I am wondering if there is a place here to seek support as a WW who is trying to find her way back to sanity.
The OM was my highschool sweetheart I almost married when I was 18 years old. I left my husband of 15 years a year ago. I read Dr Harley's book about 2 months after that but didnt follow his advice...neither did my husband.
I feel as though I became a completely diffent person....like I had a nervous breakdown last February. The last 9 months or so have been a slow 'awakening' process for me. My husband filed for divorce shortly after I left (in May of 08) but we were going thru bankruptcy so it is just now getting finished. We are not final yet. The last 6 months have been full of regret, anguish, tears, depression, etc. I have stayed with the OM....until now. I saw something in my husband's eyes and heard it in his voice a few weeks ago....hope that he might consider reconcilliation. Until then, he had assured me nothing I could do would make any difference.
Ever since then, I have realized that I WANT so much to be a family and that I want to do whatever is necessary to get the 2nd chance I have longed for.

BUT, yes, (shielding her head and ducking) I have to go through withdrawal from the OM after a year of us being together.....

Tonight is the first night of my withdrawal after I stood strong tonight when I felt like caving and clinging to the OM. He had been out of town on business and we were so looking forward to seeing each other this weekend......but I want my family more.

I am just so nervous about being able to withstand this all weekend.....and I am looking for hope....not just for these intense feelings of withdrawal to end...but also that it will be worth it in the end.

I moved out right away last February so husband and I have lived apart for a year. Spending time with him is not an option right now until he feels assured that this relationship is over and until we get some counsel on how to proceed.

I guess I just need your prayers and encouragement as I SOOOO want to do the right thing. I hate what I have done and who I had become.....I so want to be the woman I was who would have stood in front of a train to save her family....

Do you live with the OM?

No...I live in my own apartment.

My suggestion would be to get through withdrawal and THEN see if your H is interested in reconciling. To bring him in when you are not done with your affair would be extremely cruel and would likely doom your marriage for good. Best to get through withdrawal and make sure you are really done.

Does your husband know all about the affair and know the truth of why you left him?

I know what you are saying about being done with the affair...
My husband and I spoke today and he and I both expressed our desire to see our marriage healed...I think it is coming up because our divorce is so close to being final.
We are not going to be working on our marriage per say, until the withdrawal is done and until it is clear that I am on a good path. But unfortunately, I DID draw him in today...and yes, before the affair is really completely over....thinking it was OK because I had just ended it.

He knows I have just now cutting off the relationship so I know he is very very cautiously optimistic and scared....which he should be. Of course we haven't mentioned any chance of reconcilliation to anyone....especially our children. We wouldn't do that until things were WAYYYYYYY progressed, the affair a thing of the distant past and under the advice of a marital counselor.

What should I do differently now? I see how I could so easily bring him pain again and I don't want to do that!!! What should I tell him based on your advice?

And yes, he has known everything about the affair. I told him immediately after it started. as far as why I left...did he know it was because of the OM....yes. I was very up front about everything that was going on...I didn't try to hide it. (I am not proud of any of that....I caused my loved ones tremendous amounts of pain)

I would STRONGLY advise him not to stop the divorce and to not take this seriously unless you produce a rational plan for recovery that is backed up by action and committment. He should go slow and take his time.

If the affair is truly ended and you are both committed to a PLAN of recovery, then he should take this seriously. But he would be making a mistake to make any changes at this point. Sure, he should give you an opportunity to try and turn this around, but he shouldn't make any changes until he sees something concrete.

What is your PLAN to recover your marriage if you get that opportunity? How will you protect him from this happening again?

That sounds extremely wise. I will tell him about your advice.

I do not HAVE a plan other than no contact with the OM. I want a plan. I just remembered MB tonight. I don't own Dr Harley's book but could get it at the Library tomorrow.

I am willing to be accountable to someone (I have a friend who has offered to be this person and would be great...solid boundaries and can see through the crap!)....I am willing to do whatever....i just want to know how to proceed.

I will recommend to my husband to not change anything right now...to let the divorce move forward....that time will show if the affair is truly over. Does this sound right? I just don't want him to think that I have changed my mind about anything to do with him....I guess that time will prove that though won't it??

I understand the need for a plan....and it is something that I want and need. Would the best way to go about that be reading Dr Harley's book? Is there another resource for the WS who wants to be in recovery?

Have you been wanting the D through this all until now?

Time will prove nothing. It's what you do with the time that matters.

No.I have not wanted the divorce this entire time..I know it sounds insane....but I have been more and more sad about the divorce the more time has gone by. in the beginning (last April/May) all I wanted was to be with the OM and to get married to him. But of course, now that time has passed I can look back and see how stupid I was. However, I can relate to why a "withdrawal" has to happen. The OM has been my drug....and after a few failed "attempts" at staying apart last summer, I gave up and stopped trying because trying and failing brought more pain to everyone than just saying this is who I was going to be with.
My husband (who has been the most loving wonderful man whom I do NOT deserve) cried many many tears and finally had to pick himself up, brush himself off and go on with his life....he stopped being open to reconcilliation a few months ago...but probably that is just because I never gave him any evidence that I would be in a place to reconcile.

I am confused now.....do I REALLY want to reconcile...or am I just grieving the loss of our marriage and this is just what happens???

I agree with this statement. Good point.

Hi Inshreds

Whilst I was going through withdrawl I talked to my sis lots, she ws very sympathetic but also helped me to focus on the ultimate gaol which was getting through the withdrawl.

Other MBers on here suggested:

Making lists of OMs bad points and the good points of my H.

Removing triggers from environment: clothes, music, avoiding places and people

Every time he pops into your mind visualise a stop sign.

I found this site a huge help in uncovering how awful it was and seeing how the other man wasn't suitable for me and I was living in a total fantasy. EG Most OP are years and years older or younger.

Sometimes I just paced up and down by myself chanting "I will not make contact".

Hope this helps for your first stage so that it leaves you clear to continue
ST

in shreds,

Your story sounds so much like what I went through. My cliff notes version is in my signature. I was the WW, was separated for 2.5 years, finally ended the A and then, after some time, begged my BH for reconciliation.

After I ended the Affair, I literally spent about a month just writing and thinking. I did not want to run back to BH just because I was alone, he deserved better than that.

At the time, my BH and I had a very amicable relationship, saw each other several times a week for kid swaps, we were friendly. But I don't know if my BH knew of the status of the affair or of my hopes for reconciliation.

My advice to you is get through withdrawal, figure out what in the world you are doing and how are you going to fix this mess.

DO NOT CONTACT THE OM AT ALL!!!

shreds

Have you sent a NC letter to the OM?

Have you blocked/changed emails, phones?

Has OM tried to contact you?

Can you move back in with your parents while in withdrawal to help block OM's access to you?

Do you work with OM?

To only look at trying to restore the marriage would be unfair to your husband. You may admire him as a good man, a father, a husband, and a person. But that does not mean you love him. If his love cannot eclipse the OM then get the divorce and let the poor man heal. Are you sure you are not just being selfish? That you don't want to love him. That you only want him to not stop loving you? You should not have raised his hopes about reconciliation before you broke your affair for good with the other man.

ouch, with all due respect, of course she is not in love with her H right now. She had an AFFAIR. That is what Marriage Builders purports to REVERSE. In the MB plan of recovery, the goal is to CREATE romantic love based on the concepts of MB.

In order for her to fall back in love, she has to end her affair and work on a PLAN of recovery with her husband. It it very possible that her marriage can be restored if she truly does end her affair.

ouch, which Marriage Builders books are you familiar with?

inshreds, here is an outline of what it will take to recover and a link to a good article about recovery:

excerpts from Requirements for Recovery:

The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.
here

another good read: Can't We Just Forgive and Forget?

My concern was more that she told her husband before she has gotten over the other man.

all the details of the affair, how the contact was made, the circumstances, all of the information was given to him shorty after the affair happened. This is all information he has had and is very familiar with.

My question for now is.....how long will the withdrawal last?? I know that the ties to the OM are very strong since we have built a life together over the last year.

I feel terrible now for raising even a little hope in my husband...how unfair to him. I didn't see that at the time...I only felt desperate to DO something before the divorce was final to try to save our family. What started this thing was asking him if he would agree to see a marriage counselor with me before the divorce was final to see what would be necessary for us to save our marriage. He was very resistant at first but I kept asking him telling him I wasn't asking him to change his mind about anything...but just to go see the counselor.
That was just a few days go. He told me I seem so much more like my old self...I think that is why he has opening back up a bit.
And the weird thing is, I DO feel so much more like my old sane self. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't cry about what has happened. I describe the last year as the biggest mistake of my life and if I had to do it over again I wouldn't do ANY of it.
But at the same time, I have stayed with (not lived with...) the OM.
Who does this?????????????????? I feel like a whack job!!!!!!

And yes, the OM DID call me late last night ....professing his undying love for me....telling me he understands why I would go back to try to make things right with my family but saying that he also just doesn't see how we could be apart since we haven't been in a year. He was my first love when I was 15, we dated all thru highschool, almost got married....so there is a LOT of history with him.
I didn't give in to him and stayed alone in my apartment last night. That was a major thing since he is usually here on the nights I don't have my kids.

Did your husband know about the affair before you left? And I suppose you gave him all the "fog" talk like I dont love you anymore and such?? I too am a BH spouse, just battleing through day to day..And I can tell you, I am sure you H had his heart ripped out like I did, I can tell you one thing, the lies after lies I was told, and bad mouthing me all the years toghether, and making the last 12 look like it was a mistake..Is something, I am not sure I can forgive on..

This is what I suspected and is exactly WHY I suggested that your H NOT delay the divorce. There is a huge difference between a committment to recovering your marriage and just stopping the divorce because reality has come calling. Your affair has been horrendous abuse to your H and he would be crazy to put up with any more of this. If you change and get out of that mess, sure, it wouldn't hurt to consider it. But under any other conditions, he would be crazy.

Until you are done with your affair and are ready to demonstrate a sincere committment to rebuilding your marriage, your H would be crazy to fool around with this.

You do understand there is no future with your OM, don't you? 95% of affairs crumble in under 2 years and there is an 85% divorce rate of those that do end up married. That is because all the traits that made the affair possible, thoughtlessness, deceit, destroy the affair. You and your OM do not believe in faithfulness, so when something better comes along, you can be assured you will be passed over.

Ask yourself what kind of man fools with married women? A man who doesn't respect marriage and committment, thats who.

In_ shreds

Absolutely no more contact with the other man. Please take note from my previous post on how to help with withdrawl.

I am 2 months down the line - straight away I deleted/erased all means of easy contact - phone/email. I do sometimes miss the conversation I had in the A and sharing a hobby I am passionate about but I have absolutely no feelings of love or affection for the FOM anymore. The worse bit for me was the first 3 weeks. I still have the odd I wonder what he is doing. My sis sees him once a week we avoid conversation about him, he is mentioned if he has been a total P***k which keeps affirming how wrong I was.

A speedy withdrawl depends totally on you maintaining no contact and looking for your OMs failings and avoiding anything that triggers your memory. And the strangest thing can trigger particuarly in the early days.

hope this helps

ST

Link to an update of a WW who was successful in recovering her M AFTER a divorce!
LINK

Tell us your thoughts after reading her update.

Her screen name was Hopeful_Person (her update is saved on my notable posts thread)

I do not HAVE a plan other than no contact with the OM. I want a plan. I just remembered MB tonight. I don't own Dr Harley's book but could get it at the Library tomorrow.

And yes, the OM DID call me late last night ....professing his undying love for me....I didn't give in to him and stayed alone in my apartment last night

You DID give in. You answered the phone.
I know you are trying, but you need a real plan for NC (no contact), an iron clad plan.

Change your phone number to an unlisted number.
Change your email address to one that OM does not know, or put a rule in your email that automatically deletes any messages from OM without you ever seeing them.
Ditch any cell phones.
Move to another apartment.

Yes, I'm serious.

And that is just the beginning of a plan for NC.
Do you work with OM?
Where did you usually meet and spend time together?

In shreds,

My OM was also my high school sweetheart, almost married him at 18, same ole, same ole.

