST LIKE A NEIGHBOR OR CO-WORKER and with no additional emotion.
That's why I find I'm not doing very well here. Some of the e-mails need to be done. I'm cutting back on them as much as I can. He still gets his little digs in. This is what throws me for a loop. So all in all he still controls me. They also take a withdrawel from the LB.
I agree completely, he left us. It's his responsibility as the adult (LOL) to gather all this.
CJ
Sometimes I just feel like I'm doing all the wrong things, that it just doesn't seem to be working. In my head I know that this is for me, for my peace. I want it to be for us.
Again I say the serenty prayer to myself. And keep reminding myself I only have control of me.
Still
PS just saw the BTW... thanks that's how I have been trying to handle the situation even though in my mind I could jump him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (for a little...oh never mind)
Just read your post on LilSis' thread. It really hit home for me.
As I have said before I hope WH is a level 2 WH and the affair ends soon.
But have a gut feeling that he is a level 3... and sometimes wonder if I'm the BS that is in as much of a fog as he is. I'm having trouble detaching.
I don't think my M was always dysfunctional. Isn't any M that experiences infidelity at some point dysfunctional. It just seems the last few years were the worst. I also wonder if I am a victim (hate that word) of emotional abuse. Does that mean I'm co-dependent and is that why I'm having such a hard time?
Is it normal for me to go over this or is it more harmful?
Then I wonder if this was just an exit affair? He just wanted so badly to just get away from me?
I'm not even sure any of this is makinf any sense. Just alittle confused this morning.
I think I have come to a decision.... I'm calling attorney in the morning and I asking him to drop my divorce complaint. Granted WH counterfiled, he probably will continue but let him and his attorney do all thr work.
Stopped to pick up mail on my way into work this morning.
I had the dreaded letter from attorney's office. We have a date scheduled as a backup on June 7th. My attorney wants to get prepared just in case the case before us settles quickly.
Stopped to pick up mail on my way into work this morning.
I had the dreaded letter from attorney's office. We have a date scheduled as a backup on June 7th. My attorney wants to get prepared just in case the case before us settles quickly.
I don't want the divorce and if I drop my complaint then I think his attorney will have to do all the leg work.
But it probably doesn't even matter anymore because we are a backup case on the 7th of June.
I'm really sucking out at plan B we had some e-mail where he told me he has read my e-mail several times and I guess I was starting to get hopeful and just crashed when I got the date.
I don't want the divorce and if I drop my complaint then I think his attorney will have to do all the leg work.
But it probably doesn't even matter anymore because we are a backup case on the 7th of June.
I'm really sucking out at plan B we had some e-mail where he told me he has read my e-mail several times and I guess I was starting to get hopeful and just crashed when I got the date.
I went to talk with a friend so I wouldn't call him. I'm holding off for now. Like she said if it's God's will it's a back-up case and something else might come up.
My daughters have lost all respect for thier dad. My oldest is going to school in Germany so she has been out of the situation for a few months.
My middle daughter is taking it the hardest. She doesn't want her dad near her but yet gets upset if he doesn't come to her games. She feels he gives more attention to her brother who does go and spends the night with his dad. But doesn't admit that it bothers her.
Both DD's don't want him back... I think they don't want to see me get hurt again. It's something that I may not even have to worry about. Both daughters told him while he is with this woman they will not go see him.
My son is the only one that goes to visit overnight. He loves me and he loves his dad. Actually his dad is spending more one on one time with him then he ever has.
The thing is my WH thinks the kids will get over this and since they are continuing to do extremely well in school he feels justified. Although I think it does hurt him that he lost closness with his daughters.
You could always ask your attorney to request a continuance on the basis of your health? a conflict on that day? a family emergency? etc? When he does that the court clerk will assign a new court date further down the road. Your attorney will have to ask his attorney and they can AGREE to a continuance. If not, your attorney can still request one from the court and the court will decide. Most of the time they will do it.
Sorry you are in such a bad place right now. Try meggy's suggestion. No need to make this thing happen if there's a way you can delay it any longer.
Thought of you yesterday at Mass. The homily was about faith, hope and charity. This from a priest who ordinarily isn't all that inspiring, if you know what I mean...let's face it, some are better than others.
Anyway....I thought maybe God was speaking to me, but I wasn't sure what he was saying?
Hope that my marriage will recover? Faith that God has a plan for me in which a recovered marriage is not a part? Charity in that my expectations of others can be lowered?
And THEN...to top it off, the offeratory hymn was "Be Not Afraid."
Anyway, I just wanted to let you know...as I often think of you during Mass...
Thanks for thinking of me at church yesterday. I wasn't able to go to Mass this weekend because I worked. Going to go Wednsday morning.
I wonder if there is theme to the homily? WH went with DS to Mass yesterday. Maybe something sank in. I can only pray that God enters his heart.
I cry at the song Be Not Afraid.... I go before you always come follow me and I will give you hope (life).
I admire how well you are doing in your plan B.
It's hard when we don't kow what God is trying to tell us... as we don't know how to listen. When I taked with pastor I told him I wish God talked to us more clearly.... he joked about the "red phone" to heaven.
All I know is I feel like I'm always talking to God.... about everyone here, about my kids, WH and most of all the healing of my marriage.
Getting courage up to call my attorney to see if we can stall some more.
Didn't have a chance yesterday plus WH e-mailed to wait til we could discuss it. Because nothing had changed. Needless to say no e-mails from WH to discuss. I guess I just needed this to get my reslove, and was still kind of holding out hope. Still have hope but I need to keep it on God's hands and not keep taking it back.
Plus I need to heal me like CJ said because regardless what happens I need to be stronger even if WH comes back.
I'm also going to talk with Pastor today or tomorrow and let him kow to do what he needs to do about softball because A is still going on and WH wasn't receptive to talking with a third party present. I was so hoping that his going back to church was for the right reasons. And maybe they are but it appears it's just for softball.
Today didn't start out the best... was looking for water pump down in our garage to pump water off the top of the pool and stepped on a nail. Went right throu my flip flop. Didn't really hurt at that point all I wanted was my H to be there to comfort me and help take care of it like he should be. Seeing the doctor this afternoon. Going to go outside and do some yardwork while I wait for the pool guy.
Don't hide. Being alone in the dark--as easy as it is to do--is not good for you.
Get out and do something with other people. Don't be shy about inviting yourself somewhere with friends. Force yourself. Even if your gut still has this little rock in in, at least it won't be a boulder.
Are you still on ADs?
Ahhhh, Still. I'm so sorry...I wish there were a magic bullet.
Yeah I know it doesn't sound it but I am on AD's. I am pushing myself out.
I did have IC this morningand went to breakfast with a friend I haven't talked to in awhile who was very insightful about my WH. She has know us (me and WH) for a long time, we have vacationed together several times. She mentioned to me this morning that WH hasn't looked within himself since the 1st affair. She had talked to him after first A and told him she was suffering from depression (this was all just coming out) and she thought he was also. Also told me to get out and take a class or something to meet new people. That my H has several issues that he may need to work out before he can be "good" for anyone. She also reminded me how near the end he was treating me very rudely in front of everyone. Things that are very easily put away because we want something else so bad.
This morning at IC I tols her that I am at peace but feel uncomfortable being there if that makes any sense? Almost like the hurt and pain hvae become so much a part of me.
Today I am at peace but still want to hide, if that makes sense. I'm so tired all teh time because i can't really sleep. This is all in God's hands... I still have a little hope. If this isn't meant to be and God wills it then maybe I shouldn't cahnge the dat from the 7th? Because maybe the case before us will not get settled? And give me more time. I don't know if you ever do little bargains with God? You know the type of thing if this happens we will get back together? Never happened when I have done that previously for other things and this before.
Well there have been a few things that have happened I'm almost afraid to write them down. But here goes,
Remember there was a young boy lost in the mountains for a couple of days earlier this year. And his step dad dropped everything and after a few days they didn't think they would find him alive? I played one of my if they find this boy alive my M is going to work out. They found him alive.
My DD plays on JV softball and has been passed over getting called up last year and so far this year. It wasn't looking very promising. I did my little game if DD gets called up to V my M will work out. Yesterday she was called up for V.
Is this just my mind wanting to think God is speaking to me? I mean I have played this little game previously and have never been ""on". I'm losing my mind aren't I?
I don't think you are losing your mind, still. That kind of thing happens t me, too. Every once in a while I'll be thinking about something, and a song comes on the radio that seems to have significance to just what I was thinking about.
Or last night I was flipping through and saw a PBS show on about lighthouses (remember my old lighthouse connection?). One of the NPS rangers they interviewed was one that had led us all on a ranger tour once back five or six years ago.
And I chide myself for even thinking for just a second that it's a "sign." Not that it helps you any, but at least if we are crazy, we are crazy together!
I do think you sound depressed, though. And it could just be because of the impending date...more situational than anything.
Question: If you are uncomfortable, how can you be at peace? Maybe you need to give yourself permission to feel uncomfortable? No point in trying to rush the peace along (not that I'm not trying my very best to do so...no luck, either).
You'll feel what you feel. You are working on yourself, doing everything right...you'll get there.
I do think alot of it has to do with the impending date.
Talked again with my pastor I can't remember if I had mentioned he wanted me to extend an offer to talk with a third party present to WH. WH didn't reject it outright but didn't like thre phrase that I would feel safer so emotions won't escalate. Since the date is coming fast pastor wants me to specifically ask if he will take 30 minutes and meet with him and me. His feeling is we went into this as a promise before God and he feels he may be helpful.
So will try this tonight and we'll see if he refuses then pastor will talk to him about things.
He called me.... I e-mailed him earlier if we could talk because of my discussion with pastor. And he called when DS left a message for him e was done his homework. DD boyfriend ended up bringing DS to WH place.
Is WS in the hospital? It is ok to ask about his health. No pity and don't let him string you along. I know mine tried to pull the pity me, I'm sick card..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Here's an example:
WS: I don't feel well.
BS: Why?
WS: Don't know. Maybe I am not eating right.
BS: Thought the OW said she was going to make you happier, wealthier and healthier. Isn't she doing her job?
WS: You know she didn't mean it.
BS: You mean she's a liar and an OW? :gasp: (almost got an oscar for that performance - LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )
WS: I feel weak. I'm not faking.
BS: Oh. Well sorry you aren't well. Call the doctor.
WS: I don't know his name or where his office is. Can't you do something?
BS: Well..... hm.... you don't live here. You are having an affair, you have left our family...... don't have time to help strange people ..... The doctor's name is Dr. _____ and here's his # and address. Call him.
WS: Can you go with me to the appointment?
BS: Why? Isn't OW going with you?
WS: No. Of course not.
BS: Btw, you also need to pay for the visit in full. I don't want to cover you medically anymore. (Now I knew I had him medically covered but I didn't want him to know that) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
WS: What I have no insurance?
BS: It's possible. It was YOUR choice to leave right? With that you lost the privilege to live here and all associated benefits. (kept a straight face - that oscar almost had my name on it - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ).
WS: What do you think he will charge?
BS: Not sure. You will have to ask his billing agent. Gotta go.
WS: I'll call you to let you know when, so you can come with me......
I let him hang on that for a few days. I checked with the doctor so he had a heads up on the situation before the appointment was made. The doctor was one of my supporters. LOL!! Silly WS. The doctor gave him a good scolding. Told the WS he looked very sick and had lost weight. I mentioned about OW's claims to make him healthier and wondered out loud about it. The doctor laughed and said.... 'you know WS, Orchid has always taken good care of you.... not sure why you choose to leave and get so sick.....' WS was out numbered. He just kept quiet. We left in separate cars and I felt a slight victory.
From that point on, I knew the OW was just a bunch of hot air. Should have named the OW - Balloon. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
He had a stress test today. Things are okay he e-mailed me. I had offered to go to the ER for support. He didn't want it. Wondering if ho was there.
I really think we are done. Tonight I hate him. He blew off DD17's game again today.
Talked to my older DD19 in Germany on my way home from work because I am disappointed.... I really had my hopes up that things would work out because he started going back to church. She told me mom he's not coming back... he is not the same man you knew. He's not even our father anymore.
Back to the dark... he doesn't want to meet with pastor because what would it do. I've decided I don't want him as he is right now. Right now they are made for each other and let them sink in thier pigpen of sh*t.
No matter how many times they fail to meet our expectations, it never fails to surprise in some deep-seated way, does it?
Missing another game...not calling...it's baffling.
Like your daughter said, he's not the same man.
Do you ever look at him through squinty eyes and think, "Am I nuts? He looks the same, sounds the same, smells the same...who IS this guy? Cause he ain't my husband..."
It's confusing to the brain, I think. And even more so to the heart.
Still...you are beautiful. You are wonderful. He is NOT. I will continue to pray that he hits bottom.
I read this somewhere and it really helped me put into perspective how this man that I had loved for so long had turned into someone I didn't recognize-someone who used to be a youth pastor-and now doesn't even call his own kids.
"When you violate your own standards, values and belief systems, and you know that violation can be destructive to you, you will lie and you will actually split off and practice denial. You will say it so convincingly it seems like you're creating truth" (Dave Carder on Family Life today radio.)
