I have seen several recommendations on this forum to employ the use of a site called cheatersville. I am wondering if someone could give me some insight on how this might be considered a guard? I am a wayward wife whose husband put my pic and story on this site and I fail to see it's usefulness in keeping me in line. It seems to be in place just to humiliate the wayward spouse (which it did). Would all of you reccomend showing this site to children and parents? How about employers? I understand other things but this seems like it is simply a way for the spouse to seek revenge. Since the wayward spouse may be struggling with the decision to work at the marriage it seems rather counter productive. Waywards may also struggle with depression and I think it could be very damaging as it was in my case. Any thoughts...

WE view exposure as a very therapeutic step and view adultery and lies as "damaging." Exposure often helps the wayward spouse see the reality of their cruel acts. The more people who know the more people to hold that person accountable and give support to the victims of the wayward: spouse and children. It also alerts others so they can watch their own marriages around the cheater, so in many ways it is a public service to others.

The advice to expose on cheaterville is given to betrayed spouses to use on the AFFAIR PARTNER, not the spouse. [although sometimes it is necessary to put a spouse on cheaterville] IT is very effective in running the OP off.

In general, exposure is a very effective way to kill an affair and wake up the wayward spouse. And yes, affairs should be exposed to children, parents, and employers. Exposure is one of the most therapeutic steps in saving a marriage after an affair. If that runs a wayward off, then the marriage wasn't going to be saved anyway.

Adultery and lies are damaging. Exposure is a consequence of an affair. It is a job hazard of having an affair.

Dr Harley discussed such exposure websites on his radio show and here is a thread discussing that show: http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2782074&page=1

It was a great show!

ML was too easy on you! Affair privacy is not an entitlement, and WSs are not victims. Your complaints about exposure sites are duly noted and very easily dismissed. I can sympathize with your plight - it must be really tough to face the fact that your selfish actions have wrecked the lives of those you have vowed to care for. You see, this isn't all just about you. You need to consider your victims as well. When you are clear of the fog, you will see things more clearly.

If you think the depression a wayward may be feeling is intense......I will tell you.....being the betrayed spouse is magnified in intensity.

Betraying a spouse is the cruelest act that there is.

It is breaking a sacred trust.

If a betrayed spouse uses cheaterville, that is understandable.

Your sordid secret being exposed is the least of your problems and of your own creation. You created the exposed situation. You.

Would you like professionally backed sound marital advice on how to turn your life and possibly your marriage around by employing the Basic Concepts that Dr. Willard Harley has been implementing for multiple decades with fantastic success?

Several of the most acute and in tune posters on this site are Former Wayward Spouses themselves and have improved their own Reall Marriages exponentially since being tutored on The Marriage Builders Program.

It will take courage in the face of difficult adversities arising, especially when and if you
finally realize how much pain you have caused to your Spouse and any other Family Members.

Are you willing to try to improve yourself?

LTL

Exposure is one thing (which he had already accomplished) but that site is despicable daytime tv. So I should show my children and my parents the things he is willing to post about me on line for the world to see. I would never do that because for our entire marriage I have protected his crappy behavior from everyone who loves him. It exposes the cheaters name to the "quality" people who peruse this site. Anyone can now "find" the cheater. What a crock. I was just starting to feel hopeful that we could work things out and now I feel like everything we have accomplished was not real. He says he forgives me and then tosses me on a disgusting website for my own good.

You are humiliated? Think about him, people may read that and put the blame on him (which is a lot of times the case). Well if he had done this then maybe she wouldn�t have cheated. Or he must be horrible for her to cheat.

He is far more humiliated and hurt and broken down then you can ever imagine. It sounds like you are still being selfish to me��.

So, you were thinking about trying tto work on Your Marriage until your behavior was brought to the forefront?

Now, he shamed you too much???

Be Honest with Yourself. YOU were the one who DID the most atrocious offense to your spouse. Why blame Him or the people who recommend exposure?

When you have one finger pointing the blame elsewhere, the rest of them are pointing ack at you.

You only have control of Your actions. How can You attempt to right this marriage? Do you know how, or would you be willing to learn, even if reluctantly at first?

Read this:

Crazy things coming out of a waywards piehole.....

http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2761888&page=1

Your comments are no different than the Stock Script that nearly every cheating spouses mouth after they are busted. Look for the similarities. Are you any different?

LTL

I don't think spending any time discussing exposure with you is useful. Would you like some help saving your marriage? That is what we can actually help you with even if you never agree with exposure.

Will your husband come here to post? He must be hurting horribly, and we can help him.

MarieMab,

Compared to executing the OM in some horrible fashion, posting your name on an exposure site is getting off lightly.

The posting on the site will fade in importance, your betrayed husband will be pained for the rest of his life, and will never feel secure with you always wondering what you are doing, and are you still in love with the OM.

God Bless
Gamma

Do you fully understand or appreciate the kind of pain you put your spouse through? It is worse than experiencing a death of a close relative, in my opinion.
The pain is deep, long lasting, comes in waves of overwhelming doom. I would bet he even contemplated suicide, probably more than once.

That is real pain and suffering!

I agree bring the husband to the forum for help.

I had already been exposed. I told my family. I told my friends. I was sick. I knew it was the absolute wrong way to get my husbands attention. My husband said he forgave me. We were working to fix things. Then he got on this site and everyone encouraged him to post my name on cheaterville so I wouldn't stray again. The post was ugly and not even accurate. The things he wrote here were ugly and inaccurate. I seriously felt like killing myself. It seems like everything he was telling me was a lie.

MarieMab,

Did your H also post the OM? Was the OM properly exposed?

In spite of what I wrote I would have posted the OM before I posted my W to that site.

From reading on this site I think you might be mistaken most posters encourage posting the OM but rarely the wayward wife.

God Bless
Gamma

I just cannot see how cheaterville is helpful in anyway...so I should show my kids the post so they can be absolutely one hundred percent sure their mother is a whore?

I do not know why he posted about you on this site, you would have to ask him. But I do know that when it happens to you rational thought is sometimes out the window.

And I am sure he has forgiven you or else you would not be on here claiming you are working on your marriage, he would have just kicked you to the curb like he had every right to do.

And i am sorry about your concern for what your kids think but that concern is too little too late, it has already happened no matter what.....

I read the book. I was trying. My husband spends about five hours on this site and suddenly new steps MUST be taken to protect the marriage. There are many forms of betrayal and I realize the cheater gives up all rights to pain but I am literally crushed.

MarieMab. Once you make the choice to have an affair, you also make the choice to take the risk that you will be found out and exposed....by anyone.


Yes you need to tell the kids what you have done and then focus on changing your lifestyle to protect them and your husband from this ever happening again. You need to shut down all the avenues that allowed a secret second life to be possible. That is how you redeem yourself and EARN back trust.


Right now you are focused on your own pain caused by your own actions to have an affair. That will not recover your marriage.

MarieMab,

You wrote, The post was ugly and not even accurate.

In what ways do you feel it was ugly and inaccurate?

Do you understand how horrifying this was for your BH?

**EDIT**

God Bless
Gamma

My children know. My family knows. My friends, his friends, everyone knows. This was exposed over two months ago. After getting on this forum my husband decided more people needed to know. He opened pandoras box and the other man contacted me again. I wanted nothing more than to move forward and now I feel like we are back at square one. Actually behind square one because I am not sure he has been honest about forgiving me and fixing our relationship.

How did OM contact you? Have you not changed all your contact information?

What is your BH's posting name?

Hi MarieMab, when you say that everyone knows, did your husband tell them or did you? Did you let your husband know that the OM contacted you again?

Just HOW was the OM able to contact you at all? With Extraordinary Precautions, you will need to CLOSE ANY GAPS that the OM could contact you through.

MarieMab, can you ask your husband to come here and sign up for a screen name and post to us? If you both do want to recover your M, we will help you both.

Why don't you begin by telling us your story?

Drew3rd

I told everyone except my children and that is because I was out of town. My husband told them.

There are MANY of us here who can confirm that the MB principles are the only reason we were able to recover our own marriages.

I spent a year in resentment and anger over my own FWH's affair until I found MB.


Are you objecting to the steps to protect your marriage?

The only thing I object to is cheaterville and the mob mentality that lead my husband to tell more people (a not completely true version) after the affair was already exposed.

MarieMab, I just went and read your husband's thread.

Could you answer my question please�did you tell your husband that OM has contacted you?

HOW was the OM able to contact you?

Marie, you need to change all of your contact info immediately, as in right this second, so that the OM can never contact you again. That will go far towards showing your husband that you are serious about protecting him from any more pain.

Will you change your cell phone number and give ALL of your passwords to your husband?
Will you get rid of your email account?
Will you delete all social networking accounts? Facebook, etc?

What else can you think of to DO right now so that your husband can KNOW that you will never ever have any form of contact with the OM again?

I did all of that initially but I am in school. I cannot escape on line completely. Unless I want to quit school.

marie, if you and your H are doing the work of recovery and you are daily proving yourself to be transparent, then this whole cheaterville thing can be a blip on the radar. It's done. It seems to me the best thing to do is to get back to work.

Getting exposed is a job hazard of cheating. If you don't like being exposed, you shouldn't do things you don't want exposed. It's real simple. You are not a victim.

I would just add that you volunteered for this; your victims did not. So you won't get any sympathy from us, madam.

You do not need Facebook or any other social network account for school, do you? Are all social network accounts still closed?

Did you change your cell number and give Drew your passwords?

As for email, where there is a will, there is a way. People change emails all of the time. I can think of one easy way to protect your husband going forward. Can you think of anything?

PLEASE answer my questions�how was the OM able to contact you again? And also have you told your husband that there was contact?

Yes melody I heard you the first time. Just burn me at the stake. It will be better for all...

Yes I told my husband and the OM e mailed me. I can be located in my school e mail.

Your self-pity is pathetic.

Most of the people posting to you have successful, recovered marriages. We did not burn our wayward spouses at the stake - we worked with them on the marriage. They did the work required and our marriages are better than ever. That is what we wanted for Drew when he posted here in despair, and it's what we want for you.

Do grow up, Marie.

Yes he has all my pass words and intercepts the mail.

Did you respond to the OM?

I know melody I am a pathetic piece of [censored].

Good that you told your husband, I am relieved to read that.

What does this mean�that you can be located in your school email? Many of us have also been in school, and the general public cannot locate us via our school email. Are you saying that the OM is ALSO in school with you?

Marie, use this energy to do the work you need to do for your husband, your marriage, and yourself. The man you live with needs that from you.

Thanks for all the input you have given me a lot to think about.

Did you respond to OM's email?

I have not slept in a few days so I am going to hit the hay.

Excellent!

So now how about Facebook and any other social network account�is ALL deleted and closed and no new accounts?
Did you change your cell number?

Could you please answer this?

Dr Harley does not recommend 'forgiveness.' He advises instead creating an integrated marriage where you meet each other's needs and follow precautions to make it next to impossible to have an affair. Doesn't this sound great?

What were you doing to 'fix' this? This, by the way, was the single most destructive and painful thing one spouse can do to another. With that in mind, the 'fix' must be pretty life changing don't you think?

Regarding feeling like everything he is telling you is a lie...well, anyone who has lived with a spouse who is cheating knows ALL about feeling like their life is one big lie. I am sure you have told many MANY lies to your husband, yes? Yet you are this upset over him telling you a *lie* that he 'forgave' this most painful offense. Please in your own mind ask yourself if that makes any sense to you.

People will be harsh here. Not because you are the wayward, there are many former WS's that are respected forum members. But because you are still in an affair dog. You are playing the victim card and seemingly not at all concerned for your real victim. You want sweep this under the rug and not do the hard work to 'fix this.' But this forum is to help YOU too, when you are ready.

The just compensation that Dr. Harley talks about is not punishment and is something that is truly enjoyed by both WS and BS. (If it's not truly enjoyed, it's not being done right.)

Dr. Harley's article on "forgive and forget" has been up for years; I don't think his stance on that subject has changed in a long time, if ever. The point is that rather than just "forgiving and forgetting," fixing the marriage will end up making the betrayed spouse and the formerly wayward spouse A LOT happier! In the case of an affair, it is within the offender's power to make up for what they did by restoring the marriage, which will be work for both husband and wife, but will get the wayward spouse what they were wanting out of the marriage all along.

Maybe someone needs to read this. Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

I'm willing to bet the affair is still on. POSOM contacted her angry and now she is doing damage control because of the cheaterville post. In short she lost her cake!

Marie, it hurts because what you did was shameful. No one likes their shameful deeds exposed to the light, where they can be seen by all. It feels better to keep them hidden.

It needed to be done, much like a doctor lacing a wound so it can heal properly.

Arguing about it will get you no where, and in fact it would be counterproductive. The best thing to do now is move forward. On that note, what are the two of you doing to recover the marriage?

This needs to be answered.

You did respond to OM, didn't you.
Is talking to him worth throwing your family away?

After rereading this forum I realize how silly it was for me to ask my original question. The bottom line is that dr. Harley cannot restore the relationship with my husband. Only god and his son give us the template for the love, grace and mercy necessary for two deeply flawed individuals to spend a lifetime together. My husband has been hurt by my actions. I have been hurt by my husband. Christ did nothing but live a perfect life and he carried the weight for all. I wish all of you the best, even you Melody, but I think my time, energy and emotions would be out to better use by working on my relationship with the creator. I believe by doing that the rest will fall right in line. God bless.
**EDIT**

Translation: You guys have figured me out and I am upset because my cake will be taken from me. I like the status quo of two men feeling my emotional needs and it's too much work to do what is right and I want to continue doing wrong because God told me to. POSOM is a good guy you all just don't understand how evil my husband is he's abusive blah, blah, blah.

Now I will give my poor BH ultimatums so he will stop using marriage builders because it's hurting me to see the consequences of my bad decisions and forget about my BH. It's all about ME ME ME!

Ma'am,

You are correct that we need to live lives pleasing to God.
Boundaries, such as those taught by Dr. Harley as "extraordinary precautions" help us do that.

You have an attitude of entitlement (such as "I've been hurt by my husbands actions") that will not be pleasing to God.
The Bible says that God hates liars and adulterers.
You purposely lied to your husband to carry on an affair and then got mad because he exposed it.