Read your above post, NOTHING is going to make this crappy feeling go away easily. You want to know if it will be worth it in the end? Well, the way you are going, you may always feel like the wothless wayward who threw her loyal husband away.

You can, however, start being a repentant former wayward who is not having an affair and may have a shot at a successful relationship one day.

Whether or not it is with your BH, that is HIS decision.

"Worth it in the end", what is your definition of success? The only thing you have control of is not being a wayward anymore.

well....it's been a number of days since I was here. I read your replies and realized I was only fooling myself about really ending the A. I took your advice and told my husband that he should not stop the divorce process....that it was way too early in the withdrawal stage and I didn't know what would happen.
I asked him to forgive me for giving him hope and for being selfish AGAIN!

AS I have read your responses, I have realized just what it WILL take to end this A. Last I posted, the OM had called me late at night and I said I had "stayed strong" and stayed by myself in my apartment....you had answered that I didn't stay strong because I answered the phone!!

DUH!! I didn't even SEE that before you all called me on it! It was then that I realized I was still going on stupid, unrealistic thoughts about ending this thing. I also felt very very incapable of doing what is necessary. I ended up seeing the OM again in the next couple of days....

I have continued reading on here and realized just how much I have bought into the whole romantic fantasy thing with the OM...and just how UNTRUE it all is!! When I am with him, I think of my family ALL the time....when I am away from him, I think about how I cannot stand to be away from him. It's INSANITY!!!!!!!!!!!

It has been so helpful to read your reality checks!!!! I never ever imagined how ADDICTIVE an affair could be. I never realized how strong the attraction and the depth of sadness when trying to break away. I have never been addicted to a drug or cigarettes but I can now imagine just how difficult it is to be FREE of a strong addiction.

Your posts have given me hope that it IS possible if I have a good NC plan and follow it no matter what!!!
The OM has this "hold" on me that is bizarre and I HATE it...although there must be a reason that I am still with him.

I know this is long, but I needed to get this all out and wanted to get input. I KNOW you all won't hold back that is for sure!!

Right now the OM is out of town on business and I am going to be developing a NC letter and plan (is that what it is called??)

It feels daunting right now but continuing on with this and the repercussions of it are beginning to scare me into sanity.

Somehow, with God's help, this MUST be possible or many of you would NOT be here.

Thank you for your input, support and accountability,

In-Shreds
WW 40
BH 41
2 kids
married 16 years
A began 2/08...told H in 2/08
H filed for divorce 5/08 (not final yet)

In_shreds,

Don't you find this statement interesting
Yet, the life you built over 15 years was not strong enough to hold you to your vows. You are recognizing that your perspective on things is very very messed up right now. Pepper gave you a link to a lady who struggled to regain her marriage after her long affair and divorce from her H. Read it, absorb her pain and the long struggle.

You mentioned you have children. How old are they? Who takes care of them? Are they with you or their father? What do they think of this mess?

In_shreds, to have a plan you must first have a goal. If the goal is to save your marriage, the step one is very clear. End it with OM and stay away from him. You are indeed living a fantasy one that has deeply hurt children, family, your H, and ultimately it will hurt you more than it has right now.

Next step is for you to address your perspectives on marriage, commitment, love, and family. All are wrong right now and need to change.

Next step examine why it was easy for you to leave your H and destroy your family? Why did you not have boundaries? If you had them why didn't you protect them? What did you tell yourself that allowed you to violate your sacred vows?

Next thing realize that there is one person in this world that has less respect for marriage and family than you do...it is your OM. He has had no trouble destroying your family, and you helped him, even if now you regret it. He does not. He will most likely do to you what he did with you.

Personally, while this is not part of the MB approach to things, I would strongly recommend you decide what your moral compass really is, and if you profess to praticing a religion, you need to go back to it for guidance concerning your decisions and your future decisions.

There are many more things to say, but really it depends on what your goals really are. If they are to repair your family, then we can help. If it is to seek happiness at all costs, then it is likely we cannot help. If it is to remain with OM because you knew him in HS when you were a hormonal teenager, then again we cannot offer you a great deal. But, YOU must decide first and foremost.

Please think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Hi,I.S.:

Lots of people recover M here. Thats quite evident in the postings.

You sound sincere, and you are in a good place to be- as painful as that sounds- you know recovery AINT going to be easy.

WS get the "cr@p" kicked out of them sometimes-- but I admire that you want help.

Read everything you can. Go with your gut. Plan A the heck out of your BH- there are directions for that all over the site.

Most people say the worst of the WD lasts about 6-8 weeks. Then I have read the worst is over. But I never had to do this.

If you could get your BS to read any of the MB books, he may feel encouraged, but it is how YOU handle YOURSELF over the next few months that is going to be the deciding factor, methinks.

Good Luck to you. Chin up. It is hard, but it can be done.

Nancy

You must have absolute NO CONTACT with this POS OM.

Change your phone-#.
(this includes your work # or any other number he has)
Delete, block, change any E-Mail, facebook or Myspace accounts.
If he is likley to send you regular mail or show up at your appartment, then move.

If he works with you, or he can easily show up at your job, get another job.

You must have absolutly no contact with this human.

This includes his freinds, or any common freinds that may try to give you a message from him.

When we say NC, we mean absolutly NO CONTACT IN ANY WAY.



Let me run a few scenerios past you.

Scenerio 1
OM gives freind-X a letter to give to you becouse he is unable to contact you via phone or E-mail. Freind-X delivers this letter to you, but you dont read it. You just trash it.

Was contact made?

The answer is YES

Om was able to get the message to you that he is still thinking of you and wants contact with you. That will reset your addiction. Even though you never actually read the letter.

Scenerio 2
OM gives freind-X a letter to give to you becouse he is unable to contact you via phone or E-mail. Freind-X destroys the letter so that you never see it, but tells you that OM tried to send you a letter.

Was contact made?

The answer is YES

Om was still able to get the message to you that he is thinking of you and wants contact with you. That will reset your addiction even though you did not even see his letter.


Scenerio 3
OM gives freind-X a letter to give to you becouse he is unable to contact you via phone or E-mail. Freind-X destroys the letter and never says anything to you about it.

Was contact made?

The answer is No

OM was not able to contact you in any way. You have no idea there ever was a letter, or that he took the time to wright you. As far as you know the OM has moved to guam and is raising penguins with Al Gore. But most importantly you never even thought about OM becouse nothing was given or said to you to remind you of him.

The problem with this is almost no mutual freind will do what freind-X did in scenerio 3. So any freinds share with OM that wont run blocker for you in this way must be removed from your life.

There are hundreds of ways that OM could get to you, you must think of everyone before he does and block them.

You also have to remove any personel items of OM's from your life. Anything of his, or anything he bought you.

You will probably find this hard to believe right now but trust me that it is 100% true and anyone formerly in an affair will agree with me.

The "hold" OM has on you is not real.
The thoughts that "there must be a reason" are not founded in reality.

People in affairs FEEL the huge attraction and think that because of those strong feelings, there must be "something" there. This is a fallacy.

The reason OM has a hold on you is because you put positive energy into your relationship with OM. Even when you only think of him, you are putting your thoughts and energy into that relationship. Your thoughts and energy should be in your marriage, and in building and protecting it.

The "reason that you are still with OM" is not some cosmic force. It is not because you are soul mates. It is because you are nurturing the bond with OM. THAT is why you are still with him. Because you are allowing yourself to be. Because you are encouraging the affair in the way you think and in where you put your energies.

Every time you find yourself even thinking of OM, make a conscious effort to change your thought patterns. Some find it helpful to imagine a big red stop sign and to say "Stop!" out loud. Others find it helpful to wear a rubber band on their wrist and to snap it - hard, so it stings. Then immediately after stopping the OM thoughts, call your husband or text him or email him or write him a note or get him a little gift. Put your thoughts into your marriage.

You will be amazed at how much time and energy you are still putting into your affair. You will also be amazed at how your marriage changes when you begin putting that time and energy into simple little things that promote the marriage.

You are still very enmeshed in the affair, but you have a great capability for stepping outside yourself and your situation and considering all perspectives. I know what I write here will be hard to embrace at first, but I have confidence that you can do it, and once you manage the first few days you will become very good at it. I see great hope for you as a result.

Hey IS,

I hope you're hanging on every word from Gack and Turtle.

How is your progress?

ST

You have not mentioned your adultery partner's family or his marriage history.

Is he currently married? (that is either yes or no .... not "almost divorced")
Does he have children? (how old?)
How many times has he been married? (and divorced)
How many adultery relationships has he been a part of? (besides his adulterous relationship with you)

Thanks !

I am glad to hear that you are encouraging your husband to go through with the divorce. It was just you selfishly wanting it all without being willing to do the work and suffer the pain required. Pretty common with WS.

And of course you didn't answer my question. Do you love your husband more then the OM. Obviously not. I hope he can now be happy and find someone that will love him like he deserves.

Are still out there IS?

I too was a WW.

I know the madness of the affair thinking and the conflicting thoughts and emotions.
Sadly though the madness is one we both choose... no one put a gun to or heads... we did that to ourselves and our families.

You see we didn't just cheat on our husbands... we cheated on our whole family... kids.. mum & dad... sisters .. brothers ... we did the whole thing.

My own experience with my kids was a loss of a close relationship with my daughter for a few years. She told me quite openly she would cease all contact if a divorce went through due to my adultery. I had hurt her very deeply. Kids are not fooled at all in the long run and make their choices eventually no matter what a court may say.

I was very lucky to have a H who agreed to work on our M, but it took a long while to really engage him in the process. It took years to recover and create a new M out of my mess... the horror I had caused.

I feel that once the divorce is done you will have a very steep hill to climb and that is if your now husband (& kids) will even entertain the option of reconciliation. He may even accept that you are genuinely sorry (if that is the case) but not want a marriage with you. I feel frankly its going to be very hard for you to achieve this after a divorce. Not impossible because some have done it using the MB process and counselling... just very very hard.

While the OM is part of your life you will never have a chance at recovering your family. I would not be surprised to discover your OM stepping out on you either as time goes by as obviously he has no respect for marriage or commitment.
I mean do you really know what he does while away on business? Is he married/in a relationship himself??
Does he still live with his wife/girlfriend if so??
Do you REALLY know???? You don't live with him after all.

So in the end IS what do you have?

You have left your H and kids...
you live alone...
There is a real danger of your kids blaming you for the family break up (if they don't blame themselves in some way) ...
You have no real commitment other than a childish romantic notion of a 'perfect' relationship with an old boyfriend...
You will soon be divorced...
Its your decisions that led to all this ...

So what exactly have you gained???

I don't see anything IS. I think you even see this.

However I don't feel you are ready to give up the OM and I'm not convinced you want to marry him any longer either.

Maybe the best thing is let the divorce go through... free your h and family ... and then discover what you really want. I suspect you will sadly find down the track a bit that it may be impossible to attain if its in fact your M & family... because I do feel you are smart enough to see the facts for what they are but will leave it until its too late.

Your only chance is really to have complete non contact with OM and after withdrawal try to work out what is most important to you. But you are running out of time.

Looks like we lost another one.

I hope not, Gack. She's got a hard road ahead of her but I think she has what it takes. Hopefully she was only busy and away from the computer.

You cannot know how much that last statement "but I think she has what it takes" just meant to me....it made me cry and made me stand up straighter that I DO have the strength to do what is necessary.

Yes...all of you have been right....amazingly insightful. I don't want to marry the OM....He is even noticing.

My BH went on a date this weekend.....I had already been putting together a NC letter and plan but you all can imagine that this helped kick my brain/butt into gear.

You all challenged me to have a plan for the withdrawal time of NC.....so that is what I have been doing. I have not given him the NC letter yet because i wanted to be ready this time. My goal is to have it to him by Wednesday of this week....(within 2 days if not sooner.)

1) I am talking to my sis-in-law (brother's wife) about visiting them for a week or two. She and I have been very very close and she knows me very well. I can be vulnerable and open with her and at the same time, she will be very direct with me.