Yes I do look at him and think he looks like my H, and talks and laughs like my H.... but that's not how my H would treat me.
This man has actually lied to a priest... so he could play softball. LilSis yes keep praying for him to hit bottom. I just hope it's not to late by the time he does. There is go reason not to have any contact with the WS. Today I lost alot of my love for him. There is still a little but his selfishness just blows me away.
Johnstwin,
Thanks for the quote I'm going to copy and read it. It's amazing how they leave all thier integrity and values behind. That they actually believe thier lies.
I am hanging in there. Barely but I will make it. I know I have a lot of love to share with someone and I want that person to be worthy of my love. Right now it's not WH.
Still: I feel that way, too...sometimes I just feel so exhausted from doing everything, being responsible for everything around the house, with the kids, etc. Things that used to be done by two are now done by me, alone.
So yeah...let yourself feel angry. Why not?
You might want to also think about what triggers those feelings. I know for me, I'm usually okay with it all--proud of myself, even, for the sense of accomplishment!--but when I am overwhelmed; that's when I really start to feel down.
So like johnstwin said earlier to me...look at the circumstances when you are thowing a (well-deserved) pity party. Are you tired? Bad day at work? Fight with DD? PMS? Overwhelmed?
Look at YOU...not at WH. I know that's HARD!! Since he's not likely to show up at your doorstep with weed-whacker in hand, try not to waste your energy reserves on mentally beating him up. He's a louse right now...yep, no question. Irresponsible jerk. Check. Left you in a lurch. Acknowledge all of that...feel it.
Then move on.
Think about YOU, glorious YOU! Decide what you can LET GO for the time being. Mow, but skip the edging. Clean, but skip the mopping. Water the garden, but skip the weeding. Give yourself permission to ENJOY the softball game.
Now, take that time you've held in reserve and do something for you. Go shopping. Go to Panera and have some nice pastry and one of their great cups of coffee (it's cloudy here today...). Grab a book and sit on the patio with your legs in the sun so they get tan.
Love yourself, enjoy yourself, let the sun shine on you!
This holiday weekend had it's ups and downs. This rollercoaster ride really sucks.
My parents came up for a day and a half and helped me outside. DS learned how to use the riding lawnmower. Bought myself a lilic bush... always wanted one but H didn't like them. That day was wonderful flowers planted, lawn mowed. Did feel resentful at times because thought about WH off playing.
Memorial day was awful. Wh took kids down to his parents for a barberque. Hurt like he!! to see them all walk out the door and I wasn't invited. I didn't divorce his family. Cried myself to sleep and woke up and felt somewhat better.
Sometime I feel myself getting disappointed with God.... why does it seem the people who break all the rules are out having the time of their lifes? Why is God letting this happen to my family? It seems WH is going to get to continue to play SB. I guess I have to believe there is a reason for this. It just makes me so angry.
Have an appointment with my attorney this afternoon. I guess I need to prepare for court next week.
I know how hard it was for you to see your 'family' go do the traditional holiday events without you.
I got to listen to stories about the lake trip that mine had w/o me, so I do feel your pain
BUT I think that as we can not read the minds of our WHs, we can not ASSUME that their lives are all FUN and GAMES. Maybe, just maybe, there were times that they, too, were reminded throughout the day of things WE would have done or said if we had been there like before
The truth is we do not know and we can not drive ourselves crazy with the wondering. We have to make our own new way for ourselves
I know with court looming for you next week, it is especially difficult
God has not abandoned you. It is normal to be angry at the sitch, but we need to put our faith and trust him Him to put us where we need to be WHEN we need to be there
As Mimi said on Sis's thread - we need to allow God to work HIS plan in HIS way and HIS time.
Easier said than done, I Know!
I will be praying for that faith and peace to come to you today, as I continue to pray the same for myself
I was just taking a little break from it all. Needed to really think about my life and what I want from it. Not sure I'm even close yet..... just found that I was getting more depressed reading and feeling really hopeless about my situation.
On Tuesday saw my attorney. He put in a request to remove our case from the 7th. We still have not recieved all we requested from WH. I told him I still want to slow things down because I am hoping to reconcile. He told me the times he has talked to WH attorney she says he feels sorry for me but still wants to continue. That kind of hurt. I don't want his pity. So looks like June 26th may be the new date. My attorney is going to Alaska for 2 weeks. We also talked about dropping my petition and contesting the divorce. That it is no longer irreconcilable differences. Would be easier to prove if WH and I went out or did the deed lately. So tomorrow I'm going to let him know to drop my divorce complaint. Not sure it will change things but I feel I have done everything I can except kidnapp him and chain him down. My attorney thinks I'm beating my head against the wall and that my head might start hurting from all the banging <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> I told him I know but I'm doing what I feel is right. He told me he works for me and even if divorce goes through it isn't always the end. Will see what happens.
Got talked to at work... not good. last Friday I was having a really bad day and mistakes were made. Nothing to harm anyone but I was told I need to leave personal problems at the door. That she understands but I'm a professional (even if I can't spell it). I think it helped my frame of mind.
Bugs, Rin thanks for checking in on me, it means alot to me.
So glad you checked in! Taking a break and giving yourself time can be really good.
You know we will support you in whatever you choose. I think giving the WH as much time as YOU are comfortable with is good.
I know the 'talk' at work was hard - but it can work in your favor. Get you refocused. No matter what WH does or does not do, your job is important to and for YOU
YOU is where your focus needs to be, along with those great kids of yours!
My attorney thinks I'm beating my head against the wall and that my head might start hurting from all the banging I told him I know but I'm doing what I feel is right.
This is the same comment I get from family, friends, and even my IC.
What I don't think people realize is that this is not supposed to happen. There is nothing that prepares us for these events. No matter how things work out, we have to look back some day and live with our choices.
These are hard times and you seem to be on more stable ground. This means that if he tries to shake your stance, you will be better suited to recover.
As for work....well they have to say that but they c/b more understanding. There was an Oprah segment where a supervisor was key in helping put away an abusive H. So even if we have to check our problems at the door, a wise manager (I used t/b one - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ) would listen and lend a hand so that the employee can function productively. Otherwise, I would wonder why that manager isn't managing their employees with the kind of care they s/b.
No my boss was very nice about it. She felt really abd about ahving to bring it up. I had just had a really bad day (the worst so far) and we do need to worry about patient safety.
I do feel on more stable ground. There is alot going on and I will post more later. Some good some questionable.
Maybe not about the marriage but there is plenty you can do to hold your WH accountable. Get the very best deal for you and your children including college costs, child support, healtcare, life insurance policy for life with you as beneficiary, spousal maintenance, property settlement, etc.
SH, you fought the good fight its time to finish this by standing your ground and protecting you and your children from this "man's" lunacy, bad judgement and selfishness.
Yes he is going to pay the price. I am resigned that the man I thought he was is no longer there. He has lost all his values and integrity. I don't wnat the man he is right now. And he doesn't wish to change.
So in 1 week unless there in a meteor shower that changes all WS I will be divorced.
Saw my pastor tonight and we prayed together. Prayed for God to give me clear vision. Prayed for WH that he opens his heart to God. He said I seemed better today.... not like the last time where I looked like I was drowning and waving for a life preservor. He going to address the OW with WH and told me if he lies it's between him and God.
Just wanted to update have been away for awhile. I think some of this was adding to my depression.
On Tuesday I dropped my divorce complaint with it documented that I no longer feel that our differences are irreconcialable, Mt attorney let his attorney know and so far mothing has changed. Although WH did call me 5am one morning and we talked. I think he is confused. He said this is hard for him and he feels like he is on an island all by himself. I told him he doesn't need to be there. That he knows what he can do and I would love to help him through this. That it would be alot of hard work, all he had to do was say the word and drop his counterfile. He said he really has alot of thinking to do over the next couple of days. I told him it's still not to late but if the divorce becomes final the door will close and I will be moving forward and not looking back. So we still have our court date for June 12 at 8:30am.= in front of a judge. The divorce will probably not be final on that day because of all our complications. And even between that time we can still drop the divorce. I am in such a better place right now. I know I will make it either way. As I told my WH I want to share my future with him but I will be happy and healthy regardless. Hope this peace lasts over the weekend and I can not get worked up about court date on Tuesday.
I'm gonna drink one with Still, one for Rin, toast one to Chris, raise my next one to Bugs, the one after that to Holy, buy Jim a round, steal one from SL, one more for SD, think of an excuse to get LilSis and Sadmo in the groove, have a Shiner with Larry,.....you get the picture.
Glad to hear from you and that you are sounding good! Following your heart is not always easy or popular IRL, but you did what was right for you. That took a lot of courage and strength. Good for you!
Wasn't really drink last night. BC I'm just not a great computer speller. Not all my fingers are where they are suppose to be.
Had IC this morning and I think I am so close to the point of letting go really letting God do his work. I told her about my 5am phone call with WH. And we talked about how I am five years ahead of WH with working on myself (since 1st A). That she feels that I will look back on everything and wonder why I held on so long.
She mentioned that WH needs to forgive himself and really look within himself. And it may take years for him. She jumped on his comment about being alone on an island. He put himself on that island. She feels that even after divorce goes through that he may get it. I told her it may be too late at that point.
I realize I am a beautiful, caring and loving woman. One that is going to make some man in the future a wonderful companion. I am almost to a point where I feel I am emotionall healthy.
It's funny DD had a playoff game today. And I saw him as I was leaving I just smiled at him warmly and he has a sad smile on his face. He texted me about 10 minutes lateer saying what a game. (our girls won) and I texted back yes it was.
I needed to put air in my tires and he drove in to get gas. He came over to help me and show me how to do it and we were pretty close to each other. I thanked him and as he was leaving he called out to me "Di your hair looks really nice today". I said thank-you and got in my car. And was amazed this man rarely gives compliments. Probably reading too much into it.
To just round this out and go watch parent trap with my daughter. I'm letting God take care of this. I don't know what he has planned but I know after all the pain I've been through it's going to be amazing.
OKay, here's my advice to you...you handled that great by the way...I think that whenever you meet up with him again you need to do exactly what you did...
actions speak louder than words...the comment was nice...good for him...and for you...it is what it is...a comment...not more, no less...
you treat him just like you would anybody else...the hair dresser, the bag boy, etc...
Get what I'm saying...you're not clingy anymore, you're not chasing after his coat tail...YOU ARE YOUR own WOMAN! You come and go as you please...you do what you want...and THIS IS GREAT! You are learning to take care of yourself...sir in your tires, the lawn...you hear me...YOU HAVE MADE SOME GREAT CHANGES and he's starting to see...well, let him watch!
ALL HE'S GOT RIGHT NOW IS HIS CHOICES! and nothing else, not great DI anymore...no nice house, nothing that the two of you had before...
I think that YOUR break from MB has done you justice!!! Keep up the WONDERFUL WORK!
I will check in. Still hoping for a last minute repreive. Wasn't it princessmeggy's WH that had a change of mind 2 days before the divorce.
Well for me it's 2 days before. Putting off looking for some information I need for the morning.
Tomorrow afternoon I have an appt with my attorney to go over testimony. Guys I'm really going to needs all the prayers I can get in the next day or 2. I want you to pray for my M. But actually just pray for my being able to see what path I should be following.
First, I wanted you to know that I *am* praying for your M but also praying even more for you. I am praying that God's will be done in your life and that you are especially aware of God's presence and God's hand in all that happens.
Second, I wanted to tell you something especially for you. I know that you are working hard at giving your WH over to God and letting go of the reins, but I also know that deep in your heart of hearts, you still want your M and do not want a D. One of the hardest questions a person asks is often, "I prayed and prayed for God to save my M and He didn't...so if He hates divorce why didn't He save my M?" Still, I know you are a woman of faith and that you speak to your pastor regularly about your M, so I'm going to tell you something I learned when my M ended. Like you, I wanted to honor my vows and did not want a D--but I gradually came to realize that I mostly didn't want a D because I was AFRAID. Yep, I was afraid that if I wasn't a married woman, the church would kick me out...or they'd all look at me like I had a red [color:"red"]A[/color] on my forehead. I was afraid that I would get old alone and that I'd be poor and God wouldn't provide for me. I KNEW how to be married...I did NOT KNOW how to be divorced!
Looking back on it now, I thought if I wasn't in my WH's life that God wouldn't be able to work in his life. I thought God was using me to help my WH grow and become a christian...but what I didn't think of was that if he and I were not together, that doesn't mean God isn't in his (Wh's) life anymore!!! Wasn't that arrogant of me?
Also looking back now, I believe I married the wrong man for all the wrong reasons. I was 23yo and not mature AT ALL, and I chose my WH because he was cute and I had a crush on him. I knew he was not a christian and I thought I knew better than God what I wanted and needed in a husband. I chose a man who was my exact personality type OPPOSITE in every way, so that we had a VERY, VERY hard time communicating because we didn't understand each other. Furthermore, he had addictions and illnesses that DEEPLY affected our M that I was unaware of. Yet, I was headstrong and made a vow--a covenant with a man who was unequally yoked--and the consequence was that I lived a very hard married life, my children had a hard life, there were lots of fights, and ultimately our family was demolished. And I am thankful to God that He allowed me to experience the consequences of my choices...because although it hurt A LOT and I suffered for it...I also grew a lot and came to understand why God tells us what He does about marriage.