If you want to get serious about being pleasing to God and having a God centered marriage then it time to stop playing games with God, your husband and your affair partner.

Marie, making amends to your husband is a very important first step as a Christian. The bottom line is that Dr. Harley is a gifted and blessed psychologist who has restored thousands of marriages in his 40 year career. While that is a noble endeavor to restore your relationship with God, He also expects you to restore your marriage from the damage of your affair. Sweeping your affair under the rug is will not restore your marriage. God honors marriage, keep that in mind.



A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion. Proverbs 18:2

Marie, how do you know God is not providing by bringing you and your husband to this site?

God provides you with a means to get food, but does it magically appear in your mouth? No. God provides us with abilities, and a job to make the money to buy the food, legs to get us to the store, hands to put the food in our mouth. Just as God will provide you with the means to RESTORE YOUR MARRIAGE. He will not magically *poof* restore it and make you whole again, he will expect a little bit of effort out of you too, don't you think?

Dr. Harley cannot restore ANY of our marriages. He can provide the expert advice and we ourselves can choose whether to take it and have a great marriage or not. WE restore our marriages by doing the work. The work is creating a marriage that is free from anger and disrespect, and is one of loving extraordinary care. Does this not sound like the kind of marriage God would want you to work towards?

I believe God provided all the wisdom and guidance we need through his scripture. My husband and I have been searching for answers to our pain in the wrong places. I am happy Dr. Harley worked so well for all of you and portions of his information have been helpful to my husband and I but this forum is really destructive. We both have real people in our lives to hold us accountable. People who love both of us. Thank you for all your input.

Marie... See my quote in my sig. God WANTS your fruitful deeds exposed to the light.

Btw, this place IS christian based.

MNG

I am one of those who is convinced that Dr. Harley has a call from the Lord to save marriages. I was led here by the Spirit at my time of crisis, and Marriage Builders was the framework by which God restored our marriage. So, if you are sincere in your desire to respond to the will of God, then don't ignore what you can learn here.

It is very telling that you refuse to answer questions about OM, and you turn and run when we press you to answer.

Very, very telling.

To conclude that solid MB advice is destructive is not listening to God. It is foggy and wayward. God wants your marriage restored, and we would not be serving as God's messengers if we left you in your sin.

Then do not fight against his scripture:
This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God. John 3:19-21

Your AFFAIR was destructive. Not this forum. But you can keep playing the victim, Drew is mean and we are not real people who care, we are just a destructive group operating under mob mentality.

Good luck with your plan.

Marie,

I am sorry you feel this place is so horrible. I guess you thought that we were going to feel sorry for you.

Like I said before it might not be nice that he did that but you truly have no reason to be so upset, I mean you were a cheater and you have no idea what that pain does to a betrayed spouse.

But now BOTH of you should try to put the affair behind you and move forward on fixing your marriage and part of that is the embarrassment you feel over the affair. I would actually think worse of you if you were not embarrassed by what happened.

This website did wonders for me but it may not be the place for the wayward spouse if they cannot take the heat because you will get called out.

I know that things will not change if you do NOTHING to change things.......

Marie has left the building...

And will now use the "bullying" she received her to discredit Marriage Builders and demand that her husband give up this resource.

Can see right through her...

The other choice would have been to humble herself and she is not willing to do that. She still feels entitled to her affair because of whatever perceived injuries her husband inflicted.

She doesn't get it.

And she's still in contact with OM.

I am leaving the building but I would never discredit the good work Dr. Harley does. If my husband wants to get on here that is fine with me. My only problem with the whole process is the cheaterville site. I just fail to see its usefulness. Exposure is necessary but exposure to those who care about those involved seems much more productive than a cheap disgusting website. I know you all think I am just feeling sorry for myself but that website sent an email to my seventeen year old. After seeing the unbelievable change in my husband she had to read disgusting things about her mother written by her dad. How do you think they made her feel? I fully admit he would have never had to do it if I had been the wife and mother they deserve but part of being a parent is protecting your children. Believe it or not my children love me too. They were devastated to see that stuff in print. Obviously I should have never started this whole post.

You all can rest easy I am not in contact with the other man. I am just going to take a little different approach. Work on my relationship with the amazing one who made me, which in turn will heal the relationship with the one I married. This may not work for everyone but I feel confident in my decision.

Your feelings have lied to you before.
I wouldn't trust them if I were you.

You are so right but I know god is faithful and if I had been living a life for god originally I would have never gotten involved in sin. So I can't believe I am wrong about it.

Your 17 year old daughter deserves to know the truth about what has happened to her family. You are not protecting her by keeping her in the dark, you are protecting yourself.

She is not devastated by the fact that she was told. She is devastated because of what you did. YOU caused the pain, not your husband, not cheaterville, and certainly not marriage builders. Own it.

The Bible tells us to "Guard your hearts diligently for out of it comes the issues of life"

Feelings and beliefs are not going to keep you from doing it again. Many, MANY waywards feel sorrow and regret for what they have done, then go on to have another affair.

You must have extraordinary precautions in place to keep it from happening again. It's going to take more than feelings, or even faith in God.

Repentance requires action.

If you are serious about ending your affair the first step is to write this letter and give it to your husband to mail to your affair partner:

Yikes.

If your BH is reading, I would say to him, be very careful. These are the words of a person who would prefer to search for an option that makes them feel better about themselves vs put work into the marriage.

We have seen this type of deviation before and it never bodes well for the M.

I have done all this. I am really going to sign off now and not look at this again. I keep getting sucked in. I really only owe anything to those I care for.

If you have done all this, then why are you running?

God provided this program as a means to heal broken marriages. He is not going to do the work for you, against your will. If you refuse to follow the steps laid out by Marriage Builders, then there is nothing God can do. He won't force you to do the work against your will.

You have utterly no reason to "feel confident" in your decision to do nothing, ie "take a different approach". You are the person who wrecked her marriage after all. Your "approach" is do nothing to recover your marriage.

As far as your daughter getting an email from cheaterville, that is 100% your fault. It is not the fault of your husband or cheaterville that you decided to have an affair.

Drew, a special message to you. It would be a huge mistake to allow a self serving, selfish, fogged out wayward dictate the terms of your recovery. Her "approach" is to ignore the problem by sweeping it under the rug. She is the last person who is qualified to determine what is necessary to save your marriage. She has no earthly idea how to save a marriage; she only knows to destroy.

Marriages that don't recover usually experience repeat affairs. As foggy and wayward as your wife is, I predict she will have repeat affairs if you don't turn this around.

Dr. Harley frequently cites one of the first infidelity cases he ever dealt with, between the pastor of his church and the choir director. Both were convinced that God wanted them to leave their spouses for each other, and quoted scripture to back up their position. They claimed to be laying it all in God's hands, too.

Faith in God is no insurance against infidelity. You might have success gaslighting Drew3rd with this approach, but we are not fooled.

Ok Marie I know that you have been slammed but you are the one who came here. So now that you know we are really not here to totally run you in to the ground just part way maybe you can take some advice.

So yes I am sure it hurt that your daughter received the e-mail but she really did need to hear it (all of it) even though it should have came from you.

I remember with me even though my kids knew, the single OW kept trying to call my H when he was sick and not at work, I intercepted the calls because he was in the hospital so one night she was drunk and called my house, the first time I answered and eventually she said "well I slept with your H didn't I" only not so nicely. The next call was intercepted by our then almost 17 year old son and she thought it was my H and I am not sure what said to him but he just defended me and told her not to call back. Afterwards when he spoke to his dad he said "Dad you really had sex with that other lady?"

So what I am trying to say is that even though your daughter "knew" she probably didn't "know" and it is only right that everyone "know" what happened to get it done and over with.

How did that website know your daughter's email address?

I would point out that Marie came here to slam this board. Not the other way around. The only person that ran Marie into the ground was Marie, by virtue of her own poor choices. No one here is going to validate a selfish, self centered wayward when they are being a wayward. And this person is very, very fogged out.

I've never checked out the site myself, in spite of being someone who strongly believes in exposure. Most people would not bother going there.

It's main purpose is to upset the entitled views of waywards who believe they have the right to privacy curtains while they knife their loved ones in brutal fashion. Like you did.

So now you are upset you don't have the privacy to do that any more. You're upset that you didn't consider your online reputation and employment prospects before you set fire to your family's happiness prospects. Tough.

Not many people online are actually very interested in what you did; though I am sure the people who know your husband are grieved for him.

You are more interested in this site than anybody else.

Also, if you have told your 17 yo the truth of your actions, no site can usurp your confession. Since you're so upset I don't think there was any confession. Not one that accepted 100 pc fault

I suggest you start being more honest about your marriage wrecking tendencies. No matter what 'crappy behaviour' you say your H put you through, you put him through an affair.

The shame isn't going anywhere and since you volunteered for it, I suggest you learn to live with it.

I have another question... If this site is supposed to help cheaters as well how is that accomplished if the cheater is just constantly slammed?

You guys are the west borough baptist church of SAA.

You are not being slammed.

Did you write that No Contact letter for your husband to mail?

I did not write on this board to slam anyone I simply wanted to ask how the cheaterville site was helpful. Not one person I has answered my question. I have heard about every issue that may or may not pertain to our situation but not one answer on how the cheaterville site protects the betrayed spouse. Good night everyone!

There is simply no reason to debate exposure with you, Marie.

Did you write that letter?

Marie,

When exactly was your last contact with the OM? Have you and he talked since the affair was exposed?

AM

I wrote a letter months ago long before I read SAA. I have been exposed. Anyone have anything for recovery??????

What was in the letter? Did you and OM have contact after the letter?

My H and I are in a recovered marriage. We both believe that had we not learned and followed the MB program and principles that we would have divorced. Instead, we love each other more and more with time.

Once the affair is over and there is no contact between the affair partners, attention can be directly towards marital recovery. The problem is that your previous posts have not been convincing that your affair has ended.

AM

Did your husband read the letter before it was sent?

Did you listen to the clips of Dr. Harley talking about these sites? That answers your questions.

You are not a victim, dear. Nothing said on this thread is as vicious and cruel as what you did to your husband and your children. What you did was as traumatic as physical assault or rape.

Marie, since you seem to be referencing God in your post, I'm going to share my opinion. I know that I am biased because this is from the BS point of view.

But here is what I think, wholeheartedly, 15 months out from D-Day�

Prior to an affair, the BS trusts with all of their heart. They do lots of things wrong of course to contribute to the state of the marriage, but one thing that they FEEL is constant is that their spouse has their back and would never do anything to purposely hurt them.

I don't think that I am describing well enough how much of a total BOND that there is. An absolute CERTAINTY that it is till death do you part, and after.

The moment that you consummated your affair, that BOND frayed and split into a million pieces.

Your husband did not KNOW that it had split, but I promise you that he DID know that something was different. And now, chances are, he is replaying those mind tapes in his head. Over and over. He is going to have to live with that for the rest of his life.

YOU knew that it had split, and you CHOSE not to tell him the truth about his own life because you selfishly enjoyed your new cake.

Everyone gets it Marie. We are ALL sinners. All that we are asking for is a starting point of truth.

Do you WANT recovery? If so, then shoving it under the rug and expecting your husband to get over it already ISN'T GOING TO WORK.

Instead, rebuilding that BOND is what will do it (with God as the Rock and the 3rd strand in your M from here on out). Marriage Builders really does work perfectly with that goal.

You can start by truly become humble and loving towards your husband. 1 Corinthians 13:4-8

Which of the following has been done? What is left to do?

Checklist for How Affairs Should End

_____The unfaithful spouse should reveal information about the affair to the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should make a commitment to the betrayed spouse to never see or talk to the lover OP again.

_____The unfaithful spouse should write a letter to the lover OP ending the relationship and send it with the approval of the betrayed spouse.

_____The unfaithful spouse should take extraordinary precautions to guarantee total separation from the lover OP:

_____Block potential communication with the lover OP (change e-mail address and home and cell phone numbers, and close all social networking accounts; have voice messages and mail monitored by the betrayed spouse).

_____Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers).

_____Account for money (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a complete account of all money spent).

_____Spend leisure time together.

_____Change jobs and relocate if necessary.

_____Avoid overnight separation.

_____Allow technical accountability.

_____ Expose affair to family members, clergy, and/or friends.

This is a piece of advice I often offer:
Start at the beginning of your thread and re-read each post. As you read, keep a to-do list of the suggestions that are offered to you and a second list of the questions that are asked of you. When you get done, work through the lists.

Recovery can be accomplished by following Dr. Harley's program.

Next, some essential reading material:

How do Affairs Begin?

Anatomy of Adultery

chapter 13 of His Needs, Her Needs

And a video that is essential viewing from someone who can actually help you:
Infidelity: What Every Couple Should Know

After that, the Basic Concepts:

Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts

When signing up for the board, everybody indicates that they have read the Basic Concepts. Did you?

More essential reading: Dr. Harley's Q&A columns on infidelity:

steps to recovering from infidelity

There, a ton of recovery resources have now been provided to you since this post. In addition to the recovery resources that were provided to you before this post. (I'd go back and pick those up, too.)

Also, don't overlook the free Marriage Builders Radio show. More than any other resource, this saved my marriage:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com//graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Send Dr. Harley and his wife an email and they will answer it on the show. Going on the show is basically a free session with Dr. Harley and I highly recommend it. (Been on there twice myself.)

I did. I found the book extremely helpful. The problem is i read it two months after the exposure. We were already working to restore the marriage. My husband spent about 5 hours on one of the forums and decided to post the cheaterville bit. I was crushed. I know I deserved it and perhaps if it was during the exposure I would have expected it but months after it seemed like revenge. Anyway it doesn't matter I am confident that if we use christ's example we will be better than before....

Are you interested in using the resources offered here to help your recovery?

Thanks Markos you have been very helpful. I will read anything that was not in the book.

Did you listen to these clips from Dr. Harley?

Not yet I have spent too much time on this forum but I will over the next few days.