2) I can leave my phone with a friend here at home. I would take my daughter (who is only 4) with me to see her aunt/uncle and cousins. My son and I could talk via their phone. I would also take care of changing my number while out of town.

3) He doesn't have a computer or internet access and since we have been together never contact each other thru email...he doesn't even know my email address so I don't think that could be an issue.


We work for the same company even though I work from home and never have to see each other. I am thinking it would be wise for me to get another job entirely (although that stinks b/c the flexibility I have right now is allowing me to have more time with my 11 year old son...)
Let me know if you all disagree with this.

What else do I need to do?? Am I missing anything in preparing for the NC letter delivery and withdrawal period??

Gack and Turtle....someone asked if I was hanging on every word you are writing to me.....unfortunately it took me this long to READ them...but after reading them
YESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gack....great examples of what equals contact/no contact!!! Thank you!!! I wouldn't have thought THRU to that extent and now realize that I HAVE to if I am going to do this successfully!!!

Right now I am not free to plan A my BH....the divorce could be final in the next week or two and he is trying to move on. I don't want to draw him in to any of this.

Once I am past the withdrawal that is another story. I am planning to Plan A the HECK out of him if it's not too late....


1 more question: I am just acting normal with OM right now....it's difficult to do actually but I don't want to tip him off about anything until I am prepared!!!
I have broken it off with him probably 8x or more over the last year and every time I have not been prepared, committed to it, etc and have ended up back with him in a day or two.
I CANNOT afford to NOT be prepared this time!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds good I_S.

You definitely have to have covered eveything before you go into NC.

Keep posting, you'll need lots of support for a few weeks. Will SiL be able to handle it, will you have internet access there?

We'll keep lookingout for you

ST

IS,

You mentioned two children. How many children do you have? What are their ages? And what is the living arrangement between you and your H with regard to the children?

This is very important for the recovery of your marriage. The ONE thing you two share right now are the children and the history you have with your H with regard to how often they see each of you, what they have been told, and how they have been handled is going to be crucial to your recovery plan.

You are correct to make a detailed plan. you are correct to remove yourself from OM's presence and any contact. You are correct to have some one you are accountable to. My advice don't delay this separation from OM.

There is a lot of damage done already. I would strongly encourage you to read the posts by the lady that Pepperpand mentioned. Unfortunately, the search function is not functioning. But, you can find her if you search my old posts by clicking on my name and click on the bottom item of your choices which says something like "past posts". You will be confronted with a long list, but if you go back a few years you will see my posts to her. Once you find one, you can click on her name and you will see all of her previous posts. I know it is tedious, but her situation seems from what little you have posted to be very similar to yours. You can learn alot from her.

God Bless,

JL

in responnse to Just Learning:
We have 2 children. the first, a boy, is 11. the 2nd, a girl, is 4. I have my daughter 4 nights a week and my son 2 nights a week. (so for 2 of those nights I have both of them together). My son knows about the affair (unfortunately...but that is the way it is).

My BH and I actually have never been fighters and neither one dig for info on the other. We are actually very united when it comes to parenting and making parenting decisions. My son has been going to counseling 1x a week for many many months. My BH and I have gone to the same counselor for parenting counsel for him.

I will try to find the posts you are talking about.....

thank you!!

IS,

What is the plan for the children when the divorce becomes final?

Will the same disposition of time be used?

I am going to ask you another question. Do you really want to remarry your H? If so why? What do you see in him that would make him a good candidate for marriage knowing what you know of him?

You see in my mind your affair needs to end no matter what. You have no future with OM and the data is very strongly on my side when I say that. But, given that OM is out of the picture, it does not mean that your H soon to be exH is really in the running for your affections and commitment. You MUST make that decision and it must be made based on your H's strengths and weaknesses.

Once you really decide this, then the next thing to address is your H's feelings. You really don't have a clue how deeply you have hurt him. I know that because you are still putzing around with your feelings for OM, hence you really don't have a clue about many important things and will not until you get through withdrawal.

But, at some point you are going to have to develop a plan to address your H, even if remarriage is not in the cards. We can help you with that, but we need to know where your decisions are taking you.

God Bless,

JL

PS: I found h_P's first thread. Click on the bookmark hopeful_person

I found this by going to my old posts, you can get there by clicking on my name, and then the search function actually worked. This was in GQ, others are in recovery. You already have h_p's update from Pep, here is where it started.

Yes, the same schedule will hold true after the divorce.

And yes, you are correct and I agree wholeheartedly that the affair needs to end no matter what happens with my husband. It has taken the most time to come to this realization.

My husband has many many wonderful qualities. I have been a fool to not value those. He has loved me even while I was sleeping with someone else and giving the OM my affections. He has good boundaries with me but has never spoken ill of me with our children. He has been a very committed father throughout all of this and has sought their well-being and protection at all times. He has extended mercy to me in such Christ-like ways without becoming a doormat.
Of course, he has his flaws, but nothing that is abusive or not acceptable.

Having said that, I understand that I may never get the chance for reconcilliation with him EVEN if the NC plan happens flawlessly.
I have come to the realization that at THIS stage, I must end this relationship with the OM because it is a wrong relationship built on the pain and at the cost of others.

A very good friend pointed out that I need to heal enough that I CAN be alone. That used to scare me to death and I wasn't even willing to think about it. Now I am still scared....but the alternative scares me more and I know I can heal and get past the fear.

Right now my eyes are focused on the NC plan. It is almost finished.

I just spoke to my sis-in-law and they have agreed that I can come under the conditions that I presented:
1) No cell phone, no unsupervised trips where I may be tempted to use a public phone
2) No email contact (she will check my email when necessary)
3) Complete honesty/vulnerability

If these things do not happen, I have to go home.


I am planning on taking my 4 year old daughter because
1) She has a very difficult time b/c of the last year going more than 2-3 days without seeing me (and I too!)
2) I love the reality reminder as I am very motivated to be my best when I am around my precious children. Keeps me grounded.
3) My sis-in-law and brother have not seen her much and would love to spend time with her as well.

Does this sound OK to you all???


Also...about my job....I told my mom about my NC plan today. She of course if baffled by how anyone could need such an elaborate plan to stay away from someone who has brought nothing but pain (of course, everyone is baffled by that, including me!). She is concerned about me quitting my job (working for the same company as OM even though we don't work in the same location...I am concerned about those who have known us as a couple talking about him, how he is doing, etc) because I am barely making it financially as it is now.

I am right about needing to quit, aren't I???
Don't know who I could move in with if I needed to...I think i have burned too many bridges over the last year with my "failed attempts" at breaking it off. But I just have to believe that if I start making wise choices and get on the right path, that God will provide the answers to those questions...

Is this correct thinking???

IS,

The biggest issue is no contact. Then find a new job. You will be a divorced woman with financial responsibilities, so a new job and a better paying job will probably be necessary, but NC is a MUST.

I hope you read hopeful_persons posts. Once you go to the one I bookmarked you can click on her name and see the rest. I would recommend reading some of her's near the time of reconcilliation, which is new years of 03 I believe.

Yes, the affair must end for yourself, and your children. You chance of reconcilling with your H depends greatly on how you see him know, and how he handles the deep and devastating damage you have done to him.

God Bless,

JL

Ok....so the NC just started a little sooner than planned....the OM stopped by here today (I didnt' know he was coming by) and while I was going to wait to give him the NC letter on Wed when my plan was complete, he started talking about moving in together, etc and I just had to tell him what I had decided. I told him not to contact me at ALL, no phone, no email, no stopping by, no giving other people messages for me, etc. He didnt' expect it...but he was surprised either.

Anyway, I am a little freaked out because I am working from home tonight and my job is making appts for insurance agents and requires my phone.....I have to have my phone tonight for making those calls and I am worried about if he tries to call me tonight!! I won't answer it BUT my original plan was to leave my phone here as I would be travelling to Minnesota and changing my phone number while away so when I got back it would be a new number.....

I just need extra support and encouragement tonight.....I am so hopeful that my life is going to change and I am getting back on a good path again....but I am so scared of failing again as well!!!

Be gentle with me tonight...but don't hold back what NEEDS to be said!!

Phew...

Done. Can you turn your phone off in between the calls you make?

You can do it, just keep yourself busy, it'll be fine. Can you get his number blocked?

IS,

you said
Failure is not an option. And I can assure you that your life is going to change and it will be for the better. How can I say this. You will become a woman of integrity again. You will become a woman that your daughter can admire again. You will become a better person that your son can admire again. And you have taken the first step toward true happiness with either your H or someone new in your life. You deserve to live in honesty and it is time you demanded this of yourself.


What needs to be said is that this is not about odds or chance. It is about determination in the face of temptation. You will be tempted sorely, but if you have the determination to become a woman your children can and will respect you can do this. Trust me your H isn't the only good man out there. Trust me also your OM is not a good man or a man good for you or your family. How proud would you be if your son grew up to be like OM. A man that does not value marriage, does not value vows and honor, does not value a woman and her marriage? You think about this very carefully.

You are a role model for both of your kids.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

I am so crying right now Just Learning.....
I do not know where I would be without you and the others on here right now....
I DO believe I can DO THIS and that failure is NOT an option!!! You are SOOOO right!!
I also feel lighter and when I think about the future, I am feeling hope serious hope for the first time in a very long time!!

I am going to explore blocking his number...good idea!! thanks!

My Mom told me she is proud of me for the 1st time in a very long time as well today. I cried AGAIN!

I DOOOO so want to be a woman of integrity again....a woman who my daughter can look up to....in fact, I just said this to a friend earlier today as one of my key motivators. Thank you for reinforcing that for me.

Determination in the face of temptation....determination in the face of temptation.....determination in the face of temptation.....
SUCH good stuff....!!!!!!!!!

Back to the question. DO YOU LOVE YOUR (EX)HUSBAND? I am not. You are avoiding the question like the plague.

I am so sorry....I have not meant to avoid the question at all!!! I DO love him very very much but I hesitate to say that because if I DO, then why have I treated him so horribly and unlovingly???
I honestly feel inappropriate saying it at this stage...because my past actions don't say that.

I DO love him....and I pray for the opportunity to act lovingly toward him. He deserves a Godly woman of integrity who treats him with respect, honor and dignity.
I am working and praying to become that woman again.

My heart's deepest desire is for reconcilliation with him.

But I do not want to act selfishly ANY more....that will be his choice.

Hope that makes sense.

I am sitting here, listening to the rain pouring down outside and it feels as though it is raining down on ME....and there is refreshment...

This is a new place for me.
I am humbled.

Because now that you have put a voice to your love. You won't want to take half measures, or be guarded. Now. Have you told him?

Ouch,
no....I don't want to tell him until after I know the withdrawal is over.
I want some history behind me so that he knows he can "trust" the recovery is for real.
I feel like that is the most loving thing I can do for him right now..........stop talking and start living it.

Who do you think is your BIGGEST CHEERLEADER right now?

All Blessings,
Jerry

I can understand that. May I make a suggestion. Start writing him love letters. Don't give them to him. Call it a way of journaling your love. I think it will allow you to focus your love for him and help in healing from your NC with the OM. I could imagine you giving them to him when you do tell him that you love him. Just an Idea.

Rooting for ya!

Ouch....
What an incredible idea!!! thank you, thank you, thank you.

Shine through....I have been hearing that from Him tonight. Thank you for reminding me!! I can tell you have experienced the same kind of cheering!

By the way, I waited until I knew my kids were down for the night and wouldn't be calling (they are with their Dad tonight)and then I turned my phone OFF for the night.
Yay!

this will be a hard time for you and it will be full of temptation to contact the OM. ANY excuse will come to mind .... Oh he should pick up this thing he left here .... any other excuse will come to mind... hundreds .... just DON"T.

Also remember that he is as addicted to you as you are to him.

Right now he believes that as before you will reneg on your decision and welcome him back after a week or two.

Once he realises its more than that he will likely try to contact you some way. So try to have his phone blocked and even see if moving to another unit/flat is viable.

You CAN do this.... you are strong enough ... failures in the past mean nothing now... the only thing that is important for this is
NC to work!!!

Thank you aussieswife! I am eating up all the wisdom you all are giving me and it is like water to a person who is in the desert!!