Still, you may not see your path now. To you, it may feel like you are taking a step over the edge of a cliff and it seems like there is nothing there to catch your feet. In real life, it's like that movie scene where the guy takes the step of faith into open air only to discover that there is a bridge there that was camouflaged and hidden--he just couldn't see it, but it was there!! God doesn't always let us see our whole path. At times, He might only show us the next step! At times it may feel like we are walking in the woods, in the dark, and only the next step is lit up--the one after that is into the pitch black somewhere.
Psalm 46:10 tells us "Be still and know that I am God". "Be still" means "be at peace in the knowledge" but also "be quiet enough to hear the whisper". You can have PEACE, still, because no matter where you step, you are right in the palm of God's hand! Joshua 1:5 (and Hebrews 13:5) is God talking and He says, "I will never leave you or forsake you." This is a promise, still...and unlike HUMAN promises, you can put your WHOLE TRUST in one of God's promises!! You can stake your life on it cuz you KNOW it's true! And right after God says that, you know what He says next? He says, "Be strong and of a good courage, do not be afraid nor be dismayed, for the Lord your God is with you wherever you go."
See, still, it may FEEL like you can't see your path...and like you're stepping off the edge of the cliff in faith, BUT GOD IS WITH YOU WHEREVER YOU GO. The path is crystal clear to Him, because He made the path for you!!
So have peace, still. You are safe and sound, no matter what happens. If God allows you WH to go, rest safely in the security that God has you and you will learn to know Him better because of this. You will become a wiser, more mature, better lady--and for reasons you don't know yet, God has released you from the vow you made with WH. You have fought the good fight. You have finished the course. You have kept the faith. (II Timothy 4:7)
Still, I wanted to second what CJ said (as she said it so beautifully); you are on your path, you just can't see it right now. I can only imagine the fear that you have right now, but I know that you can perservere all.
I was watching some show this last week, prior to hitting the hay, and Paula Dean was on talking about overcoming being a single mom with $200 to her name to invest in some sort of career. Well, that $200 led her to where she is now; she had faith in herself, and also mentioned taking responsiblity of herself and her family's well-being. She's done a great job, I would say! I know that you can and will do the same. Your fears have one by one been diminished, and you will get past these fears stemming from D, too.
If your WH doesn't come around, it really is his loss, and letting go of the responsiblity of his actions, of holding your 'family' together are not your anymore. You have done all that you can, and/or should, to save this M, and I don't just mean this time around.
As long as you take care of MOM, your children will have some happiness and peace knowing that you are okay. I was at my most happy when I knew my mother was happy.
Me, too, Still. I'm hoping for your marriage, but I know that you will be great whatever happens. You have come SO far it's amazing. I am so impressed by your progress.
Thanks for the prayers. God does work in mysterious ways. I think I'm still in shock.
On my way to work this morning I just cired to God saying I guess my path is the divorce as I hadn't heard anything fom WH. I told God that I was okay with this although it's not what I had hoped for as an outcome.
Around 8:30am my attorney calls me at work,,, he was waiting for some figures on my retirement. First words out of my mouth was that I was working on it and will e-mail him soon. He said he heard from WH attorney so I proably already knew. I asked "Know what". Apparently WH was having second thoughts. He was pretty emotional with his attorney and he wanted to hold off. My attorney told me he would know for sure later on in the morning. I was completely off guard. To say the morning went by slowly is an understatement.
Noontime I get the definate news that our court date has been canceled. That his attorney is recommending we go to counciling etc.
I e-mailed WH and asked if this was true. He e-mailed me back that he has alot of thinking to do, this deosn't mean we will be getting back together and that this past weekend was rough. (he's living with a single guy friend) That he needed a little space and we would talk soon.
Okay I'm trying not to let my hopes get to high. I'm okoay with whatever happens. Who knows the reason why right now but I'm happy and feel like a load has been lifted. It may not change anything at all. My attorney is talking August if it continues.
After considering this for a while, here would be my advice to you. Today your WH postponed the final divorce date. It is ONE STEP in the right direction of a journey of 1000 steps. Yes, acknowledge that it is encouraging. Yes, acknowledge that it is a good step. But if it were me I would not get my hopes up too entirely high.
At this time, your WH MIGHT be beginning to see the light, but it could also be that he is just hesitant. IMHO, he still has a LONG, LOOOOOONG way to go before he proves to you that he is a spouse worth allowing into your life. So, for now I would continue in Plan B--basically live your own life and leave him alone. Continue to be the VERY BEST still that you can be, and continue on your own journey of becoming a better woman and mother. Allow him to DEMONSTRATE TO YOU that he is taking personal responsibility for having two affairs, for repairing the damage he did in making those choices, and for fixing his own life. If you see him breaking up with OW on his own--he might be ready to be worthy of being your DH. If you see him going to DD17 and apologizing for blowing off so many of her games and hurting her--all for the love of a slut--he might be ready to be worthy of being your DH. If he comes to you and says he's in IC and is making progress but needs a little time to get his head on straight--he might be ready to be worthy of being your DH.
Until then, stay in Plan B (do your own thing, live your own life, work on yourself, be happy and peaceful and beautiful) and when/if you do see him, just RADIATE. I'm not talking about being completely NC, strict darkness. I'm talking about being the stunning woman you ARE...and on the occasion letting him see the light through the darkness.
If he does not come to you as I have described above...if he tries to blame or justify...he's not ready. That would indicate increased darkness. If he is making some progress as described above, that would indicate letting him see more of the light that is YOU.
Does that make sense to you? You keep being you and living your life...and if he wants to join you, let him do some work and prove to you that he is man enough to be your DH.
However (and there is always a however in life it seems),
Listen to Mama Bee! She has your back on this and I think is totally right.
I will dance in celebration of your good news,, but will stop short of Rin's idea to do so naked in the street! I'd probably het run over! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Since I care for y'all and don't want y'all to go blind
I shall avoid running nekid through the streets in celebration <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Trust me...you'll thank me...it would be burned into your retinas. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I SHALL, however, engage in Happy Snoopy Dancing in my undies if you insist... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Still!! I kept checking today to see if you had posted. I am so relieved to know that you were (at the VERY, VERY least) able to buy yourself some time.
This is amazing! I am so, so happy for you...no matter the outcome...at least you know that WH had an inkling of what he was carelessly throwing away...for a slut. You have seen the cracks...which I have to believe is preferrable to seeing nothing but cold hard W-ishness. There's some time now for those cracks to potentially grow and finally break WH completely.
Now you can take a breath, and KNOW that all of your hard work has paid off...not just for your growth, but has had an impact on him as well. The rest is up to him.
CJ and the other pros will take it from here...I just wanted to let you know that I will KEEP praying for you. (((still!)))
I am Happy Snoopy Dancing in my Goddess-like Hanes Her Ways!! Hmmmmmm...after reading some of the threads here on MB about new poster names, maybe I should change my user name to "Goddess-like Hanes Her Way" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Still, there is celebrating in the streets for you. Thankfully, here in the Pacific Northwest we do it with our clothing ON!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
I wouldn't even be close to where I am right now if it wasn't for all of you. Right now I'm being cautiously optimistic.... it may mean nothing at all, just a bad weekend with the ho. I am just relieved that I do have more time and with this gives more time for the A to crash and burn.
I am waiting for WH to make the next move about talking about this. He needs time to reflect... I do think there are some clinks in his armour. I won't know for sure until we talk.
I am going to call Steve and set up some counciling with him and maybe WH will also join in at some time.
I never thought I could feel the peace that I feel right now. CJ your words and reflections are inspiring. I did feel as if I was stepping off a cliff and I stepped and God was there for me. What an amazing feeling.
I will see WH tonight at DD softabll final. If they win tonight it's the state championships.
BC... just wanted to let you now I loved the song.
(((Rin, Silent, Wild, Bugs, LilSis, CJ, SDguy, BC,Wondering)))) sorry if I left anyone out.
I woldn't be here without you shoulders, and prayers.
GOOD MORNING STILL! I'm still praying for you and for the best for you!
I'm looking forward to seeing how this things goes, but you have to know that it's all the hard work that you've done...
Can you give us a list or summary of the changes that you've made? It's great to see them in writing and it may help some of the newbies to see how you've progressed...
LMAO...
I'm doing the jump up and down dance with you...you know in a circle while screaming like a teenager!!!!!
Yes, the support here is unlike any other. However, YOU have done the actual work! YOU have made changes in yourself and kept on a path that we all know is the most difficult we have ever walked!
I think that written list of changes is a great idea!
What is the name of DD's team? Want to know the name of the soon to be State Champs!
I'll have to think about the changes I have made. That really is a tough one. I know what I didn't do and should have done. (lol)
My plan B was far from perfect.... you could say I'm a plan B drop out.
I don't want this to sound preachy... but my biggest change was letting it be in Gods hands. disentangling myself. I know the doubts will creep back and when they do I slay them with my goddes sword.
My DD's softball team are the Black Raiders. Tonight at 7pm let the game begin.
I'll start working on my list and catching up with everyone else threads.
This is some of the best advice I was given. Wait for it to come to you. Don't chase down a wayward; no need, and I'm sure you are [email]d@mn[/email] tired of deeling with one.
You let go, that was what it feels like. You finally released yourself from the NOTION that there was something you could do or say; there is not, not really. Your WH has to recognize the decisions he is making all on his own; no prompting from anyone. He is looking at things; that's good. Let him alone; go about things as you have these months; remain in Plan B. You can peek out, and talk to the spouse, but watch out for that wayward, do not let him breach your boundaries.
Ah, the inventory...
You didn't do anything WRONG during this process, just differently, 'kay? MB IS a plan, but without it, you had to make decisions. Also, some of this stuff is hard to swallow (along with a lot of pride) so it's not unusual to fall off of the plans. No more kicking yourself, but look at what you have accomplished. The most obvious is going about your daily life without your spouse by your side. What have you started to do that you weren't doing BEFORE the infidelities? How has your attitude changed? See changes aren't just about what you DO, but also how you think, what strengths you have gained.
Sit tight, Still, as you have been; it's your WH's time to figure it out, and no one can enlighten him. He has to let the light in...
I have two things for you that I wrote...sort of as my 'inventory' at the time. I am sharing them with you UNEDITED and exactly as I wrote them at the time:
First, "CJ's Good Qualities"
CJ’S GOOD QUALITIES:
PHYSICALLY 1. Petite 2. Thick, pretty hair 3. Strawberry brown hair that is cut to the shoulder 4. Beautiful coffee-brown eyes 5. Round little nose 6. Full lips 7. Voluptuous figure 8. Full bodied 9. Tiny, cute little hands 10. A good belly button for raspberries 11. Strong legs 12. Curvaceous legs 13. Adorable toes 14. Flat, square but somehow cute feet 15. Other excellent more private things
SPIRITUALLY 1. I’d say I am a godly woman 2. I have a personal relationship with God 3. I know the ten commandments by heart! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> 4. I know the books of the bible in order! Heehee 5. I have actually read the bible and studied it 6. I value moral living 7. I believe wives should submit to their husbands, and husbands should love their wives like Christ loved the Church (which, BTW, was 100% to the point of giving his very life). 8. I practice, “Faith without works is dead” 9. I trust in God 10. I have strong faith in God 11. I honor my commitments 12. I am learning what true Love is…the real Love that is godly love. 13. My personal spiritual “heroes” are Ruth and Daniel. Read their books in the bible and see why.
EMOTIONALLY 1. Honestly, I’m somewhat of a mess emotionally. 2. My feeling/emotional side is my greatest strength and my greatest weakness 3. I am strong beyond what I thought possible. 4. I am kind, loving, thoughtful, silly, caring, patient, happy, carefree, trusting, and secure. 5. I am also fault-finding, too serious, overwhelmed, mentally exhausted, sad, worried, scared/afraid, unsafe, and ******. 6. My biggest fear is that I am unlovable and unwanted 7. My biggest pet peeve is being ignored or shut out. That rocks my world. 8. I ride a wave of emotions almost every day 9. I do not understand what personal boundaries are, and I find them VERY hard to establish 10. I frequently “flood” emotionally, when I get upset or hurt 11. I LOVE to analyze what I’m feeling, so I am very in touch with myself.