Here's a crucial resource:

The friends and enemies of good converstaion

Enemies of good conversation:
* Making demands - using conversation to get your way
* Being disrespectful - using conversation to force agreement to your way of thinking
* Expressing anger - using conversation to punish each other
* Dwelling on mistakes of the past or present

Can you see how these enemies of good conversation make a conversation unenjoyable for one or both spouses? In particular the rule against dwelling on mistakes of the past or present is one of Dr. Harley's major recommendations for marital recovery. Many a recovery has been sabotaged as a betrayed spouse continually brings up an affair over and over again, sometimes for years. Dr. Harley's recommendation is to provide all information about the affair and then to NEVER TALK ABOUT IT AGAIN (assuming of course that all information was in fact honestly given).

Can you see how agreeing to follow this rule with your husband would be beneficial for your recovery, and would benefit you, personally? I'm sure you do not want him to remind you of this - the biggest mistake of your life, and the most hurtful ever to him and your daughter - over and over again for the rest of your life. In return, of course, you would have to agree to stop dwelling on what you consider to be his mistake of further exposing your affair.

The radio show is hands down the best Marriage Builders resource. You could not possibly do better than to jumpstart your recovery by writing in to the show, and to start listening daily. It's like a marriage class, five days a week.

I'm glad to see you answering questions.

Good and if there are any that you would like me to dig up just let me know. Hearing things from Dr. Harley really helps to understand things clearly.

Good Marie you are still being sucked in! No I mean that, we are happy to have you still with us.

When you are in an affair, you enter into a sort of 'fog' as has been referenced by some posts on your thread. It is a fog of you trying to deceive your own mind into rationalizing your own behavior. Your mind in the fog will of course fight any course of action or advice that does not serve that goal, such as exposure, or advice that it was YOUR CHOICE to have an affair and that you are no victim.

Nobody is slamming you, the Marie that is a beautiful and strong woman of faith, and I'm sure a devoted and loving wife and mother. But we are ALL trying to get through to you, the Marie that is in the fog of entitlement and self centered cake eating. Because without lifting the fog, how will the real Marie emerge?

You are quite right Markos or Dr. Harley is....I was having a difficult time because i was holding on to bitterness of the past. I am trying my best to move forward. I won't bring up the cheaterville thing again.

There's 29 articles in the Q&A section on infidelity that I linked:

Steps to Recover from Infidelity

On the radio show Dr. Harley is constantly commenting on situations that aren't directly addressed in the books.

Very important questions to answer and steps to take. These are straight out of Surviving an Affair. (Prisca is my wife, btw.)

By the way, the radio show repeats every hour, so you can listen to each day's show at any time. It repeats hourly until the next day's show. That's 23 replays for most shows, and 72 hours worth of replays of Friday's show through the weekend. Plenty of time to tune in and your convenience and sit in marriage class with Dr. Harley.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Oh I did read all those. They are very good. Actually I cried through most of them.

Me too!

You can use the free mobile apps to listen to the show on your smartphone. The app lets you pause and rewind, so you won't miss a thing. It's a great way to listen in your car. Just do a search for "marriage builders" in your device's App Store.

Welcome back marie.. Glad you decided to stay. I pray for you and your hubby to have a full recovery of your marriage.

It will be up to you to do much of the heavy lifting but it will be worth it. I promise. Follow he plan here and listen to the good folks. They will not steer you wrong.

MNG

There is something Dr. Harley often says to wayward spouses on the radio show - "If you could have the same feelings for your spouse that you had for your affair partner, would you be interested?" Imagine, all the excitement and fun with absolutely none of the guilt. Who wouldn't be interested?

You see, Marriage Builders is not about denying the need for romance in our lives. It is not about guilt. It is not about establishing a bunch of rules to keep wayward spouses in line and force them to accept lesser relationships with their present spouses. What it is about is building great marriages. In order to survive an affair, a marriage has to be better after the affair than it ever was before. It is typical for somebody in your position to see no hope for such an outcome. But it can happen. It can be done. I know. My wife and I did it. You can too. Let us show you the way.

So please, get Drew3rd back on his thread, and let's get to work helping you guys.

Marie -- it takes courage for a WS to come here seeking help.
I applaud you for that.

The good people here want only to guide you to a recovered marriage!

When you said you cried reading the articles, it gave me hope that you are starting to see...

There's nothing better than earning the "F" as a former wayward!

Thank you for the kind words. I know I came here very defensive because I was so hurt over the cheaterville site but just like my husband is working to restore our marriage I want to do the same. I am sure it was just tough love which I know I deserve but I was running on no sleep no food and I wanted to take my bitterness out somewhere. I apologize for being ugly. I usually not like that.

Will Drew come back and post?

Can you tell us what you're doing to work on recovery?

We are seeing a counsler and spending every moment that we have together. I have tried to make whatever apologies I could and admitted how selfish and horrible I have behaved. My husband is doing all the right things for me. We pray together and talk openly about how our behaviors have hurt each other.

Marie,

Please tell us which things on this list have been accomplished and what progress you are making in those things that are not yet done.

When and how was your last contact with OM? You have been asked this question several times and have not answered. It is very important. Every contact continues the affair and prevents even the tiniest progress towards recovery.

AM

AM

These things can be lovely, but are not a strategic plan towards marital recovery. Actually, seeing a counselor can be more harmful than helpful. It can become a time to just complain about each other's shortcomings and how each of you has hurt the other. What a miserable time! Please address the checklist in the above post.

AM

In addition to armymama's questions please listen to these.
Beware of Bad Counselors

Will Drew come back and post?

I talked to the guy after my husband posted us on cheaterville and contacted his ex girl friend. I have absolutely no feelings left for this man and it was not a "reconnection" or anything of the sort. He was working his own angle which I recognized and I have told my husband the entire thing. I have talked to the ex girlfriend and told her the truth. He will never contact me again because I am not going to do anything to help his sorry cause. I am a nurse I have no option to work day shift at this point but my husband and I text several times a night. I will happily change everything but when I tell you there is no reason to i being totally honest. We do spend all of our time together and he knows where I am 100% of the time. He controls the money so he knows what I spend always.

Marie,

Am I understanding correctly that you contacted the OM about one week ago? You called or emailed him?

Please know that I ask this question because it is important. In our case, my H contacted the OW via email and telephone about 16 months after D-day. THAT act by itself nearly ended our marriage. However, today my H and I are not only still married, but are very much in love.

You have written that you don't see a reason to change "everything". However, to recover a marriage, the conditions that led to the affair must be eliminated. If not, you and your husband are likely to suffer additional affairs - either you again or him in the future.

What things can you do so that you and your husband work the same shifts? In our location, nurses are always in demand and often can find employment working the shifts they desire. Why is that not possible for you?

AM

AM

The OM contacted me. And it was within the week but I told my husband about the entire thing. I understand what you are saying about changing everything but when I tell you the OM has no use for me at this point since I am the only one who has exposed him for the dirtbag he is. I will do it if my husband feels more comfortable but we are two months from exposure and the first contact was to only to attempt to cover his own behind. The job market in the western new york stinks which is what made me travel to begin with. I am in grad school and will finish in the next 18 months which will give me a lot more flexibility.

and to address the concern about our counseling...we see an assistant minister in which we do homework from the bible. There is no complaining or griping involved. It is mostly encouraging us to work on our spiritual walk.

When will you stop working nights?

Have ALL conditions that allowed the affair been eliminated?

Have you changed all contact information? Been tested for STD/I?

That is a door that is left wide open. As long as the OM is free to contact you, then resumption of the affair is likely. If you are serious about ending your affair, then all avenues of contact should be removed. He has already shown you he will contact you, so this makes me question how serious you really are.

Saying you told your husband about contact completely misses the point. If an alcoholic "tells" her spouse she had a drink will she be any less sober? Of course not.

This is a basic EP. Why hasn't this been done?

Okay I will happily change my phone number. I have been tested for STDs months ago. I cannot stop working nights as we have two daughters in college. Trust me I would love to but college will not pay for itself. I should be able to procure new employment in 18 months.

Why are you logged on as your BH?

When will you change all contact information? Why can't you get a day job?

Why can't you get a day job? Most people who have children in college have day jobs.

Babies come at all hours of the day and night melody. Sorry I was talking on my husbands iPad as we were encouraged to both respond.

I don't know what this means.

And you could be the midwife who works the day shift. Surely you're not saying that all midwives work night shift? Who deals with the daytime babies?

I am a labor nurse melody. You talk out both sides of your mouth melody since yesterday I deserved to be on cheaterville and today no one told my husband to do that. Get your story straight.

Oh my word obviously no nurses here. It's a twenty four hour job. You can talk mb I know nursing. Been doing it for twenty years.

You know, folks aren't going to help you if you are snotty, Marie.

We know lots of nurses and they don't work nights. So we know you don't have to work nights either.

The point is that you need to find a job that is compatible with your marriage. You are not forced to be the midwife who works twenty four hours. There are other shift patterns in midwifery and there are other ways of being a midwife than being in the labour ward. The last midwife I saw for my last child did post-natal care with mothers in their homes, and she did a day shift.

We get that the job you do now is a night job. What we are saying is that for your marriage to recover you need to change shifts, or change job.

You know melody there have been some really kind and merciful people on this site but it has never been from you. You are mean spirited and ugly.

You know you come on here accusing the board that we told him to expose you on cheaterville when no one did such that. And now you are being snotty and rude to posters who are trying to help you.

Do you really want help in recovering your marriage?

That is exactly how you sound to me right now, Marie.

Wow. You're being so rude to one of the most knowledgeable posters that we have. Do you really want help?

You sound mean spirited and ugly.

Nope I guess I am done.

And that woman is absolutely not trying to help anyone.

Being rude and snotty does not inspire people to help you. It sure does not make me want to help you. Keep in mind you are here asking for help. We didn't come to you.

So if you want help, you need to show some simple common manners. We don't have to help you, after all. We already saved our own marriages.

Do you have any manners?

Come back when you can show some manners. I don't help mind helping people, but I am not willing to take my time to help someone who is this rude and entitled.

I am going to say one final thing because I came on here to ask about the wisdom of cheaterville. It is very interesting that the person who hacked my husbands post on cheaterville was on today encouraging a bw to look up marriage builder. Do you guys get paid for this???

I see her here trying to help both you and your BH. She's the one that noticed you still hadn't changed your contact information when we had asked you and your BH about that basic EP.

To me she sniffed out continued wayward behaviour. That Melodylane is one sharp lady. Too bad you bite the hand that feeds you.

Nope I think we are better off on our own.

Marie, time to grow up here. Lots of us did shift work - nurses and doctors and police officers. They chose alternate paths (day shifts, different departments, different jobs in the same field). Shift jobs for single people who don't have betrayed spouses sitting up all night wondering what their spouse is up to, and living different lives on shifting schedules.

My husband wasn't wayward!!!

Huh? Someone hacked his post?? What do you mean?

So sez the wayward who is not serious about recovery!!

Let us know when you get serious, Marie. Until then, please cut the bullcrap.

I am not going to discuss my finances with you. We do what we need to to support our family. Obviously we are at an impass. I would recommend the book but this forum is toxic.

You mean where you - not him - gets to call the shots?

Marie you are so unrepentant about just compensation to him. You want to forgive and forget, all while still the door is open for another affair.

I wonder what your kids would prefer, student loans or divorce?

Easy choice....

This, folks, is the post of a wayward who is not serious about saving her marriage.

Yes someone named forest hacked his post and I went on there today and fiorrst was encouraging someone to check out marriage builder. I showed my husband.

He could not take off the cheaterville bit because someone had hacked it named forest.

Why are you complaining about this? How does this help you recover your marriage from your affair?

Why not stop obsessing over cheaterville and start paying attention to your marriage?

Can I ask you melody why I deserved to be on cheaterville and now your telling my husband he should not have some that? That was my original question!!!

I am not obsessing I think it is strange. And kind of twisted.

We've been trying to tell you, but you are being stubborn. Go read his thread NO ONE suggested he post you. We suggested he post OM. You owe this board a huge apology and why don't you ask your BH why he chose to do that?

No it was quite clear yesterday that I got everything I deserved.

Yes, you deserved to be on cheaterville: YOU CHEATED! However, we don't tell spouses to expose their wayward spouse on cheaterville. We tell them to expose the OP on cheaterville.

Your husband was not told to expose you on cheaterville.

Marie, I thought you agreed to stop talking about cheaterville ...

Can we get back to what you need to do you recover your marriage? I posted a checklist to you of things that needed to be done. Can you answer that?

Well, we think having affairs is "kind of twisted!" So I guess we are even, huh?

Shut up about cheaterville already! You had an affair and people found out about it, and now you are ashamed, as you should be!

We did not tell your husband to put your name up there, but he did it anyway, and it doesn't matter. The problem in your marriage isn't cheaterville. The problems in your marriage are your affair and the lifestyle you have both been leading, including your night shifts, that left the door wide open to your having an affair. They also include the fact that OM still has an avenue of contact with you and the fact that you had poor boundaries around men.

Cheaterville did not make you have an affair. The problem in your marriage is not cheaterville. It's time to stop talking about that and talk about how you can rebuild your marriage.

I guess so. Thank you for the kind advice mr nice guy. Lexxxu and mr eureka. You were really helpful.

I have been trying but I have been defeated.

And I did address the questions pages ago no one responded to that....

I don't really know what this means.

You and your husband have brought up cheaterville repeatedly today. Posters here did a good job yesterday and earlier today in steering the thread round to Dr Harley's programme of recovery. They posted a number of links and talked to you about changing your shift pattern and changing your phone number. However, you have gone back to talking about cheaterville over and over again and ended up attacking the forum as "toxic".

You haven't been defeated over recovery plans by anybody here. You have defeated our efforts to help you in recovery by lashing out at posters about cheaterville.

Yes, I did. I asked when will you be changing your number?

I see no response to the check list I posted. I see two other people have posted it, but no response from you.

I would like you to go down the list point by point and answer with a yes or no if the item has been done.

See this is when I responded and asked questions and was ignored.

I'm quoting this EP list because you really need to pay serious attention to this. Look over it carefully and give it some serious thought. Both my wife and I had to leave our jobs, and we moved several states away to secure our recovery. Recovery takes bold steps.