I DID it!! I made it through the night and am so incredibly peaceful.....I feel better than I have in a year. I know there will still be plenty of hard times and temptation so I am not letting any guard down!!!....it's just a moment I am relishing. I KNOW I can do this now and I have not KNOWN that since this whole nightmare began (that I started, I know).

I am leaving for my brother and sis-in-law's on Friday and will stay for a week or so.
The weekends will be the hardest testing time for me....the OM and I had lots of regular things we did together on the weekends. SOOOO, I am timing it so the next 2 weekends I will be at my brother's house (it is about 8 hours away).

I am taking my daughter with me and from tonight until I leave, I am going to spend some special time with my son....tonight will be one on one. It will be a little hard on him for me to be gone so long BUT not nearly as hard as having the OM in my life.....he has known about it and it has been very distressing to him....another reason I am resolved for NC!!!

I know I am posting long posts right now but it just helps so much to spill all that I am feeling and thinking. It also helps so much to get your feedback, suggestions, encouragement, etc.


I am changing my phone number this morning as well...just in case you were wondering! ;-)

What a wonderful day....God is good and there is hope!

I'm a newbie here, and a newly BS....I just wanted to say I have TONS of respect for the way you are handling this, making changes in yourself, and making an honest effort at just compensation.

I will pray that you succeed in your efforts and stick around...FWW's are a valuable resource for those of us who want to hear psychological persective on our WS's.

drscott-
I cannot tell you how much what you said means to me. I SO want to honor and respect my BH....I will probably need more input on THAT so YOU can be a resource for ME as well.

Thank you for your kindness. I would be glad to give you my 'perspective' or help with any insight into the "fog" that is probably enveloping your WW. I know she is probably almost unrecognizable to you right about now.
I will pray for you both.

Yay!! We *didn't* lose you.

Your motivations are SO right. So many waywards come here and their goal is to win back their spouse. Their focus is selfish. They want to win back the spouse because it will make them (the wayward) more comfortable and happy.

Your motivation is regaining your integrity and that is a real and strong motivation. I am very proud of you, and you should be proud of yourself.

You may or may not reconcile with your H, but you CAN get yourself back. The self you're proud of. The self you rejoice in.

Turtlehead...thank you for your encouragement! Means a LOT!!

I have a question/dilemna....

my plan is to go out of town this Friday (taking my 4 yr old with me) to my Brother's house 8 hrs away. I am doing this as a part of my NC plan. the weekend is hardest b/c that is when OM and I spent a LOT of time together and had regular routines, etc.
I had to ask my husband if he would mind me taking my daughter with me to my brothers (he doesn't know why I am going).
He said that would be fine but that there is a Father/daughter dance on Sat that he would rather not miss with his daughter.

I am so torn...I don't want to rob him of that time with her (or her with him) BUT at the same time, I feel that leaving on Friday is imperative for the NC plan to be strong.
If I DON'T take my daughter with me, it will stress him in the long run because he will have both kids for a week (not to mention the effect on the kids esp my daughter).

I feel like missing the father/daughter dance will be a small sacrifice when compared to the long range benefit of a strong NC plan....
but I don't want to act selfishly and want to make sure I am looking at this from a proper perspective.

My H was open to me taking her and missing the dance if he had to.....

thoughts?

Will it really stress him having them both? Will it really have a bad affect on the kids?

Or will it just be hard for you to leave DD?

ST

It is actually VERY stressful on him....he had them both for 4 days in a row a couple of weeks ago and he was about ready to pull his hair out and asked me to come get my daughter early (we were trying a new schedule where we each get a weekend a month with the kids for the entire weekend...thru that transition he ended up having them longer than we have gone before and he was really stressed!).

He is really struggling with energy right now because he has had some depression (gee...I cannot imagine why!) and they have been switching meds on him.

Also, my daughter especially gets very very anxious if she doesn't see me for that long.
Unfortunately, when I began the A, I was really out of my normal mind and in a deep fog and I left town with the OM and didn't see my kids for a couple of weeks. That, as you can imagine, was devastating to them. even after I came "back" in town, I was living with friends or the OM and so they didn't get to spend much time with me. (it kills me to write this b/c of the pain I know I caused all of them!!! Makes me so mad at myself!!)

So for the last 6 months I have been working very hard on being predictable and dependable with their time with me. Whenever that changes, it seems to cause much anxiety esp with my 4 year old.

long explanation but hopefully, it made sense.

Ok it makes a lot of sense NOT to be around your flat on the Friday because you are probably right the OM will attempt contact.

So the prime aim is to be AWAY from the unit.

Your plan originally meant you would travel 8 hours to get to Sister right?

OK is there any chance at all you could offer your H a deal ..... H I know the dad/daughter dance really means a lot to you and our DD so as I really need to be out of the unit from Friday (you could say its part of your therapy ... because NC is pretty central to it ...without saying its NC) could I instead babysit DS at your home and sleep on the couch and then be able to run DD and myself down to my sisters the following day?

Yes its a bit of a possible problem for your H and I'm not sure how he would handle it but perhaps you could sound him out about it in a subtle way. You obviously don't want to upset anything right now with either the kids or your H but it is perhaps one way to get around staying at the unit and maintaining NC.
I would caution you of the need to handle this delicately.

Give it a thought and see how it goes.

I feel it may cause real damage if you took off without explaining your NC plan to your H and on top of everything else no matter what he says .... how much of a hill do you want to climb????

My concern is that he may be more 'worn' out than perhaps he presents and just can't do another 'argument' or 'discussion' so he reluctantly agrees but all the while thinking 'selfish b*tch'
and no matter what comes out later he will only relate to the negative. Perhaps a BS can give an insight on that one.

You would need I feel to give him some truth if nothing else works out. Again ask a BS and see how they would react in the circumstances.

I don’t understand all the secrecy and machinations around this NC plan.

As a BS I now hate, absolutely detest, any secrecy, lies of omission, pretends, lack of clarity, anything whatsoever to do with anything less than Total Radical Honesty. In anything and in everything! (You have read SAA and HNHN, right?)

Secrecy can no longer be justified even “for my own good.” After all, that’s justification adulterers use all the time – lying, omissions, sleight of hand and foggy dialogs to prevent further hurt to the BS. Hah, it is to laugh. That is bs too…

So just tell him what you are doing. His heart is already broken. Pretending to yourself you don’t want to break yet another little piece off is hogwash. Treat him like a sentient being.

Anything less is ultimately selfish, regardless of your professed motives.

very very good insight and suggestion.

My H JUST called and wanted to talk about the weekend....he was concerned b/c he didn't have any details or insight into where I was and what I was doing.
I briefly outlined that this was a part of my NC plan (he is a familiar with MB).
He said, in light of that, it was NO problem to miss this Father/Daughter dance....he said "after all, I would just be watching her get all sugared up and dance like a crazy person...all while trying to keep her dress clean. And what do we get for that? A picture of the 2 of us with the date at the botoom! We can miss a year."

I'm telling you...he is a good, good man. I have been a stupid, stupid woman....but I am working on correcting that!

Quit my job today (figured out that even though I don't have to see the OM, it's still too entrenched with thoughts, memories, experiences of the 2 of us together) and am off to look for a new one!!! It's scary but I realized today just how necessary as part of NC.
I am realizing the importance of getting rid of ALL reminders that I can control. when i first read about this part, I just thought that it sounded extreme and unnecessary.....
it IS extreme but OH SO necessary to get thru withdrawal.

OH....and I went to Walmart today and happened to walk down an aisle that had an air freshener that brought back all kinds of memories......I USED THE IMAGINING THE STOP SIGN THING and it was awesome!!!! I've used it a few times today. THANK YOU!! It works!!!

IS,

I don't know how often these Daddy/Daughter dances occur in your area but it is only once a year for me and it is absolutely precious to me. I would be very upset if my wstbxw asked to take that away from me. Not sure if your BH feels this way or not but you should assume that he does and figure out an alternative.

I totally agree with AW. You need to get away from your apartment starting on Friday. Is there some other friend you can stay with? Would your BH allow you to sleep on the couch at his house as AW suggested? Think long and hard about this. There must be some other alternative that will get you out of the house starting on Friday but allow your BH to still have those special moments with his daughter.

Mindshare

Oh, good, good, good.

Keep it up, you will be free of him

ST

One more quick observation. Then I will stay off your thread. (Posting on WS threads is rather painful.)

Learn what true love really is. Get past all this feelings crap you so seem to live for. True love has very little to do with romantic feelings. Those are endocrine responses evolved for the purpose of procreation. Nothing more than evolution at work through reptilian brain chemistry. Kind of disgusting, actually, when you think about it.

True love is action. True love is keeping promises, no matter what. True mature love is acting with integrity no matter what you may happen to feel at the time.

It does not necessarily have to feel good to love truly.

I just read through your thread and wanted to tell you how great you are doing. I know it must be difficult, but you will be so proud of yourself when you are free of OM even if you can't restore your marriage. (But I'm hoping you can). Your children need a good strong moral mother and they will respect you coming back from this terrible year of a huge mistake. At some point you can apologize to your children (especially the 11 yo) for the pain you caused everyone.

For now--just keep on with the fine fight. You can do it.

IS,

Listen carefully to Aph's posts. He is offering you some very valuable advice from the other side. I also like the other advice you have been given. You have options, but you don't have an option when it comes to honesty and integrity. You must be both, and you must be open with your H even if he becomes your exH. He is the father of your children and he needs to be operating with as much as information as he can when it comes to the children.

I like the idea of you staying at his house for the father/daughter dance, and then leaving. Another option is you go to your families place, but have your H drive up with your daughter. A "road trip" might be enjoyed by both of your children.

All of this can be discussed with your H. Aph is right your H has already been crushed, being honest with him and open to discussing things with him will NOT hurt him further in any permenate way.

You are making good choices keep it up.

God Bless,

JL

Great job to tell your H the NC plan and losing the job!

It is better to be totally honest though I do remember the absolute frantic and panic behaviour I had where you are now in not doing any more damage to my H and family.

I did some lunatic things when really all I had to do was be right upfront but NO ONE could tell me that in those moments. You'll get over that phase.

My H most times just told to take deep breaths and then calmly tell him whatever I was thinking of doing. which was a good thing because some were pretty crazy.... ok a lot crazy.

But I was terrified of stuffing the littlest thing up.

I feel you have a good man as a H. Don't loose faith in yourself or him. Get NC in place and see where it leads. But right now ... NC!!!!

Why not ask if you can sleep on the sofa so BH and daughter can do the dance? Then you will leave Sunday morning with DD for your brothers.

I will think about what all of you have said.

I will double check with my husband but I really think he doesn't mind about the dance now that he understands the reason. But just in case, I will talk to him about it and put the option of leaving Sunday morning on the table.

And I definitely want to be upfront with him. In fact, I have to hold back with telling him everything because I want to respect his feelings/emotions and he has asked me to not share everything with him b/c it makes it harder for him. He has needed to have distance from me...and of course that was appropriate before.

Remember that we have lived apart and had separate lives for almost a year now. I think that once the NC/withdrawal has some clean history behind it, he will feel safer with knowing more/talking more.

well.....it happened and I wasn't prepared even though I should have been.
The OM came to my door this afternoon. I was working and on the phone and when he knocked I thought it was my landlord and I opened the door without even thinking it could be him.
Then I just froze...I couldn't look him in the eye....I asked him to please leave and he was so upset and crying.
DAMN IT!!!!! I stood there and listened to his professions of love(I KNOW that was NOT what I should have done!!) and my heart started to melt(only for a few seconds!)....but I kept imagining the stop sign!!! I told him not to contact me by any means anymore and how important this is to me.....he said he wouldn't and that he just had to know that I was serious. (DUH! He KNEW I changed my phone number because he said he tried to call me!!)

I really didn't think he would come by so soon..I thought if I could just get away (to my brother's) after working at my other job on Friday morning that I would be safe. I really didn't think it would intensify until the weekend.