INTELLECTUALLY 1. This one is easy…I am a super genius! Heehee 2. I am very, very, very smart—no boasting, just acknowledging the truth 3. I have an excellent memory 4. I LOVE to learn and I know a little about everything 5. I am an excellent trivia player—look at all that extraneous info in there!! 6. I am smart enough that I could have literally picked any profession: doctor, lawyer, rocket scientist…etc. 7. My I.Q. is in the 160’s. 8. I was studying pre-calculus while still in high school 9. In summary, I am an intellectual dynamo!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
OTHER STUFF 1. I am an excellent, supportive, loving wife 2. I am a fabulous mother 3. I enjoy playing with my kids 4. I enjoy playing!!! 5. I am sober 6. I am an expert at crocheting 7. I am an excellent, naturally-talented writer 8. I like picnics in the park 9. I like concerts and different kinds of music 10. I am a happy person and darn near a comedienne 11. I am very nurturing 12. I am an organized, efficient, friendly executive level administrative assistant 13. I am the POSTER CHILD for I.N.F.P.: Introverted, Intuitive, Feeler, Perceiver. 14. I am a successful business owner 15. I put people at ease 16. I am often accused of being psychic because I can “read” people 17. I am responsible and stronger than I knew I was 18. I am learning how to be a new CJ
1. I survived being hit every day with rolling pins and broom handles 2. I survived being lectured and screamed at every day 3. I survived standing at attention for two hours every day 4. I survived being sexually touched as a toddler 5. I survived being asked to do sexual things as a child 6. I learned about God and had a relationship with Him as a child 7. I survived until I was old enough to move out of the house 8. I made it through college (somehow!) 9. I read the entire bible (old and new testaments) four times 10. I made some serious mistakes in college and in young adulthood 11. I drank WAY TOO MUCH in college 12. I had promiscuous sex in my young adulthood 13. I did recreational drugs in young adulthood 14. I became pregnant when I wasn’t married 15. I admitted I was an alcoholic and became sober while I was pregnant (16 years now) 16. I stopped doing ANY kind of drugs when my son was born… even caffeine! 17. I survived my son’s birth, but just barely. 18. My daughter was a premie—two months early! 19. I survived my H’s first physical affair shortly after my daughter’s birth 20. I cared for my premature daughter all by myself 21. I ran a profitable restaurant all by myself 22. I was a HUGE reason my H’s business was successful 23. I supported my H in pursuing his dream—even if cashflow was not as dependable 24. I juggled a budget and money to keep the family and business afloat 25. I survived being a mom for the kids while also being self-employed 26. I realized/recognized that there was something amiss with my anger and went to individual counseling ON MY OWN. 27. I spent three years in intense counseling to work on my abusive past 28. Although the counseling was HARD and painful, I did it with no support from my family 29. I learned about my inner child and how to talk to her and deal with her 30. I discovered that I had no Nurturing inner voice in my head—I had a Child, Protector and a GREAT BIG Criticizer…but no Nurturer. I had to learn that from scratch. 31. I learned what a Nurturer sounds like in your head by writing down what a Mother would say (a Mrs. Cleaver kind of mother…not MY mother!), what a Dog would say, and what God would say. Often God crossed over into Criticizer, so I had to write what a LOVING God might say. 32. I had to relive memories from my childhood that made me sick as an adult 33. My H tried to join me in counseling, but it was not successful 34. I survived several flings, flirts, and emotional affairs (thinking at the time, it was best for the kids) 35. On February 3, 1999, my H left me for a woman in another state. He left me with no job, two kids, all the bills, and a mortgage three months behind. 36. In the midst of THAT, I found a good job 37. In the midst of THAT, I paid all our bills 38. In the midst of THAT, I got our mortgage caught up. 39. I survived the initial shock and sorrow of when a spouse leaves you 40. I found Dr. Phil’s book “Relationship Rescue” 41. I got real with myself and realized I had contributed to the state of our marriage 42. I worked on myself and the relationship 43. I went to an entire anger management course—one whole year 44. I found MB and after reading all the concepts, began to Plan A 45. I got Dr. Harley’s book and began to read them and understand the concepts even further 46. I found out what my Emotional Needs and my Love Busters were 47. I communicated my Emotional Needs and my Love Busters 48. I found Patricia Evan’s book, “The Verbally Abusive Relationship” 49. I COULDN’T BELIEVE IT! THAT WAS ME! 50. I got and read other books on marriage/relationships by authors like Dr. Laura, Dr. Harley, Dr. Phil (haha), Gary Smalley, Ellen Kriedman, etc. 51. I applied what I understood from the books 52. I read other books on verbal abuse like “Invisible Wounds” and “Controlling People 53. As I learned from each book, I practiced new techniques 54. I got and read books for my own personal growth like “Life Strategies” and “Self Matters” 55. I wrote journal after journal about what I was learning 56. I got on web sites and learned about marriage/relationships 57. I got on web sites and learned about affairs 58. I got on web sites and learned about verbal abuse 59. I got on web sites and learned about emotional and mental abuse 60. I got on web sites and learned about Post Traumatic Stress Disorder 61. I kept trying, kept giving “second chances” and kept having hope 62. I became very close to God 63. I learned how to walk with loneliness 64. I learned how to throw pity parties 65. I learned that a spouse is not always patient because THEY need to learn patience! 66. I learned that walking through the fire purifies you 67. I learned that when I feel like God has abandoned me, He is actually carrying me 68. I went to individual counseling with a “guy” counselor and I liked him because he was really blunt, to the point, and thought like a guy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> 69. My H came to the “guy” counselor with me and they hit it off, so I let him keep going to him 70. I switched individual counselors to a lady counselor, and I liked HER even better 71. I participated in and worked on the assignments for the Marriage Builder weekend 72. I found and secured a marriage counselor who would come to our home 73. I did every “homework” assignment for both marriage and individual counseling 74. I discovered a support group for verbally/emotionally abused women in my town 75. I went to that support group and shared with the women 76. I took home the “homework” from the support group and worked on it during the week. 77. I moved out three times when the his abusive behavior became literally intolerable 78. I built my own self-esteem and self-worth 79. I learned that it is Godly to protect my heart, for it is the wellspring of life 80. I learned that it is loving to allow people to feel the consequences of their choices 81. I discovered a brand new concept: BOUNDARIES (what the heck are they?) 82. I find out that all of my boundaries were trampled as a child, so I never developed good personal boundaries! 83. I had to learn what boundaries were from scratch. 84. I practiced boundaries, but it was awkward and clumsy 85. I picked one boundary and stuck with it…”I’m not okay with that” 86. I honored my promises—to myself and to others 87. I was Radically Honest and expected the same from my spouse 88. I vowed to myself I would not tolerate being cheated on again—for my own self-respect 89. I held to that boundary 90. I protected myself and my children
I share these with you, unedited, so that you can see something. I wrote these lists the year my divorce was in process but not yet final. I came a LONG, LONG way...and I'll bet if you wrote similar lists you'd find that you have too! And it is a good reminder to read over these lists every once-in-a-while when you feel like you're stuck and haven't done anything. You'll see that like I have, you have made a WORLD of change and a LOT of progress personally.
Thanks for the lists... I really need to work on one or two or three. I'll have to reread yours again and again.
Bugs thanks for the bump on that thread I'll check it out...if I can stay awake tonight,
Well DD softball team is going to the "ship" as they say. (The boys also made it to the states). Just got back from a parade through town with fire engines and everything. It's amazing the people that were out on the street waving at this time of night. Didn't think the girls were going to pull it off, we were losing until the 6th inning where we tied it up and then won it in the 7th. Now I just need to get Saturday off.
WH was at game...he called me just a couple of minutes ago because DD didn't say goodbye to him before she left. I told him don't give up. He said give up he's almost beaten down. I think my Wh is hitting bottom.
Tomorrow is my list making day if not to busy at work,
All in all today has been a great day.... both teams are headed for the state championships and I didn't have to go to court this morning.
I think you are also working on perseverance....like E said on my thread...actually we all are here!
"Don't be impatient for the Lord to Act!" Psalms 37:34
That has stuck with me since the day I read it...I can't get it out of my mind...I share it with you...to give you a tool to help you to stay still....
I know, not easy...but you've been doing a wonderful job!!!
What a great quote. I will write that one down and carry it with me.
I find I am a very impatient person. My IC laughed when I said that. She said I don't know of anyone who would still consider working on your M after all this time. She told me I impress her. Maybe I should be wearing a white strait jacket and be going to the funny farm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Rin, I'm keeping you in my thoughts... and I may give you a call soon.
LMAO...no jackets required!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> but there is a beautiful place in Louisiana that I may be able to get a room for you should you need it... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Well, thank you for thinking about me and if you don't get around to it soon I understand...life gets in the way! LMAO
Still, I have attached emails that PWC sent me after our false recovery (1st mail) and On May 5th, 2007--the first day of our mission toward recovery. Just wanted you to have insight into what MY WH was thinking during all of this time. I have other emails, but these were most recent and telling...
March '05 (post false recovery #2)
Quote
I just wanted to take a minute to say that I'm sorry for everything. I have a lot of work to do on myself, I know, and I want you to know that I'm trying to figure out the most effective ways to communicate with DS in this trying time and find some help (and perhaps some meds) for myself. I realize that telling DS that I'm a jerk (true or not) was not a smart thing to do...I was doing a lot of thinking-out-loud that day with him and that was something that he picked up on. I know sorry isn't enough, but you deserve at least that. --PWC
May 05,2007
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I want my family back. It's taken me some time (too long, I know) to make this move, but you already know that I have regretted leaving from day one and it's taken me some time to do what it takes to be able to say the things I've been wanting to say. I'm just putting incohesive thoughts down now, but I promise to get to a point eventually. I won't make any excuses or justifications for my behavior because my actions are inexcusable. I know that MB thinks it doesn't matter what the reason for reconciliation is, be it financial or otherwise, but it matters to me. I'm not insinuating that MB is wrong, but I believe that my reasons for the attempt have to be far greater given my offenses. Yes it's true that I want my house back and that I am struggling financially, but the life, the family is what I want--it's what keeps me going. I am continuing to be selfish, but this is a good selfish. Initially, I put much of the blame on you for my unhappiness and you acknowledged your role in my waywardness. I sought someone else to meet the needs that I felt were neglected in our relationship--initially. But, once you were willing to take responsibility for your role and make an effort to modify those behaviors, you were exhonerated of any possible responsibility, leaving me bearing the weight of my own poor decisions. Perhaps it was easier to blame you and DS than to admit that I had problems, but I was still of the belief that I didn't have any emotional issues--that nothing in my past had any impact on my emotional state whatsoever. I was wrong. All of my emotional influences in my life as a youngster were such that emotions weren't spoken of out loud--there's nothing wrong, even if there was. My mother was really the only person that I ever saw emotional, but she always seemed a bit over-emotive, almost unstable, then she allowed those things to morph into alcoholism. And then there's my brother, wayward alcoholic, or perhaps alcoholic wayward. 2 out of 3 siblings with an alcohol problem--a little ironic considering they came from parents who never showed much of an interest in the drinks. Anyway, with a proven history of alcoholism, I have to observe my own habits closely and question how much my embibements are recreational versus behavioral--I realize that--but that's enough psycho-babble for now. Back to us. I'm proud of you for realizing your true value. I know it's easy to allow your self-worth to go down the toilet in this sitch, but you have nurtured your esteem and fortified your value regardless of the influence of my rejection. That's something that I admire and want for myself. I admit to my depression, my weakness. This is going to be hard, I know, and it continually amazes me that you still keep an 'ember' for us, when most would've said '****** OFF' by now, as I'm sure most of your friends/family have already stated. I'm sure a large part of that is your passion to keep it together for DS best interests, but I also know that you have kept close the memories of what used to be with us. I have to thank [insert higher power here] for DS, or perhaps DS is the higher power. DS is the thread in our patchwork quilt of a life. Well, I guess I am getting ahead of myself. This is assuming at this point that you'll give me a chance to try again. No more false recoveries. I think of where we would be now if I had stayed and it kills me. It kills me to witness the effect it's having on DS...I can only imagine what that's been like for you. I don't get enough time with him. I don't want to miss out on his life and what could be for us. I want a chance to make it right because I don't want this fate for us. Because I don't want to get divorced. Because I love you. Because I love my family. Can we talk? Yours,PWC
Thank-you for sharing that with me. I'm hoping and praying that this is all starting to sink in with my WH.
I hope someday to recieve such a letter from WH. I still think he has a long way to go to get to thet point.
Unfortunately I can't help him get there, he has to do it on his own.
My IC said something interesting that I was just thinking about. That maybe WH is testing me... testing me to see if I am really willing to forgive him. If I am really still there. I don't know about that....it's just I feel in my gut that everything is going to be okay. That I am goign to be okay.
Of course I'm anxious to find out the reasons that he had 2nd thoughts but I have to wait until he's ready to share that with me. And he may never share that with me.
Went to mass this morning... since I'm working the weekend and won't be able to go.
After mass I went over to talk to a sister that used to be a secretary for my kids' elementary school. She asked me how I was doing. There was another sister with her and I had mentioned it's taken 9 months but I'm finally okay with whatever God sends me. The other sister said it takes 9 months to give birth to a child... this is a new life in the making. What a wonderful way to look at things. Although I have to say this "pregnancy" is one of the most painful I have ever experienced.
I don’t know why I’ve missed your thread for the past few (important) days. Weird. I caught up today though and I am rejoicing for you!