Understand that *everyone* is trying to you here. ML is one of the most caring and knowledgeable posters here. You will find this process very challenging, but you can restore your marriage if you are willing to make the hard choices.

Marie,
I am a former WW, I am also a nurse ~ you must know as do weall how highly in demand nursing is? Are you saying that where you live has zero opportunaties for nurses other than at night?
I worked LDRP for years as well, I couldn't continue with the hours and shift I had so I took a less desirable position in a scope of nursing in not particularly fond of BUT it was essential in saving my marriage.
I know you feel "ganged" up on, but PLEASE listen, PLEASE read!!! The one person you've insulted the most here, is one of the first people to welcome you and your BH.

The important thing is not how you feel about it but when it was and will you take steps to make it impossible in the future. That is really all that matters for recovery.

My personal feeling is that college age kids are capable of paying for college by themselves, if they feel it is worth it.

I never understood the logic of Marie's point that "babies come at all hours of the day and night". By that very logic, she should have no trouble finding a shift that covers the day rather than the night.

If babies only came at night there would only be night jobs on the labour ward. Since they come morning, noon and night there must be morning, noon and night shifts! Pick a different shift!

I think we are all best served to drop that issue and quit dwelling on it, at least if the plan here is to make the affair something that will be dropped and not dwelt on.

I'm reading through here and trying to catch up, but I'm hoping here at some point that you'll answer Prisca's question about which of the steps for ending an affair you have taken. Hopefully I just haven't gotten to it yet.

Have you followed my suggestion about re-reading the thread from the start and making two lists? You wanted recovery help, and have received a lot from absolutely the best.

It's really worth mentioning that the absolute best help you can get on this site is from MelodyLane. The things that are getting you so upset that you don't want to hear? Those are usually the things that are most important for you to hear. It was true for me.

If you truly don't appreciate help from the most experienced and best and most helpful poster on this site, you can always click ignore so you don't have to read her posts. That would probably be better than fighting and arguing with her in front of the rest of us, since most of us think pretty highly of her. Then you could move on to something productive. After all, are you here to recover your marriage, or to straighten out MelodyLane? I promise you she can't be straightened out, but she is beyond a doubt the best coach on this site. Did you ever have a coach who pushed you harder than you thought was necessary, to get you to do more than you thought you were capable of?

How about you ignore her and start answering all of the unanswered questions? It took about two days to get you to answer when last contact was. At this rate most of my seven kids will be grown by the time you are halfway done answering.

Several years ago SugarCane on this site took me to task for being impossible to get answers out of. Boy I'm glad she did! Once I started actually paying attention to the questions people were asking me and the things people were telling me I learned a lot!!

Someone has brought a great saying to this board from Alcoholics Anonymous: "Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth." I love it and it's great advice. And it came from MelodyLane.

Is it truly about being on your own, or is it about winning the fight? Good heavens, Marie. Let it go!

Don't make me post a youtube video of the song from Frozen...

Thanks! What a nice thing to say. Here I thought I was helping. But I see you've ignored my suggestions and are more interested in fighting with forum people than getting help for recovery...

Marie, either go do it on your own if you're sure you can do that, or quit fighting and start listening to someone (even if you aren't willing to listen to everyone). But for the love of Mike, quit fighting and arguing. You are at the biggest crisis point ever for your marriage and all you can do is try to straighten out complete strangers on the internet?

You're not obsessing, but 24 hours after saying this subject was over, you are still talking about it and have yet to answer the checklist for recover from Dr. Harley that was posted above.

I'm kind of OCD myself, and I think I know obsessive when I see it, but I guess I'll try to reserve judgment.

Bilbo, the Ring is still in your pocket. (Apologies if you don't get the reference.)

How much longer are we going to talk about that mistake? Because I'd like to come back when the subject finally is over, for real, and see if there's anything I can do to help recovery, whenever we get past this and can actually get started.

btw, one of the most important things my wife and I had to learn in marital recovery was how to not fight. Do you and your husband fight a lot? I'm kind of wondering since it seems you are very interested in fighting and passing by all the great recovery advice you got. I know the fight is more exciting. Believe me, I get it. I've been that guy. But marital recovery is so much more better.

Trying to what? Trying to stop talking about a particular subject? Who controls what you do - you or other people?

Locus of control - self control - loss of control - an article by the great Marriage Builder Pepperband

Where is your answer to this checklist?

Marie, have you installed the Marriage Builders Radio app yet?

I was so very hopeful when I saw this yesterday and then log in to see what being rehashed over and over again??

Time to put this in the past and move on to the business of recovering your marriage.

Have you considered going on ADs?

Okay so the only things I have not done on the list is change the phone number and get on day shift . My husband and I have been together "engaged" for eight hours today alone. We spend at least 20-30 hours a week together.

My husband will have to get a second job if I change to day shift which would cut into our time together.

You need to find a solution to this problem so you are working the day shift.

We talked about it but I just don't know how. I will turn it over to god. Something may turn up.

Keep in mind that the most important thing is your marriage, not your finances. Prioritize your marriage in first place instead of last place. Dr. Harley explained this to another couple on the private forum:

I know...

Faith Without Works Is Dead.

A very Serious need for the both of you is to POHA, (Policy Of Joint Agreement), an stic agreement to expeditiously arrive at a solution to unify your working schedules so that you both are home and awake together, thriving in enjoying each others UA Quality time together.

LTL

I talked to the guy after my husband posted us on cheaterville and contacted his ex girl friend. I have absolutely no feelings left for this man and it was not a "reconnection" or anything of the sort. He was working his own angle which I recognized and I have told my husband the entire thing. I have talked to the ex girlfriend and told her the truth. He will never contact me again because I am not going to do anything to help his sorry cause. I am a nurse I have no option to work day shift at this point but my husband and I text several times a night. I will happily change everything but when I tell you there is no reason to i being totally honest. We do spend all of our time together and he knows where I am 100% of the time. He controls the money so he knows what I spend always.

This is copied from previous

MarieMab
Member

Registered: 08/19/14
Posts: 63
Okay so the only things I have not done on the list is change the phone number and get on day shift . My husband and I have been together "engaged" for eight hours today alone. We spend at least 20-30 hours a week together.

Sorry. I was using my husbands iPad and forgot it auto logged him

Just spending time together isn't good enough. It was to be "date" time - free of distractions where you are concentrating on meeting each other's emotional needs. Time spent at home is not effective. You need to get out alone together and have a good time.

When it comes to NC, you need to be really proactive. Report everything to you husband - even if you just see the OM on the street by chance. You need to figure out how to eliminate all possibility of encounters. You may feel this isn't really a big problem, but it is. You still have the remanents of the addiction within you that can resurface with contact, and your husband is harmed greatly by any contact.

The other thing is the two of you have to stop talking about the affair with each other. You should answer any remaining questions he has today if you have not already done so, and then the topic is closed. This is really important, because talking about the affair is an enormous love buster for both of you. Your future conversations need to be pleasant and safe.

Thank you for your great advice. The time I am talking bout is time alone and focused on each other. The OM lives in another time zone so there is absolutely no chance I would ever see him.

Why would your BH need to get a second job for your shift change? The shift diff can't be that much???
I know this because I've done it???

I am a travel nurse working a local assignment and I make about twice as much as if I took a regular full time position.

I am in grad school. We have two daughters in college. We have a mountain of debt. We cannot get loans for our daughters college because our credit is so poor. The girls got nearly a full ride in scholarships to go to really great colleges and all we pay in the room and boras but it is still about 14000 a year.

Is it possible for you girls to get part time jobs to help you both with the cost? Or are there any other grants or bursaries they could apply for?
What about taking a regular position and picking up extra shifts? Could your BS pick up extra work that would allow you to stay at home in a regular position?
We (my BH and I) were told when we first came here that spending nights apart (as we had our entire marriage) needed to STOP in order to assist with our recovery, so when my affair ended, I took a huge pay cut, as did my BS ~ we both quit the jobs we had and took a loss over 50k per year, I picked up extra shifts on a schedule that worked for both of us and now (as I posted before) am working in a scope that I don't find particularly interesting BUT it allows us to be home together and it's what needed to be done to save the marriage.

All travel must be eliminated and you must never spend a night away from your husband.

I am seriously not trying to make excuses...my girls both do work study so I think another job would be too much. I understand what you are saying but honestly if I quit my job to work more hours for less money I would resent my husband. He has state farm that requires a lot of time and if he got another job I would never see him. Money issues are truly one of our biggest problems. When I was exposed it was not because I got caught. I told my husband about the affair because I was ready to quit. I did not want to continue the affair or the marriage. I was tired of working away from home while he spent all the money and all the time with my kids. This is absolutely no excuse for my behavior, however after twenty years of asking for change I just decided I would rather be alone. I felt like I was alone all the time anyhow.

WE are more concerned about HIS resentment when your marriage fails because your job is more important than your marriage. His resentment will not go away as long as you continue to place your job over your marriage. Yours will fade once you find another job that complements your marriage.

Anything that comes before your marriage will eventually come BETWEEN you and you have already learned this the hard way.

Simply put, your marriage won't recover unless you a) stop traveling and b) get on the same shifts. If you are serious about recovery you need to make these changes.

My job is not more important than my marriage. I work because I have to work. I have been the steady income for twenty years.

You want me to show you "resentment?" The worst resentment I have ever seen comes when a couple doesn't follow these steps and their marriage does not recover. The resentment of the betrayed spouse grows and grows year after year.

That is the real risk you face.

I am glad to hear you will be finding a job that complements your marriage! This is good news.

So if I am understanding you I should quit my 36 hours at night and work sixty during the day so I can sleep in the same bed with my husband at the same time? Let me tell you after sixty hours a week the only thing that will be happening in that bed will be sleeping.

You understand me right if you understand that you cannot recover your marriage while a) traveling or b) working opposite shifts. However you resolve those issues is up to you.

I will point out that you don't have to do anything. We cannot force you to do anything. HOWEVER, if you want to save your marriage, those are the steps it will take. Take it or leave it; it is all the same to me.

we are working really hard at getting our finances in order and hopefully one day my income will not be so important. I would LOVE it. But short of bankruptcy (and even that does not stop the current expense) I cannot think of another way to do this.

we have no assets to sell. We have downsized. we eat beans and rice. There is absolutely nothing we could cut out. Even if we made our girls attend community college it would cost more than where they attend now. I have looked at everything.

We have looked at everything.

Dr. Harley is brilliant at helping people find creative solutions to such problems. Why not email him and ask his advice? [it is free and he will send you a free book]

Email him at the radio show. You don't have to appear on his show, btw. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4200_radio.html

Same here mrs_cen, my husband had to totally quit his job after his A, and he had been the main breadwinner! He went to work for me at my biz, at a 52% pay cut. And yes, we are also skating on bankruptcy at the moment�BUT we are in recovery!

H has just recently gone back to work, same field like you but totally different job so that he is no where near any customers or females employees.

At first, my husband thought the MB advice was ridiculous. After he totally came out of the fog, he now says that he would never have it any other way.

Recovery is already the most difficult thing that we've ever been through in our lives, and at our age we've been through a lot (deaths, injuries, storms, etc). If my H had not been willing to protect me in the way that he has, I could not have stayed.

I will! That is a great idea!

You could delay your master's program until your daughters have finished school, especially since you still have 18 months to go. That tells me you are not very far along in your own program.

AM

The OM is thousands of miles from me and there is no chance I will ever see or talk to him again. I work in a mostly female environment. My husband has been great about keeping in touch with me (which he never even had a phone before). It is the best option for our financial situation but I will write Dr. Harley and ask what he thinks.

I can get loans for my program for whatever reason. I think because it is an advanced degree. We have no out of pocket cost related to my education and I try to only work on my homework while he is working or I am slow at work so that I am engaged when he is at home.

We will have lots of loans to pay off when I am done but I am hoping to work in an underserved area so they will be repayed by the government.

But you see Marie, if you and Drew follow the steps to recover your M, you will NEVER feel like this again!

The things that we are telling you to do are truly only the beginning steps to affair proof your M. THEN the real hard work begins�you will learn the Policy of Joint Agreement, you will learn to enthusiastically deal with every conflict together, you will never fight again!

My H and I haven't had a fight in at least six months now, and let me tell you it is HEAVEN!

I used to feel like you and always feel alone. But now, when I do ever feel alone, I just need to tell my husband that I have a problem that I need help with�and we POJA ways to help me to feel connected at all times (even when we are physically apart during the day!).

But�you cannot skip those beginning steps. You've mentioned the Bible, so it may be helpful to re-read Matthew 7:24-25. By taking the steps to provide EPs for your M, you are wiping all of the past clean (and protecting your new M), so that now you can build your house on The Rock.

But that does not address the problem. The problem is that your marriage won't recover unless you a) stop traveling and b) start working the same shifts.

Nor will "working in a female environment" or staying in touch with you prevent an affair.

The problem still exists. Hopefully, Dr Harley can help you find creative solutions to solve the problem.

Sorry I talk a lot but by getting my advanced practice degree I will have many more options to be home more. Maybe teaching or working in a clinic.

It's real important to choose a lifestyle that COMPLEMENTS your marriage, instead of one that destroys it.

Your whole lifestyle has destroyed your marriage and that destruction will not stop until you make dramatic changes in your lifestyle.

You can't continue the same lifestyle and expect anything to change. IT won't.

It will take an approach that puts your marriage FIRST and anything that harms your marriage is eliminated. Your marriage is not going to get better by magic. You have to CHANGE your lifestyle.

The question to ask is: how does this help my marriage TODAY?

Your marriage is on life support in the ICU. By the time you get an advanced degree, your marriage will be over.

AMEN!!!!

May I ask what your shifts/rotations are? I was meaning ~ for example in our case instead of working a 12hr night shift, I would work a normal 8 hour one and then pick up an extra 4 wherever coverage was needed.
Believe me I KNOW how difficult it is - my BS and I went through it to, we gave up EVERYTHING! We left jobs, our home, my family, my SON and moved from one end of Canada to the other, we started over with NOTHING but 3 tote bags and 4 boxes.
The end result is we are just into our recovery 16 months and will celebrate our one year "relocation-versary" Sept first.