This knocked the wind out of my sails. I am not giving up or giving in or going back but DAMN IT! I am so MAD at myself for opening the door, for listening to him....for feeling sorry for him.(momentarily)
I don't really feel sorry for him OR for me.....after all, think what my H has gone thru....I cannot imagine HIS pain or betrayal or loss or agony. I cannot imagine what he has endured and he had NO say in any of it.

SO...now I know....and I don't want ANY more steps backward. I will always check the peephole before opening the door. I will never answer if it is him and will pretend I am not there.

I saw my husband tonight when I dropped off my son (we went to see a movie together) and I was so struck by all this man has endured and yet he treats me so decently. Now THERE is a man of courage and character.

Back to resolution in the face of temptation. SO difficult but SO essential.

Quick, go and write your husband one of those love letters. Get your mind off the OM.

Did you tell your BH that you saw the OM when you talked to him this afternoon?

ok there was some good you can take out of this attempt from the OM to get you back ... you didn't give in to the addiction and become his OW again. You used the mental stop sign.

The bad news is that the actual contact all by itself feeds your own internal addiction even when you did not fall for him again. There will be for some time a secret longing.... if you want to call it that... that wants the OM to come call on you...ask about you .... etc etc... and this you will need to watch carefully.

I suspect you have had conflicting thoughts about the OM... one saying good let it end.. the other thinking well he may call on me tonight and its not MY fault if he does. That's normal at this stage so keep yourself aware of the self deceptions you set yourself up for.

OM WILL more than likely try to contact you repeatedly.

continue to be strong but be aware every contact takes you back a step. Its when the thought of the OM appearing or knowledge about him is an annoyance... that's your first response.... do you know you are creeping out of the addiction.

when you begin to see the huge gaping holes in OM's integrity and personal boundaries and realise that compared to most other adults he is lacking... not just to your H .... you'll see him clearly at last. You won't feel sorry or regretful because you will know he like you CHOOSE to take this path and all the damage it caused and didn't care. And the difference here is that he still doesn't care!

now back onto NC plan implementation!!!

Good luck on the job hunt.

good idea, ouch, I am going right after I post this!!

No...I didn't tell my H because he is not who I am accountable to right now. he doesn't want to know anything about this process and has asked me to leave him out.

I DID tell the other 2 people who are walking with me thru this AND I posted it here.

aussieswife....you are such a wise insightful person!! I am drinking in what you say. i will be watching myself for the things you mentioned. I am looking forward to the time when NO part of me wants him to contact me EVER and is annoyed by the very thought of it.

the only positive I see is that I really did have this thought when I fist opened the door..."NO NO NO!!! I am doing so well!! Don't mess with me!!! I don't want to start withdrawal all OVER!!"
it wasn't the only thought I had unfortunately....but it was the first!!

by the way, the other 2 people I am accountable to are both female...just to make that very clear!!

IS,

Trust me on this your OM will try again. Why? Because he does not respect boundaries and he does not respect you. He did not respect your marriage, he does not respect your H, your children, and for that matter you. He did not worry at all who he hurt as long as he got what he wanted and that was you.

Now you may be flattered by this, but if I were you I would realize this is like be befriended by a drug addict because you have money. When you cannot deliver, the drug addict will find somewhere else to get what he needs.

You made some horrific decisions, but you are trying to set them right. OM made some horrific decisions and he is trying to perpetuate them. Your children have been deeply hurt by both of your decisions. He clearly is NOT bothered by his role in this although you are finally starting to see the light.

It is time you saw the OM for who he really is...a man with no respect for other people or their families.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

You may have to get a restraining order. To make him get the message.

Just Learning....Yes.....I began to see this a few months ago but the scope of it is really just starting to hit me. You are so, so right. and yes, I WAS flattered by this...how sick is that????!!!!
He told me that he had loved me since he was 14 years old and I have always been the woman for him.
It's "romantic" talk but the reality is not romantic at all....it's devastating. But I sure fell for it!!!!
I just thank God that He cleared away the fog enough for me to begin to see the truth in the situation.

I have been such a fool.

Today is a new day...Determination in the face of temptation.

I started this last night!! Very very good exercise!! This is just one of the treasures I have already gleaned from you all.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

This is the second time I've posted these questions. Please answer them. Thanks.

You have not mentioned your adultery partner's family or his marriage history.

Is he currently married? (that is either yes or no .... not "almost divorced")
Does he have children? (how old?)
How many times has he been married? (and divorced)
How many adultery relationships has he been a part of? (besides his adulterous relationship with you)

My version:


Because he YOU does did not respect boundaries and he YOU does did not respect you OM. He YOU did not respect your marriage, he YOU does did not respect your H, your children, and for that matter you yourself. He YOU did not worry at all who he YOU hurt as long as he YOU got what he YOU wanted and that was you OM.

It is time you saw the OM YOURSELF for who he YOU really is are ...a man woman with no respect for other people or their families.

God Bless,

JL Pep

You see Shreds, we can call the adultery partner a scoundrel all day long, but remember, whatever OM was or did , you were/are equally culpable.

And I want to hear how your choices have impacted OM's wife (or X wife) and his children, if he has them.

It is part of who you are. And part of how you got where you are.

So, blurt out the whole embarrasing truth. All at once.

you know, Pepperband, I totally get what you are saying...and yes, all those things are true. But nobody has been harder on me than me and right now all that self loathing and beating myself up does is make me want to give up.
Yes, that may be feeling "sorry" for myself....I certainly don't want to do that for long.

I know it's easy (and appropriate) to get really angry at the OP or the WS. But those of us who DO come out of the fog and DO choose to get back on a good path deal with HUGE amounts of regret and pain for all we have done. There is NO way to undo it....NO way to turn back time, NO way to put the pieces of our loved ones hearts back together in a way that won't forever show deep scars.

And we weep, and weep, and weep for all of that. (as we should)

I am taking this one moment at a time and the thing that derails me fastest is the guilt....and the pain of knowing that I have caused all of this pain for them.

I am MORE than aware of my responsibility in all of this. I have never blamed my H for any of it. I have never laid the blame on the OM....I definitely see his responsibility but I am trying to own all that is mine though I am sure I have more to learn about that.

Call things as you see them...but pounding me over the head with it is just very discouraging right now.

I will answer your other questions tomorrow when I have a better, more rested brain...but honestly right now I feel like you are just waiting for the answers so that you can point out more hurt that I have caused....hurt that I am well aware of....very very well aware of.

I will tell you that no, he is not married. He was for 16 years and other than me, he has only ever been with his wife sexually.

Right now, this doesn't feel like a safe place to be open and vulnerable and I really thought it would be so that I too can try to heal even as I try to heal my family.

Your anonymous, and right now your typing on keyboard to someone you'll never meet unless you wanted too. Your safe.

You should really think WHY pepperband is even bothering to post to you when she could be out driving her porshe and making sweaters for the grandkids, ANYTHING but helping her fellow human beings overcome thier misery.

She posts to you because this place her helped her and shes paying it forward. Shes helped alot of us with her thoughts, wisdom and humor. She has taken her time as have alot of us, to help others like you and me be better people.

I have been keeping up with your thread as well and I really am rooting for you, please consider pepperband as the angel on your shoulder.

Shes been mine on occasion, even when what she said ticked me off.

I needed to read it.

BS...And I don't mean betrayed spouse.

Keeping your options open, huh?

I appreciate that is how you feel. Allow me to quote something written by another MBer, Weaver (now Weaves).


As I said, I appreciate that what I've written doesn't make you feel nice. I noticed you identify yourself as a FWW. If you are a FORMER WAYWARD WIFE - what does that mean? Does it mean you won't allow your feelings (however hurt you are) to stop you on your quest to reunite your family?

The road ahead is tough (tuff tuff tuff) and not for the squeamish. You will need to be face to face with reality and not back away if you don't feel "safe".

What difference does it make if you feel "safe" here with a bunch of strangers? It makes ZERO difference for your recovery.

Talk about how you concern yourself with how "safe" your husband and your children feel ... and you will get a ton of support. Concentrate your efforts on making THEM safe, and then you will truly be a FORMER wayward.

Hi In-shreds,

We've all taken a bit of a beating and it does seem cruel when you are trying so hard to do the right thing and feeling so bad about yourself, and you just need people to be behind you and I have been in floods of tears after reading a couple of replies on my threads and so angry that everyone seems to misunderstand.

...But after you've slept on them you have a much better understanding and appreciate the sentiment behind them.

Don't give up on us. You are doing a great job and you will continue to do so.

I remember the times I did take a beating I wanted to give up on the NC but I didn't -see it as a test to check your commitment to NC and prove to yourself that you really do want it.

How are your plans for the weekend?

ST

no...truly, he said that if I include him in any of this process it is hurtful to him and he doesn't want to be dragged in or know any part of it. He specifically asked me to not share ANY of the process with him.
As far as he is concerned, we are divorced...it is only a matter of days before it is final.
This is more a matter of me changing my life and in the future if he decides he wants to be back together, that is up to him. But right now this isn't about saving our marriage as far as he is concerned.
He is dating again and moving on with his life. And I don't blame him a bit for doing that. He deserves it!

Well, he shouldn't be dating. Not until the divorce is final. Until then he is still married, actually.

This isn’t just a nitpick at such a late date in the proceedings either. It’s for his own future happiness. He shouldn’t get serious with anyone, not even you, for about two years. He’s going to be shedding a lot of baggage and it takes about that long, or so I hear.

He does indeed deserve a much better anything and everything than what you have given him. But he is not going to find it sniffing around like a dog in heat.

You are probably not the one to tell him this though.


BTW, there is a lot of fog in your posts. Even now. FWIW.

I'm soo glad you feel this way. Its totally up to the BS whether or not they want to end the M and move on. He is well within his rights.

I for one am delighted to see him moving forward with life.
What a pity you couldn't see all this before you put him through the ringer with you're self indulgent agenda. Oh well......karma is indeed a beautiful thing.

I am a BS and would like to know if you don't mind sharing, what needs were you not getting met by your BS? and what was it like for you in the fog? and did you think that this affair was the best thing that ever happen to you, and how did you manage to pull yourself together to go back home. and what happened to the op? What happened within that year?

The reality NEVER lives up to the fantasy. Thats what happened! Same old story

in his defense, he has had 2 'dates' that other people have set him up on....not because he had the interest as much as they want to see him move on. He has never sniffed around like a dog in heat.

I don't think either one of us were meeting each other's emotional needs for a long time...and we were completely unaware...or if we were aware at all, we felt like they were needs we shoudln't have and just tried to bury those feelings.

I know I longed for conversation!! I longed for times of just connecting and having him be interested in what was going on in my head and heart. Every time I would try to talk to him just casually he would say he was too tired or would try to act interested but it would only last a couple of minutes. I know that we are built differently when it comes to conversation....but I was hoping for some time to connect with him.(this is NO excuse for an affair...I should have talked to him, found a way to express these needs, suggested we talk to a counselor, tried to find out HIS needs and how I could meet those!!!)

Hmmmm....did I think the affair was the best thing that ever happened to me? of course now the answer is absolutely NOT...it was one of the worst. Maybe I did at the time...I honestly cannot remember because I was deeply in the fog and don't remember a lot about that time.
I am NOT at home....it may be too late for that.
The guilt, shame and remorse weigh heavily after a long period of time and that can be pretty powerful in helping you "pull yourself together"...getting and really acknowledging the depth of the pain you have caused others makes you want to try to make things right.

Just out of curiosity, did any of your family enable the A or were they completely against it and tried to tell you?

You are still so deep in the fog I'm amazed you can see in front of you

My mom and brother definitely made their opinions known that they were against it. My Sis and my Dad were concerned and said they were concerned because it was very very out of character (believe it or not...you can argue with me all day about this but before the affair I never would even allow myself to be alone with someone of the opposite sex no matter what the circumstance because I have always felt you should protect your marriage at all costs...even the appearance of something not right...and this was something we agreed to before we got married and lived by it for 15 years)and they thought something had happened to me. My friends tried to get me checked in to a mental hospital because they thought I had developed a serious personality disorder.
They ALL said I didn't even LOOK the same....it was like aliens had come in the night and taken me away and replaced me with the WW....the FOG was very very dense!!

apprently from a comment earlier, I still have some fog....who knows when it will all be gone.