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On my way to work this morning I just cired to God saying I guess my path is the divorce as I hadn't heard anything fom WH. I told God that I was okay with this although it's not what I had hoped for as an outcome.
Wow. This is awesome. I love it when God answers prayers. We don’t always get what we pray for because sometimes what we pray for isn’t what’s best for us. But when it happens, there’s nothing to compare.
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I e-mailed WH and asked if this was true. He e-mailed me back that he has alot of thinking to do, this deosn't mean we will be getting back together and that this past weekend was rough. (he's living with a single guy friend) That he needed a little space and we would talk soon.
We really don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes! Could it be that your WH had a rough weekend because God was dealing with him?
I agree with the others, baby steps. Even if he comes back, he won’t be your H for awhile. The fog is heavy and slow to lift.
The analogy about the birth… cool. You’ve labored hard and painfully to get to where you are now. It’s a new day, a new season in your life. Be happy.
One more thing... on getting your H to talk to Steve.
How 'bout this? WH, I don't know your reasons for postponing our hearing. What I do know is that it was a direct answer to a prayer I prayed right before I found out. In fact, I was in shock when I heard.
I realize that you don't know where you're at right now and quite frankly, neither do I. Will you please do one favor for me—no strings attached? Will you please speak with someone on the phone just one time and tell him how YOU feel? Just listen to what he has to say. He’s someone that has helped lots and lots of people in our situation find their way.
Thanks for catching up on my thread. I thought about you and your story all last weekend. Hoping that God would somehow intervene like he did with you.
I never thought about his weekend being rough because God was dealing with him. I like that thought better.
Yes it's going to be baby steps... if he even wants to come back. I am giving him the time he asked for. When we do get the chance to talk I want to ask him to talk to Steve.
I hope my gut is right... I just feel good about what's happening.
I posted those emails partly to show you how the fog can begin to lift, slowly, over time. It was in December of last year, when he called, mistaking my phone number for OW, that I began to FEEL, intuitively, that all was not rosy. I don't know why I ever thought it was.
Your WH has a long way to go before he is defogged enough, but he did stop the D train, so there must be some fear of the divorce, of what he will lose. You sit tight, Still, and let him come to you. You don't contact him, let him contact you; let him do all of the lifting. This is not your journey right now, it is his.
Princessmeggy, if you are reading along today, could you give a timeline for your recovery? Could you give insight into how you FWH acted after one month, two months, six months, one year? I sense a disturbance in the force with PWC. I don't think he wants to run, but I think REALITY is sinking in hard, reality of everyday life; the kid, the dogs, the house. I also hurt my back, so I'm not much fun right now. I don't know how well he copes when I'm not well. I'll be fine over the next week, but I sense that he thinks I'm wimping out. Believe me, I'm not, just in excruciating pain, wishing I was my old self too.
I am going to let him come to me. I have to, even my IC said this was his battle. I do want to help him so badly. But my "help" may just push him away. And that is the last thing I wish to do right now.
I can't explain how I feel everything is going to be okay. Almost afraid to say that! But I mean okay in the sense whatever happens.
God knows my deepest wish.
So I keep reading the quote Rin left yesterday.
"Don't be impatient for the Lord to act" Psalms 37:34
Missed your post on how to get WHto talk to Steve... that sounds like a great idea. I realy think that will be how I word it.
I know it won't be with the appt I made for next week because he'll be working at that time. But at least I will have some more plans after talking with Steve.
Still, this is why you stay in the darkness of plan B, and take absolutely NO SCRAPS. He decided to stall the D and needs time to think. He is still wayward, so treat him as such and continue your days and nights in Plan B.
I'm coming to find that resolution, even after entering recovery, is a long way out, so buckle yourself in.
I am going to limit contact with him... I don't want to but I get more confused when i see him. We are going to talk later this week about the reason he got second thoughts. He told me he owed me as much.
That's when I'm going to broach the subject of him talking to Steve H. Still very curious to know if things are crashing with the ho. Ny gut feling is telling me all isn't fine and dandy.
Thanks for the advice ..... I'm kind of getting sick of riding rollercoasters.
Thinking of you....glad to know that you are safely buckled in with the bar locked in place as you go up the steep ascents and down the steep declines..
I wish to be off the ride as well...but at least I am presently in a straight-away, catching my breath. We'll trade places eventually.
I was nervous, too. Don't worry. Remember, no matter what is said, you will end up knowing what you need to do next. THAT is what I needed most.
Do you have your most important facts written down in a timeline? That helped me keep on track during the call
Also, be sure to let him know you have been posting here.
Have a separate pad of paper to take notes. Immediately after the call, go through your notes and fill in the details while they are fresh in your mind (again, something that helped me)
BTW- I don't know about this being an exit A. He had the chance to walk through that Exit once and for all and stopped! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Still, I agree with Bugs, he would be long gone if this were an exit affair. What the h3ll is an exit affair anyway; aren't they all ASSUMED exit affairs (on the part of the wayward). Don't they all assume they are leaving for good! Seriously, let's just call them affairs. Okay?
Quite interested to hear what Steve H. had to say. Interested to know how you are doing also. Keep us POSTED!
I enjoyed the definitions of exit affairs.... had me lol.
One of my friends was having a crisis and that had to take precidence sorry.
Basically Steve also agreed that it was a good sign that at the last minute he was having second thoughts. But he still feels he has a long way to go.
He mentioned asking him what would make him the happiest.... wouldn't he be happiest if he could be happy with the mother of his children, And how would he make that happen. He needs to change his belief system. To enocurage him to talk to this guy that has alot of experience with people in our situation with no strings... no expectations or false hope on my part.
He feels right now WH doesn't think that is a possibility because he doesn't have the tools or a road map to show him the way. How WH feels hopelessness about our relationship and if there is no hope he can't ever see himself being happy with me.
He feels if WH can see there is a path to get to happiness with me that if we use the tools of filling each others EN and not to lovebust he would almost garentee that he wouldn't have another affair. Because he would have the tools. That it still would be a lot of hard work but we would eb able to see the benefits.
He also agreed that affairs are affairs... no need to label it an exit affair.
So now I have to write down what I'm going to say and practice this and pray like mad that WH will take 45 minutes and talk to Steve.
You are so right .... and this fat lady right here is not ready to sing. Not yet anyway.
I'm going to sleep and really think about how to put it in my own words. I think this is a good time since we are suppose to talk soon about things. I really fel like Steve could help him if only he would let him.
It's back to praying for WH to break and it's still in God's hand I'm just going to give a little push. Maybe this is what God wants me to do.
Bugs I'll be thinking of you tomorrow and your WH while I'm at work. I'll check in. I'm with you that I would really want to know what he thought. Steve had mentioned to me while I'm giving the info to add and you can tell me what you think?
MY friend is going through this same [email]S@@t[/email] that we are all in.
I directed her to read here and get info. She also is having a hard time letting go... it's sortof funny but we break at different times so that we help each other get through our rough spots.
Hopefully we never break at the same time or there may be a flood in our small towm <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />
Through e-mail yesterday WH did agree that we could meet and talk. I told him that I would like to do it face to face. That I may need a hug after.
This got him concerned that Iw as having a health issue... or that I have "done something". I told him no health issue and that I really wanted to wait till we could discuss it. He told me he would... now the waiting begins. You would think I would be really good at this.
Trying really hard not to think about who he is with tonight. I did TM him earlier that I hope he was having a good day and he TM me back U 2. Small steps.... it's something he may have ignored in the past.
We took a tour this afternoon at the local Hawaiian Plantation down the street from our house. Imagine that..... I lived in this town for over 2 years and never been to this little historical spot. H wanted t/d something as a family and well this was his choice. It was very culturally educational. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Anyway the guide pointed out a tree during the tour..... he called it the 'b still' tree. Guess who I thought about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
What I wanted to tell you is not t/b anxious. The WS' often can't handle much and most of us as BS' find it hard to hold back once we have their attention.
So chill a bit, sit back, practice your deep cleansing breathes and calm that heart down. Remember your clear mind and calm heart. You will need it. Oh yea.....lots of patience.
Keep a glass of ice tea or cold water near by with a straw..... it will help you display a calm demeanor. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Someday maybe I will go to Hawaii and see the B still tree. Always been a dream of mine to go for our 25th....
All I know is before I speak with WH I will pray to God to give me the right words to say. This is still in his hands and only HE knows the outcome.
Thanks for your kind words I will most definately use that advice... although I wish it could be somthing stronger than ice tea... but wine could make me more emotional and I can't do that.
Last night I kind of fell apart. Cried while WH was here. I just miss him so much.
Tonight we may have our "talk" at DS hockey game. I just got to remember this is in God's hands and stop trying to take it back from Him. Stubborn I know.
So today I will prepare myself to ask him if he would do one thing for me to help me get over this. And I'm trying so hard not to get my hopes up. If it is meant to be it will happen.
Here's my hand...helping you up...picking up the pieces...helping you sort through them...arranging them...rearranging them...and helping you put them back in place...
You don't pull yourself together and it's not going to be a good thing...think about how you will appear to him...????
Thanks so much that is what I needed right now. I'm hoping WH calls tonight when DS goes to bed, It may be late because just getting back from his first HS hockey game.
If he doesn't call I may just put it all in an e-mail or do you guys think it would still be better to talk about it?
Thanks so much that is what I needed right now. I'm hoping WH calls tonight when DS goes to bed, It may be late because just getting back from his first HS hockey game.
If he doesn't call I may just put it all in an e-mail or do you guys think it would still be better to talk about it?
Still
If he doesn't call, he doesn't call. E-mail only what you need. Don't feed the WS. It causes them to puke and you don't want t/b covered in WS puke....their toxic. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Unless something is engulfed in flames or something has fallen on you, or your daughters or son, don't email your WH, don't call him. Let him come to you. He stopped the D, so let HIM tell you why, let HIM lead.
Believe me, I love to lead, but when PWC first emailed on May 5th, he sent a TM to ask me to read it, so I decided that I would, as this was new for WH, and I had a feeling it was important. After I read, and we made initial contact, I've let him do most of the calling, especially initially. I felt better not burdoning myself with trying to extract info from PWC in MY time.
What is the rush? Steve H will still be there tomorrow and the next day, and the next day.
I think what I'm most afraid of at this point is that he will change his mind and continue with the divorce.
That maybe he is thnking what the he!! was he thinking to postpone the court date.
You are right I need to let him come to me.... this is really hard because I feel since this affects me I have a right to know.... doesn'e make much sense.
Looking it over it doesn't make any sense. Although he did tell me that he does owe me an explantaion.
So the waiting continues.... you would think I would be goos at this by now.
I don't kow what is the matter with me the last couple of days.... I've been pretty down.
I know it's just a blip in the rollercoaster ride. I rhink some of it is the time of year... this month was when I first fond out about the text messaging and such. And 4th of July he was so cold to me and the whole time during the fireworks I kept thinking is this the last 4th we will spend as a family....and that night when we arrived home is when he told me he wanted a divorce. And denied there was anyone else.
I really just want resolution...at times I really feel like this is it. And the ripping out of all my insides happen again.
What is it about independence day that makes the infidels so whacky?
Two years ago, the OW#1 was at my house (she was PWC's supervisor, go figure) for our Fourth of July party; hangin' out with me, talking about wanting kids someday soon, about her thinking my son is just adorable. I decided that I wanted to sit on my son's swing set and swing a bit, while the party was going on, she came and joined me; thinking back on it now, I have no idea why--maybe to assuage her guilt by finding out that I am a terrible shrew and it was okay to boink my husband. I dunno.
The whole night is now perfectly burned on my memory; fast forward to one year later, the party went off without a hitch, and within a week, I was asking PWC to leave again. I can see why this time of the year is rough for your, as it is a HUGE trigger of it's own.
I used to love the holiday, l-l-l-l-l-ove it, NOW, I just want the party to go by. I just want the holiday to pass. I know that I will enjoy some part of it, surely.
Believe me Still, this is the worst of it. The waiting, that is. I prefer for someone to rip the bandage off, not to slowly peel it off of my skin.
Sometimes, when I'm feeling really low, I start to jump up and down or play with my son or do something completely silly; you will at least giggle when done correctly.
Yes this is a trigger time... I think the whole summer will be.
It's just going to be dates of when things happened.... doing my best to get through it.
It will be different watching the fire works this year... it was one of my favorite things to do with him. Just looking up in the sky with the fireworks going off right above us. Then coming home and watching the boston pops on TV and the fireworks down in Boston.
We have a street dance the night before in our church parking lot that's going to be different also. Will she have the b***s to show up there? I want so badly to confront her... although I know that won't do anything. He!! I don;t even know if they are still together. I just assume they are.
Maybe tonight when all the kids are in bed I'll dance around in my birthday suit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, that might make me feel better. Just imagine getting naked for no one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I think, as the fireworks are exploding this year, I will let that signify the release of some of my triggers. I will attach one to a firework, and as it sails into the air, that will be the release, and as it explodes, that will be the relief. Some triggers may come back next year, but the ones that I really let go of will explode overhead with a mighty BOOM and a shower of sparks!!!