It helps my marriage today by working toward something that will help my marriage tommorrow. I started traveling because we were drowning financially. My husband encouraged it. I bawled in the car to every assignment but we thought we were doing the right thing for our family. In four years the only time I have been able to take a week off was when my mother died. I have literally worked straight through. all the while praying every time I used my debit card that it would not decline. Every time I would finish an assignment I would say I want to stay home for a week or two and he would always say we couldnt afford it. We have had our house forclosed, our utilities turned off. I am not working out of town because I love it. But as I said I will write Dr. Harley.

I work three 12s at a hospital about an hour and a half from our home. I sleep in the hospital when I have to work several days in a row. I know it is not ideal but that is why I chose to go back to school. So I dont have to travel anymore.

It doesn't benefit your marriage today, though. That is my point. If a person is dying on the operating table, they can't wait around while scientists "work toward" some new cure in the future. The patient will be dead by then. Your marriage won't make it.


While you meant well, it was not the right thing for your family. Your marriage has been destroyed. That is not the right thing for your family.

Marie, there is nothing in your life that can bring you more happiness and good quality of life than a good marriage. Money cannot buy happiness when your marriage is a wreck. A job cannot buy happiness when your marriage is wrecked.

Out of those 3 things, job, money and marriage, the only one that can make you happy and change your quality of life is a great marriage.

When you are happy and stable at home, the rest of your life will follow. Put your marriage FIRST, not last. You can see what happens when you put your marriage LAST.

I absolutely agree and in Dr. Harley's books he talks about needs and one of my needs is financial security. I am not talking about a house or a car. I am talking about the debit card declining or the water getting turned off. but I will write him and see what he thinks.

I saw the question you asked my husband Melody. The way he knows I am not lying is that I am the one who told him about the affair. He did not catch me. I was ready to be done with this marriage. I chose the only thing I knew that was unforgivable. Luckily for me my husband loves me so much he would not give up on us because I was so done.

And though you were working so much and hard due to the stresses of finances....you found time to have an affair vs create a better marriage.

Consider your H your lover and how would you create a life to vastly include him as a priority.

I have admitted fully it was the absolute wrong way to end my marriage. It was selfish and hurtful and I would never do it again.

Can you and Drew do your finances together? If someone is checking the accounts every day, then you will KNOW if you have money in the account (and thus no worry about a debit card declining).

You and Drew are both working full time, so you definitely have enough money for your "four walls". By that I mean enough money to have your basic needs met�food, utilities, clothing and shelter.

Your debts are not more important than your M. What we had to do in our sitch was let the debts go. We ARE paying on them, but we designed our own "minimum" payment based on what WE can afford.

The four walls have to come first. I suspect that you WOULD be able to quit your night work and get a nursing position closer to home for half of the pay, if you and Drew would go over your budget and put your "four walls" first.

If this means that your daughters will have to pay for their own college, or quit and take a year off while they go to work, then that will have to be.

Our adult daughter's condo is now in foreclosure because we had to stop paying her mortgage for her (we had been helping out because she had returned to college).

These circumstances are symptoms of a lack of interdependent behavior in M. In our case, it was from years of independent behavior and not managing our finances TOGETHER. I was like you and I had kept working harder and harder in order to support our family. At one point I truly had been working 14 hours per day, seven days per week. And of course because of that, H and I had no UA time together for years.

THIS is what Melody is talking about when she explained that we need to make a total lifestyle change. This lifestyle is not at all good for our M, and in fact it destroys our M.

That does nothing to prevent repeat contact.

Did you read my response to that up above?

We know what he thinks already. We have told you. We have shown you this. You should put the marriage FIRST and get a career that complements your marriage. That career should NOT be on an opposite shift and should NEVER include nights apart. You should be spending the nights together.

If you want to save your marriage, you must find a job that complements your marriage. Not one that destroys it.

The point in writing Dr Harley is to get his help in finding creative solutions so you can get out of that job and save your marriage.

Do you want to save your marriage?

And no, he does not know if you are lying or not. How would he know this? You spend the nights apart and have plenty of opportunity to talk to the OM.

You know I am going to contact Dr. Harley and stop talking because I cannot get through that I stayed in this marriage out of obedience to God. I was completely ready to be alone. I was not exposed. I exposed myself. we are working so hard to make things right and we loved Dr. Harley's material but no matter what i say it is all about the OM and what a liar I am. So not encouraging.

We can't help you if you spend all your time looking for excuses instead of solutions. Your marriage will not recover if you don't take the advice. PERIOD.

So I have to question your sincerity about saving your marriage when I see the endless excuses. Excuses won't save your marriage. I don't really care if you save it or not; but do you care? If you care, then you need to start looking for solutions.

I am not encouraged at all when I see you demanding unwarranted trust and manufacturing endless excuses about why you can't work this program. If you want to be trusted, you have to earn it. Your husband should not trust you. This is why it is important to completely affair proof your marriage.

Demanding blind trust will not achieve that. Trust is not an entitlement for entitled wayward wives. You want trust, then EARN it.

In order for Dr Harley's program to work, you have to follow the steps. You can't cut corners and end up with a recovered marriage. It just doesn't work that way.

Marriage Builders is not something you can cherry pick - it doesn't work unless you take all the steps:

here

I told my husband about my affair, too.
I still continued to lie for quite some time.
He would be foolish to trust you for that reason alone.

A brief moment of honesty is no insurance against continued contact. That is why extraordinary precautions are vital if you are going to recover. You cannot rely on your honesty, or faith, or willpower, or feelings, or gut. You must put up walls that OM will NEVER be able to get over. It's the only way.

I wrote dr. Harley I will wait for his reply.

I've asked this multiple times and you continue to ignore it.

WHEN are you changing your number?

I'm glad you wrote to Dr. Harley. He will probably say what others here have said, but he has a way of framing things that you will find helpful.

But the discussion has hit a theme, which is: Marriage should take priority over finances.

Do you agree with that precept in general, Marie?

You were exposed by cheaterville. Not yourself I am sure you sugar coated the truth and made POSOM to be awesome when he's a slug. Your anger with the cheaterville post shows the affair wasn't over and very typical of cheating spouses.

TD,

I say this with all due respect.

The Cheaterville aspect has run it's course and the other veteran posters have wisely been able to turn the focus more towards the EP's and UA Time along with the ongoing debate about the need for changing the work schedules.

I'm certain your point has validity, yet it would detour the slight progress currently underway.

I know that you could offer sage veteran advice in the direction needed to see if this woman can choose Her Marriage and Family Life over her job and inappropriate friendships.

LTL

And also, Marie has written to Dr. Harley. It will be good to here his advice to her. No doubt, it will clear her mind and help her to focus on the essential things she needs to do to recover her marriage.

I do think though that the 2x4's early on helped snap her out of the fog.

Who ever wrote that post about cheaterville it was completely wrong and rude. Okay so let's say I have two things left to accomplish. Change the number. Change the shift. What would be my next step?

You have to take the first steps first. Your marriage cannot enter recovery unless you are working a similar shift pattern to your husband's, and until you have ended your work-related travel. You must accomplish that first before any other steps become relevant.

When will you be changing the number?

I can change my number tommorrow but a new job could take months.

So I do nothing for months?

If I understand your situation correctly, none of the things highlighted in red have been done. I have highlighted "Account for time (betrayed spouse and wayward spouse give each other a twenty-four-hour daily schedule with locations and telephone numbers)" because I don't know whether Drew is able to verify your location by using a landline number to call you where you say you are. A mobile number will not do; you could be answering his calls from anywhere (a trick my H's OW used on her BH). How does Drew know that you are not in a hotel? Also, if you are away from home overnight, Drew does not know who is there with you.

I can't remember if you wrote a NC letter approved and sent by Drew, but if you have not, then that should be in red, too.

Your first step is to do all the things on the list that have not been done. There is not point asking about the steps after that if ALL the first steps have not been taken.

Until you change your shift from nights to days, and also stop travelling away from home, you will effectively be doing nothing.

Drew will not know where you are or who you are with as long as you travel away from home. Your assurances mean nothing; Drew cannot take your word when you have already used the freedom your job offered to live a secret second life. How does continuing in the same pattern change anything?

You and he might agree that what we are asking of you is impossible. You might decide to leave this forum and do things your way, with frequent phone calls while you travel and sleep out, but every day you do this Drew will be in hell, and that is not recovery.

You do what you can do immediately.

You sincerely develop a plan and DO NOT deviate or stall from bringing your work schedules together. NO EXCUSES!!!

Also, have that 100 % Open and Honest discussion about your affair.

Be open and willing to take as polygraph test to ensure honesty.

After ALL the details are discussed to your husbands complete satisfaction, then NEVER discuss the affair again.

Thoroughly read and continue to implement the list that several posters provided to you on How To End An Affair and continue implementing Extraordinary Precations to Affair Proof YOUR Marriage.

Continue to post about questions and setbacks and get validated for when you do the right things successfully.

LTL

Well of I don't work my paycheck would be short. That is one way he can tell if I am where I say I am. He can call the hospital at any time and I will be here. I have written as I said before I have done everything except the phone number and the shift. I wrote the no contact letter months ago before we knew about mb. And he never contacted me until he was posted on cheatervile so I think that point is moot.

You must eliminate all means of contact, including the phone number. That is a basic requirement.

You must leave this job in order to save your marriage.
It will not survive if you don't.
Dr. Harley is very clear that his procedures must be followed without deviation.

Your paycheck will be short if you get divorced, which is where you are headed now. The OM contacted you because that door has been left wide open. He is free to contact you at any time and Drew would not have any way of knowing this.

He has no reason to believe you haven't been in touch all this time anyway. And from the foggy tone of your posts, I don't believe you have cut off contact with this loser [censored]. For a wayward to be this hostile and foggy, there has to be a reason. You are supposedly 2 months into this and the fog hasn't dissipated at all. Your anger over exposure and the excuses we are seeing here all indicate a very active affair to me.

What about the email that OM used to contact you? Have you changed that?

I can't imagine a better set up for a cheater: work away from home 2-3 nights a week, which makes it possible to meet up with the OM when he is in town or talk to him all hours of the day and night undetected. Perfect set up for a cheater! What cheater would want to give that up?

But you didn't end contact at all. He was free to contact you and just did a week ago. Ending contact means you end contact. You didn't.

I fail to see how that was a hostile response. The bottom line is you all will never believe me not matter what I say. I am just glad my husband is more supportive.

Oh melody stop the drama! If I was meeting this man while I was supposed to be working I wouldn't get a paycheck. He lives 1500 miles away. You love this don't you?

Could you answer this?

It is not "supportive" to blindly trust an untrustworthy person. It wrecks marriages and ruins any chance at recovery. It is not "hostile" to point that out. It is our job to tell you how to recover.

If you truly want to create trust - not blind trust - then you should arrange your life in such a transparent way that it would be impossible to cheat. Your lifestyle is a cheaters dream. Your marriage won't recover like that.

'

Do they have planes, cars or trains in his town? See, in America, we have planes that can fly, cars that can drive to just about any place we want to go. If they do, he could travel to your town and be there within the same day.

And how would your husband even know? He would have no way of knowing. And how would he know if you talked to him from work? Of course he wouldn't know.

Don't you work 12 on, 12 off for 2-3 day spells? So you could easily hook up on your 12 hours off. Like I said, a cheaters dream set up. So I can see why you are fighting so hard to protect that lifestyle.

But the fact is you DID meet him.
The point is that if you are serious you will ELIMINATE all conditions which made the affair possible.

I was working in California at that time. I came home because my husband loves me so much and wants desperately to see this marriage work. I now work close and I am home four nights a week.

Well, you will need to be home EVERY NIGHT.

And gone 3 nights a week.....

Oooo... You know what why would I have wasted so much time getting beat up here if I were still screwing the other man? I would avoid you right. Oh wait let me guess this is how I covering up affair by coming here????? Does this make sense to anyone?????

Do I need to remind you that you came here to beat up board members because you were furious about exposure?

Nope incorrect!! I asked someone to explain the wisdom of cheaterville which I still think is a horrible idea.

In fact, you have been on here beating up board members with your nasty, snotty, hostile posts for 3 days now. What say you?

Even so, nothing you have said or done for the past 3 days would convince anyone that you are not still in touch with the OM. Just the opposite. Your behavior makes me believe you are still in contact.

It is very unusual to see a wayward who is *THIS* fogged out, entitled and hostile this far out from the end of the affair.

This is how a wayward acts who is still in contact.

OK you must be forest. I think I will go to marriage fitness instead. If I have to sit here and wait three months to do anything because I have to find a new job... I need results not bullying.

You don't HAVE to do anything. It is your marriage to wreck. But if you want to save your marriage, you need to find a way to be together every night. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know how to save marriages.

You can go wherever you want and you are free to ignore the advice here. It is all the same to me. I have already saved my marriage.

Melody why aren't you in bed with your husband? I am up because I am working:)))

You don't even follow your own rules:)))

Because we are sitting here watching The Last Ship on DVR!

If you don't want to follow Dr. Harley's recovery plan then at least have the courtesy to tell your husband so he can consider divorce.
You've mentioned Christian principles but your recent posts seem very combative.
Dr. Harley's plan is very clear, as detailed in his book.
All conditions which made the affair possible must be eliminated.

I am in my sexy PJs and he is in his cute bathrobe!

We are snacking on spinach artichoke dip!

But how can we be sure?

I don't think posting all night is quality time.

I agree. So why aren't you home with your husband?

I am working:)). Got to pay the bills....

This thread went off the rails when I pointed out how dangerous your job is to your marriage. I recognize when someone is trying to change the subject. So how about addressing the issue of your job, Marie, and stop with the game playing?

Have you changed your email that the OM contacted you with?

You didn't answer my points in this post either.

I cannot change the email until tommorrow when the school is open. But I will. I will have to find a new job and resign the one I have which I mentioned may take some time. So I guess I am at a standstill until that happens...

Oh and melody you don't have to warn my husband he is off marriage builders for good. He says it just makes him agitated and he told me I should stay away too.

Well he should be very agitated based on what I have seen here, Marie. He is in serious trouble.

Nah we will be okay...

You mean you will be OK? It is not your ox getting gored, after all.

Huh??