Shreds. You need to not say stuff about how you were. That person is gone. Gone forever. You can not get her back. And your husband will never see her again. The only thing you can do is move forward from where you are. Your husband basically has to fall in love with a different woman. Because the last woman almost destroyed. him. This new you. Has to woo him and court him and earn a place in his heart. Continue writing him letters.

You also need to understand that in the future he will have triggers that remind him of your cheating. Events like cheating in movies. Or in a song. The mention of a name. Or even smells. You will have to learn to accept and deal with these. You will also have to make sure, if you go to movie, that you know what it is about. Or you will have a bunch of ruined evenings. Good luck.

Why do you say this? What am I saying or doing?? I really need your help because that is scaring me!!

You are not going to just snap out of it but that doesnt mean you cant be strong. From what I've read here, a year in a year out...or something like that.


ETA: I think it was the dont remember part. That is a big part of the fog

That is weird about the fog thing because the further away I get, the more I don't remember about how I felt because I don't connect or relate to what I was thinking and feeling then....back then I could tell you exactly...
People will tell me things I said during that time and I just look at them like "what???!!! How in the world could I have said something like THAT!!! Who was i??"

I BELIEVE that I said those things because I KNOW I was in a very very very bad place....but I have no memory of it. They are things I would never even THINK now...much less say.

I would surprised if you were fully out of the fog by now.

You admit yourself that the OM still holds some attraction for you but you now realise its a long term addiction that will hurt YOU and your kids. That too at this stage is not unexpected.

Its a process that takes time and you will just have to work through it for as long as it takes.

However I have to agree that though I remember an a lot of the fog times now in hindsight..... I do not remember exact words or excuses or crap I spewed out. Have I deliberately blocked it out? Maybe don't know.
I totally accept I said the comments because all of my family state very clearly I did. I don't see the value of trying to remember them either... I simply accept I did and I do have to live with it. They are now very embarrassing and seem the comments of a child who can't get its own way. But them's the facts like it or not.

no dating he's still married, best no dating until one year after the divorce.

I'm curiouse.

How would you propose that In Shreds convay to her BS/STBXH that he can't date untill they are divorced, and shouldn't for atleast a year?

He may not be very receptive to this idea comming from his adulterous STBXW.

I understand that what you are saying is for his own good. But you present it as if she is in controll of what he can and cant do.

Gack

It's easy to say what's right. To convince is another thing.

well....I am back. Have tried a couple of times to get on and the site was down...
in between I have been in a major major struggle between good and evil...between false and real recovery.
REAL recovery is going to prevail....if it kills me!! (and there are many parts of me that need to die!!)

I will explain more tomorrow....am very very tired tonight.

I AM NOT GOING to let my past stupidity determine my and my families' future!!!!! It WILL NOT win!

I_S,

I look forward to hearing what has been up.

JL

Me too.

well...bottom line is....I lost this perspective for a bit. The OM kept coming by my house and my resolve started to weaken....our "friends" we have made over the last year as a couple kept saying "but you love each other...your marriage is over anyway....why would you throw away someone who loves you when you aren't even getting back with your husband" and I started to believe these things...though somewhere inside was screaming "THESE ARE LIES!"

I also started truly believing that I couldn't do it...I couldn't stay away and I was just going to hurt everyone ALL over again so why even try.

SO.....I went back to being with the OM. I thought to myself "I just need to let go of this marriage, mourn the dreams we have had and the ending of what we wanted for our family and MOVE ON for everyone's sake". For 1 day I felt Ok about that.....but then the turmoil started in my stomache again. All the character flaws in the OM and myself that allowed us to get to this point became NEON lights!! When I would point them out(my own included), the OM of course would argue them away...but I had already seen the truth and couldn't argue or reason it away.

Next, I started to just say, well, this is what you deserve....you can't try to do NC AGAIN??!!!! Everyone will think you are a nut case!!! ....well....I sorta am at this point and staying with the OM would only make that worse!!!

the final breaking point came when, after crying myself to sleep night after night because of my stupidity and the feelings of hopelessness, I decided to read a little before bed to keep my mind busy. Don't ask me why, but I picked up this book about helping children thru divorce and the introduction was ALL about the lies that people believe about how children will be "fine", etc. Basically, the book was exposing what I already knew deep in my heart...
My children will not be "FINE"!!!!!!! What I have done to them and my H is not FINE!!!!!! My "happiness" (this is happy????!!!) is NOT more important (or mutually exclusive) than my H and my children!!!!!!!! LIES< LIES< LIES!!!!!!!

SO....

here I am. NC take 2. I had already cut job ties so that isn't an issue. The OM is out of town on business until Friday so I have until then to decide where I am going to be when he gets back so he cannot just 'stop by' and find me here. (He knows about the NC and my desire to restore my marriage and family)
I can still go to my brother and sis-in-laws. I am just trying to decide if that is the best option.

and for those of you who wanted to know:
the OM is no longer married but was for 16 years. He has only had 2 serious relationships in his life....me in Highschool and then his wife whom he dated just after me and then married. He has only been with the 2 of us sexually. He was in a VERY ultra orthodox Jewish lifestyle (he was a Rabbi for most of those years) until he decided that he had had enough of the ever increasing rules/requirements and stopped following some of them. He trimmed his beard and stopped wearing all the required clothing. At that point, his wife asked him to leave b/c he was not religious enough. I know this is true because she told me herself. She is currently being set up by her community to marry a very religious man. (that is the way they do things there)
When they split up, she was pregnant with their 5th son. Yes....I know....horrible. At this point is where he started emailing me and the rest is history....awful history.

Enough about him. He is NOT a victim. Even in spite of the religious differences, he was NOT an attentive husband to her and I can see now NOT the most attentive father...too wrapped up in his own wants for that.
just like me.
but NO more.

>speechless<

This ~~~> S11 and D4


just makes me shake my head
and feel sad
and feel a little anger toward you
and lots of pity

but, it's none of my business
so I am just releasing my anger to the wind and I wish your children the best under these circumstances

Have you told your husband everything? Does he want to reconcile anymore? Does he post here or read your posts?

I understand Pepperband....I actually feel the same way about me...but maybe a lot more anger.
How could a MOM do this to her children????? I ask myself this question about a hundred times a day. I have no answer that is acceptable.

What does this mean anyway?

"Acceptable" is not the same a "factual".

Look for the factual answer.

Oh yes....my husband knows absolutely everything.
and despite it all, last night when I took my son back to the house he (unprovoked by me at all) indicated that he IS open to reconcilliation IF I get my act together. We have not lived together for over a year and our divorce is almost final. Our lives are very separate at this point.

There IS hope.
I do not deserve such a man.

and OM is a schmuck !
He's got 5 KIDS

forgot to answer if he posts or reads my posts..

I have told him about MB many times....he has never told me if he posts here or reads anything on the site.

That makes S E V E N little broken hearted children who's lives have been altered, perhaps irrevokably, by two people thinking "I deserve to be happy".

Damn

i_n,

I want to hug you and slap you at the same time.

Please stop talking to these toxic friends of yours. These are not quality people that need to be in your life PERIOD!!! They are are equally as messed up as POSOM.

POSOM used to be a Rabbi? WOW! **shaking head**

I know
I have no words.

Here are some words for you: "I am sorry. I apologize. I am guilty of hurting you."


Start apologizing:
To your kids
To OM's XW and her children
To your parents
To your rabbi
To your friends

If you are sincere in your remorse and truly want to work on your marriage, is your husband willing to let you move back to his home? What is your plan to help him heal? What are you willing to change?

and finally

to your children's father
the man you married
the man you pledged yourself to before God - to honor and love above all others

If POSOM keeps coming around, file a restraining order for harrassment. If you are serious about not going down this road to hell, do it.

Yes you are right.
I have been to most of these people....I am working on a letter to OMXM and children.

oh......believe me....this I have first and foremost been working on!

In Shreds, I'm rooting for your marriage. Don't drop me.

Revise what NC means.

I think it is too early for him to feel comfortable enough to consider that. But if I show him that I am sincere with my actions, I think this would be a natural step we would get to. My plan is to do whatever is necessary....right now it is having NC. After that, I will do anything and change anything that is necessary.

do you mean review what it means or revise what it means?

What NC means to me is new phone #, new email, erasing all contact means to/from him, staying away from any mutual friends we have, coaching all those necessary to NOT inform me of any contact he has made with them or tried to make with me.
Moving if I have to....(though my hope would be to be able to move home with H and kids when appropriate)

good input...noted!

I just read your whole thread and your slipped NC makes me feel sick to my stomach.

You need to move...a restraining order won't be good enough because POSOM will just send his friends over to see you.

Your resolve at NC is not strong enough, you are weak and foggy and moving is a MUST.

Find another apartment and just move. NOW. Do not leave a forwarding address. Do you have an accountable friend you can move in with?

I see your point about moving....
I will consider that.
My Mom and I have talked about that and both of our concern is that since I have had the apartment (rather than living with friends like I was...I have been here since November) my children have done SO much better. especially my son...
I am afraid that moving again will "pull the rug" out from underneath them again. If I can be strong and hold fast to NC while I am here, I think that is the best way to go.
If I truly am committed to NC, do you think this could be OK???

No, I don't...you have broken NC a few times already, the addiction is strong.

Can you temporarily move in with your parents? They would be good for accountability and it would be good for your children to be around family.

Moving again might be hard on your children, but a D would be much harder, and with how many times you have already broken NC, D is right around the corner.

Move.

Once you move, you will SEE what a no-brainer it was and you will wonder why you even questioned this advice.

The sooner you do it, the sooner you can move with on with your personal recovery and eventually possible M recovery.

Listen, we moved out of state and the OW did not even live in our LAST state (we were in CA, she was in AZ)...this was something my FWH felt strongly about and it was HIS idea...he wanted to take NO CHANCES that OW would try to contact us, so we "disappeared".

This is what you need to do.

Ok...you definitely have my attention...you have walked this road. I am pondering this and trying to figure out what I will do.

I need help processing thru some of this...so please know I am not trying to throw up obstacles b/c I don't want to do it....I just need to get my mind wrapped around it logistically.

I have no place to go that doesn't cost money...I have asked (less than 3 weeks ago) my Mom (married to my step dad who is very against the idea) and the few friends I have left. I have a lease here for 12 months and still have 6 months left that I am financially obligated to.
some of this may take care of itself as I have quit 1 job b/c of contact with him and now I will probably have to quit my other part time job b/c he knows where I will be on those days and could easily show up there. This leaves me with NO income and probably unable to pay the rent anyway....

I know that people are hesitant to help b/c I have done the back and forth so many times. they are all waiting to see if I am serious or not. If some time passes and they see that I mean business, I will probably have help offered from EVERY side.

Every time I have tried to get away I have made big big changes ie quitting jobs, changing my phone number, etc, etc and then gone back. I'm the little boy who cried "wolf"!!! Few believe me anymore and I don't blame them a bit. I don't even know that I believe me yet. But I don't want to go back....I'll just feel better when a week has passed with NC!!!

I feel like I am in a catch 22!!!

Just so you all know, I am not having ANY thoughts of going back or contacting the OM. I am in a state of relief right now. But I know the harder days and hours are coming where I will be greatly tempted....and I know that you are all just saying to me...

BE PREPARED THIS TIME!!! DO WHATEVER YOU HAVE TO IN ORDER TO MAINTAIN NC!!! And in my case, I see that I must pull out all the stops. But I really need some help figuring out what all the stops are and logistically how to make that happen.

I am pulling for you. I am not advanced enough to give advice, but believe me the people here know what they are talking about. They've been there done that have several t-shirts. Please listen to them.

If you move, make sure you don't do stuff like get a land line that is listed in the phone book or give your address to a friend of a friend of toxic friend's. Does your STBXH still reside in the marital home?

How about your brother and SIL? Weren't they willing to help you if you kept NC?

For sure, Black Raven! Agreed!

Yes...he does still live in the marital home.

Yes...but they live 8 hours away. It is OK for a few days but not for a long term solution. Were you just thinking a few days?

ok

Thought maybe if he rented he'd perhaps be willing to get a fresh start in a new place and then you could move to the same area.