That is a great idea... maybe by then I'll be ready to let everything go. I was there one time and I know I will get back there.
At our fireworks where we go to watch it's in our local park... and they have patriotic music playing over the loud speakers while the fire works are going on... in my best times I would get tearful. I'm a sucker for all that patriotic stuff.... even before I was pretty emotional. I wear my heart on my sleeve I guess.
It's going to be hard just knowing he's in the crowd somewhere.
Well only one more day left of my terrible year. A year ago tomorrow WH told me he wanted a divorce.
I remember saying to him that it feels like this will be the last fireworks we go to together. He told me to get used to it. Just some of the cruel things that were said to me last summer, while he was slithering on the ground with the ho. Now this year he can spend the holiday with his new family.
Found out this morning he is still seeing her... I guess my gut feelings were way off. I had really thought he wasn't seeing her anymore.
Although last night he did tell me he would think about talking to SH...although I'm not holding my breath. I now have done everything I could do and then some. It is now completely in God's hands. He knows I still love him and want to do the hard work of recovery. That's all I can do.
Haven't got back the stillness yet but know it will be back. Maybe after all the stupids anniversaries are done.
The anniversaries are really, really hard, aren't they? Maybe it's best just to not expect anything of yourself and just go through the day on autopilot. At least it will be over.
Can you imagine that those fireworks are OW's head? or that she's been duct-taped to one of those rocket things going up, and the sound isn't the rocket, but her, yelling, "EEEEEEEK!!" only to explode into a million pieces, and blow away like smoke. Take that, skank. Enjoy the ride.
Yes I think I'll just let myself feel the pain for the next couple of days. And begin to look forward to next year.
I think I will picture OW on the fireworks... but her skankiness might make the fireworks be a dud.... you know the ones that don't explode. I'm a little nervous that I might see her at some of our towns festivities. Unless she's going out of town with Wh who needs some time alone.
Still- I am SO , SO sorry to hear about your pain of finding out about continued contact. You just deserve so much more than that! I feel for you so much as I went thru very similar experiences to yours- remember how similar our overall situations are? I was in a deposition 2 wks ago where my attorney was questioning my H under oath about details of his 2 affairs and I was shocked to find out he had signed the apt. lease with his current OW clear back in Nov. BEFORE I even found out about his second affair. What a shock! And that he had spent marital money on 'work related' trips that turned out to be hotel rendezvous for the two of them. All while he refused to let me buy a plane ticket for my parents 50th wedding anniversary last summer as he said it cost too much. I am so relieved I will be getting away from his repeated lying to me after this legal/custody battle. Honestly I think sometimes that he believes his own lies. But whatever. I am rebuilding my life from scratch and trying to be a great mom to our 3 kids.I am discovering my own self for the very first time after 21 yrs of him deciding things. Take care Still.
Thanks for the response. Yes I'm very discouraged about continued contact. It's funny WH is spending today with his parents and I have our kids. And the Ho is with her H. Isn't that something. Hopefully today will be painfully lonley for WH.... and make him realize all that he is throwing away.
From the TM he sent me today he is very angry and I think he is hurting... and I think that is great. Soon I hope he hits rock bottom. It's sad but I still love the man. Although I'm not sure if we'll be married for long.
Well another trigger day has passed.... it wasn't easy but life in general isn't easy. Did I think about Wh several times in the last few days . Yes I did.... past memories are hard to forget.
I think it was also hard for WH... not enough for him to stop what he is doing and lying about it. Maybe that time will come... I can't keep worrying about it.
Now this is no offense meant for people who didn't save thier M... because very soon I may be part of that club. But it has taken me awhile to realise just because this D may go through does not mean I am damaged goods. And I felt for a very long time that is how I would be looked at... I had no control over Wh and his actions. And I can't take responsibility for his choices. These are choices he made and unfortunately my kids and I have to live with. But the ownness is on him.... and maybe someday he will realise that. the way it looks now it may be too late.
Will I feel differently tomorrow ... probably.
I still love the man he was....but I'm so scared that man is no longer there. And I know I can no longer try to save him.
Just rambling... all I know that he is losing the best thing that ever happened to him... he will be hard pressed to find someone that was willing to stand behind him like I was. It is his loss.
Hang in there. It isn't fun, but I promise you that things DO get better again - even if you end up divorced. And the odds are still in your favor. Most husbands return to their wives - hopefully you will still want him.
Still, I'm glad you made it through the 4th. I know it was hard for you. Yes, it is his loss. No question.
Hang in there. One day at a time, right? One foot in front of the other and eventually we will get....somewhere. It would be nice to know where, but...
Just a friendly reminder.... I agree, you are NOT damaged goods. Instead you are even more valuable because you are a survivor.
It is sad that you and your family have to go through all this pain and suffering. I remember I demanded that SOMEONE in our family be happy for all the misery the A caused. I demanded that the WS be happy because I told him that I knew both our son and I were not happy as a result of his A. So I got the courage to demand he be happy for all our misery.
You know what? That was like a curse on the A. Boy did it have an impact. See I demanded he act happy when he had to interact with us. While in plan B, I had interaction with him in regards to mail, money and child visitation. So for those times, I demanded he smile an be up beat. I saw the more horrifying twisted face as he tried hard to smile and be happy (I had the MB gun to his head - LOL!!!). Eventually he learned he couldn't be that and every time he was with the OW, any enjoyment was tarnished with my words ringing in his ears 't/b happy'. LOL!!! Awwwh.... I had found my trigger.... anything the BS demanded the WS couldn't do. LOL!!!
Anyways...... you keep moving forward. The gap between you and the WS will widen. That's ok. If your H decides to run to catch up with his family and you agree to let him back into your family will be dealt with at a later time.
Until then, move forward with the grace and dignity of the lady you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I'm really sorry to hear about the continued A. I didn't see if you two ever sat down to discuss why he stopped the D. Did he talk about this at all? Are you going back to Plan B? It's a good thing, to let go. You will feel better, and you will become stronger, in time.
I'm not sure what plam I 'm in right now. Not sure if I should try plan A again or go dark into plan B.
We did have our conversation over the phone earlier this week. He told me he wasn't having second thoughts that he thought some things shouldn't be decided before a judge. Not sure if I believe him or not. I saw how he acted the weekend before...this was just words when we talked, almost like he was trying to convince me to give up hope. He did say he would think about holding off the D and talking to SH. He says he needs to decide what he really wants... and he would think about holding off until he decides. I think it's best not to bring it up again... not sure if that's the right thing.
The next morning he called early and you could tell he was itching for a fight. It made me think that he was trying to make it so he could be mad at me. Didn't engage in that convo... but did ask if he was still seeing HO. Noy sure if I believe him but I going on the assumption that he is.
When I have seen him the last 2 days at kids games didn't say to much.
I really need some advice on what direction I should be going in.
Yes Orchid I really would love to know what can help.
Can you let me know.... on my way to work again I'll check in there. Although can't post there.
He TM me last night asing why I act so differently around other people. I was laughing and actually enjoying myself with friends. I didn't respond because I'm tired of putting my heart out there to get hurt by him. Iwent to bed to think about a response and sell asleep. What I stopped myself from doing was to call him and tell him my feelings... he doesn't care..
His question was a good one. A bit foggy but a good one. This means he notices you can be different. Mine asked me the same question also. I believe my response went something like:
WS: How come you are different with others than with me? You are happier around others and not me.
BS: Good question. Now let's clear up that I am NOT doing this like my mom did when I was a kid. You are getting a different treatment because of HOW you choose to treat me. Treat me well and be a good friend in addition to being a good H & dad, then you will experience may happy moments with us. Continue t/b the grouch and WS you've been and well.... what else do you expect?
WS: Yea. I understand. Ok.
That was my answer. See when he asked a good or even fair question, I answered. The answer was designed to make him think NOT change him.
thanks.... I wish I could almost view it the way you do. I actually think it was a DJ to me. I think he was upset that when he came over to see me I talked briefly with him then turned back to my friends.
Dev,
Thanks for the hug right back at you.... I'm glad that you are doing well and moving on.
Orchid,
Like I stated above to Bugs.... I think he was upset that I wasn't real warm to him. What does he expect? If he calls tonight to go over bills and mentions it I may say something like you said. Right now I think I should leave it alone. What do you think?
I'm thinking about maybe calling SH again to ask him what I should be doing now at this point.
Like I stated above to Bugs.... I think he was upset that I wasn't real warm to him. What does he expect? If he calls tonight to go over bills and mentions it I may say something like you said. Right now I think I should leave it alone. What do you think?
I'm thinking about maybe calling SH again to ask him what I should be doing now at this point.
Still
Whatever the reason, you do what is best for you and your sitch. Never mind the impact on the WS. WS' are constantly grouchy anyway, there is no pleasing them. So don't waste time trying. If you want to ask your question, do so.
You got that right about WS' always being grouchy. You would think that they would be happy as a clam because they are getting what they "want".
I know he is always looking for anything to be "mad" at me. If he didn't then he might just have to face himself and what he is doing. Always have been easier to blame someone else for his problems.
Hi Still- I wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you too! I look for your posts on the board to see how things are going with your situation. Big Hugs!!! I have been in therapy for 6 mo now and came to finally figure out that my H is a narcissist- its all about HIM and he projects his anger at himself and the results of his affairs onto me. So needless to say I need continued therapy to help me deal with the fact that "Just Because He Says It--Doesn't Make It True." as my therapist frequently reminds me.
Thanks for checking in on me... maybe that's what I should keep telling myself just because he says it doesn't mean it's true, My IC also says look at his actions not his words. It's hard to know actions since I rarely see him.
I also think that he projects his anger at himself on me. My IC also thinks WH might be narcisisstic.
Off to Arcadia. Hope the rain holds out.
LIM... it seems we have alot in common would like to share more with you.
I forgot about fine line between love and hate. Because when all this started last year I really hated him.
Had a great time with my 2 kids that are home and thier friends hiking. We did a hike that was up hill.... boy forgot how old I felt when the boys were running up the trail and I was barely breathing (lol).
I got the boys home in time to head off to thier hockey game. I don't kow where they get their energy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> WH coaches the boys and at the end of the game got a stick in the mouth. There was alot of blood. When it happened I didn't know if he got hit in the crotch or what because he doubled over. My first thought was God breaking him. I went over to check on him and left soon after. He TMed me thanks 4 checking on me. So in the past month he got a black eye (from a drawer while he was moving into in his new house) and now a fat lip with some cuts. Is this God sending him messages? Last night at DD soccer game (He went!!!) people were very stand offish to him. When will this all sink in to him? I just keep praying he hits bottom really soon. So far doing okay this morning will see where the days leads at work.
Trying to get motivated to start packing for our annual family vacation. This week coming is the week we always go camping with 5 other families. My family won't be whole next week.
One positive is that I'll get to see my DD next week, she's coming home the day before her 20th birthday.
I guess I'm hoping and praying that this next week really affects WH. Will he think about us and what we're doing?
Got back today from our annual camping trip. I made it through had fun and did miss WH.... got to see him when we went to pick up DD from the airport. She had missed her flight into Logan and I lost connextion with her and WH handed me his cell phone and i opened it up and there was her name from a recent call. Another stab in the heart. He also came up for an hour or 2 for DD 20th b-day was really looking out of place with all our friends.
The next day DD's layed into me about wanting him back.... how he was abusive and if I took him back they were going to live elsewhere. The ultimatum them or him. Pretty emotional conversation. Of course it's them. I did explain to them that I stilled loved thier dad and if he came back remorseful that it would be revisited.
Tonight WH got brunt of DD20's wrath.... and he tried to blame me for the way they feel. DD said WH we hate you for who you are and not who mom says you are. She doesn't talk bad about you. He just kept trying to blame me and saying the divorce has nothing to do with the affair. And he stormed off.
I told both DD's that someday they may feel differently then they do today about their dad. That he was a good man or I wouldn't of married him and had children with him. I also told them I'm sad that it has come to this.
DD also told him he left all of us not just mom for a ******. She was pretty angry.
Lots was said and I have to get my thoughts straight... I really think it's over he looked at me with so much hatred.
Don't give up, still. It isn't over until you BOTH give up.
He may want to hate you right now because he can't hate himself. It HAS to be your fault because it CAN'T be his. He knows better. Your DDs know better. And YOU know better.
Fog, just plain fog.
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I really think it's over he looked at me with so much hatred.
Today, maybe. But feelings are in a constant state of change. I'm reading Mimi's Plan B thread. Take a look at it...it's amazing how far her and her H have come.
I've seen that look of utter hatred from my WH, not too many months ago. A couple of days ago, I asked him to talk...there was no hesitation and no question why, he immediately agreed.
I haven't had a chance to catch up on everyone's thread. I'll need to catch up on yours
Better bring a cool drink. Mine got a little heated last week. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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I am almost out of hope.
Call out to the vets. As you might know, weekends are quiet. I saw Orchid around earlier, though.
Do something for you...get refocused. Really. I know this is hard, the thoughts just go round and round. But try. Your own mental and physical health is important.