Why don't you email Dr. Harley and discuss this with him? He is always welcoming anyone who disagrees with any of his works to email him.

How come when we asked you if you had changed all your contact information, we were told you had changed all contact information except your number and now this?

What other means did you communicate with OM? Facebook or any other social media? Work email?

No I did say the email but I never thought it was an issue until Friday after the cheaterville thing. I did I not mention it tonight and I did not mean to mislead anyone I knew there were three things left on the list.

Okay so email and number changed tomorrow? How soon can you find another job? Have you started to look?
Any other means of communication?

No other means. I will do those tommorrow but the job will not be quick. I have a contract here for eight more weeks. Not to mention there is only one hospital within an hour of my house and even of I can work there I will have to do nights there as well. When you start a nursing job you nearly always do nights.

You will face a choice of your marriage or your job.

Great idea! I will do that.

I guess everyone here must be wealthy. I must work. I live in a riural area the pay is horrible and the jobs are few. When I tell you I would quit tommorrow I am truthful but I am the steady income.

Great idea to ask dr harley about cheaterville.

Well your guess is incorrect. I am not wealthy by any monetary standards.

If you dont want to quit your job then dont.
It's your marriage and your life.
But if you want to follow Dr. Harley's program for surviving an affair you will need to change jobs and never spend a night apart from your husband

You are absolutely right.

Did you ever get the chance to listen to those radio clips of Dr. Harley talking about those kind of websites?

No but I did write him today to see if he has any good ideas about the shift work.

So then don't leave the forum until you've heard back from Dr. Harley.

Is it possible for you and your husband to move to an area where employment options are better? It sounds like both of you would benefit from a better job market so you could pay your bills and have greater flexibility to support your marriage. You are in a profession where this demand.

I know of a lot of nurses who do well working fewer shifts a week. If you can do this in a location where the pay is better, you will have more time to spend with your family and husband and can improve your marriage.

I would love to move but my husband has a State Farm...it is nearly impossible to transfer.

Marie - Just wondering what a "State Farm" is?

You are not going to make it. Your marriage, IF it continues, will limp along as a crippled version of what it was before your affair.

Also, I know you mentioned you are an LDRP nurse, have you looked at other area's of nursing that may give you an opportunity to be at home? I know here in Canada, nurses with experience are always in demand, and the experience doesn't nessecarily have to be within your "specialty" .
You said you worked at a rural hospital ~ what about homecare? Case management that sort of stuff, that could allow you to be home at night?

Her BH previously posted that he is an insurance agent for State Farm, an American Insurance company

Prisca we are going to make it. Our marriage is already 100 percent better then it ever has been. This affair was a horrible experience for my family and I am so sorry I put everyone through it but it woke both my husband and I up to how much we were neglecting the important things. Now I am sure you will all find a way to trace this statement back to me maintaining an ongoing affair with the OM but I realized after spending three days on this forum it
Is not good for me. I know what is true why do I care this group believes about me?

I dont know why you would care.

However, it is important to note that you had an affair because of your poor boundaries around men.
"Neglecting important things" did not make you have an affair.

No i have good boundaries around men. I let this man manipulate me because I didn't want to be married anymore. I was looking for a way out. Fortunately godly people told me I don't have to want to I just have to. Fortunately my husband was not ready to quit even though I hurt him so deeply.

Actually, although he is a manipulator I was a willing manipulatee.

And I thought of a great solution to the night shift issue (which I started tonight). I will simply send my husband a picture of myself at work each night or FaceTime him if I have time. This will give us a chance to connect each night and reassure him I am exactly where I say I am. During the day I sleep in a patient room and he can call the desk and ask to be connected to my room. We had already planned for him to come down and have dinner with me sometimes as well. I truly would love to find something to be home every night but these things will work on the meantime.

No Marie, that won't do. You are so close to making things great, don't blow it with half measures.

Your marriage is in the ER and your working night shifts is something that would wound even an extremely healthy marriage.

If you do this for more than a month at such a critical time, you will end up divorced. This is why antisocial shifts pay more. Because of the expense and personal damage caused to the worker.

If you divorce, you will both pay over thousands to lawyers and afterwards you will have to maintain two separate homes. Do you think the extra money you get for late shifts will cover such expenses?

Think harder. If you review your budget, what would have to go in order to survive day to day on your day rate pay?

What savings do you have? What can be sold?

Can you move?

We moving to a more energy efficient place on Friday. If you read my other posts we have nothing to sell. We eat at home most of the time. I pack my lunch for nights I work. We have little savings and two daughters in college. I shop at the Salvation Army and target for everything. Truly finances are our biggest issue next to the affair. That's why I have been traveling.

Yay good to see you are attempting to make changes but like indie said you need big changes not small ones. The purpose for you not working nights is two fold.

1. Dr. Harley and MB teaches married couples to spend at least 15 hours a week together with zero distractions. Undivided attention and it's required for a happy marriage. 20 hours for recovery keep in mind that's weekly.

2. All factors that led to your affair need to be eliminated that's called just compensation or JC. It creates transparency and accountability for your BH and you! Keep in mind JC and extraordinary precautions to hand in hand. They are followed by both spouses.

I understand your finances are a mess but your marriage can survive a financial problem but not a affair and not prioritizing the marriage. Please keep this in mind and switch your shifts. God bless!

PS: I hope you change all your contact info like you said you were as for work emails IT department can do that for you easily just submit a request all avenues to POSOM need to be cut off. Facebook, twitter and all social media. Phone numbers changed not just blocked. This is crucial step in JC and EP it is for your husband's peace of mind as well for your marriage. This needs to be done no matter how your husband feels!

That is not a solution. You have to be spending the nights together and working parallel shifts in order to create an integrated lifestyle. That is essential for recovery. Sending a picture of yourself won't do that.

I agree that spending every night together would be ideal but at least if I do this my husband can be assured I am being truthful which all along has been my biggest issue. Not nearly as much about the affair but about the state of my heart. "I forgive you" when I didn't. "It's fine" when I am NOT. These are the important changes that I need to make. I have lied my whole life... Not about where I was ( only once for that) or who I was with (only once).
I am a pleaser who tells everyone what they want to hear. It builds up until you make the biggest mistake of your life.

Until you hurt everyone you care about.

Did you change your phone number and your email?

Not yet I just got home. Spent a few minutes with my husband talking but I will do that next:)

Pi

No, you well not make it of you keep trying to cut corners.
Being sorry is not enough.
Having faith is not enough.
Feeling remorse is not enough.

Repentance requires action. If you do not take very specific steps, your marriage will be a crippled version of what it used to be (if it even survives that long). These are facts that mere feelings cannot change.

It is tomorrow and this simple step hasn't been completed?! Your leaving the door open for POSOM when it should be shut!

Tell us when you've changed them.

So I am talking to dr Harley on the show tommorrow.

So you guys can all post I told you so after he tells me I have to quit my job.

But we already told you this. We told you that you would have to stop the overnight shifts and spend every night together in order to recover your marriage. We already know what his advice will be. We are not waiting to hear something we already know.

Fantastic, I will be listening. Let us know how it goes.

Okay melody than I won't even talk to him.

I don't care what you do, but we already know what he will say about leaving your job. We didn't tell you to contact him to get the answer to that because we already know his advice. The purpose was to to get his help in finding creative solutions to your job problem.

That sounds like pretty much what I am asking about. Is recovery impossible if I continue to work nights or should I work sixty hours a week during the day to make up for the pay cut?

Just as long as you make it home EVERY night and you are not working opposite shifts. But we have told you this.

Okay melody I will just call Mrs Harley back and tell her I don't need to speak to the doctor because you answered all my questions.

Whatever makes you happy!

Okay well I guess I will ask the man who wrote the book:)

Good Marie! You will find both Dr. and Joyce Harley to be so hospitable and inviting. Will Drew be on the show with you?

I am leaving that up to him. He would like to and I would love it if he would but we have to be on the same phone line and I do not want to do it in his office. We could put my phone on speaker but I am leaving it up to him if he wants to come home in the middle of the day.

Maybe you could drive to his work and then both of you go out to the car and put your phone on speaker phone there?

Great idea. I will ask him if he would do that.

You could also do a three way call. It's pretty easy to do with pretty much any smart phone. We did our last couple of calls that way.

Oh that is even better. I will figure it out.

Have you changed your number and email yet?

No it's pointless at this time. The OM never contacted me until the cheaterville thing. When he realized I am not going to anything to help his cause he won't ever contact me again. My husband is good with it and I would do it if he wasn't. At some point in recovery you have to trust each other again....

You are backtracking on one of the simplest Extraordinary Precautions available to you After you explicitly stated you would change your contact information.

IF your husband is in agreement with that, then it is only due to him not knowing how to properly safeguard your marriage from any other affair.

It is SUCH A SMALL STEP for you to actually back up your words with actions and you waffled immediately.

How will he EVER sincerely feel safe again?

He won't!!!

If you are even the least bit serious about recovering your marriage, YOU should take the steps required.

You have NO Idea what his mind and thoughts gave gone through.

LTL

Marie, you earlier complained about getting slammed on here and I was all set to reply that everyone here, including myself received a lot of 2x4s and bootcamping in the beginning, because we all came here clueless.

However I didn't because you seemed to be slowly getting it; asking questions and wanting to know what you could do.

It isn't the case that people who had affairs get slammed around here ad infinitum. Some of our former waywards are amongst some of the most respected members of this forum. There is NOTHING they wouldn't do to repair, prevent and protect. Nothing.

So you can't be bothered changing email and numbers? Quite possibly the easiest measure re prevention it is possible to do?

Recovery is reliant on OM not getting in touch?

You may well lose the most experienced and valued posters on your thread (which you are quite rich in currently) if they care more about affair proofing than you do.

How is changing my email and phone number affair proofing my marriage? It will only protect me from one person. One person who has nothing to say until our names were posted all over cheaterville. If no one wants to post on my comments its okay. I do understand the concept and if my husband had a single concern I would happily change everything.

And learned too late he does feel safe. If he didnt I would change everything. I am not lying, listen to our radio thing we are headed in the absolute right direction. Even the expert said so:)

Did you tell Dr. Harley that you had originally agreed to change your contact information, but now you have changed your mind and are not willing to do the smallest of token gestures?

LTL

I am not unwilling, I would happily do it if my husband wanted me too. I think maybe the problem is that you all think we are at the beginning of this process. You all talked to my husband months after I exposed myself. I made the commitment to work with him to attempt to repair the many aspects of our relationship that were failing. I did not want to. I did it because it was the right thing to do. Now I am SO happy I did. I loved Dr. Harley's book and website because he articulated everything I was feeling and it made me feel that we were not hopeless. I came on this site to ask about the wisdom of cheaterville. A practice that Dr. Harley does not even endorse, and especially after the affair has already been exposed for months. I have been sucked into conversations about every other issue and made to feel like a piece of garbage. I probably keep coming back because I feel like I deserve it.

I don't think you are lying; I find it quite believable that OM has made himself scarce and headed for the hills. That is what the majority of OM do.

However that is not a guarantee that he won't keep you in his little black book and look you up sometime, 10, or even 20 years from now. Or for that fact tomorrow. Men like that don't toss away women forever.

There isn't much you can do to take away the affair. Or show remorse. Changing your details and going to your husband and showing him so; showing him that you have made it IMPOSSIBLE for OM to ever reach you is a very small and tiny gesture of sincerity that any wayward who means business would gladly do.

If the basics haven't been done you ARE at the beginning of this process. I find it shocking that this has gone undone for any length of time.

Your husband shouldn't have to insist on every basic - do this for yourself and for your own desire to recover.

Okay I will do it even if I just do it for you guys as a gesture that I am sincere.

I'll give you practical, real world a reason to change your email address. My wife had an affair almost 3 years ago now. She never changed her email address. About a month ago, her email password got hacked and anyone she had ever emailed in the past was sent a spam email. Included in that list were several people who she had no contact with because they were involved with her affair. One of them responded to the spam mailing and broke no contact. It took us DAYS to get past that one little thing and it's been 3 years. We immediately changed her email address. We changed her phone number too.

Your problem is that you don't realize you ARE at the beginning of this whole process. This isn't going to go away in a matter of weeks, days or even months. It may never go away if you don't start following all of the steps to get there.

You don't want to be 5 years down the road and have the other man calling you up drunk one night telling you he misses you. You've got to cut off all known ways you might be contacted.

First you said:



Then when next asked if you would change your email you said:



Now you're back to talking about how forum members are giving non-MB advice, which we do not do.



Dr Harley has often said he endorses these sites. If anyone here gives non MB advice, click notify and ask the mods to take down the offending post. Which they will, if it is not MB advice.

Honestly Marie, if your BH were my brother I would tell him to buckle up and keep a careful eye on you. You were willing to change your details and all of a sudden it is hard for you.

It's not hard to guess why.

Awesome! It makes not a bit of difference to my life but it cuts out forever the worst mistake of yours. That does make me happy for you Marie.

The end result is the same, regardless who or why you do it.

But, just do it, please.

It would "SEEM" more respectful to your marriage and to your husband if they were the reasons you felt that you could protect from ANY potential future fallout and contact bythe POSOM.

I really am glad thatt Dr. Harley expanded his thought process on the whole Cheaterville thing to, because Nuclear Worl Wide Exposure to principles not involved often times seems like vigilantism to certain extremes.

See..... Your original concern and forum topic were addressed and we all can learn from it.

But, the POSOM who even starts to get involved with ANY married woman deserves to be publicly scrutinized to the most significant depths possible.

Keep Coming Back.

LTL

Indie girl I tried to call the school yesterday and got no answer called today and everyone keeps saying they have to ask the manager. I even told them what if my life was in danger but they didnt seem to know what to do about it???

What he said is that he "doesn't endorse or NOT endorse cheaterville, I am neutral," but can sometimes see the value of exposing the OP on those sites. We already knew this, though. What Marie's husband did was expose her on there, WHICH WAS NOT RECOMMENDED BY THIS FORUM. Her husband was told to expose the OP on cheaterville by one of the posters here.

AS far as exposing to principles who "are not involved," that knowledge is not possible to know when exposing to the OP's contacts. And essentially, no one cares about that when exposing to the OP side.