Until you are moved, I'd still get the restraining order. Maybe this in un-MB like but is there something about OM that he wouldn't want others to know that you could expose so he wouldn't want to come around you anymore?

See if you can sub-lease your apt. in order to get out of the lease.

Keep brainstorming and see what your other options are. What about looking into just a ROOM to rent rather than a whole apartment? That should cut your costs by quite a lot. It might not be the best solution long-term, but right now you just need to get through the here and now and do WHATEVER it takes to avoid contact.

APs often do not let go easily and you have already experienced that. Don't take anymore chances...you need to move.

I didn't realize it was quite so far. But yes, I would take that as a short term solution especially if you have no job anyway. Be honest with your husband about WHY you are doing this (to maintain NC) and he will be understanding about the child care arrangments...I bet.

I agree that you have to move. I think family would be best because it is harder to cover secret meetings and succumb to temptation. Are you working towards spending 15 hours + with your husband each week? Is he willing?

I have gotten 2 different thoughts on this subject so now i am a little confused...

since my husband and I have been separated and living separate lives for over a year and our divorce is almost final, I had been advised to wait until the withdrawal was mostly over before working on things with my husband. If you'll refer to the beginning of my thread, I had been advised that it was extremely selfish to do otherwise (I can see their point).

but then there are those who refer to spending 15+ hours together, working on MB material together, etc. and it sounds like they are saying that my husband and I should be communicating about all of this stuff NOW.

What I have been thinking is that I should be doing this on my own for right now and then after I have some history AWAY from the OM and at least some of the withdrawal behind me, that would be the time to start working on the marriage....if he is still willing at that point. I think my H would prefer that right now. He wants reconciliation most of the time but I'm sure all you BS can understand the fear that he has at opening back up at all to me.

What do you think the Harley's would say for us??? Has anyone been in our situation?

BUT if my husband and I SHOULD be working thru this together then that is what I would want to be doing if he is willing.

I think that if there is NC and there stays NC, then you should embrace the recovery process and you should spend as much time with your husband and children that you can. Withdrawal can take months. I wouldn't want my WS to stay away to protect me and go through withdrawal alone and vulnerable to temptation. It would mean more to me that he is present and actively pursuing a life and love with me. I also think that the sooner you both build your lovebanks for each other the easier, and quicker your withdrawal period will be. I am no expert on this but that is my opinion.

I HATE withdrawal!! I HATE what I have done in the last year!!! I HATE this MESS I have made!!!
I just spent about 1/2 hour ranting like a mad woman about the CRAZY emotions and thoughts I was having....I was feeling so incredibly hopeless that I just wanted to die. Truly. Insanity. And I am on the WS side!! I can only imagine what so many of YOU BSs have suffered.

After my time with my dear friend (who has led me through much healing ministry with the Lord...I wouldn't be here today if it were not for her constant love and prayers) on the phone, I got my head on straight again and was able to focus on the Truth.
She recommended that I read Psalm 32 again...haven't read it in ages. Very very good Psalm for those who have had "hidden" things in their lives. It will eat you alive on the inside if you do not live with Integrity. That is what integrity means....having your insides match your outsides. I long for the day when I can say that is how I live again.

Early day tomorrow....must sleep to be strong for another day of NC.

On a brighter note, my H and I are attending a parenting seminar at church together on Saturday. At his invitation. I am nervous b/c I haven't been there for a long time (as you might imagine) BUT I am excited about being there with H.

LOL! I guess anything that makes it work!

This sounds like very good news to me.

I am not sure what to tell you about spending time together vs. getting through withdrawal...withdrawal can take a long time, and my guess is that it will be worse without the sidetracking of trying to work on your M. [My H never went through withdrawal that I could see, and he still claims that he never felt it...he was glad to be done with the A and the OW, so I am no expert on this.]

Can you make an appt. with Steve Harley and ask his advice on this? Click on "Coaching Center" at the top of this page. It's worth the cost, he can help you get started on recovering your M and then you can come back here, tell us what he said, and we will guide you on the steps he suggests.

He's helped us tremendously. But you should read the books first, at least SAA, HNHN and LB.

Damn shreds, you slept with the OM again? Not very encouraging. So you start NC over again. And still want to reconcile. You love the OM, and you LYHBYANILWH. So because you read a book about how damaging divorce is to kids, you are now completely sold out to reconciliation. I was 5 years old when my mom divorced my father for another man. I have been married for 29 years this Sunday. Your kids are use to the way things are. They have adjusted. Now you're going to try to go back to a marriage that leaves you emotionally dissatisfied. Why? The die is cast with your kids. Lets say you go back and are able to white knuckle it for a couple of years. But you are unhappy. And the OM comes back? You are torturing yourself, your husband, the OM and, your kids.

Triage!

This one has a black tag on it.

You are so full of the importance of your feelings. It’s not so dang confusing at all, actually. It’s simple. For you, feelings trump all.

Despite your protestations, your angst, you choose your feelings over your ethics at every opportunity. Probably always have.

You consistently choose your feelings even over the welfare of your family, your very children.

Bottom line: you fail the test.

How many make-up exams do you deserve?

How many more pieces of your children’s and BH’s heart do you need?

You probably plan to continue lying and keep all these failures of yours from him too, right? For his own good, yes? But in the end it will be because even he does not want to know who you really are any longer. I think even you know that now.

My only advice to you: You need to grow up.

I agree ... DOA!!!

IS,

You have been seperated for a year ... the divorce is almost final ... I think you've hurt your BH enough ... allow the divorce to proceed and let this guy get on with his life.

Now, if you've truly learned anything from this ... good for you ... maybe you won't make the same mistakes again in the future in your next relationship ... although if I were betting, I'd bet on you going back to OM.

Is this a test?? A joke?? You sound like the sick, twisted people I referred to a few posts back!

What is LYHBYANILWH???

No...it wasn't just in reading that book...the page just highlighted and supported what was already going on in my heart and head. My kids haven't adjusted.
I didn't realize that I WAS emotionally dissatisfied when I had the affair. I know he was too!! He just escaped with painkillers (had a serious addiciton to them for about 2 years and had to go to rehad). So neither one of us EVER got the chance to understand EN or try to meet the others' EN.
If my husband is WILLING to #1 take me back #2 explore the MB stuff with me...then do you still think this is dead and forget about it???

I have NOT been "happy" since I have been away from my family.

My H and children have not been "happy" since I betrayed them.

I have never believed in that "happiness" crap even deep deep in the fog. I know better. Happiness is a choice that you make and I think it is supported by knowing that you have done the right thing...not JUST for yourself but for others that you love as well.

Do you STILL think this is a waste of time??

Still waiting for an answer here i_s.

not that I can think of....

No, but you are making mistakes that we WARNED you about.

Have you looked into moving yet? Looked into the restraining order?

You SOUND serious about avoiding C but then you do it anyways! Don't play games with us; we will help you if you want it, but you have to help YOURSELF before we can really help you.

YOU MUST STAY IN NC FOR THIS TO WORK. Everytime you have C again you set yourself and your goals WAY back. And time is ticking away...your D is almost final!!

Remember that you are an ADDICT...you are ADDICTED to the FEELINGS you get from the OM, nothing more. You CAN get these feelings from your H again, but first you must get through withdrawal and get SERIOUS about staying "sober" and away from the CRACK.

Got it??? Let us know when you are serious. So far with these slip-ups it doesn't seem like you are.

I HAVEN'T had contact since I updated this thread!! I was only trying to be honest and upfront with what I was feeling (knowing that feelings are only temporary and they can't be trusted!!!) so that I could get through it. There is NO way NOT to go through withdrawal...and there is NO way not to have those feelings....do you just want me to pretent I am not having them??? I KNOW I am an addict and I KNOW all of what you said!! I KNOW I can get these feelings from my H again!!!
Why do you think I can even want or be in NC?? I couldn't if I didn't believe this stuff! Who would want to go through that without belief that things can be different than they are today.

Yes, I am looking at moving. They will not let me sublease my apartment. I am trying to figure out what my other options are. I have a plan for the weekend between family and friends and the parenting workshop to stay busy and gone. Beyond that I haven't figured out yet. Going to Minnesota for another week is an option.

I am also supposed to hear back about a Christian based program in Fla for sexual addiction today. That would be a 30 day program. Cannot fathom being away from my children for that long...but the long term effects of not finding out what pain is driving this addiction is more risky to them and everyone I love.

I'm not ouchthathurt, but what I "think" is that you are still "all about you".

You are trying NOW, because you are facing the very real possibility of losing your BH for good ... you won't seriously give up OM ... so you're still very much in "cake eater" mode. All about YOU ... having your cake and getting to eat it too.

You have done NOTHING that has been advised ... you are in a holding pattern trying to keep all of the balls in the air ... unwilling to step outside of your comfort zone and actually do something meaningful.

How exactly do I have my cake? i don't have the OM and I don't have my husband. and I may never get my H back....that is a possibility.

what have I NOT done? I can't make it all happen overnight....I wish I could. I feel like I am trying to run and my legs won't move fast enough.

Maybe you all are right...

I don't have time to go back and read everything, but I do know that you started this thread, stated you were going into NC and then WENT BACK ON YOUR WORD.

Withdrawal isn't that hard when you stop focusing on FEELINGS. Think about this LOGICALLY...there is nothing "to" your relationsh*t with OM, it's all a big giant FANTASY.

He is a joke...who bangs a married woman and encourages her to leave her FAMILY??? Is this really a quality person you want to end up with???

If the answer is NO then get over it...quit fantasizing about his "good qualities"...they are a farse anyways and deep down you should know that by now.

He is scum and that's obvious. A "good person" does not encourage others to leave their spouse and their children...a "good person" does not down-play a D and the effect it will have on you or your children.

A good, moral person encourages people to work out their M AT ALL COSTS (not abuse, obviously, but that isn't what we are talking about here). SELFISH people encourage D...OM doesn't care about YOU or YOUR CHILDREN...he only cares about making HIMSELF happy. THat is what APs do...it's an inherent SELFISH quality that will not go away...it IS who they are.

Why don't you write out 10 things that you HATE about OM and post them here?

Then write out 10 things you LOVE and ADMIRE about your H and post them here?

The differences will be glaringly obvious and maybe that will help you through withdrawal.

In all honesty, my assessment, as a total stranger, is this:

You no longer love your husband.
You desire to love him (maybe, sort-of) but you don't love him currently. You wish you loved your husband, but you don't.

It is difficult to deposit love units in situations like yours - and it is IMPOSSIBLE while you are still in contact with the nasty OM.

That's my brief opinion about this.

I agree with Pep, but DESIRE to love your H and fix your family is a step in the right direction.

You will feel better about yourself and your life when you begin DOING THE RIGHT THING.

That begins with NC.

This rings very very true with me. I WANT to love my husband again. I see what you mean about the love units and being in contact the the nasty OM.

There is a tell in here. Two, actually.

“I didn’t realize that I was emotionally dissatisfied when I had the affair.”

What does this mean? When you started the adultery? During the whole of your marriage?

In general, for most normal people, emotional dissatisfaction = unhappy, right? So, you were pretty much always unhappily married to a useless H who had more problems than you could ever even want to try to deal with. Right. True or not you are saying that’s what it was to you. Now. You didn’t know it then, though.

So, you were unhappy and didn’t even know it.

LOL.

Fog and self deception.


“I have NOT been "happy" since I have been away from my family.” And, “I have never believed in that "happiness" crap even deep deep in the fog.”

I don’t think anyone here knows what this means either. You don’t believe in “that happiness crap” yet a lack of it drives you as if before a pack of demons with fiery whips.

And so you are not happy with your OM too, and never have been.

Not happy here. Not happy there. Not happy anywhere.

What will ever be different?

Does it ever occur to you your lack of happiness has a lot more to do with you than it does with your H or your OM?

No one can “make you happy”. You have to do that for yourself. True happiness, the kind you can take to the bank, the kind of joy you take with you when you go, is independent of your external and even intimate relationships.