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I have to take into consideration my kids feelings. I did tell them that if he becomes remorseful I will reevaluate.
I've rolled this around in my head, too. How much consideration should I give the kids feelings? Obviously, some, they are affected also. But remember, they are still kids. Even the 20 year old. They have not been married, they have not had the same experience as a spouse.
Take them into consideration, but if/when the times comes, make the decision for YOU.
One day all of those kids will be out of the house and onto their own R.
They're angry and they have every right to be. It can be worked through...and should be whether your H comes back or not. Not necessarily right this moment, but when the time is appropriate.
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He has done so much damage.... and he is no where near wanting to fix this.
HI, I wanted to stop by...Check in...I see that WH is still being WH...and DD's are pissed...more consequences of his actions...
So, Sad! You sound pretty good despite everything...Keep up the good work!
Still, you know that you deserve better right? I'm just asking out of cae and concern...still on your side sweetie! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
When I used to feel that way, I used to post here. It made me see how much I stood to lose if I gave in and allowed a WS back in my life and our home. When I reached out and emphasized MB principles, it helped me reinforce them.
Your grieving of this loss is part of the stages you are going through. Read my link about the stages of grieving again.
It appears your mind and heart are not in sync on a permanent basis yet. It will be, soon.
Please be patient. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Why does it seem that at times my head and heart are in sync... and then my heart wins out the battle again.
I'm truely trying to understand why I even want to take another chance to be hurt again. I mean he still isn't showing any remorse. Not even to our children.
I've read Cat's thread and I see myself there also. Knowing any time that will be me. I know her feelings because I'm feeling them every day. I don't want to be divorced yet I have no choice in this matter.
I will continue to post my feelings... I just wish I knew what I should be doing now?
I will reread the thread on the grieving process. Thank-you.
Sorry you're having a tough weekend... but you know what.. its perfectly normal to feel that way. Even now, as much as I tell myself and everyone else I've moved on (and I have), I still get sad sometimes when I happen to open up a folder of old photos of me and soon to be ex-WS together pre-A -we were so happy together, so in love -how did it all end so quickly?
Then I think about all the crap that went down, and yes, that look of hatred she gave me, and the venom in her voice when she told me how much she hated me. Sheesh... I should be the one telling her that, but yet, I was on the receiving end... FOG, I tell you, its all fog.
Your WH is blaming you simply because a WS cannot and will not take responsibility for the A. You know that, I know that. So keep your chin up, your kids are on your side at least, ya? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Dev explained it well. Here's the deal.... once you know HOW to put your mind and heart in sync (you know by the feeling and frame of mind it leaves in you.....), then when the urge comes to pull you apart again and put you into the fog, instead of stepping on that rollercoaster, you learn to RB back.
Why? Because your goal is now you and your family. You make your choice NOT to accept the WS blame or be in their fog. You choose NOT to allow yourself to get sucked into that A arena.
You are almost there. When you get there the WS' lifeline will be greatly shortened. You may not see it immediately but he will. He may want to ask you 'why did you do this to him'.... or other babble.... you need to practice your replies. They c/b like:
WS: Why did you do this to me? Why are not you there to continue to take my abuse, anger and frustration?
BS: Why? Hm.... because I choose NOT to be a part of your A. My real H would NOT have wanted this to happen to his family but since you have attempted to take over his mind and heart then our family sees you are NOT the husband and father we deserve. We care for our H and father but not you.
Ws: What? You don't love me anymore?
BS: Would you?
WS: Guess not. ok..... bye.
(it's ok to let them have the last word. It can ring in their ears longer). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Thanks for checking on me. I think of you often. I guess it the look of hatred they have for us. And you are right we should be the ones that have that.
Orchid.... I think I'm sort of in a better place right now. I look at him and my most overwhelming feeling is pity. Pity that he has lost his DD's for a ****** and he keeps spweing the babble to them. They all went for breakfast this morning and I guess it was pretty bad. DD's called him on the carpet about choosing his wh**re over his own daughters. And he just said they should be happy that he is happy. I don't want his kind of happiness, it's at the expense of his family.
At DS hockey game this morning he couldn't even look me in the eyes. I just saw him real quick when I went to say hello and hug his parents.
So right now I think I'm numb, and have the pity for him. Does this mean my love for him is gone?
Do you remember me posting on other threads that I used to go 15 minutes when I had the urge to call WH? I would say, "I'm going to wait 15 minutes. I can make it 15 minutes. I won't call for 15 minutes and then I'll see how I feel." And in 15 minutes I would do it again!
I personally think you should renew your Plan B. Your WH is still, CLEARLY, very wayward, and I think his attitude and blame are harmful to you. See, there are a few waywards who "get it" and realize that they made a mistake and take personal responsibility...but they are fairly few and far between. Many, MANY more waywards will blame others, project...and do pretty much ANYTHING to avoid having to take personal responsibility for their choices. Yes, it's true that how *I* behave may have some "sway" on the choices my DH makes, but it doesn't "MAKE" him choose to have an affair!! So what a wayward will do is pick anyone who's around, who will take it, and blame all the ills in their life on that person. Thus...it's not the WS and their crazy life decisions...it's the BS!!
That's why I think renewing Plan B is for you. He's clearly not coming around right now, and part of the reason for that is because he can still blame you rather than having to look in the mirror. If you go dark and silent, who is he left with if his life continues to go badly? Now, just to warn you, there are SOME WS's who chose to NEVER look at themselves...but usually many/most WS's get to a point (often a couple years from when the A started) and they say to themselves,"My life is a WRECK and I can't even blame it on BS because they haven't been in my life for a year! What gives?" and then they START to look at themselves.
In a Plan B, still, you can grow in grace and beauty. There is no reason whatsoever that you couldn't blossom and bloom into a loving, gentle, kind, generous woman of surpassing beauty. Then, when/if WH has his "what gives" moment, you will not be poisoned by his lifechoices but be a beacon of all that is decent in the world. And if WH never has that "what gives" moment, you will still be a STUNNING person!
Sooooo...go 15 minutes. Come on here when you're tempted. And be the goddess you are inside. (((((still))))))
I think we were posting at the same time. I think it is time for plan B again. Not sure if I should give him the same letter or a new one. I don't want much contact with him because it does hurt. I hurt more for my kids than i do for myself.
I haven't called him... or I would rip him a new one. He is so much in a fogg. I will use the 15 minute idea.
Could you comment on the feeling of pity.... does it mean my love is gone?
Personally, I think not. I think you still feel some love for him, and here's why I think that.
Who is someone you do not love? The man at the post office or the garbage man, let's say. Now, if you happen to hear that he's living a life in squalor with a ****** of a woman, you might think, "Man that's too bad for him!" and feel a little bad for him, but then you carry on with your day mostly apathetic about that man's plight. (This is just an example.)
But if you sort of CARE about someone, you would feel something for them. You'd feel their anguish a little at choosing to live in filth. You'd feel how it must hurt them to be with a shrew. You'd feel that they must have hurt a lot of people. You'd feel for his kids...or maybe the family he "used to have."
I personally think the opposite of love is not hate...it's apathy. "I don't care." If you hate someone, you actually care enough about then to want them to hurt like you have hurt!! That's probably not the most virtuous attitude, but it's the truth. You CARE. If you really had no love for them, you'd say, "Huh?? So what?" and keep on walking.
See what I mean?
I think pity is an extension of your grieving. I know I used to feel some pity for my exH. I mean, we owned our own successful business, had a 4000sqft house with a pool, two new vehicles, and very little debt! For all intents and purposes from the outside looking in, we had it all! And he chose to give it up and refused to work on himself so he could have the "freedom" to live in a long-term motel and have a prostitute or cybersex any time he wanted. That's PITIFUL!! But I think really I was grieving...and a big part of it was that I was grieving that I would choose a person of such low moral character! What did I think of myself to choose to involve myself and have children with a person who would leave us all high and dry for cybersex?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Yeah, I pitied him, but I was about 99% upset with myself and grieving what I had done to myself and my kids.
Hi Still- I'm glad you updated us to let us know how you are doing. I know exactly how upsetting it is when the the WS won't show remorse and projects the blame. Mine is still doing this 7 mo. into the divorce and custody/ dispute process- I was trying to discuss 10 yr old son's upcoming Scout camp wk today and WS really started blaming me for the fact that son has frequent nightmares- he refused to accept the advice son's therapist gave and also blamed me for dragging out the divorce. All this blame while he continues to live with his married OW whose H is now divorcing her. So much blame and anger that he throws back at me. I have learned just to tell him, "This conversation is not useful." and hang up. Sad and I wish it didn't have to be that way. Take care!
I feel like I'll always have some love for my H (WH). I mean he was in my life since I was a teenager. And someday I hope my love for him doesn't hurt my heart.
What hurts my heart is that I don't think he has any love for me. Not even a little. Actually at times I don't think he feels at all. How sad.
I have been praticing the 15 minute intervals because I wanted to text him that our DD's made it to the concert that they were traveling to. It's been over an hour.
CJ did you ever have contact with the OW? I been composing a letter in my head and on paper that I would like to give her. Actually mail her. Maybe I'll just post it here. Maybe make a new thread for lettters to OW.
Instead of writing a letter to the OW, why not do something useful like cleaning your toilets? The OW doesn't care about you or your family. That much is obvious. She has no shame or morals or she wouldn't be in the situation she is. So what would be the point of contacting her?
I almost spit out my diet pepsi at the computer screen.
My toilets do deserve more thought than she does. Because at least they serve a function in my life. She's just what plops in the toilet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I think what I have a hard time understanding is how a mom could do what she is doing to another womans family. I guess that will always be one of the 7 wonders of us BS's.
Seriously, there are some FWW's here who I admire and care about. But it is mind boggling to me how some women can treat other women. We have BS's here who have a houseful of kids, who are pregnant, who are fighting cancer or other life threatening diseases. It is just beyond my comprehension how these OW can live with themselves and tell themselves it is alright. Makes me grateful that I am a BS.
I also have much respect for FWS's. It's the "F" that makes them so helpful. I had always hoped that my WH would earn an "F".
And I completely agree with you, I would much rather be the BS than a WS. At least we don't have to look at our S's when we earn our"F" and realize the pain we caused.
Yep - don't know how to explain it, but the FWW's here are wonderful, and honorable.
I think most women grow up with a code that you don't poach another woman's hubby. Can't explain how some can forget that.
One time in my life I went out with a married man. I was young, and he had his own place. It turned out that he was separated from his wife, and also had two little girls. We went out with his friends and no one told me. It took 5 months for him to fess up, and when he did, I was gone so fast, he didn't know what hit him.
Too bad that WH don't follow the code also to not sleep with another man's wife.
When the time comes for me to date long after the divorce goes through married men are completely off limits.
I respect that when you found out that you left him. Gotta wonder if he still doing that to who ever he is with? Not that he's even worth that much thought.
Oh, that was years ago. His wife divorced him, and he married again and cheated, and she divorced him, and he married again and cheated, and on and on. He was a cop, and I still have some friends in the department, so have kept up over the years. He never could be faithful, and I was thankful I didn't get hooked up with him.
But I think many men are competitive, and don't look at it the same way. I expect women to have more sense.
You know, you're absolutely right... I believe apathy from the WS hurts me more than her hatred...
I dunno, but after the papers are signed, I still get "what if" thoughts... Like still, I guess I do have some love for the WS deep deep deep down... you don't spend 5 years of your life with someone day in, day out and completely lose all feelings for them... at least not for me. How she could do it I'm still not quite sure... I guess I can attribute it to the fog or aliens eating her brain, whatever LOL!
Men who say women are hard to understand have obviously never met a WS before! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I missed your post completely last night. The blaming of everyone else is getting old. He's even blaming our daughters for thier attitude!
He actually told DD's yesterday at breakfast that someday they would be sorry. Older DD said to him "no Dad someday you will be sorry when your w**re cheats on you and your family is gone"
Smart girls.
Dev,
Always nice to hear from you. Keep moving forward that's what I'm beginning to do now. Not sure if WH will be part of the picture or not. I still have a small flame of hope that he will do a 180 but I beginning to doubt it.
I can't answer the question on the letter, but wanted to say I am glad to see you going back to Plan B. I think it is the best thing for YOU right now.
I know it is hard, but you have to disengage from WS's madness. Time for Still to take care of Still!
This is his chose...you have no control and I understand that's hard for you, but he is doing this to himself...
You need to practice some loving detachment here...heck, or even indifference right now...
His actions have spoken...he will have to make amends to them someday...
I understand that you are hurt by this too, as a mom you want to protect those kids and do everything that you can but they are practical grown and they can handle their own stuff!
Do not enable and mind your own business...this is not something that you need to get in the middle of...this is b/t him and them, individually!
Keep your nose clean, esare the drama from your life, that's what Plan B is for!
I know it's his choice. It is just hard for me to get through this thick head of mine that he doesn't care. I'm still praying for him (and our marriage). Although this is in God's hands.
Otherwise I think I'm doing okay. I just keep wondering when the emptiness and hurt go away, or does it ever go away?