Dr. Harley very much does advocate exposure. The term "nuclear exposure" is a nonsense term that is so subjective that it is meaningless.

You are at the beginning of this process since you haven't taken extraordinary precautions yet. This is one of the first steps and I am glad you have agreed to do this.

So what did you think of Dr Harley's advice to take your husbadn with you on your out of town trips from now on?

What we learned is that posters should take the advice given. Her husband was NOT TOLD to expose her on cheaterville. He was told to expose the OP.

My husband did not even know about Cheaterville until he came here. And if you listen to the conversation I had with Dr. Harley it seems like he does not endorse it even for the OP. However, on this topic I am done talking because I do not want my husband to feel like I harbor any bad feelings about it. No matter how much I like the information in MB I will never say its a good idea for anyone. Final word from me on that.

Marie;

I am a BW. My fWH DID change his telephone number after D-Day. And, he really believed that The Dolly would not ever call him again. He was certain she did not have his new number.

Well, she DID call him. She attempted to call him three times in the months following, and finally got through once, nearly a year after D-Day. He was SHOCKED. It completely derailed our recovery, and every instance of broken trust like that makes it harder to get back on the recovery path. And you know, there is a limit to how many times you can pick yourself up and dust yourself off.

So, please do not let OM be the one to decide if he will try to contact you again in future. Please show your BH that you will never ever be in contact with OM ever again. Even if your BH says he's okay with you not changing your number, I'd bet he will be tickled that you went to the measure of changing your contact info, in order to protect your marriage. SHOW him by your actions that you are committed to your marriage.

Dr. Harley does not endorse exposing one's spouse on cheaterville, and neither does the forum. That advice was not given by this forum to your husband. As far as the subject of cheaterville goes, Dr Harley stated - TO YOU - that he "does not endorse or not endorse, I am neutral" on cheaterville but can sometimes see the value of exposing the OP. Which is exactly what was recommended to your husband.

Everything that Dr Harley said to you on the call is what we already knew. We knew he would tell you not to spend the night apart and we knew this was his stance on exposure.

I am glad you got some creative ideas about how to avoid these separations while you look for another job. He is brilliant in finding creative solutions to problems.

No, he did not say he didn't endorse it even for the OP. After all, HE is the one who first informed listeners about these websites. He said he "does not endorse or not endorse, I am neutral" but sees the value of exposing the OP sometimes.

And thats ok that you wouldn't advocate epxosure on cheaterville. Forum members will continue to advocate it because it can be an invaluable tool.

Of course Melody.

I am glad we are in agreement.

That is the 1st time I ever typed in the word Nuclea, by the way, yet as far as the OM/OW goes, yes they should be posted and then links to the sites ssould be made available to Every Single Exposure Contact.

Like you said, you just don't know who may yield some influence.

I am glad that Dr. Harley expanded on his Neutrality on the subject though as you mentioned.

I do feel that when anonymous posters intentionally follow the aforementioned sites and write scathing vitriolic substance, that their input may not be aiding the efforts of potential reconciliation and full marital recovery.

If it were someone that potentially knew the affair parties, then go all out and gangbust the heck out of them.

But for someone trollinggthose sites knowingly, due to information posted on this and probably other sites, just seems to reek of sadistic voyeurism.

Look at how wide of a chasm started off due to you being falsely called out as that anonymous poster.

Yes, We All Know that Drew3 was NEVER advised to post his Wife on the site, but now they both are past that mistake and still need plenty of guidance and support to do the next right things. Agreed?

Change the phone number!!!

Change the e-mail address!!!

Find a new compatible lifestyle job without delay!!!

Till then, do as Dr. Harley said about staying together at a Comfort Suites or something similar. Bring your Insurance Agency work with you. Work from a remote location just to be together.

And..... Listen to Melody Lane, IndieGirl and a host of others.

They are NOT your opponent. Unintentional poor marriage behaviour is.

LTL

I thought we were all past that, too, until posts were made TODAY which completely mischaracterized the forum's advice and Dr Harley's comments on the subject. I don't like being placed in the position of having to correct the record over and over again when we can all see what really happened just by reading the posts. And honestly, I didn't care that she accused me of being a poster that made comments on her thread. I would have been proud to have been that poster, but didn't know about her thread.

VEry much agree with you that it should be dropped! Hopefully this will truly be dropped now.

Getting exposed is a job hazard of cheating. If you don't like being exposed, you shouldn't do things you don't want exposed. It's real simple. You are not a victim.

This is what you wrote Melody...so stop talking out both sides.

**EDIT**

For the love of Pete...let it drop.

Oh good grief....

I was willing to let it drop you have been talking about it for pages. I don't want my husband to feel bad about doing it. He is working so hard.

we all know you didnt tell him to do it. You have said it like ten times.

But you are thrilled that he did.

Yet you were on here TODAY mischaracterizing Dr. Harley's position on cheaterville which needed to be corrected.

If you don't want your husband to feel bad, then knock it off and let it drop!

My gosh Marie!!! For the love of pete, let it go and move on to the business of recovering your M.

And you have brought up the cheaterville issue about 100 times and can't seem to let it go.

I don't see how that helps move your marriage forward.... Does this help you in some way?

I agree!! I have not said anything but I am tired of this. lets move on. i called the school they are working on the email I have to pay the phones before they will change the number so that will be friday but I did check on everything.

That is a good step in the right direction. What are your plans to resolve the traveling issue? Is your husband coming with you now?

For those of you who haven't listened to her show yet, Dr Harley told them not to spend the night apart again. He told her husband to start going with her to her working town and check into a hotel. That way she comes back to the hotel when she is off and spends the time with him.

He is definitely going to come down this week for an evening but we truly cannot afford a hotel. The problem is I work the night shift so for him to pay for a room to sleep alone is dumb. But we are working on him making more money so I can take a big pay cut.

So you are not going to take Dr. Harley's advice? I am not surprised.

Excellent advice. I would work on figuring out a way to make this happen.

Trust me I would much rather sleep in a hotel than a disgusting hospital bed. How could he do business while I am trying to sleep. We will get this worked out but it just may not be this week.

Of course I am you self righteous...if I could I would. if you want to pay I will give you the name of the hotel.

i will take your mastercard anytime melody

You realize ML is a volunteer, right? She is one of the best posters here and taking time out of her day to try to HELP your MARRIAGE. She almost single-handedly helped my sister save her M but also helped me personally recover after my D.

She's not here to make friends or to pat people on the back. Oftentimes, 2x4s are the only way to get through to people.

If you REALLY want to recover your M, you will take what she says more seriously...

I am sure she is fabulous but everything I say she slams and I am sick of it. I am trying my hardest to work on a marriage I was done with. She can ignore me but she loves to goad me on. I don't care if she doesnt post. I dont have to post. I wanted help. but all I get is everything I am doing wrong.

Our home is in forclosure. We are broke!!!!!!!

Collections at our door step this evening. That was great...

People that are serious about wanting to save their marriage don't ignore the advice. Dr. Harley told you how to solve this problem and it is not "slamming" you to point out that you are IGNORING HIS ADVICE.

Why waste his time and ours if you are going to ignore his advice? What was the point of calling him today if you are just going to follow Plan Wayward?

Marie, you are not going to make it unless and until you start taking this serious. This whole thread is an endless litany of Plan Marie. Well guess what? MARIE only knows how to WRECK MARRIAGES!

When are you going to get serious?

Okay you win sister... I surrender. I have no answer for you... I didnt want to say well we dont have a hundred bucks a night for a hotel on the show. its kind of embarassing. He had great suggestions but there is no way we can afford it.

This is a small town. There are two hotels one is one hundred the other is one hundred and twenty.

If you really "want help" then why aren't you taking the advice? People who really "want help" don't ignore the advice and BRAWL with the posters. That is all you have done: BRAWL AND FIGHT.

Brawling will not save your marriage.

I am taking it seriously. I wouldnt keep coming back if I was messing around. I would avoid you like the plague.

I have an idea!! Instead of looking for solutions, why not BRAWL with the posters who volunteer their free time on the board?

I have been polite until you attack.

My wife and I were also advised by Dr. Harley on the radio program to not be separated overnight at a time when we too were facing a difficult issue in meeting job requirements while working through our move to another location. We had to move Heaven and Earth (well, it seemed like it, anyway), but through the whole process, we were not apart a single night. This is more than just a matter of avoiding an affair, even though that is a plenty good reason. It is also concrete evidence of your commitment to restoring your marriage. Never being separated overnight is a basic MB rule. It is very important. It is more important than your job or your finances.

I see no sign that you are serious. Rather, I think you love to BRAWL. People that are serious look for solutions, they don't brawl and attack board members.

Nothing serious here.

You give me a solution...Quit and live on welfare? I cannot do it.

Okay well if I am not I will just go. I will just do this on my own.

You are wasting our time. There are so many people here who are serious about saving their marriages. They are not here brawling like a fish wife. They are looking for solutions and following the advice.

\

Then you REALLY do not want D. A divorce is a nightmare on your finances.

This is an opportunity for you two to work as a TEAM, brainstorm and figure this out. People who want to make things happen, do. It's that simple.

ps - I don't have a ton of sympathy for the "I'm broke" excuses that get thrown around here often. I have to figure a ton of stuff out all on my own, ONE income. And yes, I also have a child in college and crazy legal expenses.

Marie, a big part of the trouble is that you are talking to people who traveled this road before you (and saved our own marriages).

Would you rather speak with the average person who has NO idea how to save M's after an affair? You know the type�the type that I used to be when I always swore that if my H ever cheated on me, he'd be out on his butt.

Have you read anyone else's threads on here? EVERYONE has a story, and most of our stories include drastically changing our lifestyle (that obviously wasn't working for us).

We all had to do extraordinarily difficult things so that we could put a total cast around our marriages. In order to HEAL.

For what it's worth, I was very impressed when you interrupted Joyce in order to explain the truth about your working nights. But Drew STILL needs to be with you. Even if you are sleeping.

Dr. H sounded as if he thought that you two have a bright future ahead of you. Together. Please stick to HIS plan and follow the steps so that you both can heal. Please do not take "shortcuts" and make it Marie's Plan. Keep Dr. H's plan. Change your email and your phone number, and you two agree to NEVER spend a night apart again.

Marie, assuming you cannot scrape up the $100, or stay at a town within 100 miles that has cheaper hotels:

If you have a tent, Forest Service campgrounds are about $6/night or KOAs are really cheap.

If you have a travel trailer, Walmart lets you park it in their lot for free.

Sometimes a local church knows someone you can board with for an occasional night or two.

If you have a pickup with a topper, you can put a mattress in the back and park in Walmart. My parents do that when they are traveling sometimes.

If you have a minivan, you can fold the seats down (or depending upon the model you may have to take them out) and put a mattress in the back.

Is there a nearby YMCA or YWCA?

If you REALLY, REALLY think hard you CAN AND WILL find a solution.

A family who posts for boarders?

LTL

Sometimes local colleges let people stay in their dorm rooms off season for cheap.

I have done that before.

You're not going to make it.
You are activelly looking for reasons why you can adhere to the "no nights apart" policy, instead of actively searching for ways to make it work.

There is a difference.

But then, I'm only repeating myself.

I am not but in spite of of the affIair and the circumstances that lead to it life must go on...rent must be paid. School must be paid. I appreciate all the advice but we will make it. I know plenty of nurses who have And most of them worked nights for at least part of there career. I do not have the type of ince that is expendable no matter what you all think.

Income that is.

I appreciate the suggestions but how would my husband do business while I am sleeping? How can I sleep in a the back of a pick up and expect to take great care of the patients I serve? It sounds good in theory but anyone who has worked nights will tell you you run on empty most of the time. I am not
Making excuses.

I would love to quit and just do school. My husband would too but we have been horrible with our money and now we have to get things squared.

No, it is not true that it MUST be paid.
Again, you are looking for reasons NOT to doing anything instead of looking for solutions.

What happens if you don't get things squared right now? Do you get thrown in jail? Shot?

Prica you have six kids would you tell any one of them that they have to quit school because your father and I suck at money. My daughters work, they pay for most of there own things. We have to pay there room and board or they will not be able to attend.

You all can badger me about anything else but I am not making my girls give up there education.

And you dont have to bother telling me about community college or anything because the price we pay for room and board is equal to community college and then I would have to room and board them.

It is not "badgering" you to point out that you are not taking this seriously and spend all your time manufacturing excuses. It you spent this time looking for solutions, rather than devising excuses, being snotty and attacking board members [who don't have to help you!] you would find solutions to all your problems.

Being snotty and looking for excuses is not going to save your marriage. It just shows others that you are not serious in the least.

You don't have to bother making more excuses. We already KNOW you are full of crap and are not remotely serious.

Nobody is badgering you about anything.
Since you have arrived, you don't look for solutions..only argue about why you cannot follow the steps in Surviving an Affair.

Dr. Harley's program for recovering from an affair and building a loving romantic marriage is very clear and cannot be deviated from.

Writing about how you can't follow the program will not get you anywhere here. We are not allowed to give our personal opinions and can only give Dr. Harley's program to others. They don't make customized recovery plans here.

Plenty of people work their way through school. It's an option. Probably one you don't like. But it's an option. You've got to change something because what you're doing now obviously isn't working out for you.

I have concluded a couple of things about this one: a) she is here to BRAWL, b) she is not here to find solutions and c) she is very probably still in an active affair given her fogged out, hostile, brawling mindset.

Until she gets serious about recovery, I believe I will spend most of my limited board time on the threads of those who are serious. This wayward is NOT serious and, as such, a waste of my valuable time.

Every road to recovery has bridges and tunnels to overcome the obstacles. Find your bridges and tunnels, and then come back and tell us how you have made the plan work.

Hmm this has been literally the most serious six months of my life. I have contemplated leaving, staying, lying, being honest... You probably think this has just been a good time for me melody but everyone who knows me would seriously disagree. I have made horrible decisions that have affected every relationship that matters to me. No I am damn serious.

And I am not being snotty but truly there are plenty of helpful people on here and you do not need to waste your time on me. we obviously butt heads or something.