Personally, I don’t think you have SA. I think you have LA. Not Sexual Addition, but Love Addiction. You are addicted to love, and it does not matter who the object of your affections, as shallow as they are, is.

Could be a tortoise for all it really matters.

You have been this way for so long now you are thoroughly addicted to the feelings themselves, and to all the drama you can create around you.

So, what do you propose doing about it? No one, no one at all here or there or anywhere can do anything about it for you. What are you going to do? (Preferably something done that does not hurt your family any more.)

Ok IS ... no you cannot do it all in one day ... no one suggested that... but you are dragging your feet re possible moving or taking other actions to keep OM away from you.

I am confused here

very simply

did you have contact with the OM since he turned up back a few weeks ago just before you went to Minn?

If yes ... when? What did YOU do?

If no please be very plain and say so.

If you are talking about your feelings please just say so as well it helps all giving advice to understand its a thought and not an action.

Remember I was a WW once too I know the addiction of the affair ... THAT IS WHY YOU MUST MOVE ( or the OM move)

because you are addicted to the OM and HE is addicted to you and HE has no interest in keeping NC .... HE is working on you breaking it over and over until HE gets his way. HE has had this work before ... HE is really only interested in HIS wants.

HE wants to keep bonking you ... that's the plain blunt fact.

Now ok I can understand this move may not be possible immediately but you also must understand that it means the OM can just waltz in when he feels like it and drag you back into the affair. YOU then have to start all over again and eventually you WILL give up. HE counts on that.

So you are in a lease... ok what about talking to the manager agent etc and proposed advertising for a tenant to take a new lease in place of yours subject to his approving the applicant of course..... think for solutions outside the box.

Have you investigated a RO of some kind? It may or may not be granted ... who knows??? .... yet you need to show yourself and your family you are SERIOUS. Are you?

IS radical surgery is required to have any chance of reconciling with your H pre or post D. Because when your H realises you have not committed EVERYTHING to getting rid of the OM sooner rather than later he is going to say go away don't darken my door step again.

IS you truly need to decide what you want... what you are prepared to do to get it. YOU ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME

If its your H then you know you need to follow MB maybe get Dr Harley involved ... if its not ... then be as cooperative as you can with your H and have as painless a D as can be worked out... though there will be pain for all even so.

What frustrates many of us here is that we can see you COULD do this if you really wanted to. :twobyfour:

And so you are not happy with your OM too, and never have been.

Not happy here. Not happy there. Not happy anywhere.

What will ever be different?

Does it ever occur to you your lack of happiness has a lot more to do with you than it does with your H or your OM?

No one can “make you happy”. You have to do that for yourself. True happiness, the kind you can take to the bank, the kind of joy you take with you when you go, is independent of your external and even intimate relationships.

Personally, I don’t think you have SA. I think you have LA. Not Sexual Addition, but Love Addiction. You are addicted to love, and it does not matter who the object of your affections, as shallow as they are, is.

Could be a tortoise for all it really matters.

You have been this way for so long now you are thoroughly addicted to the feelings themselves, and to all the drama you can create around you.

So, what do you propose doing about it? No one, no one at all here or there or anywhere can do anything about it for you. What are you going to do? (Preferably something done that does not hurt your family any more.)
[/quote]

I think you are correct. And yes, it has occurred to me many many times that it has a lot more to do with me than anyone else. But I never saw it like you described it. But you are right on target.

What to do about that??? I have absolutely NO clue.

sorry...the previous was a quote that I dropped the front quote off of!! sorry...

my response begins 2nd to the last line.

Whoa shreds. LYHBNILWH. Love your husband but not in love with him. So then because I agree with what your friends say. I am sick and twisted? No body is saying abandon your children (I know what that feels like too because of my dad). I was initially in support of you trying to reconcile, until you explained that your husband NEVER met your emotional needs and whats more basically confirmed that he wouldn't in the future either. So then an opinion is only of value to you, when it agrees with what you feel at the time. No problem. I can do that. You're right.

I repeat: grow up.

The following might not come out as clearly as I wish, but I'll give it the old college try. (I shudder at the lack of an editor)...


Simply grow up and find out who you are.

You might need to do this by yourself.

You don’t need to be happy to do this.

Joy is what you are really after. No one is promised happiness in this life. Although, we have been promised joy.

But so very few people attain joy. Or even try to attain it. It takes a lot of hard work. You have to earn joy. So many, most, want joy for the taking, for nothing. And so they get mere happiness instead.

You have to know who you are.

In the movie Moonstruck, the Olympia Dukakis character, the mother of the Cher character, is propositioned by some seek professor dude. She could have a nice little undiscovered affair if she wanted to. She says, “No, I know who I am.”

I thought that was a meaningless statement until I went through all this adultery crap. Now I think that line was written by a BS.

Now I see almost without exception, adulterers, and all their OP, never seem to know who they are. Without exception, they do not know themselves.

They all want happiness at other people’s expense; yet they strenuously claim it isn’t so. They do not know themselves and so they do not know what they are doing to others. They do not even know what they are doing to themselves.

Feelings lie. That’s what feelings are. Non-realities evolution created to drive your endocrine system for one purpose or another such as procreation, or fight or flight.

Feelings are not real, not bad feelings and not good feelings. They are simply there to drive you where you might not otherwise go for purely corporeal purposes.

Satisfying these drives makes you feel happy. Even when you are not. Even when you are harming yourself, and even when you are harming others.


So grow up and know yourself.

Try for joy.

EVERY FWS rewrites history this way and says this...i_s is no different. This changes nothing, it's a typical response from an active WW.

i_s...keep on with the plan we are outlining for you here...go into NC and STAY in NC. Give up your drug and your M CAN be fixed (husband willing)...but you MUST follow the steps.

I NEVER said he NEVER met my emotional needs. That is not true. AT the time the A started both he and I were in very withdrawn places...we had a TON of financial stress and we were just trying to survive...never spending any time together.
In the past, we HAD met each other's needs....but we hadn't been for a few years at the time of the A. This is no excuse for an affair!! I am just telling you the state of the M at the time. Instead of looking at things and trying to work on things with him, I "ran away" and had an affair.


You know, I KNOW that you have all been hurt beyond words....but many waywards are hurting too....and all I was trying to do was be honest and open...as much as I 'can'. I am very very flawed...and I am well aware of that.

I am trying to find hope here.

I_S,

You said This place will offer you guidance, but your actions are going to have to provide you the hope. You see to think that you must have hope before you do what is right. You have it backwards. YOu do what is right, and THEN you will have hope.

All the folks can do here is tell you from their perspective what is the right thing to do. It is your call as to what THE RIGHT THING TO DO really is. I think you know.

1. Stop the affair

2. NEVER and I mean NEVER contact OM again.

3. Once you have done those things, seek counseling.

4. Speak with your H, you two are still co-parents.

5. Work on your boundaries and your view of what good morals really mean, then live to the standards of those morals by protecting your boundaries.


I have no idea if there is a chance for you getting back with your H. You dumped him a year ago and from your most recent post you stated the marriage was not in good shape. Lots of financial stress, lots of loneliness. But, you seem to forget it was bad for him also, perhaps worse as I would bet he felt the financial issues really fell on his shoulders. You made it worse by abandoning him and running off with OM.

So will he take you back??? For sure not in your present situation: foggy, still thinking of OM first your family and H second and last. However, if you get through withdrawal and start focusing on who you are what type of person you represtent, there may well be hope. You will not know until you do the right thing, THEN there might be hope. It sure won't happen the other way.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

I recall that movie as a perfect way to address exposure.

Cher's mom called it out loud and proud against her WH.
I like her touch of asking him if he found anything wrong with her as his wife before she raises the subject of his infidelity.

Dang straight I say!!!

IS,

I will tell you that he has lied to you.

You are not #2 for him sexually. There has been another woman between you and his wife, and I would put money on this.

Why?

Because don't you find it VERY ODD that a man of religious quality leaves a pregnant wife for no apparent reason in the middle of her pregnancy?????

I would venture a bet there was another woman in the shadows. And that he lied to her about the OW - and that YOU are OW number TWO.

You just don't know it. And he would NEVER admit this to you, or to her.

This would certainly explain the sudden abandonment of his religious beliefs, his wife, his life, his family......

Doesn't this sound like an affair to you?

Someone just walking away from everything?


Isn't this familiar? Walking away, doing things COMPLETELY UNCHARACTERISTIC?????


Now, he hooks up with you. But he could never tell you that he has done this before, because that would be admitting his shame.


And that he would be the type of man who would probably do this to YOU.

And, by the way?????


HE WOULD BE THE TYPE OF MAN TO DO THIS TO YOU.

I KNOW THIS, BECAUSE HE DID IT TO HIS WIFE. And to your husband.

IS,

I've looked at the thread. Some thoughts for you:

1. You frequently talk about the "hold" the OM has on you. What I wonder about you and am burning to ask you is this: When and why did you decide to hand over control of your life to someone else? Because the way you describe this "feeeeeling", this OM can drive you to do just about anything - just by your merely thinking about him.

But that's not really true, is it? Reality is that YOU control your life.

Take control. Because in spite of what you have said about not blaming the OM, your posts do tend to complain about this "hold" he has on you - which is a way of casting the control to him and thus casting the blame that direction, too.

You are in control - and you are in the blame box, too. Completely blameworthy, yep.

2. Along the lines of control, your posts about "wondering" what to do about not seeing OM again, and whether or not to leave your apt, etc.

Leave. That's a no-brainer, isn't it?????

Seriously - you seem to know OM will come there. Just do not be there. Stay with a friend for awhile - or, you could have a friend stay with you and have that friend be the one to answer the door. Park your car elsewhere, or trade cars with a friend for a couple of weeks. Stay with relatives, or borrow their cars. There are solutions, but your posts seem to say "I choose not to solve this".

3. One of the themes you carry here is that your BH would not want to know what you are doing.

I call BS on that (and not Betrayed Spouse). I would say that you might want to give your BH a chance to SEE your actions and be apprised of what you are doing.

That is, if you REALLY DO WANT TO SAVE THE MARRIAGE.

I say this because a person who wants to fix something - does the work and demonstrates the effort. In the case of fixing a marriage, that would reasonably involve the spouse, and he would have to know what you are doing. So while he might not want to hear the OM's name, and know the details of your interactions with that pile of dung, he might want to know

YOUR PLAN
YOUR ACTIONS
YOUR WHEREABOUTS
YOUR PROGRESS
YOUR CHANGES
YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT BH
YOUR PROGRESS IN LEARNING ABOUT HOW AFFAIRS DAMAGE MARRIAGES
YOUR LEARNING ABOUT HOW A BS IS HURT BY AN AFFAIR
WHAT YOU ARE READING
ETC.

and the details of what you have done to cut off the affair - like changing your cell number, changing cars, living somewhere else, not talking to dung-man (sorry, don't get me wrong, but I am almost positive your husband has a name for him that is kind of close to that), and that you are determined to do this for the sake of him first, and the family as well.

And that you want to be a woman of integrity again - whether or not the marriage is recovered, and that you recognize that it is NOT POSSIBLE to do that if you stay with OM.


Because, IS, your husband really does want to know this.

4. Somewhere in here, you need to figure out that an apology is needed.

And whether you believe it or not, a written apology to your husband might go quite far in the healing process - for both of you. You might just find as you sit down to do the writing, that you actually tune in to the truth of the pain you have caused your BH. The remorse, guilt, regret, and shame may take on a light that has not been there before. This letter could be a catalyst for YOU that brings home the "withdrawal" you seek.

Because when you put this stuff on paper you will likely be overwhelmed with the gravity and REALITY of it.

And trust me - you will NOT have memory gaps at that point, IS. You will WISH YOU DID.

Write the letter anyway.

And whatever you do - do NOT mention one single thing in this letter about what your HUSBAND could have or should have done better. And don't mention the OM at all. Because THIS one time - own it ALL.

Every cotton-picking bit of stench.

It will be the single most releasing thing you have ever done.

For yourself.

Before you send it, post it here. This will be a difficult process, but in the end, your husband just might find what he needs for healing. And so might you - in more ways than one.

SB