Truthfully I am so tired of sleeping alone... It's almost been a year now that he hasn't been home. Longer for any affection. I feel at times that I may never feel a man hug or kiss me again. Need to get off this train of thought starting to tear up.
Look in the mirror, think of how much you have learned, how much you have GROWN, how much you have changed for the better and say to your reflection, 'You Are a Goddess! You will find the Love and Affection you so richly deserve, and it will be someone Worthy of You!'
Because THAT is the truth! Maybe WS will turn out to be THAT guy, maybe it will be another. The important thing for you to remember is that the bar has been raised in order for any man to qualify to be worthy of YOUR love, time, attention, and effort!
I suggest that you read on acceptance and acceptance that your STBX is not going to change...he is what he is and yes, I understnad how hard that is to accept...
I struggled witht he same thoughts...
You said never...when we use the word never we are living from our inner child...same things with always...can you see how that strongly effects your thinking? It did mine...
I have to ask myself...will that REALLY happen...never...always...not the case when we think about it...
This is just a little way that YOU can keep yourself from abusing yourself...and you are, just like I was...
You are living in the apst and not being present, can you come back to today? How is today going for you? What are you doing right this minute? How can YOu change the day?
Still, you are not going to be alone...you are a talents, intelligence woman...and you have plenty of opportunities to meet people where you are...
I would like for you to read on being willing...pray that God helps you to be willing to be willing...to be willing to open your mind...
Should you allow yourself and you are the only one stopping this from happening...should you allow yourself to think of the wonderful possibilities that life is holding for you, you may just see that one door does NOT close without God opening another!
I think change in attitude would be good for you too!
BTW, when was the last time that you went to a meeting? HUH?
Supporting you the best that I can! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
Right now at this moment I'm sitting here with tears spilling down my face. You guys are beautiful. I'm not sure what just hit me today.
Maybe it was this morning when my parents stopped by and we went out to lunch, DD17 was showing them her scrapbook that she made in school. It had her on her brthday... pictures of WH, her OS and me holding her the day she was born. Pictures of family stuff. Him and DS when DS was jsut learning to skate. A family vacation when I happened to break a bone in both feet. I think that's what got me in this funk remembering that we did have good times.
Rin believe it or not I went to a meeting last night. Happened to see one of the ladies at church on Sunday and in line for communion she stopped and gave me a hug. I was okay for the most part last night. Just knowing I can only control me... which I think is the hardest thing for me right now. I guess I was a very controlling person.
So right now I'm done with my pity party for one. Thanks guys for knocking me out of it.
My bar has been raised although at fleeting moments I still for one second think I just want him back even like he is. But it is only for a moment.
Hey, I completely understand and I believe that was what got you to this point today...
I found that grieving the illusion that I thought I had was the hardest thing to do...sometimes I still do, but it's better today!
Congrads on the meeting!
I was trying to think about the part you said about you being very controlling and trying to apply that to myself...I really need to think about that some...
Because my first thought was to turn that around and explain why we had to be controlling...example a lack of them not doing their part...but I think that I have to accept that if I did that I would blaming them and not accepting my stuff...
I was controlling...plain and simply, and the reason I was I guess doesn't really matter...
Perhaps we can explore that together...LMAO! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Two controlling but yet once weins exploring why we were controlling but at the same time couldn't stand up for ourselves...so funny!
At least to me! LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I'm sorry if I applied you to my sitch and it didn't fit...
Our problem was that I think we were both very controling.... but of different things.
I was trying to control his feelings for me near the end... hanging on for any crumb he sent my way. Not standing up for myself relaying that I deserved better then crumbs because if I did he just took the crumbs away. Sad.
You know I was just thinking back in 97' I went to a IC and I remember her telling me that it appeared that I have control on the surface but that POWS really had the control...
There is still a part of me that wants to control this situation. That wants him to see the hurt he is spreading. But I have no control over him or his actions.
AH, seems like you handed him over to God once, and now you have taken him back...
And that's where the acceptance comes in...accepting that he will not see until he is ready...
Oh, that's was a huge struggle for me...hoping that he hit bottom and wanting to "HELP" him hit bottom, so that we could put our lives back together, but truth is I can't wait on his bottom...i have my own life to live...
You see me so well. Yes i keep handing him over to God and then taking him right back. Silly, look I'm even trying to control God <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
How long did it take you to get to the place where you are at. It amazes me how you have hit it right on the nail where I am. Sometimes I wonder if I'll ever get there at all.
I don't know how long it took me to get there...I can say that it wasn't to long ago that I was there...on my present thread...i don't really know how I got over it...
I think CJ wrote me about it...perhaps a month ago...maybe not that long...
I just know that he's NOT going to change...no matter what I do or what I say...I just accepted that! NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING I DID!
I'll try to see if I can about the page at least, so you can read that!
AH, see I have taped to my desk something that one of the MBers posted to me a long time back...
Here you go!
IT is impossible to amke another person: 1. Be happy or be fulfilled, become angry, change, succedd or fail.
2. Love you, want you, need you, miss you, be glad to see you, or love, want, need, miss, or be glad to see someone else.
3. Trust you.
4. See, feel, or think in a certain manner for an enduring period. Most people are willing to "sell out" their minds ideas and dreams for sake of romanance, but this does not usually last for very long.
5. See the light, or get some sense into thier heads.
6.Lose or gain weight, save or spend money, want or not want sex.
7. use, or stop using drugs, alcohol, amd cigarettes or bad language...
I have looked at this for at least the last year, the words are starting to fade off the paper...I think it was De-leana????
Both of us trying to understand how someone can just walk away from the people who love them.
She cried when talking about how WH says he's happy and doesn't show any remorse. Still blaming me. Saying I wasn't perfect... she told him at least mom is still there for us. She's trying to understand how the things she and her sister told him seem to have no effect on him. I tried to explain it's like an addiction.
I am very fortunate that my kids can talk to me and share thier pain. Because when they try to share thier pain with thier dad it means nothing to him. I have a hard time understanding that. How can you look at your own flesh and blood when they are crying and only think of yourself?
I know I shouldn't feel guilty... but I do. I think is there something else I could do to get through to him? It's hard for me to accept that he has changed and unfortunately it's for the worse. I want to scream at him look at what you're losing.... 2 girls who use to think the world of you.
Today I'm diappointed in God... how long are we suppose to go through this pain? Why does it seem WH gets what he wants and it doesn't matter what we need and want. Why isn't WH feeling any pain?
All I know is the love my children and I have for each other will get us through all of this. I'm just tired and would like to have our family whole again.
Do you believe that God has a plan for us, even WH? Do you trust that God will provide for you and your girls?
Do you have faith that all of our suffering makes us stronger and this IS a reason for it, even though WE may not see it?
I was VERY angry with STBX and God at one point and CJ said yes, I had a right to be mad with STBX...but I was really mad with myself for allowing everything to happen...like I had control over it...
She was right, I was angry with myself...questioned why I didn't see this or why I didn't see that...truth was I was in that relationship for reasons unknown to me...God put me there, and I have learned some great lessons...I have two beautiful boys, and I don't know if one of they will have the cure for cancer one day...
or they will do something great...that COULD be my reason...I don't know that, but I have to believe that it was for good and not for bad...
I have always beleived that people come into our lives for a reason and when we have gained whatever it is that we need to then they leave...go about their way, pass on, whatever...
Do you believe that everything happens for a reason?
What are your beliefs, get in touch with them...
I understand where you are and it's okay, just don't get stuck there...
Good for you, the valley seems deep when we are in it, but when we get to the other side and look back it doesn't appear as deep as we thought it was when we were there!
You'll get there...our plan is not always his plan...he has better for you...
You'll be okay! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Honey I am right there with you. Am using what Mimi posted on Sis's thread and the great stuff I have been getting from INeed on my thread to keep me going. Ck those out,,I think it will help you, too!
I think I have finally listened to God. I'm ready for this marriage to be over. The love is gone on both sides. Not that WH even cares... not my problem anymore.
I think I'm in the FU state.
Found out a couple of days ago that WH actually told my kids that cheating isn't wrong. That I wasn't perfect (great excuse for an A). Ready to send the ho a thank you note. She can have the man... at this point he has no redeemable qualities. Tonight was just the icing on the cake.
This is his weekend with our son and it's my weekend to work. At DS hockey game he asked about where DS was going tonight. I said with you it's your weekend. I'll take him Sunday Mon And Tues then you have the rest of the week for your vacation with him. Also told him I was going to a family friends sons graduation paerty when I got out of work on Sat. He said I'm going out of town Sat night. I said it's your weekend.... but I'll be out of town.
I did a big DJ texted him.... Guess ur ho comes b4 ur kids again. I'll take DS bcause my kids come first. Ready for the 2 X4's.
I have decided that this man is not one I want in my life.... if he can actually tell his kids that cheating isn't wrong. All he cares about is himself and it's been that way too long for me.
I'm ready to begin my new life... one with my kids and me. And maybe someday a man who wants my love and will love me will come into my life if that's what God has planned for me. I just know God does not want a man who is like my WH in my life. My kids have told me that he was abusive (verbally) when I wasn't around. All he did was yell at them, And actually threw our dog across the kitchen when I wasn't there. I wish I knew this was going on sooner. Older DD also said if I wanted her too she would tell the judge that. Told her I don't want to put her through that.
I finally came to realise it wasn't WH that I was mourning it was my idea of marriage. Yes it still hurts but it will get better.
I not proud of myself for what I texted WH but I'm tired of the way he treats me and my kids.
I have let go of WH and his chaois (sp). I haven't driven by MOW's house in 3 days. That is good for me. I don't care about them anymore.
On Saturday morning when WH was picking up DD to bring her to train station for concert I was in bathroom just out of the shower (towel wrapped around me) he kocked and asked if i was covered and if he could come in. I said yes he asked me what my problem was? (blaming me). I texted him that morning telling him he will be thrilled the door has just slammed shut. He wasn't worth my love and I don't want his kind of love and they deserved each other. I told him I was tired of him hurting me and the kids. That it finally sunk in that he doesn't care. That even with his daughters crying to him he still tells them they should be happy for him. To tell them that cheating isn't wrong blows my mind. That he doesn't see the pain he has caused. He told me I don't know how he feels. Tokd him I don't care how he feels anymore he's not the type of man I want in my life. I'm sure nothing sank in but I don't care anymore I felt better after and having my say allowed me to finally let go.
Now the focus is on me and my children and God where it should of been all along. No more wondering about him and his ho. I don't care anymore and it feels great. I don't want him back.
I am looking forward to my new life without him. My friends are happy for me and said "Now how do we keep you in this place?" I have been here for 3 days now a record for me.
I pray everyday to God to keep me in His arms because I know that's how I got here and the only way I will stay there.
Still saying prayers for everyone else also that God brings them peace and allows them to let His Will be done.
It was a mini FU without actually saying FU. It was what "I" needed to do. Maybe pretty selfish on my part.... but I guess it's okay to be selfish occasionally WH certainly does it frequently.
I have been checking out the inspirations from INH on your thread. Just don't have much to add so I read and gather strength. I truley believe that through her God is speaking to all of us and I'm finally listening.
I will still pray for WH, but my prayers are now for his healing his relationship with his daughters.
Still
(((Bugs))) thanks for the cheerleading you have helped me immensely.
Whoa, Still, that is a complete 180 for you. You sound confident in your choice, unwavering. You will need this confidence in the months to come. I think we all hit a wall, and lose it, have no more patience for the short sighted, ill mannered wayward behavior.
You've been through the ringer with this man; he's been wayward for a mighty long time, and never reached for recovery. It's easy to rebound back to wayward behavior when you never eradicate it in the first place.
I had wondered so often how long you were going to be able to continue in this fashion without either breaking down or breaking out. You are more than willing to recover, so recovery yourself, and the happiness will follow, for you will earn it. You have earned the happiness you have now, so enjoy it.
I would say, be sure to talk to your kids about WHY you did what you did and why you choose to move on now. They need to understand that you were doing all that you could for the marriage, and that marriage is not to be entered with the idea that you can just leave when things get tough.
Otherwise, I'd say that I am happy that you have found peace.
Thank-you for the encouragement. I do feel very confident in my choice. It was a long time coming. You are right I couldn't keep on the path I was going.... I don't know if some others situations were making me feel like I shouldn't give up. That marriage is worth fighting for. I fought for my marriage for going on 6 years and was doing it all by myself. I do agree that I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown, wanting the idea of what a happy marriage should be. WH needs help he is sick in his mind and heart.
My kids are thrilled for me.... thay saw the difference immediately. They know I fought the battle that at this time is unwinable. They know why I wanted to save my marriage.... because I loved thier dad and made a commitment to him. And they understand why I'm giving up, they don't want thier dad back in our house. Life is much more peaceful and calm. Not much yelling... only when we are PMSing with three woman that can be most of the month <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I do hope this attitude continues... not to say the rollercoaster ride won;t go away but the dips may not make me as sick. The day we go before the judge will still be difficult because I did want to save it so bad. Not all marriages are meant to be saved. My kids and I will have a more emotionally healthy life than WS that's for sure.