Talk is cheap, Marie. Put your money where your mouth is. People who are serious don't waste their time manufacturing endless excuses; they look for solutions. Talk means NOTHING unless it is backed up by actions. I see nothing here, nothing.

okay I guess I will just check in someday. I dont know why I keep torturing myself on this forum...

Get back to us when you are serious.

Seven kids, actually.

And I don't plan on paying for their college. I worked my way through school, which was an education in of itself, and I don't intend to rob my children of that opportunity.

You don't HAVE to pay for your daughters' college education. It is not a MUST.

But, any excuse will do to avoid repairing the damage to your marriage ....

I think your marriage will end in divorce.
Years from now, you may look back and regret not following the program.
Or, you may just blame external forces for the rest for your life

Waywards who are damn serious work like hell to compensate for the damage done.

I don't see you doing that. You're making an awful lot of noise, but your job and your finances are more important than compensating for the death blow you have dealt your husband.

Marie, you are so full of excuses.

I have run a $250M business on Panera's wifi for a week at a time, when circumstances required.

Tent it at night and then your husband can lounge at Panera for a few hours, then Starbucks, etc.

I understand how most women really pull up their nose at a tent. However, most women have never tried it.

I absolutely love spending the night in a nature setting, in a tent. There is something really unique about it that is hard to describe.

I love Europe and 5 stars as much as the next person, but my favorite vacation by far is sleeping in a tent in a mountain wilderness....or really, in any setting that has fresh air and whispering pines.

The fresh, cold night air is phenomenally refreshing. I would by far be better rested sleeping in a tent day or night in the fresh air, than on a bed in a room in a hospital.

Look at it as an adventure that you guys haven't tried before.

Open your mind, put away your prejudices and you may actually enjoy it.

As far as college for your kids is concerned, do you really think they want their college tuition paid at the cost of their parents divorcing?

No matter how much money I was earning, my kids have always understood that they got scholarships (that was their job) or they paid their own way.

My two oldest joined the Air Force specifically for the college tuition benefits...at a time when we were a 1%-er household.

And they were better for it. They served (or are serving) a 6 year enlistment as air traffic controllers while getting all of their tuition paid by the Air Force.

Who do you think employers will hire first? My boys with 6 years of air traffic control experience AND a bachelors degree or kids that enjoyed the good times while entitled to a mommy-and-daddy funded education? You really are doing them NO favors by entitling them to a mommy-paid education.

I paid my own way...complete with top ramen noodles...and that in itself was a better education than college ever was.

Mari,

Please do check in here again after you get your head on straight and get serious about your marriage and following MB.

Tom

Can the scholarships be used to pay for room and board?
And federal loans be used for tuition? Your credit history should not contribute to their eligibility of federal loans.

Can I ask why the heck you are paying $14,000 per year to room and board two adults when you have a mountain of debt and financial conditions causing poor credit?

Marie, this is seriously messed up.

Let the little darlings get jobs and pay their own $14,000.

Marie, my parents had debt collectors at their door and were on the verge of losing their farm when I was in college.

NEVER, EVER, EVER would the thought have even occurred to me to expect them to pay $14,000 per year for my college.

They had no money to buy even essentials. A few times they were down to whatever coins they could find in the couch cushions and an empty heating oil tank. Once my dad got an opportunity to run a truck for someone for three days and he left with $5 and no idea how he was going stretch that to eat for three days.

A cushy cafeteria eating plan for me was out of the question. Neither they or I could pay for it, and never in my wildest fantasy would the thought occur to me that they should.

In the summers, between my three jobs, sometimes I would have time to help them irrigate. I was happy to HELP THEM any way I could because they were truly in need. As an adult, I never expected them to be helping me anymore unless there was something specific I couldn't do for myself and needed from them in order to be able to breath the air so I didn't die.

Your daughters need to grow up a little....or a lot.

My girls do have jobs, scholarships and took out loans for the max they were allowed. We cannot get parent loans Because of our credit. I do not feel it is fair to tell them to quit school because your father and I are having issues. They are highly motivated and hard workers. So that is not an option. As for tenting. Fine with tenting. Love it in fact. However it will not change that I must work at night. My husband cannot run a business while I am asleep and I will be working while he is asleep. It makes no sense for him to come with me until I get on the day shift which I have inquired about but there is nothing available at this time. So if me being on the forum is contingent on all the pieces lining up perfectly I will stay off until I can get these things settled. Thanks for all you great suggestions and hopefully they will be useful soon:(

This is a false argument as has been pointed out to you. Your daughters do not have to quit school just because you can't pay their room and board. Which you can't according to you.

Pieces don't just line up on their own though. You're the one making the choices. Whether you want to admit it or not, the fact is that you are choosing to spend $14000 per year on room and board as a gift to your children. You have your reasons for making that choice, but it is a choice. It's a shame you choose that over saving your own marriage. What do you think your children value more? Do they have a say in this? Maybe you should ask them if they would rather continue receiving room and board and have their parents divorce, or pay their own way and have their parents stay together and fall in love again.

Here is another idea. How about splitting the room and board with them. You pay half and they pay half? You said they have jobs?

That would give you $500 a month right there.

Get creative.

Why can't your adult daughters earn $7,000 per year each?

What kind of cars do your daughters drive?

Do they make the car payments or do you?

Do they buy their own gas or do you?

Who pays the insurance?

Who pays their cell phone bills?

Do you see where I'm going with this? They don't need you to support them anymore....even if they are in college, and especially with their full ride scholarships. They are big girls and can figure it out.

I'm having a hard time understanding why student loans are needed when they have a full ride and their parents pay $14,000 per year in room and board.

Perhaps your daughters have a lifestyle that is unreasonable and unsustainable, given your circumstances and theirs.

My daughters probably do make 7000 a year but they pay for books and school fees. They pay to do there laundry and keep themselves in shampoo, soap and tampons. They have no car. One is not even licensed because she knows she has nothing to drive. I do pay for the basic cell phone service and they pay of they want anything else. They buy there own clothes. I not going to make them take a second job (well third if you count the summer job) off campus which they have no transportation to. When would they study? They are nineteen and seventeen. They love us both very much. I would never put them in the position and say either you give up school or we get divorced. Of course they would say we don't want you to get divorced. Why would I put that kind of pressure on them after they have already delt with our stuff. Not going to make the situation worse by holding them responsible for the failure of our marriage.

When I say full ride I am saying our out of pocket is room and board. They have scholarships loans work study and grants... The entire package.

My children are the kindest, most generous teenagers I know so you can talk about the whore wife and her spender husband but don't you dare bring my children into this.

If they have a full ride and you pay their room and board, what percentage of their college do they actually pay?

Okay so I told one of my closest friends who is a very spiritual woman about this forum and she texted me this this morning....No excuses. Stay out of the forum. You are inviting trouble and irritating your own spirit. Don't do that.Seriously, you'll start indulging complaint and condemnation. You'll get all stirred up and before you know it your heart will be full of rebellion and/or despair again. That's what I mean. It will stir up self-condemnation or rebellion and make you want to justify all over again. If it's not turning you to Jesus and the way of His heart, run away.
She is the smartest woman I know. She told me to stay when I didn't want to so I have to listen to her about this too. I really am signing off for good.

And how many marriages has your friend saved exactly?

You missed my point. If you continue on your current path you are likely to be divorced. Probably because of your second affair. Or your husbands future affair. Those are the statistics. That's the choice you are making.

I agree that the forum will "upset your spirit" as long as you are not serious about finding solutions. People here will tell you what you need to hear, not crap you want to hear.


"For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths." 2 Timothy 4 3-4

Well, it looks like they each need to figure out how to make $7,000 per year more.



There's some "found" money. If you were to be honest, it's likely your girls have more than enough clothes to last years and do not NEED more. They can apply that money towards room and board.

If clothes are NEEDED, there is usually a Salvation Army or Goodwill store around. I'm not telling you to do anything I myself am not willing to do as well. Most of my shopping when I was in college was in St. Vincent de Paul and Salvation Army. The sacrifice was worth it.



It is astonishing that you would baby them this way while you have debt collectors knocking at your door.

They would study at night. If they are not hungry enough for their education to do that, maybe they need to defer it for a while until THEY can afford it because you can't.



Who told you to do that? Why would you just make up a vicarious untruth? Their school has nothing to do with your divorce - which is coming soon enough because you would rather make excuses and argue than make the hard choices about your marriage.

Either they get jobs to earn the $14,000 or they defer school until they can afford it because you certainly can't.


Because it is their responsibility to find a way to go to college when their parents don't have the money for it. It is their pressure, not yours. And you don't have the resources to shelter them from it.

There is always the Air National Guard which will pay for college tuition and provide a very well paid weekend a month.

There are options if they are resourceful. Your obligation is to make sure you don't end up as their responsibility when you are older, not to coddle them through college and then not have any resources to provide for yourself when you can't work.


Of course you shouldn't. Who told you to do that?

If you get a divorce, it will be because you showed more creativity to avoid doing what you need to do than to do them.

Marie, seriously, your girls would be far better served by overcoming their own challenges than being coddled by their parents.

When I got out of school, I ran circles around peers who had a mommy-funded education because I knew how to deal with the realities of situations and overcome them, and they had no clue.

Having a lifetime of overcoming challenges allowed me to quickly adapt to and excel at almost anything. It gave me a high confidence in my abilities that can only be earned, not given.

You think you are doing them a favor, but you are not.

I'm a deeply religious woman, too, and that's a bunch of crap.

When you are interested in saving your marriage, let us know (MB is Christan based, btw).

I can not think of a single successful recovery where the wayward drove the recovery bus. The establishment of EPs is something Drew should be doing without interference. If Marie was serious, she would respect that. Instead, she is right in there deciding the rules. How could Drew ever recover under these conditions? It is not possible.

Maybe if Marie stopped obsessing over about the fact that Drew ever turned to an exposure site and thought a little bit about *why* he did. No BS would be comfortable in a recovery controlled by the WS like this one is. The real problem is the fragility of this marriage, and not the peace of Marie's spirit. I pretty much expect this kind of resistance from a wayward mindset. For this marriage to recover, it is Drew that needs to wake up.

So what's your friend's plan for you to save your marriage?

Here's your show.
Radio Clip of MarieMab's Show

I listened to this call, and Harley commented that the hotel would not be that expensive.
I can attest to this.
I formally spent 2/3 of the year on the road and literally stayed in 3 star hotels for less than $50 a night.
Obviously there are exceptions but it is clearly doable.

Was there even one EP that Marie implemented? Her multiple excuses suggest active, underground affair to me.

AM

I have the same feeling. A wayward this foggy indicates an ACTIVE affair.

49 pages and back to square one. Marie, I hope your husband realizes that all this blah blah blah is pretty clear - you have no intention of protecting your marriage. Liars love to talk without saying anything of substance.

50... Good grief.

That is not true. I has my number changed and the school is working on the email. Apparently it's not all that easy.

And as much as I would love to debate my state of fogginess and my status as a liar....I have a date with my husband:)

Marie,

Affairs often cause massive financial damage. It's just one of those things we never think about when we get pulled into one.

Think of your affair like a bomb that has basically blown your regular, dependable life to bits. You might have to let even more stuff fall apart in order to rebuild something that will put your marriage and family first.

Resisting this process will actually drag out the suffering for everyone involved. At the very least be willing to CONSIDER rearranging everything. Trying to defend the status quo is a huge waste of time and energy.

Stop thinking about peace for your own soul. Instead, start to work on restoring peace for the souls of everyone who's been affected by your affair. I think you'll find that this is the best medicine.

Affairs entail of a lot of entitlement. We think we 'deserve' to feel good because of a, b, or c. Coming out of an affair requires unhooking from the entitlement that allowed the selfish and destructive behavior in the first place.

Make it all about the people you hurt. If that means making less money and not being able to support the girls financially (which seems the opposite of making amends) than that's what it is.

You are in rebuilding mode. The affair blew up your whole life and the lives of everyone around you. It's ground zero. The sooner you realize this and embrace it, the better you'll adjust.

Let's put the financial cost of my FWH's affair in perspective:

Loss on vehicle he had sex with her in $6k
Cost of new vehicle $7k
Rent for house because he refused to leave marital home $1600x24=$38,400
Lost in monthly income due to relocation: $4k

Grand total:$ 56,400+
All because he couldn't keep his boundaries...

And that doesn't count my legal fees

Affairs cause more than physchological damage...

I agree. We are starting at ground zero. I know exactly what you are talking about and we are working desperately on the finances. I asked for a day shift position and hopefully that will come available soon. I have written everyone I complained about all the issues in our marriage a letter of sincere apology with the hopes they will support our recovery. We are moving into a smaller more energy efficient place today. I am feeling really positive in spite of how everyone views me here.

And I will say to the credit of the forum although my husband said he didn't care if I changed my phone number he did admit
It made him feel good that I did it. He felt like I went tot bat for him.

You do know the way "everyone views you here" is based on your actions and/or reactions?

Some well-respected posters here were once "foggy waywards." Once they took action to save their marriage and provide just compensation by creating a romantic, affair proof marriage they were viewed by those actions.


Remember, sometimes the only people that really care are your toughest critics.

Probably true an did I couldn't take it or Wasn't interested I would just stay off. However I keep coming back even though it sucks.

From your last 2 posts, those are all great actions!

Thank you ever 2 late!! Although there are things I probably won't ever agree with I can certainly see all the positives to MB:)

And kudos to my husband moved our entire household with two 15 year olds in the pouring rain and never lost his cool...not once:)

Moved your household? You're moving?

Yes we moved to a smaller more energy efficient place. The rent is the same but the heat bills will be way less.

And what exactly don't you agree WITH?

Let's just say me and mrs Harley have similar views about certain things but all that is in the past.

But this does not address the main problem, which happens to be the problem that PREVENTS you from recovering your marriage: SPENDING THE NIGHTS APART. Has that problem been resolved?

I know but there is just nothing I can do about that right now....

So what is the plan to fix this problem?

I asked for day shift. The other traveler leaves in oct so I should be ae to slide I to her spot. Until then we text. I don't know what else to do.

Ok, that is a small start, but how will you solve the problem of being apart overnight?

Of we can be together at night it is totally worth a hotel or camp site or even the back of the truck.